Michael Cohen’s lawyers aren’t going to be representing him after this week, and it looks like he’s going to cooperate with Mueller.
Update: As was pointed out in the comments, the “flip” part is ABC’s speculation. Cohen is definitely looking for new lawyers, and he may flip.
Update 2:
NEW: Per @KatyTurNBC, Michael Cohen has received word from federal prosecutors that they are preparing paperwork to arrest him.
— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) June 13, 2018
The Other Chuck
TICK TOCK, MOTHERFUCKERS.
Keith P.
Drink!
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
This is from my lawyer friend, who has worked with McDermott, Will & Emery extensively in the past:
“…I suspect the meter’s been running (not like his cabs, ha!) and he can’t pay, so they’re withdrawing. It also could be that they feel they’d be violating ethics obligations defending him if they’ve now seen lies. He’d have to get new counsel and likely start over, so my guess is that folks are speculating that his only real alternative is to cooperate if he can’t afford new counsel.
Also, remember that the campaign paid some of his legal fees, so would be interesting to know what’s going on there as well. Maybe the campaign said they’d only pay if he kept fighting and MWE is advising cooperation, so the campaign cut off payments?
All still sounds like speculation, will be interesting if new counsel is announced and if that will change this story.”
Yarrow
Trump, his family, his associates, and the traitor Republicans are fucked. Tick fucking tock, you traitorous motherfuckers.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So say it with the Republicans.
* Cohen only briefly represented Trump for thirty ro forty years of business dealings.
* Cohen is a plant on Trump from Deep State(tm)
* Who doesn’t bribe the cops to over look dead underage hookers using their lawyer?
HeleninEire
Bestest news.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@HeleninEire: Be best.
MisterForkbeard
Correction: I don’t think he’s flipped yet.
LAO
Premature celebration people — I think the WSJ gets it right. Cohen hasn’t decided whether he’s going to cooperate yet.
I expect he will, in the end, though.
Yarrow
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Gonna suck for Republicans when their top officials, elected and appointed, are also shown to be traitors. The entire party is traitorous. RICO the RNC.
germy
From what I see, ABC News is the only one reporting the flip. Other outlets are quoting ABC.
I’d like to see more confirmation before I pour champagne.
germy
The only confirmation I see so far is that his lawyers have left.
germy
Elizabelle
Maybe Giuliani can take on Cohen too. And where’s that ethical John Yoo?
I hope Cohen flips so hard he gets an Olympic medal for it.
JPL
@germy: I think that was the intent.
Trump’s tweets should be a tell.
chopper
@MisterForkbeard:
yeah, this seems like a trial balloon. either way i’m sure drumpf’s four hours of morning TV bliss is utterly ruined.
VeniceRiley
I’d prefer to see him in prison, since we have him on tape and all his documents. But, if he’s got more to give in testimony, I suppose a reduced 10 year sentence would be acceptable. Instead of, say, death penalty for treason.
rikyrah
@The Other Chuck:
Not Yarrow…but…
THIS.NEVER.EVER.GETS.OLD.
Mike in NC
Trump never met this guy Cohen. Couldn’t even pick him out of a lineup. Sad!
jacy
You know, the only silver lining of the 24/7 firehouse of shit is the it’s become normal for the news story of the moment to be eclipsed by the news story of the next moment. It sucks when moves an important outrage down in focus, but it also negates anything this shitshow administration touts as a win. In a week no one will even remember that Trump met with Kim. That’ll see like something that happened a thousand years ago.
It’s just a foot stepping on a dick forever.
The Other Chuck
@jacy:
Bravo. The Internet is yours today.
Trabb's Boy
My guess is that they quit because Cohen openly planned to lie. He’s not going to cooperate.
Barbara
I have no idea whether he is going to flip, but my interpretation of the overall situation is as follows: When the government asked for a DOJ taint team to review documents for privilege, that was the normal practice and is, essentially, free for the defendant. Instead, Cohen’s lawyers (probably at his direction) raised a stink about that process, and managed to get their own right of review and a special master who has now indicated that almost nothing is actually privileged. But in the mean time, by inserting themselves into the process they are literally reviewing hundreds of thousands of pages of non-privileged “stuff” — solely for privilege, mind you, not substance — and racking up huge fees to do so. They have also been going verrrrry slowwwwly and got called on it.
The whole thing reeks of delay, delay, delay, and now, my sense is, the lawyers have told Cohen to either agree to put up the money to continue trying to push this crazy expensive review or accept that the review is over and there is no point in resisting the government’s proposed plan for dealing with these documents.
Lawyers can’t just quit in a case like this even when they stop getting paid. This is more likely an argument over strategy. I don’t know that it really signals anything about flipping, so much as, he has run out of other cards to play.
JPL
@LAO: Cohen is looking for a federal defense attorney in NYC. hmm
Betty Cracker
@The Other Chuck: Seconded! So stealing that, @jacy!
piratedan
well depending upon the Trump crew to do the right thing is apparently a waste of time, so I’ll believe Cohen has done the deed when I see his ass on the stand giving dates and times….
to quote one of my favorite comedians (who has since passed) Ron Shock, “these people put the “R/(are)” in stupid….”
The Dangerman
Is EFG doing OK these days? We need a high quality Fuck ‘Em.
chopper
@The Dangerman:
last i saw he popped in on one thread to check in, had some hospital issues. haven’t heard since.
it just isn’t the same hearing ‘fuckem’ from others.
SiubhanDuinne
I hope this news is also giving Hannity a case of the gollywobbles.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Yarrow: Treason is going to be nothing next to the child brothel scandal that will pop up sooner or later (Trump’s Modeling Agency), or the fact that Trump pimped his own daughter. One thing is for sure the ability for conservatives and evangelicals to shrug it off is going to be amazing and even if the Dem sweep Congress next fall I don’t think anything will change. To much of the Right is locked in fantasy land to make an impeachment viable and the press will “both sides” kidnapping, rapping and murdering children tell the cows come home.
eclare
@The Dangerman: I’ve been wondering that myself, I think the last time I saw a post was maybe a week ago?
JPL
Supposedly an indictment is coming down, and Cohen is looking for an attorney more equipped to handle white collar crimes.
Must credit MSNBC
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Agreed. Running with the clock metaphor and borrowing from the nuclear clock, where are we on this investigation? I’m hoping it’s about 11:57.
LAO
@JPL: LOL! Only if I got the money upfront. A lot of money. I’d totally represent him (especially, if he wanted to flip).
MCA1
@JPL: Wait, what was the specialty of these McDermott guys, if not white collar crim def? It’s not like there was some suspicion Cohen was under investigation for kidnapping, or that the feds were gonna bring an antitrust suit or something. This has been about white collar crimes from the get-go.
scav
So, what is it they call it when a gymnast does her preliminary run and then pauses slightly before doing the corner to corner run of flip combinations? Will there be some astonishing new triple gazizwit inverted razzleflop or just the safe usual routine? Will the judges from Russia somehow have radically different scores for the run once completed? That slight pause of anticipation grips the crowd.
