How dumb and embarrassing is Trump? Via CNN:
President Donald Trump and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had a testy phone call on May 25 over new tariffs imposed by the Trump administration targeting steel and aluminum imports coming from Canada, including one moment during the conversation in which Trump made an erroneous historical reference, sources familiar with the discussion told CNN.
According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a “national security” issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, “Didn’t you guys burn down the White House?” referring to the War of 1812.
The problem with Trump’s comments to Trudeau is that British troops burned down the White House during the War of 1812. Historians note the British attack on Washington was in retaliation for the American attack on York, Ontario, in territory that eventually became Canada, which was then a British colony.
I don’t think we’ll ever recover from the shame of allowing this idiot to be installed in the White House. And his strategy for the upcoming G-7 summit in Canada is to go full ignorant Fox News rage grandpa. WaPo:
President Trump plans to confront other world leaders at a summit in Quebec on Friday over what he believes is a global economic system tilted against the United States, several people briefed on the plan said, escalating tensions with U.S. allies who have expressed outrage at his pivot toward protectionism.
Let’s see, he could scold summit host Canada again for burning down the White House, denounce Italy for inflicting sushi on the world, upbraid France for flooding the US market with affordable cars, censure Germany for bombing Pearl Harbor, criticize Japan for the Holocaust and attack the United Kingdom for stealing America’s native tongue.
Open thread!
Corner Stone
Ragey Rantin Grandpa is going to be lit!
Corner Stone
I wonder if they can put him in a room with toddler toys, and go about conducting business without him trying to push people out of the way so he can mug for the cameras?
He’ll have that stupid, childish, blatantly defensive arms crossed pose thing going the whole time. I know they can’t, but I just wish these leaders would go on record like that mom from Texas did when she said talking to Trump was like “talking to a toddler”. This has to be said, and repeated.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
looks like something might be brewing…
FoxNews Liaison says “just wait”? Intriguing. Maybe it’s the Ivanka thing.
JPL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ivanka’s the first lady?
Maggie teased that a story was written, but that was morning, and nothing yet.
Trump knows more history than all of us, and he could write books on history.
Shell
Even Double FacePalm isn’t enough anymore.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What happened? Did the Media have sex with a porn star weeks after Melania gave birth and then they were forced to pay her hush money? Or did the media have to pay a $1.6M settlement to a different woman for an alleged termination of a pregnancy?
MattF
There’s this concept that ‘history’ is a narrative of events that actually happened. Trump can’t be expected to understand that.
TenguPhule
Its official. We’re all dead and this is hell.
Jim Parish
In fairness, Canadians of my acquaintance do, occasionally, boast of having been the ones who burned the White House. (This is usually in playful response to some expression of USAn exceptionalism.)
rikyrah
THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O’DONNELL 6/5/18
United Nations: U.S. is violating human rights
As the President was lip-synching the National Anthem at an event supposedly about the National Anthem and football, the United Nations asserted that US is violating human rights by separating children from parents at the border. Maria Teresa Kumar joins Lawrence.
Odin
@TenguPhule: We just to wait for Marty to fix the timeline, obviously.
ruemara
He will go away. The shame & distrust us electing or allowing him to be elected – that won’t go away for a generation or two. It’s not like the Phillipines. We’re supposed to the example of a good democracy. Flawed but participatory and moving towards good. This is the most deserved L possible. Barring what happens to traitors.
Eternal rant re: BJ – The video ads need to go. They autoplay, you can’t turn some of them off and it took 4 minutes for the page to stop loading.
HRA
Yes, Trump is that stupid. Either yesterday or the day before I read where he discussed the Constitution with Putin and said the Russian constitution is better.
TenguPhule
Our Veterans are so fucked.
The Dangerman
@Corner Stone:
FTFY. We want him maximally distracted.
rikyrah
During the campaign, Ivanka Trump connected Michael Cohen with a Russian athlete who offered to introduce Trump to Putin to facilitate a Trump Tower Moscow, according to emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News and four sources. https://t.co/n81Sq1coxH
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 6, 2018
David Evans
He would find some takers for that. Everyone knows that the Brits talk funny.
Stan
Dear Canada: Please burn the white house again. or for the first time. Just do it ;)
gene108
Finally, a President who gets it!!!!! What need is revenge for our loss in the War of 1812!!!! A long festering sore on the soul of America finally being lanced!!!!
