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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Trump Crime Cartel / Cohen Flips

Cohen Flips

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Michael Cohen’s lawyers aren’t going to be representing him after this week, and it looks like he’s going to cooperate with Mueller.

Update: As was pointed out in the comments, the “flip” part is ABC’s speculation. Cohen is definitely looking for new lawyers, and he may flip.

Update 2:

Reader Interactions

285Comments

  3. 3.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    This is from my lawyer friend, who has worked with McDermott, Will & Emery extensively in the past:

    “…I suspect the meter’s been running (not like his cabs, ha!) and he can’t pay, so they’re withdrawing. It also could be that they feel they’d be violating ethics obligations defending him if they’ve now seen lies. He’d have to get new counsel and likely start over, so my guess is that folks are speculating that his only real alternative is to cooperate if he can’t afford new counsel.

    Also, remember that the campaign paid some of his legal fees, so would be interesting to know what’s going on there as well. Maybe the campaign said they’d only pay if he kept fighting and MWE is advising cooperation, so the campaign cut off payments?

    All still sounds like speculation, will be interesting if new counsel is announced and if that will change this story.”

  4. 4.

    Yarrow

    Trump, his family, his associates, and the traitor Republicans are fucked. Tick fucking tock, you traitorous motherfuckers.

  5. 5.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    So say it with the Republicans.

    * Cohen only briefly represented Trump for thirty ro forty years of business dealings.

    * Cohen is a plant on Trump from Deep State(tm)

    * Who doesn’t bribe the cops to over look dead underage hookers using their lawyer?

  9. 9.

    LAO

    Premature celebration people — I think the WSJ gets it right. Cohen hasn’t decided whether he’s going to cooperate yet.

    I expect he will, in the end, though.

  11. 11.

    germy

    Person close to Cohen says he hasn’t flipped yet, “he’s sending up a smoke signal to Trump: I need help.”— Gabriel Sherman (@gabrielsherman) June 13, 2018

    From what I see, ABC News is the only one reporting the flip. Other outlets are quoting ABC.

    I’d like to see more confirmation before I pour champagne.

  12. 12.

    germy

    The only confirmation I see so far is that his lawyers have left.

    WSJ confirms parts of the ABC News report: The attorneys for Michael Cohen are expected to stop representing him, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Cohen is searching for a federal criminal lawyer in New York. t.co/xuiRqz8QE8
    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 13, 2018

  14. 14.

    Elizabelle

    Maybe Giuliani can take on Cohen too. And where’s that ethical John Yoo?

    I hope Cohen flips so hard he gets an Olympic medal for it.

  17. 17.

    VeniceRiley

    I’d prefer to see him in prison, since we have him on tape and all his documents. But, if he’s got more to give in testimony, I suppose a reduced 10 year sentence would be acceptable. Instead of, say, death penalty for treason.

  20. 20.

    jacy

    You know, the only silver lining of the 24/7 firehouse of shit is the it’s become normal for the news story of the moment to be eclipsed by the news story of the next moment. It sucks when moves an important outrage down in focus, but it also negates anything this shitshow administration touts as a win. In a week no one will even remember that Trump met with Kim. That’ll see like something that happened a thousand years ago.

    It’s just a foot stepping on a dick forever.

  22. 22.

    Trabb's Boy

    My guess is that they quit because Cohen openly planned to lie. He’s not going to cooperate.

  23. 23.

    Barbara

    I have no idea whether he is going to flip, but my interpretation of the overall situation is as follows: When the government asked for a DOJ taint team to review documents for privilege, that was the normal practice and is, essentially, free for the defendant. Instead, Cohen’s lawyers (probably at his direction) raised a stink about that process, and managed to get their own right of review and a special master who has now indicated that almost nothing is actually privileged. But in the mean time, by inserting themselves into the process they are literally reviewing hundreds of thousands of pages of non-privileged “stuff” — solely for privilege, mind you, not substance — and racking up huge fees to do so. They have also been going verrrrry slowwwwly and got called on it.

    The whole thing reeks of delay, delay, delay, and now, my sense is, the lawyers have told Cohen to either agree to put up the money to continue trying to push this crazy expensive review or accept that the review is over and there is no point in resisting the government’s proposed plan for dealing with these documents.

    Lawyers can’t just quit in a case like this even when they stop getting paid. This is more likely an argument over strategy. I don’t know that it really signals anything about flipping, so much as, he has run out of other cards to play.

  26. 26.

    piratedan

    well depending upon the Trump crew to do the right thing is apparently a waste of time, so I’ll believe Cohen has done the deed when I see his ass on the stand giving dates and times….

    to quote one of my favorite comedians (who has since passed) Ron Shock, “these people put the “R/(are)” in stupid….”

  28. 28.

    chopper

    @The Dangerman:

    last i saw he popped in on one thread to check in, had some hospital issues. haven’t heard since.

    it just isn’t the same hearing ‘fuckem’ from others.

  30. 30.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Yarrow: Treason is going to be nothing next to the child brothel scandal that will pop up sooner or later (Trump’s Modeling Agency), or the fact that Trump pimped his own daughter. One thing is for sure the ability for conservatives and evangelicals to shrug it off is going to be amazing and even if the Dem sweep Congress next fall I don’t think anything will change. To much of the Right is locked in fantasy land to make an impeachment viable and the press will “both sides” kidnapping, rapping and murdering children tell the cows come home.

  32. 32.

    JPL

    Supposedly an indictment is coming down, and Cohen is looking for an attorney more equipped to handle white collar crimes.

    Must credit MSNBC

  33. 33.

    West of the Rockies

    @rikyrah:

    Agreed. Running with the clock metaphor and borrowing from the nuclear clock, where are we on this investigation? I’m hoping it’s about 11:57.

  34. 34.

    LAO

    @JPL: LOL! Only if I got the money upfront. A lot of money. I’d totally represent him (especially, if he wanted to flip).

  35. 35.

    MCA1

    @JPL: Wait, what was the specialty of these McDermott guys, if not white collar crim def? It’s not like there was some suspicion Cohen was under investigation for kidnapping, or that the feds were gonna bring an antitrust suit or something. This has been about white collar crimes from the get-go.

  36. 36.

    scav

    So, what is it they call it when a gymnast does her preliminary run and then pauses slightly before doing the corner to corner run of flip combinations? Will there be some astonishing new triple gazizwit inverted razzleflop or just the safe usual routine? Will the judges from Russia somehow have radically different scores for the run once completed? That slight pause of anticipation grips the crowd.

  38. 38.

    sukabi

    @Betty Cracker: now if you can find the Nat geo footage from many years ago of an excited bull elephant running and stomping his dick and trumpeting, because “omg stomped my dick” that would be awesome?

    I almost died laughing when I saw that…

  40. 40.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jacy:

    It’s just a foot stepping on a dick forever.

    As said by O’Brion in the updated 1984 as Winston is strapped to a chair and forced to watch a cartoon of a rat screaming endless obscenities to a laugh tract. The book will end as Winston and Julia drink lattes in a Starbucks to celibate the taking of Vancouver, because we’ve always been at war with Canada.

  43. 43.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Cheryl Rofer: This is my interpretation – he’s telling Trump he MIGHT flip if Trump doesn’t either pay for his lawyers or pre-emptively pardon him.

  44. 44.

    HeleninEire

    @LAO: Hi LAO. Can you explain why flipping is necessary? Mueller has all the documents. How much can Cohen contribute beyond that?

    Also, too? I TOLD YOU weeks ago that you should get your defence attorney hands on all of that wingnut welfare $$$$$.

  45. 45.

    The Dangerman

    @chopper:

    it just isn’t the same hearing ‘fuckem’ from others.

    Nope.

    Get well, as applicable, EFG, you’re our Jim Healy (SoCal people will know the reference) of Fuck ‘Ems.

  47. 47.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @HeleninEire:

    Can you explain why flipping is necessary? Mueller has all the documents. How much can Cohen contribute beyond that?

