Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

No one could have predicted…

Let there be snark.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

There is one struggling party in US right now, and it’s not the Democrats.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

Democrats have delivered the Square Deal, the New Deal, the Fair Deal, and now… the Big Joe Biden Deal.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

You are here: Home / Politics / America / Here’s Your Plan of Action in Response to the President’s Policy Separating the Children of Asylum Seekers from Their Parents: Protests are Scheduled in DC and Around the Country for 30 June 2018

Here’s Your Plan of Action in Response to the President’s Policy Separating the Children of Asylum Seekers from Their Parents: Protests are Scheduled in DC and Around the Country for 30 June 2018

by | 198 Comments

This post is in: , , , , , , , , , , ,

Walter Shaub has the details:

Here’s our tips for a safe protest experience.

For those looking to donate, there’s RAICES Family Reunification:

Here’s their donation link.

If you’ve got other groups you recommend donating to that are helping with this emergency solely created by the President, his Senior Advisor Stephen Miller, and Attorney General Sessions, please put them in the comments.

Take heart that what everyone is already doing is working. If it wasn’t, Senator Cruz – a Latino Canadian who moved to the US so he could become a white supremacist – wouldn’t be submitting even bad legislation in an attempt to change the subject ahead of the midterm elections.

Does anyone really think that Senator Cruz would be trying to do anything, even something bad that he could spin, if his internal polling for his campaign for reelection wasn’t showing that Congressman Beto O’Rourke wasn’t a serious threat? I expect that Cruz’s campaign polling is showing Beto as a very strong and credible threat. The campaigns’ internal polling in their states and districts, which they never release, is almost always much, much better than any other polling as they know what to ask, how to ask it, and who to sample and survey.

Stay angry, get organized, and get ready to mobilize!

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

198Comments

  1. 1.

    lamh36

    Do you think the “policy” will stay in effect still by the 30th?

    @Amy_Siskind
    1m1 minute ago
    More
    They’re in retreat now. Meadows is a Nunes level Trump-diehard.
    “Meadows, the head of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, is offering a new bill that that would allow children to be detained indefinitely with their parents.”
    Keep up the pressure!

    https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1008895305557868545

  2. 2.

    Amir Khalid

    As a friend of Americans and of America, I am heartened that people are not taking this lying down.

  4. 4.

    Brickley Paiste

    @lamh36: Almost certainly not.

    They’ll probably retreat to the Obama era implementation and make a stand there pointing out that they are not doing anything different to what Obama did.

    But that may not be enough since it appears this issue is getting some traction.

  7. 7.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: The Congressional GOP is freaking out. Dawsey’s reporting is that apparently the President, with Miller and Sessions whispering in his ear – and I’m sure Hannity and others he’s talking to at night – thinks he looks weak on immigration right now and has to dig in. And that if he capitulates he’ll look even weaker. And he’s, like all bullies, scared of looking weak. My guess is that this will get worse very quickly. And then come to a complete crisis point. I don’t see the Congressional Democrats blinking. They really can’t. Once you pay the ransom on this, once they let the President knuckle them, they’re done for – he’ll knuckle them each and every time on every issue after that. That’s part of his MO.* So the question is whether he’s willing to sacrifice Republicans up for reelection at the Federal, state, and local levels in November so he doesn’t look weak. My guess is he is willing to do so as he doesn’t care about anyone but himself.

    * From Josh Marshall:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/how-trump-learned-to-be-a-predator

    You really don’t have to go any further than this email from a New York real estate player, who’s crossed paths with Trump, and wrote in more than a year ago to explain the predatory attack strategies Donald learned from his dad Fred way back in the day.

    We now know Trump’s modus operandi intuitively. But it helps to understand where it came from, the logic of it and how it’s succeeded for Trump again and again over decades.

    There is a personality type with a New York developer, one Donald learned from Fred when he carried his dad’s briefcase to acquisition meetings out in the boroughs and it goes like this:

    Donald contracts for a service or good, or the acquisition of a piece of land for $1 million.

    He then does not pay you

    You ask Donald for your million dollars

    Donald yells at you, basely, abusively, wholly out of character to the rich gentleman you broke bread with and made the deal with. He tells you that no, YOU owe him $200,000. Gives you no reason but screams how can you be such a son of a bitch to rip him off, how he’s going to sue you, expose you as a cheat, etc.

    You’re off your pins, defensive. How could this be the guy who was so nice when he picked up the check at Per Se?

    So, you compromise, because human nature avoids conflict, right? This is what he’s gaming you for because once you compromised, you’ve lost. You’ve inferred his premise that you have some complicity in the matter otherwise why would you compromise? You are on the defensive and will never get it back.

    You offer $750,000 as a settlement, angry but want it over and done with. He then sues you. Why, because you’ve already committed yourself to the loss. You volunteered to surrender your position and what will stop you from keeping going?

    I’ve seen many a New Yorker settle things like this with Trump people for 5-10 cents on the dollar and then happy, even eager to keep doing business with them. Why? Because he got in their heads with this aggressively counterintuitive behavior.

  8. 8.

    Platonailedit

    @lamh36:

    a new bill that that would allow children to be detained indefinitely with their parents

    Problem solved. What a buncha fucking horrible people voters have willingly elected.

  11. 11.

    Mary G

    DC is out, but I signed the pledge, even though I don’t usually sign petitions and stuff, because it just results in a lot of requests for money, but this is important and I’m making an exception. I will be at the closest one with two teenagers in tow.

  13. 13.

    lamh36

    @Susan_Hennessey
    This image (by @alexwongcw) is really something. If only for a moment, @SecNielsen seems as disgusted with herself as the rest of us are with her. What a sad and shameful performance, one that will define the rest of her career.

    8:21 PM – Jun 18, 2018

    https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1008882508493152258

    naw she doesn’t seem disgusted at herself, more like she is pissed the reporters in the briefing room called her on her lies and shit.

