Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When we show up, we win.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Republicans in disarray!

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Books are my comfort food!

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

This fight is for everything.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

The lights are all blinking red.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Repub Venality Open Thread: “If You Tell the Truth, You Don’t Have to Remember Anything”

Repub Venality Open Thread: “If You Tell the Truth, You Don’t Have to Remember Anything”

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Sam Clemens (quoted in the title of this post) was a skilled liar, aka “Professional Storyteller”; watching the current Oval Office Occupancy mangle the ancient forms would, IMO, cause him actual physical pain:

Reader Interactions

202Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    In the meantime, the never ending Witch Hunt, led by 13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats

    This particular lie of Trump never fails to piss me off.

    Every Republican who’s investigating Trump is labeled a Democrat. But we can’t get Democrats to investigate Republicans because its “partisanship”

    FUCK THESE ASSHOLES.

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    He won’t resign. No one will be able to convince him to do that. He either leaves at the end of his term or he somehow gets bounced out. The myocardial infarction is already failing me.

    @TenguPhule:

    But we can’t get Democrats to investigate Republicans because its “partisanship”

    Oh that better change once we get the Congress back. In fact I think a lot of 2020 jobs will hinge on the Democrats throwing civility to the wind and going after these mofos.

  3. 3.

    TenguPhule

    It’s Constitutional Infrastructure Week.

    Okay everyone, we can pack it up and go home for the day.

    Nobody’s gonna top this one.

  4. 4.

    Jerzy Russian

    I thought Jesus was going to take the wheel. Why isn’t Jesus at the wheel?

  5. 5.

    TenguPhule

    @Yutsano:

    He either leaves at the end of his term or he somehow gets bounced out.

    We will have to pry the White House from his cold dead fingers. He’s not gonna give it up otherwise.

  7. 7.

    TenguPhule

    @Yutsano:

    . In fact I think a lot of 2020 jobs will hinge on the Democrats throwing civility to the wind and going after these mofos.

    Just once I’d like to see our Democratic officials start being severely uncivil to Republicans.

    Remember, Dick Cheney got away with cursing at a Democratic Senator on the fucking floor, for fucks sake.

  8. 8.

    rp

    Greenwald just retweeted someone asking when the media will ask Clinton about the “very credible” Juanita Broaddrick rape claim.

  12. 12.

    Aleta

    That punk Pruitt remains a strong competitor in the Outrageous Theft-Bribe-Grift Triathlon. (Link goes to NYT.)

    A senior Environmental Protection Agency official acted essentially as the personal assistant to the administrator, Scott Pruitt, helping him hunt for an apartment, travel to a college football game and even try to procure a used mattress from the Trump International Hotel, congressional transcripts show.

    The House Oversight panel’s inquiry is one of a dozen ongoing federal investigations related to Mr. Pruitt’s first-class travel, $3.5 million spending on security, ties to lobbyists and other issues.

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    @rp: I have my own problems with Bill Clinton. But the media, and others, will never, ever release their two hand death grip off the Clenis.

  16. 16.

    Yutsano

    @TenguPhule:

    We will have to pry the White House from his cold dead fingers.

    This can be arranged.

    @TenguPhule:

    Just once I’d like to see our Democratic officials start being severely uncivil to Republicans.

    Civil or otherwise, I want the Republicans HOUNDED for their complete abdication of responsibility. Whoever is left in Congress needs to be dragged often for their lack of action against Dolt45.

    @Corner Stone:

    But what about Scalia?

    He still dead as a doornail and was replaced by a Chrstianist idiot. Hopefully that is enough to torture his soul for eternity.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    “If you can’t remember anything, then everything you say is the truth.”

  20. 20.

    kindness

    How any News organization (other than Fox) can report on the TrumpCo government without mentioning Trump’s dictatorship fetish is something I don’t understand.

  21. 21.

    Raoul

    I appreciate the @Susan_Hennessey tweet’s intent but she obviously has no idea how today’s press works (or doesn’t).

  22. 22.

    Wild Cat

    @rp: So he’s picking up Hitchens’ grift . . . good for another Amyista freedom fighter!

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    The Supreme Court on Monday dismissed a lower court’s decision that allowed an undocumented immigrant teenager to obtain an abortion over the protests of the Trump administration.

    The action, which came in an unsigned opinion without noted dissents, wipes out the lower court’s ruling as precedent.

    But attorneys for the teen said it does not immediately affect a court order in place that temporarily allows undocumented girls in federal custody to get abortions as a broader challenge to administration policy makes its way through the courts.

    The case centers on a Central American teenager, identified in court papers as Jane Doe, who was being held in a government-funded shelter last fall. She had been seeking an abortion since learning, shortly after she crossed the border, that she was pregnant. But the administration said it would not “facilitate” abortions for undocumented minors in federal custody.

    The five-page order issued Monday directs the lower courts to dismiss as moot the teen’s individual claim seeking access to abortion services. The girl was able to terminate her pregnancy before the high court got involved. She has since turned 18 and is no longer in federal custody.

  28. 28.

    Yutsano

    @TenguPhule: This is almost how Roe v Wade was decided. By the time the case had reached the court, Roe had already had the abortion. So unless the Supremes were in the mood to uproot the whole policy (spoiler: they weren’t) that’s not an unusual decision.

    It’s cowardly, but still not a surprise.

