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You are here: Home / Politics / America / Breaking News: The Democratic Minority Of The House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence Report Has Been Released

Breaking News: The Democratic Minority Of The House Permanent Select Committee On Intelligence Report Has Been Released

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You can find the report here. Or at the bottom of the post for download. It has suitable redactions. It is important to remember two things:

  1. The reports author is Congressman Schiff, the ranking member on the committee. And he actually read the underlying classified materials that the Nunes memo is supposedly based on.
  2. This minority report, even with the redactions, demolishes the arguments being made by Congressman Nunes, the House GOP Caucus, the administration, and their supporters.

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Open thread!

Reader Interactions

299Comments

  1. 1.

    Adam L Silverman

    I’m off to the gym, I’ll check back in later. Try not to declassify anything important while I’m gone!

  2. 2.

    japa21

    Yet Nunes is happy to see it out there saying it shows how accurate his memo was and that it shows collusion between the Democrats and government agencies. He also said that the DOJ and FBI needed to have the Democrats correct errors. This, of course is not true. They just said some things needed to be redacted.

  5. 5.

    mad citizen

    Looking forward to the thread–so this Friday news dump is at 5 eastern on a Saturday. I’m making Lablabi soup for the second time. According to the new Milk Street food magazine, it is the Best Soup in the World. It’s Tunisian Chickpea soup, employing Harissa and cumin. Anyway, I like to think that attorney Bob Loblaw would enjoy Lablabi soup.

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    Glad to see this.

    I want to see Nunes, and a long list of congressional Republicans, go to jail when this is all done. Lose their Congressional pensions. We cannot afford such corruption and lying. Clean it up.

  11. 11.

    trollhattan

    @japa21: @Aimai:
    Recalling Trump crowed the Nunes memo totally exonerated him when it came out I’m not the least surprised Nunes claims the same, now. And yes five is about right, “Poopy” jokes at dinner and all.

  12. 12.

    JGabriel

    Adam L. Silverman @ Top:

    This minority report, even with the redactions, demolishes the arguments being made by Congressman Nunes, the House GOP Caucus, the administration, and their supporters.

    Weren’t they already pretty much demolished by the Mueller indictment against 13 Russians? Not that Schiff’s report isn’t a welcome addition to the continuing demolition of GOP propaganda.

  13. 13.

    Mnemosyne

    @mad citizen:

    I’m sorry, but you’ve been terribly misled. The Best Soup in the World is, in fact, pozole, regardless of whether it’s green or red, or made with chicken, pork, or no meat at all.

    I hope that magazine corrects their mistake soon. ?

  14. 14.

    japa21

    @trollhattan: Yes, five is about right. But it will be believed by a lot of people.

    BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

  16. 16.

    japa21

    @JGabriel: Listening to a couple people on MSNBC (their legal experts including one who has argued in front of the FISA court) on the way home today. They both said that this is a refutation of the Nunes memo, but that, after all, the best refutation of the Nunes memo was the Nunes memo itself.

  18. 18.

    Feebog

    I think the Nunes memo has already been pretty much discredited. Schiffā€™s memo puts the final nail in the coffin.

  19. 19.

    efgoldman

    OPEN THREAD!
    Today in our regular video call with granddaughter, she greeted us with a “super sister” t-shirt.
    Everybody’s thrilled. As before daughter and SIL aren’t going to share the sex or name (when they know).
    Of course as those with more than one grandkid know, it’s never as thrilling as the first time (my heart damn near stopped, then)

  21. 21.

    JGabriel

    @japa21:

    BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents.

    RINO’s all, except for Traitor Donald, Tricky Dick, and Saint Ronnie.

  22. 22.

    JGabriel

    @japa21:

    They both said that this is a refutation of the Nunes memo, but that, after all, the best refutation of the Nunes memo was the Nunes memo itself.

    Heh. Good observation.

  23. 23.

    MoxieM

    @Mnemosyne: OK, this actually demands its own thread…TaMara? Paging TaMara to the white courtesy phone!

    I put in a vote for Soto Ayam (Indonesian chicken soup), followed by pea soup, either the yellow pea QuƩbƩcois version, or the green pea Dutch version. mmm, soup!

    as ever, edited for idiocy.

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    @efgoldman: Wonderful news!

    I hope the new baby gets Mrs. efg’s lovely voice, and the Jeopardy contestant’s smarts. Your curmudgeonliness would be, uh, interesting too.

    Very happy to hear this. Lucky baby, for having such hands on grandparents.

  28. 28.

    efgoldman

    @MoxieM:

    this actually demands its own thread

    Don’t be silly. Beef Barley, Chicken w/(home made) matzoh balls, or real (not that pink shit, not canned) clam chowder.
    Oh. And pho with home made won ton. Which I can’t get around here.

  31. 31.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Turned on MSNBC to see if there was any news: Republican shill says the FBI relied on partisan oppo research, no pushback; Dem shill mumbles about the need to continue with the investigation; a “defense attorney” apparently brought out for some kind of balance starts screaming how we haven’t seen any evidence of collusion, no pushback. Jesus fucking christ people, do I have to fly to DC, break into the studio and read Slabhead Donnie’s “I love it” exchange to you all?

