Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

Fani Willis claps back at Trump chihuahua, Jim Jordan.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

People are weird.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: The Best Revenge Is A Life Well Lived

Monday Morning Open Thread: The Best Revenge Is A Life Well Lived

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  4. 4.

    Baud

    “Get there. Be successful. And then come back and help somebody else, from the school or your community.” 

    I’m still working on getting there.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I was on my way There when I was run over by a Peterbuilt going the other way.

  10. 10.

    Peale

    @Immanentize: in case you haven’t noticed, all of Baud’s “On the road or in your backyard” submissions have been photos of his TV taken from a sofa. “getting up” is probably the most we can hope for from the perennial candidate.

  13. 13.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Baud! 2020! He might get you a soda while he’s up!

    Needs work I guess.

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Quinerly: Some friends of mine just adopted their 2nd cleft child from China. Last week we were down in the lower end of their property setting some fence posts when his wife called to say T was coming down to see us. We looked up and sure enough there he was taking his 3 1/2 year old self on the 1/4 mile trek down to where we were working being followed and watched over by one of their guardian dogs.

    My buddy commented on the fact that less than a month ago T was living in an overcrowded understaffed Shanghai orphanage where he had spent his entire life with no small amount of his time was spent confined to his crib and now here he was freely roaming the wide open spaces with his dog, and he wondered at what T was thinking about his change of circumstances. I wonder too at how this little boy is processing it all and even more so wonder at how well he is adapting to it all.

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly: I love beagles. Saw a photo of Guy riding in the backseat with QE2. They both looked happy. Maybe he has met the dorgis, maybe not.

    Moar rescues this week, please.

  29. 29.

    Drunkenhausfrau

    Question: anyone else read Rosenstein’s statement to broaden the IG investigation and see that he didn’t specify which presidential campaign? So, does that mean anti Hilary FBI guys who allegedly were giving Giuliani dirt could be swept up? Please?

  31. 31.

    Kay

    “We want the concentration of this to be on Comey versus the president’s credibility, and I think we win that” — Giuliani arguing that Trump will be seen as more credible than Comey in an obstruction of justice case.

    Such an awful lying hack and the NYTimes is quoting him in headlines as if he’s some kind of government official.

    The system is failing. It’s like a series of nets and we fall thru one and land in the one beneath it- sometimes the lower one holds for a while but then the Trump Administration gets worse and we drop a few more levels, so it isn’t predictable when the next lurching descent will occur, but they keep happening. We already broke thru the net called “Congress” and now we’re falling thru the net called “DOJ/FBI”. The only thing left will be elections.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    Guy the rescue beagle rode with QE2 in her Land Rover, when they traveled to Windsor in advance of the royal wedding.

    Love seeing his little head looking out the window. Elle article.

    QE2’s dogs are named Vulcan and Candy.

  35. 35.

    Butch

    Well, on the subject of rescues, Saturday morning we were headed out to the greenhouse and about a mile from home spotted two little furballs sitting next to the road – two kittens. We stopped and picked them up, a little grey and white and a buttermilk kitty, and we think from their size no more than 6 or 7 weeks old, if that. We live way out in the country and there were no houses nearby so it was obvious they had been dumped – there is no way these tiny guys could have walked to where we found them. Two of our cats are 18 and we had been waiting to add to our brood because we didn’t want to upset their lives, but the discussion about whether to take these kittens to the shelter or keep them lasted a few nanoseconds….no names yet and we have them set up in a spare bedroom (food, water, soft bed, and littler box) until the vet can make sure they’re free of parasites (luckily we have a mobile vet) before we introduce them to the house. One is a real adventurer and wants to explore the house; the other is very shy and will take some work…..It was not what we expected when we went for tomato plants.

  36. 36.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Ugh. The DOJ shouldn’t have folded. Now they take orders from the President. They can dress it up any way they want but that’s fact. Yesterday was a really bad day for the country. They were tested and they failed. Another failure.

    Trump didn’t create this weakness in institutions. All he did was test them, push them so they were in a corner and had to perform and they’re failing. I thought they were stronger than they have turned out to be. You don’t really know until they’re tested- under stress- and they’re being stressed by Trump and they’re not holding.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: Headline of breaking news alert FTF Vichy NYTimes sent out yesterday afternoon:

    Breaking news: Robert Mueller plans to finish by Sept. 1 investigating whether President Trump tried to obstruct the Russia inquiry, Rudolph Giuliani said

    20 words before “RGiuliani said”, casting the first part in doubt.

    Isn’t writing a quickly informative headline part of Journalism 101 for breaking news? Here’s another breaking news headline from this weekend:

    Breaking news: A plane said to be carrying 105 people crashed after takeoff from airport in Havana. Only three survived, Cuban state media reported.

    So: if you got that one in your email queue, as I did, you would have no idea where the plane crashed. Did the US experience a plane crash, after years of safety?

    Couldn’t a headline like “Cuban state media reports plane crash near Havana, jet reportedly carried 105 people” work wonders?

