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You are here: Home / Open Threads / First they came for Roseanne Barr…

First they came for Roseanne Barr…

by Betty Cracker|  May 31, 20183:13 pm| 267 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Television, Assholes, General Stupidity

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…and I said, “Take her racist ass, please!”

Then they came for Bill Maher, and I said, “Fuck that bigoted knob! I don’t give shit!”

Then they came for Samantha Bee, and I said, “Back the fuck off Sam Bee!”

I’m referring to the wingnut outrage du jour: Samantha Bee referred to Ivanka Trump as a “feckless cunt” on her show last night, and conservative snowflakes have moved on from demanding that Bill Maher be fired for saying Donald Trump’s mother mated with an orangutan to screaming for Bee’s head.

It may be working. The video has been pulled from Bee’s show’s YouTube channel just in the last few hours. An excerpt from a CNN story about the incident:

After Ivanka Trump posted a photo of her and her child amid resurfaced reports that undocumented children are being separated from their families when they are apprehended by immigration authorities, Bee referenced Barr’s recent tweet.

“Ivanka Trump, who works at the White House, chose to post the second most oblivious tweet we’ve seen this week,” Bee said. “You know, Ivanka, that’s a beautiful photo of you and your child, but let me just say, one mother to another, do something about your dad’s immigration practices, you feckless c***!”

“He listens to you,” she added. “Put on something tight and low-cut and tell your father to f***ing stop it. Tell him it was an Obama thing and see how it goes, OK?”

I try not to use the c-word. I’ve scolded people for using it here, and in certain contexts, i.e., a man using it as a gendered slur against a woman, it’s deeply offensive.

But a white celebrity woman calling another white celebrity woman a “cunt” isn’t in the same fucking league as Barr calling black women apes. And comparing Trump to an orangutan isn’t even in the same universe.

Also, while it’s dumb as fuck for conservative snowflakes to whine about private companies firing wingnut celebrities who are bad for business (e.g., Barr, Kevin Williamson, etc.), it’s deadly serious for government officials to demand the firing of people whose speech offends those government officials, as Donald Trump has done repeatedly regarding NFL players who take a knee and Sarah Huckabee Sanders did today in reference to Bee.

UPDATE: Bee apologized:

I would like to sincerely apologize to Ivanka Trump and to my viewers for using an expletive on my show to describe her last night. It was inappropriate and inexcusable. I crossed a line, and I deeply regret it.

— Samantha Bee (@iamsambee) May 31, 2018

Kinda wish she hadn’t, but let that be an end to it. We’ve got more important shit to focus on, like the outrageous immigration policies Bee was discussing that led to FecklessCuntGate in the first place. And the fact that Trump has paid no price so far for the massive death toll in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, in which more people died than in Hurricane Katrina and 9/11 combined, thanks in part to the bungled response led by that feckless cocksplat Donald Trump.

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Reader Interactions

267Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    Kinda wish she hadn’t, but let that be an end to it

    Apologies show weakness. Never apologize to a Republican. They will throw it back at you forever.

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    And the fact that Trump has paid no price so far for the massive death toll in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, in which more people died than in Hurricane Katrina and 9/11 combined, thanks in part of the bungled response by that feckless cocksplat, Donald Trump.

    And he may continue not to in Florida, since the local GOP usual suspects have a cunning plan to make sure the refugees don’t get a vote in their state.

  3. 3.

    Central Planning

    May 31, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    I didn’t know feckless was a bad word.

  4. 4.

    kindness

    May 31, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    It’s curious that the English use that word all the time. It’s usually derogatory but for them it isn’t sexist as they use it at both men & women.

    We are an odd lot here in the US.

  5. 5.

    Readily

    May 31, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    TBS also apologized and said the episode/slur never should have aired.

    Winning!

  6. 6.

    Readily

    May 31, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @kindness: Bullshit that it’s not sexist. It refers to a woman’s vagina, so just because England and Australia use it more commonly doesn’t mean it’s not a gendered slur. Why should a word for a woman’s genitalia be a slur, you dick?

  7. 7.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    I could give two shits about Samantha Bee. She should have known better to make that remark just after that Roseanne debacle. Now, the right is going to get to fundraise on that outrage and dominate the news cycle. Meanwhile twits will be thinking “Yeah, both sides do it”. It’s fucking bullshit. If her show gets canceled, she’s only got herself to blame for that.

  8. 8.

    JPL

    May 31, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    @TenguPhule: They are US Citizens.

    Twitter told me that Stelter said Samantha Bee’s comment was hateful, and Roseanne’s racist. There’s a difference folks. D’Souza is openly racist, and will probably show up on Fox sometime today.

  9. 9.

    Readily

    May 31, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    Well, at least Sam Bee didn’t say that she’d pay good money to see Ivanka’s face as her hellspawn child had its brains dashed out on cement right in front of her.

    Because that would be vulgar.

  10. 10.

    jk

    May 31, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    i’m disappointed that Samantha Bee apologized, but we have bigger fish to fry. The entire Trump clan is scum and I can never be offended by any term used to describe a member of this utterly despicable family.

  11. 11.

    Readily

    May 31, 2018 at 3:22 pm

    Another commonality between Bee and Barr:

    Women are WAY fucking more policed for their language and behavior than men. WAY.

  12. 12.

    Rob in CT

    May 31, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Feckless was bang-on. The other one was an unforced error.

  13. 13.

    Manxome Bromide

    May 31, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    The word is (or, at least, has been) much stronger in the US. I’m younger than a lot of you but for most of my life I only saw it in fiction, and any character that did use it was portrayed as obviously thinking that women were useful to anyone only as freely-abusable sex toys. And the narrator wasn’t approving of that either.

    The rise of the Internet and the crossover from the English has been honestly super-jarring for me.

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    but let that be an end to it.

    Not one chance in hell.

  15. 15.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    May 31, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    From conservatism, nothing is owed.

    To conservatism, all is owed.

    Remember, the worst thing that one can do in this life is criticize conservatism. We owe it our fealty and devotion even unto the end of days.

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    May 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    We’re never going to get away from the bullshit distractions and chaff, are we? I want the media talking about Hurricane Maria’s true impact, Trumpov colluding with the NFL owners against Kaep, this pro-ZTE betrayal…instead, we get Roseanne Barr and Samantha Bee.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    @Readily: I thought TBS said the expletive should not have been aired. As in, bleeped out.

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    I think it was idiotic for Bee to use the C-word, particularly when dealing with Melania or Ivanka, because what in dog’s name did she expect? Stupid, stupid thing to do. Makes it easier for them to dismiss her entirely, as will the Villagers.

    That said, no reason we can’t think of the Trumps with the C-word.

    Signed, Elizabelle the hyprocrite (shhhh!)

  19. 19.

    piratedan

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    does that mean that Ivanka is a feckled cunt? or is the apology meant to imply that while we believe that she is everything that Sam Bee says she is, and while black people can call each other N****r’s, women can’t be calling out other women with that kind of language even though guys can call each other dicks with impunity…

    gonna need a scorecard to keep up it appears…

    I understand that its sexist and most likely incredibly inappropriate post the #metoo events… still, it smacks of playing into their fucking culture war meme’s which they are really very good at….

  20. 20.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @cain:

    She should have known better to make that remark just after that Roseanne debacle.

    This x 1000.

  21. 21.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @Rob in CT: Well said.

  22. 22.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    it’s deadly serious for government officials to demand the firing of people whose speech offends those government officials

    {Jemele Hill enters stage left}

  23. 23.

    Readily

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    “Samantha Bee has taken the right action in apologizing for the vile and inappropriate language she used about Ivanka Trump last night. Those words should not have been aired. It was our mistake too, and we regret it.”

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @JPL:

    They are US Citizens.

    But not Florida Residents.

    Like I said, a very ‘cunning’ plan.

  25. 25.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    May 31, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Here’s how it works – US citizens of Puerto Rican ancestry will be criminally prohibited from voting. Donald Trump will pardon the federal crimes, Rick Scott the state crimes. The election results will squeak out GOP wins.

    Then there will be earnest nonviolent protests while conservatives laugh and laugh and laugh.

    They’re not going to pay attention or have fear until some bad things start happening to them.

  26. 26.

    LAO

    May 31, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    This caught me slightly by surprise:

    I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.— Sally Field (@sally_field) May 31, 2018

    Also, can’t the press distinguish between vulgarity and racism. They are not the same, nor equivalent. I hate how stupid we are as a country.

  27. 27.

    Cermet

    May 31, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Sorry but I disagree; it is a word used to put any/all woman in their place and should not be used since it IS derogatory towards woman as a group. Woman have been put down and treated as true second class humans forever; language design to remind females of their only significance is a sexual vessel by using vile slang to categorize them is unacceptable – period.

  28. 28.

    Mary G

    May 31, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    I like her, I really like her:

    I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.— Sally Field (@sally_field) May 31, 2018

    @LAO: LOL

  29. 29.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    I personally think of Ivanka in much harsher terms every time I happen to see her ghostly visage. So it didn’t shock me. And sounded pretty spot on as analysis.

  30. 30.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    @Mary G: I think that qualifies for, “What did the five fingers say to the face?”
    ***SLAP***

  31. 31.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    I can’t believe people are defending Samantha Bee over this. It was a stupid, unfunny and hateful thing to say. I don’t want to see her show cancelled — I think she’s brilliant — but if that happens, I’d have a hard time getting too exercised over it. It was a lot easier for me to criticize Bill Maher for calling Sarah Palin the same dehumanizing name, because I already thought Maher was a jerkoff, but I can’t pretend that Sam Bee didn’t cross a line, and she crossed it for no good reason whatsoever.

  32. 32.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    With the White House having used national security legislation to introduce the tariffs, Trudeau called the measures an “affront” to Canadians who had fought alongside their American comrades in arms. “That Canada could be considered a national security threat to the US is inconceivable.”

  33. 33.

    LAO

    May 31, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    @Mary G: Great minds, right? lol.

  34. 34.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    I can’t believe people are defending Samantha Bee over this.

