I was going to wait until I’d had a chance to see “Black Panther” myself before doing a post on it, but it’s looking like that’s not going to happen this week, and as valued commenter Mnemosyne pointed it, the movie is a hot topic now. How hot is the movie? Esteemed commenter lamh36 points us to a Variety piece with some facts and figures:
“Black Panther,” directed by Ryan Coogler, has caught on with moviegoers this month in a way that few other titles have in Hollywood’s recent history — blowing past last month’s tracking that showed it would open in the $100 million-to-$120 million range.
It’s notched an A+ Cinemascore, only the second Marvel film to do so (after “The Avengers”), and has dazzled critics with a 97% “fresh” score on Rotten Tomatoes. The film also stars Michael B. Jordan, Lupita Nyong’o, Danai Gurira, Martin Freeman, Daniel Kaluuya, and Letitia Wright. “Black Panther” has also grossed $304 million internationally.
lamh36 also recommends this review of “Black Panther” by Awesomely Luvvie. I was going to do an excerpt of it, but I quickly realized that’s not possible without encountering spoilers before I’ve seen the movie, so I’ll just drop a link here.
So, you remember the drill: Non-spoiler discussion about the movie (or any other topic — it’s an open thread) can take place in the regular comments section below. To reach a hidden spoiler discussion zone, click the photo at the top of the page (in desktop mode if you’re on a mobile device). That will take you to a secret thread (title: Black Panther Spoilers Thread) where you can freely discuss the movie without worrying about spoiling it for those who haven’t seen it yet.
Have fun!
Image courtesy of @KFoleyFL on Twitter, by way of Dr. Silverman here.
Miss Bianca
Wah! Wanna see this movie NOW! And it looks like to do that, I’ll have to drive a couple hours to the big city! POUT.
Mary G
@Miss Bianca: It’s worth it. I haven’t gone to a movie in the theater since Harry Potter 5. I went Sunday to Black Panther and I want to go back.
Mnemosyne
Thanks, Betty!
Lapassionara
I am glad the movie is doing well. It will be a while before I can go see it.
I spent the last two days driving across Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and South Carolina, and my goodness, there are lots of religious radio stations.
For some reason, I started thinking about early Bob Dylan, and how prophetic his music was and how it captured the zeitgeist. The Times were “a changin” for sure, and we all knew it.
What I wonder is if there is a Bob Dylan for this age. Who is capturing the zeitgeist today, or is the zeitgeist too effed to be express in music.
Mnemosyne
Note for peeps on mobile devices: you may need to switch from “Mobile” to “Desktop” mode to see the spoilers thread.
Steeplejack
“Does this spoiler make my ass look fat?”
Miss Bianca
@Mary G: btw, Mary G, could you please send that link about Black Panther spurring all those black cat adoptions to AL to front page it, or re-post it here? I just thought that was so cute!
Major Major Major Major
Open thread?
Somebody who just got a 30-day mute from me posted a meme on Facebook saying “all these kids are moved enough to walk out for gun control. But can’t be bothered to stand up for the weird kid in class getting bullied and fucked with daily.”
The only reason she didn’t get a permanent mute/unfollow is because it’s way out of character for her, but ugh, wtf.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: One of your leftier-than-thou progressive BS worshiping friends?
germy
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: Dude, that’s f’d up. I mean, way to go out of your way to miss the point, lady.
Naedre
Strangely, I didn’t LOVE it when i saw it. I just liked it. I felt like the action sequences were weak except the car sequence in SK. I also felt like T’Challa was more interesting in Civil War, and was strangely muted in his own movie.
However, the all the female characters were compelling, the villain was interesting, and there were some genuinely deep topics that were explored pretty well for a 2 hour movie. Honestly, I wish the action had been reduced or cut entirely, in favor of spending more time on the political drama and social commentary. I want to see it again, and see if I enjoy it more the second time around.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, I can’t get to it from the mobile version on Android/Chrome. But not a problem for me, since I haven’t seen the movie yet. Seriously thinking about hitting a matinee this week.
germy
There’s a nice breakdown of the casino fight scene on youtube, with Ryan Coogler pointing out details I missed the first time. He demonstrates how much thought went into every detail, from the color of their clothes to how they got the camera from the ground floor to the balcony in one swoop.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: I would be beyond disappointed if anyone I cared about or even thought highly of said something like that.
