Freddie deBoer emailed me about DougJ’s post the other day, and wants to state emphatically he is not writing a pro race-science book:
Since this has come up – I am not writing a pro-race science book. I am writing a book that, among other things, is anti-race science. It unequivocally rejects the idea that different races have inherent differences in intelligence. Whatever you might think of me or my project, I have denied racist pseudoscience my entire political life, and that has not and will not change. Find a different angle of attack.
I ate too much for dinner and am now going to go back to lying on the couch, moaning, and holding my belly. Although there are still some deviled eggs left.
Schlemazel
I hope he proves our first impressions wrong but I have never been an optimist in all my life and this is not the circumstances that would induce that change in me.
Baud
I’m glad to hear he will be offensive in a race-neutral way.
geg6
@Baud:
My thoughts exactly. But I’ll wait and see what he actually produces. Color me a bit of a FdB skeptic.
NotMax
Uh-huh. Awfully vague qualifier there. Meanwhile, the track record speaks for itself.
efgoldman
Whatever he writes will be about five times as wordy as it needs to be, boring, unreadable, and tell some groupd of Dems/progressives that thare dewing it WRONGG!
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I thought we always are, that’s what makes us Dems/progressives.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
I’m actually willing to wait until it comes out before criticizing it.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
The blurb also said he would be criticizing “gender essentialists,” so I’m guessing it will be more about attacking feminists for not being as good at being feminist as Freddie is. Again.
ETA: I tend to think that gender essentialism is dumb and overly narrow, but I have a feeling that a lot of women researchers are going to get labeled as “gender essentialists” who actually aren’t, but they disagreed with Freddie, so they must be gender essentialists.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: Me too, but I am comfortable preemptively saying that I agree with efg in one respect: it will have 30% too many words.
Baud
@Roger Moore: Well, fine. We’ll wait and see.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: I don’t see how you get that from a blurb that says somebody will be criticizing “[the theory that there are certain universal, innate, biologically- or psychologically-based features of gender that are at the root of observed differences in the behavior of men and women.]”
randy khan
@Ruckus:
Yeah, WaPo’s lead story today is “Dems in disarray, imperiling chances to win House.”
Ohio Mom
Whatever, the world does not need another book on this topic. It’s been done to death.
randy khan
His track record is not encouraging, but I’m willing to wait and see if his response here is consistent with what he’s actually writing.
rikyrah
Glad that you had a good dinner, Cole ?
JPL
Hopefully Freddie proves Doug wrong, but it’s still a wait and see.
As far as a food coma, the mutt Finch, was allowed to lick a platter that had contained the roast beef clean. He plopped himself on the sofa with legs straight in the air. I think that’s dog for I’ve experienced heaven or the resurrection or something.
edited … the beef was removed.. just the drippings
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Because it’s Freddie, and he has a track record. I suppose that theoretically he has gone 180 degrees from all of his previous writings and no longer thinks that feminists are what’s wrong with feminism, but I take leave to doubt it. I guess we’ll have to wait and see but, for me, he long ago used up any benefit of the doubt.
kdaug
Can’t just keep your mouth shut, can you Fred?
Ohio Mom
Also, um, Cole, do we have to worry that the huge meal you just ate is going to set off your pancreas, or gall bladder, or whatever it is that’s been malfunctioning? We need you here!
PeakVT
Find a different angle of attack.
You don’t follow Will Rodger’s advice often enough.
Neither does Donald Trump. Think about it.
kindness
Freddie can suck eggs. He still thinks he is somebody.
Bostondreams
Off topic, but loving this live Jesus Christ Superstar on NBC!
Frankensteinbeck
@randy khan:
And that has been the story before every out-of-the-park hit special election for the last year. They just KNOW it’s not possible for anyone to actually care about policy or helping people or good government.
raven
It’s like all this Sullivan shit, I never cared and don’t care now.
Mnemosyne
@Frankensteinbeck:
To be fair, a lot of the special elections haven’t been out-of-the-park hits. They’ve been the bloop fly ball that manages to drift over the fence at the last second.
NotMax
@Frankensteinbeck
Yup. If winning=disarray, am on board for a helluva lot more array to be dissed.
JPL
@Bostondreams: What topic? I just put it on a few minutes ago, because I watched Call the Midwife.
efgoldman
@Roger Moore:
If you pre-order it, you can pre-criticize.
Seriously, Freddie has written the same thing the same way for way more than a decode. Why would you expect anything different? It would be like Sully giving credit to HRC.
