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Russiagate Open Thread: Alas, Poor Manafort, We Hardly Knew Him…

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194Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    Downside: now that unregistered lobbying for foreign governments is an enforceable felony, most of Washington is going to have to report to jail.

    I don’t see how this is a down side.

  2. 2.

    Chyron HR

    “Well, everybody I know is wrist deep in murderous dictators, so how can you hold Paul accountable for his actions?”

  3. 3.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    I once interviewed for a job with a foreign government(Korean Trade Association) and was told in the interview that I’d have to register as a foreign agent. These people know this, if they haven’t registered they’re knowingly breaking the law. Tucker is either stupid or covering for his paymasters(or both).

  5. 5.

    MisterForkbeard

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: It’s both.

    The dumb thing about this is that even at the time of Manafort’s hiring, there was a lot of commentary to the effect of “Manafort has some really troubling issues in his past, this was a bad idea.” There’s NO WAY Trump didn’t know this guy was dirty before hiring him.

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I was wondering if Trust Fund Tucker of the frozen niblets wasn’t bothered by all this attention paid to tax evasion and dodgy family foundations.

  12. 12.

    Gravenstone

    @Chet Murthy: sweet jumping Jesus fucking Christ, there are scads of deeply delusional people in that Carson thread. The rot runs deep in MAGAtland.

  13. 13.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Gravenstone: I have problems reading public internet threads like that lately. There are some seriously deranged people out there.

  14. 14.

    Jerzy Russian

    Jesus Christ. Green Balloons already! That still works as a safe word, right?

  15. 15.

    Felanius Kootea

    @MisterForkbeard: He hired him precisely because he knew he was dirty, not in spite of it.

    I guess Trump is really planning to have his family move to Russia or North Korea post-presidency. His actions make no sense in the
    long-term for someone who lives in a democracy where the presidency is term-limited to 8 years (in a best case scenario for him).

    His oldest three kids are really, really dumb. They’ll be living with the consequences of his actions longer than he will.

  16. 16.

    SFAW

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I have problems reading public internet threads like that lately. There are some seriously deranged people out there.

    Seconded. May they all go the way of the Husnock.

  17. 17.

    SFAW

    @Felanius Kootea:

    His oldest three kids are really, really dumb. They’ll be living with the consequences of his actions longer than he will.

    Not if he really, REALLY pisses off Vladi, they won’t.

  20. 20.

    jonas

    @MisterForkbeard:

    There’s NO WAY Trump didn’t know this guy was dirty before hiring him.

    “I have contacts in the Russian/Ukranian underworld” was a plus, not a liability, for a job in the Trump Org/Campaign.

  21. 21.

    MisterForkbeard

    @jonas: @Felanius Kootea: Agree with both of you.

    I just can’t believe that anyone (even his supporters) can pretend to take Trump’s protestations seriously. But then, that’s basically been the hallmark of his entire campaign and presidency: Lie, say something ridiculous and don’t get called on it to a meaningful degree. Meanwhile, his supporters love that he’s making liberals angry.

  23. 23.

    SFAW

    @Dorothy Winsor:

    The Hoarse Whisperer is wrong. I’m not going to live long enough to get to the point where I can laugh at the Trump era.

    No kidding. If I am ever fortunate enough to have grandchildren, THEY will not live long enough to laugh about that traitorous motherfucker.

  24. 24.

    jonas

    @MisterForkbeard: The fact that he lies so brazenly and openly is a plus in their eyes. Only a real alpha bullshits so confidently!

    As Hanna Arendt once observed regarding the function of propaganda under totalitarian regimes, the point wasn’t to make you believe the lies, but to make you be in awe of, and fear, a state that would lie so brazenly and confidently.

  26. 26.

    debbie

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Speaking of, Adam Schiff tweeted this earlier today:

    The President says it’s irrelevant whether he lied about dictating Don Jr.’s statement on the Trump Tower meeting, because he was just being dishonest with the public.

    No wonder he is trying to dodge answering Special Counsel Mueller’s questions, when he would be under oath.

  27. 27.

    MisterForkbeard

    @jonas: I guess I’m “afraid” of it, in the sense that I’m honestly worried about the idiots who claim to believe him (and more generally, republicans) over and over again despite their lying eyes.

    But afraid of Trump? No. I’m not a violent man and I’m not bragging here – I’m ashamed of it, but I’d probably sock him in his face if I saw him in person, assault charges be damned. He pisses me off fiercely, especially his complete refusal to recognize anything that doesn’t go his way. It’s hard to ignore a broken nose.

