KIM JONG-UN: We should talk.
TRUMP: Sure!~12 hours later~
MUELLER: We should talk.
TRUMP: (prints out 10-page single-spaced list of demands & conditions)— Zeddy (@Zeddary) March 9, 2018
Trump’s legal team may tell Mueller he can interview the president if, among other considerations, he agrees to be very, very nice.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) March 10, 2018
The mockery is universal! Jon Chait, in NYMag:
President Trump’s lawyers have long insisted that, despite his public promise to testify to Robert Mueller, their client should not do so because he is a compulsive liar (e.g., the New York Times one month ago: “His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators.”). His unstoppable lying is akin to a handicap.…
Perhaps reconsidering the merits of this defense, Trump’s legal brain trust is floating two new rationales for why he cannot submit to an open interview. “It would be a travesty to waste his (Mr. Trump’s) time and to set a precedent which would cripple a future president,” a Trump lawyer tells The Wall Street Journal.
Everybody surely appreciates Trump’s previously undetectable concern for the long-term well-being of the institution he has been trashing. But the second objection, the one about wasting time, seems fairly easy to respond to. While Trump may be terribly busy with his regimen of document study, he also spends four to eight hours per day watching television…
.
And yet…
Trump's lawyers may tell Mueller that Trump will agree to an interview if Mueller sets a date for wrapping up the investigation and limits the scope of his questioning, WSJ reports https://t.co/wpAJpr9FuR
— Mark Berman (@markberman) March 9, 2018
…The president’s legal team is considering telling Mr. Mueller that Mr. Trump would agree to a sit-down interview based on multiple considerations, including that the special counsel commit to a date for concluding at least the Trump-related portion of the investigation. One idea is to suggest a deadline of 60 days from the date of the interview, the person said.
Another consideration for the legal team is reaching an agreement with Mr. Mueller on the scope of his questioning of the president, which they expect to focus largely on his decision to fire former national security adviser Mike Flynn and former FBI director James Comey, according to people familiar with the matter…
The president’s legal team is under pressure from Mr. Trump to bring about an end to the probe. Mr. Trump has been eager to see the investigation wrap up as quickly as possible, describing it as a distraction that is hurting the country. His lawyers have repeatedly laid out public timelines by which they expected the investigation to end. Those deadlines have come and gone…
Lawyers for Mr. Trump hold different views on whether he should testify and under what conditions. One member of the Trump legal team said last month that Mr. Trump’s testimony could set a bad precedent for future presidents, eroding their powers.
If Mr. Trump were to face detailed questions involving dates and times, his legal team may be reluctant to have him participate. As an example, general questions about what the president was thinking when he ordered the firing of Mr. Comey might be acceptable, as opposed to what action he took on a specific date and time.
Lawyers for Mr. Trump have studied federal court rulings that could be the basis for delaying or limiting the scope of an interview, or perhaps avoiding one altogether.
Sounds to me like (yet more) kabuki to placate Trump and his more vocal idiot supporters. As the old parable ends, In a year’s time, who knows? I might die; the king might die — or the horse could talk!
mike in dc
I suppose the distinction between being deposed with one’s lawyers present, and testifying under a grand jury subpoena with zero lawyers present was lost on their client. The best they can do for him is what they’re doing now–delay, delay, delay. Ultimately, I expect Bobby Three Sticks to issue a subpoena, perhaps a protracted court battle over it, and ultimately an order compelling the President to comply and appear. He can take the fifth on any questions whose truthful answers might incriminate him, but he can’t cite it for every question.
Baud
They could try offering Mueller $130,000 in hush money.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Does Mueller at this point genuinely need Trump to talk in order to put forth charges of OoJ or collusion or financial fraud?
WaterGirl
@mike in dc: I thought it was all or nothing. That if you took the 5th you had to take the 5th about EVERYTHING, and that if you answered even one question, you could not invoke the 5th amendment after that.
Please don’t tell me that TV has been misleading me all these years.
WaterGirl
When I was younger and would see an actor in a terrible, terrible role or acting in an awful production and I would wonder how they weren’t embarrassed to do so.
Now I find myself looking at Trump’s attorneys and wonder how it can be that they aren’t humiliated to be saying stuff that is beyond stupid. I’m not even an attorney and I would find it humiliating to even utter some of the laughable things they say out loud. I truly don’t get it.
joel hanes
I don’t think that the Donald understands that he’s not really in a position to dictate conditions to Mueller; I doubt Mueller actually needs his testimony.
Villago Delenda Est
I imagine that what Mueller and his team want to do is put Donald in the perjury trap to end all perjury traps. Donald is incapable of a lawyerly dodge, he’s just too stupid and too oblivious to the very concept of “the truth.”
mike in dc
@WaterGirl: Trump’s best attorney is B-list. The others are C-list. Michael Cohen is D-list. Most A-list attorneys and firms refused to touch Trump with a 10 foot pole. Two reasons: he doesn’t always pay, and he’s a “difficult” client(doesn’t listen to advice, lies to his own attorneys, etc.)
mike in dc
@Villago Delenda Est: He’d lie dozens of times. His attorneys know that to a highly scientific degree of certainty, and are doing everything they can to limit his exposure. A combo of Trump lying under oath, plus a bulletproof indictment/bill of impeachment means he’s either a goner in 2019, or in November 2020(along with his party).
Librarian
I just love how Trump wants the investigation to simply “wrap up”- presumably after completely exonerating him.
Adam L Silverman
@mike in dc: The concession will be the same one the Federal courts gave President Clinton – testify from the White House via secure video-teleconference (SVTC – pronounces sivits). So the Federal grand jury will be in the Federal court house in DC while the President and Mueller’s people doing the questioning will be set up in one of the rooms in the West Wing. Though not the Oval Office.
Humdog
If a president takes an oath to not only uphold the constitution but to take care that the constitution is followed, I don’t see how he can fall back on the fifth amendment. If he does not answer, he is hindering a finding of whether the constitution was followed. I am obviously not a lawyer.