    Boy the MSM sure loves to give the benefit of the doubt to lying, conniving white women don’t they? Oh except for Dems like HRC…

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Platonailedit: This is what Cruz introduced in the Senate. He spends a lot of time coordinating with the Freedom Caucus and they all spend a lot of time coordinating with Stephen Miller.

  16. 16.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @lamh36:

    Meadows, the head of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, is offering a new bill that that would allow children to be detained indefinitely with their parents.”

    I think Portman’s office is going to get a call from me tomorrow. Fuck these monsters.

    I want the House Fascist Caucus to go into the dustbin of history.

    Also, isn’t indefinite detention a human rights violation?

  17. 17.

    DHD

    At the grocery store this evening, instead of promoting this week’s specials, the pre-recorded announcement mixed with Muzak said something along the lines of “In response to the illegal actions of the Trump administration and in support of Canadian steel and aluminum producers we encourage you to buy local products, of which we have many!”

    But seriously I wonder why the Trudeau government still hasn’t suspended the “safe third country” agreement with the US. Instead they are floating some bullshit about “renegotiating” or “modernizing” it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-canada-us-asylum-safe-third-country-agreement-1.4648172

    It should be, like, blindingly obvious at this point that the US is not a safe country for asylum seekers.

  18. 18.

    hilts

    Great list from Digby

    Which groups to support.

    • The ACLU is litigating this policy in California.

    • If you’re an immigration lawyer, the American Immigration Lawyers Association will be sending around a volunteer list for you to help represent the women and men with their asylum screening, bond hearings, ongoing asylum representation, etc. Please sign up.

    • Al Otro Lado is a binational organization that works to offer legal services to deportees and migrants in Tijuana, Mexico, including deportee parents whose children remain in the U.S.

    • CARA—a consortium of the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, the American Immigration Council, the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services, and the American Immigration Lawyers Association—provides legal services at family detention centers.

    • The Florence Project is an Arizona project offering free legal services to men, women, and unaccompanied children in immigration custody.

    • Human Rights First is a national organization with roots in Houston that needs help from lawyers too.

    • Kids in Need of Defense works to ensure that kids do not appear in immigration court without representation, and to lobby for policies that advocate for children’s legal interests. Donate here.

    • The Legal Aid Justice Center is a Virginia-based center providing unaccompanied minors legal services and representation.

    • Pueblo Sin Fronteras is an organization that provides humanitarian aid and shelter to migrants on their way to the U.S.

    • RAICES is the largest immigration nonprofit in Texas offering free and low-cost legal services to immigrant children and families. Donate here and sign up as a volunteer here.

    • The Texas Civil Rights Project is seeking “volunteers who speak Spanish, Mam, Q’eqchi’ or K’iche’ and have paralegal or legal assistant experience.”

    • Together Rising is another Virginia-based organization that’s helping provide legal assistance for 60 migrant children who were separated from their parents and are currently detained in Arizona.

    • The Urban Justice Center’s Asylum Seeker Advocacy Project is working to keep families together.

    • Women’s Refugee Commission advocates for the rights and protection of women, children, and youth fleeing violence and persecution.

    • Finally, ActBlue has aggregated many of these groups under a single button.

    This list isn’t comprehensive, so let us know what else is happening. And please call your elected officials, stay tuned for demonstrations, hug your children, and be grateful if you are not currently dependent on the basic humanity of U.S. policy.

    Update, June 17, 2018: Thanks to readers who updated us with more organizations fighting this policy. Other good work is being done by the following:

    • CLINIC’s Defending Vulnerable Populations project offers case assistance to hundreds of smaller organizations all over the country that do direct services for migrant families and children.

    • American Immigrant Representation Project (AIRP), which works to secure legal representation for immigrants.

    • CASA in Maryland, D.C., Virginia, and Pennsylvania. They litigate, advocate, and help with representation of minors needing legal services.

    • Freedom for Immigrants (Formerly CIVIC), which has been a leading voice opposing immigrant detention.

    • The Michigan Immigrant Rights Center represents all of the immigrant kids placed by the government in foster care in Michigan (one of the biggest foster care placement states). About two-thirds are their current clients are separation cases, and they work to find parents and figure out next steps.

    • The Northwest Immigrant Rights Project is doing work defending and advancing the rights of immigrants through direct legal services, systemic advocacy, and community education.

    • Young Center for Immigrant Children’s Rights works for the rights of children in immigration proceedings.

    • The Women’s Refugee Commission has aggregated five actions everyone can take that go beyond donating funds.

    • And finally, the International Refugee Assistance Project (IRAP)—which organizes law students and lawyers to develop and enforce a set of legal and human rights for refugees and displaced persons—just filed suit challenging the cancellation of the Central American Minors program.

    h/t https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/06/psa-how-to-help-with-border-crisis.html

  19. 19.

    Brickley Paiste

    Seriously? What is objectionable about my comment?

    I was responding directly to the first post in this thread.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: That was taken just after Huckabee-Sanders said something to her as they swapped out at the podium. Makes you wonder what Huckabee-Sanders said to her.

  23. 23.

    Miss Bianca

    You know, one of the things that makes the goddamn *maddest* about all this shit is that I was looking forward to some quiet downtime at the end of June. It’s like, “Goddammit it, you fucking Nazis, can you just *stop* with making every non-Aryan’s life a total nasty, brutish, and short shitshow every goddamn fucking DAY, so that all of us who actually despise everything you stand for wouldn’t have to spend all our time rallying, donating money we don’t fucking have to organizations and political candidates who oppose your efforts, and ending relationships with friends and family members who support you, all to show that we are NOT fucking Nazis?!”

  24. 24.

    Ohio Mom

    @Mary G: That’s exactly what I did. A lifetime of deleting unwanted email solicitations I can live with, what is happening to those children and their parents I can’t.

    So far the closest demonstration is in Columbus, which is doable, but I expect a Cincinnati one will soon be organized.

    Time to buy new foam core and think about what I will write on it. This time, it can’t be funny or cute. Any ideas?

