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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Trump-Russia / So Soon?

So Soon?

by @heymistermix.com|  March 15, 201811:59 am| 153 Comments

This post is in: Trump-Russia

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But what about Devin Nunes’ memo?

The Trump administration on Thursday imposed fresh financial sanctions on Russian government hackers and spy agencies to punish Moscow for interfering in the 2016 presidential election, and for a cyberattack against Ukraine and other countries last year that officials have characterized as “the most destructive and costly” in history.

Sanctions also were imposed on individuals known as “trolls” and the Russian organizations that supported their efforts to undermine the election. Additionally, the administration alerted the public that Russia is targeting the U.S. energy grid with computer malware that could sabotage the systems.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of this:

In all, the new sanctions target 19 people and five organizations. Many were indicted last month by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, who is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and whether the Trump campaign coordinated with the Kremlin to sway the race’s outcome. Those 13 individuals and three entities are accused of spreading propaganda using social media and other means, with the goal of sowing discord.

The sanctions also target the KGB and GRU (somehow). I doubt that they’ll make much real difference since the whole Russian hacking effort yielded a high reward for relatively little cash, so they’re going to keep doing it. But, better this than nothing.

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Reader Interactions

153Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:03 pm

    This is good news, however we got here. Putin has a hold on Trump, so anything that strains those ties helps us in the long run.

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm

    Something like 1/3 of the R’s on the House Intel Comt have backed away from the conclusion of their own report.

  3. 3.

    Kay

    March 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm

    Well, they almost had to, right? The UK upped the ante. They looked weak as hell, dithering around and making excuses.

    The inconsistency doesn’t matter to them. They’ll be more than happy to deny it’s happening while they’re admitting it. That’s SOP in Trumpland. That’s the beauty of lying constantly. What you say doesn’t matter at all.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:05 pm

    @Corner Stone: Nunes’s timing is impeccable, coming at the same time as the Russian chemical attack.

  5. 5.

    smintheus

    March 15, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    Treason with Russia must have polled badly in PA-18.

  6. 6.

    Kay

    March 15, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    @Baud:

    I think so too. I watched (1/2) of the Putin documentary on PBS. He values loyalty more than anything else, and he seems …vindictive.

    Should be interesting.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    “The administration is confronting and countering malign Russian cyber activity, including their attempted interference in U.S. elections, destructive cyberattacks, and intrusions targeting critical infrastructure,” said Treasury Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin.

    After over a year of calling it a hoax, a House report saying there is no there there, we finally get the smallest toe dipped into the waters of reality.

  8. 8.

    James E. Powell

    March 15, 2018 at 12:07 pm

    This move is for the Beltway Courtiers and the press/media in general. The new line is “Obama did nothing, Trump took action. Democrats have no one to blame but themselves.”

  9. 9.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:09 pm

    @James E. Powell: But I don’t Trump has himself issued a statement or even a tweet yet. It’s his “people” doing everything so far.

  10. 10.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 15, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    @Kay:

    Well, they almost had to, right?

    No. They are free to declare that it’s raining when it’s sunny if they want, and indeed have. There is nothing that compels the Trump administration to do this. So… why did they? My guess is factional disputes within the White House. We have been told they’re all at each other’s throats, after all.

  11. 11.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:12 pm

    @Kay: And then actually implementing the various sanctions. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this announcement is all we ever hear of. As you say, when it’s all lies, it’s hard to figure out what’s actually happening and what isn’t.

  12. 12.

    Yarrow

    March 15, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    These sanctions will not save Trump, his family, his administration officials, and various elected traitors, mostly GOP, from what is coming. Tick tock, motherfuckers.

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    Ahhh, the weasel word has been identified:
    “Mnuchin said that his department intends to impose additional sanctions to hold Russian officials and oligarchs “accountable for their destabilizing activities by severing their access to the U.S. financial system.”

  14. 14.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:15 pm

    And also, btw, what about the nerve gas business? Hmm?

  15. 15.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:15 pm

    @MattF:
    @Corner Stone:

    If it were that easy to lie about sanctions, then the Trump people would have said they were imposing sanctions as Congress directed and then not done it. I agree that the “intend to” language is weaselly, however, so we’ll have to see if they are ever implemented.

  16. 16.

    Kay

    March 15, 2018 at 12:16 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I disagree. The UK changes the political calculus. They can’t run around screaming about fake news and waving their hands in the air with that. It makes it real. They were attacked and ordinary people were put at risk.

    It always had the capacity to change from a media/trump narrative that was abstract to something much more understandable to the average person and Trump never controlled that. It’s much bigger than him.

  17. 17.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 15, 2018 at 12:17 pm

    @Kay:

    They can’t run around screaming about fake news and waving their hands in the air with that.

    I don’t see anything stopping them. They’ve never cared about obvious lies before.