Aimai
I ate too much of a beautiful meal, too, and now am miserably trying to do a stats problem set and feeling logey and stupid. I basically should just fast. I really don’t function well after meals.
PeakVT
Although there are still some deviled eggs left.
Leftover tyrosalata got me out of bed and downstairs twice yesterday evening. Because feta.
Schlemazel
@Mnemosyne:
That was my point. OK, so lets not judge his work yet but also lets not be surprised when he blathers on endlessly and cluelessly about how liberals have it all wrong and if we would just understand that conservatives have a point we could all do better.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
I hate my relatives. The evil “system” and all those lazy good for nothings on welfare! The Democrats and Republicans need to work together for the Middle.
JPL
@Bostondreams: I tuned in late because most of the live musicals have been disappointing, but this one is different. I’m regretting my decision not to watch since the beginning.
Villago Delenda Est
Well, wait and see, but Freddie doesn’t seem to grok that he’s created his own aura of derp.
schrodingers_cat
@raven: Agreed. Do. Not. Care.
efgoldman
@Aimai:
Took 88 year old MIL for mandatory Easter dinner. Nice place. Not nice enough: even though mrs efg had a confirmed rreservation, they lost it. We waited a long, long time to get seated.
And once MIL gets alcohol in her, she’s a non stop talking machine.
efgoldman
@PeakVT:
I’ve been eating haroses with a spoon.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Back from a family gathering, I take it.
Chyron HR
Translation: “Dammit, they figured me out. Spin, spin, spin!”
Bostondreams
@JPL:
I was worried myself. But it has been so well done.
Washburn
Elsewhere on his blog, deBoer states:
He does raise a point that could be very interesting. There are considerable differences in innate intelligence between individuals. Some people, no matter how hard they work and study just ain’t gonna be that bright. In a world where education and skills are increasingly important and where automation is replacing many low-skill jobs, what is to be done to address these differences?
Shalimar
I am willing to give Freddie the benefit of the doubt on racial topics. I can’t recall any specifically dumb incidents in that field from his oeuvre.
His history with women, on the other hand, is a massively clueless ego-driven clusterfuck and he should avoid all women and any comments on any female-related subject for the rest of his days.
Another Scott
Meh.
He’s still framing the topic in terms of race and intelligence.
Unless he can somehow come up with some rigorous, scientific, definition of “race” other than as a social construct then it’s still just wanking.
Mays in ARPH:
I’ve related the story before about an Ethiopian home health aid we had who exasperatedly muttered under her breath once about “those Africans” – some other aids who were from Nigeria and Ghana…
tl;dr – Freddie is not even wrong.
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Who recognizes he is speculating about what FdB will write.”)
Roger Moore
@efgoldman:
Actually, I don’t know that. I stopped reading Freddie a long time ago, so I have to trust other people to know that he’s unchanged. I don’t think I’m going to change that for his new book, so I’ll probably leave the criticism for people who have actually bothered to read it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Did you explain tire rims and anthrax to them?
geg6
They are killing it on NBC right now. Well done!
I need some peanut butter meltaways to go with this red wine and good entertainment. Good thing it’s Easter.
Doug R
@JPL:
It’s “tape” delayed here on the left coast. Are you saying we should bother?
Ben Cisco
If it’s Freddie vs. the field, I’m taking the field. He’s been consistently bad at this for way too long to ignore. If he surprises me, it will be a pleasant one, and a first.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: @schrodingers_cat: I get the kicking Freddie while he was here thing, but why keep kicking him? He doesn’t matter.
Ohio Mom
@Washburn: Yes, as the old joke goes: about half of all people have below average intellingence.
Freddie could take a step back and consider why he thinks intelligence is the be-all and end-all. That is a value judgement, not some unalterable truth. There are many other human qualities to consider.
zhena gogolia
@Bostondreams:
We were out and missed the first half, but what I’ve seen (since “Blood Money”) has been wonderful.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
inorite
Bostondreams
@Doug R:
Yes. The whole cast is fantastic. And Alice Cooper as Herod will be amazing.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: One thing we can be sure of with FdB is that he will take 100 words to say what could easily expressed in 10 and it will be boring.
chopper
there is nothing freddie boners can write on any subject that is more insightful than what literally anybody else can, even if the subject is himself. everything he writes boils down to “i’m freddie boners and i’m smarter than you”.
zhena gogolia
@JPL:
They had a mega-Broadway star playing just one of the high priests in the “Blood Money.” The bench is really deep.
Schlemazel
@JPL:
I am disappointed in Legends performance, he is not strong enough to carry his part.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: I wouldn’t know the dude if he was sitting next to me.