  29. 29.

    Mike in NC

    If Democrats retake the House in November they should fund the building of a very large gallows within sight of the Oval Office, just to get Fat Bastard’s attention.

  30. 30.

    MattF

    See, ‘honesty’ is simply outside Trump’s behavioral repertoire, outside his intellectual universe. I don’t think he has any idea what the word means. Saying Trump should be honest is like saying a duck should stop waddling and excreting duck shit.

  31. 31.

    TenguPhule

    Penny-pinching drinkers fuel higher-alcohol products in Japan

    Japanese brewers are discovering a new way to tap the lucrative market of working adults: Get them tipsy more quickly and efficiently.

    This domestic segment is becoming more important to beer makers Kirin Holdings Co. and Sapporo Holdings Co. as Japan’s famously aging population — the oldest in the world — drinks less. They have released canned drinks with up to 9 percent alcohol by volume, which is the highest it can be without being pushed into another tax bracket.

    Down with Beer, Up with higher alcohol content drinks that don’t taste like horse urine!

  33. 33.

    Aleta

    @Jerzy Russian: Jesus’s reflexes were set to donkey speed. Every time they force him to take the wheel he spins out, which really pisses his father off.

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    BREAKING: In Washington State insurers are requesting average premium increases of 19%. The insurance commissioner cites GOP sabotage.https://t.co/gySDyXs3mh pic.twitter.com/PEUAgRCOQg

    — Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) June 4, 2018

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    FYI for those in California that this applies to:

    My name is on the ballot for US Congress CA48. Do NOT vote for me!! (or Rachel Payne or @MichaelKotick.) We have all withdrawn from race, and Michael & I have endorsed @HarleyRouda https://t.co/jyTgD4jvNR

    — Laura Oatman (@Laura_Oatman) June 2, 2018

  38. 38.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @TenguPhule:

    We will have to pry the White House from his cold dead fingers. He’s not gonna give it up otherwise.

    If he loses the election, the Secret Service will toss him out on the street and there is not one god damn thing he can do about it.

  39. 39.

    Bobby Thomson

    From the perspective that Trump is the only sentient being on the planet (in other words, Trump’s perspective), I suppose it makes sense to base decisions on the fact that Trump’ s memory “changes” as convenient. Rudy’s statement is complete nonsense from any other perspective. It means authorities should never question anyone.

  40. 40.

    maya

    Someone close to trumpf should tell him that, contrary to what he may have heard, a self-pardon would Be Best disPensed in the Rose Garden. With mirrors.

  44. 44.

    Corner Stone

    @rikyrah: I wish I had known that was an FB link.
    Anyway, if it’s true it’s a little damned late and I hope someone is putting money into ads with these former candidates speaking and saying not to vote for them.

  45. 45.

    TenguPhule

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If he loses the election, the Secret Service will toss him out on the street and there is not one god damn thing he can do about it.

    At this point I would not put it past Trump to replace the head of the SS with a compliant minion.

  46. 46.

    Aleta

    Giulianni needs to be wired to an electroshock interruptor for these interviews.

  49. 49.

    TenguPhule

    @Aleta:

    Giulianni needs to be wired to an electroshock interruptor hydroelectric generator for these interviews.

    Improved.

  50. 50.

    Yutsano

    @germy: @maya: “Ah Jesús. I like him very much. But he no help with curveball.”

    “ARE YOU SAYING JESUS CHRIST CAN’T HIT A CURVEBALL?”

  51. 51.

    Ironbird

    @rp: I was just going to comment that the progression tweet forgot “but what about Hillary?” and Greenwald topped that already. Damn.

  53. 53.

    TenguPhule

    “You have an intellectual slugfest going on in the White House,” said Stephen Moore, the Heritage Foundation economist who advised Mr. Trump’s campaign.

    Light on the intellect, heavy on the slugs.

  56. 56.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Aleta:
    You posuer. He should be waterboa- I mean subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.

  61. 61.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    It’s only a matter of time before it’s Trump issues an executive order declaring himself the Once and Future President and all crimes Trump committed during the Carter, Reagan, GH Bush, Clinton, GW Bush and Obama administrations are protected by executive privilege because Trump was in fact the true president of the United state during those times.

  64. 64.

    TenguPhule

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: It has been pointed out on the Twitters that Trump’s argument leads to a legal theory where any crime Trump commits in DC is determined by Trump himself. Ergo, he could have opponents assassinated and pardon the assassins as long as they make sure to commit the crimes only in DC.

  66. 66.

    Yutsano

    @opiejeanne: Still one of the funniest baseball parodies out there. Not quite Bull Durham but still good.

    @Just One More Canuck: The only response I can think of is “LACES OUT DAN!!!”

    Fun fact: I went to college with one of his cousins. She thinks he’s an ass.

  67. 67.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Yutsano:
    That’s before Charlie Sheen lost his mind. I remember back in HS when his “winning” became a meme

  68. 68.

    Tokyokie

    Does anybody else find it odd that somebody who likely has never said, “Excuse me,” after any of the dozens of times a day he’s belched throughout his life claims he can pardon himself?

  70. 70.

    germy

    Jimmy Fallon gives his surprise commencement address to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School’s class of 2018:

    When you think of commencement speakers, you think of people who are inspirational, people who are eloquent, people who’ve changed the world. When you think of high school students, you think of people who are immature, slightly awkward, still learning to be an adult.

