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You are here: Home / Immigration / Lyin’ Ryan Is the Fig Leaf for Trump’s Racist Immigration Agenda

Lyin’ Ryan Is the Fig Leaf for Trump’s Racist Immigration Agenda

by Betty Cracker|  May 11, 201812:12 pm| 191 Comments

This post is in: Immigration, Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Ryan Lyin' Weasel, Assholes, General Stupidity

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One of the few amusements the Trump Error affords is reading accounts of awful people getting dressed down by an even more awful person. From Greg Sargent at The Post:

The New York Times reports that Trump erupted in a rage at Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen and other Cabinet members over the alleged failure to make “progress towards sealing the border.” According to the Times, Trump also raged about the “continued failure of his administration to find a way to build a wall along the southern border.”

The Post adds more reporting, noting that Trump’s “blowup lasted more than 30 minutes.” His face “reddened” as he railed that Nielsen must “close down” the border and shouted: “We need to shut it down. We’re closed.”

Other outlets reported that Nielsen, who tried to explain the complexity of the border situation but was shouted down, “almost resigned” over Trump’s tirade, composing but not handing in a resignation letter.

Gary Cohn allegedly wrote but didn’t submit a resignation letter after Trump defended Nazis in Charlottesville. I guess the unsubmitted resignation letter is the cabinet/adviser version of “Ivanka privately opposes.”

In The Post, Sargent points out Paul Ryan’s towering hypocrisy on the immigration issue:

Vulnerable Republicans in the House are pushing a discharge petition that would force a vote on immigration bills, including two measures that would grant the dreamers legal status, one of them packaged with fortifications to border security. Seventeen Republicans have signed the petition, meaning that if organizers can get eight more, it would pass, since Dems will support it — forcing a full House vote on whether the dreamers will be protected or remain in limbo.

Ryan is trying to stop this from happening. He justifies this by claiming that there’s no sense in voting on measures protecting the dreamers that Trump would veto. As Ryan put it: “We actually would like to solve this problem, and that is why I think it’s important for us to come up with a solution that the president can support.”

But this is utter nonsense, because there isn’t any deal that Trump is willing to support that can pass Congress… Ryan is trying to prevent a vote to protect the dreamers precisely because such a measure could pass the House… A deal protecting the dreamers in exchange for border security would probably pass the House by a comfortable margin, and it might pass the Senate — after all, passage in the House would bring tremendous pressure on moderate Republican senators — especially if the White House didn’t actively lobby against it.

But Trump will not accept any deal to protect the dreamers, even though it could very likely pass both chambers, unless it also contains deep cuts to legal immigration. So if the House passed it, the White House would lobby the Senate against it, and if that failed, Trump would then have to veto it. Either of those would look horrible, because after House passage, suddenly protections for the dreamers would appear in reach. This is the spectacle that Ryan is trying to avert — all to protect Trump from having his true priorities revealed in all their ugly glory.

Ryan no longer has to worry about reelection or hanging onto the speaker’s gavel, but he’s willing to hold a fig leaf over Trump’s ugly bits. Why? Because the Republican Party hopes to stock the courts with more fanatics, enable corporations to pollute and despoil without regulatory oversight and slash programs and policies that benefit the vulnerable, and while Trump is a big, fat, embarrassing, racist baby-man, he’ll happily sign that shit if they call it a “win” for him.

Oh well. At least we won’t be subjected to paeans about Ryan’s wonkishness, fiscal rectitude and principled conservatism much longer since he’s gonna cut and run after this term expires. That day can’t come soon enough.

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Reader Interactions

191Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    Other outlets reported that Nielsen, who tried to explain the complexity of the border situation but was shouted down, “almost resigned” over Trump’s tirade, composing but not handing in a resignation letter.

    Bullshyt.
    That unqualified heifer, who killed people during Katrina, no more almost resigned than John Kelly or Sean Spicer.

  2. 2.

    Barbara

    May 11, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    I no longer know what the percentages are, but a lot of people who are in the U.S. without legal status flew here legally and didn’t go back. This isn’t a hard concept.

  3. 3.

    Jeffro

    May 11, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    Jennifer Rubin really let Ryan and Kelly have it today over this, too.

  4. 4.

    Ferdinand

    May 11, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    In other news, I admit to being on pins and needles for today’s Friday news drops. Mr. Avenatti (may he live long and prosper) tweeted this about 30 minutes ago:
    “Let this serve as formal notice – there is significantly more evidence and facts to come relating to Mr. Cohen’s dealings and Mr. Trump’s knowledge and involvement. You can come clean now or wait to be outed. Your choice. We have only just begun…#Basta”
    I also confess to being clueless what #Basta refers to. He uses it regularly.

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    May 11, 2018 at 12:20 pm

    @Ferdinand: I think it means “enough” in Italian.

  6. 6.

    SenyorDave

    May 11, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    @rikyrah: Exactly. I’m tired of reading about these “people of principle” who are so outraged they almost quit, until they start thinking about the money or power they have. Here’s an example of somebody with real principles (from Reuter,s Jan 18, 2018):

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Ambassador to Panama John Feeley, a career diplomat and former Marine Corps helicopter pilot, has resigned, saying he no longer felt able to serve President Donald Trump.

  7. 7.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    Ryan no longer has to worry about reelection or hanging onto the speaker’s gavel, but he’s willing to hold a fig leaf over Trump’s ugly bits. Why? Because the Republican Party hopes to stock the courts with more fanatics, enable corporations to pollute and despoil without regulatory oversight and slash programs and policies that benefit the vulnerable, and while Trump is a big, fat, embarrassing, racist baby-man, he’ll happily sign that shit if they call it a “win” for him.

    Also, Ryan a traitor and if he doesn’t go along with what his owners want they’ll release what they have on him and his life will be over. He knows this.

  8. 8.

    rachel

    May 11, 2018 at 12:22 pm

    At least we won’t be subjected to paeans about Ryan’s wonkishness, fiscal rectitude and principled conservatism much longer since he’s gonna cut and run after this term expires.

    Really? I think his no longer being in office may just make them think more fondly of him.

  9. 9.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 11, 2018 at 12:22 pm

    I don’t buy the resignation bit. T has taken away the plausible deniability of the I am not a racist wing of the R party (translation: I am a fucking racist, but I don’t like to be called on it)

  10. 10.

    JPL

    May 11, 2018 at 12:23 pm

    @Ferdinand: He needs to stop with the tease and just release the info. Basta is basta, assuming Betty’s translation is correct.

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    I always wonder how these “almost resignations” continue to be leaked. This is like what, 5 or 6 high profile members of the admin who have been so troubled by something that they almost felt like doing something about it?
    “Dear Diary, today that mean old mister trump said some really awful things at me. And it was in front of others, two! I thought real hard about being a fully grown person but then realized no one would ever hire me again anyway. So then I had pb&j for lunch with some choc milk and decided to feel better!”

  12. 12.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:24 pm

    @Ferdinand:

    In other news, I admit to being on pins and needles for today’s Friday news drops.

    People are skeptical of John Schindler but he tweeted this today:

    Trump White House is about to have a bad day….heads-up— John Schindler (@20committee) May 11, 2018

    Would be nice if it’s true! We haven’t had a good, solid Friday news dump in awhile.

  13. 13.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    @JPL: Disagree. He’s playing Trump’s media game better than Trump. The tease is part of it. Avenatti is doing a fantastic job of representing his client.

  14. 14.

    Ferdinand

    May 11, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    I really can’t see a path forward for the Donald if public evidence emerges that the shady money to Cohen was funneled to Donald, or other Donald-centric payoffs. Right? While it might take months to play out, that feels like the boss battle deathblow where we’re certain he’ll bleed out as long as we hold on long enough.
    As savvy as I’ve worked to be following this nightmare tale for two years, I confess I didn’t see the twist coming that all the seedy “back channels” to foreign oligarchs that we freaked out about a year ago, and that got so much rolling with Flynn’s Russian meetings, look likely to turn out to have little to do with plots by foreign powers to seek specific acts by the DT administration. Instad they seem likely to have been about asking for “favor” in exchange for immediate cold hard cash.
    I’ve definitely shifted fully in to Josh Marshall’s camp of “everything is explained by the fact that Trump is broke, and will say and do anything for money.” In the end, it really is just that base and venal. That’s the twist for me, I suppose, the fact that such harm can flow from such shallowness. The banality of evil.

  15. 15.

    dmsilev

    May 11, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    At least we won’t be subjected to paeans about Ryan’s wonkishness, fiscal rectitude and principled conservatism much longer since he’s gonna cut and run after this term expires.

    My, you’re an optimist. He’ll be a guest of the Serious Beltway Media shows for the next 50 or so years.

  16. 16.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:28 pm

    Reading about Trump going into a 30 minute rage, red faced, shouting, made me remember:
    When I was a full time trial attorney defending various citizens (and non!) charged with acts of mis- or malfeasance, my friend and I came up with the concept of “coronary contempt.” If you can outrage the judge so much that s/he will have a heart attack on the bench, you probably will not be help in contempt and sent to jail.