  18. 18.

    Jake the antisoshul soshulist

    March 15, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    @Kay:
    Sounds like why he and Trump are so tight.

  19. 19.

    Jeffro

    March 15, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    Part of me is wondering whether we might have finally, covertly, turned a corner in terms of being able to protect our cyber-infrastructure (and regular infrastructure, for that matter) after all the Russian hacking that has been going on. They have been hacking into our power grid and all of its related computers/networks for some time…

    Vox

    Wired

    …and perhaps now we have pushed them out/shored up our defenses enough that we can start to respond more strongly. I just have the sense that some good people, somewhere (other than Mueller) have been working to buy the country the time we need to avoid something truly devastating. Time will tell.

  20. 20.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:20 pm

    @Kay: You mean ‘In Real Life’. I actually tend to agree– I just hope that Democrats will push on this.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:20 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: They usually lie to instill hate or fear in their marks in order to control them. The UK attack represents an independent source of fear that they do not control, so they are probably less sure about their ability to get away with an outright lie, at least right now.

  22. 22.

    Jeffro

    March 15, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    @Kay: Agreed. The use of nerve agents on foreign soil is not only well beyond the pale, it’s not able to be ignored like a convenient “accident” or even a shooting.

  23. 23.

    Kay

    March 15, 2018 at 12:22 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They’re not though. They’re not insisting the UK attack was fake news. They’re not in control of this. They never were. It always had the capacity to spin out of their efforts to discredit it. The UK has their own leaders and their own objectives and their own national interest. They had no choice but to capitulate. Now they’ll work as hard as they can to scrub their former position and create a different history because Team Trump was on the wrong side of this and it’s bigger than them.

  24. 24.

    Kay

    March 15, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Not just “foreign soil”. Foreign soil most people understand as on our side. That’s not nice but is is reality. The UK has a special place. It’s familiar in a way other places are not.

  25. 25.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    @Jeffro:

    it’s not able to be ignored like a convenient “accident” or even a shooting.

    Clearly Seth Rich was doing the nerve poisoning while Hillary did the RICO.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    @Kay: True. No one would care if Putin poisoned people in Azerbaijan.

    ETA: Also, I think the type of weapon used here adds to the sense of terror.

  27. 27.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    @Kay: Yes they are powerful but not fully in charge. We have a small window of opportunity here.

  28. 28.

    Jeffro

    March 15, 2018 at 12:29 pm

    @Kay: Excuse me. Let’s trade ‘on foreign soil’ for ‘on the ground inside one of our closest NATO allies’.

  29. 29.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    @Jeffro:Home of BJ favorites, the British Royal family.

  30. 30.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    I can not express how happy I am to see the scammer charlatan Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos finally getting a little of what’s coming to her. I know it’s been mentioned here before, but every single time I see the headline about her being charged for massive fraud I just get a little happy again.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:31 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Can you imagine if Harry and Meghan had been in the vicinity of the attack?

  32. 32.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 15, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    @Baud:

    They usually lie to instill hate or fear in their marks in order to control them.

    No, they just lie, indiscriminately. Sometimes they lie to promote hate. Sometimes they lie to cover up their mistakes. Sometimes they lie to make Trump feel better. Sometimes they lie for no apparent reason other than they just like to lie.

    @Kay:

    They’re not insisting the UK attack was fake news. They’re not in control of this.

    They were never in control of what other people think. Their lies were totally transparent from the start, about stupid shit anyone could see at a glance. It’s never stopped them. Whatever reason they’re acknowledging it this time, it’s not because they were driven into a corner by the truth. The Trump Administration has never felt that pressure.

  33. 33.

    japa21

    March 15, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    “The administration is confronting and countering malign Russian cyber activity, including their attempted interference in U.S. elections, destructive cyberattacks, and intrusions targeting critical infrastructure,” said Treasury Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin.

    Note the bolded word. Still not ready to admit they actually did interfere.

  34. 34.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 15, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Tick tock, motherfuckers.

    Thank you, Yarrow. Needed my fix.

  35. 35.

    Yarrow

    March 15, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    @Kay:

    I disagree. The UK changes the political calculus. They can’t run around screaming about fake news and waving their hands in the air with that. It makes it real. They were attacked and ordinary people were put at risk.

    It’s not like this hasn’t happened before. They didn’t do much that had a lot of impact when Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium. Two police officers tested positive for it that time. Others were also exposed.

    There is so much Russian money in the UK, especially in London, that they could affect their economy if they do too much. It will be interesting to see how May handles this issue going forward.

  36. 36.

    Lapassionara

    March 15, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    @Corner Stone: Yes. Ozark was noting how easy it is to get away with lying in the US, but it is not nice to lie to investors.

  37. 37.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    @Baud: Wall to wall cable news coverage.