Cheryl Rofer
Another rumor: Cohen is sending a smoke signal to Trump for help.
sukabi
@Betty Cracker: now if you can find the Nat geo footage from many years ago of an excited bull elephant running and stomping his dick and trumpeting, because “omg stomped my dick” that would be awesome?
I almost died laughing when I saw that…
Ohio Mom
@chopper: I’ve been wondering the same thing. Not hearing anything from or about old efg is worrisome.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@jacy:
As said by O’Brion in the updated 1984 as Winston is strapped to a chair and forced to watch a cartoon of a rat screaming endless obscenities to a laugh tract. The book will end as Winston and Julia drink lattes in a Starbucks to celibate the taking of Vancouver, because we’ve always been at war with Canada.
dr. bloor
@West of the Rockies: It’s been 11:57 since Nixon sabotaged the Paris peace talks.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Is the EU Eastasia in this scenario?
MisterForkbeard
@Cheryl Rofer: This is my interpretation – he’s telling Trump he MIGHT flip if Trump doesn’t either pay for his lawyers or pre-emptively pardon him.
HeleninEire
@LAO: Hi LAO. Can you explain why flipping is necessary? Mueller has all the documents. How much can Cohen contribute beyond that?
Also, too? I TOLD YOU weeks ago that you should get your defence attorney hands on all of that wingnut welfare $$$$$.
The Dangerman
@chopper:
Nope.
Get well, as applicable, EFG, you’re our Jim Healy (SoCal people will know the reference) of Fuck ‘Ems.
Cheryl Rofer
@Cheryl Rofer: Maggie H says that it is not a smoke signal.
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire:
Authentication and context.
HeleninEire
@Omnes Omnibus: Ahhh, thank you.
SiubhanDuinne
@The Dangerman: @eclare:
I just phoned and left a message asking him or mrs efg to phone with whatever message I might pass along to BJ. Said we all miss him and love him and hope he is recovering nicely. Said best would be if he could comment directly but if spotty wifi makes that difficult I would be glad to convey whatever they’re comfortable sharing with the jackals. Will let you know when and if I hear back.
LAO
@HeleninEire: I know — you gave me some solid career advice — I have to get off my lazy ass.
Omnes answered your other question, but I will add that the feds (or Team USA, as we like to call them) really like to beat a dead horse and the best way to do that is recruit as many cooperators as it can.
Tokyokie
@Yarrow:
A jackal after my own heart.
The Other Chuck
@MisterForkbeard: A pardon means Cohen goes to prison for obstruction if he doesn’t flip. To say nothing of the obstruction charges the pardon itself would bring.
MattF
@MisterForkbeard: IANAL, however, my understanding is that pre-emptive pardoning is a bad idea for Trump. It means that Cohen could no longer take the 5th if he’s questioned. Ooops.
Manyakitty
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: This!!! I’ve been pointing this out for a long time. he pimped Ivanka out to John Casablancas so he could get access to more little girls for himself.
debit
@MisterForkbeard:
IANAL. but if Trump pardons him, then wouldn’t Cohen be compelled to testify without being able to plead the 5th Amendment? And if he lied, wouldn’t that be another crime? So, what does Trump gain from pardoning him?
ETA: Yeah, what everyone else said.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you!
japa21
@Cheryl Rofer: And you believe Maggie H because…?
Yarrow
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The child trafficking and prostitution story is going to be horrific.
I can’t wait for the laundering of Russian money through evangelical organizations to be made public. It’s coming. That’s going to be very interesting to watch. These people are all in bed together–NRA, evangelical churches and organizations, Republicans, Russia.
Death Panel Truck
@japa21: And you believe Chief White House Stenographer Maggie H because…?
Fixed.
The Dangerman
@eclare:
Ditto (the good kind, damn Rush anyway).
JPL
It would best if something happened soon
http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/13/trumps-vino-vixen-compiles-loyalty-list-of-u-s-employees-at-u-n-state-mari-stull-political-appointee-state-department-international-organization-united-nations-political-retribution-chaos-dysfunction/
Cheryl Rofer
@japa21: We report, you decide.
LAO
@Cheryl Rofer: I don’t think it’s a smoke signal either. Cohen is still attached to the RNC, he could easily get a private message through to Trump. I think Cohen’s lawyers only signed on to do the privilege check, and it’s been onerous and expensive — Cohen doesn’t have the means to finance a high power defense and he’s panicking in private to his so-called friends. Those friends, apparently are willing to talk to the press.
Cohen hasn’t decided to cooperate, I think he’s merely weighing some pretty dismal options.
chopper
@debit:
exactly. cohen is basically boxed in here, which means trump has no real room to maneuver.
chopper
@Ohio Mom:
he did mention that the hospital had shitty wifi so he could only drive-by. but that was a while back, so i hope he isn’t still there.
Ohio Mom
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks very much. Hope the efgs interpret the call less as nudging and more that we are very, very concerned and also pulling for him. Because that’s what it is.
chopper
@JPL:
what the hell were his previous attorneys supposed to be equipped for?
Omnes Omnibus
@chopper:
Asbestos abatement?
chopper
@Omnes Omnibus:
seems about right for all the good they did him.
West of the Rockies
@chopper:
They were the DUI kings of Queens!
Immanentize
@LAO: LAO — What do you think? Most of the flippers who I represented said they were NOT GOING TO FLIP! long after the cooperation began. This public will he/won’t he is outside my experience.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ohio Mom:
Absolutely. Have lost track of time, but maybe a year or so ago (?) when he was in hospital sorting out the dialysis routine, I did the same and there was no sense that we were being intrusive or nosy — just concerned and sending warm wishes.
sukabi
@chopper: maybe he’s looking for lawyers who have actual white collar crime experience…not the defense of, just the experience.
“I need new passports, a way out of the country, and a safe place to land. Can you make it happen?”
Interview questions for his new attornies.
Ruckus
@jacy:
It’s just a foot standing on a dick forever.
Do not forget the golf shoes while that standing is happening. It’s always that extra little touch that sets this entire fucking disaster apart.
Immanentize
@MattF: Thisis true. And then to refuse to testify can be punished by criminal contempt (think Susan McDougal). And lying will be punished with perjury charges which the President, I assume, could then pardon….
I am interested in the pardon power for contempt. I understand that the President, as chief prosecutor, has power over the executive aspects of crime. But contempt — even criminal contempt — is a Judiciary power. This is the dispute still happening in regard to (future Senator?) Joe Arpaio.
TenguPhule
@VeniceRiley:
Nah, he still gets the death penalty for treason. But he gets to go out fast and clean.
