Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

I was promised a recession.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Let there be snark.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Peak wingnut was a lie.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: The Emperor Has No Clothes Brains

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: The Emperor Has No Clothes Brains

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  1. 1.

    JGabriel

    Josh Marshall via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Donald Trump: “If you don’t have retribution, if you are not going to do something very serious to these guys when they walk in they are going to keep walking in. They have to know when they walk in they are probably going to end up dead.”

    How many school shooters survive?

    Another way of thinking about this is that most school shooters intend to commit suicide by cop – but first, they just want to punish, or take with them, everyone who pissed them off.

  3. 3.

    JGabriel

    JGabriel (aka me):

    Another way of thinking about this is that most school shooters intend to commit suicide by cop – but first, they just want to punish, or take with them, everyone who pissed them off.

    The Florida MSD school shooter is pretty anomalous in this regard, since he actually took steps to escape the crime scene. I can’t think of any other school shooter who did.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Dolt 45 announces plan to “slash” national debt by selling of state of Washington to “highest bidder.” Film at 11.

  7. 7.

    Zinsky

    The man is a gutless, nutless coward. He would no more run (if he even could run) into a building with an active shooter than he would be faithful to any of his multiple wives. He ran from the draft, from his financial obligations and from the care of his children. There is no lower human being than Donald Trump.

  8. 8.

    Viva Bris Vegas

    @NotMax:

    Dolt 45 announces plan to “slash” national debt by selling of state of Washington to “highest bidder.” Film at 11.

    At the moment I suspect that the population of Seattle would underwrite any bid by British Colombia.

  10. 10.

    ThresherK

    Who will be the last media figure to notice that Trump is addled? Start writing your parody Bobo columns already.

    (My autospell wanted to make that bonobo. Don’t tempt me.)

  12. 12.

    raven

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Trump told radio host Howard Stern that avoiding sexually transmitted diseases was “my personal Vietnam.”

    “I feel like a great and very brave soldier,” Trump said.

  14. 14.

    Kay

    In a way it doesn’t matter. They’re not going to do anything about this “idea”. It’ll be up to school boards and superintendents and they don’t want it.
    It’s another dodge. More meaningless blather – strutting around and crowing about how tough they all are.

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Wag:

    The only other recent mass shooter that I can think of who survived was the Aurora theater shooter.

    Dylann Roof, too.

  20. 20.

    Fred

    The pro-gun argument so often hangs on the idea that people who commit murder are in some way rational actors.
    For the record, a guy who even thinks about, much less plans and really much less acts on that plan of taking a high powered gun into a public place and randomly murdering everybody in sight, is not a rational actor. That guy is not thinking of consequences in any way that normal people do. In short, armed guards, teachers, swat teams, the FBI, trials, judges, prison, even the electric chair are not going to deter these raving lunatics from doing what they think is the thing they need to do, to get even with the world.
    The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is don’t allow him to get that GD gun.
    Keep It Simple Stupid. Ban those guns! That is proven to work. It is the only thing that works.

  23. 23.

    barb 2

    @NotMax:

    Bush already tried that.

    Something to do with an earthquake and no Fed money unless WA did away with Unions. We knew then that when the GOP was in control we were on our own. WA state has a long union history.

    drump would love to sell off CA and OR as well.

    Amazing how many traitors still have their trump signs up in their yards. His fans are brainless as well.

  27. 27.

    raven

    This jet fuel tax exemption issue in Georgia in interesting. The pukes want to kill it because of Delta’s NRA stance but , if it passes, it will be a negative for public education in Clayton County.

    House Bill 821 would deny the state about $35 million a year from a 4 percent jet fuel tax while costing Clayton nearly $20 million a year on its local 2 percent sales tax, with half of that coming from the schools, said Wesley Tharpe, research director at the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    via Steven Taylor at OTB: After gunman takes Texas churchgoers hostage, police shoot the man who disarms him

    After a gunman took 100 people hostage at a Texas church this month, police burst in and shot a man holding a gun. But that man, Tony Garces, had taken the pistol away from the gunman after churchgoers were able to tackle him.

    “I got the gun,” he told KVII-TV. “I thought it was over. but then the cops shot me. The good guys shot me.“

  30. 30.

    mainmata

    @JGabriel: The Columbine shooters both committed suicide but the two students who committed the Arkansas school massacre tried to leave the scene but got caught. They were the ones who hid outside the school and after pulling the fire alarm shot the students and one teacher as they came out of the school.

    In general, i think it’s a mixed bag as to suicidal motivation. What’ s not ambiguous is the ridiculously easy access to these weapons by the kids involved.

    The NRA extremists are almost 100% men and have a totally fucked up idea about what makes a real man.