Jay
@Villago Delenda Est:
“Perjury Trap” is Faux News/Pravada framing.
JPL
Trump is thinking of adding Emmet Flood to his team according to the NYTimes. This is a CNN link.. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/politics/donald-trump-emmet-flood-robert-mueller/index.html
Flood was on Clinton’s impeachment team. hmmm
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl:
It says something about a client when even Wolfram & Hart declined to join his defense team.
Corner Stone
@Jay: Yeah, it’s easy shorthand for catching Trump in a lie but I agree it’s not accurate. There is no trap here if one tells the truth.
Corner Stone
@Humdog: He’s still afforded that right. That’s how the constitution rolls.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: It isn’t really a perjury trap. A perjury trap means the prosectors are looking to manipulate the person they’re putting under oath. Which, if I understand correctly, is, at best, a grey area in regard to being something okay to do. What the problem with the President is, as explained in multiple articles, including Chait’s cited up top, he is incapable of telling the truth. Or of sticking to one answer and not repeatedly answering a question over and over. Or just making things up. Additionally, he is impossible to prep. For testimony, for a key leader engagement, etc. So his attorneys do need to do everything they can from keeping him from either being deposed under oath or going before the Federal grand jury.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
As other’s have pointed out, Trump’s legal team isn’t very good,
And Trump is an angry, easily triggered moron,
So Trump’s legal team keeps floating stupid ideas to:
A) keep running up the billable hours,
B) keep their Client and his deplorables quiet,
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: that’s my understanding as well, but not my area of expertise as my clients are all upstanding corporate citizens rather than scumbag criminals.
Barbara
Jared, by contrast, has some decent lawyers representing him, e.g, Abbe Lowell, who also represented Clinton. He questioned Starr during Senate hearings, I believe. I watched because a friend used to work for Lowell.
JMG
Trump has added a lawyer, guy named Emmet Flood Washington veteran, was Cheney’s lawyer and also on Bill Clinton’s impeachment defense team. So he’s no clown.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
He has that right, but do you take it as anything other than an acknowledgement of guilt?
WaterGirl
I’m guessing that Mueller started the conversation about interviewing Trump months and months before he actually figures he will either interview or subpoena Trump. I just cannot fathom that he would not have built in months of delays into the timing of his request.
Feebog
It’s going to come down to Grand Jury testimony. He will twist and wriggle and delay. Mueller will eventually say fuck it and issue the subpoena. It may take a long legal battle, but if Mueller wants Trumpov to testify, he is going to testify.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: He used to be able to testify effectively. Over the course of his real estate career, he’s sued or been sued many times and has given many depositions, and it didn’t end catastrophically for him. But that was then and this is now.
WaterGirl
@Feebog: That’s what aI think, too. The only question is how long it can be delayed.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone: He is utterly incapable of telling the truth. “Perjury trap” does indeed imply that you’re trying to trick the subject into committing perjury (as the scum that is Ken Starr did to Bill Clinton) but Donald will perjure himself almost instantly, as in Fox Mulder telling Homer that lying to the FBI is a felony (while Homer is hooked up to a polygraph) and asks Homer if he understands, and Homer says “Yes.”
Then the polygraph explodes.
Manyakitty
@Corner Stone: Lolz! I still like Spike better than Angel.
Villago Delenda Est
@Steve in the ATL: ISWYDT
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: You only hire Lowell if you’re guilty. He’s that good.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: Tracking. I was using “perjury trap” in the sense that, as you note, Donald is incapable of telling the truth, so ANY testimony, just straight up yes or now questions, amounts to a trap that Donald can’t escape because he doesn’t even know he’s walking into it.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Feebog:
Again though, does Mueller truly require Trump’s testimony to successfully complete the case?
I’d have assumed he had ample and compelling evidence of 58 kinds of corruption.
mike in dc
Yeah, it’s not a “trap” if the deponent is the one creating their own jeopardy.
Anonymous At Work
@dmsilev: They weren’t trying or interested in the perjury aspect. It was for breaches of contract where “DId you ever document your dissatisfaction with my client’s work?” was the focus. Mueller is focused on obstruction of justice, where it’s ALL about the lies and coverups and motivations that are different in public and private. All the stuff that Trump is worst at.
Adam L Silverman
@JMG: According to the reporting he has not hired Flood, only that Flood is in discussions about coming aboard.
mike in dc
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Think of it as the cherry atop the sundae. Trump lying under oath puts a bow on the whole damn thing.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: The transcripts and videos I’ve seen of him being deposed are full of contradictions, lacuna, fabrications (I set my net worth by how I feel at any given time, so if I feel good that day, then my net worth is hired), word salad, and outright lies. The outside counsel that represented him in these suits have claimed to the court that they had to send two attorneys every time they needed to meet with him because if they only sent one, he would lie about what he said. He’s pathological. He always has been. Perhaps, when he was younger he was able to keep the lies and fabrications straight. He can’t do that anymore.
Suffragette City
Are they trying to hold off until after the mid-terms?
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: I reckoned. But it seems to have become the default, so I figured I’d belabor the obvious.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@mike in dc:
Yes, I suppose so, but I’ve been imagining Mueller by now had witness testimony, paper and electronic documents galore, audio and video proof, maybe even damn DNA evidence to prosecute Lump through the year 2525.
Jay
@Anonymous At Work:
And the Trump Org, didn’t win many of those either.
jl
@Baud:
” They could try offering Mueller $130,000 in hush money. ”
Mueller team needs some nukes, is what.
Anonymous At Work
@Adam L Silverman: In those cases, the opposing counsel wasn’t interested in perjury, just breach of contract/restitution. Makes it easy for Trump to dodge the issue. Filibuster with your counsel until the other guy settles for nickels on the dollar. I don’t think Trump knows that Mueller will be different.
Amir Khalid
How close are we to seeing Trump do the big Cagney-style movie gangster meltdown? It will be a moment both of great Schadenfreude and great national tragedy.