Mnemosyne
@Washburn:
Oh, hey, ARGB. What a shock that you would pop up to defend your fellow dudebro.
JanieM
@Major Major Major Major: This made me laugh for about five minutes. A few comments earlier you said the book will have 30% too many words. Obviously that’s a gross underestimate. ;-)
Another Scott
@Washburn:
“Citation needed.”
IOW, show me a careful, statistically valid, study that separates “innate intelligence” from upbringing. Be careful if you’re thinking of citing separated twin studies.
Cheers,
Scott.
Schlemazel
@Doug R:
If you are familiar with the material you will enjoy it a lot I think. If you have never heard it you will be very impressed. It is a very impressive work, well written & performed with power here.
Villago Delenda Est
@Washburn:
Donald J. Trump, Devin Nunes, and Ted Nougat instantly come to mind.
Major Major Major Major
@JanieM: oh, I was just quoting Wikipedia so that we were all on the same page.
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
He is writing a book. A book we can suppose will be read and influence some number of people. That should be a concern no matter whether he posts here or not.
GeoWHayduke
DeBoer is a libertarian, therefore YOU’RE THE RACIST!
efgoldman
@Washburn:
No it can’t. if he writes it.
An elephant could fly, too.
Trolling for Freddie. This is new and exciting.
Villago Delenda Est
@Another Scott: “It was the Dukes!”
raven
@Schlemazel: Yea, that right up on top of the list of “concerns”.
FlipYrWhig
He has a Ph.D. in Rhetoric. Who cares what the fuck he has to say about any of these topics? He’s a douchebag gasbag and I wish my brain didn’t have any cells devoted to knowing who the fuck that asshole is.
Ben Cisco
@Villago Delenda Est: Well done.
zhena gogolia
@Schlemazel:
I’m trying not to measure him against Ian Gillan because he’s a different kind of singer. I think he’s doing a good job under the circumstances. But Brandon Victor Dixon and Norm Lewis are superb.
psycholinguist
I thought English majors were supposed to be waiters, but whatever. Never clear to me why anyone with a pulse can be an expert on intelligence, genetics, evolutionary psych (bletch) cognitive sciences. And i did bother to look at the Vita. Calling himself an academic is stretching that rubber band till it snaps.
jl
OK, I’ll take back some of the criticism I made in my comment on the incorrect announcement.
But, to be really useful, I think an anti-race-science book has to directly attack the impression, among innumerate pundits, and many ordinary people who just don’t have the time, or are over awed by math and stats stuff, that the stats in books like The Bell Curve are just wrong. And there is no coherent underlying causal framework to support that bad statistical analysis.That latter is easy to do, since the authors of The Bell Curve, just admit blandly and boldly at times that they are throwing away their own hodge-podge or whatever glop of causal theory exists in the book up to certain point, whenever it gets in the way their preferred policy prescriptions.
so, I’ll withhold judgment. But we don’t need more woolly scattershot think pieces on this. We need an analysis of why and how the numbers and concepts don’t add up in this kind of research. Something like the Goldberge and Manski review of The Bell Curve in Journal of Economic Literature, that is presented in a simple nontechnical way. And the bogus population genetics would be good to attack too, as some commenters above noted.
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Apparently he still matters to Cole.
Schlemazel
@raven:
I have room for many concerns, this does not have to be high up but that does not mean I am going to pretend it isn’t going to cause problems. His work, like “The Bell Curve” could be used to justify racism and require the constant pushback TBC does.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
Correcting myself, he is playing Caiaphas. Still it’s not a huge part so I’m surprised they got such a prominent person to do it. He is so perfect.
Suzanne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
TRUTH. And it will be pretentious and garbled up in pseudo-academic language that doesn’t really say anything.
geg6
@Doug R:
Yes! It’s quite good.
raven
@Schlemazel: Have at it.
eemom
Oh dear. Do you suppose that thread hurt his feelings?
Mnemosyne
@GeoWHayduke:
Is he a libertarian now? I thought he was still claiming to be a socialist or anarcho-syndicalist or whatever it is that left-libertarians call themselves.
Schlemazel
@zhena gogolia:
Agreed, Legend is doing OK, he is not bad just not as good as the original.
In this mornings thread I identified him as my favorite JC in movies. I wore that album out.
Schlemazel
@raven:
I thought that was what several of us were doing, that seems to upset you
Mnemosyne
@eemom:
Given that the thread almost immediately abandoned the topic of his fascinating self and started talking about other things, my guess is Yes.
