#BREAKING: DNC sues Trump campaign and Russian government over alleged conspiracy to help Trump win election https://t.co/pVP4bxrcX1 pic.twitter.com/2H1lSDyBOX
— The Hill (@thehill) April 20, 2018
Stock photo shade thrown! — Trump looks like the sweaty district manager trying to convince his skeptical boss those mysterious ‘accounting errors’ have nothing to do with him. Life’s been a little *too* real around here this week, so I’ve probably missed a lot, but just in case anybody wants a space to discuss this fascinating topic…
Quicktake:
1. DNC's RICO case is ineffectually histrionic.
2. DNC's RICO case may be intended to provoke defendants to seek a stay as Cohen has based on their Fifth Amendment rights for political fodder.— IPleadTheFifthHat (@Popehat) April 20, 2018
Fascinating & innovative lawsuit by DNC agnst #Russian Govt & #Trump family/associates & #Wikileaks. Will have significant sovereign immunity issues agnst Russia but if DNC can get past Motion to Dismiss by #Trump et al, serious discovery power will existhttps://t.co/50BXhaWYD3
— Mark S. Zaid (@MarkSZaidEsq) April 20, 2018
This looks, to my I-Am-Not-A-Lawyer eyes, like a good start at explaining the suit:
New Post: The Who, What, Where, When, and Why of the DNC Lawsuit (Part 1 of I don't know how many, Donald Trump is a walking, talking bar exam.) https://t.co/CT7OeC4PBT
— Max Kennerly (@MaxKennerly) April 21, 2018
Note: the 1972 DNC lawsuit against the Nixon campaign was successful; Nixon's folks paid $750K –on the day he resigned. https://t.co/nay8b51fEl
— Joan Walsh (@joanwalsh) April 20, 2018
Cohen Milstein is representing the DNC in this case. They have a history of successfully litigating complex and socially significant cases.
— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) April 21, 2018
The firm has an international human rights practice, through which it has extensive experience suing foreign governments using the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act.
— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) April 21, 2018
It is important to note the DNC filing is separate from, but now ongoing parallel to, multiple other cases: Michael Cohen; Robert Mueller; Michael Avenatti;
Each and every single one of these steps is important. Thank you to the DNC for stepping up and taking this first step.
— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) April 21, 2018
Discovery in a civil suit won’t have nearly the investigative reach that Mueller has, but it’s a lot better than nothing.
And, at some margin, it protects Mueller and Rosenstein just because it reduces the payoff to firing them.
— Jacob T. Levy (@jtlevy) April 20, 2018
If you’re unsure whether this DNC lawsuit interests you enough to make reading the complaint worth your time, here’s a prequel: the complaint charges that the Trump Campaign was a racketeering enterprise. So this is, in part, a RICO case. https://t.co/RaqZNTrMe1
— Laurence Tribe (@tribelaw) April 21, 2018
Trump campaign warns of a deep discovery dive into DNC's involvement in the development of the Steele dossier, if the Dems' "frivolous" lawsuit moves forward.
— Steven Portnoy (@stevenportnoy) April 20, 2018
Maybe the DNC lawsuit will help the party find out what happened to the downloaded folder of Hillary's data that was never accounted for after the NGP-VAN breach. ??
— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) April 21, 2018
Court case filings are going to be to Trump what any story with the word 'emails' was to Hillary. A sprawling, overlapping pool of 'revelations' that will instantly hijack any news cycle.
— Zeddy (@Zeddary) April 20, 2018
Frankensteinbeck
Putin looks like he’s wondering if conquering America was worth having to listen to this babbling imbecile.
EDIT-
Please proceed, Senator.
Jerzy Russian
Knowing them, they will produce a report with the title “Here is how the DNC was involved in compiling this factual document that outlines our criminal deeds”.
Baud
The DNC was hacked and they found nothing. I’m sure they can handle discovery better than the Trump campaign.
