Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Let there be snark.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

A consequence of cucumbers

If West Virginia and San Francisco had a love child.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / IANAL: Hold my beer edition

IANAL: Hold my beer edition

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I am not a lawyer but is this as dumb as trying to ford the Amazon during flood season with an open wound or dumber than that?

Lawyers — what is the dumbest thing that you can reveal without breaking confidentiality/ethics rules that a client has ever done against your advice?

Open thread

Reader Interactions

88Comments

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    “Dear Robert Mueller, There are too many indictments. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.”
    /Gates

  3. 3.

    Annie

    It’s almost as dumb as Paul Manafort trying to stiff the Russian oligarchs who had loaned him money. Lying to Mueller gets you indicted; stiffing a Russian oligarch might get you killed.

  4. 4.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the poster who says he had a high profile client confess to obstruction of justice on national television, then publicly told prosecutors they’d better not examine his business records? That poster is Ty Cobb. And the post is coming from INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE!

  5. 5.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    Isn’t that sort of like flipping off The Incredible Hulk while he’s staring at you in bottled rage?

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    These guys are so damn stupid.

    Mueller has the IC working with him, and Mueller’s job is to find a way to make what the IC knows into something that can be used in open court. So he has more information than he needs, or can use, to put these people away, and they’re blind to this.

    So, yeah, they lie at a proffer session!

    Idiots.

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    If these are the best people Twitler could hire during his campaign, the ones working for him in 2020 will be dumber than…I can’t think of anything dumb enough.

  10. 10.

    StringOnAStick

    Fellow Jackals, he’s an idea I put into practice today: make out postcards to your R reps using ideas and pithy sayings gleaned from our comments. For example I used the quote from the FL high school survivor that “they should change the name of the AR-15 to Marco Rubio since he can be bought so cheaply”, but I told Cory Gardner that I would replace Rubio’s name with his. You know, fun/harassment/you’ll-be-out-of-a-job-next-election kind of stuff. I made 14 cards today!

  15. 15.

    Amir Khalid

    Is there some kind of brains exclusion zone around Trump that makes people close to him do stupid or self-destructive things?

  17. 17.

    No Drought No More

    Gates lying to Mueller Inc. was either hubris, or, as I suspect, a last ditch attempt by a cornered man to avoid confessing his treason, if only to the child whose soccer practice he cares so much about.

  18. 18.

    Jeffro

    @StringOnAStick: that is an EXCELLENT (mostly, because it’s fun!) suggestion! And now I know what to do with all these extra postcards we’ve bought over the years! =)

  19. 19.

    VeniceRiley

    And an hour ago, NBC reporting a NEW new Grand Jury superseding indictment on Manafort. 2012-2013 involving a secret group of Euro POLS and 2 million Euros and all for them to pimp for russkies in Ukraine.

    Looks like someone in house of Mueller is keeping track of 5 year expiry on charging? Is that what’s happening here?

    Or is he just putting the thumbscrews to Mr. manafort?

  20. 20.

    ARoomWithAMoose

    @BGinCHI: Trump won’t pardon anyone until there’s something he can personally get out of that deal that costs the other dearly and leaves them humiliated. Even if council tells him to ignore the personal benefit and explains why. Only losers do stuff for free.

  22. 22.

    jl

    @BGinCHI:

    ” How certain are they Trump is going to pardon them? ”
    A BJ commenter suggested yesterday that front loading the charges on some of these crooks with all the really outrageous and knowingly corrupt super high dollar financial crimes will make pardons more difficult, either they won’t happen or be politically suicidal.
    That sounds good to me.

  24. 24.

    sukabi

    @schrodingers_cat: the entire R party doesn’t contain 1 brain cell or one good person…no, they aren’t bringing their best.

    CNBC reported Friday that the RNC is paying $37,000 a month to rent office space in the flagship Trump Tower in Manhattan.

    In addition to the hefty rent fees, the committee also pays a high monthly salary to Vice President Mike Pence’s nephew John. The younger Pence appears to make $12,000 a month working for the Trump campaign per CNBC’s analysis of tax withholding information.

  28. 28.

    Yarrow

    @StringOnAStick:

    Fellow Jackals, he’s an idea I put into practice today: make out postcards to your R reps using ideas and pithy sayings gleaned from our comments.

    Did one of them say, “Tick tock, motherfucker?”

  31. 31.

    JPL

    Gates pleads guilty today
    According to the Washington Post because of new information Jared will not receive a security clearance
    Mueller files a superseding indictment charging Mueller with wiring money to European politicians to lobby in the US>

    What am I missing?

  34. 34.

    Bobby Thomson

    Apparently it’s not unusual for “cooperating” witnesses to lie in the early going or to be loved by anyone. His lawyers quit the same day, likely because they knew he lied.

  35. 35.