Washburn
@Another Scott:
Seriously? You’re thinking that everyone can be Steven Hawking, or Judit Polar if they’re raised in the right environment?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Apparently, he is quite tall. Does that help?
@Schlemazel: We, at this blog, give too much importance to people like Sullivan and deBoer. Sullivan once had positions of influence. He no longer does. If we ignore him, he will will go away. If we give him click and talk about him, he will stay around. Freddie? This blog gave him keys. It was a mistake. Let’s not compound it.
eemom
@raven:
Oh no no. It is NOT like that. To be like that, there’d have to be 800 million more threads on de Booboo.
zhena gogolia
@Schlemazel:
Do you mean Ted Neeley or Ian Gillan? Ian Gillan was on the original concept album. He’s my gold standard.
PeakVT
@efgoldman: I find spoons productive. But I have pitas, baked pitas, and other pita-like objects in the house for the four types of dip in the fridge. Tomorrow I will up it to five as I have plans for a big batch of tzatziki. Also, some spanakorizo. Though I’ll eat that with a fork.
Ruviana
@zhena gogolia: I read the first sentence of this and thought, “Oh, no, now Freddie’s going to sing too?” It helped to read on.
raven
@eemom: I sleepy
PJ
@Washburn: The not-so-bright have never had a problem getting jobs in real estate, reality TV, politics, and punditry.
De Boer is a good example – his biggest problem is the fact that he is not the deep thinker he thinks he is, but his brand of entitled male contrarian is, unfortunately, popular enough in a medium given to “liking” hot takes. When he posted here, he was unable to support or defend his positions, and always resorted to whining about being unfairly attacked and making personal attacks on those criticizing his intellectual laziness and obtuseness. (Hmm, I wonder who that reminds me of . . .)
Washburn
@Villago Delenda Est:
I don’t any of those guys worked very hard at anything, though. Sometime douchebaggery is an innate skill.
Jay
Floriduh man move over:
“Stockman’s trial is currently in its second week in a federal court in Houston. And it’s a doozy.
The far-right Republican firebrand is accused of using hundreds of thousands in charitable donations from two conservative mega-donors for personal expenses in what prosecutors call a “white-collar crime spree.” They say he’s used the money to spy on political rivals with Inspector Gadget-style tools, to pay off his credit card debt, to go on dolphin boat rides, and to buy up copies of pop-up Advent books published by his brother.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoints/steve-stockman-wild-federal-fraud-trial
efgoldman
@Schlemazel:
If more than eight people read it. Not likely.
JPL
I’m so glad that Alice Cooper doesn’t have orange hair. That number was amazing.
zhena gogolia
@JPL:
Yeah, he brought it home.
eemom
@PeakVT:
You are sounding like a Greek. But it’s not Easter for us until next Sunday.
Ohio Mom
The irony is that Freddie has first hand experience that brains are unpredictable and very unknowable. He has a serious mental illness. His brain is a challenge to him.
Still, he persists in looking at brains through the single lens of IQ, a measurement that is very limited in scope. It is focused on how a small range of types of information are processed. It is pretty good at predicting how well an individual will do in school but Life is much larger than School.
He is blind to the wild mysteries of consciousness, to all the things about our minds and brains that make their study so compelling.
Ohio Mom
@Suzanne: Whatever happened with those jobs you were considering? And how are the spawns doing?
Quinerly
@JPL: stole the show.
zhena gogolia
They’re killing “Could We Start Again Please” (which has been playing in my head since Nov 2016).
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
That’s quite comical. Does he have a google alert for himself or did he just stumble in it?
@eemom: Happy Pascha next week! I have a friend of Greek descent who told me one day years ago “our Easter is later than yours” when I told her that we weren’t working Good Friday afternoon, because it was an important day to so many people. I later impressed (oddly) a guy when I asked him “when is your Easter this year” because I knew he was Greek Orthodox. I did not understand that knowing that was such an uncommon thing until then.
Washburn
@PJ:
And how many millions of jobs are there in those occupations? I don’t know where deBoer is going with his book – unlike many hereabout I tend to read books before I offer my flaming hot take – but his statement so far suggest that he is going to argue that innate differences, and the outcomes they tend to create, argue for greater socialism.
This isn’t exactly groundbreaking territory. I mean anyone with half a fucking brain recognizes that historical careers in manufacturing, trucking, transport, etc. are disappearing ior have disappeared n this country and that there is going to be a massive problem. I don’t think you have to resolve the question of whether people end up on dead-end jobs because of innate differences in intelligence to recognize that this is a probably the greatest problem facing this country over the next few decades.
