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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Russiagate Open Thread: Roger Stone, Soon-to-Be Convict?

Russiagate Open Thread: Roger Stone, Soon-to-Be Convict?

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I’ve said before, Murphy the Trickster God probably doesn’t love me that much. But then, even the wiliest Brer Rabbit eventually loses some speed on his evasive tactics…

… Stone, who has worked as an on-again, off-again adviser to President Trump for decades, vehemently denied Monday that Mueller could be building a case against him based on his contacts with WikiLeaks during the 2016 campaign.

“The fake news media is in overdrive,” Stone, 65, told the Daily News. “This is a wild goose hunt seeking something that didn’t happen.”

Stone’s name has come up at an increasing rate in relation to Mueller’s probe into Russian election meddling and possible collusion with the Trump campaign, according to reports and witnesses.

Informal ex-Trump campaign adviser Ted Malloch revealed over the weekend that FBI agents arrested him and asked him about Stone and WikiLeaks after he recently returned to the U.S. from London. Malloch, who was once considered to become Trump’s ambassador to the European Union, said in a statement that the agents served him a subpoena to appear before Mueller’s grand jury later this month.

Sam Nunberg, another ex-Trump campaign aide, testified before the Mueller grand jury last month — and many questions focused on Stone and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, according to reports.

Mueller is reportedly interested in whether Stone was aware of or in any way coordinated WikiLeaks’ release of thousands of hacked emails from the Clinton campaign. Sources told the Wall Street Journal Monday that the investigators are particularly interested in an email Stone wrote to Nunberg on Aug. 4, 2016, in which he said that he “dined with Julian Assange last night.”…

In another apparent reversal, Stone said Monday that he has never communicated with Assange.

“This is politics. I’ve said a lot of things,” he said. “At the end of the day, however, it’s what you actually did that’s important.”

The special counsel’s office declined to comment…

The Washington Post is skeptical:

… Stone has a carefully cultivated reputation as a “political trickster,” which is a polite way of saying “mudslinger and exaggerator,” which is a polite way of saying “guy who will say untrue things if it advances his agenda.” One of his agendas is his own reputation, and during 2016, he clearly believed that it paid to imply a close relationship with Assange. That was manifested in his public assertions about knowing what WikiLeaks was up to but also apparently in his private conversations with Nunberg and that unidentified aide in the spring of that election year….

The Journal report highlights two key questions, for which we can take a stab at answers.

Did Stone dine with Assange? It’s hard to see how he could have traveled to London and met with Assange at the Ecuadoran Embassy without it becoming public before now — or that Assange would slip out of the embassy, risking arrest, to have dinner with him.

Did Stone have a direct relationship with Assange at all? Even if we think of “having dinner” as a broad way of describing a conversation, this seems unlikely. Stone claimed a relationship with Assange in situations where it might presumably have helped improve his personal standing — talking to Nunberg, talking to a Republican group, talking on Twitter. But in private conversation that neither party had any reason to believe would become public, neither WikiLeaks nor Stone indicated knowing each other. WikiLeaks even dismissed knowing him in a private chat room to which only WikiLeaks participants were privy — only days after the alleged “dinner.”…

Or, if you really want to dive into the rabbit hole, consider Farage, who may have given Assange some data at some unidentified point in time. Farage did meet Trump during the campaign — even sharing the stage at a rally with him in the same month as Stone’s alleged dinner. Who put Farage in contact with Trump?

Stone gave Mother Jones an answer to that question in June: Why, it was him, Roger Stone!

Farage denies this, too.

… “I never dined with Assange,” he told the Journal. There was no such meeting. It’s not what you say, it’s what you do. This was said in jest.” This is the second time in recent weeks that a Trump-connected person has offered this trust me, I was lying defense, following Cambridge Analytica’s Alexander Nix. Both men have been such prolific merchants of balderdash that it’s hard to dismiss this excuse. Stone’s penchant for falsehood is such that he could very well have invented a meeting with Assange to aggrandize himself.

On the other hand, Stone later exchanged Twitter messages with WikiLeaks, as my colleague Natasha Bertrand reported in February. He has also admitted to being in touch with Guccifer 2.0, the hacker who provided the emails to WikiLeaks, though he insists he did nothing untoward. He also defended Guccifer 2.0 as not being a Russian….

…[I]t’s the emails that remain the most obvious place to find collusion: There’s clearly a crime; there’s a connection between the Trump camp, Guccifer 2.0, and WikiLeaks in Stone; and there is the president’s own strange refusal to acknowledge Russian culpability for the hacks. Robert Mueller’s comparative public reticence about the email hacks doesn’t seem like an indication that he lacks interest or information about it—in fact, it may indicate precisely the opposite.

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And a grace note, from out in the balconies. Stone’s hometown paper, the Miami New Times:

Roger Stone, South Florida’s infamous political hit man, is not capable of keeping his mouth shut. He has spent decades on the attack, getting called in when, say, politicians want someone to stage a fake riot or smear the parents of a dead American soldier.

