Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

He really is that stupid.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

People are weird.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

You are here: Home / Sweet Jesus Everything is a Mess

Sweet Jesus Everything is a Mess

by | 123 Comments

This post is in: 

I’ve taken about 4-5 days without really blogging much or reading too much of the news, and maybe about 2 days without tweeting THAT much, and that’s just about as unplugged as I can get (mind you, I was playing the hell out of Divinity: Original Sin 2). I’ve been doing other things, went to the dentist, stuff around the house.

So tonight I spent an hour doing a deep dive into the news, and holy fuck is everything a mess. I was wondering if when you don’t take a break, you get desensitized to the crazy, or if being in the thick of it makes you overreact and you think things are worse than they are.

I am afraid to report it’s the former. Literally every headline of every newspaper is so fucking crazy as to be unimaginable ten years ago. Hell, two years ago. Shit is fucking insane and not normal, and you need to tell yourself that every fucking day.

Reader Interactions

123Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    Speaking of clouds, they keep promising me thunderstorms but then always fail to deliver.

  2. 2.

    terraformer

    Boy, ain’t that the truth. I thought shit was crazy during the BushCo years, but apparently that was just a warm-up exercise. This is a whole other level.

  3. 3.

    Feebog

    So, Rachel Maddox reporting on an alert from Homeland Security that Russian hackers have successfully infiltrated operational computers in our Nuclear power plants. Holy cats.

  4. 4.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Feebog:
    WTF? Vlad isn’t going to be satisfied until he gets his world war. Fuck him to hell.

  6. 6.

    PhoenixRising

    I’ve been taking 3 day weekends in the woods since November 2016 and every damn time I get home…shitshow. It’s better to reset to normalcy so someone can be the Cassandra yelling about what normal is.

  7. 7.

    SiubhanDuinne

    We need to find that point of balance. Yes, you are right, this is NOT NORMAL IN ANY WAY and we must never lose sight of that. At the same time, we must be vigilant against giving in to despair.

    It is not easy but it is doable. Go hang out with Steve and the dogs for a while. They’re assholes but still comforting, so do it.

  10. 10.

    Nyrobbin

    @Feebog:
    Yeah somebody might want to get on that ?

    Can we get these traitors out of office and declare (virtual) war with Russia, who’s apparently declared war on us? Pretty please?

  12. 12.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Steve Clemons @ SCClemons
    McMaster out. It’s a loss for the country. And his successor could be John Bolton. If so expect civil war w/Mattis. And expect Fiona Hill and Nadia Schadlow, both great talents, to depart. Expect battles also w/Tom Bossert.

    I haven’t gotten the NYT alert yet, which is usually pretty quick, but Clemons is a sober dude

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/trump-decides-to-remove-national-security-adviser-and-others-may…

    President Trump has decided to remove H.R. McMaster as his national security adviser and is actively discussing potential replacements, according to five people with knowledge of the plans, preparing to deliver yet another jolt to the senior ranks of his administration.

    Trump is now comfortable with ousting McMaster, with whom he never personally gelled, but is willing to take time executing the move because he wants to ensure both that the three-star Army general is not humiliated and that there is a strong successor lined up, these people said.

    The turbulence is part of a broader potential shake-up under consideration by Trump that is likely to include senior officials at the White House, where staffers are gripped by fear and un­certainty as they await the next move from an impulsive president who enjoys stoking conflict.

    For all of the evident disorder, Trump feels emboldened, advisers said — buoyed by what he views as triumphant decisions last week to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum and to agree to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un. The president is enjoying the process of assessing his team and making changes, tightening his inner circle to those he considers survivors and who respect his unconventional style, one senior White House official said.

    More at the link.

  16. 16.

    chris

    @Feebog: This isn’t new news and that says a lot about just how much of a mess everything is. Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition comes to mind.

    Sarah Kendzior:

    On June 13, 2017, Attorney General Jeff Sessions testified to the Senate Intelligence committee about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. After fielding hours of questions about his knowledge of the plot, Sessions was greeted by an abrupt change in topic from Senator John McCain. “Quietly, the Kremlin has been trying to map the United States telecommunications infrastructure,” McCain announced, and described a series of alarming moves, including Russian spies monitoring the fiber optic network in Kansas and Russia’s creation of “a cyber weapon that can disrupt the United States power grids and telecommunications infrastructure.”Link.

  18. 18.

