Last night, Trump told the crowd at the Gridiron dinner that Maxine Waters needs an IQ test. And the Sunday Post has a story on how unhinged he is, with 22 sources from the White House.
In other words, it’s Sunday. Open Thread.
Reader Interactions
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Corner Stone
When are these brave truth tellers going to resign and state this fact on record?
Baud
To be fair, you could also have picked any other day of the week and it would have been a good guess.
Corner Stone
Maxine is on Joy right now ripping Trump’s ass.
Brachiator
Golly gee. Asshole Trump publicly insulting someone who is black and female. So fucking typical that it is not even news.
Baud
@Brachiator: It’s like he thinks he’s Levi Sanders.
Cheryl Rofer
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Yup!
Fair Economist
So fits of paranoid insanity are fairly routine with Trump. Can’t say I’m surprised.
@Cheryl Rofer: Not new, but yet another example of “can you imagine the firestorm if Clinton or Obama had done that?”
Montysano
The list of “If Hillary had said…” or “If Obama had done…” is virtually endless. Imagine Obama joking about “maybe we should try out President for life” or suggesting “take guns, worry about due process later”.
It’s f**king exhausting.
Mart
I tried to stop myself but skipped over his hate filled speech – except he loves the dreamers, and as we all know the R’s love the dreamers more than the D’s. Got all his normal digs, even worked Pocahontas into the mix. Can not quite figure how 40 to 45% of our country thinks this is winning…
Nicole
As I said on one of the earlier threads, the only thing Trump has shown himself to be good at is projection. So who needs the IQ test?
NotMax
Open thread?
May have been because was primed and in the mood for something silly but had an unexpectedly enjoyable time with an unpretentious little German movie found on Amazon Prime, A Raven Called Poe. Slightly darkish comedy involving the Mafia.
Not an E-ticket attraction as these things go, still and all a fun ride. The two leads are both quite endearing. Would link to the trailer except that it gives away too many key scenes.
More than humorous enough to serve as a respite and provide decompression from the agita induced by goings-on in the political sphere.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
speaking of jokes, that may start the whole world laughing….
Aleta
Berkeley
Nicole
Also, there have been four covers of that song so far. Who knew? I like it fine, but it’s always been a bit of Lesser Phil Collins for me.
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: Um, it should have ended the first day.
He lied about how many people were there (and his staff supposedly paid those who were there), he lied about Mexico, etc., etc.
It was obvious that he was unfit on the first day. (And even before then, but who’s counting.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
I can only assume David Brooks will lecture Trump on civility in the coming week.
gene108
@Cheryl Rofer:
Should’ve ended, when he rode down the escalator and called Mexicans rapists. But that state,net and the wall catapulted him to the front of the GOP pack.
We are not civilized. Half this country is too racist for us to be civilized.
Aleta
Meanwhile Bannon is in Italy rousing up the ‘populism’ movement as the NYT calls it, which is to say growing the nazis in Europe.
Brachiator
@Aleta:
A retelling of Fahrenheit 451 begins on HBO in May.
Corner Stone
@Fair Economist:
Actually, no. I literally can not imagine either of them mocking and attempting to degrade a disabled person. For dark humor’s sake I can imagine a lot of the “what if” scenarios just to have my head explode. But Fox News and the VRWC notwithstanding, both HRC and Obama are decent people.
Baud
Some good news from AP
JGabriel
WaPo:
Well whose fault is that, Traitor Donald?
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
I know there are countless things to choose from, but that moment is the most infuriating of all. Should I ever speak to family members again, I will beat them senseless with this.
Corner Stone
Wilburrrr Ross just creeps me right the fuck out.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I would rather be sentenced to listening to the Bee Gees, uninterrupted, for a year, than have to listen to, or watch, Lying Littledick, or Devin Vladimirovich Nunesov
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: I cannot also imagine any sane adult bragging about getting two scoops of ice-cream, while their guests only got one.
No Drought No More
Quick! Everyone tune into MSNBC. It’s just been announced that Chris Christie is to speak of nobility. Chris Fucking Christie. Todays sermon: “the nobility of Hope Hicks”.
sukabi
Nice editorial on “Princess Ivanka’s role”.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What a wuss. Warner struggled mightily but eventually caved and minimumly smiled.
NotMax
@gene108
It began with him flagrantly going downhill and has continued unabated since.
Corner Stone
@debbie:
I have been tempted to ask them about Trump to see where they are now. But I’m not certain what the answer would be and if it’s the wrong one I will probably never speak to them again.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Conor Lamb’s closing ad. Looks pretty good to me, from what I know about a very tough district for a Dem. (I call it his closing ad because that’s what twitter is calling it. Vote is a week from Tuesday)
Brachiator
@NotMax:
I will check this out. Thanks. And if you have not seen it, heck, even if you have, on March 11, TCM shows the comedy masterpiece “Trouble in Paradise.” A must watch.
Corner Stone
Holy Crikey! Y’all, I think Melania was wearing yoga pants when she disembarked from Marine One. Whatever will the NYT think?!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@No Drought No More: I have things to do but I admit I am tempted to pour another cup of coffee and try to gauge where the Anti-Kushner is on the COS auditioning
Aleta
@Brachiator: That’s good.