LAO
@Immanentize: So true — the desire not to appear to be rat is strong even in those that are cooperating! I, actually, don’t think Cohen will cooperate — i think he may try to cooperate but I expect he will be unable/unwilling to disclose EVERY PRIOR bad act/crime he has committed outside of his relationship with Trump. Which, of course, the Feds will require before tendering that sweet cooperation agreement and the nebulous promise of a 5K1 letter.* His new lawyers better forgo signing a “proffer agreement” or Cohen will really be screwed when Team USA rejects him.
*5K1 letter is the letter the government promises to write on behalf of a criminal defendant outlining all of his/her cooperation and the extent of how truthful and helpful he/she was to the government. There is no promised sentence, a sentence is always up to the Judge.
Frankensteinbeck
@germy:
Trump is a mean narcissist who believes only in zero-sum solutions. He doesn’t understand the concept of protecting someone loyal to him so they will protect him in return. As long as you’re still providing him useful service he will keep you in jobs close to him so you can do so, but the moment you’re any kind of danger, Trump goes looking for a bus to throw you under.
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I think this is likely, but those are Hella hard to get enough evidence to prosecute. Too many easy ‘I have no idea what she does in her free time’ and ‘Don’t be silly, I just had dinner with him’ type excuses. Trump would have to be a complete moron for there to be a trackable trail…
Oh.
Cross that one off your list of hopes. It would be so small scale, nobody but the Trumps themselves or an intelligence service that was spying on them would have evidence. It’s just possible Russia would out Trump selling Ivanka’s services or sleeping with her himself, because Putin has a record of pushing the scandal back into view if it dies down. Seems pretty damned unlikely. No other IC is going to, because they won’t have evidence usable in a court and merely embarrassing him won’t be worth betraying how much they know.
ET
I know that loosing ones lawyers particularly in the middle of something like this is a big deal. Obviously if he wasn’t paying his bills or not cooperating with his lawyers he could be dropped and if he felt those lawyers didn’t know what they were doing he could drop them. Obviously if he is going to cooperate things have changed for him and with this phase it may mean it would be a time for new lawyers but still this seems like there is a story there.
TenguPhule
@jacy:
To the contrary, that photo of them shaking hands is going to go down as the next Rumsfield meeting with Saddam.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@TenguPhule: We could give them a menu of the various medieval executions Trump’s new North Korean best buddy has done. Fed to dogs, shot with anti-aircraft missile, etc
debbie
@LAO:
I think also anything that ups Trump’s agita would be a bonus win.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer:
Trump is just as likely to send a man with a pillow to smother Cohen with.
Anonymous At Work
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
There isn’t a good scenario for Cohen under any of the possibilities because he isn’t letting his current team go to hire better lawyers. That would have been obvious. Any scenario for Cohen, therefore, is bad news.
sherparick
Meanwhile, in the American ethnic cleansing that is underway. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/13/california-woman-in-shock-after-ice-agents-detain-father-a-legal-resident-outside-home/
When Sessions talks about illegals, he is not just talking about those who came the last 20 years, he is talking about all immigrants under the 1965 law, which he considers an illegal law, and their children and grandchildren. He wants to “Whiten” America.
JPL
From emptywheel
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer:
It is amusing and makes ironic sense, since the lawyers write the laws, that paying for the underlings’ lawyers is NOT considered obstruction of justice.
More lawyers get paid (in theory, given the present discussion).
LAO
And so it begins (soon):
jacy
@TenguPhule:
But it won’t be important. Nothing matters for long anymore. And won’t until there’s a major upheavel that sets things on a more normal path.
I choose to think of it like the old Twilight Zone episode “The Monsters are Due on Maple Street.” We’re living in a panicked mob mentality right now, but some massive event or series of events will happen to regain order. Those who participated in the worst of it will slink back to their homes and pretend nothing ever happened, or even actually believe nothing did. At least that’s what I hope….
jl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
” medieval executions Trump’s new North Korean best buddy has done. Fed to dogs, shot with anti-aircraft missile, etc ”
So, that’s what they used anti-aircraft missiles for, before they had aircraft. Huh? Who wudda thunk?
rikyrah
California woman ‘in shock’ after ICE agents detain father, a legal resident, outside home
By ELIZABETH CHOU and BRENDA GAZZAR | Southern California News Group
PUBLISHED: June 13, 2018 at 6:39 am | UPDATED: June 13, 2018 at 6:53 am
TenguPhule
Real man of genius. //
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
Trump isn’t Nucky Thompson. He just likes to play at being an autocrat like Putin.
TenguPhule
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Anti-aircraft guns. They used old style flak cannons on that general.
Impressive, but messy.
rikyrah
Today the House is holding a markup session on an appropriations bill. Section 112 of this bill would allow tax-exempt churches to endorse political candidates.
Urge your Members of Congress to keep the religious right’s dark money out of politics https://t.co/JmuqQAoN0p pic.twitter.com/oiH7VGHDve
— Secular Coalition for America (@seculardotorg) June 13, 2018
? Martin
Cohen will flip. And if Trump were to pardon Cohen now, this would only strengthen Muellers obstruction case against Trump. I mean, what could be more obviously obstruction of justice? And Cohen will still be fucked when the state of New York takes over the elements of the case that can be prosecuted at the state level, and Cohen is fully aware he’d be MUCH more comfortable in a fed joint than up in Ossining.
Granted, this is all just theater. The only way to put an end to this is to vote Republicans out.
chopper
@LAO:
man, trump could barely even get one decent positive news cycle out of the NK talk.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: There are 10,000 ICE agents in the USA. All of em are going to have to be shipped to the Hague when this is over.
Immanentize
@sherparick: The 1965 immigration law, which favored family reunification, was in fact intended to whiten immigration. Irish, Italian, protestants, etc. were the target of that law. Ooopsie, unintended consequences over time.
LAO
And, it’s about the $$$$.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: At this point I put no criminal action beyond Trump’s reach. We can only execute them once for their crimes. They have no incentives not to keep on going in their attempts to defy justice.
West of the Rockies
@LAO:
Perp Walk Time! Cue “From Russia with Love.”
Jeffro
@jacy:
As many have already noted, oh, WIN.
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: Real old school? Or pals in Uzbekistan — boiled in oil. I now understand they are freezing dissidents there. “Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice….”
Joyce H
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I genuinely expect Trump to resign, when the House flips if not before. I don’t understand the people who insist that he’ll never quit – he ALWAYS quits. Once he concludes that the situation he’s in is screwed up beyond all repair (never acknowledging that he’s the one who screwed it up) and that he’s not going to get anything more out of it in the areas of monetary gain or ego gratification, he just walks away and leaves the mess behind for someone else to clean up.
He was sounding at the end of his tether as long ago as several months ago, and I concluded the only thing keeping him hanging on was the prospect of the NK summit and the chance that he might somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat and gain a great victory and the whole world will recognize it and give him the adulation he so richly deserves. He’s posturing like that’s what happened, but look around – he knows better. The media isn’t buying it, the public isn’t buying it.