  31. 31.

    mainmata

    @raven: For a while, I thought GA might becoming at least a violet state but I guess unless the voters decide otherwise, it’s still hardcore red in 2018. Shame, it’s a pretty state.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    The TV was unfortunately on Joe this morning, and apparently they are about to have a segment on Conservative Movement vs. Party of Trump.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    Dynasty!

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ son is running for Congress in New Hampshire.

    Levi Sanders, 48, said in a statement first reported by WMUR and since posted on his campaign website that he is entering the open-seat race to replace retiring Democratic Rep. Carol Shea-Porter.

    …..
    Unlike his father, who ran as an independent in Vermont, Sanders is running as a Democrat. He’ll be the eighth Democratic candidate to enter the race.

  40. 40.

    marcopolo

    Good morning folks.

    Posted without comment:

    It’s official. An eighth Democrat has entered the race for New Hampshire’s 1st District House seat, and he has a familiar last name: Levi Sanders, the son of former presidential candidate and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

    Sanders, 48, enters the race in the unique – although not unprecedented — position of residing out of the district he hopes to serve in Washington. He is a resident of Claremont, which is in the 2nd District, where he is a registered Democrat, but he’s running for the 1st District seat now held by U.S. Rep. Carol Shea-Porter, who is not seeking re-election.

    So this and the daughter running for mayor of Burlington.

    Oops, one comment–I posted before reading the damned thread so of course someone (Baud) beat me to it!

  41. 41.

    Kay

    @raven:

    it will be a negative for public education in Clayton County.

    They hate public schools. That’s why it’s so maddening that they’re weighing in on them. If it was up to them there wouldn’t be any school shootings in public schools because there wouldn’t be any public schools.

  44. 44.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    apparently they are about to have a segment on Conservative Movement vs. Party of Trump.

    They did the same thing with Bush, second term. I’m laughing that it’s first term for Trump.

    Hope springs eternal for tracking down the elusive True Conservative.

  45. 45.

    bemused

    Scut Farkus and his toadies got the keys to the WH and Congress. My money is on the Ralphies in this country pummeling the stuffing out of them.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    Jonathan Martin
    ‏@jmartNYT
    8h8 hours ago
    More
    Kelly has remarked privately that Ivanka is just “playing government,” one source said

    Everyone in the world (literally) already knew that. This top-notch manager is just full of valuable insights, isn’t he? Thank God he’s there, making the tough calls.

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    Arming teachers is so monumentally absurd on its face, for multiple reasons, that…well, that’s all I have to say about that. Next topic.

    /Jeffro Gump

  56. 56.

    marcopolo

    @satby: Yep, I pretty much vote against legacy candidates on principle. There are outliers–Jerry Brown, anyone–but most are poor reflections of their parental unit. Some are downright odious like Dan Lipinski–D congressman outside of Chicago.

  59. 59.

    J R in WV

    @Baud:

    Will select a Democratic candidate NOT names Sanders to support with hundreds of dollars in small donations made daily. Would go up to work door-to-door but I wouldn’t have that genuine down east twang, I have a little upper east coast accent. Not much mountain/southern accent unless I’m talking with folks who have a strong rural accent, then I pick it up a little bit.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    Your tax dollars at work.

    – A coalition of 20 U.S. states sued the federal government on Monday over Obamacare, claiming the law was no longer constitutional after the repeal last year of its requirement that people have health insurance or pay a fine.

    Reuters

  61. 61.

    Waldo

    I understand the argument for arming teachers. It’s a terrible idea, but I get it. It could deter some of these maniacs from attacking schools. Trouble is, there will always be other soft targets to choose from: outdoor concerts, movie theaters, churches. And the wingnut answer will always be the same: more guns = more security. It’s an arms race with no end — also known as NRA nirvana.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Well, but Mueller is also a Marine (I think) so there’s no telling :)

    It’s fine! They just created a completely fake narrative about this person! Not the first time that’s happened.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    The garbage is coming to your TV.

    The New York Times has conquered the podcasting world with “The Daily.” Now it wants to crack television with a weekly news program.

    CNN

  64. 64.

    mai naem mobile

    I bet Dolt45 went back to the Oval Office and screamed at Kelly about finding something to fuck the state of Washington over because Inslee disrespected him. I guarantee you if Washington has some natural disaster soon Dolt45 will withhold the aid.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Waldo:

    I felt like Las Vegas would end this whole stupid discussion on “good guys with guns” but we’ve apparently decided to ignore that.

    Airports are so fundamentally different than other places it’s just an incredibly dumb comparison.

    I get it though- they got nuth-in. They had to say something.