Aleta
Angus Johnston (historian at CUNY) has been on twitter the last 3 days about Andr. S’s racism, specifically this time in a new NY Mag piece. A NYT opinion piece on March 23 is related.
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
So, if we don’t talk about him his book will not sell & nobody will use it as a reference? Color me skeptical.
Schlemazel
@zhena gogolia:
Ian, sorry I was not clear. He is the best
efgoldman
@Schlemazel:
Whether we talk about him or not.
Mnemosyne
@Washburn:
Not everyone can be a Mozart or a Picasso even if raised in the right environment, and yet I don’t see all of the same hand-wringing over that reality.
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel: We don’t need to be part of the process of promoting it. And who the fuck ever read him? He is a joke. Don’t we have better things to do with our time?
Schlemazel
@efgoldman:
my point. he has an audience and if there is a chance to use his work to justify racism the book will do very well in certain circles no mater who doesn’t mention he who must not be named.
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, we could always argue about whether we should discuss him or not I suppose
PeakVT
@eemom: Just cooking a bunch of Greek food these days. I’ve been working on dips and sides. Next up is phyllo-based stuff and some mains, maybe next week.
Suzanne
@Ohio Mom: I took one of them—-have been there for five weeks. I am enjoying it so far.
We got shortlisted for a really big project that I can’t talk about yet. I will be the lead architect on it if we win it. The interview is on Thursday, so I’m not counting on doing anything but work for the next four days.
lamh36
@Bostondreams: I am loving it. I’ve never actually seen the musical, or heard the music in it’s entirety…it was well before my time and I wasn’t much into musicals in my formative years.
I came for John Legend, who didn’t disappoit, Sara Bareilles, who sounds great and stayig for the revelation that is Brandon Dixon who plays Judas! That young man should be a superstar
Washburn
@Mnemosyne:
I was responding to Another Scott who asked:
You point about Mozart or Picasso being born with gifts that are not amenable to reproduction solely by nurturing environments is spot on.
Jay
“I don’t think you have to resolve the question of whether people end up on dead-end jobs because of innate differences in intelligence to recognize that this is a probably the greatest problem facing this country over the next few decades.”
LMFAO
As a child of the Reagan Recession, I can glibly inform you that people don’t “dead end” in careers because of intelligence.
The first and foremost thing is to win the sperm lottery,
If you can’t do that, then graduate from school, ( high school, technical school, community college, university), early on in a growth period in the economy where you will have enough time to accumulate work history before the layoffs.
FlipYrWhig
The book is going to be “people are different so that’s why we need socialism to make up for it and not neoliberals neoliberaling because they suck.” Repeated 3500 times and somehow both self-pitying and self-aggrandizing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel: Okay. Let’s freak out about the possibility that the book FdB is writing is going to be racist. That makes a lot of sense. Pragmatic even.
geg6
@Ohio Mom:
I tend to agree with Howard Gardner’s multiple intelligences theory. There are all different types of intelligences from verbal to kinesthetic and traditional IQ tests only measure one or two or three, at most.
Suzanne
I should add that the project will be a really great one. The kind of project that a bleeding-heart liberal like me would just loooooooove to do, as it will be a huge community asset for an underserved, vulnerable population. So plz cross any and all appendages.
Washburn
@Jay:
You’re arguing with something I didn’t say.
PJ
@Washburn: People end up in dead-end jobs because bosses need people to do dead-end jobs. Having a shitty job, or being unemployed, or having an amazing, fun-filled job, or being incredibly powerful and making life and death decisions every day that impact hundreds of thousands of people, throughout history, have mostly had nothing to do with anyone’s intelligence, however you define it. Mostly it’s been about when and where you were born, and to which family, and, where schools existed, which schools you went to and who you met. In other words, luck. Throughout history, the trajectory of most peoples lives has been set before they were adults, and their intelligence played little part in it.
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Who is freaking out? Several people questioned the nature of the book & Freddies intellectual honesty. It has passed now
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: IQ tests, the SAT, etc, largely measure one’s ability to take those tests. I am good at standardized tests. It means that I am good at standardized tests.
geg6
@PJ:
This. It only comes into the equation if you are lucky enough to find yourself in a job/career that plays to your intelligence.
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel: Everyone who is worrying about it is freaking out. IMO. Your opinion may differ.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: How does saying I don’t care, kicking him in this thread?
Amir Khalid
A kwibel: Freddie’s statement is a denial, not a correction. DougJ said Freddie was fixing to write a pro race-science book, and Freddie is denying it.