Corner Stone
@Manyakitty: Spike is a wanker.
Suzanne
I can’t imagine that Bob Mueller would ever consent to ending the investigation before he’s really and truly done.
I’m kinda worried for Mueller’s safety. If something comes out of this investigation, I fully expect a Trump goon to fly off the handle, and we know they are all armed. I’m sure they’ll say it’s about ethics in gaming journalism or some shit.
Corner Stone
@debbie: In my personal opinion Trump is guilty AF. But I believe anyone can still exert their rights for whatever reason, or no reason, they choose.
Anonymous At Work
@Jay: Yup, and paid quarters on the dollar. Or they’d settle before trial for nickels on the dollar. Trump got more out of the contractor than the settlement and legal fees cost him.
patrick II
@mike in dc:
If Trump’s mouth moves he’s lying.
If Trumps mouth moves while under oath he’s committing perjury.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: If the Stormy Daniels legal work is any indication, I wonder whether Trumps and his legal thugs have been able to get away with a lot of slop in the past that was never examined closely. The other side of lawsuits maybe been been satisfied to drop legal action as soon as they recovered a dime or a quarter on a dollar of debts owed to them, or just relieved that the financial jeopardy was gone and let things drop.
The Pale Scot
Always loved Johnny Dangerous. Dom Deluise as the Pope, the parrot in the grapevine…
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est: Trump doesn’t know any truth. He probably thinks he really did not tell McGahn to fire Mueller. For example.
WaterGirl
@The Pale Scot: I am trying to figure out what that means in the context of this thread, but I am coming up short!
Amir Khalid
@Suzanne:
I can’t imagine that Mueller can stop the investigation short of a proper end without obstructing justice himself. His brief includes looking at matters uncovered in the course of the primary investigation. Having already found some wrongdoing, he’s obliged, I think, to keep going until he finds it all.
jl
” general questions about what the president was thinking ”
I see problems with that approach, since it requires something within shouting distance of ‘thinking’ on Trump’s end.
A novel tactic might be for the Mueller legal team be to agree to a softball interview, and then keep Trump in a waiting from for an hour before the meeting. Mueller’s team fakes up a Fox and Friends broadcast full of provocative comments, and listen to what Trump yells back at the TV. Does Mueller’s team have a suggestion box? I’ll submit that idea.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: This is why, other than doing these NDAs for women the President has had affairs with (when Kasowitz wasn’t available to do them), is not a practicing attorney. He went to what is considered to be the worst law school in the US and he is clearly not a very good attorney. And that latter may also be because he doesn’t really practice law. His personal fortune comes from his business. He has a NY real estate empire in his own right. Is still receiving payments from when he was partners with a notorious Eastern European mob guy in the NY taxi business, has done casino boat gambling, and tried to get into the energy sector in Ukraine with his and his brother’s Ukrainian in laws. The closest thing he gets to being an attorney is calling himself the President’s special counsel in his role as a senior associate at the Trump Organization (ie Trump’s fixer).
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: Even Napolitano on Fox and Friends explained this earlier this week. That Mueller is empowered and required, by the DOJ order that established him as the Special Counsel, to look into every rabbit hole that he and his team comes across and then to follow those rabbit holes to their ends. Tweedle Dum, Tweedle Dummer, and Tweedle Dumbette did not look amused.
jl
@Amir Khalid: ” I can’t imagine that Mueller can stop the investigation short of a proper end without obstructing justice himself. ”
Hey, don’t go giving the Trumpsters more ideas for why they should fire Mueller. I can see the Trump tweet now “I’m not Obstructing Justice! Mueller is Obstructing Justice! Deep State Dilemma. Lock Him Up, if does or if he doesn’t. MAGA!”
Amir Khalid
@Suzanne:
“Who will rid me of this meddlesome Special Counsel?” I think that that old Marine Bobby Three Sticks will be aware of the possibility, and will have taken precautions.
Jay
@Anonymous At Work:
A lot of the Trump “settlements” came to pennies on the dollar because he was already bankrupt, in bankruptcy proceedings, or had lost controlling interest.
p.a.
Trump’s lawyers really are hacks: they didn’t include a provision for Dick Cheney’s presence.
Matt
Is it just me, or should “we believe the POTUS is literally incapable of answering questions truthfully” be damn near a 25th Amendment disqualification right there?
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
I disagree.
He is incapable of intentionally telling the truth.
And his projection — if you take into account that it is projection — is sort of telling the truth. But again, it’s not intentional, and ….
yeah, OK, this last part is a stretch. Or mumbo-jumbo. Or both.
SFAW
@Matt:
Not even close. ZEGS will say “He’s still learning” or “It’s not the way I would have put it” or some other mealy-mouthed quasi-traitorous comment. And that will be that.
The Midnight Lurker
Would someone please tell me when we can start calling these people traitors?
Suzanne
@Amir Khalid: I have faith in Mueller, but that is some morbid shit. If Mueller was assassinated, who would ever willingly take the role?
Last Thanksgiving, my entire family sat around the table and gave thanks for Bob Mueller.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Clinton was questioned in the Residence(Map Room IIRC).
jl
@The Midnight Lurker: IMHO, we already can and should call Trump a traitor And for an aspect of the Russia/Trumpster scam that I think is least discussed, but most important: lack of any action at all on potential for Russia, and for that matter other foreign actors, to damage the integrity of future elections. Even our miserably corrupt GOP Congress has appropriated over a hundred million dollars to counter efforts for 2018 and 2020, and Trump and his gang are doing nothing.
We don’t need no stinking investigations into that, it is right out in front of us. Trump should already have been impeached, tried, convicted and removed from office for that alone.
Maybe it’s not discussed that much because, at this point, not much can be done about it, so it is too depressing. I have to hope that 2018 is such a wave that it will swamp any efforts to mess with voter registration rolls or voting records.