The dirty deals that he’s been able to conduct in secret when he was a private citizen leave a paper trail and Mueller has been hoovering them up for a year now. Cohen’s got him on AUDIO and lord knows what that means – Trump sure doesn’t. He can’t even remember what he said to Cohen in their numerous phone calls, but he knows it can’t be good.
Add to that a Congress performing their mandated oversight duties, think about Adam Schiff with subpoena power. Trump won’t even wait for the new Congress to be sworn in. He’ll be out of there.
chopper
@LAO:
LOLz, but doesn’t it seem odd that federal prosecutors would tell the guy that they’re “preparing paperwork” to arrest him?
JPL
@rikyrah: It’s been reported that they are also looking for inaccuracies when applying for citizenship. Be prepared for some being stripped of their citizenship.
I’m sick.
Immanentize
@LAO: As I keep hoping, Mueller just needs to keep taking pieces off the board.
West of the Rockies
@TenguPhule:
I would like to think that some of them despise what they are doing (apparently not enough to quit though).
I also wish the significant others and daughters and sons of these agents look at them with decreasing affection and pride.
West of the Rockies
@Immanentize:
When do we get to see Trump down to a blocked pawn and his king?
LAO
@chopper: No — it’s typical in white collar cases, especially with extensive investigations, that the defendant is given notice. When you represent an individual during an investigation, it’s fairly easy to see and understand where the government is in the process.
Joyce H
@chopper:
The media has a quota of good news per news cycle – and that darn raccoon took it!
The Dangerman
OK, I’m coming up with my own variation; apologies to the originators for my outright theft:
To Cohen, “Tick, TALK, Motherfucker”.
jacy
@Joyce H:
I think he’ll quit too. Narcissists can’t stand failure — and when the failure starts to hammer him he will withdraw from it and declare himself the winner. Why do you think everyone around him curates his inputs so severely? They’re trying to keep him from bolting. As I’ve said before, he’s an ameba — the stimuli gets painful enough the only thing he can do is run from it. (Or to be more accurate, ooze away from it as fast as his blobby self can manage.)
chopper
@LAO:
good to know. the wording sounded odd, like one of those spam calls where someone tells you “the IRS is preparing an arrest warrant in your name”.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize: If we want to be particularly cruel ,we turn them over to the Afghan women for disposal. Kipling put it best.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
EU and the Asian Allies would be still Oceania. The update will add Fortress America(tm) to the traditional mix. Fortress America(tm) will be unique that the InSoc Party collapsed when the US Supreme Court ruling allowed fictional characters to run for public office. Everyone knows Big Brother isn’t real and it doesn’t matter to them.
LAO
Is there some formal competition, I’m unaware of?
trollhattan
@Joyce H: @jacy:
Wish I could believe so but do not–to the contrary Trump never fails, just ask him. Each time something doesn’t go His Way it’s because somebody else failed and/or Forces of Evil and/or Crooked Hillary intervened using their Dark State superpowers. To repurpose the old line: Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed.
I do not see him quitting, but I’d be perfectly fine with a significant coronary event. Today would be good. Pence, we can knock out.
TenguPhule
@Joyce H:
He can’t walk away because all roads out of office lead to prison or death. Trump has finally found real power and he’s not giving it up.
This is lord of the rings level obsession he’s got. The power of life and death in his tiny tiny hands.
Immanentize
@West of the Rockies: Frankly, not necessarily too many months from now if things stay on this path. I think that Mueller will either release some report about Trump (maybe on the Comey obstruction issue, maybe even half- clearing Trump) in July or we will not hear a thing about Trump until after the election in November. Likewise, more indictments for others until labor day, but then, quiet. That would be playing it straight by DOJ standards. Now the prosecutions that are already in motion — they will proceed apace. But who knows? this situation is so crazy and unique….
chopper
@trollhattan:
he even said himself as to the NK ‘deal’, if it fails, he’ll just come up with an excuse.
TenguPhule
@West of the Rockies:
Anyone with pride and common sense should have left already. If they’re still there, they know what they did.
Fuck em.
sukabi
@chopper: all they need is that last phone call, encripted text or email to see what else they can nail him on. What better way to get that last little bit than to say, “hey, pack a toothbrush we’re picking you up tomorrow”
Maybe they’re hoping he’ll make a run for it and can snatch him at an airfield.
Jeffro
@Immanentize:
Your hope is the likely strategy. Can’t indict the president*? O-kay. We’ll just indict every criminal around him, aka every person in his administration and the Trump Org to boot.
@West of the Rockies:
Can’t we just wall him up in the Oval Office, Cask of Amontillado-style? It’d make quite an exhibit for tour groups and kids on field trips once the now-hopelessly tarnished WH becomes a museum and/or an object lesson for posterity.
2052: “And here, children, is where Donald “Don the Con” Trump was left for eternity in the office he desired so much…so much that he betrayed his own country, can you imagine?? (spits at bricks) Ah well, such is the fate of traitors!
Now then…if we hurry a bit, we can make it to the unveiling of the Obama Monument on the Mall…”
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
He’ll have to give it up eventually, even if he wins in 2020; term limits.
Kay
Another low quality Trump hire:
They’re great managers! yes sir. I love that they’re not just authoritarian creeps who worship at the altar of Donald Trump, they’re also incompetents.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
A desperate man will do anything to avoid the inevitable.
Joyce H
@trollhattan:
Oh, he reframes it in his mind so that he didn’t fail, but he DOES walk away. He walked away from Atlantic City, he walked away from the USFL, he walked away from Trump University. He ALWAYS quits. If you ask him, he’d say he never quits, but he always quits.
piratedan
job 1 if we take back control of the legislative process of this country
litigate these treasonous bastards into prison, using the rule of law…and I mean ALL of them. Everybody pays. Make guidelines into laws, no more of this ignoring the law bullshit, no more of the violation of the “spirit of the law” but not the letter of the law.
We roll back all of this bullshit and then we also have to go after the mastermind itself, is essentially make Putin a walking corpse… just mho
West of the Rockies
@trollhattan:
Today works for me, too. Everybody else?
chopper
@Jeffro:
“daddy, why is it called the Truncated Oval Office?”
“well, son, it all goes back to 2016…”
Gravenstone
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I know, we’re only talking degrees of bad here, but one strives for accuracy in accounting atrocities
Brachiator
Been away from the Internets and just saw this.
It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Joyce H:
If Trump does resign be prepared to hear from his worshippers, who can’t comprehend that he’s a thin-skinned narcissist who quits when the going gets tough, that he was “forced” to resign by the evil deep state.
Calouste
@JPL: The regime was arguing in court a few months back that any discrepancy on an immigration form should be disqualifying, whether material or not. The judge tossed that out then, but I’m sure they will be back before long in front of one of Donnie Dementia’s handpicked “judges” and they’ll win. And there is so much paperwork to immigration that mistakes or inaccuracies or almost unavoidable.
