Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

So many bastards, so little time.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

People are complicated. Love is not.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: Choosing to Stand Up for Decency

Open Thread: Choosing to Stand Up for Decency

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When I first posted about Trump’s latest hate-rally, I assumed “They’re not even people, they’re animals” would get lost in the non-stop blizzard of Trumpian malfeasance. Kinda pleased (as far as I can be as a devout Cynic) to have been wrong about that…


Even the Queen of Trumpian Gossip at the FTFNYT!…

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  1. 1.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Maggie Haberman
    ✔
    @maggieNYT

    This is the same thing Trump has done since fall 2015. Issue mushy-edged statement that is meant to leave an impression. Waits for media reaction. Then screams he was taken out of context. Then half the media self-flagellates. How many times does this cycle have to get repeated? https://twitter.com/jonathanweisman/status/997461228502036480 …
    8:13 AM – May 18, 2018

    I don’t know. How many times does it have to get repeated? You’ve got the damn media platform, ffs.

  2. 2.

    Mike J

    Mags is partially right. The media really does have a lot to flagellate themselves for, but they always pick the wrong thing,

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    How many times does this cycle have to get repeated?

    Ummm, all the times, MAGA Habs?

  4. 4.

    Baud

    do they suppose all despots typically study up on their antecedents before plunging in?

    In fact, I just ordered Tyranny for Dummies from Amazon.

  5. 5.

    Corner Stone

    I am still not sure why people like Julia Ioffe and Chris Hayes had to try and mollify what happened when a guy who has taken every single step possible to destroy brown immigrants said he wants to destroy brown immigrants.
    What do they think he means when his policy is to warehouse brown babies on military bases, away from their families? Is that in context?

  7. 7.

    B.B.A.

    Looking at the context of Trump’s comment, where he’s mad that immigration court exists and that he deports and they just come back across again… the impression I get is he thinks everyone who “looks Mexican” is MS-13 and should be killed on sight.

    I don’t think we’re sufficiently horrified at this.

  8. 8.

    Corner Stone

    do they suppose all despots typically study up on their antecedents before plunging in?

    Isn’t the anecdote that Trump kept a book of Hitler’s speeches and read from it?

  9. 9.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Baud:
    I’ve read that book too! The first chapter is a hoot! The first sentence reads, “The root of all evil is free will.”

  12. 12.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @B.B.A.: I think that’s how it works in MAGA-world. Look at that lawyer in New York, Schlossberg. To him, a person speaking Spanish to another person was prima facie evidence that they were both criminals and undocumented. And would have been to ICE agents as well, judging by the stories I’m hearing, if he’d actually followed up on his threat to call them.

  14. 14.

    zhena gogolia

    Shamelessly re-posting from below because I’m so excited: I got to shake Al Gore’s hand today (he was on our flight from San Diego to Dulles)! I said, “I wish you’d been President,” and he said, “So do I!” And the tag has to be changed: AL GORE IS NOT FAT

    ETA: Of course my husband was laughing at me for my eagerness to get home and tell Balloon Juice all about it.

  17. 17.

    Yarrow

    @Corner Stone:

    I am still not sure why people like Julia Ioffe and Chris Hayes had to try and mollify what happened when a guy who has taken every single step possible to destroy brown immigrants said he wants to destroy brown immigrants.

    I said the other night I cannot watch Chris Hayes. To me he seems at best a useful idiot and possible worse than that. In that context it makes complete sense for him to say it’s reasonable to look at the context and try to downplay the whole thing.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: @B.B.A.: One of my college professors was, whist still among the living, the guy on the Electoral College. His opinion matched Baud’s.

  22. 22.

    efgoldman

    How many times does this cycle have to get repeated?

    Until you and your asshole buddies in the village learn how properly to be journalists
    So probably forever

  23. 23.