Shana
@Suffragette City: I think holding off until the midterms only makes it worse for the GOP. Of course
Trump doesn’t give a shit about that.
chris
Daniel Dale is live tweeting the shitgibbon’s rally in PA. The shitgibbon is lying as usual. Also:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Suzanne: someone posted a picture of Meuller waiting for a light to change the other day. There was much speculation that the two other guys in the picture are his security detail
Shana
@Suzanne: I’m now thinking of how to incorporate Mueller et.al. into our Passover seder this year. Any suggestions Jackels?
jl
@Shana: I think holding off until the GOP primaries are over is better bet. The proportion of voting adults who ID with the GOP has shrunk down to hard core Trumpsters, so the smarter GOPers have to pretend to be all down with Donnie until they get their ticket punched for the general election. Once that is done, they have to swerve sharply and quickly to save their asses in the general election.
So, I am very interested to see how the GOPers change their tunes as the country works its way through the primaries, between now and mid-summer. I think primaries started last week in some states.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
He wouldn’t be much more subtle if he had Jethrene standing behind him holding up a sign that said “The president will now speak from one of his deepest insecurities!”
He’s also saying the Democrats are against DACA
John Revolta
@Suzanne: Don’t underestimate these hardcore enforcement guys. If anything should happen to Mueller, you’d have people lining up to take his place.
jl
@Shana:
Here’s link with state primary schedules. Looks like TX and IL have early primaries now, then nothing until May. The dust settles between mid and end of August. I’ll be interested in what the GOPer Congress is saying around that time.
2018 STATE PRIMARY ELECTION DATES
National Conference of State Legislatures
1/10/2018
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/2018-state-primary-election-dates.aspx
SiubhanDuinne
@Shana:
Three roasted lamb shank bones side by side to represent Bobby “Three-Sticks.”
Shana
@jl: I think there’s less ability to shift from Primary Mode to General Election Mode nowadays. In VA last year it didn’t work very well for candidates who tried that tack. Dem candidates hammered their opponents who ran right during primaries and tried to shift back to the middle afterwards. We’re all hoping Barbara Comstock isn’t able to thread that needle since she’s the only Northern Virginia GOP Congressperson left. She’s got a lot of federal employees in her district, and it went pretty heavily for Hillary in 2016.
BTW, the local Dems here have groups going up today and tomorrow to PA to work on GOTV for Conner Lamb.
Corner Stone
@John Revolta: I agree. It wouldn’t frighten people off. They’d be holding a lottery to see who gets their chance to do this next.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, I think he knows exactly what he’s talking about in that second one. “us”
Jay C
IIRC, when a previous Special Counsel tried to get Bill Clinton to testify on the record, the WH then also put off the request with the standard “he’s too busy Presidenting” dodge – which, in the end, didn’t work. And Bill was a far better hand at keeping his trap shut and avoiding self-incrimination than Donald Trump could ever be. Even though, “lying under oath” did become the
groundsexcuse for the 1998 impeachment resolution.jl
@Shana: That is good. Except things have changed since last time I looked at it closely. Voters who ID with independents stopped rising in August, and is now dropping, and GOP ID rising. Though Democratic ID is rising faster. Not sure whether link will work, but here is an attempt…
Ahh, rats, I removed the link, polls haven’t been updated since May 2017. I’ll have to look around for recent polls. Maybe real clear politics?
mai naem mobile
I would write an agreement up if I was Mueller because you know Unstable Mental Genus Orange Fartus will forget to sign the agreement.
Gin & Tonic
I am spending the evening experiencing the weirdness of America at the Monster (truck) Jam.
debbie
@Shana:
Invite him in along with Elijah.
Ohio Mom
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t think so. The shank bone represents the sacrifices made in the Temple, and we don’t want Mueller sacrificed!
@Shana: I think there is a parallel somewhere, in the idea of being freed and starting anew. That is what we want for our country now, to be freed of everything about this administration, and to start anew. Hopefully without forty years in the desert.
Maybe there is something to be worked into the four questions? Mueller is certainly asking a lot of them.
GxB
That ship sailed with the Bill/Monica fiasco. I sincerely hope Mr Trump has already set enough bad precedents himself to assure his idiocy never happens again. If that erodes the power of the president to be a fucking mentally unstable amoral imbecile, well that is some change for the good IMO.
El Caganer
Probably just a sign of what an old fart I am, but I get itchy when I hear that the Special Prosecutor is referred to as “Bobby Three Sticks.” Frankly, that sounds entirely and uncomfortably too much like the sort of names they gave to those fake Indians on old Saturday morning kiddie shows.
chris
LOL can’t stop watching
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/83hsdt/cats_ring_bell_to_get_treats/
JPL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: From reading the tweets that Haberman and Dale wrote, racists rants might get the vote out. Right now, I’m just feeling sad for the future of our country.
Baud
@JPL: How is that different from 2016?
Tenar Arha
@Adam L Silverman: If I were a top of the line defense attorney with previous impeachment experience I guess I would probably be willing to meet with 45, for S&G if nothing else. I mean you could set your terms, payment up front, a full interview with a colleague to witness….
But it would be a huge reputation hit, even if one did eventually win, who would work with you or your firm in the meantime w/ 45 the chronic liar as your client?
ETA What reputable firm would take on the task of defending a client who is this bad?
The Pale Scot
@WaterGirl:
Handicap links to a JD scene
Another Scott
@dmsilev: June 2016 Trump video deposition (100 minutes) about the restaurant suit.
He can do things like that on autopilot even though (I’m convinced) he’s brain damaged – as you say, he’s done it so many times before.
I’m sure Mueller’s team has studied how he testifies and will be ready…
Cheers,
Scott.
Ohio Mom
@debbie: Oh, I like this! Pray for god to pour out his wrath on Trump, pursue him in anger, etc.
Or one drop taken out of the wine glass for every rotten thing Trump has done: encouraged white nationalists, set ICE on innocent people, blow up the debt to give tax cuts to the one-percent…I wonder, would ten drops be enough?