  30. 30.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: as Brian Beutler pointed out last week, if McCain is well enough to tweet, he is well enough to subpoena trump’s tax returns, which he can (according to Beutler) do as a committee chair

  35. 35.

    Ruckus

    @lamh36:
    Do you think drumpf would sign it?
    Do you think that if he vetoes the bill that congress will override?
    Do you think that if he is overridden and the bill becomes law without him he will enforce it?
    Do you think that if he doesn’t enforce or follow the new law he will be impeached?
    At this point in time I’m taking the safe bet and going with the answer NO to each question.
    OTOH
    What if all of that comes true?
    How much damage do you think he might do before he’s frog marched out of the building?
    Do you think any criminal charges would be brought against him for that damage?
    How long do you think before dense gets run out of town?

    I know, one thing at a time. Not sure we have that much time.

  36. 36.

    satby

    @lamh36: McCain will die as he lived, a party before country guy. Don’t expect any different.

    Looks like there’s a march planned for Chicago. That’s where I’ll be.

  37. 37.

    oldster

    Well, if the game is still on come the 30th, then I am on for the game.
    I still have my pink hat from the Women’s March in DC, the day after inauguration.

    I wore it at the Science March in DC later that spring. I wore it at the Women’s March Anniversary in NYC this January.

    And I’ll be proud to wear it in DC on June 30th, if the call comes.

    Hope to see some of you there.

  38. 38.

    lamh36

    when asked about the comparison to Nazi Germany:

    @briantashman
    Follow Follow @briantashman
    More
    Sessions says this is not like Nazi Germany “because in Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country!”

    MUTHAPHUCK!

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: – and I’m sure Hannity and others he’s talking to at night –

    Maybe trump and Sean are calling Loud Obbs to make it a three-way

    conversation, that is

  40. 40.

    Mnemosyne

    Reminder for folks who work for large companies: your company may do matching charitable donations. The Giant Evil Corporation I work for will match my donations up to $20,000 per year, and the list of charities they match is huge.

    I will be checking the official list tomorrow to see who I can donate to on Digby’s list that will receive a matching donation.

  43. 43.

    Redshift

    @Ohio Mom:

    Time to buy new foam core and think about what I will write on it. This time, it can’t be funny or cute. Any ideas?

    I’m thinking of something like “We will not submit to bring ruled by monsters”.

  44. 44.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: isn’t it amazing that one sad-sack, twisted, neo-nazi loser of a human being like Stephen “Gacy” Miller has more power and influence over a nation of 335M people…AND everyone/anyone arriving at our borders…than the GOP majority currently sitting in the United States Senate?

    What a sub-par reality this is.

  47. 47.

    Percysowner

    I pledged. I can’t make Washington, but there’s going to be one in Columbus, so I’ll be there. What’s a few more emails to delete compared to the lives and happiness of children?

  48. 48.

    Mary G

    Story with a twist at the end in this thread:

    A long time ago when I was in college I was lucky enough to play in a great D&D campaign called (by the players, anyway) Catholic World. Eric was a superb GM. It was a low magic, high morals world. I don't think any of us ever scored a +1 weapon, but we knew right from wrong. 1/— Bryant Durrell (@BryantD) June 18, 2018

  58. 58.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    Despite claims, GOP immigration bill would not end family separation, experts say

    A new House Republican bill that supporters claimed would end the White House’s new policy of separating children from parents at the border would not actually halt the policy, experts told NBC News.

    The draft bill, crafted as a compromise between conservative and moderate Republicans, includes longstanding White House demands that would make it easier to detain children for longer periods, deport them more quickly, and make it harder for their families to claim asylum under the law. It also contains a list of other White House priorities, including cuts to legal immigration and funding for a border wall, as well as a path to legal status for recipients of DACA, called Dreamers.

    But immigration lawyers, policy analysts and activists say that there’s no language in the bill that overrules the Trump administration’s decision to criminally prosecute parents, which places them in federal custody away from their children and is the direct cause of the current wave of family separation — nearly 2,000 kids have been taken from their parents in recent months, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

    […]

    While the bill would not reverse the zero tolerance policy, it does address the legal decision and anti-trafficking law the White House has criticized.

    First, there’s the 1997 Flores Settlement Agreement, which sets the standard for treatment of minors at the border. It requires authorities to release them as soon as possible to a family member or program that can care for them and keep them in the least restrictive setting possible until then.

    This settlement does not require parents to be separated, though.

    Under President Barack Obama, officials responded to an increase in families from Central America at the border seeking asylum by putting them together in family detention, which ran into legal and logistical problems. Since then, the typical policy has been to release families into a supervised program while their cases were adjudicated.

    While most families show up to their hearings afterwards, the Trump administration considers this approach “catch and release” and would prefer to hold them while their case is resolved. The new GOP bill would clarify that there’s “no presumption that an alien child who is not an un-accompanied alien child should not be detained,” effectively paving the way to keep families in detention for longer periods.

    The GOP bill also amends the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (TVPRA), which makes it easier for unaccompanied children who are not from Mexico to seek shelter in the United States. If the new bill passed, Wolgin said, they could potentially be sent back to their home countries more swiftly, even if there was not an established system in place to care for them.

  60. 60.

    Ruckus

    @lamh36:
    You know, now that you mention it, when I went to summer camp we weren’t allowed to leave either. And the food was bad and there wasn’t enough of it. Kinda reminds me of the navy.
    OTOH I wasn’t 5 or 6 at summer camp or the navy. And I knew I was going and when I was coming back. And my parents weren’t arrested while I watched and I wasn’t stolen from them.
    So yeah, I’m failing to see that it’s quite the fucking same.

  61. 61.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: I dunno. Yes, I realize it’s shallow to wish that I didn’t have to battle fucking American Nazis. That I could live my little, broke-ass, insignificant life without having to devote time I don’t have, money I don’t have, and other resources I don’t have, to protest the fact that my so-called government, in my name, is committed to rounding up, jailing, and killing non-white people as a fucking policy, knowing that this revolting episode in our shabby history represents just the latest iteration of White America’s fucking monstrosity. I know it’s shallow of me to wish we were actually better as a nation than we are, so I didn’t have to protest the fact that we aren’t. It’s shallow of me to wish we could just adopt basic human decency as a tenet to live by. It’s shallow, and it’s certainly un-American. That’s just how I feel like rolling right now.