    A useful idea for Whitehouse staff?

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 12:29 pm

    @JPL: Agreed. Tired of all the “through a glass, darkly” nonsense. Either announce what you’ve got or at least announce when you’ll be announcing the dirt.

  18. 18.

    cintibud

    May 11, 2018 at 12:31 pm

    HELP PLEASE!

    I posted a long comment in the last thread about prescription drugs a couple hours ago that went into moderation and I’ve received no response to my request for help there. I just tried posting it again but it still went into moderation. I assume the problem is that I mention a specific prescription drug in a post about prescription drugs. Could someone please release one of my two posts in that thread please?

  19. 19.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    @Ferdinand:

    if public evidence emerges that the shady money to Cohen was funneled to Donald, or other Donald-centric payoff

    You’re talking about a man who told his caceeknow manager to stop donating a $1000 to a local chairty for goodwill purposes. There is no way Cohen made money off Trump that didn’t end up all or most in Trump’s pockets.

  20. 20.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker: “basta” is sort of a combination of, as you say, “enough” and (when my friends parents yelled it) “stop!” “I’ve had enough!” “Stop your foolishness.” That sorta thing.

  21. 21.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    May 11, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    @Ferdinand: I have a serious question to all the lawyer commenters. How pissed off must the judge be in Cohen’s New York case that he failed to disclose that through his shell LLC his clients were more than Trump, the other guy and Hannity, but also ATT&T, Novartis and the Korean company. Is she just going to shrug it off or is she going to hold Cohen and his attorney in contempt for not disclosing that? She specifically asked Cohen to name all his clients. In a filing I just read today Cohen’s attorney is claiming that Avenatti should not be granted Pro Hac Vice status because he should first disclose where he got the info from. In the filing Cohen’s lawyer states the following “The details of when Mr. Cohen was paid by these business clients ” So he (and his lawyer) LIED to the court about his clients. From what I remember about Judges they really, really hate being lied to. Any insight would be appreciated.

  22. 22.

    Mary G

    May 11, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    Yeah, Zombie Ryan won’t die. I can see him working for Fox or even a real network, because he has a face for TV and a good line of patter. Probably won’t pay well enough, though. He’ll write a bestselling book about how much it pained him to have to go along with Twitler and run for president to redeem the Republican party in the worst case scenario.

  23. 23.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    @Ferdinand:

    if public evidence emerges that the shady money to Cohen was funneled to Donald, or other Donald-centric payoffs. Right?

    That is called “bribery.” It’s in the constitution under “impeachment.”

  24. 24.

    Ferdinand

    May 11, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    @JPL: I agree, I am impatient with the teasing. But in his defense, Avenatti seems to be playing a dangerous game, perhaps modelling how public investigations need to be styled in the 21st century. Mueller has all of this, of course, but Mueller cannot seem to be swayed by the court of public opinion. Avenatti by contrast can seek and capture and coordinate media moments, an ideal complement to what we all hope is the thorough Special Counsel work being done. Avenatti led off the week, and countered the likely timed take out of Schneiderman, but turning all talk to the payouts to Cohen. He’s given the mainstream media a week to catch up, source, and interview those who paid. He’s given the administration, including Sarah Sanders, time to deny this is connected to Trump in any way, and is entirely a private matter. He’s said all along that he has more. He’s already tweeted today and shown he has emails between Cohen and Stormy’s first shady lawyer who negotiated the sketchy NDA.
    So, I’m guessing the way his strategy is playing out that he won’t sit out a weekend news cycle, because events are moving too fast now. I’m hoping he’ll drop proof – emails, bank documents – that the money that went in to Cohen’s slush account (that paid Stormy, and took in all the bribes) also paid out that money directly to Donald, or spent it on Donald’s behalf with Donald’s knowledge.
    If so, then I think we’re definitely past “tick tock” and in to (thinking on Dr. Strange and Infinity War) the Endgame. Time to put on our angry faces.

  25. 25.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    @Ferdinand: John Schindler has been teasing about a big news dump today, too. I take him with several pounds of salt, but he hasn’t been this specific in quite a while.

  26. 26.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Simply put, it is not clear that people paying him were law clients. Claiming that AT$T was a legal client would perhaps cause more problems than saying he was a consultant or advisor (not a lawyer) to those companies. Now, whether he was an unregistered lobbyist….

  27. 27.

    Cacti

    May 11, 2018 at 12:37 pm

    Well, we do live in the age of the participation trophy.

    I guess almost taking a stand is what passes for good character these days.

  28. 28.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    his clients were more than Trump, the other guy and Hannity,

    Cohen did not say “the other guy” (Broidy) was his client. He’s not. Avenatti pointed this out. The media is stupid and assumed Broidy was his client. Cohen did not state that in court.

  29. 29.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    @Yarrow: This is what I get for commenting without reading the whole thread first…

  30. 30.

    James Powell

    May 11, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    At least we won’t be subjected to paeans about Ryan’s wonkishness, fiscal rectitude and principled conservatism much longer since he’s gonna cut and run after this term expires.

    Are we sure about that? The press/media created Paul Ryan, Principled Man of Principles & Budgetary Genius Who Only Cares About the Debt. They aren’t going to give him up.

    I expect he will be the go-to guy for all The Shows when they need a guest to talk about cutting Social Security & Medicare. His own relationship to deficits and debt will never be mentioned. Eventually, he will chair the next incarnation of the Simpson Bowles group. He will complain on The Shows that Obama ruined everything by failing to implement its recommendations. His own response to Simpson Bowles will never be mentioned.

  31. 31.

    indycat32

    May 11, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I’m not a lawyer but I think the difference is “business client” vs. “lawyer-client”. The judge was asking who he represented as a lawyer

  32. 32.

    Wumpus

    May 11, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt

    The judge asked for a list of Cohen’s *legal* clients. AT&T etc. were business consulting clients; Cohen wasn’t giving them legal advice (or business consulting either, it turns out. But the point is he wasn’t pretending to be their lawyer.

  33. 33.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    @Yarrow: Plus, I think he is trying to strew some bread crumbs for our lazy MSM.

  34. 34.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    @Ferdinand: Not just broke, but petty and penny-ante.

  35. 35.

    germy

    May 11, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    “Let this serve as formal notice – there is significantly more evidence and facts to come relating to Mr. Cohen’s dealings and Mr. Trump’s knowledge and involvement. You can come clean now or wait to be outed. Your choice. We have only just begun…#Basta”

    I checked the replies to Avenatti’s tweet and saw this:

    I've been with @ATT for over 12 years. Today at 11:21am I switched to @verizon because AT&T did dirty business with Trump & Michael Cohen. Once my new SIM arrives next week, no more AT&T. #basta pic.twitter.com/ArmTjqXQz3— Grey_Obelisk (@Grey_Obelisk) May 11, 2018

    Verizon is just as bad. I use string and paper cups.— Rick Gene (@RickGeneComedy) May 11, 2018

    We don't want you to use string and paper cups Rick. We want you to get the service you pay for. What is your zip code? How long have had issues with service? What phone do you have? ^KH— Verizon Wireless CS (@VZWSupport) May 11, 2018

  36. 36.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    @Yarrow: This is one of the most critical details because it means communications between Cohen and Broidy that were seized in the wiretaps and searches will not be privileged as attorney/client material. What’s that you always say?

    And, if in fact Broidy was not the father of the playmate mini-me, I suspect that he will be chatting with the Feds to save his otherwise seemingly normal family life.

  37. 37.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 11, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @Barbara:

    a lot of people who are in the U.S. without legal status flew here legally and didn’t go back.

    I believe the president is married to one.

    Edit: Or was the issue that she worked on a tourist visa? I forget

  38. 38.

    James Powell

    May 11, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    @Jeffro:

    I wonder if there was a time when Jennifer Rubin believed she was an important voice for Republicans. Or maybe she knew the whole time that she was just a tool that would be discarded and ignored the minute she was no longer useful.

  39. 39.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    What strikes me about this article is how incredibly racist Trump is. It’s not out of line with what we know of him, but here is a guy who not only wants to end immigration from Latin America, but spent half an hour raging about it at a meeting. He is seriously, seriously emotionally invested in hating brown people.

    @Mary G:
    I don’t think this is true. The book part, maybe. He might get someone to ghostwrite it. The thing is, Ryan being telegenic is like him being a wonk, a carefully media managed fabrication. Actually give him air time, and he says the most godawful shit without realizing what an ignorant, poor-hating ass he is. And frankly, he ain’t bright. He’s had his whole life handed to him on a silver platter by friends.

  40. 40.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    @Manyakitty: Great minds…

    @Manyakitty: I think he’s doing his best by his client and if that means playing the dumb media to give them places to look, then that’s what he’s going to do. He’s sharp and sees how this game is played and is playing all of them like a fiddle. It’s fantastic to watch.