    Welcome to “Opposite Day.”

  75. 75.

    Bill Arnold

    @TenguPhule:

    It has been pointed out on the Twitters that Trump’s argument leads to a legal theory where any crime Trump commits in DC is determined by Trump himself. Ergo, he could have opponents assassinated and pardon the assassins as long as they make sure to commit the crimes only in DC.

    I would not count on reductio ad absurdum having the desired effect on our current Republicans. Better to find, and insert into the discourse, interpretations of the constitution limiting the POTUS’s power, IMO.

  77. 77.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Yutsano:
    Apparently Berenger was also in Gettysburg and Inception.

    Which reminds me, I’ll have to watch Inception again

  78. 78.

    MisterForkbeard

    @rp: I got an alert from Disqus this morning about (among other things) a “MELTDOWN: Clinton asked about Lewinsky and #MeToo” from Gateway Fucking Pundit of all things.

    They’re trying very, very hard to return to Clinton and they can’t let it go, despite the much more credible and recent accusations against Trump. I find it completely unsurprising that Greenwald is onboard with Gateway Pundit.

  80. 80.

    Mandalay

    @Yutsano:

    Way OT: Howard Schultz is quitting Starbucks.

    From the NYT:

    Asked directly if he was considering running for president, he said, “I intend to think about a range of options, and that could include public service. But I’m a long way from making any decisions about the future.”

    This is excellent news – a billionaire businessman with no political experience running for president!
    It would be a breath of fresh air!
    He could translate his CEO skills into running the country as a business!
    What could possibly go wrong?

  81. 81.

    Aleta

    A federal court has rejected the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s refusal to search for scientific information Administrator Scott Pruitt relied upon in claiming that human activity is not a “primary contributor” to climate change, according to a ruling upholding the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit brought by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). The agency must also produce any studies EPA possesses that support Pruitt’s stated skepticism of anthropogenic climate change by July 11.

    In a March 9, 2017 interview … Pruitt stated with respect to carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases created by human activity “I would not agree that it’s a primary contributor to the global warming that we see.” He added “there’s a tremendous disagreement about the degree of impact” of “human activity on the climate….” The next day PEER filed a FOIA request asking to see the studies upon which Pruitt based his claim and whether there are any EPA scientific studies that find human activity is not the largest factor driving global climate change.

    Not only did EPA fail to respond within the statutory deadline, but even after PEER filed suit to compel production the agency contended that it would not respond because the suit is “a trap” in the form of an improper “interrogation” and a “fishing expedition” to explore Pruitt’s “personal opinion.”

    In a June 1 ruling, Beryl Howell, Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, brushed aside EPA’s objections, calling them “a reach too far” and “not persuasive”, observing:

    “Particularly troubling is the apparent premise of this agency challenge to the FOIA request, namely: that the evidentiary basis for a policy or factual statement by an agency head, including about the scientific factors contributing to climate change, is inherently unknowable.”

    PEER website

  82. 82.

    JPL

    @Mandalay: If it were a choice between the current pres and Schultz, I’d vote for Schultz.
    Of course, Sanders would run as a third party insuring that we’d have the asshole for four more years.

  85. 85.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mandalay: To be fair, Starbucks IS an actual business. So it’s still a better fit than Trump, who essentially ran a small family organization and bribed some people in NY to overlook how he ran things.

    It’s a low bar.

  90. 90.

    germy

    People are still arguing about whether Bill Clinton should've resigned 20 years ago while a POTUS who has obstructed justice in an attempt to stop an investigation into whether or not he colluded with Russians to win an election tweets insane diatribes from the Oval Office.
    — Kara Calavera (@KaraCalavera) June 4, 2018

  92. 92.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Corner Stone:
    8.8/10 on Imdb, 86% on Rotten Tomatoes, and 74% on Metacritic. 828.3 million or so worldwide box office sales don’t lie.

  93. 93.

    Mnemosyne

    @MisterForkbeard:

    They’re trying very, very hard to return to Clinton and they can’t let it go, despite the much more credible and recent accusations against Trump.

    The more recent and credible accusations against Trump are exactly why they’re digging this up again. You can’t claim that both sides do it unless you have some kind of evidence on the other side.

  96. 96.

    Mandalay

    @JPL:

    Of course, Sanders would run as a third party insuring that we’d have the asshole for four more years

    Well there is this:

    “The American Dream can’t be only accessible to people of privilege who are white and live in the right zip code,” he said.

    Except that was said by Schwartz, not Sanders. I’m starting to like the cut of his jib already.

  98. 98.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Mandalay:
    Hey, if Lex Luthor could do it, so can Starbucks CEO.

    Dunkin Donuts has better coffee anyway

  99. 99.

    Shalimar

    @rp: Bill Clinton showed no empathy at all for Monica Lewinsky in the interview MSNBC has been airing today. If he gets argumentative over someone he admits got him off, he isn’t going to answer any Broaddrick questions. It seems pointless to ask him.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    I know no one wants to hear my handwringing over this, but the Trumpsters are flooding the zone.

    No one ever hears from anyone other than these people. It’s like a concerted propaganda blast and I don’t know what anyone can do about it. We’re being pelted with this stuff every day, over and over and it’s coming from the state. I don’t know that there’s any clearer definition of state-sponsored proganda than “government actors lying to the public constantly”

    Is there? I mean, that’s what this is, right? How would an official propaganda policy look any different than this?