  67. 67.

    marcopolo

    There were some interesting speeches at the CA state Democratic convention. Here’s the one delivered by Dave Dayen (apologies for the length of the quote):

    The last real wage growth for the middle class came in the late 1990s in Clinton’s second term. Productivity started to pull away from wages in 1979, meaning workers weren’t enjoying the benefits of increased economic output. The top 1 percent holds the largest percentage of total wealth since the 1920s. And we haven’t experienced a situation like we have now, with low corporate investment and high corporate profits, maybe ever.

    Why is this all happening? I think it can be summed up in three words: concentrated corporate power.
    That lies at the heart of every issue, and serves as the roadblock to progress at every level. Whether you’re an environmentalist trying to save the planet from devastation, or a fast food worker in need of a living wage for your family, or a student from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School who wants to save the lives of children, you’re fighting concentrated corporate power. And let’s linger on that first word, concentrated. We are living in an Age of Monopoly that we have not seen in this country since the Gilded Age at the end of the 19th century.

    More and more economic benefits have flowed into fewer and fewer hands, and I’m not just talking about personal inequality of income and wealth, a rot of a few dominant established players in sector after sector. Four banks control about 60 percent of all assets. Four airlines control 80 percent of the routes. We have four cable and Internet companies, usually only one available in your area. Two companies sell 70% of the beer in America. One company makes 70% of the syringes. One company makes pretty much all the eyeglasses, and one company makes up all the plastic hangers. This week gun control activists contacted three rental car companies to demand they end their discount program for NRA members, and they all said they would be canceling it March 26. It seemed weirdly coincidental, until you realize the three companies — National, Enterprise, and Alamo — all have the same corporate parent. We have the illusion of choice, but the reality of a consolidated, captured economy, and this has had massive effects on innovation, entrepreneurship, wages, quality of service, fragility of these sectors to glitches or financial shocks, and ultimately, on liberty and democracy, on the ability of someone with a good idea to use their talents to get it produced and put into the marketplace.

  68. 68.

    Elizabelle

    Did you guys discuss Drew Magary’s GQ article from about 5 days ago? He too has noticed that the FTF NY Times is whack.

    The Importance of Rudeness

    What set him off was Bobo’s recent personal best: David Brooks’ unfathomable essay right after Parkland that Red America can lead the way on gun control and that we need to treat them with respect. It was in a class by itself.

    Getting after the FTF NYTimes’ op ed page is low hanging fruit. You have to go after their DC press corpses too. They are as guilty as Bobo and Brett Stephens and others.

    … I am tired of Times writers—and the corrupt GOP loons they provide cover for—demanding everyone else be polite when their very ideas are obscene. Every day, the president wages spiritual war against anyone who dares oppose him.

    … for the most part, this nation has obliged Brooks and his ilk. We’ve had plenty of protests since Trump took office, but we could definitely stand to have more. Mainstream news still covers Trump’s transgressions with a kind of dry courtesy that helps render them easily forgotten. We could stand to be ruder, because rudeness is the necessary consequence of bad policy. Civility, at least the kind the New York Times is calling for, only serves to whitewash misdeeds and hinder real action. And it always remains incumbent upon the oppressed to be polite to their would-be oppressors.

    …. I hope those Parkland kids don’t listen to any of what these supposed grownups are telling them. I hope they keep being loud and rude, and I hope they don’t stop until they have left lawmakers and their media stooges so startled and uncomfortable that they have little choice but to act. Because when you are rude to those who expect nothing less than fealty, I think you’ll find they crumble straight away. I’ll be behind those kids all the way, with double middle fingers raised high up in the air for [FTF NYT op ed page editor] James Bennet to see.

    It’s not a long read, and I’d recommend reading the whole thing, rather than just this excerpt. Magary is not so much proposing rudeness as calling out the “civility” that makes US problems unsolvable.

    Having a press that’s not in the pocket of Republicans would go a long way. The FTF NYTimes is not that press.

  70. 70.

    Waldo

    @Kay: Yeah, I’m sure you recall that after Vegas the talk turned to improving hotel security — as if that was the real issue. Surprised we didn’t hear calls to arm bellhops.

  73. 73.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: Thank you. And not Marine-bashing (my dad was one). And had forgotten Mueller has done the Corps proud.

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    Mueller was accepted for officer training in the United States Marine Corps in 1968, attending training at Parris Island, Officer Candidate School, Army Ranger School, and Army jump school.[18][19]

    In July 1968, he was sent to South Vietnam where he served as a rifle platoon leader with Second Platoon, H Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, 3rd Marine Division.[6][20] In December 1968, he earned the Bronze Star with ‘V’ distinction for combat valor for rescuing a wounded Marine under enemy fire during an ambush that saw half of his platoon become casualties.[21][22] In April 1969, he received an enemy gunshot wound in the thigh, recovered, and returned to lead his platoon until June 1969

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: His way costs him more time, time he can not get back. I’m with Dorothy, a quick “Fuck Off.” or just hang up.

