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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Open Thread: Would That We Could Be So Lucky

Open Thread: Would That We Could Be So Lucky

by Anne Laurie|  May 30, 201810:44 pm| 126 Comments

This post is in: Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republicans in Disarray!, Clown car, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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It's time to think about a future that even Donald Trump manages to envision every day.https://t.co/GtMSf6YrZ5

— muscular baby (@Mobute) May 30, 2018


 
Nagah haapn, as a Repub tool once said… but here’s Jeb Lund with some red meat for the cheap seats:

Donald Trump is afraid of going to prison. Ordinarily that might seem like a silly statement: Trump is probably the most corrupt president in American history, and some of his closest bag men open the door each morning to see if the sky looks like indictments. But this is America, where the man who drafted memos arguing that torture is legal teaches law at U.C. Berkeley, and Henry “Two Genocides” Kissinger advised the Bush administration but summered with the Clintons.

And yet this might be the second time Donald Trump has gotten something right…

Trump should be and is afraid. He has no real friends in Washington that didn’t ride in on his coattails (and possibly commit a crime to do so). He has no party, save a GOP that let him loose like a bull in a china shop so they could sneak in the back and rob the safe. He has been a Democrat and he has been a Republican and he has alienated the ruling castes of both. He is not one of them, and no part of Trumpworld, post-tax-cuts, is essential to the preservation of their class’ domination of politics.

Meanwhile, for the first time in a long time, both parties have unambiguous incentives to make a show of strident anti-corruption. The Democrats — having dropped the ball on the opportunity to seek restorative justice for any of the plunder of the subprime mortgage market or even to do something as simple as sending Dick Cheney or the other architects of the Bush-era torture policy to The Hague — have a historically unsympathetic antagonist. And Republicans no longer really have the Clinton campaign to point to (though Trump tries) and need to maintain the illusion to their values-voter base that Trump is different from them (other than in his abject tastelessness)…

The moment Trump looks like he’s finished with some part of his fan base, his intraparty constituency plummets to zero. The Democrats will finally have a gimme with which to practice the arcane art of exercising state power to enforce the morals of a community. At the same time, the rump of Republicans who survive 2018 and those seeking to unseat Democrats in borderline seats in 2020 will have good reason to depict Trump as a uniquely toxic aberration that must be burned away to cleanse the rest of the party. There is no greater non-verbal distinction between the GOP and Trump than incarcerating him…

… It is not silly to demand that we realize a dream so unlikely that it clearly daily haunts the dumbest chief executive in American history: After a long list of extraordinarily deserving, very very beautiful, very very talented runners-up — from Jefferson Davis, to Warren Harding, to Richard Nixon, to Ronald Reagan, to George W. Bush — Donald Trump can become the first president from the United States to die in prison…

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Reader Interactions

126Comments

  1. 1.

    lahke

    May 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    Nah, someone would use it as an excuse to jail Hillary.

  2. 2.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    The Democrats — having dropped the ball on the opportunity to seek restorative justice for any of the plunder of the subprime mortgage market or even to do something as simple as sending Dick Cheney or the other architects of the Bush-era torture policy to The Hague — have a historically unsympathetic antagonist.

    How does this happen absent a shooting war?

  3. 3.

    Mary G

    May 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    I hope Jeb’s right, but it’ll be just like Greitens – resign in exchange for dropping charges.

  4. 4.

    trollhattan

    May 30, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    Presuming for a second that Donny can separate himself from his self-built cocoon to have a moment of clarity, he may indeed realize he has more legal exposure than any other time in his life, and not just “I never settle but here’s several million to make those Trump University suits go away” but actual “You’re convicted of multiple federal felonies and here’s the prison you’re headed to” exposure.

    Maybe he cuts his losses and turns the wheel over to Mother’s hubby? Weirder things have happened.

  5. 5.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    May 30, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    I don’t know. I don’t think we can let this slide. Not this time. We need to make it as clear as glass to these shitstains that if they try this again, they’re going to rot in jail like President Tapeworm and his deadbeat kids. As the guy says, we have the advantage this time of a truly loathsome foe here. We need to see this through. People just cannot weasel out of having to answer for their crimes because they’re too influential. Not this time. Not this fucking time.

  6. 6.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 30, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    John Dean has the key to resisting and defeating Trump.

    Big difference between Trump and Obama’s presidencies is the distinction between FEAR and HOPE. Trump sells fear. Obama provided hope. Trump is trashing Obama’s legacy to foster fear, grow his frightened constituency. Trump can’t GOVERN the hopeful. But he can RULE the fearful.

    — John Dean (@JohnWDean) May 30, 2018

  7. 7.

    Mandalay

    May 30, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    In this video Nikolas Cruz casually announces his intention to kill a bunch of people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. He almost seems indifferent about what he is going to do. It’s pretty clear that he realizes his life is over and he just doesn’t care.

  8. 8.

    Calouste

    May 30, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’d like to see Jeb Lund explain how simple it is to ship the immediate preceding Vice President to a court the US doesn’t recognize. Or just shut the fuck up, whichever is more within his capabilities.

  9. 9.

    jackmac

    May 30, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    This just in … The Illinois General Assembly has passed the Equal Rights Amendment, 36 years after the deadline.

  10. 10.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    @Calouste: That too.

  11. 11.

    BruceFromOhio

    May 30, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    Donald Trump can become the first president from the United States to die in prison…

    This pr0n is very distracting, and I thought this was a family-oriented PG-13 site.

  12. 12.

    BruceFromOhio

    May 30, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    Think it through. Who took millions from the NRA? Kind of like pre-screening your own paramilitary that is paying you.

  13. 13.

    trollhattan

    May 30, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Mandalay:
    Fvck.