God Bless Donald Trump!!!!
And if God Bless Donald Trump were a song, he might actually learn the words to it.
Elizabelle
With all due respect, you should save OMFG for something serious. This one is just: illiterate man with no interest in history being illiterate man.
Have no idea what he’s wailing about WRT Melania. And I think it would be awful to pardon the Malheur Snack Team Six jackasses, because it does open a war with federal lands management in the west. Although: it could be a good election issue for Democrats, who support public parks and lands and are — maybe — less likely to be deadbeat ranchers. Who knows?
sdhays
@ruemara: I saw a post from John yesterday saying to email him about video ads.
Brachiator
Listen. Trump knows how to hold a grudge! Just because it’s stupid and historically incorrect is…well. OK. Dumb as fuck.
Fox News will blame Trudeau for being Canadian and making Trump look stupid again.
TenguPhule
@Stan:
Please make sure Trump, his family, his political appointees, his nominated judges, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are all boarded up inside first. Much Obliged, Canada.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108: I thought he is God, so doesn’t need any blessings of a so called God.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
When its serious it will be “Jesus Wept.”
Ridnik Chrome
President John Blutarsky.
JPL
Trump hires only the best people
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1004412724439343105
LAO
While I understand that the number of people self-identifying as Republican is shrinking, how in the hell does Trump have an 89% approval rating among republicans?
(I’m quite sure a number of you will chime in with the answer “racism”, so perhaps its a rhetorical question.)
Jeffro
@Stan:
I see TP at #23 beat me to it. The rest of y’all are thinking it too, admit it.
Still outraged that Don Jr hasn’t already been indicted, tried, convicted, and met his maker for the crime of soliciting aid from a hostile foreign power against his own country. Jared too.
Corner Stone
@JPL: It’s almost as if…Rudy is a complete blithering moron…or the admin really is trying to sink this Summit….or both.
Brachiator
@gene108:
It’s funny how many people think we won this war.
TenguPhule
@JPL: Oh sure, taunt the dictator who has a history of using chemical weapons to assassinate people he doesn’t like. What could possibly go wrong?
NobodySpecial
Stephen Nix just got done testifying in front of the Brits today about the Cambridge Analytica story. He claims they did nothing wrong and that ebil liberals and the Guardian and the whistleblower were all to blame for wrecking his business. Also, he changed a bunch of stories from the LAST time he sat in front of the Brits.
Lying pustules. Hopefully they stick him under the Tower.
schrodingers_cat
@LAO: People who still identify as Rs love T. I bet the # of people who approve of him has actually gone down. I wonder how many people does that 89% represent. As in 89% of what #? A large percentage of a small number is still a small number.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
What do you mean if?
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Goddamn, almost every day I am reminded of something that would have been a defining gaffe/scandal in any other administration but in Trump world it’s not even “Oh, that was last week/last month,” it’s “I completely forgot about that.”
Doug R
On sale at Costco in Canada this week: Automatic Dishwasher Detergent, Coffee and Mayonnaise-ALL on Trudeau’s tariff list.
Canadian prepping.
Here’s the list, eh:
https://www.fin.gc.ca/activty/consult/cacsap-cmpcaa-eng.asp
TenguPhule
@Jeffro:
I’m torn between having the American justice system do its work or just handing them over to the Russians at this point.
boatboy_srq
@Corner Stone: And what adult would they put in the US’ seat in his place? There’s none in the entire maladministration not somehow fascist or Dominionist or otherwise unfit to play placeholder.
TenguPhule
@Doug R: Mexico already kicked off their tariffs, I expect Canada’s to be implemented soon.
MattF
@JPL:@Corner Stone: One supposes that this is what Rudolf ‘Genius Diplomat’ Giuliani is telling Trump. Or, possibly, Rudy is offering hints to the Koreans about how to get what you want from Trump.
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack: It was only a year ago. It feels like ten.
sdhays
@JPL: So, first it was Bolton shooting his mouth off that derailed the summit, now Ghouliani’s giving it a try?