  32. 32.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Probably because she thinks soft power is more effective than bombing people. Also, she’s a big proponent of accepting refugees. Also, she worked for Obama. Also, she’s a lowly woman-creature.

    I don’t know what she said specifically, but any of the above will work as an explanation.

  34. 34.

    Mnemosyne

    @MoxieM:

    My super lazy sick day soup is frozen tortellini boiled in chicken broth. If I have enough energy to order in, I get BBQ pork won ton soup from the Chinese restaurant up the street.

  35. 35.

    Ohio Mom

    @efgoldman: What great news! Here’s hoping for an easy pregnancy for Daughter.

    Many of us here may seem cynical and pessimistic but our secret inner optimism shows when we can’t help but be thrilled that a new being will soon be joining us here on this blue marble.

  36. 36.

    cosima

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for the link to excellent Mexican food! One of the only things I miss about the US (and I can count them on one hand, save family/friends) is Mexican restaurants! I cook some excellent Mexican food, but it’s primarily because I have no option other than to cook it myself if I want to eat it. Finding the proper peppers is near impossible, and if I have to cancel my amazon prime subscription because they won’t dump the NRA channel I will have to do a massive Mexican pepper buy ahead of time.

    I’m glad to see that Schiff gave the GOP & orange fart cloud the middle finger and released this, but of course it will make no difference to the 27/32% crazed folk. How much coverage is it going to get with a weekend news dump? Why now?

  42. 42.

    M31

    SOUUUUPPPPPPP

    I’m making homemade mazto balls RIGHT NOW.

    But since this is soup shout-out thread: TOM YUM

    also beef/barley, french onion, and carrot/ginger, mmmmmm

  45. 45.

    rikyrah

    Anil Kalhanā€Verified account @kalhan

    Tillerson orders State Department to “trim” congressionally-mandated annual country reports on human rights, by removing and sanitizing discussions of reproductive rights, family planning, and racial, ethnic, and sexual discrimination:

  48. 48.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    Congratulations to all! I’m very happy for you and mrs efg (AND daughter AND son in law and OF COURSE the big sister!)

    ETA: Forgot to ask, when is the due date?

  49. 49.

    Mary G

    @efgoldman: Congratulations! I’m sure you will be thrilled with whichever type of grandbaby you get. And when the four-year-old turns 15 and is too cool to talk to you, there will still be an 11-year-old to tide you over. /s

    I am only on the second page, but boy, is it ever nice to read something that’s properly punctuated and uses regular words and makes sense. Schiff’s got some nice subtle snark going too. Nunes looks like the jackass he is. I am enjoying making up the redacted bits in my head, mostly Don Jr. and Kushner. A woman can dream.

  51. 51.

    rikyrah

    Black Florida woman receives lynching threat from ā€˜Whites 4 Trumpā€™ after argument about Parkland
    24 FEB 2018 AT 09:02 ET

    Law enforcement in Florida are investigating an incident of workplace racism by a supporter of President Donald Trump, WTSP reported Saturday.

    Terri Silar, who is black, said it started earlier this week when several co-workers were discussing gun control and President Trump in the wake of the Parking shooting massacre.

    The next day, she found a monkey stuffed animal with a noose around its neck hanging from her office chair.

    There was a racist note attached to the monkey.
    ā€œYou are getting deported back to Africa n****r and that will make America great again,ā€ the note read.

    The threat was signed, ā€œWhites 4 Trump.ā€
    A note on her monitor read, ā€œn****r b*tch.ā€

    ā€œI was shocked, but most of all I was hurt,ā€ Silar told WTSP.
    ā€œI felt threatened. I didnā€™t feel safe. For someone to be that bold. That is a blatant boldness and a hate crime,ā€ Silar explained. ā€œIt is a monkey with a noose around its neck. What message do you think Iā€™m going to take from that?ā€

    http://www.wtsp.com/article/news/crime/tampa-woman-says-monkey-with-noose-racist-note-left-on-her-desk/67-522778291

  54. 54.

    Another Scott

    Are we trying to figure out what the redactions say? If so, I’ll take the easiest one.

    Page 3, 3rd redacted word is “four” – is my guess.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    @Ohio Mom:

    Hereā€™s hoping for an easy pregnancy for Daughter.

    Yeah, second child in a row the last few months will be in the height (depths?) of the DC summer

  59. 59.

    Steve in the ATL

    Not sure if this should be classified or is just hard to belief: as I type these words, I am actually in the ATL!

  62. 62.

    Lapassionara

    @mad citizen: So, I went and looked. I love harissa, but the eggs are a bridge too far for me. Halves of soft boiled eggs in soup?

    But I will likely try some day, but truly there are so many great soups.

  66. 66.

    Mary G

    I am wondering why Carter Page hasn’t been indicted yet, because Schiff shows he’s done a lot of lying, including in a letter to then FBI Director Comey, and in testimony to Congress, or have I missed it? There is too much to keep up with these days.

  72. 72.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @rikyrah:

    Humans can be terrible. Ignorant, racist fearful, resentful, superstitious humans especially suck. I share a race with a whole damn lot of them.