  101. 101.

    trollhattan

    @rikyrah:
    If they do this LePage will make applicants apply in person at an arena where he will kick each in the crotch as part of the process. Paul LePage, Arpaio of the Far North ™.

  102. 102.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mnemosyne: No kidding. But if you’re going to talk about how both parties are bad, you shouldn’t talk about how one side had a president with a number of known fabricated graft/murder/rape accusations who left office popular but a political pariah, had his law license revoked, eventually apologized for his behavior… vs a Republican President who brags about sexual assault, has over a dozen credible accusers, has at least a couple that he’s notably lied about, attacks women’s rights, assaulted his wife, etc.

    It’s like they’re not even trying. If they’re going to both sides it, maybe they should find a current politician? I mean, if Both Sides, it shouldn’t be THAT hard.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    the organized dissemination of information, allegations, etc, to assist or damage the cause of a government

    Dead on, right? This is different than a political campaign. These people are in power. They’re using state apparatus to disseminate false information to the public. Over and over and over. Thousands of messages.

    That’s why the lying matters. Not because of “character” or “norms” but because it’s a totalitarian approach to government.

  105. 105.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:
    Gatekeepers are the newsroom/desk editors. They’re the only ones who can control the valves. I don’t know anybody who actually follows Trump’s Twitter account–they’re just repeated everywhere. Rudy should be deprived of cameras, completely.

    Starve the beast.

  106. 106.

    Shalimar

    @MisterForkbeard: It was one interview on a book tour with James Patterson, and Clinton handled the inevitable Lewinsky question as poorly as he possibly could. At the moment, it is a one day story.

  108. 108.

    Mandalay

    @MisterForkbeard: Point taken, and I have nothing against Schultz. If it became a choice between him, Biden or Sanders I’d take Schultz in a heartbeat.

    My concern about former CEOs who are currently in office is that they have never given any sign that they give the slightest fuck about their fellow man (Trump, Rick Scott, David Perdue), and are sociopaths. But unlike them, Schultz already has something of a track record in being a decent human being.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I suspect it’s because Trump and Clinton share an acquaintance who is a convicted pedophile and sex trafficker. Clinton was never invited to the guy’s parties that featured underage girls, but Trump was. They’re trying to pre-smear Clinton because those stories are starting to bubble to the top again.

  110. 110.

    lamh36

    @germy: speaking of HS graduation…I see the Parkland kids are going on a 60 city bus tour to talk Gun control and to register young voters!

    These kids are not playing…good for them

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    I went to lunch with a Dem organizer. She’s young. Uma. Nice energetic person, like they almost always are- so she did the VA governor’s race and I asked her “how did you handle the lying from the Trump Administration?” and she said they didn’t. No one knows how to handle it. They just focus on the candidate because if they tried to rebut all the lies they’d never get to their own candidate.

    I feel like I’m a fairly patient person and I cannot subject myself to it anymore. I completely get it if people check out. It’s horrible. What person in their right mind even wants to be a part of this?

  112. 112.

    trollhattan

    Keep an eye on Craig’s List, because you too can become an assistant U.S. attorney!

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions said on Monday the Justice Department was beefing up its fight against violent crime, drug use and illegal immigration by assigning 311 new prosecutors to work on the problems, the largest increase in decades.

    “The Department of Justice is going on offense against violent crime, illegal immigration and the opioid crisis – and today we are sending in reinforcements,” Sessions said in a statement.

    A spokesman for the Justice Department said the 311 assistant U.S. attorney posts were all new positions and had not yet been filled. Sessions said he had funded the effort by eliminating spending in other areas and reallocating the money to focus on the priority areas.

    “I have personally worked to repurpose existing funds to support this critical mission,” Sessions said in the statement released by the Justice Department. He said “exceptional and talented prosecutors” were the key to fighting crime, and the addition of 311 new assistant U.S. attorneys represented “the largest increase in decades.”

    It would be irresponsible to predict the result will be an organization similar to ICE, which went through similar rapid growth via new hires.

  113. 113.

    Just One More Canuck

    @jl: There’s a place in Hamilton (birthplace of Timmy’s) where you can see separate four Tim Hortons stores within a couple of hundred yards of each other

  114. 114.

    ruemara

    @Shalimar: Not saying she doesn’t deserve empathy, but to connect an admitted consensual relationship with sexual assault is more disrespectful because she was definitely an adult and definitely pursued him to the point that she was being reassigned to stop her pursuit. He did himself no favors with the all to normal for guys belief that just because she’s in the mid 20’s somehow it’s ok to gratify your ego with her. But it’s not the same.

    @lamh36: I’m worried as fuck for them.

  115. 115.

    JPL

    Has the kitchen staff been asked to keep sharp knives away from Melania? just askin

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    I don’t want to be overly egotistical when it comes to my state, but we have a big make-or-break primary election here in CA tomorrow that could guarantee that the Republicans will lose seats in the House. I wonder if that’s helping trigger the crazy right now.

  117. 117.