West of the Rockies
@Jeffro:
Yes, let’s go all Poe on his fat ass! And deal with the two princes (include Jared and make it three) a la the London Tower method?
cmorenc
@Trabb’s Boy:
Lies will only work in court if the prosedutors can’t prove the witness / defendant wrong using his own documents, transactions, and past words to contradict the lie they’re trying to push on the judge / jury / prosecutors. The tiny portion of the voluminous amounts of Cohen docs, devices, and conversations the special master has found priviliged would be a clue even a very slow-witted bear should realize makes it unlikely he can successfully lie his way out convictions resulting in a very long jail term.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
It’s a bridge too far for anyone except his most hardcore of worshippers. It’s a constitutional amendment he’d be violating, not an unwritten norm.
Aleta
We will be fine!
(djt)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@TenguPhule:
I think you are still projecting way to much of a normal person’s thinking on President Jeffry Lanaster there. All president trip out on the power, Trump’s different that is his vision is so petty. Instead of trying for peace in NK, Trump went for some condos.
Cheryl Rofer
@Kay: The Soviet practice was to have Party members in secondary positions in all agencies to enforce Party discipline.
Gelfling 545
@Trabb’s Boy: I figure that since they were being paid by the RNC they left when Cohen’s interests and those of the RNC diverged.
hitless
@Calouste: And yet Kush can have 200 “omissions” on his clearance form, and that’s OK. Mistakes happen.
Such meritocracy.
LAO
@Trabb’s Boy:@cmorenc: It’s about the $$$$.
The Dangerman
@piratedan:
…is clean up the media. I watched FOX for a while last night and the fellating of Trump was sickening; I’m all for free speech, but we all know there are limits (fire, crowded theater) and the pure propaganda outlets (it was pure and it was deep) needs to be addressed.
Kay
@Cheryl Rofer:
The jobs must absolutely suck, even for the loyalists:
Trump lied about the deal and now they all have to spend the next six months lying to cover his ass. No wonder they’re all so nasty, and lashing out at immigrant children. It sucks to work for him.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Joyce H: Ya’ I could see Trump quitting under that, the idea that Trump would have to sit there and take it while the Dems went threw Trump’s life inch by inch would be to much for Trump. But Trump would do it in the most dickish way possible – basically calling on his base to avenge him and doing his best to screw Pence too.
MomSense
@scav:
I used to call it catching her breath before the tumbling pass.
JPL
@LAO: lol How long will the judge give him to find another attorney?
TenguPhule
@Joyce H:
His prior desertions didn’t end with him committing suicide by drowning himself in the bathtub and stuffing himself into a duffel bag. Trump knows the moment he loses full Secret Service protection, he’s fucked.
LAO
@JPL: They are going to finish the privilege review. Cohen hasn’t been arrested yet — he’ll certainly have one at arraignment.
VeniceRiley
Just read on twitter Cohen has a new lawyer already, but news source did not have a name. (ETA: Laura Rozen quoting Jennifer Hansler) I want a perp walk.
TenguPhule
@Kay: They’re already demanding that reporters who ask them questions like that lose their credentials.
Death Panel Truck
@chopper: I’ve gotten a couple of those calls. In the second one, I was told that I “would be taken under custody by the local cops.” Still waiting for them to show up.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@trollhattan:
Oh I agree, that’s why I said Trump would do it in the most dickish way possible – he would find someone on his own side to blame the failure on, scream about being belayed and then leave. (Picture Trump returning to his building in NYC and never resigning, just sulking in his apartment)
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
He already had his own private security before he became POTUS.
Immanentize
@cmorenc: They already turned Cohen’s Taxi business partner. Cohen is doomed. Unless he has something to sell to the prosecutors. I think the reports that losing his attorneys because of money is probably the most likely scenario. But it is also possible that Cohen refuses to flip, and his attorneys have advised he should. Strongly advised. Now as someone upstairs said, real defense attorneys breeze past this point is many many cases. But some white shoe fellows don’t like to be ignored.
Brachiator
@Kay:
Wait. I’m sorry. What?
This may be a half-assed, fundamentally incompetent regime, but it is steadfastly authoritarian. It’s weird that people are worried about the media or somebody normalizing Trump, but his hires easily adapt to and normalize Trump’s thuggish insistence of a regime based on loyalty to the Dear Leader. North Korea’s Kim could take lessons from Trump on how to create a cult of personality.
Cleaning this shit up will take a long time. But it will be critical.
droog
Proverbs 18:18 (King Tiny Hands Version)
Immanentize
@LAO: I have seen judges refuse to allow attorneys to withdraw if the only issue is money (and Cohen’s attorneys have already received at least a quarter of a million from the Trump campaign). I can’t imagine the judge will let them off the case immediately, or unless there is an entirely new phase of the matter, a true conflict, or another attorney files an appearance.
trollhattan
@TenguPhule:
Seem to recall that as a poison pill aimed at the Big Dog Republicans shortened the term of former president Secret Service protection from lifetime to a decade. “Fuck you, Clinton, ha-ha-ha!” Donny may be looking at actuarial tables and counting years on his delicate fingers.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
He’s already violating the ennoulments clause and they’re cheering him on. He’s violating the records retention act and they don’t care. He’s picking a fight with FUCKING CANADA while fellating North Korea and they’re cheerleading him.
Yeah no, there is no bridge to nowhere that’s too far for them.
LAO
@Immanentize: Hey (Waves Arms) — I think it likely that the feds will not offer Cohen a cooperation agreement because Cohen will not be truthful about all of his prior bad acts/criminal conduct outside of Trumpland– I expect he’ll proffer but be left with nothing. What say you?
LAO
@Immanentize: Agreed, but remember — Cohen hasn’t be arrested/arraigned, yet. The attorneys have agreed to say on to finish the privilege review. I don’t think they have an obligation to remain it’s completed.
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
Do I recall correctly the feds began investigating Cohen well before the campaign? He’s such a busy boy, they could have a vast collection of intel on him and his…clients.
TenguPhule
@trollhattan: Reversed with President Obama. That’s why W Bush still gets limited protection and hasn’t suffered a tragic accident yet. But the level of protection drops once out of office, which Trump will not survive and he knows it.
debit
@TenguPhule:
Why do you imagine the Russians want him dead? They don’t care what he does after; he could go to jail or stay on permanent vacation. He’s already done what they want, and when it’s revealed that he’s been Putin’s puppet all along, they’ll have a good laugh and point and mock the US for being so stupid. “You’re so gullible, McFly!” With us, obviously, being George McFly.
I think Trump hangs in there like grim death because if he doesn’t have the DOJ and Congress to help him, then he’s well and truly on his way to prison. As long as he has some power, he can (he thinks) avoid serious consequences.