    She’s more palatable then having to keep sucking it up for assholes like Manchin.

  35. 35.

    HeleninEire

    May 31, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    @Jeffro: Hillary just tweeted about Puerto Rico. He’s gonna have a conniption.

  36. 36.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    @Elizabelle:
    Exactly, we havent shown that you can’t spew racist language without consequences and it should have ended wiht that. Now we have “You took one of ours, now we’re going to take one of yours” like some quid pro quo. No lessons learned, just more noise as we race to the bottom.

  37. 37.

    Tim C.

    May 31, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    As has been said, there are some words that have excess baggage. As a White Male Heterosexual Dude, I have it on my list of words that never get used by me. I think it should also be on every single other dude’s list, but that’s my opinion. I certainly think less of men who use the word. On the other hand, when you are a member of the group of people targeted by a slur, things get more complex. Either way, yeah, I call it an unforced error.

  38. 38.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 31, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    @LAO:

    Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.

    I really wish English had better (i.e. more poetic, gentler) terms for genitalia, as many other languages in fact do.

  39. 39.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    “I want to be very clear about one thing: Americans remain our partners, friends, and allies. This is not about the American people. We have to believe that at some point their common sense will prevail. But we see no sign of that in this action today by the US administration.” -Canada’s foreign minister Chrystia Freeland

    The Canadians are unduly optimistic about us.

  40. 40.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    In Australia, the C word means nothing, and is gender neutral. :)

  41. 41.

    The Other Chuck

    May 31, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    SB should do a follow-up episode in which she lays out all the criminal corruption that Ivanka is currently engaged in. Without, of course, calling her any horrible awful names.

  42. 42.

    TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate)

    May 31, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    @TenguPhule: Shoulda been a non-apology apology. She should have said, maybe *that word* isn’t one I should use because it is so often used by awful misogynists to denigrate women–you know, like the awful people who support and are willing to work for Ivanka’s dad. Instead, I should have just called her a terrible feckless [non-misogynistic expletive of Bee’s choice here].

  43. 43.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 31, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    I. Don’t. Care. Either about Roseann or Samantha.

  44. 44.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 31, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Also, I know Kathy Griffin isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but she had a very (*very*) long and thoughtful Twitter thread today about the way she’s been treated since the severed-head thing last year, and the power of the Presidency. Even if you don’t like her, perhaps especially if you don’t like her, read it. It’s worth your time.

  45. 45.

    catclub

    May 31, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @Readily: By the waters of Babylon?

  46. 46.

    The Other Chuck

    May 31, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Summary for those who won’t ever visit twitter?

  47. 47.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Is the media really going to play along with being more outraged with what Sam Bee said about Ivanka than with what Trump hasn’t said about Puerto Rico?
    — Schooley (@Rschooley) May 31, 2018

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate):

    Shoulda been a non-apology apology.

    “I’m sorry if anyone was offended by my heartfelt words.”

    We really have to stop unilaterally disarming in the field.

  49. 49.

    The Moar You Know

    May 31, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    Kinda wish she hadn’t, but let that be an end to it.

    It won’t be. She’s going to have her ass fired.

    As others have noted, the apology was a really bad move. Gotta stop preemptively surrendering to the GOP.

  50. 50.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @germy:

    Is the media really going to play along with being more outraged with what Sam Bee said about Ivanka than with what Trump hasn’t said about Puerto Rico?

    YES.

    SATSQ.

  51. 51.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 31, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @TenguPhule: Freeland is a very positive and optimistic person.

  52. 52.

    Betty Cracker

    May 31, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @Tim C.: That’s about how I see it. I don’t think women should call other women the c-word. I avoid the word myself. But I definitely find it more offensive when men use it.

  53. 53.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @The Other Chuck:

    Good idea.

  54. 54.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    I stopped watching Bee a while ago because I think she really overdoes the potty mouth.

  55. 55.

    encephalopath

    May 31, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    It’s a little weird that everyone is more upset by Ivanka getting called a mean name than Ivanka using her access to the presidency to get her international grift on.

  56. 56.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Indeed.

  57. 57.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 31, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    @The Other Chuck: Sorry, would be unfair to her. She had a lot to say.

  58. 58.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    Rudy Giuliani Concedes That Impeachment Is Coming
    by Martin Longman
    May 28, 2018

    …………………………………….

    This is an admission that Trump fully expects Mueller to deliver a report to Congress meriting an inquiry on possible impeachment. Eventually, Giuliani says, the House of Representatives will be faced with the choice of whether or not to impeach the president. Potentially, the Senate will be forced to decide whether to convict or remove the president. Giuliani doesn’t say that this is a possibility. It says it is a certainty. And that’s a long way from what he said when he was first hired, which was that the whole thing would be wrapped up in a couple of weeks.

    I see no particular reason to think Giuliani and Trump are wrong about this prediction. But, either way, they’ve clearly decided that the best way to defend the president now is to begin the political fight early while Mueller is still compelled to stay mum.

    Impeachment is a political matter that is fought over legal principles. If only one side is fighting politically, then that side is winning.

    But they have a lot of work to do to delegitimize this investigation if they have any hope of countering the case Mueller is assembling. Once the facts are placed on the table, the advantage will shift hard in the other direction.

  59. 59.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    @encephalopath:

    It’s a little weird that everyone is more upset by Ivanka getting called a mean name than Ivanka using her access to the presidency to get her international grift on.

    I’m wondering if I’m the only sober person on the blog right now.

  60. 60.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    Ivanka Trump is an empty Banana Republic gift card with security clearance.
    — Louis Virtel (@louisvirtel) May 31, 2018

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @germy:

    That’s how you do it. No need for dirty names. The reality is dirty enough.

  62. 62.

    LAO

    May 31, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @The Other Chuck: Here’s an article with the Griffin Tweets.

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    May 31, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @TenguPhule: It used to be inconceivable that the #1 national security threat to the U.S. might be its president*. Ah, those were the days…

  64. 64.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    Trump Is Openly Looting the Country, and There’s No One to Stop Him
    by David Atkins
    May 26, 2018

    The corruption scandals emanating from the White House are coming faster than even news junkies can process, much less the general public. Worse, it’s not even hidden. It’s all right out in the open.

    Let’s take a quick look. First, Trump has committed to protect a Chinese firm, ZTE, that has been deemed a potential security threat. He is doing this against a fierce bipartisan backlash. Why? Trump and the White House literally won’t say. But the recent Chinese investment of $500 million into a Trump hotel in Indonesia right before Trump’s decision might have something to do with it:

    Trump’s tweets, in other words, aren’t picking a side in an internal disagreement about trade policy. At least, they aren’t just doing that. They appear to involve overruling his whole national security team’s assessment of ZTE’s role in the world. And it happened with no explanation, no background briefing, and seemingly no consultation with the relevant officials.

    But it also happened the same week a Chinese state-owned company came through with hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, some of which will go to facilitate the construction of Trump-branded properties in Indonesia.

    The White House has no other credible explanation. It’s just out in the open.

  65. 65.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    As @CillizzaCNN chides @kathygriffin and says "name-calling is pointless," let's remember that Chris keeps a list of the names Trump calls peoples ranked by how awesome he thinks they are. https://t.co/g0YJ1DDyZ8 pic.twitter.com/tcrmJq4ft3— Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) May 31, 2018

  66. 66.

    LAO

    May 31, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Agreed.

  67. 67.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Guess Samantha Bee is going to get the same treatment. This time, you are going to get the full power of a Trump infested federal government behind it as he rails against her and go after the producers and companies. Since we know nothing is beneath him.. I can see him putting an executive order on top of all the other fucked up shit he’s doing.. and it’ll all get lost in the noise and outrage that’s already happening. Oh well. It’s her career and she fucked it up because I’m pretty sure nobody here is going to take the trouble to defend her because there will be by that time a whole new set of shit to be outraged about and we’ll move on.

  68. 68.

    gene108

    May 31, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    I am old enough to remember, when this level of right-wing outrage would get someone shit canned in a heartbeat.

    And standing up to it was a big deal, like the outrage over Murphy Brown getting knocked up and being a single mom.

    I think we have won the Culture War to a large extent.

    The people, who give shit about gays depicted on TV, interracial couples, etc. are being told to fuck off by corporate execs.

  69. 69.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    Russians are so much better at cussing than we are.

  70. 70.

    Ramalama

    May 31, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    @The Other Chuck: That’s a fecking great idea!

    I support Samantha Bee because her shows are funny, jam-packed with logic, and, bonus, she was the one to first to suggest that Trump can’t read.

  71. 71.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    @rikyrah:

    they’ve clearly decided that the best way to defend Trump now is to begin the political fight early while Mueller is still compelled to stay mum.

    Sadly, this is a very cunning plan that actually has a chance for success.

  72. 72.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 31, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I have never found her funny, even when she was on TDS.

  73. 73.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    As others have noted, the apology was a really bad move. Gotta stop preemptively surrendering to the GOP.

    Yes, because she admitted wrong doing, they’ll howl for her head. If she’s going to say stupid shit like that, she better just own it and be tall and proud about it. That way at least when they do can her ass, she can leave with her head held high.

  74. 74.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    Ivanka Trump looks like a puffer fish had a baby with a jar of expensive moisturizer.
    — Molly Hodgdon (@Manglewood) May 5, 2017

  75. 75.

    geg6

    May 31, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    Trump already lost a lawsuit against Maher regarding the orangutan stuff. I really don’t think HBO gives a shit what the Trumpers think. How many of them actually pay for HBO? What is the audience for Maher’s show? It has never been these people and it never will be.

    Bee is in a slightly more precarious position on basic cable. I get why she had to apologize, but I would have told them all to go get fucked. I’ve never used the “c” word in my life, but if I was going to, I can’t think of a better person to use it on than Lolita.

  76. 76.

    HAL

    May 31, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    The Trump admin calls for Samantha Bee to be fired, but let’s have a debate about how ABC firing Roseanne is an assault on freedom.

    Glob, I hate this country right now

  77. 77.

    Calouste

    May 31, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    @germy: Yes.

    This was another episode of SATSQ.