    Authentication and context.

  49. 49.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @The Dangerman: @eclare:

    I just phoned and left a message asking him or mrs efg to phone with whatever message I might pass along to BJ. Said we all miss him and love him and hope he is recovering nicely. Said best would be if he could comment directly but if spotty wifi makes that difficult I would be glad to convey whatever they’re comfortable sharing with the jackals. Will let you know when and if I hear back.

  50. 50.

    LAO

    @HeleninEire: I know — you gave me some solid career advice — I have to get off my lazy ass.

    Omnes answered your other question, but I will add that the feds (or Team USA, as we like to call them) really like to beat a dead horse and the best way to do that is recruit as many cooperators as it can.

  52. 52.

    The Other Chuck

    @MisterForkbeard: A pardon means Cohen goes to prison for obstruction if he doesn’t flip. To say nothing of the obstruction charges the pardon itself would bring.

  53. 53.

    MattF

    @MisterForkbeard: IANAL, however, my understanding is that pre-emptive pardoning is a bad idea for Trump. It means that Cohen could no longer take the 5th if he’s questioned. Ooops.

  55. 55.

    debit

    @MisterForkbeard:

    This is my interpretation – he’s telling Trump he MIGHT flip if Trump doesn’t either pay for his lawyers or pre-emptively pardon him.

    IANAL. but if Trump pardons him, then wouldn’t Cohen be compelled to testify without being able to plead the 5th Amendment? And if he lied, wouldn’t that be another crime? So, what does Trump gain from pardoning him?

    ETA: Yeah, what everyone else said.

  58. 58.

    Yarrow

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The child trafficking and prostitution story is going to be horrific.

    I can’t wait for the laundering of Russian money through evangelical organizations to be made public. It’s coming. That’s going to be very interesting to watch. These people are all in bed together–NRA, evangelical churches and organizations, Republicans, Russia.

  63. 63.

    LAO

    @Cheryl Rofer: I don’t think it’s a smoke signal either. Cohen is still attached to the RNC, he could easily get a private message through to Trump. I think Cohen’s lawyers only signed on to do the privilege check, and it’s been onerous and expensive — Cohen doesn’t have the means to finance a high power defense and he’s panicking in private to his so-called friends. Those friends, apparently are willing to talk to the press.

    Cohen hasn’t decided to cooperate, I think he’s merely weighing some pretty dismal options.

  65. 65.

    chopper

    @Ohio Mom:

    he did mention that the hospital had shitty wifi so he could only drive-by. but that was a while back, so i hope he isn’t still there.

  66. 66.

    Ohio Mom

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks very much. Hope the efgs interpret the call less as nudging and more that we are very, very concerned and also pulling for him. Because that’s what it is.

  67. 67.

    chopper

    @JPL:

    Cohen is looking for an attorney more equipped to handle white collar crimes.

    what the hell were his previous attorneys supposed to be equipped for?

  71. 71.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: LAO — What do you think? Most of the flippers who I represented said they were NOT GOING TO FLIP! long after the cooperation began. This public will he/won’t he is outside my experience.

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ohio Mom:

    Absolutely. Have lost track of time, but maybe a year or so ago (?) when he was in hospital sorting out the dialysis routine, I did the same and there was no sense that we were being intrusive or nosy — just concerned and sending warm wishes.

  73. 73.

    sukabi

    @chopper: maybe he’s looking for lawyers who have actual white collar crime experience…not the defense of, just the experience.

    “I need new passports, a way out of the country, and a safe place to land. Can you make it happen?”

    Interview questions for his new attornies.

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    @jacy:
    It’s just a foot standing on a dick forever.
    Do not forget the golf shoes while that standing is happening. It’s always that extra little touch that sets this entire fucking disaster apart.

  75. 75.

    Immanentize

    @MattF: Thisis true. And then to refuse to testify can be punished by criminal contempt (think Susan McDougal). And lying will be punished with perjury charges which the President, I assume, could then pardon….

    I am interested in the pardon power for contempt. I understand that the President, as chief prosecutor, has power over the executive aspects of crime. But contempt — even criminal contempt — is a Judiciary power. This is the dispute still happening in regard to (future Senator?) Joe Arpaio.

  76. 76.

    TenguPhule

    @VeniceRiley:

    But, if he’s got more to give in testimony, I suppose a reduced 10 year sentence would be acceptable. Instead of, say, death penalty for treason.

    Nah, he still gets the death penalty for treason. But he gets to go out fast and clean.

  77. 77.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: So true — the desire not to appear to be rat is strong even in those that are cooperating! I, actually, don’t think Cohen will cooperate — i think he may try to cooperate but I expect he will be unable/unwilling to disclose EVERY PRIOR bad act/crime he has committed outside of his relationship with Trump. Which, of course, the Feds will require before tendering that sweet cooperation agreement and the nebulous promise of a 5K1 letter.* His new lawyers better forgo signing a “proffer agreement” or Cohen will really be screwed when Team USA rejects him.

    *5K1 letter is the letter the government promises to write on behalf of a criminal defendant outlining all of his/her cooperation and the extent of how truthful and helpful he/she was to the government. There is no promised sentence, a sentence is always up to the Judge.

  78. 78.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @germy:

    “he’s sending up a smoke signal to Trump: I need help.”

    Trump is a mean narcissist who believes only in zero-sum solutions. He doesn’t understand the concept of protecting someone loyal to him so they will protect him in return. As long as you’re still providing him useful service he will keep you in jobs close to him so you can do so, but the moment you’re any kind of danger, Trump goes looking for a bus to throw you under.

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Treason is going to be nothing next to the child brothel scandal that will pop up sooner or later (Trump’s Modeling Agency)

    I think this is likely, but those are Hella hard to get enough evidence to prosecute. Too many easy ‘I have no idea what she does in her free time’ and ‘Don’t be silly, I just had dinner with him’ type excuses. Trump would have to be a complete moron for there to be a trackable trail…

    Oh.

    Trump pimped his own daughter.

    Cross that one off your list of hopes. It would be so small scale, nobody but the Trumps themselves or an intelligence service that was spying on them would have evidence. It’s just possible Russia would out Trump selling Ivanka’s services or sleeping with her himself, because Putin has a record of pushing the scandal back into view if it dies down. Seems pretty damned unlikely. No other IC is going to, because they won’t have evidence usable in a court and merely embarrassing him won’t be worth betraying how much they know.

  79. 79.

    ET

    I know that loosing ones lawyers particularly in the middle of something like this is a big deal. Obviously if he wasn’t paying his bills or not cooperating with his lawyers he could be dropped and if he felt those lawyers didn’t know what they were doing he could drop them. Obviously if he is going to cooperate things have changed for him and with this phase it may mean it would be a time for new lawyers but still this seems like there is a story there.

  80. 80.

    TenguPhule

    @jacy:

    In a week no one will even remember that Trump met with Kim.

    To the contrary, that photo of them shaking hands is going to go down as the next Rumsfield meeting with Saddam.

  81. 81.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @TenguPhule: We could give them a menu of the various medieval executions Trump’s new North Korean best buddy has done. Fed to dogs, shot with anti-aircraft missile, etc

  83. 83.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Another rumor: Cohen is sending a smoke signal to Trump for help.

    Trump is just as likely to send a man with a pillow to smother Cohen with.

  84. 84.

    Anonymous At Work

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
    There isn’t a good scenario for Cohen under any of the possibilities because he isn’t letting his current team go to hire better lawyers. That would have been obvious. Any scenario for Cohen, therefore, is bad news.

  86. 86.

    JPL

    From emptywheel

    In the movie version of our current reality, Andrew Weissman gets on a phone to both Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort and says he has just one more plea deal available.

  87. 87.

    catclub

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Another rumor: Cohen is sending a smoke signal to Trump for help.

    It is amusing and makes ironic sense, since the lawyers write the laws, that paying for the underlings’ lawyers is NOT considered obstruction of justice.