    Mary G

    McMaster might not be out after all:

    We had one Admin Official tell @finnygo that @realDonaldTrump had decided to replace McMaster. 10 mins later, a highly placed Admin Official told me that McMaster isn’t going anywhere #tilt-a-whirl— John Roberts (@johnrobertsFox) March 16, 2018

    My theory is that McMaster and Mattis and ??? have that pact that if one goes, they all go, and Twitler was testing to see if they’d really do it, because he still likes Mattis, and Mattis told him “go ahead, make my day.”

  19. 19.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The president is enjoying the process of assessing his team and making changes, tightening his inner circle to those he considers survivors and who respect his unconventional stylekiss his ass unquestioningly and have zero credibility outside the WH, one senior White House official said.

  20. 20.

    Amir Khalid

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It’s occurred to me that what Putin’s badly depleted Russia lacks is the capability for a WWII-scale shooting war. He is fighting a world war, with the goal of domination, but stealthily (for the most part) and using the capabilities he does have.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    @B.B.A.: He’s got one air craft carrier. Its in dry dock until 2022. Professionally, I think it should be taken out as part of the response to the wet work in Britain last week.

  23. 23.

    Gin & Tonic

    @chris: I don’t have the details at hand, and it’s late, but years ago there was some computer science grad student at, maybe, George Mason (?) who was mapping the then-current US fiber infrastructure. I’m not even sure we had DHS yet, but if I recall this correctly, the Feds basically classified his dissertation before he finished it. If I wasn’t so lazy right now I’d research the history of this.

  28. 28.

    Chet Murthy

    Whenever I get down, I go look at the timelines of those Parkland youth leaders. Those folks are gonna change the world, and it’s a joy to watch them gearing up for it.

    ETA: which doesn’t change that some of us might due, and the damage being done to our Republic is horrific. But at least, the news is not all awful.

  29. 29.

    Fizzle

    Yeah, we are well off into Shit Is Fucked Up And Bullshit territory.

    (How long has it been since we were talking about Peak Wingnut? Oh, what innocent times those were.)

    And hearing from a particular family member who sees absolutely nothing wrong with anything going on is… incredibly bizarre and frightening.

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    This woman has no self-respect.

    Just spoke to @POTUS and Gen. H.R. McMaster – contrary to reports they have a good working relationship and there are no changes at the NSC.— Sarah Sanders (@PressSec) March 16, 2018

    Everyone in her mentions is saying she said the same thing about Tillerson, and he’s off. I don’t follow her or listen, since her information is bullshit.

  33. 33.

    Ruckus

    Problem is that if you don’t pay some reasonable attention and everyone else is doing the same, the Mount Everest level of shit that is being produced every day by this reign of stupidity and evil becomes the norm and we are left with nothing to compare or remember. It’s why we are here in the first place, the media shrieking crisis and doom if we didn’t make the rich richer and fuck everyone else and blaming it all on “the others” became the norm, which allowed drumpf to even contemplate running. Yes the republican field was fucking pathetic and not one of them would have made an even minimally acceptable president, but this turd? And that’s aside from the russian meddling. So many people don’t normally pay attention in this country because most are too busy trying to survive rather than live that it becomes easy to blame the thing you hear the most is the problem. We have to pay attention and continually yell as loud as possible that what is wrong is conservatism. Enough people might actually listen right now.

  34. 34.

    Jeffro

    @Matt McIrvin:

    [Putin] can fight the 45-minute kind of world war at any moment.

    Indeed.

    When you can shut down your adversary’s entire power grid, telecommunications infrastructure, or god forbid, ESPN at the drop of a hat…who needs tanks and aircraft carriers?

    Better still, if you can get them fighting amongst themselves to the degree that they’re paralyzed…and/or willing to bankrupt themselves with tax cuts and silly spending (like on a border wall or massively increased, yet useless, military spending)…

  35. 35.

    chris

    @Gin & Tonic: Before DHS makes it 2002 or earlier. Scary to think what can be accomplished now that the ‘net and its infrastructure are many orders of magnitude larger.

  37. 37.

    lamh36

    @JohnFugelsang
    Following Following @JohnFugelsang
    More
    I refuse to joke about Vanessa Trump bc it’s NEVER funny when a couple files for an uncontested quick divorce, one where assets can be swiftly transferred, on the same day an independent special counsel subpoenas their family business. People, this could happen to you someday.

    7:59 PM – 15 Mar 2018

    twitter.com/JohnFugelsang/status/974450055330574337

  38. 38.