    Gin & Tonic

    At the ripe old age of 94, my father-in-law has left this mortal coil. Even though nearly all of his friends and colleagues have pre-deceased him, what I’ve always felt about that crowd is that, having survived Eastern Europe between 1939-1945, their life in the West these last 70 or so years has been a bonus round, that extra life you get near the end of the game that you weren’t expecting. People are resilient – they go through horrors that we, now, can barely describe correctly, come out the other side and just settle down to doing a job, keeping their head down and raising a family. If I had 1% of his perseverance and positive attitude, I’d be a lucky man.

    Fortunately, he was alert and aware until the very end, then the switch just got shut off.

  24. 24.

    Chip Daniels

    MS-13 is the new “Terrorist” is the new “Superpredator” is the new Keyser Soze boogieman that those in power use to whip up fear and panic, giving them license to do anything.

  25. 25.

    efgoldman

    @B.B.A.:

    I don’t think we’re sufficiently horrified at this.

    The problem is, like the outrage quotient, the horrified quotient is under too much strain.

  26. 26.

    FlipYrWhig

    The entire Republican Party is unified by the idea that brown people are scary and sneaky and shouldn’t be here. That’s what their politicians run on and what their voters want. There is no reason to overthink this. That’s what motivates Republicans to be Republicans.

  27. 27.

    B.B.A.

    @Chip Daniels: Here’s a conspiracy theory I just came up with: MS-13 doesn’t exist, it’s a fiction concocted by suburban sheriffs to maintain their political relevance in the face of ever-declining crime rates and a growing criminal justice reform movement.

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Fortunately, he was alert and aware until the very end, then the switch just got shut off.

    That’s a good way to go. Condolences to you and your spouse.

  31. 31.

    Corner Stone

    @B.B.A.:

    it’s a fiction concocted by suburban sheriffs to maintain their political relevance in the face of ever-declining crime rates and a growing criminal justice reform movement.

    It’s also why they are largely (not all) against legalization of weed. If they don’t have that tool in their toolbox to arrest black and brown people then what do they have?

  32. 32.

    efgoldman

    @Gin & Tonic:

    then the switch just got shut off.

    Condolences.
    My mom just ran out at 93, in 2011, on my daughter’s thirtieth birthday.
    She was one of the toughest, bravest people i knew.

  33. 33.

    Platonailedit

    For decades, this racist pos got away with the playing the 3rd rate 4th estate rather skillfully and bagged the ultimate prize of the presidency. Nothing is gonna change on the pathetic msm front. It’s all up to the voters.

  34. 34.

    Manxome Bromide

    @B.B.A.: I think that’s true despite MS-13 being both real and (if you’re in their way) dangerous.

    I suspect the easy way to distinguish which one they’re talking about is to ask them which Spanish-speaking nation MS-13 is associated with. If they say “Mexico” then you know they’re talking about the fictional one.

  35. 35.

    SWMBO

    @Gin & Tonic: Peace and comfort to you all. As Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon said in the Grumpy Old Men movies after hearing about someone dying in their sleep “the lucky bastard”. I know several people in their 90s who just didn’t wake up. It is a good way to go.

  36. 36.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It sounds like he had a full life.

    More than one. He was an orphan before he finished secondary school, yet he got to hold two of his own great-grandchildren.

  37. 37.

    Ohio Mom

    @zhena gogolia: I bet Gore hears, “I wish you’d been president,” somewhat often — it is probably what most of us would say if we ran into him, along with the boast, “I voted for you!”

    But while most of us only occasionally consider what the world would be like if he hadn’t had the election stolen from him, I can’t help but imagine it must be something that practically haunts him. So good for him for keeping his sense of humor about it.

  38. 38.

    hellslittlestangel

    Yeah, I’m sure that — at the beginning, at least — when the Nazis referred to “Jewish vermin,” they just meant the communists and moneylenders

  39. 39.

    Corner Stone

    @Platonailedit:

    got away with the playing the 3rd rate 4th estate rather skillfully and bagged the ultimate prize of the presidency.

    IMO, when this ends he’s going to be handcuffed and a Sheriff is going to pull off his mask to reveal Old Man Smithers. And he’s going to realize he would’ve gotten away with it too, except for those darned kids.

  41. 41.

