So, Joe Biden was in Miami yesterday, speaking at an event to raise awareness about sexual assault on campus, and he said High School Joe Biden would have whipped High School Donald Trump’s ass for disrespecting women. Here’s the quote, via NBC Channel 2:
Former Vice President Joe Biden on Tuesday told an audience at the University of Miami that he would have “beat the hell out” of President Trump in high school for comments he has made about women.
“A guy who ended up becoming our national leader said, ‘I can grab a woman anywhere and she likes it,'” Biden said, according to ABC News. “They asked me if I’d like to debate this gentleman, and I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘If we were in high school, I’d take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him.'”
“I’ve been in a lot of locker rooms my whole life. I’m a pretty damn good athlete.”
He added, “Any guy that talked that way was usually the fattest, ugliest S.O.B. in the room.”
I like Biden, but I wish he hadn’t gone there.
This morning, Trump responded to Biden’s remarks via Twitter in exactly the manner you’d expect:
Crazy Joe Biden is trying to act like a tough guy. Actually, he is weak, both mentally and physically, and yet he threatens me, for the second time, with physical assault. He doesn’t know me, but he would go down fast and hard, crying all the way. Don’t threaten people Joe!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 22, 2018
Maybe Anti-Cyberbullying Czar Melania Trump can weigh in here?
There’s no equivalence between Trump and Biden on women. Biden has his flaws and has made serious mistakes (Anita Hill), but his heart is generally in the right place. He’s just a few years older than my dad, who also has old-fashioned views on chivalry: “Don’t bother reporting a sexual harasser to HR, honey — tell me, and I’ll beat the living shit out of him.”
Trump is a sociopathic pig who sees women as objects to be used and controlled, which is infinitely worse. But there’s an objectification and lack of agency in the Biden and Dad-style impulse to protect women too. That’s part of the problem.
Alyssa Rosenberg at The Post wrote a column that outlines why Biden’s remarks were unhelpful. I recommend the whole thing, but here’s the concluding paragraph:
There’s no question that Trump’s policies and nasty, sexist behavior can do real damage to women. But the best way to fight Trump isn’t for Biden to remind us how tough he was in high school. It’s for the former vice president, and everyone else, to get behind the women who are standing up to Trump.
Yeah, what she said.
Jeffro
Fresh faces in 2020, please. That is all.
different-church-lady
I can’t figure out if this kills Biden’s chances for 2020, or makes them skyrocket.
Corner Stone
When will every red state D be asked to slag the shit out of Biden for this?
Betty Cracker
Interesting Trump-Russia development:
Jeffro
Meanwhile, I see that Trumpov’s attorney John Dowd has just resigned. Surely this is good news for DJT, right?
In only slightly related news, I helped a few wingnuts get just a lil’ bit woke earlier today…they were throwing around some bullshit about Dems practicing “identity politics”, so I told them a) “identity politics” is just dogwhistling for “I don’t like women and blacks voting” and b) quit kidding yourselves, ALL politics is “identity politics” of one sort or another. They sorta ‘meh’-d on A and had to agree on B. Not too shabby for a Thursday morning!
trollhattan
Like Biden in sum but I also observe he’s past his sell-by date and not a viable candidate for 2020. He can still help his party, this isn’t that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Me too, but I did love one tweet back at trump that I can’t find now: Biden could just challenge you to a race up one flight of stairs.
James E. Powell
Trump’s lead lawyer just resigned. I wonder what is coming in the Friday news dump.
I have never harbored any hopes that Mueller would literally end the Trump administration. That would require Republican cooperation and they are never gonna give him up.
But Trump apparently has problems that can’t be solved even with the full cooperation of the Republicans in congress and about 2/3rds of the press/media who view him as the best thing to happen since 9/11.