But Stone has now pissed off someone with deep pockets and a similar zest for combat: Guo Wengui, the mysterious, recently exiled Chinese billionaire known in America as “Miles Kwok,” is suing Stone for defamation in Miami federal court after Stone criticized him on InfoWars earlier this year. Guo claims Stone slandered him when Stone accused Guo of funneling money to both Hillary Clinton and Steve Bannon; the billionaire now wants $100 million from the political consultant-turned-media figure.

“Stone has publicly stated that Plaintiff Guo has been ‘found guilty’ and ‘convicted’ of financial crimes in the United States — this is not true,” reads the suit, filed March 15. “Stone has publicly accused Plaintiff Guo of violating U.S. election law by making political donations to Hillary Clinton and financing a presidential run by Steven Bannon — this is not true. Mr. Stone should be held to account for these and other falsehoods about Mr. Guo.”…

“This is essentially a political lawsuit and is a Kwok of Schiff,” [Stone] messaged New Times. “None of my reporting rises to the level of defamation. Mr. Kwok tweeted himself about his support for Steve Bannon’s projects, and now he’s suing me for reporting on it?… While I doubt this meritless suit will ever get to trial, my attorneys are very anxious to question Mr. Kwok about his relationship with both Chinese and American intelligence agencies.”…

Reader Interactions

60Comments

  1. 1.

    Omnes Omnibus

    So the Stone/Assange dinner was on my birthday. I am not sure how I feel about that.

  8. 8.

    Feebog

    I surely hope that when it is Stone’s turn to take the fall it is a long drop with a hard landing. Chtrist, what an asshole.

  17. 17.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Major Major Major Major: They’re all horrible people. It’s as if Trump attracts the very worst miscreants and has unleashed them on the American public. This has got to be as bad as Watergate. Sure feels like it.

  18. 18.

    Marcopolo

    In case it hasn’t been posted, Wisconsin just flipped a Supreme Court seat from right to left. Walker, the NRA & a bunch of other conservative groups threw a lot of cash into the race trying to hold the seat. If you need to read about it check out the DKos front page.

    Good news along with voters in a nearby St Louis suburb turning out to keep a woman who talked about her love for the Confederacy & hatred towards Muslims on social media off of their school board.

  20. 20.

    cthulhu

    It’s behind the paywall but Josh Marshall thinks that the dinner, at that time, was unlikely BUT goes on to point out that this is where Stone’s penchant for over-selling his abilities and contacts is coming into to conflict with his concern to avoid prosecution. He has previously embraced the evil genius persona and now it is getting him unwanted attention. Oh well.

  25. 25.

    efgoldman

    @Patricia Kayden:

    This has got to be as bad as Watergate

    As bad in a different way. Tricksie was all about political malfeasance (and the cover up). Weasel Face is all about pure greed and grift – and the cover up.

  27. 27.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cthulhu: This is essentially correct. However, I’d add that part of the problem here is that Stone will say anything if he thinks it will advance his interests. Everything he says is self serving. As a result he has so many different versions of what actually happened at any given time bouncing around, depending on the audience he’s talking to, that keeping them straight is difficult. He’s finally gotten himself into a position where keeping them straight is of the utmost importance. And his likely inability to do so is going to have serious negative repercussions.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    Does munching on a cold slice of pizza while conversing on Skype count as “having dinner with?”

    Asking for friend.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    As it’s Open Thread –

    If Adam is around, thought he might appreciate this from a while back. The author of the final sentence deserves several high fives.

    It is true that it [the F-35] will be extremely hard to find. This has nothing to do with stealth, however. Rather, its huge price tag and maintenance downtime will lead to very sporadic appearance over enemy skies. At price of 120-145 million USD per aircraft, and sortie rate of one sortie per every two to three days, it will produce 2-4 sorties per every billion procurement USD. Compare to Rafale C’s 22 sorties per every billion procurement USD, F-16Cs 15-20 sorties per every billion procurement USDs and Gripen C’s 44 sorties per every billion procurement USD. This sortie rate is what will make it truly stealthy, both in terms of enemy’s (in)ability to find it as well as in terms of its combat contribution. Source

  32. 32.

    efgoldman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    part of the problem here is that Stone will say anything if he thinks it will advance his interests.

    He’s going to have to think hard about what he’ll say to Mueller’s team under oath, and what info they already have when they question him.

  33. 33.

    Marcopolo

    @Adam L Silverman: Also too, the more in depth piece I just finished said Judge Daller, who was the winner, was the first liberal to win a seat on the high court in 23 years. That’s four years short of an entire generation.

    Also, has there been any discussion of tonight’s WaPo piece on Mueller & the investigation. Trump is a subject (not target) of the investigation, that Mueller is planning to wrap up the obstruction piece by June or July (but needs an interview w/ Trump), but will keep working on the conspiracy piece.

