On Thursday, Tucker Carlson’s horseshit chronicle and carnival sideshow hosted a Stoneman-Douglas student, Colton Haab, who claimed that his question for the CNN town hall was re-written by CNN. His father produced emails supposedly documenting this fact. Shock horror – they were modified, apparently by the father. Good to see CNN fighting back. I’m not going to be too hard on the kid and his dad – if Tucker gave a shit about the truth, he would have done a tiny bit of due diligence before broadcasting a convenient lie.
The right wing and their media enablers are lying because they are losing. Calling Parkland kids “crisis actors”, hounding them with death threats on Facebook, and sneering at them about their language and tone are classic fear responses from a group that doesn’t have an argument. No matter, these Parkland kids are fighting back. Sarah Chadwick is funny as hell, btw:
Is your child texting about gun reform?
LOL: lets get stricter background checks
DTF: don’t take money from NRA
BRB: ban rifles bro
TTYL: Tomi Lahren stop talking— Sarah Chadwick// #NEVERAGAIN (@sarahchad_) February 23, 2018
The way to keep score here at the moment is to count the number of companies that have disowned the NRA. Since Cheryl posted last night, Delta and United (which weren’t even on the original list) are out. The only big brand left is FedEx, if they haven’t crumbled by the time I finish typing this post.
Here’s a bonus example of fighting back against bullshit:
Last week, some tabloids in Britain claimed that Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn sold secrets to communist spies. A Conservative MP tweeted that out. Today, he ate shit:
“On 19 February 2018 I made a seriously defamatory statement on my Twitter account, ‘Ben Bradley MP (@bbradleymp)’, about Jeremy Corbyn, alleging he sold British secrets to communist spies. I have since deleted the defamatory tweet. I have agreed to pay an undisclosed substantial sum of money to a charity of his choice, and I will also pay his legal costs.
“I fully accept that my statement was wholly untrue and false. I accept that I caused distress and upset to Jeremy Corbyn by my untrue and false allegations, suggesting he had betrayed his country by collaborating with foreign spies.
“I am very sorry for publishing this untrue and false statement and I have no hesitation in offering my unreserved and unconditional apology to Jeremy Corbyn for the distress I have caused him.”
Just fucking fight back. Call FedEx. March on March 24th. Register people to vote. Make a few calls.
JPL
Tucker and others like to preach about consequences unless it pertains to them.
Baud
Why are we not being hard at the dad? Was he manipulated by Tucker into altering the emails?
japa21
See conservatives can acknowledge mistakes and apologize for spreading falsehoods…except in the US.
dr. bloor
@japa21: The penalties for not doing so in the UK are considerably more severe than in the US.
MattF
@japa21: But where would they start? How about the thirty years of flat-out lying about the Clintons? I kinda-sorta don’t expect that to happen.
dr. bloor
Seeing FedEx and other carriers drop amorphous sponsorship/partnership agreements would be nice. Even better would be a commitment by FedEx, UPS, et al to decline transport of weapons from gun manufacturers and sales outlets. You want guns in the hands of every American? Deliver them yourselves.
Kay
Here are the good faith actors David Brooks believes we should all be deferring to on school safety issues:
These people are lying because they’re terrified the public will figure out they are directly responsible for some of this.
I refuse to let the NRA direct what happens in public schools. Enough. I don’t want their help.
Kay
The NRA, this ridiculous gun lobbying group wrote a “plan” for “school hardening” and the idiot Republicans incorporated it into a congressional study.
Now they’re running godammned schools? Fuck that. I don’t want them anywhere near a school.
Someone needs to back these people off and out them back out on the fringe, where they belong. Stop bugging us! Conduct your hobby in your own basement. They have no business planning US school facilities. None.
Feathers
Now all we need is Corbyn to start coming out hard against Brexit. Not following it closely, except through the Brits on my Twitter feed, but it astonishes me that no one has managed to become the loud and clear voice of the reality of what a disaster Brexit will be. Lots of nibbling, but no flesh torn off and spat out. Is it the media landscape there, or just a situation of the opposition being too diffuse?
RedDirtGirl
That Brexit Minister on the BBC clip basically said, “It would be irresponsible not to speculate”.
What a weasel!
Any NY Metro area BJers want to march together on 3/24?
Villago Delenda Est
Tucker Carlson is desperately trying to overtake Sean Hannity as the prince of bullshit on Faux Noise. Hannity had better up his game.
debbie
Has anyone read this and think this might have potential?
Yeah, yeah, it’s the New York Times. Man up and read it anyway.
WereBear
@Feathers: It is the same reason the freakin’ obvious is so hard for our own media outlets to point out: because they are owned by the people who want this dysfunction to continue.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay: Also, too, keep your military grade weapons locked up in a locker at the range, if you simply must have deadly toys of that nature, you sniveling cowards.
Villago Delenda Est
@debbie: They won’t, because money is money, even if it’s blood money.
Wipe them out. All of them.
debbie
@Kay:
Tne only thing that will work against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who will work to demolish the NRA.
Baud
OT. I’m reading a biography of Harry Truman, and here is a quote from Truman himself from about 1947, talking about the Republican Party.
There ain’t nothing new under the sun.
foucault swing voter mistermix
@debbie: I read this somewhere else, too – can’t remember where. I don’t think it’s crazy. Credit card providers can refuse to process transactions from whomever they please, and they were refusing some forms of Internet e-commerce in the past.
MattF
@debbie: The catch is that there would have to be a way for the financial industry to profit from not serving the gun industry. I don’t see it.
gene108
I think the Stoneman Douglas massacre is sort of like Rosa Parks and the bus boycott.
Something spontaneous* that gave people a reason to do what they wanted to do for a long, long time.
There is no going back. 25 years ago gun safety groups had enough power to get the Brady Bill and AWB passed. The gun lobby has not always been all powerful.
* I know the NAACP put a lot of planning into the Rosa Parks tired from a hard days work, refusing to give up her seat to a white man story, but it was an enough is enough incident to justify launching a revolution.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Truman was more or less quoting Will Rogers, who was saying the same thing in the 1930s–I think Rogers invented the phrase “trickle down” as a slam on Hoover.
Kay
@debbie:
Why can’t they just be what they are? They’re a gun lobbying/grift that claims far more members than they have and pays a small group of people at the top a ton of money.
What I can’t stand is this phony “seriousness”, where they think they get to direct everything. Just be a group that shills for guns. Wave that flag proudly. Spare us the bullshit “white papers” and phony concern about “the kids”.
The NRA school plan is horrible, because of course it is. It’s larded with that military language they all love and it will turn schools into miserable, grim, paranoid places. It’s a school plan written by a bunch of middle-aged weapons lobbyists. Their work has nothing to do with safe schools. Their work is about enriching themselves and covering their asses.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I didn’t know it had such a long pedigree.