  78. 78.

    catclub

    May 31, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    @Jeffro:

    It used to be inconceivable that the #1 national security threat to the U.S. might be its president*.

    But from now, I can look at October 1962 and think that was a problem then, also.

  79. 79.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    @rikyrah:

    The White House has no other credible explanation. It’s just out in the open.

    Coming soon to your local DMV!

    /And I am only half-joking. The corruption trickles down from the top and if the rank and file see that there are no consequences for this at the top, its going to spread.

  80. 80.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    Why the FBI Had to ‘Spy’ On the Trump Campaign
    by Martin Longman
    May 31, 2018

    …………………………………….

    This wasn’t something they took on lightly, and in naming the investigation Crossfire Hurricane they were perhaps acknowledging that they knew they were wading into Hell. But they had received credible information from the Australians that Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos had been aware the Russians had obtained thousands of Clinton emails prior to them being released. There were three reasons the FBI needed to follow-up on that lead. The first was that, while they had evidence that implicated the Russians in the hacks they didn’t have anything that could be called incontrovertible proof. And, even if they were confident that Russians were involved, anything that might help them understand how the operation was organized and authorized would be vital for both investigatory and prophylactic reasons. Confirming that Papadopolous had foreknowledge and learning how he obtained it was therefore of paramount importance from both a legal and a national security point of view.

    The second reason the FBI needed to look carefully at Papadopoulos was to learn if he had shared what he knew not only in a drunken exchange with an Australian diplomat but also with members of the Trump campaign. And, if he had shared that information with people in the campaign, the FBI needed to know why no one in the campaign had told the FBI about it. If the campaign was not reporting it, perhaps they were instead seeking to exploit the crime to their own advantage. And that would open campaign officials, and perhaps the candidate himself up to potential blackmail, as the Russians could always threaten to reveal what they had done. Even if Trump had no awareness that some people in his orbit were coordinating with the hackers, he’d presumably want to know if people on his team had been compromised.

    And that gets to the third reason for looking at Papadopoulos. If he was in some way compromised or even working as an agent of a foreign power, that would be a national security threat given his position as a foreign policy adviser who might reasonably be expected to land an important position in any future Trump administration. These were all valid counterintelligence concerns.

    Now, the counterintelligence investigation wasn’t formally opened until July 31, 2016, but Stefan Halper made his first contact with Carter Page on July 11 when Page made an appearance at a Cambridge University symposium. This discrepancy in the timeline has been used to raise doubts about when the FBI first began investigating the Trump campaign for possible collusion. I definitely understand the suspicion here, but I think it’s probably overblown.

  81. 81.

    TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate)

    May 31, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    @TenguPhule: Okay, I guess that’s what is typically a non-apology apology…but I meant she should have used the opportunity to make a deeper dig at them, stridently.

  82. 82.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:49 pm

    @germy:
    The Puerto Rico thing is too complicated for the not paying attention crowd. But a woman calling someone else the C word is easy to digest and can easily be shared around in a nice package. The puerto rico thing is full of he said she said, too complex. Calling hte President’s daughter the C word. Nice and easy.. that Puerto Rico shit is never going to get traction like the Sam Bee one is.

  83. 83.

    Jeffro

    May 31, 2018 at 3:49 pm

    @HeleninEire: Maybe. It doesn’t call him out by name, which is a shame.

    Between Puerto Rico, ZTE, and Trumpov…dare I say colluding…with NFL owners against their own players, it really is past time for this farce to end.

  84. 84.

    randy khan

    May 31, 2018 at 3:49 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I imagine that the federal courts might have something to say about attempts to unilaterally disenfranchise an entire class of U.S. citizens. (I would guess, for what it’s worth, that the state’s argument would be along the lines of claiming that the people from Puerto Rico aren’t really residents of Florida because they intend to move back to Puerto Rico, but since you say you’re a resident when you register to vote, I think that’s a pretty crummy argument. Also, it’s going to be hard to distinguish people from Puerto Rico from other people with Hispanic surnames.)

  85. 85.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 3:49 pm

    @encephalopath: It’s a little weird that everyone is more upset by Ivanka getting called a mean name than Ivanka using her access to the presidency to get her international grift on.

    Congratulations. You have a bright future as a troll.

  86. 86.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:50 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Russians are so much better at cussing than we are.

    Considering they have to live in Russia, they’ve got good reasons for it.

  87. 87.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    @randy khan:

    I imagine that the federal courts might have something to say about attempts to unilaterally disenfranchise an entire class of U.S. citizens.

    I’m not sure we’ll like what the newly appointed judges will say.

  88. 88.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    @Readily:

    It refers to a woman’s vagina, so just because England and Australia use it more commonly doesn’t mean it’s not a gendered slur.

    Sorry, but you don’t get to rule on the semantics of language usage in other countries:

    cunt: A very familiar term of address. E.g.”Hello you old cunt, how are you? You’re looking well.”
    cunt: A difficult thing or task. E.g.”I’m not offering to help him move house, he’s got a piano and it’ll be a c#nt of a job to shift it.”
    cuntchops Noun. A general term of address, often depreciatory, and occasionally used affectionately. Also c#nt chops.

    But feel free to huff and puff all you like, and insist that it can only ever be a gendered slur. You might even win the argument with American English, but if you made the same argument in England or Australia you’d be ridiculed.

  89. 89.

    Shell

    May 31, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    D’Souza is openly racist

    Yes, but according to Trump, he’s practically a modern Jean Valjean. How he has suffered! For sheer minutes at a time!

  90. 90.

    Aleta

    May 31, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    Lindy West wrote about the difference today in a NYT column.

  91. 91.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    I don’t want to see Samantha Bee get fired. And I don’t think she will, although it might take us letting TBS and the advertisers know that we like her spirit (although not the word she used).

    Face it, the paleocon retreads are not her audience to begin with. We are.

    And she should not have put us in the position of having to defend her.

  92. 92.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    @rikyrah:
    Notice how they use Trump’s phasing with ‘spy’? Fuck we are stupid people using the enemies vernacular. Fucking morons.

  93. 93.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 3:52 pm

    @hellslittlestangel: What is trollish about that statement? The “everyone” clearly refers to the talking heads, pundits, WH and MSM. And the int’l grift part is absolutely provably true.

  94. 94.

    Citizen Alan

    May 31, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    I have an odd history with the C-word. I had never used it in my life and chastised friends who were vulgar enough to use in my presence UNTIL the 2008 Republican National Convention during Sarah Palin’s speech. As the vile she-demon droned on and on spouting stupidity after stupidity, I got angrier and angrier. And then, she got to that line where she literally mocked Obama for being a community organizer and how that wasn’t nearly as valuable a job as Mayor of Wasilla, and something snapped in me and I screamed C**********NT! at the TV so loudly that my roommate at the time ran into the living room afraid I’d injured myself. And ever since, it’s been like a burst dam with me because whenever I am confronted with a conservative woman who says or does something to demonstrate her utterly lack of humanity, I literally have to clench my jaw to refrain from using that word. It’s like a Pavlovian response was instilled in me by the ringing of a single bell.

    Bee should not have used the word. She should not have done so because it was a gender-based insult that is regularly used to dehumanize women. But I am not at all offended on behalf of Ivanka Trump. She is her father’s daughter in every since of the word — vile and irredeemably evil. Like her father, I don’t consider her to be in any sense of the word human. And there is no insult anyone could levy against her that would give me the tiniest spark of sympathy for her. I hope she fucking dies.

    So with that in mind, can anyone provide a list of gender and race-neutral slurs that we can use to tell these animals to their faces how much we despise them that aren’t unacceptable because they perpetuate misogyny or bigotry?

  95. 95.

    The Moar You Know

    May 31, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    This is an admission that Trump fully expects Mueller to deliver a report to Congress meriting an inquiry on possible impeachment. Eventually, Giuliani says, the House of Representatives will be faced with the choice of whether or not to impeach the president. Potentially, the Senate will be forced to decide whether to convict or remove the president. Giuliani doesn’t say that this is a possibility. It says it is a certainty

    @rikyrah: It’s not an admission at all. It’s an inoculation. Getting the rubes used to the idea and that it’s no big deal by getting out in front of it and addressing it now. Frankly, this might be the smartest legal/PR move I’ve ever seen associated with Ghouliani.

    I personally find it unlikely. But it’s still a win for the Trump admin, because they’ll be able to campaign and fundraise off “the coming Democrat impeachment”.

  96. 96.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    @jk:

    The entire Trump clan is scum and I can never be offended by any term used to describe a member of this utterly despicable family.

    come sit by me

  97. 97.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    @rikyrah:

    come sit by me

    Scoot over a little.

  98. 98.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 31, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    @cain:

    I’m pretty sure nobody here is going to take the trouble to defend her

    I certainly won’t. TBH, I’ve never much cared for Samantha Bee, but that’s more to do with her delivery (that weird thing she does with her arms, and her incessant mugging) than any bad language. Just don’t think she’s funny enough to seek out. But I never, until now, thought she was stupid. Apparently I was wrong.

  99. 99.

    trollhattan

    May 31, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    Should have copped Stormy Daniels’ “ignorant twat” Roseanne putdown. Ah well, good thing the DVR has it recorded so I can revel in Bee’s rant.

  100. 100.

    jk

    May 31, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    I can’t pretend that Sam Bee didn’t cross a line, and she crossed it for no good reason whatsoever.

    BULLSHIT. Sam Bee didn’t cross any goddamn fucking line. Ivanka Trump is putrid scum and a criminal grifter like her dad and deserves to be held accountable for her actions and statements.

  101. 101.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    @LAO:

    Also, can’t the press distinguish between vulgarity and racism. They are not the same, nor equivalent. I hate how stupid we are as a country.

    Yep. In context, I don’t care what Samantha Bee said.

    Neither do most of her critics. They are simply looking for an excuse to take down someone who they perceive to be a liberal opponent.

  102. 102.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    @cain:

    The Puerto Rico thing is too complicated for the not paying attention crowd.

