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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Evening Diversion Open Thread: Boomer Daytona Spring Break

Evening Diversion Open Thread: Boomer Daytona Spring Break

by Anne Laurie|  March 11, 20185:28 pm| 221 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Clown Shoes, Riveted By The Sociological Significance Of It All

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What's big at Daytona Bike Week 2018? Custom-built golf carts, of course! https://t.co/p2ihuRiVwb

— Mark Harper (@MarkHarper36) March 9, 2018

You *We* are old, Father William…

At just 13 feet long, the Benz lookalike turns heads, especially in The Villages, Carrino said of the diminuative hotrod.

“That used to be a golf cart,” Carrino said, shutting one of two suicide doors. “And there’s only one in the world like it.”

Carrino is part of a team of custom bike builders at Midwest Motocycle, doing occasional fabrication work for ground-up, custom rides. But since custom motorcycles fell off drastically in the recession, the bike builders who play a starring role at Daytona Bike Week have diversified. Enter the custom golf-cart scene…

Electric golf carts are a nearly $1 billion industry and the market for them was forecast to grow globally by 6.4 percent between 2016 and 2026, Future Market Insights reports. Analysts say that’s because people use them not just for golf courses, but also for personal use in suburban neighborhoods or large properties and industrial or business transport, according to London-based research firm Future Market Insights. “Further, due to heavy demand for eco-friendly products and surging prices of fuel, electric golf carts witness the highest market share of the global golf market,” according to Research and Markets.

Locally, some shop owners say the trend is made possible by the aging biker population. They see potential growth in golf carts on the horizon here in communities like Latitude Margaritaville, Coastal Woods, Mosaic and Venetian Bay…

Pictures on Carrino’s wall dispay former carts that have been transformed into tiny versions of Model Ts, Ford F-150s and Jeeps, minus the emblems, of course, since Carrino doesn’t want challenges over copyright laws. He does most of the work himself, calling in a friend when he gets swamped and outsourcing some of the undercoating for the beach rides. Prices vary according to the work put into them, but Carrino pointed to a 1921 open-wheel Roadster lookalike and said it costs about $7,000.

Custom shop owner Harris is working on some metal flaked and pin-striped, candy-coated carts.

“I do all the paint work on them,” Harris said, noting he’s been doing the carts for about four years. “A Michigan company sends me 20-30 carts at a time.”

Harris said his carts range in price from $7,000 to $45,000. “I can crank them out in a week.”…

You’d wonder why Donny Dollhands doesn’t already have one at Mar-a-Largo designed to look like the Presidential limo, except I’m pretty sure these builders have spent enough time around would-be “outlaws” to insist on cash-only payments, and in advance.

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Reader Interactions

221Comments

  1. 1.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 11, 2018 at 5:36 pm

    You’d wonder why Donny Dollhands doesn’t already have one at Mar-a-Largo designed to look like the Presidential limo a HUUUUGE fire engine/locomotive/18-wheeler truck

    “Vroom VROOM VROOM!!!“

  2. 2.

    EBT

    March 11, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    Been cranking out background art for the first arc of my game. Folks are telling me to polish it up and publish it while I work on arc 2.

  3. 3.

    Chrome agnomen

    March 11, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    Lotta folks with economic anxiety.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 5:42 pm

    A fairly short twitter thread describing how Twitter came to be owned and operated by Russia.
    The TL;DR version is that they knowingly solid their data mining to Russian owned companies and investors in a desperate grasp for profit. And now can’t/won’t do anything about it. The timeline and connections in the twit feed are fascinating if one takes a look.

    “2 Russian state-owned entities with close ties to Vladimir Putin invested money into Facebook and Twitter through Milner.””

  5. 5.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 5:43 pm

    Lot of butt hurt in the comments section of Shashi Tharoor’s op-ed in Washington Post taking aim at the latest Churchill hagiography.

  6. 6.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    @Corner Stone: Twitter, FB and even YouTube are all Russia’s bitches. BTW does anyone know how to disable the odious YouTube “recommended for you” videos.

  7. 7.

    raven

    March 11, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    Come on Tiger!!

  8. 8.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    March 11, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    @EBT: That sounds cool.

  9. 9.

    raven

    March 11, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    @raven: @raven: Ah, great try!

  10. 10.

    Jeffro

    March 11, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    My and my buddies went to Bike Week twice (happened to coincide with our university’s spring break) back in the day. A good time was had by all, as far as I can remember…

  11. 11.

    MikeEss

    March 11, 2018 at 5:54 pm

    …Dolt 45 strikes me as the kind of guy who’d be more interested in riding in a sedan chair carried by women-of-color than in a custom golf cart…

  12. 12.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 5:54 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: *Puts on Dr. Silverman robes*
    “Penetration at all levels.”

  13. 13.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 5:55 pm

    Obligatory Philadelphia FUCK YOU to Boston today after Penn beat Harvard to earn a spot in the tourney.

    Fuck Boston.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    March 11, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Maybe, in lieu of that stupid parade he wants, the Pentagon can buy Trump a tank-themed golf cart.

  15. 15.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 5:59 pm

    @dmsilev: Miniature Dukakis Style!

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 11, 2018 at 6:02 pm

    @dmsilev:

    It’d be a lot cheaper, for sure.

  17. 17.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 6:05 pm

    You’d wonder why Donny Dollhands doesn’t already have one at Mar-a-Largo designed to look like the Presidential limo, except I’m pretty sure these builders have spent enough time around would-be “outlaws” to insist on cash-only payments, and in advance.

    They had a new one made for O’Bummer. I’ll bet Trump had it blown up.

  18. 18.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    March 11, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I haven’t seen the somewhat cranky Philadelphia Lawyer posting in these promiscuous parts in months. Anyone know if he/she is around?

  19. 19.

    Duane

    March 11, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    Speaking of golf, two- dollar Donnie’s weekly golf outings to Mars-a-Go-Go need to end. These miserable pukes want everyone else to sacrifice while they live in grand style. Trump can pay the tab for his extravagence, or go to Camp David like other presidents. Fuckem.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    March 11, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Letting Trump drive around the back yard of the White House making pew pew pew noises would seem like an obvious and not too expensive way of minimizing the time he spends damaging things. Ok, he’d probably damage the shrubbery, but that’s a small price to pay.

  21. 21.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    @MikeEss:

    …Dolt 45 strikes me as the kind of guy who’d be more interested in riding in a sedan chair carried by women-of-color than in a custom golf cart…

    I think the sedan chair would be carried by blondes who all strongly resembled Ivanka.

  22. 22.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    in these promiscuous parts

    What? Where? Promiscuous parts? I done been cheated!

  23. 23.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    “Always blame the white man” is my favorite.

  24. 24.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Chuck Todd looks quite exercised over Trump’s comments at his recent rally.

  25. 25.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 6:18 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: Yes of course, those bloody ungrateful Indians, should thank their masters for giving them civilization along with tea and cricket.

  26. 26.

    B.B.A.

    March 11, 2018 at 6:20 pm

    Adam Serwer takes on Louis Farrakhan from both sides, as only a black Jew can.

  27. 27.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: On a more serious note, your whataboutism not withstanding, if you actually read the piece, Tharoor is holding Churchill to account for the actions he took.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    Can’t trundle down the fairway without a little something to keep those golf pencils pointy.

    What about those a budget who can’t quite justify springing for a golf cart? How about a bicycle seat?

    In other spendy trendy news, a cuckoo his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-(etc., etc.)-grandchildren shall never see.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    Link fail above. Fix.

    Can’t trundle down the fairway without a little something to keep those golf pencils pointy.

  30. 30.

    Duane

    March 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @raven: Tiger’s another trump ass-kisser like most pro golfers. Hope he pulls a muscle.

  31. 31.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I may be wrong but ISTM Humboldt was summarizing the butthurt comments, not his own view.

  32. 32.

    debbie

    March 11, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Snowflakes are going to freak out, but I may have to start reading comic books.

  33. 33.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @Corner Stone: Possible. In that case he is right.

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 6:48 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Lot of butt hurt in the comments section of Shashi Tharoor’s op-ed in Washington Post taking aim at the latest Churchill hagiography.

    A powerful article.

    One of the companion articles is “Woodrow Wilson and Cecil Rhodes Must Fall,” applauding student attempts to have the names of these men removed from any affiliation with Princeton and other institutions.

    Wilson was a white supremacist, no two ways about it. But people could even reject a Year Zero that began with FDR. But honesty about history cannot be avoided.