On a happier note, the vet called to say that my little Henry made it through surgery and is doing really well. Huge sigh of relief from me. He comes home tomorrow afternoon at 4. At that point, the 6-10 weeks of being in the crate commences. Darn vet, he is giving me sedatives for Henry if he needs them but nothing for me! :-)
Rob Lll
Partner and I saw Black Panther this weekend at the Chinese Theatre in Hollywood — our go-to venue for blockbuster movies. We both loved it.
It accomplished something I haven’t experienced in a commercial movie in years, maybe even decades — taking me into a completely new and coherent visual universe We’ve never seen this world in mainstream cinema before and the production design here is just stunning (down to Wakanda having its own alphabet!).
Mary G
@Miss Bianca: Here is a copy & paste of the whole post on Tumblr, because if you can embed them like Twitter, I don’t know how. Turns out the writer lives in your state!
ETA: That’s from gallusrostromegalus on Tumblr.
WaterGirl
@germy: I watched that, even without having seen the movie. No wonder WAKANDA seems so real to everyone; he clearly thinks through all this quite deeply and loves that world and its characters.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: she mostly posts BLM stuff.
@WaterGirl: oh hooray!
germy
Now that Jared’s security clearance is “downgraded” how will he fix Mexico/the Middle East/etc.?
VFX Lurker
Saw it. Loved it. Wanna see it again.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: with the cloud.
Lapassionara
@Major Major Major Major: Did she give a specific example of one of the Parkland teens failing to stand up when someone was getting bullied? Or is she just making something up?
ruemara
It’s an amazing movie and if you haven’t seen it, go see it. Twice. So much to see and digest, both visually and via story.
@VFX Lurker: I’m going again. and I’m reading that fight breakdown. I have an action script I want to do this summer and I need all the help I can get. Plus I really need to comprehend how they do so much with the VFX. It’s not that I can’t mentally comprehend what needs VFX, I just don’t know how to put the script, the previs and the final together.
@Lapassionara: They’re saying the shooter was bullied. Let’s ignore his abusive past and pretend he was a victim.
germy
I love the actual black panthers in the ancestral scene. I’m sure they were computer generated, but I loved how they silently watched the actors as the scene unfolded.
It was also very moving to see Kilmonger’s ancestral scene, taking place in the Compton projects. Father asks the child why he isn’t crying and he replies “Everyone dies here” but then we see him as an adult, with a tear on his face.
I was impressed with the script; how everything came together. All the plot elements worked, rather than being a confusing mess (cough cough Batman V Superman).
Major Major Major Major
@Lapassionara: It was somebody else’s meme, which conveniently means you don’t have to show your work.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: BLM stuff in a good way, or in an all lives matter kind of way.
NotMax
Movie theaters here and me don’t play well together (it’s a health thing). Maybe will try to watch it after it becomes available to do so at home. If so, it will be the first made for big screen Marvel super-hero movie I’ve seen.
Meanwhile am experiencing it vicariously through youse guys.
@germy
Exactly as knowledgeably, adeptly and successfully as before.
:)
guachi
Overall I thought the movie was good, not great. The poor CGI at the end was a real failure, I think. It’s another consistently fun entry from Marvel, which has only really two missteps, I think – Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk – and those are movies are two and three in the Marvel Universe.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major: Does your friend often complain about moose and squirrel?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I’ve been noticing even before Obama was elected the heroic president who saves us all in a movie is typically played with by black actor. Now it seems to be spreading to action heroes. Is disgust with mediocre white guys and their fake heroics turned audiences off to white male heroes so only a black man has the sincerity to believably play one now?
If so, oh the irony.
debbie
I love that it’s breaking records worldwide!
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: Extremely pro-BLM.
@Mike J: Heh.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Not to mention it’s untrue.
Aleta
@Major Major Major Major: At least one of the activist kids has spoken out against bullying and ridicule.
Betty Cracker
@Lapassionara: The Parkland teen who gave the amazing “We Call BS” speech the weekend after the shootings, Emma Gonzalez, alluded to criticism about how Cruz was treated by his classmates. She quotes Trump’s tweet in the excerpt below:
I don’t know if Cruz was bullied or not, but it sure sounds like the other kids were afraid of him.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@germy: A Hatch Act violation (which governs politicking on the taxpayers’ dime)? And this is the first one they could come up with? Hell, this administration has been a walking Hatch Act violation, along with violations of the Emoluments Clause and every conflict-of-interest rule ever written, since Day One.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: Sure, I figured that went without saying.