FlyingToaster
@Tenar Arha: You’d become the go-to firm for rich guilty people. Like Shkreli. Being a bad guy lawyer can be lucrative, and you still get paid if you lose.
Doug R
@Baud:
And Mueller wouldn’t have to buy an abortion with the money!
Still I don’t think he’ll go for it.
JPL
@Baud: For me it’s the realization that this is the new normal. How depressing is that.
Baud
@JPL: Well, if Lamb wins, that would be cool and not depressing.
And this is actually the Old Normal. It’s just making one last futile stand.
Doug R
@Adam L Silverman:
HUGE, VERY HUGE, you wouldn’t believe me how huge retainer in advance.
Tazj
I just love the political commentary after a Trump rally, it’s so serious. “He’s back in campaign mode and you know that Pennsylvania was a cornerstone of his 2016 campaign, the rust belt blah, blah blah. He didn’t mention Conor Lamb much.”
They just gloss over the explicit racism, sexism, lies and plain insanity of his speech.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic:
You’re…ummm…what?
The Pale Scot
@dmsilev:
That was in NY Civil Court, with a whole lot he said/she said over shady contracts. Through the IC Mueller already knows what happened, he just putting together the evidence without burning IC sources and tech.
Ohio Mom
@Shana: Hopefully, in following years, we will be able to add something along the lines of the Dayanu song: If Flynn had been forced out but not Ivanka and Jared, that would have been enough. If Ivanka and Jared had been forced out but (fill in the blank, you get the idea).
Amir Khalid
@El Caganer:
Mueller got the nickname as a young prosecutor, from people impressed by (and sometimes fearful of) his thoroughness and tenacity.
Steeplejack
@El Caganer:
Think of it more as what it actually is: an old-school Mafia-style nickname. Injuns don’t come into it.
ETA: In case you didn’t know (but I assumed you did) “Three Sticks” comes from his name—Robert S. Mueller III.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Corner Stone: Culture, Corner Stone.
Tenar Arha
@FlyingToaster: I suppose my question then is what kind of reputation does the firm Flood works for have? Good tough lawyers who protect the guilty or the innocent? Or only real scumbags? Whether they win or lose they may get paid, but a reputation is forever, and Trump taints everything & everyone he works with. I’d guess that makes a difference to ones’ partners. Anyone know?
SiubhanDuinne
@Ohio Mom:
Indeed we don’t! I was thinking entirely of the visual, not of the underlying symbolism.
Okay, back to scratch.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
“Next year in Supermax”?
Tenar Arha
@SiubhanDuinne: There’s not just prayers for Israel, there’s one for our country in the Haggadot my family uses. ? I think I’ll make sure to suggest we not leave that one out for a speedier Seder this year.
NotMax
@Shana
Parsley dipped in Dolt 45’s tears?
divF
@Baud:
More likely Lompoc.
Shana
@Ohio Mom: Good ideas, thanks.
Amir Khalid
@Tenar Arha:
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, everyone has a right to a lawyer, and even upon conviction the crimes of the client don’t become the crimes of the lawyer.
Corner Stone
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You mean like penicillin?
germy
I’m looking at photos from the drumpf rally, and some of the faces in the audience are so young.
Also, there’s always a few men whose faces are wider on the bottom than on the top. Every rally.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Corner Stone: No, more like Opera.
Mike J
@Tenar Arha:
If I were his lawyer I’d be more concerned about not getting paid. I’d tell him up front I wanted a multiple of the expected fee held in escrow.
Other than that, you seem to think getting guilty people off is something that would hurt a defense atty’s rep. I don’t understand. It’s what they get paid to do.
Baud
Sigh
WaPo
Baud
@germy: He won white millennials.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: A defense lawyer’s duty is to provide the best defense possible while staying within the Canon of Ethics. Do that and you’ve done your job whether you win or lose.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, that too.
Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California)
All health and success to Mueller and his team, and I hope we get rid of this whole band of thieves sooner rather than later. I’m so sick and tired of being sick and tired (and angry).
J R in WV
Hi ! Open thread? Right, they’re nearly all open.
We’re back in the US after our “adventure trip” whale watching in the Sea of Cortez and on the coast of Baja California. I shot about a million photos, even some underwater. Sea lions too.
Will submit some photos to Alain. Probably like the Southwest photo sets I submitted back a few months ago.
A week without The Internets, no TV, No network news… no blogs. It was HARD! I missed you guys!! My Fellow Jackals!
But now we’re back, and I’m ready to take names and make a list!
What all happened while we were gone? Trump still President? Yeah, we would have heard about that…
Baud
@J R in WV: Welcome back. I’d fill you in on what’s new, but the last few months a bit of a blur.
NotMax
@J R in WV
How did you cook the sea lions after you shot them?
(I kid, I kid.)
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV:
Jeez, there are some trolls that go everywhere. Welcome back.
raven
@J R in WV: Get to Gyuamas? Ever read Log of the Sea of Cortez by Steinbeck?
Fishing with Ralph, Sea of Cortez 1972
https://tinyurl.com/y865kjch
frosty
@Felony Govt (formerly Old Broad in California):
Or, as one of my favorite Waylon Jennings lyrics goes “I’m sick and tired of wakin’ up sick and tired.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: I think “a million photos” might break the blog.
NotMax
@frosty
Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In).
raven
@J R in WV: My colleague’s dissertation was on Whale Watching!
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
To repurpose Tevye, “Would it be so much to ask…?”
NotMax
@raven
Whale watching season here just about over. November – March.
Like John Wayne, Ernie Kovacs and Fabian, north to Alaska!
raven
@NotMax: We hung with the whale watchers up on Play Verdes the day after the Rose Bowl. We didn’t see any but the dude said they recently saw a killer whale eat a baby whale right there?
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Your colleague ever spend time on the Saguenay?