  38. 38.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    @japa21: That’s why I said “smallest toe” dipped in to reality. But just the outright admission that there is *something* there is a start. Better than screaming hoax all the time and fantasizing about a 400 pound hacker in a basement.

  39. 39.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    March 15, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    We will need a REAL American(tm) Thought Leader well verses in NOT Fake Newspeak to explain how the Republicans can find no evidence on Russian interference one day, while at the same time sanctioning the Russia for interfering the next. This is like the Marx Brothers do 1984.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:36 pm

    @Yarrow: Fear is elevated now because people are more aware of what Russia has been doing to disrupt Western Democracy.

    FWIW, most of the news I’ve come across (not a lot) suggests that the Brits are ok with what May has done so far.

  41. 41.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    @japa21: I guess Mnuchin is now on the shit list. Where is the 400-pound Ukrainian? It’s hard, even for the Trumpites, to keep up.

  42. 42.

    Lapassionara

    March 15, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    BTW, there is an anti- Claire McCaskill ad at the top of the page. I find that ironical, given the target audience. Does anyone else see it? Or is it just for jackals in MO?

  43. 43.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 15, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    @Baud:

    Can you imagine if Harry and Meghan had been in the vicinity of the attack?

    Well, if they keep refusing to invite Trump to the wedding. . . .

  44. 44.

    ET

    March 15, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    Here’s a question, how many of the Republicans on the Nunes committee (and that is what it was not a House committee) actually believed that memo? Didn’t one of them sort of start walking it back a bit the day it was released?

  45. 45.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    @Baud: Apparently the Labour Party is somewhat split on the question. In the Corbyn vs. everyone else sense…

  46. 46.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m sure they’d rather die by nerve agent than invite Trump to the wedding.

  47. 47.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    @Baud: I am sure that social climber would love to be invited.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    @MattF: I learned that this morning. Fascinating. Apparently, in Parliament, some Labour members stood up and said, “Um… we’re not, you know, like, with him.”

  49. 49.

    Yarrow

    March 15, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    @Baud: I have not yet checked in with my contacts in the UK to see what they are thinking over there. I know people on various sides of the political spectrum there so it’ll be interesting to see what their takes are.

    Russian money in the UK is one of those things that is known but not known, as in everyone knows it’s there but no one really knows how much is there. So much real estate is owned by Russians and is used to launder money. From those I know who worked in The City, the impression I have is that they’re swimming in Russian money. Strict sanctions could have a damaging effect on their economy, not to mention the upheaval that Brexit (a Putin goal) is causing.

  50. 50.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @Yarrow:

    There is so much Russian money in the UK, especially in London, that they could affect their economy if they do too much.

    I keep seeing this and am a little confused. What are Russian oligarchs going to do with their money if they pull it out? They sure as hell are not going to repatriate it to Mother Russia. They can’t put it all in Cyprus. They already own half of Manhattan and chunks of Florida. Think France or Germany or Japan will take it?
    Shit got real in the UK. IMO, beyond what the Kremlin anticipated. Now, they may not care and may even escalate beyond tit for tat PNGs. But what happens if they push far enough where removal from Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) becomes an actual possible alternative?

  51. 51.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I think that there is zero chance they will let Trump within a couple of thousand miles of the Queen.

  52. 52.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 15, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    @MattF: Jeremy Corbyn is a fellow traveler.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    So Trump actually said something out of his own piehole

    The attack, which left former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia critically ill in the hospital after being exposed, has drawn international condemnation and led British Prime Minister Theresa May to expel 23 Russian diplomats over the poisoning. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov called the accusations “unfounded” and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said they were “political theater.”

    “It looks like it,” Trump said of whether Russia was behind the attack. “I spoke with the Prime Minister and we are in deep discussions. A very sad situation.”

    He added: “It certainly looks like the Russians were behind it. Something that should never, ever happen, and we are taking it very seriously, as I think are many others.”

    CNN

  54. 54.

    Yarrow

    March 15, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Corner Stone: It could tank the UK housing market or at least the London market. As we know, tanking housing markets can have negative economic effects. Where they would put the money I don’t know. There always seem to be people who like to have money. The US doesn’t seem to care about Russian money. Trump properties have been laundering it for Russians for decades.

    Removal from SWIFT is definitely a possibility. I’ve had that on my radar for the last year. It would be a big problem for Putin if that happened.

  55. 55.

    Yarrow

    March 15, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Certainly is. Ties to the Soviets back in the day.

  56. 56.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 15, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @Yarrow: I’d bet a lot of Brits would be happy if London real estate prices moved down.

  57. 57.

    Ohio Mom

    March 15, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    For the first time today I have time to check what is going on in the rest of the world. Apparenty, Mueller still has a job. Now I can relax and read a few posts and threads.