    Jackie

    @Gin & Tonic: Sorry to hear that. I’m glad he was there until the end. I lost my Dad a couple of months ago at 99.5 months old. He, too, was here and bitching about Trump to the end. It’s amazing what our Dads lived through. Even more amazing that they both lived life right until the end ??

  42. 42.

    efgoldman

    @Ohio Mom:

    So good for him for keeping his sense of humor about it.

    I’ve known Mike Dukakis (lost to Bush 1 in ’88) from before that election. He has a sense of humor, and fatalism, about it too. Really, what choice do they have. He went on with his life and has accomplished a lot. Still takes the T to work every day

  43. 43.

    Corner Stone

    @Ohio Mom:

    But while most of us only occasionally consider what the world would be like if he (Gore) hadn’t had the election stolen from him, I can’t help but imagine it must be something that practically haunts him.

    The problem, of course, with Democrats. We treat people with decency and try to respect the rules. And when we get shit on we are unfailingly polite about it and apologize for causing any trouble. It’s not too hard to draw a straight line from Gore conceding to where we are right now.

  44. 44.

    Schlemazel

    @Gin & Tonic:
    condolences on his passing. I can’t imagine keeping a positive attitude through that nightmare, he must have been one hell of a guy.

  46. 46.

    magurakurin

    @Corner Stone:

    The problem, of course, with Democrats. We treat people with decency and try to respect the rules.

    pretty sure that’s a feature and not a bug.

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    Can anyone recommend a good book on the 2000 election and the Supreme Court shenanigans? This thread is making me realize that I have largely suppressed my memories of that clusterfuck.

    Now, unfortunately, I seem to have lost the ability to suppress the memories of the daily clusterfucks in the Trump regime. Go figure.

  49. 49.

    Corner Stone

    Can someone please kill that GD Progressive Insurance commercial where the idiot keeps stopping the choir? Thanks.

  51. 51.

    EBT

    He doesn’t just mean immigrants of color too, he means every non white person on the planet, possibly aside from the ones who buy memberships to his club. Possibly.

  54. 54.

    Steeplejack

    @Corner Stone:

    Inorite. I get that that character is supposed to be endearingly obnoxious, but, jeez, they crossed the line! I want the choir to rise up and give that incel a beatdown.

  55. 55.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    During the brutal 2016 Democratic Party primary, H.A. Goodman established himself as a forceful and influential pro-Bernie blogger.

    Writing for Salon and Huffington Post, and posting selfie videos to his popular YouTube channel, Goodman was oft-cited by Bernie Sanders most hardcore supporters.

    He was described by The Washington Post as “the unofficial scribe of Sanders’s most hardcore voters” and he was invited on CNN and MSNBC to advocate for Bernie Sanders.

    Goodman has since changed his tune. He now has a pro-Second Amendment YouTube channel and is now openly supporting Trump’s 2020 re-election bid on his Twitter account.

  56. 56.

    sdhays

    @Manxome Bromide:

    I suspect the easy way to distinguish which one they’re talking about is to ask them which Spanish-speaking nation MS-13 is associated with. If they say “Mexico” then you know they’re talking about the fictional one.

    What’s the correct answer? I’m so horribly uninformed that whenever I see “MS-13”, I think, “When did Mississippi get a thirteenth Congressional District?”

  57. 57.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Platonailedit:
    For decades he was a nobody. Now that he’s POTUS people care. He will pass into the dustbin of history like all his ilk. The dead enders will always worship him but history will remember him for the disastrous monster he is. As someone on here has said before (I think it was schrondinger’s cat) reality has a funny way of catching up with those who prefer to live in delusion and those who try to bullshit everyone.

  62. 62.

    Corner Stone

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Goodman has since changed his tune. He now has a pro-Second Amendment YouTube channel and is now openly supporting Trump’s 2020 re-election bid on his Twitter account.

    What does the word “changed” mean here? I am confused.

  64. 64.

    Mary G

    @zhena gogolia: Cool! The Roger Stone documentary on Netflix describes how he ginned up the Brooks Brothers riot that stopped the recount.