    HOW is it complicated?
    1500 died because of Katrina.
    OVER 4500 died because of Maria.
    It’s not complicated at all.

  103. 103.

    Yarrow

    May 31, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    Ugh. I’d missed all this until seeing this thread. I like Sam Bee’s show and didn’t expect her to use that word and get herself in the middle of this issue. I thought she was smarter than that.

  104. 104.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    @Corner Stone: The “everyone” clearly refers to …

    No it doesn’t. It’s part of a comment thread in which some commenters are criticizing the use of the word. It’s the same usage of “everyone” that Trump does all the time when he’s lying. And the characterization of a dehumanizing, sexist slur as merely a “mean name” is pure bullshit.

    Come on. If I wanted to read this kind of weak-ass defense of the indefensible, I’d go to the National Review.

  105. 105.

    randy khan

    May 31, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Bee’s persona is the angry, exasperated woman, and in my experience angry and exasperated women use just as much profanity as – maybe more profanity than – angry men. My wife loves it (and I do, too), but it’s certainly not everyone’s cup of tea.

    Obviously, she shouldn’t have done this, for many reasons, including that it’s almost like it was calculated to rev up the entire Republican outrage machine. But it’s entirely consistent with how she does the show, so I can see how it slipped through. Truth be told, I’m more surprised it slipped through TBS’s standards and practices folks.

    Also, apropos of the discussion of how that word is treated in England versus the U.S. (and remembering that Ms. Bee originally was from Canada), I feel like her use of “feckless” sort of confirms the idea that she was using it in the English style. “Feckless [noun]” is much more common in English English than in American English.

  106. 106.

    MJS

    May 31, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    Oh FFS, there is no “unilateral disarmament” or any other such nonsense in apologizing for using a word that many find particularly offensive. She apologized for using the word, not for the sentiments accompanying the word. She also did not apologize for implying that Trump has sexual fantasies about his own daughter. Also, while she may still be canned by TBS despite the apology, there’s a possibility she won’t. Had she not apologized, she’d be gone right now.

  107. 107.

    chopper

    May 31, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    @Mandalay:

    but if you made the same argument in England or Australia you’d be ridiculed.

    well it’s a good fucking thing we’re not talking about england or fucking australia then, innit?

  108. 108.

    Yutsano

    May 31, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    @TenguPhule: We’re gonna need a bigger couch.

  109. 109.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t care what Samantha Bee said.

    Neither do most of her critics. They are simply looking for an excuse to take down someone who they perceive to be a liberal opponent.

    Exactly.

  110. 110.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    @MJS:

    Oh FFS, there is no “unilateral disarmament” or any other such nonsense in apologizing for using a word that many find particularly offensive.

    Come the next Republican to publicly fire it at a Democrat and who will not apologize for it, Remember what you said.

  111. 111.

    Aleta

    May 31, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    @Aleta: For those who abstain from the NYT, parts of Lindy West’s column:

    (edited down) Meanwhile, the right-wing backlash is unfolding as scripted: the usual cries of censorship, the usual recriminations about liberal celebrities who once said something mean, the usual lamentations about politically correct overreach, the usual free-market fetishists suddenly oppressed by the marketplace of ideas.
    …
    Right-wing Twitter (including Barr’s own feed) is now thick with similar sentiments: Here is Joy Behar saying something cutting about Trump. Here is Jimmy Kimmel. Here is Michelle Wolf. Why didn’t the outrage mob come for them? One important difference is that it is possible, or at least up for debate, for Trump’s decorum, health care plan, tax bill or hair to deserve mockery. It is not possible, and well beyond the realm of debate, for all black people to deserve five centuries of racialized brutality and dehumanization.

    … The culturally and legislatively enforced poverty, subjugation and mass incarceration of black people continue to this day, while white supremacist violence saturates our news media, whether it’s identified as such or not.

    Nikolas Cruz “talked about killing Mexicans, keeping black people in chains and cutting their necks.” Dimitrios Pagourtzis, posted photos of himself in Nazi regalia. Alek Minassian, who drove his van into a crowded sidewalk in Toronto, killing 10, was a member of the “incel” (or “involuntarily celibate”) community, Elliot Rodger, an incel hero who killed six people in a 2014 rampage, wrote repeatedly about his rage at the sight of white women socializing with black men. In Charlottesville Heather Heyer was killed by the self-professed neo-Nazi James Alex Fields Jr., one of Trump’s “very fine people.” The stories of black people murdered by the police could fill a library.

    Racism is America’s defining sickness, and comparing black and brown people to animals is one of its most pervasive pathogens — a rationalization that, even in 2018, kills people every day. Flint still doesn’t have clean water.

    “Roseanne” was not canceled because it is mean or “HORRIBLE” to compare a black person to an ape (though it is both of those things). It was canceled because it carries the weight of both historic horrors and current atrocities — because comparing a black person to an ape nods to a historically rooted yet increasingly emboldened far-right hate movement whose chosen figurehead, Donald Trump, is the president of the United States. Because it is our collective responsibility to not let that movement win, to fight to be a better country, and right now cultural power is all we have.

    Perhaps more significantly, “Roseanne” was canceled because it is bad for business (for now) when your prime-time family sitcom’s star sounds like David Duke — just as it will eventually become bad for the N.F.L.’s business to punish black players for protesting police brutality.

    From “Roseanne Barr’s Right to Offend and Our Right to Say No” by Lindy West

  112. 112.

    randy khan

    May 31, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Some of them are hacks, but that would be beyond hackishness. There’s already a lot of law on the question of how to determine whether you live somewhere, and it all comes out the same way.

  113. 113.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    If I wanted to read this kind of weak-ass defense of the indefensible,

    You work with the allies you have, not the ones you wish for.

  114. 114.

    Peale

    May 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    @HAL: Freedom is what white people want to do.

  115. 115.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    @jk: Yeah, people use the same dumbass reasoning to justify dehumanizing Valerie Jarrett.

  116. 116.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    @randy khan:

    Some of them are hacks, but that would be beyond hackishness. There’s already a lot of law on the question of how to determine whether you live somewhere, and it all comes out the same way.

    There’s a ton of prior decisions on voting rights and unions.

    Guess how that is working out for us?

  117. 117.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    May 31, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    I personally find it unlikely. But it’s still a win for the Trump admin, because they’ll be able to campaign and fundraise off “the coming Democrat impeachment”.

    I think it is more evidence of Trump paranoia than that of a cunning plan or his perceived merit of the charges, Trump will always be the innocent martyr in his own eyes, treated unfairly by anyone that doesn’t recognize is transparent greatness.

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    @hellslittlestangel: Well over half of the thread is not doing what you’re claiming. Clearly you disagree with the initial comment but your calling it a troll is bullshit.

  119. 119.

    gene108

    May 31, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    @LAO:

    can’t the press distinguish between vulgarity and racism. They are not the same, nor equivalent. I hate how stupid we are as a country.

    To do that the press would have to admit there is still a lot of racism out there, and when white guys complain about “reverse racism” via affirmative action, they are full of shit.

  120. 120.

    The Moar You Know

    May 31, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    HOW is it complicated?

    @rikyrah: My own mother, a woman with a master’s degree and a scary good education in general, asked me the other day if Puerto Ricans were Americans. She thought they might be but really didn’t know.

    That’s how it’s complicated. Few people know it’s America. And therefore just don’t give a shit.

  121. 121.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    @rikyrah:

    HOW is it complicated?
    1500 died because of Katrina.
    OVER 4500 died because of Maria.
    It’s not complicated at all.

    Trump says 15, Report says 4,500. Both sides have to compromise. Let’s agree to disagree /Our Media

  122. 122.

    Shalimar

    May 31, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    Bee apologized for the specific language, not for the sentiment behind it. There are thousands of other ways she could have pointed out that Ivanka supports her father’s evil. Apologizing for one word cost Bee nothing, and ended any chance anyone at TBS will listen to the endless whining for her head.

  123. 123.

    JPL

    May 31, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    The asshole in chief said that Nancy Pelosi loved a violent gang, and I don’t remember him apologizing.

  124. 124.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:08 pm

    @rikyrah: Also, Puerto Rico is in the odd position of not being counted as a state for National Elections, despite the inhabitants being US citizens.

  125. 125.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    May 31, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    @Mandalay: Wot he said. My Bro in Law says “ya daft cunt” to my DH all the time, it is not the same in England, Australia and Canada as it is in the US. In the US it is used by old white men as a derogatory term for women who they believe are above their station. My old boss used it all the time to refer to any female attorney who took an opposing view to him.

  126. 126.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    @rikyrah: I think the Puerto Rico story does bother a lot of people, but it hasn’t made the poutrage du jour status.

    It’s never been believable that Puerto Ricans are living on an island without electricity, in substandard post-hurricane conditions, and there are NOT a lot of deaths attributable to that. Thousands of deaths, a lot are people dying before their time because of the privation.

    I think people are just hit by wave after wave after wave of stories about all the shit that’s going on, and maybe they discuss the less painful ones — the pop culture ones — because in whole, all of this is too much to bear.

    I do not think “we” brought this on ourselves (I speak of the Trump occupation).

  127. 127.

    The Moar You Know

    May 31, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    Had she not apologized, she’d be gone right now.

    @MJS: She will be gone by Monday at the latest. The righties want payback for Roseanne and they’re not going to let this go until they get it.

    Why bother apologizing? If you say it, own it. I certainly would not have, because they’d come for my ass anyway. And get it.

  128. 128.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    @chopper:

    it’s a good fucking thing we’re not talking about england or fucking australia then

    Except two posters were explicitly talking about England and Australia, dumbfuck. Do try to keep up.

  129. 129.

    gene108

    May 31, 2018 at 4:11 pm

    @cain:

    She said she shouldn’t use vulgar language. She didn’t apologize for calling Ivanka feckless or that she could do something to keep children from being taken from their parents.

    It was a good apology.

    What we need to do is get at whoever owns TBS and demand she not be canceled

  130. 130.

    Aleta

    May 31, 2018 at 4:11 pm

    @Aleta: Btw, there’s a lot more in that Lindy West piece, and it’s good.