Aleta
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I really like that ad! Giving credit to everyday working people who actually are the backbone of this country. They’re the real working class, not the closeted bigots and racists that cheer Trump on.
Amir Khalid
@Cheryl Rofer:
This kind of thing from Trump only serves to remind us that he was the choice of those who wanted an unfit person to be President, because he was their kind of unfit person, and because people they resented had had the nerve to say he was unfit.
Suzanne
@Mart:
40 to 45% of the country has an IQ below 90 and feels bad about that. More precisely, they feel jealous of the non-dumb.
At least 18 months ago, I called Trump 2016 “the primal scream of the white moron” and nothing that has happened since has contradicted that assessment in the slightest.
Brachiator
@Aleta:
Trump certainly knows how to play to the rubes.
Didn’t he claim that he didn’t use contraception during his swinging playboy days. Did he leave it up to the women? Someone should ask him how many abortions he’s paid for.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Right. Some things you just don’t want to know.
NotMax
@Brachiator
Keep in mind that one of the operative words is silly.
As for “Trouble in Paradise,” it is also a fine example of how skillfully Herbert Marshall concealed that he had a wooden leg.
? ?? Goku (aka Baka Amerikahito) ? ?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Nunes: “Colbert’s jokes are a danger to national security. Gee, coughTrumpcough, wouldn’t it be great if Colbert never got to tell a joke ever again?”
Spanky
@Corner Stone: Do I need to be alert enough to avoid pics of our national camel toe now? Please warn us now!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh yeah, that was a big old subtweet at JarVanka. “She realized she was becoming a distraction for the president and did the right thing”
Corner Stone
@sukabi: Pretty decent op-ed on Ivanka. She is much, much dirtier than anyone in the media has let on. Ivanka has the best PR team on the planet.
“and Trump’s favorite child, Ivanka, who holds an indeterminate public-facing position in the White House — or in real estate, or maybe fashion.”
“When an organization exists not to build buildings but to brand them, its business is optics. And Ivanka has long window-dressed the Trump Organization’s deals. She was born to make the shoddy look cute, to legitimize corruption.”
trollhattan
@Aleta:
Stirring up the right wing in Italy? Like that will ever wor…oh.
Roger Moore
It’s always projection with these assholes.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
The correct question is how many abortions did he promise to pay for? Remember who we’re talking about.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not a bad ad at all.
kindness
Only 22 sources? They weren’t trying very hard.
WereBear
@Suzanne: I like that. Perfect.
JDM
@Montysano: that’s not even new with Trump… or Bush, or Bush, or Reagan. Imagine any Democratic president imposing a freeze on wages and prices like Nixon did.
BTW, the Wikipedia page on Nixon’s doing the above is rather biased, in that it takes Nixon’s claims – that it was necessary and successful- as fact.
JGabriel
WaPo:
Traitor Donald won, Peter, because he conspired with a hostile foreign government to manipulate and rig the election in his favor. Trump’s “way of getting things done” is to break the law, even if that means committing treason.
Corner Stone
@JDM:
Is your phrase operative on the “and”? Because Obama froze federal wages IIRC.
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
OK, mad props for the obscure Bee Gees reference!
ETA: And of course, Nunes thinks the “danger to the country” is not that he IS a joke, but that Colbert is pointing it out.
Corner Stone
@Spanky: I’m still trying to recover from a case of the vapors while furiously searching Opinions in the NYT to see what I should think about it all.
woodrowfan
@JGabriel: IOWDs Congressman, he is bad but made the trains run on time???
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Miss Bianca: @SFAW: I’d forgotten that was a pre-disco BeeGees. That song makes “I gave my love a chicken…” sound like hard rock, and doesn’t even have the chuckle factor of “Cake out in the rain”
Brachiator
@NotMax:
RE. Herbert Marshall.
You spoiled a fun bit of trivia! Oh, well.
Marshall got an assist from the editing and direction.
ETA. James Arness of Gunsmoke fame had a pronounced limp due to a war wound. But you never knew it because of the camera work and use of doubles, shot from behind, during some scenes showing Marshall Matt Dillon walking.
Miss Bianca
@Aleta: Because OF COURSE they fucking are.
@Suzanne: “the primal scream of the white moron” – I am SO stealing this.
JPL
@Aleta: And people still wonder why teenage pregnancy rises under republicans.
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
They must have got funded with his approval or there would be more little Trumps running around.
Kelly
@Corner Stone: federal wages much less than economy wide wages and prices
MattF
I think it’s dawning on some Trumpites that, no, they’re not winning. As for the rest, there will always be a lickspittle hard core.
Magda in Black
@Suzanne:
…jealous, threatened and contemptuous. I run into a lot of contempt for college education, in my workplace. I’m the only one with one, and I’m told it’s a “waste.”