ETA: And why is the Preznit’s “personal lawyer” discussing North Korea? (rhetorical question)
dexwood
@Jeffro:
Actually, I was thinking please, Canada, lock him up for crimes against humanity while you have an opportunity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
gonna take a stab at amateur lawyering and guess Meuller is making that case as bullet-proof as possible, which he would do even if it were a normal pol’s immediate family member, a senator or governor.
boatboy_srq
@TenguPhule: Ignoring for the moment how thoroughly any country that would take these cretins in would be fvcked as a result, wouldn’t Russia actually treat them comparatively well?
TenguPhule
Finally some good news!
Joyce H
I think Trump is calling these tariffs a national security issue because he has to in order to be able to do it without Congress buying in. And of course Congress isn’t going to buy in because they know they’re stupid and counterproductive. So he has to come up with some lame-ass rationalization for why these tariffs are national security issues.
Justin Trudeau says that the Americans are not their enemies. Instead of imposing reciprocal tariffs, the Canadian government should impose sanctions on the Trump Organization. That’s what we do to Russian oligarchs when we want to hit the Russian government in a way they’ll notice. So do it, Canada, sanction the American oligarch.
Mnemosyne
Some small good news on a personal front: everyone’s good wishes worked, and I’ll only need one knee surgery to repair my ACL. Yay!
Bad news is, they have no idea when it can be scheduled. First we have to wait 3-4 weeks for my insurance company to approve it, and then the surgeon only does a few ACL revision surgeries a month because it’s more time-consuming than regular surgery. So, more waiting.
TenguPhule
@boatboy_srq: Russia’s retirement plan is a real killer.
LAO
@schrodingers_cat: I agree, the number of people identifying as Republicans has shrunk, but I haven’t seen an estimate of how many there are currently.
JPL
@Doug R: Fun times!
I thought Trump would bow out of the G-7, but it appears that he decided to go and embarrass once again.
boatboy_srq
@NobodySpecial: There’s an accessible oubliette at Pevensey Castle (yes, “where?” is right, and exactly the point). They can drop Nix there and let him whine for scraps from tourists.
eemom
Since it’s an open thread, I will take this opportunity to thank you for always posting insightful, brilliantly written and ORIGINAL commentary that is a delight to read regardless of how godawful the subject is.
It’s particularly refreshing in these days of endless and increasingly incomprehensible strings of tweets posted by FP folks who have been pirating the work of others on this blog since long before twitter was a thing. But at least you could READ the fucking posts back then. Maybe that’s why the site gets fucked all the time.
TenguPhule
@Joyce H:
Trump is the symptom. American Republicans are the disease. Beatings must commence.
Gemina13
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Check out Joe Scarborough’s response to this tweet. I can still smell the tanner burning.
Just One More Canuck
But what about the Fenian Raids?
Steeplejack
@TenguPhule:
Don’t know the source (thanks for no link!), but I read somewhere that the programs are not very good because they are advancing the “privatize the V.A.” drive.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: When the apocalypse comes, I promise not to use “Open Thread” in the title.
TenguPhule
EU to impose tariffs on US imports from July
Mexico, Canada, EU, China. That only leaves Japan and South Korea as the last countries that haven’t started tariff actions against us in retaliation yet.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: And there goes the summit…
Doug R
@Jim Parish:
Since they were British troops stationed in what would become Canada, I only consider trump half wrong which is half as wrong as usual.
Corner Stone
@boatboy_srq: I hear Betsy DeVos has some time after skipping her own meetings on school safety reforms.
Joyce H
@sdhays:
I knooow! Kim almost HAS to cancel the summit now, just to prove that assertion wrong. And the thing is, I think Trump really wants this summit, this isn’t a plan by the administration to derail the thing. Giuliani just can’t help saying stupid things that blow up in his face.
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack: Wapo breaking headline.
jl
Machias Seal Island or Die!
List of areas disputed by Canada and the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_areas_disputed_by_Canada_and_the_United_States
We also got a raw deal in the War of Jenkins’ Ear, and need to do something about Spain!
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
I’d rather the empty stool negotiate on our behalf.
BoDiddleySquat
@ruemara:
Hear! Hear! Harumph!
Those ads drive me crazy.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
I’ve got money I’ll put down on it being titled, “Anyhoo…”
James Powell
@LAO:
Because if whatever he does pisses off or insults the people they hate, then they are in favor of it. They have no other gauge by which to judge political events.
JPL
This is not surprising, but it is wrong.
https://www.apnews.com/c12e629d738842cfb654902a1e105cb6?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics
david
They been holding a grudge against “the North” for 150+ years, why not hold a grudge against Canada for 200 years?