  63. 63.

    Shell

    Do you think the “policy” will stay in effect still by the 30th?

    My first thought too. Things are moving pretty quickly now…

  65. 65.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @lamh36:
    Not true. They were eventually shipped out after the Nazis had taken over neighboring countries IIRC.

  66. 66.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ohio Mom:

    A lifetime of deleting unwanted email solicitations I can live with

    You don’t even have to do that. Every one of them has an “unsubscribe” option — admittedly, at the very bottom of the email, often well-hidden amongst a great deal of verbiage, and almost always in the tiniest font possible. But it’s worth finding and selecting — will save you hours of annoyance and a great deal of bandwidth.

    /signed/
    The Voice of Experience

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ruckus:

    I’m sure they are, but I wouldn’t be surprised if RAICES is on there, too. It’s a pretty extensive list.

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah, I didn’t volunteer for this shit either. I just tried to point out a contrast by one artist. I thought you would appreciate it. My bad.

  71. 71.

    lamh36

    @MichaelAvenatti
    34m34 minutes ago
    More
    If a single family from the U.S. that looked like mine (white) tried to enter a foreign land and was detained, with their child taken from them and nobody would tell them where the child was, it would be an intl crisis. The St Dept and others would be demanding action. And yet…

  72. 72.

    lamh36

    Not saying this is directly because of the “zero tolerance” policy…but this policy does embolden predators to use the fears of the parents to the predators advantage. “Don’t say anything or I’ll get you deported and take your child and kep her”

    @NBCNews
    Follow Follow @NBCNews
    More
    Texas detention officer charged with “super aggravated sexual assault” of a 4-year-old girl after authorities say her mother, an undocumented immigrant, was being blackmailed to stay silent about the abuse — or face deportation.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/texas-deputy-sexually-assaulted-undocumented-immigrant-s-child-sheriff-says-n884176?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

  73. 73.

    satby

    @Shell: the new GOP proposals aren’t any better, just propaganda really. We need to turn out in force. 11 days to plan huge marches isn’t that long.
    And they need to be huge. I hope bigger than the Women’s March.

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    If I may be so bold, it’s pretty difficult to appreciate a lot today. I think it’s great to try but I wouldn’t expect a lot of positive results, no matter how well intended or how positive an answer it was. I do think we should all keep trying to be positive so we don’t slip into the bottomless pit of despair that it’s easy to fall into in crisis times like this.

  75. 75.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: Unfortunately this happens all the time. There was a sheriff in Arizona who was closeted. He got seriously infatuated with a young man, then threatened to have the guy’s boyfriend deported, then, if I’m recalling correctly, actually did try to have the guy’s boyfriend deported. This all eventually came out, he was forced out of office as sheriff, and then he tried to run against John McCain for Senate. Bad cops, like bad bureaucrats, bad business owners, bad teachers, bad doctors, bad what have you prey on the vulnerable because it is easier to do so.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    Kilgore Trout
    ‏@KT_So_It_Goes
    38m38 minutes ago
    More
    bush and obama wouldn’t implement forced separation primarily because they’re not evil men but also because someone told them sir the logistics this creates are hellacious and unless you spend years preparing and millions of dollars children will die and you will own it

    This is true. Taking care of peoples’ kids is a big responsibility and the minute they took them from their parents they own it.

    They’re not set up for it. STATES are set up for it, because states sometimes have to do it, but the federal government is not.

    So Bush and Obama may have been decent and decided not to for various reasons, but one of those reasons was likely because they’re not stupid and they had competent advisers who told them “this is a logistical nightmare and will end badly for you because we in the federal government are not in the child wards of the state business”

  78. 78.

    Ohio Mom

    @SiubhanDuinne: I swear, sometimes my attempts at unsubscribing from various lists have led to even more email — I think that they take that checked box as evidence that a sentinent being does indeed exist at that address, and they double down.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    @satby:
    The original Women’s March in LA was big enough that I and a whole lot of my newest friends couldn’t even get there. This year we managed because Metro added an additional double car to each train and ran more trains. It was still standing room only. And the March for Life was about the same. I expect a lot more people to this, even on short notice. I’m going, even if I end up once again not being able to actually walk that far and have to stop and rest.

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yep. And bad people will be drawn to work at these bad, chaotic places where the kids are warehoused because they know that the chaos will make committing their crimes much easier.

    I really am fully expecting to hear about massive abuse of these kids. The staff has been primed to know that they can do anything to these kids and the government will cover it up for them.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kay: @Mnemosyne: States aren’t set up for it on this scale though. Children will die as a result of this. I don’t say that to be mean or snarky. It is simply the truth.

  84. 84.

    Frankensteinbeck

    For those saying Trump will stick to his guns or veto, remember: Trump is a coward of legendary proportions. He is far beyond normal cowardice. We will never win any confrontation of wills, ever.

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ruckus:

    We can revive Team Gimpy and Slow!

    If it’s the same or similar route, I vote that we stop at Grand Central Market for lunch this time. It’s a shorter walk.

  87. 87.

    Adam L Silverman

    Ya think?

  88. 88.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    Guys like Miller and Sessions want exactly that. They claim it’s part of the “deterrent.”

    Of course, as Adam can probably attest from a criminology POV, there’s zero evidence that you can “deter” desperate people from trying to get to a safer place. Hanging people for stealing a loaf of bread did nothing to deter them from doing it rather than starve.

  89. 89.

    lamh36

    Alright, I’m going to bed now.

    Had to take a bit of a break from the news so that I can rest without the voices and images of children cryiing out in despair for their mom or dad..so as I said, I watche the MTV Movie/TV Awards.