Betty Cracker
@germy: Will the NYT devote as many resources to endlessly speculating how the dozens of people who were handling the most sensitive information on the planet without security clearances were a bigger threat to national security than Hillary Clinton’s private email server? Haha, no!
Matt McIrvin
@Naedre:
I noticed that too, but I think it does make sense. In Civil War, though he’s not at home, T’Challa is actually more in his element–he’s been knocked for a loop by his father being killed but he’s clearly been superheroing for some time. In Black Panther, he’s trying to act as king for the first time, and gets hit with an unexpected succession crisis. He’s in a bit over his head.
I liked that this was an ensemble piece to a much greater degree than its title would imply. My wife complained, correctly, that huge science/engineering R&D projects aren’t plausibly done by a lone genius, but that applies equally well to Tony Stark–it’s the way they do things in the comics.
Brachiator
The Black Panther demographics are interesting. From Hollywood Reporter, etc, for the most recent period
ruemara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: *looks at you*
Steeplejack
@germy:
Jesus, take it to the spoiler subthread. People who haven’t seen the movie yet probably don’t want to hear any details, even if you’ve deemed them non-spoilery.
Brachiator
@guachi:
There’s a very good article here on the CGI problems with Black Panther and other movies.
A couple of things, I think. Special effects companies are pushed to the wall to deliver on a tight schedule and unfortunately Marvel and other movies seem to have release dates set without regard to the time needed to really deliver good effects. Here, the studios figure that fans will settle for good enough effects.
clay
@Lapassionara: I don’t think that there’s going to be One Artist that will speak for a generation like Dylan did. The music scene is too fractured today. But you’ll have voices for specific subcultures. A band like Radiohead can really capture the alienation of the modern middle class in a high-tech society. Eminem can portray the anger and bitterness of (forgive the term) poor white trash. Kendrick Lamar represents the voice of the young black man. Taylor Swift is the voice of empowered young women. Etc.
*You can probably tell my knowledge of popular music peaked about 10 years ago…
germy
Aleta
Depending on the school, if a kid is acting aggressively the school has to make a report by answering questions. Have his parents been informed. Was he being bullied. Has he been talked to, warned or getting counseling. Etc. End of report at some schools.
Bullying gives adults a reason to explain aggression or ignore it. I think Cruz knew this and at least once claimed bullying to get police to drop their attention.
Bullying wasn’t the reason he was a killer, but it seems to have muddied the waters. He seemed able to hide his nature, thoughts and mental illnesses behind excuses like his mother’s death, bullying, and gun rights. And was able to express his obsessions acceptably in the rifle club and because of the normalization of hate groups.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: I thought that was spoiler-ish, too, but figured that if you didn’t read all the way through Betty’s post up top that a person might not realize that this was spoiler-free and you had to click on the image to get the actual spoiler thread.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Glad you brought this up. For the last couple of weeks I’ve been wondering when (or whether) someone in the mainstream media’s “But her e-mails!” cohort would sort of run the numbers and calculate exactly when scores of employees in the White House without security clearances and at least one un-cleared person (Jared) seeing the PDB would overtake Hillary’s basement server as a threat to the nation.
piratedan
have to admit, the kids just going out there with NFTG and stating what has baldly been evident is really setting both the conservatives and the media that covers their collective asses in a tizzy. It’s getting to be apparent that we’re reaching a crescendo of events, as the “people” continually are calling this bullshit out the GOP goes even more draconian in regards to punishing those that “go along” (see. the State of Georgia and the Delta Air Lines controversy). At one point, a goodly portion of America is being asked to choose between the collective humping of the gun rights advocates and their kids and the NRA and their followers are slowly having it down on them that hey’re losing and if they lose this domino in the culture wars, what’s the next one? Christian Conservatism? Nepotism? Tax breaks for the Rich?
Nevermind those quaint notions about American sovereignty and ideals of FDR, these fuckers have never given a shit about those… its always been about protecting their own interests and whoever they can leverage to keep that power/control/wealth….
I’m been raised to believe that this is still the land of opportunity and that while bias exists (boy does it ever) you could still persevere and make it on your own through hard work and intrepidness, nowadays, I think that was essentially a line to keep us ever striving for the brass ring while those in power continue to milk those efforts for their own benefit. That mindset isn’t with our newer generation who believe that fighting for justice and equality and helping others is simply an inherent good and bringing down corruption is their birthright (yay for comic books!).