  131. 131.

    Cacti

    May 31, 2018 at 4:12 pm

    Never apologize to the Trumps, ever, for any reason.

    They have no intention of keeping any norms of decency or civility toward the rest of us, and are only interested in weaponizing any apologies they receive.

  132. 132.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:12 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I think people are just hit by wave after wave after wave of stories about all the shit that’s going on, and maybe they discuss the less painful ones, because in whole, all of this is too much to bear.

    Trump gaslighted the media on the initial reporting, got them to report a lot of “Everything is going fine” stories about Puerto Rico and most of the country have forgotten the whole thing and believe that the job was done right.
    Never mind that the truth came out later, the lies ran around the world first.

    First Impressions are everything.

  133. 133.

    chris

    May 31, 2018 at 4:12 pm

    @randy khan:

    Ms. Bee originally was from Canada

    Makes no difference, the word is not permitted here either. That said, I stand with Sam Bee even though I wish she’d used another word.

  134. 134.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    Because Australians use the word differently, therefore it is not sexist for Bee to call Trump a c*nt.

    Because people called Bush a “smirking chimp,” therefore it is not racist to call Valerie Jarrett an ape.

    Really, it’s a lot less work to not be completely full of shit.

  135. 135.

    SG

    May 31, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    I agree. Never apologize to a Republican. It should also be understood: with the exception of the hapless domestic help, if you are associated with or work for Donald Trump in any way, you are either a [edited to remove some really harsh language. Use your imagination to describe those who seek money, favors, etc. in return for abasing themselves in a cowardly and gendered fashion.]

  136. 136.

    MJS

    May 31, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    @TenguPhule: Getting to use that word with no consequences is perhaps the least consequential “win”, ever.

  137. 137.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    @Corner Stone: I think characterizing “c*nt” as a “mean name” is a textbook example of trolling.

  138. 138.

    JohnO

    May 31, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Right.

    To paraphrase a current meme, “this is why D’s lose.”

    Also, only loosely related, I am tired of “speech” being granted more importance than “actions.” I’m w/ Roy on the whole issue.

    Put me down on the let’s call a c#nt a c#nt side and explain why when it’s criticized.

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    May 31, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    @randy khan:

    “Feckless” is indeed a wonderful word. One of my all-time favourite moments in The West Wing was when President Bartlet stood alone in the National Cathedral, ranting at God in
    mixed English and conversational Latin, eventually shaking his fist heavenwards and yelling “Have I displeased You, you feckless thug?”

  140. 140.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    therefore it is not sexist for Bee to call Trump a c*nt.

    Actually I think that has to do with the whole both of them being women part.

  141. 141.

    Mary G

    May 31, 2018 at 4:19 pm

    Ed Killgore at NY Mag is one of my favorite writers. Today:

    Seniors Are More Conservative Because the Poor Don’t Survive to Become Seniors

    Add to this negative trend the fact that mortality among the poor increases during middle age — which is when citizens generally get more involved in politics. The premature disappearance of the poor, then, occurs precisely at the moment when they would be expected to reach their “participatory peak” in society. But they don’t live long enough to achieve that milestone.

  142. 142.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 31, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Apologies show weakness. Never apologize to a Republican. They will throw it back at you forever.

    “I am sorry your delicate feelings were so upset by a true statement by me that they drove you tears of pain.”

    That being said – not sure how the C word applies to Melina Trump – “soulless gold digger with heavily modified exterior and yet for that, the lest offensive part of the Trump administration” maybe but I don’t see Melina acting like she is thinking with her reproductive organs like the C word means.

  143. 143.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    @Mary G:

    Seniors Are More Conservative Because the Poor Don’t Survive to Become Seniors

    /Must resist urge to make inappropriate jokes about this

  144. 144.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:22 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    but I don’t see Melina acting like she is thinking with her reproductive organs like the C means.

    I thought the implication is that her only value to Trump was her labeling. The rest of it is all window dressing.

  145. 145.

    ruemara

    May 31, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Yoni is ripe for appropriation.

    @Mary G: Working as intended then.

  146. 146.

    trollhattan

    May 31, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Although they used less adroit construction Republicans were forever calling Obama a feckless tyrant. I was constantly yelling at them to “Choose one, damnit!”

  147. 147.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 4:26 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    Because Australians use the word differently, therefore it is not sexist for Bee to call Trump a c*nt. Because people called Bush a “smirking chimp,” therefore it is not racist to call Valerie Jarrett an ape.

    It’s ironic that after correctly calling out another poster for making bogus claims, you go down the same rabbit hole yourself.

  148. 148.

    Mary G

    May 31, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    @ruemara: Another reason they hate Obamacare so much.

  149. 149.

    NickM

    May 31, 2018 at 4:27 pm

    What’s the problem? She’s totally feckless.

  150. 150.

    trollhattan

    May 31, 2018 at 4:28 pm

    Apologies if it’s covered upthread, but recall this Scottish welcome for Trump?

  151. 151.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    May 31, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    I’m so awash in hatred for people who can let Puerto Ricans die, take frightened children from their parents, and pardon lawbreakers because … well, they feel like it and don’t believe in the rule of law. And that’s just today. I don’t have room to worry about a comedian calling someone a rude name.

  152. 152.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    @Mandalay: Sorry. I thought it was clear I was demonstrating the fallacy of the first argument by comparing it to the second one.

  153. 153.

    Citizen Alan

    May 31, 2018 at 4:31 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    How could they fire her?!? This wasn’t a tweet on her own time. It wasn’t a live broadcast. The network itself has a Standards and Practices division review all this stuff. And the network knew she said it as soon as she did (if not before if it was a scripted remark) and still let it be broadcast.

  154. 154.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 4:31 pm

    A point here: you don’t apologize just because Republicans are howling.

    You apologize because you used a word that demeans women IN THIS COUNTRY, and in doing so you distracted from your message and were just plain vulgar.

    We all laugh at Trump’s vocabulary of — what, 500 words? That speaks for itself. So: we and the entertainers we enjoy are more intelligent and can find more articulate ways to express ourselves.

    Be smart. Don’t be vulgar.

  155. 155.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    Bee apologized

    She should have said, “I meant to call her an asshole,” and left it at that.

  156. 156.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    @hellslittlestangel: OK, my bad. I got whooshed.

  157. 157.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    May 31, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    They’re not going to pay attention or have fear until some bad things start happening to them.

    Oh right, that won’t give them the perfect opportunity to crack down on all opposition.

  158. 158.

    schrodingers_cat

    May 31, 2018 at 4:37 pm

    @ruemara: Already done, where do you think union comes from.

  159. 159.

    Amir Khalid

    May 31, 2018 at 4:37 pm

    @kindness:
    In this context it was one American woman calling another American woman that word, so it it is the American usage that needs to be considered. Samanths Bee certainly didn’t need it to make her point. Should she have used some milder word? I think so, but I’m not sure which one. “Jerk”, maybe?

  160. 160.

    gene108

    May 31, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    @encephalopath:

    It’s a little weird that everyone is more upset by Ivanka getting called a mean name than Ivanka using her access to the presidency to get her international grift on.

    I think at some point, the media has internalized that Trumps are going to be corrupt. It’s sort of a “boys will be boys” attitude, because it just seems natural that this is the way things will be.

  161. 161.

    jk

    May 31, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    There’s no equivalence between Samantha Bee and Roseanne. Don’t be a sucker and fall for this false narrative.

    Personally, I would have called Ivanka an asshole, but I don’t think everyone needs to get so worked up about this incident.

  162. 162.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    @Mandalay: No, I have the bad habit of being lazy when I think I’m being pithy.

  163. 163.

    Schlemazel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    I just don’t get it. Right now ‘cunt’ is one of those loaded words that no American should be using (We give a pass to our Oz mates because it carries no ugly weight there). WTF was she thinking? I admit to being pretty vulgar – it is one of my many charms – and that is one of several words I will never use, even in anger. To have thought it out & scripted it makes no sense at all.

    Now that word does not rise to the level of racism and conspiracy bullshit that the GOP loves & Roseanne is the most recent example but it really is inexcusable. I have seen photos of signs & T-shirts calling Hillary one but that is still never acceptable.

  164. 164.

    Amir Khalid

    May 31, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @Mandalay:
    Congratulations! You win today’s “Missing The Point” prize.

  165. 165.

    Schlemazel

    May 31, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @jk: ‘It is not a question of us falling for it, it is the media and the great disinterested who now believe “both side do it”

  166. 166.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    And that’s just today.

    Just think about what tomorrow will bring.

    On second thought, don’t. Its too depressing.

  167. 167.

    chopper

    May 31, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    @Mandalay:

    they were talking about england and australia in that the word has a completely different use here. and they’re right.

    likewise, it’s still a reference to the female body, even if in other countries it’s used all over the place. like we use the word ‘shit’ in all manner of ways in america, but the word still refers to, well, shit.

  168. 168.

    NY Robbin

    May 31, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    @TenguPhule: I hope it’s a big couch.

  169. 169.

    chopper

    May 31, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    @Mandalay:

    oh and also, why don’t you do us all a favor and go find a fire to die in?

    thanks in advance!

  170. 170.

    Steeplejack

    May 31, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Excellent Twitter thread by Rebecca Traister about Samantha Bee and the C-word.

  171. 171.

    Barbara

    May 31, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    @Mary G: Seriously, Sally Field has the right response — it’s wrong because being in possession of female anatomy should not be something that is used as a slur. And you know what? I doubt if Trump does listen to Ivanka, not on this stuff. Which doesn’t make me like Ivanka, I think she’s horrible, but I’m not holding her father’s particular awfulness on the subject of refugees and migrants against her.

  172. 172.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    May 31, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    @TenguPhule: Sounds like fire is still raining down on the Big Island.

  173. 173.

    chopper

    May 31, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:

    it was very clear. mandalay is just an idiot.

  174. 174.

    germy

    May 31, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Did Michael Steele just call Repub congressional leaders numbnuts?

    Yes. Yes he did.@NicolleDWallace

    — Jeff Farias (@jefffarias) May 31, 2018

  175. 175.