  58. 58.

    PPCLI

    March 15, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    @Yarrow: And in the polonium case, there was absolutely no doubt who was responsible. The bunglers left a radioactive trail back to their hotel room, for example. We know exactly who did it, and where they are now. And Putin will not allow them to be extradited to face justice in the UK.

  59. 59.

    Washburn

    March 15, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    I assume this means that Trump is getting ready to replace Sessions and fire Mueller soon.

    “Whaddya mean we’re compromised by Russia – look here at these sanctions we imposed …”

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    March 15, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Seems simple enough to me: Trump & Co have simply made the calculation that continued denials and obfuscation won’t fly in this case, not when a beloved ally with whom millions of Americans feel a kinship is saying and doing something different.

  61. 61.

    PPCLI

    March 15, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Baud: Did anyone ask him “So are you now going to enforce the sanctions that Congress passed with overwhelming majorities and that you’ve been ignoring?”

  62. 62.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    March 15, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Washburn:
    He would have to fire Rosenstein and then a bunch of other people first. And Mueller has civil service protections on top of that.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:54 pm

    @Washburn: Maybe. But that theory suggests a level of preparation that has not been a hallmark of Trump to date.

  64. 64.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:54 pm

    @PPCLI: I didn’t watch the clip.

  65. 65.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    @PPCLI: Rumor is that the Russians were somewhat taken aback that Western intel agencies were able to identify the specific reactor complex in which the polonium was manufactured.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    @PPCLI:

    This is from Slate:

    n addition to those sanctions, the Trump administration has also finally made use of its sanctioning authority under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. Congress passed the bill, meant to crack down on Russia’s election meddling as well as its actions in Ukraine, over Trump’s objections last summer. The administration has dragged its feet on complying with the bill’s provisions so far and used a waiver in January to avoid issuing the new sanctions it entails. Treasury on Thursday sanctioned two Russian government agencies—the domestic security service, the FSB, and the main military intelligence service, the GRU—as well as six GRU officials under the sanctions act for their cyber activities. These entities are also unlikely to feel much impact since they, too, are already sanctioned for activities in Ukraine. (For what it’s worth, this hasn’t prevented the heads of these agencies from traveling to Washington.) Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin did say in his statement Thursday that more CAATSA sanctions could be coming.

  67. 67.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 15, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    He must be just incandescent with rage that the Obamas were invited and he wasn’t.

  68. 68.

    Mike in DC

    March 15, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    1. Cybersecurity –harden our elections, our political organizations, our public utlitities and our corporations.
    2. Sanctions –sanction the 300+ people who were supposed to be sanctioned by the bill passed last year.
    3. Spyhunting–work with our allies to find and root out Russian spies and covert assets in the US and Western countries
    4. Countermeasures–Act, overtly and covertly, against the interests of the Putin regime, wherever and whenever we can

  69. 69.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Where they would put the money I don’t know. There always seem to be people who like to have money.

    But there are only so many markets that are suitable. Democracies with the rule of law, where markets work, more or less. They can’t invest in Venezuela or some ME dictator. I don’t think Switzerland could absorb that could of inflow, and their RE market is already skewed so high I’m not sure it makes sense to try. Finland, Sweden, and Norway are likely too small and IMO would put the stinkeye on a flood of Russian money coming in. Not to say RU isn’t already active there, but not like this. IMO, the Kremlin is boxing the oligarchs in and I don’t think they are going to be too happy about where this may go.

  70. 70.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Worse, the Queen liked Michelle.

  71. 71.

    Shana

    March 15, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    @Corner Stone: Why is the Treasury Secretary the one saying this? Shouldn’t it be, I dunno, Homeland Security? Acting Secretary of State? Almost anyone else? Except maybe DeVos or Perry.

  72. 72.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    @Baud:

    This is good news, however we got here.

    Yeah, people thought that about the Russian sanctions too.

    Let’s see how vigorously Trump’s minions actually enforce their big bold promises against Russia first.

  73. 73.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    @Mike in DC:

    4. Countermeasures–Act, overtly and covertly, against the interests of the Putin regime, wherever and whenever we can

    Sounds like we have awoken a Cold War Warrior!

  74. 74.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    @TenguPhule: The Russian sanctions were and still are good. That we have to continue to fight to get them implemented does not make them bad.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    @Corner Stone: I propose a policy of containment. ;-)

  76. 76.

    Mnemosyne

    March 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    @Baud:

    (For what it’s worth, this hasn’t prevented the heads of these agencies from traveling to Washington.)

    It’s generally considered a bad idea to allow people who have sanctions against them to travel freely to the country that imposed the sanctions. But “bad idea” will be the epitaph of this administration.

  77. 77.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    @Kay:

    They can’t run around screaming about fake news and waving their hands in the air with that.