    More lawyers get paid (in theory, given the present discussion).

  89. 89.

    jacy

    @TenguPhule:

    But it won’t be important. Nothing matters for long anymore. And won’t until there’s a major upheavel that sets things on a more normal path.
    I choose to think of it like the old Twilight Zone episode “The Monsters are Due on Maple Street.” We’re living in a panicked mob mentality right now, but some massive event or series of events will happen to regain order. Those who participated in the worst of it will slink back to their homes and pretend nothing ever happened, or even actually believe nothing did. At least that’s what I hope….

  90. 90.

    jl

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:
    ” medieval executions Trump’s new North Korean best buddy has done. Fed to dogs, shot with anti-aircraft missile, etc ”

    So, that’s what they used anti-aircraft missiles for, before they had aircraft. Huh? Who wudda thunk?

  91. 91.

    rikyrah

    California woman ‘in shock’ after ICE agents detain father, a legal resident, outside home
    By ELIZABETH CHOU and BRENDA GAZZAR | Southern California News Group
    PUBLISHED: June 13, 2018 at 6:39 am | UPDATED: June 13, 2018 at 6:53 am

    The daughter of an Arleta man who was detained Sunday outside his home by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents spoke out this week about his treatment and the immigration policies that appear to target longtime, law-abiding residents.

    Jose Luis Garcia, 62, was watering his lawn and having his morning coffee outside his Arleta home when ICE agents put him in handcuffs and detained him, according to his daughter, Natalie Garcia.

    ………………………………

    Garcia said her father has a conviction for a misdemeanor stemming from a domestic violence dispute with her mother that occurred 18 years ago. Her father completed his sentence for that conviction, which was anger management classes and reporting to probation, she said.

    ICE officials confirmed in a statement that Garcia, who is a citizen of Mexico, was arrested by deportation officers on Sunday.

    “Databases reveal that Mr. Garcia has past criminal convictions that make him amenable to removal from the United States,” the statement said. “Mr. Garcia is currently in ICE custody pending removal proceedings, where an immigration judge with the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) will determine whether or not he has a lawful basis to remain in the United States.”

    …………………………

    “It’s part of a pattern that we’ve seen of rounding up people who are longstanding members of our community who have family here and settled lives here and their lives are turned upside down because they may have committed some misdemeanor deep in their past,” Kaufman said.

  92. 92.

    TenguPhule

    “Six and a half hours — that’s a long time for these big massive planes to be flying to South Korea to practice and then drop bombs all over the place, and then go back to Guam,” Trump said. “I know a lot about airplanes; it’s very expensive.”

    Real man of genius. //

  95. 95.

    rikyrah

    Today the House is holding a markup session on an appropriations bill. Section 112 of this bill would allow tax-exempt churches to endorse political candidates.

    Urge your Members of Congress to keep the religious right’s dark money out of politics t.co/JmuqQAoN0p pic.twitter.com/oiH7VGHDve

    — Secular Coalition for America (@seculardotorg) June 13, 2018

  96. 96.

    ? Martin

    Cohen will flip. And if Trump were to pardon Cohen now, this would only strengthen Muellers obstruction case against Trump. I mean, what could be more obviously obstruction of justice? And Cohen will still be fucked when the state of New York takes over the elements of the case that can be prosecuted at the state level, and Cohen is fully aware he’d be MUCH more comfortable in a fed joint than up in Ossining.

    Granted, this is all just theater. The only way to put an end to this is to vote Republicans out.

  98. 98.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah: There are 10,000 ICE agents in the USA. All of em are going to have to be shipped to the Hague when this is over.

  99. 99.

    Immanentize

    @sherparick: The 1965 immigration law, which favored family reunification, was in fact intended to whiten immigration. Irish, Italian, protestants, etc. were the target of that law. Ooopsie, unintended consequences over time.

  104. 104.

    Immanentize

    @TenguPhule: Real old school? Or pals in Uzbekistan — boiled in oil. I now understand they are freezing dissidents there. “Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice….”

  105. 105.

    Joyce H

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    One thing is for sure the ability for conservatives and evangelicals to shrug it off is going to be amazing and even if the Dem sweep Congress next fall I don’t think anything will change. To much of the Right is locked in fantasy land to make an impeachment viable

    I genuinely expect Trump to resign, when the House flips if not before. I don’t understand the people who insist that he’ll never quit – he ALWAYS quits. Once he concludes that the situation he’s in is screwed up beyond all repair (never acknowledging that he’s the one who screwed it up) and that he’s not going to get anything more out of it in the areas of monetary gain or ego gratification, he just walks away and leaves the mess behind for someone else to clean up.

    He was sounding at the end of his tether as long ago as several months ago, and I concluded the only thing keeping him hanging on was the prospect of the NK summit and the chance that he might somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat and gain a great victory and the whole world will recognize it and give him the adulation he so richly deserves. He’s posturing like that’s what happened, but look around – he knows better. The media isn’t buying it, the public isn’t buying it.

    The dirty deals that he’s been able to conduct in secret when he was a private citizen leave a paper trail and Mueller has been hoovering them up for a year now. Cohen’s got him on AUDIO and lord knows what that means – Trump sure doesn’t. He can’t even remember what he said to Cohen in their numerous phone calls, but he knows it can’t be good.

    Add to that a Congress performing their mandated oversight duties, think about Adam Schiff with subpoena power. Trump won’t even wait for the new Congress to be sworn in. He’ll be out of there.

  106. 106.

    chopper

    @LAO:

    LOLz, but doesn’t it seem odd that federal prosecutors would tell the guy that they’re “preparing paperwork” to arrest him?

  107. 107.

    JPL

    @rikyrah: It’s been reported that they are also looking for inaccuracies when applying for citizenship. Be prepared for some being stripped of their citizenship.
    I’m sick.

  109. 109.

    West of the Rockies

    @TenguPhule:

    I would like to think that some of them despise what they are doing (apparently not enough to quit though).

    I also wish the significant others and daughters and sons of these agents look at them with decreasing affection and pride.

  111. 111.

    LAO

    @chopper: No — it’s typical in white collar cases, especially with extensive investigations, that the defendant is given notice. When you represent an individual during an investigation, it’s fairly easy to see and understand where the government is in the process.

  112. 112.

    Joyce H

    @chopper:

    man, trump could barely even get one decent positive news cycle out of the NK talk.

    The media has a quota of good news per news cycle – and that darn raccoon took it!

  113. 113.

    The Dangerman

    Michael Cohen has received word from federal prosecutors that they are preparing paperwork to arrest him.

    OK, I’m coming up with my own variation; apologies to the originators for my outright theft:

    To Cohen, “Tick, TALK, Motherfucker”.

  114. 114.

    jacy

    @Joyce H:

    I think he’ll quit too. Narcissists can’t stand failure — and when the failure starts to hammer him he will withdraw from it and declare himself the winner. Why do you think everyone around him curates his inputs so severely? They’re trying to keep him from bolting. As I’ve said before, he’s an ameba — the stimuli gets painful enough the only thing he can do is run from it. (Or to be more accurate, ooze away from it as fast as his blobby self can manage.)

  115. 115.

    chopper

    @LAO:

    good to know. the wording sounded odd, like one of those spam calls where someone tells you “the IRS is preparing an arrest warrant in your name”.

  117. 117.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:
    EU and the Asian Allies would be still Oceania. The update will add Fortress America(tm) to the traditional mix. Fortress America(tm) will be unique that the InSoc Party collapsed when the US Supreme Court ruling allowed fictional characters to run for public office. Everyone knows Big Brother isn’t real and it doesn’t matter to them.

  118. 118.

    LAO

    Is there some formal competition, I’m unaware of?