  80. 80.

    Honus

    @Elizabelle: hard to tell which was more maddening, Brooks wanting us to be polite to rural gun humpers or whoever it was that called on Michael Steele to show some grace to the GOP official that racially insulted him.

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    WRT the Georgia Senate and its trying to punish Delta (a major employer) for dropping the NRA discount:

    What a bunch of crybabies and thugs. This is not lost on Delta employees and Georgia in general.

    Thugs. Only word for it.

    They’re making it so easy to mobilize more votes for the midterms. There is likely a ceiling on Yosemite Sam ammosexuals; not so much on those who don’t vote that often, or enough …

  87. 87.

    marcopolo

    Sure hope this bodes well for Beto & all the other TX Dems(link is to the Hill):

    Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) reportedly says in a Monday fundraising email that Democrats’ early voting figures in the state should “shock every conservative to their core.”

    Going against the general norm in Texas, more Democrats in Texas have turned out to vote in 2018 primaries so far than Republicans.

    Abbott sent an email to supporters asking for donations and warning that Democratic enthusiasm in Texas could lead to results that mirror the party’s victories in special elections across the country.

    “We’ve seen a surge of liberal enthusiasm in deep red states like Georgia, Alabama, and Oklahoma,” Abbott says in the email, as reported by The Dallas Morning News. “We had always hoped the liberal wave would never hit Texas, but these Early Voting returns aren’t encouraging so far.”

  94. 94.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    The Hill‏@thehill

    #BREAKING: Trump EPA to shut down office handling research on chemicals’ effects on children’s health

    welcome to the “glorious revolution”.

  97. 97.

    oldgold

    Trump on Florida shooting: ‘I really believe I’d run in there, even if I didn’t have a weapon.’

    A Stern-Trump interview on July 16, 2008.
    “I was at Mar-a-Lago and we had this incredible ball, the Red Cross Ball, in Palm Beach, Florida.
    “So what happens is, this guy falls off right on his face, hits his head, and I thought he died. And you know what I did? I said, ‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away.
    “I couldn’t, you know, he was right in front of me and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him… he’s bleeding all over the place, I felt terrible. You know, beautiful marble floor, didn’t look like it. It changed color. Became very red. And you have this poor guy, 80 years old, laying on the floor unconscious, and all the rich people are turning away. ‘Oh my God! This is terrible! This is disgusting!’ and you know, they’re turning away. Nobody wants to help the guy. His wife is screaming—she’s sitting right next to him, and she’s screaming
    “I was saying, ‘Get that blood cleaned up! It’s disgusting!’ The next day, I forgot to call (the man])to say he’s OK,” said Trump, adding of the blood, “It’s just not my thing.”

  98. 98.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    And that’s another thing. Hicks is 29 years old and is described as a longtime Trump aide. Longtime? What, since she was 4 years old???

  100. 100.

    bemused

    @JPL:

    My inquiring mind wants to know if trumpie grills her when she returns to WH after testifying. It’s hard to imagine he would not.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @marcopolo: I give you Dancakes.

    St. Louis man makes 75 Pixar pancakes in viral video

    St. Louis is home to one talented pancake artist. Dan Drake, “Dr. Dan the Pancake Man,” may have just topped himself. He just released a video where he makes over 75 Pixar themed pancakes.

    Dan got his start at the Courtesy Diner on Kingshighway in south st. Louis. He would make creative pancakes by request for patrons. One night someone posted a picture of a Super Mario magic mushroom hotcake to Reddit. The rest is history.

    The pic of the pancake went viral. It got picked up by Buzzfeed, The Today Show and he was event the subject of a FOX 2 report. Drake was able to quit his job at the diner. Now he works as a professional pancake artist.

    These are some of his latest tasty creations:

    My little brother had him perform at his restaurant for Sunday brunch. He’s good.

  102. 102.

    Radiumgirl

    @JGabriel:

    Another way of thinking about this is that most school shooters intend to commit suicide by cop – but first, they just want to punish, or take with them, everyone who pissed them off.

    Exactly this. There’s an assumption that guys who do this care about their own lives and can be deterred by the threat of armed guards, even armed teachers. That won’t stop them. They’ll just go in with kevlar vests and hope to do as much damage as they can before they go down.

  103. 103.

    rk

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the president of the United States is not a smart man

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the people of the United States are not very smart either.

  104. 104.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Trump wasn’t just making the wrong sound effects, it’s clear from his hand gestures that he’s never handled one too.

  106. 106.

    MomSense

    @JGabriel:

    It’s so good. I couldn’t link from my phone yesterday but mentioned that it is worth watching. She is the same student who organized the march in Tallahassee.