  74. 74.

    p.a.

    @efgoldman: Congrats. Now that youā€™ve had practice spoiling one grandkid, #2 will be a piece of cake.

    I love any decently made soup, but last meal, itā€™s bun bo Hue. Although that soup with harissa is now gotta-try-list.

  75. 75.

    Bill Arnold

    @Another Scott:

    Page 3, 3rd redacted word is ā€œfourā€ ā€“ is my guess.

    Yeah, the redactions are well-played. People will be talking about that one – “into [four/five/nine?] individuals” and the 6 letter word (looks like) further on “against [eleven?] individuals“. If a five letter word, then seven/eight.
    Some of the longer redactions are even more suggestive. Impressed. :-) Need to re-read lining up all the footnotes.
    The Nunes memo deserved this treatment.

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The best soups are my mother in lawā€™s pho and my momā€™s chili.

    Chili ain’t soup. Chili ain’t stew. Chili is chili.

    A few year’s back, some friends won a local chili contest and we all went to the state finals. They didn’t win, but damn there was some fine tasting to be done.

    My uncle could do amazing chili and I learned a few tricks from him.

    I love chili. I can easily believe that your mom can make great chili.

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    @debit: @Yutsano:
    We have a ramen house that takes the poor college student staple to absurd heights. Eggs are a common add-on, one I don’t indulge but different strokes I guess. Carbonara, we can talk. Also, too, breakfast burritos.

  82. 82.

    jl

    @japa21:

    ” BTW, Schiff specifically pointed out that all the FISA warrants had been approved by judges appointed by Republican Presidents. ”

    Makes no difference. Trumpsters are dangerous authoritarians, with every vile thing that goes along with that. Everything is political, and and a political motivation can be manufactured for anyone, even a heretofore rock solid Republican. If he or she does something that is not in accordance with the interest, whims and wishes of the leader, they are guilty of something, and sanctions are demanded immediately.

    Edit: remember, the Bush family is anti-Trump, which is a suspect political position, and there is very probably a sinister treasonous Bush family plot to subvert judges appointed during their administrations. Probably Soros is funding it, or immigrant criminal gangs, or whatever nonsense. It may be nonsense, and so far over 2/3 of public opposes it, but it is still a very dangerous mindset.

  84. 84.

    smintheus

    Every news report I’ve read on the published Democratic memo has been weak in the extreme. It utterly demolishes the lies in the Nunes memo, but no surprise, the response of journalists is to pretend that the responses from Nunes and other Republicans about the Dem memo should be published without rebuttal as yet more lies.

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    @rikyrah: What a load of fucking horse shit in the Weekly Standard article. The author seems to love the good old days when Italians and the Irish and Jews were criminals, but somehow puts black people in a special category. And then there is this.

    If blacks once seemed all but invisible in my Chicago, today they are ubiquitous.

    Black people have lived in Chicago for a long ass time. But there are always people for whom black people are invisible. To hell with these assholes.

  87. 87.

    eemom

    @efgoldman:

    second child in a row the last few months will be in the height (depths?) of the DC summer

    Congrats!

    Also, fertility cycles are totally a thing. My second was born 3 years and and 361 days after my first.

  90. 90.

    Yarrow

    I’m taking care of my neighbor’s cats again so I’m heading out to do that. Fortunately it’s only a few days this time. I think the dry food in the plastic tub isn’t quite enough to last and I can’t find the spare dry food anywhere (it’s not where it usually is). I don’t know the kind she uses so I can’t just go buy some. I could text her but then she’d panic and I don’t want to mess up her vacation. I think I’ll give them more canned food and see if I can make the dry food last.

    @Steve in the ATL: Fake news!

  96. 96.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: What irritates me the most is the type of bigot who wants you to be thankful to them for their bigotry.
    The slavery was great for black people, they should have welcomed us with flowers in Baghdad, colonial era gave the ancient civilizations like China and India “culture”. You know, that kind of bigot. A bigot who has pretensions of not being bigoted. I am not a racist but, kind of a bigot.

  98. 98.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know if they’re on your okay food list, but if you add rotel (tomatoes and peppers) onions and celery, you would have my version of tortellini soup which is what I ate tonight. :-)

  100. 100.

    Steve in the ATL

    @jl:

    the Bush family

    If I may be pedantic (as if you can stop me!), the proper construction is ā€œthe Bush Crime Familyā€

  104. 104.

    WaterGirl

    @rikyrah: Boy, do I hope they were stupid enough to leave fingerprints or DNA. If so, i hope they will enjoy their little introduction to the justice system.

  106. 106.

    cosima

    On the subject of soup, I’ve made zuppa Toscana twice in the last couple of months, with friends coming over for walks, and needing a nice warm hearty soup after for warming up. My husband hates soup, but he loves that soup. Please don’t add cream of corn to thicken — abomination! And do add the cannellini beans.