Immanentize
@LAO: Agree. That would be one hell of a proffer, no? They have so much on him, the discussions about him failing to include criminal behavior would go on for months? I used to tell clients offered immunity to start with the change they stole from their parent’s dresser and just keep going. I kind of miss those days.
ETA Unless Cohen has one very juicy thing to tell….
Jeffro
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Picture him flying off to the UAE, or even Russia. Air Force One, used by a traitor president* to flee the country. Why not? The script for this rather irritating political thriller hasn’t been realistic for over two years now…
chopper
@Death Panel Truck:
is that anything like “the mashal of the supreme court tells trump that impeachment proceedings have begun”?
Aleta
Must find leaker now! (3/2017)
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Useful for bullying contractors and keeping the street riffraff off him.
Less then useless against Russians, Mossad, MI6 or even our own CIA.
Immanentize
@LAO: I thought that the attorneys might only be retained up until the end of the document review…. Then, he better be shopping for counsel. I’m sure some new Thomas Cooley grads need work.
rikyrah
@Joyce H:
Maxine Waters with subpoena power.
Ted Lieu with subpoena power.
Makes me smile.
JPL
@VeniceRiley: That answers my question to LAO..
trollhattan
Lordy, here’s something to revel in.
Hilarity ensues.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
if this were a movie, the critics would be calling this beyond absurd.
LAO
@Immanentize: The proffer would be daily for at least a month. And, the “one big thing” scenario would certainly be interesting.
rikyrah
@JPL:
I know…I know…
Me too.
trollhattan
@TenguPhule:
Didn’t realize Obama corrected that. Good on him.
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
No argument from me.
TenguPhule
@debit:
Putin has a history of cleaning up loose ends. Trump is every loose.
Also, if I were a creative European or Israeli IC agency, I’d love to frame Russia for it and kill two birds with one stone.
Hell, if I were China, I’d love to fuck with two global rivals at the same time and watch them go at it.
Immanentize
@Kay:
Have you noticed this is the go-to answer for all the Trump people? Sarah Sanders particularly: “That question is insulting/ridiculous/etc.”
It’s code for “you caught us.” If it’s so ridiculous, why not just answer it?
debit
@TenguPhule: I dunno, I think you’re assuming anyone outside of his kids would actually care. The press conference would go like this: “This morning, overnight janitors found former President Trump dead in a duffle bag. This is terrible, terri-oh, who are kidding? In a duffle bag! Bwah hahahaha!!”
Oklahomo
@jacy: I’d like to see the fucking Monty Python foot come down on all of them.
rikyrah
@LAO:
Competing shade from dictionary rivals…
LMAO!!
Immanentize
@trollhattan: Yes, I think he has been scrutinized for quite a while. The taxi business in many cities suddenly got new looks by prosecutors when rideshare companies started taking market and the value of medallions plunged. Even in Boston it has been pretty nasty to see the taxi owners pointing fingers at eacother. Indictments at 11.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jeffro: or try to take sanctuary in Puerto Rico…
I am thinking the Trump Tower because he would have it both ways – Trump is still president with all of the privileges even though he refuses to excise his powers as president.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Shit Sandwich tastes like shit.
TenguPhule
Uh huh.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Does anyone find it significant that Mueller may put the screws to Cohen this weekend, with Father’s Day this Sunday? If you wanted a man to consider a long time in jail away from his family vs cooperating with the investigators, wouldn’t Father’s Day weekend be the best weekend to do so?
TenguPhule
Every single word in that tweet is a lie. Every. single. word.
chopper
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
maybe. as to father’s day, i know he has kids but i think they’re in college. personally i think cohen is one of those guys that only looks out for himself.
Gin & Tonic
@TenguPhule: Actually pretty perfect, from a guy who thinks exercise is bad for you. So running exercises to make sure your personnel and materiel are ready for the task is probably just as much of a waste.
debbie
@Kay:
Pompeo deserves his own special place in hell, hopefully near Navarro’s.
ruemara
@rikyrah: And y’all wonder why I’m hemming and hawing because of taxes.
Immanentize
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: I agree the timing is great — but Mueller is not (technically) in these particular discussions. It’s the SDNY US Attny that is handling Cohen’s stuff.
West of the Rockies
@TenguPhule:
I really want to see pasty-faced Kushner go down (followed by Ivanka’s vocal-fried keening and lamentations).
I read that they “earned” 82 million last year. Bull f-ing shit.
rikyrah
Pompeo Presser ??
https://twitter.com/OswaldRachel/status/1006960656166342658
Frodo
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “The ring only gives power according to the moral stature of the bearer” (Gandalf, paraphrased)
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: Including “a” and “in”
But her emails!!!
@TenguPhule:
War games do cost a bit, although significantly less than what the cost in blood and treasure would be if there was a war on the Korean peninsula and the US, Japanese and South Korean forces didn’t know how to work together effectively.
Captain C
@sukabi: I’m reminded of a line from a book (I think the Shrodinger’s Cat Trilogy):
“As an ethical lawyer, I can’t tell you what I think. An unethical attorney, were he here, would frankly advise you to leave the country.”
West of the Rockies
@West of the Rockies:
Little dweeb has his security clearance back, too. Where the hell is the karma ball? Why isn’t it rolling over some fools?
Immanentize
@Captain C: There are times when bolting far away and starting over is a smart play. But my clients never seemed to choose the right time or the right situation.
HeleninEire
@LAO: Can they use the “proffer” (sorry if the grammar is wrong) [see ETA] that he gives them even if he decides not to flip or if they don’t give him a deal? Or does the 5th amendment kick in?
ETA is “proffer” a verb or a noun?
TenguPhule
@Immanentize:
After they pay you and before the verdict is reached?
rikyrah
@ruemara:
I don’t wonder.
I’m not remotely making light of it. I wish for you that these were different times, but I just wish for you the security of citizenship.
If you ain’t White, citizenship is the best bet, but yeah, that tax situation must be taken care of.
LAO
@HeleninEire: It can be both — and you used it correctly. The short answer is, if you sign a proffer agreement in the SDNY but do not ultimately sign a cooperation agreement — a defendant can open the door to that evidence being used against him/her at trial. An explainer that’s slightly technical. Under 2d Circuit case law, a defendant is better off not signing a proffer agreement — even if they are proffering.
rikyrah
London Breed feels her life experience can guide the city
Raised on the rough side of San Francisco, she believes her bruised hometown can be made to shine once again
By Heather Knight
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: No, I don’t wonder at all. Talk to an immigration attorney and take the step. See what they say because you still have to deal with the USCIS when you have to renew your GC.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan:
He will not have to remove his shoes to count, if you get my drift. At least according to fairly standard tables and making some baseline assumptions, taking his public medical report at face value.
HeleninEire
@JPL: They’re gonna look into Melania’s application too, right. We already have the proof that she’s illegal.
TenguPhule
@Gin & Tonic:
You can’t be saying that with a straight face.
sdhays
@West of the Rockies: This reminds me of something Avenatti said months ago: “We’re playing chess, they (Trump et al) are planning tic-tac-toe.”