    @Immanentize: Yep. Everyone will talk to the Feds to save their skin because it’s pretty obvious even to the dumbest of them that Trump’s loyalty only goes one way.

  41. 41.

    Cacti

    May 11, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Or was the issue that she worked on a tourist visa? I forget

    Worked on a tourist visa.

    There’s also the possibility that she fraudulently listed herself as a university graduate in her immigration paperwork.

  42. 42.

    eschneider

    May 11, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    @Immanentize: I’ve literally done that to two bosses over the years.

  43. 43.

    sukabi

    May 11, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    @Yarrow: such a dilemma it’s hard to choose…evil or squeezed?

    I think that whatever is being held over Ryan has to be out of the ordinary even for a Republican…

  44. 44.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    May 11, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Immanentize: My mistake I assumed that when a lawyer receives money from someone they are then deemed a “client”, and therefore covered under the attorney-client privilege doctrine. As you say though how Cohen can claim that they were not clients but he was being paid to be an “advisor” would put him squarely in the “lobbyist” category in which case he is fucked because he is not registered as such, putting them in the “client” category (which his lawyer did) would mean that he did not disclose that fact to the Judge which means he is also fucked, because he (and his lawyer) lied to the judge. This is not going to end well.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Yarrow: If he’s referring to all the bad news he’s putting out about our Amb to Germany, Grenell, then the WH won’t have a bad 15 minutes. Much less a bad whole day.

  46. 46.

    Major Major Major Major

    May 11, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Cacti: I try not to clutter my mind with such things, you see.

  47. 47.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: She worked on a tourist visa.

  48. 48.

    Humdog

    May 11, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Where are the Kochs? They want increased immigration, but maybe not citizenship, so they will have an exploitable workforce. Are all the biz concerns willing to subordinate themselves to the racists of the party?
    I hate playing oligarch wars, but here we are thanks to 63million shitheads.

  49. 49.

    catclub

    May 11, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @Ferdinand:

    Donald if public evidence emerges that the shady money to Cohen was funneled to Donald, or other Donald-centric payoffs. Right? While it might take months to play out, that feels like the boss battle deathblow

    I wish I shared your optimism. The Virginia governor who (McDonnell) got away with getting bribes because they were not for a specific
    quid pro quo government action, paved the way. Paying for access is not actually illegal. If I know it, so will the lawyers.

  50. 50.

    Vor

    May 11, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @Cacti: and of course her parents were the beneficiaries of chain migration.iOKIYAR.

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @Barbara: Yep, unauthorized overstay numbers are much larger than what is coming across the southern border.

  52. 52.

    Steve in the ATL

    May 11, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Broidy wasn’t a client. It was trump, the trump organization, ave Sean hannity.

  53. 53.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    May 11, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Trump’s reaction to having his veto overridden would be EPIC.

    Do it.

  54. 54.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    At least we won’t be subjected to paeans about Ryan’s wonkishness, fiscal rectitude and principled conservatism much longer since he’s gonna cut and run after this term expires. That day can’t come soon enough.

    Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows are going to be so much better as leaders of the GOP House caucus.

  55. 55.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    @Corner Stone: I would just like a good, old fashioned Friday news dump. That’s not too much to ask, is it?

  56. 56.

    sukabi

    May 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    @Yarrow: really? It feels like EVERY FUCKING DAY IS A FRIDAY NEWS DUMP.

    But if he’s right, it would have to be something extraordinarily bad for drumpf

  57. 57.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    @Yarrow: Right? I watched him on Rachel the other night and when he launched into his explanation, then punctuated it with, “Now why does that matter?” or something, I felt the presence of a masterful litigator. He is sharp AF, and, I suspect, a total nerd about the law.

  58. 58.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Which is why Cohen’s best move is to flip on Trump, if that offer is even on the table. He’s totally fucked.

  59. 59.

    sdhays

    May 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    @Corner Stone: Your comment reminds me of a rather sad and almost humanizing story from 2016 about how Eric had an actual charity focused on real charitable work (rather than grifting) and was using Trump properties as free venues. When old man Spanky found out, he flipped and made sure that never happened again – charity events paid the same as anybody else, even if the charity was run by his son.

    So, yeah. The money went to Donny Small-hands.

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Jeffro: As much as I appreciate her doing so, so what? These guys didn’t read WaPo before she’d had enough, they’re not reading it now. They read the Hill, the Washington Times, the Washington Examiner, and the Washington Free Beacon, in addition to Drudge, Dim Jim, Trumpbart, and Gentry Breitbart (the Federalist). It’s a closed ecosystem that just sling shots the same crap around and around and around.

  61. 61.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Vor: @Cacti: Don’t forget that anchor baby!

  62. 62.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    @sdhays: Was it about his wife and the animal charity?

  63. 63.

    cckids

    May 11, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Other outlets reported that Nielsen, who tried to explain the complexity of the border situation but was shouted down, “almost resigned” over Trump’s tirade, composing but not handing in a resignation letter.

    Bullshyt.
    That unqualified heifer, who killed people during Katrina, no more almost resigned than John Kelly or Sean Spicer.

    Oh, I believe she wrote a letter of resignation. Because she was publicly humiliated by Trump, not because of his awful, inhumane ideas about immigration. THOSE are the reason she stayed, and will eat another helping of shit next time.

  64. 64.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    @eschneider: I don’t know whether to be horrified or applaud your powers! But, I guess it’s not binary. :-)

  65. 65.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    @Corner Stone: Its an attempt at devaluing strain. The President is a toxic leader and boss. He also seems to be passive aggressive, or, perhaps, aggressively passive. So the people that have either chosen to work for him, or have been assigned (the detailees on the National Security Staff), have to come up with a way to devalue the strain that results from the situation. Venting to people, including friends and subordinates, and making it okay that they can leak about it, that one is prepared to resign because of all the crap they’re taking is one way to do it. I’m not sure why Nielsen or those around her thinks this makes her look good as it wasn’t a threat to resign on principle, but to resign because the boss treated her terribly.

  66. 66.

    sdhays

    May 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @Manyakitty: No, I don’t think so. As I recall, it was when he was fresh out of college and may not have even been married yet. It involved golf tournament charity events.

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @Manyakitty: I know! I get that people want him to say what he has, but the tease, the dragging it out, the showing up on many cable news shows, the trolling of Fox—it’s all brilliant. He’s so sharp and he’s doing a fantastic job for his client. I love what he’s doing. I’m fine watching it play out rather than insisting he put up or shut up. That’s the exact wrong strategy for his client in this situation.

  68. 68.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @Immanentize: Scott Lemieux here:

    Quid Pro Cohen

    quotes Jonathan Martin of FTF Vichy Times saying in effect “HRC woulda been worse”.

    I guess that means “nothing to see here, folks, just move along”.

    Or sumpthin’.

    The Vichy Times just can’t let go of Hillary. She’s catnip to them.

  69. 69.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    You wanna tell me again that it’s not about White Supremacy?

    …………..

    Michigan Republicans wrote a bill that imposes Medicaid work requirements on mostly black cities but exempts mostly white suburbs and rural areas. https://t.co/6KvpGaTXv2

    — Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) May 11, 2018

  70. 70.

    Cheap Jim, formerly known as Cheap Jim

    May 11, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Anyway, so what if anyone did read her. I’m old enough to remember Rubin blaming Anders Breivik’s atrocities on wholly imaginary Norwegian jihadists. She’s a fabulist at best, and possibly a slimeball.

  71. 71.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    @Humdog:

    Where are the Kochs? They want increased immigration, but maybe not citizenship, so they will have an exploitable workforce.

    The Kochs are racist as all holy Hell. Just as Trump is the platonic ideal of the mouth-breathing, Your Racist Uncle conservative voter, the Kochs are the platonic ideal of Libertarians. They are extremely socially conservative with maybe a couple of exceptions, but they know saying it makes them sound like stupid bigots, so instead they tell everyone it’s all about small government. When you see who they actually vote for (or told the Teabaggers to vote for) it was Christianist loons.

    So, the answer is, ‘They would prefer a caste system to ethnic cleansing, but they’re not going to get all that incensed about which they get.’

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    @sukabi: I like the Friday afternoon news dumps because he’s on his way to his weekend place and wants to play golf all weekend and it messes that up. He doesn’t want to work on the weekend and his crisis people can’t do it for him. They’re my favorite for that reason.

    @sdhays: I remember that story. It was kind of sad. He’s such an awful person.

  73. 73.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    @Dev Null: I got into a small email back and forth with Martin pre-Twitter. The guy has no center. Nor do the Time’s political reporters. It is so odd considering it seems pretty clear which side history will line up on?

  74. 74.

    Mary G

    May 11, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Dense Pence is one heartbeat away from being president.

  75. 75.

    Chris T.

    May 11, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    [Ryan is] willing to hold a fig leaf over Trump’s ugly bits.

    Well, yes, but it’s an extremely tiny fig leaf, very easy to hold…

  76. 76.