I would argue that the mere fact it taught me critical thinking, makes it not a “waste”
But I’m a latte’ liberal ☺️
Corner Stone
My God. Whatever you do, DO NOT look at the BBQ pic linked in Cole’s twit feed. The horror…the horror…
feebog
Despite his normal delusional state, I think it is beginning to dawn on Trumpov that the whole thing is unraveling and there is nothing he can do to put the genie back in the bottle. This is only going to get worse from here, as I think Kushner is next in the box and his indictment is imminent. Tick Tock MoFo.
condorcet runner-up
@Cheryl Rofer: yup. there are always going to be unhinged and deranged charlatans trying to run for office (ones with lots of money too!). but the people, with an assist by the press, are supppsed to laugh them off the stage. the biggest shocker for me has been just how nasty and mean nearly half of our voting population is deep down inside. any one of the other GOP candidates would have tried to lower taxes and loosen regulations. but only this clown spoke directly to the lizard brain.
i guess what i am saying is that i blame barry allen for messing up the timeline and leaving us in this alternate flashpoint universe. that is about as plausible an explanation as i can come up with.
WereBear
@Brachiator: They just gave the limp to his deputy.
MattF
@feebog: Yeah, I think cost/benefit of Trump/Kushner’s little money-laundering sideline has stopped working. Karma has been taking the long road around.
NotMax
@WereBear
Chester.
Brachiator
OT Roger Bannister, the first man to run the mile in under 4 minutes, has died.
No Drought No More
What a sad joke. Howard Dean drops the word “treason” in his remarks to MSNBC, and MSNBC didn’t blink.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@condorcet runner-up: I think being a TV celebrity helped Trump with a large portion of the population. People thought they knew him. They thought he was a businessman worth admiring.
germy
Nobody does self-deprecating humor like trump.
WereBear
@NotMax: That’s it! I could not pull it up.
Suzanne
@Magda in Black: I got into a pissing match with one of Cole’s friends on Book of Faces, and the friend was astonished to learn that I believe that I deserve a higher salary/wage than a blue-collar tradesperson. Friend said, “You’re an architect, you really think you deserve more than someone who actually builds your buildings?!”. I said yes, absolutely, design and engineering is harder and riskier than most construction, and that I pursued an advanced degree expecting financial returns from it.
I absolutely support trade schools and multiple paths to the middle class. But the vast majority of what we’re seeing is a bunch of lazy white dudes who felt entitled to pretty large incomes for not much effort, and are resentful that they’re now competing with minorities and women and immigrants. If they had actually developed their skill sets and moved out of their shithole towns and gotten over their white male entitlement, maybe they wouldn’t find themselves in their current situations.
Litlebritdifrnt
One of the great things about living in the UK other than free healthcare, lower prices, better standard of living etc., etc.,) is the fact that I haven’t come across a single person in the UK that thinks Trump is anything more than a deranged moron, pissed with power and scarily with his hand on the nuclear button. My poor DH tries not to speak in public because he doesn’t want people asking him “so how do you feel having a total wanker like Trump as president?” He usually replies “why do you think I am living over here now?” and leaves it at that. Really, I don’t think that there is a single person in the UK who thinks that Trump is a good thing, other than perhaps Nigel Farage and his minions. But then he (Farage) and his minions are all raging racists so it makes sense.
? Martin
@feebog:
I doubt that. He’s incapable of taking responsibility or blame for anything. In his mind he’s just a victim of the people around him who have failed him – probably right down to his kids.
marcopolo
Just here for a sec so I haven’t read the thread–if this is already posted by someone my apologies but here is Conor Lamb’s closing ad for the PA-18 special election a week from Tuesday. I think it is all kinds of awesome:
https://twitter.com/MediumBuying/status/970311872334454785
Everyone have a lovely Sunday!
condorcet runner-up
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I agree. There was a widespread belief early on (especially among the beltway pundits) that he was just ‘playing a character to appeal to the base,’ one of those sophisticated sounding but substantively nonsensical ‘truisms’ the beltway media likes to latch onto. And it was indicative of the horserace type reporting, focusing more on tactics rather than substance. The question was rarely asked whether the type of person willing to stoop this low is the type that should be anywhere near the levers of power. I guess we have our answer?
condorcet runner-up
@Suzanne: Not to mention a much higher level of liability. Who do the builders blame if something goes wrong?
? Martin
@Litlebritdifrnt: Well, it’s pretty freaking hard to find a Trump supporter here in California. And I’ll see your bewilderment at Trump and respond with a lesser intense bewilderment at Corbin. You guys deserve a lot better.
Roger Moore
@Magda in Black:
That’s what they hate the most. They interpret you pointing out the value of your education as you looking down your nose at them, thinking it makes you a better person.
Brachiator
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Is Theresa May really that much better? Just as empty if not as angry.
And BREXIT? Just as stupid a decision by UK voters as the dopes here who voted for Trump.
germy
Oklahoma teachers are planning a statewide strike
http://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-teachers-planning-a-statewide-strike
Yutsano
@marcopolo: It was linked, but well worth linking again.
@Litlebritdifrnt: The one positive in me emigrating is that, as long as there is a decent American expat community in the country, I’ll have work rather easily.
sukabi
@germy: ummm…pretty sure if Drumpf actually said that he didn’t understand what he was saying…he’ll probably be mad tweeting at Baldwin in a few hours for being a failing, unfunny actor.
oatler.
Just saw my first Trumpy Bear commercial this morning. What Thee Heck.
Suzanne
@Roger Moore:
My education did make me a better person. Not to say that I have more inherent worth than anyone else, but it was absolutely one of the transformative experiences of my life and I am better off for having it, even if I never worked for a wage another day of my life.
