Experts estimate a 35% chance of a U.S. civil war over the next ten to fifteen years. What do historians think? https://t.co/3UEjOnZfGv
— The New Yorker (@NewYorker) May 27, 2018
High-dollar chew toy has opinions…
I am struggling to imagine what sort of army could be fielded by the "twee cosmopolitan elite" side of America's culture war. https://t.co/qPFz4oYbB9
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) May 27, 2018
Yes however will we outmatch people whose idea for stopping school shooters is training first graders to zerg rush the incels https://t.co/w9yB00joRM
— zeddy (@Zeddary) May 27, 2018
Her ‘conservative’ playmates rush in to assist…
I’m gonna put my money on the side of folks with a lot of guns ?♀️
— Bethany S. Mandel (@bethanyshondark) May 27, 2018
I agree! Which is why we're not having a civil war. If red states decide to secede (not one state, but a block too big to put down the rebellion in a few days), blue states are going to count the potential casualties and say, "Erm, maybe better just let them go".
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) May 27, 2018
Fair enough. However, it is hard to build a really effective army out of people who think they're going to live forever if they can just find the right combination of dietary supplements.
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) May 27, 2018
(Bruenig, incidentally, is a professional “Christian”.)
On a serious note: as we have discovered in Afghanistan, you can't control territory unless you're willing to put an overwhelming number of boots on the ground. Air power never lived up to its pre-WWII hopes as a substitute for infantry deaths.
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) May 27, 2018
Just a normal and healthy conversation between two WashPo columnists fantasizing about ways citizens can effectively kill each other.
— Arthur Klein (@Arthur_Klein1) May 27, 2018
Any who, hope the Red State Army has fun keeping comms & logistics up when that spigot of urban and blue state federal tax revenue gets shut off.
Literally the only way McArdle's neo-confederate dream state would stay afloat is socialism.
— zeddy (@Zeddary) May 27, 2018
Baud
I agree with Klein. This topic is a mockery to the situation we’re facing.
Yarrow
Christ, what assholes.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Yarrow: You saved me the trouble of thinking up an adequate comment.
JPL
One of the reasons that Trump won was because he was capable of controlling the news. The democratic message was drowned out, and guess what, it is happening again.
Baud
@JPL: That’s not a power exclusive to Trump.
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
Tick Toc Motherfuckers.
Needed to be said.
Mr. Prosser
These festering abcesses are poisoning us.
Bill
I’m planning to stay at home and let the morons in tactical gear shoot it out with each other in the streets.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Yes, this is a shocking dialogue.
Major Major Major Major
call me crazy but my money would be on the states with transportation and communications infrastructure
zhena gogolia
And obligatory, “There isn’t a cannon factory in the entire South!”
Jager
I’ve always wondered if anyone on his staff mentions after trump pisses and moans about California, “Ahem Mr. President, you’re screwing with the 5th largest economy in world, your pal Vlad’s country doesn’t make the top ten and most of the Russian economy is from extraction industries, not exactly the wave of the future.” Naw, wouldn’t happen, nobody on his staff would have bothered to look it up or where to look..that and when this imaginary war starts, the red state lose the entire west coast and all of the northeast instantly. They lose the big banks, the most important seaports and of course, most of the brainpower. And the blue state would have Canada and Mexico on our side.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Maybe I’m just in a foul mood, but I hope this threard doesn’t debate the topic like it’s a game of Risk.
Baud
@Jager: Why does the NYT think Franklin Graham is going to turn California red?
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: alas, that is what the OP invites.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Just shut off their access to porn and they’ll surrender.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
I have to give a link and let Clark say it.
Roger Moore
ISTR the Confederates were sure they’d have no trouble overcoming those effete Northerners. It didn’t work out so well for them.
Mary G
I tweeted to her that our side would be like the Vietnamese – we might not have all the guns, but we are smart and have most of the scientists. I will be happy to serve as cannon fodder if needed.
zhena gogolia
@Roger Moore:
See my link in #17!