    Black Panther won 4 awards: Best Hero, Best Villain, Best Movie Performance, and Best Movie, over Infinity War, which I thought would win for Villain and Movie. My money says while folks enjoyed IFW, that Black Panther film stays with you longer than IFW does.

    But I’m biased.

    Good night BJ

  90. 90.

    Ruckus

    @Ohio Mom:
    I have an email address that I never use for anything having to do with politics or business. I don’t give it out to anyone. I get political emails to my regular address and to this other address. I get two of everything. I generally delete about 20-25 emails a day with 80-90% of them political. And 100% of those are asking for money.

  91. 91.

    Teddys Person

    @Ohio Mom:

    Stop State Sanctioned Child Abuse

    Society Should Protect Children Not Toture Them

    Compassionate Not Complicit

  93. 93.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman:
    No surprising in the slightest. We don’t need any Cletus Safaris to understand these people. They are evil. Full stop.

    Isn’t indefinitely detaining people a violation of the UN Human Rights Charter? How long before countries start sanctioning us for this?

  94. 94.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    This is why they’re already trying to claim that none of this is their fault — it’s all the parents’ fault for bringing the kids!

    But all but the dimmest of them realize that what happens to these kids while they’re in custody is now OUR responsibilty. And Trump’s responsibility. That’s why they’re so desperate to pretend otherwise.

  95. 95.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Mnemosyne:
    Exactly. I think the whole “deterrence” rationale is just a cover to torment and kill people.

  96. 96.

    oldgold

    Stephen Colbert
    One thing I know for sure: no one on the right side of history has ever had to nitpick what the definition of “cage” is.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Brian Tashman @ briantashman
    Ingraham calls migration from Central America a “slow-rolling invasion” of America

    her special guest is the KKKeebler Elf

    Sessions says this is not like Nazi Germany “because in Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country!”

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    It is supremely his nature, that’s for sure.
    But, read that email from someone who knew him and how he worked in real estate that @Adam L Silverman: posted above. The more his back is up against the wall the more he will try to fuck everyone around him. And he has some pretty shitty enablers, people who have no actual responsibility but plenty of influence because he is in so far over his head. I don’t seem him backing down, because that would signify weakness to him. And he’s put himself into such a shitty position that any backing down in any direction makes him look weak and feeble or even more so than he does now. And no one on his team is going to make any suggestion of a different path, not given who he’s surrounded himself with. Remember he is a massive narcissist, a textbook case. He has been this way his entire adult life and he learned from someone just like him, his dad. And he has learned that for him this is the only successful way. He hasn’t actually been all that successful but that’s not what it looks like in his head.

  100. 100.

    dmsilev

    @Ruckus: Wish I could make it on the 30th, but alas I’ll be on a plane all day (heading east to visit family). I am sending the ACLU some $$$, and probably also to some groups doing direct aid to the victims.

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: It’s more than that. I’ve published on security responses in regards to allegations of crime and terrorism by migrants, refugees, and/or asylum seekers. This was specifically in the EU. I found a negative correlation between the rate of crime and/or terrorism with the rate of asylum grants/awards. And no correlation with that of immigration from outside of Europe.

    But it goes beyond even this. I’ve spent a lot of time, both in Iraq and at echelons above brigade, working on issues pertaining to internally displaced persons and refugees. No one, NO ONE either crosses thousands of miles on land with their children or thousands of miles at sea or entrusts their children to others to ferry them these distances if things aren’t worse and more dangerous where they are. While I’m sure there are a statistically insignificant number of people who intend harm, largely to members of their own immigrant communities, trying to make it to the US, the vast majority are in flight to safety. They are desperate to reach that safety otherwise they wouldn’t risk everything to try to achieve it. And it is why if and/or when they do reach that safety they tend to be some of the most productive residents and then citizens you can find because they’re grateful for that safety.

  102. 102.

    Adam L Silverman

    For those grousing about Manchin last night:

  103. 103.

    NotMax

    @oldgold

    Wait until the administration starts describing the incarceration as enhanced accommodation techniques. Any day now.

  105. 105.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    Team Gimpy and Slow.
    I like. Not being on the team but if we are going to have a team and a name, let’s at least be honest.
    You sound like you are up for this.
    Any other LA juicers in? Team Gimpy, Grumpy and Slow is taking applications.

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    It really is. State custodial care isn’t even at the “state level”. It’s at the county level. Because no one would be insane enough to create a state-wide custodial care situation- it would be too big and impossible to run properly, just on child safety grounds, let alone GOOD care.

    But the Trumpsters made a national scheme, on the fly. Which they plan on administering thru HHS. IN DC. That’s an insanely bad idea. It’s amazing that it didn’t occur to any of them that they were accepting complete responsibility for the well-being of these children and that that is a HUGE responsibility. Each child. In all these states. Run from DC.

    There;s a reason there were no federal “wards of the state”. No one was dumb enough to put it in before the Trump Administration.

  108. 108.

    Mandalay

    I expect that Cruz’s campaign polling is showing Beto as a very strong and credible threat.

    Probably so. While we don’t know what Cruz’s data is showing, we do know that published polls are showing that O’Rouke is closing on Cruz:

    Sen. Ted Cruz leads Democrat Beto O’Rourke 49 to 43 percent in a new poll conducted for one of O’Rourke’s Democratic allies.

    That must rattle Cruz since O’Rourke had very low name recognition before he declared his candidacy less than three months ago.

  109. 109.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Which is interesting because the original planning for the Final Solution was just to expel all of Germany’s Jews and then the Jews from wherever the NAZI conquered and occupied. This was eventually determined to be infeasible, so the NAZIs decided to just kill them all.

  110. 110.

    dmsilev

    @Teddys Person: In fairness, it looks like she was wrong about the ‘half’ part. Available evidence, sad to say, indicates that the fraction is much larger.

  114. 114.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    There’s a lot of the dim ones then. Because they are trying to blame the people that come here, no matter what is done to them. You do understand that according to the shithead nazis, a 5 yr old has full control over their life don’t you? Gets to make decisions about where to live, who to allow to shoot at them, how much money the gangs that rule their country get to steal from each person, how much to pay for housing, what kind of job the parent(s) doesn’t get……..