Betty Cracker
The gun manufacturers’ chief lobbyist in Florida, Marion Hammer, is in a sputtering rage now that detestable grift-maven Governor Scott isn’t reading from the talking points she supplied. I am under no illusion that Scott gives a shit about preventing gun violence, but he does know he has to do something to maintain the viability of an expected US Senate run. He’s proposed measures that make sense (upping the age to 21 for all gun purchases, creating a system to remove guns / prevent purchases by people with domestic violence convictions) and others that are NRA-endorsed nonsense like more armed guards / prison-like school facilities.
I don’t know if these measures will go anywhere, but the fact that they are being proposed by NRA-rated A+ Scott is a marvel all by itself. But the really fascinating thing to me is Hammer’s reaction. You can tell she’s just astonished that the wingnut governor and wingnut super-majority in the FL statehouse are no longer dancing to her tune. She literally wrote legislation that they rubber-stamped for decades, and her sense of entitlement is something to behold.
geg6
Sarah Chadwick is the awesomest.
Every day is a day with bullshit now. We’re drowning in it.
PsiFighter37
@Feathers: It’s because Corbyn himself didn’t really care about the EU…he campaigned extremely lukewarmly to stay, and many (including myself) wouldn’t be surprised if he actually voted ‘Leave’ in the safety of the voting booth.
Corbyn sucks, and the fact that May and the Tories can get away with bumbling their way, blunder after blunder, through Brexit is a testament to just how impotent Labour is. Their ‘success’ in the last election (which meant ‘not losing as badly as expected’) is largely due to how idiotic the Tories are.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: I’m not even sure they’re that any more. It’s gone beyond the grift. They’re more like an extreme-right apocalyptic cult seeking to catastrophically remake society in their image, with the Gun as a totemic object.
Chip Daniels
I’m also not willing to let the “mental illness” excuse.
It isn’t just all sorts of mentally ill people doing these shootings.
Its a very gender specific type of illness, basically male rage and insecurity.
Neurotic women aren’t doing it, hallucinating old people aren’t doing it, obsessive compulsive disordered people aren’t doing it.
The shootings are by alienated, angry, mostly young men.
gene108
@debbie: @Villago Delenda Est:
Social pressure got companies to withdraw from doing business in Apartheid South Africa, in the 1980’s.
I bet something could be done to get credit card companies from processing payments for gun sales.
I am just not good at organizing things, but I do not think this is out of the realm of possibilities, if people good at organizing things took it up.
People got advertisers to stop advertising on Limbaugh’s show and Fox News.
retiredeng
Does anyone know of or have a list of the NRA wanker companies? Needs to be plastered all over the Internet.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: I remember being surprised to learn that saying “Democrat Party” as a passive-aggressive way of irritating Democrats goes back at least to the 1940 Wendell Willkie campaign.
pat
I think there are substantial differences in this school massacre. A well-educated, prosperous, tech savvy community of smart kids have come into their own. I hope they get enough positive results and comments to keep this up.
Oh, and imagine if this 19 year old kid had not been able to legally buy this weapon until he was 21.
Would he still want to kill his peers? Or would his life taken a different turn by then?
gene108
@MattF:
We will boycott the hell out of them, and pay everything cash or by check.
Betty Cracker
@Matt McIrvin: No kidding? I thought it was one of Rush Limbaugh’s childish inventions, like “Algore.”
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: Fascinating.
schrodingers_cat
@Matt McIrvin: @Baud: Rs have decided to replay the 1920s.
1. They want to restrict immigration by initiating an anti-immigrant hysteria. (Johnson-Reed 2.0)
2. Slap tariffs (Smoot-Hawley 2.0) and rail against trade.
3. Tax-cuts (old but goody; this has already been done) for me, austerity for you (in progress)
4.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
To be fair, I think the Republicans as a whole are conflicted on trade.
Matt McIrvin
@Chip Daniels: “Mostly young” maybe by total numbers, but I think it’s interesting that mass shooters skew less young than the typical violent criminal. The school shooters are all young guys, but if you look at the list of deadliest mass shootings, guys in their 40s and 50s come up almost as often. And the Vegas shooter was 64. Feelings of loss of respect or status in middle-aged white guys seems to be almost as strong an instigator as sexual/social frustration in young guys.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Not just the Rs, I am so old that I remember how Warren was lionized for opposing the TPP.
Hiding in the basement is not going to stop the world from changing.
lgerard
@gene108:
I think it is (hopefully) similar to the Greensboro sit in of 1960. Also started by a handful of teenagers who persisted.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Agreed, but our side has been conflicted for a quite a while. That’s not news.
Sloane Ranger
Surprised Bradley has folded so fast. On Thursday’s Question Time the Tory panel member was basically spouting the irresponsible not to speculate line and throwing in Jeremy’s contacts with the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah as further evidence that he hates Britain. Poor man must feel sooo let down today.
As for Brexit, the simple fact is that Corbyn is not unhappy with the vote to leave. The faction of the left to which he belongs has always considered the EU a neo-liberal institution dedicated to supporting big business and Capitalism in general. It’s not widely known but there were leftists active within the Brexit campaign.
Aimai
@Feathers: he supported brexit.
No Drought No More
“I am very sorry for publishing this untrue and false statement and I have no hesitation in offering my unreserved and unconditional apology to Jeremy Corbyn for the distress I have caused him.”
Picture John Cleese hanging out a window by his heels in A Fish Called Wanda.
Winston Churchill was once insulted on the floor of Parliament by a young MP who was forced by his party to offer a personal apology. Churchill was on the toilet when he made his appearance to apologize, and told his manservant to tell him to wait because “I can only take one shit at a time”.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@retiredeng: Look here. The ones crossed out in red have cut their NRA ties. You’ll see there’s also a place to sign up for notices about changes in the list.
https://thinkprogress.org/corporations-nra-f0d8074f2ca7/
Aleta
Protesters with Pri me accounts or App le TV are calling those companies to ask them to drop n barf a teevee. Programming is said to be vile, if you can believe communists like Mr. Rogers.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Then the next slogan should be : Remember how well the 1920s worked out?
retiredeng
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Thanks. I get it now. I hope that’s a complete list. Sorry I didn’t see the list on Cheryl’s original post.
Kelly
I am not a lawyer. I had a thought last night on the Mueller charging people with stuff and the possibility of Trump pardoning the perpetrators. Seems Mueller has a list of possible charges and only uses a few. Could he be planning to charge the perps with other counts if Trump pardons them on the first ones? Could we end up in a charges, pardons, more charges, pardons cycle?
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Would any of the GOP-proposed measures have stopped the shooting in Broward by Cruz? AFAIK, no. Sun-Sentinel:
Kids find ways to get keys, or work around them, given enough time, and determination. Cruz not being able to legally buy an AR-15 until he was 21 wouldn’t have stopped him if he could easily have used the Sneads’ rifles.