    MisterForkbeard

    @ruemara: I think we can all be honest and say that we’re not cool with someone in power having this kind of secret relationship with an intern – it’s irresponsible and opens both of them up to workplace bias accusations and ‘soft harassment’, as I think Monica has stated somewhat recently. That kind of relationship is inherently unequal due to the relative power of the parties, regardless of the willingness of said parties.

    That said, that’s a HUGE difference from “I often sexually assault women and they won’t stop me because I’m famous” Trump. One is ethically problematic and the other is insanely criminal. Clinton’s behavior isn’t really noteworthy 20 years later – it was already publicly hashed out at the time.

  118. 118.

    lamh36

    I swear, if/when I buy a house, Ima make sure that I get me a bathroom with a toilet like a throne…these damn apartment toilets are too damn low…makes me feel like a damn old lady with bad knees.

    Evening EJ.

    My post vacation weekend obligation is over at work. So I’ve finally got the 2 straight days off to “recuperate” from my Australia trip.

    Gonna spend the time catching up on sleep (after 2 weeks, my sleep pattern is all kinda fuq’ed up) and getting my vacation pictures together for a series of blog posts bout my trip.

  120. 120.

    JPL

    @Shalimar: Ken Starr did not find Juanita Broaddrick ‘s testimony credible. Believe me, he would have followed up, if there were an inkling of truth to her testimony.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    Susan Hennessey
    @Susan_Hennessey
    This is the part where the press needs to get every single congressional Republican—every last one—on the record about whether they believe the President can pardon himself (he can’t) and what, precisely, they will do if he attempts it.

    I actually like Susan Hennesssey although she’s a little rah-rah prosecutor for my taste, but they can get them on the record all they want.

    People will be like “I don’t know- I’m tired- can I go now?” :)

    Has she met this huge cadre of process voters? I never have.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @Shalimar: I saw that interview. Clinton wasn’t great, but the interviewer was trying hard to get him to say something scandalous. James Patterson had to intervene to tell him to stop.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    I love California so you’re not “egotistical”. It should just go ahead and be a prosperous small country as far as I can tell. I woulda bailed a long time ago if I were you :)

    I don’t want to alarm anyone but the federal government is working as hard as they can to convince the public that they are all-powerful and above the law. This IS a constitutional crisis. That’s what those are. They don’t all look exactly the same so it’s not like it’s gonna come labeled. They’re pretty unusual.
    ‘

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    I have to say, the absolutely guaranteed way to permanently turn the tide against guns would be for one of those kids to be murdered. So far, most of the pro-gun crowd seems to realize that and has stuck with just threats.

  128. 128.

    Mandalay

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Clinton’s behavior isn’t really noteworthy 20 years later – it was already publicly hashed out at the time.

    I have to disagree. His current lack of regret, his current non-apology, his current fence-sitting on the #metoo movement, and his current whining about leaving the White House in debt were odious.

    He may have been a good president, but I view him as a repulsive human being now, based on his behavior now, not 20 years ago. Sure he’s not as bad as Trump, but the bar for that is really low. But he’s still pretty nasty, and he’s inviting those unfair comparisons by choosing to stick his face in front of the camera. Fuck Clinton. I wish he’d just go away forever.

  129. 129.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Oh, but that’s hard. All of my outbursts in court have been inspired by liars.

    I’m telling you it is fucking hard going to beat them. They operate in a different world. She’s right, Uma, with her serene smile, but I couldn’t do it. It’s almost primal- you want to scream “they are LYING” and she’s right- then you’re off to the races and all you’re talking about is them.

    Can that be done? Can all these people just keep plugging away in this environment? What about voters? Won’t they just be exhausted and say “you know what, I want to just stream video and not get involved in this shit show”

  130. 130.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne: I was gonna say the same thing. If ANYTHING happened to ANY of those kids…NRA and their nuts can just give up the ghost…

  133. 133.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mandalay:

    Point by point:

    His current lack of regret

    It happened 20 years ago. How long is he supposed to keep expressing regret?

    his current non-apology

    It happened 20 years ago. How long is he supposed to continue to apologize, and to whom?

    his current fence-sitting on the #metoo movement

    This one, fair enough.

    his current whining about leaving the White House in debt

    He’s pointing out that, contrary to what his enemies claim, he did not profit off the presidency, unlike a certain current president.

    Seriously, the whole Lewinsky thing happened TWENTY YEARS AGO. How many more apologies does the guy have to make before you’ll finally accept one?

  135. 135.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I know, but it’s worse. They have choices. If this wasn’t your hobby would you subject yourself to this? All these horrible people?

    “Oh, good, another evening of Rudy Guiliani and clips of Donald Trump” Take a pass on that – you’ll be happier.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I have a lot of criticisms of our side, but one overarching one is that we contribute to the noise instead of giving people a solution to it.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    White House press secretary Sarah Sanders refuses to explain the false statement on the 2016 Trump Tower meeting

    Because of course she does. You can be the best cross-examiner in the world- the method falls apart when nothing happens when the witness LIES. This is the spokesperson for the state! She lies and the sun comes up the next day and then she does it again. She knows by now nothing happens. God, why would she stop?

    Produce a transcript, call witnesses, knock yourself out. Same thing happens the next day. For two solid years.

    Until we tackle the lying nothing else matters.

  141. 141.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    Like I said, I think the feds are in freakout mode because their days of controlling the House are numbered. They’re trying to distract people from voting and working against them, and they’re getting louder and louder about it the more they realize that it may not be working.