    @Gin & Tonic: Sorry for your loss. That generation went through the depression and the war, put it behind them and just went on.

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    @sdhays:

    What’s the correct answer?

    They are largely American citizens. So it’s kind of a trick question.

  67. 67.

    Peale

    @sdhays: technically “California”, since it formed in California’s racially divided prisons and got exported to Guatemala and El Salvador when the US deported the members.

  70. 70.

    Mary G

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Another of Vlad’s useful idiots, or full-fledged traitor?

    I'm voting Trump in 2020 to spite you and getting everyone I know to vote Trump. How DARE you sue @wikileaks when it simply published the corrupt words of people who cheated @BernieSanders. You stole $200 million from voters to his campaign. Show your servers to the FBI for once https://t.co/fcMy0NwznJ— H. A. Goodman TRUMP 2020 (@HAGOODMANAUTHOR) April 20, 2018

    Here’s an article in the Daily Banter.

    In a debate with Progressive Army’s Ben Dixon, the African-American Sanders supporter challenged him on his repeated dismissals of Cernovich as a “blogger” with “crazy ideas,” repeatedly stressing the repugnance of these views. But Goodman couldn’t hear Dixon’s message: he had become so obsessed with going against mainstream reporters like Joy-Ann Reid and David Fahrenthold that he didn’t realize it was the online, progressive, pro-Bernie community, of which he had been a vocal advocate, were the ones asking him to disavow Johnstone and Cernovich, not the Reids and Fahrentholds of this world.

  72. 72.

    Ohio Mom

    @Corner Stone: Yeah, we respect the rules, and they get to call themselves the Law and Order party. It *is* always projection with them.

    @Gin & Tonic: My condolences. There were a number of WWII survivors in my family — only a couple remain — and I recognize what you say about their perseverance.

  74. 74.

    Mike in NC

    My wife and I were at a supermarket not long ago where a couple of the employees working the cash register joked about being Deplorables. I said that both of our fathers fought the Deplorables in World War 2 and we were grateful that they didn’t live to see what was happening to this fucking country.

  77. 77.

    Steve in the ATL

    Short but disturbing conversation with Black night watchman at hospital:

    Is there a way to change the channel on the tv in the lounge?
    Sure, buttons are on the back.
    Great—I hate hearing Fox News blasting.
    I love Fox News.
    You like being lied to?
    No, you like being lied to!

  79. 79.

    tobie

    @Mary G: HA Goodman is deranged. Like quite a few Bernie dead-enders, he simply cannot accept that the overwhelming majority of Democratic primary voters did not want Sanders as the party’s standard bearer. That the media continue to portray Sanders as the heart-and-soul of the Democratic party is more disturbing. It was only two weeks ago that we were told that true progressives were going to propel Kucinich over the finish line in the Democratic primary for the OH gubernatorial race in a stunning rebuke to the party establishment.

  81. 81.

    Feebog

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Condolences. My dad, also a WW II veteran passed away in 2014, just two months shy of 94. My dad was a diehard Democrat to his dying day. How diehard? He shared his birthday with h Richard Nixon. So he declared his birthday as March 15 and insisted we celebrate it then rather than in January.

  89. 89.

    Fair Economist

    @sdhays: The easy comment about MS-13 is “oh, the Hispanic gang Trump is protecting from deportation”. Because, he really is. Under Trump deportations of criminals are actually *down* while deportations of good, honest residents are way up. There was one case where a member of MS-13 went to immigration to report a cell. They’re deporting *him* and letting the cell stay.

    They are deliberately trying to keep criminals in the country while deporting everybody else.

  90. 90.

    Peale

    @efgoldman: well since they did vote once before, we can assume that they’d be likely to vote again, and we need to find voters somewhere. Probably better to start with existing voters than to hope that the tens of millions who sat it out completely will come to the rescue.

  91. 91.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Peale:
    Don’t hold your breath on the online Wilmerites. They think their Messiah had something to do with increased Democratic turnout in recent elections.

    ETA:

    hope that the tens of millions who sat it out completely will come to the rescue.