  35. 35.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 11, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: You mentioned that there were butthurt comments. HB then quoted one as his favorite.

  36. 36.

    Millard Filmore

    March 11, 2018 at 6:51 pm

    Open Thread: Trump wants the death penalty for drug dealers. No doubt selling and growing marijuana will be in the list of capital crimes. Sessions will finally be able to start killing hippies.

  37. 37.

    John Revolta

    March 11, 2018 at 6:52 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Tea and cricket hell, we brought them bagpipes fer Chrissake!!

  38. 38.

    Emma

    March 11, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    I spent a gorgeous afternoon watching the young, vibrant Dance Theater of Harlem go from Brahms to Duke Ellington by way of the most amazing piece of grief by the late choreographer Ulysses Dove called Dancing on the Front Porch of Heaven. So I come home to tell my fellow jackals about this truly incredible experience. And what is the first piece of so-called “trending news” in my recommended list? Another — or maybe the same, they’re all alike — cri de coeur about how papa Obama has abandoned his helpless children.

    I. Can’t. Even. Anymore.

  39. 39.

    MomSense

    March 11, 2018 at 6:58 pm

    @Emma:

    Dance Theater is Harlem is divine.

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 6:58 pm

    @B.B.A.:

    RE: Taking on Farrakhan

    Horse shit.

    The incident is the latest episode in a pattern that has repeated itself ever since Farrakhan’s entry on the national stage. The Nation of Islam leader first rose to national prominence defending Jesse Jackson from accusations of anti-Semitism…

    Farrakhan has been around much longer, and on the national scene. He is probably complicit in the murder of Malcolm X.

    People who defend him are not much different than white goobers who try to tidy up Trump’s birther bullshit.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:01 pm

    The writing contest I entered was supposed to announce the finalists “on or around” yesterday, but so far, nada. Argh. So frustrating.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Louis Farrakhan is the David Miscaivage of the Nation of Islam — he knew about the crimes of the sect’s founder and covered them up to consolidate his own power.

  43. 43.

    Emma

    March 11, 2018 at 7:04 pm

    @MomSense: The Dove piece had me nearly in tears. There’s a duet for two male dancers that is so obviously about the death of one of them and the sense of abandonment of the other that the final moment steals your breath away.

  44. 44.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 7:07 pm

    @Brachiator: Good article, though I thought the author did a disservice to their argument by including things like the Dresden bombing (a non-unilateral act in a hot war with combatants devoted to destroying your country) alongside the actions they’re really trying to criticize.

  45. 45.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    @Emma:

    I keep meaning to see more dance, but I know very little about it, so I feel like kind of a hayseed. We ended up enjoying the Broadway show of An American in Paris more than we expected because it was very ballet-based.

  46. 46.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:11 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Good point — there’s a difference between actions taken in a war between two equal opponents that are slugging it out and actions taken as a colonial invader trying to subdue the local popularion.

    ETA: The Nazis would have loved to do to London in the Blitz what was done to Dresden, but didn’t have the right planning.

  47. 47.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 7:12 pm

    Heard a good comment earlier today.
    “Don’t sweat the petty things, and don’t pet the sweaty things.”

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 7:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Louis Farrakhan is the David Miscaivage of the Nation of Islam — he knew about the crimes of the sect’s founder and covered them up to consolidate his own power.

    Farrakhan doesn’t have much power anymore. But white people love to invoke him to “prove” that black people are the “real racists” and that black political leaders are illegitimate.

  49. 49.

    hellslittlestangel

    March 11, 2018 at 7:18 pm

    @NotMax: FYI, Brian Eno composed the chimes for that clock.

  50. 50.

    Jay

    March 11, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    “People who defend him are not much different than white goobers who try to tidy up Trump’s birther bullshit.”

    The FauxRage Noise Machine is trolling more “whataboutism” and false equivalence after an old photograph of Obama and Farrakan surfaced.

    Rather than ignoring the trolls, the “Usefull Idiots” on the slighly left of center are feeding the FauxRage White Privledge Machine.

  51. 51.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Good article, though I thought the author did a disservice to their argument by including things like the Dresden bombing

    I kinda skipped over that. There’s a certain kind of Lefty that always likes to invoke Dresden or Hiroshima as war crimes committed by the West. There might be a case, but it’s more complex than they usually allow. The rest of the article contained material that a lot of people may not know about.

  52. 52.

    Lymie

    March 11, 2018 at 7:20 pm

    Nice article on the whole self driving car thing. The tl:dr is an experiment with chauffeurs that suggests that they will increase congestion rather than streamline traffic. I wonder if Atrios has seen it:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/are-we-going-too-fast-driverless-cars

    Of course I think it’s good because I agree with the points made.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:22 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I’m betting that he and Jesse Jackson will live on in right-wing memes long after their deaths like Madalyn Murray-O’Hair still does. They’re too useful to not be made immortal.

  54. 54.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    A few days ago I was driving home from work, in heavy traffic, when a bunch of go-cart like things sped past me. Going ~ 60 MPH. At least one of them was going down the highway on just its back wheels, the driver standing up as if it was the most normal thing in the world…

    :-/

    Crazy kids…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 7:26 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Farrakhan doesn’t have much power anymore

    The New Black Panthers were three guys on a street corner. Reality doesn’t mmatter.

  56. 56.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 7:27 pm

    @Brachiator: right, which is why I thought it was bad that they sort of led with Dresden (iirc). It made it seem like the rest might also be cranky lefty anti war stuff. (I know it wasn’t, but that’s why I thought it was a misstep.)

  57. 57.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    Locally, some shop owners say the trend is made possible by the aging biker population. They see potential growth in golf carts on the horizon here in communities like Latitude Margaritaville, Coastal Woods, Mosaic and Venetian Bay…

    In articles about Trump’s tariff war, astute reporters noted that the domestic market for Harley Davidson bikes was declining because of the aging biker population, and the company was pinning its hopes on expansion in the international market. Which would be hurt by a tariff war.

    I used to commute with a guy who worked for a battery company. I think he once commented about the company making batteries for golf carts and custom vehicles.

  58. 58.

    John Revolta

    March 11, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    @Ruckus: Good one. Carlin, I believe.

  59. 59.

    MomSense

    March 11, 2018 at 7:31 pm

    @Emma:

    One of my favorites.

  60. 60.

    Emma

    March 11, 2018 at 7:34 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I want to see that as soon as it gets here. I am not a big dance connoisseur, and I have the proverbial two left feet, but I like to experience it second hand. Next month we’ll go see I Am Tango. A totally different kind of dance but just as rigidly demanding.

  61. 61.

    EBT

    March 11, 2018 at 7:34 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Yeah, it’s exciting. I have A Thing coming together.

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    @Lymie:

    Nice article on the whole self driving car thing.

    Thanks for the link. Been talking about this with a co-worker and recently listened to a good discussion on my local public radio station. I think driverless cars may arrive sooner than some think. We are lurching 2 steps forward for every 1 step back.

    It ain’t gonna be Nirvana. I think there might be more cars on the road. One guest on the public radio show talked about hundreds of zombie vehicles driving around with no passengers. And people sending cars on short trip errands to pick up groceries or takeout orders. This would definitely clog up roads.

    And auto insurance rates for the few individuals who insisted on driving might go steeply higher.

    Oh, brave New world…

  63. 63.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 7:44 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes. I didn’t see the quotes he put around the comment when I replied to him. I plead guilty to distracted commenting.

  64. 64.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 7:46 pm

    @Brachiator: IMO it’s a particularly stupid distraction from actual mass transport solutions.
    The first time a driverless car kills someone in an accident or pedestrian event this will be interesting.

  65. 65.

    John Revolta

    March 11, 2018 at 7:47 pm

    @Mnemosyne: The Blitz was pretty fking bad. What didn’t the Nazis get to do to London that we did to Dresden? Bearing in mind that London is much bigger.

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    March 11, 2018 at 7:48 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Obligatory Philadelphia FUCK YOU to Boston today after Penn beat Harvard to earn a spot in the tourney.

    Fuck Boston.

    Philly has vastly better rock n’ roll, that’s for sure.

  67. 67.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 7:50 pm

    @Corner Stone: And yet human-driven cars kill 38,000 people every year, and we’re all “ho-hum.”

  68. 68.

    Jeffro

    March 11, 2018 at 7:52 pm

    @debbie: Thanks for the tip, had no idea TNC was about to start writing Cap!