Since none of us has read the book, we don’t yet know what it will be. If Freddie ain’t wrote none of it yet, one could argue that he himself doesn’t know either. Those of us who read it (so the rest of us don’t have to, I guess) will have to judge what it is. For all we know, it might turn out to present data as viewed from a race science angle, or arguments/conclusions borrowed from race science even as Freddie claims to repudiate it.
On the other hand, Freddie might have developed some intellectual integrity. Hey, it could happen.
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Take another look at Cole’s OP. Even though we often go far afield, it’s what starts/started the conversation. If you think Cole was wrong to bring it up, send him an ALL CAPS email
eemom
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Thanks!
So, this is how it works: the Eastern Orthodox Easter is always after Passover, because that’s when the event is supposed to have occurred. (E.g., the Last Supper was a Passover supper.) Catholics and Protestants just peg the date to the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox — IOW, in purely Pagan terms. The result is a three year pattern wherein one year, the Easters are really far apart, the next year — as in this one — they’re one week apart, and the third year, they actually are the same day.
It kind of sucked when I was a kid. Now, even though I don’t care about any of it, I kind of like the idea that ours is the RIGHT one.
geg6
@Omnes Omnibus:
Agreed. And standardized tests are designed to test for those one, two or three types of intelligences. I’m good at them, too. Killed on the SAT and GRE math and I suck at math. But I’m good at logic and game theory, so I can play logic games to game the tests. I did it even as a kid in the Iowa Basic Skills tests we took in elementary school. So it is obviously an innate skill for me since I knew nothing about logic or game theory then.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I was supporting the view that you and raven were putting forth. When he posted here kicking him was reasonable. Once he left, it became mean. Sorry if I was not clear.
lamh36
If you didn’t watch Jesus Christ Superstar on NBC, you may not know his name, but after seeing it you will want to, and you may be hearing it alot after this!
Brandon V Dixon…as Judas!!! WOW!!!!!
https://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, I guess I see a difference between expressing an opinion and freaking out. What was happening here did not strike me as freaking out. YMMV
JPL
@lamh36: It’s great to have the perspective of someone not familiar with the original one.
I’m at the point where I’m saying, dear lord don’t drop John Legend.
It is April 1st and all.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
He took over the role of Aaron Burr in Hamilton — I wish that were on record!
The man really made an impression tonight!
Ohio Mom
@Suzanne: So, a happy ending to the should-I-change-job story! Congrats.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
The ending was so powerful.
Elizabelle
@Ohio Mom: Excellent comment.
Schlemazel
@lamh36:
There were several very good performances. The guy playing Pilate was doing really well until his big finish & his voice broke. But that is a hell of a number & unmerciful to have to do live.
Elizabelle
@lamh36: Yes. He was marvelous. Great voice and presence.
zhena gogolia
@Schlemazel:
I get the impression he’s more of an actor than a singer. His acting was great.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: No problem.
eemom
I didn’t watch JCS — did they do I Don’t Know How To Love Him? That is a beautiful song.
lamh36
I see you John Legend…going for that EGOT!!!
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
I…uhhh…I could actually get behind this.
J R in WV
I have academically brilliant friends who cannot organize their lives so as to accomplish anything. I have other friends who are not academically brilliant, but who have other talents and an ability to organize complex tasks who successfully accomplish major projects repeatedly.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Cole was fine to bring this up, given DougJ’s earlier post. Cole offered no commentary. I think that FdB is an insignificant person as a public intellectual. I don’t think his blather is worth much discussion. Do you disagree?
sukabi
@Villago Delenda Est: found the flaw in your theory….none of those you cited would ever be mistaken for people who are well educated and devoted to studying.
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, but the OP (any OP) ) is catnip around here.
Corner Stone
@Schlemazel:
I’ve heard he was quite flexible in his role.
PJ
@Omnes Omnibus: To label him an intellectual is to debase the term even more than it has been lowered in the past 50 years. Might as well call Sullivan or Dowd or the Himalayan salt lady an intellectual.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
Pilate, not Pilates
Schlemazel
@JPL:
A friend sent me a link a couple weeks ago to a youtube video that was a compilation of passion plays gone wrong. Crosses falling over, Jesuses falling off & the grand finale was one of a guy they were going to fly to heaven on fires but his robes came apart so he was wobbling overhead in just a diaper.
It is a risk role
Another Scott
@Washburn: Provide a cite, please.
It should be easy if it’s so obvious. Humor me.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@PJ: He presents himself that way.