    Have you learned nothing after seeing them do exactly that for over a year?

  78. 78.

    Cacti

    March 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    @Baud:

    I learned that this morning. Fascinating. Apparently, in Parliament, some Labour members stood up and said, “Um… we’re not, you know, like, with him.”

    Red diaper Corbyn has since issued a revised statement, saying “evidence points towards Russia”.

    I don’t think a full-throated condemnation of Moskva is in his DNA.

  79. 79.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 1:09 pm

    @Shana: My understanding was the sanctions were largely economic in nature. If the sanctions also Persona Non Grata (PNG)’ed I guess the case could be made for Sec State to be discussing them. I’m not sure of the protocol and don’t remember who announced them when Obama did some in late 2016.

  80. 80.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    @Baud: We can not allow the UK domino to fall!

  81. 81.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @MattF: Wasn’t there a big “scandal” when Michelle O *touched* the Queen? Like that was a breach of protocol so bad she should be banned from ever re-entering the US.

  82. 82.

    Sloane Ranger

    March 15, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    @Baud: I watched the debate and Corbyn was in a minority of one. Every Labour speaker explicitly or implicitly separated themselves from his position. Corbyn has done himself no favours here and I am surprised and disappointed in him. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t believe Russia is behind the attack.

    People here are very quietly angry about the contempt Putin is showing to our country, it’s people and our guests. There is widespread support for what May has done so far and a willingness for further action if necessarily, whatever the cost.

  83. 83.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    @MattF:

    In the Corbyn vs. everyone else sense…

    To be fair, Corbyn is being attacked for essentially throwing parts of May’s own fucking speech against her and her party in a hostile media environment. May is blustering, but talk is cheap and the UK under the Conservative watch really has lost much of its capacity for effective retaliation against Russia.

    Would not surprise me if Putin factored in that a foreign threat would help boost the Conservatives and allow them to keep destroying the UK.

  84. 84.

    Amir Khalid

    March 15, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    @Shana:
    Tillerson remains Secretary of State through the end of this month. Then I presume the Deputy Secretary, or the ranking Deputy Secretary if there’s more than one, becomes Acting Secretary until a new Secretary is nominated and confirmed.

  85. 85.

    Jeffro

    March 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Yeah, people thought that about the Russian sanctions too.

    Let’s see how vigorously Trump’s minions actually enforce their big bold promises against Russia first.

    That’s a good point. Part of me thinks that Trumpov either wasn’t fully apprised of what would be in these sanctions, and/or only agreed to them in the short term in order to get the headlines that have followed. Most of America is catching on.

  86. 86.

    Ruckus

    March 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @Yarrow:
    This is why this has been announced.
    If they don’t say anything they look complicit. The bet is of course that nothing is/will be actually done. Because they are complicit.

  87. 87.

    dww44

    March 15, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    @Kay: as is Trump, vindictive, that is. But more of the petty, obvious, albeit cruel, sort of vindictiveness (Like the rumored action to fire McCabe before he is eligible for his pension.) Not on a par with what Putin is able to execute with impunity.

    If this has been addressed elsewhere, I apologize, but where is this apparent about face re Russia and sanctions from the WH coming from and who’s orchestrating it?

  88. 88.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    @Jeffro: He was probably apprised that his veto would be overridden. The vote was lopsided in favor of the sanctions.

  89. 89.

    MattF

    March 15, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    @TenguPhule: Corbyn’s got the instincts of a dissenting backbencher, and that includes the lack of internal ‘don’t go there’ sirens and flashing red lights. It’s a weakness.

  90. 90.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:

    Corbyn has done himself no favours here and I am surprised and disappointed in him. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t believe Russia is behind the attack.

    I suspect he’s gunshy with Blair flashbacks. Confrontation with foreign countries is not one of his strengths, but the UK isn’t exactly in a position of strength on the world stage at the moment either. And while its not popular, he did have a point that there are certain rules which the UK did oblige themselves to follow.

  91. 91.

    Ruckus

    March 15, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    They lie because lying is what they do. They don’t need a reason, it’s in their DNA.

  92. 92.

    Chyron HR

    March 15, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:

    Corbyn has done himself no favours here and I am surprised and disappointed in him.

    What part of “He’s the British Bernie” was confusing you?

  93. 93.

    Mike in DC

    March 15, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @Sloane Ranger: I would say that “the Left ™” needs to revisit the concept of reflexively supporting non-Western actors as a “counterbalance” to perceived Western hegemony (or somesuch). Since we live in a “multipolar” world now, it should be possible to pivot to a more objective perspective and freely criticize the actions of all state actors on the international stage.

  94. 94.

    Cacti

    March 15, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    Has The Nation printed its inevitable apologist claptrap from Stephen Cohen about how the assassinations were actually NATO’s fault?

