The $2 million bond for Travis Reinking was just revoked by a judge. We got a lot of comments from locals (and beyond) as to why he would have been given bond to begin with. Under TN state law, all are entitled to it except death penalty cases (which this is not). pic.twitter.com/2cdiCZQrDI
— Nick Valencia (@CNNValencia) April 24, 2018
Needless to say, this drew a ton of questions (you can click on the tweet to see some of them). Even from those of us who oppose the death penalty, because if walking into a restaurant wearing only your bullets-holder and shooting down multiple strangers in cold blood doesn’t qualify for the death penalty, what does?
(Yeah, I know: Being wilfully not-white in a public — or, if the wrong ‘authority figures’ get involved, private — space.)
And I’ve seen tweets saying Reinking’s father has been charged as an accessory for giving those guns back to his obviously incompetent-to-handle-them-safely son, but I haven’t found a proper news report.
Be that as it may, here’s a genuinely positive response to the tragedy:
Reporter Yashar Ali is raising money for the man who pried the gun away from a shooter at a Waffle House.
James Shaw Jr. wrestled the weapon away from the gunman during a mass shooting on Sunday in the Nashville restaurant. On Monday, Shaw started a GoFundMe account raising money for the families of the shooting victims…
Ali said that the money will be given directly to James and that the funds could be used for his daughter’s education.
“But I’d be just as happy if James used some of this money to take his family on a nice vacation,” he added.
More than $61,000 had been given to the GoFundMe as of Tuesday afternoon, more than the goal of $60,000.
Shaw has been hailed as a hero after fighting back against the shooter. His GoFundMe for the victims’ families had raised more than $98,000 as of Tuesday afternoon.
Shaw suffered a gunshot wound and burns from grabbing the assault-style rifle from the gunman. Four people were killed and at least three others were injured in the shooting…
Direct links to the GoFundMe pages:
Roger Moore
Of course it’s always possible to ask for a capital charge later in the process. In this case, though, I think it would make more sense to put in the capital charge immediately, if only to prevent him from being released on bond, and remove it later if you think it isn’t warranted.
VeniceRiley
This, and the MRA psycho in Toronto. Arrrrrgh. Then I saw happy news from, of all places, Alabama: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-miss-america-deidre-downs-gunn-marries-same-sex-partner-in-alabama-wedding/ar-AAwheh0?ocid=ientp
That, and chicken-hoover Lily are keeping me going today
debbie
NPR reported this morning that the father had “acknowledged” he returned the guns to his son.
I think they’re both sovereign citizens.
Ruckus
Nice.
I’m sitting here fuming about this. Will the local government do anything for the victims? No. Will they at least reasonably try the asshole? A greater than slim chance of not really?
AWwWW……..
I’m just fucking pissed, maybe this too shall pass.
ruemara
It’s kinda funny how the other Waffle House incident is kinda fading.
dmsilev
Haven’t seen any reports of the father actually being charged, but I do hope he faces some consequences for his decisions. Too often, people who are negligent with guns (and this sure as hell counts) get let off by “oh, they’ve suffered enough already” or “oh, it was an accident”.
rikyrah
The man shot and killed four people.
How is that not CAPITAL MURDER!
wkwv
I tend to clench up around the twentieth of April, worrying that some neo-nazi will go on a killing spree. Maybe the Waffle House murders were just a coincidence but this is my little conspiracy hypothesis(I won’t dignify it by calling it a theory).
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Not only is Mr Shaw awsome for disarming that guy after being shot, but he showing some class afterwards.
Considering both Reinking and his father showed contempt for the law when his fathered returned Reinking guns, how bail even possible? I know, Reinking is white.
Major Major Major Major
It seemed very on the nose to be welcomed back to the country with headlines blaring NAKED WAFFLE HOUSE GUNMAN STILL AT LARGE, I must say.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@ruemara: You got admit, a questionable arrest pales compared to the cold blooded murder of four people.
debbie
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It’s more than a questionable arrest. Throwing her to the ground and promising to break her arm — over some fucking plastic silverware???
Cold-blooded murder shouldn’t be the dividing line in this country.
Mary G
If true, this should be entertaining:
Barbara
I don’t support the death penalty but it should not be applied unevenly. At any rate, the reason not to pursue the death penalty is that he is mentally ill. James Holmes was spared the death penalty, pretty clearly because at least one of the jurors (who was willing to convict) balked at the death penalty. We don’t actually know at this point just how delusional this guy is. The guy who killed security guards when he tried to shoot his way into Congress was utterly, completely, batshit out of touch with anything that smacked of reality. He drove from Montana in order to kill politicians because he was convinced that his farm was being subject to aerial surveillance and he and his crops were being poisoned by a government plot. Feds tried and tried to force him to take medication so he could stand trial and I don’t think they ever succeeded in getting him sane enough to be found competent.
MomSense
@debbie:
That was so disgusting. It’s infuriating.