Ken
See, that tells you how bad they are, though in fairness that may be what they have to tell Trump to keep him from throwing a tantrum. Anyone who’s been paying attention knows that Mueller has a lot more to ask about – and that’s just what’s become public because of the already-unsealed indictments, and/or one or more of these idiots going on national TV to brag about their crimes.
NotMax
@debbie
Can change the wording of “Chad Gadya” to “Glad Got Ya.” Starting with Flynn and working up the list of both present and hoped for indictments.
Gonna be a task to find a suitable rhyme for Papadopoulos, though.
:)
Van Buren
If the NYPD picks up some rando for questioning, can the guy tell the cops he’ll only talk if they agree to wrap up the investigation quickly?
Another Scott
@J R in WV: Welcome back! Looking forward to the pictures.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sab
@J R in WV: I love your photos, especially with commentary. Aren’t sea lions those seals with ears? Can’t wait.
Gvg
Ya’h know, the power of the President has been growing for decades because Congress has been timid and then deadlocked and now timid plus divided. in an ideal world we would react to this by cutting back on the Presidents power. So far I don’t see that happening. It is likely IMO that whoever follows dolt will have less perceived authority but so far we haven’t reached that point.
Frankly Congress should be passing legislation to nullify Trumps tariffs. It’s more within their area than the executives IMO. Also Ryan and most of th GOP are still pro business. Surprised it isn’t happening. Maybe they are just caught off guard. It’s totally stupid so they probably thought it wouldn’t happen.
Trump could take the fifth but I think the media and social media would perceive that badly. He isn’t good about shutting up. Imagine if he did though, then people made fun of him? He might say a lot after in fact he is lost certain to contradict himself an hour after it’s done. Looking forward to it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Why is this prison different from all other prisons?
poleaxedbyboatwork
@joel hanes:
Expect that’s true. But then, not the first time our Siberian-Manchurian man-child has stupidly mistaken a crippling perverted self-regard for the haughty noblesse oblige of the criminally deranged.
The Mueller interview with Trump: (I’ma hopin’) will be the last opportunity afforded to a transparently guilty oaf to make his appeal for absolution. Not that he will recognize it (or deserve the consideration).
When you already know alla answers, asking questions is a means to an end.
Me, just hopeful Mueller don’t go wobbly. We need not just answers, but an honest fucking look in the mirror. Am hoping Mueller ain’t one a them “noble lie” kinda Plato’s Republic sorta folk who think you can’t possibly let the hoi polloi populace know what actually happent lest you frighten the horses.
Doug R
@Gvg: Yeah, the president is supposed to be a check and balance on congress, not a king.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It’s a tradition I hate. And I guess I can give up wondering if his supporters will ever notice he despises them
Omnes Omnibus
@Sab:
No.
Amir Khalid
@Ken:
I expect Trump to come out of the questioning furious that Mueller delegated the questioning to his staff, which Trump will take as an insult. He will also be furious that Mueller’s people asked him about things his lawyers had promised would not be brought up. And he will be frantic with worry that he inadvertently gave self-incriminating answers. He’s going to be lashing out at just about everyone in sight.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Please, for the love of Christ, drop your dialect schtick.
Ian R
@mike in dc: Trump believes he can pardon himself, which means he has no basis for taking the fifth.
Sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Please explain.
Nevermind. I eventually clicked your link.
Tenar Arha
@Mike J: @Amir Khalid: Strongly agree with this. IMHO everyone deserves the best defense, I’m just wondering how Trump will get his, especially, as he looks to be one of the worst clients ever.
So I guess I’m also imagining the practical consequences of having someone who would probably be the worst ever client. Possibly worse than Shkreli or Manafort, who, as we’ve seen, were bad enough at taking the advice of their counsel that they lost privileges while out on bail after they were charged.
I’m fully aware that you’re not supposed to hold a lawyer’s clients against them, but I also know it happens all the time. Firms lose business and clients by defending certain people or organizations. It’s why Public Defenders get called noble, but make no money. It’s probably why we have an organization like the ACLU. It’s also probably why “recently” so many Prosecutors & corporate lawyers in this country get appointed to the federal bench as judges.
But I guess what you’re both obliquely pointing out, is at this level of jurisprudence, with the likelihood of big fat fees, there’s no reason not to go for it. Even for a client who has demonstrated repeatedly that they will not follow anyone’s advice. Someone really good might well do it for the challenge & the money. That’s worthwhile information.
Amir Khalid
@poleaxedbyboatwork:
Do you really talk the way you write here, or are you just affecting rusticity? Your style feels inauthentic and grating.
glory b
Watching the Pittsburgh 10:00 news. Trump filled the hangar (5,000 cacpcity), they gave more tickets than that so some people didn’t get in.
Local news also noted that lots of the people they spoke to were’t from the district, they came from WV and OH to see him.
.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Even the nym is gibberish. Do we have a new troll?
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: I think it’s schtick. S/he tried something like this last week or the week before, IIRC, then got all huffy when called out on it.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@dmsilev:
Civil vs. criminal.
The bar, so to speak, she be raised.
Amir Khalid
@Tenar Arha:
A conscientious lawyer would defend to the best of their ability even the most difficult client.
Gin & Tonic
Anyway, back from the big city. I suppose tractor-pulling contests are next for me.
Aleta
Trump seems nervous about the coming week. Like the criminal sociopath he is, instead of abort abort abort the mission, it’s divert divert divert the audience.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: A few nights ago, this one was here and the dialect was more emphatic. It annoyed the fuck out of me, but i thought that I might be just tired and cranky so i walked away and went to bed. When i got up in the morning, I found that two eminently reasonable commenters had jump on this one with both feet. By this, I mean I have no clue.
Sab
@Omnes Omnibus: So are seals not dog mermaids?
poleaxedbyboatwork
_______________________
Is there a reason you boys feel obliged to slag on me for the way I write?
Seriously. Genuinely innerested. I’m quite aware that you both congratulate yourselves on your openness to life’s rich pageant, and yet you feel obliged to bullyrag me about how I write.
I confess, it seems weird.
