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You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / Felon Fellow Feeling Open Thread: One Part of His Job Trump Actually Enjoys

Felon Fellow Feeling Open Thread: One Part of His Job Trump Actually Enjoys

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… If the president wanted to send a really strong signal to his associates that they were in the clear, he could do that by pardoning them now. He could pardon Mike Flynn today. He’s not doing that. In fact, he won’t even give Roseanne Barr a certificate of non-racistness on Twitter. Instead, he has used Barr’s troubles to make a point about the way the media has mistreated him— me me me me me.

What the Roseanne episode reminds you is Trump won’t expend an ounce of political capital to help his political allies when they’re in trouble unless he sees an advantage for himself. This is consistent with the reputation Trump has developed over decades, as a man for whom loyalty is a one-way street, who will renege on contracts if he sees an advantage.

What we can tell by Trump’s choice, so far, not to pardon Flynn or Paul Manafort or other associates who could conceivably “flip” on him, is that he thinks the costs of pardons for them would exceed the benefits.

Such a move could trigger key resignations at the Department of Justice or in the White House. It could hurt Republican electoral fortunes. Maybe it would even arouse Republican congressional oversight.

Of course, you may not feel like any of those institutions are standing up to Trump, but if Trump wasn’t afraid that they would, wouldn’t he have issued the pardons already? He hates this investigation and feels boxed in. If he felt like he could just pardon his way out, he would do it yesterday.

So, if you were Flynn, would you want to rely on hope that Trump’s political calculus will change in the future?…

Reader Interactions

114Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    “Trump views law enforcement as merely an instrument of his political will, to be turned loose on his opponents at his whim and weaponized against itself when it tries to hold him accountable.”

    Vigilante Justice is going to be very tempting for a lot of people.

  3. 3.

    Cermet

    The orange fart cloud can’t pardon Flynn/Manafort/Cohen without specifying the crimes they are being pardon for; that would requiring acknowledging they committed the very crimes he is denying. He is stupid but maybe not that stupid.

  4. 4.

    TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate)

    Karma is a bitch, indeed.

    Game’s not over, Dinesh.

  5. 5.

    Schlemazel

    We will never recover from this administration. Even if the Dems gain control of all 3 branches for the next 20 years (and they won’t) we are fucked beyond repair.

    Please give me valid reasons to believe I am wrong . . . pleas!

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    @Cermet:

    The orange fart cloud can’t pardon Flynn/Manafort/Cohen without specifying the crimes they are being pardon for

    He could do a Nixon style pardon.

  9. 9.

    Adam L Silverman

    How long till he gives a posthumous pardon to Gotti because he was convicted as a result of being prosecuted by Mueller?

  12. 12.

    TenguPhule

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Uber had disabled an emergency braking system in a self-driving vehicle that struck and killed a woman in Arizona in March even though the car had identified the need to apply the brakes, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a preliminary report released on Thursday.

    Somebody at Uber is frantically dialing Cohen’s burner phone.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @Schlemazel: I think we will recover. And I think that we will have to put a lot of things in law, in writing — ethics, norms, all of it — because Trump has shown us how much damage someone above the law can do.

    I think we should demand the Senate drop some of their ridiculous rules that the GOP uses to obstruct — not bringing a Supreme Court nomination up for a vote, at the top of the list.

    We need to make Trump and his enablers pay so hard that the Portrait Gallery is afraid to put his painting up — and I hope it is never there, among the presidents. Especially if it can be proven that he cheated his way in. Which I think the GOP did. And I wish it could be proven.

  17. 17.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: Also, I saw the original when I lived in Scotland. All my friends from over there were furious that they’d cast an American as Dredd. They were most put out.

  20. 20.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    All my friends from over there were furious that they’d cast an American as Dredd. They were most put out.

    What did they think after watching the movie?

  22. 22.

    H.E.Wolf

    @TenguPhule:

    Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law!

    More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

    Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

    More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man’s laws, not God’s — and if you cut them down — and you’re just the man to do it — d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.