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
I hope some Senator asks him questions about Girthergate during his confirmation hearing.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mary G:
RADM Jackson, what a standup, honorable guy. Thank you for your service!
ruemara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: You’re not a black woman, are you? You’re not feeling your blood run cold as you watch someone who looks like you be abused & assaulted over… a plastic utensil. Yeah, it’s not the racially based murder of fellow black people, because, as a black woman, the fact that other black people just got murdered for going out to eat isn’t affecting you. You’re not sitting there looking at the deaths of people like you and the abuse of people like you and wondering how you can wind up feeling less safe in a world you already didn’t feel that safe in.
How about we agree that while the murders most certainly are important, it’s a little surprising that an even more violent, disturbing arrest over bullshit has had much less outrage than the 2 guys at Starbucks?
Roger Moore
@Barbara:
I don’t support the death penalty at least in part because I have no confidence it would, or even could, be applied evenly.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@rikyrah:
I feel the same way about that guy who stabbed people in Portland last year. He knows what he did and thinks what he did was justified, killing two (?) bystanders who were just trying to defend two muslim women he was menacing. No remorse whatsoever.
He’s a total murderous reichwinger and I hope he gets the death penalty. He was caught red-handed.
I don’t support the DP on the principle that it wouldn’t applied evenly and that innocent people have gotten killed who were later exonerated.
Barbara
@Roger Moore: Yes, well, not pursuing it in a case like this (assuming he is competent after all) would be what you would call “uneven” application.
Mnemosyne
I was wondering in the thread below if the guy is currently getting a psychiatric evaluation and if that affects the bail decision. I would hope that someone who fails a psych evaluation doesn’t get released just because he can make bail.
@ruemara:
The Starbucks guys are getting more outrage because most people (wrongly) assume that a Starbucks in Philadelphia has fewer racists working there than a Waffle House in Alabama, so they’re more shocked by a lesser crime because it can’t happen here.
Kathleen
OT, Shooting in Dallas:
More here:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/dallas-police-officers-shot-critically-wounded-authorities/story?id=54705025
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: There seems to be some dispute about what triggered the call to the police at the Waffle House in Alabama. I have no idea whether it’s real or who is or is not telling the truth and the police response was disproportionate and repugnant, but from a certain perspective, the Starbucks situation might actually be worse because there was no question that these guys were not doing anything that any of us haven’t done at a Starbucks without being even noticed let alone told to leave and certainly not having the police called on us.
Schlemazel
@ruemara:
The victim is unsympathetic, she was drunk and disorderly in a big way. Not that the response was appropriate and proportional but there were black witnesses who are reporting she was out of line so it is going to be difficult at best to generate a rational discussion about the cops. She was with 2 companions and they left her before the cops got there, you might assume they wanted no part of her either.
I think the golf course incident would carry more weight even without the blue-violence
Barbara
Slate has some of the details on this guy in Canada:
No words, just, I hope my daughters never run into anyone like him.
Schlemazel
@Barbara:
really the in-be-cel revolution because that is what those guys are
Roger Moore
@Barbara:
Uneven application is only one reason I’m opposed to capital punishment, and for that reason I’m more troubled by cases where prosecutors ask for it when they shouldn’t than I am by cases where they fail to ask for it when they reasonably could. That said, I agree that (assuming competence) shooting up a bunch of random strangers for no obvious reason other than their identity should be a death penalty case if anything is; if prosecutors refuse to ask for it in this case (again, assuming competence) they shouldn’t be allowed to ask for it in any other.
ruemara
@Schlemazel: Yeah, she deserved it. Thanks for your input.
LAO
@Roger Moore: I agree with you 100%.
Elizabelle
@Barbara: Can you imagine how awful Elliott Rodger’s parents feel, hearing he has fanbois? Not to mention his victims’ friends and families.
The parents tried to stop him, but Elliott presented as “normal” to police during the requested welfare check.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: I do think of his parents, jumping in a car and speeding to Santa Barbara in a desperate attempt to stop him, after trying desperately to get authorities to intervene.
@ruemara: She didn’t deserve it. It’s sickening the way the police treated her, but if her side of the story is not credible it will make it harder for her to get any kind of redress, and it’s GD hard enough already to win cases against the police.
Schlemazel
@ruemara:
Yeah, thanks for not actually reading the words I wrote & imposing your thoughts on them.
I very clearly said this was about gathering sympathy for the victim, which she is not going to get. I noted that the response was not appropriate but the people we need to win over on the subject will never talk about that when they can blame the victim. The comment was about winning the PR battle.
Mary G
@Schlemazel: You are straight up victim blaming and shaming here. If she was a white male, the tackling to the floor might not have happened. I’ve seen a million drunk and stoned white guys get at most a raised voice and an uncomfortable arm hold. None of them were arrested unless they were driving or bit the cop. The cops also spend a lot more time trying to de-escalate the issue when the person is white. When they’re POC they go straight to “get on the ground now.” It’s the discrepancy between what’s “appropriate and proportional” for white people and people of color that we’re objecting to.
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
It unfortunately is considered “normal” for white dudes to be upset that the women they find attractive won’t sleep with them, so the cops wouldn’t have seen anything unusual even if he’d gone off on one of his MRA rants.