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    @Butch:
    I take it the little’uns are staying. Do you know yet if they are boys or girls? Will there be pictures? We jackals luvs kitteh pictures.

  41. 41.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Trump is tweeting, five so far this morning. We’re going to have GREAT trade with China, “China must continue to be strong & tight on the Border of North Korea until a deal is made,” John Brennan (who tweeted very critically of The Orange One last night) is a disgrace to the Country.”

    His lawyers are also rousing him up and have said publicly that they’re not going to stand for DOJ’s attempt at a dodge last night.

    Pretty normal morning so far.

  43. 43.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: wonderful story, very happy that family found each other.

    @Butch: better than tomato plants! Thank you for saving them before one or both were killed. Wishing for years of happiness and love for all of you.

    @rikyrah: good morning ?

  44. 44.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Another view on the trade war –

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Caving to Trump’s absurd demand seems like a DOJ failure to me too, but some takes I’ve read suggest that expanding the scope of the IG probe forestalls the confrontation with Rosenstein that Trump was angling for, thereby thwarting his plan to bury Mueller’s report. I don’t know.

  50. 50.

    stinger

    Thank you, Anne Laurie, for a wonderful post to wake up to — Mrs. Obama, voting challenge/optimism, Secretary Clinton, and a pup!

    Good morning to the Jackals, especially Poco. Y’all have me falling out of my chair laughing with your bumper sticker slogans.

  51. 51.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    It appears John Brennan is the culprit (or should I say CULPRIT!)

    “John Brennan is panicking. He has disgraced himself, he has disgraced the Country, he has disgraced the entire Intelligence Community. He is the one man who is largely responsible for the destruction of American’s faith in the Intelligence Community and in some people at the….— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 21, 2018

    ….top of the FBI. Brennan started this entire debacle about President Trump. We now know that Brennan had detailed knowledge of the (phony) Dossier…he knows about the Dossier, he denies knowledge of the Dossier, he briefs the Gang of 8 on the Hill about the Dossier, which….— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 21, 2018

  52. 52.

    Butch

    To everyone who responded – yes, they are staying. The little grey and white one appears to be a girl, and the shy buttermilk is a boy, we believe. They are teacup size – I’m actually wondering if I should go buy a couple of cans of the special kitty milk and a bottle because they’re so tiny. Now we just need names for them; our current kitties are Wilson, Moorea, Mooch, and Spooky…..my past attempts at posting pictures from the GoPro haven’t been, um, entirely successful, but I’ll try! Thank you for the thoughts. We could not stand to pass them by.

  53. 53.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    Oh he’s quoting someone I never heard of:

    …they then used to start an investigation about Trump. It is that simple. This guy is the genesis of this whole Debacle. This was a Political hit job, this was not an Intelligence Investigation. Brennan has disgraced himself, he’s worried about staying out of Jail.” Dan Bongino— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 21, 2018

  55. 55.

    satby

    @Butch: yes, get the kitten milk and bottle feed them if they can’t drink from a bowl yet. They’ll be better off with the supplement even if they seem to be eating.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Agree. That piece is awful.

    The NYTimes seems to be utterly incapable of covering NYC celebrities in any kind of rigorous or detached way. This is a pattern and it’s centered on the fact that all of these people are part of a NYC power structure. I’m convinced that’s key to it- they “know” Trump and Rudy and that has skewed their coverage.

    Imagine if Trump were a real estate developer from Arkansas. Or Chicago. Or Los Angeles. The coverage would be completely different based solely on geography. He wouldn’t be a presumptive big shot – there are lots and lots of real estate developers in the US and many of them are richer than Donald Trump.

    KEY to Donald Trump is 1. NYC’s (assumed) higher status in the order of places and 2. the dominance of NYC media.

    I don’t know what to do about it. They lead national coverage. It will stay like this as long as he’s President. It’ll just have to be gotten around.

  59. 59.

    Amir Khalid

    @Elizabelle:
    I would have written the headline: “Giuliani claims Mueller will finish investigating obstruction of the Russia inquiry by Sept. 1”, to give proper emphasis to the fact that it’s Giuliani’s claim and no one else’s.

  60. 60.

    kd bart

    Damn Hilllary!!! Forcing Harvard to give her an award. I demand a Congressional investigation.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thanks- I read one of those takes too but I don’t believe it. Sometimes a show of strength is really important and this was one of those times. They can’t cover their bets with Trump. He’s directly challenging their independence. It’s almost jurisdictional – that basic an issue- he is OUT of line. It literally made me queasy when I read they were folding and that apologetic, cowed statement! Jesus. Get up off your knees.

    It won’t be a catastrophe. It won’t be night and day. It won’t be “that was The Day Justice Died”. But it just keeps getting worse. We just dropped another floor on the broken elevator. I don’t know how many floors are left. One? Maybe two.

  64. 64.

    Waratah

    @Cheryl Rofer: thank you for this I had the same impression as Paul on this agreement to talk about tariffs. it was not only farmers that were not happy about them.

  69. 69.

    Platonailedit

    Love that bring your thoughts and prayers here tweet. The left has to value their own votes all the time like the racists do.