    Marvel is really leading the way these past several years, with the new Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Jane Foster/Thor, Sam Wilson as Cap, and so on. They had the first openly gay superhero character (Northstar) oh, about 25 years ago – he married his long-time boyfriend a few years ago in X-MEN, I believe.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    @John Revolta:

    The firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo were way more horrific than the Blitz. We literally don’t know how many people were killed because so many were incinerated. But there’s no doubt that the Nazis would not have held back if they’d had the same technology, or if they’d been the first to develop a nuclear bomb. So IMO it’s a little hypocritical to scold the Allies for doing something the equally matched enemy would not have hesitated to do.

    British actions in India and other colonized places are a different story IMO because the two sides were not equally matched and the British were the invaders.

  70. 70.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 11, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    @Corner Stone: Because Trump finally got around to insulting him? So now all of a sudden he has discovered that Trump is an ignorant bully? Good to know.

  71. 71.

    Jeffro

    March 11, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    @Jay: Farrakhan…man, they are really reaching, aren’t they? And that’s just what I tell RWNJs who try to dredge him up as some sort of influential Dem/progressive.

    An 84-year-old conservative clerk of the court or pastor in the hinterlands of rural Mississippi has more influence with the national Republican party than Farrakhan has with the national Democratic party. Hell, a semi-popular YouTube wingnut commenter has 10x the influence. Farrakhan. Gimme a break. Next it’ll be Jane Fonda.

  72. 72.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 8:00 pm

    @Corner Stone: Already happened, in 2016:

    When Joshua Brown’s Tesla slammed into the side of a tractor-trailer last year at more than 70 miles per hour, the fatal accident became the world’s first known car crash involving a partly autonomous vehicle.

    Now, government investigators say that in the minutes leading up to the collision, Brown was audibly warned six times to keep his hands on the steering wheel. He was also warned visually, seven times, on his Tesla’s dashboard.

    In all, Brown had his hands off the wheel for 90 percent of his final drive, according to Tesla vehicle data reviewed by the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB on Monday released a roughly 500-page report detailing the facts of the case, but declined to provide a final analysis or judgment because the investigation is ongoing.

    Included in the evidence are details about the highway where the crash occurred, both vehicles involved and, crucially, behavioral information from the Tesla that sheds light on Brown’s activities immediately before the accident. The case is being closely watched, because the outcome of the investigation could affect consumer attitudes toward Tesla, automation and self-driving technology in particular.

    Brown’s final drive in his Tesla lasted 41 minutes, according to the NTSB. Of those 41 minutes, 37 were spent with the autopilot enabled. Autopilot is Tesla’s term for its high-end cruise control feature that can help a vehicle stay in its lane semi-autonomously. The company declined to comment on the report.

    […]

    Atrios is right that it’s not going to work as well as it’s being pitched – especially in cities (construction, double-parked vehicles, detours, etc., etc.). Collision avoidance, autonomous braking, etc., as backup safety systems are good features, but Uber’s dream of getting rid of drivers is just that. And he’s right that efforts to carve out special lanes in cities for driverless cars is a very bad idea. It will make congestion worse, it’s a subsidy for the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of everyone else, and won’t make “true autonomy” come any faster.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  73. 73.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 11, 2018 at 8:03 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Farrakhan doesn’t have much power anymore. But white people love to invoke him to “prove” that black people are the “real racists” and that black political leaders are illegitimate.

    Exactly. No different from the outrage that Conservatives feigned because President Obama used to visit Jeremiah Wright’s church from time to time and Rev Wright turned out be a loose cannon. Farrakhan hasn’t been much in the news since the Million Man March from the mid 1990s. He’s toothless.

  74. 74.

    Jeffro

    March 11, 2018 at 8:03 pm

    Meanwhile, here we go: the Trumpov Administration has released a number of proposals to help curb school violence (a threat that grabs headlines, but is and has been on the decline for years)

    Trump’s proposed Federal Commission on School Safety aims to develop a process to evaluate and make recommendations on school safety, the administration said.
    The commission plans to focus on several areas, including age restrictions for certain firearm purchases; current entertainment rating systems; youth consumption of violent entertainment; best practices for school building and campus security and threat assessment and violence prevention; plans for integration and coordination of federal resources to help prevent and mitigate shootings at schools; and opportunities to improve access to mental health treatment, including through efforts to raise awareness of mental illness and the effectiveness of treatment

    How about age restrictions for ALL firearms purchases? How about we quit pretending video games cause school shootings – they have them in all other countries, it’s access. to. guns. that increases the number of shootings. None of this ‘hardening of schools’ crap – they are already locked down quite well, thank you, and armed guards/deputies continue to not solve the problem.

    The rest is all no-dollars, anything-but-restricting gun ownership (i.e., gun buying) bullshit.

  75. 75.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:04 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Better mass transpo reduces that number somewhat. But it does not get resolved until we as a society decide to invest in an updated infrastructure. Driverless cars are not an answer.

  76. 76.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 8:04 pm

    @Mnemosyne: One point that Tharoor does not make is that without resources from India, in terms of men and materials, all the soaring speeches in the world would not have amounted to much. The British Indian armed forces were treated so poorly after the war, that they openly revolted after the end of the war. Thus driving the final nail in the Empire’s coffin.
    Check out Red Fort trials and Indian Naval mutiny for more.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    @Jeffro:

    current entertainment rating systems; youth consumption of violent entertainment;

    This is the only thing they’ll work on.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    March 11, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I learn so much from your comments.

  79. 79.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    @Jeffro

    Northstar’s coming out of the closet was a p.r. gimmick to try to boost sales on the sagging Alpha Flight title. His sexuality, for all intents and purposes, wasn’t mentioned again within the Marvel Universe after that issue for about a decade.

  80. 80.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 11, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Interesting. Sounds like what happened in the U.S. after WWII with African American vets leading the Civil Rights movement.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I’m reading a Truman biography right now, and it says what turned Truman to support civil rights was that black servicemen were coming home and getting killed by Southern segregationists. Funny how we don’t talk about that anymore but continue to obsess over apocryphal stories of Vietnam vets getting spit on.

  82. 82.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    @Corner Stone: I don’t think driverless cars are trying to be an answer though. They’re just trying to be driverless cars.

    ETA anything else is spin or bullshit

  83. 83.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Grifters of all stripes are trying to capture monies for themselves by using “driverless cars” as a response. Monies that should be going to mass transportation solutions.
    The bullshit itself is the concept of driverless cars with no initial societal investment.

  84. 84.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    @Baud: So spitting on a white vet is worse than murdering a black vet. It’s not surprising, but it is disgusting.

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Patricia Kayden and Baud beat me to it, but that’s very similar to how the American Civil Rights Movement started. Rev. Martin Luther Kng Jr. was too young to fight in WWII, but just the right age to be inspired by Gandhi’s success in India.

  86. 86.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:22 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Monies that should be going to mass transportation solutions.

    I don’t know why this isn’t said all day, every day.

  87. 87.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 8:23 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    IMO it’s a particularly stupid distraction from actual mass transport solutions.

    Mass transport has problems with first mile/last mile solutions. People want to go door to door, when they want and where they want. Fixed routes to general locations don’t always cut it.

    @Another Scott:

    it’s a subsidy for the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of everyone else

    In the beginning, yes. But you could say much the same about the early automobile. Also, with cars, the electric starter was key, disruptive technology. In the earliest days, a wealthy person who had a driver who could also hand crank the engine was at a distinct advantage. But with key improvements, soon women could … gasp … drive themselves. Civilization itself might have collapsed.

  88. 88.

    Lapassionara

    March 11, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    @raven: Close. Nice to see. It has been a while.

  89. 89.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    @Brachiator:

    People want to go door to door, when they want and where they want. Fixed routes to general locations don’t always cut it.

    This is amusing. That’s what Silicon Valley Bros may want.

  90. 90.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Completely agree. I would add that the driverless car people will never admit that. (I am sure this isn’t news to you.) They are pretending that it’s a solution, and like all the other BS, it seems to be accepted by most without question.

    I want more money for trains, dammit.

    edited

  91. 91.

    efgoldman

    March 11, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Philadelphia FUCK YOU to Boston today

    Really, nobody gives a flying fuck about Ivy hoops.

  92. 92.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    It seems to me that “Hitler would have done it” is a dubious starting point for a moral argument. The Strategic Bombing Campaign was a moral abomination, and out willingness to justify it led inevitably to further bombing of civilian targets in Vietnam and a willingness to destroy the whole world in the Cold War.

  93. 93.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    Busted.