Tenar Arha
This whole topic makes me want to kick the jerks who thought it up, hard. Then it makes me want to force read these historical illiterate columnists a whole bunch of books Clockwork Orange style. Then throw in a few documentaries on post-WWII displaced persons & post-partition Inda. Grrr…
Sherparick
@JPL: I note that McArdle in the Glee of her right-wing fantasy forgot that population of the South is about 25% Black & 15% Hispanic. And the majority of the White population is old & arthritic. It did not work out to well for Red Nation last time.
Jager
@Baud: Who the hell knows where that came from? And why?
MattF
@Baud: I’m still debating with myself whether to read that article. Just seems… weird. Are there really a lot of evangelicals and mega-churches in CA? Is Franklin Graham famous outside where ever it is he’s famous, where ever that is?
Ruckus
@Jager:
Yes. Anything approaching logic or cognitive thought will never enter their tiny little minds. And they have no view of the future, the only view is backwards, to a time which didn’t actually exist and in which the most prosperous man in town was the undertaker.
I like that the world bank says that Russia has a population of 144.3 million as of 2016 and CA has a population of 40+ million, Russia is the 12th or 13th economy and CA is 5th or 6th. California’s is still almost twice as big as Russia’s. So we are also about 7 times more productive than Russia. And the racist wealth party in this country is aligned, not with the wealthier, more productive STATE, but with the less diverse, less free, enemy COUNTRY.
Says a lot about that racist wealth party doesn’t it.
Jager
@Baud: The article headline says “California has a vast pool of evangelical voters”
John Revolta
Why do I keep thinking of those bumper stickers that say “My kid can beat up your honor student”?
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
I know. I just feel like we’re playing their game.
HeleninEire
Oh holy hell. Those people are nuts. Imma go back to my book. Stephen King’s new one, “The Outsider.” Just started it tonight. Liking it a lot.
Jager
@Sherparick: The Black and Hispanic population in the south will make one hell of guerrilla army won’t it?
LosGatosCA
Once you factor in reinstituting slavery their ideas are perfectly logical in their usual sick, twisted, evil, criminally minded way.
Ruckus
@MattF:
There are some evangelicals in CA, and a couple of mega grifting operations. I believe the majority here don’t give a fuck about them. Of course scientology has had a major presence for over 50 yrs here in the land of fruits and nuts. Does that count?
Baud
@Jager: I just don’t trust that paper when it comes to U.S. politics.
Timurid
All the Confederate comparisons are missing the point. Their objective in this conflict (whether or not it becomes violent) is not to leave us, but to rule us.
JPL
@Sherparick: I’m shocked that she is as racist as the asshole in chief.
Ruckus
@Baud:
A good policy. Has been for decades and will remain for probably quite some time.
JR
@Baud: also, what fucking experts. What have hey succesfully predicted? Let’s start with something easy — election results.
MagdaInBlack
Why do I suspect theres some govermental assessment of this very situation, and its a whole lot more well thought out than these pinheads and their drivel.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
There are a bunch of evangelical mega churches in CA. Of course there are lots of other kinds of churches, too; it’s a big state. I’ve seen ads for Franklin Graham’s upcoming visit at churches near where I live. That said, it’s not obvious to me how much difference it will make. The Republicans are trying to max-out their vote from their existing voting base, rather than trying to win over anyone who wasn’t already convinced.
John Revolta
Erm, that’s not what the fella that you agree with said though
Jager
Be fun though when the Blue USA appropriates all of the trump organization’s property outside of Red USA and deports Don Jr , and their families to Mar-a-Lago land, but then again Florida may want to be part of Blue USA, tourist $$$, you know.
Cheryl Rofer
I simply don’t see how a civil war takes place in the US. Although there is a swath of Trumpist states up the middle of the country, they are thinly populated and have little in the way of military might beyond lots of guns. This is a fantasy of the NRA-obsessed. I hate that the NYT feeds that fantasy.
Here are some wise words from more of an expert than I am.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: we can talk about how my cat has a cold instead. I made an appointment with the vet for tomorrow. He needs a routine checkup anyway.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
Because anyone paid to do a logical and factual assessment of the situation will always produce a far more well thought and factual product out than the drivel that the pinheads drool out.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: poor baby.