    Your organizer is right — the only option is to not engage with the liars, because they’ll just keep Gish galloping and generating more lies. All you can really do is call a lie a lie and then move on.

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Maybe it’s a young person’s game at this point. This is their new normal. They will learn to operate in a state propaganda environment because people learn to deal with all kinds of shit. Maybe she’s not harkening back to a time when it mattered if the President and his staff told bold, brazen lies daily. Just let that go. That’;s gone.

  143. 143.

    prostratedragon

    @TenguPhule: The last joke was told on a time-travel episode of Futurama, where it was casually noted that Jesus’s return had been xxxx years before.

  144. 144.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne:

    You can’t claim that both sides do it unless you have some kind of evidence on the other side.

    This has never stopped Republicans from doing so at any time whatsoever.

  145. 145.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mnemosyne:

    This one, fair enough.

    Disagree. He needs to stay as far away from this issue as possible. He can only do harm here.

  146. 146.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    No one ever hears from anyone other than these people. It’s like a concerted propaganda blast and I don’t know what anyone can do about it. We’re being pelted with this stuff every day, over and over and it’s coming from the state. I don’t know that there’s any clearer definition of state-sponsored proganda than “government actors lying to the public constantly”

    I assume at some point a camel starts breaking.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    But you have to both ignore the lie and then ignore the endless fights over the lie. How long have we been debating whether the Trump son lied about that Trump meeting? 2 years, right?

    I mean, I’m pretty sure this is settled. He lied. But it never “moves on”. They’re still asking her about it. I think she’s on answer #5.

  148. 148.

    Baud

    @Kay: That makes sense. Trying to recover what’s been lost is often not the best path forward.

  149. 149.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: @Kay: if young people, young Dems, can use social media et al to catapult the filter, as a famous idiot once said, good on’em. I’m bewildered by the power of it, by the concept of “YouTube stars”, but I am an old, even if I like to think of myself as a younger old.

    I mean, I’ve fallen for a few flakes and let’s say overly optimistic allies, like Louise Mensch and The Palmer Report, I think it was called, that guy on twitter who seems to get a lot of retweets because he calls himself “a leader of the Resistance”, or something. But it only took me a few instances of over-interpretation (or in the case of Mensch, flat-out nuttiness) to figure out they can’t be trusted.

  150. 150.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Kay: hmm Science when threw this with the Creationists. Just pick a lie and demand the lair explain themselves, over and over again.

  151. 151.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne:

    I have to say, the absolutely guaranteed way to permanently turn the tide against guns would be for one of those kids to be murdered.

    Sorry, not even that will turn the face of the NRA and friends from their chosen path.

  152. 152.

    Kay

    @TenguPhule:

    Oh, I hope so. But propaganda’s really effective, which is why governments use it. Breaking free of if it usually isn’t neat and tidy. The longer this goes on the bigger the reaction will have to be.

  154. 154.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    Voters checking out and getting distracted is what got us into this mess.

    Trump drives even the strongest of people into distraction because its the only way to remain sane.

  155. 155.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I actually have a lot of faith in their savviness in judging things like you tube. This the world they operate in. They had to get better at it. I don’t think the Trumpian social media campaign was directed to them- it was directed to older people.

  156. 156.

    Mandalay

    @Mnemosyne:

    Seriously, the whole Lewinsky thing happened TWENTY YEARS AGO. How many more apologies does the guy have to make before you’ll finally accept one?

    I no longer give a flying fuck about what he said and did 20 years ago. But I deeply care that he NOW chooses to put himself in front of a camera, continues to paint himself as the victim, and makes no concession that he could or should have behaved differently 20 years ago.

    It’s as though he has learned absolutely nothing from the experience while the world has changed for the better. I can’t imagine what mental gymnastics you must be going through to support both #metoo and Bill Clinton.

  157. 157.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Breaking free of if it usually isn’t neat and tidy. The longer this goes on the bigger the reaction will have to be.

    I suspect the fortunes of our current media and the GOP are tied together at this point.

    As above, so below.

  158. 158.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: Jon Favrreau (Obama speech writer and podcaster) told the story of meeting a friend of his now wife, college-educated woman in her early thirties, two time Obama voter, who asked him about I forget which crackpot HRC theory, because she saw it on Facebook. A combination of the power of social media and the unrelenting propaganda that preceded that phrase by (I think?) almost twenty years.

  159. 159.

    Kay

    @TenguPhule:

    I get rattled when I see things like the NYTimes printing the “leaked” Trump lawyer memo because that’s the tactic, right?

    They want a “debate” over whether the President is all-powerful. That’s why they gave them the memo.

  160. 160.

    TenguPhule

    @Mandalay:

    But I deeply care that he NOW chooses to put himself in front of a camera, continues to paint himself as the victim, and makes no concession that he could or should have behaved differently 20 years ago.

    Why? Nothing he could say would mean anything because everything would always be interpreted in the worst possible light by the media and his critics. He did his duty well enough and he fought a relatively good fight. He’s earned his right to say “Fuck you all” many times over.

  161. 161.

    Yutsano

    @trollhattan: He…he does know he has to run this by the Office of Personnel and Management and get the money for the hiring authority from Congress right? RIGHT?