    I thought there was evidence of this happening. That more people were beginning to pay attention?

  95. 95.

    Manxome Bromide

    @Corner Stone: @Peale: This is why I had to dodge around that fact in the question, sticking to “are associated with”. It’s very much not “which one do they come from.” There’s probably a real discussion to be had about the wisdom of deporting criminals to places where they’ll have more power available post-deportation, but I can’t imagine having it as a society for a long, long time.

  96. 96.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Manxome Bromide: my Lyft driver from hotel to SFO was from El Salvador. I’m lucky to have survived the encounter with a young woman who was almost certainly an MS-13 gangbanger.

  101. 101.

    efgoldman

    @Peale:

    Probably better to start with existing voters

    As I’ve said many times in this space, THE LEFTIER THAN THOUS DON’T VOTE OR DO POLITICS in any way that can get someone elected or nominated. They’re too fucking pure. They can’t wrangle or count votes, they just go on the intartoobz and tell us we’re doing it Rong. They’re intartoobz presence is much larger than their real numbers.

    Fuckem

  102. 102.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Trump: “Immigrants coming into our country are animals.”
    Village: Well, you have to look at the proper context

    Michelle Wolf: “Trump isn’t rich”
    Village: LIBERALS HATE WHITES!

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    @lamh36:
    I am gawd damn jealous and nevertheless want you to have the greatest gawd damn time possible. #Kissawallaby

  107. 107.

    Platonailedit

    This all started with Meghan’s friend setting her up on a blind date with Prince Harry. My friends are actually useless.— t-yan (@ovotiann) May 19, 2018

  110. 110.

    jl

    @Platonailedit: Useless friends who don’t set you up with a beautiful movie star or handsome dashing prince is a huge problem all over the world. My useless friends have never set me up with a beautiful, smart, rich actress.

    I think she is brave for staring a long over due discussion of this social epidemic of these useless friends.

  111. 111.

    frosty

    @Gin & Tonic: To make it through a bottleneck like WW II in the East is a blessing.. Like you said, everything that comes after is lagniappe. And to go at 94 with all your faculties is also a blessing. It’s what all of us would want.

  112. 112.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Goodman has since changed his tune. He now has a pro-Second Amendment YouTube channel and is now openly supporting Trump’s 2020 re-election bid on his Twitter account.

    Goodman always said he was primarily concerned about the endangered white working class. He hasn’t changed his tune at all, just switched choirmasters.

    I know that the honest people who were duped into supporting Sanders early on hate it when I say this, but Sanders spent just as much of his time talking about the problems of white people as Trump did. Hillary was the only candidate who was talking about everyone’s problems, and that’s why broflakes like Goodman hated her. She didn’t prioritize white men like Trump and Sanders did.

  115. 115.

    frosty

    @lamh36: Have a great time!! My advice from a trip a couple of years ago: keep the phone off while sightseeing. You really don’t need to keep up with the news

    OTOH, you need to keep us jackals appraised of your meanderings, so hit us up once a day.

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m so sorry. It sounds like he had a good long run and a very full life, but that doesn’t make it hurt any less.

  118. 118.

    hervevillechaizelounge

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I know I’m a terrible person but I’m trying to think of a ruse to lure the Spanish-hating lawyer into a white power rally, ideally while wearing a keppi.

    Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is still my freakin’ enemy.

  119. 119.

    SectionH

    @lamh36: Yay! (I’ve been on that flight before – one of the better “tag ends” imx – none of them are fun.)

    You’re gonna track down Sarah P&T, right?

  120. 120.

    Mnemosyne

    Okay, one last royal wedding tweet. This one made me realize one of the reasons I’m so fascinated by William and Harry and so fervently hope that they are happy — I also lost my mother when I was young, so I empathized with them more than I think I consciously realized.

    Highlight: Harry hand-picked Meghan’s bouquet from the memorial garden that he and his brother established last year in honor of their mother Diana.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LondonaLozzy/status/997837825193193474

  121. 121.