  71. 71.

    satby

    @Elizabelle: @Amir Khalid: I should have some kitten updates soon, too. I’m trying hard not to adopt one of our little deaf white kittens, hoping we find a home where he can be as cherished as he deserves. I love my pets, but I’m pretty sure most of them would prefer to belong to a less numerous herd and get more personal attention.

  72. 72.

    jonas

    @Baud: When Trump’s empire comes crashing down around him and he’s forced to liquidate all his holdings to pay back fines and all his ill-gotten gains over the decades, I really would like to see Jeff Bezos buy one or more Trump National golf clubs for pennies on the dollar and donate them to the Clinton Foundation.

  73. 73.

    Peale

    @Baud: my fear has been that he will eventually find someone willing to lock her up along with Valerie Jarret and Obama. His voters are convinced that she skated with an assist from the others. Eventually he’ll find someone to investigate Pelosi, too.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    It struck me during Obama’s first campaign. How they treated Chicago like some remote polar outpost.

    “We know NOTHING about this individual!” as if he was this obscure ward boss or something and it was impossible to find out anything about a Chicago-based Illinois senator. Like they had to set up a phone line and contact the natives of this frozen land. They used to bring on Lynne Sweet as the Obama Expert from the hinterlands.

    They know Trump. That has completely shaped coverage. The NYTimes needs to be knocked out of the lead in covering Trump. We need journalists who DON’T know Trump. I suspect that’s why the WaPo has been better. NYC real estate crooks aren’t their natural habitat, their 50 year project.

  81. 81.

    AM in NC

    @Kay: I really like your metaphor for how stable, representative systems of government are supposed to work, and how the layers of redundant safeguards are currently failing us one by one. Hope it’s ok that I plan to use this myself at some future date!

  84. 84.

    Kay

    I know this sounds churlish but I don’t care. I’m not asking for acts of bravery. I’m asking them to just stop failing. Rosenstein didn’t invent the DOJ. He doesn’t have to reinvent it. He just has to maintain standards. It was handed to him. All he has to do is keep it- do the minimum.

    Comey with his delusions of grand gestures and his bullshit that the entire credibility was resting on his shoulders- not helpful! All they have to do is follow the 50,000 people that came before them. It’s like “you just stand there, okay? Don’t get creative”.

  85. 85.

    Bruce K

    Talk all you want about living well being the best revenge, but there’s something to be said for bringing your enemy’s severed head home in a shopping bag, especially these days.

  86. 86.

    rikyrah

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    They got their azzes handed to them.
    The precision of the Chinese blowback was something to behold. They knew EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
    The Chinese knew EXACTLY who they were going to Phuck with.
    They targeted MAGA-land.And, Bravo to them for doing so.

  87. 87.

    Kay

    @AM in NC:

    Maybe I personalize this too much but I had this horrible, terrifying childbirth once. So I’m fairly healthy and I avoid hospitals but when I have to go they have always “worked”- I walked out of there. So you come to depend on that- “it will be FINE”. This wasn’t fine. Everyone was failing. It was like “bad, crazy nurse hands off to incompetent doctor” and with each passing hour it was getting worse. And I was saying “I’ve had babies before- this is NOT FINE” but then I’d tell myself, “they know what they’re doing”. But they didn’t. And at some point it occurred to me “this is really bad”, and it was. It came out okay – by then I was no longer conscious but apparently they called someone who knew what to do-but the thing was I never anticipated it could all fail in a chain like that and it did.

    There’s that heart-sinking moment where you’re like “they’re all failing”.

  88. 88.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Bruce K:

    living well being the best revenge, but there’s something to be said for bringing your enemy’s severed head home in a shopping bag,

    I thought they were one and the same.

  90. 90.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @rikyrah:
    Leftover egg and milk from yesterday’s french toast (about 1/4 cup)
    1/4 cup ground blue corn
    1/4 tsp baking powder
    1 tbsp butter, melted
    Mix together and bake on a grill. Serve with maple syrup or butter. Serves 1.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    Comey’s still on the book circuit, right? Ask him how well bending over backward to appease Republicans works.

    He got fired. And Rosenstien will get fired too. He basically fired himself when he showed them he could be intimidated. He’s done. They’ll jerk him around for a while as long as he’s useful and then they’ll accuse him of bias.

  92. 92.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    Take it easy. The systems are not failing one by one. That’s just how it feels because of the nonstop deluge of bad Trump stories. The president did not get the actual criminal witch hunt he wanted. He got ‘okay, sure, we’ll run an audit.’ He tried to abuse the system and FAILED. You know how you were panicking about Giuliani destroying Mueller’s credibility? Well, the NYT may be doing exactly what they’ve been doing since day one, but everywhere else the narrative has been evolving into ‘Wow, Giuliani is insane, isn’t he?’ Things are bad, but they’re not getting worse systemically. They’re coasting at the same level. Heaven knows Trump keeps knocking chips off our economy and regulations, but that is nothing like the spiraling systemic collapse you get scared of.