  162. 162.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne: ” What I wouldn’t give for a Timmy’s maple glazed donut right about now! ”

    Shhh… you wanna get gitmo’d? Why don’t you like patriotic American food?

  164. 164.

    Kay

    The President, who is a pathological liar, says he’s above the law but don’t worry! He promises not to act on that.

    The liar says that. The same liar who told us again and again that he no intention of accepting election results in 2016, unless he won, then they were golden.

    Occasionally I find the change hard to deal with. You know. The new set of laws that were never passed but are somehow in effect.

  165. 165.

    debbie

    This fits pretty well in Venality:

    An aide to scandal-scarred EPA chief Scott Pruitt told House investigators that she ran personal tasks for the big-spending cabinet member — including trying to snare him a used mattress from President Trump’s DC hotel.

    Pruitt scheduler Millan Hupp’s revelation was included in testimony released by Democrats on the House oversight committee Monday.

    It was unclear what the former Oklahoma pol — already under fire for frittering away taxpayers’ dollars on first-class travel, round-the-clock security and a sitcom-like, $43,000 “Cone of Silence” private phone booth for his office — had planned for the presumably soiled mattress.

    But in a letter to GOP committee Chair Trey Gowdy, Democrats said Hupp carried out a multitude of personal errands for Pruitt.

    They included helping him land a below market rate rented room in a lobbyist’s condo, booking him a Rose Bowl trip so he and his family could see the Oklahoma Sooners play, and the discussions about getting the “Trump Home Luxury Plush Euro Pillow Top” mattress.

    How many times can one man violate ethics rules and remain on the job?

  166. 166.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    I get rattled when I see things like the NYTimes printing the “leaked” Trump lawyer memo because that’s the tactic, right?

    They want a “debate” over whether the President is all-powerful. That’s why they gave them the memo.

    Its been noticed. They’ve shifted from “nothing to see here” to “Fuck you, we can’t be held accountable” in 18 months.

    They are betting heavily on the inertia of the public to basically follow the laws, no matter how bad it gets, because that’s how its always been within living memory. While at the same time blatantly violating the laws with no consequences to themselves. Trump is teaching entire generations of American citizens that laws don’t matter, only power does. The poisonous crop he’s planted will fruit.

    When it breaks, its going to snowball fast.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    @Mandalay:

    Former President Clinton doesn’t have any power over the “metoo movement” or anything else. That’s why it doesn’t matter to me. What he says or doesn’t say doesn’t change a thing. He has one vote in NY and that’s all he’s got.

  169. 169.

    acallidryas

    Regarding the idea of the media asking all members of Congress what they think, Balloon Juice has done whip counts and call lists before. Any chance we could have one to have everyone calling in and getting a sheet of whether MoCs 1)think the President has absolute ability to pardon himself and evade the law, and 2) if they’ll actually act to protect the independence of the Mueller investigation?

    I’d help organize if need be.

  170. 170.

    debbie

    @Mandalay:

    I heard him interviewed with his co-author Patterson earlier today, and I didn’t hear a whole lot of victim martyrhood from him.

    ETA: When the interviewer asked about Monica, he said he wouldn’t discuss it and moved on. That was it.

  171. 171.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mandalay:

    But I deeply care that he NOW chooses to put himself in front of a camera, continues to paint himself as the victim, and makes no concession that he could or should have behaved differently 20 years ago.

    He apologized at the time. He apologized pretty continuously for about 10 years after that. And you’re pissed because he didn’t keep up on the apologies for the next 10 years?

    Again — at what point do you accept his multiple public apologies for his actions and move on? Why do you keep insisting on a fresh apology every time he appears in public twenty (20) years later?

    There is no human on earth who will continue apologizing 20 years after their offense if their apology is never accepted. None. At some point we need to move on.

  172. 172.

    sukabi

    @Kay: perhaps the way to “move on” is to convince the folks that decide every. fucking. day. to frame the issues a certain way that we are tired of hearing the same old crap rehashed by the same old people.

    Bombard the “news personalities” with a series of questions and topics that actually matter. Let them know that revisiting Bill Clinton’s wandering p3n!$ has no bearing on drumpf’s sexually assaulting women, his banging a p0rn star or 2, and certainly not his enriching himself and his family at the expense of national security. Nor does it have any bearing on his undercutting the constitution, and his many attempts at undermining the current investigatin.

  174. 174.

    Luthe

    @trollhattan: How much you want to bet, “eliminating spending in other areas” means “defunding the Civil Rights Division and the COPS program”?

  175. 175.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    They want a “debate” over whether the President is all-powerful. That’s why they gave them the memo.

    I am glad the word “debate” is in quotes. Because that may be what they want being talked about, but there is no one debating the idea that Trump has King like powers. Where is anyone who could stop him? Why aren’t they already sticking a finger in his face ala Bernie-style and saying this far and no further, you fucking goon!

  176. 176.

    Kay

    @TenguPhule:

    I don’t like surprises- that’s why I worst case. I don’t think I’m an alarmist though and this seems…alarming to me. Like we will have to pay for this. Because if there is no price than what was the point? What was the point of telling people they had to be truthful or bad things would happen to them? As it turns out- not. Nothing happens.

    So in a sense I’m betting there IS a price, it’s just that these people won’t be paying it. We will.

  177. 177.

    Scuffletuffle

    @Kay: can we turn the conversation around by asking people if they really want to live in the world that Trumpers envision?