    Doug R

    May 11, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: melania came here on a swimsuit modelling visa, just like Einstein.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    @Ferdinand:

    “Let this serve as formal notice – there is significantly more evidence and facts to come relating to Mr. Cohen’s dealings and Mr. Trump’s knowledge and involvement. You can come clean now or wait to be outed. Your choice. We have only just begun…#Basta”
    I also confess to being clueless what #Basta refers to. He uses it regularly.

    HE. HAS.NO.PHUCKS.TO.GIVE.

    I admit too…have no idea what Basta means..

  78. 78.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I meant to amend that diary entry but had a distraction. Should be:
    “and decided to feel better by ripping a few brown babies out of their mother’s arms and sending them 3000 miles apart!”

  79. 79.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    @sdhays: Almost enough to make me feel bad for him. Almost.
    @Yarrow: I’m good with him. :-)

  80. 80.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    NPR on the FBI on Vekselberg:

    FBI warned of Russian intel links to Vekselberg

    EDIT: h/t PoliticalWire (Taegan Goddard)

  81. 81.

    Humdog

    May 11, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    I appreciate Jen Rubin because she was a koolaid drinker who saw through the bullshit eventually. It gives me hope that others can turn away from the toxic path and see things clearly. I don’t trust her as an ally, but as an example of what could be possible. I need to look for glimmers of hope to keep from despair myself. I believe Jen realizes where her party went astray and is horrified at what she supported. And she is standing up against her former friends, which cannot be easy and must be rather lonely. What can I say, as a liberal I suffer from overdeveloped empathy.

  82. 82.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    Not all Fig Leaves.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    May 11, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    Kremlin-linked Russian politician Alexander Torshin traveled frequently between Moscow and various destinations in the United States to build relationships with figures on the American right starting as early as 2009, beyond his previously known contacts with the National Rifle Association.
    Documents newly obtained by NPR show how he traveled throughout the United States to cultivate ties in ways well beyond his formal role as a member of the Russian legislature and later as a top official at the Russian central bank. These are steps a former top CIA official believes Torshin took in order to advance Moscow’s long-term objectives in the United States, in part by establishing common political interests with American conservatives.

    This deserves WAY more attention. The US Right is aligned with the Russian Right on policy.

    Put aside all the “collusion” stuff. The reason this alliance came to be is these people are allied on policy.

    I was reading a piece about Putin’s effort to re-legalize domestic violence in Russia. They sound EXACTLY like social conservatives in the 1980’s and 1990’s- it’s all about the “decline of the traditional family”. This isn’t some cloak and dagger subversion of True Conservatives. Russian conservatives recognized (rightly) that the two groups share goals.

    On guns. On women’s roles. On immigration. Whatever Trump did or didn’t do secretly mainstream Right wing groups in the US were forming a relationship with Russia based on shared conservative ideas about policy.

    It’s amazing to me that with our huge pundit industry there hasn’t been more discussion of this.

    “I really do think the Russians are looking at being able to reach out to the right … to say, ‘Hey, you know Russians actually share a lot of the same values,’ ” said Hall, whose 30-year career in the CIA concluded in 2015.

  84. 84.

    Humdog

    May 11, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @Chris T.: not a fig leaf, but a mere pine needle!

  85. 85.

    MJS

    May 11, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @Yarrow: I like Avenatti too but damn it, I took the afternoon off to get yard work done before a weekend of rain! I can’t be spending my time looking at my phone every two minutes! Basta! Out with it!

  86. 86.

    gene108

    May 11, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    The amount of legislation that could have passed in the last 7 years that went to die in the House because Boehner and Ryan refuse to allow a vote in it is staggering.

    Immigration reform passed the Senate, and would have passed the House, Boehner brought it up for a vote, but he killed it.

    The cynical bad faith cowardice of Republican Congressional leadership is one of the most underreported stories of our times.

  87. 87.

    Mary G

    May 11, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    @Kay: Russians also share racism as well.

  88. 88.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    I think some of the reasons why some of the journalists have their panties in a bunch about Avenatti is…

    1. He has no phucks left to give
    2. He approaches Dolt45 EXACTLY the way the MSM should have been all this time
    3. He’s getting the shyt that THEY, if they were actually investigating, should have gotten

    We had that story back when that got out about Dolt45 asking Willard
    HOW TO MONETIZE THE PRESIDENCY

    And, NONE of these MSM Muthaphuckas thought..
    ” Hmmmmm, maybe I should investigate that?’

    There’s STILL at least 25 MILLION MISSING FROM THE INAUGURATION

    NOBODY but USA Today and Maddow even consistently asked ,
    “Hey, what the phuck did you do with the $100+ million you took in for the Inauguration?’

    We got that report of the ‘ friend’ of Melania that got TWENTY-FIVE/TWENTY-SIX MILLION of the Inauguration Monies, and NOBODY, besides USA Today and Maddow have asked WHY?

    They are mad because Avenatti is doing the job THEY should have been doing all along.

  89. 89.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    @Kay:

    It’s amazing to me that with our huge pundit industry there hasn’t been more discussion of this.

    Our pundit industry has been working their asses off at least since the 80s to pretend conservative policy is not driven by racism or sexism. These are exactly the goals they’d rather sweep under the rug while they talk about ‘economic anxiety’ and ‘fiscal discipline.’

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    @Yarrow:

    I’m fine watching it play out rather than insisting he put up or shut up. That’s the exact wrong strategy for his client in this situation.

    It’s not so much that I want him to put up or shut up, but rather I’m just exhausted by the seemingly endless dark teases by “insiders” who, if they are to be believed, are trying to lead the media horse to water. To extend that bad analogy, it is tiring because the media never seem to pick up on whatever the “insiders” are teasing out. So why can’t they JUST FUCKING TELL US WHAT THEY GD KNOW?!? JUST SAY IT OUT LOUD LIKE BELLA DID WHEN SHE CALLED EDWARD A VAMPIRE FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!

  91. 91.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    @rikyrah: Hey, it’s no fun to face proof that you’re lazy and complicit. //s

  92. 92.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    @Barbara:

    This isn’t a hard concept.

    Remember who we’re talking about here.

    The common clay of the west.

  93. 93.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: @Immanentize: My understanding is that he had to disclose clients he was doing legal work for, not quasi-lobbying. What has gotten lost in the shuffle on this is that he did not name Elliot Broidy as one of those legal clients, which reinforces Paul Campos’s theory that Cohen didn’t do a deal and NDA to cover up an affair and subsequent abortion that Broidy was involved in, but rather that Broidy paid Cohen to do so to cover this up for the President.

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    May 11, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    @James Powell:

    If and when—and it’s a big if—the Republicans ever get back to partial sanity and semi-respectability, Rubin will go scuttling back to them. She is a useful ally in her white-hot hatred of all things Trump, but please notice how often she says anything positive about any Democrat or Democratic policy. (Hint: close to zero.) She is squarely in the “enemy of my enemy” camp, nothing more.

  95. 95.

    Manyakitty

    May 11, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @TenguPhule: They need an “Authentic Frontier Gibberish (TM)” translator.

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @Yarrow: Correct. The three clients listed were the President, the Trump Organization, and Hannity.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    May 11, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    Recall that Russian interference in the election wasn’t just to benefit Trump. It was to benefit far Right Republicans in Congress.

    This is a policy agenda. All the rest of the shit- the money laundering and the other crimes- that was all means to that end.

    We know it because it was offered EXCLUSIVELY to conservatives. If it were just broad-based corruption or capture they would have helped both sides. Democrats aren’t immune to corruption. There would be plenty of Democrats who would gladly climb on board for election intererence on their behalf. But Russians didn’t offer. Because it’s ideological.

  98. 98.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @Mary G:

    Dense Pence is one heartbeat away from being president.

    Implies heart not in evidence.

  99. 99.

    trollhattan

    May 11, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @rikyrah:
    I almost dated Elizabeth Hurley. Almost.

  100. 100.

    J R in WV

    May 11, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    This. I want to see this on TV, it will be the only time I ever deliberately watch that rat bastard on TV.

    On another topic… headline on Google News “Farmers market for pot opens in Las Vegas“!

    The vendors sell out of their auto trunks, for that old timey underground feeling…..
    hilarious.

  101. 101.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @Kay: I posted that article at the end of the morning thread. You missed the best part–Sarah Palin’s involved!

    Torshin’s earliest known visit to the United States was in 2009, when he requested a meeting with former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin — a request that has never before been reported.

    An email from the former Alaska governor’s archives, released due to a public records request from activist Andree McLeod and posted online en masse by then-Alaska Dispatch News reporter Richard Mauer, shows how Torshin made the approach through the Russian ambassador to the U.S., who was then Amb. Sergey Kislyak.

    An aide wrote to Palin in May of 2009: “You had received a request to call the Russian Ambassador regarding a proposed visit by Mr. Alexander Torshin… Torshin will be visiting Alaska on June 6, 2009 and we have asked the Lt. Governor to meet with him.” Neither the Russian embassy nor Palin responded to a request for comment.