(As one commenter, beloved no doubt, once observed after belatedly having made the same rude plea for me to accommodate myself to his aesthetics: that’s what the pie filter is for.)
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Gin & Tonic:
This I would like you to substantiate.
(Since you went to the trouble of saying it.)
Tenar Arha
@Amir Khalid: I absolutely agree. Any lawyer who accepts 45 as a client will do their best. But talking to you guys is making me realize, lawyers are also human & that’s probably the underlying reason why 45 currently has no current experienced, expert counsel at all, after it’s been clear for almost a year that he’s going to need more than one.
No one likes it when their advice is ignored, but a professional at the top of their game really hates to be actively flouted. Until now the lawyers with the most experience probably just don’t really want the agita, even though at this point it’s clear they could get a big fee held in escrow.
Corner Stone
@Aleta:
I think you’re probably about 25 +/- too low for the number Trump has paid for.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@schrodingers_cat:
It’s funny.Make one comment and get all sortsa clannish suspicion and reactionary defensiveness.
Ya, it’s your place to float who’sa troll.
This community is really a welcoming group. Thanks for that. Truly.
Corner Stone
@poleaxedbyboatwork: This is odd.
Gin & Tonic
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Which part would you like me to substantiate? That I think it’s schtick? Well, like, that’s just my opinion, man. Or the part where two commenters called you out on the schtick and you figuratively jumped down their throats? That’s in the archives for all to see. I won’t be searching for it; those who are interested can.
Have a nice evening.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Gin & Tonic:
Yes, you are correct, just not in the manner you posit.
What do ye olde archives show?
That a beloved commenter, in the first instance he addressed me, was really fucking rude to me (in a way that, if the roles were reversed, I am quite sure he would find unforgiveably rude), in asking me to conform to his rather dickish expectations of expression. That would be point number one.
Second, I observed, quite forthrightly, in much the same manner I did ye olde beloved commenter, that Amir Khalid and Omnes Omnibus held a remarkably similar dickish expectation the ye olde beloved commenter did.
And I remarked that I found that weird. Which I do. And … kinda dickish and dumb, but your mileage might vary.
Know what? I don’t give a fuck if I fit into your little club. Got limiited time, so you can thank your lucky stars that I prolly won’t post much.
But, ffs, you people who have whinged about the way I write are, to put it bluntly, judgmental chickenshits.
Your welcome.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sab: I have no way of responding to that.
Amir Khalid
@poleaxedbyboatwork:
It’s not just the boys here.
Yes, there is: an affected style like yours is bad writing. It calls attention to itself and distracts the reader from what you have to say. It gives the impression that you are here to seek attention rather than to join a discussion. It makes people less willing to take you seriously, and more inclined to treat you as an annoyance.
ETA: You are also gratuitously rude. For some reason, people tend not to like that.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Fuck you.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Boys?
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Omnes Omnibus:
Careful, now. Folks might get the impression you care.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Got it, darling. You are a troll. Fuck off.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Golly. Tell me.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Omnes Omnibus:
Your affronted dignity is hilarious. Yes, boys. Deliberate.
If you are intent on acting like a dick, reckoned it was accurate tho’ charitably better’n “children”, tho’ that might answer more ably n have the saving grace of being honest.
(Tho’ admittedly rude. But that appears to be the way shit goes down round here, so I shall join the donnybrook as I find it.).
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Huh?
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Not just useful advice, but free.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Omnes Omnibus:
You are an accepted and respected member of this community. I get that. But know what? The price a membership at this here club ain’t worth the dues.
So just cuz you say I’ma troll don’t make it so. Know yer Gerschwin? It Ain’t Necessarily So? You are acting, I think objectvely, like a dick. An asshole. That’s yer prerogative, but it’s kinda embarrassing. For you.
You object to the way I write. Alll right, fine. Go and God be with you or not, just as you please.
But guess what? It ain’t within your purview to decide that just cuz you don’ like how I write, that you can put your oar in the water n tell me to shut the fuck up. Or change how I write. For you. Or anyone else. That would be point the first.
And point the second is: It is the height — the apex — of intellectual cowardice to declare someone a troll just cuz you disagree with them.
You are not covering yourself in glory here, Omnes. Would like to think, if nothing else, that your training would’ve been worth more’n what it apparently is.
Aleta
@Corner Stone: Trump is a hypocrite working out of his brain stem with no moral conduction.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: I will leave this here.
Gin & Tonic
@poleaxedbyboatwork: It’s “Gershwin.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Oops.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Gin & Tonic:
Takes a purty small n petty mind that can thinka only one way to spell a word.
Atho’ I’m sure you’ve never misspelled a word, I’d like to think you’re not always this big (small) of a pedant.
Jesus, grow the fuck up.
Omnes Omnibus
@poleaxedbyboatwork: I tried to be nice…..
Gin & Tonic
@poleaxedbyboatwork: There are many ways to spell Gershwin, probably. George and Ira spelled it “Gershwin.” That’s on the copyright for the song you mention.
You are tiresome.
Omnes Omnibus
Troll.
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic:
Corner Stone
This went from odd to bugfuck nuts.
poleaxedbyboatwork
Well, now. We can agree on something. Correct, people do not enjoy being treated with gratuitous rudeness.
This, however coming from a person whose first interaction with me was to call me a poltroon. Remember that? Remember how you were dogpiling like a coward then just as you are now?
Look, the long and short of this is efgoldman’s first words to me were::
Objectively, that’s a dicksh thing to say, even if you agree with it. Had I said it to him, am quite sure he would crotchetilly taken offense. And he’da been right to.
So why not shut your gob and use the pie filter? Oh, that’s right, b/c you’re a self-congratulatory hypocritical dick. I forgot!
Silly me!
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Gin & Tonic:
Yes, it is an accepted fact that when a person acts like a small-minded pedant, as you have, the person pointing out that you are acting like a small-minded pedant is clearly the tiresome one.
Not the, you know, small-minded pedant.