  118. 118.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Kay:
    Whatever happened to small government? Something else Goopers have revealed they don’t actually believe in, except where and when it is convenient. Over and over again.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    It’s amazing that it didn’t occur to any of them that they were accepting complete responsibility for the well-being of these children and that that is a HUGE responsibility.

    They don’t accept the very concept of responsibility. They do things, and then other people clean up their mess while they move on to make more messes.

    And then they blame the people doing the cleanup for creating the mess.

  125. 125.

    Mary G

    @Kay: This. And in LA County, where I have friends who are retired social workers, the system is already way overfull with budgets busting and workloads insane. The thought that the feds can just drop off 1,000 kids a week, even spread all over the country, is insane. They are horrified, because there is so much that goes into taking care of the children beyond beds and toys and meals, that there is not nearly enough capacity available, and these private prison people will try to do it and have a tragedy on their hands. I found the discussion of the consular workers in that audio really awful – they just sound hopeless and overwhelmed and pulled in every direction at once.

  126. 126.

    Platonailedit

    When Jeff Session's own church says he's basically an idiot and refutes his disgusting policy to separate children:

    I Can't love this enough!!!https://t.co/Iv1xcCqu1U— Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) June 19, 2018

    These racist scums are godless, which falsely accuse the liberals are, 24×7.

  127. 127.

    Platonailedit

    Next time Sarah Sanders holds a Press conference, instead of asking questions, the entire White House press corps should just play the audio released today of the screaming and crying children being torn from their parent's arms.

    These aren't normal times. Start acting like it!

    — Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) June 19, 2018

  128. 128.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Ruckus:

    I don’t seem him backing down, because that would signify weakness to him.

    But here is the thing: Trump IS weak. He is pathetically weak. He is the most abject coward I have ever witnessed. He has no willpower, and no courage. This is a man so weak that as President of the United States, with no one over his head to worry about and the absolute power to fire his subordinates at his whim, still can’t do it unless he will never have to look them in the face again. He’s so utterly pathetic that he has to wait until someone gets into another car and have the people there tell that person they’re fired. Trump backs down from every confrontation. He’s a giant chicken. It isn’t whether he wants to look strong, or even desperately craves to look strong. He is incapable of strength. All of this at a monumental scale, absolute championship cowardice like most people can scarcely imagine.

  130. 130.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I think back to all the immigrants that came to the US from Europe decades ago. The vast majority of them had the equivalent of a few dollars in their pockets, if that much, and the clothes on their backs. You know, a lot of the people that some/most of these defenders of freedumb and bullshit are descended from. I see no difference in them or the people that or asking for asylum today. In reality that’s exactly what those people that came to the statue were doing. My grandmother was brought here as an infant from Sicily. My father’s family came from Scotland/Ireland a very few generations earlier. My great, great grandmother was supposedly pure Blackfoot Native American on his side. We have a regular commenter who became a citizen last year.
    This just isn’t who we are supposed to be. It isn’t who I am and it isn’t who my friends are. We are better than this and that’s why we are protesting in 11 days and voting for far better people.

  132. 132.

    Mandalay

    Tucker Carlson is ignoring the politics completely, and taking a different approach to keep his audience happy: the cost:

    The cost is entirely on you — but don’t complain, or else they will call you “Hitler.”

    Not sure why he thinks his audience would be offended at being called Hitler.

  133. 133.

    dww44

    @Kay: o/t, Kay, but did you see Kasich on Brian Williams show this evening? While I’ve always known that Brian, like a lot of members of the msm, worships at the feet of Kasich, and so much wants him to run for President, I couldn’t help but remember all the remarks from you that I’ve read over the last couple of years about your governor.

    While I didn’t see the whole thing,Kasiche did opine that he hoped the Mueller Investigation finds nothing on Trump…. the country doesn’t need another Watergate/Nixon drama. …..

    He’s like all GOP’ ers aspiring to be reelected, preferably to higher office, he cannot be honest because of his party’s base… He has to bow down in abject obeisance to it. The only remedy is to elect Democrats in November and for at least 3 election cycles thereafter.

  134. 134.

    Fair Economist

    @Adam L Silverman:

    States aren’t set up for it on this scale though. Children will die as a result of this. I don’t say that to be mean or snarky. It is simply the truth.

    I was thinking the same thing. The ICE child prisoner population will soon exceed the entire nation’s resources for institutional placement of children. And as others have pointed out, tent cities in South Texas are going to have deaths in the summer.

  138. 138.

    Yarrow

    @James Powell: Everyone can see which way the wind is blowing on this issue. Manchin is a good enough politician that he knew he needed to get on board.

  139. 139.

    Duane

    @lamh36: Retreat is good, but not nearly enough for what they’ve done and will do. Complete decimation of the republican party is a good start, more will need done.

  140. 140.

    Aleta

    @lamh36:
    I didn’t check these, but from twitter, some Ingraham show sponsors:
    Orkin
    Eli Lilly
    Beaches & Sandals
    Angie’s List
    Home Advisor
    Match
    SiriusXM
    My Pillow
    Duluth Trading
    Ace Hardware
    (After her comments about David Hogg, Ace Hardware dropped her (along w 20-25 other companies) but then Ace returned after one week. )

  141. 141.

    James Powell

    I signed up for the LA even – location TBA. What do I do the rest of the week? I want to drive down to El Cajon, but I’m not sure where the place is and would like to know if there is anything organized. Are there any San Diego Juicers in the know?

  143. 143.

    burnspbesq

    @Ohio Mom:

    Time to buy new foam core and think about what I will write on it. This time, it can’t be funny or cute. Any ideas

    How about a replica of the “go to jail” card from Monopoly, with Trump’s face on it?

  147. 147.

    hitless

    @Teddys Person: I want to start seeing “Hillary was right” bumper stickers listing off things she was right about….”Putin’s puppet” being number one.