Frankensteinbeck
I see everyone had the same reaction I did.
jeffreyw
Nice roundup, Anne.
geg6
I love this move. IANAL, but it seems to me that if they can talk the judge into allowing this to move forward, this is a smart strategy. Another front in the legal war and, like the DNC suit during Watergate, a failsafe for getting as much truth out as possible. Liking Tom Perez a lot more this week than I did previously.
Frankensteinbeck
@geg6:
After learning Perez was closely involved in the GOTV systems introduced in Virginia and Alabama, I am feeling quite positive about the man.
Chyron HR
Whereas the guy screaming on Twitter every day about the “special council witch hunt” is a mighty stoic oak.
JMG
The last tweet cited in the post seems most significant to me.
germy
Has the senator from Vermont called it a “distraction” yet?
cleek
that was my first thought, too.
even if Trump wants to stop it all by firing Mueller, he can’t stop the DNCs suit. and the DNC will want to get access to a lot of the same stuff Mueller has/wants. it’s a backstop in case Mueller gets canned.
ericblair
@Jerzy Russian:
These idiots really believe their own bullshit, and are too lazy to check anyway. We tie ourselves up in knots here trying to figure out the angle to some odd move they make, when 99% of the time the real reason is that they’re unbelievably stupid and lazy.
clay
@Jerzy Russian: Don’t we already know the exact details of the “DNC’s involvement in the development of the Steele dossier”? There was Congressional testimony and everything!
EDIT: And how would it matter? The funding of the dossier has no bearing on whether it’s accurate or not. That argument is a political one, not a legal one.
Cermet
When the extremely stupid thugs threaten this
then what can be better? Discovery requirements alone would kill the thugs since that works both ways on that dossier – yes, yes deposition various people – and the orange fart cloud – about parts of those documents
debbie
If the only thing accomplished is freaking out Trump even more than he already is over Mueller, this lawsuit will be well worth it.
martian
I’m amazed at the amount of, what I would call, exasperated dismissiveness I’m seeing around the tubes from people who are ordinarily bitching about neoliberal corporate sellouts. Don’t they want a fight with the fascists? I heard about this lawsuit and literally laughed with delight. Like, yes! Fight, motherfuckers, fight!!
We’re on the edge waiting for Trump to fire Mueller, and it looks to me like the DNC has been gaming out our next moves. That’s a good thing, right?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I post a comment and up pops a new post….
Good morning, you get a Milky Way pic! I drove up into the local mountains, to the ol’ Boy Scout Camp Road(there’s a Boy Scout camp at the end I went to a few times in my lost youth). It was FREEZING up there! I don’t mean under 60, which is cold for my thin blood, it was literally freezing(28 degrees when I left).
Roger Moore
@Baud:
This. The dog that didn’t bark with the DNC leak was any sign of obvious illegal behavior by the party. I’m sure the RNCs emails would show all kinds of actually illegal activity, like illegal coordination with SuperPACs. That the DNC hack turned up a whole McDonald’s full of nothingburgers is the strongest indication the Democrats are clean.
Wag
Also opens up a path that Trump cannot shut down through pardons.
Raoul
Max Kennerly’s piece is really helpful. And I am enjoying that the plaintiff in his hypothetical explainer is Bruce Wayne.
Major Major Major Major
Good thing we didn’t elect that mean ol grandma or we’d be sick of scandals by now.
Baud
@martian:
No, they want to call us neoliberal corporate sellouts.
germy
@martian: Here’s something greenwald retweeted:
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Clinton Fatigue!
NobodySpecial
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’ll be the first to say I don’t understand the technology behind those pictures, but they’re always beautiful. Nicely done!
bystander
Former Twitler henchwoman Barbara Res is on Joy Reid this morning. Superb Queens accent and a complete reading of Twitler. Pretty funny, but I end up wondering how she can diss him and hope to keep her pension. Although I now realize how foolish the idea of him funding a pension fund is.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Oh, I think I like this one even better than the last one.
germy
DNC, stop this foolishness!
What if the RNC were bringing a suit against the HRC campaign? I suspect they’d be cheering it on.
Baud
@germy: I haven’t read the complaint yet but I assume the allegations against WikiLeaks involve more than just publishing documents.