Clearly.
Tx. for illuminating us. You are a treasure.
Aleta
Yuja Wang: Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Omnes Omnibus:
No. Actually you didn’t. You tried to elide the fact that you acted like a dick in your first interaction with me. That would be the problem here.
What you did is went out of your way to publicly criticize how I write. Objectively: that’s what you did. If you are honest. Which, even at this late hour, I would like to think you are capable of.
Now what you *feel**, which is quite another matter, is that you “tried to be nice”. You tried to cover up that you acted like a dick after I said that’s how you were behaving inna forthright manner that you object to. It’s OK. Most people lash out unfairly when called out, you are no different.
But you’d rather not admit that that is true. Hence the problem.
Which is OK. Most people are incapable of being honest with themselves and would rather assuage their egos than admit: “You know, that *was* kind’va dickish thing that I said that I really didn’t need to express cuz what did it help? It’s only my opinion?”
But that would require you being a bigger man than you are prepared to be.
Which is OK. We are who we are. And you did what you did. You’ve got many champions who are more’n willing to agree that you didn’t act like a dick, partly because they are acting like dicks, too.
That, sad to say, is the world we live in. Enjoy.
Aleta
@Aleta:
This one doesn’t have little glitches like the first video I put up–sorry about that.
Gershwin, Yuja Wang & Camerata Salzburg
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
New record for the Pie filter for me with our new troll.
Aleta
@Aleta:
It’s different than it’s mostly performed. She has a way of making small alterations, in classical pieces too, that are interesting and beautiful to me. Esp in classical stuff she’s very sensual through the movement of her hands.
Corner Stone
This went from odd to bugfuck nuts to parody.
Aleta
@poleaxedbyboatwork: It’s OK to keep writing the way you like here. If someone hurts you, you can skip over those comments w/o finishing reading them, or go to another thread.
Gin & Tonic
@Aleta: Completely different, but I have this on CD, and for some reason the opening notes would make our then-cat race out of the room.
Corner Stone
@Aleta: No it isn’t. “kind’va”? “more’n”?
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Corner Stone:
Funny. I reckoned the puling hypocrisy went from cornered to stoned.
But ymmv
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: The clarinetists who get the solo seem to run with the chance to be painfully dramatic. Sets the mood with a jolt though.
Corner Stone
@poleaxedbyboatwork: You need to lay off the sauce, Jimmy.
Smiling Mortician
Way too much pie in this thread. No really, I couldn’t eat another bite.
Aleta
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Corner Stone:
Curious what in my manner of expression would lead you to believe that I’ma drinkin’? Is it because I think you are such a dishonest coward and am willig to forthrightly say so?
Nope, couldn’t be that. Must be because you disagree with me, and are wllling to join the dogpile.
Has anyone countered the point — that it is an objectiely dickish behavior to demand that a poster adhere to another’s aesthetics of expression just b/c they (dickishly) say so?
Ain’t heard a peep on that score.
What I’ve heard a lottuv, Corner Stone, is opportunistic chickenshits like you taking this opportunity to show your mad internet courage in insulting me.
It ain’t me that looks like a overbearing bully in this imbroglio. You might stop n think about that for a minnit. (In betwixt making stupid allusions to my lack of sobriety.)
Sebastian
@poleaxedbyboatwork:
* you’re
Amir Khalid
I don’t pie commenters who come looking for a fight. I find it is better to just ignore them. I now do that with you.
Corner Stone
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Aktshully, I was referring to A1 sauce. It can cause more’n heartburn or acid reflux if not used in a kind’ve moderation.
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Sebastian:
Yup. Tx.
“Your you’re is my mire, homonymicaly speakin’.”
Gretchen
@poleaxedbyboatwork: Why are you still here? You seem not to like anything anyone is saying, you’re not enjoying being here, why do you keep coming back? There are probably other forums you would find more welcoming. Why not go to them?
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Amir Khalid:
Whilst I disagree with your self-serving and self-congratulatory characterization (and find it especially comical coming from a person whose first interaction with me was to call me a poltroon), I expect your conclusion is admirably direct.
Your commendable virtue done been righteously signaled. Well done.
ohthatguy
If I were the head writer for real life, when Trump shows up to meet Kim, Kim would exit and Mueller would enter with a list of questions. I am guessing the dotard would sprint out
poleaxedbyboatwork
@Gretchen
This is actually a very good question. Sort of.
The question is genuine, and I will try’n address it directly like I do (for good or ill) everything. Must say, tho’: Implicitly understood (in my reading, correct me if I’m wrong) is the erroneous premise that I do not like anything anyone here says. Not true! I have found much solace n comfort n information n education n inspiration in our maddeningly surreal age whilst reading these digital pages, both front-pagers’ writings and those of many of the commenters (even, ironically, some of those who have, imo, slagged on me rather shabbily).
But: That said, I ain’t one to take a kick in the teeth for a welcom n say thank you.
Look, I don’t expect anyone to go back in the archives and figger out who’s right or who’s wrong (fuckit; life is short n who cares, really?).
Additionally, I ain’t gotta lotta free time n prolly won’t post a whole lot anyways, so again — who cares? And nor do I have any intention of disrupting anyone’s experience apart to replying to those who can’t help from sticking their oars in the water to me.
But I will say: when treated shabbily and having done not much more’n pointed that out to those responsible n *then* characterized by those who made rude and unreasonable demands upon me and how I write as tho it’s *my* goddamn fault that they acted like dicks. No. Bridge too far.
So perhaps that won’t satisfy, but that’scher answer. I like the front-pagers. I like many of the commenters. It’s a valuable community and if I am not accepted, I in no way begrudge it of or for you (or anyone).
So there’s that.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@poleaxedbyboatwork:
You’re a long-winded, pretentious troll.
tybee
and he’s also right.
WaterGirl
Wow. The new troll shit all over this thread. On the positive side, even though I quit reading his comments after about the 5th one, it made the decision to pie him absolutely clear.