    Yutsano

    May 31, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    @TenguPhule: How can you say that? Tomorrow is News Dump Friday!!! And maybe eve Indictment Announcement Friday!!!

  176. 176.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    @jk:

    Personally, I would have called Ivanka an asshole, but I don’t think everyone needs to get so worked up about this incident.

    IMO, “feckless grifter” or “feckless con woman” would have gotten the point across fairly well.

  177. 177.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Oh right, that won’t give them the perfect opportunity to crack down on all opposition.

    You think they really need to bother with an excuse at this point? They’ve already got police chasing and killing black people right now for the crime of being black people. The worst offenders are the only ones getting anything resembling punishment and only because they’re caught on camera.

    The institutions are crumbling in slow motion real time.

    Only Trump’s chicken heart and inherent laziness is keeping him from crossing over that final line right now.

  178. 178.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 4:46 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    So with that in mind, can anyone provide a list of gender and race-neutral slurs that we can use to tell these animals to their faces how much we despise them that aren’t unacceptable because they perpetuate misogyny or bigotry?

    I guess the general rule is that a word must be able to be applied equally to all persons.

    So, Ivanka could be an asshole, but not a p*ssy. She could even be a nipple (but never a Nip).. And, invoking the Carlin rule, Ivanka could be a co*ksucker or even a motherf*cker, and definitely a fatherf*cker.

  179. 179.

    Immanentize

    May 31, 2018 at 4:46 pm

    @Brachiator: Or perhaps, “In upholding the decorum of her family, I should have called her a feckless pu$sy.”

    ETA That would have been a furtherance of Sam Bee’s comedic persona….

  180. 180.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:47 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):

    Sounds like fire is still raining down on the Big Island.

    We’ve progressed to rains of ash and rivers of lava now. BillatCA would probably kill for some of those Photo opportunities.

  181. 181.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 4:47 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Give it a couple of years and you’ll know what it’s like.

  182. 182.

    ruemara

    May 31, 2018 at 4:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t think union really brings out the yoni fun tho. And let’s be real, something that fun shouldn’t be cuss word. Getting touched by the yoni is the biggest motivator of straight men of good intent that isn’t money.

  183. 183.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    @germy:

    Did Michael Steele just call Repub congressional leaders numbnuts?

    Yes. Yes he did.

    I am seeing this and I am still sober. Something is clearly very wrong here.

  184. 184.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 4:49 pm

    There is no logical argument to be made between Roseanne buying back into, again, the racist slur that blacks are animals and especially black women are less than human and the way Bee addressed Ivanka.

  185. 185.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 4:50 pm

    @trollhattan: Completely O/T, but from your link:

    Scotland is handcuffed to a nation that voted to leave Europe based on lies and racism.

    There’s a ton of truth squeezed into that powerful sentence. Great writing.

  186. 186.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:50 pm

    @Yutsano:

    How can you say that? Tomorrow is News Dump Friday!!!

    Infrastructure week is exhausting.

  187. 187.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 4:51 pm

    @Immanentize: That would be great. Hard not to laugh at that one.

  188. 188.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 4:51 pm

    @randy khan:

    I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that the English usage is non-gendered. You use it of men to humiliate them, like “little girl.”

  189. 189.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:51 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    There is no logical argument to be made between Roseanne buying back into, again, the racist slur that blacks are animals and especially black women are less than human and the way Bee addressed Ivanka.

    So a natural fit for Republican posturing.

  190. 190.

    Immanentize

    May 31, 2018 at 4:53 pm

    @Elizabelle: I will be here all weekend! Tip the wait staff….

  191. 191.

    Mary G

    May 31, 2018 at 4:54 pm

    "There is no Republican party. There’s a Trump party. Republican party is kinda taking a nap somewhere," former Speaker Boehner says. https://t.co/HstTNpDeEH pic.twitter.com/yh05bVgZOm— NBC News (@NBCNews) May 31, 2018

    They’re inching towards dumping Twitler and excuse it all as a dream, except for tax cuts.

  192. 192.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:55 pm

    Big Isle mayor signs mandatory evacuation order for section of Leilani Estates

    Hawaii County Mayor Harry Kim has signed a mandatory evacuation order covering about half of the Leilani Estates subdivision and is officially warning people who remain in behind that police and firefighters may not respond if they get into trouble.

    The Leilani Estates subdivision was officially evacuated shortly after the May 3 eruption of Kilauea volcano began, but Hawaii County Civil Defense officials have been allowing residents back into the subdivision to retrieve belongings and check on their homes.

    However, some residents have been returning to their homes in the evenings and sleeping there, which has become increasingly dangerous in areas where fissures are spewing lava.

    Kim’s proclamation, which is effective at noon today, covers the area east of Pomaikai Street, a description that includes more than half of the subdivision.

    The proclamation states that people who ignore the evacuation order and remain in the area east of Pomaikai “do so at their own risk with the knowledge that emergency responders may not respond.”

  193. 193.

    Aleta

    May 31, 2018 at 4:55 pm

    Boggles my mind (yet not surprising) that T whines about an apology to him. He who has never apologized for daily slurs, smears, defamation, insults.

    The rw complains about people whose company chose to keep them. Many of them had also apologized like Barr. (“That’s not equal rights!” the angerworms cry.) So who does T identify with?

    Not with people who apologize. Not with those who are still employed after throwing insults. Not with people who should apologize but don’t. And he can’t even shut up because of the Khans, McCain or all the rest. Where’s his apology, where’s his thank you, where’s his military parade, it’s unfair treatment all the way to the bank.

  194. 194.

    Immanentize

    May 31, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    @Mary G: I agree. They seem to be prepping the soil. And Trump is responding in panic. Other people know things we don’t.

  195. 195.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    @Mary G:

    Republican party is kinda taking a nap somewhere

    A dirt nap. May it be so.

  196. 196.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Yes, much better.

  197. 197.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    @TenguPhule: I have my limits, I didn’t pick up the baby rattler to get a good shot on my last hike.

  198. 198.

    JPL

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    Has anyone mentioned the new story at Axios about the number of contacts the AIC (asshole in chief) had with Sessions.

    Trump told Sessions he’d be a “hero” to conservatives if he did the “right thing” and took back control over the Russia investigation, according to two sources with knowledge of their conversations.
    Trump also told Sessions he’d be a hero if he investigated Hillary Clinton, according to one of the sources.
    Trump also repeated the “hero” line separately to aides and privately mused about whether it would be possible to limit the scope of the Mueller investigation to avoid his business affairs.

    https://www.axios.com/trump-pressure-sessions-mueller-investigation-30e0f930-e688-47da-8f20-411864cea471.html

  199. 199.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    Trump targeted Robert Iger on Twitter, saying: “Iger, where is my call of apology? You and ABC have offended millions of people, and they demand a response.”

    I can’t even…..

  200. 200.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Big Isle mayor signs mandatory evacuation order for section of Leilani Estates

    How many people does this affect? How large an area does this cover?

  201. 201.

    Steeplejack

    May 31, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    @Gin & Tonic, @LAO:

    Jesus Christ, here’s Kathy Griffin’s actual tweet thread.

  202. 202.

    Aleta

    May 31, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    @Immanentize: win

  203. 203.

    Aardvark Cheeselog

    May 31, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Kinda wish she hadn’t, but let that be an end to it. We’ve got more important shit to focus on, like the outrageous immigration policies Bee was discussing that led to FecklessCuntGate in the first place.

    I’ve always tended toward hostility to speech codes, yet I’m starting to think maybe I could live with rules against saying “fuck shit, asshole cunt!” if that also meant Trump would have to shut up until he has something to say that’s worth listening to. Or at least not hateful to real Americans.

  204. 204.

    Barbara

    May 31, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    I don’t actually find Samantha Bee to be funny or entertaining, or at least not enough to watch very much. There are two things I don’t like about what she did here. The first is using “c” as a slur, and the second is, holding the women in the family accountable for the horrible things being done by the men in the family. Asking for her intervention is at once blaming her for the awfulness and playing into the idea that she has or deserves power. Ivanka is an empty headed grifter whose “role” in the White House is to babysit her own father if he lets her. There are lots of reasons to hate her for her amoral grifting and for her effort to benefit from her relationship while trying to pretend she’s “better” than everyone around her. She’s not better, and it’s stupid for someone like Samantha Bee to keep acting as if she is or could be.

  205. 205.

    Calouste

    May 31, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    @Brachiator: Bee should have said “I’m sorry I called that vapid asshole a feckless cunt.”

  206. 206.

    MisterForkbeard

    May 31, 2018 at 5:01 pm

    I’m very late to this thread, but I think Bee:

    1. Shouldn’t have used the word ‘cunt’. Like a lot of other offensive words, it can be used in very limited (and usually private) contexts, but it’s a gendered word and super negative, and I don’t like it applied to women – even traitors to the gender like Ivanka.

    2. Did the right thing by apologizing. It’s an offensive word. It is NOT, however, anywhere near what Roseanne said. “Woman calls another woman a gendered insult for selling out women and others” isn’t remotely close to “I’ve revealed I’m a giant racist and conspiracy theorist”.

    3. Was right in not apologizing for the sentiment. Ivanka is absolutely guilty of the things Bee accused her of.

  207. 207.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 5:02 pm

    @Brachiator: About 4 square miles west, south west of the flows. No idea how many people are there now.

  208. 208.

    MisterForkbeard

    May 31, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    @Barbara:

    and the second is, holding the women in the family accountable for the horrible things being done by the men in the family

    The problem I have with this is that Ivanka markets herself as a moderating influence on her dad and as an administration official that represents women’s issues. It is absolutely appropriate to hold her to account for her father’s behavior in that context. She says she’s the one who intervenes, and asking her to intervene is entirely within bounds.

  209. 209.

    david

    May 31, 2018 at 5:05 pm

    [Edit: ah, forget it. This thread is going about as expected. Thank god it’s Friday.]

  210. 210.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    While we’re calling things names, let me just say that the most recent update of Firefox is the spawn of Satan herself. What garbage ass motherfucker thought this was a good outcome?