    ETA to fix formatting fail, and to add an attribution: This is from “A Man For All Seasons”, about Sir Thomas More.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    When a felon’s not engaged in his employment,
    Or maturing his felonious little plans,
    His capacity for innocent enjoyment
    Is just as great as any honest man’s.

  29. 29.

    Schlemazel

    @Elizabelle:
    A – you don’t really have any specifics for a way out of this
    B – Any law can be circumvented if someone as evil & disgusting as Dump is in power
    C – We need to agree on the laws first & there is the ‘law of unintended consequences’ which says that the new law will do damage to good people trying to do good things.

    Yes, I know I am relentlessly negative I am the little black ray of darkshine in here. But, I saw a way out of St. Reagan’s mess & even Boy Blunder’s. I just do not see one here. By the time we recover the world will belong to CHina and the oligarchs
    \
    .

  30. 30.

    MJS

    Until and unless Trump pardons his co-conspirators, I’m not going to get too worked up about this. This is just more garden variety Republican fuckery which, while bad, doesn’t approach the top 1000 horrible things he’s done since he stole the election.

  31. 31.

    Corner Stone

    @H.E.Wolf: It’s a great parable. And I used to believe in it. When I was just a little younger. But what does the righteous man say when the devil doesn’t give a shit about every law across the land?

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    EXCLUSIVE: Republican Sen. Ted Cruz was the major impetus behind the Thursday pardon of Dinesh D’Souza, the conservative activist tells The Daily Caller.

    Hmmm. Trump humiliates Rmoney. Romney runs for the Senate, pledges to kiss Trump’s ass.

    Trump slaps Cruz around like a whipped dog, and even insults his father. Cruz kisses Trump’s ass and works for a pardon for D’Souza.

    And somewhere out there, deep in the Beltway, some Villager pundit is polishing a story about how the Republicans might yet rein Trump in if he goes too far.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, the GOP is doing everything it can to keep Trump smiling and happy.

    ETA: Maybe somebody should see if they can get Trump to pardon Samantha Bee, who may soon need one.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: They didn’t like it. It was too American. I’d never read the comics, so I didn’t know or didn’t care. I only went because we were all going to see the movie.

  34. 34.

    TenguPhule

    @H.E.Wolf: The Devil has already torn down those laws. Now it remains to be seen whether the respect for the rules will hold in the face of everything else.

  35. 35.

    Corner Stone

    I love the guys running (ruining) Sears Holding just taking bath after bath because they are so fucking stupid.

  36. 36.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    the Portrait Gallery is afraid to put his painting up — and I hope it is never there, among the presidents.

    Oh, I dunno. Maybe that fake TIME Magazine cover he had dummied up to display in his various golf clubs. I wouldn’t mind if the NPG showed that, as long as there was a detailed explanation next to it.

  37. 37.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    They didn’t like it. It was too American.

    Its a comic set in a future proto-fascist dystopia after a nuclear war. What did they expect, Shakespeare?

  38. 38.

    Schlemazel

    @Ian G.:
    So the USA as a third world nation with a trillion dollar military? I don’t see that as viable.
    Agreed we spend way too much on the military but the vacuum Dump is creating on the international stage is going to be filled by billionaires & the Chinese and that is not going to end well for people who are not billionaires or connected to the Chinese leadership

  39. 39.

    randy khan

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Not that I’ve ever thought much of D’Souza, but that tweet is more proof that he’s an idiot. Bharara never was expecting to stay as U.S. Attorney past the end of the Obama Administration (although he might have stayed longer if Clinton had been elected, since the Southern District of New York might not have been a high priority with someone good in the spot), and on top of that D’Souza admitted what he’d done in open court.

    I see that he’s also said that he pled because he was threatened with additional charges, as if that was some terrible thing done just to him, and not to every criminal around. There are good reasons not to routinely overcharge crimes, but he’s essentially complaining that they treated him unfairly because he didn’t deserve what they do with every other suspect. It’s actually kind of funny, to the extent that the thousandth example of a conservative suddenly discovering that the practices he approves when applied to other people who are suspected of a crime aren’t so great when they’re applied to him can be funny.

  41. 41.

