Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Second rate reporter says what?

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

We still have time to mess this up!

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Run to the Hills, Run for Your Lives

Run to the Hills, Run for Your Lives

by | 255 Comments

This post is in: 

Judging by the reactions to some of my gun loving buddies from the army, apparently yesterday’s March has sent some people into fits of apoplexy (name and avatar removed from the post):

I’m beginning to understand why these guys need to pack heat everywhere they go, because they are scared shitless of a teenage bisexual exercising her first amendment rights. And to be honest, I didn’t have “bald bisexual” on my list of potential kryptonite for the NRA, either.

Although in fairness, they should be scared. They can’t win the argument on a constitutional basis, they can’t win the gun argument on a historical basis, they can’t win the argument on thee basis of public opinion, and logic and reason leave their arguments for unfettered access to weapons of war equally fucked. All they have working for them, and mind you, it is a powerful weapon in and of itself, is the status quo.

And these kids are rocking that. And it’s about god damned time. The kids should be taking care of their own futures. We adults have failed them.

*** Update ***

I am sorry, I thought it was obvious this was a photoshop. Here is the original:

Reader Interactions

255Comments

  1. 1.

    Montysano

    So the question I have to ask myself these days: was the photo above produced by an angry white man with decent Photoshop skills, or Russians tasked with sowing discord? Putin seems to have found a very effective way to reach the dim and gullible.

  2. 2.

    Walker

    Despite the post, this is a known photoshop. In the original, she is tearing up a shooting target.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    We adults have failed them.

    For the record, I did ok. But I don’t have any gun loving buddies.

  6. 6.

    Another Scott

    @Walker: Yup, the original is from the TeenVogue cover story. Of course it’s a Photoshop.

    As usual, they resort to lies and strawmen to try to construct an argument. And fail.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  10. 10.

    Spanky

    Oh great! Now you’re going to make me go on Facebook on this fine weekend to fight the stupid.

    Some assholes just need to be unfollowed.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    @John Cole: I figured, but we live in a country where people thought Hillary was running a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza joint.

  13. 13.

    elm

    Tearing up the Declaration of Independence wouldn’t even make any sense. Would that be symbolic of returning the US to British rule?

  14. 14.

    khead

    Yeah, I’m definitely seeing it on social media. Also, I turned on the Fox coverage (11AM-4ish) – so you don’t have to. The best they could do was wring their hands and come up with a bunch of different versions of: “We all want the same things, but the kids are going about it the wrong way.”

  15. 15.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Bobby Thomson: Just look at how the print lines up on the supposed “tearing in half.” They’re not even smart enough to do this right. I bet St. Petersburg would do it better.

  16. 16.

    WereBear

    We adults have failed them.

    For the record, some of us have worked against bigotry and invented the Internet.

    And they welcome to taking all that and running with it :)

  17. 17.

    Baud

    @elm: That’s the Constitution (symbolically). The DoI starts with “When in the Course of Human events….”

  18. 18.

    Mike in DC

    Gun nuts’ paranoia mixed with stubborn refusal to compromise at all will turn their slippery slope arguments into self fulfilling prophecies.

  19. 19.

    Jay C

    @Southern Beale:

    I guess it’s the sight/reports of those “hundreds of thousands” of NRA opponents marching all over the country that’s getting their camo-pattern undies in a knot. After God-knows-how-long (lifetimes, probably) of wallowing in self-reinforcing right-wing media where belligerent gunhumping is presented as the only “normal” attitude for “Real Americans ™” to have, it has suddenly been brought home to them that Second Amendment Absolutism is not only NOT the majority opinion in this country, but that “gun-control” (broadly defined) advocates ARE: and comprise masses of “ordinary folks”, not just the freaks/hippies/radicals/commies/atheists/weirdos the NRA and its tawdry propaganda have tried to paint them as.

    But yeah, John: you should edit the OP to cite the “Phootoshop” issue. EDIT: never mind…..

  23. 23.

    Chip Daniels

    What’s hilarious is the thought that somehow these kids really do hate the Constitution enough to tear up a copy of it.
    Oooh, yeah, they hate, hate, hate the Constitution of the United States!

    Like Obama, the actual targets of the rightwingers are perfectly sane and sensible, so they have to invent a mythical object to fear and loathe.

  24. 24.

    schrodingers_cat

    @John Cole: Putting up the fake and doctored image on your front page without the original image is not a good idea.

    We need to ignore these RW trolls, not give them oxygen. Outvote, out organize and ignore them. Let them live their lies, there is no need to give it oxygen by engaging with them.
    You cannot wake up people who are just pretending to be asleep.

  26. 26.

    Matt McIrvin

    I’m sure many of these kids, like me, would be perfectly happy with repealing the Second Amendment. But not even Antonin frickin Scalia thought it forbade an assault weapons ban.

  27. 27.

    Chip Daniels

    Since these young people are so reminiscent of the young people who marched in the 1960’s we should probably get ahead of the curve to anticipate that, being young and still developing their social skills, some will inevitably say or do something stupid.

    Which is exactly what the young people in the 1960s did, and have done forever, and should be accepted as an inevitable part of any large scale movement.

    In other words, within the anti-war movement, the feminist movement, the civil rights movement, it was easy to find radicalized immature people who said stupid things and were nutpicked by the opposition to discredit the entire cause.

    However…if some young people wanted to sit in front of NRA headquarters and try to levitate it, I might join them.

  30. 30.

    StringOnAStick

    Yesterday I saw a car with a window sticker of a revolver pointed outward; the caption was “think twice, because I won’t”. Of course they had the ” Choose Life” custom license plate, the favorite of antiabortion zealots in this state.

  31. 31.