    NotMax

    May as well say it again.

    This woebegone administration includes fewer norms than the bar in Cheers.

  42. 42.

    MoCA Ace

    Outrage fatigue is a real thing… and it definitely desensitizes you to the crazy. Last fall I went camping for four days with no news and on returning It was positively disorienting, and if you remember all the way back to last fall the shitshow was just revving up.

    Christ it seems like this has been going on forever.

  45. 45.

    NotMax

    @Jeffro

    China was previously named as the country poking into the power grid.

    Can’t tell the hackers without a program.

  47. 47.

    Walker

    Divinity is awesome until Arx. The end of the story falls a bit flat. It is almost as if they really should have ended at the Nameless Isle.

  48. 48.

    Jeffro

    @NotMax: named by who? Everything I’ve read pointed towards ‘Sandworm’ and similar groups, operating out of Russia.

  49. 49.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:
    I posted the other day that Vlad is fighting a world war. He is using up to date methodology rather than big ships and lots of air planes. First because he doesn’t have big ships and lots of air planes. Second because fighting this war rather than refighting WWII also stands make him richer rather than just more powerful.

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    @MoCA Ace: At the end of January, I think one of the CNN anchors did a segment on everything shitty/stupid/unacceptable that had happened just. in. the. month. of. January. It was unbelievable.

    One almost has to wonder if most Americans’ short attention spans/interest in politics haven’t turned in to our nation’s most treasured asset at this point.

  52. 52.

    Sab

    Totally off topic. I have an autistic grandchild age four. Swim lessons going horribly, mostly because bitchy head instructor in her seventies has decided to make my mixed-race stubborn (of course she is, that’s part of autism) grand-daughter an example. Damn near drowned the kid (age four) by dropping her into the deep end.

    This goes against EVERYTHING I ever learned about how to
    learn how to swim.

    If Ohio Mom checks in sometime please let her know we would love advice.

  57. 57.

    Mandalay

    Since this is an old-man-yells-at-clouds thread, here is a deeply moving tribute on the death of Steven Hawking:

    Okay, the Big Bang. There was this whatever-size — call it a golf ball-, tennis ball-size of matter that banged and we’re all here. Where was it? Where was this glob of matter that banged that created the universe? Where was it? No, no, no. You can’t say, “It was in the void.” You can’t say it was in another dimension, parallel or otherwise, astral plane.

    It had to be somewhere. Where was it? What was around it? Could you see it? Could somebody see this golf-ball-size bit of energy if they were not part of that? Could you be somewhere and see it?

    Could you be somewhere and witness this Big Bang instead of being a part of it? If so, where were you? Well, since nobody could see it, how the hell do they know it really happened?

    But I’m not supposed to ask that.

    He stands alone. You’d think it would be absolutely impossible to discuss the death of Stephen Hawking and paint yourself as a victim, but Limbaugh pulled it off.

  58. 58.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Sab: As someone who used to be a swim instructor, and who has taught college students on the spectrum, I’d highly recommend finding a new swimming instructors. Nearly drowning a student, regardless of age or developmental ability, to make a point is unacceptable. I’d also report the instructor.

  59. 59.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Is this a week’s delay? fact-checking and lawyering?

    The Anon Journal@ TheAnonJournal
    BREAKING NEWS: 60 Minutes to air StormyDaniels interview on March 25th.

  62. 62.

    Ruckus

    @Sab:
    Well a purely not available option would be to hold that woman by her ankles and immerse her in the deep end, preferably with her hands tied behind her back and see how she likes it.
    An option that seems proper to me is to report her to any authority above her and to remove your child from ever being under her care. A better option than violence and much more legally safe if not nearly as satisfying.

  63. 63.

    Mary G

    Have we heard anything more about the Russian submarines snooping the data cables under the Atlantic Ocean? Losing those with Twitler in control would be a nightmare.

  64. 64.

    Adam L Silverman

    Too bad, so sad!
    politico.com/story/2018/03/15/house-intelligence-republicans-russia-probe-465805

    House Republicans are privately venting that they’ve fumbled the release of their own Russia probe report.

    The blaring headline the GOP wanted from this week’s rollout was clear: After a year of searching, Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee found no evidence that President Donald Trump or his associates aided Moscow’s scheme to interfere in the 2016 election but that the nation must still prepare for another assault from the Kremlin.

