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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Experimental Tastes

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Experimental Tastes

by Anne Laurie|  March 3, 20186:45 am| 146 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Excellent Links, Food, Open Threads, Post-racial America

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A break from the ongoing fustercluck, from the Washington Post:

Approach Tunde Wey’s lunch counter/sociology experiment at the Roux Carre market in New Orleans, and — if you’re white — you’ll have a decision to make. And it’s not just whether you want to try his jollof rice or his fried plantains. Wey serves his Nigerian food with a lesson about racial wealth disparity: The median income among African American households in New Orleans is only $25,806, compared to $64,377 for white households. According to the Urban Institute, the national average wealth of white families is $919,000, while the average wealth of black families is $140,000. Wey will share some stats with his customers, and then he’ll tell them the price of their lunch.

If they’re a person of color, they pay $12. If they’re white, he’ll tell them they can either pay $12, or they can pay $30 — two and a half times the base price, which reflects the wealth disparity in New Orleans. He tells them the profits will be redistributed to people of color, but not as charity — just to any minority customers of his who want it, regardless of their income or circumstance.

“When I tell black folks what’s happening, 90 percent of them start laughing, like, ‘For real?’ They’re tickled,” he said. “White folks, there’s this blank — ” he paused and laughed, “— this blank look. They’re like, ‘Huh, okay.’”…

The lunch counter, Saartj, is named after Saartjie Baartman, a South African woman who was put on display in the early 1800s in Europe because of her large buttocks, and given the nickname “the Hottentot Venus.” When Wey devised the project in New Orleans, he wanted to study people’s reactions to it, so he enlisted a student from Tulane University to devise an exit interview that would help him understand why people decided to pay the amount that they chose. After the price reveal, the conversation would typically take one of several established paths. People of color, who were asked if they wanted their money back after the conclusion of the experiment on March 4, typically said no — many said it should go to someone who needed it more than them. Some black people tried to also pay the $30, saying that because they could afford it, they felt obligated to pay the higher price. (Wey would accept only $12 from people of color.) In the end, when Wey totals up the profits, he expects the customers who opted to receive money will get about $75 each. He says he is not keeping any profit for himself.

As for white customers: A handful of them immediately canceled the transaction and walked away. The remainder were faced with “this awkward moment where they have to make a choice” — and, importantly, they had to make that choice in front of Wey.

Initially, he expected that few white people would pay the $30.

“I thought, if given the chance to voluntarily give up privilege, folks would not because it is not in their interest,” he said. But he was wrong: So far, more than 80 percent of white customers have opted to pay the higher price, and Wey realized that he had been underestimating the power of social pressure…

Read the whole thing, if you want to know Wey’s targeted suggestion for “us[ing] food to address racial wealth disparity”.
***********

Apart from arguing about the worth of a restaurant meal, what’s on the agenda for the day?

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Reader Interactions

146Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:02 am

    Probably heading down to NOLA in a couple weeks. Guess I know where I’m eating lunch.

  2. 2.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 3, 2018 at 7:05 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: As will the kid, there’s an OR nurses conference down there.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    March 3, 2018 at 7:07 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:07 am

    to repeat myself, as I knew I’d have to when I posted these links in the now dead previous thread:

    Uber and Lyft drivers’ median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

    Uber and Lyft drivers in the US make a median profit of $3.37 per hour before taxes, according to a new report that suggests a majority of ride-share workers make below minimum wage and that many actually lose money.

    Researchers did an analysis of vehicle cost data and a survey of more than 1,100 drivers for the ride-hailing companies for the paper published by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Center for Energy and Environmental Policy Research. The report – which factored in insurance, maintenance, repairs, fuel and other costs – found that 30% of drivers are losing money on the job and that 74% earn less than the minimum wage in their states.

    The findings have raised fresh concerns about labor standards in the booming sharing economy as companies such as Uber and Lyft continue to face scrutiny over their treatment of drivers, who are classified as independent contractors and have few rights or protections.

    “This business model is not currently sustainable,” said Stephen Zoepf, executive director of the Center for Automotive Research at Stanford University and co-author of the paper. “The companies are losing money. The businesses are being subsidized by [venture capital] money … And the drivers are essentially subsidizing it by working for very low wages.”

    MsOTU my ass.

  5. 5.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 7:10 am

    While the cause is ideologically noble, it is illegal. He’s gotta stop.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:10 am

    The 2nd link:

    Mike Huckabee quits Country Music Association role due to protester ‘bullies’

    Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas who twice ran for the Republican presidential nomination, has resigned from the board of the Country Music Association Foundation one day after joining it, thanks to vociferous protests against his appointment.
    ……………………..
    Huckabee’s appointment was met with protests, including from businessman Jason Owen, who manages some of the biggest names in country music including Little Big Town, Kacey Musgraves and Faith Hill and described the appointment as “shameful”. Owen, who is gay, said that “Huckabee speaks of the sort of things that would suggest my family is morally beneath his, and uses language that has a profoundly negative impact upon young people all across this country. Not to mention how harmful and damaging his deep involvement with the NRA is.” He said that “with a heavy heart” his companies would “no longer support the CMA Foundation”.

    Huckabee is an opponent of gay marriage, calling it “Biblical disobedience” that is “outside of nature”, that would “criminalise Christianity”. He is also long-time supporter of the National Rifle Association – he once bought his wife a handgun for a birthday present while at an NRA event as a speaker, and suggested that the Holocaust occurred because Jews had been disarmed: “They had no ability or capacity to resist – the result was the beginning of their captivity, the end of their freedom and the ultimate murder of six million innocent people.”

    In the wake of the protests, Huckabee stood down from the role, saying he had become an “unnecessary distraction and deterrent to the core mission of the foundation”. On Twitter, he described the protesters as “bullies”, while in a longer written statement he complained of “irrational vitriol” and “intolerant and vicious statements”, adding: “I hope that the music and entertainment industry will become more tolerant and inclusive and recognise that a true love for kids having access to the arts is more important than a dislike for someone or a group of people because of who they are or what they believe.”

    NO FAIR!!! They’re fighting back!!! NO FAIR!!!! You won’t let me beat up the gay people!!!

