MSNBC’s Jacob Soborrof who has been reporting on site in Texas on this for the better part of the past week repeats the question over and over:
Where are the girls?
Where are the toddlers?
We have asked for access and will continue to.
— Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) June 17, 2018
Still asking. https://t.co/WvxifbkPcn
— Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) June 18, 2018
And again:
Just asked @HHSGov about seeing girls and toddlers again. https://t.co/8POk4JfHzI
— Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) June 19, 2018
He has reported on air on MSNBC today that he’s been informed that the news media will be provided by the government with pictures and videos of separated girls and toddlers being held in detention in two days. In the meantime they offered him:
Update on toddlers and girls: @HHSGov just offered me photos of facilities with girls and toddlers from 2016, long before zero tolerance was enacted.
I said no thanks.
Still trying to get in.
— Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) June 19, 2018
The only reason that the government can’t or won’t provide photographic and documentary evidence immediately and will not allow journalists to take those pictures and make those videos themselves is to control the narrative. They need time to make sure everything looks presentable in the materials they are going to present to the public via the news media. They do not want and cannot afford to have another audiotape like yesterday’s, let alone a videotape, leak out and get published again. It is also why they will not allow Senators and Congressman to tour the facilities without advanced notice. Such as Senator Nelson (D-FL) this morning down at the facility in Homestead, FL.
?BREAKING: After being denied access to detention facility in Homestead Florida housing children separated from their families, Florida Sr. Senator @SenBillNelson accuses @DHSgov of “hiding something” & engaged in a “coverup” in video below. pic.twitter.com/c7IF1YyYwF
— Fernand R. Amandi (@AmandiOnAir) June 19, 2018
John Sandweg, fmr. acting Dir. of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in some cases the children and parents separated at the border may never reunite.https://t.co/7ROz8T6yJO
— MSNBC (@MSNBC) June 19, 2018
MSNBC’s Julia Ainsely has reported that not only will it take years to reunite these children with their families, some will never be reunited at all. (emphasis mine)
The former head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told NBC News that migrant parents separated from their children at the border are sometimes unable to relocate their child and remain permanently separated.
“Permanent separation. It happens,” said John Sandweg, who served as acting director of ICE under the Obama administration from 2013-2014.
Sandweg’s warning contradicts White House messaging that the separation of women and children migrants under the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy is only temporary.
While a parent can quickly move from detention to deportation, a child’s case for asylum or deportation may not be heard by a judge for several years because deporting a child is a lower priority for the courts, Sandweg explained.
“You could easily end up in a situation where the gap between a parent’s deportation and a child’s deportation is years,” Sandweg said.
As a result, parents may find themselves back in their home countries struggling to find their children. Many do not have access to legal counsel or understand the U.S. immigration or judicial systems.
Children who stay in the foster system for lengthy periods of time may become wards of the state and finally adopted.
“You could be creating thousands of immigrant orphans in the U.S. that one day could become eligible for citizenship when they are adopted,” Sandweg explained.
Sandweg says he has seen permanent separation happen when a parent is deported without his or her child.
“This is why family unity was critical for us. With the numbers of families crossing ticking up, [the] Obama administration was concerned about children being left behind,” said Sandweg.
Speaking on Fox News Tuesday, White House Director of Strategic Communications Mercedes Schlapp insisted the separations were short term.
“We have come to understand that these families who are separated, it is for a limited period of time between five to ten days,” Schlapp said.
Much more at the link.
Mercedes Schlapp, the daughter of Cubans who sought refuge and asylum in the US after her father was imprisoned and tortured for six years by the Castro government, is a liar and a hypocrite, but we already knew that.
I’ve spent a lot of time working with internally displaced Iraqis, on issues dealing with internally displaced people (IDPs) and refugees in the Levant, and with USAID’s Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) officers. No one, not Mercedes Schlapp’s father in fleeing Cuba, nor people fleeing the collapse of the state and society in Guatemala, Honduras, and Venezuela, as well as other places, leaves everything behind, grabs their children, and walks hundreds and thousands of miles overland or traverses the same distances on the ocean, just because they want a chance to earn a few more dollars. The people that take these most desperate of measures, do so because as dangerous as it is, it is less dangerous than staying where they are. And they do so with only these thoughts in mind: at the end of the journey is safety, at the end of the journey is hope, at the end of the journey is the United States!