  95. 95.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @MattF:

    It’s a weakness.

    Yet in hindsight he was very much right about dissenting from New Labor’s Iraq policy, among others.

    He’s not strong on confrontation, but I don’t question his integrity. The hillary clintonizing of him by the media is absurd.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    OT: The mainstream media has really decided to go all in in support of the GOP’s demonization of Pelosi today.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    @Cacti: I am sure he will be on the Snooze Hour tonight as the Russia “expert”.

  98. 98.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    @Chyron HR:

    What part of “He’s the British Bernie” was confusing you?

    Except he’s not.

  99. 99.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Baud:

    The mainstream media has really decided to go all in in support of the GOP’s demonization of Pelosi today.

    You mean more then usual?

  100. 100.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Baud: Did you not see Jon Stewart’s TDS interview. What is so different about today?

  101. 101.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    @TenguPhule: I barely understand our politics and media, so I’m not going to tackle the British. But if Labour members were distancing themselves from him in Parliament, there’s no way to positively spin that.

  102. 102.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    @schrodingers_cat:

    The media is leapfrogging off of Lamb’s victory to do it today. The attacks are usually more scattershot.

  103. 103.

    Cacti

    March 15, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Baud:

    The mainstream media has really decided to go all in in support of the GOP’s demonization of Pelosi today.

    The media doesn’t like a strong Democratic woman leader?

    Must be a day ending in y.

  104. 104.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @Baud:

    The Russian sanctions were and still are good. That we have to continue to fight to get them implemented does not make them bad.

    My point was that people thought “Oh, we’re finally making them do something against Russia!”

    and it turned out that it was effectively just being ignored by the people who were supposed to enforce it.

    Fool you once…shame on them.

  105. 105.

    But her emails!!!

    March 15, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @Baud:

    The mainstream media has really decided to go all in in support of the GOP’s demonization of Pelosi today.

    Well, it was her turn. The thing with Hillary saying that the Trump campaign was looking backwards didn’t make as much of a splash as they thought. What bit of truth did Pelosi speak that has caused our media to turn their wet noodles against her?

  106. 106.

    Cacti

    March 15, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    He’s not strong on confrontation, but I don’t question his integrity

    I question the integrity of anyone who has been a repeated guest on Russia Today, and recommends it as a credible news source.

  107. 107.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @Baud:

    But if Labour members were distancing themselves from him in Parliament, there’s no way to positively spin that.

    The Labors MPs in Parliment have been doing that since he was elected leader. The actual members of the party still support him. The MPs tend to be weathervanes.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @TenguPhule: It was something against Russia. And it can be a foundation for more things against Russia, unless we give up and say nothing works.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    @TenguPhule: I’m not sure how Labour ever gets to a majority without MPs, but whatev. Thankfully, following U.S. politics keeps me pretty busy.

  110. 110.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 15, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    @Baud: Without Pelosi, the Dems would win 500 seats in the House!

  111. 111.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:39 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: True. (and heh). But they wouldn’t get anything done because no one else can herd cats.

  112. 112.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    @Baud:

    I’m not sure how Labour ever gets to a majority without MPs, but whatev.

    Nancy Pelosi would run away screaming if offered the job of coordinating the UK Labour MPs in Parliment.

    They’re that bad.

  113. 113.

    Sloane Ranger

    March 15, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    @TenguPhule: And May would have consulted the Government’s experts on international law to ensure that all boxes were ticked before going to Parliament.

    @Mike in DC: You may have a point here. Trots are always eager to somehow find a way to blame the West or the aftermath of Imperialism for others bad actions.

  114. 114.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    @Baud: The corrupt party establishment is stopping the working class Messiah, that refrain sounds awfully familiar.

  115. 115.

    Peale

    March 15, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    @Yarrow: At some point, though, that Russian Money needs to be pushed back into Russia where it belongs. Yeah, there’s nothing to invest in there and the economy sucks, but they are the fuckin oligarchs. Go find something to do with your money that isn’t a townhouse in Belgravia.

  116. 116.

    Chyron HR

    March 15, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    If Our Revolution says he is, that’s good enough for me.

  117. 117.

    SFAW

    March 15, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @Cacti:

    The media doesn’t like a strong Democratic woman leader?

    Must be a day ending in y.

    It’s not “official” until Joan “Always Clueless” Vennochi adds her voice to the trashing.

    Thanks, Glob!!

  118. 118.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @Yarrow: I thought we were against the Hillary Clinton style demonization?

  119. 119.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:

    And May would have consulted the Government’s experts on international law to ensure that all boxes were ticked before going to Parliament.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Her record on that so far is….poor.

  120. 120.

    Mike in DC

    March 15, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    @Sloane Ranger: It’s ironic, because Putin’s aspiration is for Russia to be recognized and respected as a great power. But great powers have agency and the “victim” label ill befits a great power.