  148. 148.

    Mnemosyne

    I know that half of them are probably bots, but I’m still astounded at how many allegedly “pro-life” people are 100 percent on board with ripping actual babies out of their mothers’ arms. I was expecting more of them to be all “sorry we have to do this, but” and, nope, they’re gleeful about it.

    It’s almost like it was never actually about babies at all, innit? ?

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    You seem to be misunderstanding.
    You are correct that he is weak. But weakness to him is what he thinks it is, not what we think it is. His entire fucking universe revolves around the giant stick he has stuck up his ass. His world extends only as far as he thinks it does. And his weakness right now is not the same as we’d like it to be. He has moron motherfuckers working for him, who tell him only what they want him to hear. He listens only to faux news and only then to those who support him 100% His reality and our reality is so far apart that it’s an immeasurable distance. And he bases what to do next on his idea of weakness not on ours. He’s finally become king. He’s learning that isn’t true but that’s his reality, not ours. Until congress yanks that pole out of his ass, his world will revolve around that. Or until he has a massive coronary or stroke.

  151. 151.

    jl

    I guess Cruz would find a way to make himself look just as bad as Trump. So, indefinite immigration gulags.

    Just a reminder of what cynical, vile disgusting people these are, remember that Trump knows damn well his big bad border wall is a dumb campaign stunt and nothing else. Even a dimwit like Trump understood that the big bad Mexico border wall was a useless waste when a campaign adviser first suggested it. But Trump threw it in one of his bigot rallies, it went over big and Trump has been all in ever since.

    And of course, data show now immigration crisis, no immigration crime wave. But Trump goes all in and now starts aiding very dangerous right wing European bigots

    Trump is racking up more counts at a record clip for his impeachment and trial, if a miracle happens and we get them.

  152. 152.

    jl

    Trump should have kept up his Canada warmongering. Good time to pivot to a Canadian border wall. I think Santorum was the idiot who put up that trial balloon, but not sure.

    Then Trump could deal with this like he dealt with his North Korean PR stunt: suddenly declare the problem ‘largely solved’ and move on his next piece of BS.

  154. 154.

    B.B.A.

    @jl:

    Trump knows damn well his big bad border wall is a dumb campaign stunt and nothing else.

    I don’t think he does. I think he truly believes that building a wall will make America a white ethnostate that worships him and his giant penis.

  159. 159.

    Platonailedit

    NK nutter to visit his chinese masters. His 3rd visit in 3 months. Guess they will mock the other ignorant nutter in their get-together.

  161. 161.

    sukabi

    Angela Rye ain’t having it.

    “I hate to explain rudimentary procedure to you,” Jennings replied, his voice dripping with condescension.

    “I’m going to tell you what,” Rye cut in. “You don’t ever have to explain anything rudimentary to me. Let me be very clear: what I’m telling you is you should know that they have more than enough votes to do what they need to do.”

    “Can you count to 60? We have 51. Come on,” he replied, trying to claim obstructionism was causing problems, but those were the last words he was able to get out for the remainder of the debate.

    “No, you come on. You better watch it Scott, seriously,” she retorted. “What I’m trying to tell you is that you have a majority… Here’s what you’re battling with, morals, moral authority. Where is the moral authority of this party that has blindly endorsed all of Trump’s bigotry, xenophobia, racism? That is what is behind this policy. The reality we are all facing now is there are children paying the penalty for no reason when their parents are coming here seeking asylum.”

    She noted that every panelist on CNN that evening talked about those seeking asylum from gangs like MS-13 and violence, but “your attorney general doesn’t know any better because they haven’t asked the questions.”

    “They have not taken a single moment to find out why these people are risking their lives to come to this soil where they’re put in harm’s way. So, how’s that for counting?” Rye closed.

  162. 162.

    jl

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I was just suggesting an easy way out for Trump. Canada has nothing to worry about. We make trouble, they shut down US branches of Tim Horton’s and Boston Pizza and we fold. Done. End of story.

  163. 163.

    Platonailedit

    As is true for all Mammals, we nurture, care for, and protect our young. So I’m guessing that if we were Bears, ICE agents who separated children from their parents would have all been mauled by now.— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) June 18, 2018

  165. 165.

    CarolDuhart2

    Midnight Rant in honor of @efgoodman: Fuckem.

    All the trolls are coming out on the organizing threads with Twitter. They are trolling us with “Open Borders”. I don’t give a shit anymore. Let them all in like 1890 and sort them out later. I would rather have a million undocumented people who appreciate being here over the obsessed right-wingers. Let those people go to Norway or Russia instead where everybody is white or something.

  167. 167.

    jl

    @CarolDuhart2: With Hispanics, it was pretty much open borders until the Great Depression. No one cared all that much about immigration from Latin America. Not when everyone was pissing themselves over hordes of invading Chinese, Jews, Italians and Slavs. Businesses in SW wanted workers. Ever since the GOP bigoted and racisted their way out of getting any Hispanic votes, they have cynically used Hispanic Immigration as a wedge issue. It’s a total fraud.

    There were long periods when there were quotas on pretty much every immigrant group except Mexicans, and when there were quotas, they were often ignored.

    Even so, the scumbags are running on fumes with ‘Open Borders!’ Obviously the administrations criminal behavior has nothing to do with that.

  170. 170.

    jl

    @sukabi: 150 years ago Norway was a poor undemocratic shithole country, full of impoverished illiterate yokels starving down the farm. The country didn’t send its best, it sent a bunch of ignorant peasants who didn’t speak English, wouldn’t lose their accents, ate weird food and wouldn’t assimilate. It was a disaster, sad, and low class.. a mess It was almost as pathetic as Sweden.

    Who the hell wants to go to a country like that?

  171. 171.

    Aleta

    Melissa McEwan
    ‏@Shakestweetz
    As the @ProPublica audio of crying migrant children started, my dogs looked around urgently, trying to find the children in need of comfort. That’s the instinct of fucking dogs, but not of the president.