Immanentize
@HeleninEire: I’ll take the Q, but LAO may add later?
“Proffer” is a noun for the thing which one “proffers.”
Rule 410 of the Federal Rules of Evidence is pretty clear that, except in special circumstances, “a statement made during plea discussions with an attorney for the prosecuting authority if the discussions did not result in a guilty plea” is “not admissible against the defendant who made the plea or participated in the plea discussions.”
Also, in the early phases, it is the attorney who will make statements, not the client, thereby protecting them even further (as it would be a version of hearsay as well). So, at first, it goes like this usually goes like this — the attorney writes to the prosecutor a sort of “just sayin’ memo:”
“If my client were in a position to discuss matters without fear of prosecution or other consequences, he might be able to supply information about the following things….” But of course, a prosecutor can’t take the word of the attorney, so if the info. looks valuable, the prosecutor will make a semi-offer of leniency in exchange for a truthful debrief by the client/defendant. This is all considered “discussions” under Rule 410 above. Then, if the info. is good, the prosecutor will make an agreement to write a nice letter to the judge — and the federal “probation office” who is responsible for writing the pre-sentence report upon which judges rely for sentencing.
Once you are in this process, never screw around.
chopper
@Gin & Tonic:
after macron was done shaking his hand, there was an imprint left for a while. that level of edema screams ‘heart patient’. never mind the bucket of colonel with a pint of ‘dippin gravy’ that makes up his lunch as he watches tv every single day.
Immanentize
@LAO: Sorry, I got carried away — your answer is perfect.
TenguPhule
Now we know who did it.
The four-minute video in Korean and English was credited to Destiny Pictures, but owner of firm with same name said he had ‘no involvement’
dmsilev
@TenguPhule:
I’ll take “Desperately seeking ways of using words to say nothing” for $400.
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
Lips so pursed.
LAO
@Immanentize: It’s all fucked up in the 2d Circuit, I posted a link in #207.
ETA: maybe it’s fucked up everywhere?
rikyrah
@Kay:
On GOVERNMENT TIME…
she’s trolling PERSONAL SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES…
Aleta
@ruemara: I would love to contribute to any crowdfund for immigration and tax lawyers who could answer questions, or start an application if you wanted that. (I was thinking that with a crowdfund, personal info can stay private? I’m not good at setting things up, but someone here might be.)
The questions about taxes vs application would be useful to others of us too.
(If by any chance you want to move to Boston area my long time friends work in the courts to assist noncitizens and help privately w housing and jobs.)
TenguPhule
@dmsilev: You have hit today’s Daily Double.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@TenguPhule:
As I said earlier today, there is a concept stated in about the second quintile of that endorsing the “Great Man” theory of leadership. I’m pretty concerned about the NSC supporting that line of thinking.
Stan
That’s how it works in State government agencies too.
WereBear
Love it.
HeleninEire
@rikyrah: Hi hon. Did you see the story today where they are trying to explain why Rand Paul was beat to hell by his neighbor? Apparently Rand piled up his tree clippings on his own property but in view of the neighbor. And HE DID IT TWICE!!!! That’s what made the neighbor beat him so bad that 6 ribs were broken.
NO. EVERLOVING NO. Rand fucked the neighbor’s daughter. How is this confusing?
Amir Khalid
@HeleninEire:
Yes. It may be used as either.
catclub
@Joyce H: I remember predictions that Trump would not make it to the GOP convention, then that he would not make it to the election, so I would like this to be true, but I got no idea.
Immanentize
@LAO: I just read your link. It seems the 2d circuit might be a bit more fucked up than other places! I remember the Rosemond case which seemed like a good proffer case in the 2d, but I didn’t know about all that other mishegas.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
Right? It’s like finding out ebola kills malaria mosquitoes or something.
SC54HI
@HeleninEire:
According to the press release they are focusing on individuals who were previously ordered to be removed but obtained green cards/citizenship using false IDs. Whether or not that’s true or only a pretext to go fishing for any naturalized citizen they don’t like (bad politics, speaking out against the tRump regime, or whatever), is another matter. I wouldn’t bet against this becoming a widespread net.
Melania, AFAIK, has never used an alias nor was she under a removal order at any point. Nonetheless, it seems clear that she lied about her activities while in the US on a visitor visa and those lies were perpetuated as part of her N-400 application.
TenguPhule
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I’m pretty certain the current members are incapable of thinking.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
He proffers his proffer. For profit!
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Worse, its her actual job. She’s the political commissor.
LAO
@Immanentize: Honestly — I’m partially responsible for how fucked up it is — about 15 years ago, I knocked out a proffer agreement at the district court level, defendant was acquitted, so the government couldn’t appeal the ruling — hahahahaha. Took about 3 years for the issue to get to the 2d Circuit and the panel specifically overruled our decision as part of its ruling. I was soooo pissed. So messy and fucked up.
Litlebritdifrnt
Donny Deautch was on MJ a couple of weeks ago and said essentially “in the end Michael will do what is best for him and his family”. Donny is a close friend of Michael (apparently) and he was very emphatic about that point, Cohen will do what is best for him and his family, his loyalty to Trump only goes as far as that. And if Trump throws him under the bus (which is what appears to be happening) Cohen will not think twice about throwing Trump under the bus to save his family. His family always comes first (to quote Donny). If this shit comes down the way it is expected to, Cohen will leave his family destitute, he has to protect his assets to at least give his wife and kids something to live on. If he does not flip and make a deal with Muller et. al., his assets WILL be seized, he can make a deal whereby his ill gotten gains are left in place to support his family. If he does not cooperate his assets will be seized and his family is fucked. “He will always do what is best for his family”. Think on that.
J R in WV
@Yarrow:
I noticed a severe, serious shortfall in Tick Tock, Mutherfuckers lately. Others pitched in to help out, but it wasn’t the same.
Glad you’re back Yarrow, Tick Tock, Mutherfuckers!!!
Immanentize
@LAO: Ha!! Excellent (for your first client especially). Do you do attorney-originated pre-proffers in the 2d?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@HeleninEire:
I have a case in Bowling Green that brings me into regular contact with lawyers who know and hate them both. It’s a long simmering neighbor feud, and Ron’s boy Rand has been poking the bear repeatedly for years while hiding behind his lofty office. The bear, unfortunately, has legitimate brain trauma from a car wreck and has been medically disabled from practicing medicine for years.
The bear was unwilling to take another poking without acting. He tried doing an open plea in state court to the misdemeanor assault, but the feds are insisting that it is a separate crime to attack a senator.
TenguPhule
@HeleninEire:
Three times actually. And each time he dropped more piles of waste on the borderline. AND he blew leaves into the other guy’s yard.
Sufficient reason for a homicide, let alone a beating.