I ran across another bunch of barfola on Book of Faces a few months ago, in which the writer said that he wanted to stop hearing his friends talk about their travels and how expanding and exciting and enriching they were. Why? Because the writer couldn’t afford to travel and it made him feel bad. Fuck. If we are now not to talk about transformative experiences because some people don’t have them, then we are buying into our own marginalization.
Suzanne
@condorcet runner-up:
They blame us for everything, including wetting their panties when they sneeze. We’re used to it.
WaterGirl
@marcopolo: I had goosebumps by the end of that ad.
Kathleen
@Corner Stone: “She’s an independent woman who doesn’t need validation” (#HandMagTale@NYT)
germy
@sukabi: It’s from the transcript of the gridiron speech. Talking Points Memo printed the full transcript.
I don’t even know why I read it.
No Drought No More
Damn. To listen to the build-up by talking heads he’s getting on MSNBC, Jeff Sessions is a paragon of virtue standing tall when the chips are down (and yeah, I’m talking to you, too, Barbra Boxer). Who do those people think they’re kidding? Was Session’s perjury before the senate judiciary committee- and let’s not hesitate to call it what it was- was his perjury a slate wiped clean while I wasn’t looking?
Yutsano
@germy: Nope. Not leaving this boat. Fuck the mangoes.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
What’s the point of education if it doesn’t make you a better person?
Doesn’t mean that you have to look down at other people.
Trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Funded yes, funded by Trump, less likely given his tradition of not paying his debts.
Corner Stone
@Kathleen: “The Left just can’t get over the fact she’s a successful person in her own right, and they continue to be uncivil about every small detail.” #BoBoBrooks
Trollhattan
@Suzanne:
“Hidden Brain” today is about envy. Good episode.
Yutsano
@Corner Stone: I just want some enterprising journalist to ask Melania just one question.
Just one.
“Was it worth it?”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the main reason I’m not on Facebook is because it seems like it’s more trouble than it’s worth to decide who would see what I might want to post. It would never occur to me that I should decide what other people could post
Magda in Black
@Roger Moore:
It does ?
Corner Stone
OMG. Katrina Pierson is still alive? Time to go back to NFL Combine.
WereBear
They are so wrong!
It’s their behavior that makes me think I’m a better person.
Kathleen
@Corner Stone: #BoBo Addendum: “Michelle Obama bared her arms so both sides.”
Another Scott
@JGabriel:
He thinks that the way to get rich is to destroy the US economy, so that’s what he’s trying to do. He and Vlad are on the same page, and that’s one of the big reasons why he won’t do anything about Russia.
Cheers,
Scott.
Magda in Black
@Suzanne:
To be perfectly honest, my techs are highly skilled and deserve their money. Odd thing is, my bs come not from my blue collar hard working old school body men (collision repair) but from my fellow
office staff. Theres a big problem with monetizing education: if youre not using it to make MORE money, its wasted.
Not everyone wants, needs, or cares to go to college. Trade schools are highly important. Each person should have the opportunity to follow their interests……in my rose colored imaginary utopia.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
She bested a bunch of feeble dimwits to become the leader of the Conservatives, and hence PM. She’s not much more than one herself, but unlike Trump she’s at least presentable in public.
condorcet runner-up
@Suzanne: exactly.
Gelfling 545
@Aleta: And yet Melania had “permission” to have only one child. Interesting to know how they managed that. Still, if your partner is Trump, I guess abstinence can seem the better idea.
mozzerb
@? Martin: Corbyn is, to a first approximation, an UK Ber … Wilmer. So while I’m not a great enthusiast, when the options are him or the Tories Jezza looks pretty good. Basically, I’d rather have someone pursuing mostly reasonable leftish policies ineffectively than someone pursuing horrible right wing policies effectively (except for Brexit, of course — that was crazy to start with, but even then implementation has been a complete clusterfuck).
NotMax
@condorcet runner-up
And their total obliviousness to the fact that Godot would show up and leave again multiple times while waiting for that fervently promoted bit of magical thinking, the pivot.
Miss Bianca
@oatler.: Aren’t they deranged? I saw that ad too and all I could think was, “what the everloving fuck, this has got to be a joke.”
Sadly, no, according to some of the other jackals.
Suzanne
@Magda in Black: No argument from me. I just would not have gone six figures into debt for an advanced degree that wouldn’t give me returns on it. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that all working people deserve a middle-class lifestyle. It also doesn’t mean that I think that I deserve to live like the MOTU. I support robust options to university education. I also support free college education for those who want it.
But the notion that being educated shouldn’t have anything to do with my compensation is essentially asserting that my education was worthless, both to me and to society. Wrong. My education helped me develop some pretty fucking important skills, and I put my earning life on hold to develop those skills. I have zero problem accepting a larger salary than a drywall guy.
Miss Bianca
@No Drought No More: Yeah, but Al Franken had to go, because apparently he was the only one interested in actually holding Sessions’s feet to the fire. Not that that was the reason given, of course.
Actually, now that I think about it, I’m sure that part was completely coincidental. I love Big Sister.
Gex
@Aleta: Where is this from please?
Update: Nvm. Found it.
Chyron HR
I bet Low-IQ Maxine can’t even count to camel.
B.B.A.