    The FBI has arrested the owner of Phantom Secure, one of a number of phone companies that it claims sells customised BlackBerry and Android devices for use in international criminal organisations.

    Per Motherboard, court records and interviews with anonymous sources indicate that the FBI, along with Canadian and Australian police, targeted Phantom Secure for deliberately selling drug cartels phones designed for criminal activity. According to the report, the FBI says that the company and CEO Vincent Ramos knew full well that their devices were being used in violent crime:

    A complaint filed in the Southern District of California on Thursday charges Vincent Ramos, the founder and CEO of Canada-based Phantom, with racketeering conspiracy to conduct enterprise affairs, as well as conspiracy to distribute narcotics, and aiding and abetting. Authorities arrested Ramos on Thursday, according to the court docket. Crucially, the complaint alleges that Ramos and Phantom were not simply incidental to a crime, like Apple might be when a criminal uses an iPhone, but that the company was specifically created to facilitate criminal activity.

    Source

  94. 94.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    until we as a society decide to invest in an updated infrastructure.

    Maybe that’s next after we as a society decide whether fasism is acceptable.

  95. 95.

    efgoldman

    March 11, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    @Millard Filmore:

    Sessions will finally be able to start killing hippies.

    They’re going to start dying off soon, anyway

  96. 96.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    @NotMax: hmm, so I’m not in a position to click and read about that in depth right now, but were the phones just set up for crypto and anonymity, or did they have like the NarcKiller™️ app package installed?

    @Baud: you know who else liked infrastructure?

  97. 97.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    @NotMax: From your link:

    Undercover Canadian police also reported that when asked if the phones were good for “sending MDMA to Montreal,” Phantom staff replied that would be “totally fine.”

    “We made it – we made it specifically for this [drug trafficking] too,” Ramos allegedly told undercover police.

    It’s a good thing so many criminals are really not smart.

  98. 98.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The phones in question had cameras, microphones, and standard connectivity functions disabled and a version of Pretty Good Privacy that routes messages overseas added, with FBI alleging the company allowed customers to remotely wipe data.

  99. 99.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Damn skippy.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Rev. Martin Luther Kng Jr. was too young to fight in WWII, but just the right age to be inspired by Gandhi’s success in India.

    Bayard Rustin, born in 1912, did not serve in the military during WW II, but travelled to India in 1948, to learn about non-violent civil resistance, and later helped teach Dr King and others in the civil rights movement.

  101. 101.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Well sure, but why pass up a gifted and perfect chance to say FUCK BOSTON!

    I mean that’s always called for.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    It was an abomination in Vietnam because we used the tactic against people who could not retaliate in kind. It’s hard for me to get outraged that the countries that bombed Guernica and raped Nanking got paid back in kind, but easy for me to be horrified that we acted like bullies and used those same tactics without justification in places that had no chance of hitting back at us.

  103. 103.

    Luthe

    March 11, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    @Jeffro: The thing is, even if the age restrictions on firearms is increased, kids can still get their hands on their parents’ guns. Banning entire classes of guns is the only way to stop people from getting them (and even then the grandfathered ones will still be there).

    As for mental illness screening, how do you screen for white male entitlement? Because that seems to be the thing that links most mass shooters.

  104. 104.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    @WaterGirl: soooo… that should be legal. Maybe they were marketed as the NarcKiller™️ line of phones?

    ETA not asking other people to read for me! I’ll stop

  105. 105.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    @Luthe: Party registration?

  106. 106.

    satby

    March 11, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    @Baud: so… I shouldn’t hold my breath you’re saying.

  107. 107.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: …won’t let me edit. Got a chance to read it! What a bunch of assholes.

  108. 108.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    @Luthe:

    The thing is, even if the age restrictions on firearms is increased, kids can still get their hands on their parents’ guns.

    Only if the parents are idiots. And I understand that many are. But you have to just not give a shit about yourself or anyone else to not take care.

  109. 109.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    Here’s a little more info, from a different link (emphasis added).

    The heavily redacted complaint, written by FBI Special Agent Nicholas Cheviron, alleges that even members of the notorious Sinaloa drug cartel used Phantom’s devices, and that the “upper echelon members” of transnational criminal groups have bought Phantom phones. A second source also familiar with the secure phone industry told Motherboard that the devices have been sold in Mexico, Cuba, and Venezuela, as well as to the Hells Angels gang. Cheviron estimates that 20,000 Phantom devices are in use worldwide, with around half of those in Australia; bringing in tens of millions of dollars of revenue to Phantom.
    [snip]
    In addition to removing the microphone and camera from BlackBerry devices, Phantom also takes out GPS navigation, internet browsing, and normal messenger services, the complaint reads. Phantom then installs Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) software to send encrypted messages, and routes these messages through overseas servers, the complaint alleges. The complaint points to Hong Kong and Panama as countries “believed by PHANTOM SECURE to be uncooperative with law enforcement.” Phantom can also remotely wipe devices in the event they are seized by authorities. Source

  110. 110.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I don’t think driverless cars are trying to be an answer though. They’re just trying to be driverless cars.

    I think driverless cars could be a big part of solving the first mile/last mile problem in public transit systems, especially in places like American suburbs where getting people to and from mass transit hubs is a serious limit to the system as a whole. I doubt that’s how they’re going to be used in practice, or at least not most of the way they’re going to be used in practice, but it is a valid use for them.

  111. 111.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @Elizabelle: Aww thanks!

  112. 112.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @NotMax: I’m waiting to see why this is a legal problem.

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    This is amusing. That’s what Silicon Valley Bros may want.

    First mile/last mile is a standard transportation problem. Ain’t got shit to do with what Silicon Valley Bros want.

    Also, some of them have special mass transportation. Buses that go directly to their tech campuses, and which by definition exclude the public.

  114. 114.

    satby

    March 11, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    People want to go door to door, when they want and where they want. Fixed routes to general locations don’t always cut it.

    while the average American teeters on the edge of obesity (some of us have fallen in ?) because we’d rather croak than walk 8 blocks to a bus or train.

  115. 115.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @NotMax: this is my concern. This should not be illegal:

    In addition to removing the microphone and camera from BlackBerry devices, Phantom also takes out GPS navigation, internet browsing, and normal messenger services, the complaint reads. Phantom then installs Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) software to send encrypted messages, and routes these messages through overseas servers, the complaint alleges

  116. 116.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    In other news, FYI.

    Rights activists in Pakistan expressed concern Sunday over a court ruling that would require people to declare their religion on all official documents, saying it could lead to the persecution of minorities, particularly adherents of the Ahmadi faith.

    The Islamabad High Court ruling on Friday also requires that citizens take a religious oath upon joining the civil service, armed forces or judiciary.

    Zohra Yusuf, a board member at the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, called the ruling “very dangerous.” She said her group would issue a statement in the coming days.

    “Religion is someone’s personal affair, not a matter of public display,” she said. “The oath thing is nothing but discrimination, and would show the government has no belief that minorities, too, are patriotic.” Source

    (Please, don’t anyone tell Dolt 45, Pence or Sessions about this.)

  117. 117.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 11, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    @WaterGirl: Including the criminals affiliated with the Orange Bigot.

  118. 118.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    March 11, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    Well the NCAA, shows its’ ass again, Oklahoma has no reason being there, but when you have that telegenic wunderkind Trae Young, I bet they had some calls from the TV execs.(Be a Portland State, DePauw, Bowling Green or a Washington State, and have two wins since January and try to get in.)

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Had to turn to Wikipedia to refresh my memory — Rustin was a lifelong pacifist who was imprisoned towards the end of WWII for refusing to be drafted:

    Declared pacifists who refused induction into the military, Rustin, Houser, and other members of FOR and CORE were convicted of violating the Selective Service Act. From 1944 to 1946, Rustin was imprisoned in Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary, where he organized protests against segregated dining facilities. During his incarceration, Rustin also organized FOR’s Free India Committee. After his release from prison, he was frequently arrested for protesting against British colonial rule in India and Africa.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: As I’m learning through the Mueller investigation, it’s all about intent.

    A complaint filed in the Southern District of California on Thursday charges Vincent Ramos, the founder and CEO of Canada-based Phantom, with racketeering conspiracy to conduct enterprise affairs, as well as conspiracy to distribute narcotics, and aiding and abetting. Authorities arrested Ramos on Thursday, according to the court docket. Crucially, the complaint alleges that Ramos and Phantom were not simply incidental to a crime, like Apple might be when a criminal uses an iPhone, but that the company was specifically created to facilitate criminal activity.

    bolding mine.