Roger Moore
@Schlemazel:
I think the golf incident is getting less response at least in part because the police did their job properly. To me, at least, the outrage in the Starbucks and Waffle House incidents isn’t as much that racists called the cops for something that didn’t require police assistance; it’s that the cops showed up and took the racists’ side. In the case of the golf course, the police who came to the scene realized what was going on and refused to act as the racists’ enforcers. That’s naturally going to produce a lot less outrage.
notoriousJRT
No death penalty for someone who is mentally ill?
Miss Bianca
And now I find out that the Waffle House murderer has ties to the town where I work. Le sigh. Tis a mad worle entirely.
Schlemazel
@Mary G:
No, I straight up didn’t. rumera asked why that incident was not getting attention & I simply posited that the victim was not sympathetic. She did not deserve to get that beat down but you are not going to convince many people of that so it is not going to get the attention it deserves
rikyrah
@Mary G:
They are trying to give him a way out. If he doesn’t, they are going to drop a house on him.
rikyrah
@ruemara:
Uh huh
Uh huh ??
Yarrow
I see the official State Dinner meet and greet photos have happened. Trump had a good hold on Melania’s hand. I guess the he saw the comments about the previous hand incident.
Major Major Major Major
@notoriousJRT: I’m fine with no death penalty for anybody.
rikyrah
@Schlemazel:
How do you know that she was drunk. Did they release the results of a blood test?
JWR
@Barbara: From today’s NYT:
This reminds me all the many cases of police shootings where their departments say that the officers actions were “within departmental policy”. Well, change the damn policy, already, ‘cuz yours sucks! None of this “they feared for their lives” nonsense without a full explanation.
RSA
@Ruckus:
I know. WTF?
I’ve often been reminded of “The Second Coming” lately. If Yeats were writing about “the best of us” today, in the U.S., I think it would be less about their lack of conviction and more about their being dismissed and neglected. Heroes like Shaw (and many other worthy people) asking for charity for their families and for others, because our society has little else in place to help people when terrible things happen. The worst people, of course, are still full of passionate intensity.
Washburn
#notallwafflehouses
debbie
@Roger Moore:
This is something else I hadn’t heard about, but reading a couple articles tells me there should be just as much outrage as there was at Starbucks. The police are basically irrelevant; it’s the blatant discrimination by the store manager and course “advisor” that’s the real issue.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Shocker no one wants to date them, huh?
Why wasn’t he issued the girlfriend he is owed? It’s all so grim and transactional. “I’ll need clear title to a girlfriend, along with the lease on the apartment”.
I just hope they’re not good at disguising it. It would be tragic if some poor girl discovered this after the fact, because imagine breaking up with one of them. Can’t be easy to get out of it once you’re in it. Pretty much guaranteed to involve a CPO.
Viva BrisVegas
I’m not going to pretend to understand US gun laws, but why would any law enforcement do this?
“However, Reinking’s father was present when those deputies came to confiscate the guns, Huston said. The father had a valid state authorization card and asked the police if he could keep the weapons. Deputies gave Reinking’s father the weapons, Huston said.”
The guns did not belong to Reinking’s father, they belonged to his son. Who was no longer regarded as fit to hold them. Why weren’t the guns impounded?
Do law officers just get to gift guns to whoever may be around?
Why are people concentrating on the father (deservedly), yet not law enforcement?
debbie
@Kay:
The next line after your cite:
Isn’t it always? These guys, if they ever do get laid, will grow up to be the men who become fanatic pro-lifers. Their “secret” reason for being anti-abortion will be that the woman got an abortion without their permission.
The news today is making me more bitter than usual.
JPL
@Viva BrisVegas: Federal law enforcement is looking into it.
Gvg
@rikyrah: I don’t think I have ever seen so clear a case where I was sure he was insane an incompetent. If that state differentiates, he won’t be eligible for the death penalty, and probably most juries wouldn’t impose it.
Now I do think that law didn’t think of this scenario and it needs amending. Carefully. Proven insane and murderous should mean no bail.
Washburn
From the NYT article, which of course you can’t believe because th NYT is all in for Trump and a huge supporter of police brutality:
In the 911 call, the worker said her manager had asked her to call because two women and a man acting “drunk and disorderly” had arrived with alcohol and were refusing to throw it away. The security footage had no audio but showed Ms. Clemons, 25, and Ms. Adams, 26, pointing and yelling at employees.
At a news conference on Monday, Detective Brian Mims said the women were cursing and threatening them.
“‘You ain’t going to be here tomorrow,’” Detective Mims said the women told employees. “‘I may have a gun. I may have anything. I can come back up here and shoot this place up if I need to.’”
—-
If a white man had showed up drunk at a Waffle House at 3 a.m. carrying a bottle of Fireball and threatened to shoot up the place, they would have made him a manager there- not called the police!
JWR
@Yarrow: Did you see the “She hates him as much as we do” post from today, featuring Trump’s now legendary pinky tinkle, as he tries to get a rise from Melania’s impassive hand during today’s WH meet and greet? (I’m just catching up now, myself.) It’s epic! Reminds me of that airport clip of DT giving her hand a backslap for attention.