BoDiddleySquat
@Brachiator:
Heck, the British don’t even consider it a war.
Steeplejack
@LAO:
These polls really need to start showing some hard numbers for comparison, e.g., “Trump’s approval is 89% among GOP voters—but the number of self-identified GOP voters has shrunk by [number/percentage] since the last poll.”
TenguPhule
Muslim groups will be absent as Donald Trump hosts Iftar dinner
I’m just gonna take a wild guess but I think the guests are going to be white and bible humpers.
Doug R
@LAO:
Because only trump supporters are willing to admit they are Republicans. I would love to see some raw data as to how many drop offs there are every month.
…..and RACISM.
LAO
@Steeplejack: I agree, that would be helpful.
stinger
@Mnemosyne: That is good news. (At least the first part is.)
Shell
How about on top of the Tower with the crows? Im not talking about beheading; he can just keep them company for a while.
Doug R
@TenguPhule:
Scheduled to take effect July 1, 2018- CANADA Day.
MattF
@TenguPhule: Hard to see how this event could actually take place. But we shall see.
Barbara
@Doug R: Party identification is notoriously fluid. Most pollsters avoid trying to poll it directly. It’s better to look at general polls on favorability and support, because doing it by party doesn’t capture the degree to which people who don’t support Trump will not identify themselves as Republican even if they have in the past.
JPL
@TenguPhule: It will probably be attended by those fortunate enough to have winning numbers, at yesterday’s farce.
The Moar You Know
@Joyce H: He does. Badly. He wants that fucking Nobel that Obama’s got – which he will never get even if he single-handedly saves the earth from a giant meteor, because he’s justly earned the raw hatred of almost everyone on the planet.
The flying monkey brigade he has chosen to surround himself with absolutely do not want the summit, especially Bolton. Some of them for ideological reasons, most because they’re trying to keep Trump as handicapped as possible lest he accidentally do something good for America. So he’s going to learn a lesson about vetting hires the hard way, a lesson that in the end he will fail to learn and it will happen again and again.
Mnemosyne
@BoDiddleySquat:
Yeah, it was kind of, We kicked Napoleon to Elba, let’s take care of this American annoyance.
It was a much bigger deal to the Americans, obvs. We probably wouldn’t have had Andrew Jackson as a president if he had not won the (ultimately pointless) Battle of New Orleans.
Gelfling 545
@schrodingers_cat: Well, he told the Evangelicals that he had never confessed his sins to God because he hadn’t done anything wrong so above the laws of both man and God. And yes, they still do support him hoping for their delusional Armageddon.
Highway Rob
@Brachiator:
SHUT UP! We didn’t lose the War of 1812. It was a tie! –Otto
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Odin:
Nope Trumpy boy shot and killed Doc and Marty on the roof of Trump tower. The best we can hope for now is the universe destroying itself because of a paradox.
No Drought No More
Digby introduces Heather, whose remarks I have taken the liberty to elaborate upon: “State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert on Tuesday cited the D-Day invasion during an answer about the current state of US-German relations…. “We have a very strong relationship with the government of Germany,” Nauert said. “Looking back in the history books, today is the 71st anniversary of the speech that announced the Marshall Plan. Tomorrow is the anniversary of the D-Day invasion. [Americans well remember, too, Hessian mercenaries, the Lusitania, the Zimmerman telegram, the good ship Rueben James, the massacre at Malmedy]. We obviously have a very long history with the government of Germany, and we have a strong relationship with the government of Germany. [Now we want to subvert and/or overthrow it entirely. What’s the big deal? And what’s all this noise about tossing our man in Berlin out on his ear?].
Origuy
@Mnemosyne: Good luck with the insurance and the surgery. The fewer surgeries, the better. I had a partial medial meniscectomy on Friday. Arthroscopic, a quick operation. I’m walking reasonably normally with no pain and was cleared to drive yesterday.
MattF
@The Moar You Know: ‘Vetting hires’ is not part of Trump’s behavioral repertoire. The only test is what happens when Trump says ‘Jump’.