  211. 211.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @Immanentize:
    @Mary G:

    I hope that something really terrible happens to Trump, sooner rather than later, because, as you can see here, there is a limit to how much any of us can watch this shit, day after day after day.

    With the pardons, you can pick up a frenzy — both “in your face” and — more interestingly — “while I can.”

    I don’t even think this can go on until the midterms. It’s too much ugliness and tearing us apart, every single day.

    I realize how professional Team Mueller is, and how cautious to build a tight case, but they have to realize how badly Trump is chumming the waters ….

  212. 212.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @david: How’d you expect it to go?

  213. 213.

    Redshift

    May 31, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Apologies show weakness. Never apologize to a Republican.

    If you can speak only for yourself, sure, but I get that people who have TV shows aired by giant corporations don’t get to make that decision unfettered.

    That said, and understanding that an apology is not the place to explain why what you did is not in the same league with other bad things, it still bugs me that this slightly reinforces the thinking behind Trump’s demanding apologies from ABC (and many wingnut responses), which is that what happened is “Barr said a mean thing” and pretending it wasn’t a racist attack.

  214. 214.

    Barbara

    May 31, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: This is a dispute of degrees only. Like I said, Ivanka is an empty headed grifter. I really don’t think she has any moderating influence and the more incisive insult would have been to point out how little influence she actually has, in other words, to hit her where she might feel it. For all SB knows, Ivanka is trying to moderate what’s going on here and has no power to do so. Samantha Bee doesn’t appeal to me for a lot of reasons but I don’t find the bluntness of her put downs to be all that clever.

  215. 215.

    Tenar Arha

    May 31, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    @germy: Yes, that feckless fembot capo will skate on her white shiksa credit card while the national news media tells on itself by being more concerned about a single entertainment news story about a fucking word than on the death toll this mal-administration caused in Puerto Rico.

  216. 216.

    Steve in the ATL

    May 31, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Excellent Twitter thread

    Does not compute

  217. 217.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I realize how professional Team Mueller is, and how cautious to build a tight case, but they have to realize how badly Trump is chumming the waters ….

    Something needs to break through, and fairly soon. IMO

  218. 218.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 5:10 pm

    In order to preserve the dignity and decorum for which blog comment threads are so well-known, I’ve been holding back, but now I have to say it: the deadliest insult one can throw at a comedian — Samantha Bee’s remark wasn’t funny.

  219. 219.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    @Barbara:
    @MisterForkbeard:

    Excellent comments. Good point about holding women responsible for men’s actions (and where have we seen that before?) … although Ivanka set herself up for it.

    I wonder if Ivanka and Jared talk at night and wish the idiot father had never run. Maybe they’re corrupt enough to think they can beat this too. But maybe not … I wonder if they have lost some actual friends. It’s possible. It seems everyone else has, with Trump squatting in the Oval.

  220. 220.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    May 31, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    Nothing feels like a small story any more. It all comes across puffed up with hysteria and emotion. Maybe we feel it as part of one big story?

  221. 221.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 31, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I really wish English had better (i.e. more poetic, gentler) terms for genitalia, as many other languages in fact do.

    Of course, because they simply borrow the F-bomb when they need to get nasty.

  222. 222.

    TenguPhule

    May 31, 2018 at 5:15 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    While we’re calling things names, let me just say that the most recent update of Firefox is the spawn of Satan herself. What garbage ass motherfucker thought this was a good outcome?

    Which feature is it this time?

  223. 223.

    Tenar Arha

    May 31, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @germy:
    Addendum

    Yep, I just called Ivancruella feckless, a capo, a fembot, & a shiksa.

  224. 224.

    Steeplejack

    May 31, 2018 at 5:21 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Not from Hindi, that’s for sure. Try Old French and Latin.

  225. 225.

    Mandalay

    May 31, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I really wish English had better (i.e. more poetic, gentler) terms for genitalia, as many other languages in fact do.

    Jamaica has “pum pum” (pronounced “poom-poom”) which certainly sounds gentler and more poetic, but you still would not use it in polite society.

    In Argentina lovers may invent an affectionate term for the genitals of their partner. (Don’t ask me for actual examples.)

  226. 226.

    rikyrah

    May 31, 2018 at 5:23 pm

    @Mary G:

    Nope.

    He’s as GOP as GOP gets, Orange Julius

  227. 227.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    Another reason I don’t care about the Samantha Bee “controversy.” Fox News and the Official Trump Administration Propaganda Machine.

    Every one of Fox News’ primetime shows on Wednesday night did segments on Roseanne Barr and ABC’s cancellation of Roseanne. And every one of them — Tucker Carlson Tonight, Hannity, and The Ingraham Angle — tried to build a pro-Roseanne case. Sure, each of the hosts paid cursory lip service to condemning Roseanne’s racist tweets, but did so with such swiftness, you may have missed it. What they all dwelled on, at length, was the party line you can see now taking root on Fox News and in conservative media, which boils down to this: What about Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton/Obama/Jimmy Kimmel/Keith Olbermann/Joy Behar/Alec Baldwin/pick-your-least-favorite-liberal? Sean Hannity even attacked Wanda Sykes, a consulting producer for Roseanne and one of the first people to quit the show after Barr’s tweets….

    The argument laid out by Tucker Carlson, Hannity, and Laura Ingraham is that the real reason Roseanne got canned was because she was conservative — why else, they assert, do Kimmel, Behar, and Baldwin still have employment with ABC? But what are Behar’s and Baldwin’s sins that are comparable to Roseanne’s, you may ask? Easy, according to the nodding-head trio of Fox primetime hosts: Behar, Kimmel, Baldwin, and other celebrities disagree with President Trump’s policies, intensely. That’s essentially it: Fox News equates expressions of racism and anti-Semitism with instances of other celebrities being critical or mean about the president.

  228. 228.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 31, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    @TenguPhule: I missread that, Bee called Ivanka a C word not Melinia, but then, I am sure Donald Trump makes the same mistake too and confuses his daughter for his wife. Well Ivanaka is a C word; she’s never come across as anything more than life support for a reptile hind brain like the rest of the Trumps.

  229. 229.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    @Mandalay: Any actual examples?

  230. 230.

    zhena gogolia

    May 31, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    I assume she meant Indo-European.

  231. 231.

    Yutsano

    May 31, 2018 at 5:33 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I mean if one can trace the word union back to Proto-Indo-European root then sure but I don’t think linguists have gone that far with it.

  232. 232.

    MagdaInBlack

    May 31, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    I am not a fan of Ms Bee, and this was a stupid move. It is possible to entirely disembowel a person verbally without once being vulgar.

  233. 233.

    VeniceRiley

    May 31, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    @Brachiator: Well then, FOX can hire Roseanne and let her spew to her heart’s content. Oh, they don’t want to do that? Whatever.

    Poor, persecuted Republicans act. So tired of it.

    As for the C-word, Sally Field’s tweet wins the internet. Go look for it!

    I personally don’t use the word; but, I got a buck in change last week that says “Donald Trump is a C u n t!” on it.

  234. 234.

    Catherine D.

    May 31, 2018 at 5:43 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    I leave it to Stephen Sondheim:

    Immigrant goes to America,
    Many hellos in America;
    Nobody knows in America
    Puerto Rico’s in America!

    ETA circa 19-bloody-57

  235. 235.

    Amir Khalid

    May 31, 2018 at 5:44 pm

    @Tenar Arha:

    a shiksa

    Doesn’t converting make Ivanka an ex-shiksa?

  236. 236.

    KSinMA

    May 31, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    @encephalopath: And that’s reason #1,001 to avoid the mean names when you’ve got something better!

  237. 237.

    The Lodger

    May 31, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    @trollhattan: I remembered that sign, and how it illustrated the way the word is used in Britain. I just couldn’t search for it and post it at work.

  238. 238.

    jl

    May 31, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    ‘Feckless fraud’ would have been better.
    I hope nothing happens to Samantha Bee. She is a treasure.
    But, not much protection for an entertainer if they decide to get close to the line.

    My own opinion is that if we tolerate what Trump does, Barr (who may well be nuts), Maher, and Bee, all in their own ways, even Barr in the past, have contributed far more to society, and should get some consideration and understanding.

    So, yes that is a weak and feeble backhanded excuse for Barr. Blast away at me if you will. But… effit, compared to Trump? Yeah, I’ll put in a word for her.

    Barr seems to be going off the rails mentally and emotionally, so maybe firing was good so she can face her demons and get help with whatever is going on.

  239. 239.

    Poptartacus

    May 31, 2018 at 5:55 pm

    San bee is a dumb cu— oh sorry. I thought she was smarter then this nonsense.

  240. 240.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    @VeniceRiley:

    As for the C-word, Sally Field’s tweet wins the internet. Go look for it!

    Saw it and I approve that message!

    ETA: I think the Sally Field tweet is quoted in this thread, at #28.

  241. 241.

    Kathleen

    May 31, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    @germy: Didn’t he
    call Hillary a bitch?

  242. 242.

    Darkrose

    May 31, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    @Barbara: The reason she went after Ivanka was because of the picture she posted of her and her baby while people were calling out her father’s policies of ripping babies away from mothers who aren’t rich and white. Bee was hardly the first to point out how appallingly tone-deaf Ivanka’s Instagram post was in context.

    She shouldn’t have used the c-word. But I watched the episode, and what struck me is that she was fucking furious, and I can understand how she went too far. The unfortunate thing is that now the reason for her righteous anger is lost: the US government is tearing children away from their parents. I’m annoyed that now the focus is going to be the word used to describe a soulless, vapid, spoiled fuckwit who is complicit in evil, rather than the evil in question.

  243. 243.

    Brachiator

    May 31, 2018 at 6:05 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Doesn’t converting make Ivanka an ex-shiksa?

    A shiska-bob?

  244. 244.

    VeniceRiley

    May 31, 2018 at 6:07 pm

    @jl:

    ‘Feckless fraud’ would have been better.