    Chip Daniels

    @StringOnAStick:
    I love those sorts of signs, bragging that they have a valuable, easily pawned object in their house, so you better not try and rob them!

  33. 33.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I’m beginning to understand why these guys need to pack heat everywhere they go, because they are scared shitless of a teenage bisexual exercising her first amendment rights.

    They are scared shitless of the existence of teenage bisexuals. As you know so intimately, they are scared shitless, full-stop. No causes or qualifiers necessary.

  34. 34.

    different-church-lady

    That is so obviously a photoshop at first glance that it’s fuckin’ absurd.

  36. 36.

    judge crater

    The snowflakes who need a gun to negotiate daily life in the United States can never precisely answer the question of why they need a basement full of assault rifles to protect themselves. The 2nd amendment wasn’t written to indulge the fantasies and neurotic fears of people who are simply afraid of modern life.

    The NRA and its zealots are deeply insecure – their true image should be of individuals curled up in the fetal position.

    The more they get called out, the more extreme becomes their gun-worshiping rhetoric. Losing their guns is like losing their souls. A twelve-step program for gun lovers (it’s also an addiction) is probably going to be necessary to reclaim their lives and sanity.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    “We all want the same things, but the kids are going about it the wrong way.”

    They did nothing. They lost the right to scold them because they did nothing. “Want” doesn’t mean shit. It should be a given that people don’t “want” slaughtered 1st graders. They don’t get an A+ for the bare minimum.

    This wasn’t a coup. The teenagers picked up the work because no one else would do it. It was sitting there.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    This is my personal beef, but I think the kids doing something also goes against our national hobby of pretending that young people are dumber and lazier than “our generation”, whatever our generation was.

    It was never true. It was always self-aggrandizing nonsense. You didn’t work any harder than they do and you’re not smarter or better educated then they are.

  42. 42.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Matt McIrvin:
    My observation of life has been that the vast majority of people are at base somewhere in the bisexual range, and are molded by their experiences growing up until one side totally overwhelms the other. Being a bisexual female has become pretty acceptable, ironically because the male homophobes who would freak out think lesbians are hot. It would make sense that with vastly reduced pressure against, vastly less women growing up would be pushed to one side or the other.

  43. 43.

    Another Scott

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Putting up the fake and doctored image on your front page without the original image is not a good idea.

    This.

    Memes gain strength when they’re spread, even if the intent is to mock them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  47. 47.

    rk

    I would not be friends with a person who displayed that image. Just how hateful and loathsome do you have to be to put up a fake picture like this about a teenager. Your buddies should have the balls to formulate an actual argument instead of using lies and BS. Sorry to be so harsh, but grown men (I’m assuming it’s men) should know better.

  48. 48.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Another Scott:
    I think it’s important to regularly remind ourselves and others that the right wing relies heavily on doctored images and other dishonest arguments.

    @Kay:
    My favorite sign is “When I said I’d rather die than go to math class, that was hyperbole.”

  50. 50.

    different-church-lady

    @Southern Beale:

    Right-wingers have been going absolutely BANANAS on social media.

    1) They can feel the tide turning.

    2) Social media will soon be exclusively hate-wingers. I already see it happening with genuine wingnuts (not bots) claiming they’re all about Facebook because it won the election for Trump. As liberals ditch it, Facebook will embrace them in return.

  51. 51.

    Neldob

    The first fake news I saw was a racist against Hispanics supposed news article emailed to about a hundred people. I had fun calling the emailer a liar and proving it to her email list. Good times.

  53. 53.

    No Drought No More

    The Trickster abolished the draft largely in fear of the portentuous political implications of the anti-war movement. It worked, too. By the mid 1070’s young Americans had been lulled back to sleep. They grew older, and were only jarred awake in 2003, or, at the latest, 2004. To their disoriented disgust, however, even those congressional democrats with the brains to have opposed the Bush-Cheney plot STFU about it. They’d been lulled, too, for reasons I have never discerned, or will ever approve. Which is to say, the party broke faith with Americans concerning a matter of war and peace. By my lights, their dereliction of duty goes a long, long way to explain the election of Donald Trump.

    Be that as it may, abolishing the draft proved a neat trick that bamboozled entire generations.

    But there’s no fix (or fixer) to nip this anti-assault weaponry movement in the bud. The democratic party will not break faith with it- if for no other reason now than it dare not. Whatever the issue, be it confronting foreign misadventure or domestic imbroglio, it’s magnificent to witness political muscle being flexed in a righteous cause by masses of young people. They’re our future, you know, and you can quote me.

    “There’s always people in the park on Sunday”. Ferdinand Marcos once said that, in response to a question about the half-million people who had rallied to overthrow him the day before..

  54. 54.

    Gin & Tonic

    Maybe some day I’ll grow up to be smart enough to understand what relevance Emma Gonzalez’s sexuality has to any of this.

  57. 57.

    Calouste

    @judge crater: We should start a campaign to have these folks emotional support firearms replaced with magic teddy bears. Magic teddy bears provide as much protection as an emotional support firearm (i.e. virtually zero), but your 4 year old won’t kill your 2 year old with the magic teddy bear if you leave it lying around.

  59. 59.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Gin & Tonic:
    That it’s not their world anymore.

    EDIT – Interestingly, it’s the same value on both sides. The kids know damn well conservatives want them to not exist, and are happy to give them a public middle finger over these issues.

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @different-church-lady: As liberals ditch it, Facebook will embrace them in return.

    one of aspects of the whole Facebook story that has gotten a bit lost in the storm is that they started actively working to make the platform more Republican/con friendly in response to whining from same. Of course most media types would never acknowledge that they fell for the same ref-working, as our new pal Bill Kristol smirkingly described it, I believe way back in the nineties. Also funny that Zuck apparently gets whiny when people say it’s a media company, when they’re such a good fit in the good Village of Broderton.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Montysano: @Gin & Tonic: Everyone’s favorite social media peeps from Russia!