Chyron HR
@martian:
No, they want Democrats to admit that we lost because White Working Class Lives are the only thing that really Matter.
PPCLI
If I understand correctly the DNC had to do this now or lose the option, as one of the key laws has a 2 year statutory limitation for claims to be brought. The limit would have been hit at the end of April.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@ericblair:
Yes. I’ve seen people calling this Stupid Watergate, but that gets nowhere near what we have here. This isn’t Stupid Watergate. It’s Head Trauma Watergate or maybe Degenerative Brain Disease Watergate.
Chyron HR
@germy:
“Well, if it’s ESPIONAGE to illegally access a computer network and steal private documents, I guess I’m a big bad SPYYYYYYYYY.”
“Yes, that’s why we’re suing you.”
“SKREEEEEE FREE PRESS SKREEEEEEEE”
rikyrah
RICO
A word that I want to see more and more connected to Dolt45 et al
germy
@Baud:
Interesting that GG et al. are portraying this as an attack on the free press. They claim that editors from the WaPo, NYT or any other news organization that publishes stuff will be thrown into jail.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Less light pollution up in the hill country.
martian
@germy: The DNC are the real fascists, I guess, just like Hillary was the real warmonger.
Glen Greenwald is really telling on himself these days.
Mandalay
@germy:
Greenwald has it wrong; WikiLeaks staff are probably wearing diapers now because they are all pissing themselves laughing at this “serious threat”.
rikyrah
Great round up of tweets, AL
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Nice. I see some lights in the distant background. How would the picture look if you cropped them out. Or have you already done that.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NobodySpecial: Thanks, the tech is pretty simple; I have a device that rotates the camera at the same rate as the stars and get really long exposure(8 minutes for this Milky Way pic).
Major Major Major Major
@germy:
This… is not how civil lawsuits work.
Isn’t he a lawyer?
Baud
@germy:
Trump will do that and GG will blame the Dems. The plot is boring now.
GregB
Trump is smearing the very concept of law enforcement using witnesses by declaring that witnesses cannot be trusted be law enforcement writ large is so corrupt that they coerce witnesses into lying in order to win their cases.
But he’s a law and order president.
germy
Here’s an old story:
http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-rigged-hillary-clinton-dnc-lawsuit-donald-trump-president-609582
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: I think the lights in the valley make the pic a bit more interesting, adds a bit of color. The light above the hills is from Los Angeles, I’ll talk to LA DWP about that.
Fair Economist
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Great pic. I love shots of the center of the Milky Way. I envy our descendants of billions of years hence who will get a side view of Andromeda unobscured by the dust clouds, as it’s crashing into our galaxy.
germy
@Major Major Major Major:
He knows enough of the law to lie about it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@GregB:
As was Nixon.
Kay
Also- the D base will like it and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with injecting politics into politics :)
Republicans don’t apologize for it and Democrats shouldn’t either, no matter how many times media scolds them.
Play politics. Take a side.
Fair Economist
@germy:
Once again exposing that they’re really working for the Russians, because the problem is that Wikileaks conspired to steal the materials, not that it published them – and they know that.
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I was just wondering out loud of how the Milky Way pic would look without any light pollution. Like it would have been before widespread electrification. It wasn’t really a critique of your abilities as a photographer.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Fair Economist: I’m going to try for some Andromeda pics this summer.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: My understanding is that it’s never going to look as bright as it does in pictures, no matter how good the conditions.
chris
@Baud:
i guess everyone is a neoliberal corporate sellout?
WereBear
DREAMS can come true, boys and girls!
Major Major Major Major
@germy: i remember that. A couple Facebook friends were all about it. Dumbasses.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: There are places you can go that have no light pollution, There are a couple of places on my list(Alabama Hills, Amboy Crater and Death Valley) that have much less light pollution than Lockwood Valley where I was this morning.
schrodingers_cat
At this juncture it feels like BS and his minions take more joy in fighting Ds than Rs.
Baud
@chris: The word “scholars” is pretty generous there.
Major Major Major Major
@chris: I found the source of your confusion: the people at the link are using the term correctly.