    My kid had an active shooter shutdown (not a drill) in grade school and today “jokes” with her HS friends about which kid in their class is most most likely to be the next school shooter. No kid, not in America, not anywhere, should feel compelled to ponder whether their forthcoming day at school may be the last day of their life.

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    May 30, 2018 at 11:12 pm

    @Mary G: how about resign and confess in exchange for not confiscating everything under RICO?

  15. 15.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 30, 2018 at 11:13 pm

    Who is this writer, and how can they type with their head so far up their own ass? He obviously doesn’t like Republicans, but he lives in a bizarre Both Sides fantasy world where the Democrats sending Dick Cheney to the Hague would have been ‘simple’, and Republicans want to burnish their anti-corruption credentials. And look at this:

    He has been a Democrat and he has been a Republican and he has alienated the ruling castes of both. He is not one of them, and no part of Trumpworld, post-tax-cuts, is essential to the preservation of their class’ domination of politics.

    Jesus. Fucking. Christ. It is both technically true and wildly misleading in its pretending Trump isn’t Republican to the bone. He’s just the crude mouth-breather version, which is not rare in congress either.

  16. 16.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    @BruceFromOhio: What didn’t I think through?

  17. 17.

    Eric S.

    May 30, 2018 at 11:15 pm

    @jackmac:

    We ran out of gas! We got a flat tire! We didn’t have change for cab fare! We lost our tuxes at the cleaners! We locked our keys in the car! An old friend came in from out of town! Someone stole our car! There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN’T OUR FAULT, WE SWEAR TO GOD!

  18. 18.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:17 pm

    @Eric S.: How far to Chicago?

  19. 19.

    Lizzy L

    May 30, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    @jackmac: It only needs 38. One more.

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    Lund makes two fundamental failures of understanding in regard to the GOP base:
    1.

    and need to maintain the illusion to their values-voter base that Trump is different from them (other than in his abject tastelessness)

    2.

    At the same time, the rump of Republicans who survive 2018 and those seeking to unseat Democrats in borderline seats in 2020 will have good reason to depict Trump as a uniquely toxic aberration that must be burned away to cleanse the rest of the party. There is no greater non-verbal distinction between the GOP and Trump than incarcerating him…

    The party, and the movement that it is locked in a parasitic existence with, have clearly demonstrated over the past 18 months what it was trying to obscure for the past several decades. First, that there is no such thing as a value voter other than voters and the professional Christians that claim to be leading them who scream religious freedom to excuse and justify their bigotry and then use those claims to force everyone else to accept their bigotry and its toxic and noxious outcomes. Second, which follows from the first, is that the President is not a toxic aberration. Rather he is the party and the movement that sustains it out and proud.

    Other than that it’s a nice essay.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Help him, help President Green Lantern…

  22. 22.

    Eric S.

    May 30, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: 106 for Jake and Elwood. I haven’t left its confines since mothers day.

  23. 23.

    patroclus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    What exactly is “restorative justice” and how could “the Democrats” have prosecuted Cheney at the Hague or some nameless bankers for a failure of regulation of the securitization markets and a real estate market crash? Politics and policy do not equal prosecution and the law and why doesn’t Jeb Lund understand the differences? What a nonsensical diatribe!

    I may personally believe Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice and of conspiring with non-U.S. persons to illegally affect the 2016 election, but prosecuting that sort of thing requires evidence and, more importantly, has to be pursued politically, which would require control of the House of Representatives, at the least. Jeb Lund doesn’t seem to understand the political reality .

  24. 24.

    chopper

    May 30, 2018 at 11:25 pm

    The moment Trump looks like he’s finished with some part of his fan base, his intraparty constituency plummets to zero. The Democrats will finally have a gimme

    but what’s it gonna take for the GOP to quit him?

  25. 25.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 30, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I think Bruce is implying the NRA has their own army that works for Trump? I can’t go with that interpretation, because the vast majority of those people are cowards who own the guns because they pee their pants at the thought a black guy with superhuman strength, speed, and ferocity will break into their house and rape their clips. Or magazines. Or whatever the Hell you call them. We saw what the militias were capable of with the refuge occupation. Bear in mind, that was their big day, it was supposed to be the call for the armed 3% to take back their land. The armed 3% sat on their asses, and the tiny militias argued among themselves about who got to keep the dildos.

  26. 26.

    BruceFromOhio

    May 30, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think you nailed it. I want this two-bit ratfuck soulless con man in irons, much like Smedley DP. A whole lotta ijits with guns may have something to say about that. While it’s only one scenario of many possible, I can see it coming to shots fired.

    Stopping there, because I took a lot of flack the last time I went down this path. Instead I will quietly hope for the best.

    @Frankensteinbeck: LOLOLOL excellent, thank you.

  27. 27.

    Peale

    May 30, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    Next up, why Obama’s stimulus ask was too small and how we’d totally have won back the masses in the Great Lakes region by now with that high speed rail project, even though they all voted for governors in those states who pledged to stop the project.

  28. 28.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 30, 2018 at 11:29 pm

    @chopper:

    but what’s it gonna take for the GOP to quit him?

    Convincing them that he supports minorities. He would have to be an entirely different person. Assholery and corruption will only make the majority of Republican voters like him more, because he perfectly echoes their resentful, mean little egos.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    May 30, 2018 at 11:32 pm

    Lock (him up) tease.

  30. 30.

    Jager

    May 30, 2018 at 11:32 pm

    @chopper: The trumpistas I know, have stopped responding to me, no defense, no offense. I’ve been losing old friends and family since 2000, at this rate, other than Mrs J and my kids I’ll die alone and you know what, I don’t give a shit. I’m a year older than trump and I want to be around when the miserable bastard dies in prison.