  28. 28.

    Jay

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Keep in mind there’s still swarms of Russian bots, Russian troll’s, Gamergaters, Incels, Nazi’s and The Donald Redditors with nym’s out the wazoo,

    Then there’s the “common Clay of the American West”,

    Online, outside of rational communities, the split’s somewhere between 50:50 and 60:40.

    The Russians are ususally active until about 4pm, Central time,

  30. 30.

    jonas

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Meanwhile, his supporters love that he’s making liberals angry.

    I think that’s just it. It’s a stupid game to them. They just want to burn everything in America to the ground and piss on the ashes. It’s “Let’s Destroy America” as a massive piece of performance art. They’re like Heath Ledger’s Joker. They think it’s hilarious that Trump can just make some shit up, and it causes some wuss-ass reporters to scramble around searching for words other than “bald-ass lie” to describe it, and all the weekend talks shows are “concerned” with the president’s “lack of candor.” It’s a power trip. No more, no less.

  31. 31.

    M4

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I have problems reading public internet threads like that lately. There are some seriously deranged people out there.

    Me too. I can barely handle some of the threads here!

  32. 32.

    sdhays

    @Felanius Kootea: Using the word “hired” for the relationship Paul Manafort had with the Trump and his campaign just seems wrong. He was “unpaid”, which seemed really odd at the time, and the more we learn, the more it seems like he was “installed” as Chairman of the Trump campaign, and probably not by Trump himself.

  33. 33.

    M4

    @Dorothy Winsor: I’ve lived long enough to laugh at some of the things from W’s reign, but only because it’s somehow amusing that they’ve been so insanely overshadowed, and so quickly.

  34. 34.

    debbie

    @jonas:

    And when they turn around and find their hero has been locked up, they’ll whine, “We was just funnin’!”

  35. 35.

    Spanky

    @Felanius Kootea:

    His oldest three kids are really, really dumb. They’ll be living with the consequences of his actions longer than he will.

    Odds are increasing that the difference will be measured in minutes.

  36. 36.

    sdhays

    @jonas: They believe that if you dismantle all of the things in your existing civil society that bug you personally, all of the things you like about civil society will magically continue to exist and you’ll have utopia. I’ve always considered that the definition of a libertarian, but libertarians are just a specialization of that ethos – you don’t need to build a better society with hard work and imagination and compassion, you just need to cut out the parts you don’t like, never mind how the parts you like came to be or what supports them.

  37. 37.

    MisterForkbeard

    @M4: Seriously. That Major Major Major Major dude is off his rocker. Also not good: whatever ARGB is calling himself these days. Blaise? Blaithe? Blaze? :)

  41. 41.

    MisterForkbeard

    @M4: Brickleberry Postulate? I feel like we’re getting closer.

    @lamh36: Bush II did this too. Obama put us back in pretty quickly.

    And now, off to dinner. Gonna see how closely some very white friends can approximate filipino food. This should be entertaining.

  42. 42.

    lamh36

    @NPR
    Colleen Kraft, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, visited a Texan shelter for migrant children and saw a young girl crying. Staff told her that federal regulations prevented them from touching or holding the child to soothe her. https://n.pr/2JIcgoq

  45. 45.

    M4

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Gonna see how closely some very white friends can approximate filipino food.

    If they stick to the Filipino food that’s Filipinos approximating white people food, they might have a chance. How do you feel about hot dogs?

  49. 49.

    trollhattan

    @lamh36:
    There’s those regulations again. Stupid Democrats and their stupid laws, if only the Republicans didn’t have to follow them!

    Can’t guess which horror will be one horror too many, but this one has potential.

  50. 50.

    Thoughtful David

    I’m trying to remember two things:

    1. When was the last time a sitting pr*sident’s campaign manager was actually sent to jail?

    2. When was the last time a presidential candidate’s (whether the candidate won or not, or whether the president was actually in office when the campaign manager went to jail) campaign manager went to jail?

    I’m actually talking about having the barred door close behind them, not just being charged or convicted but not actually spending a night on the cot.

    I’m coming up blank.

  55. 55.

    lamh36

    Didn’t Manafort advocate for Pence to be VP?

    Anyone else notice how quiet Pence has been about this? In fact, when was the last time he interviewed in public?