@Corner Stone: I’ve had BBQ in Brooklyn, and that photo is an absurd misrepresentation of it. They may be effete hipsters but they like it piled high and drenched in sauce like everywhere else.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Enjoy the blessings while they last but I would argue that your smug complacency re: Britain is misplaced. Any country that voted for Brexit was animated by much the same snarling self-defeating truculent nativism as our poor benighted land. We are seeing the results of our national own-goal hissy-fit in real time whereas jolly old England, whose leadership appears to not understand or accept that with the severing of the responsibilities of the EU so too passes its priveleges (and more importantly, it’s protections), is haunches-wrappt about a ticking time-bomb.
Unwitting and witless seppuku by ballot is a feature we share as countries. Will say, as fucked as our sitch is in ‘Murica, I see gleams of hope, promise and correction in our institutions and (some, lots!) of our people. We are woke, many of us, and we would lIke *our* version of the country back, thank you very much. We may not win but we will not surrender without a fight. I don’t follow Britain’s politics closely, so perhaps I am unaware, but I don’t get the sense the folks in Great Britain (especially England, where most of this fatuous impulsive reactionary self-destructive entitled infantilism arises) have acknowledged much less come to grips with how badly Brexit will fuck you and your citizens. Livin’ inna fool’s paradise is grand. Till it ain’t. Good luck with that.
GB, post-Brexit: “Yeah, but we thought …”
EU countries: “In for a penny, in for a pound!”
Corner Stone
@B.B.A.: I’ve had it in Manhattan and it was pretty good. The owner/cooker was from Texas so that may explain it. They served brontosaurus size beef ribs, and while they were tasty they were just a bit much.
ETA, the photo had to be by design to draw the most clickbait, in conjunction with the stupid headline.
Magda in Black
@WereBear:
Amen
Another Scott
@poleaxedbyboatwork: It seems clear to this observer in NoVA that Brexit cannot and will not work. It seems clear to me that the UK leadership on all sides knows it too, but they are going through the motions in the hope that something will happen to allow them to claim that they “followed the will of the voters” and yet not lose their seats and their power when it all implodes.
The Ireland (EU member) / Northern Ireland (proposed non-EU member) border is only the most obvious conundrum.
It was interesting that John Major’s speech on the stupidity of Brexit got quite a bit of play on the BBC News (at least in the US broadcasts I saw). I wonder if his point of view will become more popular as the deadline approaches…
Cheers,
Scott.
Gex
@Suzanne: Those same dudes won’t hesitate to crap on the min wage increase movement. While your higher level skills should not earn you a higher wage, they are damn certain their higher skills should earn them a higher wage.
There literally nothing to their political and economic philosophy other than ME ME ME ME ME.
Magda in Black
@Gex:
This is because “they” have us all pointing at each other: ” He/She makes too much” when we all should be pointing upstream at the corporate overlords and saying ” They keep too much.”
Chip Daniels
@Suzanne:
In addition to the sense of entitlement from white dudes, the fact that our overall economy is trending female is giving them a deep sense of anxiety.
By trending female, what I mean is the jobs that men tend to excel at- muscular stuff like construction and heavy manufacturing- are slowly disappearing through offshoring and automation.
Meanwhile the jobs that women excel at- human interaction jobs like nursing, health care and service jobs- are the only ones growing.
A lot of guys see these “pink collar” jobs as not really “work”, a lesser thing that isn’t worthy of equal pay and respect.
Its dangerous to overgeneralize gender essentialism, but its true enough to cause a widespread unease in our economy.
El Caganer
The nobility of Hope Hicks? Will that be followed by the majesty of Rock? The fantasy of Roll?
Gex
@Brachiator: There are many routes to self improvement. College/university is but one.
I got into something online with a bunch of non-thinkers who were busy arguing that soda taxes won’t work and that the government shouldn’t interfere in the market.
I pointed out that these people argue that soda taxes won’t influence behavior but in every other area they argue that taxes provide disincentives to people. I also argued that the government already influenced the market for soda by heavily subsidizing cheap sugar and subsidizing health care via employer provided healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, and so on.
Then they started telling me I was a stuck up bitch thinking my degree made me better than them.
I do have a degree. But I didn’t learn any of that in school. Turns out bookstores, newspapers, periodicals, libraries, and the Internet have all kinds of information that is available to anyone. People can become informed if they read and think about something more than Fantasy Football and reality TV. It’s their refusal to think about anything of substance and just argue their hateful, ignorant gut when discussing policy that makes me think less of them. My degree has little to do with them choosing to be awful people. And even then I was respectful while they seethed with rage and resentment.
Kelly
@Chip Daniels: Even construction, mining, logging and farming require less muscle these days. My brother will retire from 42 years in construction this year, mostly moving dirt with heavy equipment. New equipment has air conditioning, power assisted controls and occasionally GPS guidance for the blade. Steady mechanization in all these fields in the last few decades
mozzerb
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Brexit was basically a straight choice between traditional British pragmatism and traditional British xenophobia. The xenophobia narrowly won.
Of course, the Leave campaign was full of blithe bullshit about how the UK would be much better off outside the EU, and the Remain campaign wasn’t particularly dynamic, and many people just wanted to push a FUCK YOU button. But the question was essentially “do you want to tell Johnny Foreigner to fuck off?” and much of the campaigning boiled down to AIEEE IMMIGRANTS MUST STOP THEM. So much the same dynamic that got Trump elected.