Jay
@Washburn:
LMFAO,
So, I quoted you inaccurately?
JPL
@Corner Stone: lol
lamh36
As someone who has NEVER seen the orginal and who only vaguely knows a song or two…this was my first real full exposure to any part of the musical #JesusChristSuperstar this is only the 2nd one of these “LIVE Tv musicals” that i really watched from beginning to end!
They had me at @johnlegend and @SaraBareilles but @BrandonVDixon as Judas made me LOVE IT #JesusChristSuperstar
https://media.giphy.com/media/9aPBhThp26KIg/giphy.gif
ETA: Best one of these “live tv musicals” since The Wiz, which i LOVED
Quinerly
Steven Bochco (Hill Street Blues, LA Law) has lost his battle with leukemia.
Schlemazel
@Corner Stone:
a lot of core strength.
He did fine give the challenge. I can’t imagine doing that every night on Broadway
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
I can present myself as the next Packer QB. It’s no more authentic
Felanius Kootea
Maybe Freddie should consider writing a book on stereotype threat, stereotype boost and stereotype lift in the US versus other countries. I’d be interested in reading that (assuming it was handled well).
Schlemazel
@lamh36:
Was Sara Mary? I have no idea who she is but the woman in that role was also amazing. Her part gets some great songs & she knocked them out of the park
lamh36
@eemom: yes… Sara Barielles played Mary Magdelene…she was FABULOUS
Amir Khalid
@Quinerly:
Damn. I have rather fond memories of LA Law. RIP Steven Bochco.
lamh36
@Schlemazel: yep..
efgoldman
@Amir Khalid:
Also Hill Street Blues, NYPD Blue, and others. Among the best cop shows ever.
Washburn
@Another Scott:
No Scott, you are absolutely right. Any parents who provide a most excellent environment can have their child grow up to be Picasso, Stephen Hawking, Mozart, Judit Polgar, etc.
JPL
@efgoldman: I still remember where I was when I watched the first episode of Hill Street Blues. He totally changed network TV.
Omnes Omnibus
@Washburn:
efgoldman
@JPL:
He made David Simon (Homicide, The Wire) possible
Brachiator
@efgoldman: One of the local stations recently re-broadcast a good chunk of the first season of Hill Street Blues. It held up pretty well, and you could see how it influenced a lot of later TV.
RIP, Mr Bochco.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
According to IMDb, he’s the Hamilton actor who read the statement to Mike Pence from the stage after the show Pence attended. I think he plays Burr, which makes sense since LMM has said that Burr was partially inspired by Judas in JCS.
JPL
@efgoldman: He brought David Kelly on board and created Doogie Howser, besides LA Law. Kelly then branched out on his own, but what an amazing career. .
Brachiator
@JPL: A couple of bits from Bochco’s obituary.
Another Scott
@Washburn: It’s clear that you can’t support your claim.
It seems to me that anyone looking at a collection of one week old infants and arguing that they are somehow different in their “innate intelligence” is fooling themselves.
Here’s my view: There’s an awful lot of stuff that people have “known” about “innate intelligence” that is little more than supposition and prejudice wrapped around lazy thinking. For every Ramanujan one learns about, there’s (almost) invariably the availability of advanced materials at a young age to spark their genius or extraordinary abilities. Similarly, people who are taking college-level courses in middle-school (or earlier). Or composing orchestral works at young ages. It’s not all (and maybe not even mostly) “innate intelligence”. Brains are plastic and can absorb a lot more than many of us realize.
Poor nutrition, fear and violence, lack of educational opportunities, lack of interest and time investment by parents and mentors, environmental pollution, and similar things, are very tough to separate from biological factors in humans.
If you want to claim (as you did above) that “there are considerable differences in innate intelligence between individuals”, and want to be taken seriously, then you should be prepared to back up your claim.
/fin
Cheers,
Scott.
divF
@Washburn: Asshole. Pied.
Mnemosyne
All right, Jesus Christ Superstar just started and I already see the difference between this and the previous TV musicals — they have an actual audience. It’s already making a difference.
Amir Khalid
I am saddened to learn, from John Cole’s Twitter feed, of Nils Lofgren’s favourite guitars being stolen from a van parked at a gig venue.
BruceFromOhio
Who?
smedley the uncertain
@JPL: Was absolutely great. Fortunately, spouse and I tuned from the start. Was annoyed at the chopping effect of the commercials…. An emotional high point was reached and without pause they cut to a car commercial. Better management of less commercials maybe or have one big intermission. The cute little thumbnail of ‘back stage ” was useless. The performance and staging from the Armory was superb.