  64. 64.

    Chyron HR

    @No Drought No More:

    B-b-b-but the dumbocraps are the real problem!

    Daily reminder that the junior senator from Vermont (or as you call him, “Messiah”) openly supports the NRA. FOR FREE.

  66. 66.

    Lee

    The gun nuts know that when a few of the gun laws that get passed to try and alleviate the problem get overturned for running afoul of the 2nd Amendment, these kids are going to want the 2nd Amendment repealed.

    I’m surprised I didn’t see a few ‘Repeal the 2nd’ signs yesterday.

  67. 67.

    mai naem mobile

    I worry about the personal safety of David Hogg anf Emma.Gonzalez because of.these gun nuts..I was kind of glad when David Hogg mentioned having guns at his house because his dad is a retired FBI agent which is ironic.

  71. 71.

    Thoughtful David

    Can we please, please, please squelch this idea that “the adults failed us [the kids]”? That is pure bothsiderist bullshit, as deep as you can get. The Democrats–adults– passed an assault weapons ban under Clinton, and it worked. The voters then handed control to the Republicans, who let the ban expire. It was not “the adults” who let this happen, it was the Republicans. Democrats have pushed over and over for gun control, and Republicans have stopped it. Including at local levels. Yes, Democratic adults have failed to get and keep good gun control, but it is because voters keep giving control to Republicans. The problem is not the adults–it’s the Republicans. Report it so.

  74. 74.

    lamh36

    @rk: I agree. I have a FB page, and whereas I can’t really control my twitter timeline, I can control my FB page. I have and will continue to delete folks or even unfriend folks who post stupid shit or who post a bunch of obvious fake news…don’t matter if it’s a friend or family. I woulnd’t tolerate it in a friend off FB and so I dont’ tolerate it on FB either

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Arclite:

    Tearing up the constitution might make sense if you support repealing the 2nd amendment.

    Except for the fact that repealing the 2nd Amendment is Constitutional.

  79. 79.

    Arclite

    @Matt McIrvin:

    But not even Antonin frickin Scalia thought it forbade an assault weapons ban.

    Why would he? Assault rifles weren’t around when the constitution was written (him being a strict constitutionalist).

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    Ooopsie! This is what happens when you actually have someone who isn’t a raving lunatic (Ty Cobb) show you the case file for your new client that lists everything given to the Special Counsel’s office and realize your assertions are delusions. And then need a convenient excuse to cover your tuchas:

    Apparently ranting on Fox News to fluff the President isn’t enough to actually establish a rapport with the President. Someone should definitely clue AMB Bolton in to this dynamic:

  82. 82.

    jc

    You could show a mob of Republicans a Photoshop image of Thomas Jefferson tearing up the Constitution, as long as you wrote: “this is not a photoshop” — and they’d believe it. The tragedy is that the Rs can’t win arguments any other way than by cheating — see DJ Trump.

  84. 84.

    efgoldman

    We adults have failed them.

    We tried our damndes to do so, but our daughter turned out to be a great young woman; smart, educated, liberal, feminist, found and married a great guy, is a great mom (and he’s a great dad), found jobs as a professional journo, which is what she always wanted to be. Apparently we failed.

  85. 85.

    balconesfault

    So the NRA is now featuring a black rapper named “Killer Mike” to push back against HS kids protesting?

    Once again, the Onion gets scooped.

  86. 86.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    What I think is hilarious is this idea that the Constitution is so sacred and that there is no better system of government. To think otherwise apparently is unpatriotic to these right-wingers.

    News flash: plenty of other places have had multiple constitutions; like France for example.

  87. 87.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    …the male homophobes who would freak out think lesbians are hot

    Mmm, no they don’t. What they “think” is that photos & vids of two hot-looking “chicks” humping the shit out of one another are hot. A middle-aged slightly flabby lesbian couple making love would be derided as “a couple of ugly d*kes” & trigger their gag reflex.

    From what I can tell, female sexuality (hetero- or homo) is far less facilitated by physical “perfection” & visual triggers than is the male variety; I suspect some of the items re the image of the female body that turn on heterosexual males don’t do much for many, even most lesbians. (ETA: Probably because women aren’t constructed or wired to obsess over pounding something into someone else until it bursts.) (Now someone jump in here & tell me how FOS this Boomer lifelong bachelor is).

  88. 88.

    Arclite

    @StringOnAStick:

    Yesterday I saw a car with a window sticker of a revolver pointed outward; the caption was “think twice, because I won’t”. Of course they had the ” Choose Life” custom license plate, the favorite of antiabortion zealots in this state.

    I’m getting stickers printed up:

    “Why does your plate say ‘Choose life’ when you threaten death?”

  89. 89.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @balconesfault:
    Shit, I hadn’t heard about him in like 2 years since the campaign. What slimy rock did they drag out from under.

  92. 92.

    Cermet

    @Lee: You are mistaken – the 2nd amendment is the ideal law – it says, in its first sentence on guns that they are to be regulated. It is the failure of the courts to properly enforce this statement of late. Hundred years ago, the Supreme Court (unlike today’s inferior court) ruled that guns can be heavily restricted/regulated. What we need are proper judges and to get rid of congress-monsters that refuse to follow the Constitution that fully requires gun type/number and even when one can carry to be heavily regulated.

  94. 94.

    TexanHombre

    Rather amusing that they claim she’s tearing up the Constitution given that one of the less talked about actions conservatives are taking is calling for a constitutional convention.