    TenguPhule

    @Schlemazel:

    By the time we recover the world will belong to CHina and the oligarchs

    Pretty sure we’ll all be at WW III at that point. We’re kinda sore losers at a international level.

  43. 43.

    Mai naem mobile

    I heard Harry Reid interviewed on NPR a few weeks ago and he was pushing against impeachment if the Dems take over because he basically thought it was a big waste of time because you were never going to get two thirds of the Senate to go along. While I get that, I just feel like you have to punish these pigs in dome substantial manner. They need to go to prison or become broke or something. Also, I never want to hear from the GOP about anything unethical or illegal a Democratic president or politician does ever. I mean ever.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    Gas prices around here have gone up about $.70 per gallon over the last 6 weeks or so. And summer drive time has yet to really kick in.

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule

    @Ian G.:

    Chile is a pretty good country and they had it quite a bit rougher from 1973 to 1990 than we’ve had it.

    Chile had a lot less guns and a more unified society.

  47. 47.

    Schlemazel

    sorry to be so negative, I am in a bad place right now and have been avoiding commenting here. It is a good policy & I need to go back to it

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    But what does the righteous man say when the devil doesn’t give a shit about every law across the land?

    “We will non-violently protest until changes are made!”

  49. 49.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: My take is that they interpreted the source material as English or British. So having it cast with primarily Americans and written and played as camp, and, especially, an American type of camp, were the major issues.

  50. 50.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    Gas prices around here have gone up about $.70 per gallon over the last 6 weeks or so. And summer drive time has yet to really kick in.

    Perfect time for Trump to do something stupid with Iran.

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Schlemazel:

    So the USA as a third world nation with a trillion dollar insurance industry that has tanks, jets, and ships military

    Fixed that for you.

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    @Mai naem mobile:

    Also, I never want to hear from the GOP about anything unethical or illegal a Democratic president or politician does ever. I mean ever.

    Well, I think that’s pretty unreal- hold on a sec, someone’s knocking on my door.
    “Oh, hai Salma Hayek! So glad you could make it for dinner!”

  53. 53.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Schlemazel:

    and leavig the nation in the hands of the Walton family, that will really be an improvement

    You have a problem with John-Boy? Or Mary Ellen? Or JIM-BOB?

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    @Schlemazel: No, stick around. Good to see you. But I think you need to watch a dog or cat video for a while.

    This stuff can ruin a day. I know it’s put me off my game today.

  56. 56.

    Ian G.

    @Schlemazel:

    I don’t know what you’re talking about. Chile is wealthier and more developed than much of Eastern Europe. It’s also a better functioning democracy than this country right now. It also went through a brutal military dictatorship the likes of which Shitgibbon will never come close to, and recovered its institutions and rule of law rather rapidly.

  59. 59.

    Calouste

    @Schlemazel: Laws are only as strong as the humans that are adhering to them and enforcing. Unlike what some lawyers seem to think, human laws are neither magic spells or laws of physics.

  60. 60.

    Gin & Tonic

    OT, but this is perfect. A retired USMC colonel in the DC area died, and his obituary said :”A native of Northern Virginia for the last 30 years of his life [should be ‘resident’ – ed.], he hated how all of you were incapable of driving competently.”

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    @SiubhanDuinne: Believe moi. Laughing.

    PS: WRT the Portrait Gallery: if they do put up the Time covers, maybe they can add a little niche for the Nobel Prize. Which that fucker is never, evah gonna get.

    Mostly, I hope Trump gets treated like Rosie Ruiz, who did not run the whole Boston Marathon it was initially thought she won.

  62. 62.

    lollipopguild

    @TenguPhule: The right wing dumbasses in Chile finally woke up one day and realized that Chile could not survive as a military dictatorship. They got the Army back into the barracks and out of politics. It took awhile but it happened.

  63. 63.

    john fremont

    @randy khan: As the corallary to a conservative is a liberal who just got mugged, a liberal is a conservative who just got arrested. See also Rush Limbaugh hiring a limousine liberal lawyer to defend him against “doctor shopping” charges.