Baud
@Washburn:
Or president of the United States.
Roger Moore
@debbie:
Again, I’m going to disagree. Private bigotry is a huge problem; it’s nothing compared to institutional bigotry. We have civil rights laws that are designed to allow people redress when they have been discriminated against, but that depends on the institutions enforcing those laws to do their jobs rather than backing the bigots. When bigots call the cops to enforce their bigotry and the cops tell them to get bent, we get progress. When bigots call the cops to enforce their bigotry and the cops go along, we get Jim Crow.
Gvg
@Viva BrisVegas: with the police, it needs looking into but it’s not going to be as clear. Chances are it’s something bought the law…like taking property needs to be paid for so its cheaper to give to family, or they don’t want to attract the ire of the 2nd amendment nuts. Police also don’t know a particular accused as well as family and could guess wrong.
Dad lied to police and knew his son. He’s easy to be sure he is a dangerous idiot or worse. Although I suspect he might have mental issues too, though less obvious.
Still I was wrong guessing the murderor hand ‘the been found because he had killed himself.
Washburn
@Baud:
I think I would prefer a random Fireball devotee to Trump.
Kay
@debbie:
It’s a contradiction, right, because all women are both whores and also denying them the sex they’re owed. They’re chaste whores! Even more infuriating!
Again, you hope it’s like a flashing neon light so much so that some primal survival sense keeps young women away because that encounter is not going to end well. If they have this much trouble starting something I imagine they’re very reluctant to let the hostage go.
Jay
@debbie:
Don’t read http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com,
Stick to wonkette who covers these nutjobs online once a week.
The stupid thing about MGTOW’s and Incels, is the only thing keeping them from being “Chads” and having lot’s of wonderful relationships with women, from solid friends to GGG’s,
Is a couple of google searches and their hate and resentment.
Steve in the ATL
@Viva BrisVegas:
Because the father and son were white. #SATSQ.
Jay
@Kay:
They are basically porn addicted Toddlers buried deep in Crank Magnetism and hate.
Elizabelle
Public radio station is playing Dave Brubeck’s Take Five. Perfect for a rainy April night.
TenguPhule
@ruemara:
For what its worth, I’ve been tracking on the story. Its not getting any better, Cops are doubling down and claiming the security footage supports their story.
Somehow I doubt they will release the actual footage to the public without a legal fight.
Elizabelle
@Jay: What do your acronyms stand for? MG … and GGG? Have learned “incel” earlier today.
Sad that we have such alienated young males in our midst. Maybe they have always been there, and were just surplus? Went out west? Who knows.
Who knows what’s in China and India’s future, with their very real mismatch in gender prevalence? Not enough women. Does not bode well. At all. For having a gentler and wiser community, or for family and relationship building.
Washburn
@TenguPhule:
Closely tracking?
Roger Moore
@Kay:
What strikes me is that the list of demands is that it’s mostly counterproductive for incels who want to have sex. How are they supposed to get laid if they can’t have sex with married women (punishment for adultery) or unmarried women (demand for female premarital chastity)? The only thing on that list that would actually improve their access to sex is allowing prostitution, but she isn’t your girlfriend if you pay for it. The common feature of the items on that list is denying women agency.
Mnemosyne
@Mary G:
Yep. The difference is the response — white people get the benefit of the doubt, Black people get the cops called immediately.
It’s like the high school girl who got beaten up in class by a security guard for not putting her cell phone down. Really, calling security for that behavior seemed like a rational response to anyone? But she was a black student, so it was escalated really fast.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Actually Kay, its not.
It all boils down to “They’re whores because they’re attractive and having lots of sex with guys that aren’t me!”
These folks believe they are the sole star of a 80s soft-core sex comedy. Only nobody else is laughing.
Steve in the ATL
Bay Area juicers: anyone going to the Giants-Nationals game tonight? Or maybe have a luxury box for me??
TenguPhule
@Washburn: Best as I can with the resources available. Too many of these kinds of stories these days.
Matt McIrvin
@Jay: It’s not necessarily easy. I had terrible social anxiety issues as a young man, didn’t date much, certainly couldn’t manage to get a steady girlfriend (in part because I kept getting fixated on women who weren’t interested and was too dumb to return interest in the ones who obviously liked me), and it was frustrating. But I didn’t blame women for it. I knew perfectly well what was going on. Well, mostly.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Reminds me of the story of the black girl being attacked by the cop at a party in Texas.
Credenzal Clearwater Revival
I saw these two signs on the back window of the car in front of me tonight:
and
First thought: How shrill!
Second thought: I bet that’s a Balloon Juicer.
TenguPhule
Well this was unexpected.
Emma
@Kay:
Thankfully, they’re not. They can keep the normal guy act up for short periods of time but sooner rather than later they blow their cover.
Patricia Kayden
@Schlemazel: Even if she was drunk and disorderly, throwing her on the ground and threatening to break her arm isn’t justifiable police conduct. It’s fascinating how police handle ARMED White suspects versus how they handle UNARMED Blacks.