ETA – Damn, you guys are quick.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Was cousin Maureen mean to him? Someone needed to ask.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker: NBC reporting kasowitz is in the mix to come back as Trump’s lawyer. That is too funny. Nothing but C- and D’s all across the board.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Gov Jerry’s been known to challenge politicians to pull-up contests. Wouldn’t bet against him, either.
rikyrah
Ed Krassenstein ?
@EdKrassen
Robert Mueller already knows about Cambridge Analytica. Legal experts I’ve talked to suspect he’s building a RICO case, not only against President Trump, but against Don Jr., Kushner, Ivanka, and at least 4 members of Congress as well.
This will be HUGE!
And of course Glorious!
11:02 PM – Mar 20, 2018
LAO
I have grown to loathe everything about our national political discourse.
different-church-lady
@Jeffro:
He’ll end up representing himself.
cmorenc
Regardless of what the better tactical approach to dealing with Trump’s abusive behavior toward women is, it’s hard to not at least entertain the notion that it would be really satisfying if someone would just beat the shit out of Trump. Even though the notion may likely be counterproductive on several fronts if someone actually carried it out.
rikyrah
Legal Defense Fund
✔
@NAACP_LDF
“There are perhaps no two areas in the criminal justice system that are marked by greater racial disparities than the sentencing of drug-related offenses & the imposition of the death penalty.” – @Sifill_LDF. Read our statement: http://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/ldf-responds-trump-administration-proposal-pursue-death-penalty-drug-traffickers … https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/976473888753442816 …
7:09 PM – Mar 21, 2018
Mike in NC
The great Confederate state of South Carolina is in many respects a deplorable glibertarian paradise, where pretty much anything goes. Having sex with farm animals is no big deal. Buying a gun is much easier than buying a bottle of booze, and you don’t have to wear a jock strap to ride your motorcycle, much less a helmet. Yet today I read that the state has a 1991 law requiring people to apply for a license to collect shark teeth.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@rikyrah: Oh please, please, please let this be true.
ETA: Throw in Sarah Sanders and I’ll be reduced to tears of joy
Corner Stone
Stephanie Ruhle is on fire this AM.
Matt McIrvin
This is why Biden isn’t our ideal 2020 presidential candidate, though his heart’s largely in the right place.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah:
If I may pray for a minute…..Amen.
Corner Stone
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
In prison would be great but I would also take never seeing her, ever again, and being content in the knowledge that no one would ever hire for anything at all, including drive thru windows.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@rikyrah: I’m assuming that Kellyanne was a key nexus in every trump/Mercer connection. I so want her indicted, at the very least.
No shit?
Cermet
This is why old, white men (aka most all people in political power) are past their sell date. Time for fresh blood to take over. I’d say this is getting old but that would be redundant.
rikyrah
No mention of Russia hacks of US power plants in Trump Putin chat
Rachel Maddow shares some of NBC News’ exclusive interview by Pete Williams of FBI Director Chris Wray and notes that not only did Donald Trump not mention the UK poisonings when he called Vladimir Putin, but he also didn’t mention Russia hacking U.S. power plants and energy infrastructure.
rikyrah
Students press for change on guns ahead of March For Our Lives
Emma Gonzalez, Jaclyn Corin, and Sarah Chadwick, students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas who have been thrust into activism against gun violence after a shooting tragedy at their school, talk with Rachel Maddow about whether legislators are doing enough to prevent future atrocities.
rikyrah
Trump replaces one controversial CDC chief with another
03/22/18 09:20 AM
By Steve Benen
Things didn’t go well for Donald Trump’s first choice to lead the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Brenda Fitzgerald was ousted in January following a handful of embarrassing controversies, including reports that she bought shares in a tobacco company – after she became CDC director.
Yesterday, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar announced her successor: Dr. Robert Redfield, a prominent AIDS researcher, is the new head of the CDC. At first blush, Redfield at least has the kind of background one might expect for this position – he’s a longtime virologist and physician – and unlike so many other Trump appointees, Redfield wants the agency he’ll lead to exist.