  7. 7.

    Arcadia Berger

    March 3, 2018 at 7:12 am

    Some Young Republicans tried a stunt with racially scaled prices that was intended to ridicule efforts to redress unequal opportunity.
    I wonder what results they got? I wonder if they’d be willing to admit it if the results surprised them?
    My goal for today is to start a new story for my Smashwords inventory.

  8. 8.

    clay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:16 am

    I, too, am repeating myself from a dead thread.

    Ruh-roh:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/03/02/shortly-before-trump-announced-tariffs-his-former-adviser-dumped-millions-in-steel-related-stocks/?utm_term=.7fc43a163534

  9. 9.

    Currants

    March 3, 2018 at 7:17 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Really? No one HAS to pay more than the lower price.

  10. 10.

    Aimai

    March 3, 2018 at 7:17 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: its voluntary.

  11. 11.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Huckabee is an opponent of gay marriage, calling it “Biblical disobedience” that is “outside of nature”, that would “criminalise Christianity”.

    That prediction proved true, huh? Outlawed.

  12. 12.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 7:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Uber and Lyft drivers in the US make a median profit of $3.37 per hour before taxes

    I was listening to a tech podcast discussion about this. I guess I would describe the hosts as techno libertarians who see all Silicon Valley and Uber type innovation as positive and beneficial, no matter what. Especially if it is disruptive. So, one of the hosts insisted that Uber drivers were making a rational choice, and maybe they preferred making low wages as a driver rather than, say, working at McDonald’s because they could control their hours and work when they wanted and also maybe could use down time to train for other jobs.

    Another host noted that it really didn’t matter because one day, hopefully, human Uber drivers would be replaced by self driving cars. I guess this gets us closer to Technological Nirvana.

  13. 13.

    Amir Khalid

    March 3, 2018 at 7:20 am

    My programme? More practice on Born To Run for me and The Girl. Liverpool-Newcastle United in the English Premier League tonight.

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    We’ve seen this movie before. A situation that can’t go on, won’t. At some point the VCs will have to realise they’re just throwing money down a pit. The losses at Uber and Lyft must get too big for the companies’ leaders to ignore. And the drivers must realise they’re being taken for a ride. History tells me this will all come crashing down in a few years.

  14. 14.

    satby

    March 3, 2018 at 7:23 am

    That’s a normal thing in Haiti, there was a price for black Haitians and a higher price for blancs.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    March 3, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  16. 16.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    March 3, 2018 at 7:23 am

    Shame is a very powerful motivator so I am not at all surprised by the number of Caucasians opting to pay the higher price.

  17. 17.

    MomSense

    March 3, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Sounds like a fun day.

  18. 18.

    MomSense

    March 3, 2018 at 7:25 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The gig economy is a disaster for working people.

  19. 19.

    satby

    March 3, 2018 at 7:25 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah!

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @Kay: I would write the law so narrowly it would only criminalize him.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    March 3, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @Kay: Hate crimes against gays are illegal in many jurisdictions. Huckabee was right.

  22. 22.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    March 3, 2018 at 7:27 am

    I’m going to see Black Panther finally.

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:29 am

    @Brachiator: It’s a perfectly rational choice to sleep in one’s car. Climb over the seat and you arrive at the office, World’s shortest commute!

  24. 24.

    satby

    March 3, 2018 at 7:29 am

    @MomSense: it is. But it’s been sold as “independence”. You’re free not to work for a boss, but you’re also free to make a pittance without benefits and labor protections. And an entire generation has grown up without knowing that a job used to be a fairer exchange.

  25. 25.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:31 am

    @Baud:

    Oh, you know better than that!

    A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias

    They were never allowed to do any of those things.

  26. 26.

    Raven

    March 3, 2018 at 7:31 am

    @Amir Khalid: I don’t know how familiar you are with Jorma Kaukonen but we saw him last night. Nearly 3 hours of just him finger picking and singing. He was a founding member of the Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna. A true master of guitar.

    https://youtu.be/g6cJR9copFw

  27. 27.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:35 am

    @satby:

    It’s not just that. It’s the up-front investment. They’re worse than regular minimum wage jobs because the driver has to pre-qualify with a license, decent car and insurance. It’s like a bad franchise deal.

    Uber could not function without the extensive regulation of drivers and automobiles by the state. They’re wholly dependent on a regulatory state.

  28. 28.

    HeleninEire

    March 3, 2018 at 7:36 am

    So the snow has finally stopped here. The Dublin City Council’s plan is pretty much “It’ll melt.” And I believe they are correct. I went for a walk and it’s kinda balmy out there. It’s already turning to slush. The big concern now (mostly outside the city) is flooding. It’s going to rain tomorrow.

    But I am happy to report I survived The Beast from the East.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:36 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    The losses at Uber and Lyft must get too big for the companies’ leaders to ignore.

    I have to disagree. Those losses aren’t being ignored, they’re being passed on, to the drivers and the investors. The company leaders are making millions and when it all comes crashing down, they will take their millions and sail off into the sunset, to New Zealand..

    They are graduates of Advanced Business Practices University and make use of the techniques they learned in in IGMFY 101.

  30. 30.

    Amir Khalid

    March 3, 2018 at 7:37 am

    @Raven:
    I know the name but the Airplane was never really on my musical horizons. Will check him out. Thanks.

  31. 31.

    glory b

    March 3, 2018 at 7:37 am

    In PA 18, Rick Saccone’s first ads emphasized that there is no space between him and Trump, he plans on backing him 1oo%.

    Latest ad, he reached across the aisle to a piece of legislation affecting child predators. He will work with the other party to get things done!

    Polling says the race is too close to call, Repubs are frantic, they thought this would be an easy pickup, Tim Murphy didn’t even have a challenger the last three times he ran.

    Interestingly, local news on the race says the “Nancy Pelosi is a demon from hell!” ads don’t seem to have much effect, maybe that well is starting to run dry.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:38 am

    @MomSense: Working people need a union.

  33. 33.