This was the belief that drove Stephen Miller’s maternal grandparents as related by his maternal uncle (emphasis mine):
“The Glosser family escaped Europe as dirt poor immigrants, joined the community, built businesses, and honestly sold goods to their fellow Johnstowners,” Glosser wrote. “My nephew and I must both reflect long and hard on one awful truth. If in the early 20th century the USA had built a wall against poor desperate ignorant immigrants of a different religion, like the Glossers, all of us would have gone up the crematoria chimneys with the other six million kinsmen whom we can never know.“
I’m sure Stephen Miller’s maternal grandparents would be so proud that their grandson grew up to be exactly the kind of person they fled to the United States to get away from!
It was this same belief behind Senator Cruz’s father’s flight to safety from Castro’s Cuba. All so that Senator Cruz, a Latino-Canadian, could grow up to be a white supremacist from Texas! America truly is the land of opportunity…
Leaving the hypocrisy aside, the more important takeaway here is that a significant number of these children will never see their parents again as a result of a decision made by a Republican president. That not a single Republican senator or congressperson will do anything significant to stop. You know, the Republican Party – the party of family values! And given the size and scale of this new policy put in place by the President and Attorney General Sessions at the urging of Stephen Miller, as well as the haste and lack of planning that went into it’s implementation, we should expect that this number will be far, far higher than the failures that former Acting Director Sandweg related.
At least HHS employee being honest – on briefing call, HHS’ Steven Wagner says “***This policy is relatively new***, we’re still working through the experience of reunifying parents with their kids after adjudication.”
— Erin Burnett (@ErinBurnett) June 19, 2018
The simple truth here is that because of the size and scope of the President’s policy of separating children from their parents, significantly more children will never see their parents again. Moreover, because DHS and HHS know they can’t afford to let Americans, including US senators and representatives, see what is actually happening in real time, they are doing everything they can to control access and the flow of information; especially pictures, video, and audio. It reeks not just of covering their asses, but of Theresienstadt. And it should because the size and scope of implementing this policy is way beyond the ability of HHS to implement safely and effectively.
The more children they separate, the more they’re going to rely on contract solutions. I know a lot about contract solutions – I am one. And I can tell you that as they rush to do this in a hurry HHS is going to wind up defaulting to the lowest bidder who can argue effectively that they can provide the contract solution required. Or they’ll award a no bid to one of their existing omnibus contractors. Even if those companies have no idea how to do any of this work. Those companies will then quickly move to hire whoever is willing to do the work, regardless of actual/real qualifications. Instead of hiring a large cohort of social workers and licensed child care professionals and pediatric nurses and kindergarten, primary, and secondary teachers, you’re going to get whatever bodies they can hire, for the minimum amount of pay they can possibly offer, thrown at the problem. Children are going to suffer as a result of this. Beyond just the trauma of being forcibly separated from their parents. Children will suffer from neglect, from negligence. Some of these children will die. All in the name of putting America First in order to Make America Great Again. And so that Stephen Miller can own the libs…
This is going to get much, much worse before it get’s better.
Stay informed. Stay angry.
Open thread.
lamh36
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Homan is a big toe in human form. And one with toenail fungus too boot!
burnspbesq
Miller is the equivalent of a war criminal. One can hope that someday he will get what he deserves.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36:
burnspbesq
@Adam L Silverman:
Homan needs to be sued under section 1983 and stripped of immunity. Let his house become a shelter for refugees.
debbie
The fact that they thought they could palm off photos from 2016 doesn’t bode at all well. Is there any way the ACLU or some other group could sue on behalf of the parents?
trnc
They’ll probably hire undocumented migrants for the contract work.
Mary G
Thank you for this righteous rant, Adam. The fact that they want two days to get photos of girls and toddlers is damning. The fact that these families won’t be reunited because ICE, HHS, and ORR can’t be bothered to even write down a name just makes me want to vomit all over a Border Patrol agent’s shoes. And I know where to find some.
MagdaInBlack
‘a significant number of these children will never see their parents again as a result of a decision made by a Republican president. ”
I dont have any coherent words at the moment
jl
” That not a single Republican senator or congressperson will do anything significant to stop. ”
They’ll do something to stop it if they can pass bills that contain poison pills that will do something or somethings else just as bad.