    WaterGirl

    @BGinCHI: I’m pretty sure Gates might have believed that at one time, but he has now seen the light. Manafort, however… I would bet good money that he believes he will be pardoned.

  37. 37.

    LAO

    Not technically against my advice but the craziest thing a defendant did in my presence.

    Once, I was covering a proffer session for another lawyer. It was the fourth and final proffer, the government was prepared to offer the defendant a cooperation agreement, they just had a couple of questions for him. I was brought in to do the paper and deal with legal issues so I had spoken to the defendant on several occasions and was very familiar with the case. I prepped the defendant the day before the proffer.

    I’m sitting in the room an AUSA, 2 DEA agents and an FBI agent waiting for the defendant to be produced. Everyone is relaxed, we’re all joking and the defendant walks in. He announced, I need to be straight with you …and proceeds to explain (1) he lied in the previous proffers and (2) admitted to being a fairly major heroin middleman. He was unstoppable. When I asked the government to leave the room and give me a moment with the defendant, he turned to me and say “fuck you lady”.

    I still laugh about that.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: I am googling and can’t find anything like that. All I find is that Trump said Kelly will get to decide what to do about Jared’s clearance, and I saw that it said SOME of the people who can’t get a clearance will be let go. I would love to read what you saw.

  43. 43.

    Bill Arnold

    @BruceJ:

    or a polonium Apertif.

    I’ve been assuming that the polonium tea was a one-shot since two would be harder for Russia to deny.
    Thinking they’d use something either more exotic, or plain and mundane (“heart attack with concurrent head trauma”), next time.
    Not looking forward to more exotic – the polonium-210 tea, with trillions of tiny suicide bombers going off randomly in the victim’s cells over a few days, was plenty bad enough. Fervently wish they (and everyone) would not continue significantly further down those very dark paths. ([dramatic voice] I have heard tales, seen things. :-) Yada yada yada. :-) )

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gravenstone: It was the first movie where the CGI of the Hulk didn’t take you out of the movie. And this scene, as well as the one where he punches Thor are just straight out of the comics.

  47. 47.

    Steeplejack

    @sukabi:

    And, per the news yesterday, the RNC also is paying Trump’s former body man Keith Schiller $15,000 a month for security onsulting.

  48. 48.

    la caterina

    Dumbest thing ever done by a client (Plaintiff in race-based employment discrimination case), at client’s deposition:

    Q: What is your race?

    A: The human race

  50. 50.

    Chip Daniels

    I don’t see any upside for Trump in pardoning anybody but Jared and his kids.
    Once pardoned they can be forced to squeal on Trump without repercussion, and that is the one thing he fears most.

  51. 51.

    House

    I hope Mueller’s got a suicide watch on this SOB cause I really want to see him testify before turning him over to the tender mercies of our prison system.

  53. 53.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:
    Yes, yes there is.
    It’s called the drumpf zone. Everyone who enters the zone willingly is immediately transformed into a zombie. You can’t say they are transformed into a moron, they were that already for willingly wanting to be anywhere around him for any reason what so ever.

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    @schrodingers_cat:

    All my Congress critters are the on right side. What should I do?

    Mine, too, and sure to stay that way.
    I feel like I’m looking down at a bad traffic accident from a 1enth floor window.

  56. 56.

    Chip Daniels

    So I’m thinking ahead to 2021, and Trump starring in a reality show once again:

    “Trumped- Prison Lockup!”

    Each episode features a group of his campaign or WH staff doing time, and forced to compete in a Hunger Games style fight to the death for an extra ration of pudding.

  59. 59.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: Anne has a post up about the Washington Post article. The president as part of his powers can grant Jared a clearance but today mentioned that it would be up to Kelly.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/top-justice-dept-official-alerted-white-house-2-weeks-ago-to-ongoing-issues-in-kushners-security-clearance/2018/02/23/aa9b37c8-17f4-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_kushnercall-545pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ac4a818ca708

  61. 61.

    No Drought No More

    Talk about a blast from the past. TPM claims Vin Weber is the lobbyist in question at that meeting a few weeks ago in which Gates lied to Mueller Inc. We’re entering Van Lingle Mungo territory..

  63. 63.

    dp

    My favorite idiot client story: I represented a truck driver who got rear-ended by an Army recruiter. This was the kind of person of whom it is said that he’d rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stay on the ground and tell the truth. He forfeited his worker’s comp claim by making really stupid lies (he claimed an inability to carry a loaf of bread, fergawdsakes). So we were then left with the Federal Tort Claims Act case in federal court. The morning of trial, I read him the riot act: You’re in front of a federal judge, if they think you’re lying they’ll sic the FBI on you and you’ll be doing time in Leavenworth or something. Scared the hell out of him. Put him on on direct, he didn’t exaggerate anything, answered all the questions honestly. I was proud of him.