    PS I already had the link open, so it was easy to copy, no imposition at all!

    PPS. I saw no mention of the trademark you noted in your comment.

  121. 121.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    @John Revolta:
    Turns out you are correct. Should have known it would be Carlin, too good to come from the source I heard it from. But chops to him for knowing Carlin.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I haven’t read the article, but any otherwise innocent act is illegal if done with intent to further a criminal conspiracy.

    ETA:. WaterGirl got there first.

  123. 123.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    @Brachiator:

    First mile/last mile is a standard transportation problem.

    That is a standard problem for people who expect to be dropped off at their doorstep. People that ride the bus just want an option where they can take one bus from origin to destination, and not take 2 hours and three buses to get from place to place.

  124. 124.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Who are the assholes?

  125. 125.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    I think the idea is that driverless taxis will be so convenient they’re get people to abandon, or at least pare down, car ownership. It seems stupid to me. It will probably work OK in places where there are already taxis with drivers, but unless it’s going to reduce the cost of a ride enormously, it’s not going to expand much beyond that.

  126. 126.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    I don’t have anything to say, just that after long and busy days like today, when I too tired to think much, the threads here are always amusing and somehow comforting. Thank you all for being you.

  127. 127.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Rustin was awesome.

    @WaterGirl: yeah, I got that intent matters, I just always get concerned because it’s no secret that many in the government (like Biden when he was a senator) would like this stuff to be illegal.

    @WaterGirl: the Phantom people!

  128. 128.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @satby: I sure don’t want to walk 8 blocks after dark, and when I’m already tired. And do it on a regular basis, which seems like it would make a person an easy target.

  129. 129.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    https://youtu.be/3OTTgH-sNmw

  130. 130.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @Baud

    Yup. Driving a car isn’t illegal. Knowingly driving a getaway car is.

  131. 131.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    IANAL, but I’m pretty sure the illegal part is that they’re advertising and selling the devices specifically to facilitate crimes, not the way they’re set up. Though I suppose there may be some kind of patent infringement if they’re altering BlackBerries from how they were sold.

  132. 132.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Yep, their stupidity is the only thing saving us from circumstances that would be even worse than what they have inflicted upon us.

  133. 133.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @Brachiator:
    OTOH, at least in theory the driverless car will at least be concentrating on driving, not texting at 70mph. Watched a guy behind me last week, would run up to almost tailgating me, fall back 200 yards, did that half a dozen times, almost hit the wall on his left a couple of times and ran out of his lane on the right 3 times. Fun times being in the same county with him.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @Baud:

    Maybe that’s next after we as a society decide whether fasism is acceptable.

    I thought the fascists were generally proponents of infrastructure construction.

  135. 135.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    @NotMax:

    Even my dumbass can grasp that.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Thank you for your contribution to the debate!

    Would anyone else like to take the anti-fascist side?

  137. 137.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @WaterGirl: It’s not a last mile problem, no matter what some claim. Investing in mass transportation makes a lot of other options available.

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    the Phantom people!

    I mostly assumed that’s who you meant, but you had seemed to be on the side of the phantom people before that, and I hadn’t yet seen your later responses.

    It’s always about the benjamins. As I type that, I find myself wondering how that word started being used to mean $$.

  139. 139.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @Roger Moore: As an American suburnite who lIves exactly one mile from a bus stop (and a very nice mile it is, mostly flat and sidewalks all the way), and who actually does take the bus on ocassion, the problem isn’t that mile, it’s the fact that the bus hardly ever runs.

    Buses that are an hour apart are frustrating and difficult to use. It took an extra few minutes to run your errands and you missed the bus? Better hope the weather is nice, there is somewhere to sit, and your phone has enough charge to keep you entertained for the next 40 to 50 minutes.

  140. 140.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @WaterGirl: i wasn’t/am not on the side of the Phantom people, I was concerned that the government might be making the claim that making software and hardware for the purpose of evading snooping is illegal. Again, these are people who tried to ban encrypted email 25 years ago.

  141. 141.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Corner Stone: I am all for mass transportation. Adding more cars to the road, driverless or otherwise, creates more problems than it solves.

  142. 142.

    John Revolta

    March 11, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Baud: @Major Major Major Major: Then there’s that whole destruction of evidence thing.

  143. 143.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 11, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @satby:

    because we’d rather croak than walk 8 blocks a block to a bus or train

    Fixed it for ya.

  144. 144.

    rikyrah

    March 11, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    Peanut and I went to see A Wrinkle In TIme

    We both loved it. It was a beautiful looking film. I loved the young girl who plays the lead. I don’t think I’m spoiling when I say that the moment our heroine- Meg- finally finds her father, made me cry.
    Peanut was like ‘ Auntie, are you crying?’, and I had to nod. She just held my hand.
    One reviewer said that the movie was a love letter to Black girls, and I thought that was true. BUt, I think that Ava brought out why girls over decades have related to Meg. She’s not the beautiful, composed, most popular girl.
    Meg is brainy, awkward, with flaws, but brilliant, and we can see the heroine in her before she can feel it herself. I thought Ava did a fabulous job bringing forth Meg into flesh.

  145. 145.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    @Baud: Aw gee…

    Love Frank Sinatra. All the moms and aunts around me growing up had had big crushes on him when they were young, and it rubbed off.

  146. 146.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m with you on that. I use an iPhone, and I am really glad that Apple has been standing their ground on security issues and that they continue to improve security. At least I assume they are still doing that with each model, haven’t paid much attention in the last year or so. Since maybe November of 2017.

  147. 147.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    @WaterGirl: I believe iPhones still have pretty top shelf built-in end-to-end communications (within realms they control, like iMessage). Haven’t been super plugged into that realm for a bit though.

  148. 148.

    FlyingToaster

    March 11, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    Some improved news, here in Watertown.

    We have 3 cherry pickers, two up, one shining lights, getting the power lines off of my front yard. They’ve been here for 3 hours, so it turned out not to be a simple problem like the tech initially thought. They may be stringing new wires. I can’t tell. They have the old line hanging suspended above the sidewalk, instead of hanging in my pine branches.

    It turns out that Verizon owns the broken pole, so tomorrow morning I get to tweet pix of the Eversource lines up and the remaining lines and pole on my bannister/retaining wall/hanging above the sidewalk. Hopefully that will light the same fire under the cable companies and Verizon, since I can’t imagine they think this will stay stable under a foot of snow.

    WarriorGirl will be late to bed tonight; the new pole is right outside her window.

  149. 149.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    Regarding the last mile, all I’ll say is that my mobility impaired mother would have benefited greatly from the type of door-to-door service that driverless cars promise (and I recognize it’s nothing more than a promise at this point). Public transportation was not a feasible option.

  150. 150.

    chris

    March 11, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    I think that driverless cars will be just one more way for the well-to-do to avoid rubbing shoulders with the lower classes which include the Uber driver and the chauffeur. The same with Musk’s Martian colony, it’s a bolthole for those who can afford to leave when this place becomes becomes uninhabitable for whatever reason. I suggest we tax them back to the Stone Age before they leave and before we really do have to eat them.

  151. 151.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Good point.
    Driverless cars take up, like cars with drivers, far more room per “passenger” mile than mass transit. We seem to be looking for solutions that aren’t solutions just because those aren’t the solutions the rest of the more civilized world uses. If they could work on better scheduling for the LA Metro trains, that would be a huge improvement.

  152. 152.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2018 at 9:06 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Chris Pine played the perfect father. I wanted to have his babies after seeing the movie. ??

    It’s definitely a kids’ movie that’s for and about kids, but not everything has to be about adults. I still enjoyed it even though I’m not a kid.

  153. 153.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @WaterGirl:
    Even worse is that not all that many vets got spit on, coming home from service during Vietnam. I’m sure it happened but so far no one I know of had it happen to them. I did once see a sign in a rather large US navy port town that read, “Sailors and dogs stay off the lawn.”
    Nothing I’ve seen or been told about comes anywhere close to people getting murdered for not being white.

  154. 154.

    Fair Economist

    March 11, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I think the idea is that driverless taxis will be so convenient they’re get people to abandon, or at least pare down, car ownership. It seems stupid to me.

    If they work and are even passably affordable, driverless taxes will have a huge advantage in that they can run 24 hours without special costs. At 4% interest, avoiding CA minimum wage 24/365 would justify about a 2 million dollar investment. Basically they can provide service when demand is intermittent, making it much more practical to do without a car as you have a reliable way to get home at 11:30 on a weekday.