    Raven

    March 3, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @Raven: now listen to the electric version from Volunteers

    https://youtu.be/lOWX2-l788A

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 7:40 am

    I thought, if given the chance to voluntarily give up privilege, folks would not because it is not in their interest

    While I appreciate the lesson being taught here, no one is giving up “privilege,” since institutionalized racial oppression continues and goes beyond the dynamics of the transaction here. Still, an interesting and thoughtful experiment.

    ETA. As long as the white customers have the option of paying the $12 price, I don’t think there is anything illegal about this, as another poster suggests.

  35. 35.

    Raven

    March 3, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @Amir Khalid: here is Fur Peace Ranch where he conducts guitar workshops

    https://www.furpeaceranch.com

  36. 36.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:42 am

    A handful of them immediately canceled the transaction and walked away. The remainder were faced with “this awkward moment where they have to make a choice” — and, importantly, they had to make that choice in front of Wey.

    Is this 100% an experiment? Because if not I’m afraid they’re just never going to go to his counter again, if this is a repeat business type deal.

  37. 37.

    satby

    March 3, 2018 at 7:43 am

    I’ve been sleeping almost 8 hours a night, which is too long for me because 6-7 has always been my normal, even as a kid. I assume it’s the decongestant, because I wake up sleep drunk. And I should be getting ready to leave for the farmers market, but I can barely move. Weird problem.
    Oh, and totally bizarre dreams too.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    March 3, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @Kay:

    with an added element of bias

    In Huckabee’s mind, this is discriminating against, and thus criminalizing, Christianity.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @Kay:

    They were never allowed to do any of those things.

    Ahem. The history of the US is rife with examples of people doing those things and facing no consequences what so ever. For some, beating up gays was a rite of passage without which one could not graduate from high school. And that was when I was in HS.

  40. 40.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 7:45 am

    @Aimai:

    “Here at the Heart of Atlanta motel, we’re engaging in an experiment where people of color can pay 300 a night for their stay to illustrate how much they’d be willing to pay for accommodations were the liberty of price discrimination to be reinstated. This is a completely voluntary program.”

    Nope, nope, nope – what he’s doing is a slippery slope of mud atop of ice atop of gravel.

  41. 41.

    Sab

    March 3, 2018 at 7:45 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Yay. Saw it yesterday. Wow.

  42. 42.

    The Simp in the Suit

    March 3, 2018 at 7:46 am

    @The Ancient Randonneur:

    Shame is a very powerful motivator so I am not at all surprised by the number of Caucasians opting to pay the higher price.

    Shame? Maybe. I wouldn’t discount the idea that many people have a sense of fairness once something is pointed out to them in such a blatant fashion.

    Or maybe they wanted the food, which as described was already in their hands, and didn’t feel like putting up with what may have appeared to have been more bullshit.

  43. 43.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2018 at 7:47 am

    Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Saturday Morning Open Thread: Experimental Tastes

    Speaking of experimental tastes:

    Donations of deer semen make up majority of contributions in Texas candidate’s race

    The Dallas News reported Thursday that Ana Lisa Garza, a district court judge running a primary challenge against eight-term Democrat Ryan Guillen, has received $51,000 in in-kind donations to her campaign, listed as individual donations of frozen deer semen straws.

    The containers are reportedly a common way for deer breeders in the state to donate to political campaigns. Garza’s campaign has valued the straws at $1,000 each.

    Fred Gonzalez, a Texas deer breeder who serves as treasurer of the Texas Deer Association, told the Dallas News that the group’s political action committee has received more than $975,000 in deer semen donations since 2006, and has given more than $885,000 in the same period of time.

    I guess that’s one way to keep a campaign well-financed. I mean. the bucks will keep coming as long as the uh … well, as long as the bucks keep coming.

  44. 44.

    JR

    March 3, 2018 at 7:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not terribly surprising; cars are expensive and cab drivers never made all that much to begin with.

    However, any wage calculation has to factor in the fact that the drivers get to keep their car as an asset when they’re done. That won’t make their wages livable but it might bump things up to minimum or so.

  45. 45.

    Amir Khalid

    March 3, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    There will indeed come a point when they have to make their getaway. And upon reflection, I recognise they aren’t ignoring the mounting losses, they’re the ones pocketing the money in salary and perks. And keeping an eye on the exits.

  46. 46.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 7:51 am

    @Kay:

    Huckabee is an opponent of gay marriage, calling it “Biblical disobedience” that is “outside of nature”, that would “criminalise Christianity”.

    It’s odd. Trump and the Republicans are in charge, and yet right wing zealots cry and moan as though they are a despised group being discriminated against. And like the Georgia legislators attempt to defend the NRA, Huckabee’s nonsense is excessive. And a lie.

    Criminalize Christianity? Shit, I wish.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I met an Amazon driver from San Diego. They’re not making any money either. He’s giving it another month and then packing it in.

    My husband drove for UPS. They give the drivers training on the most efficient way to deliver. They put an enormous amount of effort into it, planning routes, pushing them harder and harder, because they have to train people to maximize profit in that industry. They plan routes to minimize left turns and backing up, it’s all planned. That’s how they can pay them a decent wage. They had huge data operations, everything was timed to the minute, and this was 30 years ago. You can’t just be wandering around delivering parcels and make money at it.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:51 am

    @satby:

    Oh, and totally bizarre dreams too.

    Cooooooooollll.

  49. 49.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 7:51 am

    Put another way – try this on for size. At your local grocer, the cashier is free to announce “black customer with EBT card at register 6”. Nothing else – just the identification of a customer.

    Dipshit True Progressivism always has unintended negative consequences.

  50. 50.

    The Simp in the Suit

    March 3, 2018 at 7:52 am

    @Brachiator:

    ETA. As long as the white customers have the option of paying the $12 price, I don’t think there is anything illegal about this, as another poster suggests.

    Maybe. Depending upon the involvement of Tulane, this may transgress ethics regulations developed from the negative outcomes of research like the Milgram experiments. Generally you’re not allowed to experiment on people without their knowledge or permission.

  51. 51.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 7:53 am

    @JGabriel:

    How does one collect deer jizz?

  52. 52.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:53 am

    @Brachiator:

    Because it’s a grift. They have to be constantly “threatened” or grifters like Huckabee can’t tap them for cash and live in those big houses.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    March 3, 2018 at 7:54 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: First, you need to stream some deer porn….