    And speaking of Toscana (Italia!), I’ve just made reservations for our family to go to Italy in the fall! We’ll be staying in a small village in the Dolomites, near friends who have a holiday apartment there (ooh la la — but not big enough to tempt me to stay with them and have 8 people share one bathroom). We are going to spend a bit of time in Venice because Little Cosima has been wanting to go there. We went when she was a toddler, of course she doesn’t remember much of that, and as tired as I was (she has always been the worst sleeper!) I don’t remember much of it either. We lived in the UK then (as now), so going to Italy was (is) fairly reasonable as holidays go. I think our tickets from Edinburgh will be about Ā£250 round trip. We’ve not had a holiday outside the UK for 4+ years, so this is a big deal for us, if we have a holiday outside the UK (or an expensive one in the UK, say on Skye or similar) that’s it for us for spending frivolously for the year. I am finally feeling better, my tests all came back okay (knock wood), and I am ready for the family to have an adventure, a good one.

    Back to the subject of cooking/food/soup/whatever, our non-stick pan died fairly recently, so we replaced it. This review of non-stick pans has it as #1, and I can vouch for that — if you take care of it, it’s like an ice rink it’s so slippy. None of the evil nasties that come with Teflon or similar. It’s an investment, as it’s not a cheap pan, but the last Teflon pan we bought for nearly as much only lasted a few years before it seemed to be absorbing spices/tastes/?… So, greenpan = excellent investment. https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/best-nonstick-pan-to-buy-reviews-article

    And it is after midnight here, so I’m now going to bed…………

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Why now? Something, something unmasking.

    Chicago is Obama’s mainland hometown. So white conservative bigots love to focus on Chicago as the epitome of a domestic black shit hole. They also love to fixate on Chicago as proof that nothing can be done to help black people. Trump’s chief racism officer Stephen Miller can always be relied on for this and he uses Chcago to justify his anti black and anti-nonwhite immigration agenda.

    And yesterday I heard some Republican lawmaker say that America cannot have gun control because… Chicago.

  110. 110.

    debit

    @WaterGirl: Ginger and garlic sauteed in sesame oil, add broth and a little miso, then add sliced shiitake mushrooms, fresh chinese noodles, sliced green onion, shredded carrot and dried seaweed (I subbed chopped baby kale), siracha to taste. And apparently a soft cooked egg of some sort. Hurk.

    ETA: Disclaimer. I love eggs cooked in all sorts of ways. Just not in soup or stews.

  112. 112.

    Timurid

    Cajun style gumbo… you’re all looking at me like I’m stupid because it’s so hard to find good or even passable gumbo in a restaurant (even in Louisiana). But if you ever get to have the real thing, home made…

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    @debit: Where does one get fresh chinese noodles? Are they similar to the dried ramen noodles in the soup aisle, only fresh?

  117. 117.

    Mary G

    @WaterGirl: Wha? I haven’t posted any animals today. Yesterday there was the Jack Russell with the kitten and Griff the dog, maybe it was him? Or the night before flying squirrels, who I think are cute. Sorry, anyway.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    @BruceFromOhio: hahaha.

    I worked as a checkout girl at the grocery store while i was in college. That was way back when the frozen bread dough had just come out – I don’t even know if that’s a thing anymore? Everyone raved about it, so one of the baggers decided he would try it. He couldn’t figure out what he had done wrong. Turns out he did not thaw the frozen dough first.

    I also had to explain to one of the baggers how you boil water.

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    @WaterGirl:

    They should love her. Didnā€™t she make some negative comment about Clinton that caused a huge uproar?

    Samantha Power?

    She called Clinton a monster during the 2008 primary campaign and had to resign as an Obama aide.

  121. 121.

    debit

    @WaterGirl: I find them in the produce section where you can get fresh wonton wrappers. They aren’t crinkly, but I like ’em better. You can always use the dry ones in the Asian section but it takes a little longer, obviously.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    @Mary G: I couldn’t remember until you listed the options – it was Griff the dog. Is that a real dog? Scary! I wasn’t really giving you the side-eye, at least not in a bad way. But that was one scary pooch!

  123. 123.

    WaterGirl

    @Brachiator: That was really awful. Not that Power called Clinton a monster, but that her whole life and career was derailed, for a good long awhile at least, because of one foolish comment.

  125. 125.

    MoxieM

    Oh My Debit, you would love the Soto Ayam I ref’d above. Here’s an ingredient list, and a passing decent, and comprehensible recipe:
    1 Chicken breast ; 2 Chicken wing ; Ā½ Parts Onion ; 3 Garlic ; 1 Teaspoon Turmeric powder ; 1 Teaspoon Minced ginger ; 2 Teaspoons White pepper ;1 Or 2 chicken bouillon cube; Salt ; 1 Lemon grass ; 3 Lime leaves ; 2 Bay leaves (or Thai basil); Ā½ Centimeters Galangal

    Most recipes, including this one as you read, include vermicelli, boiled or fried eggs, sambal Oelek, aka Sriracha; and fried shrimp crackers as a topping (Krupuk), and some fried onions etc.

  126. 126.

    WaterGirl

    @debit: I have clearly not been paying attention to the Asian section anywhere – produce or the regular Asian aisle. thanks

  131. 131.

    StringOnAStick

    We tried to go back country skiing this morning but the wind was horrible. 5 degrees and 48 mph sustained winds is very sub zero wind chill. We thought about then drove back home. Ground blizzards on a sunny day = winter winds near Denver.