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    March 11, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    @WaterGirl

    Some of the impetus for that stems directly from EU rulings and regulations.

  156. 156.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    @Baud: Not to be disrespectful of anyone, but there is a reason it’s called mass transportation. We obviously need different solutions all in the mix. But that is not what Musk or Uber or Google or et al are about. They want that phat cash to not really provide an answer or solution.

  157. 157.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Not to be disrespectful of anyone

    Who the hell are you and what have you done with Corner Stone?

  158. 158.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    @NotMax: Europe cares about end-user privacy a hell of a lot more than we do.

  159. 159.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    That is a standard problem for people who expect to be dropped off at their doorstep. People that ride the bus just want an option where they can take one bus from origin to destination, and not take 2 hours and three buses to get from place to place.

    But part of the problem public transit systems face is attracting new users. A big chunk of that is that many people live beyond what they consider reasonable walking distance of the nearest stop, or that they don’t want to have to make several time-consuming transfers during their commute. Those people might be lured into using public transit if there were a better way of getting to the nearest stop, or to the nearest stop that has frequently scheduled pick-ups. Autonomous taxis might help with that.

  160. 160.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    @FlyingToaster: It took me a year and a half to get all the utility pole pieces completed after my tree fell on the pole in my yard that held the transformer in our neighborhood. It was a total nightmare, which I won’t recount, but I have been watching your story with great interest.

    As I said, it took me 18 months to be able to shame all the entities in order to get the work done. A can do X, but then B has to come out and Y, and then C has to come out and do Z, and only then can A do part Q. I’m leaving out about 5 steps and 3 additional companies. It really drove me nuts.

    But then I didn’t have twitter as a shaming too, really glad for you that you do.

  161. 161.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 9:14 pm

    @Corner Stone: I get that. But the discussion seems to always conflate the technology with the business when people talk about “driverless cars.” I get that everything is interrelated, but I also think we’re going to end up on the losing end of the stick if we focus on the technology, the idealized promise of which (I think) will appeal to people who face my mom’s situation as well as to many others.

  162. 162.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    @Roger Moore: I think that becomes more an issue of density than anything else.

  163. 163.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @rikyrah:

    There was a big event locally about the film. They filmed in Humboldt for about six to eight weeks. The planet Camazotz is the Lost Coast. Locations were Sequoia Park and Patrick’s Point state park.

  164. 164.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: You want me to go Yo Momma Jokes on Baud? Because I am here for that.

  165. 165.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @Ruckus: And it’s all the same today. White girl goes missing, all over the news. Non-white girl goes missing, crickets. She’s probably just a whore anyway, right? It’s so wrong, it makes me crazy.

  166. 166.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    @Baud: I disagree with what i think your point is. It’s a question of investment as a society, not business or technology.

  167. 167.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    @Brachiator: Cities were turning into hell-holes because of all the problems that huge numbers of horses created. Automobiles addressed that problem.

    The very real transportation problems created by ever increasing populations in cities (and quasi-urban areas) won’t be solved by driverless cars.

    As Atrios and (Corner Stone) says, the hype about driverless cars is the grifters trying to get public subsidies at the expense of real solutions (public transit, rationalized parking and roads in cities, etc., etc.).

    It’s pretty transparent, really.

    I’m all for improved technology, as long as disruptions to the lives of people are acknowledged and addresses. Driverless cars don’t (yet, or in the foreseeable future) solve a big enough problem to demand access to the public purse at the expense of public transit, etc.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  168. 168.

    chris

    March 11, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    @WaterGirl Benjamins! Sounds better than Franklins.

  169. 169.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    In the last 3 yrs I’ve used the LA Metro system, a lot. For a while, daily trips across a large part of LA and back. Three trains and a bus far. I can take the system to work as well. But it’s always the first or last bit that is the issue. I complained a bit about the timeliness of the trains above but really it’s the bus that is always the issue. My across LA trip was hampered by the bus only running every 1/2 hr. They changed to every 20 min and that made a huge difference. My work run has the same issue, the last, in this case 2 1/2 mile trip only runs every 1/2 hr. I can walk 2 1/2 miles but the bus is still faster. And so I have to leave 40 min earlier to take the train to work to get there on time. It is cheaper though.

  170. 170.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @Corner Stone: Almost every discussion I’ve seen about this issue talks about it in terms of “driverless cars.” That impression that gives is that people on the left are opposed to the technology itself (and by consequence, that they are dismissive of the potential benefits it can offer). What I don’t see is an alternative plan that says “here’s how we’ll incorporate driverless cars into our nation’s transportation policy.”

  171. 171.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 11, 2018 at 9:25 pm

    @Ohio Mom: Yup, that’s a big problem; especially if you need to change buses/trains.

  172. 172.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @chris: Oh of course! I should have been able to figure that out. thank you!

  173. 173.

    Baud

    March 11, 2018 at 9:28 pm

    @Baud: That impression = The impression

  174. 174.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 9:28 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    I definitely agree with you on the schedule issue. Service infrequent enough that people need a schedule to know when to be at the stop definitely raises the barrier to using public transit. It’s even worse if you need to make transfers, since they’re almost guaranteed to slow things down even further.

  175. 175.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 9:28 pm

    @Corner Stone: I heard earlier that Baud’s a lawyer, so anything’s fair game.

  176. 176.

    Jager

    March 11, 2018 at 9:29 pm

    If I leap into a driver less cab and yell “follow that red Buick and step on it” will it do it? Or I’ve read, if the driver less car gets lost it calls a god damned call center for instructions, now I’m in the middle of no where and an over worked, minimum wage kid is attempting to reprogram my trip.

  177. 177.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    @Jager:

    If I leap into a driver less cab and yell “follow that red Buick and step on it” will it do it?

    No, but neither will a train. Use the right tool for the job.

  178. 178.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I think that becomes more an issue of density than anything else.

    Sure, but there’s a need to get there from here. We need something that works as an interface between mass transit and suburbs designed around the assumption everyone drives everywhere.

  179. 179.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @Corner Stone: Ding ding ding.

    A mile is a 20 minute walk in most places.

    The thing that kills utilization of public transit is the infrequency of buses and the huge amount of time it takes if you live in X and work in Y and have to change routes. My 22 minute drive to work would take 2 hours if I took public transit. I cannot dedicate 4 hours of my day getting to and from work, and most people who have an affordable alternative won’t do it either…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @chris:
    Maybe LA is different but I’ve ridden the EL in Chicago at the end of the work day and the LA metro system and I didn’t see any real difference. People in suits and what I’d call fancy and people in dirty work clothes and everything in between. All just trying to get somewhere. I’ve sat across from two guys talking about how bad the food is in central jail and when did you get out, to people reading classics. I’ve ridden at all hours and while there are fewer well dressed people at midnight on the train, it’s all the same otherwise. Just people being themselves and trying to get somewhere reasonably fast and cheaply.

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Thank You.
    For the laugh.

  182. 182.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    @Baud:

    What I don’t see is an alternative plan that says “here’s how we’ll incorporate driverless cars into our nation’s transportation policy.”

    In the future there may be a place for that service. I agree completely that mobility is freedom, and equality. But, IMO, that is not what anyone is discussing when they fap to the idea of “last mile” or driverless cars.
    I had a much longer rant but I deleted it.

  183. 183.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    @Another Scott: I couldn’t afford my job/commute if taking Uber or Lyft a couple times a week wasn’t a possibility. Probably have to work in some soulless startup instead of education.

  184. 184.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:42 pm

    @Roger Moore: Park N Ride is a mass transpo intermediate solution. Let’s build for that. Subsidize for that. The issue is that counties with mainly suburban populations refuse to commit tax dollars to build the infrastructure needed to make that a partial solution. They want to build tollways and HOV lanes because that’s how someone gets paid.

  185. 185.

    WaterGirl

    March 11, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I can’t decide whether you are giving me a hard time for stating something that everyone knew – that Baud is an attorney – or if that really was news to you.

  186. 186.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Maybe LA is different but I’ve ridden the EL in Chicago at the end of the work day and the LA metro system and I didn’t see any real difference. People in suits and what I’d call fancy and people in dirty work clothes and everything in between.

    I can confirm this for the LA Metro. I’ve been using it as my regular mode of commuting for 2 years*, and you really see all kinds on the train. There are working people commuting, people going to sporting events or an evening on the town, and homeless people riding because it’s a warm place to sit. I’ve seen the same mix in my few trips on BART when visiting the Bay Area.