  107. 107.

    marcopolo

    @OzarkHillbilly:Back when I was a bartender, I occasionally went to the Courtesy early in the morning after work. But that was 25 years ago so he probably wasn’t there.

    His pancakes are certainly distinct. And he has done an excellent job of leveraging this skill of his into a career. I don’t know that I’d want to eat a pancake that is looking at me, though. And I wonder if all that food coloring (assuming that is what he is using) affects the taste at all?

  110. 110.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Manu Raju‏ @mkraju

    Bernie Sanders and an aide brush back questions about Mueller indictments of the Russians – and how they allegedly helped his campaign. One of his aides stepped in front of me to shield the senator and prevent me from asking questions. Aide bumped into me, saying “Not right now.”

    3:28 PM – 26 Feb 2018

    Hmmm. If he did nothing wrong, why is he hiding.

  112. 112.

    matyroshka

    @Baud: Did you watch that segment? I learned from it that Donald Trump is a creation of the Democratic party; he’d always been a Democrat and still is! Also, Mika was mewing about how the Democrats don’t really have a message, so if they win anything in the mid-terms it will be business as usual. These people really deserve to have their mouths washed out with soap.

  113. 113.

    Honus

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t say fuck off, that would be rude and after all, the caller is just doing what is a rotten low paying job and doesn’t need to be abused. But I do just immediately hang up.

  115. 115.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @marcopolo: I lived at Arsenal and Kingshighway in ’78, ’79. Fell into the Courtesy habit back then and I still go there every now and again when I’m in STL. Don’t know about the food coloring, I don’t eat pancakes very often because it sends my bloodsugar way out of whack. But I sure enjoy watching him work and have left more than a few bucks in his tip jar.

  117. 117.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Honus:

    the caller is just doing what is a low paying job and doesn’t need YO be abused.

    And I don’t need to be abused with unwelcome intrusions into my life. I’ve thought about that whole “their just doing their jobs” argument. It is an argument that applies to everyone from the guards at Auschwitz to payday lenders to cigarette company executives to ad infinitum the legal corporate predators in our society. I say to all of them, “Fuck you.”.

    You of course are free to approach them differently.

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    @Radiumgirl: That’s brilliant. Find a reason to leave the phone and … just don’t go back.

    I feel for telemarketers. I suspect it’s a desperation job for most.

  119. 119.

    Peale

    @matyroshka: yep. Maybe their god damned insistence that only GOP wins ever count and are the only true expression of the will of the people is the reason why…whatever. They can enjoy their tax breaks and their white supremacy while they can.

  120. 120.

    But her emails!!!

    @matyroshka:

    Mika was mewing about how the Democrats don’t really have a message, so if they win anything in the mid-terms it will be business as usual. These people really deserve to have their mouths washed out with soap.

    I don’t quite understand how, “Vote for us, we’re going to be assholes and fuck everyone over but the Koch brothers, but we’ll fuck over the people you hate even more than you.” is a an acceptable message according to the media, but “Vote for us, we’re not assholes” is not.

  121. 121.

    Barbara

    @OzarkHillbilly: When I get such a call I interrupt and say, “I am not interested, thanks,” and immediately hang up. No, I don’t need the intrusions but there is already too much nastiness in the world and you can get rid of them just as quickly when you are polite as when you are rude.

  123. 123.

    Betty Cracker

    @Elizabelle: I feel sorry for them too, so I am generally polite but firm. I interrupt the monologue and say something like, “I’m not interested, and I don’t want to waste any more of your time or mine, so goodbye” and then hang up. BTW, whatever happened to the “Do Not Call” list? It seems like it worked for about a year, and then the floodgates opened again. Telemarketing company lobbying, I suspect.

  124. 124.

    Another Scott

    @Betty Cracker: VOIP lets spammers and scammers make the call appear to come from any number they like, so there’s no accountability any more.

    Something needs to be done.

    My cell phone on T-Mobile occasionally pops up a “Suspected scam number” on such calls, but only occasionally. Presumably that can be improved over time…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  126. 126.

    Orange is the new Red

    @Barbara: One of my first jobs was running a tiny telemarketing room. I loved it when people who weren’t interested would just hang up, the rule of thumb is that you’re likely to get one sale (or interested person) for every ten calls. I wanted to just keep going until I hit that 10th person as quickly as possible. The job paid poorly, but it was steady work, and I learned not to take nasty comments personally. Now, I never purchase anything by phone unless I’ve called the company, but I’m polite and fast to get telemarketers off the phone so they can go find their 10th person. On the other hand, I have received the same marketing call six times in a week from a scam resort tour, so I am less polite than I used to be. I do volunteer for phone banks, I figure I have solid experience with engaging people by phone, and don’t really mind being hung up on.