    The idea of rats fleeing some kind of losing endeavor has seen use as a simile since at least 1600. t.co/WYxTLtRUav— Merriam-Webster (@MerriamWebster) June 13, 2018

    A Manchurian candidate is a person, especially a politician, being used as a puppet by an enemy power.t.co/H8mNJJHXP1— Dictionary.com (@Dictionarycom) June 13, 2018

  119. 119.

    trollhattan

    @Joyce H: @jacy:
    Wish I could believe so but do not–to the contrary Trump never fails, just ask him. Each time something doesn’t go His Way it’s because somebody else failed and/or Forces of Evil and/or Crooked Hillary intervened using their Dark State superpowers. To repurpose the old line: Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed.

    I do not see him quitting, but I’d be perfectly fine with a significant coronary event. Today would be good. Pence, we can knock out.

  120. 120.

    TenguPhule

    @Joyce H:

    I don’t understand the people who insist that he’ll never quit – he ALWAYS quits. Once he concludes that the situation he’s in is screwed up beyond all repair (never acknowledging that he’s the one who screwed it up) and that he’s not going to get anything more out of it in the areas of monetary gain or ego gratification, he just walks away and leaves the mess behind for someone else to clean up.

    He can’t walk away because all roads out of office lead to prison or death. Trump has finally found real power and he’s not giving it up.

    This is lord of the rings level obsession he’s got. The power of life and death in his tiny tiny hands.

  121. 121.

    Immanentize

    @West of the Rockies: Frankly, not necessarily too many months from now if things stay on this path. I think that Mueller will either release some report about Trump (maybe on the Comey obstruction issue, maybe even half- clearing Trump) in July or we will not hear a thing about Trump until after the election in November. Likewise, more indictments for others until labor day, but then, quiet. That would be playing it straight by DOJ standards. Now the prosecutions that are already in motion — they will proceed apace. But who knows? this situation is so crazy and unique….

  123. 123.

    TenguPhule

    @West of the Rockies:

    I would like to think that some of them despise what they are doing (apparently not enough to quit though).

    Anyone with pride and common sense should have left already. If they’re still there, they know what they did.

    Fuck em.

  124. 124.

    sukabi

    @chopper: all they need is that last phone call, encripted text or email to see what else they can nail him on. What better way to get that last little bit than to say, “hey, pack a toothbrush we’re picking you up tomorrow”

    Maybe they’re hoping he’ll make a run for it and can snatch him at an airfield.

  125. 125.

    Jeffro

    @Immanentize:

    As I keep hoping, Mueller just needs to keep taking pieces off the board.

    Your hope is the likely strategy. Can’t indict the president*? O-kay. We’ll just indict every criminal around him, aka every person in his administration and the Trump Org to boot.

    @West of the Rockies:

    When do we get to see Trump down to a blocked pawn and his king?

    Can’t we just wall him up in the Oval Office, Cask of Amontillado-style? It’d make quite an exhibit for tour groups and kids on field trips once the now-hopelessly tarnished WH becomes a museum and/or an object lesson for posterity.

    2052: “And here, children, is where Donald “Don the Con” Trump was left for eternity in the office he desired so much…so much that he betrayed his own country, can you imagine?? (spits at bricks) Ah well, such is the fate of traitors!

    Now then…if we hurry a bit, we can make it to the unveiling of the Obama Monument on the Mall…”

  127. 127.

    Kay

    Another low quality Trump hire:

    senior advisor to the State Department appointed just two months ago has been quietly vetting career diplomats and American employees of international institutions to determine whether they are loyal to President Donald Trump and his political agenda, according to nearly a dozen current and former U.S. officials.
    Mari Stull, a former food and beverage lobbyist-turned-wine blogger under the name “Vino Vixen,” has reviewed the social media pages of State Department staffers for signs of ideological deviation. She has researched the names of government officials to determine whether they signed off on Obama-era policies — though signing off does not mean officials personally endorsed them but merely cleared them through the bureaucratic chain. And she has inquired about Americans employed by international agencies, including the World Health Organization and the United Nations, asking their colleagues when they were hired and by whom, according the officials.

    “I have in my entire federal career never experienced anything at this level of chaos and dysfunction.”

    They’re great managers! yes sir. I love that they’re not just authoritarian creeps who worship at the altar of Donald Trump, they’re also incompetents.

  129. 129.

    Joyce H

    @trollhattan:

    Wish I could believe so but do not–to the contrary Trump never fails, just ask him. Each time something doesn’t go His Way it’s because somebody else failed and/or Forces of Evil and/or Crooked Hillary intervened using their Dark State superpowers. To repurpose the old line: Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed.

    Oh, he reframes it in his mind so that he didn’t fail, but he DOES walk away. He walked away from Atlantic City, he walked away from the USFL, he walked away from Trump University. He ALWAYS quits. If you ask him, he’d say he never quits, but he always quits.

  130. 130.

    piratedan

    job 1 if we take back control of the legislative process of this country

    litigate these treasonous bastards into prison, using the rule of law…and I mean ALL of them. Everybody pays. Make guidelines into laws, no more of this ignoring the law bullshit, no more of the violation of the “spirit of the law” but not the letter of the law.

    We roll back all of this bullshit and then we also have to go after the mastermind itself, is essentially make Putin a walking corpse… just mho

  132. 132.

    chopper

    @Jeffro:

    “daddy, why is it called the Truncated Oval Office?”

    “well, son, it all goes back to 2016…”

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    Michael Cohen has received word from federal prosecutors that they are preparing paperwork to arrest him.

    Been away from the Internets and just saw this.

    It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

  135. 135.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Joyce H:
    If Trump does resign be prepared to hear from his worshippers, who can’t comprehend that he’s a thin-skinned narcissist who quits when the going gets tough, that he was “forced” to resign by the evil deep state.

  136. 136.

    Calouste

    @JPL: The regime was arguing in court a few months back that any discrepancy on an immigration form should be disqualifying, whether material or not. The judge tossed that out then, but I’m sure they will be back before long in front of one of Donnie Dementia’s handpicked “judges” and they’ll win. And there is so much paperwork to immigration that mistakes or inaccuracies or almost unavoidable.

  137. 137.

    West of the Rockies

    @Jeffro:

    Yes, let’s go all Poe on his fat ass! And deal with the two princes (include Jared and make it three) a la the London Tower method?

  138. 138.

    cmorenc

    @Trabb’s Boy:

    My guess is that they quit because Cohen openly planned to lie. He’s not going to cooperate.

    Lies will only work in court if the prosedutors can’t prove the witness / defendant wrong using his own documents, transactions, and past words to contradict the lie they’re trying to push on the judge / jury / prosecutors. The tiny portion of the voluminous amounts of Cohen docs, devices, and conversations the special master has found priviliged would be a clue even a very slow-witted bear should realize makes it unlikely he can successfully lie his way out convictions resulting in a very long jail term.

  139. 139.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:
    It’s a bridge too far for anyone except his most hardcore of worshippers. It’s a constitutional amendment he’d be violating, not an unwritten norm.

  141. 141.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule:

    This is lord of the rings level obsession he’s got. The power of life and death in his tiny tiny hands.

    I think you are still projecting way to much of a normal person’s thinking on President Jeffry Lanaster there. All president trip out on the power, Trump’s different that is his vision is so petty. Instead of trying for peace in NK, Trump went for some condos.

  144. 144.

    hitless

    @Calouste: And yet Kush can have 200 “omissions” on his clearance form, and that’s OK. Mistakes happen.
    Such meritocracy.

  146. 146.

    The Dangerman

    @piratedan:

    job 1 if we take back control of the legislative process of this country…

    …is clean up the media. I watched FOX for a while last night and the fellating of Trump was sickening; I’m all for free speech, but we all know there are limits (fire, crowded theater) and the pure propaganda outlets (it was pure and it was deep) needs to be addressed.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The jobs must absolutely suck, even for the loyalists:

    @peterbakernyt
    Follow Follow @peterbakernyt
    More
    Reporter: “The president said it will be verified.”
    Pompeo: “Of course it will.”
    Q: “Can you tell us a little bit more about–what is, what discussed about how?”
    Pompeo: “Just so you know, you could ask me this, I find that question insulting & ridiculous & frankly ludicrous.”