Public opinion has been very slowly shifting towards a realisation that this was basically shooting ourselves in the foot with a bazooka as more details have come out and May & Co have faffed around, but probably not fast enough to give MPs cover for doing something that might conceivably retrieve the situation, such as a second referendum on the actual terms.
@Another Scott: Yup, spot on.
Magda in Black
@Gex:
The general lack of curiosity among this particular group has always been astonishing to me. The information is all out there. I’m not necessarily smarter, I just care enough to want to know.
This is why I seldom get into conversations with such people. I would have to educate them back to about Recontruction Era first.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
When I went to Black Panther yesterday, I had to ask the ticket seller for an old person’s ticket. I’d take it as a compliment except he was about 18 so I assume everyone over 45 looks similarly aged to him.
charluckles
Let’s do it! An IQ contest. If the congresswoman is the winner she gets to take over the Oval Office.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Another Scott:
The state of Alaska where I live offers free survival training for commercial fisherfolk (fair number a women these days, happy to say). First principle when shit goes south: recognition. All correctives flow from this essential spring. If you don’t know (or in more human terms, if you obdurately stolidly self-defeatingly fucking *refuse* to see that there’s a problem, then you ain’t in no kinda position/condition to address it.
Agreed that unless both our countries step back from the precipice, we are fucked. And agreed that both our countries woke up after our respective elections as if inna Twilight Zonish surreal nightmare.
But the conservatives in Britain appear aware that Brexit will fuck them, but act as if they want to brazen it out and play dumb for the rubes and the zealots and the true believers (demagogue: “one who deliberately lies to people he knows to be stupid”) so that they can pass off government control to anyone else and then blame them when the wheels fall off. It’sa pre-disaster strammegy for a post-Brexit world.
Our sweethearts of the rodeo in the conservative acquiescence-in-the-face-of-treason petri-dish are engaging inna post-disaster stonewalling to try’n either get away with the culmination/apotheosis of Republicanism inna Trump admin or at minimum, secure seats in the both-sides lifeboat.
Whistling past the graveyard vs digging up the bodies for reinterrment elsewhere.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Of course not. But that’s because he’s not even a sane child. He wasn’t then and he hasn’t gotten any better with age. He’s like a 70 yr old bottle of two buck chuck, bad when new, has only gotten far worse with age.
germy
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Did you stay for the post-credits scene?
Another Scott
@Ruckus: Hey, two buck chuck isn’t that bad!!1
Cheers,
Scott.
(“It’s around $3.49 around here.”)
Litlebritdifrnt
@mozzerb: What he said. Basically everyone who voted leave were lied to and not only were they lied to they believed the bullshit lies 5billion for the NHS being one of the most egregious. They now know that they were lied to, they realize that BREXIT is a nightmare and is going to devastate the country. Sadly not the same can be said of Trump voters.
Just One More Canuck
@El Caganer: she breaks like the wind
Ruckus
@JPL:
What else can you do to make yourself feel better when republicans are in charge but to have a lot of sex? At least for a time it takes your mind off of politics.
Robert Sneddon
@poleaxedbyboatwork: The problem with Brexit is that whichever of the two main parties says “Stop!” and refuses to go ahead with the stupid idea will lose a big chunk of its voters to the UKIP. Sure the Conservatives have a large minority of voters who are anti-EU but so do the Labour Party which, despite its left-wing credentials has a lot of anti-immigrant xenophobes and outright racists and Little Englander types in its ranks. Areas of the country which are Labour heartlands voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, places like Sunderland which lives and dies on having a giant Japanese car plant there but few pro-Brexit voters there realised the only reason the car plant is in Sunderland is because it gave the owners unlimited access to the 500 million people of the EU for their product. Outside the EU it’s a white elephant.
Corbyn is trying to keep the Labour Party as a viable organisation capable of being in government again, not an endlessly out-of-power third party like the Liberal Democrats and to do that he has to go along with Brexit to keep twenty percent of his regular voters from defecting in the next election.
germy
Miss Bianca
@Ruckus:
ha ha! ouch!
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I’m seeing it today! Leaving in an hour to get to Canon City. So excited!
Yutsano
@Ruckus: Lack of sex education, a culture of shame and male superiority, even just being downright rebellious. There is also the lack in teenagers of understanding consequences. And of course no access to oral birth control or abortion. This is what happens in rural areas when kids have little to no hope.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
I think they liked that he fired people with glee. They all knew someone who should be fired, they might have even seen them in their mirror. But those people kept their jobs, because that was just easier for the boss. And few bosses actually fired someone in front of everyone else, this sideshow freak made that a TV show. A lot of vindictive people are fucking assholes because they often end up in life with far less than they feel is their lot. In drumpf they see one vindictive asshole who actually got what they think they deserve. They are just being supportive of one of their own.
WereBear
Yeah. He’s Fantasy Them.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
This was pretty funny, though:
Damn, I was mildly jonesin’ for barbecue earlier, and now all the pics of good barbecue in Cole’s feed are tantalizing me. Might have to summon the energy to put on my tactical gear (pants) and make a trip to Backyard BBQ.
Miss Bianca
@Robert Sneddon:
Where would these voters defect *to*? The Tories?
Corbyn just strikes me as someone not *desperately* dim, but in way over his head as a party leader.