    I love that Schiff released it while Nunes was doing his fan dance at CPAC; nice touch. Perhaps it will get exhaustively discussed on the Sunday gasbag shows for their shrinking audiences. I want to see this get a LOT more attention and slap Nunes around a bit.

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    @StringOnAStick: Republicans will lie about the memo on all the sunday shows, and stupid people everywhere will think “both sides” and will either completely buy the Republican lies or conclude that they just don’t know what to think.

  134. 134.

    VeniceRiley

    @WaterGirl:

    @Brachiator: They should love her. Didnā€™t she make some negative comment about Clinton that caused a huge uproar?

    IIRC, during Obama v Clinton, she was the original unhinged “Killary!” asshole, and Obama had to make her apologise.

  135. 135.

    debbie

    @mad citizen:

    They discussed that soup on the radio version of Milk Street. It sounds interesting, especially the torn-up bread. Sort of like white gazpacho.

  136. 136.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: I bet it’s at least two people, and I’m sure they thought it was hilarious. Myself, I choose another “h” word – horrifying.

  141. 141.

    CaseyL

    @efgoldman: Congrats! Do they live near enough to you that you’ll get to see the grandbaby a lot?

    A hiking buddy gave me a recipe for potato bacon soup which has got to be the easiest soup ever to make. You basically boil a bunch of red potatoes, cut them up and put them in heated milk and stir for a while, then add cooked bacon. And if you want it to at least be within shouting distance of “healthy” you can add steamed/wilted kale.

    My grandmother had the Best Jewish Chicken Soup recipe ever, but we didn’t get it from her before she died and all attempts to recreate the recipe have fallen short. IIRC, you start out boiling an entire chicken, then remove the skin, meat and bones, and skim off all the fat, so you have a rich, clear stock. The stock is then cooked with celery and carrots and a bundle of “soup’n’greens,” which included dill and parsley and something else but no one knows what. The bundle is cooked with the soup for flavoring, but removed before serving (I used to love eating it). The chicken meat is broken up and added after the broth is finished.

    Then Nanny would fry up the chicken skin in the chicken fat with onions until the skin AND THE FAT were crisp to make “grebens,” which may be the Jewish equivalent of pork cracklings. Maybe a little healthier. Very little. My god, I loved those – I don’t dare even try to cook them now, because I couldn’t stop myself from eating the whole batch and would likely keel over immediately afterwards.

  142. 142.

    patrick II

    @rikyrah:

    Yesterday Trump & Paul Ryan fired respected GOP chair of Election Assistance Commission, which helps states protect voting machines from being hacked

    In the current context we think the Republicans don’t want the next election monitored too closely in spite of the threat of Russian interference. But the may also object to close monitoring because it may also put a crimp in their own election plans.

  143. 143.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    Seriously, though. There’s a finite number of employees and HR should be able to figure out exactly who did it. Assuming HR wants to.

  146. 146.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: The hell with HR – I would have called the police.

    I learned quite a long time ago that HR is not there to help the employees.

  155. 155.

    mad citizen

    @Shana: It’s a good soup! Very interesting taste, something I had not had before, with the harissa sauce. Cumin is in there too. It’s onions, garlic and chickpeas in a chicken/tomato paste/harissa base. Then at the end you put some croutons in the bowl, along with a soft-cooked egg, some cilantro, flat-leaf parsley, capers, green olives and enjoy.

  158. 158.

    mad citizen

    @debbie: It’s good! I think I put too much bread in mine tonight, though. I’d have to say that gumbo is probably my favorite soup/stew.

  166. 166.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Bill Arnold:

    The Nunes memo deserved this treatment.

    I still can’t figure out what in the Nunes memo actually needed to be redacted. There wasn’t anything in that that couldn’t have been spun together out of news coverage. Given that he never read the underlying classified information, and it is unclear if the two hacks he had working with him on drafting it had either, it is not surprising.

  169. 169.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Brachiator:

    The author seems to love the good old days when Italians and the Irish and Jews were criminals

    Which is interesting given his name is Joseph Epstein. It’s pretty clear which of the above groups he belongs to.

  170. 170.

    Ruckus

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    On the last ship I was stationed on (for about 3 weeks) we had a kid from Louisiana who would get a whole plate of eggs and slather, and I do mean slather, like gravy on mashed potatoes, cajan hot sauce on it. Every table I ever sat at to eat in the navy had salt, pepper, katsoup, and the same Louisiana Cajan hot sauce on it. This was the only person I ever saw use the hot sauce.

  173. 173.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Mnemosyne: Most of the bashing of Samantha Power I’ve seen is from True Progressive types who regard her as a corporate-Democrat warmonger. Some of it seems to shade into “everything I read on RT is true” stuff, which might in turn shade into the right-wing criticisms.

  178. 178.

    Smiling Mortician

    @Ohio Mom:

    Many of us here may seem cynical and pessimistic but our secret inner optimism shows when we canā€™t help but be thrilled that a new being will soon be joining us here on this blue marble.

    Yup. Weird, isn’t it? We can’t help ourselves.

  179. 179.