    *I can count the number of times I’ve driven to work in that time on one hand, and they were all for specific reasons beyond “I didn’t feel like it” or “I was running late”.

  187. 187.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    March 11, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Late, but the only thing you can do is say you don’t want a particular video recommended for you.

  188. 188.

    chris

    March 11, 2018 at 9:46 pm

    @Ruckus: Been there and done that too. Lived and worked in Toronto for five years without a car because it was cheaper to rent one for the odd weekend than the cost of parking. I’m talking about the class of people who have never set foot on a bus or a subway. You know, the ones who can, or think they can, afford to go to Mars.

  189. 189.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 11, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: I owe you an apology for jumping at you, because I didn’t see the quotation marks in your comment when I responded to it. Being self righteous while distracted is not a great look. Sorry.

  190. 190.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    @Baud: In the DC area there’s MetroAccess for people who aren’t able to use transit (and meet the requirements (which are probably too strict, IMO)). Things like that can be part of the transportation mix very easily. If there’s the will to do so. And I think there must be the will to do so, myself.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  191. 191.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @Baud:

    into our nation’s transportation policy.

    What national transportation policy?
    Even if we had one a year ago, we certainly don’t any more. We are well down the road that half our citizens have been fucked so badly, at least in their own minds if nowhere else, that they want to stop all progress with the way things were in the early 1800s, but with pickup trucks. Another segment wants to jump a few generations ahead and only spend money on totally unproven technology, that they will provide for a profit of course, meanwhile the rest of us just want to not starve to death and have a minimal place to live and raise our kids. And who is going to be a leader of such disparate groups?

  192. 192.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @WaterGirl: Baud is gormless. And pantless. Don’t try and ruin him for me.

  193. 193.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 9:54 pm

    Everyone commenting here is looking at autonomous vehicles in place of the personal car to get to work or wherever. But the appeal of autonomous vehicles, at least initially, is in hauling goods, not people. Long-haul trucks can be “autonomized” far more easily that urban taxis. Even if they’re not fully autonomous, imagine, say, six tractor-trailers traveling as a unit, with one driver-supervisor. Or imagine food delivery by autonomous vehicle – you place an order and 30 minutes later an AV shows up at your door, with a heated compartment containing your food that you open with your smartphone. Things will change, but they won’t be *the same* – just as the horseless carriage didn’t just replace the horse-drawn carriage, but made things different. Much of 20th Century urban design and residential planning was based around personal, self-driven autos. But it took years for those concepts to take effect. How many years between the Model T and Levittown?

  194. 194.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 9:54 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I definitely agree with you on the schedule issue. Service infrequent enough that people need a schedule to know when to be at the stop definitely raises the barrier to using public transit

    In Southern California, and presumably elsewhere, buses and trains are equipped with GPS transponders that work with Google and various apps to let you know when the next arrival might be. The services are OK to good when dealing with transfers and alternate routes.

  195. 195.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    @WaterGirl: That was news (and distressing news, at that) to me. I don’t keep track of the personal backgrounds or career choices of most of the commenters.

  196. 196.

    Corner Stone

    March 11, 2018 at 9:57 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Much of 20th Century urban design and residential planning was based around personal, self-driven autos. But it took years for those concepts to take effect. How many years between the Model T and Levittown?

    The Model T could travel on city streets as well as horse paths. We are a ways away from autonomous Convoy.

  197. 197.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 11, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    @Roger Moore: I rode the LA underground one time, and I have to tell you, without the pervasive smell of stale urine it can’t be considered a big-city mass transit system.

  198. 198.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I feel your pain, though I’ve never used Uber or Lyft myself.

    I remember (perhaps faultily) in olden days when bus rides in Atlanta were 10 cents and they came frequently enough that we could use them to get to where we needed to go without it being a huge hassle. Public transit is a huge, huge benefit when it’s frequent enough, inexpensive enough, and reliable enough. It’s a crime that we haven’t kept up with the needs.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @Roger Moore: Oh, I have a bus schedule. I have a choice of three different apps with the schedule, plus the bus company’s website, plus some of the stops are smart ones with electronic displays announcing when the next bus arrives, and I even have some old fashioned paper schedules.

    It’s just not always possible to time my arrival at the bus stop. Sometimes it has to do with whenever whatever I am doing is over, and sometimes it has to do with transfers (as several others have noted).

    It is a circular problem: not enough people take the bus to make more frequent service possible, and less frequent service means less people take the bus.

    One option that ideally should be beefed up while we wait for the utopia of driverless cars is van service for mobility-challenged people like Baud’s mom. The few people I know who are dependent on those sorts of services, who all live in different cities, universally complain the service is terrible. But that is a result of chronic underfunding, not technology.

  200. 200.

    HumboldtBlue

    March 11, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I wear self-righteousness like an ill-fitting cloak.

    Don’t sweat me, you gave me A.R. Rahman after all.

    We good.

    Fuck Boston.

  201. 201.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 10:01 pm

    @chris:
    I know very, very well the people you are talking about. I walk a lot where I live, in Pasadena and there are 2 kinds of people driving. The ones that will wait for you to cross against a light, even when you aren’t going to and wave them on, and the ones that will run you over in a crosswalk because you are in their way. That last group usually drives a foreign SUV of English or German persuasion or a sedan with 400-500 hp for driving on crowed city streets.
    Yes I live around a lot of entitled assholes, why do you ask?

  202. 202.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    @Another Scott: to be clear mine is a last mile problem, I take a bus and train like 40 miles before I run into a complete service dead zone, and there’s no way I could afford full-fare taxis as often as my carpool falls through.

  203. 203.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    A problem is that we’ve built the infrastructure we currently have around private transportation. We mostly haven’t maintained it of course and in a lot of cities the land valuation is so high that really there is not a lot of choice to changing the structure. In CA the trains all run on decades old RR right of ways. Making any new routes would be cost prohibitive. I’d bet it’s this way in lots of areas. We are building additional subways in LA but look at NYC, the subways are old and while there is need there isn’t the will at all, NJ slim stopped the new tunnel project and all for political reasons positive to his broken mind.
    This gets to my point above, we don’t have a national transportation policy. Hell we don’t have much in the way of any type of national policy towards a better life because we are so disparate in how we see the world.

  204. 204.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Ok. More words helps.

    But (to get back to driverless cars), it’s hard for me to see that driverless cars are going to help your last-mile situation much. Uber’s investors are going to want to be paid sometime. They’re hoping that they’ll get a huge payday when Uber drives all the taxi companies out of business, and then even moreso when they can (finally!) fire all their drivers. People investing in Uber (and Lyft) on the promise of monopoly rents aren’t going to sell their stuff/service cheaply if history is any guide.

    So, in Uber’s world, we’ll still have public transit systems with many of the limitations we have now (but perhaps even more “rush-hour” overcrowding as a result of not paying for system expansion in busy stations, etc.), coupled with expensive last-mile fees to monopoly-rent holders. The worst of both worlds for most people.

    It doesn’t have to be that way. We know how to make bus and transit systems work better for more people. We know how to make taxi systems work well for more people. We know how to reduce congestion in cities to make transportation more efficient. We know how to make being a taxi or bus or train driver be less of a dangerous, soul-sucking job. But all of these things take planning, and effort, and money. As we all know…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  205. 205.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @Brachiator:
    It’s more than just the planning, though. It’s what happens if your plan doesn’t work out. Everyone who takes public transit knows the experience of getting to the bus stop or train station just too late to catch your ride. If the next one comes along in under 10 minutes, it’s not a huge deal, but if it will be an hour it’s devastating. The convenience of setting your own schedule rather than sticking to somebody else’s- especially when that somebody is unpredictable- is a huge reason people prefer driving themselves to taking public transit.

  206. 206.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 10:15 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Everyone commenting here is looking at autonomous vehicles in place of the personal car to get to work or wherever.

    Well, not really. Also, some of the testing taking place right now involves freight hauling vehicles. That infrastructure might be built up and commonplace long before personal cars.

    How many years between the Model T and Levittown?

    How many years between the replacement of street cars with passenger automobiles?

    And here’s a little something about the transition from horses…

    For every three people there trod one working horse in the U.S. (There are now 1.3 people for every car in the U.S.)…

    By 1890 New Yorkers took an average of 297 horse-car rides per person a year. (Today, they hail an average of 100 cab rides.)…

    In the end the removal of the horse from urban life and later the farm became a protracted drama that took more than 50 years. It also required the messy adoption of three fossil-fuel technologies.