    I’m less confident of it, but I don’t think you’re right about the news and New York. It’s a particular social circle that’s mostly DC rich they can’t see outside of. If the news presented things from the NYC perspective, it would have roasted Trump as an extreme, unbearable asshole from day one. The NYT is 75% a Republican partisan propaganda outlet these days, but it has been for years. That’s just really obvious when they support an oaf like Trump.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They didn’t do any due diligence of Trump because they know him. But other people didn’t know him. People here know him from The Apprentice. They made assumptions.

    I don’t know that Guiliani “failed”. Liberals may find him amusing but he just got the DOJ to launch a bullshit investigation so I bet he considers that quite the win. They didn’t have to say anything, the DOJ. The President can’t order them to respond. All they had to do was stand there.

  95. 95.

    rikyrah

    Over the years I have severely sprained my left ankle. Never broken,but severe sprains. I usually use the weekend to rest it. From Thursday on, it has been a series of things that brought me to this point of pain. I had a busy weekend, and it just took a toll. No way that I could get to work today.? Just gonna elevate, ice and do exercises on it.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The whole point of “process” and “norms” is to insulate them. They can use it. Instead they have adopted this ridiculous political posture of “transparency”. They’re not supposed to be political actors! If they don’t enter this realm then they don’t have to manage it. We expressly gave them cover and they won’t use it.

    When Trump attacked the judge the judge didn’t come out and say “let me explain my thinking” or “in the interest of transparency I’m going to respond about the litigation”. He took the hit and used the process and norms to insulate himself and Trump moved on to politicizing something else. All they have to do is hold. No one is asking them for anything else. No statements. No books. No explanations and press conferences. No one even remembers that judge’s name and that’s the way he wants it. They’re not political actors. They don’t have to do any of this.

  98. 98.

    tobie

    Giuliani, Trump, Dan Scavino and Kelly Anne Conway are like a four-headed Goebbels monster. Unfortunately for us they’ve got their finger on the pulse of the Republican voter and their propaganda campaign is working. Dems need to find a way fast to counter this garbage about a witch hunt, an FBI plant, government spying on the Trump campaign, Obama’s abuse of power, Hillary’s collusion with foreign powers, etc. I live in a super conservative, rural county and I can tell that this spin has gained traction.

  99. 99.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    The president can order them to respond. That has been the answer from experts. He can order them to run the full criminal probe he wants, but they sidestepped him because it’s wildly inappropriate even if it’s legal.

    Giuliani is becoming a joke everywhere but the right wing crazy circle, where they were already in a land of derangement just like his. He may or may not have been involved in the latest asshole thing Trump has spewed out. Trump will do that every day, because he is an asshole. Like the ‘Mueller is about to get fired!’ stories that isn’t the system degrading, it’s the same bad level we’ve been at for a year. It’s what you get with Republicans in charge. The destruction you were worried about didn’t happen, we just moved to the next piece of assholery. Like we didn’t launch any new wars, and Trump’s attempt at a trade war is failing.

    Trump is going to flail, because he’s an ignorant asshole. He is going to do it constantly. Don’t let the deluge trick you into thinking it’s accelerating. The system is holding at the level of ‘Republicans elected a bunch of assholes to fuck shit up.’ That’s bad, but it’s not a descent into government collapse.

  102. 102.

    Ella in New Mexico

    So today on he serendipitous meandering that is Twitter posts with links to threads to articles and back to posts, I learned a few things in the comments section of an article about this informant guy: a lot of pro-Trump people are going to say HE was sic’d on Trump by the “Deep State” and that he actively tried to get each person in the campaign he was in contact with meetings with known Russian operatives. The story will go that he is a “known dirty tricks operator” from previous Nixon/Reagan/Bush administration scandals and that THAT is what this whole thing will be shown to be: a set up to lure in unsuspecting Trumpies who never would have had these contacts were it not for his help…

    Amazing how “Random People in Comments Sections” of news posts seem to know a whole, hell of a lot of inside info….couldn’t be plants themselves, I’m sure– they’re just good citizens…

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I maintain that you are relying on individuals in Trumpworld being incompetent and I’m asking, no DEMANDING, something else.

    I get to depend on process. I shouldn’t have to rely on the low quality Trump hires FAILING for the system to work! It’s supposed to work no matter WHO is in charge.

    It’s not individuals. It’s not “good guys” and “bad guys”. It’s not arbitrary like that. They can protect themselves with that concept – process- but they refuse to use it. He pushes them over a line and then we all wring our hands and say “well, hopefully they can manage this!” They don’t belong there AT ALL. They’re in the wrong place. Process and norms aren’t “technicalities” and this legalistic parsing of whether this particulr tweet violated an existing statute is the wrong analysis. Process IS the law. It is substantive.

    They don’t have to blaze a new trail. In fact, this will work a lot better if they stay in their lane.

  104. 104.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    Breaking news: Robert Mueller plans to finish by Sept. 1 investigating whether President Trump tried to obstruct the Russia inquiry, Rudolph Giuliani said

    I don’t see how this is news at all Rudy G is not a spokesperson for the Mueller team.