BJers should challenge their Congress GOPers and media when they spout BS about ‘solving’ the problem with the BS GOP partisan bills that will produce other results just as bad. And from polling, things that over 80 percent of the US population disagrees with, like stomping on legal immigration to US. Or rushed immigration process, or permanent immigration gulags for families.
Don’t let the skunks and con people off the hook with dishonest BS and schemes.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: Wolf asked him the question 2x…and dude long paused both times…smh.
I know jobs are sacarse for some but my gawd…there has to be someone who works at any of these faciities where the kids, esp the girls and toddlers are housed.
Hell…someone has google spy glasses or something?
Like I said on the previous thread…my money says, DHHS/HSA have no idea where the girls and toddlers are, or at the very least, they have no real accounting of where they are and how many
That’s why they need “two more days” watch then it’ll be Friday or a news dump late Friday. or it’ll be we’ll have it after the weekend
Gin & Tonic
@lamh36: If/when this shitshow is over, I want Jared and Ivanka to be afraid to go out in company for fear they will be spat on by one of us humans with an actual conscience.
ruemara
I can’t tell you the damage the decision to come here alone did to any sort of mother daughter relationship I could’ve had with my mother. It’s not just the lack of bonding. It’s the failure to protect. It’s the way being isolated from the person who’s supposed to care for you makes you vulnerable to being a target. I despise these people for what they’ve done and if it’s ever in my power to do so, I will ensure that they carry the shame of it every day of their lives. I have no doubts that some of these children are in danger and it’s the American government’s fault. Considering Donald and the people he surrounds himself with, it may be by design.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Here you go:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/border-crossing-guatemalan-mom-sues-trump-admin-not-saying-where-n884821
More at the link.
lamh36
Mary G
@ruemara: It is very definitely by design. Both to try to scare other people from coming and to satisfy their sadistic instincts by ruining the lives of helpless children.
lamh36
Gravenstone
Someone in Congress needs to nail Nielsen’s hide to the wall under oath and threat of perjury. Produce a complete and current list of all facilities housing both the children and their parents. Include numbers on site and who has day to day responsibility for the immigrants. Delay on providing the information to be met with escalating fines and/or jail time.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That was pretty much the deal trump, egged on by Miller and Kelly, blew up back in IIRC March
lamh36
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
My father, well-meaning (against family separation and Trump in general), asked me why aren’t they seeking refuge in Canada or other countries. I didn’t have a definitive answer but it boiled down to they didn’t have the ability/resources to reach Canada and other safer places for asylum. He said they should just walk to the consulate in their country and apply there. I told him it wasn’t that simple but didn’t know why. Could someone enlighten me a little?
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Nothing like real time leaks from a closed door meeting.
Yarrow
Why can’t they get a judge to sign off on a search warrant for the facilities? Potential child endangerment should be a good enough reason to search.
Edit: By “they” I mean someone like Senators or Representatives.
Gravenstone
@lamh36: did anyone mention to Shitgibbon that Sanford lost his primary, before Trump turned on him? Or did his two functional neurons actually find each other across the morass of his empty skull and he actually remembered that little detail his own self?
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@lamh36:
Trump probably thinks his brother is named Luigi.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: We’re 1/2 a continent closer to them than Canada is. It is simple geography.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks, I will be trying to follow this. i don’t think Cuomo stands a chance with his lawsuit, but anything that keeps this horrific situation in the headlines can’t be all bad.
lamh36
FUQ it…Chelsea Clinton for PREZ!!!
Chelsea Clinton’s poise and grace with her clapbakcs on twitter are fabulous!
ruemara
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: They’re running from a kakistocracy and to get to Canada would require paperwork, money and giving up secrecy. Seriously, you’re fleeing gangs that actually are the police at times. Do you think your attempt to go to a consulate, apply for asylum there, get passports and then fly out, would just happen for Luz, who’s maybe earning $80 US a week?