    But then her follow on line that Ivanka should dress provocatively to get daddy’s attention and approval would not make sense. It was the whole bit, not just the c word. In any case, that was too far, even for a stupid criminal like Ivanka. All ephebophile & incest comments aimed directly at Donny Dollhands are fair game, IMO. There is evidence.

  245. 245.

    Darkrose

    May 31, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    @Elizabelle: She was specifically criticizing Ivanka for the tone-deaf Instagram post where she patted herself on the back for being a beautiful mother, even as her father’s administration —the one she has some undefined role in—is tearing other women’s children away from their mothers. Ivanka has chosen to take a public role as her father’s shill. She can absolutely be held responsible for enabling his evil.

  246. 246.

    Steeplejack

    May 31, 2018 at 6:15 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m on 60.0.1, and Firefox tells me it’s up to date. What don’t you like? I haven’t noticed any changes.

  247. 247.

    Elizabelle

    May 31, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    @Darkrose: Good point. Ivanka exists to enable.

  248. 248.

    Tenar Arha

    May 31, 2018 at 6:22 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Yes & it’s very nasty for me to call her that & impugn her conversion. Which is why I used it.

    I suppose it’s unfair w/o knowing her to say this, but she hasn’t internalized that she’s Jewish & that her children are Jewish, & that her & her own family’s actions are making Jewish people unsafe. And because she’s a beneficiary of so much white (& blonde) privilege a greater than largish percentage of American Jewish people are going to call her this & worse.

    ETA That obviously includes me. Honestly, compared to calling her a capo, essentially “a concentration camp guard drawn from within the prisoners themselves” is significantly worse.

  249. 249.

    john fremont

    May 31, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @Shalimar: Hmmm, a retired Army officer, Ralph Peters, referred to his Commander in Chief, Barack Obama, as a pussy. He was cheered by conservatives for telling it like it is.

  250. 250.

    Corner Stone

    May 31, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @Steeplejack: I am on 60.0.1 also. It’s performance based mainly. The interface looks the same as the last significant screw up update they did. I get that ping pong ball dancing whenever I am loading/refreshing a site and it’s not my wifi because I have tested with other platforms. It’s also a huge freaking memory hole. Open one tab and check Task Manager. You have two or three instances of FF. Open two tabs and you have 4 instances. I have to reboot to refresh my cache because the Restore Session opens back up at 3 instances of each over 250K of Mem Usage.
    Right now I have two FF tabs open and 5 FF instances in Task Mgr. They add up to, 190K, 200K, 225K, 180K, 33K.

  251. 251.

    jl

    May 31, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @VeniceRiley: Thanks for info. The youtube was yanked by the time I heard about the flap. all the flap I’ve read is about that one word.

  252. 252.

    Steeplejack

    May 31, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Thanks for the details. I’ll have to take a look under the hood.

    Did you manually neuterize the Connatix autoplay ad? Adblock Plus doesn’t get it automatically. Dunno about other ad blockers.

    ETA: I’ve got 59 tabs open (10 Balloon Juice), and Task Manager shows “Firefox (7),” taking about 50% of CPU and about 2.6 GB of RAM (I’ve got 8.0 GB in the machine).

    I’ve got two Word documents open, so “Microsoft Word (2),” taking about 5% CPU when I’m working on one and using 26 MB of RAM. Very small footprint.

    Will check again when I shed some of these open tabs.

  253. 253.

    hellslittlestangel

    May 31, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    @Corner Stone: Mine routinely racks up 16 GB of memory and 100% of CPU. The only reason I’m still using it is out of habit — oh, and it has passwords stored that I no longer remember. I’ve come to really hate Firefox.

  254. 254.

    jk

    May 31, 2018 at 7:14 pm

    Rebecca Traister nails it on the difference between Sam Bee and Roseanne:

    Language’s ability to inflict harm depends on power of who’s wielding it & against whom it’s being wielded. Not just individuals, ie, it’s not about Bee/Ivanka or Roseanne/Jarrett, all of whom have power. It’s about power of entities & ideas individuals are representing.

    So when Bee goes after Ivanka for supporting an administration that’s doing grievous harm to the bodies, families, lives of human beings, she’s acting on behalf of less powerful people (immigrants ripped from their children) against the grotesquely powerful & abusive.

    You can not like the word “cunt” for feminist reasons; you can–& should!–think about why a term for female anatomy is such a potent pejorative. But use of it in this context is not reinforcing or replicating the crude harm it has been used to inflict historically…

    ie the patriarchal diminishment & vilification of women. In fact, Bee is using it to critique a woman precisely because that woman is acting ON BEHALF OF THAT PATRIARCHY, one which systematically diminishes women, destroys families, hurts kids, especially non-white.

    It is fundamentally different from Roseanne comparing Jarrett to an ape, a racist locution w deep racist roots, bc unlike Bee’s deployment of c#nt AGAINST a misogynistic, racist administration, Roseanne’s racism is deployed IN SUPPORT OF a racist, misogynistic administration..

    that came to power in part on racist & misogynistic rhetoric that vilified & promised revenge against Obama administration of which Jarrett was a member & which is using the power it so gained to inflict real world racist & misogynistic harm on human beings.

    Therefore, Roseanne’s utterance mirrors & reinforces harm being inflicted by most powerful against least powerful, while Bee’s challenges that power dynamic.

    h/t https://twitter.com/rtraister/status/1002250986461810688

  255. 255.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    @rikyrah:

    HOW is it complicated?
    1500 died because of Katrina.
    OVER 4500 died because of Maria.
    It’s not complicated at all.

    Because it requires someone ot actually look things up and determine for themselves but the right will also try to obfuscate the whole thing with bullshit/gaslighting. The Samantha Bee thing doesn’t require any thought at all it’s a nice pure emotional reaction and gives them everyone a reason to pontificate.

  256. 256.

    Leto

    May 31, 2018 at 8:06 pm

    I feel like the people who are complaining about her saying, “cunt”, have literally never watched her show. Seriously, they’ve never watched her show.

    @Brachiator: All of this. It’s pretty damn simple.

  257. 257.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    @gene108:

    What we need to do is get at whoever owns TBS and demand she not be canceled

    Nobody on the left is going to care enough to do that. It’s just not that important to spend on one entertainer’s career. If she had owned that shit and stood up loud and proud then possibly the left would have stood up with her. But support completely got deflated once an “apology” or apology whatever you want to call it was made. Whoever was her agent is also fairly stupid too. They should have advised her properly. The right wants a scalp for payback and they are going to doggedly go after TBS.

    Her ass is grass. If she manages to stay, she’ll have to do some fast talking with management to make it happen. If they took a risk, they’ll be watching her ratings very carefully from here on in. EIther way, she’s going ot have to work her ass off.

  258. 258.

    cain

    May 31, 2018 at 8:15 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    How could they fire her?!? This wasn’t a tweet on her own time. It wasn’t a live broadcast. The network itself has a Standards and Practices division review all this stuff. And the network knew she said it as soon as she did (if not before if it was a scripted remark) and still let it be broadcast.

    I suspect it was green lighted because at the time of recording there was no Roseanne Barr debacle and so nobody thought it would be that big of a deal perhaps? But now it is, and the Right is ready to get a scalp. Someone probably should have looked into that before hand. I still think it was not worth calling the president’s daughter the C word. It’s really skating on thin ice with a group of assholes who will almost certainly take it to 1000 and blow shit up.

  259. 259.

    J R in WV

    May 31, 2018 at 10:17 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    can anyone provide a list of gender and race-neutral slurs that we can use to tell these animals to their faces how much we despise them that aren’t unacceptable because they perpetuate misogyny or bigotry?

    Yes:

    Despicable,
    Carrion vulture,
    nazi,
    fascist,
    bigoted,
    hateful,
    greedy,
    thoughtless,
    evil,
    ghoul,
    murderous,
    …

    I stop now before I break my verbal piece in my brain… but I think that’s a good start. So, anyone else wanna kick a few in?

  260. 260.

    J R in WV

    May 31, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @david:

    …Thank god it’s Friday.

    Nope. It’s Thursday… sorry. ;-)

  261. 261.

    RedDirtGirl

    May 31, 2018 at 11:34 pm

    Uncivil times call for uncivil tongues. I say, Have at it! I thought we were supposed to be the snowflakes, the PC police who monitor micro-aggressions.

  262. 262.

    Ken

    June 1, 2018 at 12:35 am

    We’re talking about Samantha Bee and not Donald Trump. Think about that from the perspective of Donald Trump.

  263. 263.

    Citizen Alan

    June 1, 2018 at 1:42 am

    @J R in WV:

    I’ve actually taken to using Anita Sarkeesian’s term for the various 4-chan howler monkeys: “garbage-humans.”

  264. 264.

    Ramalama

    June 1, 2018 at 11:20 am

    Well, I wrote an email to TBS yesterday, and told them how much I loved Sam Bee’s show, and how most Americans know the difference between what she did and what Roseanne did, and how context is key. And how they should NOT cancel her show because of Ivanka language.

    I received an email maybe 5 hours later from them reiterating Bee’s apology as well as their own, ending the email with “We greatly appreciate your feedback and perspective. TBS”

  265. 265.

    EthylEster

    June 1, 2018 at 2:11 pm

    @cain:

    She should have known better to make that remark just after that Roseanne debacle.

    She should have known better to make that remark. Period.
    This is just stupid. Leave family members out of this.

    And name calling is juvenile. Some people here are saying that what Bee did was OK. No thanks. Why give talking points to the right? Bee and Kathy Griffin are not advancing an effort to rally the masses against Trump. And that’s what needs to be happening now.

  266. 266.

    Ramalama

    June 1, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    @EthylEster:

    Bee and Kathy Griffin are not advancing an effort to rally the masses against Trump.

    They’re comedians.

  267. 267.

    NatashaWhilk

    June 2, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: “Cunny” is a (Middle/early modern English) affectionate diminutive form of the word we’re discussing, with no harsh connotations that I have ever seen. And in the literature (Shakespeare maybe, Chaucer I’m pretty sure, songs definitely) it’s often used to pun on “coney,” rabbit. I have been urging a revival.

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