  66. 66.

    Gelfling 545

    So for the legal eagles among us, if Trump were to pardon, say, Flynn would that be obstruction since Flynn is a likely witness in any case built against Trump?

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator: Trumpov knows full well where all the GOP’s bodies are buried, so to speak. If they turn on him, he has nothing to lose by exposing their whole rotten ‘dark money’ funding, to include funding from overseas. I know quite a bit of this is already out there, but there’s quite a difference between Jane Mayer writing a book and doing a few interviews vs. Trumpov himself spilling the beans about who’s laundering what into which GOP front groups.

    They know that if they piss him off enough, he’ll just burn it all down. So naturally I say, GOP, PISS HIM OFF!

  71. 71.

    randy khan

    @Mai naem mobile:

    I guess it’s time to repeat my impeachment mantra: The Republicans will be with Trump until they aren’t. It may never happen, but if they abandon him, it will be pretty much all at once, which is essentially what happened to Nixon. Put differently, either you’ll never get a single Republican vote for impeachment or conviction, or you’ll get at least 3/4 of them. Nothing in between.

    And, of course, it will happen only if they decide they’re doomed unless they break from Trump. The good news is that in 1974, they all realized it too late, which is one reason the Dems did so well in that year’s midterms, and that dynamic likely would repeat nowadays as well.

  72. 72.

    Corner Stone

    @Bobby Thomson: Oh, ok. I didn’t read the transcript because it started off like a parody script that was difficult to follow. I thought maybe she had said something about how Access was no longer her God and she realized just how much damage her supplication to an ignorant, racist demagogue had caused the country.

  73. 73.

    lollipopguild

    @Schlemazel: Do not be sorry, there are plenty of us who feel pretty much the way you do. I have learned to not express those thoughts here because people will jump all over you.

  75. 75.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: The WaPo could save itself a lot of time and effort, and just go back through the Balloon Juice archives from 2008-on for ideas and leads. Almost all of us were calling Trumpov what he is – an utterly corrupt Russian asset – almost 2 1/2 years ago?

  78. 78.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I mean for god’s sake Ted Cruz’s *entire political identity* is “I’m the outsider who is fighting against the corrupt establishment” and here he is wheedling presidential pardons for his crooked pundit friends

    Yes, the Right really at that level of Double Think now?

    KARMA IS A BITCH DEPT: @PreetBharara wanted to destroy a fellow Indian American to advance his career. Then he got fired & I got pardoned

    And Bharara will get another job and you will still be convicted felon with limited employment opportunities.

    Why hasn’t Trump pardoned Flynn/Manafort/Cohen already? Presumably because he thinks the political costs outweigh the benefits. If you’re Flynn/Manafort/Cohen, why would you assume Trump’s calculus will change in the future?

    What have they done for Trump lately? That’s why. Don’t over think Trump.

  79. 79.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So the USA as a third world nation with a trillion dollar insurance industry that has tanks, jets, and military

    Fixed that for you.

    And missiles, never forget the missles.

  80. 80.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Adam L Silverman:

    All my friends from over there were furious that they’d cast an American as Dredd. They were most put out

    How so, in the comic Dred is basically a NYC street cop.

  81. 81.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Look at all that overestimating of Trump. Only the ‘eating the pieces’ guy gets it. Trump is a mean-spirited, petty asshole who believes, and this is not hyperbole, that loyalty only exists when it’s directed towards him. Throwing his allies to the wolves comes naturally to him and requires no strategic thought. The people around him smart enough to game it out are up shit creek, because this is personal so he’s not going to listen. His gut tells him Fuck Those Guys.

    His gut also tells them he likes white supremacist assholes and meaningless pardons make him feel strong.

    There are no further layers of thought.

  82. 82.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    @randy khan:

    in 1974, they all realized it too late,

    I believe it is likely to be too late anytime an impeachment/conviction/resignation happens. It means things have failed pretty dramatically for the party in power. Tough to recover. Greitens may be an exception, with little support from the party, but we can hope not.