Chyron HR
YOU EAT PINK SALT YOU DERANGED NAZI TWUNT
Barbara
It’s too soon to joke about the next Civil War when the last one hasn’t really ended. One thing is obvious, McArdle thinks everything is a game and is sure of only one thing, she plans to be on the winning side.
Yarrow
These people should not be discussing such topics. It shows their hollowness.
MagdaInBlack
@Ruckus:
They just make me so tired.
Jager
As Jerry Jeff Walker sang, “Up Against the Wall Red Neck Mother”
https://youtu.be/YcBOcwgb4OA
Brachiator
@Jager:
RE: The article headline says “California has a vast pool of evangelical voters”
OK. Definitely not worth reading the article. Bunch of nonsense.
Ruckus
@Cheryl Rofer:
The only way it’s possible is that drumpf might join the wrong side and convince enough of the military to join him. Of course that following part is rather unlikely, as that would be an obvious unconstitutional order and even if a portion of the military mutinied I think it would not be near enough.
I also think this is a possible Vlad desire, to see us have a civil war with all that military blowing up shit, thereby proving that democracy doesn’t work and that he should be the leader in charge of the entire planet. This may have been a dream/nightmare some time in the past.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Major Major Major Major: I didn’t know cats could get colds. Is it like a human cold?
HeleninEire
@Chyron HR: That was beautiful. Thank you.
MagdaInBlack
@Chyron HR:
THANK YOU!!
rikyrah
@MattF:
The churches are there and Democrats control everything.
MagdaInBlack
@Jager:
And I still know all the words ?
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
That is part of their point. They want you to give up. They win if enough give up. In the long run they can’t win in any real way, their numbers don’t add up. That’s why they have to do it illegally, and with propaganda because actual truth eludes them. OK that’s not true, they despise actual truth. It’s why they avoid it at all costs, because actual truth blows the crap out of every argument they have.
Kay
IMO, “red state vs blue state” is dumb. Trump is from NYC as are half the people he hires. I don’t know where Kelly is from but judging by his speech it isn’t Alabama. Michigan has had a anti-government “militia” for my whole adult life- they go out in the woods and run around and play soldier and they’re only active when a Democrat is President.
That people who write professionally and are paid to comment on US politics and social issues don’t know this is embarrassing. For them.
Which side will Idaho be on? Arizona? Does Atlanta join the union side? It’s complicated.
Cheryl Rofer
@Ruckus: I worry a little about the military. We have structured things so that many of the military sympathize with the right and Trump. But that’s not entirely true. Here’s a leader who I know personally, and there is no way she would go against her vows. I can’t tell you how proud I am of her. I think that going with a separatist movement would be against most of the military’s inclinations, even those on the right.
Yeah, Putin worries about his country splitting apart, and he has more to worry about in that department than we do. Not so much a military action as just, for only one example, too many Chinese moving into Siberia. I keep wanting to do a post on this, but the Orange One’s tantrums too often take center stage.
Jager
@MagdaInBlack: Youtube has Ray Wylie Hubbard telling the story of why he wrote it…something about walking into a red neck bar with long hair, a tie dyed shirt, boots and a cowboy hat with a feather in the band….
M4
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): kind of? He’s sneezing and has eye boogers.
p.a.
Reb soldiers better not drop their
clipsmagazines: they’ll need traction just for the effort of attempting to pick them up.EZSmirkzz
Well kiddos, the arm chair generals are fighting the last civil war, which is not too surprising given the caliber of political thinking that our fair nation has fallen to under our astute punditry . Should things devolve to such an extreme as they are publicly hallucinating upon, then the logical outcome of a nuclear super powered republic is a military dictatorship to restore order, both at home and among the international order that is being disrupted with the same dubious, vacillating thinking, when the only positive outcome of which would be to silence the McArdles of bloviasphere, albeit along with all the rest of us. Perhaps this is the power behind the throne’s intent.
I would suggest to Megan, as well as to the rest of my fellow citizens, to quit reading any article that is headlined with a question mark, or troll’s smile, so as to avoid falling into contrived tempests in the publication’s tin tea pot. As Constantine remarked on Arius’s and Athanasius’s dispute, they are questions that shouldn’t be asked, and having been asked, are questions that should not be answered. Do yourself a favor. There are enough troubles in each day for the day without involving yourselves in contrivances of those who have become wise in their own eyes.