Kay
@Fair Economist:
If people from Wikileaks had broken into the DNC building and stolen paper copies of communications does Glenn Greenwald think they can be charged with breaking and entering?
Can I break into his house and steal his letters if I then publish them on Daily Kos as an expose? What grants the blanket immunity here? What launders the theft and makes it not a crime? Publishing?
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: There’s a correct usage?
Baud
@Kay: The answer is, it’s not a crime if the victim is the Democratic Party.
Josie
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, with these guys, it’s always “Law and order that works for me but not for thee.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: It can look pretty bright(sort of like a moonlit cloud), but the camera captures more color. But you’re right in that the camera is capturing all the light for a longer period of time that your eye does(in the case of that picture, 8 minutes).
J R in WV
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Nice job, really sharp image! Certainly the best so far.
A shame you can’t get to a really dark place to work on that stuff!
Tell us about the lens settings? Did you merge multiple images again at this location? I’m vastly curious about the details.
germy
Off topic, but this doesn’t surprise me:
https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/03/opera-maestro-james-levine-alleged-sexual-misconduct-ashok-shoky-pai/
It’s part of Remnick’s culture to puff up their friends.
BoomerGal
@rikyrah: Good Morning, rikyrah! : ) Just checking to see if you were here. Have a good one!
Kay
@Fair Economist:
Remember- Wikileaks didn’t find anything in the stolen emails. So can Wikileaks steal communications every time they suspect someone of something? It’s crucial to Greenwald’s theory that they FIND something. Otherwise they targeted people who had done nothing wrong and violated their privacy- victimized them. It’s up to Wikileaks to determine whether someone merits a Wikileaks theft of their personal information? What if they’re wrong, like they were here?
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: thatcher is a classic example of actual neoliberalism yes.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: May be if Ashok Pai was a WASP, NYT or NewYorker would have cared more?
Kay
@Baud:
There’s no due process at all regarding Wikileaks thefts. The supposed “public good” of this is important people are keeping secrets and that’s why we have to steal. But the Clinton people didn’t do anything wrong and they were robbed anyway.
There’s a real nasty (and authoritarian) punishment vibe around this whole argument. It sucks. A real disregard for who gets caught up in the “transparency” dragnet that makes me doubt that they are civil libertarians. Process for me but not for thee is NOT how people who care about civil rights think.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: It is two images(one for the foreground and one for the sky). I’m using a sky tracker for the sky pictures so the foreground is blurry because the camera is moving to capture a longer exposure of the stars. Both shots were taken with a 12mm, f/2 lens at ISO 100. The foreground was taken with the sky tracker off and is a 6 minute exposure, the sky was taken with the sky tracker on and is an 8 minute exposure.
martian
@schrodingers_cat: That was always true of Greens, too, thus the Al Gore parallel catastrophe. Nader is unrepentant and still won’t admit that Gore would have been better. “Just as bad in different ways” is what I recall him saying recently, and he seemed aggravated that the interviewer even brought it up. Pretty much what Stein has said about Hillary, as will any Bro, push come to shove. Bernie is of a kind, and that kind despises Dems.
stinger
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Is your last name Hubble?
And is that image for sale?
germy
@schrodingers_cat: No, they protect their friends. The guy who hired the “hang women who have abortions” writer for the Atlantic is also a New Yorker magazine staffer. The New Yorker editorialists who have something to say about everything, were silent on the subject.
Baud
@Kay: GG was on Hayes once and specifically said Podesta was not entitled to privacy because he was a big shot. Assannge and GG are not big shots, I guess, so you aren’t entitled to dig into what they are doing.
Kay
@Baud:
It’s subjective, right? The Clinton people are “bad” people therefore it’s good and right and true that they were robbed. That’s the polar opposite of civil rights. It’s a tiny group of people deciding who gets the protections of process and who doesn’t.
They don’t have to be good people. They just have to be people to be worthy of legal protections.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Hillary was nothing like her though.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Their friends seem to be other white folks of the male variety.