  178. 178.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yutsano:

    I’m sure Sessions can just waive that requirement, right? ??

    Though it sounds more like he’s going to take positions that are currently open, re-assign them to new departments, and hire that way. But I freely admit I have no idea how OPM works and if that’s even a valid workaround.

  179. 179.

    Corner Stone

    @debbie:

    ETA: When the interviewer asked about Monica, he said he wouldn’t discuss it and moved on. That was it.

    Interviewer Craig Melvin wanted some residual DNA on his pants leg and kept pushing to try and get it. I thought Andrea Mitchell was going to burst into orgasm when she talked to Craig about.
    I think if WJC dropped dead one day maybe half of the media would spontaneously fall down dead as well. Their hate for the Clenis is all that is sustaining their evil, useless hearts.

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    Because Clinton Rules, my friend. Bill and Hillary Clinton always have to meet a standard that no one else ever does, for reasons.

    That’s why Wilmer was able to attack Hillary using stuff he found in her publicly released tax returns while refusing to release his own returns. Clinton Rules.

  181. 181.

    TenguPhule

    @Scuffletuffle:

    can we turn the conversation around by asking people if they really want to live in the world that Trumpers envision?

    There’s an old saying about sparrows and curtain rods….

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Corner Stone: They love it they hate it, they love it they hate it hate it love it love it hate it…. Oh look, Chris Matthews is on my TV. Timing is everything.

    /click/

  183. 183.

    randy khan

    @trollhattan:

    Considering the employment situation for lawyers, 311 is a drop in the bucket. And, of course, they’ll be hiring all the best people.

  184. 184.

    Yutsano

    @Mnemosyne: Eh yes and no. Federal budgeting is REALLY complicated. There is some flexibility within departments to reassign some pockets of money here and there, but unless Congress specifically says the money is flexible it has to go for that budget option. And Congress very rarely makes that an option. So Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III will have to go to Congress to get a supplemental budget and then get OPM to get the hiring process started.

  185. 185.

    debbie

    @Corner Stone:

    The interview I heard was on NPR. The interviewer didn’t press and didn’t try asking the same question in a different way. It was very refreshing, to be honest.

  187. 187.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    So in a sense I’m betting there IS a price, it’s just that these people won’t be paying it. We will.

    I look at post invasion Iraq and I can see us heading there with increased speed.

    The Federal Civil Service is pretty much the last stand. Should at any point the GOP succeed in crippling the union and the civil protections which have kept it insulated from the worst partisan demands of the appointees, that’s all she wrote. There are no more safety nets.

  188. 188.

    Corner Stone

    @debbie: Ah. I was “pleased” to see blurbs off MSNBC. A completely different experience and outcome.

  189. 189.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yutsano:

    So, if I’m hearing you right, Sessions is totally promising to build a wall at the Justice Department, and Mexico will pay for it.

    This ploy has “fundraising letter” written all over it. ?

  191. 191.

    BoDiddleySquat

    @AliceBlue:

    “a used mattress from the Trump International Hotel…” Eeww.

    Oh, it’s not for his FUTURE use, it’s to hide evidence of his PREVIOUS use. What, you don’t think the over-paid gopher was looking for a RANDOM used mattress, do you?

  192. 192.

    BoDiddleySquat

    @germy:

    People are still arguing about whether Bill Clinton…

    No, the press is still arguing about…something. But they’re not people. Definitely, they are not people.

  193. 193.

    BoDiddleySquat

    @Kay:

    How would an official propaganda policy look any different than this?

    No doubt the press isn’t reporting this yet because they’re waiting for the propagandists to dress and speak more like Goebbels. Which is ta sadz for Miller, because he really thought it got it just right this time.

  195. 195.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:
    He will remain on the job for as long as his boss thinks that ethics have no place in his WH. And I doubt that is going to change with the doofus in charge. I doubt that if you offered drumpf 100 or 500 million dollars, he couldn’t reasonably define ethics. Because ethics to him is whatever he can get away with. So far that’s a lot of unethical.

  196. 196.

    Chet Murthy

    @Yutsano:

    a lot of 2020 jobs will hinge on the Democrats throwing civility to the wind

    Oh HELL yes. Hell yes.

  198. 198.

    Corner Stone

    @Chet Murthy: Looks like you fucked your edit up. It always seemed to me they had one hand gripping his dick and the other choking his neck.

  201. 201.

    Shalimar

    @ruemara: I don’t mean empathy over the affair itself. What I meant was that he goes on about how much he suffered and recovered without showing any interest in what has happened to Lewinsky since. It dramatically altered the course of her life. Interning in the Clinton White House and knowing Bill Clinton is by far the worst thing that ever happened to her, and she still never became part of the impeachment push. To this day, he shows no gratitude for that and seems to blame her as part of the groups out to get him. Matter of opinion, but I think he would have been removed from office if Lewinsky had actively testified against him. She didn’t, and he served out his second term.

  202. 202.

    Shalimar

    @Mnemosyne: It is way past time to move on, and Bill Clinton is right that he has suffered far more negative consequences than anyone else in that situation ever has. That said, it was brought up in the context of Monica Lewinsky’s op-ed a few months ago, and that was new news. And I thought it was obvious that Clinton still blames her in part for what happened. There was no remorse, regardless of how many insincere apologies he has issued.

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