Of course, the things the GOP are proposing wouldn’t have stopped Cruz. We know that. Their proposals are always window-dressing. And when push-comes-to-shove, they’ll find ways to oppose actual legislation in too many cases.
We need to do much more.
Eyes on the prize.
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Thank you for this!
gene108
@Kelly:
I am hoping Mueller has coordinated with enough state AG’s that if Trump pardons them on Federal charges, the state AG’s will pick up the slack and get convictions.
Therefore, we won’t have a repeat of Iran-Contra, where Bush, Sr pardoned those found guilty and thus burying any further investigation.
Chyron HR
@Sloane Ranger:
Oh, Vlad, you’ve done it again you cheeky scamp.
Mike J
@Feathers:
He’s pro Brexit. Why would he come out against it?
MattF
@Sloane Ranger: My understanding is that one of Corbyn’s claims to fame is that he says what thinks.
Emma
That kid is going to catch some serious s_it in school.
Kelly
@gene108: Yeah sorta the reverse of KKK guys being convicted on federal charges after local juries let them slide on state charges. But I’m thinking Trumps guys have such an array of possible federal charges there could be more federal charges in reserve. I’m wondering if the Iran Contra pardoning solution will fly anymore. I”d really like to see the look forward not back thing go away. It seems to me the look forward not back thing is a big part of how it got this bad.
smintheus
@Emma: Good. He and his dad are lying @zzh-les.
Timurid
@Villago Delenda Est:
The dirty secret about AR/AK type weapons is that they’re crazy fun to shoot. I’d probably own one if I was wealthy enough to make the cost of the weapon (and a safe to keep it in) trivial. But shooting stuff up at the range is all they’re good for. They have no practical hunting or home defense use. If I had one I’d have no problems with it sitting in a locker at the range when I wasn’t using it. That would actually remove a lot of the inconvenience and risk of owning a weapon like that…
sukabi
@debbie: actually Bank of America is looking at that…
debbie
@sukabi:
Good. It just takes one, and then the rest will follow.
artem1s
Seems to me that this fight is taking a similar course as that against Big Tobacco. They were unbeatable until they weren’t. They had the courts, lobbyists, and a large swath of elected officials beholden to their purse strings. It was argued that the rights of smokers were paramount to the rights of all others. Businesses feared banning smoking in their establishments. Even public schools, which banned smoking for students, all had teachers smoking lounges. Hospitals had to have smoke free maternity wards. I remember smokers freely butting their smokes anywhere, even the floor of the grocery store. The CEOs brazenly lied in open hearings to Congress and expected to get away with it. Then suddenly, it was over. The NRA knows the score. They have managed to get courts to outlaw some of the tools that were used to bring down Big Tobacco, like keeping doctors from collecting data on gun related injuries, etc… But they know they are running out of ways to block the backlash. They are in their death throws and they know it.
Betty Cracker
@artem1s: I’m old enough to remember “no smoking” sections in restaurants, which was about as effective as a “no peeing” section in a pool.
gene108
@Kelly:
In the hands of people interested in facts, truth and justice looking back could be useful.
In the hands of Republicans, it will be used to jail political opponents on the flimsiest of charges.
Whitewater, and impeaching Bill over an affair, were payback for Watergate and Iran-Contra.
We have one radical far-right party that are basically fascists at their core. There is nothing well intentioned they cannot twist to be used for evil.
Thaddeu
Colleges Are Promising High Schoolers That Getting Suspended For Protesting Guns Won’t Hurt Their Admissions Chances
Kelly
@artem1s: Seems to work that way with a lot of things. Gay rights, weed. I’ve often read it’s not the size of the faction it’s the intensity. The crazy fears of the right wing has given them an intensity advantage. They’ve pushed so hard that normal folks are mad at them and even scared by them switching the intensity advantage to the left.
Schlemazel
@debbie:
My proposal for years has been mandatory insurance. There would be strict minimums on coverage (say $1MM x number of potential victims). Obviously my .270 Winchester deer rifle with its fixed 5 shot magazine would cost a couple of bucks. My shotgun with its fixed 3 round mag probably less. If I had a .22 target pistol it would similarly be cheap. But a .223 Bushmaster or AR-15? Yeah those are going to be expensive & if, like a lot of those assholes, you own 30-40 long guns it will add up. Its simple, the insurance companies will do the work, it would be effective & best of all it does not violate the 2nd in any way so they would be lost trying to fight that angle.
Sloane Ranger
@MattF: He likes to give that impression, yes but, when you listen to him, ask yourself what he hasn’t said that another politician would have. That’s the key.
Also, he has to wrestle with a Parliamentary Party that is still, at least for the moment, pro EU.
Thaddeu
Colleges Are Promising High Schoolers That Getting Suspended For Protesting Guns Won’t Hurt Their Admissions Chances
Ladyraxterinok
(Haven’t read thread) Read AT&T also supports NRA. Anyone know if this is true?
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: This is the really interesting question. Why did the dad doctor the email? Did he do it because he wanted attention? Or because he thought his kid was more deserving of attention than he was receiving compared to the other survivors? Did someone put him up to it? Was money involved? Other potential forms of compensation?
Neldob
@debbie: Its an interesting idea, and nice if the corps do it, but let the citizens take control. The corps are too powerful already. What the corps giveth the corps can taketh away.
Villago Delenda Est
@Timurid: Funnest time I ever had a range: firing off a .50 cal.
Least fun time: qualifying sharpshooter with an M1911A1 (my assigned weapon) and missing expert by 1 shot.
dmsilev
@Schlemazel: That’s my view as well. Mandate liability insurance for all guns, and let the private insurance industry sort out what the appropriate premiums should be. If owning your AR-15 dick extension means sending several hundred dollars a year to Allstate or Geico, it’s not going to be quite as much fun.
schrodingers_cat
@Sloane Ranger: So, is it fair to say that Corybn is a British Bernie. B^2.
schrodingers_cat
Question: Is there a national level female politician that can get away with looking as disheveled as the sage of Vt.
ETA: In any country of the world? Dude is bathing in male privilege.
debbie
@Schlemazel:
Absolutely. If you’re liable for hitting someone with your car, you should be liable for shooting an innocent person, intentionally or not.
Schlemazel
@Timurid:
Hated the AR, it was jamming regularly, the Ak was ‘rattley’ but given my range & my kids real world experience would be my choice between the two. The old Soviet PPS was more fun and the Thompson .50 was the real deal. I know why gangsters loved them.
I have no use for any of them though. BTW – did you know that the NRA supported & helped draft the ban on full auto weapons?
Kelly
@gene108:
Yeah and it’ll take constant weeding to keep them under control just like the ivy and scotch broom down in our woods.
