I really, really hope that people are watching how the Parkland kids are just shredding the gun nuts and the right wing extremists, because it really is an object lesson in how to get things done. Again, it’s a long battle, and very little has changed legally, but laws always follow public attitudes.
At any rate, their recipe for success is simple, but most of all what they are doing is throwing out the old rules. In the old way of doing things, liberals put forward a watered down version of their agenda, and signal they are willing to compromise before the game even starts- “we can all agree on common sense gun laws.” And then we learn, that no, we can’t all agree on common sense gun laws, and they take the weak opening position and push back against it. Then we get distracted, bullied, and allow them to muddy the waters with discussions over clips v. magazine and other gunhumper bullshit, all wrapped around the axle because we let them set the terms of the debate.
Not these kids. They have clear messages that haven’t been muddied by technocratic bullshit- “My friends got shot and there are too many fucking guns and we’re going to do something about it and we’re going to go after people who won’t.” The end result, obviously, is legislation, but these kids are not pushing specific laws- they’ll let legislators do that.
And it is working. A clear message, the moral high ground, and inclusive approach, and most importantly, not taking any shit. Someone throws bullshit at them, they turn it back around and amplify it on their target. See also, Laura Ingraham. And when they get minor victories, like the weak laws that passed in Florida, they don’t celebrate, they nod and get back to going after the motherfuckers who keep putting guns on the street.
It’s a goddamned breath of fresh air. I don’t know if it is because they are young and fearless, because they are smart and social media savvy, if it’s because they have great parents and teachers, or if because being shot at brings one a clarity of purpose, but it’s probably all of the above. We all could learn something from these kids, because the NRA and the frothing wingnuts sure are- the old rules don’t fucking apply any more.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
That’s from a by-gone era Cole. History and truth have “gone away”.
/Trumper
Lapassionara
Yes. Something about seeing your friends die, hearing screams of the wounded and terrified, being in the equivalent of a six minute twenty second firefight, has given these kids the kind of language they need to state the problem clearly and without equivocation.
They have given me hope.
trollhattan
It’s an interesting point in history, because the media decentralization that the wingers have used to their advantage is suddenly turning on them. I can only hope this movement has legs and the pivot has permanence, because the pushback against the kids is going to be fierce and much of it, hidden.
The media during the civil rights and Vietnam era were in lockdown and those voices were stifled to a significant degree. At no time did young protesters have anything like a majority of public opinion on their side. This feels different, although it’s early days, very early.
Tbone
These kids are so good, they’re even getting the faux news geniuses to do their work for them – the genius are now boycotting the sponsors that dropped ingrhams show.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
Also, A-fucking-men. These kids, who are only 5-7 years younger than I am, know what to do. This seems to be a winning strategy that we should emulate. Take no prisoners because you can’t compromise with evil and crazy. You just can’t.
eric
I think there is something else playing into this: young people today know that the “system” is rigged against them given the expense of a college degree to get a modestly good paying job. They are not optimistic that the “system” can fix anything, much less the gun violence brought about by the “system” allowing immediate access to killing machines. I think young people are hungry to make a difference for themselves. This could be the beginning of more energized political involvement. If they win, I am comfortable thinking they are in it for the long haul.
lumpkin
I hope this leads to a broader movement that eventually includes all the other issues we adults have punted to these kids.
Cheryl Rofer
I agree, John. We need to be thinking about how we olds conduct ourselves and can support the Parkland students. They’re doing a great job, but they will need followon.
Obviously, get out the vote, and emphasize how Republicans are hurting the country.
Trump supporters like that he “says it as it is.” We have to start doing that too, along with the students.
I disagree a little that Democrats have caved too easily. They have been working from a model in which both sides act reasonably similarly. The Republicans have taken advantage of that. Democrats need to be quick to call BS when Republicans aren’t dealing in good faith. They need to clean up their house with regard to campaign contributions at the same time they call the Republicans on their ownership by the NRA, Kochs, and others who just want all the money.
MomSense
They are wonderful, no doubt, but I think there is more to this than just their skills. This is happening with an incredibly energized opposition that has been mobilizing in special elections, town halls, airports, and demonstrations since January 2017.
There’s also a bit of the Rosa Parks phenomenon. She was not the first woman to refuse to move to the back of the bus. They had been trying to get that bus boycott started for some time. She was the person that the larger we could see and from whom we could receive the message of injustice.