    Trump lied about the deal and now they all have to spend the next six months lying to cover his ass. No wonder they’re all so nasty, and lashing out at immigrant children. It sucks to work for him.

  148. 148.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Joyce H: Ya’ I could see Trump quitting under that, the idea that Trump would have to sit there and take it while the Dems went threw Trump’s life inch by inch would be to much for Trump. But Trump would do it in the most dickish way possible – basically calling on his base to avenge him and doing his best to screw Pence too.

  151. 151.

    TenguPhule

    @Joyce H:

    He walked away from Atlantic City, he walked away from the USFL, he walked away from Trump University. He ALWAYS quits. If you ask him, he’d say he never quits, but he always quits.

    His prior desertions didn’t end with him committing suicide by drowning himself in the bathtub and stuffing himself into a duffel bag. Trump knows the moment he loses full Secret Service protection, he’s fucked.

  152. 152.

    LAO

    @JPL: They are going to finish the privilege review. Cohen hasn’t been arrested yet — he’ll certainly have one at arraignment.

  153. 153.

    VeniceRiley

    Just read on twitter Cohen has a new lawyer already, but news source did not have a name. (ETA: Laura Rozen quoting Jennifer Hansler) I want a perp walk.

  154. 154.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay: They’re already demanding that reporters who ask them questions like that lose their credentials.

  155. 155.

    Death Panel Truck

    @chopper: I’ve gotten a couple of those calls. In the second one, I was told that I “would be taken under custody by the local cops.” Still waiting for them to show up.

  156. 156.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan:

    to the contrary Trump never fails, just ask him. Each time something doesn’t go His Way it’s because somebody else failed and/or Forces of Evil and/or Crooked Hillary intervened using their Dark State superpowers. To repurpose the old line: Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed.

    Oh I agree, that’s why I said Trump would do it in the most dickish way possible – he would find someone on his own side to blame the failure on, scream about being belayed and then leave. (Picture Trump returning to his building in NYC and never resigning, just sulking in his apartment)

  158. 158.

    Immanentize

    @cmorenc: They already turned Cohen’s Taxi business partner. Cohen is doomed. Unless he has something to sell to the prosecutors. I think the reports that losing his attorneys because of money is probably the most likely scenario. But it is also possible that Cohen refuses to flip, and his attorneys have advised he should. Strongly advised. Now as someone upstairs said, real defense attorneys breeze past this point is many many cases. But some white shoe fellows don’t like to be ignored.

  159. 159.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Mari Stull, a former food and beverage lobbyist-turned-wine blogger under the name “Vino Vixen,” has reviewed the social media pages of State Department staffers for signs of ideological deviation.

    Wait. I’m sorry. What?

    This may be a half-assed, fundamentally incompetent regime, but it is steadfastly authoritarian. It’s weird that people are worried about the media or somebody normalizing Trump, but his hires easily adapt to and normalize Trump’s thuggish insistence of a regime based on loyalty to the Dear Leader. North Korea’s Kim could take lessons from Trump on how to create a cult of personality.

    Cleaning this shit up will take a long time. But it will be critical.

  160. 160.

    droog

    Proverbs 18:18 (King Tiny Hands Version)

    Flipping a Cohen ends quarrels and settles disputes between powerful people.

  161. 161.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I have seen judges refuse to allow attorneys to withdraw if the only issue is money (and Cohen’s attorneys have already received at least a quarter of a million from the Trump campaign). I can’t imagine the judge will let them off the case immediately, or unless there is an entirely new phase of the matter, a true conflict, or another attorney files an appearance.

  162. 162.

    trollhattan

    @TenguPhule:
    Seem to recall that as a poison pill aimed at the Big Dog Republicans shortened the term of former president Secret Service protection from lifetime to a decade. “Fuck you, Clinton, ha-ha-ha!” Donny may be looking at actuarial tables and counting years on his delicate fingers.

  163. 163.

    TenguPhule

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    It’s a bridge too far for anyone except his most hardcore of worshippers. It’s a constitutional amendment he’d be violating, not an unwritten norm.

    He’s already violating the ennoulments clause and they’re cheering him on. He’s violating the records retention act and they don’t care. He’s picking a fight with FUCKING CANADA while fellating North Korea and they’re cheerleading him.

    Yeah no, there is no bridge to nowhere that’s too far for them.

  164. 164.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Hey (Waves Arms) — I think it likely that the feds will not offer Cohen a cooperation agreement because Cohen will not be truthful about all of his prior bad acts/criminal conduct outside of Trumpland– I expect he’ll proffer but be left with nothing. What say you?

  165. 165.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Agreed, but remember — Cohen hasn’t be arrested/arraigned, yet. The attorneys have agreed to say on to finish the privilege review. I don’t think they have an obligation to remain it’s completed.

  166. 166.

    trollhattan

    @Immanentize:
    Do I recall correctly the feds began investigating Cohen well before the campaign? He’s such a busy boy, they could have a vast collection of intel on him and his…clients.

  167. 167.

    TenguPhule

    @trollhattan: Reversed with President Obama. That’s why W Bush still gets limited protection and hasn’t suffered a tragic accident yet. But the level of protection drops once out of office, which Trump will not survive and he knows it.

  168. 168.

    debit

    @TenguPhule:

    His prior desertions didn’t end with him committing suicide by drowning himself in the bathtub and stuffing himself into a duffel bag. Trump knows the moment he loses full Secret Service protection, he’s fucked.

    Why do you imagine the Russians want him dead? They don’t care what he does after; he could go to jail or stay on permanent vacation. He’s already done what they want, and when it’s revealed that he’s been Putin’s puppet all along, they’ll have a good laugh and point and mock the US for being so stupid. “You’re so gullible, McFly!” With us, obviously, being George McFly.

    I think Trump hangs in there like grim death because if he doesn’t have the DOJ and Congress to help him, then he’s well and truly on his way to prison. As long as he has some power, he can (he thinks) avoid serious consequences.

  169. 169.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: Agree. That would be one hell of a proffer, no? They have so much on him, the discussions about him failing to include criminal behavior would go on for months? I used to tell clients offered immunity to start with the change they stole from their parent’s dresser and just keep going. I kind of miss those days.

    ETA Unless Cohen has one very juicy thing to tell….

  170. 170.

    Jeffro

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Trump would do it in the most dickish way possible – he would find someone on his own side to blame the failure on, scream about being belayed and then leave. (Picture Trump returning to his building in NYC and never resigning, just sulking in his apartment)

    Picture him flying off to the UAE, or even Russia. Air Force One, used by a traitor president* to flee the country. Why not? The script for this rather irritating political thriller hasn’t been realistic for over two years now…

  174. 174.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I thought that the attorneys might only be retained up until the end of the document review…. Then, he better be shopping for counsel. I’m sure some new Thomas Cooley grads need work.

  175. 175.

    rikyrah

    @Joyce H:

    Add to that a Congress performing their mandated oversight duties, think about Adam Schiff with subpoena power. Trump won’t even wait for the new Congress to be sworn in. He’ll be out of there.

    Maxine Waters with subpoena power.
    Ted Lieu with subpoena power.

    Makes me smile.

  177. 177.

    trollhattan

    Lordy, here’s something to revel in.

    In recent months, Kushner has cultivated a close relationship with CNN host and criminal-justice reform advocate Van Jones. “Jared is obsessed with Van,” one Trump adviser said. Kushner invited Jones to the White House multiple times and the two communicate frequently, Jones told me. “Jared and I have 99 problems but prison ain’t one,” Jones said. “I’ve found him to be effective, straightforward, and dogged.” Jones has lavished praise on Kushner publicly. In January, Jones wrote a CNN op-ed headlined, “Kushner’s effort to sway Trump on prison reform is smart.”