    Instead, much of the focus has been on lawmakers’ startling conclusion that the nation’s intelligence agencies botched their analysis when they determined Russia wanted Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton.

    The finding once again pitted the committee’s Republicans against the leaders of the intelligence community and led to a frenzy of news coverage that put members on the defensive. And rather than seizing an opportunity to highlight the Russian threat and undermine lingering questions about the Trump campaign’s Russian contacts, Republicans faced a political headache of their own making.

    The muddled messaging was the subject of a closed-door meeting of committee Republicans on Wednesday. According to three sources briefed on the discussion, a frustrated Rep. Mike Turner (R-Ohio) raised pointed concerns about why critiquing intelligence agencies was even mentioned at Monday’s rollout. The finding, after all, won’t be included in the committee’s official Russia report — it will be the subject of a second report issued later in the spring. But the decision to link it to the committee’s Russia findings scrambled the release.

  70. 70.

    Sab

    @Adam L Silverman: She’s on SSI so they sort of have to go along with whatever idiocy her doctor recommends. Mom would work more, but she has an autistic kid to take care of. Very vicious cycle. Kid is lucky because her mom is an absolute wolverine. I am kind of passive. Mom ain’t.

  71. 71.

    Aleta

    @Sab: Can you get her a different teacher? Or maybe a solo teacher who’ll support her body however she needs to learn to relax in the water? The depth of water doesn’t matter at all. If she’s having a bad time or getting tense, the water won’t hold her up as well, so less likely to learn to float. Relaxing in the water should be the only goal imo.

  72. 72.

    Sab

    @zhena gogolia: My whole family mostly swims competently. My older sister and my brother were city champions. I am not competetive, but I do swim comfortably. I have never seen swim training like this.

  73. 73.

    frosty

    @zhena gogolia: After years of miserable lessons, my dad taught me to swim. Then the Boy Scouts taught me the sidestroke, backstroke, lifesaving, and the Mile Swim.

    ETA around 5, 6, or 7? at the YMCA, indoor pool. All the boys were naked. WTF was that about? I shudder to think.

  75. 75.

    marduk

    How is Divinity 2? I got bored with the first one too quickly but the game is right up my alley in theory.

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    @lamh36: As I said in the previous thread, possibly some kind of asset shelter attempt, or Vanessa is taking the money now while there still is money. It may not work but they’re going to try.

  79. 79.

    Gretchen

    @Sab: My four year old grandson’s swim lessons going badly also. It’s part of the daycare program so we don’t know what’s happening, but he’s started resisting going on Wednesdays, and one Wednesday had such a meltdown his dad didn’t take him to school at all. The teachers insist he loves swimming and show me pictures of him looking happy in the pool, so I don’t know. I’d definitely pull your granddaughter out and report the teacher after that incident – that’s more likely to give a kid a fear of water than teach them to swim. Unless it’s part of a bigger program. My grandson is otherwise doing well in this program, and has gotten kicked out of two other daycares for behavior problems, so we hate to take him out of an otherwise-successful situation if it can be resolved.

  80. 80.

    Sab

    @Aleta: We can’t get a different teacher. They think she is Dogs gift to autistics.

    My own personal opinion, which might be wrong, is that she is in the Natatorium of a local suburb, Cuyahoga Falls, that has always been known locally as Caucasian Falls. It has mellowed a bit, but I wouldn’t be surprised if their elderly autistic expert swim instructor doesn’t want brown kids in her pool.

  81. 81.

    mai naem mobile

    @Sab: if this is a city program you need to file a complaint with the highest up because that is fucked up. And for godsake there has to be another instructor.

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: According to the source, whose resume checked out, Junior didn’t like that Vanessa was pregnant and “fat” during the time with her third and was not having sex with the Junior Trump.

    that sounds…. vaguely familiar….

  84. 84.

    Gretchen

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s interesting. I wonder how closely looped Tweeden is to all this. She’s the one who took down Al Franken days after he showed he was going to be a formidable adversary on the Russia investigation. I’ve always thought that was a political hit, and would love to see Roger Stone, Tweeden and Jr. held responsible for it.

  85. 85.

    MoCA Ace

    The one and only goal of beginner swim training is getting the student to be comfortable in the water. That’s why infant training starts with a parent in the pool. I would get a different instructor before she cements a lifelong fear of the water in the kid.

  86. 86.

    Gretchen

    @Sab: That would be a shame. I’m sorry this is happening. Wolverine Mom should help though. Even if she’s awful, Scary Mom might keep her in line.