    Brachiator

    @VeniceRiley:

    IIRC, during Obama v Clinton, she was the original unhinged ā€œKillary!ā€ asshole, and Obama had to make her apologise

    There was nothing unhinged about her. It was a tough campaign. Clinton was boasting about how qualified she was and how untested Obama was.

    The apology was clearly strategic.

  182. 182.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    My Olympic podium for soups:

    Gold.) Soon Dubu Jiggae
    Silver.) Pho
    Bronze.) Everything else…

  184. 184.

    efgoldman

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Thatā€™s because none of you have ever had my mother-in-lawā€™s borshch.

    My dad, b.1915, grew up in the 20s and 30s in Boaton’s West End tenements. So even before the Depression, they pretty much ate whatever was available. About the only thing he wouldn’t eat was beets.

  186. 186.

    AnotherBruce

    Apparently, former Chicago Bear Charles (Peanut) Tillman, creator of the Peanut punch fumble has become an FBI agent.

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ruckus: The hot sauce is very, very helpful with MREs. In fact a mini bottle comes in the little pack that includes the plastic wear and the salt, pepper, and ketchup packets.

  195. 195.

    Amir Khalid

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I just read the essay. Epstein takes longer to come to his point than I really have patience for. And when he does get there, there’s not much to it. It’s the old racist stereotype of black people being weakened by dependence on ever-expanding welfare assistance, and black criminality somehow being the consequence. So I found myself asking, whence came the white criminality he remembers so much more fondly?

  196. 196.

    efgoldman

    @CaseyL:

    Then Nanny would fry up the chicken skin in the chicken fat with onions until the skin AND THE FAT were crisp to make ā€œgrebens,ā€ which may be the Jewish equivalent of pork cracklings

    My grandma (gone ~30 years) did the soup and gribenes (her pronunciation) the same way. If some other grandchild besides me was there, we fought over them.
    After she brought the whole chicken home from the kosher butcher, she rotated it over the stove burner to remove the remnants of feathers. Very distinctive smell. said to resemble the odor of a home permanent
    She always did it on Thursday, so the soup was ready for Shabat

  198. 198.

    frosty

    @Adam L Silverman: I scrounged my kid’s uneaten PANG MRE’s for my working-too-late pantry at work. Hey, infinite shelf life, right? I saved a tiny bottle of Tabasco and put it on my shelf. People look at it funny.

  205. 205.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Amir Khalid: I didn’t read it, I just clicked across to see who wrote it.

    And it’s not like there isn’t an entire historic study of Chicago, delinquency, and crime we could refer to. Oh wait, there is.

  207. 207.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @cosima: I love Venice, been there twice. Itā€™s a complete maze of twisty little streets and bridges so you never seem to go exactly where you intended and itā€™s hard to repeat a route. But itā€™s small and walkable so youā€™re never very far from where you intended either. Also seems like no matter which way you go, youā€™ll end up in Piazza San Marco, St Markā€™s Square.

    A caution about going in the fall. We were there in October I believe. Turns out thatā€™s the wet season. Constant rain, and high tides that flood the streets. Most of Piazza San Marco was under water and you had to get around on these temporary wooden walkways.

    But Venice has been building a huge engineering project to actually block those tidal floods and I think it may have actually gone operational since we were there.

  208. 208.

    Adam L Silverman

    @satby: I don’t have his address or anything, I just clicked over to see who the author was, then did a quick bio search.

  213. 213.

    Jeffro

    @WaterGirl:

    Canā€™t have eggs without ketchup? ::involuntary shudder::

    You can have eggs without ketchup, but then you have to have some hot sauce handy.

  216. 216.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Re: soup
    Best soup is whatever my wife has going in the Crock Pot.
    2nd best is an amazing lentil soup I had in a Lebanese restaurant decades ago, which has become mythical in my memory and which Iā€™m searching for every time I order lentil soup.
    (Some peopleā€™s quests are for the One True Ring; some are more modest)

    Below that, itā€™s a rotating list of favorites, but simple squash soups and gumbos are always near the top.

    ETA: And pho with all the weird bits like tendon and tripe that Iā€™d never eat in anything else.

  220. 220.

    Ninedragonspot

    @mad citizen: luv, luv, luv my instant pot – particularly for its ability to quickly cook dried beans. Also very handy with stew meats, pork shoulder, and stir-free risotto (for family – guests get hand-cranked risotto).

  221. 221.

    MoxieM

    @WaterGirl: That’s funny. I’m good with lemongrass, but anything with Bergamot in it (besides Earl Grey tea) tastes like bathroom cleaner to me. Just yuck.

  223. 223.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @satby:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Small (or maybe large) correction. U of Chicago is his alma mater, but he taught at and is a Lecturer Emeritus at Northwestern. I believe he still lives in Evanston.

    Years ago — 20? 25? — I read a couple of collections of Epstein’s “familiar essays,” and I recall finding them rather engaging. Don’t think I’ve ever read any of his political or politico-social stuff; certainly haven’t opened the Weekly Standard piece under discussion.

  224. 224.

    Ninedragonspot

    My special-treat soup, which I do not make, has stinky tofu, intestines, duckā€™s blood and spicy sauce. Common in Taiwanese night markets and soooo tasty.