    The Kushner-Jones alliance has infuriated some Republican members of the administration, especially Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “He hate, hate, hates it,” a person close to Sessions said. But Sessions, who is hanging on for survival amidst frequent Trump attacks, has no power to move against Kushner. Sources say Trump may even like that Sessions is outraged because Trump is looking for anything that will get Sessions to quit so he can appoint an attorney general who isn’t recused in the Russia investigation. (The White House did not respond to a request for comment.)

    Hilarity ensues.

  178. 178.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Mari Stull, a former food and beverage lobbyist-turned-wine blogger under the name “Vino Vixen,” has reviewed the social media pages of State Department staffers for signs of ideological deviation. She has researched the names of government officials to determine whether they signed off on Obama-era policies — though signing off does not mean officials personally endorsed them but merely cleared them through the bureaucratic chain.

    if this were a movie, the critics would be calling this beyond absurd.

  180. 180.

    rikyrah

    @JPL:

    @rikyrah: It’s been reported that they are also looking for inaccuracies when applying for citizenship. Be prepared for some being stripped of their citizenship.
    I’m sick.

    I know…I know…
    Me too.

  183. 183.

    TenguPhule

    @debit:

    Why do you imagine the Russians want him dead?

    Putin has a history of cleaning up loose ends. Trump is every loose.

    Also, if I were a creative European or Israeli IC agency, I’d love to frame Russia for it and kill two birds with one stone.

    Hell, if I were China, I’d love to fuck with two global rivals at the same time and watch them go at it.

  184. 184.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:

    I find that question insulting & ridiculous & frankly ludicrous.

    Have you noticed this is the go-to answer for all the Trump people? Sarah Sanders particularly: “That question is insulting/ridiculous/etc.”

    It’s code for “you caught us.” If it’s so ridiculous, why not just answer it?

  185. 185.

    debit

    @TenguPhule: I dunno, I think you’re assuming anyone outside of his kids would actually care. The press conference would go like this: “This morning, overnight janitors found former President Trump dead in a duffle bag. This is terrible, terri-oh, who are kidding? In a duffle bag! Bwah hahahaha!!”

  188. 188.

    Immanentize

    @trollhattan: Yes, I think he has been scrutinized for quite a while. The taxi business in many cities suddenly got new looks by prosecutors when rideshare companies started taking market and the value of medallions plunged. Even in Boston it has been pretty nasty to see the taxi owners pointing fingers at eacother. Indictments at 11.

  189. 189.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jeffro: or try to take sanctuary in Puerto Rico…

    I am thinking the Trump Tower because he would have it both ways – Trump is still president with all of the privileges even though he refuses to excise his powers as president.

  190. 190.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Questions about perceived gaps in the joint statement signed by Trump and Kim Jong Un are “insulting and ridiculous and frankly ludicrous,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters Wednesday in Seoul, where he is briefing South Korea on Tuesday’s U.S.-North Korean summit in Singapore.

    Asked specifically about verification of Pyongyang’s denuclearization and whether it will be irreversible — objectives outlined by Trump but unmentioned in the statement — Pompeo said: “The modalities are beginning to develop. There will be a great deal of work to do. There’s a long way to go. There’s much to think about.”

    “But don’t say silly things,” he said. “No, don’t. It’s not productive.”

    Pompeo said the statement’s reference to “complete” denuclearization “encompasses verifiable and irreversible.”

    Shit Sandwich tastes like shit.

  191. 191.

    TenguPhule

    Pompeo, referring to his extensive pre-summit communications with North Korea and the summit itself, said he was not going to talk about “discussions between the two parties.”

    He said he was confident that the North Koreans “understand what we’re prepared to do, [the] handful of things we’re not likely to do. . . . I am equally confident they understand that there will be in-depth verification.”

    “Not all of that work appeared in the final document,” Pompeo said. “But lots of other places where there were understandings reached, we couldn’t reduce them to writing.” That work, he said, was “beyond what was seen in the final document that will be in the place that we will begin when we return to our conversations.”

    North Korea’s state-controlled media provided its version of events Wednesday, saying that Trump had promised to end joint military exercises with South Korea and to eventually lift sanctions. It said that he had also agreed to “step by step” denuclearization, rather than the rapid and irreversible process the administration said it was demanding.

    Uh huh.

  192. 192.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    Does anyone find it significant that Mueller may put the screws to Cohen this weekend, with Father’s Day this Sunday? If you wanted a man to consider a long time in jail away from his family vs cooperating with the investigators, wouldn’t Father’s Day weekend be the best weekend to do so?

  193. 193.

    TenguPhule

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    We save a fortune by not doing war games, as long as we are negotiating in good faith – which both sides are!

    1:10 AM – Jun 13, 2018

    Every single word in that tweet is a lie. Every. single. word.

  195. 195.

    Gin & Tonic

    @TenguPhule: Actually pretty perfect, from a guy who thinks exercise is bad for you. So running exercises to make sure your personnel and materiel are ready for the task is probably just as much of a waste.

  199. 199.

    West of the Rockies

    @TenguPhule:

    I really want to see pasty-faced Kushner go down (followed by Ivanka’s vocal-fried keening and lamentations).

    I read that they “earned” 82 million last year. Bull f-ing shit.

  203. 203.

    But her emails!!!

    @TenguPhule:

    War games do cost a bit, although significantly less than what the cost in blood and treasure would be if there was a war on the Korean peninsula and the US, Japanese and South Korean forces didn’t know how to work together effectively.

  204. 204.

    Captain C

    @sukabi: I’m reminded of a line from a book (I think the Shrodinger’s Cat Trilogy):

    “As an ethical lawyer, I can’t tell you what I think. An unethical attorney, were he here, would frankly advise you to leave the country.”

  206. 206.

    Immanentize

    @Captain C: There are times when bolting far away and starting over is a smart play. But my clients never seemed to choose the right time or the right situation.

  207. 207.

    HeleninEire

    @LAO: Can they use the “proffer” (sorry if the grammar is wrong) [see ETA] that he gives them even if he decides not to flip or if they don’t give him a deal? Or does the 5th amendment kick in?

    ETA is “proffer” a verb or a noun?

  208. 208.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize:

    But my clients never seemed to choose the right time or the right situation.

    After they pay you and before the verdict is reached?

  209. 209.

    rikyrah

    @ruemara:

    @rikyrah: And y’all wonder why I’m hemming and hawing because of taxes.

    I don’t wonder.
    I’m not remotely making light of it. I wish for you that these were different times, but I just wish for you the security of citizenship.

    If you ain’t White, citizenship is the best bet, but yeah, that tax situation must be taken care of.

  210. 210.

    LAO

    @HeleninEire: It can be both — and you used it correctly. The short answer is, if you sign a proffer agreement in the SDNY but do not ultimately sign a cooperation agreement — a defendant can open the door to that evidence being used against him/her at trial. An explainer that’s slightly technical. Under 2d Circuit case law, a defendant is better off not signing a proffer agreement — even if they are proffering.

  211. 211.

    rikyrah

    London Breed feels her life experience can guide the city
    Raised on the rough side of San Francisco, she believes her bruised hometown can be made to shine once again
    By Heather Knight

    For Supervisor London Breed, the past four months have been a whirlwind of headline-making news, jolting her from one job to another.

    On Dec. 11, she was president of the Board of Supervisors leaning toward a run for mayor in 2019. On Dec. 12, Mayor Ed Lee died of a heart attack, and Breed was suddenly running San Francisco. On Jan. 23, she suddenly wasn’t.

    The supervisors stunned her and pretty much everybody else in the city by booting her from the top job in favor of Supervisor Mark Farrell.

    Breed, 43, didn’t have much control over any of it and seemed to be biting her tongue sometimes to project the most professional, measured image possible. Thrust into the spotlight, she avoided the slightest misstep or detouring from the script, as she has been known to do in the past.