  87. 87.

    Aleta

    @Sab: This looks interesting — if it’s possible to locate another organization near her, that doesn’t yet have a low income program, one can ask the organization to apply for scholarship $ to fund some lower income swim students.

    Since 2014, Autism Speaks has awarded $500,000 in scholarship funding to over 110 swimming programs in 29 states. Important Note: Individuals on the autism spectrum and their families may not apply for the program. However, Autism Speaks encourages families to contact local organizations providing swimming lessons and ask them to submit an application.

    Programs should have a successful history of supporting individuals with autism and providing services to disadvantaged children and adults on the autism spectrum.

    Organizations that provide qualified swimming and water safety lessons specifically for individuals with autism are encouraged to apply. Applications will be accepted on a continuing basis.

  88. 88.

    Sab

    @Sab: My idiot brother ( he is now a Republican/libertarian politician outside of SF ) dropped our baby sister into a lake in Ohio, hoping she would learn to swim. She didn’t. We were lucky to fish her out before she drowned. She has had a mortal fear of water ever since. She can swim now, but if you scare her she freezes up and sinks like a stone.

    I am a bad swimmer, but I can paddle reliably. My sister would drown under any pressure.

    This bitch is doing that to my grand-daughter. I am not naive. She knows exactly what she is doing.

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    @NotMax: Ok. The Russian hacks on our power grid and related infrastructure were documented in the past two years here and here. among other places.

    Not doubting the China angle, I’m just sayin’…

  93. 93.

    smike

    @NotMax: Reality called to tell me that every country in the world is likely trying to hack every other country in the world. So every country is also on defense – against even their own citizens. Kinda scary.

  94. 94.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: I remember that. I find the timing of the divorce filing to be interesting, that’s why I mentioned the money angle. Following the money is a good idea when looking at anything these people do.

  95. 95.

    Citizen Alan

    @Amir Khalid:

    In my most pessimistic moments, I suspect that future historians will say that WW3 was fought and won in the summer and fall of 2016. It was fought, they will say, entirely in cyberspace between the Western Alliance and the New Russian Empire, and the victory of the Russians was so absolute that a plurality of Americans welcomed Trump as Putin’s hand-chosen viceroy.

  97. 97.

    Villago Delenda Est

    So, this “amicable” divorce between Uday and his moll seems to be, well, convenient for someone whose family business was just subpoenaed and we’re busy moving assets out of reach in the divorce settlement.

    Uday needs to go to prison forever. They can bury him inside the walls.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Ack I’ve got a comment in moderation for who knows the eff what. Didn’t say “penis” or anything like that.

  99. 99.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Yarrow: the money-dodge makes sense given whom we’re talking about, but the timing of that story, and these tweets DJTJ seems to have forgotten about, suggest that this was, in fact, a long time coming.

    and Meuller’s gotta at least interview her, right? Did you and your husband ever have any social engagement with Russians? Did he say why he wanted to have dinner with them? etc

  105. 105.

    randy khan

    @Gin & Tonic:

    There are publicly-available maps of a lot of the U.S. fiber infrastructure, and in 2016 someone compiled a national map. A lot of carriers make their maps available to show prospective customers what they can offer.

  106. 106.

    Aleta

    @Sab: I have a close friend in your state who worked as a professional 30 + years in full-time programs for autistic kids. (Now volunteers.) I can ask for suggestions w/o telling any details or specific information, if that is OK with you. If you want.

  109. 109.

    J. Adams Jefferson

    @Feebog: @chris: @Jeffro:
    Decent backgrounder on Russian infrastructure hacking, from Andy Greenberg at Wired, July 2017. No this is not new news. Wired (with several by Greenberg) has useful docs that go a good ways to help explain how it’s done (“Ukraine” as search term brings up a lot like this).

    How An Entire Nation Became Russia’s Test Lab for Cyberwar

    …What Ukraine has faced for the past three years may have been just a series of practice tests… A training ground. Even in their most damaging attacks…the hackers could have gone further. They could have destroyed not just the Ministry of Finance’s stored data but its backups too. They probably could have knocked out Ukrenergo’s transmission station for longer or caused permanent, physical harm to the grid, he says—a restraint that American analysts like Assante and Lee have also noted. “They’re still playing with us,” Yasinsky says. Each time, the hackers retreated before accomplishing the maximum possible damage, as if reserving their true capabilities for some future operation.