Yarrow
@JWR: I did, yes. I’m pretty sure Trump saw those comments too, which is why he was sure to make Melania hold his hand and look happy about it.
This Waffle House thread is depressing. I didn’t know anything about the Waffle House incidents because I was away from all news this weekend. They both sound terrible.
CarolPW
@Elizabelle: GGG is Good, Giving, and Game. Dan Savage’s sex columns (and SLOG in general) have been very educational.
Elizabelle
@VeniceRiley:
Smiling at your description.
Patricia Kayden
@Credenzal Clearwater Revival: You must be in a blue state. Those are perfect signs and so true.
chris
There’s a good summary explanation of incels in this Twitter thread. The last tweet has a link to r/inceltears on Reddit. It’s a good way to keep an eye on these charming fellows without actually going where they are, something I’m sure most of you don’t want to do.
Baud
All this talk of incels makes me want to have preventative sex.
Patricia Kayden
@Washburn: Funnily enough I hated the one Waffle House that I visited somewhere in the South. Grimy environment and the food was yucky. Don’t like IHOP either so there’s that.
I’m really curious if that Waffle House employee called the police over plastic cutlery. That cannot be real.
TenguPhule
Breaking: DACA gets 90 day stay of execution by Judge John Bates.
Elizabelle
@Baud: I think I was happier not knowing about them.
Incels and infidels. What a world. (Wasn’t that part of Lawrence Wright’s theory on terrorism: that young Arab men did not have good economic futures or access to women? I remember him saying that… The Looming Tower.)
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle: And China is even worse. Their projected demographics and India’s are going to lead to increased stress and violence under the current regimes.
Patricia Kayden
@Washburn: Well, if that was the behavior Ms. Clemons was engaging in, I understand why the police were called. I still don’t agree with how they treated her. But yeah, she and her friends need to control their liquor. Sigh.
Mnemosyne
@chris:
From that Tweet:
As I’ve said before, I read a long series of blogposts a few years ago that explained that PUA (pick-up artist) techniques like “negging” are pretty much designed to attract women with personality disorders, especially Borderline and Narcissistic PD. I may have to track those down since they seem relevant right about now.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: Trump’s twitter meltdown should be quite entertaining.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Any Dem can propose a jobs program, only Baud! 2020! will guarantee you a woman! :-/
Mary G
This is an old Vox article and Twitter thread, but it really struck me how accurately nailed this after the election.
How the alt-right’s sexism lures men into white supremacy
A more recent article in Teen Vogue (If you had told me I would end up reading Teen Vogue in my 60s, I would have thought you were insane) talks about how these “lone wolf” shooters are no such thing:
Steve in the ATL
@Elizabelle:
Heard that from the CIA as well. Religion is one of the few areas where men can express themselves. That and soccer. Maybe more soccer fields in the Middle East would solve terrorism?
Felanius Kootea
Thank you for the donation links, Anne Laurie, much appreciated. I see both have exceeded their original goals, which is great!
@Kay: I have no use for men’s rights activists and I think they are taking on a dangerous role online. Seems to me that some of the online groups like the reddit group for incels attract a vulnerable subset of men and some of these men are becoming radicalized, almost like a terrorist cell. I have a godson who is autistic and I worry about him. I notice that some of these killers like Elliott Rodgers and the Toronto murderer are high-functioning autistic; they were diagnosed with Asperger’s. From my godson, and graduate school colleagues with this diagnosis, I know that people with autism know the moral difference between right and wrong. However, people who are socially awkward and isolated and unable to make the kind of human contact that they crave can find an echo chamber online that helps them decide that the problem is everyone else, not them. The Toronto killer had access to a social program to help him “work though his cognitive barriers and prepare him for the workplace.” There’s no indication that there was anything to help him navigate relationships with the opposite sex. There’s a quote I read in a different article that claimed that he seemed almost scared of girls in high school. As more and more kids get diagnosed with autism, we’re going to have to deal with this issue for a subset, but I’m not sure how this happens.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: My guess is that Ms. Clemons is going to get a settlement from the police. Her behavior was not good, but threatening to break her arm is actionable.
I am curious about the charge for plastic utensils. I never do takeout from Waffle House. Are they going to charge for the disposable containers next? Ridiculous. (Albeit, who does not have extra plastic and straws in their car …)
EBT
Gonna have to post my next story a few hours early. So early Friday instead of around noon. I should be able to signal boost it around noon though.
Ruckus
@debbie:
That’s what I was talking about. Wake up, more insane, stupid, racist shit happening. People dying for about the dumbest, most asinine reasons. People can’t get any mental health care. Even if they had insurance, it would cover finding out they have issues, but doesn’t pay nearly enough to help. Then of course there are the assholes that couldn’t get laid with a gift certificate and plane fare to the Mustang Ranch and have to take it out on everyone else. Or the assholes who blame everyone but the fuckstick they see in the mirror every day for being a fuckstick. My sister blamed our mom for pretty much everything bad that happened in her life. When she was 60 she finally got the message that I’d been giving her for decades. “You are a fucking adult and have been for decades. You have been able to make your own decisions without having mom’s approval, why aren’t you?” She became a much happier person after that. But conservative propaganda is always, always trying to find someone else to fucking blame than the fuckstick that stares back at them in the mirror. And 99% of the time it’s that fuckstick that is the 100% of the problem.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
This is really scary to me. I’ve read that South Korea had similar demographic problems with too many men, but they were able to manage by a combination of men emigrating and women immigrating. China and India are just too huge to make that strategy work; there aren’t enough places for their men to go or for women to come from to get their gender ratio back in balance.