Brachiator
@Cheryl Rofer:
This guy is right on the money. But I might have one question.
What happens when a rich democracy dies, or becomes a populist tyranny led by an authoritarian blowhard?
But her emails!!
One capable of marching more than 100 yards without the aid of a Rascal or golf cart if provided a sufficient supply of organic soy milk and wheatgrass juice?
MagdaInBlack
@Jager:
…not unlike the bars of my…….youth.. ?
Jager
@p.a.: A guy I worked with, a Ranger vet, and his son were backpacking in the Sangre de Christos in Colorado and hiked through a militia “camp” he buttonholed one of the camo clad fat boys carrying an AR 15 and told him, “you assholes need to tighten up your perimeter security” then he and his son hike off into the hills.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
a) this is urban verses rural. There are no clear lines
b) what the hell would a civil war be about?
c) Isn’t McBruble one of the effete elites?
Frankensteinbeck
@JPL:
This has been the case at least since 9/11. Probably much longer, but I wasn’t paying attention. It’s an assumed part of the playing field, not anything Trump changed. Like everything with Trump, he just made the rot visible.
Sister Golden Bear
@Timurid: I, for one, welcome our would-be Bubba overlords to cross the Mohave Desert and scale the Sierra Nevada in their Hoverounds when they try to conquer California.
Without their porn or modern electronics.
MagdaInBlack
@But her emails!!:
I’m recalling what was “fielded” at the wildlife refuge cluster…..didn’t they run out of French Vanilla Coffee Mate?
Frankensteinbeck
@Cheryl Rofer:
I would love to hear about Russia’s internal issues. They would be very useful in understanding our situation, as well as interesting for their own sake.
Kay
Who gets Jared Kushner? Does he go with the state of origin or his ideological home?
I certainly don’t want him. These recruitment drives are going to have to be very specific. A lot of wealthy urban conservatives better learn to love the common folk of the heartland they’ve been ridiculously romanticizing for a 100 years. That’s where they’ll all need to move.
Timurid
@Sister Golden Bear:
We wouldn’t be in our current predicament if the other side didn’t already have many more assets in its order of battle than Meal Team Six.
Cheryl Rofer
@Brachiator:
That hasn’t happened yet, and we need to make sure it doesn’t.
The Midnight Lurker
If our side wins, can I be DMV czar? I wanna wear a sash!
Cheryl Rofer
@Frankensteinbeck: One place to look is Paul Goble’s blog. Paul was in the State Department and worked with the Baltic States, particularly Estonia, when the Soviet Union was breaking up. He speaks Russian and Estonian and scours the news, mostly Russian, for his blog posts. I think he’s a little too optimistic about separatism in Russia, but he gives a great view of the wide variety of peoples and languages that are a part of Russia and their current issues.
If I wrote a post, I would use a lot of his material, but I would do some other checking as well, because of my reservations.
El Caganer
Can’t see a civil war on the horizon, though I can imagine an increase in domestic terror attacks by unhinged sovereign citizens high on opioids and Trump rhetoric.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Kay: I imagine Ivanka living in Iowa. And then I laugh and I laugh.
Ruckus
@Cheryl Rofer:
I think I told this story before, but in the navy, on a medium sized warship and the food wasn’t very good. We’d been out to sea for a number of weeks so we were short on some supplies, and one evening meal the cooks cut every corner they could. I was about 20th in line and I got one grilled cheese sandwich for dinner. We were supposed to have an actual meal with grilled ham and cheese as the main course. When asked about the food the cooks responded with a hardy “Fuck You.” Now bad food is bad but not enough food is even worse. As I sat down I heard a lot of talk of mutiny, of storming the gun locker and taking over the ship. Some of this talk came from lifers, which surprised me. One lifer took his tray to the wardroom and dropped it in front of the capt and said, “This is my dinner, this is all of it what the fuck are you going to do about it?” I heard this part from two independent sources, both trusted, both in the room. No mention was made of the mutiny talk. The capt handled it as best as possible, he apologized for the meal and made the cooks stay and feed everyone all the grilled cheese they wanted.