    Many global cybersecurity analysts have come to the same conclusion. Where better to train an army of Kremlin hackers in digital combat than in the no-holds-barred atmosphere of a hot war inside the Kremlin’s sphere of influence? “The gloves are off. This is a place where you can do your worst without retaliation or prosecution,” says Geers, the NATO ambassador. “Ukraine is not France or Germany. A lot of Americans can’t find it on a map, so you can practice there.” (At a meeting of diplomats in April, US secretary of state Rex Tillerson went so far as to ask, “Why should US taxpayers be interested in Ukraine?”)

    An isolated incident of physical destruction may not even be the worst that hackers can do. The American cybersecurity community often talks about “advanced persistent threats”—sophisticated intruders who don’t simply infiltrate a system for the sake of one attack but stay there, silently keeping their hold on a target. In his nightmares, Lee says, American infrastructure is hacked with this kind of persistence: transportation networks, pipelines, or power grids taken down again and again by deep-rooted adversaries. “If they did that in multiple places, you could have up to a month of outages across an entire region,” he says. “Tell me what doesn’t change dramatically when key cities across half of the US don’t have power for a month.”

  110. 110.

    Steeplejack

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    There’s a whole trend that I am noticing. On some website the other day I saw some (quite attractive) young lady’s occupation given as “international lingerie model.” Would love to know what criteria bump you up from ordinary “lingerie model.”

  111. 111.

    Aleta

    @Sab: made a mistake. Not your state, but a neighboring one. But this person was working fairly high up before retiring last year, so still might have useful info.

  112. 112.

    No One of Consequence

    @Sab: If you possibly can, get one-on-one swimming instruction for a couple of weeks at a private pool, (maybe a couple beyond a couple), in order gain a level of comfort in and around the water for the child. I am not familiar with autism as such, but quite familiar with swimming and it’s instruction. My strong advice is to not allow any sort of negative memory or association form with swimming or water. Even if your instructor did not know about the child’s needs specifically, they are endangering someone who knows what they are doing having the opportunity to instill capability and calmness in the water, by creating negative memories and/or associations with swimming/water.

    After some initial comfort (and perhaps capability on the child’s part) do frequent work at the public pool, ‘playing’ out those skills, with emphasis on ‘play’. Make sure the activity is fun. So the child really looks forward to it.

    (Currently still in the stages of this process with my own child. I did not swim in college, but could swim before I could walk, and have no memory of not having complete comfort and freedom in water I could not stand in. My own child would not ‘learn’ from me, but I had a private instructor do the initial instruction, and I took it over after two weeks. Signed up for group lessons at the local Y, and they were a complete waste of time and effort. He made negative progress. So, we just go to the pool together, and work for a small amount of time, right when it opens. (Minimal distractions.)

    My goal is a child who is comfortable in the water and can save themselves should they need to. I am not trying to grow the next Michael Phelps. (They won’t be tall enough or have the fins (nor the gills, for that matter…) ).

    Just my $0.02.

    – NOoC

  113. 113.

    SWMBO

    @Sab: I have a 37 year old autistic son. He learned to swim in yearly baby/ toddler swim classes. The first time he was about 8 months old. All they did with the babies was have them learn to float on their back and kick to the edge and hang on. He trusted me and the instructor to the point he fell asleep floating. When he was older and had learned to swim instead of float and kick, he had this wonderful instructor who was a patient saint. After the kids learned to swim he would walk off the end of the diving board with them. It was a safety lesson to teach them what to do if they fell in the deep end of a pool or off a boat. None of the kids refused to take his hand and step off with him. He had explained what they were doing and why. He also never had a kid panic and forget what to do. He must have been exhausted at the end of the day. This was a 3 week course that you could sign up for multiple times.

  114. 114.

    Suburban Mom

    @Sab: I just saw this and am replying late, but perhaps you’ll see it. While I’ve not been in this position as a a parent, I have taught a number of kids on the spectrum as a Sunday School teacher. Teachers, coaches, scout leaders etc. who volunteer or don’t have education degrees (including me) are typically not knowledgeable about how best to work with kids on the spectrum, or kids with other kinds of learning challenges. The good ones will seek out and welcome guidance from parents and more experienced teachers on how to engage most effectively with the kids. The bad ones throw kids in pools. I agree that you should report this unsafe behavior.

  115. 115.

    Suburban Mom

    @Sab: And that’s a whole different issue. I assumed good faith in my first response. This is just evil. Sorry you’re dealing with it.