But this choice is not without critics. NBC News reported that Redfield has been accused of overseeing “shoddy HIV research.” Former Air Force Lt. Col. Craig Hendrix, a doctor who is now director of the division of clinical pharmacology at Johns Hopkins, worked with Redfield at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research and told NBC, “Either he was egregiously sloppy with data or it was fabricated. It was somewhere on that spectrum, both of which were serious and raised questions about his trustworthiness.”
BuzzFeed’s report went a little further.
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: I fervently hope this is true, but I’m not sure how much credence Krassenstein deserves. Twitterers who claim insight into what Mueller’s next move will be and constantly forecast imminent doom for Trump on other fronts feed us tidbits of political junk food. The sugar high used to be enjoyable, but I’ve unfollowed a slew of them for fear they’d rot my teeth.
Tony Jay
@Jeffro: As some clever clogs pointed out here a few days ago, ‘identity politics’ is what people used to call Civil Rights.
No Drought No More
Biden’s deep-tweet was no doubt ill considered, if not downright immature. He’s a guy, in other words. But he embarrassed himself further by bragging how he would have slapped Al Franken around, too. But I dunno Speaking as a guy myself, I think Franken is a stocky little dude with enough muscle take take Biden. remember, one crushed ribbed and Biden is rolling on the ground gasping painfully for breath. Hell, after what happened to him earlier this year, Franken would probably finish Biden off, too, if only to cheer himself up. And no guy would blame him if he did, either..
Mandalay
@Matt McIrvin:
No argument on that, but with a single comment Biden managed to make everyone forget about Trump’s threats of violence and think instead about Biden’s threat of violence. And Biden’s brag that “I’m a pretty damn good athlete” caused dirt diggers to remind us that Biden had five draft deferments for Vietnam.
Biden would be a disaster on the campaign trail.
Kay
Biden always had a big mouth. It’s appealing in some situations because a certain kind of person perceives that as “plain speaking”. You take the good with the bad.
Ohio Right wing freaks are pushing a bill that will kill women who have emergency complications in childbirth. This is always where anti-abortion was headed. They literally tier women lower on the “choose one” scale.
Forget “abortion”. Anyone who ever plans on having a child or has some connection to a woman who may have a child should oppose this. Anti-abortion people never mention pregnancy situations because they know if people figure this out they’re in big trouble. Read the next anti-abortion bill and instead of “abortion” read it in the context of “problem pregnancy where there is medical intervention”. There are lots and lots of problem pregnancies. Read the language and apply it to a woman who is in the midst of a medical crisis during pregnancy or delivery. It applies.
Amir Khalid
@different-church-lady:
Trump is consistently disregarding his lawyers’ advice and saying whatever the hell comes into his head. He is, in effect, already without legal counsel and fending for himself. This will not end well for him, which is pleasing to you and me.
Incitatus for Senate
Dear Joe Biden
I like you, but shut the fuck up
germy
@Betty Cracker:
I call it the “Palmer Report Effect” (sometimes also referred to as “Seth Abramson Syndrome”)
I stopped following them both because they were too frustrating.
Kay
This is why I love rank and file Democrats and remain one. All this fucking NOISE and our people are still like “I would like to discuss health care”
Of course they would. The question is if these blowhards will let them.
gene108
Joe Biden has his strong points, but there are reasons he flamed out in his three attempts to become President, and shooting his mouth off and saying dumb stuff is one of the main reasons.
bystander
That’s Anti Cyber Bullying Czarina to you.
If you like Alexandra Petri, this week’s column is an offer to replace Facebook for those leaving it.
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
Ed Krassenstein is also saying flatly that Trump FIRED John Dowd. Every other report I’ve seen or heard says Dowd RESIGNED. I’m unfamiliar with Krassenstein. Anyone know about him? Is he generally reliable?