Steeplejack
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Solid!
Ruckus
@Yutsano:
It happens everywhere. It’s just in some parts of the world there is a method of taking care of the situation, legal or not.
I was pointing out, not that people don’t know what causes pregnancy but at some juncture you either forget the possibilities or don’t care. Which of course is why bc needs to be absolutely available.
Cheryl Rofer
Somebody upthread said something about Brooklyn Barbecue? Fast becoming a meme on Twitter.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@germy: I did! I remembered you all said there would be one.
mozzerb
@Robert Sneddon: Corbyn was always one of the anti-EU people in the Labour Party, because he saw it as an enabler for capitalism — which wasn’t actually wrong, but (a) wasn’t the whole story and (b) was often the result of the UK pushing for things anyway. He considered that the EU would block left-wing policies and was fantastically lukewarm during the referendum campaign.
However, people in the party have been pointing out that he can achieve most of what he wants to do within EU rules, and he has come round to the view that there should at least be a customs union. So he’s being more pragmatic than seemed likely at first.
(As for UKIP, I’m not sure how well they will do without Farage — the rest of them have been pretty much a clown show and lacking in camera-ability. The main joker in the pack is the relative number of protest votes they might draw away from each party, which isn’t clear.)
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Robert Sneddon:
Remarkable how universal and depressingly timeless Barbara Tuchman’s “March of Folly” is. Pursuit of policy contrary to self-interest, indeed. What’samatter with Kansas? Hell, what’samatter with people? I ain’t never read a more succinct (tho far from satisfactory!) summation (pun intended) than that of Dostoyevski’s deranged reactionary underground man:
“Sometimes two plus two equals five is a pleasing notion.”
In the sardonic cheeky wordsa Chris Berman: “You can’t stop [the underground man], you can only hope to contain him!”
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Maybe?
OK I can see maybe. They were content/stupid enough to not do the work, to not even try, to just go along with the flow that they settled for easy. They resent someone who worked when they slacked off. They resent people that are better educated because they didn’t bother. They resent people who get ahead because they try and succeed, because they didn’t. They resent people who took opportunity that presented itself because they never saw it in front of them. They resent their life because they made a hash of it and everyone else isn’t suffering for them. They like drumpf because they recognize a fellow traveler who is successful even though he is a massive flaming asshole. He’s just like them only he has what they think they deserve. Just like drumpf thinks he got just what he deserves. What’s pissing off drumpf is that extremely deep down he knows he doesn’t deserve any of what he’s got. He’s like his supporters though in that he will never admit any of this. He isn’t any more capable than they are at that.
Steeplejack
@Cheryl Rofer:
Okay, that’s funny!
patrick II
If Maxine challenged Trump to take an IQ test at the same time, same place, would the Russians would help Trump cheat?
Gex
@Magda in Black: I’d have less of a problem with their lack of curiosity if they didn’t insist their judgments on complex issues were just as valid as those of people who make an attempt to understand an issue. If someone wants to throw up their hands and say they just don’t care, they should follow through all the way and just not care to the point of not offering an opinion.
Lalophobia
@Suzanne: I’ve been bothered by people talking about travel before, but that was usually when the person in question is talking about how everybody should go and you’ve got to stay here when you do, no where else is better. In cases like that it’s the oblivious privilege that’s irritating. Yeah, I’d love to travel, if I wasn’t just barely keeping my anxiety in check trying to pay for a shitty apartment in a shitty neighborhood with the just shy of minimum wage pay I get from a shitty job. But when somebody’s just sharing their experiences instead of sermonizing, all I feel is the dull blade of yearning in my heart for places I’d love to explore and the things I’d love to do but won’t be able to for a least a few years. If I don’t die before then.
poleaxedbyboatwork
Point’s same, memory (like a sieve!) fail. Not that it much matters but for form’s sake, actual Dostoyevski quote reads:
“I agree that two times two makes four is an excellent thing; but if we are dispensing praise, then two times two makes five is sometimes a most charming little thing as well.”
Consulting Lord Google, see that I tag-team forgot that Orwell (naturally) two-plus-twoed, also tooed, in 1984.
Robert Sneddon
@Miss Bianca:
UKIP mainly. They’ve won seats in the European Parliament, they’ve had a seat in Parliament, they outright controlled some local councils. In the 2015 election they got 12% of the vote, significantly more than the perennial loser Lib Dems did. This changed in 2017 as they had got what they wanted, Brexit in the 2016 Referendum and they only got 1.8% of the vote in the succeeding General Election.
It’s a game of chicken basically — whichever party leadership blinks first and says they will refuse Brexit will lose 20% and more of its vote and worse still it won’t stop Brexit happening. The solution is to hold on to the voters and hope to muddle through Brexit and maybe after a few years of bad times and logistical problems Britain will re-apply to join the EU again.
Ruckus
@? Martin:
It’s not hard to find drumpf supporters in CA. There aren’t as many of them as in other areas but they are here. I lived in Marin county for a while and it’s 80% democratic. And yet one of the morons who lived down the street would fly an 8ft stars and bars mounted in his jacked up 4×4. Wanna bet he voted for HRC? I work with a moron who voted for drumpf. Now he is an ex meth addict with 2 illegitimate kids… (I do give him credit, he’s paid all his child support and when the judge gave him the option to clean up, he took it and has stayed out of trouble.) I haven’t even looked and I know of at least 3 drumpf supporters. Assholes are everywhere, some are just more public about it. drumpf got 31.6% of the vote in CA, HRC got 61.7% Wanna bet you might actually know one drumpf supporter?