  117. 117.

    Ohio Mom

    @Sab: You are going to have to drop this teacher NOW, before grandson is more traumitized (if he is at all like Ohio Son, he’ll have a long memory of this event), find a different swim teacher, and get private lessons.

    All the hubbub of the other kids splashing around him is probably a lot of sensory input to process at the same time he’s trying to listen to the teacher AND trying to get his body to do whatever.

    Ask around the autism community for tried and true instructors. Ask other families, teachers, interventionalists and therapists, his developmental pediatrician, the local autism society if one exists, the local Special Olympics people.

    My kid’s first swim teacher was an OT on the mommy track, working part time around her kid’s schedule. Since she was an OT, she took Ohio Son’s sensory issues into account. For example, she did not introduce putting his head under water for a very, very long time, and took his meltdowns in stride.

    Every spring, parents of toddlers would sign up for lessons to drown-proof them — I don’t think I would ever believe a toddler was fully drown-proofed but that is not why I mention this. Her approach with these little ones was the complete opposite: she dunked them under water first thing.

    How did we find her? Via my kid’s private OT.

    We saw her for about four or five years, until she developed an allergy to chlorine and quit the business. OS went without lessons for many years, until we met an autism family who loves their swim teacher.

    OS won’t swim just for fun but he does enjoy the structure of lessons (it does look little strange to see a hairy 20 year old young man in the Y pool with a teacher but so what?
    Autism in the family causes you to develop a thick skin). He’s been working with this teacher for three years now. She has no formal autism training but she is an old broad who had dozens of foster kids and has seen it all. She is unflappable and finds OS’s quirks amusing.

    Both swim teachers quickly gave up on teaching OS to jump in the deep end. He has a lot of what OTs call gravitational insecurity. He likes to be firmly planted on the ground, finds moving through space terrifying. So no bike riding or roller coasters for him, which makes him different from the autistic kids who like to spin and find roller coasters orgasmic.

    As Scott says, hope that helps.

  118. 118.

    Ohio Mom

    @Ohio Mom: Just finished reading this thread. Lots of good advice from everyone.

    I would add that being autismfamily means always having to advocate. There can be no benign neglect (which is how I would categorize my parents’ approach back in the olden day’s of my childhood). Yes, it can be exhausting to always have to be on guard but you haven’t a choice. It is doable though, and if you will seek them out, you have lots of fellow travelers to give you support.

  119. 119.

    Ohio Mom

    @Ohio Mom: P.S. sorry I got grandchild’s gender wrong. Still drinking first coffee.

    There is finally a lot of attention being paid to girls on the spectrum. I suggest visiting the website of publisher Jessica Kingsley for some great books.

  121. 121.

    J R in WV

    @Sab:

    I think that one could frame putting someone unable to swim well into deep water as a murderous assault. If race is involved it would also be a hate crime. Perhaps a meeting with swimming instructor, wolverine parent, and a lawyer, recorded, with that framing, would provoke teacher into revealing her attitude towards student?

    Perhaps skip the meeting, write letters describing this horrible event to those in charge of the program? Perhaps skip that, go to police?

    Show no mercy, destroy this abhorant person’s ability to teach youngsters.

  122. 122.

    Betsy

    @Sab: That’s child endangerment and abuse!! Stop the lessons with that witch of an instructor immediately and start making phone calls and writing formal complaints to anyone and everyone you can think of. Call the legal aid society. This is surely not the first time that instructor has done that to a child. Fight!
    Learning to swim is supposed to be fun, not torture and abuse!

  123. 123.

    Ohio Mom

    With all due respect, it is enough of an effort to raise a child on the autism spectrum. Some fights have to be left to others to wage, e.g., bringing this swim teacher to some kind of justice.

    If Sab and Sab’s family have energy and focus for that, fine; if not, there will be many other battles to come on Granddaughter’s behalf and it is okay to save their energy for them.

    It is probably a better use of their time to help Granddaughter process and move on from this trauma.

    I think that the example of “We are going to make sure this never happens to another child,” would be lost on a four year old. If she was much older and able to understand, I agree that showing her that we advocate for ourselves by reporting the swim teacher to her bosses, etc., might be a great thing to do.

    Sab, are you seeing all these comments? I came to this thread late and have been looking for you since on newer threads, but I don’t have time to go through every thread. I hope I’ve been helpful — I’m pulling for your family

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