  95. 95.

    Spanky

    Recent tweet update:

    Jaclyn Corin Retweeted

    Cameron Kasky
    ‏
    Verified account

    @cameron_kasky
    33m33 minutes ago
    More
    My work for this weekend is slowing down.

    Our team is picking back up on Tuesday.

    In awe of the amazing people who stood up all around the world and marched.

    PS- Our lowball estimate for the DC March is around 850,000. Our high is about 1.3 million.

    Thank you all.

  97. 97.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @RSA:

    It’s okay to get hyperbolic about math class.

    Just wanted to acknowledge and recognize the quiet brilliance of your statement. It did not go unnoticed.

  98. 98.

    hitchhiker

    @lamh36:

    I control my twitter tl by engaging there through lists. I have a list of people I know are real and informed and trustworthy, and another of the most virulent of the nutbags, plus a couple for things that are not politics.

  100. 100.

    Gelfling 545

    @Kay: Thank you. It alsouts paid to the idea that public schools can’t provide a good education. Kids all over the country were displaying poise, intellect and knowledge far beyond what we see in our elected officials (looking at you, Trump). Actually, this is what the attempt to gut the public schools is about. They are scared witless of the educated voter.

  101. 101.

    lamh36

    @hitchhiker: I do the same. I don’t follow many folks compared to some and I def unfollow and even block a number of folks who may have followed me, but who’ve I’ve noticed to be a RWNJ or n obvious bot acct

  102. 102.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: DiGenova was also up to his eyeballs, along with Giuliani and Kallstrom, with spreading the “FBI agents are pissed that Comey is covering for Clinton and something explosive is coming” crap in October 2016. He offered to rep any FBI special agent that wanted to be a whistle blower and got himself squarely in the middle of promoting the hoax material, from the spoof right wing news sites that the Russian troll farm was promoting on social media (right into Laura Ingraham’s columns at Ben Shapiro’s website) claiming it was from sources in the NYPD and NY Field Office, that this was all part of a Clinton-Weiner-Abedin child porn ring nexus.

    Given that we know Comey opened an investigation into all of that mess involving the NY Field Office because he told this to the Senate the week before he was fired, Mueller has inherited this with everything else he inherited when he was appointed the special counsel. Kind of hard to both be the attorney for someone in the investigation when your actions are also being investigated.

  103. 103.

    balconesfault

    @TexanHombre: They want to have the Constitutional Convention during this small time window where they can still take advantage of Tea Party Activism and Democratic Lethargy in 2010 that led to the extreme gerrymandering we see.

    Once the current wave flips state houses in time for 2020 redistricting, they’re not going to be as excited about the State Legislatures across the country.

  107. 107.

    Fair Economist

    @Arclite: Nobody supporting gun control wants to rip up the Constitution. Only consevatives want that. The rest of us are aware of the “amendment” process.

    Pretty reasonable if not perfect gun control laws are quite possible with the second amendment. Only if we have to deal with nutty Heller interpretation must we repeal.

  109. 109.

    Lee

    @Cermet: You are certainly free to interpret the 2nd that way but our current courts have decided not to. If we repeal the 2nd then we don’t have to worry about how the courts will interpret it.

    It would take 20+ years of a Dem President and Senate for our courts to change back to the original interpretation of the 2nd. Might was well work on repealing it.

  110. 110.

    Gelfling 545

    @Kay: another I saw said “People kill people…with guns.”@Gelfling 545: PUTS. Puts paid. I don’t know what happened there but the comment editor wouldn’t load.

  113. 113.

    smintheus

    My right wing neighbor yesterday was repeating all the nonsense about George Soros being responsible for the rally, while fretting over how he’ll ever finish fixing up a long-abandoned junk Jeep he bought. I suggested he ask the Parkland kids for help because they seem to know how to get impossible things done and done quickly.

  114. 114.

    GregB

    Time and time again the the rightists in the US descend to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to embracing lies and propaganda.

    It is all they have because the truth and the facts are not on their side.

    Lies and propaganda are however, very powerful and effective tools.

    P.S. I love Rev. William Barber.

  115. 115.

    raven

    A lawyer who President Trump said last week would come on board to help handle his response to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation will no longer be joining the legal team.

    The lawyer, Joseph diGenova, has often vehemently defended the president on Fox News and cast the Mueller probe as a conspiracy against him. Trump enjoyed the TV appearances and wanted diGenova on his team even though he did not know him, officials say.

  118. 118.

    Gravenstone

    Clearly the scaredy cat Twattler meant not a very good PS, because c’mon – obvious! Fucking cowards. At least they know they’re on the losing side of this argument, hence the scare tactics.

  121. 121.

    tobie

    @Thoughtful David: Agreed. I understand perfectly why the kids don’t want to align with any one party but it is frustrating that the media is trying to turn their activism on guns into a both-siderist critique. The news is also trying to obscure the social-justice dimension of yesterday’s demonstrations. Has much been said about the meaning of writing “don’t shoot” on two upraised hands yet? I doubt Michael Brown, Ferguson, or the birth of the Black Lives Matter movement came up much in the coverage yesterday except from the lovely Joy Reid.

  122. 122.

    marcopolo

    First, I know this will sound derivative but I love how everyone is integrating math terminology into their comments.

    Second, in addition to debunking the emma photoshop image I believe everyone here should be promoting the fact (I would think that there are images out there) that the crowd that came out to march in DC yesterday was, once again, larger than the inauguration day crowd in Jan 2017.

  124. 124.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Poor snowflake ammosexual gun-fetishists, won’t have their toys to compensate for their tiny dicks.

    Boo-hoo-hoo.