    JAFD

    @efgoldman: Speaking as someone who – fifty years ago – rang doorbells for Gene McCarthy…
    Every so often, a political party needs someone to make a Quixhotic campaign against the ‘establishment’. OTOH, to be that maverick you need someone with more ego and more ‘confidence in their ability to reshape reality’ than even the average politician, and he will attract followers like himself .
    If you look at Sen. McCarthy’s post-68 career, you may see some parallels with today (then, again, maybe you won’t)
    And some of Bernie’s followers will learn and become ‘realistic’ and/or mature (If I owned a car, would have bumpersticker ‘Spiro Agnew Made Me A Democrat’ (The rejoinder, to paraphrase a _really_ old joke, was “If I got him the wool, would he make me one, too ?”))

  122. 122.

    Shalimar

    @Mnemosyne: I voted for Sanders in the Florida primary, and pretty much came to agree with you during the Nevada fallout and run up to the convention. The movement was exposed as something I would never have signed up for if I had realized it sooner.

  124. 124.

    some guy

    (((JonathanWeisman)))

    Americas’ Stenographer of Note (FTFNYT, et alia) will not be upstaged by (((Other)))

  125. 125.

    Mnemosyne

    @Shalimar:

    Early on, I did think that it was good to have Sanders pushing the party to the left, but he overstayed his welcome by a LOT. Nevada where his followers were booing women Democrats was probably the last straw for me, too. ?

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    @Corner Stone:

    Guy who can’t sustain a long-term relationship with a woman says what?

    ETA: Good reminder that I needed to update the pie filter on this phone, at least. Bye-bye.

  128. 128.

    frosty

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): [from downstairs] Congrats on the SG! I’ve got two of ’em — I left a couple of comments. Main one is that if you have any tuning problems, and they’re notorious for that, try a string set with a wound G. It’s worked for me. After that, channel your inner John Cipollina, Frank Zappa, Derek Trucks, etc., and have a great time!

  129. 129.

    Corner Stone

    @Mnemosyne: I have a 25 year ongoing relationship with my ex. We don’t lie to each other. You, however, do not seem to be able to tell the truth from one day to the next.

  131. 131.

    J R in WV

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m sorry to hear of your, our loss. Those older guys from Europe, they know more about this Trump and his misrule than most of us do. They had a lot they could have taught us, but didn’t because it seemed less important here.

    I’m glad he had an easy passage out of here. Maybe just in time to miss some big bad times. Best of luck with the family, getting over the loss and back into the routines. Take care of each other and stay in touch.

    Not too much Gin, tho. ;-)

  132. 132.

    SectionH

    Streaming the Nā Hōkū Hanohano Awards right now. Well, I was. Got notices from Amy and Na Leo. Trying to find a live stream again. (Ok, seems to be back.)

  133. 133.

    Anne Laurie

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Goodman has since changed his tune. He now has a pro-Second Amendment YouTube channel and is now openly supporting Trump’s 2020 re-election bid on his Twitter account.

    Well, he’s not alone among the “only true progressive” BernieBros… a lot of them basically want a White Man’s Fantasy Anarchy of which *they* can be part of the ruling elite.

    Although, to be fair, I suspect Goodman’s particular case is covered under the useful tag Grifters Gonna Grift.

  134. 134.

    SectionH

    Or not. I think they were streaming through KFVE 5, but have been interrupted by moar Volcano updates.

  135. 135.

    SectionH

    @Anne Laurie: Srsly? My gut reaction is that he at least was a useful tool.

    I was appalled at how many friends of mine were Bernie idiots. To be fair, the standouts of my friends had had an actual economic hard time. Including shit like their house being taken for a runway expansion and srsly not enough “fair value” for the money. So that’s kind of understandable.

  137. 137.

    Anne Laurie

    @SectionH:

    My gut reaction is that he at least was a useful tool.

    My gut reaction, starting from the first H.A. Goodman YouTube clip I tried to watch, is that he certainly qualifies as a tool.

    Never had much patience for Bloviating Guys Who Know Everything Better Than You (as you may remember, since that used to get me in biiiiig trouble, back in my sf fandom days… )

  138. 138.