  226. 226.

    raven

    @OmnesOmnibus: During the Vietnam war Brig. Gen. Walter S. McIlhenny son of the 2nd company president of McIlhenny Company from his experiences with C-Rations as a soldier during WWII came up with the idea to send soldiers copies of the Charley Ration Cookbook filled with recipes for spicing up C-rations with Tabasco Pepper Sauce wrapped around two-ounce bottles of Tabasco Pepper Sauce along with a handful of a P-38 type can openers all in a waterproof canister. What follows will be a copy of the cookbook.

  228. 228.

    Amir Khalid

    @Jeffro:
    If he keeps it up, the shitgibbon is bound to say something stupidly self-incriminating. He’s working very hard to help make Bobby Three Sticks’ eventual case against him.

  230. 230.

    Gravenstone

    @Spanky: There’s kind of an odd dichotomy to celebrity deaths. Either ‘gone too soon’, or ‘you mean they were still alive?!?’

  231. 231.

    raven

    @raven: Hmm, a soldier.

    Walter Stauffer McIlhenny (October 22, 1910 – June 22, 1985) served as president of McIlhenny Company, maker of Tabasco brand pepper sauce, from 1949 until his death in 1985. He also distinguished himself as a member of the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve ā€” receiving the Navy Cross for his actions during the Battle of Guadalcanal and retiring as a brigadier general. He was a co-founder, trustee, and president emeritus of the Marine Military Academy in Harlingen, Texas.

    I also didn’t realize that it’s his helmet with the dent from the Japanese sword displayed at the WW2 museum in New Orleans. Click the link above to see it on the wiki page.

  235. 235.

    p.a.

    Oh almost forgot pollock jjigae (fresh not frozen pollock) ??. Only issue was it was my 1st experience w Korean steel chopsticks, and the pollock was split and cut but not boned. Lucky for me it was so perfectly cooked I could place it in a side dish, peel the meat off as if I knew what I was doing, and return it to the stock. Fiery spicy. Donā€™t think itā€™s on the menu any more.

  243. 243.

    satby

    @raven: I usually heard that with the tommy gun imitation.
    Now the last few times I’ve travelled overseas, it’s “Barack Obama” people say when they hear I’m from Chicago. Much better!

  246. 246.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: I have a Floriduh! Man post scheduled for 11 PM EST that interconnects the President and Floriduh’s most dangerous indigenous species.

  247. 247.

    magurakurin

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I have to admit, Venice was not my favorite place. You description is totally accurate and it is an amazing place but there are just so many visitors. I really have conflicted feelings about it. Glad to have seen such a unique and beautiful historic place, but also a bit guilty to trample a bit on what is a dying city in human terms. Not sure what they can do there, but as a real, living, vibrant city, Venice is in great danger. Few people can afford to live there or stand the daily crush of humanity that surges through the city. Most of the residents have moved out and when you wander around you find little plazas and streets that seem almost abandoned and the brave souls who have stayed are none too friendly…and who can blame them. It’s a difficult conundrum.

  248. 248.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. That’s why I wrote he’s a professor emeritus at Northwestern and a life long Chicagoan. Never said he was a professor at U Chicago.

  250. 250.

    WaterGirl

    @raven: Al Capone lived next door to me when I was growing up. HIs name was on the mailbox for one of the apartments next door, anyway. As a kid I was sure it was the real Al Capone. Who knows?

    I also thought the stars followed me, because no matter where I walked, the same star was right above me.

  258. 258.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I was in the blue water navy. A lifetime ago. We didn’t have Crap rations or MREs, or good food for that matter. Now if one had been out to sea on anything less than a carrier for some time what we did have were saltines. Stale but with extra protein. And the occasional individual small boxes of cereal. Also stale with extra protein. And no milk. Yummmm.

  263. 263.

    Ruckus

    @efgoldman:
    Grandma brought chickens at the butcher? Mine, gone now almost 60 yrs, would go out in the back yard and pick one up by the head and literally wring it’s neck for Sunday dinner. If you had any appetite left after all the prep the fried bird was delicious. Gran lived about a mile or so south west from USC.

  276. 276.

    Adam L Silverman

    @OmnesOmnibus: During the first semester of my freshman year I convinced myself that my residence department assigned apartment mate was a bad figment of my imagination. When I came back from winter break he was gone. So it work

    The truth is he failed out in one semester.

  277. 277.

    Ruckus

    @raven:
    The ships store ran out of geedunk well before we ran out of what the navy called food. The ships store was about 4 ft square with an window in the door. What they sold mostly were cartons of cigs once we’d reached the 12 mile limit and didn’t have to charge taxes. A carton was if I remember $2.50, with a limit of 2. It seemed like 80% of the crew smoked, although smoking was only allowed in certain spaces and only when the smoking lamp was lit. I could be wrong about the percentage.

  278. 278.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    Damn it no we didn’t. At the time the British navy had a 2 beer per day limit, with the navy supplying the beer. As best as I could tell all of the European sailors that we talked to had liquor rations. Alas not in the country that had prohibition.

  280. 280.