  105. 105.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @tobie:

    Dems need to find a way fast to counter this garbage about a witch hunt, an FBI plant, government spying on the Trump campaign, Obama’s abuse of power, Hillary’s collusion with foreign powers, etc. I live in a super conservative, rural county and I can tell that this spin has gained traction.

    But who will your super conservative rural neighbors listen to? Not the Dems, surely. And frankly, maybe they will never abandon their Dear Leader – even as much of the rest of the country ultimately rejects him and removes him from office.

  106. 106.

    sdhays

    @Frankensteinbeck: There’s a particular NYC perspective that Kay is talking about, and it isn’t the perspective of the majority of people who live in that city. It’s the perspective of the (primarily white) people with Park Avenue condos who think they own this country (because they do, to some degree).

  107. 107.

    Elizabelle

    @Brachiator: You’d never know it from the FTF Vichy Times headline. Which is ass backwards in composition.

    That statement is attributed to Giuliani — a truth-challenged individual, who is not (as you point out) associated with the Mueller team — arrives very late.

  108. 108.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    At this point, I’m not sure what you’re saying. Norms are not the law. Rosenstein is obeying the law. There are gaps in the law that can be abused always, or things like the bribery issues that are incredibly hard to enforce. Trump is going to probe them nonstop. Republicans probe them nonstop. That’s what they do. Elections have consequences, and a bunch of assholes elected the worst assholes they can find. It’s not a good situation. It’s also not deteriorating. Yes, of course I’d prefer that incompetence wasn’t what was protecting us, but thankfully incompetence is built into the abuse. The situation, again, is not deteriorating. Pieces of shit are spewing out of the administration nonstop, but the courts are holding, law enforcement is holding, the worst you can say is Trump has managed to avoid a couple of things like screwing with sanctions just because he can do it by sitting on his ass and doing nothing. That isn’t getting worse, it’s been the situation almost since day one, same as the ICE being sadistically horrible. The fourth estate is getting if anything slightly tougher on Trump. Voters are certainly activated in a way they’ve never been. Trump’s attacks on the system, like the voter fraud commission, have been routinely failing. The system isn’t collapsing. Relax a little. The level of shit we’re at is enough to depress anyone, but it’s not worth panic.

    EDIT – @sdhays:
    But they detest Trump even more than the man in the street, and that’s saying something.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    It’s just frustrating to me because they take these really bizarre concepts into the mainstream and then everyone adjusts- “well, it’s not like there’s a specific statute that says the President can’t order an investigation” Okey doke.

    I mean, I am a lawyer and this seems excessively legalistic and almost tragically missing the point to me. It isn’t about interpreting the code. That’s a different exercise.

    We’re now at “it’s fine unless someone is convicted for it” which is really as low a standard as we can possibly set.

  111. 111.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    We are not at ‘It’s fine unless someone is convicted for it.’ You may have noticed, but no Democrats think it’s fine. You can’t be convicted for it unless you can be convicted of it. If you can be convicted of it, that process moves very slowly. The national news is going to blither about both sides no matter what. That’s been the situation for at least two decades, probably four. This, too, has not changed.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It’s also not deteriorating

    Well, we disagree. He went from threatening a judge (who wisely, shut the fuck up, took the hit on the smears and did his job) to threatening the FBI and the DOJ who, stupidly, are now engaging in a negotiation with the insane bully and his pack of corrupt criminals.

    They should have stood up. It’s all they had to do.

  113. 113.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:

    They should have stood up. It’s all they had to do.

    They do not have that option. A judge can ignore the president. Rosenstein’s job says he has to respond.

  114. 114.

    tobie

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: You’re right that fire-breathing Republicans won’t listen to Dems but what worries me more is that Trump has been so normalized that his administration no longer seems like an absolute clusterfvck to Republicans initially wary of him. Look at what’s happened to the Senate GOP. No one there speaks up. All are now mouthing the line that it’s time for the Mueller investigation to wrap up. This is a sea change. And if you look at the generic Congressional ballot, the Dem advantage has shrunk from 10 points to 5 points. This is alarming. We may feel that the White House is coming off the rails but low-info voters think, heck, he’s doing well, the economy is strong and he’s on the verge of negotiating a historic deal with North Korea. As I said earlier, Republican propaganda is working and we (as in institutional Dems) need to find a way to counter it fast.

  115. 115.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @tobie:

    This is a sea change.

    No it’s not. A few Republicans mouthing defiance and then behaving in zealous partisanship has been standard practice since at least Obama’s election. If anything, he’s getting small amounts of actual defiance. Not much. They’re being more open that white supremacy has motivated them. The generic congressional ballot fearmongering is also bullshit. The special elections have been consistent. We. Are. Killing. Them. The people who want you to believe our advantage is shrinking are the ones who assured us African Americans had stopped caring and we were going to get no significant gains in Virginia.

  116. 116.

    ruemara

    @tobie: How? Do you see your conservative friends listening to anyone even remotely liberal? Moderate? They don’t want facts. They want to believe this.

  117. 117.