  172. 172.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    @jl: Uffda, whatcha talking about, lefse and lutefisk weird food? We assimilated yust fine, ya sure you betcha.

  173. 173.

    jl

    Interesting twitter exchange on Sessions BS about him and Trumpsters not being fascists. I didn’t know the history. Marshall is a PhD in history, so I assume he does know.

    @joshtpm
    ‘ Indeed, initial plan was expulsion. ‘

    @chirshayes
    ” If I’m remembering my Third Reich history correctly, I think the first use of the term “final solution” was in a memo describing an initial plan to expel all the Jews from Europe.

    Other than that great argument why you’re not a Nazi! ”
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1008912124859637760

  174. 174.

    Platonailedit

    How many dem cong critters voted for the current nazi head of DHS? They are also part of this problem.

  175. 175.

    West of the Rockies

    I read somewhere tonight (from a link here?) that Stephen Miller’s family is unhappy with his efforts.

    They should disown him. Fuck blood. He is a dead-eyed, dead-soiled, heartless toad. I hope he goes InCel for the remainder of his pointless, vile life.

  176. 176.

    Platonailedit

    Imagine being so powerful you could make one phone call and (BAM!) you’ve reunited thousands of scared, confused little kids with mommies and daddies who miss them.

    Now imagine how sick and broken and empty you’d have to be inside to choose not to make that call.

    — Jason Kander (@JasonKander) June 19, 2018

  177. 177.

    CarolDuhart2

    @West of the Rockies: Don’t know how much money his family has, but I would go further and disinherit him. Let his fellow Nazis take care of him. He’s Jewish-let no synagogue allow him as a member, no org either. He should be a man without a group.

    Google “Demographic Winter” and a lot of the Russia-American right wing cooperation becomes clearer. Russia has a declining population, and white Rural (Republican) America has a similar problem. Both groups also are suffering from a loss of prestige-nobody cares anymore what they have so say.

  179. 179.

    jl

    @CarolDuhart2:
    ” nobody cares anymore what they have so say. ”
    And whose fault is that? The racist reactionaries have nothing to say worth hearing, that is not dangerous nonsense.

  180. 180.

    sukabi

    @Aleta:

    Melissa McEwan
    ‏@Shakestweetz
    As the @ProPublica audio of crying migrant children started, my dogs looked around urgently, trying to find the children in need of comfort. That’s the instinct of dogs, but not of the fucking president.

    Fixt it for h e r

  182. 182.

    James Powell

    @B.B.A.:

    I think he knew “build a wall and make Mexico pay for it” was a great line to use with bigots AND that if it came to it, it would be a great way to shovel taxpayers’ money into crony contractors’ pockets.

  183. 183.

    jl

    @B.B.A.: I read multiple reports that the Mexico wall is not Trump’s idea. A campaign adviser suggested, And Trump thought it was a dumb idea until it was a huge hit at his rallies.

    OTOH, as Larry Wilmore said, Trump is the kind of person who believes something has to be true because he just heard himself say it.
    So, the two theories are not mutually exclusive. Could be both, by both Marshall’s Trump’s razor criterion, and the Wilmore Trump Axiom.

  187. 187.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @jl:

    Could be both, by both Marshall’s Trump’s razor criterion, and the Wilmore Trump Axiom.

    Sounds like there’s math involved, they said there’d be no math.

    ETA: I ended up falling in the yard about a hour ago when I took the girls out. Tripped over a border thingie that was around a tree that’s not been there for a year. Fuck, I was going to Mt. Pinos to do a Milky Way shoot.

  190. 190.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @schrodingers_cat: Orderly retreat, falling back to a defensible position, not rout. We need a rout.

    @lamh36: Meadows smells an opportunity to seize the Speaker’s gavel.

  193. 193.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @rikyrah:

    From that tweet thread:

    Tucker Carlson: “No matter what they tell you, this isn’t about helping children. A lot of people yelling at you on TV don’t even have kids, so don’t for a second let them take moral high ground. Their goal is to change your country forever.”

    DE Mom: “If you don’t have children, you have no right to an opinion on this?”

    Carissa: “Then he needs to shut up about abortions, breastfeeding, women’s health and real men problems.”

  194. 194.

    Thoughtful David

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    As near as I can tell, in his long life, McCain has done the right thing exactly three times. Normal people do the right thing about three times a week.
    His reputation as a “maverick” and “honorable” is wholly undeserved. Despite occasional pretty words with no substance, his as big an asshole and hater as any of them.
    Fuck John McCain.

  195. 195.

    maurinsky

    If you live in CT, my political action group has organized rallies for THIS SATURDAY at various locations around the State, including New Haven, Newtown and Hartford. Come to the Capitol Building on Saturday at 4pm, and go to DC next week!

  196. 196.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Adam L Silverman: All I ask is that Broccoli Paste’s mutilated body be discovered in a dumpster sometime in the next few days. Can you derange that, or should I turn to my Nort Joyzee relatives whose names end in a vowel?

  197. 197.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That nice lady has ALL the grit !! I’ve been torn up by a kitten, a house cat kitten… A bobcat is a big big, strong mean critter, and her special bobcat was rabid crazed maddened.

    All the grit!! Grab hold, and don’t let go evah! Very strong and determined.

    I was glad to see her medical cost bleg topped out quickly. Horrible that someone attacked by a rabid animal needs to worry about her bills!!

    Years ago driving along the Arkansas river in Colorado we stopped for lunch at a little country place which had the typical pics of locals with giant trout, elk with fearless hunter and his rifle. Then there was the photo of a guy holding a couger (aka mountain lion) under its front legs, it was as long as he was tall. Lady at the counter tells us it jumped his dog in the back yard, he ran out of the farmhouse and killed the couger with a 2×4… He had grit too.

  198. 198.

    SWMBO

    @Ohio Mom: WE’RE GOING TO VOTE AS IF THEIR LIVES DEPEND ON IT And have a picture of a crying child or a room full of them.

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