  127. 127.

    Barbara

    @Orange is the new Red: When I hear that little gap of time between when I pick up and someone comes on the line, I know it’s a marketing call and hang up. They now dial many numbers simultaneously and route calls that are picked up to people on the phone. That little second or two is your chance to hang up before being engaged. The practice of deceiving people on the number should be prohibited. It’s okay to say “unknown,” but affirmatively using someone else’s number is deceptive.

  128. 128.

    MomSense

    @matyroshka:

    Donald Trump is the product of greed, white supremacy, and patriarchy. A below average white dude with appalling behavior and a terrible business record could only succeed in the Republican Party.

  129. 129.

    SFAW

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Mr DAW listens to their spiel before saying no thank you and hanging up, but I do it right away. I refuse to let them trap me by using my own politeness.

    I got a “I need to talk to you about your Windows computer and how it’s vulnerable RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND” scam call last week. So, being a dutiful zombie/drone/whatever, I started in with the “OMFG which computer OMFG what do I do!!! OMFG OMFG!!!!” When the fuck wad realized I was playing him — didn’t take long, I think I overdid it a little — he started in with the “Fuck YOU, no, fuck you motherfucker” and so one and so forth.

    Which means I need to revise my response to something similar to “Since I know how this is going to go, why don’t I save you a little time — go fuck yourself, you candy-assed piece of shit.” Or some variation thereof.

    Live and learn, I guess.

  130. 130.

    SFAW

    @But her emails!!!:

    I don’t quite understand how, “Vote for us, we’re going to be assholes and fuck everyone over but the Koch brothers, but we’ll fuck over the people you hate even more than you.” is a an acceptable message according to the media, but “Vote for us, we’re not assholes” is not.

    It’s along the lines of how calling out racists is the REAL RACISM.

  131. 131.

    matyroshka

    @But her emails!!!: I know! Even as they repeal the best attempt we’ve had at universal healthcare (a Dem accomplishment), they insist we have no ideas. Hilary was a workhorse with solid platform of informed policy proposals, but we got an orange bag of flatus instead.

  132. 132.

    matyroshka

    @Peale: I can see the narrative that is taking shape to protect them from noticing the anticipated wave of blue. This entire country is being gaslighted on every channel.

  133. 133.

    JPL

    @matyroshka: Trump appeared to change parties when it suited him. He was registered as a democrat a few times and as a republican a few times. Imagine that!

  134. 134.

    Tokyokie

    @Barbara: I like getting the calls from somebody with a thick Indian accent, who starts by saying “Hello, my name is Bob.” To which I reply, “No it isn’t.” It really throws them off their spiel for the few seconds before I hang up.

  135. 135.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Another Scott:

    VOIP lets spammers and scammers make the call appear to come from any number they like, so there’s no accountability any more.

    Oh, but disallowing that would get in the way of some business being able to do whatever it wants to make money–what kind of American are you?

  136. 136.

    MomSense

    @SFAW:

    I usually say I’m sorry I don’t speak English. It’s always fun when the person on the other end of the phone apologizes in English and hangs up.

  137. 137.

    gvg

    @Betty Cracker: Do not call worked until technology enabled non USA individuals and companies to spoof source phone numbers with technology. Most of the calls especially the robo calls are coming from overseas. there are a few crooks in the US still doing it and unfortunately they just “shut down” a company when they get a cease and desist form a state AG and “start another one”. they even pay fines of millions and just keep going because millions in fines is a drop in the bucket compared to what they make.
    I have been researching it because I am being driven nuts by it. I am phone shopping because AT&T has developed a promising tech app that blocks known fraud, allows you to block more and report them and warns you when it’s not quite sure yet. Its free but only the newest phones work with it and they aren’t going to bother doing something for older “obsolete” phones like mine. I am grumpy about it but so far no one else has done anything and wishing for this Congress to address it is laughable. When the Dems take back the government they will have more urgent things to deal with for awhile.

  138. 138.

    rikyrah

    Republicans fret sexting scandal could cost them easy House seat
    Republicans worry they could lose a reliably red district if former state Sen. Steve Montenegro wins Tuesday’s special-election primary in Arizona.

    By ELENA SCHNEIDER 02/26/2018 05:24 PM EST

    Republicans are fretting that a front-runner for an Arizona congressional seat — a married minister involved in a sexting scandal — will pull a Roy Moore and hand the seat to Democrats if he wins Tuesday’s special-election primary.

    The seat vacated by former GOP Rep. Trent Franks — who resigned last December over his own sex scandal — should be an easy hold for Republicans.