    Perhaps that’s why her demeanor upon entering her safe haven, the African American Art & Culture Complex on Fulton Street in the Western Addition, was so striking.

    Totally at ease. Totally joyous. Busting out some dance moves. Playfully tossing her hair. Joking (well, half-joking) with our photographer about her best side, the side with the dimple. Drawing a gaggle of African American girls, who look up to her in both stature and achievement.

    “Oh, I love London!” exclaimed Jasmin Corley, an 18-year-old City College student who was in a dance class that afternoon. “She’s so inspirational. When she talks, it’s like the whole room stops

    …………………………………

    As anybody who’s been following the mayor’s race knows by now, Breed’s childhood in the Plaza East public housing projects near the African American Art & Culture Complex was far from picture-perfect.

    She was raised by her grandmother in an apartment with roaches, faulty plumbing and a shower that never worked. She was surrounded by poverty and violence. Her younger sister died of a drug overdose alone in her public housing unit in Potrero Hill in 2006. Her older brother, who was also addicted to drugs, is in prison for robbery and other crimes.

    Breed rose above it — and has just kept rising. She graduated from Galileo High School and UC Davis before becoming an intern in Brown’s Office of Housing and Neighborhood Services.

  213. 213.

    Gin & Tonic

    @trollhattan:

    Donny may be looking at actuarial tables and counting years on his delicate fingers.

    He will not have to remove his shoes to count, if you get my drift. At least according to fairly standard tables and making some baseline assumptions, taking his public medical report at face value.

  214. 214.

    HeleninEire

    @JPL: They’re gonna look into Melania’s application too, right. We already have the proof that she’s illegal.

  217. 217.

    Immanentize

    @HeleninEire: I’ll take the Q, but LAO may add later?

    “Proffer” is a noun for the thing which one “proffers.”
    Rule 410 of the Federal Rules of Evidence is pretty clear that, except in special circumstances, “a statement made during plea discussions with an attorney for the prosecuting authority if the discussions did not result in a guilty plea” is “not admissible against the defendant who made the plea or participated in the plea discussions.”

    Also, in the early phases, it is the attorney who will make statements, not the client, thereby protecting them even further (as it would be a version of hearsay as well). So, at first, it goes like this usually goes like this — the attorney writes to the prosecutor a sort of “just sayin’ memo:”

    “If my client were in a position to discuss matters without fear of prosecution or other consequences, he might be able to supply information about the following things….” But of course, a prosecutor can’t take the word of the attorney, so if the info. looks valuable, the prosecutor will make a semi-offer of leniency in exchange for a truthful debrief by the client/defendant. This is all considered “discussions” under Rule 410 above. Then, if the info. is good, the prosecutor will make an agreement to write a nice letter to the judge — and the federal “probation office” who is responsible for writing the pre-sentence report upon which judges rely for sentencing.

    Once you are in this process, never screw around.

  218. 218.

    chopper

    @Gin & Tonic:

    after macron was done shaking his hand, there was an imprint left for a while. that level of edema screams ‘heart patient’. never mind the bucket of colonel with a pint of ‘dippin gravy’ that makes up his lunch as he watches tv every single day.

  220. 220.

    TenguPhule

    The National Security Council has said that it made the video Donald Trump showed to Kim Jong-un at their Singapore summit on Tuesday in an unorthodox effort to persuade him of the benefits of denuclearisation.

    The four-minute video in Korean and English was made in the style of an extended action movie trailer and portrayed Kim and Trump as men of destiny with the future of the world in their hands.

    Now we know who did it.

    Garrett Marquis, an NSC spokesman said in a statement: “The video was created by the National Security Council to help the president demonstrate the benefits of complete denuclearization, and a vision of a peaceful and prosperous Korean peninsula.”

    When asked about the decision to present the video as made by a non-existent company, an NSC spokesman said there would be no further comment.

    “From my understanding, they were just using ‘Destiny Pictures’ as a play on words. It just so happens there’s a studio by that name in California,” said Ned Price, a former NSC spokesman.

    The four-minute video in Korean and English was credited to Destiny Pictures, but owner of firm with same name said he had ‘no involvement’

  221. 221.

    dmsilev

    @TenguPhule:

    Pompeo said: “The modalities are beginning to develop.”

    I’ll take “Desperately seeking ways of using words to say nothing” for $400.

  224. 224.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Mari Stull, a former food and beverage lobbyist-turned-wine blogger under the name “Vino Vixen,” has reviewed the social media pages of State Department staffers for signs of ideological deviation.

    On GOVERNMENT TIME…

    she’s trolling PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES…

  225. 225.

    Aleta

    @ruemara: I would love to contribute to any crowdfund for immigration and tax lawyers who could answer questions, or start an application if you wanted that. (I was thinking that with a crowdfund, personal info can stay private? I’m not good at setting things up, but someone here might be.)

    The questions about taxes vs application would be useful to others of us too.

    (If by any chance you want to move to Boston area my long time friends work in the courts to assist noncitizens and help privately w housing and jobs.)

  227. 227.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @TenguPhule:

    As I said earlier today, there is a concept stated in about the second quintile of that endorsing the “Great Man” theory of leadership. I’m pretty concerned about the NSC supporting that line of thinking.

  228. 228.

    Stan

    @Cheryl Rofer: The Soviet practice was to have Party members in secondary positions in all agencies to enforce Party discipline.

    That’s how it works in State government agencies too.

  230. 230.

    HeleninEire

    @rikyrah: Hi hon. Did you see the story today where they are trying to explain why Rand Paul was beat to hell by his neighbor? Apparently Rand piled up his tree clippings on his own property but in view of the neighbor. And HE DID IT TWICE!!!! That’s what made the neighbor beat him so bad that 6 ribs were broken.

    NO. EVERLOVING NO. Rand fucked the neighbor’s daughter. How is this confusing?

  232. 232.

    catclub

    @Joyce H: I remember predictions that Trump would not make it to the GOP convention, then that he would not make it to the election, so I would like this to be true, but I got no idea.

  233. 233.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I just read your link. It seems the 2d circuit might be a bit more fucked up than other places! I remember the Rosemond case which seemed like a good proffer case in the 2d, but I didn’t know about all that other mishegas.

  235. 235.

    SC54HI

    @HeleninEire:
    According to the press release they are focusing on individuals who were previously ordered to be removed but obtained green cards/citizenship using false IDs. Whether or not that’s true or only a pretext to go fishing for any naturalized citizen they don’t like (bad politics, speaking out against the tRump regime, or whatever), is another matter. I wouldn’t bet against this becoming a widespread net.

    Melania, AFAIK, has never used an alias nor was she under a removal order at any point. Nonetheless, it seems clear that she lied about her activities while in the US on a visitor visa and those lies were perpetuated as part of her N-400 application.

  238. 238.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    On GOVERNMENT TIME…

    she’s trolling PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES…

    Worse, its her actual job. She’s the political commissor.

  239. 239.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: Honestly — I’m partially responsible for how fucked up it is — about 15 years ago, I knocked out a proffer agreement at the district court level, defendant was acquitted, so the government couldn’t appeal the ruling — hahahahaha. Took about 3 years for the issue to get to the 2d Circuit and the panel specifically overruled our decision as part of its ruling. I was soooo pissed. So messy and fucked up.

  240. 240.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    Donny Deautch was on MJ a couple of weeks ago and said essentially “in the end Michael will do what is best for him and his family”. Donny is a close friend of Michael (apparently) and he was very emphatic about that point, Cohen will do what is best for him and his family, his loyalty to Trump only goes as far as that. And if Trump throws him under the bus (which is what appears to be happening) Cohen will not think twice about throwing Trump under the bus to save his family. His family always comes first (to quote Donny). If this shit comes down the way it is expected to, Cohen will leave his family destitute, he has to protect his assets to at least give his wife and kids something to live on. If he does not flip and make a deal with Muller et. al., his assets WILL be seized, he can make a deal whereby his ill gotten gains are left in place to support his family. If he does not cooperate his assets will be seized and his family is fucked. “He will always do what is best for his family”. Think on that.