MattF
Biden is saying what we already know– Trump sees everything in terms of the schoolyard. If you (or your pals) get away with threatening the ‘out’ groups, you’ve won. Doesn’t matter what teacher does or says.
Gin & Tonic
Two guys who should be retired and keeping their mouths shut. Maybe knitting or something.
bystander
– Andrea Mitchell, at least once a day, 2008 – 2016
Gravenstone
Joey, Donnie? *points to vacant corner* Quiet time for both of you, Sit down and SHUT UP!
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: The perils of being right too early.
Josie
@bystander: The whole column is on point, but this quote is painfully true.
bystander
@SiubhanDuinne: If they are saying Dowd resigned, you can bet he was fired.
The part that should put a smile on all our lips is knowing that somebody is going to be eating a huge amount of billable hours.
Gravenstone
@SiubhanDuinne: Saw somewhere a couple of days ago (yeah, helpful I know) that Trump would dearly like to rid himself of both Dowd and Cobb. So a firing is certainly plausible.
SRW1
You can take the caveman out of the cave, but taking the cave out of the caveman is much harder.
Joe Falco
Sometimes, it’s nice to just take a seat, Uncle Joe, and let other people do the talking. It’s good to be on the same side, but please…take a seat.
Kay
@bystander:
It’s not really a gaffe to me. It’s just really tone deaf, and, sadly, an indication of his age. Democrats have this crushing advantage with young women. It’s massive, the younger “gender gap”. Two old men strutting around shouting about their honor isn’t going to appeal to them. The time for this has just passed.
Nicole
The “I would’ve kicked that guy’s ass for you” is yet another way for men to make sure everything is about them. I like Joe, too, but yeah, he needs to maybe not do the talking for a bit and do the listening instead.
germy
@SiubhanDuinne: His twitter profile says “Journalist, Entrepreneur, Investor, Cryptocurrency” but no connection to any actual news outlet . . . he could be anything.
schrodingers_cat
Joe Biden needs to STFU and go home.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: Wonder where that comment went?
Kay
Obama was good at talking to women. One of his many political skills, but under-rated in my view. I can’t even describe how to do it but I was listening to him once defending his contraception program and he somehow managed to not be a jerk about it.
The others could take lessons! :)
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I deleted my comment, but my estimate is that the RICO stuff is most likely to come from NY state AG Schneiderman. I have no doubt that the Special Counsel’s office has focused closely on Cambridge Analytica and how it fits as a major bridging node between the President’s campaign, other GOP campaigns, other GOP and movement conservative PACs and super PACs, both alt-right and conservative media (the entire gamut between Rage Furby and Fox News), and Russian intelligence services and Russian organized crime. Between what he can access via the counterintelligence task force he inherited from US intelligence, as well as what he gets from our allies and partners, especially the Five Eyes network, he will be able to build a full, detailed, and nuanced understanding of who did what, when, and how.
Corner Stone
@Nicole:
“And then I would have carved our initials into the old oak tree in the town square because I loves ya, baby!”
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: When you brush your teeth with Pepsodent.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: I deleted it. It didn’t need to be there.
Mandalay
So after the supposed “leak” on Trump congratulating Putin, there’s this fake news from an anonymous source “familiar with the president’s thinking”:
With Trump’s new layer Di Genova being enamored with “deep state” conspiracy theories himself, it seems very likely that the leaker on Trump’s conversation with Putin was Trump himself, based on advice from Di Genova (since Trump is too dumb to think of something like that on his own).
For them, the “leak” can be depicted as yet another example of the Deep State being out to get Trump……just like the Mueller Inquiry.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s a slippery slope, Professor. Next thing you’ll be Photoshopping yourself out of pictures. “Who, me? I wasn’t there, look.” Then on to renaming streets and town squares.
pat
@Kay:
Don’t forget the case in Ireland a couple of years ago where a woman from India, not even a Christian, was denied an abortion until the dying fetus no longer had a heartbeat….. she died too, after days in agony.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: RICO is a federal law, so can Schneiderman bring charges?