    But a bombshell report of nude photos and text messages exchanged between the candidate, former state Sen. Steve Montenegro, and a legislative staffer — published just a week before the election — has left GOP operatives worried that “it could be Alabama all over again,” said Shiree Verdone, who ran Arizona Sen. John McCain’s 2010 Senate race.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/26/sexting-scandal-threatens-arizona-house-seat-364930

  139. 139.

    rikyrah

    In a suburban Cincinnati office park, white nationalists have found their lawyer and an ally

    Monroe Trombly, Cincinnati
    Published 10:32 p.m. ET Feb. 26, 2018 | Updated 8:08 a.m. ET Feb. 27, 2018

    When a dozen neo-Nazis and white supremacists from the deadly march in Charlottesville were charged with crimes last year, they needed to find a lawyer.

    Their search for one took them to Deerfield Township in suburban Cincinnati, where they found James E. Kolenich, a civil rights attorney who said he has only one thing in common with his new clients. He believes white people must save and preserve their civilization from Jews, immigrants and minorities.

    “My willingness to get involved is to oppose Jewish influence in society,” he told The Enquirer. “It’s plain that white people are the chosen people in the New Testament. It’s the job that we were given, to spread Christianity around the world. That doesn’t involve hatred of other races, not even of ethnic Jews. But it does involve opposing their un-Christian influence in society.”

    Kolenich is a new name in the pantheon of the “alt-right,” a loose affiliation of racists, white nationalists and anti-Semites. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups and their leaders, did not have him listed.

  140. 140.

    rikyrah

    HUD official says she was replaced for rejecting Carson’s costly office redecoration

    Department’s ex-chief administrative officer says she was replaced by a Trump appointee and told ‘$5,000 will not even buy a decent chair’
    Tue 27 Feb 2018 08.08 EST

    A senior career official in the US Department of Housing and Urban Development has alleged that she was demoted and replaced with a Donald Trump appointee after refusing to break the law by funding an expensive redecoration of Ben Carson’s office.

    Helen Foster said she was told “$5,000 will not even buy a decent chair” after informing her bosses this was the legal price limit for improvements to the HUD secretary’s suite at the department’s Washington headquarters.

    Foster, 47, claimed that she also faced retaliation for exposing a $10m budget shortfall, and for protesting when she was barred from handling a pair of sensitive freedom of information act (FOIA) requests relating to Trump apparently because she was perceived to be a Democrat.

    A copy of a complaint letter filed by Foster to a watchdog for federal employees was obtained by the Guardian. It alleges that HUD violated laws protecting whistleblowers from reprisals. Foster is seeking a public apology, compensatory damages and reinstatement as HUD’s chief administrative officer.

  143. 143.

    rikyrah

    Trump confronts something unusual: an in-person critic
    02/27/18 08:40 AM—UPDATED 02/27/18 08:52 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Donald Trump hosted a White House event yesterday with governors, which wouldn’t have been especially noteworthy were it not for something unusual that happened.

    Washington Gov. Jay Inslee (D) noted that the president has suggesting arming school teachers, which prompted Trump to interject, saying he only wants to arm “gun-adept” teachers, at which point “you’re not going have any problems anymore.”

    And while it’s tempting to explain how misguided this is, take a look at the Democratic governor’s response, delivered directly to the president:

    “If I may respond to that. Let me just suggest, whatever percentage it is – I heard at one time you might have suggested 20 percent – whatever percentage it is, speaking as a grandfather, speaking as the Governor of the state of Washington, I have listened to the people who would be affected by that. I have listened to the biology teachers, and they don’t want to do that, at any percentage. I’ve listened to the first-grade teachers that don’t want to be pistol-packing first-grade teachers. I’ve listened to law enforcement who have said they don’t want to have to train teachers as law enforcement agents, which takes about six months.

    “Now, I just think this is a circumstance where we need to listen, that educators should educate, and they should not be foisted upon this responsibility of packing heat in first grade classes.

    “Now, I understand you have suggested this. And we suggest things, and sometimes then we listen to people about it, and maybe they don’t look so good a little later. So I just suggest we need a little less tweeting here and a little more listening. And let’s just take that off the table and move forward.”

    If you watch the video of the exchange, it’s hard not to notice the awkward body language: the more Inslee tries to set Trump straight, the more the president folds his arms, rocks back and forth, and signals his dissatisfaction.

  144. 144.

    rikyrah

    To protect the NRA, Georgia Republican threatens Delta
    02/27/18 08:00 AM
    By Steve Benen

    More than a few of the National Rifle Association’s corporate partners no longer want anything to do with the far-right group, and that includes two major airlines. Delta and United Airlines were offering discounted rates through a group-travel program for those attending the NRA’s annual meeting, but both companies ended the contract.

    That didn’t sit well with a Republican policymaker in Georgia with an A+ rating from the organization.