  54. 54.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    How does one collect deer jizz?

    Very carefully, one would imagine.

  55. 55.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @JR: By the time they’re done their car is a piece of shit that not even a junkyard would give more than scrap money for.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 7:58 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    For some, beating up gays was a rite of passage without which one could not graduate from high school. And that was when I was in HS.

    I know, but “beating people up in school” used to be acceptable, so if you were to apply a hate crimes analysis you’d still have the underlying offense.

    I look at that now and I’m like “WTF were we thinking with that?” Sure- beat the shit out of each other! It’s a rite of passage!

  57. 57.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:00 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Very carefully.

    @JGabriel: beat me to it.

  58. 58.

    Boudica

    March 3, 2018 at 8:03 am

    Hour 26 of no power here in NOVA. It was a cold night! Told hubby we’re going to a hotel tonight if still no power!

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 8:05 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    to illustrate how much they’d be willing to pay for accommodations were the liberty of price discrimination to be reinstated.

    The “liberty price of discrimination” always has been racist exclusion. Still is.

    Also, you still have egregious examples where people of color are charged higher prices for inferior service. For example, from 2016.

    Toyota’s auto-loan division has agreed to pay $21.9 million in restitution to thousands of black, Pacific Islander, and Asian customers whom the government said were charged higher interest rates than white borrowers.

  60. 60.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 8:06 am

    So far, more than 80 percent of white customers have opted to pay the higher price, and Wey realized that he had been underestimating the power of social pressure.

    Yeah, the tactic of identifying your customers racially and giving them a lecture so as to create social pressure would never be misused by white conservatives on the knife edge of a CRA violation.

    “Here at Piggly Wiggly, we care about fiscal responsibility in all communities, but particularly those of color. Each customer using EBT benefits should go through the register with the cashier trained to properly separate EBT purchases from cash purchases, except for Thursdays and Sundays, which are her days off. The customer will get a pamphlet that explains how welfare has harmed black communities and how it is really theft from hard working white people.”

  61. 61.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 8:06 am

    I was the volunteer bartender at a charity event last night. It’s been so long I forgot how people wait in line at the bar and then can’t decide when they get there. Use this time to ponder your choices! Stay focused! It’s good I left food service young, when I was still nice. After 3 hours I was ready to strangle them.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:08 am

    @Kay: I knew a guy in HS who would wear a long sleeve shirt or jacket, and slide 2 billy clubs up the sleeves. Then he’d go out and pick a fight. Thought that was the most fun he’d ever had. It took a while but he finally picked on the wrong person. Ended up on an OR table with a half dozen knife wounds in his chest. For some reason or other, he was a different person after that.

  63. 63.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    March 3, 2018 at 8:09 am

    @glory b: Wow. That’s a R+11 district. For example, Mississippi is a R+9 state. R+11 and he’s cutting and running from the Rs.

  64. 64.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 8:09 am

    @Kay:

    Ben Shapiro, James O’Keefe and Charlie Kirk are what you wind up with if you crush beat downs and bullying in school.

  65. 65.

    Amir Khalid

    March 3, 2018 at 8:09 am

    It’s snowing heavily in England today, it seems. Undersoil heating has saved this weekend’s Premier League programme, but only 11 matches are going on in the other three tiers of English pro football. Here’s a Grauniad collection of photos from snowy match days.

  66. 66.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 8:11 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Things have a way of leveling.

  67. 67.

    debbie

    March 3, 2018 at 8:11 am

    Moosche is on NPR now bad-mouthing Kelly, condemning the “martial” atmosphere in the White House, and bemoaning the lack of entrepreneurship in the administration. As if free-wheeling is the way to run a country!

  68. 68.

    oldgold

    March 3, 2018 at 8:13 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Endearingly

  69. 69.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:14 am

    @Boudica: Leave your faucets dripping.

  70. 70.

    debbie

    March 3, 2018 at 8:15 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Jorma is a god! Hot Tuna never received the attention they deserved. My cousin’s husband travels to Jorma’s Fur Peace Ranch for music a couple of times every month.

  71. 71.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 8:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    They’re doing research now not on bullies or abusers but on what happens to people in those environments to make them passive- why don’t they intervene. The thinking is there will always be sick pups who abuse so we need to figure out how to motivate the surrounding people to make it unacceptable. They think it’s tied to shame. That observing or knowing about it and doing nothing makes people feel complicit – brings them in- so you end up with a really sick environment.

    I don’t know the science but I had an abusive 5th grade teacher – she was admired by parents because of her “toughness” but she was a fucking monster. She came up behind one girl and scared her so much the girl wet her pants. Anyway, she used to humiliate this one boy- he was her daily target- and I would just die. It made me hugely uncomfortable and sort of panicked, like “someone has to do something!” but too scared to do it myself. He’s a grade school social studies teacher now. I hope he’s kind to his students.

  72. 72.

    Aimai

    March 3, 2018 at 8:17 am

    @Kay: its kind of a stupid experiment—badly designed and really poorly explored and punituve/inhumane to the test subjects. Its more a piece of theater or propaganda that abuses snd potentially humiliates the subjects (some diners) to prove a point or demonstrate a political and moral issue.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 8:17 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    The customer will get a pamphlet that explains how welfare has harmed black communities and how it is really theft from hard working white people.”

    State governments and the Trump Administration is doing this as they work to make poor and nonwhite people Second Class citizens. What’s your point?

  74. 74.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    March 3, 2018 at 8:19 am

    @HeleninEire: Power here went out for the second time some time over night. Fortunately we have a gas stove, so we could make breakfast and do the clean up camping style, in water heated on the fire.

  75. 75.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:19 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yeah, it took a few years tho.

  76. 76.

    Lapassionara

    March 3, 2018 at 8:20 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I despise Uber and refuse to use it. Never even considered using Lyft.

    Mr LP and I were always classified as independent contractors for tax purposes. Self employment taxes take a bite out of income, as it is taken before deductions. I remember well when Reagan “solved” the Social Security “crisis” by both raising the rate and the cap. Making those quarterly payments was often difficult, until I found a job that actually paid real money.