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lamh36: Priebus is probably one of the better lawyers involved in all of this. He knows enough to keep his mouth shut in public and god only knows what he has been saying to Mueller in private.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: Looks like

    It was Manafort who engineered Pence’s selection as Trump’s running-mate, knocking out New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who, according to reports, had already been offered the slot. And even though Manafort, who has since been revealed to have had other business dealings with other oligarchs from the former Soviet bloc, officially left the Trump campaign in August, he remained an advisory presence during the transition, and was said to talk with Pence regularly, according to a report in The Daily Beast.

    also IIRC the Large Adult Children, including Jared, who was also in the Russian meeting with DJTJ/Fredo/Slabhead. One version is they lied about the plane being grounded so the Beast had to sit with Mike and Mother for a while, and they could all work on him, and convince him that Christie would hog the spotlight.

  64. 64.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    I want to scream and then punch something. What the everloving blue-eyed fuck? “Cruel,” “malevolent,” and “evil” don’t even come close to describing the depravity of these people.

  65. 65.

    sukabi

    @MisterForkbeard: well the thing Bush II and Drumpf have in common is their belief that the US is above the law…can’t be signing in to a human rights treaty when you’re busy torturing, kidnapping children and denying people their due process.

  66. 66.

    MCA1

    @jonas: Yes, well, the problem here is that due to the confluence of shitty education, resentment politics unabated for 40 years on one side of the aisle, and a generation long (successful) effort by the Right to ruin the media and lead us to a post-truth world, we’re now unfortunately in a place where they get that benefit from the nonstop lying, but they ALSO have 60 million idiots who DO believe every single lie they put forth.

  67. 67.

    Platonailedit

    “I can’t believe it took this long”

    Me neither. Hope the criminal money laundering thug at the very least gets the same years inside as he was outside.

  68. 68.

    lamh36

    This thread!!!
    wow… this thread…tell me again it isn’t a prison…smh

    Read the bit about “the bell”…wow

    @GadiNBC
    8h8 hours ago
    More
    We’re about to head into another detention shelter for immigrant children separated from families. This one much different from the former Walmart @jacobsoboroff showed us earlier this week. No cameras allowed in but our reports coming up @MSNBC @NBCNightlyNews @allinwithchris

    I want to say this same company that wouldn’t allow the Senator to enter , at the very least, after that happened and more people asking to see inside…now all of a sudden all these reporters are being allowed in.

    SMH…my money say again, it’s because they’ve been allowed to “clean up” or santiize the places so that the reporters won’t have any outrage to report aside from ya know…the kids basically being in fuq’n jail

  70. 70.

    CliosFanBoy

    I hear Putin has a nice retirement home prepared for trump and his family at a little place named Yekaterinburg

  73. 73.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Thoughtful David:

    Richard Nixon’s AG, John Mitchell, served as Nixon’s 1968 campaign manager. He was imprisoned in 1977 for 19 months due to a variety of Watergate-related crimes.

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    SMH…my money say again, it’s because they’ve been allowed to “clean up” or santiize the places so that the reporters won’t have any outrage to report aside from ya know…the kids basically being in fuq’n jail

    Yep. Potemkin facilities.

  76. 76.

    Mike in NC

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: A Trump/Christie administration would have been a unique enough nightmare: two loudmouthed very fat white guys from the Northeast who felt they were above the rules made for mere mortals.

  78. 78.

    lamh36

    Another thread:

    @Katy_Vine
    Follow Follow @Katy_Vine
    More
    Today I spoke with Anne Chandler, executive director of @tahirihjustice Houston office, about the child-parent separation happening right now. Anne and her colleagues assist immigrant women and children, and she gave me some insight into what she’s been seeing: 1/6

    @lamh36:

    @Katy_Vine
    1h1 hour ago
    More
    “In the shelters, they can’t even find the parents because the kids are just crying inconsolably, they often don’t know the full legal name of their parents or their date of birth. They’re not in a position to share a trauma story like what caused the migration.” 2/6
    https://twitter.com/Katy_Vine/status/1007778165371043841

  79. 79.

    TenguPhule

    @CliosFanBoy:

    I hear Putin has a nice retirement home prepared for trump and his family at a little place named Yekaterinburg

    Is that what we call Siberia these days?

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    Did you happen to see this the other day from The Onion?

    One of those things that’s so close, you don’t want to laugh.

  82. 82.

    lamh36

    See what I was saying about Chris Hayes…smh..