There has been so much good organizing on gun violence for years but we had to be ready to accept this message. What pleases me is that these kids have the presence to recognize that their reception (not by he haters) has a lot to do with their privilege and they are making an effort to be intersectional.
PaulWartenberg
I’ve said it before: the gun nuts just fucked with the wrong high school.
MomSense
@eric:
Actually I think they are showing a lot of confidence that the system can work if we work the system. They are organizing their peers and supporters to hold town hall meetings in every congressional district. I think they recognize that our system is being corrupted by corrupt politicians and that we need to restore integrity to our institutions.
eric
@MomSense: I think they have learned how to go around the system — write your congress person, go to meetings, organize at union halls. they are much much more sophisticated about connecting with social media. In many ways we could be seeing the diminishment of the effects of the collective action problem. We saw it in many of the political uprisings as well
Mnemosyne
@Tbone:
I’ve noticed that sponsors that weren’t even on the initial list of a dozen are dropping her, too. It seemed like various PR departments heard about the boycott, looked at their advertising, and decided to be proactive about canceling, which warms the cockles or my cynical little heart.
Schlemazel
I love these kids & I love the energy they have injected into their movement.
But you are wrong about one thing, Cole. They have put forward proposals fro what they want
No removable magazines
Max 10 round magazines (this is still too many but, okay)
No heat dissipating crap on the barrels (forget the formal name for the crap)
Universal background checks on ALL sales.
There may be others but those are the lead. Now the question is, will Dems have the balls to enact these simple, common sense rules if they get a chance? If they don’t or only go part way, what do the kids do?
Bemused senior
They also are harder to counter-attack. The effort to do that so far has backfired because mostly lies or seen as victim blaming.
Baud
I saw the title and thought I could finally go out in public without pants.
Oh well, go kids!
Cermet
As someone who supports the second amendment, I like what these teen’s are doing and especially how they are doing it. Remind everyone that guns are mostly designed to kill people. That the Constitution fully requires gun types, ammo and people to be well regulated; and that is both in terms of what the founding ‘fathers’ thought and our more modern ideas because in this case, they far more closely agree then many other parts that require historical perceptive to properly interpret – control types of guns and ammo levels is fully required by the 2nd amendment – it clearly states “well regulated”.
Schlemazel
@Schlemazel:
Ban bumpstocks – I forgot that one
delk
Funny how these kids make me feel young, happy, and full of hope yet make their detractors feel old, crabby, and full of fear.
Major Major Major Major
@Cermet:
Well, only if you read it.
Kay (not the front pager)
Yes. All of the above. It helps also that they are, or at least seem to be, quite well-off and used to getting what they want if they work for it.
Back in the Dark Ages when I was a high school senior (’67 – ’68) I wrote a paper for my Biblical History class comparing Martin Luther King to Moses. My thesis was that both men were able to lead a revolution of an oppressed people because their privileged backgrounds as sons of prominent pastor and a pharaoh gave them the skills, resources, and self-assurance that most members of their group didn’t have access to. I see the same things at work here, with the addition of white privilege in the case of the Parkland kids. The kids are quite aware of this privilege, and use it explicitly and strategically to advance their objectives.
As I remember that assignment, we were to compare and contrast two Old Testament biblical figures to two contemporary figures. I chose King/Moses, who I characterized as more mainstream, and Joshua/H. Rap Brown, who were more radical. I think the King/Moses argument still holds up pretty well, but I’m not so sure about Joshua/Brown. To be Honest, I don’t much remember my arguments for them. My excuse is, it was 50 years ago. :-/
raven
When we went to DC in Operation Dewey Canyon 3 it was the first time people who had fought a war protested it as well. Tricky Dick and the rest of the country didn’t know what the fuck to do with us. A DAR lady told one of our guys “I don’t think what you are doing is good for the troops”. The simple reply, “We are the troops lady”.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m going with John Paul Stevens on this one.
HeleninEire
“STOP KILLING US” was so powerful that I actually fell down on my knees and cried. Really. Beat that message.
Mary G
I think there was a critical mass of people who were just waiting for the impetus to get up off the couch and do something about gun control, but felt like the NRA would just bulldozer over them, so why bother? The kids were the spark to mobilize them.