  121. 121.

    Calouste

    March 15, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    @MattF: Cornyn is bought and paid for by Putin. He even got the three year extended warranty.

  122. 122.

    Peale

    March 15, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @Baud: Yep. The GOP would like nothing more than the election this fall to be about Nancy Pelosi, rather than its failures even though it controls all three branches of government and is getting largely what it wants. The whole point of this “Trump is a Democrat” shit being pushed today is probably to convince our dumb voters (and yeah, I said it. We are dumb) that Nancy and Trump are running Washington. Vote for me and we’ll get those college kids to shut up and stop the Trump-Pelosi agenda. Will it work? Who knows.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: From what little I know, it seems like the British political party system is much different than ours. I hesitate to draw parallels.

  124. 124.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: “Fund the NHS” is pretty simple and understandable.

    Sorry, but this whole mean girling of Corbyn just strikes me as uncomfortably similiar to what happened to Hillary Clinton and her “Corrupt Corporate Cash!”

  125. 125.

    TenguPhule

    March 15, 2018 at 1:53 pm

    @Calouste: And yet all the Russian money seems to be drawn to Conservative party coffers. Funny that.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    @Peale: Well, it’s a good sign that it didn’t work on Tuesday, and that was not a Pelosi friendly area.

    The news also reported that Heidi Heitkamp recently put down Hillary on a radio show recently. This Hillary admirer says — do what you need to win reelection in a very red, Trumpian state. Feel free to throw Baud! under the bus if it helps. I’m confident Hillary would agree.

  127. 127.

    Mary G

    March 15, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Well, Bobby Three Sticks is getting right up in somebody’s grill. He has subpoenaed the Trump Organization directly. No link because it’s off Maggie FTFNYT’s twitter.

    @Baud: Heitkamp voted no on the tax cut bill and no on repealing the ACA. That makes her a precious asset in my book.

  128. 128.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    @Mary G: Nice.

  129. 129.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    @Baud: I would only disagree slightly. Just like I don’t think Pelosi gives AF when someone says they will not vote for her, I think HRC is thick skinned and pragmatic about people doing what they have to. However, it does matter, at least to me, what device they use to put down on Hillary. If it’s straight crit, then have at it. If it’s wallowing in the Crooked Hillary miasma then I have to call bullshit. Did not see or hear the clip so don’t know what she said about HRC.

  130. 130.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    @Mary G: And she’ll vote for Schumer over McConnell. A very precious asset.

  131. 131.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    @Calouste:

    Cornyn is bought and paid for by Putin.

    Then maybe we can finally take him out next time his TX Senate seat is up for election!

  132. 132.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    @Corner Stone: I only saw the reporting. Someone asked her when Hillary would go away, and she responded “Not soon enough.” So a put down, but not a pizza-gate like lie. Caveat: I didn’t see the context, so I can’t say what else Heidi might have said to mitigate the put down.

  133. 133.

    BruceFromOhio

    March 15, 2018 at 2:05 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    After over a year of calling it a hoax, a House report saying there is no there there, we finally get the smallest toe dipped into the waters of reality.

    Easy there, citizen, let’s not carried away in the moment. Your partisan viewpoint may be coloring your judgement.

    @James E. Powell:

    This move is for the Beltway Courtiers and the press/media in general. The new line is “Obama did nothing, Trump took action. Democrats have no one to blame but themselves.”

    Now that’s more like it. Fresh content for the puke funnel, and new commands for the drones. Tomorrow’s poo piles, er, NY Times editorials are already written.

  134. 134.

    Mary G

    March 15, 2018 at 2:05 pm

    @Baud: Yup, and Sean Trende from RCP, who’s as red as they come, but believes in math, has said it’s not out of the question that the Democrats take the Senate in November. Apparently the loon Chris McDaniel has changed which Mississippi seat he’s running for and the Democrat nominee is somebody named Espy who’s another Doug Jones/Heitkamp type.

  135. 135.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    March 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm

    So has Wittes got his cannon out today?

    Mueller Subpoenas Trump Organization, Demanding Documents About Russia

    Has Meuller signed Jeff Sessions walking papers?

  136. 136.

    Peale

    March 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm

    @Baud: Well its a nice spin on their attempt to avoid their own 2010 disaster. Yeah, the Yellow Dogs all told Obama to stay away from him and were wiped out. In this case, they’ll try to get Trump to campaign on behalf of the Democrat hoping that’ll confuse enough voters. Obama should have thought about doing that in 2010 – going to Texas and campaining for Ted Cruz might have saved us a lot of headaches.

  137. 137.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:07 pm

    @Mary G: You mean MAGA Haberhack of the Vichy Times, that prints all the garbage there is to print?

  138. 138.