The point of the story is that a lot of people could have been swayed to do something very wrong, given the situation and it didn’t take much to gain support. A very big lesson that a lot of people will do anything in support of their grievances, even something as stupid as mutiny over a crappy meal.
randy khan
The great flaw in McArdle’s logic is that there is already an army (not to mention an air force). The presumption that they would take up arms against the government is not well founded.
And lest anyone forget, one of the problems the last time around was that the Confederacy had no money. It’s hard to see how a new Confederacy would do any better; indeed, in the modern world economy, I’d guess that it would be hard even to establish an exchange rate for the rebels’ currency.
Ked
Do you know who has been talking up an internal USA civil war for the last decade or two?
Russian think tank types.
Yeah. I think we know where this shit is coming from. Shame on McMegan for engaging it.
Shalimar
WTF? Does McCardle actually read any of the bullshit posted in her name? Bitch with a Thermomix should not be casually making fun of other people’s effete dietary eccentricities. She is far more of a coastal elitist than anyone who posts here.
Tazj
Yes, We have way more guns! Can you imagine how we’ll demolish those wimpy liberals in the blue states? That’ll teach them!
These people are gross, fantasizing about a civil war.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I’m not sure that’s ever happened so who the hell knows.
I do think that counting on a bunch of unorganized sloths who will probably shoot more of themselves than anyone else to lead your resistance/defense is probably a stupid idea. So I’m thinking that the red state militia will most likely fail. Once again.
NotMax
Entire concept is anti-democratic as can be and a frittering away of cogitation. Martial underwear gnomes.
different-church-lady
Massachusetts National Guard has fighter jets, so good luck with that.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@El Caganer:
What seriously see is a bunch of mass suicides in the near future between Turmp, the GOP pols who will out Trump- Trump in this next election and the Right Wing News Media disaster porn.
cain
My money will be on a lot of high tech people who have rigged drones and decided to let them loose. Also, I suspect that a lot of these people are on meth, on disability, or some other problem that prevents them from actually doing anything useful.
Plus, we will let them come to us and not give them advantage of home ground.. we’ll see how well they do urban warfare.
A Ghost to Most
Not all liberals are “twee cosmopolitan elites”.
MomSense
NotMax thanks for the Six Dance Lessons in Six Weeks. It was just the right thing for me today.
The Netflix series Ugly Delicious is a real treat.
JR
@Chyron HR: I mean seriously, McCardle wouldn’t even be given the honor of a guillotine.
JR
@Yarrow: @Enhanced Voting Techniques: urban versus rural would be something like the mid-late French Revolution — keep in mind that France was in a state where almost all of a persons income went to food, if they could afford that. Closer to a third world country than any modern western country.
matt
I’d love to exile McMegan to the BamaTuckey Free State.
lynn
Succession is nothing more than a wingnut talking point. Within hours of a red state succession they will loose ability to fly anyone or thing in or out of the state and all tech will go dark. Millions of cell phones that do not work and no way to complain to anyone. By day 2 the militias will storm the state capitol.
karlb
@Timurid: Thank you for saying this. I read some of that thread and was shocked that nobody understood that the right wing today wants to be the Taliban, not the Confederacy.
Roger Moore
@randy khan:
The thing I’m worried about is what happens if Trump gets pissed off at state governments refusing to go along with his program and tries to use the military to enforce it. We know he wants to conscript local law enforcement to help enforce immigration law and is very angry about “sanctuary” provisions that prevent them from volunteering help. What happens if he decides to use the military to arrest local politicians, or even a state governor, who are enforcing those provisions. I know it’s not an especially likely scenario, but it’s one that could result in a really nasty outcome, either a fight between the army and the national guard or between parts of the army willing to obey his orders and those who refuse because they’re illegal.