It’s amusing to watch the right wing, who are older, sputter over businesses that throw them overboard without a backwards glance. The young demographic has always been preferred and companies can read the writing on the wall that allying with racist gun humpers will cost them money in the future.
My generation, the baby boomers, have been catered to for years, but we are passing into the minority and some people can’t take it. I am grateful that people like these kids will be dominating now.
gammyjill
Gee, I wish I could see our brave Democratic senators and congresscritters out there, too, leading us toward gun control. Actually, I don’t know if I’ll live long enough to see that…
Yarrow
The kids are amazing. I just love them.
gbbalto
@gammyjill: Bernie would be a natural. He HATES guns!
trollhattan
@gammyjill:
Do go on…..
HeleninEire
@Baud: The world is becoming more and more progressive. Soon, sweetie. Soon.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: I think part of their success was the really awesome teacher they have that taught them How to be effective politically long before the gunman struck.
The kids are smart and articulate and had a very special teacher who taught them how to think, and taught them about strategy for change. I think it’s a perfect storm.
Your comment made me thinkabout that old saying “ when the student is ready the teacher will appear”.
Baud
@gammyjill:
I’m sorry to hear about your impending demise.
Schlemazel
@trollhattan:
raising the age to buy to 21 was another that I missed.
The beauty of their demands is that there is very little the ammosexuals are going to get traction against. What they are left with is sliiiiiiippery sloooooooooop” and that has worn thin against the background of hundreds of dead kids
Spanky
I think a lot of the success of the MSD students can be laid at the feet of Jeff Foster, and the widespread speech and theater resources at MSD. Hell, all the resources at MSD. I think that in the immediate aftermath of the shooting a whole bunch of kids got interviewed, the best interviews got aired, those interviewees were interviewed multiple times, and the cadre of kids we hear from now are those “successful” interviewees.
I don’t have kids of my own, but I volunteer a bit at our local HS. The kids are quite similar, unsurprisingly. The best are highly intelligent, highly organized, and motivated. And you can be damned sure the MSD kids are highly motivated in this. They see their window of opportunity and they’ve got it wedged open.
ETA: I think WaterGirl was referring to Mr. Foster.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I guess he* only has a year to live.
*all unhelpful people on the internet are male unless there is evidence to the contrary
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are you one of those who thinks votes get more weight if they’re louder or angrier?
Redshift
@gammyjill:
Politicians and other adults were specifically not put on the speakers list for the March in DC, which was another very good decision. Plenty of them have spoken out and are speaking out in support.
smintheus
Their ability to create, organize and sustain their movement has been admirable from the beginning. They clearly know what they’re doing, they stay relentlessly on message and trust in their strategy, and they’ve also invented new ways of advancing their cause. I’m so impressed with them that I messaged them a while back asking if they’d like to give a talk at my university about their organizing strategy and methods. I think it would really benefit student activists to hear them explain how they took on and defeated entrenched interests. We’ll see if they decide they want to do something like that, given the potential it could be a distraction from their actual organizing.
Redshift
@Spanky: Also, plenty of MSD students were too traumatized to deal with the media and the publicity, and the students we hear are part of a conscious effort to protect them from it.
Redshift
@Cermet: Even Scalia, who believes the “well regulated militia” clause is just a preface and not integral to the amendment, agrees that regulation is permitted and the 2nd does not grant the right to have any weapon anywhere.
smintheus
@Lapassionara: I can say from similar experiences when a few people nearly killed me when I was a kid, you lose all patience with people who want to make excuses, change the subject, and do nothing. It would be crazy not to have complete contempt for them.
Baud
@Redshift:
Fixed.
ETA: Also, too, “believed.”
trollhattan
@Schlemazel:
At this point I’m willing to concede them their slippery slope thingie while I’m standing on the hillside with a barrel of Crisco and a paintbrush. I’m also hiring a camel specifically to poke its nose under their camouflaged tents.
smintheus
@trollhattan: One of the several reasons that the media reaction is different is that the traditional media has a ridiculous amount of respect and admiration for anyone who shows they know how to work the system, especially those who successfully work the media. It’s what Jay Rosen calls “the cult of the savvy”. These Parkland kids obviously have a ton of savvy, and the media will continue to treat them with admiration because of it.
trollhattan
@Spanky:
Clearly this means it’s time to attack teacher unions.
oatler.