    He should really leave this shit to Maddow…cause he always seems to have to step on his own damn story to issue a clarification…smh.

    Which just confuses the situation and allow even more “fake news” tags… smh

    Yet Maddow’s show is able to piece together all kinds of detailed reporting and rarely have to issue “clarifying” statements…smh

    @chrislhayes
    14m14 minutes ago
    More
    Replying to @chrislhayes @jbouie
    There’s actually a lot of confusion about all of this I’ve been meaning to clear up. Will attempt to do so next week. The process is complicated and opaque.
    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1007798542151356416

    Clean it up next week…what…
    how is it that Maddow is able to handle this complicated reporting and Hayes seems to ALWAYS have to “clarify”…dude..there is no shame in asking for help with your work…smh

  85. 85.

    Ken

    @oldgold:

    Trump thinks from one news cycle to the next – no further.

    You give him too much credit. I doubt he thinks ahead to the end of his current sentence.

    (I mean whatever he’s currently babbling. He’s not received the other kind of sentence, yet.)

  86. 86.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TenguPhule:

    I would wager a fair amount of money that there’s sexual trafficking going on (probably with some of the boys, too).

  87. 87.

    Mike in NC

    @TenguPhule: Yekaterinburg was the location of the house where the Romanov family was executed during the Russian Revolution. It was razed when Boris Yeltsin was a local bureaucrat to discourage visitors.

    Not sure what sort of reception awaits the Trump Crime Cartel in Russia.

  91. 91.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mike in NC: TenguPhule: Yekaterinburg was the location of the house where the Romanov family was executed during the Russian Revolution.

    Not all of them
    (Tiffastasia!)

  92. 92.

    Jeffro

    @Mike in NC:

    Not sure what sort of reception awaits the Trump Crime Cartel in Russia.

    A week or so ago, I threw out there the idea that Trumpov might actually do such a thing (flee to Russia in the end).

    But I think there’s actually a nonzero chance of that happening, now. Not double digits – yet.

  94. 94.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I also think Chris Christie must be thanking whatever lucky stars he has that he ended up not being picked for a senior transition/WH role, let alone VP. Yes, he’s an obnoxious, sleazy bully, but he’s not stupid and he’s sure a lot better off now than he might have been.

  96. 96.

    No Drought No More

    “..if Manafort is convicted on all counts in DC/VA, he faces 300+ years”.

    Manafort: “Your honor, I can’t do 300 years”.

    Judge: “That’s alright, son, just do as many as you can”.*

    *(that’s a line, once removed, from the movie The Great Brinks Robbery. The late, great Peter Falk starred as one of a stellar cast that included Warren Oates and Paul Sorvino).

  97. 97.

    jl

    @lamh36: Thanks for the tweet. Disturbing thread. Sounds like the places are run by abusive corporate suits who are abusing both the front-line workers and the kids in detention.

    One thing I can’t believe is that it seems like neither the feds nor the contractors are keeping track of people. So, the parents and the kids are given info numbers to figure out how find each other. That sounds too asinine and vicious and ridiculous to be true. But, we live in Trumpworld. What the hell, do I misunderstand something about it? If the people who are separating the families are not even bothering to keep track, accusations of human rights violations are not a joke and not an exaggeration.

  98. 98.

    Gelfling 545

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I had to register as the agent of a foreign government when I was answering telephones for the Consulate General for Canada here. Fingerprints & photos & everything just to say Consulat du Canada. Bonjour.

  99. 99.

    Kraux Pas

    @Jeffro:

    A week or so ago, I threw out there the idea that Trumpov might actually do such a thing (flee to Russia in the end).

    I have a vision of a post-impeachment Trump evading jail by fleeing to Russia and promoting a military campaign from exile, with the backing of his allies, against President Pelosi/Clinton whom he will claim was installed by coup.

  100. 100.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne: IIRC Christie got bounced from an official position because obese fatso Trump thought Christie was too fat. And Christie wasn’t diligent in running to fetch Trump snacks, or got caught eating some on the way back, or some such nonsense.

    But I think Christie is in legal trouble too, except not a lot of attention when he’s convicted of some state fraud or corruption charge. Missed out on the main stage of fame and infamy. He could have been a contender for a spotlight in the Trump investigations. Maybe he’ll thank the fates some day.

  101. 101.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Utterly O/T, but has Mnem checked in from the Happiest Place in the World yet?

  102. 102.