Elizabelle
@TenguPhule: Liza Mundy (then of the WaPost) wrote a great article, I think around or before 9/11, about how the Taliban systematically removed women from the public sphere. Because they are a moderating force.
Roger Moore
@Elizabelle:
Apparently it’s a corporate policy. We’ll see if the money they make is worth the bad publicity from this case.
Calvin
I feel like the race question probably plays a part, but a smaller part than the mental health issue. Guy was clearly deeply disturbed, and Texas has a bad track record of executing mentally ill people, so that could be a political decision not to go for the death penalty right away.
At the end of the day, I oppose the death penalty in 100% of cases, even in a case as egregious as this, but especially in a clearly mentally unsound person such as this.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
In the future these guys will have robot girlfriends, so—problem solved!
Probably better than the flying cars we were promised in the ’60s.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
*Species compatibility not guaranteed.
Elizabelle
@Roger Moore: Had never heard of such a policy. Bizarre. And they sure aren’t worth the — what, 50 cents? — demanded. A penny or two or three included in the charge would be plenty.
TenguPhule
@Steve in the ATL:
Have you ever seen British Football fans?
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: Well put.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore: Historically the solution was to find ways to cull the excessive amounts of young men through wars of aggression. Win or lose the numbers would drop and if they won, plunder solved the problem of not enough women.
There hasn’t been this many excess males of military age since WW I.
WereBear
@Elizabelle: When Wall Street demands higher profits every quarter it has to come from somewhere.
Elizabelle
@Steve in the ATL: Soccer fields, other stuff … they need something.
I don’t understand why we have religions, primarily, that insist on chastity when we are in a time of long lifespans and available contraception. Who wants to marry their first or even second boyfriend? I mean, it happens occasionally and people are quite happy, but that seems so the exception. Chastity, or not, should be a personal choice.
I think the Catholic Church should get the hell out of sexual matters — they are no good at it. Men in dresses and a 2,000 year old book. Uh, no.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Because you’re not a man obsessed with passing on their bloodline through certified virgins and who believes in sons instead of daughters. The entire enterprise is insane.
Elizabelle
@Felanius Kootea: Great comment. I have wondered about that myself.
chris
FYWP! It’s eaten two comments now.
Have a platypus!
https://twitter.com/milanesanapolin/status/987335011312418816
Mary G
Jay
@Elizabelle:
MGTOW’s stands for Men Going Their Own Way,
GGG is a Dan Savage acronym for partners who are Good, Game, Giving.
Like Nazi’s, there arn’t that many of them. A few thousand Globally, but the forums, sites and web, amplifies their voices. A bunch got involved because of Gamergate, but how many are just trolls out for LUTZ and how many actually “believe”, is hard to say.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
There is a reason that it is more commonly known as the Awful House. And yes I’ve eaten there on a few occasions. I will say that it was always better than McDs. I wouldn’t eat there unless no place else is open and I haven’t eaten in over 20 hrs and I can’t say that about McDs and White Castle. Those I refuse even if starvation arrives in 5 minutes. Starvation is better.
chris
@Mnemosyne: Maybe at “We Hunted the Mammoth.” David Futrelle has been writing about PUAs for years.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus:
The jokes write themselves.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus:
Sometimes when you’re down in the dumps, a Dibbler’s special sausage in a bun is exactly what you need.
rave
@Ruckus: Awful Waffle
Jay
@Matt McIrvin:
I found it easy. Listen, ask questions based on what she was saying, be a feminist, like women, be polite, don’t expect anything, have fun, laugh, and if she’s interested, she’ll make it happen.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule:
Surely you know that the gender imbalance in China isn’t due to a lack of wars.
Roger Moore
@Elizabelle:
I think it’s like airline checked bag fees. They’re trying to squeeze a little bit of extra money out of people without formally raising their prices.
rikyrah
The good doctor didn’t take the hint and withdraw. So, now folks gotta spill on him.
Tester on NPR:
1. Hostile work environment
2. DRUNK WHILE ON DUTY!
Bye Dr. You played yourself. About to be asked to retire. Count on it.
Calvin
@Jay:
The Incel mentality is 100% externally focused; they lack understanding, on a basic level, that relationships require a sacrifice of autonomy and a degree of self-improvement, and they blame their lack of sexual and romantic success on everyone but themselves. Giving them relationship advice about themselves doesn’t work, because they are completely unwilling to take the step of changing themselves even slightly to be more appealing to women.
gene108
@Elizabelle:
MGTOW = Men Going Their Own Way
Mary G
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Around that same time, I read an op-ed from the WSJ by a Turkish businesswoman explaining why she refused to wear a burka. She pointed to the dishonesty of conservative authorities who insisted burkas were required to protect women, when in fact burkas were really needed to protect men from themselves. They just can’t help themselves, it seems.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Ruckus:
I’ve eaten at both of these. And I have to disagree with that. When McD’s is at its best, it’s good.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Have you seen Egyptian football fans? IIRC, organized Egyptian football fandom was big in overthrowing Mubarak because they were one of the few organized non-religious, non-government controlled groups allowed under his rule.