    She can see Russia inside her email and maybe inside her office!

  102. 102.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Or was the issue that she worked on a tourist visa?

    She was working here before she got her visa. Allegedly.

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: She entered on a tourist visa and then did work on it before she received a work visa.

  104. 104.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    @Chris T.:

    Well, yes, but it’s an extremely tiny fig leaf, very easy to hold…

    True. But think of the soul-less monster one would have to be to voluntarily get that close to Trump’s junk. Seemingly day in and day out.

  105. 105.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 11, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    @trollhattan: Does she know this?

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    May 11, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Magic 8-ball says “unclear.” You know that Liz, terrible memory.

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    May 11, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    Other outlets reported that Nielsen, who tried to explain the complexity of the border situation but was shouted down, “almost resigned” over Trump’s tirade, composing but not handing in a resignation letter.

    Jesus H Christ. Are these stories trying to get sympathy for Trump officials? Are we supposed to see it as evidence of Trump’s impatient fury at not being able to get his way?

    To be blunt, this is like reading a story about some hapless Nazi official being blasted because she wasn’t getting Jews loaded fast enough onto trains headed to concentration camps.

    And this…

    This is the spectacle that Ryan is trying to avert — all to protect Trump from having his true priorities revealed in all their ugly glory.

    People, mainly white people, are in furious denial. A post here yesterday or early morning quoted a Twitter message that showed how John Kelly is on the exact same racist, nativist page as chief architect of Trump’s racist agenda, Stephen Miller.

    Latinos are inferior people who cannot be assimilated into America. They are poor, speak Spanish and stupid. They must be kept out and those who are here must be rounded up and sent home.

    I have not seen a news story anywhere which notes how the new tax law officially makes undocumented people who file federal taxes into a lower caste, stripping them of the child tax credit. This is an attempt to oppress them financially, and perhaps get them to self deport.

    And of course, Africans and Haitians are from shithole countries. Nothing more to be said here.

    The dilemma of the Dreamers seems to have really captured the imagination of a lot of people. What’s happening to them is sad and unfair. But Ryan is not trying to deflect attention from Trump’s racist agenda. It has always been clearly and openly on display.

    ETA. Not only is the child tax credit stripped away from undocumented workers, perhaps to discourage them from breeding, it is expanded to be available to taxpayers earning up to $400,000 because, you know, rich people really deserve it more.

  108. 108.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    @Kay:

    The reason this alliance came to be is these people are allied on policy.

    Can you say conspiracy?

  109. 109.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    I love that the Parkland kids have no chill.
    Oliver North – they don’t give a phuck.
    Still taking it to them :)

  110. 110.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    This is HUGE! Michael Cohen and Donald Trump apparently were behind the release of information concerning the allegations against Eric Schneiderman, the AG who was forced to resign while investigating none other than Cohen and Trump! https://t.co/rO7y2T89Jg

    — Ed Krassenstein (@EdKrassen) May 11, 2018

  111. 111.

    Gelfling 545

    May 11, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @Ferdinand: When I studied Italian for a year in college and we had dictation exercises the professor used to end them with basta. It,IIRC, means enough and can signify “The End “

  112. 112.

    HeleninEire

    May 11, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @rikyrah: “That unqualified heifer”

    I think I love you.

  113. 113.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @Corner Stone: I see the Rick Wilson types who allude to SOMETHING BIG THAT THEY KNOW but won’t tell anyone what it is as different from Avenatti who is actively working for his client. He’s playing the media and using them as a strategy against Trump. Plus, he does show what he has and, as manyakitty said, he’s leaving some breadcrumbs for the media to investigate. The media then goes and looks where he sent them and then they find things. It’s really amazing to watch. I love it.

    I can see being tired of the Rick Wilsons who hint, hint, hint but never really reveal but I’m not at all tired of watching Avenatti work. I think he’s masterful at what he’s doing.

  114. 114.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @Kay:

    This deserves WAY more attention. The US Right is aligned with the Russian Right on policy.

    Put aside all the “collusion” stuff. The reason this alliance came to be is these people are allied on policy.

    But, policy IS collusion, Kay.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @rikyrah: It’s about ethics in gaming journalism.//

  116. 116.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    @Cheap Jim, formerly known as Cheap Jim: That was my point. She’s an opinion columnist. While it might be important to take their temperature when considering how a policy will get covered in the press, you shouldn’t be making decisions based on what opinion columnists are writing. Even when you agree with them.

  117. 117.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Mary G: Jesus tested, Mother approved!

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Brachiator:

    this is like reading a story about some hapless Nazi official being blasted because she wasn’t getting Jews loaded fast enough onto trains headed to concentration camps.

    Forget Godwin’s Law — This is good.

  119. 119.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @Brachiator:

    To be blunt, this is like reading a story about some hapless Nazi official being blasted because she wasn’t getting Jews loaded fast enough onto trains headed to concentration camps.

    They all seem intent on going with the “I was only following orders” defense.

    Ideally this will work just as well as it did the last time it was tried in international court.

  120. 120.

    Ol'Froth

    May 11, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    I recently had the opportunity to talk to a federal official who works along the border (Rio Grande area) who told me one of the issues is local landowner cooperation. There are lots of homes along the river, along with businesses such as bars and restaurants who don’t want a wall impeding the view. Ranchers also cite the need for their livestock to access the river for water, and along one section, there’s a wildlife preserve that straddles the border, with some endangered or threatened species that require the ability to cross the river for sustainability. Bottom line, there are reasons aside from cost why a wall is wildly impractical along much of the border.

  121. 121.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It’s about ethics in gaming journalism.//

    Money has corrupted the whole process.

  122. 122.

    Corner Stone

    May 11, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @rikyrah: That PDF is the worst case of a bad “Find and Replace” example I think I have ever seen. Mr. Gleason needs to hire someone to fill out his templates for him.

    BTW, neither of the Krassenstein brothers are exactly reliable narrators so I would take some salt with everything they post.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Immanentize:

    That is called “bribery.” It’s in the constitution under “impeachment.”

    In the original…not even in the Amendments.

  124. 124.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Immanentize: “what side history will line up on?”

    Well, I’m betting on a nuclear holocaust. If I’m right there won’t be a side of history to line up on, so hey … no problem! There won’t even be an entree of history! Problem solved!

    That said, I must be missing your point. I think you’re saying that of course FTF Vichy Times will be on the wrong side of history… but before the Vichy Times was the Vichy Times, it was sometimes on the right side of history, e.g. when it printed the Pentagon Papers, so … “a miracle occurs”? Sorry … just not getting it.

    But then I must not understand politics or political reporting either, because (with high probability) HRC won’t run for office again, so WTF Jonathan Martin?

    Why are Republicans talking about HRC? Why is FTF Vichy Times still sneering at HRC?

    She’s not a player going forward. Why do either Republicans or Vichy Times reporters think they’re scoring points taking pot shots at HRC?

    Srsly, I don’t get it. And yeah, I know Republicans dun got nuthin’ … but Vichy Times reporters? What is wrong with these people?!?

    Jonathan Martin excuses Mr. Drain the Swamp because HRC woulda been worse?

    That’s worse than “no center”, it’s moronic, ethically bankrupt, and politically vacuous.

    [/rant]

    Sorry, I realize I grabbed your point and ran away with it…

  125. 125.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @rikyrah:

    But, policy IS collusion, Kay.

    Conspiracy.

    Trump is fucking up American English. Let’s stop helping him do it.

  126. 126.

    James Powell

    May 11, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    @Brachiator:

    People, mainly white people, are in furious denial.

    Or perhaps they are happy with it, but don’t want everyone to know.

  127. 127.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Cohen did not say “the other guy” (Broidy) was his client. He’s not. Avenatti pointed this out. The media is stupid and assumed Broidy was his client. Cohen did not state that in court.

    THEY.ARE.NOT.STUPID.

    They are unwilling to GO THERE!

  128. 128.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    @Dev Null: Not surprising at all.

  129. 129.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @Kay: I’ve only been writing about this here for over 2 years.

  130. 130.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve only been writing about this hear for over 2 years.

    Can we here you now?

  131. 131.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 1:39 pm

    @Dev Null: Just a demographic point, I think most people alive today in the US were born after the publication of the pentagon papers. And as my Dad used to say, “What have you done for me lately?”

    As for Hillary, I have my own theory — the media knows it was complicit in Hillary’s loss and Trump’s win much the same way Comey was — they thought she would win so they went after her with bullshit while ignoring the Clown who would be King. But they were wrong. So wrong. So they continue to justify their bad journalism choices by crazy talk like, “HRC would have been worse.” Otherwise, they understand they really should self-deport.

  132. 132.

    VeniceRiley

    May 11, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    @rikyrah: Out of the frying pan, into Underwood’s fire.

  133. 133.