    D58826

    FFS Pompeo’s Iran speech. It can be summed up in two words – regime change. Pompeo said that Obama should have submitted the agreement to the Senate in the form of a treaty. Let’s get real – if Obama had submitted Pompeo’s speech to the Senate the GOP would have blocked it.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    You’re right in the sense that it doesn’t matter as far as what I will do. I will do whatever, because the only control I have is elections.

    So “calm down” or “don’t calm down” doesn’t change anything so has no import. I’m not especially “panicked” either- I just believe I am watching something get worse. I think it’s a mistake to engage with them on their terms and it’s a kind of arrogance on the part of public officials to do so. They may or may not be able to manage this. A better option would be they don’t put themselves in a position to “manage” and they just do their jobs. Let go of the outcome. Just do the work and let it stand or fall. Comey was incapable of doing that and he says that’s “honor” but I think it’;s ego.

  119. 119.

    The Other Chuck

    If I were a smart Republican (I know, suspend your disbelief) running in the midterms, I would be getting out in front of the impeachment issue and calling for it myself, right NOW. I’d like to think the rats will eventually abandon the ship though.

  120. 120.

    tobie

    @Frankensteinbeck: I certainly hope you’re right and will put in a lot of shoe leather for the midterms in the fall. But I don’t think the shift in the Congressional ballot poll is entirely bullshit. Crazy though the Trump media operation is, it seems to be working. If we had better journalists, there might be some pushback. But it’s all he said/she said and this had lent their conspiracy theories and bullying maneuvers credibility. Heck, even epic blunders like the North Korea summit are being hailed as potentially historic victories.

  121. 121.

    rp

    @Ella in New Mexico: Of course, Greenwald immediately jumped all over this story. I have zero doubt at this point that he’s getting talking points directly from the RNC, Russia, the Trump admin., or all of the above.

  122. 122.

    tobie

    @ruemara: No, they don’t listen to liberals. But they were initially skeptical of Trump and now they are no longer. This is how I understand “normalization.” In our upside-down world his failures (starting and then recanting a trade war with China, moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, withdrawing from the Iran Deal and Paris Climate Accord, removing all preconditions for meeting with North Korea and even acceding in advance to North Korea’s demands re military exercises) are considered victories and his violation of norms (demonizing the intelligence community, launching investigations of his enemies, self-dealing, etc.) are considered justified acts (clearing the FBI of rank partisans, exposing the Witch Hunt, being a businessman etc.).

  124. 124.

    satby

    @Kay: @Frankensteinbeck: I agree with Frankensteinbeck here. It’s ugly, it’s awful to watch, and damage to what we hold dear in our country will need to be repaired. But norms are not laws, and now it’s obvious we’re going to need stricter laws passed.

    It’s been a different playing field for decades, and ignoring the media storm to focus on doing the right thing cost both John Kerry and Hillary Clinton elections. But the media storm is being used to demoralize our side, and we can’t let it.

  126. 126.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Matthew Yglesias @ mattyglesias
    Coverage of Trump’s rather sudden about-face on taxing Chinese imports should probably at least *mention* that a real estate project he’s involved with in Indonesia got a $500 million loan from the Chinese government earlier this month.

    ETA: I haven’t plugged into any media other than twitter this morning, is this being mentioned? Also, I gather Bush AG Mike Mukasey has an oped in USA Today calling for Meuller to wrap it up. Is anyone mentioning that his son is Rudi Giuliani’s former partner and seems to be representing half the subjects/targets of the Meuller investigation ?

  128. 128.

    Kelly

    We’re off to for 5 days of camping and rafting on the Deschutes river with my original whitewater adventure party. Met these guys in 1980. We were all in are 20’s and thought we were completely bulletproof. Used to look for challenging new class 4 and 5 rapids to run every few weeks. Now we perfect our camp cookery. None of us has ran a class 5 in 10 years.

    Weather forecast: mostly blue sky, highs in the low 80’s, lows in the high 50’s.

  129. 129.

    Mary G

    @satby: I have been reading morning threads late, but I am up early waiting for an electrician and wanted to say a happy belated birthday and hope Hershey is recovering well.

    I have to say I agree with Kay and tobie and you here. Sorry Frankensteinbeck. Trump has gotten rid of almost all his sane advisers and is emboldened by polling. The generic gap is down to four points at RCP today and with all the advantages Republicans have baked into the system, that means a tie.

    Twitler has been pushing the line for weeks and his “hereby demand” is a big shove over it. The crickets coming from the non-retiring Republicans in Congress is bad.

  130. 130.

    stinger

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Dorothy, your comment reminds me of what has long struck me as the most “This Is Not Normal” aspect of this presidency — the bashing of individuals, by name, in a public, international forum. And not just political opponents, such as Hilary and Obama, but anyone who crosses him in any way.

    As little as I liked W and felt at the time that he was one of our worst-ever presidents, I honestly can’t see him abusing Twitter (or other medium) in this way, had there been a Twitter then, of course. He was more decent than that, had more dignity, more respect for the office he held or for other human beings — something. Trump’s use of any platform for such a purpose is truly unprecedented. I am shocked every single time.