The Lodger
@TenguPhule: Dibbler’s special sausage? Tell me you’re kidding.
NorthLeft12
Seems to me that people here are getting mad at the wrong person. The shooter’s father deserves some scrutiny of course, but why in the hell did the cops give the father his son’s weapons with the “promise” [for what that is worth] to keep them secure, and supposedly away from his son? WTF!!??
What on earth is the logic here? What right did the father have to be given possession of his son’s weapons? Anyone?
Jay
@Calvin:
Some are just online trolls out for the LUTZ and the harassment. A form of sociopathy made possible by online anonaminity.
The rest, are just morons.
The entire collected knowedge of the entire human species is just a mouse click away, and they click on “vagina traps” instead.
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
I’m an old white guy and I hate, hate this. For fucks sake it’s 2018 not 1818 and this racist, misogynistic crap is still here and now there are semi automatic weapons involved. What the ever loving fuck?
My fellow white men – GROW THE FUCK UP FOR FUCKS SAKE. You had a shitty run, sack up, suck it up and move the fuck on.
No one is entitled to a great life at the expense of someone else. No one is entitled to a life at the expense of someone else. For any reason. Their color, their gender, anything.
And I think at the root of this is money. Specifically the concept of zero sum, that there is only X amount of money in the entire universe. This is a consequence of education being downgraded, year after year, decade after decade. That only rich people deserved more money. That working doesn’t mean that you will be able to afford a place to live. That being willing to work may not be enough to be even basically successful. That theft from the many is not only OK but is respected. That wages that allow a large percentage of the population to actually be in poverty. That there really is not much in the way of economic mobility because of that theft from many. Etc, etc, etc, etc……
And worst of all it doesn’t have to be this way at all.
ETA I am not trying to downplay racism and misogyny, not at all. I am saying that if you look back far enough I think that money is the root of the issue. Racism and misogyny have taken on lives of their own, but I don’t think they can be solved without tackling the money issue at the same time. The are different issues but they are connected.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@NorthLeft12:
The Holy 2nd Amendment, that’s how.
Also: gun freaks are blowing up coolers.
Calvin
@NorthLeft12:
The Illinois law in question allowed for the guns to be given to the father upon their confiscation. This is obviously stupid, but probably a political concession; as a lot of big firearm owners are rural poor, permanent confiscation and destruction could remove in one fell swoop thousands of dollars worth of value from a household which can’t spare it; at least this way a family member could sell the firearms to get the cash back to the family in question. Obviously that system has been proven a failiure by this instance, but it’s not totally unreasonable.
Calvin
@Jay:
I think you’re underestimating the impact a lack of positive female interaction can have on a man’s brain. I’m not trying to excuse the behavior of incels, (anybody who refers to women as “roasties” and “femoids” is gross on a multitude of levels) but it’s a hell of a lot easier to blame women than it is to blame yourself, even if anybody who can rub two brain cells together can tell that attracting female attention is a question of self-improvement.
Ruckus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
I’ve had massive food poisoning from McDs. I figured the first time was a fluke, it happens. The second time was in different state and a different year. That was the last time I stepped into McDs. The first time I was sure that death was on it’s way. Fever of 104+ for 3 days, projectile vomiting that made the Exorcist look like a kids party, twice. regular once after that, couldn’t eat for almost a week. Fuck McDs.
Anne Laurie
@Elizabelle:
It’s always been a primary reason for ‘standing’ (peacetime) armies: Gather all the excess-to-immediate needs young men in one place, run their excess energies off by drilling & training, let the older ‘professional warriors’ teach the kids how the culture’s version of Real Men are supposed to behave. It’s still a useful model — look at folks like our blog host, for instance!
To be honest, I suspect in the days when rampant disease, periodic famine, and hard physical labor were the norm, there just weren’t as many ‘marginal’ young men who made it past puberty. Kids ‘on the spectrum’ either underwent a degree of behavior modification training now regarded as abusive, or they ended up dead because they failed to figure out in time how dangerous cooking fires / livestock / adult strangers / taking the wrong dare could be. And without modern weapon technology & social media, that one weirdo in every village whose family couldn’t get him married off because all the other families knew how potentially dangerous he would be to a partner / his own kids just didn’t have the scope such angry young men do today.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
The problem is that these communities basically up the rhetoric again and again until someone snaps and does what all of the others have been egging each other on to do. It reminds me of the guy who tried to kidnap Elie Weisel to get Weisel to “confess” that the Holocaust never happened and Weisel was never in a concentration camp. The guy had spent a huge amount of time on Holocaust denial site and message boards with people telling him over and over again that these things were true. He was only a “lone wolf” in the sense that he was the only one crazy enough to actually act on all of the rhetoric.