Sister Golden Bear
@A Ghost to Most: Well there are certain sections of New York/DC/Los Angeles/San Francisco, Major Bubba, that I wouldn’t advise you to try to invade.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
I think they also vastly over estimate their own numbers, thinking that everyone who voted republican will join them in armed rebellion, including the entire military. It didn’t happen last time and I don’t see it happening now. Very messy sure, but a rapid takeover and revolt lead by drumpf? Who can’t organize a golf trip to his own course very well? I’m sure there are others in the highest ranks of the military, who are assholes like Kelly but wholesale takeover of the military is unlikely. First a lot of them are deployed elsewhere and would have to return here to do much of anything.
I know someone in a NG unit who deployed yesterday, he’s on his way to the middle east. So even NG units are being used because we just don’t have enough actual army/marines to do the job And the navy is woefully understaffed and over deployed, which is one reason for those three DDG accidents.
Now that might just lead to a lot of dissatisfied military but I’d bet that the split between right and left in the military is about the same as in civilian life and notice that most of them are much younger than the average age of the population as a whole, which is in the late 30s. Over 27% of the population is under 21. That bodes well for the military not to be all red state types.
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
They get respiratory things. They sneeze a lot.
zhena gogolia
@M4:
Also could be allergies.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@matt: I suspect the Piggly-Wiggly doesn’t sell pink salt
@zhena gogolia: @M4: I hope the poor baby feels better.
SiubhanDuinne
@A Ghost to Most:
Some of
youthemus are.SiubhanDuinne
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
They do, under the house brand “Pinkly-Winkly.”
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I think that drumpf has a lot less support in places that have a lot of power than he realizes and that a lot of people would like to think. Would it get messy? I’d bet money on it. Would it go to all out civil war? I’m doubting that quite a bit. I don’t see entire army units going along, or NG either, although some states might. The AF? that’s a toughie because of all the evangelical bullshit but I still see a lot of no there as well. Would it be good for the country? Short term I’d say absolutely not. Long term, I can see both sides, that it might wake up a large enough portion to maybe finally put a stop to the continuing bullshit of rabid racism and worship of money above all else, or that it might just tear the country irreparably apart, and have dead bodies all over the place. I’m not taking odds on either side.
Barbara
@EZSmirkzz: That is sound advice indeed! Some time ago I made a conscious decision to never read any article with the words might or could in the title or where the title ended in a question mark. They are usually speculation masquerading as news with a few interviews thrown in with common folk cherry picked to showcase the author’s otherwise fact free thesis.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
Well done!
cs
Funny they’re talking about a civil war when the Right shows absolutely no appetite for violence or sacrifice. Sure, they talk tough but that’s easy. When it comes to actually taking punches or facing jail time, most of them bravely run away. It’s one of the few bright spots of the Trump years. It’s nothing like, say, Weimar Germany, where the Nazis and the other parties gleefully fought in the streets. And weren’t afraid of prison.
opiejeanne
@Baud: It’s a stupid argument. When the handful of states seceded last time, they weren’t fighting a random group of non-slavery states, they were fighting the US military. Same thing if South Carolina secedes: they’re not going to be up against California, they’re going to be up against the US armed forces.
Frankensteinbeck
@cs:
Trump is their apotheosis, One Of Them made president. An absolute chickenshit of astonishing caliber. Their youngest, fittest, most openly racist members, the actual Nazis, talked real big until they found out they were outnumbered by counterprotesters – then they ran back into the shadows like cockroaches.
rikyrah
They got their tax cuts..They don’t have to pretend anymore?
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1000880580005892096?s=20
Greg in PDX
Oregon certainly is not twee. Most liberals hike, fish hunt and own guns. And they outnumber conservatives about 2-1. Also most conservatives live in the far eastern OR desert, which is separated from the coast by a range if mountains with small roads through passes that could easily be blocked.. CA and Mexico provide TX and the midwest with nearly all their food as well,
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@cs:
Go watch the Great War Channel, the Nazis came out the German eastern army in WWI, so the base were brutalized combat vets.
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
I guess the big question to me is whether Trump would listen to the signs that his support is thinner than he thinks or if he’s push it and find out the hard way. On the one hand, Trump is terrible at listening to people tell him things he doesn’t want to hear. On the other hand, he’s a coward who has proven willing to back down when confronted with somebody genuinely committed. I suspect Mattis would be able to talk him down if he were really pushing the envelope, but we could be in real trouble if Mattis quits and is replaced by a yes man.