  125. 125.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Not just symbolic. RWNJs have claimed that libtards, progressives, stupid kids (etc.) are trying to destroy the Constitution.

  127. 127.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @raven: Someone doesn’t want his reputation destroyed by taking on a deranged, doesn’t listen, doesn’t pay client who is as guilty as fucking sin.

  128. 128.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @debbie: The “Constitution” they refer to is a mythical one that was delivered by the Archangel Gabriel on stone tablets to the Founders in Philly.

    The actual one they hate with the heat of 1000 suns.

  129. 129.

    lamh36

    This may or may not be true, but FWIW, this reeks of divide and conquer to me?

    Matt Pearce ?
    ✔
    @mattdpearce
    Replying to @mattdpearce
    Yeah, I am *fascinated* by her rhetorical style and the effect it has on people, especially on the left, especially given the pressures she must be under, and especially in comparison to David Hogg, who mostly seems to throw spears at the right.
    @LionelKitchy
    FWIW all of the teens I spoke to at the NYC march yesterday specifically mentioned Emma and not David. It seems to me they see her as a more important standard bearer of their justified outrage.

    11:47 AM – Mar 25, 2018
    https://twitter.com/LionelKitchy/status/977950147949801474

  130. 130.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Was it Tucker Carlson who said they had no right to get involved? They’re the ones getting shot at, Jackass. Come back to the discussion when you’ve gone through what they have.

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    @debbie: There’s a lot of really over-the-top hate for David Hogg, too, I think because he’s the opposite–he’s a white boy who looks like he should be a loyal junior right-wing bro, and he’s on the other team.

  136. 136.

    MattF

    @Adam L Silverman: Speaking of Mattis… This morining, Jen Rubin wrote:

    Mattis right now is the lone man preventing our allies, Congress, the foreign policy community and informed citizens from abject panic. They are counting on him to cajole and shape the president’s thinking and, when and if necessary,
    refuse or deflect an order that he believes illegal or simply insane (e.g., a first strike on North Korea).

    My italics. That’s, um, quite an assertion. There’s another post about Trump himself which is equally forthright. Rubin is completely off the reservation, if anyone hadn’t noticed.

  137. 137.

    Gelfling 545

    @lamh36: I’ve got to love that they’ve essentially said to Trump “ok, we’ll play your silly game” on the Twitter field and are winning it.

  142. 142.

    stinger

    @jc:

    You could show a mob of Republicans a Photoshop image of Thomas Jefferson tearing up the Constitution, as long as you wrote: “this is not a photoshop” — and they’d believe it.

    Look how many years they watched a network calling itself “fair and balanced” when it patently wasn’t.

    I’m going to start labeling myself “tall and thin”. It should work. Who are they gonna believe — me or their own eyes?

  145. 145.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Lee:

    It would take 20+ years of a Dem President and Senate for our courts to change back to the original interpretation of the 2nd.

    Why would it take that long? The number of judges and justices are set by statute.

  147. 147.

    dmsilev

    Oh please, oh please, oh please make this happen:

    Former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski said Sunday that he could imagine President Donald Trump serving as his own chief of staff in the event of John Kelly’s ouster.

  148. 148.

    Lee Hartmann

    @elm: Good catch. These morans can’t even tell the difference between the Declaration and the Constitution..

  149. 149.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Lee: Actually most states have their own variants of the 2nd Amendment in the state constitution. So repealing the 2nd Amendment would only create a limited amount of opportunity for change.

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    @marcopolo:

    I saw that sign going past while ruckus and I were taking a rest. We were off on a side street to the left of that photo — I recognize the building in the background.

  153. 153.

    David Evans

    I was quite prepared to defend the girl if the image had been real. After all:
    1 It’s not illegal to tear up any replica document, is it? Documents can be replicated again. Dead children, not so much
    2 She would have a perfect right to say that the Constitution had failed to protect her and her classmates.

  154. 154.

    Hiram Goldberg

    @elm: Right, especially as the Declaration of Independence has no mention of guns and a guarantee that life is an inalienable right.

  155. 155.

    Gelfling 545

    @mai naem mobile: I spent yesterday whispering half- believed prayers to the universe that no armed asshole would shoot somebody at a march. Praise be to whomever, it didn’t happen.

  157. 157.

    germy

    @JR: I followed it back to what I think was the original tweet. After being challenged, he called it “satire”

  158. 158.

    trnc

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I think it’s important to regularly remind ourselves and others that the right wing relies heavily on doctored images and other dishonest arguments.

    They don’t only doctor opponents’ pictures to make them look bad. They also spend a lot of time making fantasy pictures of DT because they have a difficult time finding pictures from the last 30 years that project the image of him that fits their narrative.

  159. 159.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MattF: She’s not wrong. What is worrisome is he allowed it to leak that he told a friend on Friday that he is not sure he can work with Bolton and finds him troubling. This is basically Mattis screaming: “THIS IS A TERRIBLE PICK!!!!!”

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    @rk:

    Your buddies should have the balls to formulate an actual argument instead of using lies and BS.

    All the buddies have is lies and bullshit. There is no actual or logical argument. None. We all know what the second amendment says, there is no right of unlimited arms or their display and use. That’s why they use lies and bullshit, it’s all they have.

  163. 163.

    celticdragonchick

    Rod Fucking Dreher has now found his excuse to hate the March For Our Lives kids:

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/325658_Rod_Dreher_vs_David_Hogg_and_M

    That is the horrifying moment that the anti-gun movement lost the chance of ever winning me over. David Hogg is emerging as a skinny young Robespierre, so filled with righteousness and certainty, and stone-cold purity. I have no problem at all with him criticizing Marco Rubio or any other lawmaker, and criticizing them strongly. But what that kid said goes way beyond that. And he’s being cheered on by adults who know better, but who find him useful. What a disgusting little creep David Hogg is — but not as disgusting as the grown-ups who are using him for their own cause.