  31. 31.

    Manyakitty

    May 30, 2018 at 11:34 pm

    @BruceFromOhio: Right? Made me dizzy for a minute.

  32. 32.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:34 pm

    @patroclus: Restorative justice is the criminological concept that the purpose of the Rule of Law as expressed through the criminal justice system, especially the courts, is not punishment. Rather it is to ensure, via sentencing, that those convicted of crimes are placed within the community as part of their punishment in order to make amends for their wrongdoing thereby repairing the normative fabric of society. Braithwaite, an Australian criminologist, is the major proponent of restorative justice. He is also the father, if you will, of Labeling Theory.

    Restorative justice is appropriate for some types of crimes and some categories of offenders. You also find it as an almost organic part of tribal dispute resolution and justice systems. One of the things we observed in Iraq is that the tribal justice system is adversarial, contains a form of common law, and is restorative (except when it isn’t – don’t ask, we’ll be here for a month…). This is a real problem as the official Iraqi criminal justice system isn’t adversarial, doesn’t have a common law tradition, and isn’t restorative. When the British installed Faisal as king in Iraq and oversaw the creation of a “modern” Iraqi government, the only place the Iraqis seemed to have room to pushback was on the Rule of Law/criminal justice system. Rather than adopting the British model, which is adversarial and has a common law tradition they instead installed a continental European model. Basically a prosecutorial-investigative system that also had a heavy crime control component. Think France’s or Italy’s system. A British model would have mapped well/better to the traditional Iraqi system. The one they adopted – not so much. When we helped the Iraqis rebuild their system no one, apparently, decided to ask a criminologist to spend any time observing how Iraqi’s resolve disputes, including crimes, according to their indigenous (tribal) traditional systems. When I got there in 2008 and started observing this stuff and writing reports on it, I would get responses like: “this is really important, how come no one said anything about this before we reestablished the Iraqi Rule of Law system?” Short answer: I didn’t get there until 2008!

  33. 33.

    Mnemosyne

    May 30, 2018 at 11:37 pm

    OT, but the ballgame was on at the tavern we’re hanging out in and we managed to see the #RallyGoose in action.

  34. 34.

    Peale

    May 30, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    Since today I was lectured that my nephew’s drug problem was probably the result of an overly liberal education system that confuses kids with too many gender choices…I’m assuming that Baron making an appearance with a transgendered date and not being disowned would cause a grea5 deal of GOP defections.

  35. 35.

    NotMax

    May 30, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @Adam L. Silverman

    no one, apparently, decided to ask a criminologist to spend any time observing how Iraqi’s resolve disputes

    ‘Twas difficult to see anything what with all those pallets piled high with shrink-wrapped $100 bills blocking the view.

    Also too, conducting background research seriously eats into the quality time of the twenty-somethings who were put in charge.

  36. 36.

    eemom

    May 30, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    Here’s a little autobio of tonight’s copyright infringementee, Mr. Lund.

    Real salt of the earth kind of dude. The amazing thing is he was never a FPer here.

  37. 37.

    Suzanne

    May 30, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    Donald Trump can become the first president from the United States to die in prison…

    I may have had an inappropriate biological response to that.

  38. 38.

    trollhattan

    May 30, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    We have doves!

    First time since getting our…cough…bird dog the mourning doves have determined it’s their time to return to the persimmon tree by the bedroom. Here’s hoping for success, in the meantime here’s a portrait of mom.

    For the unfamiliar, mourning doves live across large swaths of North America and are year-round residents of the warmer zones. They always lay two eggs in a shabby nest comprising small sticks and dried grass. We have easily had a dozen generations from this tree over the years, and treasure their cooing outside our window. Hopefully, the dog/crows/squirrels/cats let this brood happen.

  39. 39.

    ellie

    May 30, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    I live in Denver and, while watching the news, saw a commercial from some asshole named Walker Stapleton who is running for governor in Colorado as a repuke, and, he says, he supports the orange doofus. How fucking tone deaf do you have to be to run a commercial like that in Denver of all places? Fuck him. Fuck the repukes. And fuck that abomination in the White House. I have run out of patience with the wheels of justice and am praying for a goddamn meteor.

  40. 40.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @NotMax: Part of the reason they eventually set up a program to send someone like me to Iraq. The problem is all those programs are long gone. Which means no one is getting these inputs anymore.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @Suzanne: Define inappropriate. Vomiting? Or some such? Otherwise, you’re cool.

  42. 42.

    NotMax

    May 30, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @trollhattan

    Woo-hoo, Dovecon-1!

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    Hmmm…

    Hello, @NYDailyNews & @nypost #toughcrowd pic.twitter.com/Xe0UxpXXCH

    — David Beard (@dabeard) May 31, 2018

  44. 44.

    patroclus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s a very informative answer, but it doesn’t seem to have much to do with Lund’s use of the term “restorative justice.” He is arguing that Trump should be jailed as punishment for his “crimes.” As you explain it, restorative justice would put him back in New York (after, presumably, being impeached and removed) and make him engage in community service and philantropy and outreach to all the myriad groups that he’s offended. And he, presumably, is also arguing that Cheney should have been prosecuted and various bankers should have been prosecuted and jailed also. Instead, those awful “Democrats” merely removed Cheney from office and enacted Dodd-Frank, which regulates derivatives and securitization. Which sounds more like “restorative justice” and rebuilding normative standards than any prosecutions would have done. So the answer to his question as to why the “Democrats” didn’t pursue “restorative justice” is that they did and the answer as to why they haven’t advocated for it now is that they are.

  45. 45.

    trollhattan

    May 30, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @ellie:
    Oh shit on a shingle, John Cox, Republican bidnezmayun running for California governor leads with his Trump endorsement and the need to protect our precious border. These people are All In. What color is they sky in their world?