WereBear
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Beauty.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay:
Which is why they’re more accurately ungarnished libertarians.
@Baud: and calling Hillary a neoliberal is incorrect.
Baud
@Kay: More than subjective, it’s tribal.
martian
@Kay: Greenwald’s cohort do think evidence of corruption was found, though. None of them would accept “Clintons did nothing wrong” as a premise for argument.
chris
@Baud: These guys?
JWR
Glenn Greenwald, eh? Paging Amy Goodman! We got a live one for your next show! (And I’ll lay you odds that she’ll have him on sometime next week. Ugh!)
chris
@Major Major Major Major: Yes.
Kay
@Baud:
How big a shot do you have to be? Maybe Glenn could draft some guidelines. 1 million in assets? 50 million? What about a county clerk? Can we steal her email account or is that not big enough?
If he doesn’t I guess it’s just up to Assange to decide who gets process and who doesn’t. That should be a problem for a “civil libertarian” I would think. They might want to clean this theory up a little. It doesn’t hang together at all.
tobie
Why is “IPleadtheFifthHat” so opposed to this lawsuit? I just checked his twitter feed and the posters there are absolutely convinced that the lawsuit is a train wreck on legal and political grounds.
Mandalay
@Fair Economist:
How do you know with certainty that this is true?
Baud
@chris: I was corrected in that there is a correct usage of neoliberal.
Kay
@martian:
Well of course it doesn’t matter! It’s subjective. They decide who merits a theft and then they decide if there was wrongdoing that merits the theft. After the fact.
You thought they would admit there was no high minded moral reason for the theft after they did it? Then they’re just stealing.
germy
@Kay:
The guy who owned the mansion in the gated community before GG bought it is a big shot. GG (who lives their now with a large housekeeping staff) is just a regular dude.
Baud
@Kay:
Snowden and Manning are heroes, while they out Rachel Winter and condemn her to prison without so much as a how do you do. Guidelines would only cabin their discretion.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@stinger: No, but I have a Milky Way image that relates to Hubble; you’ll have to wait for a “On the Road” for that one. I will have images to sell, soon.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WereBear: Thanks.
trollhattan
@germy:
The voice in Greenwald’s head:
Major Major Major Major
@tobie: popehat (has a real name somewhere) is a fairly respected innertubes commentator, though he does have his inclinations.
Chyron HR
@Mandalay:
How did Bernie “know with certainty” that Hillary was in league with Goldman Sachs to… do whatever evil thing that he never got around to specifically identifying?
Kay
@martian:
Then they should back Wikileaks raiding people’s homes with no process. They might find a crime! If they don’t they can just say they did after the fact and anyway- transparency, blah, blah.
Greenwald has some kind of charity, correct? I, in my infinite wisdom, have decided that a theft of his communications is warranted on the grounds of transparency. I’ll need hard copies of the emails though, so I’ll have to break in. I promise to publish my findings, thereby bestowing immunity upon myself for the theft.
martian
@Kay: There’s just a lot of motivated reasoning going on with Brogressives. For them to be correct, the DNC must be in the wrong, and so it is. Any relitigation of the primary or election involves reams of this. How else to be absolved of blame for not fully committing to defeating Trump if Hillary was not a self-evidently corrupt and inept candidate hardly distinguishable from Trump?
The Other Chuck
I have Glenn Greenwald’s inbox. It’s interesting stuff, reveals names of tons of his sources, plus some relationships that I think he might not want everyone to know about. I’m gonna go ahead and publicize it. Might even get some of those sources killed. But press freedom, right Glenn?
(No I do not actually have his inbox)
Mandalay
@Baud:
I think you meant Reality Leigh Winner.
Massive incompetence from The Intercept.
Major Major Major Major
Greenwald seems like the sort of guy who writes ten-page STERNLY WORDED LETTERS to the owners of shops where he got shortchanged once.
Mandalay
@tobie:
As far as I can tell he is neither for nor against it. He just thinks it’s very unlikely to succeed.
Baud
@Mandalay: Thanks, yes. Wasn’t there another one recently who they outed?