Mike in NC
This nugget of nonsense must have been planted by Gorka or Miller or any of a number of dingbats who have unrestricted access to the Fat Bastard.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@LAO:
Is that 86% percent approval for the GOP or disapproval?
jl
@MattF: Be fair. Trump does check that they look good on TV. Do they look like what ‘central casting’ would send for a TV show. Lot’s of work goes into that.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
The Universe divided by zero and got Donald Trump as the answer.
jl
@Mike in NC: I have to wonder whether Trudeau mentioned to Trump that the US tried to invade Canada several times during the War of 1812.
chopper
@Brachiator:
exactly, ignoring the historical inaccuracy, bringing up 1812 to assert national security concerns with a country is just moronic. so are japan and germany dangers to our national security? FFS.
MattF
@jl: Maybe, but then the Mustache wouldn’t have been hired. He must have jumped really high, though.
jl
@chopper: Canada is a hostile power because they shot back when we tried to invade them during the War of 1812? How about that? Works, right?
rikyrah
@Mnemosyne:
Glad you got positive news :)
Joyce H
@The Moar You Know:
Do you think then that Giuliani was deliberately tanking the summit? I don’t. That’s too deliberate and thought-through for the Giuliani we’re seeing today. He seems to have become a total gasbag, infatuated with the sound of his own voice and willing to say anything in order to be asked back to talk some more.
TenguPhule
@Joyce H:
Seems?
TenguPhule
@chopper:
Donald Trump says yes.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Gemina13:
MattF
@Joyce H: My guess is Rudy’s trying out for the role of Groveler-in-Chief. If that means tanking the Korean summit, then, well, we all have to sacrifice sometimes.
LAO
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: 86% of Republicans approve of Trump.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
LOL. Makes sense. He’s the biggest zero around
JPL
Scott Pruitt explains the Chick-fil-a deal
https://twitter.com/JessicaASmith8/status/1004421219888848897
Be warned that it has to do with love
Brachiator
@Highway Rob:
That’s funny!
The US stupidly started the war. Some politicians even thought that Canada would join the US if we invaded them. No doubt a Trump ancestor.
But it always fascinated me that both sides accepted a return to the status quo so easily.
Equally fascinating is that Americans often think the war was a big deal, while the British at the time were more concerned with some dude named Napoleon.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@LAO:
Oh good. Like others have said I think the numbers of self-identifying registered Republicans has shrunk and that 86% approval is the hard core of the hard core RWNJs.
joel hanes
@ruemara:
They autoplay
If you use firefox, you can easily put a stop to that. On all sites. Without adding a plugin.
https://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/11/finally-mozilla-adds-working-html5-video-autoplay-blocking-to-firefox/
Shalimar
@Corner Stone: Let’s give Trump some credit. He may act like a toddler, but he isn’t going to be interested in toddler toys. Hookers. You can keep him occupied with prostitutes.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@jl: I don’t believe the San Juan Pig War was ever settled entirely to our satisfaction.
Yutsano
@Shalimar:
They must all have a striking resemblance to his daughter.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Still about 40 million people.
jonas
@TenguPhule:
Sadly, they also voted for this by pretty big margins. Once again, “but I didn’t think the leopards would eat *my* face!”
MattF
@Yutsano: Any thoughtful pimp would figure out that one.
jonas
@LAO: Not so much racism as pure, robotic tribalism: does he have an R after his name? Then I’m fer ‘im!
Mnemosyne
@Origuy:
Sadly, this will be my second surgery, because I managed to re-tear the ACL I had replaced 12 years ago. ? But if I get it done now, I may avoid a knee replacement 20 years from now, so I have to get it done.
Peale
I believe we are actually the ones who have threatened to invade Canada most recently. Actually the last time I think was 1873 over the extradition of Lord Gordon Gordon. And it technically wasn’t the U.S. doing the invading, but the state of Minnesota.
Steeplejack (phone)
@JPL:
Perfect comment in that thread:
That’s how I feel. Hate their politics, but I have to drop in on a quarterly basis for a sandwich and waffle fries.
JDM
@Jim Parish: Canadians aren’t always so jokey about it. They like to point out that “they” did so. (Based on my experience with being in Canada a fair amount over the last 30 years.) The punch line, which Canadians tend to ignore, is that the troops that burned down the WH had no connection with Canada other than that they were both under control of the British. The troops came from a garrison in Jamaica and were, if memory serves me well, were actually Irish.