  46. 46.

    Suzanne

    May 30, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: It was more enjoyable than vomiting.

  47. 47.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @patroclus: I never said Lund knew what he was talking about…

    But you asked a criminological question, I’m the criminologist on staff/on call around here, so I answered it.

    And you’re quite welcome.

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    May 30, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @trollhattan

    Definitely not brown.

    Exorcist green?

    ;)

  49. 49.

    trollhattan

    May 30, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @NotMax:
    First, they came for the “edible” shit on the ground I can’t even see, and I said nothing. Next, they came for the dead tree branch and some random dead yard crap, and I said nothing. Before you knew it, cooing everywhere!

  50. 50.

    Suzanne

    May 30, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I wish I worked for the NY Daily News.

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @trollhattan: Floriduh sees your racist GOP candidate and raises!
    http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/05/30/bring-back-the-hanging-tree-audience-member-urges-ron-desantis/

    Last Saturday in Citrus County, Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron DeSantis told a group of voters about the “four liberals” on the Florida Supreme Court overturning the death sentence of the man convicted of kidnapping, raping and killing 11-year-old Carlie Brucia in Sarasota County in 2004 because the sentencing decision had not been unanimous.
    “I have a tree and a rope in my back yard,” one audience member chimed in.

    “Bring back the hanging tree,” added the audience member, drawing laughter as DeSantis continued talking about the court.

    Listen here for the audio.

    When we asked for clarification on his position, DeSantis’ campaign stood with the hanging tree questioner. Hard to fathom any Republican primary candidate losing votes by standing for swift justice and vengeance for a child killer.

    “Ron thinks that Floridians should be forgiven for having some pretty strong and not at all politically correct feelings about what should happen to this animal. Let’s be clear; we’re talking about someone who kidnapped, raped and murdered an 11-year-old girl. The Florida Supreme Court’s decision was appalling and demonstrates once again why we need someone like Ron DeSantis, who stared down terrorists while serving in the Navy in Iraq and at the terrorist detention center in Guantanamo Bay, to appoint constitutionalists who will apply the law correctly.”

    Democratic Gov. Lawton Chiles appointed two of the current justices, and Chiles and Jeb Bush jointly appointed another. Republican governors appointed four of the seven current justices, though three of them were appointed by Charlie Crist, so….

  52. 52.

    Omnes Omnibus

    May 30, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    @Suzanne: One guesses, but let’s draw a shade, shall we?

  53. 53.

    lurker dean

    May 30, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    intense finale of “the americans,” love this show…

  54. 54.

    jl

    May 30, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I agree, some confusing and conflicting subtexts and implicit rhetorical frames in the piece. What IMHO was most wrong was

    ” The moment Trump looks like he’s finished with some part of his fan base, his intraparty constituency plummets to zero. ”

    Trump has already lost around 10% of his 2016 voters, and I think his recent surge is due to his high profile foreign policy and trade blundering, that to many people who don’t pay much attention, look like he is at least ‘getting something done’. Trump could lose all of his GOP base except a few hundred or so in each Congressional district. But they will turn out to the primaries. The GOP Congresscritters will do anything for those primary votes. So, we will only know gradually as we move through the primaries later this Spring. For the general, it will be each person for themselves, and after the election, if they are lame ducks, how much more loot they can deliver to their donors with some more tax cuts and health care system sabotage.

    And this is phrased so weirdly, it is hard to decipher. And then when (I think) properly deciphered, almost sounds like he is chastising those loser tax-and-spend, sodapop taxing big gummint Democrats.
    ” The Democrats will finally have a gimme with which to practice the arcane art of exercising state power to enforce the morals of a community. “

  55. 55.

    randy khan

    May 31, 2018 at 12:00 am

    Since it’s an open thread, and there’s already a sports reference, check out this save by Braden Holtby in tonight’s Stanley Cup final game.

    How?

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    May 31, 2018 at 12:00 am

    @NotMax:
    The only brown shade they like is called Eva. What PMS color is that, I wonder?

  57. 57.

    NotMax

    May 31, 2018 at 12:00 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Oh my.

    And still three months before the primary during which to escalate his invective…

  58. 58.

    Mike in NC

    May 31, 2018 at 12:02 am

    After we finished the (soaking wet) Old Town trolley tour of historic Saint Augustine this afternoon, we then got a tour of the Old St John’s County Jail, which operated from 1891 to 1953. In a group of about 15 people, one of the fat middle-aged women looked at the mannequins in the cells and said, “That one looks a lot like Obama” (no, it didn’t). This is our fucked up country in a nutshell.

  59. 59.

    BruceFromOhio

    May 31, 2018 at 12:05 am

    @eemom: I can’t decode whether you are being catty or ironic. Or both.
    That essay was something else, thanks for the link!

  60. 60.

    Peale

    May 31, 2018 at 12:06 am

    @trollhattan: since non citizen immigrants can’t really ever vote in elections, there really hasn’t been much pushback. At some point, there may be. But they won on immigrant bashing in 2010, 2014, and 2016. Until our voters decide to show up in mid terms and tell them to shut the fuck up, every mid term will be this way.

  61. 61.

    trollhattan

    May 31, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Good god. I have just the campaign song.

  62. 62.

    patroclus

    May 31, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @Adam L Silverman: And I definitely appreciate the explanation. I am now far more impressed by the concept of restorative justice and far less impressed by the opinions of Jeb Lund. (Even if he is on my “team”).

    My view is the best way to deal with Trump is to take the House this fall and beat him politically at the ballot box in 2018 and 2020. I guess I’m just old-fashioned but this “lock em up” stuff sounds like what the Trump people say and doesn’t seem like it would accomplish the goal of restorative justice (like we valiantly pursued in Iraq after 2008 but never really accomplished).