    Shana

    @MisterForkbeard: Especially since Trump wasn’t actually paying him. Didn’t he (Manafort) work for “no pay”? Begging the question, who actually was paying Manafort?

  103. 103.

    jonas

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’m honestly worried about the idiots who claim to believe him (and more generally, republicans) over and over again despite their lying eyes.

    I don’t think they do, really. I think they just believe that someone who is willing to simply troll the electorate and the MSM like this on a regular basis carries his balls in a wheelbarrow. Full stop.

  104. 104.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @jl:

    Is his legal trouble Trump/Russia connected, or Bridgegate? I’ll freely admit I’ve lost track of him and don’t care enough to google his name. Someone upthread mentioned him, otherwise I doubt I would have given him a thought.

  105. 105.

    jonas

    @jl: There was also the slightly awkward fact that as a federal prosecutor, Christie had sent Jared’s dad to prison. I think that was probably the deal breaker.

  106. 106.

    sukabi

    @Kraux Pas: it won’t get that far…Putin discovers after 1 week that Drumpf and his family in Russia is more trouble than it’s worth, as Drumpf is hogging all the attention. In a fit of pique Putin seizes all drumpf’s assets and exiles him to Chernobyl.

  107. 107.

    lamh36

    @Katy_Vine
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    “In my experience, they’re not releasing these children to the parents as they’re deported.” 6/6

  108. 108.

    efgoldman

    @Thoughtful David:

    When was the last time a sitting pr*sident’s campaign manager was actually sent to jail?

    John Mitchell, Tricksie’s AG and campaign manager (Maybe technically chairman of CREEP)

    ETA: Fucking NotMax is TOO QUICK

  109. 109.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Priebus is probably one of the better lawyers involved in all of this

    Yeah, this administration, like Bush the Dauphin’s, has not been good for the reputation of the legal profession.

  112. 112.

    jl

    @Mike in NC:

    ” Not sure what sort of reception awaits the Trump Crime Cartel in Russia. ”

    I think a shack near the Udachnaya diamond mine would be nice
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udachnaya_pipe

    Diamonds are classy, and the Trumps would be close by that classy shit. Udachny is neat and orderly, but classy. Top rank city for a completely isolated Siberian company town on the arctic circle. The climate has variety.

  114. 114.

    Gin & Tonic

    @sukabi: I will, pedantically, point out that Chornobyl is in Ukraine, not Russia, and that Ukraine is unlikely to be interested in granting residence to Trump (although, like any US passport holder, he is welcome to visit without needing a visa.)

  116. 116.

    jl

    @lamh36: Trump lies about everything. FLOTUS may have just told him she is for all effective purposes, out of the shit show for good, and going and doing what she wants. I wonder how many mistresses and payoffs she knows about now.

  117. 117.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I don’t know, it seems to me that the sort of people who are dumb enough to believe that the actions of a handful of attorneys out of the million practicing is already inclined to think that lawyers are pure evil because their elected party betters have been telling them that for decades.

  118. 118.

    lamh36

    Also too…if they have taken babies…where are they…hell a breastfeeding baby…taken from it’s mother? ok then how is the baby getting the breast milk?

  120. 120.

    jl

    @SiubhanDuinne: IIRC it’s just Bridgegate. Depends on how well his flunkies he threw under the bus can fare, probably. If it goes south for them too badly, Christie’s wall of flunkies may give way.

  122. 122.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Lots of people think lawyers are scum for defending other scum in court… until they need a lawyer.

    Alternatively, “all lawyers are evil except mine”.

  124. 124.

    Jim Parish

    If Manafort wasn’t being paid by the Trump campaign… How does the saying go? Something about “if you’re not paying for it, you’re the product”?

  125. 125.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    Oh this is all such bullshit. There’s a huge story here. It may not have the political/legal impact of everything else — it may be just great gossip — but there is no question in my mind that there’s a big story that someone wants to keep hushed up.

  127. 127.

    gene108

    @jl:

    Thanks for the tweet. Disturbing thread. Sounds like the places are run by abusive corporate suits who are abusing both the front-line workers and the kids in detention.

    I think it is an underfunded system that has gotten overwhelmed. And no one knows how to handle the excess load well.

    Probably part of the problem is these government contracting companies want to keep their profit margins, so they aren’t allocating resources quickly, without additional funding.