@delk: I see T Nugent’s in the news again, “opining”.
Ruckus
Most people actually like their kids and don’t want to see them dead. People hear these kids who might not actually listen all that well to their own and nothing the kids are saying is wrong or even out of line. What they are saying and how they are saying it ring true with a lot of adults. That’s step one.
Advertisers know that sales is the important part but long time sales is even better. They know that the info on what brands are owned by what company and who owns the company is out in the public. They know that brands have died from public campaigns at a time when rapid communications actually wasn’t and what it is like today when it actually is. But even if this is just monetary survival on the part of sponsors, it works. Step two.
Politicians, at least the one’s that aren’t bought, know that votes are important. They know the tide is turning, that kids are now seeing that voting is important to their future and that not voting guarantees that you have no voice. Step three.
All we need now is not to have a major distraction/redirection away from the kids and real change is possible. That and having drumpf work his moronic magic uselessness which brings home the point that we are well past the toxic point of conservative bullshit.
rikyrah
Thread
https://twitter.com/adamdavidson/status/980070648688119808?s=20
Elizabelle
I think we are at peak wingnut. We will see a lot more ugliness in the next few months, particularly as Trump’s legal woes mount, but the tide will be broken.
These guys are sawing off their own branch.
FlipYrWhig
I don’t really get this contrast, though. They’re an activist group. Activists get to get loud and make demands. Politicians often have to get quiet and compromise. I don’t think the way activists are speaking about gun issues has very much to do with how politicians are, or should be. “Democrats” or “liberals” are barely coherent groups in the first place, but there’s no reason why we should be expecting “Democrats” and “liberals” en masse to behave like Occupy, or BLM, or March for Our Lives, etc.
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: I agree.
Ruckus
@Spanky:
So it isn’t just these kids from MSD. It’s kids from all over. Not all kids for sure but enough. That’s why it works because it isn’t just these few kids. They may be leading, and doing a damn good job at it, but it’s because there are lots of motivated, smart, organized kids. One can not be a good leader with no followers, so let’s be sure and give them as many as possible.
rikyrah
Someone posted this and the truth of this hot me like a ton of bricks:
These are Barack Obama’s kids.
Think about it. The first President they really paid attention to was 44.
Their formative years were spent with 44.
They saw his response to Sandy Hook and other shootings. They already know that others have been fighting for them.
They also know that something is very wrong now. They are smart enough to know that.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Not sure if this isn’t a truism in real life as well.
piratedan
yeah, you know why that slope is slippery?
probably because its bathed in the blood of kids from the last two decades because someone wanted to feel the thrill of firing off a boatload of ammo… that’s most likely what made it so slippery.. y’think?
I do agree that the climate for this change has been building, even more so because of the advocacy of Giffords movement and Sandy Hook organizations which appears to be working in conjunction with these kids to get access and a ready influx of common followers that now get infused with all of these awakened kids to the issue.
It does seem strange how we can have a former Congresswoman and the parents of elementary school kids being sidelined by the media as being “irrevelant”, but a bunch of high schoolers are the ones dragging the issue into the light of day and forcing the squirming of those making and supporting the existing policy.
rikyrah
To be honest..
These kids, like the protest sign said..
ARE the answer to the hopes and prayers.
These kids remind me of the Freedom Riders, and the lunch counter protesters of the 60’s
smintheus
@rikyrah: My class of college students, including a few seniors, this week said they had never heard of the “terrorist fist bump” controversy. The oldest of them would have been just starting middle school at the time.
Cacti
Today it was Republican Z-lister Frank Stallone who called David Hogg a “pussy” and hoped that a classmate would sucker punch him.
They’re getting their ass kicked by a bunch of high school kids, and it’s sending them off the rails.
rikyrah
White man attacks Muslim teen in hospital
https://twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/979889335242764288?s=20
RSA
@rikyrah:
The Greensboro Four were 18 and 19 at the time; I’m thinking things might even have been scarier in 1960 for young black men–still teenagers!–violating social expectations and in some places laws.
ETA: I expect you know all this; I’m just expanding a little, following my own thoughts.
efgoldman
@trollhattan:
Slippery slope. If we give up on the second amendment, next thing you know, they’ll be quartering troops.
gbbalto
@rikyrah: Wow, that guard reacted so fast! Excellent response, hope he serves some significant time.
zhena gogolia
@gammyjill:
I don’t know about you, but my senator Chris Murphy has been front and center for a long time.
lamh36
I am loving it all…
but…
I commend the kids for understanding their privilege…and for advocating that the media listen to students of color as well..