    First question on cross from the assistant U.S. attorney: “Are you under the influence of any substances this morning?” Answer: “I smoked a little weed earlier.”

    Remarkably, we didn’t win.

  64. 64.

    Skepticat

    @efgoldman: I’d write them thank-you notes, as I do when my one terrific senator and my one wonderful rep do their jobs, as they usually do without anyone bludgeoning them. (“My” other senator is Susan Collins, and I’ve given up contacting her.) Positive reinforcement seems to me to be a good approach.

  67. 67.

    Chet Murthy

    @WaterGirl: Can I just say, they’re right when the say _The Wire_ is Tolstoy-an in its grandeur. Simon did an -amazing- job. Just amazing.

  68. 68.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Chet Murthy: 100% agree. I’d also say Shakespearean in its sense of drama and its insight into the human condition (as well as the quality of its language), and it displays a journalist’s eye for detail (unsurprising given Simon’s background) and a sociologist’s insight into the broader picture. The only contemporary work I’d even consider comparing to it is Moonlight, though they differ in some ways. Regardless, they are each my favourite works in their respective media, and for similar reasons (almost everything I said about The Wire is also true of Moonlight).

    (Full disclosure: I went to school with one of Moonlight’s producers.)

  71. 71.

    PRW

    @Chip Daniels:
    step 1: Trump pardons Manafort or whoever
    step 2: pardonee ‘testifies’ to a bunch of malarkey that exonerates Trump
    step 3: Trump pardons pardonee again for perjury

  72. 72.

    RedDirtGirl

    @Amir Khalid: How about
    Trumpsubstantiation: The mystical conversion of a human being into an ambulatory pile of feces lacking all dignity, honor, patriotism or worth upon association with Donald J. Trump, with only the appearance of an independent person still remaining?

  73. 73.

    StringOnAStick

    @Yarrow: Close. I included several comments that he’ll be a one term senator. My post cards are blank so I “decorate” that side with comments too!

  74. 74.

    Steve in the ATL

    Appointed criminal case. Prosecutor invites us to view security camera video. I tell my client, the accused thief, not to open his mouth under any circumstance. As soon as the prosecutor starts the video, client exclaims “hey that’s me!”

  76. 76.

    Ken

    @Bill Arnold:

    Thinking they’d use something either more exotic, or plain and mundane (“heart attack with concurrent head trauma”), next time.

    Maybe one from Blackadder, like “fell backward onto the spire of Norwich Cathedral,” or accidentally brutally cut his head off while coming his hair.”

  78. 78.

    StringOnAStick

    If all your reps are D’s then send some supportive postcards to help counter the negative stuff they get from the rwnj’s. I sent a few supportive ones to my D rep and senator but most today were nastygrams for Gardner. I’m into taunting at this point. I know he’ll never see them but the larval wingnuts who work in his offices need some in your face truth. Maybe once the indictment train hits the R party hard a few baby wingnuts might have an epiphany. Happy to help!

    Is anyone in the Denver area interested in a postcard party at some neutral location?

  79. 79.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Miss Bianca: I facepalmed when deposing a longshoreman.

    Was anyone else present who might have witnessed the alleged incident?

    Well, Shorty was right there.

    What is his real name?

    I don’t rightly know.

    Can you describe him?

    Well, he’s real short!

    Probably a “you had to be there” moment.

  83. 83.

    JGabriel

    @Mary G:

    If these are the best people Twitler could hire during his campaign, the ones working for him in 2020 will be dumber than…I can’t think of anything dumb enough.

    Anyone working for Trump in 2020 will be wearing an orange jumpsuit – just like the one Trump’ll be wearing.

  84. 84.

    JGabriel

    @Amir Khalid:

    Is there some kind of brains exclusion zone around Trump that makes people close to him do stupid or self-destructive things?

    It’s self-selection. Anyone dumb enough to want to work for or get close to Traitor Donald, is someone who is inherently self-destructive – whether through stupidity or a death wish.

  85. 85.

    Ramalama

    @WaterGirl: Just know that the Wire starts off really brutally. And you need to get through the first couple episodes to get into it. Or at least that’s how I did it. My partner could not get through the 1st episode, it was that grim, but I stuck to it. Either that or the 1st couple episodes put me through the wringer so that I could get through the rest. The characters, plot, dialogue — all of these are brilliant and compelling. But you’re looking at some heartbreakers.

  86. 86.

    MattF

    You just have to bear in mind that these people were either hired by Donald Trump, or hired by someone who was hired by Donald Trump. QED.

  87. 87.

    WaterGirl

    @Ramalama: Way late to the thread, but just in case you see this…

    Thanks for the warning. Now at least I’ll know that if the first two episodes are too brutal for me, that I shouldn’t assume that the whole series will be that way.

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