LAO
@JPL: No. But, in NYS we have “Enterprise Corruption” — which is our state RICO charge. Here’s a link.
JPL
@LAO: Thanks.. Off to read..
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: There is a New York state equivalent. Or what @LAO: said.
JPL
@LAO: @Adam L Silverman: Would laundering money for the mob fall under that statute?
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I’ll leave that to LAO. She is both an attorney and one who practices in NY state.
Starfish
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton and Roxane Gay are throwing shade at men who like to tell women what to do.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Do you think it will pass?
@pat: Yes, Savita Halappanavar. They basically tortured that poor woman to death and should be in fucking jail for life, IMO.
LAO
@JPL: Short answer — Yes. Money Laundering (Article 470) is a specified criminal act under the Enterprise Corruption Act. But, note there needs to be a pattern of criminal activity — ie, 3 criminal acts; and it does not need to be money laundering for the mob, any money laundering will do.
Kay
@pat:
Right and the US healthcare system is BAD at this. Women die more here. So this attitude trickles down to our actual health care.
I think the word “abortion” stops people thinking about pregnancy. Because people who care about women should be reading that statute and applying it to women who HAVE the baby! It DIRECTLY applies to them. Every word of these bans can be applied to that situation and WILL be applied to that situation. The laws apply to ALL pregnant women, not just those who are undergoing abortions. That’s how insane these people are. They draft these things in the context of their zealotry and are so reckless they don’t even see this huge group of people they are scooping up.
There was a reason for “life of the mother” and it wasn’t based on abortion. It was based on pregnancy. It’s no longer about “abortion”. It’s about laws that will impact women who deliver. It terrifies me that they’re blind to it.
The Moar You Know
@bystander: Swear to God, the only time FB did this to me was to vomit up, on a bad day, a reminder that my dog had died four years ago. Would I like to share this?
A nuke up FB’s ass, maybe.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
No. The mainstream anti-abortion groups know (I believe) that if people start reading these statutes as applying to all pregnant women, abortion or no abortion, they’re screwed.
It’s discussed in medical circles. There are whole papers on it. They’re in practice, these physicians so they know that abortion is only half the story. They don’t see women who had abortions- obviously- those women are not delivering. They see women who didn’t have an abortion. The language applies and will be applied.
Brachiator
@Mandalay:
Yep.
trollhattan
@bystander: Hilarious.
Princess
Biden and Trump in High School:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA0OlCQLC0Q
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: Yeeeah, when I heard Redfield’s name come up I thought “Wait a minute… isn’t that the guy… wasn’t there something hinky about HIV research going on with him?” Yes.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: a RICO case, hmm? Why that sounds like something certain Balloon Juicers have been expecting to hear for over a year now, how about that? When do we (collectively) get to be ‘talking heads’ on the Sunday news shows?
bystander
@JPL: Money laundering would definitely qualify.
I’m just disappointed to learn that unless one of the trumpletons has been using a gun, no class A aggravated felony.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: There are countries where they can’t terminate ectopic pregnancies until the fallopian tube bursts. That is what this would do.
BretH
…and anyone ever in a position of negotiating with Trump nods their heads at how easily he can be provoked to a knee-jerk response.
Flattery and insult are powerful weapons.
Mike in Pasadena
@Corner Stone: Yeah, let’s all shit on Biden now ’cause we’re all such hot shit. Oops, no, just cold turds.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Mueller is a woman? I need to pay attention to the news more.
I took Biden’s point as Trump’s is a bully and a coward, that’s why Trump grabs women. Because they won’t fight back.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Don’t think there’s a prison big enough to hold half of Ireland.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
They’ll have to decide if the oath they swore matters more then a law that breaks their oath.
Be lawful or be good. The forced birthers are determined to make this a mandatory choice.
TenguPhule
@bystander:
Pretty sure at least one of them owns a gun.