ETA: One of the first responses to the students of color from MSD and the next young lady’s tweet I posted, was about how race shouldn’t be a part of the conversation, in regards to Parkland…and yes there are many responses like it when people of color dare mention racial disparity as it pertains to gun violence and gun control
germy
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I was a bit concerned about your comment this morning about “Bill saying something in his dotage…”, then realized you meant Hillary’s Bill, Heh!
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti: wait I thought the new conservative meme is that bullying is bad and these kids are bullies and that’s why there was a shooting.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: if he wrote it I’d watch it.
Aardvark Cheeselog
As I read this, thinking about Ingraham and Hogg, something crystalized for me: the kids know not to feed the trolls.
Ingraham tried to troll Hogg about his college apps and instead of responding to her, he looked to the people who profit and asked, basically, why are you paying somebody to troll us? And it worked.
JMG
I can’t help thinking the success of these teens comes in large part from recognizing their opponents as people who were total losers in high school and who haven’t changed no matter how old they are. When did each of them encounter their first online troll? Age 10, 11? They know the drill better than us olds (I’m 68).
gbbalto
@gbbalto: Also the desk clerk, who reacted instantly, running into the violence, to help the young woman up and get her away from the asshole.
Aimai
@FlipYrWhig: very good! People don’t seem to have any idea what legislators or representatives do or can do.
pluky
@lumpkin: If they succeed in replacing elected officials who won’t pass meaningful gun control legislation with ones who will, expect a lot of other policy changes. Intersectionality — it’s not just about privilege and oppression.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cacti: he then deleted that tweet and protected his feed
to be fair, he might be resting up for his big gig tonight at the Altoona Lanez’N’Sudz. He’s opening for Gennifer Flowers. This could be the start of a comeback!
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, he’s going upscale?
LevelB
I think another piece of this is that the MSM is not yet playing bothsiderism. That is also making a difference.
B.
Another Scott
@Aardvark Cheeselog: Yup.
They know how to keep on message, and they know how Fox News gets its money and power.
Being able to not be distracted is an excellent skill and will serve them well.
Cheers,
Scott.
pluky
@Aardvark Cheeselog: It’s deeper than knowing, it’s reflexive. That and, as you pointed out, they counter not just with a parry, but a precisely targeted riposte.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
So IT. Can an Ultralight Trike fly from Key West to Havana, Cuba in one flight?
Jager
My 18 year old grandson is one of these kids, he is political, he brooks no BS, he knows what he wants. He examed out of high school at 16 (in CA if you can pass the tests, you get a degree not a GED) he is an apprentice plumber, goes to community college at night and takes the classes that interest him, doesn’t care about getting a degree. The contractor he works for loves him and says he is one of the best he’s ever had. The kid is making 22.50 an hour, lives on his own in a garage apartment in Santa Cruz. I asked him why plumbing? He said “The money in plumbing is good and getting better and the work is always going to be there, I’m good at it and I like it. Down the road, when I finish a job, I can take off and climb or go sailing if I want to. The job is a lot more than unplugged toilets, people call Roto Rooter for that.” The kid is doing jacuzzi’s and spas, kitchens, water retention, etc. The plumber he is apprenticing with is a surfer and has surfed all over the world.
raven
@Jager: Do you have a problem with the GED?
SiubhanDuinne
Just got out of the opera and haven’t read any comments yet, but John G Cole, your OP is one of your best ever. Thank you.
(Now to go back to the top and see how many other people said the same thing, better, and earlier.)
Westyny
@gammyjill: You mean like John Lewis and Elizabeth Warren? Oh, wait . . .
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
Got a sudden craving for Nathan’s hot dogs?
;)
Jager
@raven: No, not at all. CA came up with the option a couple of years ago. His older sis has a GED, got it when she was 14 and went to community college got her AA at 16, took a year off and finished at UCLA, she’s getting her masters at Cambridge in England right now. My oldest daughter’s (a school teacher) kids have chosen unconventional paths and she’s encouraged them to do it. Both kids didn’t like regular high school BS and looked at their options with their mom’s encouragement. The other grandparents almost shit a brick over the grand daughters plan. At first! Now they are proud as hell.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: rudimentary googling suggests yes (200 mile range). Rudimentary googling plus artistic license says definitely.