    @jl:

    One thing I can’t believe is that it seems like neither the feds nor the contractors are keeping track of people. So, the parents and the kids are given info numbers to figure out how find each other. That sounds too asinine and vicious and ridiculous to be true. But, we live in Trumpworld. What the hell, do I misunderstand something about it? If the people who are separating the families are not even bothering to keep track, accusations of human rights violations are not a joke and not an exaggeration.

    Reply

    The Trump crew is so badly understaffed that they do not have the personnel to implement a complex policy.

    And frankly, I don’t think anyone in Trumpworld actually gives a shit about inflicting suffering on strangers, while some like Miller, Kelly, and the blond DHS head Kirstjen something, probably get off on it.

    And yes, these are human rights violations. If we weren’t the largest national economy on the planet, this sort of shit – along with invading Iraq – would get us slapped with sanctions.

  131. 131.

    sukabi

    @lamh36: you know they don’t have wet nurses. Baby will be extremely traumatized, they’d probably try formula but it would be difficult for the baby under good circumstances to make that transition…these aren’t close to being good circumstances…

    ???

  132. 132.

    James Powell

    @jl:

    Christie got bounced despite his slavish loyalty to Trump because he was unacceptable to the Republicans. It is taken as fact, beyond peradventure, that Obama only got re-elected because Christie cozied up to him to get hurricane relief. They hate him more than we do.

  133. 133.

    TS (the original)

    @Felanius Kootea:

    where the presidency is term-limited to 8 years

    If he is re-elected, the rule of law is gone. He will be there till he decides to go.

  134. 134.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Omnes Omnibus: The kind of life one must lead to think this is clever.

    You can really only feel sorry for such a son-of-a-bitch. The world is already strangling his karma by forcing him, and it almost always a “HIM”, a WHITE guy, to live such a life. It’s like feeling sorry for the old prisoner without realizing that he was young when he went into the prison. So who should you really feel sorry for? Because they are not the same person.

  138. 138.

    NotMax

    @Thoughtful David

    Yes, Mitchell was sentenced in ’75, after Nixon’s resignation. The reason I mentioned deputy director Malek above is because he was sentenced and sent off to the pokey in the spring of ’74, before Nixon left.

  139. 139.

    J R in WV

    @Dorothy Winsor:

    Well, wait. Think a moment. What if the November election is a real landslide?

    What if Trump gets indicted and impeached, after Pence is indicted and impeached? Then Madame Speaker Pelosi becomes president, and Trump is in jail along with his three governmental kids.

    It could get funny about the time the Trumpians are jailed, in about 2 or 3 years. I could live that long…

  142. 142.

    TS (the original)

    @lamh36:

    US expected to withdraw from UN Human Rights Council: report

    Done by regimes (or US presidents) that know they are breaking all international rules in regards to Human Rights.

  144. 144.

    sukabi

    @Kraux Pas: lol, a batallion of hoverounds? Pretty sure if it came to that they’d follow drumpf’s example and develop a severe case of bone spurs.

  147. 147.

    Chet Murthy

    @J R in WV: @Dorothy Winsor: It still won’t be funny. I will still mourn the end of the American Era in world politics. Sure, we did some bad things. But we also did some good things, and I can’t pretend that what comes after is bound to be better. Combine that with our allies and clients going off-leash, starting to build up their militaries, and no, I don’t think it’ll be funny. And then there’s the massive shame of the almost-certain human rights violations to which we are all party, happening as we speak.

    Yes, I’ll be dancing in the streets when/if Shitlord and his crappy fam go down. But that’s just one night. I’m with DW — we’ll be living down this disaster our entire adult lives.

  149. 149.

    J R in WV

    @lamh36:

    Staff told her that federal regulations prevented them from touching or holding the child to soothe her.

    If so, that’s evil, unethical, immoral and wrong. It is well documented that a lack of physical contact with very young children causes lasting psychological problems. So I suspect it is one more lie among the thousands of other lies being used to shield this loathsome activity.

    If Trump had done nothing else illegal, immoral and evil but this, he would still be guilty of crimes against humanity. This whole kidnapping children from their parents thing is the most upsetting thing any American politician has ever done. Beyond despicable.

  150. 150.

    Kraux Pas

    @J R in WV:

    If Trump had done nothing else illegal, immoral and evil but this, he would still be guilty of crimes against humanity. This whole kidnapping children from their parents thing is the most upsetting thing any American politician has ever done. Beyond despicable.

    Just do like Fox news and pretend that these families applying for asylum have somehow broken the law. Bam!!! No more moral catastrophe.

  151. 151.