    Why the hell does anyone actually listen to this pathetic little man?

  164. 164.

    trnc

    @Baud: C’mon, now. I bet somebody could benefit from a wig made out of their hair, or maybe even a gall bladder if the recipient doesn’t know where it came from. No need to be picky about whether the donor is still using it.

  165. 165.

    Adam L Silverman

    @tobie: Actually it’s been covered pretty well. All the MSNBC evening hosts have had some of the students of color, especially the young African American women from Stoneman-Douglas on to talk. O’Donnell and Melber both highlighted her remarks and MLK’s great granddaughter’s speech yesterday. And there’s this:

  170. 170.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: the right wing has the white hot fantods, as Molly Ivins used to say, about him saying that Rubio was paid $1.05 per student in FL by the NRA. Jonah Goldberg, self-made man, is in quite a snit. The guy who ran for president saying that Barack Obama was, essentially, a traitor, must not be subject to harsh political rhetoric!

  171. 171.

    BruceFromOhio

    @Kay: “I have a GUN NUT Allergy”

    Were you in CLE? Like the two Women’s marches, it was a perfect score on the weather at a time of year such things are very iffy. And the turnout was impressive.

  172. 172.

    dmsilev

    @Adam L Silverman: This:

    “I’m going to start off by putting this price tag right here as a reminder for you guys to know how much Marco Rubio took for every student’s life in Florida,” Parkland survivor David Hogg says at #MarchForOurLives.

    Apparently it’s rude to point out that NRA dollars are essentially blood money at this point.

  174. 174.

    Citizen Alan

    @Cermet:

    The biggest reason I have for hating the Bernie Bros forever is that, having gone to law school, I’m aware of the LONG list of 5-4 scotus opinions we could have gotten overturned if Hillary had gotten to appoint Fat Tony’s replacement.

  175. 175.

    celticdragonchick

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This seems to be the part that has Dreher clutching his pearls

    Hogg said he became an activist because adults don’t know how to “use a f*cking democracy”:

    “When your old-ass parent is like, ‘I don’t know how to send an iMessage,’ and you’re just like, ‘Give me the fucking phone and let me handle it.’ Sadly, that’s what we have to do with our government; our parents don’t know how to use a fucking democracy, so we have to.”

    An edited down version of this clip was removed by YouTube as harrassment after it was linked by the Drudge Report.

    “I’m beyond exhausted,” Hogg said. “I get to a certain point where I just get so tired that I keep going. It creates a positive feedback loop in some ways — the more stress and work I put on me, the more stress and work I can deal with.”

    “It just makes me think what sick fuckers out there want to continue to sell more guns, murder more children, and honestly just get reelected,” Hogg said. “What type of shitty person does that? They could have blood from children splattered all over their faces and they wouldn’t take action, because they all still see these dollar signs.”

    “Honestly, it’s alright that people are buying more guns. I just care that they are being safe individuals. And they can practice their Second Amendment rights all they want. I don’t give a f*ck about that. I just want to make sure that a crazy-ass individual doesn’t get an AR-15 or any weapon at all,” Hogg said about guns.

    To Florida Gov. Rick Scott: “You’re kind of like Voldemort at this point. You should just retire, because you aren’t going to get elected to Senate.”

    To Sen. Marco Rubio: “What about the $176,000 you took for those 17 people’s blood?”

  178. 178.

    tobie

    @Adam L Silverman: The students have been fantastic on the intersection of gun violence with poverty, racial profiling, police policy, lack of investment in schools and other social programs, etc. Hats off to them. And I know that MSNBC has discussed the matter. I just don’t know how shows like Good Morning, America have reported on the intersections. The lineup of speakers in DC yesterday could have not have been more powerful in drawing these connections.

  179. 179.

    trollhattan

    @celticdragonchick:

    lost the chance of ever winning me over

    Without pondering how much of a hot mess Rod Dreher was at the same age as David Hogg, prior to anything David said the chances of “winning Mr. Dreher over” were identical to my chances of dating the 25 year old Christie Brinkley. A favor not granted is not the same as a favor not offered.

  185. 185.

    clay

    @balconesfault: A Google search tells me that Killer Mike’s deal is that he believes black people should arm themselves to protect them from police. I’ll give him credit for actually having a valid reason to buy into the “guns protect us from government tyranny” shtick that the gun-humpers spew. But if he thinks that having a gun makes a black man LESS likely to be shot by police, he seems sadly mistaken.

  186. 186.

    trollhattan

    @Citizen Alan:
    Turtle’s successful SCOTUS ploy will haunt us for decades. Perhaps the greatest political theft of my lifetime. “Let the voters decide.” Uhhh….

  187. 187.

    Yutsano

    @Mnemosyne: It’s definitely a powerful message, but one would hope only the students were wearing them. This is their movement. Let’s let them have their own symbols here too.

  188. 188.

    Baud

    @Mnemosyne: It’s kind of a dumb meme because now Rubio can accept more money from the NRA and the value he places on each dead kid’s life will go up.

    Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rubio wouldn’t try it.

  190. 190.

    trollhattan

    @clay:
    Moar guns can never be the answer, although I certainly understand the sentiment from the community that has the most prominent targets painted on them. With the NRA dream of every person having a gun realized, there will never be a pause before pulling the trigger and the rich will always be better armed and in charge of law enforcement.

  191. 191.

    Brachiator

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There’s a lot of really over-the-top hate for David Hogg, too, I think because he’s the opposite–he’s a white boy who looks like he should be a loyal junior right-wing bro, and he’s on the other team.