Jeffro
Speaking of old rules – or any rules – not applying: Renato Mariotti is retweeting something from Roseanne Barr, where she is telling the world that Trumpov is somehow ‘freeing children held in bondage all over this world…trafficking rings in high places everywhere’-WTF?
What are Roseanne and her fellow wingnuts seeing in their FB feeds? Do I even want to know?
raven
@Jager: I’m just looking at the CalEd website, I’m all for as many options as possible. I have a buddy who runs an alternative highs school and sometimes, in his enthusiasm for the school, he tends to build up his program at the expense of the GED. I’m sensitive because I have one and my dissertation was a study of GED grads. I wish I could have had the you lady as a research participant in my study!
raven
GO RAMBLERS!!!!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m playing Microsoft Flight Simulator X. It’s taking forever though with a max airspeed of like 78 mph.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: (Also referring to your’s and Betty C’s comments from this morning’s now dead thread) I rarely use Photoshop, I use Lightroom for over 95% of my photos. I only use Photoshop for blending different exposures or panoramas that are too big for Lightroom.
BillinGlendaleCA
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Maybe you should change to a fighter jet.
zhena gogolia
@SiubhanDuinne:
How was the opera? Why did Kelli O’Hara have to be dressed as a rhinestone cowboy to play Despina?
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
They do. To update a slogan from those years, these kids have their Eyes on the Prize.
NotMax
Topic on friends’ computer/tech live 2-hour radio show just underway today is going to be about Facebook and related stuff. They’re currently doing the opening news segment; body of the show usually kicks in about 20 after the hour.
Streaming live on KAOI AM.
Jager
@raven: My daughter is the director of counseling at Pacific Collegiate Charter in Santa Cruz, it’s a 7-12 exam in public charter school. Youngest grandson is a 9th grader. 6 AP classes a day, great student. He’s starting to get itchy about following in his siblings footsteps. BTW one of the smartest guys I know got his GED in the Marines, retired car dealer. A couple of years ago he sold his huge auto auctions to Warren Buffet for big $$$. RT knows more about business law than most lawyers, same with tax law.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@BillinGlendaleCA:
There’s an F/A-18 Hornet in the game. But I wanted a challenge and the afterburner is too tempting to use; you can use a lot of fuel doing that.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: that’s way less interesting than a story where somebody has to fly one of those on that path.
NotoriousJRT
@MomSense:
Agree. Great messengers and energized audiences. Keep it up.
raven
@Jager: Nice! I got mine while on the DMZ in Korea 50 years ago!
NotMax
@raven
Dunno if you’re aware that, unlike then, there is also an an amusement park there now?
Jay
@Jeffro:
Cray Cray Democrats are pedo slave trader cray cray,
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/roseanne-barr-promoting-deranged-conspiracy-theory-about-top-democrats
BillinGlendaleCA
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I know, I’ve been using Flight Simulator since the mid-80’s.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: I taking two side dishes, a potatoes spiced with mustard seeds and green chillies and a roasted eggplant and tomato raita. So thanks for your suggestion.
schrodingers_cat
@Jay: No need to give that crackpot more publicity.
delk
@raven: I went to Loyola, my husband teaches there, and my father drove a Rambler. ;-)
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
What’s so special about that flight path?
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Yum.
And yum.
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
And cotton candy! Yes, I adored this production. Over my lifetime I’ve seen, at a conservative guess, at least half a dozen different stagings of Così and this one is by far the best of the lot! Sparkling and over the top in a good way. I loved it.
Obvious Russian Troll
@Jeffro: I think this is a reference to the new and improved pizzagate:
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qanon-4chan-the-storm-conspiracy-explained.html
Jager
@raven: RT struggled like crazy in school and the marines told him he was dyslexic. He said it was a relief to find out he wasn’t just a dumb shit because he had trouble reading. He memorized his way through school, dropped out and joined the Marines at 17, he got out just before the shit hit the fan in Vietnam, he did participate in that little dust up in Laos in ’62-63.
.
BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: I don’t think the amusement park was there when I was last there 20 years ago, but the memorial park* was. It’s actually a few miles from the actual border.