  83. 83.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Amir Khalid: Though Stallion did a good Dred for the little time they let him, but your right about the remake being dead on.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    They’re getting worse, the Trump Administration. It doesn’t change anything but I think it should be noted that they get a little worse with each passing week.

    So when we look back at all the people who are in power and didn’t do anything we’ll have a clear picture of the descent and there can’t be any weaseling out of it. We can’t see the outlines yet because we’re in it but when it’s past we’ll want to see what actually happened and the shape of the thing will matter.

  85. 85.

    Gvg

    It does worry me that Trump is experimenting with Pardons. I’d rather he was messing with other things and forgetting pardons.
    I don’t think he can save himself or derail prosecution by using pardons. He isn’t that smart and has incompetent advice. I do think he can make it more difficult and screw things us somewhat. Probable result is having to amend laws on pardons too, like all the other weak points in our system we have found out the hard way.

  86. 86.

    MisterForkbeard

    @TenguPhule: The remake was a *fantastic* action movie. To suggest otherwise is clearly heresy.

    @Adam L Silverman: For the love of God, go watch it. It’s like someone took an 80s action movie and did it right with new technology.

    Karl Urban is a really great Dredd. Nails it. They don’t even show his face the whole movie.

  91. 91.

    RSA

    KARMA IS A BITCH

    But karma isn’t a short-term thing is it? Wikipedia highlights:

    Preet:

    As a U.S. Attorney, Bharara earned a reputation of a “crusader” prosecutor.[1][2] According to The New York Times, during his tenure he was one of “the nation’s most aggressive and outspoken prosecutors of public corruption and Wall Street crime.”[3] Under Bharara, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York prosecuted nearly 100 Wall Street executives for insider trading and other offenses.

    Dinesh:

    On May 20, 2014, D’Souza pleaded guilty in federal court to one charge of using a “straw donor” to make an illegal campaign contribution to a 2012 United States Senate campaign, a felony.[14][15] On September 23, he was sentenced to eight months in a halfway house near his home in San Diego, five years probation, and a $30,000 fine.[16][17] On May 31, 2018, D’Souza was issued a full pardon by President Donald Trump.[18]

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: yup

    Noticed that Trump is really starting to throw around two of the least restrictive powers he has available to him: the power to pardon and the power to raise tariffs

  96. 96.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    and the power to raise tariffs

    This is actually restricted unless the national security card is played.

    Trump has abused it to the point of absurdity.

  97. 97.

    cain

    As a “fellow Indian American’, I would like to tell Dinesh to go fuck himself 1000x. Asshole. He’s no indian to me.

  100. 100.

    Ruckuso

    @Gelfling 545:
    If he pardons anyone involved with him in any way, they have to testify as they can no longer incriminate themselves. It is just the kind of stupid thing drumpf might do.

  105. 105.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Adam L Silverman: What the hell? Judge Dredd is American, isn’t he? Isn’t the whole series an extended British meditation on what ultraviolent idiots Americans are?

  107. 107.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Adam L Silverman: Judge Dredd isn’t camp?!?!

    That’s the thing that struck me as off about the Karl Urban one. It actually was taking the material more seriously than the comic does. A Judge Dredd story should be winking at you a little.

  108. 108.

    Keith P.

    “Dredd” is a really great movie, especially after having lived through the release of “Judge Dredd”. The main CGi conceit (slo-mo) is done nicely throughout, Dredd is all justice, and his sidekick is a serious rookie, not Rob Schneider. Plus t’s got Cersei *and* Avon as main baddies.
    It’s been on at 6am a few times in the last several months, and I watch it every time.

  111. 111.

    JGabriel

    @Schlemazel:

    We will never recover from this administration. Even if the Dems gain control of all 3 branches for the next 20 years (and they won’t) we are fucked beyond repair.

    Please give me valid reasons to believe I am wrong . . . pleas!

    You’re wrong – it’ll take 50 years, not 20. And only if we don’t elect people equally bad in the interim.

  113. 113.

    Aleta

    @RSA:

    D’Souza: Then he got fired & I got pardoned.

    And now Preet is free & you will never escape your Don calling for favors you owe him.

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