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Not only buying into it, but actively searching for and being willing to pay for it. Wasn’t this the basis of the Ugly American, that person who refuses to see that there might be another way besides their self limiting way? That living in a shit hole and thinking that it’s the best, that clean streets, rapid mass transit, speaking a different language are the lowest forms of life…..
Magda in Black
@Gex:
That tends to be when I have to walk away. They’re not as informed and know nothing about my background and knowledge >they question said knowledge, and then get offended when they’re corrected.
Classic teaching pigs to sing: wastes your time and annoys the pig. ?
Magda in Black
@Ruckus:
Good lord, you’re right!
Trump is the ultimate Ugly American.
Ruckus
@Magda in Black:
Trade schools are education. It’s not the same as a rounded college education but it is education. As someone above pointed out it’s really the uneducated behavior that is the issue, that anything above the minimum is worthless because they didn’t do it. As a blue collar worker I have run into this all my life, and I see this around me today. Not everyone, but even in a lot of blue collar work one has to get some college education because a lot of jobs involve computers and how to use them effectively. Mine does, without computers we couldn’t do about half the machine work we do. We use 3D solids modeling daily. The young guys with no college education had to go to learn it. My boss pays for that.
Magda in Black
@Ruckus:
Trade schools are education, no disagreement there. Education comes in many forms, and I find what Ive come to call “deliberate ignorance” at all levels.
My late husband “the trucker” spoke of people whose world ended at the mailbox. His father, with a Masters, in Education, was one of those. It’s a deliberate choice to remain uninformed.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
Ever open a 70 yr old bottle of it?
Try that and get back to me.
MattF
@Cheryl Rofer: All those carbs! I’m shocked!
Ruckus
@Magda in Black:
I’ve known people with intelligence with 4th grade educations, I’ve known stupid people with masters degrees. I tutored statistics in college and had people that couldn’t understand it at all that had gotten A’s in math their entire lives. They could do the rote work, they didn’t understand the underlying concepts. I work with people who use trig regularly and have asked me to explain it. I get about 10 words in before their eyes glaze over and I have pictures and charts (those come in the book they use to look up how to figure out the sides of a triangle) They have no basis for the concepts, only the rote work. That’s what most of our lower education system does, teach rote, not concepts. College mostly teaches concepts and how those get us to the rote work to be accomplished. If you have a decent memory you can learn most rote work. If you have a decent memory you can learn how to recite concepts. IOW you can get a degree if you work at it. It’s trying to work the concepts into something new, come at things with a new angle, actual learning that’s tough. Most people have a hard time with that, but it’s that working on it that is important. Look how much we know now that we didn’t know 60-70 yrs ago. Look how much we knew 60-70 yrs ago that we didn’t know 60-70 yrs before that. Knowledge feeds on itself, a lack of knowledge puts you in a box. How small a box mostly depends on you. On your skills and on how you work at improving them. Learn a few rote things and you can make a living out of that. At one time you could make a reasonable living out of that. In todays world it is far more difficult to make a decent living out of pure rote work. It’s the level of knowledge in the world that has changed that. Most jobs are still rote but they require conceptual knowledge to understand the rote. 50 yrs ago they required knowing how to move your hands and when. How to keep your head and hands out of the way doing it. Now your head has to be in the middle of it and a lot of people have never been trained on how to do that.
Ruckus
It’s always projection with him…………
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
IMHO, that is a terrific ad. I can’t imagine one word of it that Republicans would or could quibble with, but I’m sure they’ll find something. Haven’t been following this race at all closely. Does Conor Lamb have a decent chance?
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
According to some of the tons of emails that I get from all the dem fractions, he’s polling even right now. So in a district that’s as R+ as this one, he’s doing great. Have to see how it goes but it doesn’t sound bad currently.
People really are pissed off and fired up. Is it enough? Time will tell.
SiubhanDuinne
@Brachiator:
We’ll know if we start seeing surnames like FitzTrump or ben Donald.
SiubhanDuinne
@Brachiator:
It isn’t proof positive, but it very strongly suggests that the “4-minute” barrier was essentially psychological, not physical.
Steeplejack (phone)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Exactly. I saw that discussed at length in some long-ass essay 10 or 15 years ago. Too lazy to look it up, but take my word for it!
(Probably Sports Illustrated on one of the anniversaries.)
bluefish
Pride in ignorance is a scary thing. Also dispiriting. Trump feeds on ignorance — his own and that of others. It’s masturbatory and cannibalistic. It’s terrible to witness. If you’re not totally freaked out by this daily spectacle, you’re not paying attention. I see his blind followers as increasingly self-destructive. Too bad for the rest of us that we’re along for the ride and that those in a position to intervene refuse to do so. Americans have high tolerance for madness — that can be a positive. In this case, it’s simply not. One is left not only to resist the filth this man puts out into the airwaves, but also the massive anxiety that can overtake one’s frame. I’d like to see ALL who’ve been complicit in this outrage pay a heavy price.