    Georgia’s lieutenant governor on Monday threatened to prevent Delta Air Lines from getting a lucrative tax cut after the company ended its discount program with the National Rifle Association, in the latest fallout from a deadly school shooting in Florida. […]

    Republican Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, president of the state Senate and a leading candidate to succeed Gov. Nathan Deal, tweeted that he would use his position to sink the proposed sales tax exemption on jet fuel.

    “I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA,” Cagle said via Twitter. “Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.”

    If this sounds a bit like political extortion, it’s not your imagination. One of Georgia’s top officials is targeting one of Georgia’s top private employers, effectively saying, “It’s a nice tax break you have there; it’d be a shame if something happened to it.”

  145. 145.

    Tenar Arha

    @gvg: OMG What’s the name of the tech? I want to research it too. (Half the time I’m still picking up the unrecognized phone numbers when it rings bc I needed to during my father’s last year).

  146. 146.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Tenar Arha: So I’m sure the immediate retirement of the US Special Representative for North Korea isn’t relevant at all. Nothing to see, move along.

  149. 149.

    SFAW

    @Tokyokie:

    I like getting the calls from somebody with a thick Indian accent, who starts by saying “Hello, my name is Bob.” To which I reply, “No it isn’t.” It really throws them off their spiel for the few seconds before I hang up.

    Interesting. I sometimes get a call from his brother, “Kevin.”

  152. 152.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I tell the computer scammers they should be ashamed of themselves and get an honest job.

    I ask them if their mother and grandmothers know that their job entails scamming people and suggest they would be ashamed if they did.

  153. 153.

    ewrunning

    If Governor Inslee had spoken a few minutes more, Trump would have sunk to the floor and assumed the fetal position. And this quivering coward expects people to believe he’d run in and confront a shooter unarmed. I’ll wager he hasn’t run a step in 50 years, but he’d run all right, in the opposite direction.

  154. 154.

    JustRuss

    @Orange is the new Red:

    I have received the same marketing call six times in a week from a scam resort tour,

    I had one of those who called me once a week for several months, their persistence was both annoying and kind of impressive. Last week I finally listened to their spiel, and they told me to qualify I needed a certain minimum income. I said I’d recently divorced and no longer made that much, and they said “I’m sorry” and hung up on me!

  156. 156.

    glory b

    @Elizabelle: It is. I see some of their cases at work. They’re probably happy for the break they get while waiting for you to return. They are downrated for “hanging” on a call, meaning that they wait an additional 15 or 20 seconds before hanging up so the computer can’t immediately send another call through.

  157. 157.

    TenguPhule

    @Waldo:

    It could deter some of these maniacs from attacking schools.

    Stop. No. WRONG.

    It will deter NOBODY.

    Attackers will almost always have the element of surprise and initiative. Any teacher carrying a gun on school grounds becomes another threat to the students and can serve as an additional source of weapons to any attacker.

    An attack will always occur under two circumstances.

    When they’re ready. And you’re not.

  158. 158.

    J R in WV

    @SFAW:

    No, no, when I get the computer center security calls, I work hard to get them to walk me through what they want me to do. I’m very patient and slow/stupid sounding, and need a lot of help to figure out what they want me to do.

    After 15 or 20 minutes, I’ll press the button they want me to push, but because I’m running Linux on a laptop that came with Winsdoze, it acts differently than they expect. After a while they’ll say, hold on, I’m gonna get a supervisor, the head crook to help me steal from you. That’s not what they say, it’s sweetness and he’s gonna to a better job, I’m new here and you’ve got me confused. So now I’m burning two scammers’ time !!!

    I’ve kept them on the hook for as much as 45 minutes or an hour. I try to remember what I can of Windows, to help me sound like just a few more minutes will break through to access to my machine. I don’t think they would find anything that would do them much good, we don’t access our banks or investment accounts with our computers, we call them on the phone or mail or fax a letter.

    If I can make them both curse me when I tell them I’ve been running UNIX for the past 20 years and don’t expect them to find any Windows security flaws on my computer, that’s a fun time. I’m retired, and many days I am easily amused. Maybe I should start making video of those calls and posting it to YouTube and running ads for my security service?! Sometimes near the end, when I feel things are about to pop, I tell them, “I was wondering how you tested my machine. You know I don’t ahve an internet connection, don’t you? ” Big boom then~!

    People selling stuff I don’t let them get very far, I tell them up front it’s a no sale and they would be better off making the next call sooner, most understand what I’m saying, say thanks anyway and do that, go on. Lots of them are from a Campaign, and I tell those that I don’t respond to phone calls, I reach out to the campaigns I support, I thank them for the hard work, tell them I’ve done done banking, complement them on their skills and ask them to keep up their good work for would be congressman or AG or Mayor whoever.

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