I wonder if the rich are evil enough to determine that continuing to move the goal posts will not be enough and what else they might resort to, because it appears to be where we’re heading if they want to stop this movement of empowered youth and women.
Matt McIrvin
@guachi: I was not that fond of Avengers: Age of Ultron or Thor: The Dark World, though both of them had their moments (the good characters in Age of Ultron were the robots, Ultron himself and the Vision).
I think this is one of the best MCU movies, maybe my second favorite after Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Best Marvel movie villain ever, and that includes even Alfred Molina as Doc Ock. (OK, the Ian McKellen Magneto may be even with him.)
The Panther vs. Panther fight scene in the mine at the end did look a bit too video-gamey, but I was willing to forgive that for a movie that was so visually interesting otherwise.
I want to live at M’Baku’s place.
NotMax
@Brachiator
Who the hell collects that data? And how? The idea of designated racial spotters at the door or of surreptitious photos of the audience being pored over is downright creepy.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: Having seen CGI develop from its infancy, I feel as if our standards have gotten incredibly high. 20 years ago, the worst CGI in this movie would have been jaw-dropping.
But, it’s true, there were a few moments particularly in the fight at the end when it didn’t look a lot better than an XBox cutscene.
Matt McIrvin
@WaterGirl: I didn’t understand the spoiler protocol either. If we feel it’s appropriate to delete any of the comments I’d posted earlier, the mods should feel free to do so.
NotMax
As it’s a mediacentric thread, fans of Happy Valley and/or Broadchurch – be on the lookout for Collateral, a similarly themed grim police detective BBC mini-series, arriving on Netflix March 9. trailer
Hermann Fegelein
I was alive during 1968 and before, and I am not watching that Black Panther movie. From everything I’ve seen, it is totally detached from historical reality.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax:
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
It’s still creepy. One goes to the movies to be entertained, not to be profiled.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: Thanks for that! I just added it to my Netflix list.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
That’s why they call it show business.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: I don’t imagine filling out one of these surveys is mandatory. For all I know it’s like a Nielsen thing.
Tenar Arha
@Major Major Major Major: how good a friend is she? How much thought & effort do you want to put in?
One thing I’ve noticed on Tumblr & Twitter is that there’s almost always a tipping point where a movement or a consensus is forming where “but whataboutism” starts to get activated. It seems to start in some from an honest & reasonable understanding that there are issues that are only going to be solved using interconnected solutions. But online it often just tips over into absurdity and derailment.
Anyway guess I’m trying to say that it seems like there’s a “natural phenomenon” of pointing out how things are interconnected, but some of that, we now know has been, was, and will still be encouraged by people who want infighting to make many movements less effective. Before you leave her in mute, try to find out where she got the meme from. Because there’s now a non zero chance that it’s Russian or right wing propaganda. If she’s a good enough friend, maybe remind her of that privately?
Major Major Major Major
@Tenar Arha: We aren’t that close. I’m pretty sure it came from some “don’t take our guns!” whataboutists, but she decided it raised an important point about bullying or something, even though what it’s actually saying is that these kids are worthless bandwagoneering starfuckers.
John Revolta
@Brachiator: It’s like the carpenters say: you can have it fast, you can have it good, and you can have it cheap.
Pick two.
Tenar Arha
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, with Baquet in charge, I doubt it. And I read the Bennet transcript that was reported on in Vanity Fair & HuffPo. I’ve reached significant levels of fuck’em.
The news side is losing out to the trolls in Opinion & the stenographers in Politics. I’m really beginning to wonder if this paper is worth saving. The NYT should be really really worried that I feel this way.
chopper
has tenguphule declared it the worst movie in history yet?
Major Major Major Major
@chopper: I mostly see him talk about pie nowadays.
Tenar Arha
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah. Mute, and see what happens.
SWTG we’ve all been traumatized for years by the GOP into conceding a point to make arguments “run smoothly” or something. Insisting that that’s not what we’re talking about, or even in addition pointing out that someone else is undercutting our own arguments, feels like we’re all trying to push that freaking boulder uphill.
WaterGirl
@John Revolta: Graphic designers where I used to work had t-shirts printed up with that on them. In a lovely design, of course.