BruceFromOhio
@Washburn:
Sorry to feed it, but BWAHAHAHAHAHA please just stop it already.
Washburn
@Another Scott:
No, you’ve convinced me. Given a healthy diet, protection from fear and violence, good educational opportunities, and involved and motivated parents, there’s no reason why any child can’t grow up to be Stephen Hawking or Judit Polgar.
The idea that there is any innate difference between people’s intelligence an abilities is just hokum.
efgoldman
@Another Scott:
It’s a recently acquired troll
Another Scott
@Washburn: Keep digging.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@efgoldman: Maybe not recent, but yeah. I’m done.
Sorry for contributing to the noise.
Cheers,
Scott.
lamh36
Um… SPOILER ALERT I GUESS?
.
z
z
z
ICYMI: Brandon V Dixon as Judas singing Superstar on Jesus Christ Superstar!!
https://twitter.com/jcsthemusical/status/980641093535465472?s=21
lamh36
@Mnemosyne: It was sooo good it almost made me want to watch it again LIVE with the West coast, but I’ve got work tmrw
Jay
@Washburn:
LMFAO
James E. Powell
@Bostondreams:
The crowd is really getting on my nerves. Or maybe whoever is doing sound is to blame.
The screaming nearly ruined Heaven on Their Minds.
zhena gogolia
@James E. Powell:
I think that gets fixed in the second half. I missed the first half, and in the second half I didn’t hear it as a problem.
Mnemosyne
@efgoldman:
No, it’s not “new.” It’s Amarinthine RGB under a new nym.
J R in WV
@Suzanne:
Good luck, woman, you rock, and will lead your project like the champion you are. Take charge and execute!
How are the spawn? Significant other? All well? I heard the camping trip was less hard core than feared… that’s good too. We’re doing well here, waiting for spring to actually happen, post snowfall.
Jay
“Seventy-five years ago, the Archbishop of Canterbury, William Temple, said, “Socialism is the economic realization of the Christian gospel.”
different-church-lady
@FlipYrWhig:
FdB: Don’t touch me, I’m a doctor.
Judge Maxwell: Of what?
FdB: Rhetoric.
Judge Maxwell: Can you fix a broken metaphor?
FdB: No, sir.
Judge Maxwell: Then shut up!
Jay
https://mobile.twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/979806085656862727
mainmata
@PeakVT: That’s a new Rogersism to me and a good one too! Yes, and o very apt for Trump, isn’t it?
Suzanne
@J R in WV: Spawns are as good as can be expected. Elder cut himself (cut the word “fat” into his leg) about two weeks ago, which is stressing me out. On the plus side, mood is improving steadily, he’s doing things with friends, and both yesterday at the mall and today at church he conversed normally with adults and shook hands and the like. A year ago, that would have led to a massive anxiety attack. Grades are also somewhat improved. And he eats. I am looking for signs of purging, but haven’t seen any.
Can I just say that I fucking hate parenting? I fucking hate it.
Chris Johnson
@Corner Stone:
Yup. Seems like the takeaway is meant to be ‘meritocracy is garbage and a lie’, and I’m profoundly uninterested in the ‘proper color’ for the untermenschen who don’t make the cut. As if them being white or black makes it any better.
The world’s built to cull ‘failure of merit’ and we get… Donald Trump? No way does this work if that’s what we got. I don’t want to ever hear about aspirationalism again. That will take care of itself, and we need socialism to support this global population of organic beings. We have gone way past the point where the typical human being can justify their existence with merit/performance of ANY kind.
different-church-lady
@Chris Johnson:
We have gone way past the point where any human being can justify their existence for damn near any reason at all. We’re entirely unnecessary to this planet, and could be the end of it.
cokane
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to slog thru book-length deBoer. Also, he’s not an expert on biology and not exactly statistically savvy either. I just don’t understand the point of this book.
That being said, it was a grossly unfair attack by DougJ, who unfortunately has induldged in a lot of bad faith, twitterfied arguments about people lately.
Keith G
From the NIH
Not everyone walks into the school door with the same capabilities. In older days, that was thought to be caused by some easily explainable observation, eg: parental neglect. As the National Institute for Health points out it’s not just factors related to a child’s home environment and parenting, education, and availability of learning resources. Genetic factors play a role. Once were internalize the truth of the science, it is incumbent upon us to develop policies that better deal with this reality.
Another Scott
@Keith G: Thanks for that.
The NIH link, and a longer excerpt:
Cheers,
Scott.