  241. 241.

    J R in WV

    @Yarrow:

    I noticed a severe, serious shortfall in Tick Tock, Mutherfuckers lately. Others pitched in to help out, but it wasn’t the same.

    Glad you’re back Yarrow, Tick Tock, Mutherfuckers!!!

  242. 242.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: Ha!! Excellent (for your first client especially). Do you do attorney-originated pre-proffers in the 2d?

  243. 243.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @HeleninEire:

    I have a case in Bowling Green that brings me into regular contact with lawyers who know and hate them both. It’s a long simmering neighbor feud, and Ron’s boy Rand has been poking the bear repeatedly for years while hiding behind his lofty office. The bear, unfortunately, has legitimate brain trauma from a car wreck and has been medically disabled from practicing medicine for years.

    The bear was unwilling to take another poking without acting. He tried doing an open plea in state court to the misdemeanor assault, but the feds are insisting that it is a separate crime to attack a senator.

  244. 244.

    TenguPhule

    @HeleninEire:

    Apparently Rand piled up his tree clippings on his own property but in view of the neighbor. And HE DID IT TWICE!!!! That’s what made the neighbor beat him so bad that 6 ribs were broken.

    Three times actually. And each time he dropped more piles of waste on the borderline. AND he blew leaves into the other guy’s yard.

    Sufficient reason for a homicide, let alone a beating.

  245. 245.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: I have, on occasion made “attorney proffers” on behalf of my clients — which I’m guessing is the same thing — where in I discuss what I expect my client could bring to the table as either a cooperator or to qualify for safety valve. I really, as a general rule, won’t allow client to sign proffer agreements — there’s very little upside.

    Is that the same an attorney-originated pre-proffer?

  247. 247.

    HeleninEire

    @Immanentize: OK so why, during the Valerie Plame/Scooter Libby debacle did Patrick Fitzgerald say that Ari Fleisher’s information was buying a “pig in a poke?” He didn’t have Fleishers information before Fleisher got immunity. Why?

  249. 249.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @TenguPhule:

    Like I said – poking the brain damaged bear while being very short, shady little shit that can’t take a punch.

  252. 252.

    Immanentize

    @HeleninEire: Basically, Proffers are for defendants to get leniency, immunity is for witnesses reluctant to testify (usually at the Grand Jury — but also beyond. Immunity takes away your fifth amendment rights as a witness, while the prosecution agrees not to use what you said either to charge you or to go out and find other evidence to charge you with. This is called “use and derivative use” immunity. But you can still be charged with anything you don’t discuss, and anything you do discuss if there is an independent source for the prosecution’s information. And they can try witnesses — and often do because it pisses them off — for false testimony (perjury) once immunity is granted. So, in short, Fleischer was given immunity for his testimony before the Grand Jury and beyond. He was never a defendant so did not enter into any kind of leniency agreement.

    I know that is a bit confusing — hope it helps. Gotta go catch a train!

  254. 254.

    HeleninEire

    @Amir Khalid: LOL. I love you. I’ve said more than once to my American friends something like “so I read an American political blog and there is a fabulous Malaysian man there who, whenever we have an English grammar or spelling question he has the answer.” Cuz Americans don’t do grammar. And we certainly do not learn other languages so that we can have context for English.

    All of that to say, thank you, Amir. Also, too ;) please do not correct my grammar on this post!!

  256. 256.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    I know it embarrasses you whenever we say this, but if we can do a fundraiser for Lily’s medical bills, we can do a fundraiser to pay off your taxes. You are just as valuable to us as she is!

  258. 258.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    @TenguPhule: It really sounded like Rand Paul was dumping the yard waste in that spot to piss off his neighbor on purpose.

  259. 259.

    thalarctosMaritimus

    @jacy: you’re on a roll lately–this is like the fourth quote of yours that I’m tucking away to use later.

  260. 260.

    Calouste

    @SC54HI: I can see this going the way of that voter ID crap. They find one guy who used a false ID, and then toss our everyone with the same first and last names; middle names, birthplace, age etc be dawned.

  261. 261.

    J R in WV

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    He [Trump] already had his own private security before he became POTUS.

    And I’ll bet those guys are as expert as all Trump’s federal appointees, who don’t know what their job description is at all. No wonder he’s nervous about losing Secret service protection… he knows his private security guys are $15/hr guys.

  263. 263.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    he has to protect his assets to at least give his wife and kids something to live on.

    His kids are adults, no? Why don’t they get a fucking job if they want something to live on?

  266. 266.

    Julia Grey

    @trollhattan:

    I do not see him quitting, but I’d be perfectly fine with a significant coronary event. Today would be good. Pence, we can knock out.

    Knock wood. It’s scary how often I see this kind of confidence about how easy it will be to get past Pence. I’m not at all sure about that.

    For one thing, following an ignominious Trump departure, you KNOW the press is going to reinvent Pence as a political salvation figure for the ages. They can’t let the Republicans down on that.

  267. 267.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:
    Thread is dead, but this is ridiculous. Most people don’t even know what the Emoulments clause is. They sure as fuck know that the President is term-limited. Stop being absurd.

    And all presidents get to keep their SS details after they leave office.

  272. 272.

    J R in WV

    @ruemara:

    Heh, here it is, for the third+ times:

    @Mnemosyne:

    if we can do a fundraiser for Lily’s medical bills, we can do a fundraiser to pay off your taxes.

    Or for Carol’s retirement plans which went askew due to no fault of her own…

    Me too! Shared burdens are light…

  276. 276.

    Platonailedit

    Given the subsequent clarifications, shouldn’t the title at least have a cavuto mark? Or is it just a clickbait?

  277. 277.

    CarolDuhart2

    @J R in WV: And by the way, thanks everyone. Things are much better now.

    As for Trump and Secret Service protection, Trump has a full regular detail and well as Melania out of office. Its the kids over 16 who don’t have SS protection any more. Also he doesn’t get to use the secure cars or of course, Air Force One.

    As for Pence replacing Trump not as easy as it looks: unlike LBJ and Ford, there will be little sympathy, and Pence has no charisma or base in the Party. I doubt if he even has the skills to reach out to anyone other than hard core Trumpers. The only feeling would be relief in that he wouldn’t blow up the world.

  278. 278.

    J R in WV

    @CarolDuhart2:

    Glad to know you’re doing well. Keep in touch!

    Retirement is a huge relief if you’ve had a stressful job.

    I worked in environmental protection, which everyone hates. Either you’re taking their jobs, or you’re NOT protecting their health, no in between. At least I didn’t make decisions and face the public, I was back-end support. But still, the whole place was full of negative energy.

  279. 279.

    Yarrow

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I don’t buy that story from Donny Deutch that makes Cohen sound like a nice family man. He grew up with mob ties and married into a Ukrainian immigrant family that seems to have very questionable relationships with the Russian mob. “Family” has more than one meaning here.

  280. 280.

    Platonailedit

    CNN: Michael Cohen might be cooperating

    MSNBC: Michael Cohen might be cooperating

    Fox News: Hillary Clinton used deep-state mind control to make Michael Cohen cooperate.

    NY Times: We are currently busy using a thesaurus to find a different word than cooperate. Stay tuned.

    — m i t h (@ManInTheHoody) June 13, 2018

  281. 281.

    waysel

    @Yarrow: I don’t buy the Donny Deutch story about Cohen being a big family man for the simple reason that Trump seems incapable of telling the truth. If he speaks, he lies.

  282. 282.

    Tokyokie

    @J R in WV: Donny Dollhands bought those security detail guys. And somebody would probably be willing to pay them considerably more.

  283. 283.

    Yarrow

    @waysel: Well, in this case it’s Donny Deutch telling the story that Cohen is a nice family man. We have to decide whether or not to believe him. Trump lies all the time, no question about that.

Comments are closed.