    He reminds me of David Byrne of the Talking Heads.

    I think you are right about why the gun nuts hate him. They also hate that all these kids are smarter than they are, and have their shit together.

  192. 192.

    Millard Filmore

    @Gelfling 545:

    I spent yesterday whispering half- believed prayers to the universe that no armed asshole would shoot somebody at a march. Praise be to whomever, it didn’t happen.

    A while ago some Republican legislator in Florida said we don’t need gun control laws because thoughts and prayers would keep the evil away. And by golly you are showing me that he is right! Your thoughts and prayers kept the evil shooters away.

    So we also don’t need laws that outlaw abortion, since thoughts and prayers will be enough to eliminate that problem.

  193. 193.

    Dave

    @celticdragonchick: That Rod Dreher has the chutzpah to call anyone out for being “filled with righteousness and certainty, and stone-cold purity” is just amazing. Didn’t know he had it in him.

  194. 194.

    lamh36

    @dmsilev: hmmm…see my comment above (@lamh36: ) about the “divide and conquer” strategy… I see happening right now…and apparently it’s on the left and the right?

    David Hogg is being presented as the “bad” seed, while Emma G is being portrayed as being the “good” seed. As if they both aren’t of the same mind…

    Also notice too, that there are more than these 2 students from Parkland “leading” this movement, but David and Emma are the easier ones for RWNJ/Gun nuts to be crazy about.

  195. 195.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    It’s kind of a dumb meme because now Rubio can accept more money from the NRA and the value he places on each dead kid’s life will go up.

    You seem to assume that this will be the last deadly mass shooting in Florida. I doubt it was even the last one for the month of February.

  200. 200.

    Mnemosyne

    @Millard Filmore:

    Don’t be a dick. She wasn’t the only one wondering if some wacko was going to decide to attack the marchers or cause some other kind of problem (has the Austin bomber already been thrown down the memory hole?) Fortunately, none of them did.

  201. 201.

    germy

    The conservative media and politicians promoting and hosting the most vocally pro-NRA Parkland survivor while condemning the rest as too callow to have an informed opinion kind of gives up their game here, doesn't it? https://t.co/BZiifJIUCz

    — Schooley (@Rschooley) March 25, 2018

  205. 205.

    lamh36

    @clay: Bakair Sellers gets it.

    @Bakari_Sellers
    No. Stop. No. Gun ownership is not the issue. You’re being obtuse. You went on NRATV on a day such as this to make an intellectually disingenuous statement in front of an audience that don’t care about us.

  207. 207.

    Ruckus

    @Lee:
    Better to say we need to replace the 2nd or rewrite the 2nd. Not just repeal it. Because repealing it completely actually opens it up until laws can be written and passed to protect us. And while laws are easier to write they are also somewhat easier to overturn and change. And they can easily be different from state to state. NY or at least NYC has some pretty good gun laws but the surrounding states don’t have the same level so people can go there and get guns, which is what happens a lot, defeating those laws.
    We can’t just repeal the 2nd, we need to have nation wide gun laws and control. Some, as shown above think that the second is good enough but it should be obvious that it isn’t or we wouldn’t have these issues. But the 2nd is an anachronism because the world it was written for no longer exists, guns are far different, there are far more people and the vast majority do not depend nor do they need to depend on a gun for survival. In fact it’s the opposite, the vast majority need to fear a gun for survival.

  209. 209.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    It’s not just a Parkland thing now — people on the other side of the country were wearing them, too.

    The march took us right past the back entrance of the Grand Central Market, but we decided to keep going to the end point at Grand Park and then take the train up to Olvera Street for lunch. ?

  211. 211.

    Dave

    @celticdragonchick: He’s probably the public personality or small grasping authoritarian pseudo-intellectual if you prefer who grates on my nerves the most out of proportion to his actual influence.

  218. 218.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jay C:

    After God-knows-how-long (lifetimes, probably) of wallowing in self-reinforcing right-wing media where belligerent gunhumping is presented as the only “normal” attitude for “Real Americans ™” to have, it has suddenly been brought home to them that Second Amendment Absolutism is not only NOT the majority opinion in this country, but that “gun-control” (broadly defined) advocates ARE: and comprise masses of “ordinary folks”, not just the freaks/hippies/radicals/commies/atheists/weirdos the NRA and its tawdry propaganda have tried to paint them as.

    Yes, this, and these conservatives really cling to seeing themselves as the victims in any debate.

  219. 219.

    Immanentize

    @MattF:

    completely off the reservation

    This is really not a very nice phrase. I hope you can avoid it in the future? It is one that really grates American Indians, doncha know.

  222. 222.

    Immanentize

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    The number of judges and justices are set by statute.

    This is one of my favorite improbable fantasies. If, in 2020, the Democrats were to take the Presidency and get to veto proof majorities, an 11 person Supreme Court would be the ultimate positive action. Call it the Merritt Garland Justice Act.

  223. 223.

    Ruckus

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    $176,000/17=$10,353 per student.
    I get that there are a lot more victims over all and therefore the amount of $1.05 per may be applicable (that’s 167K victims) but otherwise I don’t get the point…….other than to Rubio, each of those kids lives might only be worth $1.05. We used to say someone’s life isn’t worth a plugged nickel. It might be a better metaphor these days.

    ETA should have googled it first and saved all of us, the story is right there. And seeing it that way is realistic.

  226. 226.

    Jay C

    @Ruckus:

    Wasn’t the $1.05 figure the amount Marco Rubio was supposed to have gotten from the NRA per vote in his last election? $3MM for 2.8MM votes, or some numbers like that??