    ARoomWithAMoose

    May 11, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    @Yarrow:
    Cohen is looking at a lot of personal jeopardy. Flipping on the (many instances of) money laundering (criminal) doesn’t get him out of the way of the Stormy civil suit. Flipping on someone about the emerging bribery/pay for access stuff doesn’t make the other potential problems go away. Avenatti knows this, and Cohen probably can no longer see a way clear personally (the obvious thing to have done months ago was to settle with Stormy to make that go away, since they keep stepping on their own dicks there with inconsistent stories in public and to judges). Trump just figures it’s someone else’s problem/fault, and in any case (shades of Peter Griffin reasoning), if he got a lawyer to do it, it must’ve magically been made legal.

  134. 134.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 1:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: “Not surprising”

    Agreed, posting as Yet More Evidence should anyone have missed it.

  135. 135.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    @Dev Null:

    Why are Republicans talking about HRC? Why is FTF Vichy Times still sneering at HRC?

    Hate.

  136. 136.

    germy

    May 11, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    Former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin admitted that hearing Senator John McCain’s regrets about appointing her as his running mate in 2008 felt “like a perpetual gut-punch.”

    In McCain’s new book, The Restless Wave, the 81-year-old senator said he was wrong not to choose former Senator Joseph Lieberman to be his vice presidential candidate a decade ago.

    After hearing about the remarks, Palin told the Daily Mail, “That’s not what Senator McCain has told me all these years, as he’s apologized to me repeatedly for the people who ran his campaign.

  137. 137.

    Yarrow

    May 11, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    @ARoomWithAMoose: He sure is! Cohen is truly fucked. That’s why I think he’ll flip on Trump because even if it won’t save him from everything it’s better than nothing.

  138. 138.

    trollhattan

    May 11, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    @rikyrah:
    I have a hunch it went down something like this, with the Parkland kids.
    “Hey, NRA has a new president. His name is Oliver West, or something.”
    “Who?”
    “Oops, sorry, Oliver North.”
    “Never heard of him, let’s google. [pause] Oh man, he’s a convicted gunrunner for Reagan. Got his sentence overturned and went to work for Fox. Sounds like business as usual at the NRA.”
    “Let’s get back to work.”
    “Word.”

  139. 139.

    germy

    May 11, 2018 at 1:53 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Cohen is truly fucked. That’s why I think he’ll flip on Trump because even if it won’t save him from everything it’s better than nothing.

    He’ll develop a serious doorknob phobia if he does.

  140. 140.

    Amir Khalid

    May 11, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    @germy:
    I don’t see how Joe Lieberman would have been a less bad running mate, or a less bad VP, than Sarah Palin.

  141. 141.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    @Amir Khalid:
    I detest Joe Lieberman, but he would not have been half as embarrassing on the campaign trail as Sarah Palin. She was so bad the media couldn’t cover for her, and they clearly wanted to. Lieberman they would have polished as the ultimate avatar of pure, noble bipartisanship, where Republicans and Democrats come together to admit Republicans are right about everything. Probably wouldn’t have flipped the election, but definitely a better running mate than Palin.

  142. 142.

    catclub

    May 11, 2018 at 2:03 pm

    @germy: how could McCain be a two faced liar when he was also a POW? Which you may not have known.

  143. 143.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Most people alive today born after the publication of the Pentagon Papers …

    I’m too lazy to round up the numbers, but sure, “people older than 45” vs “people younger than 45”. Seems right.

    What have you done for me lately?

    uh, Judy Miller and mobile weapons labs? [/snark]

    Seems my reading of “side of history” was what you intended. wrt “lately” I take your point. [takes point]

    … they continue to justify their bad journalism choices by crazy talk like, “HRC would have been worse.” Otherwise, they understand they really should self-deport.

    Oh, OK, yeah … uh, no.

    There’s an alternative that actually makes sense: our Failed Press Corpse could just STFU about HRC, no? I realize that this is a radical concept, but Our Failed Press Corpse could actually focus on what matters, which is to say, “not HRC”. Do journalism, even.

    Nah, what am I thinking?!?

    I mean, srsly, FTF Vichy Times has maintained a very discreet silence about their role facilitating America’s Excellent Mesopotamian Adventure, Fk Yeah! … rather than pushing the Adventure as The Tough but Necessary Choice™, see, “because mobile weapons labs so shut up already”.

    “Mobile weapons labs” seeming to me to be a similar failure to exercise due diligence.

  144. 144.

    TenguPhule

    May 11, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @trollhattan: Oliver North is currently calling for their deaths by proxy.

  145. 145.

    J R in WV

    May 11, 2018 at 2:08 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Well, certainly as malicious as Palin, but not as stupid. Perhaps worse than Palin, as less stupid plus just as evil, am I doing that right? That makes him better from the Republican point of view, won’t it? More able to do the evil things that make up their agenda…/

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    May 11, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    As I remember, McCain did prefer Lieberman, his BFF at the time, but the party didn’t want him. Lieberman didn’t help Al Gore much as his running mate, either.

  147. 147.

    Amir Khalid

    May 11, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @J R in WV:
    Okay, I’m confused now.

  148. 148.

    ? Martin

    May 11, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @rikyrah:

    You wanna tell me again that it’s not about White Supremacy?

    It’s always been about white supremacy. The 2nd amendment is the keep white people armed amendment.

    And I’m really impressed with the Parkland kids. They know we failed them, and now we feel we have the right to criticize their motives and efforts? Yeah, right. They’re moving on from us.

  149. 149.

    catclub

    May 11, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    but the party didn’t want him.

    yep.

    If McCain picked Lieberman, the right wing revolts.

  150. 150.

    aimai

    May 11, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    @rikyrah: Basta is italian for “enough.” It seems to be AVenatti’s way of putting all his “Money talks/bullshit walks” posts in one place.

  151. 151.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 11, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Lieberman made Darth Cheney look cuddly at their VP debate. He was an own goal by the Gore campaign.

  152. 152.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    Take it to them, Parkland kids

    https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/994980600590274561?s=19

  153. 153.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    @catclub:
    In part, you know, because Joooo! Ok for Democrats, but not Republicans.

  154. 154.

    Brachiator

    May 11, 2018 at 2:17 pm

    @James Powell:

    People, mainly white people, are in furious denial.

    Or perhaps they are happy with it, but don’t want everyone to know.

    That, too. But I see a lot of liberals who limit their outrage to the treatment of Dreamers, but who refuse to follow the trail further. They even are weird about Trump. They will acknowledge that he may be racist, but downplay the racism in his immigration policy.

    Or they will go on and on about Nixon’s Southern Strategy, but limit discussion to voting rights.

    So, it goes perversely deeper than accepting the Trump racist agenda. Some of these people have cut themselves off from their racist friends and family. But for some reason, they cannot deal with Trump’s efforts to create an openly racist federal government built on a racist, nativist immigration system.

  155. 155.

    sukabi

    May 11, 2018 at 2:17 pm

    @Yarrow: Sure there’s that…I miss the days where the week was relatively benign and scandal free and the Friday news dumps amounted to “omg, the Obama’s did a terrorist fist bump. Or FLOTUS is making me eat my veggies.”

    Waiting for indictments or a massive stroke is stressful!

  156. 156.

    Uncle Cosmo

    May 11, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    @Yarrow: Better than an “accidental fall” out of an umpteenth-storey window?

    What depresses me is all this talk about “flipping.” Not gonna happen. The only way we’ll know someone was even close to flipping is when they (or one of their loved ones) dies under suspicious but ultimately unresolvable circumstances. Vlad the Paler hasn’t had anyone (that we know of) whacked in CONUS yet, but I doubt that’d stop him if necessary to preserve his prime asset as POTUS. (Hell, from his POV the best thing would be for some loved one of one of the targets to die of entirely natural causes – everyone would assume he somehow arranged it & be even less likely to talk.)

  157. 157.

    ? Martin

    May 11, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Just a demographic point, I think most people alive today in the US were born after the publication of the pentagon papers. And as my Dad used to say, “What have you done for me lately?”

    That’s about right for whites, but not the general population. Most people alive today in the US are younger than Raiders of the Lost Ark and Thriller. Knock a few more years off of that for states like California. You’re almost 10 years off. IOW, the median age for Americans is the start of the millennials. Everyone older than millennials is in the declining share.

    Immigration is why people get this so wrong. They are way younger than the average american. Average age for Hispanics is 27, over 15 years younger than whites.

    If anyone wanted to know why Trump is currently president, there you go.

  158. 158.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 11, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    @catclub:

    the right wing revolts

    How could you tell? They’ve been in near permanent revolt about something for going on 60 years at least.

  159. 159.

    sukabi

    May 11, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: it’s a grammar thing…just a change of context makes it accurate then and now…

    “The rightwing is revolting.”

  160. 160.

    Immanentize

    May 11, 2018 at 2:28 pm

    @? Martin: wow, Thriller. 1982. This median age thing is so interesting. In 1980, it was 30 y.o. In 2015 (last data I could find quickly) it was 37.8. Friggin boomers ruining everything.