Matt McIrvin
@Timurid: I keep seeing people protesting angrily that they hunt with an AR-15 all the time. They seem to be fairly popular as hunting weapons. But nobody’s explained to me why they need to shoot faster than a bolt-action rifle when they’re hunting.
Amir Khalid
@schrodingers_cat:
That has always been my misgiving about Corbyn.
schrodingers_cat
@Timurid: I recall that you are a scholar of south-Asian/Indian history. I have been meaning to ask you what period do you specialize in.
Schlemazel
@debbie:
More than that, if the weapon is lost or stolen you should still be responsible!
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Anybody talking about Bernie lying his ass off about Russian trolls ?
Schlemazel
@Matt McIrvin:
What sort of an asshole would hunt with a weapon designed to do so much damage to the meat? Screw those people.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: Because they don’t want to give up the cover of what they were before the Cincinnati Revolt of 1977. Prior to that the were very small c conservative in what they were and what they did. What they were was a sportsman’s, as in sport shooters (target competition and hunting) organization. And what they did was focus on marksmanship, training, and safety. And they were quite good at it. They largely stayed out of what we now think of as the gun control or gun safety fights. The NRA leadership had been involved in both the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act, simply because they were the largest and only at the time national organization for people involved in shooting sports.
And then 1977 happened. And a concerted effort was put in place to take over a number of institutions (or create them if they didn’t exist or couldn’t be taken over), radicalize them onto a reactionary trajectory, weaponize them, and then set them to purpose to remake the American political, religious, and economic landscape. This happened with the Southern Baptist Convention. It happened with the GOP in an attempt to make it ready and available for Reagan’s candidacy post Ford and Nixon. It happened with one of the Lutheran Synods. It happened with the NRA in what is called the Cincinnati Revolution. And it happened with other national organizations and groups.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-teen-killer-who-radicalized-the-nra
When you look back you see a number of organizations that radically altered what they were, what they stood for, what they did, who and what they would support politically. And it all occurred within a short time frame, starting within months of President Carter taking office. Too many to be a coincidence. Or, rather, that much coincidence seems to have taken a lot of work. It is still, however, unclear who was really behind this. We know who some of the players were, the money men like Viguerie and the theologians like Schaefer. But what has always struck me as the missing bits of information is who ultimately planned this? Too many organizations were taken over, purged, and remade in too short a time span for it to simply be spontaneous happenstance.
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
schrodingers_cat
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: How much did Vladdie contribute to BS camp on Lake Champlain?
schrodingers_cat
@Matt McIrvin: Because they can.
Villago Delenda Est
@Matt McIrvin: If you’re hunting with an AR-15, you shouldn’t be hunting, period. You’re ruining the meat. Oh, wait, you don’t eat what you kill? Like I sad, you shouldn’t be hunting. Applies double to “big game hunters” like Uday and Qusay.
debbie
@Schlemazel:
Agreed. And also if the gun goes off accidentally.
Matt McIrvin
@Schlemazel: I know jack squat about guns or hunting (I get my venison from my father-in-law, who usually uses a bow and arrow) and I see a lot of confusing back-and-forth on this from people who claim to be experts. Does an AR-15 do any more damage to the meat than a typical hunting rifle?
My impression is that for hunting you want to do relatively massive organ damage to drop the target fast; hunting restrictions often specify a minimum muzzle energy for hunting various species, because not killing the animal quickly is considered cruel and wasteful.
Matt
As always with the GOP, every accusation is a confession.
Thoughtful David
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
Holy cow! Except for FedEx, the companies left are all near-pure grifts, one small notch above the Papa Doc goldbug and bitcoin grifts.
germy
Is UPS still in? They’re an ALEC company, so I wonder what their relationship to the gunz group is…
Gin & Tonic
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I mentioned that downstairs but it didn’t get much traction.
Kelly
@Adam L Silverman:
As usual you’ve given me something to think about for a while.
Gin & Tonic
@debbie: There are no accidents with firearms, only negligence.
Villago Delenda Est
@Matt McIrvin: The .223/5.56mm round used by an AR bounces around inside the body, making a mess of everything. Small entry wound, large exit wound. This is intentional to make a wounded enemy soldier a logistical burden on the enemy.
These are not pleasant weapons. At all.
Adam L Silverman
@Betty Cracker: She’s actually got more legislation in the pipeline that she wrote and that ignoramus Baxley submitted for this legislative session. Let’s see what fun they have planned.
First up a bill called Firearms:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/01048
CS/SB 1048: Firearms
GENERAL BILL by Judiciary ; Baxley ; (CO-INTRODUCERS) Stargel ; Steube
Firearms; Authorizing a church, a synagogue, or other religious institution to allow a concealed weapons or concealed firearms licensee to carry a concealed handgun in certain established physical places of worship under certain circumstances, etc.
Effective Date: Upon becoming a law
Last Action: 2/8/2018 Senate – Placed on 3rd reading
Then we’ve got a bill named School Safety:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/01236
SB 1236: School Safety
GENERAL BILL by Baxley ; (CO-INTRODUCERS) Steube
School Safety; Providing an exception to a prohibition on possessing firearms or other specified devices on school property or other specified areas for authorized concealed weapon or firearm licensees who are designated by school principals or district school superintendents; requiring district school boards to formulate and prescribe policies and procedures for active shooter and hostage situations; requiring a district school superintendent to provide specified agencies with certain strategy and activity recommendations to improve school safety and security, etc.
Effective Date: 7/1/2018
Last Action: 2/15/2018 Senate – On Committee agenda– Judiciary, 02/20/18, 4:00 pm, 110 Senate Office Building –Temporarily Postponed
Senate Committee References:
Judiciary (JU)
Education (ED)
Rules (RC)
His last bill, which was withdrawn, as the purpose is covered in the two above, was:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2018/00240
SB 240: Concealed Weapons and Firearms on Private School Property
GENERAL BILL by Baxley
Concealed Weapons and Firearms on Private School Property; Specifying that concealed weapon and concealed firearm licensees are not prohibited by specified laws from carrying such weapons or firearms on certain private school property, etc.
Effective Date: 7/1/2018
Last Action: 9/13/2017 Senate – Withdrawn prior to introduction -SJ 23
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
I was a member in the early 70’s, primarily because membership came with a life insurance policy if you died in a hunting accident. Used to get the stupid “American Rifleman” magazine every month & I started to notice a change in tone around 74-75. I quit in 1980 because they had gone full metal wingnut.
One of the really stupid features in every issue was “The Armed CItizen”, it was a page of ‘news clips’, all unverified & many unverifiable, of brave citizens protecting themselves from the dark hordes of evil loose in the land. I always wanted to have a matching page called “The Armed Moron” with verified stories of people killing themselves or others through stupidity or carelessness. There is a guy on Kos that sort of does this now & it is depressing because every week there are the same stories over & over with different people being shot and killed for no good reason
smintheus
@Matt McIrvin: Because they can’t hit a deer without spraying the woods with lead.