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @jl: There really hasn’t been much of a surge. The increase is within the pollings’ margins of error. And even with that, he’s basically at his historic hard ceiling.

  64. 64.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @randy khan: That was a great save.

  65. 65.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:10 am

    @NotMax: He’s an asshole. He’s one of Florida’s cruelest and nuttiest members of Congress.

  66. 66.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 31, 2018 at 12:13 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He’s one of Florida’s cruelest and nuttiest members of Congress.

    That’s quite an accomplishment.

  67. 67.

    2liberal

    May 31, 2018 at 12:13 am

    @SanofiUS People of all races, religions and nationalities work at Sanofi every day to improve the lives of people around the world. While all pharmaceutical treatments have side effects, racism is not a known side effect of any Sanofi medication.

    https://twitter.com/SanofiUS

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:17 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: The Florida GOP primary is going to be completely out of control.

  69. 69.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 12:18 am

    @Mary G:
    Who is going to talk drumpf into resigning? He’ll never think about doing this himself, he’s too much of a narcissist. Who from the republican party? They are using him like you use manure on your lawn. Putting up with the stink for what they want. Any democrat? Whose stupid enough not to want to see him go to prison? What dem could possibly think that the country wouldn’t be stronger/better with him in prison? Besides which dem would he listen to? Could his wife/kids? It is to laugh. One of his “friends”? They are going first. And he’s not going to pardon them, they got caught. They aren’t worth anything to him any more.

  70. 70.

    NotMax

    May 31, 2018 at 12:19 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Pin-ups of Kathleen Harris adorning his bedroom walls?

    :)

  71. 71.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:23 am

    @NotMax: I have no idea.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:25 am

    @NotMax: And I don’t want to know either!

  73. 73.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 12:29 am

    @trollhattan:
    Dipshit cox’s sky is blood red.

  74. 74.

    Suzanne

    May 31, 2018 at 12:33 am

    Every time I have previously read or heard about restorative justice, it’s been in service to a larger discussion about victims’ rights. I don’t know enough about victims’ rights as a workable framework for justice, but I have heard it invoked as a way to justify some pretty brutal treatment of prisoners, up to and including capital punishment. Would love to hear your thoughts.

  75. 75.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 12:34 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Don’t know which is worse.
    Florida guy is one sick motherfucker. But he’s not in the wild, there are a few of his kind running around lose to play with. He could get traction.
    CA asswipe is out there pretty much on his own. The possibility of him winning is pretty fucking small, although there are a few numbnuts running around here. They are what’s left of the fruits and nuts.

  76. 76.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 31, 2018 at 12:34 am

    @Ruckus: Trump likes the ones that didn’t get caught.

  77. 77.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:36 am

    @Suzanne: Please see my comment #32.

  78. 78.

    Chet Murthy

    May 31, 2018 at 12:38 am

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    I don’t think we can let this slide.

    I’m a patriot. I’m an American. FUCK THIS. If we can prove that this FUCKER sold us out to the fucking RUSSIANS, he should FUCKING HANG. And I’ll be willing to *compromise* on “life in supermax with no possibility of parole”.

    After that: we are a nation of laws. When the Predisent[sic] breaks the law, and esp. when he does so in an egregious fashion, we prosecute him, we sentence him, pour encourager les autres.

    What? Virgin Ben? Jonah? Sean? What’s your problem? Are you un-American? Are you against just deserts? Are you against LAW AND ORDER?

    FUCK YOU.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 31, 2018 at 12:39 am

    @Ruckus: There are three major GOP candidates in the primary. Everyone who pays attention to Florida politics will tell you that the front runner is current state Ag Commissioner Adam Putnam. Putnam was tea party before there was a tea party, but he’s got nice manners and is bland. Though he did manage to drag Florida’s beloved grocery store chain, Publix, into a dispute over the NRA with the Parkland kids. He’s also running ads blaming Obama for something having to do with his family’s farm. Then you have DeSantis who is basically feral bordering on rabid. The thinking is that Putnam is going to have to move towards the Trump positions, even if he can’t do the style, to prevent DeSantis from beating him from the right.

  80. 80.

    Chet Murthy

    May 31, 2018 at 12:41 am

    @Jeffro: ONE MONTH for every {life sentence sans parole} of a collaborator who goes to the slammer. C’mon, Donnie, you have the fucking receipts, show ’em.

  81. 81.

    Suzanne

    May 31, 2018 at 12:48 am

    @Adam L Silverman: I read it, but I guess I’m getting at something different, or maybe I’m not understanding. The issue that I’ve always had with some of the victims’ rights proponents that I’ve encountered is that the proposed consequences for crimes seem arbitrary and potentially vengeful. In a restorative justice framework, how are “consequences” determined for a crime? How are victims “restored”? Are criminals meant to make direct restoration to victims or their families? I’m sorry if these are dumb questions.

  82. 82.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 12:51 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    They sound like nice people. Could we send them on a Mars expedition?
    I got a couple of emails from this cox asswipe. I responded to him both times in an enthusiastic manner, using small 4 letter words so he would understand my position on him specifically and republicans in general. I upped the ante for the second response. He took me off his mail list. I don’t think he’s very bright. He provided me the proof.

  83. 83.

    piratedan

    May 31, 2018 at 12:53 am

    well, it does seem to be of general acceptance (even if its unspoken amongst the MSM) that Trump and his entire crew is dirty as hell, be it from treason to plain ordinary corruption and racketeering and voter fraud, campaign finance violations et all (and we have even gotten to his sexual misconduct and racism) I am still hopeful that our country is on the path to reject this outright fascism and start paying enough attention to start getting laws passed that reflect the will of the majority, gun control, health care, immigration et al…. lets vote these heinous sons of btches (and bastards) out.