    Corner Stone

    March 15, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @Baud: Heitkamp on when Hillary Clinton will go away: ‘Not soon enough’
    Link to CNN recap of interview. I think that’s a pretty fair statement because it plays into the idea that HRC ignored and/or insulted people like the ones Heitkamp needs to vote for her. Pretty straightforward, even though I personally disagree with the sentiment.

  139. 139.

    Washburn

    March 15, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @Baud:

    Agree generally but if there’s one thing Trump has, it’s a well honed instinct for survival. Mueller has signalled that he’s looking directly into the Trump Crime Syndicate as the NYT reports today:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/trump-organization-subpoena-mueller-russia.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @Mary G: I am so old that I remember DougJ writing sarcastic posts about Trende when he was a media shill for the RWNJ news complex. Is this person believable now?

  141. 141.

    Washburn

    March 15, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Ooops – missed your comment.

    I think the writing is on the wall here.

    Baud is right that Trump is, um, not what you would call a strategic thinker but 1) he knows he has committed financial crimes, 2) he learned recently that Mueller was specifically looking into Trump companies and will find those crimes so, 3) Mueller has to go.

  142. 142.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @Baud: BTW you are responding to ARBG’s new avatar

  143. 143.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @Corner Stone: Thanks for the link. Hillary is correct, of course, but at least it gives these red state Dems an opportunity to show their “independence.”

  144. 144.

    Matt McIrvin

    March 15, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Well, Trende thought, contrary to most of us, that a Republican could win in 2016 by doubling down on racial/cultural animus and bringing out “missing white people”, and he seems to have been right. So maybe he has a handle on these things.

  145. 145.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:13 pm

    @Baud: Did you see the garbage, Reihan Salam wrote about HRC in the Atlantic? He had the chutzpah to blame her for trickle down econ.

  146. 146.

    Baud

    March 15, 2018 at 2:14 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I posted about that here. It was followed by a garbage article in the Atlantic by Adam Serwer. That publication is really going downhill.

  147. 147.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:He was spinning cotton candy for Romney in 2012. I haven’t actually seen his recent analysis, I just remembered his history.

  148. 148.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 15, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    @Baud: They went down when they hosted the British born gasbag Sully.

  149. 149.

    Tenar Arha

    March 15, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    Considering that everyone generally loves their mother, the reason that everyone hates the Democratic Party as the “Mom” party, while characterizing the Republicans as the “Dad” party has always confused me.

    But, when you think about it, Mom’s are fine with soothing fables, but then they’re like get out of bed, eat your vegetables, do your homework, or get your chores done before you watch any tv. Dad’s are the ones who goof off with you, read you bedtime stories with the voices instead of without, and in most families the one you go to to get something for yourself because they’re more likely to say yes. Basically Dad’s the patsy, and Mom’s the harda** in lots of families. & This explains so much….

  150. 150.

    mozzerb

    March 15, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    @MattF: Exactly. One of those “shut UP you prat” moments. This is not the time.

    I’m not sure what effective measures the UK can actually take, unfortunately (expelling diplomats is always more of a “seen to be doing something” gesture than anything else). I’d like to see something in the way of asset-seizing, which might actually get the point across.

    Oh, and fuck Putin.

  151. 151.

    rikyrah

    March 15, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    Mueller Subpoenas Trump Organization, Demanding Documents About Russia

    WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has subpoenaed the Trump Organization to turn over documents, including some related to Russia, according to two people briefed on the matter. The order is the first known time that the special counsel demanded documents directly related to President Trump’s businesses, bringing the investigation closer to the president.

    The breadth of the subpoena was not clear, nor was it clear why Mr. Mueller issued it instead of simply asking for the documents from the company, an umbrella organization that oversees Mr. Trump’s business ventures. In the subpoena, delivered in recent weeks, Mr. Mueller ordered the Trump Organization to hand over all documents related to Russia and other topics he is investigating, the people said.

    The subpoena is the latest indication that the investigation, which Mr. Trump’s lawyers once regularly assured him would be completed by now, will drag on for at least several more months. Word of the subpoena comes as Mr. Mueller appears to be broadening his investigation to examine the role foreign money may have played in funding Mr. Trump’s political activities. In recent weeks, Mr. Mueller’s investigators have questioned witnesses, including an adviser to the United Arab Emirates, about the flow of Emirati money into the United States.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mueller-subpoenas-trump-organization-demanding-documents-about-russia/ar-BBKgwn3?li=BBnb7Kz

  152. 152.

    NMgal

    March 15, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:
    KEEP CALM
    and
    COUNTERATTACK
    ?

  153. 153.

    joel hanes

    March 15, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    @Lapassionara:

    ad at the top of the page

    thanks for the reminder that, because I use an ad blocker and noscript,
    I need to pay Cole periodically for the privilege

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