  227. 227.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:
    Don’t we as a nation already have more guns in circulation that population? Of course the disbursement is rather lopsided and the gun humpers really, really want it that way. What would they be like if they thought that “other” people could shoot them, get the draw on them, hunt them down, mass murder them? What would be next, a M1 tank in every garage, an M50 mounted on the roof of the Civic?

  228. 228.

    Ruckus

    @Jay C:
    Here’s the best explanation that I found.
    “The figure is their calculation of what each Florida student is worth to the Republican senator; they came up with it by dividing the amount the National Rifle Association has spent to support Rubio’s campaigns, $3.3 million, by the 3.1 million public and private students in the state. Since Rubio’s first senate bid in 2010, the NRA has spent about $1 million to support his campaigns, and $2.3 million to attack his opponents, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.”

  229. 229.

    Immanentize

    @MattF: I figured as much. I used to say that and got called on it publically by a tribal judge. Lesson learned with the mark to prove it!

  232. 232.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    I think he was being sarcastic. Not towards the commenter but towards exactly the same message as the posters at the march, thoughts and prayers are exactly that, they don’t stop bullets, especially after they leave the barrel.

  237. 237.

    Raven Onthill

    @Cermet: in the language of the Second Amendment, it was the militia was to be regulated, like regular military. Not the weapons.

    (“Well-regulated militia” is from Andrew Fletcher, a 17th-century Scots republican, who also criticized the “ordinary and ill-regulated militia.”)

  238. 238.

    germy

    Poem from the 1920s:

    Razors pain you;
    Rivers are damp;
    Acids stain you;
    And drugs cause cramp.
    Guns aren’t lawful;
    Nooses give;
    Gas smells awful;
    You might as well live.

  239. 239.

    Gretchen

    Good comment on Dreher’s piece:
    « Oh, spare us, Rod. Your role in issues where you have potential agreement with the blue tribe isn’t to build coalitions, it’s to wait until someone says something that offends your sensibilities and then pose dramatically. Which, hey, your gig, but I’d appreciate dropping the pretense that you were on the fence.« 

  242. 242.

    Zinsky

    @Raven Onthill: The 2nd Amendment is a vestige of racism. It was enacted to legitimize and preserve the “slave patrols” that Southern slaveowners used to suppress and put down slave rebellions. Keep in mind that slaves outnumbered whites by considerable margins in many Southern states. The slave patrols allowed the outnumbered whites to leverage the power of arms and horses to overcome the odds and keep the more numerous black people fearful and cowed.

  243. 243.

    Lee

    @Ruckus:

    Better to say we need to replace the 2nd or rewrite the 2nd.

    It is the same process either way so we might as well repeal it and be done with it. That way it won’t ever be open to creative interpretation again.

  244. 244.

    WhatsMyNym

    @Raven Onthill: “…the right of the people to keep and bear Arms…”
    Which arms? They couldn’t imagine the weapons that we have today. Then you have to look at the meaning of “to keep and bear Arms” in relation to well regulated militias. It does not mention hunting or any other use of Arms accept with Well Regulated militias.

  245. 245.

    Aleta

    This is from a NYRB article about Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz’s book Loaded :

    (The Second) Amendment was written with militias in mind, (Dunbar-Ortiz) says, but, during and after the colonial era, just what were those militias? They were not merely upstanding citizens protecting themselves against foreign tyrants like King George III. They also searched for runaway slaves and seized land from Native Americans, often by slaughter.

    Loaded quotes former Wyoming senator Alan Simpson: “Without guns, there would be no West.” But in this sense, the West began at the Atlantic seaboard, where settler militias were organized from the seventeenth century onward. Before long, members could collect bounties for the heads or scalps of Native Americans—an early case, incidentally, of the privatization of warfare.

    When the thirteen colonies declared their independence, one grievance was the king’s Royal Proclamation of 1763, by which the British, fretting over the expense of sending troops across the Atlantic to fight endless Indian wars, placed land beyond the Appalachian-Allegheny mountain range off-limits to white settlement.

    Many well-armed settlers, however, thirsted for that land and crossed the mountains to take it. Among them was the eager young George Washington, who went on to make a fortune speculating in land far to the west of coastal Virginia where he had been born.

    As settlement expanded across the Great Plains, US Army troops took over the job of suppressing the doomed Native American resistance, but militias had long preceded them.

    The militias also kept slaves in line. Dunbar-Ortiz quotes a North Carolina legal handbook of 1860 on such duties: “The patrol shall visit the negro houses in their respective districts as often as may be necessary, and may inflict a punishment, not exceeding fifteen lashes, on all slaves they may find off their owner’s plantations…[and] shall be diligent in apprehending all runaway negroes.” If a captured slave behaved “insolently” the militia could administer up to thirty-nine lashes.

    Some militias, such as the Texas Rangers, did double duty, both seizing land and hunting down escaped slaves. After the Civil War, when the South was still awash in guns and ammunition, militias morphed easily into the Ku Klux Klan—and into private rifle clubs; by 1876 South Carolina alone had more than 240.

    Dunbar-Ortiz comes, she tells us, from rural Oklahoma, the daughter of a “proletarian cowboy.”

    (The book discusses more than militias.)

  248. 248.

    Matt McIrvin

    @celticdragonchick: If I’d gotten Rod Dreher to call me a disgusting little creep at the tender age of 17… well, it probably would have hurt then, but before long I’d cherish it as one of the greatest achievements of my life.

  253. 253.

    andy

    Watch out, gunfondlers, Emma Gonzales is coming to take all your guns and your girlfriends!

  254. 254.

    chopper

    @debbie:

    good luck with that shit. yeah, let’s try to push around some kids who literally survived a massacre. that’s easy pickins, amirite?

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