  84. 84.

    Chet Murthy

    May 31, 2018 at 1:07 am

    @Peale:

    since non citizen immigrants can’t really ever vote in elections, there really hasn’t been much pushback.

    *cough* Uh, no. Lots of us now-citizen immigrants remember that once we weren’t citizens. And many of us realize that we’re next. More poetically, we remember our fucking Niemoller. I read recently that the Shitgibbon (sue me, Putinfluffer, sue me!) won his election with 27% of Asian voters. The lowest percentage of Asians ever to vote for a winning candidate.

    The *wonder* is that there are immigrants who *don’t* realize they’re on the fucking list to be deported.

  85. 85.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 1:07 am

    @Suzanne:
    I can’t answer for Adam but to me a lot of our criminal justice system is that in name only. First it’s applied very lopsided. Second a lot of punishments don’t actually fix anything, other than putting someone behind bars. Which is necessary but has to be done with the idea of not just punishment because other wise a large portion of the people jailed never change habits. Yes they want to stay out but really there is little to help them do that. I look at it like the anti abortion asswipes who want to punish a woman for getting pregnant, at no cost to the other half of the equation, and make the mother and child suffer by also not wanting to provide any care to them. It’s not a logical position.
    We still are using the Puritanical system that any deviation from the “norm” is unacceptable and requires swift and overwhelming justice. And it doesn’t work. And we have decades of proof. Three strikes and you are out was a manifestation of this. It works by not allowing, in theory, anyone who is a “career” criminal to be locked up for a long time. Of course crime will go down but you haven’t fixed the underlying problem in the first place. Take meth or opioid addiction. What do we do about it? How is our culture in any way trying to fix the basic underlying problem in the first place? The answer is we aren’t.
    Hope this has helped in some way.

  86. 86.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 31, 2018 at 1:21 am

    Anyone seen Steeplejack?

  87. 87.

    Msb

    May 31, 2018 at 1:47 am

    Nice piece. One nit to pick: Jefferson Davis was never POTUS. Closest he got was Senator and Secretary of War. Post Civil War he was imprisoned, part of the time in chains(!), for a while.

  88. 88.

    West of the Rockies

    May 31, 2018 at 1:48 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I think I saw him posting yesterday. I don’t see much of Hovercraft lately. And I still miss Redshirt.

  89. 89.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 31, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Not visually, but he was around earlier today.

  90. 90.

    NotMax

    May 31, 2018 at 1:53 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead

    He was out in force last night. Perhaps in a pastrami coma today.

    ;)

  91. 91.

    eemom

    May 31, 2018 at 1:56 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    No one’s seen YOU for quite some time.

    @West of the Rockies:

    What happened to redshirt?

  92. 92.

    hervevillechaizelounge

    May 31, 2018 at 2:02 am

    Jeb Lund is an asshole.

    Never-Trumpers are statistically insignificant; if the Republicans dump Trump they’ll alienate more voters than they’ll gain.

    Republicans need the base; even with voter suppression they can’t win elections without the racists and yokels. Until the right is positive the Russians can successfully jigger vote tallies in their favor they’ll stick by Trump.

    Any op-ed implying Republicans are oh-so-horrified by Trump’s blatant corruption and racism make me apoplectic. Fuck the media and their willful blindness and their pearl-clutching. When some nutty Trump voter (inevitably) stages his own personal Charlie Hebdo attack I’ll shed not a single tear.

  93. 93.

    West of the Rockies

    May 31, 2018 at 2:02 am

    @eemom:

    (S)he disappeared after the election. IIRC, made noises like she just was too disheartened to carry on even here with like-minded sympathizers and fellow travelers. Not suicidal, mind you, just utterly defeated.

  94. 94.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 31, 2018 at 2:05 am

    @eemom:

    What happened to redshirt?

    She disappeared after the election, maybe she’s building the bunker for her compound.

  95. 95.

    SectionH

    May 31, 2018 at 2:06 am

    Sorry if this isn’t funny but my real,computer (oldish MacBook Pro but up to date OS and all updates) has gone into a srsly weird failure mode. (I’m on my oldish ipad mininow). first my laptop just froze. That’s happened before. But a quick reboot not only didn’t help, but more keys started failing. Every time I thought of something, it seemed to get shut down.

    I’m currently beyond freaked out. I literally watched Photoshop for instance close itself. Help?

  96. 96.

    West of the Rockies

    May 31, 2018 at 2:12 am

    @SectionH:

    All I can offer is sympathy. How old is the thing? I have a laptop I bought in 2005 that still runs great, but I know it could bid farewell to this mortal coil at any time.

  97. 97.

    eemom

    May 31, 2018 at 2:18 am

    @West of the Rockies:

    Sorry to hear that. Hope s(h)e is ok.

  98. 98.

    West of the Rockies

    May 31, 2018 at 2:24 am

    @eemom:

    Commenters come in, commenters go out… You can’t explain that.

    But seriously, I hope Redshirt is okay and has found another tribe.

  99. 99.

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    May 31, 2018 at 2:30 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Probably OT and pedantic of me but Edwin Lemert originated basic concepts of Labeling Theory and Howard Becker fleshed them out to the point that he is considered the “father” of it (I prefer “founder” for obvious reasons). Unless you meant to say Braithwaite is the founder of Labeling Theory as it applies to criminal deviance and specifically to its effect on the offender’s reintegration into society.

  100. 100.