Sloane Ranger
@schrodingers_cat: There are similarities, although Corbyn really IS the leader of a major political party. Both talk about creating Utopia but are a bit short on practical, achievable steps to get there and long on magical thinking. I think Corbyn is a true believer though while I’ve seen it argued that Bernie is just an opportunist.
I shall probably waste my vote by voting Lib Dem next time. Not that it wasn’t wasted before. This constituency would elect a cockroach if it wore a blue (in US red) rosette.
Adam L Silverman
@Chip Daniels:
Almost all crime is committed by young men.
Adam L Silverman
@Sloane Ranger: There’s two separate issues here. The first is there are documented contacts between Corbyn and Soviet/Soviet allied intelligence services. The second are the accusations made by the MP that he was a full fledged active asset. As opposed to just a useful idiot and fellow traveller.
Timurid
@Matt McIrvin:
There are AR-15 variants in larger calibers more suitable for deer, etc. The AK-47 (7.62×39) is roughly equivalent to a .30-30 so it could be used as well. But there are also plenty of fixed magazine semiauto hunting rifles on the market. And no matter what you’re using, you’re not going to get more than 1 or 2 followup shots if you miss the first time, so having a 30-round magazine is pretty pointless.
smintheus
@Matt McIrvin: You want to kill a deer with a single shot to the heart. An ordinary hunting rifle does that perfectly. You don’t want or need more velocity. The rule among my friends who hunt is you don’t take a shot unless you are sure you’ll kill the deer immediately.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Was Paul Manafort around?
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Dad is mad that the soul-stirring speech that he wrote was denied its rightful airing on national teevee, because it would have changed everything and saved guns forever. The only reason CNN refused to allow it is because they’re afraid of the truth, so it was A-OK for him to doctor the emails to show what he knew CNN was really thinking when they refused.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Adam L Silverman: True for violent crime, street crime. But Trump and his buddies show that for the really high dollar crime, you need some old white guys.
Schlemazel
@Matt McIrvin:
the .223 is specifically designed to rotate around its axis a tiny amount in flight. When it its something this instability cause it to “tumble” (sorry I lack better descriptions) that makes a very nasty wound. My understanding was that it was a response to the 7.62×39 round used in the AK 47 that also causes nasty wounds. When the Soviets would not agree to change their round the US came up with one of its own.
Now a semi-auto rifle is common for hunting but they use ‘normal’ rounds that kill cleanly without all the damage.
Cheryl Rofer
@Cheryl Rofer:
@Adam L Silverman:
Huh.
Timurid
@schrodingers_cat: I do the Mughal era (hence the handle). I’ll go ahead and out myself (not that I haven’t already posted enough hints here that anyone could dox me by spending 5 minutes on Google).
No Drought No More
Welcome aboard, mate! Better late than never.
“That’s reflective of the stupidity, the ignorance and the a-hole-ishness … that exists inside the [republican party,” [Michael Steele] said [today].
I had taken that insight to heart by the end of 1969. That is, long before the 2003 Bush-Cheney plot to war turned my unvarnished contempt of the GOP into hate.
I had been taught to do so by The Best republicans of their generation; that is, by Richard Nixon and the once and future cipher, Spiro Agnew (and not necessarily in that order, either). That’s all Americans that despised the GOP fucks back then have been doing ever since, too. We’ve simply acknowledged and returned their contempt in equal measure, from then till now. For that reason, some of us might be forgiven for feeling the political tide that has begun to turn in the era of Trump is a case of Americans beginning to have finally wised the fuck up.
Kelly
@smintheus:
Would be nice to begin limiting the scattering of toxic lead around the woods. If lead alternatives cost a bit more all the better. When I hunted in my youth I went thru about 40 rounds a year mostly on some early season target shooting. One of the reasons most private timberlands are closed to the public now is morons shooting hundreds of rounds into valuable trees and leaving piles of shot up trash. TV were popular targets after the HD broadcast transition.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Baud:
The GOP has sucked since Lincoln slumped over dead in his box in Ford’s Theatre, with only a few bright spots afterwards, up until the mid-20th century or so.
woodrowfan
@Baud: which Bio? I strongly recommend Hamby’s “Man of the People”
Schlemazel
@Matt McIrvin:
Here is a decent article though I have some nits to pick. For instance, comparing a handgun to a long gun it silly. A .22 from a rifle will penetrate most ‘bullet-proof’ vests because of its velocity, a .45 from a handgun will not.
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/
Kayla Rudbek
@Adam L Silverman: any ideas on who organized this?
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Whoever it was had close ties to Richard Nixon and the Republican Party. Bank on it.
Aleta
@Another Scott:
A couple of people in Florida law enforcement have said (as I understood it) that even if the Nov ’17 and January ’18 tips had been reported up to higher levels, Florida law would have prevented them from taking his guns. (Not sure if surveillance would have been possible, but that gets into resource allocation.)
Critics are also ignoring underfunding of social services and years of budget cuts.
Aimai
@Timurid: your book is 160 dollars hardback? Im impressed!
Bobby Thomson
The UK does not require “actual malice” to defame a public figure.
That’s not a good thing.
rikyrah
I am glad that the father is being exposed in real time. No better for him.
rikyrah
These are kids that grew up in the Obama Administration. You don’t think that they notice the difference now that Dolt45 is in?
Sloane Ranger
@Adam L Silverman: I think the Soviets and/or their allies may have sounded him out as they probably did with all left wing politicians but I don’t think he ever wittingly or unwittingly worked for or with them. As I understand it, Corbyn is closer to Trotsky than Stalin in his political positions and they don’t tend to make happy bedfellows.
Gin & Tonic
@Aimai: Academic book publishing and armed robbery are not that far apart.
Amir Khalid
@? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?:
Per Wikipedia, Lincoln was in a coma for nine hours after the shooting, and only died the next morning.
Brachiator
The BBC satire program and podcast, The News Quiz, had fun with the Corbyn nonsense.
Everyone is attributing this outbreak of conservative fake news to panic that Labour might win the next round of elections.
Corner Stone
@smintheus:
Your friends are either ninjas or never pull the trigger then.
Schlemazel
I know it is late in the thread, which I had remembered this earlier.
https://imgur.com/5v1ch
It shows how traffic deaths hae gone down since safety became required & nobody evey whined “The government is taking my car!!”