Jay
@Major Major Major Major:
As of 2015, China had roughly 700 million men, and 667 million women. That’s a ratio of 0.952:1, it’s actually not a huge disparity.
Litchenstien has the worlds greatest gender imballence, but nobody’s afraid of Lictenstien.
It sound’s a lot “scarier” when you say 33 million “excess” men, but they arn’t really “excess”. China’s Workplace Health and Safety standards will see to that.
Elizabelle
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I guess Yeti pulled the NRA’s discount? Let ’em shoot ’em up. Plenty of other customers who won’t.
Anne Laurie
@Steeplejack:
If you’ve ever read any of the RealDoll news stories… believe me, there are guys out there who should be issued a full-function sex doll, just for the protection of the live women / children / household pets in their vicinity.
Of course, there’s even more people (of both sexes, to be fair) who “need” a (holographic?) audience even more than they need a sexual outlet. Given the technology, wouldn’t it be better for everyone if someone like Donald J. Trump was strutting & bloviating on a holodeck, rather than IRL?
Jay
@Calvin:
Been through a Divorce. Before, I had about 12 close female friends, during and after, my Sister in Law and my dying Mom.
And yes, during the break up, the separation and divorce, I got “screwed over”, but the answer was not to hang around in the RW or Online with Crank Magnatism nutjobs who hated Women.
Barbara
@Jay: The Washington Post did a series of stories on this. The problem is that 33 million is not spread out across all generations. It’s disproportionately within a specific age cohort, so it is actually scarier than you make it seem. It is also not distributed evenly across Chinese (or Indian) territories. So there are many rural men whose chances of finding a native wife are practically nil. The articles are worth reading. They examine the issue from multiple aspects.
Viva BrisVegas
@Elizabelle:
They’ve probably always been there.
I heard it said that 1% of the population can be defined as psychopaths. At least half of that 1% are going to be below average intelligence.
That and internet amplification would be enough to explain most Men’s Rights Groups.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
Yup, many forums and online communities have become cesspools of stochastic terrorism. A bunch of Reddit user’s launched a bunch of internal coups of some of the worst Reddit groups, when Reddit refused to take action.
In the absence of Platform’s doing their own policing, it’s falling on Online Groups to take action.
Still,
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/23/youtube-alex-jones-sandy-hook-media-matters-video
Calvin
@Jay:
Again, not excusing it. For a certain kind of person, it’s easier to blame other people than look at yourself, and that impulse for self-protection (even when it’s protecting the fact that you’re a garbage human being) is the primary motivation for the incels I’ve seen and interacted with in the wild.
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: I agree. It seems simple enough to recognize.
Jay
@Barbara:
I live in a Province with a large male gender disparity, in specific age groups, scattered across the Province, in predominantly rural areas. It’s been that way since 1873, with a slight flattening from 1914 to 1945, caused by WW1, then the opening of the Province to homesteading, the Great Depression and then WWII.
It’s “normal” when a lot of the economy is built around farming, fishing, logging, mining, major construction projects. It flattens out in the mid 30’s age group as women move back to the smaller communities to have families, then skews upwards for women as the men die off.
Elie
@ruemara:
Amen, Amen
There is just fear and anxiety. Not only do you know (as a black person), that what you do normally might get you killed, but that many many whites do not actually know what you are talking about — not for real…
A white friend asked me to her house when she is off site due to an illness. She wanted me to retrieve some inhalation therapy supplies with her black respiratory therapist in her home, during the day. Both of us are black. I have to tell you, though it worked out fine, both of us were nervous. Can you see two black people going into some white person’s home during the day and walking out with bags filled with shit? How horrible is this? She needed the stuff, but I was imagining headlines ” black friend shot by neighbor helping friend to get supplies from home”. This is just a horrible state of being! My friend was totally anxious until we left the house, fearful for our safety, even though this is insane!
Amir Khalid
@TenguPhule:
It is not only a British affliction. Did you see the Russian fans at Euro 2016? The Russian sports minister travelled to the tournament with a ringleader of the most violent fans. The Russian hooligans got so bad that UEFA threatened to throw Russia out of the competition. The football hooligan problem has been greatly reduced since its peak in England, which has the biggest clubs and the most traditionally unruly fans in Britain, thanks to action by clubs, supporters organisations, and the police.
Matt McIrvin
@Jay: Wasn’t for me, and I mentioned the main reason why: I’d get infatuated with a specific person who was nice to me but not particularly interested, then get in the “befriend her and try to induce interest that way” trap. You know, what these assholes call “friendzoning” as if they’re not doing it to themselves.
This happened over and over until my mid-twenties when some switch flipped in my brain and I stopped doing it. I think there was a lack of emotional control. And some difficulty reading signals.
Matt
@Mnemosyne: Related question: could a QAnon “true believer” pass a psych screen? What’s the line between “bamboozled by propaganda” and “literally disconnected from reality”?
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I am aware. But historically the way the problem was solved was by finding new exciting ways to get those extra males killed.