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    May 31, 2018 at 2:43 am

    @Adam L Silverman: and while I’m at it can I b**** about the fact that Kim Kardashian has gone to the White House to talk to Trump about prison reform?! WTF in the world is that big bubble butted empty-headed walking trash heap discussing the very real and complicated problem of prison reform. It’s not like there aren’t thousands of us with Advanced degrees in criminal justice and criminology out there that could shed some real light on the topic for the Great Pumpkin. Not that he would understand or actually pay attention to people with any knowledge whatsoever. But it’s still irritating.

  101. 101.

    SectionH

    May 31, 2018 at 2:44 am

    @West of the Rockies: Thanks. It’s ~2013,iirc. This doesn’t look like a hardware problem, though. I know Macs are subject to shit malware, etc. too, and it sure looks like something unpleasant that way. I’ve shut the machine down for now. Honestly I’d prefer to have been paranoid, and that it Is a hardware problem.

  102. 102.

    Redshift

    May 31, 2018 at 2:48 am

    @randy khan:

    Since it’s an open thread, and there’s already a sports reference, check out this save by Braden Holtby in tonight’s Stanley Cup final game.

    How?

    Holtby is, at times, a Jedi master.

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 3:10 am

    He has been a Democrat and he has been a Republican and he has alienated the ruling castes of both.

    To the country, a certain segment of the ruling class is politically amoral, and have no problem using Trump to achieve their goals.

    Also, I think that Trump is a coward, but I am not certain that he fears going to prison. He thrives on chaos and his own cunning, and may believe that he can escape any trap that might be set for him.

    I think that he would try to use martial law, even pull the country down around himself if he thought that it would help him escape punishment.

  104. 104.

    Barbara

    May 31, 2018 at 3:24 am

    He seems against all evidence to have a lot of faith in the willingness of Republican movers and shakers of every stripe to turn on Trump at the “right” moment. Umm, no, I don’t think so.

  105. 105.

    Manxome Bromide

    May 31, 2018 at 3:48 am

    I don’t think there’s anything going on here in this invocation of the Dems failing to achieve “restorative justice” beyond “they took your money, so we should make them give it back”.

    I look forward to the discussion of which parts were theft, and discussion of the degree to which the depositors whose savings accounts were not wiped out by the bank crashes are part of the problem.

  106. 106.

    John Revolta

    May 31, 2018 at 4:10 am

    @randy khan: It’s beautiful to watch in slo-mo. His eyes never leave the puck and his arm just goes where it’s supposed to, seemingly all by itself.

  107. 107.

    J R in WV

    May 31, 2018 at 4:12 am

    @Ruckus:

    Oh, Ruckus, would you show us the letters you sent the Republican Nazi in order to get off his mailing list…… please?

    ‘Cause I have somehow gotten on Rand Paul’s list, and I want to share my thoughts about him in such a way that he in no longer mistaken about my opinions about him! And it seems as if a look at your note might help me with that task.

    Back to bed now, maybe a few more hours of sleep?

  108. 108.

    Joyce H

    May 31, 2018 at 4:54 am

    @Ruckus:

    Who is going to talk drumpf into resigning? He’ll never think about doing this himself, he’s too much of a narcissist.

    Sorry, got to disagree. I’m pretty much convinced that Trump will resign. Because that’s his track record – he ALWAYS walks away. Once he’s convinced a situation is screwed up beyond all repair and there’s nothing more for him to suck out of it, he walks away, leaving someone else to pick up the pieces of the mess he made. He did it with casinos, he did it with the airline he bought and destroyed, he did it with the USFL, the football league that might have survived if Trump hadn’t gotten involved.

    He’s not enjoying being president and he never has, it’s boring and people expect him to actually know things and attend long briefings and meetings. He’s not getting the adulation and worship he expected, it’s obvious even to him that more people despise him than support him, he’s seeing criminal probes closing in on all sides and he can’t stop them, and more and more information keeps being revealed about his and his family’s criminal liability.

    I firmly expect that if the Democrats take back the House, he’ll resign before the new Congress is sworn in. Yes, you might say that 67 Senate votes is a high bar, but he won’t be thinking about that. He’ll be thinking about Adam Schiff with subpoena power. He’ll try to cut his losses and go home to resume his ‘normal’ life in his gilded penthouse. It’s too late for that, but he doesn’t realize it.

    Nobody’s going to have to suggest resignation to him – he’ll come up with it on his own.

  109. 109.

    satby

    May 31, 2018 at 5:19 am

    @Joyce H: that’s what I hope too!

  110. 110.

    NotMax

    May 31, 2018 at 5:21 am

    @SectionH

    In all honesty, could be any of four score and seven things. Most rudimentary to try for a fix would be:

    1) Run it using the power cord plugged in, not on battery
    2) With it shut down, check each key on the keyboard individually to see if one might be jammed, or partially jammed in a depressed configuration.

  111. 111.

    SFAW

    May 31, 2018 at 6:31 am

    Although Lund’s heart appears to be, generally, in the right place, he should stick to tweeting. Either that, or learn how to fucking write. He writes (long-form) like some 16-year-old who is trying to impress people with how cool, arch, and inside-jokey he can be.

    On the other hand, he might be a shoo-in for this year’s Bulwer-Lytton Prize

  112. 112.

    Frankensteinbeck

    May 31, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @NotMax:
    Lusting after minorities is perfectly acceptable to Republicans. It’s not considered respect. Bear in mind their misogyny.

    @Joyce H:
    While I don’t agree, I can’t deny you make a strong argument.

    he ALWAYS walks away.

    In business, he had the option of keeping the money himself and dumping the debt on someone else. That doesn’t apply as obviously here, and his pea brain needs obvious. More importantly, those weren’t issues of pride. He is President of the United States. It is the biggest bragging point anyone can have, in his mind. A narcissist needs constant external validation, and is utterly shallow about it. He can’t leave the presidency, no matter how miserable it makes him, unless he can find something that he believes looks better to other people. Other than ‘dictator’ which he’s found out he can’t get, there is no step up from here.