Mnemosyne
@Bobby Thomson:
After seeing Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt demolish Holocaust denier David Irving in court during his libel suit, I disagree. Lots.
sdhays
@Betty Cracker: I’m for a UK-style ban for everyone, but I just have to say I find it kind of unseemly how easy it is to get people to agree that 18 year olds are too young drink alcohol (and I say that as someone who personally doesn’t drink alcohol – I just never developed a taste for the stuff) and now they’re too young to own a gun themselves, but they’re adult enough to decide they want to serve in our war machine or to be drafted. There’s something seriously f*cked up about that.
If 18-20 year olds are more likely to be violent or irresponsible with guns, then they shouldn’t be anywhere near the military either. Of course, we have enough problems with military recruitment, so that might cause us to have back off from some wars certain people want other people to fight, so…
Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)
@Kelly:
Heh…back in the 1980s when I was a bartender, the owner was throwing out several cases of skunky beer (Sterling) and I asked if I could have them. He said sure, but asked why.
I told him that shaken up they made great reactive targets for plinking at with a 22 pistol. ?
Matt McIrvin
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve always assumed the time was just ripe–there was a cultural reaction to new civil-rights legislation, to the loss of the Vietnam War, and to rising crime and the Sixties counterculture, that just made it possible for revolutionary Bircher-level right-wing lunacy to get mainstream traction across all these organizations. Right-of-center white guys were mad as hell and driven past the point of being really conservative. Nixon going down might have been the proximate trigger.
Aleta
@Thoughtful David: Amazon P, Apple TV and some other places are still carrying their political programming channel. It’s said to include extremist screaming of fabricated threats. As well as their calls to arms and action, which sound like actual threats sometimes. Those shows are also on youtube of course.
smintheus
@Corner Stone: Neither. When they kill a deer in my woods, it’s always with a single shot.
Matt McIrvin
@Schlemazel: People in fact did whine “the government is taking my car” quite a lot. Car guys were completely pissed off over the new safety and emissions regulations in the 1960s and 1970s. There are people to this day who get their catalytic converters removed because they’re wingnuts.
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: Yeah, the house across the street from the theater where he died is a tourist attraction, or was.
Doug R
@schrodingers_cat:
4. Slash banking regulations and/or the budget for the agency looking out for consumers:
Aleta
@Schlemazel: I’d introduce you to my ultra libertarian relatives who whined themselves purple over all speed laws and seat belts and mc helmets and winter salt on the roads. But sadly for them they both died before the Koch revolution came to fruit. May the same fate befall those who’re cheering for it now.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Yes. He, Stone, Abramson, Atwater, Rove, etc were just transitioning from their Young Republican days into being actual GOP operatives.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Yep. Their running buddies including Atwater and Abramson. And they hung out with Roy Cohn and his other protege. Some guy named Trump.
artem1s
@Betty Cracker:
perfect! when I was in grad school, smoking was not allowed in the classrooms but was allowed in the hallways and studios. I got addicted because going on a smoking break was an acceptable excuse for getting out of critics in painting class. took me decades to get to ‘ex-smoking’ status. But as every ex-smoker knows, you never really kick it. I’m still surprised when completely out of the blue that urge hits me. It can be the littlest thing, like a certain smell or the way the sunlight is hitting a sidewalk. I still avoid going into gas stations and convenient stores unless I have to. Just too many associations. It’s the damned-est thing. Like there is this other entire human hiding inside of me with completely different memories and life experiences, who might take over at any moment.
I was so spectacularly happy when smoking was finally banned in public places. I knew that it would be the only way that some people could really quit. I was years into the continual process of quitting by that time, but it meant I could finally go to a bar or restaurant again without the worry of backsliding.
Doug R
@Aleta:
Whaaaaat?
Adam L Silverman
@Kayla Rudbek: No I do not. I have some suspicions that I’m not going to share publicly because it is all complete guesswork.
BellyCat
@Schlemazel:
Works exactly like this for motorcycles, where rates are closely tied to performance.
Brachiator
@Schlemazel:
Great chart. And the text box indicates that it wasn’t just one thing that helped, but many responses to government mandates, including highway improvements as well as changes to automobiles.
Adam L Silverman
@Timurid: It is a well done book.
I was Nathan Katz’s first MA student when he started the program at FIU.
Kelly
@Matt McIrvin:
I had a neighbor that did that to his wife’s car which never ran properly afterwards. Perhaps something to do with exhaust tuning. He also ran his diesel pickup on untaxed off road diesel and vegetable oil.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
I was going to suggest that Chip would be better off taking out the “mostly young” bit. As you say the age range is all over the map when looking at the overall picture.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: In fact some of the hardbacks can be used as blunt objects for commission of an armed robbery.
Brachiator
@Aleta:
Two things I never understand about libertarians. One is how they insist on standing on principle when reality contradicts them.
And two, their twaddle about the individual even though they live in society which, you know, includes other people.
Another Scott
@Schlemazel: There’s NRA-endorsed liability insurance already. $200/yr for $1 Million coverage. $4 a week doesn’t seem like it’s enough to make a dent in the problem, or be a deterrent on ownership.
State (and/or federal) licensing and/or significant taxes is probably a more sensible way to weed people out that shouldn’t have guns, and that’s something they’ll fight to the end to prevent (at least as long as the NRA has leadership like LaPierre).
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@Another Scott:
The irony of voluntary insurance like that is that the people who buy it are rarely the people who end up with a claim.
If insurance was mandatory, I doubt the price would stay as low because there would be a lot more claims.
Ruckus
@Schlemazel:
How do you get the insurance companies to write this insurance? Do they have the numbers crunched to see how much the rates would be? How many companies would be willing to write policies for something whose sole purpose is killing? Would the NRA just open an insurance company for gun insurance? They obviously have money, legally gotten or not.
gene108
@Schlemazel:
The NRA also helped with the 1968 gun law, passed in response to Bobby Kennedy’s assassination.
This is why true gun rights advocates support groups like the Gun Owners of America, and other fringier groups, and not liberal squishes like the NRA.
Yes, there are thousands of Americans, who view the NRA as sell outs and want even more hardline gun rights groups.
Corner Stone
@smintheus:
I don’t know your friends, I am sure they are all quite the accomplished marksmen. My contention with your previous statement was use of the word “immediately”. The only way to reliably do that, and even then it’s not 100%, is a neck shot. That is a higher risk shot unless you are consistently under 100yds with a scoped rifle. There’s a reason you stay on stand and take good landmarks after you shoot something. And it’s because deer have been known to run up to a quarter mile at full speed even after being shot in the heart with a high powered rifle. It’s common practice to give them some time to collapse, so you’ll need to have a certain idea where to start looking for a blood trail.
Every hunter I have personally been acquainted with desires to take the animal with no lingering suffering (beyond the initial strike, of course). But those same hunters have sometimes spent hours tracking their kill because 1)they don’t want to waste anything and 2)the animal may need to be put down – even after a primary excellent shot.