  161. 161.

    Mary G

    May 11, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    @rikyrah: @trollhattan: I followed a bunch of them on Twitter during their initial claim to fame, and was about to unfollow some because it seemed like they had, perfectly naturally, turned their attention to things like prom, AP exams, and most annoyingly, love of Taylor Swift and somebody named Kelsea Ballerina (not her actual name). But the new trolling of Oliver North, who has decided to equate the NRA with the civil rights movement, with himself as MLK, and the Parkland kids and Shannon Watts of Moms Demand playing the part of the state troopers with the salivating dogs and firehoses, is awesome.

  162. 162.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 2:30 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    hate

    Color me stoopid, but it seems to me that hate has a specific function in politics: to sway voters away from the hated individual (or hated group, or group that the hated individual is associated with.) The problem with hating on Hillary at this point is that there’s no longer a linkage between her and, well, anything that matters to anyone. She’s nearly invisible, as most post-politicians are.

    If Republicans say “get out there and vote or Hillary will take away your guns and [fill in your particular nightmare]” their voters will likely say, “hunh? Who is Hillary?”

    (OK, I’m exaggerating, but probably not by much.)

    The press’ hatred seems to me to be even less understandable. OK, so they hate HRC. (At least FTF Vichy Times hates the Clintons … they always have, dating back to William Jefferson’s first days in national politics.) The hatred seems irrational, but so what?

    Nonetheless, accepting that the Vichy Times hates the Clintons, why do they keep going back to the Clintons? HRC is at this time the opposite of “news”. She’s anti-news.

    The press and James Comey (hi, Mr. Comey!) dug her political grave, dispatched her, and buried her. Hatred explains that. (With help from Russia, natch.)

    But hatred doesn’t explain why the Vichy Times feels the need to keep digging up her political corpse. The WaPost doesn’t go there …

  163. 163.

    ? Martin

    May 11, 2018 at 2:32 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Latinos are inferior people who cannot be assimilated into America. They are poor, speak Spanish and stupid. They must be kept out and those who are here must be rounded up and sent home.

    Yeah, in California 26% of K-12 students are white, vs 52% latino. We’ve assimilated 14 million latinos – a few million more than the entire population of Illinois. We’re the 5th largest economy in the world, faster growing economy than the rest of the country, vastly fewer opioid deaths than the rest of the country, better health outcomes than the country, less gun violence than the rest of the country.

    Someone needs to airdrop John Kelly into LA to see how hard it is for ‘rural’ latinos to assimilate.

  164. 164.

    J R in WV

    May 11, 2018 at 2:32 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    That’s OK, most of us are confused now. Want Mueller to pounce, soonest!!!

    I see where the Royal segment of your surprisingly democratic monarchy is gonna do something political for the first time in a long time! Congrats, what a surprise!

  165. 165.

    Betty Cracker

    May 11, 2018 at 2:33 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    JUST SAY IT OUT LOUD LIKE BELLA DID WHEN SHE CALLED EDWARD A VAMPIRE FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!

    LMAO!

  166. 166.

    Betty Cracker

    May 11, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    @rikyrah: Ronan Farrow denied it. I believe him. The Krassensteins aren’t the most credible sources, IMO.

  167. 167.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 11, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    @Dev Null:

    Color me stoopid, but it seems to me that hate has a specific function in politics

    Nope. It can, but as often as not, it doesn’t. Hate is its own reward, and people not only will eagerly pursue it for no purpose, they will eagerly pursue it while hurting themselves in the process. This is not rare, and it’s certainly not limited to the voting base. We don’t live in a meritocracy, and you sure as Hell don’t have to be smarter or more logical to have corporate, political, or journalistic power. They hate Hillary, so they bash her. Eventually they’ll forget her and move on, but they really, really, REALLY hate Hillary and it won’t be soon.

  168. 168.

    rikyrah

    May 11, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    @Brachiator:

    So, it goes perversely deeper than accepting the Trump racist agenda. Some of these people have cut themselves off from their racist friends and family. But for some reason, they cannot deal with Trump’s efforts to create an openly racist federal government built on a racist, nativist immigration system.

    What about the ones who haven’t cut themselves off, and just want to be in denial about how their family’s votes impacted millions of Americans, and how they have absolutely no problem with the vileness of this Administration.

  169. 169.

    Brachiator

    May 11, 2018 at 3:02 pm

    @rikyrah:

    What about the ones who haven’t cut themselves off, and just want to be in denial about how their family’s votes impacted millions of Americans, and how they have absolutely no problem with the vileness of this Administration.

    The levels of denial are tremendous.
    But that is part of the problem. It’s not always easy to separate those who have no problem with this administration and those who say they hate it, but cannot quite acknowledge the harm it seeks to do.

  170. 170.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    @Kay:
    I’ve been banging the drum that conservatives the world over are all the same and have been for centuries.
    They don’t want freedom for anyone who doesn’t look, sound or have the same religious ideals as them and is willing to do anything to make sure that the only monetary winners are conservatives. Freedom to conservatives is the freedom to control in every way anyone they see as inferior to them. Live and let live? Not on your life. Swim in the sea with all the other fish? They’d rather swim in a crowded, filthy pool with only their own kind that have clean water and have to possibly be exposed to anything not like them. Even if that means their own end, they don’t care, as long as they go last.

  171. 171.

    catclub

    May 11, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: You can tell it when they do not show up to vote in the usual numbers. McCain’s drubbing by Obama would have been Worse.

  172. 172.

    Brachiator

    May 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @? Martin:
    Move fun with demographics…

    There were more 24-year-olds in the U.S. than people of any other age in 2015. But for white Americans, 55 was the most common age, according to Census Bureau data…

    Americans with two or more races were the youngest group in the Census Bureau data, with a median age of 19. There were a higher number of multiracial Americans under the age of 1 in 2015 than there were of any other age. Nearly half (46%) of multiracial Americans were ages 0 to 17, which means that they were not yet part of any named U.S. generation….

    U.S. Hispanics were also a notably youthful group. Their median age was 28, and their most common age was 8. As a separate Pew Research Center report noted, Latinos have long been one of the nation’s youngest racial/ethnic groups, dating back to at least 1980. Today, the relative youth of Hispanics is driven by the U.S.-born Latino population, nearly three-quarters of whom were Millennials or younger.

    Link

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/

  173. 173.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Those pundits say/do what they do because they agree with the conservative policies. It really is as simple as that. It isn’t because they are lazy, although they may be. This is the world they want. They stay where they are because they like what they write/talk about and want even more.
    We shouldn’t try to make excuses for them, they are conservative assholes, simple as that. The more excuses that we make the more cover that they have. Rip off that band aid, call them for what they are. If they don’t like it they can change, if they like it they will continue to do what they are doing. We get the media we pay for, if we continue to pay for their crap, we will continue to get crap.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    @Kay:
    This.
    Because it is ideological.
    Conservatives are conservatives, around the world.

  175. 175.

    trnc

    May 11, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Ryan is trying to stop this from happening. He justifies this by claiming that there’s no sense in voting on measures protecting the dreamers that Trump would veto.

    How many times did the House vote to dismantle Obamacare while Obama was president?

  176. 176.

    Aleta

    May 11, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    (Katie Porter) a 44-year-old Harvard-educated consumer advocate was the first congressional candidate EMILY’s List endorsed for the 2018 cycle and has since landed the endorsements of Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Kamala Harris (D-Calif.).

    Porter is running against three men in the June 5 CA-45 primary: Dave Min; Brian Forde, a former science and technology advisor to President Barack Obama; and Kia Hamadanchy, a former aide to Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio.). No Democrat has won the California 45th since its creation in 1983, but the party sees it as a flippable seat in a flippable House in 2018.

    Republican Rep. Mimi Walters, a Trump supporter, was elected there in 2016 at the same time the district broke for Hillary Clinton. In Congress, Walters voted to repeal limits on CO2 emissions from power plants and co-sponsored a bill to block government action on climate change ― a very unpopular position in California.

    Min and Porter (are) both Harvard-educated law professors at the University of California Irvine (and) Porter had actually recruited Min to the university.
    (–) (T)heir ideological differences map neatly onto a broader division within the Democratic Party. Min, a former aide to Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), is the only candidate in the primary who has not called for single-payer health care, and the centrist New Democrat Coalition has endorsed him. Porter, who spent years investigating banks and home foreclosures under Warren and Harris, has the endorsement of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

    The daughter of an Iowa farmer-turned-banker, Porter grew up during the farm crisis, watching “the entire economy around me go to hell.” When she decided to run for Congress, she had been excited to talk about the things that inspired her: consumer protection, housing fairness, women’s rights, her menteeship under Warren.
    (–)
    (But) Her divorce and the protective order she obtained against her husband have become the subject of a whisper campaign in the competitive Democratic primary for California’s 45th Congressional District. Several delegates to the Orange County Democratic Party told Porter they’d heard rumors from a rival campaign that something in her divorce records might disqualify her in the general election.
    (–)
    Porter assumes Matthews’ tweet refers to the fact that when she filed for a protective order against her ex-husband in 2013, he filed a retaliatory claim against her five minutes before their court hearing as a last-ditch effort to defend himself. He claimed Porter once charged at him in the laundry room. The judge ultimately denied his request and granted Porter a protective order and custody of their children.