    It’s too late for that, but he doesn’t realize it.

    This I think you’ve nailed, and it’s a particularly strong point in favor of your argument. Narcissists are unable to grasp that they can’t run away from a problem. You want to see him really lose his shit? Have him be indicted after he leaves office. It’s contrary to his entire grasp of reality. The deranged conspiratorial blaming of everyone but himself will be epic.

  113. 113.

    SFAW

    May 31, 2018 at 8:03 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Other than ‘dictator’ which he’s found out he can’t get,

    I respectfully disagree with the “which he’s found out” part. I don’t think he yet accepts that he can’t be a dictator. Because he’s the most smartestest, bestest “leader” the US has ever had, so why can’t he rule the way he wants to? [That last phrase should be said/read in the voice of a whiny four-year-old.]

    Plus he would get to brag that Obummer never became dictator, so that’s another area where he’s BETTER THAN THAT BLACK MAN.

  114. 114.

    SFAW

    May 31, 2018 at 8:16 am

    @Joyce H:

    He’s not enjoying being president and he never has, it’s boring and people expect him to actually know things and attend long briefings and meetings. He’s not getting the adulation and worship he expected,

    Except now he seems to be enjoying the ordering-people-around-and-making-them-do-what-I-want part. My sense is that it’s one of the things he craves/loves. Whether he’s willing/able to give that up is hard to predict (for me).

  115. 115.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 31, 2018 at 9:07 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Jesus. Fucking. Christ. It is both technically true and wildly misleading in its pretending Trump isn’t Republican to the bone. He’s just the crude mouth-breather version, which is not rare in congress either.

    The writer’s point is Trump is an insider in the Republican party like say Nixon was so the GoP won’t protect Trump as one their own when the shoe finally drops.

  116. 116.

    sdhays

    May 31, 2018 at 9:10 am

    @Joyce H: No way he resigns. His ego won’t let him, and this time there’s nowhere to run. If he resigns, he’s going to going to jail, either a federal one or NY state one. He might be going there anyway. But being President is his only chance to stay out.

  117. 117.

    sdhays

    May 31, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: But this also ignores how there have already been several shoes dropping (p*ssy tape being the most obvious) where the Republican Party rallied around him as one of their own. The RNC is stacked with Trump cronies and the entire party is in sway to him. They are him.

    The only way some Republicans move against Trump is for their party to lose control of at least one house in the November elections along with a bloodbath in state and local elections and have the Democrats drive the narrative. And that’s being generous.

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @SFAW:

    Except now he seems to be enjoying the ordering-people-around-and-making-them-do-what-I-want part. My sense is that it’s one of the things he craves/loves.

    Yep. Trump loves the deference. He loves giving orders, and incidentally, hates the legislative process. In his mind, he rules by decree.

    But more than this, he gets off on having people tell him how great he is. We’ve all seen the fawning sessions.

    And most of all he loves the rallies. The adulation of the crowd turns him on. It is also where he let’s loose and feels most free.

    All this defines his presidency. He will never give it up.

  119. 119.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 31, 2018 at 9:30 am

    @sdhays:

    But this also ignores how there have already been several shoes dropping (p*ssy tape being the most obvious) where the Republican Party rallied around him as one of their own. The RNC is stacked with Trump cronies and the entire party is in sway to him. They are him.

    They are all scared of him because of The Base. But as the articular points out, The Base is just a celebrity fan base, they could care less about Trump’s policies, just are enjoying the show, sooner or later they will be bored of Trump. That is The Shoe that matters to the GoP

  120. 120.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 9:35 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The writer’s point is Trump is an insider in the Republican party like say Nixon was so the GoP won’t protect Trump as one their own when the shoe finally drops.

    Did you mean to say that Trump is NOT an insider?

    Nixon was an odd duck. He fought to be accepted by the GOP insiders. Remember that Ike wanted to drop him as VP. Also, Nixon always felt disrepected by East Coast Republicans.

  121. 121.

    The Other Chuck

    May 31, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:

    WTF in the world is that big bubble butted empty-headed walking trash heap discussing the very real and complicated problem of prison reform.

    Still more qualified to be POTUS tho.

  122. 122.

    The Other Chuck

    May 31, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @SectionH: You could try resetting the NVRAM and SMC: https://www.macworld.com/article/2881177/macs/how-to-reset-your-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    May 31, 2018 at 10:21 am

    @Joyce H:
    I understand what you are saying and normally wouldn’t disagree with because you are right, this is what he has always done. But he was never in a position of the kind of power that he has now and while it isn’t the power that he thinks he has and should have it’s a lot more than he’s ever had before now. This is his crowning moment. His moment in the sun, what he’s known that he’s earned by being him. He’s of an age where he may pay off a doc to lie about his health, but he knows. He’ll deny any suggestion or outright statement that he’s not fit, not the best president of forever. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I think he’s as easy to read as the very badly written dime store novel that he is.

  124. 124.

    lowtechcyclist

    May 31, 2018 at 10:45 am

    Lund forgot to mention George H.W. Bush, who pardoned the entire Iran-Contra crew on his way out the door over Christmas 1992. And H.W. did that for good reason, since he was not without involvement in that business himself.

  125. 125.

    workworkwork

    May 31, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    @ellie: That is Walker Stapleton of the Stapleton Airport Stapletons.

    In other words, a rich, entitled Republican douche-bag.

    I look forward to see him go down in flames.

  126. 126.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 2:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The Florida GOP primary is going to be completely out of control.

    So business as usual, then?

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