    Glidwrith

    @lamh36: Almost as bad, mom may not be given any means to express her milk and suffer through painfully overfull breasts and lose her milk.

  152. 152.

    Kraux Pas

    @sukabi:

    lol, a batallion of hoverounds? Pretty sure if it came to that they’d follow drumpf’s example and develop a severe case of bone spurs.

    I hope you’re right or else Thanksgiving with the fam will be even more fraught.

  153. 153.

    Wapiti

    @J R in WV: If Pence were impeached before Trump, then he’d be replaced. President must nominate a candidate who is confirmed by majority of both houses.

    Now, if there’s enough Dems to impeach Pence, Trump would have to nominate someone acceptable to that crew, which likely means “not a Republican. Nor a Libertarian. Nor a Green and certainly not an Independent.”

  157. 157.

    Kraux Pas

    @Wapiti:

    If Pence were impeached before Trump, then he’d be replaced. President must nominate a candidate who is confirmed by majority of both houses.

    Couldn’t they be done consecutively and have Trump impeached before a replacement is considered for Pence?

  159. 159.

    TS (the original)

    @lamh36: There is no 1st lady – she’s the president*’s 3rd lady & she cares not an iota about the president* or the country.

  160. 160.

    Kraux Pas

    @Omnes Omnibus: It was more of a suggestion based on my current understanding of the process than an outright question. Nevertheless; feel free to affirm, deny, or clarify; just try not to be such a dick.

  161. 161.

    Duane

    Remember when republicans changed their platform and dropped the tough language regarding Vlad’s excellent adventure in Crimea? Everyone said ” Oh…well.. Then crickets. Simpler times they were.

  162. 162.

    TS (the original)

    @SiubhanDuinne: If her name was Clinton or Obama or any other democrat name – it would be a huge story. You forget, this is trump. The thrice married family man who can do no wrong.

  164. 164.

    Chet Murthy

    @TS (the original): The more she lives her own life, and stays away from Putinfelcher, the more I’ll be open to excusing her birtherism and support of Shitmidas’ campaign. She’s got a choice to make: she’s either “in” (and complicit) or “out”. And at this point, she doesn’t have her parents’ citizenship cases hanging over her head.

    I can understand why she might not denounce the fucker; non-participation is enough.

  166. 166.

    Kraux Pas

    @Platonailedit: He’s just mad that I taught him that after he trolls someone for months they might decide to troll him back, hard. He’s still butthurt.

  168. 168.

    jl

    Poor Christie. None of the GOP cool kids like him anymore.
    Edit: thanks to commenters above for reminding me of all the reasons he was unacceptable to everyone.

  169. 169.

    cain

    Who wants to sign up Cole for ‘Queer Eye’? :) He made the mistake about how Bumble lets women turn him down easy. :P

  170. 170.

    Platonailedit

    Paul Manafort has been locked up in a Virginia jail tonight.

    An inmate database shows that Manafort was booked into the Northern Neck Regional Jail in Warsaw, Virginia, at 8:22 PM.

    Jail records listed his housing unit as "VIP-1.

    " https://t.co/4JhYuD3oIe— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 16, 2018

    Guess collusion, corruption, racketeering and money laundering do entitle you to a vip treatment.

  174. 174.

    Platonailedit

    Look, all im saying is that Paul Manafort just freed up 2 GPS tracking bracelets and I feel like they would be perfect for Jared and Ivanka's summer wardbrobe.

    — m i t h (@ManInTheHoody) June 15, 2018

  175. 175.

    Platonailedit

    Seconded. All who treated his bigotry as a joke or a ratings boost, who dismissed those who warned of autocracy as "alarmists" — you helped sanction this atrocity.

    There are children who lost their parents in part because of you.

    Trump was clear who he was. Complicity kills.

    https://t.co/GyN91WJ0vI— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) June 16, 2018

  178. 178.

    MomSense

    @cain:

    I was just coming here to suggest the same thing. I want to see the fab 5 make him gorge (short for gorgeous for the non watchers).

    I’ve been binge watching season 2 and just realized I have mascara all over my face from crying.

  180. 180.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @lamh36:
    Disgusting that morons there in response just chant “USA” over and over again like mindless zombies to silence those talking about children being locked away in internment camps away from their parents. Children who didn’t choose to come here. Children who were fleeing violence in their home countries. I don’t know what the answer is, but this fascist, xenophobic shit isn’t it.