Another Scott
@Timurid: Neat. Thanks for the pointer.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
On the “significant tax” thing. I don’t know. How much do gun nuts spend on weapons?
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
Do you think they are hunting for food?
Wanna bet they are hunting to kill anything that moves? It’s that power they want, not the food value. It takes a little skill to kill a deer with one shot and not ruin a lot of meat. It takes none if all you want to do is have dead deer. It’s not hunting, it’s practice.
NotMax
@smintheus
And with ammunition which is not designed to frappé living tissue.
Aleta
@smintheus: As I’m sure you know, the excuse hunters give for their assault rifles is what Matt said about less cruel. Mere coincidence that some of those folks otherwise wouldn’t hit a thing except a little bark. This makes it extra dangerous that they’re in the woods with any weapon.
(It’s also true that all hunters, even super skilled, traditional ones, fail at times at the “immediately” part or the single shot you mention. The difference is that the honorable ones then track the animal or at least try. The bad hunters and the big weapon ones don’t care and can’t track. They just go for another.)
Ladyraxterinok
@gene108: And remember tbe success of anti smoking campaign and eliminating cigarette ads from tv.
It’s interesting to look at 70s or so begining German texts. There’s the necessay phrase for asking for a light for your cigarette ‘Haben Sie Feuer?’ (literally ‘do you have fire? This phrase cracked me up when I first saw it.)
Another Scott
@Aleta: Yup.
“We have to keep the mentally ill from getting guns!!11”
Isn’t anyone who wants to kill people “mentally ill” to some extent? Normal people don’t have – and act on – murderous rage, even if they’re not previously diagnosed as being sociopathic.
What about the people who are just normal angry teenagers who suddenly lash out? What about people who get mad at coworkers and suddenly lash out?
Everyone gets angry. Everyone has trouble coping sometimes. Lots and lots of people end up in situations in which they see no way out.
But not everyone grabs a semiautomatic rifle and dozens or hundreds of rounds and decides to try to kill as many people as possible.
“Mental illness” treatment isn’t the issue. The issue is the far too easily availability of weapons of war.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ladyraxterinok
@lgerard: Made it to some of us in Houston in 60-61.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I’ll throw out a name. Paul Manafort.
Read the story in the Atlantic that someone here linked to. He was making his young stones about then and I wouldn’t put anything past him.
Frankensteinbeck
@Adam L Silverman:
Or reflects a strong statistical trend. No conspiracy moved the voters, just like no conspiracy was necessary for White America to go completely batshit when Obama was elected, it’s sufficient explanation that those organizations changed because the mood of the American population changed. By the time 1980 hit, the racial backlash had hit, and white Americans were ready to tell liberal n-lovers to fuck off. Liberal became a dirty word, because that’s what America was ready for. Evangelicals certainly didn’t need taking over. They were royally pissed about desegregation, and had been jockeying for a position that would let them sound righteous while working to hurt black people. They found it in abortion and became a political movement.
Ladyraxterinok
@Betty Cracker: Remember how surprised I was in the early 80s walking into a classroom at a large Midwestern state school and NOT amelling any smoke. Smoke permeated clasrooms at my 57-61 ubdergrad and 61-65 grad schools. And profs and TAs smoked while teaching.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Chris Rock would like to tell you about his $5,000 bullets (4:55).
The “tax stamp” for full auto machine guns is (and has been) $200/yr (unless it changed last I looked). But the feds can (apparently) come and inspect your weapons anytime they want if you’ve got one.
There are lots and lots of ways to skin this cat.
Personally, I like the idea of mandatory liability insurance, licensing, trigger locks, approval by the local police and the ATF, no more auto or semi-auto guns for anyone, guns must be kept in registered establishments (gun ranges, etc.) and never at home, making the NRA gun-handling rules the law (with severe punishment for “accidents”), and all the rest. Periodic, well-funded, buybacks. And social recognition that guns that are weapons of war are horrible tools, not phallic toys. All of it. I don’t think any one thing on its own will make much of a dent in the 300M or so guns out there.
There’s lots that can and should be done. We can discuss the details – I don’t have any particular hill to die on there, as long as we start interpreting the 2nd Amendment sensibly and regulating guns and gun ownership sensibly with the goal of reducing the number (and deadliness) of guns in public circulation.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@sdhays:
At 17 the military all sounds manly and fun. At 21 it all sounds deadly and final. A lot of guys become far more military adverse the closer they get to 21. However considering the job prospects for a non college educated 20 yr old, the pay doesn’t seem all that bad. There is a guy at work who joined the NG a while back, he’s being deployed soon and we talked the other day, when he’s deployed he will make, as an E4 over $4800/month with no where to spend it. He can’t come close to that at home, where I’d bet he’s lucky to make around a third of that. And if he’s on full time active duty in the states he makes around $2400/month. There are a lot of guys and girls in that monetary place.
Ladyraxterinok
@Kelly: @debbie: In early 80s I was told this is the case in Switzerland. Everyone serves 2yrs in military then keeps uniform and weapon at home
and must pass annual shooting test to be considered part of on-call military. If gun is stolen and used in crime, owner is liable because didn’t store it safely. This is what I recall Swiss relatives telling me.
Brachiator
@Schlemazel:
It would seem more than fair to give the NRA credit fir this and to demand that they live up to the example they set by using their expertise to support new gun laws.
NotMax
@Ladyraxterinok
Was only a few years ago that part of a story about a foreign military pilot (either defecting or seeking asylum, don’t rightly recall which) who unexpectedly flew his plane into Swiss air space (and landed) included the factoid that the French Air Force had to be contacted and sent aloft because when the Swiss Air Force was called the answer was a recorded message that they were closed and to call back during business hours.
Mnemosyne
@Ladyraxterinok:
It came up on Facebook the other day — by gun nuts, of course. A 5-second Google revealed that the Swiss government tightly controls all private gun sales and licensing and can yank your license, confiscate all of your guns, and permanently ban you from buying more based solely on a doctor or psychiatrist saying you seem a little off-balance.
They apparently had a notorious mass shooting in the early 2000s by a guy who used his militia weapon and ammunition, so now all militia ammunition is locked up in a central location in each town.
As I said on Facebook, if gun nuts will accept the same ownership restrictions and regulations that the Swiss do, I’ll be happy to let them keep their guns. Funny, none of them took me up on it. ?
woodrowfan
treat them like cars.
1. training by professionals licensed and inspected by the state required before operating.
2. registered with the state with required reporting for theft. Each individual gun must carry a unique ID number (like the VIN)
3. insured including insuring others hurt by my misuse.
4. age limits (which also means taking away from those no longer mentally sharp enough to handle as well as a minimum age)
5. heavy penalties for careless use and misuse including denying your further possession or use as well as significant jail-time.