    Apologies for the lack of links but I’m commenting on my phone which doesn’t like me moving between web pages.

  37. 37.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Marcopolo: Yes there was discussion of this. Notice all of this information was from three anonymous sources that supposedly know what the President’s defense attorneys discussed with Mueller. When Mueller or Deputy AG Rosenstein, or their spokespersons, make a statement, then I’ll be concerned.

  38. 38.

    frosty

    @Adam L Silverman: Once again, if this were in a screenplay it would be rejected as unbelievable. I ran out of “I can’t even” months ago, so regrettably, now I can’t even I can’t even.

  40. 40.

    Steve in the ATL

    @NotMax: unpossible—all the waste, fraud, and abuse is from giveaways to blacks and Mexicans and other blue state urban folk.

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: @Steve in the ATL: Part of the problem is the F-35 was actually conceived of for the Foreign Military Sales program. The F-22 is a far superior platform, but the concern was that if we offered it through the Foreign Military Sales program that once the Israelis bought it, they’d sell the tech and the specs under the table and we’d have to worry about the Iranians, the Chinese, and the DPRK getting it. So the F-35 was conceived. Of course we had to prove to our allies that we would use it. And then it had to be joint, so each Service had to buy into the platform, bringing their own concerns and requirements. So we have a combat fighter built by the committee to end all committees committee in order to give each Service what they want and have it available for the Foreign Military Sales program so as to safeguard the tech in the actual better combat fighter. I don’t know why we just couldn’t either tell the Israelis they couldn’t buy the F-22 or just not put the F-22 into the Foreign Military Sales program.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Notice all of this information was from three anonymous sources that supposedly know what the President’s defense attorneys discussed with Mueller.

    Wait, are you saying that defense attorneys might have a motive to make it sound like their client is totally innocent and will be cleared any day now?

    Perish the thought!

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: I have no doubt that Leonig and Costa have confidence in their sources, but this breaking news is at best spin and at worst hearsay. The simple reality is that Mueller and his staff don’t leak. So the information flow here is asymmetric.

  45. 45.

    frosty

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Of course we had to prove to our allies that we would use it. And then it had to be joint, so each Service had to buy into the platform, bringing their own concerns and requirements. So we have a combat fighter built by the committee to end all committees committee in order to give each Service what they want …

    I’ve seen this script before. The F-111 was supposed to be the USAF’s main fighter / fighter-bomber while being able to take off and land on a carrier and support Marines in the field. Larded up with specs, just like the F-35. Just as impossible to build. In WWII we had the Mustang (fighter) Thunderbolt (fighter-bomber) Wildcat (Navy fighter) and Corsair (Marine support). Maybe we should just design and build different planes? And fuck the overseas sales. We’ll save money or at least get more sorties per billion.

  52. 52.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    @efgoldman: No, Worse than Nixon. Nixon may have gone to China (which was excellent realpolitik), but he was never a controlled asset for the Russians (which is stupid, sad, and makes me sick to my stomach).

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, I continue to also be weirdly obsessed with this animated dancing shark from a Japanese cartoon.

    (Technically, it’s not a dancing shark — it’s a dancing alien that’s wearing a shark costume. I’m sure you all appreciate that I cleared that up for you.)

  54. 54.

    Mike J

    @frosty:

    Maybe we should just design and build different planes? And fuck the overseas sales. We’ll save money or at least get more sorties per billion.

    Once you get the meatbag out of the plane they’ll be able to multitask better, but even without a pilot, the thing that makes a good bomber makes a lousy fighter and vice versa.

  55. 55.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mnemosyne: Last night I basically just spent an hour or two listening to a bunch of late 90’s/early 00’s rock/punk. It was very relaxing after all the nephew shenanigans, but it’s even BETTER when you’re doing something manual with your hands – Legos are pretty ideal for me.

    I used to paint models instead – small pewter or plastic figures that could be used for tabletop wargaming. But I had to put all that away when the kids showed up, as I really didn’t want them to drink the paint or eat the small pointy models. :(

  57. 57.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Adam L Silverman: Ah! I posted about this earlier today, but I should really have posted again in a new open thread.

    Short version is, my nephew made some suicidal threats to me that were conditional on him not getting his way on some things – there’s a good chance that would have gotten some more attention today with his nearby relatives.

    Except, it turns out that he made more explicit suicide threats to a high-school friend of his a few hours later, who promptly called the cops. He’s in treatment now, albeit unwillingly.

  59. 59.

    Debbie(aussie)

    @MisterForkbeard:

    My son(33) is very into LEGO, and would kill for one of those. Just think how much fun you can have with the kids and LEGO. You can get back into model painting once they are older.
    And a quick PS: good news about your nephew, of a sort. Hope things work out for him and your family.

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