Kay
@martian:
I don’t care that Wikileaks worked to get Trump elected. The Watergate burglars worked to get Nixon elected. No one argued it was a grave threat to freedom of the press when they were arrested and charged for the break in, because that’s fucking ridiculous. There’s not some retroactive immunity that attaches to the whole chain of events with the magical act of publishing.
martian
@Kay: That cohort is pretty authoritarian under the skin, imo. I don’t think Wikileaks would turn up it’s nose at material someone else raided a home for. Information wants to be free and all that. But personal exemption to the standard set for others is one of an authoritarian’s first orders of business, so invading the privacy of Greenwald or Greenwald adjacents is obviously a no go because reasons.
The Other Chuck
@Mandalay: I hear they have these things called “trials” that establish the certainty of accusations found to have merit. Does The Great Mandalay not approve?
trollhattan
@Mandalay:
My take was it was beyond incompetence and that they were quite willing to serve her up, part out of self-interest and the other part straight-up misogyny. They gained her trust and dropped her like a hot rock once they got the goods.
Mandalay
@The Other Chuck:
Exactly so, fuckwit. That’s why it’s wrong to present mere accusations as facts.
David Evans
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Galileo called to point out that you don’t mean “at the same rate as the stars”, you mean “at the same rate as the Earth”.
martian
@Kay: I agree with you, but no argument is going to be persuasive to people highly motivated to see it otherwise.
At this point, I’d go so far as to say that good faith arguments are useless against characters operating in bad faith. I no longer credit Greenwald and his cohort with that kind of intellectual honesty. What their actual motivations are, is what I’m puzzling over.
martian
@Baud: That FBI guy, right? Same kind of journalistic malpractice that snapped the mousetrap on Reality Winner, from what I recall.
WereBear
From long observation I’d say Greenwald is all about Greenwald. He found a schtick with an audience, and he’s going to work it like a Borscht Belt comedian until it stops.*
*referring to the fact than many comedians got started in Jewish resort hotels and kept the same act for the rest of their lives. Television ruined this. And now I’m thinking of a joke:
hueyplong
Kind of enjoying the butthurt emanating from the usual suspects over this lawsuit.
arrieve
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Beautiful picture! I haven’t tried much star photography yet because I live in the middle of Manhattan and you can rarely even see stars much less photograph them. But I’m going to try on my next big trip.
arrieve
@Major Major Major Major: That was my first thought as well — shouldn’t a lawyer understand the difference between criminal penalties and a civil lawsuit?
hitchhiker
Underneath so much of what happened in 2016 is an unshakeable faith that Hillary Clinton is a criminal.
No investigation, no matter how thorough or long-lasting or deep, can ever clear her, because finding no evidence of wrong-doing or ill intent only means that she was able to hide her basic criminality. Again.
This is what Comey thinks but can’t say. It’s what Greenwald, Putin, Assange, and every last one of the Trump voters think and routinely say.
It justifies every outrage against her, forever.
Reasonable people who credit Obama with great intellect, perception, and political skills believe that in the case of Hillary Clinton — the ruthless criminal — he just made a mistake by putting her at the head of State for four years and then campaigning to get her into the White House once he’d seen her up close and at that demanding work.
It really is a derangement syndrome. Anything done against her, including theft, is fine.
Raoul
@ericblair
It seems there is a growing cost to the right’s reliance on Fox + Drudge + Infowars. They have no idea how all of this looks to the not-27%.
PJ
@Kay: Not to mention that Assange forces anyone associated with Wikileaks to sign an NDA forbidding them to disclose anything relating to Wikileaks or Assange. Transparency is only important when it comes to Assange’s political targets, which, as we have seen, is anyone Assange deems an enemy (or is paid to target), which could be anyone.
Baud
@hitchhiker: Agree. It’s a level of faith that would Jesus jealous.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@David Evans: It’s all relative.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@arrieve: Here’s the Dark Sky Finder map, the east coast of the US, Europe and Japan and South Korea really suck as far a light pollution.