  131. 131.

    germy

    I didn’t watch SNL last night, but apparently Aidy Bryant came out during the final credits (when the cast and host stand around for final applause) dressed as the woman in the sunglasses who called the cops on the barbecue.

  137. 137.

    stinger

    @rikyrah: rikyrah, thank you for the link! I tuned into coverage of the ceremony by accident, and was immediately hooked and watched until the end of the landau ride. Now I feel like the little girl who follows the three official photos!

  138. 138.

    lamh36

    Greeting from Melbourne. It’s 1am here and I really need to go to sleep, but first wanted to check in with the BJ peeps.

    Flights were uneventful, which i still a blessing and I was able to check into hotel early which was a godsend.

    For a longer telling of the first day you can check out my blog here:

    ‪Journey to the Land of Oz…or…BlackNOLAGurl in Australia…Day 1 https://nellybellsplace.com/2018/05/21/journey-to-the-land-of-oz-or-blacknolagurl-in-australia-day-1/

    Also too, great big ole congratulations to my oldest nephew who graduated from high school today!!

    https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/998575585315078144?s=21

  140. 140.

    Elizabelle

    @Mary G: I don’t believe the polls, because they won’t pick up the young voters who will show up. And people who may not be habitual voters, but are woke and will show up this time. Mostly to not vote for Republicans.

    I think a lot of the polls screen for likely voters, which historically favors GOP since they are better at turnout than Dems are, and are less screened out by voter suppression. Who knows what turnout will actually be? Democrats have been punching above weight in virtually all of the special elections so far.

    It’s all noise at this point, IMHO.

    Most important: register voters, and make sure they have photo ID so they can cast their vote.

  143. 143.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @rikyrah: Edward-Isaac Dovere @ IsaacDovere
    Our Revolution president Nina Turner tried to hire her personal consultant as chief of staff, but was overruled by the board after complaints that the woman had no experience & has made offensive comments on Fox News

    Bernie also too only hires the best people

  145. 145.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: The examples we have from the special elections over the past year or so give a different view than the polls do. We have been been very successful in actual elections. I think that gives a better sense of the state of play than generic candidate polls do. But then my take on the situation is closer to Frankensteinbeck’s than Kay’s.

  146. 146.

    Corner Stone

    They have Mike Pompeo listed as 5’11”. He and Trump are standing eyeball to eyeball beside each other on stage. I think if Trump ever stood up straight and stopped slouching he might, might scratch 6’1″.

  148. 148.

    germy

    I keep getting bombarded with emails/comments/FB posts that if the FBI wasn't out to "get Trump" they would have warned him about the Russian threat when they discovered it.

    THEY DID. In July 2016.

    https://t.co/zR2Jxi6xFi
    — Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) May 21, 2018

  149. 149.

    germy

    "As for Our Revolution’s record in elections, Weaver said, “They’re trying to focus on getting the right shade of blue — they’re not always focused on the transactional approach of ‘electability.’”

    They aren't focused on getting people elected, in elections. ?

    — Kaylara's Bringing You Cold Cases ?️‍? (@KaylaraOwl) May 21, 2018

  150. 150.

    tobie

    @rikyrah: Saw that decision. How depressing. Kennedy is once again showing that when it comes to the rights of corporations over individuals he’s as far right as they come. Has he shown to be a swing vote on anything other than gay marriage?

  152. 152.

    J R in WV

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    They are also the people who promised us that Kucinich was going to win the Ohio primary he just lost by 60-40. Because everyone wishes that Bernard Sanders had been the Democratic presidential nominee — NOT!

    The MSM will tell us Trump is winning until the House and (maybe!) the Senate swing away from the Rs. Then they will tell us it doesn’t matter because Trump is such a strong leader. They are owned and operated by billionaires for the sole benefit of billionaires right now.

    Trump’s efforts will all fail, just as his attempt to browbeat China has become a laughing stock. Just as his attempt to force DPRK into doing his will in Korea is failing. He’s incompetent, totally unable to do anything, and the FBI and DOJ are not!

  153. 153.

    germy

    Wow how badly do White people want to call me the N word? Setting fire to the entire American experiment and concepts of liberty and justice so you can call me the N word?
    — Sir Baba Adeptus Oracle to This America (@brill_inst) May 21, 2018

  156. 156.

    Mary G

    A mood improver:

    West Virginia coal baron and ex-prisoner Don Blankenship has announced that he plans to launch a long-shot third-party Senate bid, possibly hurting the GOP’s chances to defeat Democrat Joe Manchin. https://t.co/C4dlpxlI7e— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) May 21, 2018

    He’s going to run as the candidate for the Leopards Eating Faces Party.

  157. 157.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Stephanie Ruhle has a panel of a former DOJ prosecutor and an apparently sober Sam Nurnberg, who is spinning like a top for the MAGAts about spies and a political investigation. Taking her for what she is, a Wall St/leafy suburb Republican, I think Ruhle does a decent job, but she and her producers should be ashamed of themselves for giving this tool unchallenged airtime

  158. 158.