Elizabelle
@EZSmirkzz: I think your comment was my favorite of many a moon.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Pretty classy way to say fuckem‘.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Yes indeed. Happy weekend to us all. Listening to a very gentle rain passing through; a little distant thunder.
Gelfling 545
@Jager: Doesn’t seem to have done them much good so far.
Corner Stone
@Greg in PDX:
What?
Gelfling 545
@Chyron HR: and needs a several hundred dollar machine to make a simple bechmel. How inept can one be?
J R in WV
@SiubhanDuinne:
Others of us try hard, but are in the wrong place, cosmopolitan wise. ;-)
Gelfling 545
@Kay: “Trump is from NYC as are half the people he hires. ”
And they exhibit no inclination to live in Mississippi any time soon.
eric U.
all we need to do is rig up salt spreading trucks to spread packets of opioids and drive them through rural america. Game over.
Doug R
@Jager:
TD Waterhouse= Toronto Dominion
CIBC=Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
BMO= Bank Of Montreal
RBC=Royal Bank Of Canada
They’re EVERYWHERE.
J R in WV
And on the original post. Am I the only one who thought that was wacky beyond drug-crazed? Most of the comments were, … strange and pathetic, a little. Not the B-J comments, the ones assembled into the post. And not criticizing the poster, who collected a thread, didn’t originate the thoughts and (thought-free) reactions.
Just, weird. Who writes that? Well, now we know.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Understand that following unlawful orders is a huge no no in the military. It’s taught from day one. Or at least it was. Of course that means that people have to think about their orders and what they should and shouldn’t do. But I’d bet there are enough people who would do that to prevent wholesale dereliction of duty. That means it might get messy but I doubt it would get totally out of hand. Remember those orders would have to come down the chain of command and there are a lot of steps along the way from the WH to live ammunition. It’s not just on Mattis or his level, it’s every level along the way and includes those guys/gals on the bottom level. In my story above there were people at a couple of levels willing to pull a mutiny, there were more, like me that weren’t. I was as pissed about the food as anyone, I was’t willing to risk everything for one meal. As I said I wasn’t alone. None of us had to do anything one way or another, command handled it immediately. That lifer who risked a lot going to the captain, he wasn’t willing to commit a far, far larger error to solve a smaller one. And he wasn’t a particularly great guy, just a smart one. That’s how it’s supposed to work and it did. I’d expect that to happen today. Look at the generals that have disgraced their service, like Kelly. When they were in the active military they didn’t act like that. An observant person like Adam could not see who they really are, they did the job as they had been trained. Now that he has a different job Kelly gets to be the asshole he always wanted to be. Many more are like that than might be imagined. They aren’t good or great humans but they can be good military. I served under a captain for about 5 or 6 weeks who was captain of that ship because he was an ass who had pissed off a much higher command by being that ass. That meant no promotion, and therefore the end of his career. Higher command wouldn’t fire him but they did and would make it obvious that he was going no where, that he would never get another promotion and he’d spend all his time at shitty commands until he wised up or left on his own. And that jackass wasn’t going to wise up. But he still did his job. Sort of. At one point I was told that an Admiral called him at 6am (9am at the Pentagon) to chew him out because he didn’t want to do something he’d been ordered to do and hadn’t. And the follow up order was carried out exactly.
Steve on St. Simons Island
@Kay: every metro area joins the union side. Even management-side labor lawyers like me join the union side!
Suzanne
Just tell me where I need to move to be on the side of light and I’m outta here. My company will move me to California in no time. I can be. In Palm Springs in three hours.
The Moar You Know
@Cheryl Rofer: Saw a great, odd documentary on Amazon about this. That…that is going to be a staggering blow for the Russian psyche when it happens. And the thing is, it kind of already has. When your citizens are outnumbered 8 to 1 by immigrants, and the immigrants are building kickass infrastructure on your land that you couldn’t, wouldn’t, and didn’t build for them before the immigrants all showed up, it’s not your territory anymore. You lost it and you deserved to.
Suzanne
@Chyron HR:
Making bechamel in a Thermomix is something Real Murikans do, doncha know.