    Not to mention the effect on NYC taxi drivers.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 8:27 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Yeah, I disagree. I think the trajectory has been almost exactly like spousal abuse. You can’t walk up to someone and hit them in the street. Therefore, you can’t do that to people you know in school or your home.

    I know the anti-bullying initiatives scooped up some innocents because there was the usual idiocy on the part of adults where they refused to use common sense, but that’s working itself out and we’ll be better people for not beating, getting beaten, or watching others get beaten in school. We’re not asking an awful lot of them- we’re asking them to treat others decently- not love their classmates, not be friends with them, but just stop targeting them. They don’t have to DO anything- they just have to stop doing bad things. That’s a good lesson. They can handle that. And they are.

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:29 am

    @Kay:

    what happens to people in those environments to make them passive- why don’t they intervene.

    In my case it was because I didn’t want to get the shit kicked out of me. Dave was one tough MF’er and the best thing I could do was stay the fuck away from him. Sooner or later things were gonna get bad and not just for him, but for those around him.

    I don’t know the science but I had an abusive 5th grade teacher – she was admired by parents because of her “toughness” but she was a fucking monster.

    Sister Kathleen for me, 5th and 6th grades. She turned me and most of the rest of my class into monsters. We terrorized the school. WTF are they gonna do? Put us in Sister Kathleen’s class?

  79. 79.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 3, 2018 at 8:34 am

    Went out to a nearby diner for breakfast. It is a balmy 52 inside my house with no power, and this place has electrical outlets and WiFi and hot food and coffee. Hope I get power back today.

  80. 80.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    March 3, 2018 at 8:43 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Meanwhile inline ads around the margins are telling me to sign up for Lyft and be my own boss.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It was just such a shock. My 2nd grade teacher played acoustic guitar and loved us. My 4th grade teacher would voluntarily sit with us at lunch and ask us about our lives. Then I get this monster who ridicules people for throwing up, who makes a big show out of the girl who had to eat a mid-morning snack because she was diabetic. I mean, Christ, I’m a 5th grader and I know the polite thing to do is ignore that this girl has to eat in the morning, she’s been with us since kindergarten, we all knows she’s diabetic – I was dying. It doesn’t just harm the bullied. It harms the watchers.

  82. 82.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I knew a guy in HS who would wear a long sleeve shirt or jacket, and slide 2 billy clubs up the sleeves. Then he’d go out and pick a fight.

    A coworker would talk about his friend who would go to a bar, get drunk and deliberately start fights, even though he typically would get his ass handed to him. It’s weird. I guess some people need that thrill.

    Apparently the someone would take a swing at the coworker as well, thinking he was a combatant as well, so he had to stop going to the bar with the guy, just out of a sense of self preservation.

  83. 83.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: He’ll only run from them until he wins. By his victory speech, he’ll be back. But hopefully he won’t get a victory speech!!

  84. 84.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @Kay: I don’t recall the details, but someone yesterday posted about a study that showed that shame doesn’t motivate you to change, but guilt does. I thought of that when I read your comment.

  85. 85.

    germy

    March 3, 2018 at 8:51 am

    I now face another vicious attack from lawyers in Washington D. C. and San Francisco who have hired one of the biggest firms in Birmingham Alabama to bring another legal action against me and ensure that I never fight again.

    However, I will trust God that he will allow truth to prevail against the unholy forces of evil behind their attack.

    I have lawyers who want to help but they are not without cost and besides their fees, legal expenses could run over $100,000. I have had to establish a “legal defense fund, anything you give will be appreciated.

    The liberal media, in association with some who want to destroy our Country do not want my influence in the 2018 elections and are doing everything they can to stop me.

    Gays, lesbians, and transgenders have joined forces with those who believe in abortion, sodomy, and destruction of all that we hold dear. Unless we stand together we will lose our Country.

    Christians can no longer afford to remain silent in these “perilous” times. For we know that in such time men shall become lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.

    We must fight, an appeal to the God of Heaven is all that is left us!

    Please help me fight this battle for the heart and soul of this Nation. Your financial contribution to my legal defense fund is crucial.

    After over 40 years of public service I cannot back down now.

    When I stood to bring these values and truths to Washington D. C. I was forced to fight the Washington establishment, the Republican Party, the Democrat Party, the ultra-liberal media and people such asGeorge Soros, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and many others who fear the truth.

    I’m sure that you cannot imagine how this has taken a toll on my wife, my children, and even my friends.

    My resources have been depleted and I have struggled to make ends meet, but I have not lost my faith in our God, who is our true source of strength and will never leave or forsake us.

    – Roy Moore

  86. 86.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @Gin & Tonic: For some reason, my old furnace stopped working on Christmas. Multiple times. For me, 55 was the lower limit of what I could live with. You’re past that, hope you can stay with a friend or find some other place to stay.

  87. 87.

    msdc

    March 3, 2018 at 8:52 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Dipshit True Progressivism always has unintended negative consequences.

    But we accompany our price discrimination with a condescending lecture, so it can’t possibly blow up in our faces!

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 8:52 am

    @Lapassionara:

    I despise Uber and refuse to use it. Never even considered using Lyft.

    I’ve used Uber a few times and it was far superior to local taxi service. But I try not to use it because I hate their current business model, hate the management and hate the way they treat their drivers.

    I’d like to see someone make the business model work.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @Kay: I had Sister Mary Francis in the 4th grade, one of the sweetest women this 9 yr old had ever met. I got whiplash my first day with Sister Kathleen, literally. Slapped me so hard I almost fell out of my desk. I don’t remember what I did only that the transgression in my mind was so trivial that I only expected a stare of disappointment.

  90. 90.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @germy: Ugh.

  91. 91.

    germy

    March 3, 2018 at 8:57 am

    @WaterGirl: Soros!

  92. 92.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:58 am

    Now that we’ve had the reports about 4 foreign countries and Jared, we need the expose about how the steel industry (and others) have talked about how Trump is easily manipulated and can easily be taken advantage of.

  93. 93.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @Brachiator: I learned the hard way that some people should just be avoided. Not because they are mean or violent when they get drunk but because they get just plain stupid and are as likely as not to get me killed.