6. limits of what you can own and use. I can’t drive a tank around my neighborhood, why should I have an AR-whatever??
7. tax what you need to operate them to pay for related services (we tax gas and tires for roads, so tax bullets for registration expenses and medical costs for gun-related injuries)
8. modified examples must still meet minimum standards (i.e. be “street legal”)
9. ban their use in inappropriate areas. I can’t drive my car in certain spots. So I shouldn’t be able to carry a gun into certain spots. leave the definition of “appropriate” to individual communities.
10. restrict some recreational uses to special locations away from the general public. I can’t take my antique muscle car drag-racing on my neighborhood streets, I have to use a racetrack. So let me go target-shooting in specific appropriate target ranges only.
11. special license for antiques for collectors, which includes limiting their use to shows and demonstrations. If I have antique plates on my car I can only drive it so many miles a year, generally to shows and rallies.
12. examples in poor condition must be fixed, stored away, or scrapped.
Ladyraxterinok
@Kelly: @debbie: In early 80s I was told this is the case in Switzerland. Everyone serves 2yrs in military then keeps uniform and weapon at home
and must pass annual shooting test to be considered part of on-call military. If gun is stolen and used in crime, owner is liable because didn’t store it safely. This is what I recall Swiss relatives telling me.@
Adam L Silverman: Present head of main SBC Sseminary in Nashville, Al Mohler, greatly benefitted from the socalled SBC ‘conservative resurgence,’ he’s been making the SBC over to his liking – demanding ‘young earth creationism’ be a necessary belief to be a Xian, firing all female profs at Southern Seminary (because women are crezted by god to be submissive and there cannot teach male students), training seminary students to believe the Calvinist interpretation of christian doctrine and then go forth to change beliefs of congrations and boards.
Paige Patterson, a leader in the SBC takeover and now .president of the SBC seiminary, and his wife Dorothy now have their pictures in stained glass window at the seminsry’s chapel.
smintheus
@Corner Stone: Well, I don’t oversee their hunting but they tell me that a deer properly shot will stagger to the ground after no more than a few steps. They have no respect for hunters who have to track their kills.
Jager
@Villago Delenda Est: I had an old Army Sgt tell me, “the only time you want to use this thing is if you can smell the bastards breath”
Corner Stone
@smintheus: They sound like a bunch of poseurs who have killed many a brush buck. But, wevs, not really much to discuss.
Ladyraxterinok
@Mnemosyne: My 1st and 2nd yr German students at the college where I taught went tota lly crazy over his comments. Several followed the daily doings online. One young man reported back to the class about each new insane claim of his reported.
Timurid
@Adam L Silverman:
You’re telling me you actually read that thing? :’O
RobNYNY
@Schlemazel: By “hunt,” some people mean “kill for fun, not for food.” Big game hunting, for example.
fuckwit
@debbie: perfect. follow the money. choke them off and kill them that way. in america, money talks, and bullshit walks, pressure visa, mc, and cap one to refuse to take blood money
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
Yes, indeed. There are, have always been, people in America who hate Democracy because they want to be Lord and Master over everyone. They become rich, and try to act as if they are Lord and Master, and sometimes get arrested for the horrible things they tried to do.
I believe a small group of those people, anti-democracy elites, are behind the move to the right of our institutions. Whenever a law is passed that reduces freedom, the ability of people to vote and win elections, there they are, invisible but effective.
In fact the anti-semitic conspiracies, the bankers controlled by Jews, the belief that Jews are lurking behind many movements around the world, I believe there is truth there. It just isn’t the Jews, it is those who hate the Jews, the fascists projecting their conspiracy onto other targeted groups.
Can the same conspiracy have taken over the former Soviet Block that is now attempting to take control of the Free World? Of course it can !! Russia isn’t even as socialist as Sweden now. But at least we’re still able to fight for our American way of life!
We just need to overcome the Russo-Republican fascists, the theocratic christo-fascists, the financial fascists, um, who else did you mention, Adam, them too. All of the fascists!
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
“He, Stone, Abramson, Atwater, Rove, etc were just transitioning from their Young Republican days into being actual GOP operatives.”
Yes, Manafort and these guys were in the front lines of the fascist wave that took over the Russ-Republican party, half of the Lutheran Church, the NRA, etc. But they were far and away from the ringleaders, the creators of the grand conspiracy, the uber-fascists. People like the Hunts, Kochs, and others of that ilk…
Fabulously wealthy and utterly immoral~!!!
smintheus
@Corner Stone: The opposite of poseurs; they’ve been hunting here for decades for food. They just don’t shoot recklessly.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know, but if there is I I’m betting she would be called a “hag” within about half a second.
Corner Stone
@smintheus: No hunter I personally know does either. If your friends claim they’ve never had a deer jump on them and end up over a hill, or in a slough*, or anywhere but within sight of where they were shot then I don’t really care to hear any more garbage about them. Because it’s bullshit.
ETA, slough in this instance means a ditch, or low depression in landscape that is not easily seen from some viewpoints.
thalarctosMaritimus
@Doug R: I’m guessing either a personal judgment on NRA TV, or else, what emerged when voice reco got through with it.
Bill
So this is happening, right down the road. School district is going to close the nearby school for the day and bring the kids to the other schools.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/375075-pa-church-invites-couples-to-bring-ar-15s-to-church-for
http://wnep.com/2018/02/23/school-students-being-moved-due-to-controversial-church-ceremony/
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: Wikipedia has a history with references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(epithet)
It seems to have been used sporadically in a non-pejorative way before the 1940s, but Harold Stassen (who at the time was Willkie’s campaign manager) explicitly justified refusing to say “Democratic” as a slam on the practices of Democratic Party city bosses, and it seems to have caught on more generally as an epithet in the late ’40s and ’50s.
Ang
De-lurking to say that if FedEx won’t renounce the NRA on their own, maybe pressure from a major customer will help. I just emailed Amazon customer service asking if there’s a way to assure that none of my purchases are shipped FedEx as long as they continue to support the NRA, and that if there isn’t, that I’ll be less willing to make future purchases that could possibly support a corporation that gives discounts to a terrorist organization. It’s a small step, but I’m hoping I’m not the only one contacting them.
Melinda Hoehn
@Adam L Silverman: Do you mind if I quote you elsewhere?
Adam L Silverman
@Melinda Hoehn: Nope. Email me if you want my professional bio in case anyone asks who I am and why should they care.
Melinda Hoehn
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you.
Pete Johnson
@Brachiator: @Brachiator: @Brachiator: @Brachiator: Libertarianism is like Leninism: a fascinating, internally consistent political theory with some good underlying points that, regrettably, makes prescriptions about how to run human society that can only work if we replace real messy human beings with frictionless spherical humanoids of uniform density (because it relies on simplifying assumptions about human behavior which are unfortunately wrong).