    SectionH

    @Anne Laurie: Hey, winning an argument on the facts precipitated the breakup between me and my first BF in college. He wasn’t even a fanboi, but yeah, I was that kind of girl.

    eta,

  139. 139.

    NotMax

    @SectionH

    Amy Gilliom? Not the easiest person to have amenable interaction with, especially on a stage. Her also talented brother Eric, though, is a peach.

  140. 140.

    SectionH

    @NotMax: Well, Amy H anyway. She hasn’t been Gilliom in a couple of decades. (I just like some of her songs, ok?)

  141. 141.

    SectionH

    Too slow to edit.

    I don’t keep up with what’s going on with Hawaiian music as much as I should, considering how much I like it – I used to stream Mountain Apple back in the day, which was full of old songs, but that was educational too. I haven’t paid as much attention lately as I wish I could have, but when I got 2 notices, I did try to watch the live streaming.

    Does Eric have music out there? I’m always interested. I used to hit a bunch of stores when we’d fly into OGG, hoping to find more srsly Polynesian. It was kind of depressing that nobody knew Ok Ryos, for instance. I know, we have Youtube now, he’s there.

    late edit: Negone

  143. 143.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SectionH: Nearly every Democratic voter I know in real life was a Bernie supporter. A few of them were into it enough to believe the “rigged primary” dumbness. None, and I mean NONE, of them went for H. A. Goodman’s Jill Stein, Bernie-or-Bust shtick.

  145. 145.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Goodman has since changed his tune.

    No change whatsoever. He’s completely on brand.

    Why anyone thought a trust fund dipshit from the Hamptons was a hardcore leftist does a lot to explain why we can’t have nice things.

  146. 146.

    germy

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Melania Trump returned to the White House in “high spirits” on Saturday following a weeklong hospitalization for kidney treatment, a lengthy stay that raised questions about whether the first lady’s condition may have been more complicated than first revealed.

    President Donald Trump heralded her homecoming with a tweet that referred to her as “Melanie” instead of “Melania.”

    “Great to have our incredible First Lady back home in the White House. Melanie is feeling and doing really well. Thank you for all of your prayers and best wishes!” Trump wrote before quickly superseding that tweet with another that spelled his wife’s name correctly.

  147. 147.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Mnemosyne:

    honest people who were duped into supporting Sanders

    No one was duped. It was clear what he was after his people lied about the data breach in 2015 and used it to fund raise. Those people were into their white privilege as much as anyone – they just aren’t self aware.

  148. 148.

    Bobby Thomson

    @tobie:

    It was only two weeks ago that we were told that true progressives were going to propel Kucinich over the finish line in the Democratic primary for the OH gubernatorial race in a stunning rebuke to the party establishment.

    By the same people who cherry picked a handful of primary races to warn about the coming insurgent wave.

  149. 149.

    Gex mobile

    @Gin & Tonic: seriously. There are several people here who post juicy tidbits without links or even citing a source. I stopped bothering asking for links though, I just Google the passages since they keep doing this.

  150. 150.

    Captain C

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: They may say otherwise, but I suspect the hard core Bros are thinking something along the lines of “well, at least he’s supporting the white dude who beat That Bitch who stole Bernie’s rightful crown.”

  151. 151.

    Captain C

    @Steeplejack: Vincent Bugliosi, prosecutor of Charles Manson, wrote a book called The Betrayal of America in which,IIRC, he demolishes the Supremes’ BS decision with legal reasoning.

  153. 153.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @hellslittlestangel: Heinlein once pointed out that the most effective way to lie is to tell the truth, all of it – but in such a fashion that your listener is convinced you’re lying. Keep in mind all those savvy folks in the 1920s who read Mein Kampf & said, “Well of course he doesn’t mean the really extreme parts.”

  154. 154.

    Dman

    tRumps latest tweet

    I hereby demand, and will do so officially tomorrow, that the Department of Justice look into whether or not the FBI/DOJ infiltrated or surveilled the Trump Campaign for Political Purposes – and if any such demands or requests were made by people within the Obama Administration!

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