  94. 94.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @germy: I am really hoping that he gets a pathetic number of donations, totally at pathetically low number for donation money raised.

  95. 95.

    Matt McIrvin

    March 3, 2018 at 9:00 am

    @Brachiator: I always remember how the most recent wave of whining about the “War On Christmas” started with a huge aggrieved rant by Bill O’Reilly almost immediately after George W. Bush had won reelection with total control of the government. The religious conservatives had just won everything, the articles were running about how “values voters” were the key and needed to be pandered to, and it inspired them to act like a persecuted minority.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 9:01 am

    @germy: If there is a God, Roy Moore will die a drunk on skid row.

  97. 97.

    AliceBlue

    March 3, 2018 at 9:02 am

    @Kay:
    My 8th grade math teacher was a horror. He humiliated one girl at the blackboard so badly that she ran from the room in tears. I was absolutely terrified every time I was in that class. Needless to say, I didn’t learn much of anything.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 9:02 am

    @WaterGirl:

    I hadn’t considered how even an overture by Jared that fails is out of bounds, because then they know what he wants and can use that. I think Jared is in serious trouble. This isn’t going away.

    I’m ridiculously pleased because I wanted some consequences for the nepotism.

  99. 99.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 3, 2018 at 9:04 am

    @germy: Maybe God can write him a check.

  100. 100.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 9:04 am

    I’,thinking that Kelly wants to be the last man standing so he alone can be the real president in the shadows, without anyone else who can get trump’s ear after him. Reminds me of the way abusers isolate their victims for powering control. Kelly terrifies me.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 9:05 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    and it inspired them to act like a persecuted minority.

    The loudest Christians have always acted like a persecuted minority, it’s part of what identifies them as Christians.

  102. 102.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 9:07 am

    @AliceBlue:

    I don’t remember whole chunks of 5th grade. We had this self-directed reading program, SRA, maybe you remember that. I went nuts with that. If I was reading I was somewhere else. I was like up to “olive” – the advanced green hues, not your basic colors, by October. Just cranking that shit out. Anything to leave that room, at least mentally.

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 9:07 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I got whiplash my first day with Sister Kathleen, literally. Slapped me so hard I almost fell out of my desk.

    Wow. I don’t understand why the parents put up with that? Respecting the authority of religious people??

    My mother is not a violent person, but she was fiercely protective of her kids. She would have gone to the school and hit that nun so hard that she wouldn’t have been able to see straight for days.

    I grew up in a school system that allowed corporal punishment, but my mother made clear that she was not putting up with that shit.

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    March 3, 2018 at 9:08 am

    After the fact, but anyway –

    Mom called me up with effusive thanks for having sent her one of these, which she found a welcome boon when the power went out during the nor’easter. It often shows up on Amazon’s lightning sales.

  105. 105.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 9:10 am

    @Kay: I had never considered that, either.

    I think this is only the beginning – now that the dam of accusations has opened, we are going to see a flood of accusations about Jared. This is the family has never experienced the natural consequences of their behavior; this is a rude awakening for them. I can understand how Jared would feel shell shocked, but I have no sympathy.

    OT, Trump has ruined the word “very” for me. Every time I start to type it I think of him and his overuse of that word, and I end up rewording my sentence. That’s the least of the things he has taken away from us, yet I hate him for this, too.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    March 3, 2018 at 9:13 am

    @NotMax: One time when my power went out in the neighborhood, I lit so many candles throughout the house that my neighbor called and asked if I had power.

    Nice that your mom called to thank you. 110-hour battery. Wow!

  107. 107.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    March 3, 2018 at 9:14 am

    @Kay: There’s a book about raising girls called Queen Bees and Wanna Be’s. It’s what Tina Fey based “Mean Girls” on. It gives advice on parenting if your kid is a bully, is the victim, or is a bystander. I found that last part really interesting.

  108. 108.

    Emma

    March 3, 2018 at 9:15 am

    Since my father’s accident I have had to use Uber regularly because in my neck of the wood taxi service stinks. I talk to the drivers regularly. I ask three questions in the course of the conversation: 1. Part time or full time? 2. Why do you do it? 3. Where are you from?

    The results of this (very unscientific) survey is as follows: 98% are part-time drivers. A sizable minority are college/trade school students making a little extra to supplement loans/scholarships. Another group use Uber as a second job because they can set their own hours while they’re job hunting or working a miserable minimum wage job. A lot of the women drivers also have school age children and can earn a bit extra while the kids are in school.No surprise this being Miami, most are immigrants, and most see Uber as a temporary stepping stone.

    All of them are aware that management is ripping them off in some fashion but tbey have done their math and figure they come out ahead. One is leaving Uber because after several years of part-time driving he and his wife have put together the down payment for a starter home.They see themselves as using Uber as much as Uber is using them.It is a different mindset.

  109. 109.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    March 3, 2018 at 9:20 am

    @NotMax: I remember reading an article about improvements in energy storage technology some years back in an engineering magazine and not thinking too much about it.

    But a couple years ago I found out you can now get a car jump starter which is a handheld device about the size of a portable drill. If you remember to keep it charged, you don’t have to worry about being stranded by a dead battery. That’s pretty amazing. (ETA I have one and it has bailed me and others out several times)

    Anyway I thought your link was going to be some similar compact power backup device for the home. It’s not, but now I’m wondering what’s on the market (as an alternative to gasoline powered generators). I was involved in a purchase of computer uninterrupted power supplies many years ago, and I imagine the technology has improved a little since the 80s.

  110. 110.

    AliceBlue

    March 3, 2018 at 9:20 am

    @Kay:
    Oh gosh I had forgotten about SRA but I remember it now! I love to read and I think I got about as high as you could go with that.

  111. 111.

    Amir Khalid

    March 3, 2018 at 9:21 am

    @WaterGirl:
    Trump’s an example of how not to use intensifiers like “very”. The less often you use them, the more impact they will have when you really need them.

  112. 112.

    rikyrah

    March 3, 2018 at 9:25 am

    @clay:

    Yeah…uh huh
    Nothing crooked here….

    whatever.