OTOH, I love that knowing when to use “YOUR” and “YOU’RE” brands me as a coastal cosmopolitan.
Suzanne
@Tazj:
These people have such a sense of being shit on. It is amazing to me. I thought they all felt exceptional and ruggedly individual, but they honestly think that liberals in big cities are superior to them and their fucking collective inferiority complex is going to kill us all.
Why can’t I just hate their culture in peace? They hate my culture, and I don’t give a shit.
Jacel
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I looked at Piggly Wiggly’s web site. You can’t order food through it, but at least one recipe posted by the store included Pink Himalayan Salt.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
They know how shitty they are as human beings. They don’t like people who aren’t as shitty as they are. So they get even shittier. They must think that there needs to be a certain percentage of shitty people or at least a certain amount of shit and we aren’t doing our part so they are attempting to make up for it.
The Moar You Know
@Tazj: They do, but not by much. Far fewer people own guns nowadays. The reason that the number of guns in America has increased is because a FAR smaller group of people own them, but the ones who do tend to own a lot of them.
No reason to fear these people.
The wanking off to the notion of Americans slaughtering each other is obscene, but personally I find the deliberate pandering to the worst instincts of people who made some really bad voting choices to be something even worse.
Suzanne
@Ruckus: I really don’t get it. Like, why do these people long for our approval so much? I don’t like guns, or megachurches, or pickup trucks, or camping, or rural areas. I like going to school, making art, traveling, reading, going to museums, playing with my dog, skincare, and being a foodie. But, like……I am not stopping anybody from doing whatever they want. I think my way of life is “superior”, in that my friends and I enjoy it more. But what does my opinion matter? If they don’t want to live in cities, and they want to hunt and fish and go to church, I really do not give a fuck. But they are so fuckin’ thirsty for our approval, and they hate us sooooo bad because they don’t have it.
Gemina13
@Greg in PDX: Hell, a lot of liberals in Western WA love to hunt, fish, shoot and hike. I’ve seen more effete RWNJs living in Scottsdale, AZ, who’d scream bloody murder if they had to go without their central air and pimped-out Porsche Cayennes.
Suzanne
@Gemina13:
“What do you mean, you’re out of cupcakes?!”
My former MIL lives in Scottsdale. LMAO.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Well it doesn’t matter if they are inferior or not, they see their way of life being eroded. And really it is. Because there are more of us, lots more of us. I wrote on BJ this evening that humans now number over 7 billion on this rock. 120 yrs ago there were about 2 billion of us. We take up a lot more space, we burn a lot more fuel, we create a lot more pollution. need a lot more food…… And the big cities are far more crowed than the rural areas, NYC had over 8 million, LA county has over 10 million. LA county has more population than 41 individual states and has a GDP larger than the GDPs of Belgium, Saudi Arabia, Norway and Taiwan. Some people think that someone is getting screwed and they think it’s them. And they are but whose idea was that? Theirs. They continue to endorse policies that fuck them and get mad at us for allowing them to act like spoiled fucking brats. They don’t really want to go back 200 yrs, they want us to be on equal footing with them. I’m not going to lower my self to their level. Remember they think zero sum. That means that all those cities that have the better internet access, the better restaurants, the better schools, the jobs, the schools got those by taking them from the rural areas. They refuse to see that places like SC which gets something like $4 for every $1 they pay in federal tax. They don’t like that a lot of their kids just leave rather than live in a shit hole. They want space because they don’t like people and they think that everyone is like them.
As EFG says, Fuckem.
schrodingers_cat
Nothing describes cosmopolitan elite than Megan. Okay at 6ft or so she is not twee.
Citizen Alan
@Ruckus:
As I’ve said elsewhere, this is why they’re anti-choice. They know they’re shitty people and that the world would be better off if they’d been killed in the womb, and so the thought of easy access to abortion causes existential terror.
Sm*t Cl*de
Part of me wants to remind this muppet that dietary supplements are hardly a Blue-State phenomenon — are there many supplement scammers who aren’t based in Utah, epicentre of MLM affinity fraud?
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PS Opioids are a *kind* of dietary supplement!