There are other Canadian myths surrounding the War of 1812, but what isn’t so often said but Americans should learn (condemned to repeat it territory here) is that a great many Americans were convinced that a great way to get back at the Brits (who essentially started the war by impressing American seamen into the British navy, at sea, by force) was to invade Canada where, they believed, the population would rise in force against the British. It is true that the Brits were afraid of this too, and restricted arms borne by the locals due to this fear, but the Canadian branch of the Commonwealth were not all that keen on Americans, and of course had been recently bolstered by those who fled during and after the American Revolution because they were loyal to the Crown. Big miscalculation.
Funny thing is that what was a big factor in the Americans holding off the Brits long enough to make it a political loser to keep the war going was the American success against the British navy. This was unexpected because the Brits had an incredibly powerful navy and the Americans did not. Shades of Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. etc. etc.
Joyce H
BOOM! Stormy Daniels filed a new lawsuit, alleging that her previous attorney colluded with Cohen and Trump against her!
ruemara
@joel hanes: No authority to add new software. Every time creative cloud has an update, I need to put in an IT ticket. THE. WORST.
BruceFromOhio
I hope they take his lunch, pants the motherfucker, and leave him hanging from a post.
VOR
@MattF: Remember, Rudy 9/11 supposedly turned down Attorney General because he wanted SecState. So he probably sees himself as a serious commentator on Foreign Policy issues.
louc
@LAO: I can tell you, unfortunately. I just visited my mother in Alabama. She said, “I don’t like Trump, but he’s done some great things.” I responded, aghast, “what?!”
She said he got North Korea to free some prisoners. I’m sure she wanted to say “abortion.” As long as Trump gives the evangelicals what they want on the abortion and other religious fronts, morality be damned. They’re supporting him.
Shalimar
@eemom: Are you even capable of saying something nice without being an asshole about it?
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Thank you. I’m happy about the positive news but annoyed at the scheduling issues. I just want to get the darn surgery over with since it’s been 8 months. ?
catclub
@LAO
also the number of people who self identify as GOP for the survey might be shrinking.
Mel
@Mnemosyne: So glad to hear this. Fewer surgeries is good, good news.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: I’m glad it’s just one knee but I hope you get to have it sooner & that it heals up well. I’m sorry, Mem.
catclub
@Joyce H: That was apparent from the cheap seats I am sitting in.
JDM
BTW, I found a file on my hard drive from a forum post I made on the 1812 business about 10 years ago. I note that I was wrong about the troops coming up from Jamaica (I believe that’s where they went to afterward); it was Bermuda. It’s history, or trivia depending on your viewpoint, but some might find it interesting:
__
The Canadian view is, in much abbreviated form: one day the Americans decided to invade Canada for no particular reason, but Canada got tipped off by Laura Secord, Canada kicked the Yanks out, and Laura went off and opened a candy shop.
Now in a way this is all true, yet it’s not true as well.
After the revolution the USA formed (not actually right away) and was a fairly large country physically, but quite small in numbers and arms. They did a lot of trade by sea, but the sea trade was constrained by the British Navy, which was THE sea force at the time. The Brits and the French were having their differences, and this caused problems for the Americans. America was formally an ally of France, since they’d helped out during the revolution and had since dumped their monarchy. This was viewed with some alarm by the British monarch, naturally, because it seemed to be starting a trend.
Growing out of those differences came Napoleon’s exclusion of British goods from Europe, and Britain responded with a blockade. During this period, Britain seized 1,000 American ships. Also, they had been for some years impressing American citizens (some 10,000) into service on British naval vessels. (The British navy was a great place to be an officer, but they had some little trouble in recruiting regular seamen, so they “impressed” them into service, raiding the countryside of Britain and forcibly taking any able-bodied men they wanted.) They were also doing this at sea (where they could find experienced sailors) and didn’t confine it to British merchant vessels — they would stop and board American merchant vessels and take American citizens and force them into the British navy. At least one ship that refused to be boarded was fired on, killing 3 and injuring 18. The American government, for some reason, objected to this.
The Americans, under Jefferson at the time, tried economic coercion, but just didn’t have the clout, and the British navy was really putting the screws to their trade. In 1810, a group of politicians known as “The War Hawks” were elected to Congress. Shortly after, the British allies, the Shawnee, attacked American troops with British provocation (the Brits had been stirring up ill feelings among the Shawnee toward Americans for some time). In 1812, the Americans declared war on Britain.