  181. 181.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Ahem:

    Happiest Place in the World On Earth

    We are currently lounging by a large outdoor fireplace recovering from a steak dinner, but a large noisy group just showed up, so that may be our cue to head back to the room. Tomorrow we hit a couple of rides in the morning and then retreat back to the hotel.

  182. 182.

    TS (the original)

    Alas, Poor Manafort, We Hardly Knew Him…

    Every time I see this heading – I just love it more.

  184. 184.

    Platonailedit

    TRUMP-RUSSIA UPDATE

    Flynn: CONVICTED

    Gates: CONVICTED

    Papadopoulos: CONVICTED

    Manafort: INDICTED and JAILED

    Cohen: READY TO COOPERATE

    Sater: READY TO COOPERATE

    Nader: COOPERATING

    Prince: CAUGHT in PERJURY

    Sessions: CAUGHT in PERJURY

    Trump Jr.: CAUGHT in PERJURY

    Trump Sr.:#MAGA

    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) June 15, 2018

  185. 185.

    Platonailedit

    TRUMP-RUSSIA UPDATE PT. 2
    Van der Zwaan: CONVICTED and JAILED
    Stone: INDICTMENT EXPECTED
    Kilimnik: INDICTED and AVOIDING TRIAL
    Page: COOPERATING but CAUGHT MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS
    Ivanka: UNDER INVESTIGATION
    Kushner: UNDER INVESTIGATION
    Internet Research Agency: INDICTED#MAGA
    — Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) June 15, 2018

  186. 186.

    Amir Khalid

    @James Powell:
    I was under the impression that Christie only took the Sandy relief money because Bruce Springsteen, who had been ignoring Christie for years, agreed to meet him and Obama helped broker the meeting. Christie, of course, is such an asshole that he and Bruce didn’t stay friends for long.

  187. 187.

    tobie

    Josh Marshall has a long post up about glaring contradictions in the IG’s report, which on the one hand suggests that the FBI prioritized the Trump-Russia investigation for dubious reasons and on the other hand concedes that the case against Clinton was closed and the discovery of further emails was unlikely to change the outcome. Marshall also notes he’s yet to hear any confirmation that the IG will issue a second report on the NY FBI, which raises the question why Strzok’s emails are scrutinized in enormous detail but not the emails of the agents who leaked info to Nunes and Giuliani. I don’t know whether we’ll see a second IG report but be that as it may I’ve had doubts about IG Horowitz’s judgement ever since he decided to excerpt and release the section of the report on McCabe in February to facilitate McCabe firing. He did this either to kow-tow to Trump or because he’s convinced the FBI has been unfair to Trump. Neither option inspires confidence. I think he suffers from the same problem as Comey: he’s convinced he’s the only honest guy in DC and this makes him blind to his own biases.

  188. 188.

    fry1laurie

    “I’ve lived for 26,280 days, so 144 days is really only a very small percentage of the days I’ve lived. Very small, like my hands.”

  189. 189.

    CodeWriter

    @Kraux Pas: You and me both. Hell, I nearly broke out of my multi-year lurker status just to tell him to bugger off and quit being an obstinate jerk, but figured all the actual commenting regulars would handle it. No wonder he has to apologize for behavior so often.

  191. 191.

    jc

    The end of the Trump nightmare will be even more depressing than the scenarios above, imo. When the heat becomes unbearable, Trump will pardon all the crooks he’s installed. And then he’ll resign. And then Pence will pardon him, and say: let’s now look forward and not back. And the nation will learn nothing.

    This is reason #568 why a sane, mature society doesn’t elect an obvious crook and liar to run the government.

  192. 192.

    Zinsky

    @jc: We need to press for a grand jury investigation into allegations that Trump raped a 14 year old when he was in his 50s. Jeffrey Epstein knows the truth about this repulsive pink-scalped pervert in the White House. We need to make sure this rapist/pervert dies in prison!

  194. 194.

    BoDiddleySquat

    @lamh36: Remember in the movie “Empire of the Sun,” where the child who’d been separated from his parents in Japanese concentration camps? There is a scene where dozens of parents are trooped by dozens of kids, trying to figure out whose was whose. The horror of the scene is that it is clear some kids and some parents just don’t know — the kids were to young to remember what their parents looked like at separation, and the kids who had been very young at separation now looked so different as kids that the parents couldn’t tell.

    Whether fiction or based on true stories, since the Trump brownshirts have already lost track of kids and parents, I predict same thing will happen here.

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