    In February at the California Democratic Party Convention Min won the state party’s endorsement by a single delegate’s vote. Under the state party’s rules, because Min won by such a small margin, his opponents could challenge his win on the convention floor by gathering 300 signatures and forcing a new vote. Some attendees said Min’s supporters responded with what they described as aggressive intimidation tactics to stop them from collecting enough signatures.
    (Examples are in article)
    It was somewhere in the runup to the convention that the whisper campaign about Porter began, according to Hamadanchy. While they didn’t have firsthand evidence, Tuohey, Hamadanchy, Bowen and Porter said they strongly believe it originated with Min in his effort to sway delegates to his side.

    “Dave basically said there’d been a restraining order and that her kids are really messed up because of it,” Hamadanchy said. “He has been telling people she’s unelectable.”

    “I heard from a few people that Dave said her divorce was disqualifying,” said Bowen, the former campaign manager for Forde, “and that she’s a really nasty woman with character issues.” Bowen said he is “100 percent confident” the whispers originated with Min and not with Forde or Hamadanchy.

    Huff Post article also describes violent abuse by candidate Porter’s former husband, and gives example of slime from an apparent donor of $2,000 to Dave Min’s campaign.

    The primary is a top-two primary. From Ballotpedia: “A top-two primary is a type of primary election in which all candidates are listed on the same primary ballot. The top two vote-getters, regardless of their partisan affiliations, advance to the general election. Consequently, it is possible for two candidates belonging to the same political party to win in a top-two primary and face off in the general election.”

  177. 177.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    @Dev Null:
    2010 census, very rounded numbers
    0-44 186 million
    over 45 120 million

  178. 178.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Hate is its own reward, and people not only will eagerly pursue it for no purpose, they will eagerly pursue it while hurting themselves in the process.

    Fair enough. I should have said something like “a rational political actor will weaponize hatred for political ends whether or not the actor experiences that hatred him-or-her-self.”

    I would guess that the Republican leadership has never wasted energy demonizing Hillary in their own minds; rather they realized early on that she could be demonized for political ends, so rationally set about demonizing her, and succeeded brilliantly.

    But then why continue to demonize Hillary, if (as I believe) there’s no longer utility in doing so?

    I dunno. Maybe, as you argue, I’m wrong, and Republicans really do hate them some Hillary.

    But it seems to me more likely that they’re lost. They’ve invested for two decades in Operation Hillary … and now find themselves with nothing to slip into the vast empty hole in their demonology left by Hillary’s metamorphosis into post-politician. If the Republican Party thrives on outrage, and if outrage fatigues, with the consequence that to be effective the Republican Party must always be turning up the gain …

    … then perhaps many Republicans are still in Kübler-Ross’ denial of loss stage. It can’t be easy to accept that one of your favorite demons – one of your most profitable demons – has gone away, never to return.

    As for the press, I could accept your argument were we talking about individuals …

    … but that’s a difficult argument to swallow when it’s applied to a collection of hundreds of individuals. The Vichy Times, I mean. Maybe it’s a cultural thing.
    __________________________

    The problem I have with “hate” as an explanation is that it’s both facile and an end-point. When you posit that there’s nothing beyond irrational self-damaging hatred – “hatred Just Is™” – you are saying “there’s no reason to look for anything else, because there is nothing else.”

    That doesn’t mean that you’re wrong – perhaps hatred really is all there is – but it does mean that if there’s something motivating the hatred (*cough*eg weaponization*cough*), you’ll never learn that motivation. And that’s to your disadvantage.

    Color me paranoid, but I think it’s worth trying to look behind the curtain.

  179. 179.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @Amir Khalid:
    Hard for anyone to actually like JL.
    He’s trying to be all things to all people, in a binary system that wants/demands one or the other.
    It doesn’t work. It didn’t work with Gore or McCain. Take those 16 or so people running in the 2016 republican primary. They wanted to be president of the US so tried to appeal to their side without scaring the dem side too much. The republicans went for the one guy who gave them everything they wanted.

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    May 11, 2018 at 3:49 pm

    @Dev Null:
    She moved to NY and became Senator. I don’t believe that she was the FTFNYT choice. She’s a carpet bagger in reverse. She’s not one of them. And yet she was their senator and a first lady and SoS. Politically she kicked their ass.

  181. 181.

    Citizen Alan

    May 11, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    As awful as Sarah Palin was, I don’t think McCain’s VP choice was the final straw. It was his utterly inept and vacillating response to the financial crisis that made people decide he had no business being president at that juncture. If anything, picking Lieberman might have been worse for him because his support among the base might have collapsed with a Jewish Democrat on the ticket.

  182. 182.

    mai naem mobile

    May 11, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    @Yarrow: if that abortion was Dolt45’s he will lose support among different groups and I am not just talking evangelicals. Abortion is a big single issue vote getter. Bigger than gays for sure and possibly guns.

  183. 183.

    Citizen Alan

    May 11, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, I’ve said for 18 years now that Gore would have won easily with Bill Nelson of Florida as his running mate. But no, he inexplicably had to give a FU to Clinton by picking Holy Joe. And we all paid the price and still are.

  184. 184.

    Citizen Alan

    May 11, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    I promise you they really don’t care. Every abortion provider in this country can tell you stories about women they recognize from the Operation Rescue picket lines sneaking in for abortions. And then going back out to the picket lines. Because their abortions were for good reasons unlike all those other slutty sluts.

  185. 185.

    Brachiator

    May 11, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    if that abortion was Dolt45’s he will lose support among different groups and I am not just talking evangelicals.

    Not sure that this would happen, but I would love to see it put to the test.

    I will also bet you that Trump had gay sex during the 70s and 80s.

  186. 186.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    @Ruckus:

    2010 numbers, very rounded numbers

    Right, thanks… about what I expected from a back-of-the-envelope calculation.

    I’m frequently surprised how close you can get to the right answer with grossly inaccurate approximations and simple arithmetic (math-averse and/or pedantic-averse, stop reading here).

    In this case:

    … assume everyone lives to exactly age 76 [1];

    … assume that each age cohort (ie 0-1, 1-2, … , 75-76) is equally populated [2];

    then half the population is in the 0-37 cohort, with the other half in the 38-76 cohort. If half the population is in the 0-37 cohort, then quite a bit more than half the population will be in the 0-45 cohort. [3]

    I didn’t reason this through in detail when I accepted Immanentize’s assertion … the conclusion just “felt right”.

    Apologies if this strikes you as bloviating and/or self-regarding …

    [1] More or less an actuarial lifespan, if such a concept exists. I didn’t look this up either, it’s just a convenient cutoff. Alternatively, lump all The Really Olds (76-∞) in the 75-76 cohort.

    [2] definitely not true for three reasons (at least): immigration, baby boom-bust cycles, and “premature” mortality (ie deaths before 76). This assumption overweights the “above 45” group, but that’s OK because The Youngs win even when The Olds are overweighted.

    [3] The cutoff is actually 47, not 45, because the Pentagon Papers were published in 1971 (I finally looked this up)… so the proportions are skewed even more towards The Young. I had picked 45 because I was lazy and because I wanted a multiple of 5.

  187. 187.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 11, 2018 at 4:46 pm

    @Dev Null:

    Fair enough. I should have said something like “a rational political actor will weaponize hatred for political ends whether or not the actor experiences that hatred him-or-her-self.”

    Go threw American politics, it doesn’t turn out well in end like with Woodrow Wilson. Hate begets hate to the Republicans blocked the League of Nations out of pure spite for Wilson. But I suppose humiliation blacks was well worth a Second World War.

  188. 188.

    Mnemosyne

    May 11, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    @? Martin:

    Someone needs to airdrop John Kelly into LA to see how hard it is for ‘rural’ latinos to assimilate.

    Kelly would injure himself trying to eat a tamale and demand that deportations begin immediately. ?

    Adam had said before that Kelly’s opinions about Latinos were formed while Kelly was the general in charge for Latin America. Apparently no one realized until 2016 that the opinion that Kelly formed while he was there was that they were all horrible mud people. ?

  189. 189.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I apologize for my stooopidity, but I don’t understand what you are saying / asking.

  190. 190.

    CarolDuhart2

    May 11, 2018 at 7:05 pm

    There really is a vacuum isn’t it? HIllary’s gone, Obama’s off doing whatever. Nancy Pelosi elicits a “who” across the populace-most people don’t really know who she is and fewer even care about the minorityhouse leader. Nobody else is big enough or lasts long enough to care about.

  191. 191.

    Dev Null

    May 11, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    @Ruckus: Context? I get the words, but …

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