There were several reasons to attack Canada (which wasn’t a country at the time but was instead a couple colonies called “Upper Canada” and “Lower Canada”, roughly what are now Ontario and Quebec).
1) The British were a vastly more powerful force at sea than the Americans. Taking British forces away from fighting at sea would be a good tactic even if it failed to free the continent of the British.
2) Many Americans thought that if an invasion took place, many residents of Upper Canada would join them in kicking out the British, which would effectively end the constant British practice of provoking Indian groups to attack Americans. This was only partly wishful thinking on the part of the War Hawks. The commander of the British forces in Canada had warned his superiors that while the colony had a potential force of 11,000, it “might not be prudent to arm more than 4000.”
The British didn’t want to lose Canada — for one thing, it was a valuable money-maker; the Hudson’s Bay Company was entrenched in the political and social fabric of Britain after a couple hundred years of fur-trading. They also wanted to contain the revolutionary ideas that the Americans had started with their successful revolution — already France had had a revolution — from the British viewpoint, they had to wonder who was next, and they didn’t want to start losing all their valuable colonies one by one.
The Americans’ invasion of Canada didn’t work as they would have hoped; British forces repelled them and invaded the USA, going as far as Washington DC and burning the White House (in retaliation for the American burning of York, now Toronto). And yes, Laura Secord warned of one such invasion plan. BTW, contrary to the usual Canadian claim that they did the deed in DC, that action was actually accomplished by a fleet that had been shipped up from Bermuda, and had no connection to Canada at all (interesting trivia: the troops that burned the White House were under the command of an Irishman, and the White had been designed by an Irish-American and was modelled on an Irish country manor). But it did divert British energy that might have been decisive at sea. The Americans did surprisingly well at sea, which was a terrible shock to Britain (and everyone else, who were scared stiff of the British navy). The Yanks also managed to take control of the Great Lakes, which was thought to be virtually impossible. Then the Americans had a series of victories, beating back British invasions on a wide front, and defeating larger British forces at Lake Champlain.
After all this, with a easy victory — or any victory at all — looking impossible for the British, the US and Britain negoiated and signed the Treaty of Ghent in December of 1814. The Brits agreed to give up designs on the Northwest Territories (what is now Ohio, Indiana, and parts of Illinois and Kentucky, if I remember right) and to stop interfering with American shipping.
So on the one hand, the Americans did invade Canada and were forced back. On the other hand, they had over a decade of intense provocation, and once they fought, a fledging nation fought the mightest navy on earth to a standstill, and repelled one of the the world’s most powerful armies. So I’d say the Canadian view of an essentially unprovoked attack and a defeat of the Americans could be more accurately viewed as an attack after much provocation and a sort of victory, in that the British finally agreed to stop their seizing of American citizens and ships, and also agreed to stop trying to take over the American western territories.
BTW, this is the war that gave us a couple of classic battles, the Battle of New Orleans, where Jackson defeated the British in a battle that actually took place a week after the war was over (word hadn’t gotten there yet), and John Paul Jone’s famous line when his ship was under attack by British forces and taking a beating — when asked if he surrendered, Jones replied “I have not yet begun to fight”. That he beat them. Jones also used, and perhaps coined the phrase, “in harm’s way” (“I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm’s way.”)
Yutsano
@VOR: I might be a cynic, but I think none of that happened. Rudi was dogshite by the end of the campaign.
catclub
@JPL:
Love of money? Love of being paid money for not doing work?
Brachiator
@BruceFromOhio:
Just like the British did to Madison during the War of 1812!
ETA. OK, they just ate his dinner. But still…
BruceFromOhio
@eemom: This, thank you. Next version of Cleek Filter needs a Twitter blocker.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne: Ah well, the good news outweighs the bad. Though I do not blame your impatience one bit.
Mnemosyne
@JDM:
I’m not sure that you’re correct about this. Someone here recommended a really interesting book called When Britain Burned the White House that has all of the details from the British perspective. The Americans were terrified because the troops who invaded were led by veterans of the Peninsular Campaign, which was just as ugly as any modern guerrilla war.
The Prince Regent was actually horrified that they burned the National Archives — it seemed like an uncivilized move to destroy America’s artwork and documents.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack (phone): I think the homophobe who founded the joint took a dirt nap, so maybe it’s safe to eat there again?
cynthia ackerman
@Elizabelle:
He’s contemplating a pardon for the Hammond’s, who brought the occupiers to Burns.