LAO
@Immanentize: I have, on occasion made “attorney proffers” on behalf of my clients — which I’m guessing is the same thing — where in I discuss what I expect my client could bring to the table as either a cooperator or to qualify for safety valve. I really, as a general rule, won’t allow client to sign proffer agreements — there’s very little upside.
Is that the same an attorney-originated pre-proffer?
TenguPhule
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Why? They skint on the billings?
HeleninEire
@Immanentize: OK so why, during the Valerie Plame/Scooter Libby debacle did Patrick Fitzgerald say that Ari Fleisher’s information was buying a “pig in a poke?” He didn’t have Fleishers information before Fleisher got immunity. Why?
Immanentize
@LAO: yes, exactly.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@TenguPhule:
Like I said – poking the brain damaged bear while being very short, shady little shit that can’t take a punch.
MisterForkbeard
@TenguPhule: Also apparently refused to clean it up and neighbor ended up being the guy who cleaned it, each time.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@TenguPhule:
Both of them are raging assholes on a personal level.
Immanentize
@HeleninEire: Basically, Proffers are for defendants to get leniency, immunity is for witnesses reluctant to testify (usually at the Grand Jury — but also beyond. Immunity takes away your fifth amendment rights as a witness, while the prosecution agrees not to use what you said either to charge you or to go out and find other evidence to charge you with. This is called “use and derivative use” immunity. But you can still be charged with anything you don’t discuss, and anything you do discuss if there is an independent source for the prosecution’s information. And they can try witnesses — and often do because it pisses them off — for false testimony (perjury) once immunity is granted. So, in short, Fleischer was given immunity for his testimony before the Grand Jury and beyond. He was never a defendant so did not enter into any kind of leniency agreement.
I know that is a bit confusing — hope it helps. Gotta go catch a train!
TenguPhule
@MisterForkbeard: Second time the neighbor burned the waste piles and suffered second degree burns from the fire.
HeleninEire
@Amir Khalid: LOL. I love you. I’ve said more than once to my American friends something like “so I read an American political blog and there is a fabulous Malaysian man there who, whenever we have an English grammar or spelling question he has the answer.” Cuz Americans don’t do grammar. And we certainly do not learn other languages so that we can have context for English.
All of that to say, thank you, Amir. Also, too ;) please do not correct my grammar on this post!!
John Revolta
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Which Randy of course knew, as he deliberately provoked this guy.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
I know it embarrasses you whenever we say this, but if we can do a fundraiser for Lily’s medical bills, we can do a fundraiser to pay off your taxes. You are just as valuable to us as she is!
HeleninEire
@TenguPhule: Agree. Especially if it’s Rand.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@TenguPhule: It really sounded like Rand Paul was dumping the yard waste in that spot to piss off his neighbor on purpose.
thalarctosMaritimus
@jacy: you’re on a roll lately–this is like the fourth quote of yours that I’m tucking away to use later.
Calouste
@SC54HI: I can see this going the way of that voter ID crap. They find one guy who used a false ID, and then toss our everyone with the same first and last names; middle names, birthplace, age etc be dawned.
J R in WV
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
And I’ll bet those guys are as expert as all Trump’s federal appointees, who don’t know what their job description is at all. No wonder he’s nervous about losing Secret service protection… he knows his private security guys are $15/hr guys.
TenguPhule
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: He was.
Gin & Tonic
@Litlebritdifrnt:
His kids are adults, no? Why don’t they get a fucking job if they want something to live on?
HeleninEire
@thalarctosMaritimus: Of course he was.
He was also Fucking the neighbor’s daughter.
Allegedly.
TenguPhule
@Gin & Tonic:
All Trust Funds matter.
Julia Grey
@trollhattan:
Knock wood. It’s scary how often I see this kind of confidence about how easy it will be to get past Pence. I’m not at all sure about that.
For one thing, following an ignominious Trump departure, you KNOW the press is going to reinvent Pence as a political salvation figure for the ages. They can’t let the Republicans down on that.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
Thread is dead, but this is ridiculous. Most people don’t even know what the Emoulments clause is. They sure as fuck know that the President is term-limited. Stop being absurd.
And all presidents get to keep their SS details after they leave office.
Brachiator
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Emoulments is Santa’s Swiss cousin.
J R in WV
@HeleninEire:
Your grammar is fine. There is a comma missing, that’s more syntax than grammar.
heehee ;-)
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Not the full detail. Only two agents at their side, IIRC.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Everyone who reads or watches the news regularly should know what it is by now.
J R in WV
@ruemara:
Heh, here it is, for the third+ times:
@Mnemosyne:
Or for Carol’s retirement plans which went askew due to no fault of her own…
Me too! Shared burdens are light…
westyny
@Joyce H: I hope you’re right, but the Presidency is the only thing that’s giving him certain immunities . . .
Just One More Canuck
@SiubhanDuinne: thanks
Yarrow
@trollhattan: I do not trust Van Jones. Doesn’t surprise me in the least he’s buddies with Jared Kushner. Not at all surprised.
Platonailedit
Given the subsequent clarifications, shouldn’t the title at least have a cavuto mark? Or is it just a clickbait?
CarolDuhart2
@J R in WV: And by the way, thanks everyone. Things are much better now.
As for Trump and Secret Service protection, Trump has a full regular detail and well as Melania out of office. Its the kids over 16 who don’t have SS protection any more. Also he doesn’t get to use the secure cars or of course, Air Force One.
As for Pence replacing Trump not as easy as it looks: unlike LBJ and Ford, there will be little sympathy, and Pence has no charisma or base in the Party. I doubt if he even has the skills to reach out to anyone other than hard core Trumpers. The only feeling would be relief in that he wouldn’t blow up the world.
J R in WV
@CarolDuhart2:
Glad to know you’re doing well. Keep in touch!
Retirement is a huge relief if you’ve had a stressful job.
I worked in environmental protection, which everyone hates. Either you’re taking their jobs, or you’re NOT protecting their health, no in between. At least I didn’t make decisions and face the public, I was back-end support. But still, the whole place was full of negative energy.
Yarrow
@Litlebritdifrnt: I don’t buy that story from Donny Deutch that makes Cohen sound like a nice family man. He grew up with mob ties and married into a Ukrainian immigrant family that seems to have very questionable relationships with the Russian mob. “Family” has more than one meaning here.
Platonailedit
waysel
@Yarrow: I don’t buy the Donny Deutch story about Cohen being a big family man for the simple reason that Trump seems incapable of telling the truth. If he speaks, he lies.
Tokyokie
@J R in WV: Donny Dollhands bought those security detail guys. And somebody would probably be willing to pay them considerably more.
Yarrow
@waysel: Well, in this case it’s Donny Deutch telling the story that Cohen is a nice family man. We have to decide whether or not to believe him. Trump lies all the time, no question about that.
Achrachno
@TenguPhule: Then you’re agreeing with Goku?
cwmoss
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: He should fucking kill the senator.