*The first 13 pics are from the memorial park, the rest are from Panmunjam on the border.
raven
@Jager: Yea, I was just a loudmouth punk who got in enough trouble to have the judge give me the choice of Juvy or the Army. . . on my 17th birthday (which, by the way, is also the Marine Corps Birthday). I got to go to Korea and Vietnam and get out 2 months shy of my 20th.
joel hanes
They have claimed the moral authority imposed on them by events.
This is perhaps one of the moments at which the great wheel turns at a touch.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: the story that would require such a low, unorthdox flight along that route would be the interesting part. Especially if it was set some years in the past.
Washburn
SInce the thread downstairs is dead – deBoer posted this:
“Since this has come up – I am not writing a pro-race science book. I am writing a book that, among other things, is anti-race science. It unequivocally rejects the idea that different races have inherent differences in intelligence. Whatever you might think of me or my project, I have denied racist pseudoscience my entire political life, and that has not and will not change. Find a different angle of attack.
I am once again in trouble for things I haven’t said and don’t believe.”
Jager
@raven: RT got back with his company to Pendelton, he’d been the CO’s clerk for a couple of years, his captain got promoted and asked him what he wanted to for his last year in the Corps. RT told him he wanted the easiest clerk job in the Marines, his boss got him a slot in the divisional JAG office. he had a lifer E-8 for a boss, when he got his work done the old lifer would tell him to get lost, “if your ass is in that chair and my boss shows up, I’ll be the one in trouble” RT spent his last year in the Marine hanging around on the beach.
Jay
@schrodingers_cat:
It’s not just Rosanne, it’s all over the “right”,
And that’s the “problem” with Redshift’s “challenge” with modern American Conservatism.
Scratch even the “sane” ones deep enough, and you’ll find they believe, deep down in 4Chan anomamous hoaxes.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Like a spy thriller during the Cold War or something?
SiubhanDuinne
@zhena gogolia:
I loved this production. See my comments to NotMax @ #110.
The rhinestone cowboy was just for the fake wedding scene. Mostly Kelli O’Hara’s Despina was costumed as a motel maid/housekeeper. But she was “Doctor Magneto” (or something like that) in the Act One finale, and as a Texas rootie-tootie cowboy JP at the end of Act Two. I thought it was because Despina would do anything for a buck, never mind how silly.
As you know, I love opera as an art form. But I’m the first to admit that opera plots are mostly very silly indeed, and Così fan tutte is among the silliest (not to mention one of the most problematical in terms of depiction of women). While this staging didn’t erase those concerns, it did minimize them — at least for me — and placing the action in a setting (Coney Island) where suspension of disbelief is already a requirement oddly made the operatic plot more believable.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Jay:
I’m so glad Roseanne got rewarded by a major network with a sitcom.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: roughly, yes, though I don’t see why you couldn’t write it up through now, given the state of relations. And some old Soviet-era friends of Putin’s who might still be around. And the location of the winter palace.
Jager
@Jager: Gotta leave for Champagne on Main, while Mrs J wanders around, Anze the Dog and I are going to park our asses at Leashless Brewing Company and watch hoops.
Jay
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
We’ll see if she keeps it.
I’m not gonna watch.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
To add something interesting to the story, bad weather could play a factor.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Jay:
I wonder why the hell John Goodman and the others want anything to with this nut. Besides the money.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: clearly.
Jay
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Yup, Dan should have stayed dead.
Doug R
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Thought those ultralights usually flew at about 35-40 mph? Still 106 miles at 40mph, you’d need to carry about 3 hours fuel.
I see a rotax engine gets you 4 gal/h at 80 mph, so you’d need to be able to carry about 6 gallons.
J R in WV
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Where did you take off for you flight to Cuba? Where in Cuba did you head for? Did you check the wind speed and direction versus your air speed/ground speed before you planned your escape flight to Cuba?