Not Bundys et al., though that would not be surprising.
Pardonfest seems to be about at least two things: chaff to normalise lots of pardons so that the criminal-in-chief pardon is just one more, and boosting the Dunning-Krueger feedback loop between CIC and his base (a win/win in his mind …).
Betty Cracker
@Joyce H: Good. I hope it’ll turn up a lot of dirt on her previous attorney, who seems to have colluded with Cohen on all kinds of other mistress payoffs, including the extremely hinky $1.6M from RNC finance chair Broidy, who may have taken that hit for Trump. Would love to see that exposed, not that it would dissuade Trump’s hypocritical evangelical supporters.
Betty Cracker
@cynthia ackerman: I suspect Trump also loves the pardon thing because it’s maybe the closest thing to monarchical power that exists in the US. He can do it at his own whim without support from legislators.
SFAW
@Shalimar:
That might work — up until the first time a hooker says to him “And how’s my little boy? And I do mean LITTLE.” Then it’ll be all stamping-his-little-feet and whining about how mean the nasty girl is, and that she didn’t even call him “Daddy” as he asked. And then he gets the launch codes fired up, just to prove how manly he is. Or some such.
So, on the whole, toddler toys would be better.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Only way for that to happen is if he does something obvious to truly help non-whites
Steeplejack (phone)
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, Truett Cathy died in 2014, but I’m sure the sons are keeping the flame alive. By the way, one of them is named Bubba Cathy, which is ludicrous even by Saltine-American naming standards.
Brachiator
The lame conventional wisdom says that the victor gets to write the history of a war. With the War of 1812, there is British, Canadian and American version. I’ve read some British historians get sniffy, denigrating James Madison as a lightweight and noting that they sent their B team to negotiate with the Americans.
And even though the status quo was mostly re-established, the biggest losers may have been the Native American nations. The British agreed to stop providing them with support. And the Native Americans lost their great leader Tecumseh at the Battle of Thames in Canada in 1813.
LAO
@cynthia ackerman:
So far, none of the actual Bundys have been convicted yet. No pardons necessary.
patrick II
they should just offer Trump 1/2 billion dollars to build a Trump Tower somewhere and their troubles will be over. Just ask the Chinese.
pluky
@TenguPhule: More like Saudi and Emirati diplomats and business people. You know, the ones with some quid for his quo.
cynthia ackerman
@Betty Cracker:
Agree!
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
It’s very annoying. I feel like I can’t make any plans to do anything until I get that surgery date locked down. ?
Last time I did this, I had surgery 5 months after the injury. It’s been 8 months now and I can’t even get the surgery scheduled. Say what you will about the workers comp system, at least they make an effort to get injuries moved through ASAP.
Uncle Cosmo
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, crap, when you’ve lost Mar-a-Liarspawn…
Corner Stone
@Yutsano:
Well, um…I have been reliably informed that Canada has many blonde women with the…uh…necessary.
Doug R
@jl:
The pig war of 1859 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859)
Doug R
@Steeplejack: Gallup’s got Republicans at 22-26 per cent of the population, depending on the month.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@SFAW: Nothing a good spanking won’t fix!
catclub
@LAO:
The best pardons come before any indictments, ask Nixon, ask all the people Bush I pardoned as he was leaving the office over Iran-contra.
Not all of them had been indicted.
eemom
@Shalimar:
Here, lemme try: go fuck yourself. Please.
Nope, guess not.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@LAO:
There is always the debt and fines to forgive.
Bobby Thomson
@Jim Parish: this.
Jake the antisoshul soshulist
@Ridnik Chrome: Bluto had a moral compass far superior to Trump
Tehanu
@MattF:
That’s because to Dump, history is a narrative of events that happened to him.
artem1s
If we are going to refight the war of 1812 can Cleveland please end up being the southern most of our new polite overlords provinces? PLZ!?
Sean
@Jim Parish: He probably thought he was being funny/snarky but after the shit he is pulling with our neighbor and closest ally; not really a good time for tone-deaf attempts at humor.
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne:
Maybe you should have a lawyer call about making an appointment soonest?? Where could you find a lawyer who would make a call/write a note for a small fee, like $4.89 Certified Mail Postage???