  113. 113.

    rikyrah

    March 3, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Have a good time :)

  114. 114.

    FlyingToaster (Tablet)

    March 3, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @Kay: We’ve just gone through this — my daughter’s teachers allowed a bully to operate for 3 months, despite our and others’ complaints. WarriorGirl finally had enough and went for him in gym class. This got school administration involved; the bullying has stopped cold. This hasn’t been perfect — admin hadn’t informed two subject teachers what was going on. I took that upon myself, since several of the incidents happened in their classrooms.

    Our vice principal opined that the teachers would want to meet with me. I was, um, sceptical. I’ve been proven right; they really don’t want to have to explain themselves; and they are rumored to be afraid that I’ll invoke the mandatory arbitration clause in our contract. Heh.

    The school counselor recommended that we get counseling for WG; I replied, “How does counseling help with the fact that her teachers either think she and we are lying, or they condone bullying?” Instead she’s meeting the counselor 20 minutes a week, mostly to develop coping skills for this shitshow; secondarily to keep admin in the loop on how crap-ass her teachers are in classroom management.

  115. 115.

    Betty Cracker

    March 3, 2018 at 9:30 am

    @Kay: Agree completely.

    @germy: I hope it’s true that he’s broke.

  116. 116.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 9:32 am

    @Brachiator: My mother didn’t know. As a converted Baptist she had no idea. My old man was traveling all the time, home for the wkends. Everybody at the school knew, had to know because the screaming could be heard all thru the school. But the Catholic hierarchy held true: If you don’t talk about it, it isn’t really happening. The year after I left the school Sister Kathleen fucked up. Slapped a girl… while holding her keychain containing dozens of keys in her hand. I heard it took 80 plus stitches to put that girls face back together. I also heard that her order shipped her off to Colombia.Problem solved! Quite the scandal.

    20 years or so later my mother apologized to me. Said she knew that something was wrong but had no idea what it was. That none of her 6 kids talked much, but that I had just STFU. I don’t blame her. It was true, I didn’t say anything.

  117. 117.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 9:35 am

    @WaterGirl: Jared’s father spent 2 years in prison. Proof that you just can’t fix stupid.

  118. 118.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    March 3, 2018 at 9:39 am

    @msdc: The whole point is it’s only “condescending” to the people of privilege. Black patrons weren’t uncomfortable with it. White people were. It’s not the world’s greatest designed scientific experiment, nor is it a business model fit for wide adoption, but it highlights a pretty good example of how White Supremacy conditions us (white people) to be so defensive and fragile any time our privilege is highlighted or we’re asked to do something about it. The 80% success rate surprised me but I think it’s an interesting avenue to explore in future experiments as far as the role that public encouragement/shaming plays in our decisions. Problem is, a lot of those people would also probably go home and vote for a Republican to crack down on the welfare state. Still interesting though. Also the part about people of privilege wanting to find a quick solution rings very true to me as well, from my own personal experience.

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    March 3, 2018 at 9:40 am

    @Kay:

    I hadn’t considered how even an overture by Jared that fails is out of bounds, because then they know what he wants and can use that. I think Jared is in serious trouble. This isn’t going away.

    Not only is it NOT going away.
    I think they’re delusional, thinking that giving up Jared is gonna slow this down.
    UH UH
    Jared isn’t honorable. He’s not going down alone – you best believe that.

  120. 120.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 9:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I actually approve of the grift – I like the idea of separating conservative evangelicals from
    their money so it can go down a rathole. I want it to be frequent, I want it painful – the price for being a constimatooshinal conservative should be high.

  121. 121.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 9:50 am

    @Kay:

    I loved SRA.

    My 5th grade year was a horrorshow overall, though. Lots of angry phrases next to Ds and Us on my report card. Something about attitude.

  122. 122.

    rikyrah

    March 3, 2018 at 9:53 am

    @WaterGirl:

    I’,thinking that Kelly wants to be the last man standing so he alone can be the real president in the shadows, without anyone else who can get trump’s ear after him. Reminds me of the way abusers isolate their victims for powering control. Kelly terrifies me.

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

  123. 123.

    Thoughtful David

    March 3, 2018 at 9:57 am

    @Brachiator:
    Uber’s business model is basically a) heavy subsidies, b) skirt regulation, and c) screw the employees. How exactly do you see someone fixing that business model?

  124. 124.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    March 3, 2018 at 10:01 am

    @Thoughtful David: I’ve never used Uber, but as I think about it, what is most appealing is being able to put an app on your phone, use it, and have the closest car come. I think you can have a credit card on file with them so you don’t have to worry about that. It all feels easier than phoning a cab company, but I don’t see why cab companies can’t use a system like that.

  125. 125.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 3, 2018 at 10:07 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Same here, but if there is a God, Moore will still die a drunk on skidrow.

  126. 126.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 3, 2018 at 10:10 am

    @Uncle Ebeneezer:

    For the past 35 years, I’ve watched conservatives chisel rhetorical space around the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Even when I identified as conservative, I saw the CRA and the VRA (particularly with preclearance provisions, which i thought should be extended nationwide). My position then, as now, was that no for-profit business has any good reason to sort customers by race, gender, creed or orientation for trade. Unfortunately, rhetorical space the conservatives have chiseled – and it’s working for a large cohort is the predictable “muh liberties ‘n freedoms”.

    This poorly planned “experiment” feeds right into that framing, because it provides a “see, liberals did that” excuse.

  127. 127.

    Thoughtful David

    March 3, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
    I think most cab companies already have all of that. But they’re not able to compete because of a) heavy subsidies.
    I think there could be an advantage to some people who want to drive part time and when they want to. But that could be done without the problems of a, b, and c.

  128. 128.

    tybee

    March 3, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @Raven: from years ago. the gent on the left ain’t too shabby a player either.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT196UksWxc

  129. 129.

    tybee

    March 3, 2018 at 10:25 am

    @tybee: and one more…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ0onxQIY_w&list=RDcJ0onxQIY_w&t=9

  130. 130.