    Ken

    @Amir Khalid:

    If he keeps it up, the shitgibbon is bound to say something stupidly self-incriminating.

    Wasn’t that point passed months ago? A TV interview where he basically said “I fired Comey because he wouldn’t stop the investigation”?

  281. 281.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    Quite possibly. But the worst, and I mean by miles, worst food I had in the navy was at Great Lakes. Stationed there for tech school, it was most days totally inedible. We were marched there for lunch every day so couldn’t go to the club for a sandwich or burger. Longest 3 months of my life. No amount of hot sauce would make it edible. I have stories. The filet of brontosaurus butt every Thursday was especially inedible.

  282. 282.

    Jay

    @efgoldman:

    There’s beets, and then there’s beets.

    Other than sugar beets, beets need a good rich soil high in sulphur, to really get flavour, then they need a frost for the sugars, then, the longer they are in storage, other than a real root cellar, their sugars convert to carbo’s,

    I got a local restaurant to buy my beets, after trying their borsch. I talked to the chef, noted that it was “good”, but the beets sucked.

    Dropped off a bag of beets and carrots a couple of days later, and the kitchen staff fought over them raw.

    1960 kilos of beets a year, 1280 kilo’s of carrots.

  286. 286.

    OmnesOmnibus

    @Ruckus: My uncle was a plank holder for the Bainbridge. He was part of an all nuke flotilla that did a circumnavigation without resupply to show they could. From Australia to Norfolk, pancakes were the only food served. It was about 20 years before he could eat them again.

  287. 287.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    Some how I doubt that. Sure it can be inedible, sure it could have extra protein, sure it could almost cause a mutiny, but I’ve heard way too many stories about army food to believe it’s better on average. It’s just that I came from a family that ate at good restaurants and my mom and her sisters were all great cooks. My sister was even better and I’m not half bad. So any military food is going to pale compared to that. Hell I had to teach my first live in girlfriend how to boil water. Literally. I just find it fun to discuss how bad the food was in any place where it’s cooked in steam kettles and starts out with the printing on the box, FDA, Allowed for human consumption. That’s a pretty low standard.

  288. 288.

    OmnesOmnibus

    @Ruckus: My battalion’s cooks won awards for gourmet cooking using a field kitchen. Day after day, they produced dreck, I assume the military wanted it that way.

  289. 289.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    Yes, now I remember it. Fun times that must have been. My most hated meal is chicken and that’s from the navy. I used to love it, even after watching gran fix it from live bird to the table. I can eat it occasionally from the right place but cook it myself? NFW and it’s only been 45 yrs since I was discharged.

  291. 291.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    I’ve written here before about the mutiny that the cooks came very close to causing. It’s like the kid writing home from summer camp, “The food here is horrible and there isn’t enough of it.” Mostly it wouldn’t kill you but working on an around the clock schedule, being underway for weeks at a time, and eating crap is bad enough, when they don’t even make what the menu for the day says and tell you to fuck off if you complain……..There really was talk of breaking into the arms locker, although the gunners mates would probably have been in on it as well, and taking over the ship. Earnest talk. Very pissed off people, lifers included.

  294. 294.

    Ruckus

    @OmnesOmnibus:
    I went navy to avoid being drafted into the Marines as the life expectancy after being drafted into the Marines once you hit Vietnam, odds of which seemed to be around 99% was given as 2 weeks. 1/3 of draftees were being sent to the Marines when I joined, and in the lottery shortly after I did my number was 15. I know my odds of good things happening to me, the navy was better than being cannon fodder. Decades later I’m still here, as are you.

  297. 297.

    J R in WV

    @Ruckus:

    My number was either 27 or 72, didn’t matter which, they both went by February, when I got my letter. Tried for the Coast Guard, eyes not good enough, but plenty good enough to be a grunt in the jungle! So I went to the Navy. I was at Great Lakes in 1970, the food wasn’t terrible.

    On board the ship (AS-16) when we went to sea I lived on crackers, beef jerky and hot tea. Mostly. I worked on the mess deck for several months, so I knew how the food was made. The burgers on the hot line were OK, for the Navy.

    But many good stories, as well as awful.

  298. 298.

    Ruckus

    @J R in WV:
    Even then that was an old ship. Of course I was on a 10 yr old ship but really it probably looked little different from yours inside. Same bunks, same lockers. That didn’t change until ships built in the 70s.
    My Great Lakes time was Nov 70 to end of Jan 71, in B school. Did you do boot camp there? Mine was SD, literally next door to MCRD. I got to watch what I missed by not being drafted into the Marines. Was worth every day of the extra 2 yrs.
    As an engineering swab on a DDG, I didn’t have to do mess deck duty. I still had to eat there though. What I liked was having to unload a semi of food on the dock. You got to see what the food the cooks fucked up was to start with. Everything was only one step above “Not Approved for Human Consumption.”
    When we’d pull into a foreign port I’d find a bakery and buy fresh bread. That and peanut butter got me through a lot of days. But at some point before the next port you’d always run out of whatever food you could hide and you’d have to eat on the mess deck.
    ETA You are right some good stories. I met some great guys on the ship and some very much not so great guys.

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