    Steam engines replaced the horse for long-distance haulage; coal-fired electricity made the horse redundant for public transit and the combustion engine eradicated the horse as a prime mover of individuals and most goods.

    The transition is always tough.

    https://thetyee.ca/News/2013/03/06/Horse-Dung-Big-Shift/

  207. 207.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I’ve ridden transit trains in Boston and don’t remember that smell. And you must not have needed to use the facilities (or even be in the vicinity) in Union Station if you think it doesn’t smell like urine.

  208. 208.

    Roger Moore

    March 11, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    I understand the point about not always being able to match the bus’s schedule. My point is not about having a schedule as it is about needing a schedule. Public transit is very inconvenient if you need to plan your time around their schedule. It works best when the next bus or train is always soon enough that you don’t need to think about it.

  209. 209.

    chris

    March 11, 2018 at 10:36 pm

    @Ruckus: Yup, that’s who I’m talking about.

  210. 210.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    The convenience of setting your own schedule rather than sticking to somebody else’s- especially when that somebody is unpredictable- is a huge reason people prefer driving themselves to taking public transit.

    We are in agreement about this. I mentioned it in my first comments on the topic.

    @Another Scott:

    Uber’s investors are going to want to be paid sometime

    I don’t think that either Uber or Lyft will have anything to do with workable driverless cars systems.

    We know how to make bus and transit systems work better for more people.

    Where do you think the best examples of this might be?

    Also, from looking at other comments here, I don’t see this as public transportation vs driverless cars. Driverless cars may well become part of public transportation. Or not. But I certainly don’t see trains and buses as the final word.

  211. 211.

    The Pale Scot

    March 11, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @John Revolta:

    What didn’t the Nazis get to do to London that we did to Dresden?

    London didn’t get a fraction of what the Allies did to the Axis’s homelands.

    Americans today don’t have a clue of what total war means. The husband of my former landlord (Ivan the Nazi fighting polka junkie) came from a small farming community in Ohio. He showed me a picture of him and his HS classmates taken after WW2. Half of them were in uniform with “I got shot at and lived” ribbons.

    As for Hiroshima, every day the war went on Americans were dying. Accidents from carrier launch and landings, Patrols against all the IJA troops on islands that refused to surrender. Maximum loaded B-29s crashing on takeoff.

    After Hirohito recorded the acceptance of unconditional surrender for later broadcast (six days after Nagasaki and Russia declaring war) IJA officers raided the palace in an attempt to to destroy the recording. .

    IMHO, if Truman had not used nukes and allowed the war to go on, he would have dragged out of the Whitehouse and strung up from a lamp post by the families of guys like Ivan.

  212. 212.

    Brachiator

    March 11, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @NotMax:

    Rights activists in Pakistan expressed concern Sunday over a court ruling that would require people to declare their religion on all official documents, saying it could lead to the persecution of minorities, particularly adherents of the Ahmadi faith.

    Jesus!

  213. 213.

    Jay

    March 11, 2018 at 11:08 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    So far, every attempt at a “real world” demonstration of driverless vehicles in North America, has been defeated by real world infrastructure issues. Lane marking, potholes, missing signage, etc.

    Today was the first day of the spring melt. I spent most of the drive in and back on the FS Road sideways due to the mud/ice. I spent most of the time on the RR, dodging potholes. I spent most of my time on the Highway, dodging flying car parts, ( potholes). I spent most of my time in town, trying to figure out which lane I was in.

    Industry in NA is facing a looming driver/rig shortage. The reasons for that arn’t rocket science. In the 70’s an Owner Operator made a good living, could build a fleet, and a Driver, was mostly Union, and made a good wage, with benifits.

    Now a days, being an Owner/Operator is a great path to bankrupty, and Drivers are killing themselves at barely Minimum Wage.

    Funny that. CF starts their non-union ( used to be Union) drivers at $15.10hr. Back in the late 70’s, I was a Teamster in a Tire Factory and I started at $15.10hr.

    Ever thus, the “plan” for Robot Trucks, rather than a decent living for Drivers and Owner/Operators. I drove Commercial for a while in the early ’80’s, when it was just starting to go downhill, and it was a pretty good way, both longhaul and short, to make a living, if People arn’t your thing.

  214. 214.

    John Revolta

    March 11, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @The Pale Scot: I don’t disagree with any of this. Doesn’t answer my original question though.

  215. 215.

    FlyingToaster

    March 11, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    @WaterGirl: It won’t take that long, but only because I’m doing my best to show who are the good guys (in this case, Eversource) and who aren’t. Also, I’m mean.

    Eversource, the champions, brought in 3 cherry pickers, dealt with some unknown problem on the downstream (otherside of the fallen limbs) pole, and pulled their lines over the top and permanently attached them. They then put a temp clamp on, and raised all of the remaining lines to this side of the pole ~12′ up and attached them. Then they pulled the broken pole top down to the sidewalk and left it on the bare hellstrip (it will be a greenstrip again; it was killed when the whole area was dug up last August-November to pour new roads, sidewalks, driveway ramps, etc.). Verizon is legally obligated to clear that thing, so they’ll fix their wires when that happens. Might even be tomorrow.

    More than likely RCN will show up in a week, and re-string their wire. I don’t know when Comcast will show up, and I’m beginning not to care. The lines are on the pole, and not going to snap and kill anyone or thing, so other than reminding them that these are still in temporary position, they’re not my immediate problem.

    The 12-22 inches of snow will be, real damn soon.

  216. 216.

    J R in WV

    March 11, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @NotMax:

    I have to say, none of the customizing done to phones sounds illegal to me, at all. Encryption is legal, wiping your device remotely is legal, removing GPS is legal… so why can these guys be arrested for selling a custom phone? Just because they told buyers they would be secure?

    Imagine the top business leaders, with hundreds of millions of dollars riding on their next business decision – do they want a secure phone? Of course they do! I’m not in favor of drug cartels doing business of any sort, nor the mafia in NYC… but still…

  217. 217.

    Jay

    March 12, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @J R in WV</@J R in WV:

    They are getting RICO’d because they set the whole enterprise up as a means to facilitate the commission of crimes, avoid convictions for crimes by destroying evidence, in knowing collusion with Criminal Organizations.

    Colluding with the Mafia to set up a “body dump” is more than a little different from having a mobster dig a shallow grave on your property.

  218. 218.

    J R in WV

    March 12, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @Ruckus:

    Actually, I was in the USN during the Vietnam war, and I received nothing but good treatment as a sailor. Car broke down on our move to a new duty station, driving a 1961 Fury in 1972, the local Chrysler dealer in small town Florida rebuilt the distributer, after towing the car to the shop, charged us $19. That was kind.

    We got good treatment from the airlines too, of course they weren’t deregulated yet.

    Also, on a different topic, I’m good with criminal conspiracy being pursued, but not the actual work to make devices more secure.

  219. 219.

    NotMax

    March 12, 2018 at 12:30 am

    @J R in WV

    AFAIK we have not yet been privy as to what all the specific charges are.

  220. 220.

    Jay

    March 12, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @The Pale Scot:

    Funny thing history. While the Luftwaffe had used “terror bombing” before, they were winning the Battle of Britain by targetting the docks and airfields.

    Then a flight got lost and in panic, bombed London by “accident”.

    Bomber Command retaliated, which was quite coincidental, because most of the time, they couldn’t even find Germany.

    Furious , Hitler ordered “The Blitz”, just day’s away from destroying the RAF, the Luftwaffe is ordered to target the Cities.

    Thus began the Western Allies “Strategic Bombing”, which wasn’t “Strategic” at all. “Terror Bombing” against the cities, because by day or night, because they could only hit regions, produced the same effect in German/ Japanese populations as it had Londoners. When by accident, they did actually hit a dock, factory or refinery, they actually improved manufacturing by blowing up a 1918 lathe, which was replaced by a more efficient and modern 1941/42/43/44/45 lathe.

    Meanwhile, in the Soviet Union, lacking long range bomber fleets and a doctrine of “Strategic Bombing”, the Soviets invested in “Frontal Aviation”, which destroyed far more Getman tanks, trucks, artillary and soldiers than the Western Allies bombing, by killing them up close and personal on the battlefield.

    “Strategic Bombing” in the Korean War only helped “make” the Hermit Kingdom,

    Failed in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Gulf War 1, Kosovo too.

  221. 221.

    catclub

    March 12, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): perhaps down by the great grey-green greasy Limpopo river,
    all set about with fever trees.

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