    Kay

    March 3, 2018 at 10:32 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I had a 70 year old magistrate get all emotional telling me how he was bullied at school because he had one leg shorter than the other- he wore a built-up shoe. Successful lawyer for 30 years, then a magistrate- an appointed position that depends almost wholly on how much clout in the community one has- all those years later he still remembers it. They tortured him – imagine that, day after day, year after year, in a rural community where you’re stuck with those people k-12.

  131. 131.

    evodevo

    March 3, 2018 at 10:43 am

    @satby: Is it “decongestant” ? Or antihistamine? If the latter those act as sedatives. The former act like speed …

  132. 132.

    Anotherlurker

    March 3, 2018 at 10:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I had the same experience in catholic school. My younger brother, a 2nd grader at the time, committe the ultimate sin of talking in class. Sister Rose Genevieve grabbed hin by the right ear, hauled him from his seat and banged his head on the desk. He is nearly totally deaf in that ear. He is 63.
    My experience was with Father Soave, one of 2 pedophiles who were in my parish, at the same time. This asshole used to hang out in the boys locker room. He cornered me after my shower, grabbed my junk and told me that if I wanted to go out for football, I needed to come to the rectory that night to be fitted for an athletic supporter. I never showed up and for the next 5 years I was the recipient of passive agressive bullying. “You are going to be a loser if you don’t respect authority” was the nonsense that he tossed my way, whenever he could. I find out that he used this tactic on many other boys from my school. We talked about him during a class reunion and the stories came out.
    Between this pervert and the psycho nuns, I was convinced that there was something wrong with me because I instinctually mistrusted authority and doubted the validity of religion. I was wracked with guilt all my life. At 65 I’m still in therapy. I am revolted at the sight of clerical garb. I experience strong “fight or flight” reaction.
    Religious education is child abuse, IMHO.
    Thanks for letting me rant.

  133. 133.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @Thoughtful David:

    Uber’s business model is basically a) heavy subsidies, b) skirt regulation, and c) screw the employees. How exactly do you see someone fixing that business model?

    Existing cab companies survive on donations to politicians, abuse regulations and screw their employees. I’d say it’s a wash.

    In Los Angeles, the cab and transportation companies prevented the Green Line rail service from directly serving LAX. And this is in a city where taxi service is already sparse.

  134. 134.

    Doug R

    March 3, 2018 at 11:07 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    While the cause is ideologically noble, it is illegal. He’s gotta stop.

    My income at its highest was right at NOLA median, our household net worth will be about twice that of an AA household. Now that I’m retired, pretty sure it’s not really going up. I’m thinking a $20 lunch would be fairer.
    Sounds awkward.

  135. 135.

    James E. Powell

    March 3, 2018 at 11:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The loudest Christians have always acted like a persecuted minority, it’s part of what identifies them as Christians.

    Do Christians all over the world act like this, or is it just our white supremacists who use Christianity as a shield for their bigotry?

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 11:19 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I also heard that her order shipped her off to Colombia.Problem solved!

    Funny how often the Church falls back on that solution.

    I understand your mother’s dilemma. You can’t do anything if you don’t know about it.

    I only went to Catholic school for one year. I was technically too young to start first grade in public school. But my mother took off work and took me to school for a couple of days and personally checked out the home room teacher.

  137. 137.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 11:30 am

    @James E. Powell:

    Do Christians all over the world act like this, or is it just our white supremacists who use Christianity as a shield for their bigotry?

    It’s also happening in Europe and in some of the former Soviet bloc countries, most recently in Hungary. Also in some African countries, often as part of an anti-gay backlash.

  138. 138.

    germy

    March 3, 2018 at 11:32 am

    Roy Moore has been soliciting donations since January, and is only at $32,000 of the $250,000 he’s looking for.

  139. 139.

    Doug R

    March 3, 2018 at 11:49 am

    @JR:

    However, any wage calculation has to factor in the fact that the drivers get to keep their car as an asset when they’re done. That won’t make their wages livable but it might bump things up to minimum or so.

    Except that the more you drive your car, the less it’s worth. Enough miles and you’re outrunning your car loan..

  140. 140.

    Mnemosyne

    March 3, 2018 at 11:49 am

    I only went to Catholic school until 4th grade, and by the late 1970s it was almost all lay teachers, with a few nuns scattered in. My bullying teacher was at public school. She only knew one way to teach English, and it freaked her out that I was reading at a college level in 7th grade and had zero interest in learning to diagram sentences. She thought I didn’t respect her, and she was right.

  141. 141.

    Doug R

    March 3, 2018 at 11:51 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    How does one collect deer jizz?

    Very carefully.

  142. 142.

    Brachiator

    March 3, 2018 at 12:07 pm

    @JR:

    However, any wage calculation has to factor in the fact that the drivers get to keep their car as an asset when they’re done.

    The value of the car declines rapidly due to wear and tear and depreciation. The new tax law might help some Uber drivers if they use their car more than 50 percent for business, but this is still not the same as earning more money.

  143. 143.

    Doug R

    March 3, 2018 at 12:07 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Anyway I thought your link was going to be some similar compact power backup device for the home. It’s not, but now I’m wondering what’s on the market (as an alternative to gasoline powered generators). I was involved in a purchase of computer uninterrupted power supplies many years ago, and I imagine the technology has improved a little since the 80s.

    The Japanese have been experimenting with using electric cars as emergency power for houses, well more like an extra battery to absorb power at off peak times that you use in peak times, but it could work in an outage-Japan gets lots of earthquakes after all.

  144. 144.

    Doug R

    March 3, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    Electric-car buff uses vehicle to power Saanich house during storm
    What a shock-the granola/banana belt of Canada.

  145. 145.

    'Niques (lurker; occasional commenter)

    March 3, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): The other nice thing about the Uber app is that you know going in what the ride will cost . . . no driver taking the long way to bump up the price. At the same time, I’ve had a driver deliberately take the long way (at no extra charge) through San Francisco when he realized we were tourists.

  146. 146.

    smintheus

    March 3, 2018 at 1:58 pm

    @Kay: I would never go back to the guy’s shop…or for that matter, to a shop that ‘urged’ blacks to consider paying 250% of the prices that whites were paying because the shopowner thought blacks bore collective responsibility for some social ill. I don’t support racist @zzh0les, and that’s what this shopowner is.

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