Steve in the ATL
@?BillinGlendaleCA: but are great as far as seafood goes
martian
@WereBear: Greenwald has a schtick and an audience, yes, but for a percentage, at least, he can lead them around by the nose. So, why this direction from him, the great civil libertarian? I feel like there’s more animating it than opportunism and the convenience of an already captured audience. There’s something more here than even the conviction that Hillary is a criminal as hitchhiker discussed. Objectively, Trump was venal and corrupt in every way and an obvious threat to civil liberties. Even accepting the premise of Hillary Clinton’s ineffable, eternal corruption, Hillary is the lesser evil. What’s pushing the blind spot that’s entirely swallowed Greenwald up?
ET
A lot of the talk on the NBC yack shows was about how the DNC case against Nixon during Watergate was though a bit wacky until it was settled for $750,000 settlement on the day Nixon resigned.
Fair Economist
@Kay:
Yes, he does. He’s putting up a smokescreen trying to prevent them from getting the legal punishment he knows they deserve.
Snarki, child of Loki
I sincerely hope that part of the lawsuit is a judicial order to “preserve all emails, memos, tapes, etc”; unfortunately most judges are not prepared to exert sufficient force to make sure that the order is obeyed.
I’m thinking “a hard kick in the nuts for every violation”.
gwangung
@Mandalay: Heh. Heh heh. Oh, the self-absorbed lack of awareness.
The irony amuses me.
Ruckus
@cleek:
Why should it be a backstop? There is no way it should interfere with the DOJ, it should proceed as a regular case. So it pisses off drumpf, that’s a massive positive in my view. If it causes him to fire Mueller I think that will backfire. He’s been in office 15 months and hasn’t figured out how to fire Mueller yet? I don’t think that he’s going to be able to fire him. He hasn’t had the balls to really even try yet, there has to be a lot of reasons for that.
opiejeanne
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Beautiful, as are all of your photos, Bill.
Where is this BS camp? Angeles National Forest? Mr opiejeanne thinks that’s where he went a couple of times as a Boy Scout.
Mnemosyne
@martian:
Misogyny. And, yes, gay men can be misogynists. See also Sullivan, Andrew, who hates all women other than Margaret Thatcher.
Ruckus
@ericblair:
In the Korean thread upstairs I responded to a comment by @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et Al.): and called them:
The Republican Roaring Drunk Loon Party.
Ruckus
@germy:
Now I know for sure it’s the right thing to do. It pisses off GG.
Mnemosyne
@gwangung:
I find it curious that the one person Mandalay is not trying to argue with is Kay, who is an actual lawyer. ?
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Imagine that, BS staying true to form.
low-tech cyclist
@Roger Moore:
I am so stealing this.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Short changed two cents. It was the end of the fucking world.
J R in WV
@Mandalay:
First, certainty is never required, as we can’t know the sun will come up with certainty. Not even in a murder trial, just beyond a reasonable doubt. You don’t know this about logic and American justice?
Secondly, I’m pretty sure they announced it with pride! If that’s wrong, I won’t apologize. It seems to be publicly acknowledged – I’m surprised you have any doubt.
What, what??… Except that you also appear to be a Russian-leaning troll, anti-democracy in every case as well as anti-Democratic Party. As well as ignorant of American rules of government in every case.
J R in WV
@hitchhiker:
Yes, and that belief is SO UnAmerican, because in America you are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt!
People who never took history, or logic, or civics or political science, or read about any legal situation ever, don’t know about presumed innocent. But the founding fathers were well educated in many fields, including philosophy, logic and rhetoric – in which fields you learn that it is impossible to prove a negative. You cannot prove that you didn’t do something. It is impossible.
This is why most legal systems today don’t require an accused person to prove they did not do the crime, the accusers must prove that that DID do the crime, beyond a reasonable doubt, which is possible.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@opiejeanne: The Boy Scout Camp is Camp Three Falls run by the Ventura County Council, it’s not in Angeles National Forest, but maybe Las Padres National Forest.
WaterGirl
@cleek: Exactly my thoughts, too. It’s a very smart play.
afanasia
I just used the pie filter for the first time – so fun :)