Betty Cracker
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
::::whooosh::::*
*Sound of the point flying over your head. Or Biden’s. Or both.
Gelfling 545
I find myself surprisingly unapposed to VP Biden’s remarks. Possibly because we are in the same age group and had a similar (RC) upbringing. I know my brothers had it drummed into them that they must protect their sisters especially but also females in general. Mostly though, it’s just because Trump is rapidly eroding my non-violent principles to the extent than having him get beat down might be welcome. Embarrassing but true.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mandalay: Ya’, didn’t that tabloid book say most of it’s sources were Trump’s friends because Trump calls them up all day and talks endlessly about stuff that’s supposed to be secret or confidential?
Gelfling 545
@Cermet: This old woman does not disagree but please name names. Who’s waiting on the bench?
Corner Stone
@Mike in Pasadena: GFY
The Other Bob
Why does anyone have a problem with this Biden statement? Are you saying, you would not want to kick Trump’s ass for his behavior? I would.
Betty Cracker
@Gelfling 545 & @The Other Bob: The Rosenberg column I linked in the OP addresses the issue with Biden’s remarks much eloquently than I did. To sum up: the problem isn’t that Biden was moved to defend women — everyone should oppose Trump’s vile misogyny. It’s that Biden made it about himself and his studmuffin status.
Mandalay
@The Other Bob:
Because before Biden opened his mouth the media was reporting on Trump’s violence against women, but now it is reporting on a threat of violence against the president made by a Democrat.
And apart from that it was a really counterproductive and tone deaf thing to say; we’re finally moving on from the knuckle dragging notion that the best way to address violence against a woman is to beat up a man, but Biden didn’t get the memo.
Rob in CT
Oh, Joe. No.
gvg
@Brachiator: Nope. Biden isn’t big news, Trump is right now.
Also what about normal non strategic thinking? Biden is supposed to “know better” I’ll grant you, but ordinary people who have a family member being harassed or themselves fending off a jerk or a friend at work, do think about beating the real jerks up and if they happen to be men, that doesn’t mean they want it to be about them, it can mean they are just really mad and why not? they should be. Normally it’s not helpful because real life doesn’t turn out to work like a story most of the time, but still, people think like that and Biden is just voicing it.
I think it also reflects that most of us think Trump is a fake macho braggart who would flee from a small boo.
raven
@The Other Bob: You’re not from around here are you?
gratuitous
Refresh my memory: Isn’t Trump the one who tweeted .gifs of himself pummeling people with the CNN logo for a head? I decline to listen to any puling from such a “man.”
pat
@Matt McIrvin:
There are countries where they can’t terminate ectopic pregnancies until the fallopian tube bursts. That is what this would do.
JaneSays
@Betty Cracker: What you said.
Look, I’d love to see indictments left and right, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on any of it. Hell, I wouldn’t bet the farm on being able to get rid of Napoleorange before the 2020 election (the Senate will never remove him from office regardless of whether or not the House impeaches him).
W. Kiernan
Biden said “If we were in high school I’d kick his ass,” to which Trump replied, “Oh yeah? Oh yeah? You can’t kick my ass, Biden! I’ll kick your ass!” From which you must conclude that Trump thinks he’s still in high school.
joel hanes
@Amir Khalid:
This will not end well for him, which is pleasing to you and me.
If we survive.
Fred
But anyway, Joe could have beat the Creep up and down the block then and could do the same today. Donald specializes in ripping out the hair and scalp of wives and coldcocking unprepared sons. His tough guy routine is an embarrassment to watch and is only bought by the poor desperate idiots he calls his base*.
I don’t advocate beating creeps up and down the block no matter how much they deserve it. I think arrest, prosecution and prison are more appropriate and painful.
* Sorry, I forgot we’re all supposed to respect Trump’s poor desperate idiots. I do respect your god given right to be a poor desperate idiot. Are we square now?