They also created something – can’t recall what – with all the classic client responses on it. My favorite was “I liked it, but my secretary thinks you need to change this”.
Tenar Arha
As for Black Panther It’s even more visually stunning & unique than Thor: Ragnorok for a Marvel movie. Best inclusion of women as main characters & plot movers, by far, as in any Marvel movie. The acting is wonderful. It’s not John Wick levels of fight choreography, or that scene with Cap in the elevator in Winter Soldier, but there’s some amazing set pieces that will not disappoint. (You’ve seen parts of at least one/two in the trailers).
Rating: Will see this at least once more in the theater. Wiling to pay full price at night for even the IMAX.
NB: It is, without a doubt the most fic-able movie I’ve seen, and the most likely to be fought over because it’s so easy to slip into writing something accidentally offensive without a deeper understanding that f what Coogler was doing. IMHO Coogler put his stamp on this world, this country & these characters in a good way, like Ed Brubaker put on Bucky Barnes, or the Russos put on Steve Rogers in the movies (as opposed to FU Nick *spitting noises* Spencer).
ETA *Will go see…
maeve
Saw it last weekend in Juneau, Alaska. It was sold out the first weekend when I tried to see it and the theater was almost full this time. (Only showing on one screen here.)
Loved it – the costumes and sets are amazing. The number of interesting characters with their own motivations.
Saw it in 2D – I may go back and see it in 3D (I’ve never actually seen a modern 3D movie – I think the last one I saw was a revival of House of Wax. The original 1953 one with Vincent Price. I’d seen it on TV in 2D but sometime in the 70s there was a revival in theaters with 3D glasses. It explained the scenes with things like someone playing with a paddle-ball toy and having it shoot out at the audience. Anyway I’ve been meaning to go to a 3D movie just to see what its like.)
rachel
@Rob Lll: It accomplished something I haven’t experienced in a commercial movie in years, maybe even decades — taking me into a completely new and coherent visual universe We’ve never seen this world in mainstream cinema before and the production design here is just stunning (down to Wakanda having its own alphabet!).
Another subtle design element I noticed was Wakanda’s throne. If you look at close-up stills or the movie poster, you can see a sort of cross-hatching that suggests a woven texture, but the throne is made of metal. I think what they were aiming for was to use Widmanstätten patterns to suggest that the throne was carved out of the original vibranium meteor. The king of Wakanda sits in a chair of the most precious metal in the MCU’s world.
Seanly
@Matt McIrvin:
OMG, I went to see The Abyss when I was a senior in civil engineering with two buddies – a mechanical engineer & an electrical engineer. Even though we didn’t have much real-world experience, we laughed when the female protagonist talked about designing every aspect of the huge underwater base. All the lone genius stuff is BS – it breaks my suspension of disbelief more than superpowers or faster-than-light travel.
Hoping that I get to see Black Panther this weekend…
Mnemosyne
Not a spoiler — I was looking at the IMDb trivia and a reporter asked Martin Freeman what it was like to sometimes be the only non-Black actor on the set. His response was, “You think, ‘Right, so this is what black actors feel like all the time.’”
catclub
@guachi: I agree with this. I am very impressed and somewhat puzzled by how much money it is bringing in.
J R in WV
@Hermann Fegelein:
I was born in 1950, and we saw Black Panther yesterday, and both enjoyed it very much. You seem to not understand fiction at all. Fiction can bear no resemblance to historical reality whatsoever, or it can be carefully researched to follow historic event closely. Either way, things that NEVER happened can take place in fiction.
President Kennedy could have sneezed, the bullet missed, and he lived to save the world from an alien invasion. Perfectly valid fiction.
I think what you are expressing is that you can’t stand even the thought of black people being heroic and willing and able to save the world from poverty and misery. Your despicable reaction to a fantasy film you haven’t even seen shows your prejudice out loud. A real shame your person is so blighted by your racist hatred. Thanks for expressing it so clearly.
Mnemosyne
@catclub:
It’s a movie that has a very wide appeal beyond just the usual superhero crowd and is drawing record numbers of Black ticket buyers in addition to the usual Marvel crowd. Plus word has gotten out that it’s an interesting, thoughtful film that’s more about the characters than superheroics, so people who skipped the last few Marvel movies are showing up to check it out.
It’s the old Steve Jobs trick — give the audience what they didn’t even know they wanted until they saw it.