When we flew recently the in-flight entertainment screen had both airspeed and ground speed in MPH and KPH, it was interesting to see how much a 127 mph tailwind did for travel time headed east from LAX. In an ultralight you could have effectively zero ground speed on a really windy day. Which would NOT get you to Cuba, ever.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
I do hope that adults who are (rightfully) getting mad that the MSM keeps turning to the primarily white and upper-class kids of Parkland keep their ire directed at the MSM and don’t start blaming popular spokespeople like Hogg or Gonzales for something that’s out of their control.
ealbert
I don’t want to ban bump stocks, I want to ban semi-final automatic rifles. We banned automatic rifles (I know you can have them with a special licence), and the gun manufacturers changed them a little and said “these are only semi-automatic”. But if you can have them be the same as automatic by adding on a bump stock (or maybe just a rubberband), then the have not made a gun that is not automatic. Until the gun manufacturers make a semi-automatic that can’t easily be converted back to an automatic, I want semi-automatic rifles banned. We have laser pointers, and if someone points them directly into someone’s eye,the can do damage but otherwise they are safe. We would never allow someone to sell a laser pointer if it could be converted to an industrial laser by covering some port with a piece of tape. Why do we allow the equivalent with rifles?
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@J R in WV:
Key West, Florida to an airport near Havana. And no I didn’t check wind speed or direction. I am making progress though in 40-50 mins I’m halfway through my 8 gallon fuel tank.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Doug R:
I think the fuel tank has an 8 gallon capacity.
Frank Wilhoit
“…most of all what they are doing is throwing out the old rules….”
This is what we all need to do: starting, most importantly, with the shameful, disgusting, and corrosive pretense that the 1787 Constitution is still in force, viz. that any of the institutions that it (inadequately) defines would be able to assert their prerogatives if push came to shove.
gammyjill
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, of course not. All I’n saying is that the young people are fearless and I wish our elected officials would have as much courage.
Amir Khalid
@Major Major Major Major:
A question regarding the Second Amendment: when did a government at any level in America — federal, state, local — last officially moblise a militia of armed citizens?
J R in WV
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Well, here we are, several hours later!!! Did you make it? Did you run out of gas looking at the Cuban coast in the middle distance?
Anxious friends want to know!!!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@J R in WV:
Late reply. I saved that flight. Am now preparing to make a cross country flight in a Mooney Bravo across Australia, Brisbane to Perth.
chopper
@Redshift:
believed, past tense. just your weekly reminder that that hack is still fuckin’ dead.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: Google finds various headlines from the NYTimes. e.g. this one from June 6, 1930:
That’s all it says, though (the article apparently isn’t digitized).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
barb 2
@raven:
The troops returned from Vietnam and told us what was really happening. San Jose State was one of the anti-war leaders. The University was hated by RayGun and Nixon. How dare the Vets get college paid for by Government (GI Bill) and then protest against the war?? Bumper stickers all over the Bay Area –“USA Love it or Leave it” Aimed at the dirty college students and Hippies.
Our classmates, the Vets, came back really messed up. I was in Grad School with quite a few of the Vets and some would share. A few returned as hardened conservatives — very few.
My dad was still in the Military when I was in college — he was a hardened Republican and yet he turned against the war because of what he saw. The turning point for him was probably when a squadron of planes (prop not jets) was sent to take out water buffalos. That was too much to take for some of the men. Some Vets returned and then spread the lies about being spit at etc. That never happened. That was a myth.
There were protests in Oakland — when the new draftees were bussed in before heading out for basic training. Those poor guys — all wide-eyed, in their civilian clothes. I saw them because I was with my mother — going to the on-base PX and Commissary. The buses were all lined up and we drove by the protestors. I still have a clear picture of the boys in the bus and the protestors on the sidewalk with their signs. At the time I was probably the only anti-war student in high school. Now my many of my classmates seem to think that they were also brave enough to have spoken out so long ago. Oh well — old age and memories.
In my neck of the woods during the Vietnam era — Vets took the anti-war protest lead (often behind the scene). I knew it was bad — from my father’s stories. I’ve seen Vet-classmates jump in terror when they were approached from behind and other behavioral tells to know that these have walked through a hell that no human should ever be put through.
There were new rules back then — but the bad guys twisted and lied and who the hell knows what all happened. Nixon and then RayGun the two major villains of the last half of the 20th century. Now we have the Orange Fart — and the evil extreme and kids will lead the way — the major difference is social media — and babies are learning to use it right now. They are watching and learning — their peers are everywhere.
Yea for today’s students and the fact that they are showing to way for the next generations!!!!
The Simp in the Suit
@Redshift:
I had not realized that. Thanks.
The Simp in the Suit
@Jeffro: Whatever happened to Rosanne’s Hitler-homebaker with the burned “Jew cookies”? Has the MSM picked up on this?