    Peale

    @rikyrah: LOL. Of course he is going to be sticking up for Manafort. They are in the same business and if a political operative can’t sell his services overseas to the highest bidding autocrat and come home and pretend he’s still and upstanding citizen, what’s a political adviser to do?

    Also, too, I was thinking of him this morning and others like him who went on that “We need a third way! Obama should resign for the good of the country. Obama shouldn’t run again for the good of the country.” Brigade that started after the mid terms. Where are they now? Telling Democratic voters to shut up and stay home is where they are will be, I know. Good to know Penn has an early start on it.

  159. 159.

    tobie

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sam Nunberg was on the inter tubes yesterday after Joy and the host let him go on for three minutes unchecked about how the worst crime in history is that the Obama DOJ spied on the Trump campaign. The host (a woman named something Witt) did not push back once. It was infuriating.

  160. 160.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Corner Stone:
    Someplace, over the weekend, I saw a photo of Trump, alone outside the WH, from a distance, in silhouette. His head, as usual, was bent forward, but the most striking thing was the shape of his suit jacket. It jutted out squarely both before and behind, and looked exactly like one of those huge maternity smocks pregnant women used to wear in the 1950s.

  162. 162.

    Corner Stone

    @tobie:

    The host (a woman named something Witt) did not push back once. It was infuriating.

    I think you mean Alex Twit (it’s actually Witt). She has to be one of the blankest of whitespaces MSNBC ever has on their air.

  163. 163.

    Steve in the ATL

    @germy: yes, the FBI warned trump about the Russian “interference”, not realizing that it was actually collusion.

  164. 164.

    Corner Stone

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Stephanie Ruhle has a panel of a former DOJ prosecutor and an apparently sober Sam Nurnberg, who is spinning like a top

    I’m having a difficult time concentrating for..um..some reason.

  165. 165.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @tobie: The host (a woman named something Witt)

    She is maybe the dumbest anchor on the network. Her specialty is scrunching up her face with Concern and asking, “Doesn’t the President have a point….?”

  166. 166.

    Corner Stone

    @SiubhanDuinne: When it all goes down we need to find the person(s) who sold those expensive ass cheap looking suits to Trump. And then throw them into the deepest, darkest hole possible. For crimes against humanity.

  169. 169.

    J R in WV

    We need to impeach Gorsuch for having been part of an illegal and immoral appointment process, also too. Get a real judicial person in there. All it takes is a couple of serious elections.

  170. 170.

    Elizabelle

    @J R in WV: Agreed.

    I would like to hear that people are throwing food at Gorsuch, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan in restaurants; maybe even Saint Justice John Roberts. That might get the plutocrat-owned MSM to notice.

    Gotta get Gorsuch gone, when it’s possible. That is a stolen Supreme Court seat, and he cannot be allowed to remain.

  172. 172.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    “As for Our Revolution’s record in elections, Weaver said, “They’re trying to focus on getting the right shade of blue — they’re not always focused on the transactional approach of ‘electability.’”

    They aren’t focused on getting people elected, in elections.

    Can’t decide whether this is delusional or stupid. OK, both.

  173. 173.

    Ruckus

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
    drumpf is far less than just old. drumpf is a sick, sick example of the worst of humanity. And many of us are old. Some of us are older than dirt. But we manage to do more in one month than dipshit can properly do in years. Hell most of us here could do a far better job as president and there’s only one person on this blog who talks about running. On that note there have been three presidents this century. I could do a better job than two of them put together, and I’d bet you know which two I mean. And of course that could be said about most of the commenters on this blog. It is a disgrace where our politics have taken us. I hope the kids do save us, because they have to live with the shit we’ve left them. Maybe they can clean it up and get a country back because right now it’s a very, very bad Godfather movie remake.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:
    I’m sure you well know that some don’t play and work well with others. Some don’t play and work well with anyone. (anyone spring to mind?) They have a need to be on a pedestal. And what that usually ends up showing is that they don’t deserve to be up on that pedestal at all. We all like to be well regarded for something, we after all do all have egos. But many realize that they are not the center of attention, that in fact there really is no center of attention, that we are all part of the bigger picture. One of the things that makes President Obama so good is that he sees that, he works like that, he lives like that. We appreciate him for that. And that’s really the thing that pisses off drumpf, not only was his predecessor a far, far, better man and president, he did all of that while being black. drumpf puts himself upon a pedestal because no one else ever would. But he’s such a moron he keeps falling off, without the help of anyone.
    I understand that you have a better take on the legal system than for sure I do but I see this latest thing as propping up drumpf, so that he doesn’t do something that might derail the whole thing. Because we have really, very little safeguards in our political system. People seem to think that the president is above the law. He isn’t at all, he just has some powers that the rest of us don’t. But if he breaks the law there is no reason he can not be tried and convicted. Yes impeachment is the only way to remove him but we have to get to the point that people stop thinking of the office as absolute and above the law of the land. He is our elected representative, like it or not. He is not the king nor the dictator, nor god, even if he stole the office.

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