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36:
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Embassies/Consulates are in the capital or major cities not in each town. These people are desperate or they wouldn’t take their life in their hands and make the perilous journey.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: No, his brother is a correspondent at CNN.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh36: Dueling leaks
The Sanford comments are pure dominance politics– “I can take any one of you out at any time”, even though a lot of reporting suggests Sanford kind of gave up campaigning a while ago
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: This is separate from Cuomo’s lawsuit, but the more pressure that can be brought from as many directions as possible, the better.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I’m so fucking sick of these soulless shits. The one thing that might save us is how stupid and incompetent they all are. God knows what kind of shit we’d be in if they knew what the hell they were doing. I hate these people.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Spineless Republican congress critters deserve it.
TenguPhule
Throw Trump and his minions to the Hague.
From the plane in mid-flight, if necessary.
Calouste
@Yarrow: You’d think considering the general incompetence of the regime that some of these facilities would be covered under state law, not federal law, and the local police can just search them on suspicion of child abuse.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wonder if his own party likes being lied to? Has that even dawned on them yet?
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Consulates won’t let them in. And are not designed to protect that many people.
jl
Very important tweet from Josh Marshall.
@joshtpm
Very careful abt saying Congress needs to do a “legislative fix”. No “fix” is needed or possible. This is purely a White House decision. They just decided to do it. The “fix” is Congress providing some ransom to Trump for the kids.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1009203916003823617
Anyone sees a Trumpster or Congressional GOPer, or ConservaDem or media peddling BS about Congress ‘has’ to do something, then contact them and call them on their BS.
The appropriate and clean ‘fix’ is for Trumpsters in WH to knock of the criminal policy. Period. Full Stop. End of Story.
trollhattan
@lamh36:
There’s one difference between somebody who bothered to go to class and whatever the hell Kris Kobach did with daddy’s money at Harvard, Oxford and Yale. Chelsea is one smart cookie.
TenguPhule
Sex slaves and mass graves is how this horror story ends.
Adam L Silverman
@Calouste: There is an argument being made that even as (makeshift) Federal facilities they are subject to state laws pertaining to child welfare and therefore state officials have the ability and the requirement to make no prior notification site inspections, write citations, and take people into custody. It will be interesting to see if any of the states with Democratic governors and attorneys general decide to make these moves.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
Federal Fucking Immunity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Mike in NC
Maybe when they’re old enough a bunch of these missing kids will be allowed to join Fat Bastard’s gonzo “Space Force”.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
@schrodingers_cat:
@ruemara:
I knew the part about the geography. That was pretty obvious. I can’t believe I didn’t think of the fact that the consulates are in major cities. Thanks!
TenguPhule
@lamh36:
The people left who work at the internment camps want to be there.
lamh36
Adam an update:
TenguPhule
@Mike in NC:
Only as rocket fuel.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Don’t forget executive bonuses and offshored profits!
Brickley Paiste
@lamh36: What’s she talking about meeting her namesake? I didn’t see reference to that in the twitter feed. (I hate twitter)
TenguPhule
@Gin & Tonic:
You think it will stop at just spitting?
jacy
Maybe we should stop concentrating on getting rid of trump and instead concentrate on getting rid of Stephen Miller. Not kidding.
lamh36
@lamh36: What dafuq are they hiding!
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Per the 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, a refugee is someone who is outside his or her country of origin owing to a well founded fear of persecution. Subsequent UN actions and US law have tinkered around the edges, but the basic principle stands.
Mary G
Central Americans will be posting things like this on FB soon, if they aren’t already, so no, the bad old days are not behind us in the least,
Here is the site where the letters are collected. They were looking for transcribers so I signed up. Better to work usefully than read twitter all day fuming.
Yarrow
@Calouste: That was what I was thinking. There are facilities in a lot of states. Some of those states have Dem Governors. Can’t some of them order that welfare checks be done or somehow get a judge to issue a search warrant?
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
I’m waiting for someone to suggest tattooing a number on their arms as a way of guaranteeing the kids will be able to find their parents.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
I’d almost bet they won’t have any detention facilities in even slightly blue states. It would be foolish to think Miller hadn’t already gamed this out.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Lack of jurisdiction and not knowing where some of the facilities actually are.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The US already had exceedingly stingy interpretations of how and when to grant asylum. Largely because we have the immigration courts within DOJ as opposed to within the regular Federal courts system where refugees and asylum seekers would have greater protections and legal options and opportunities. Rather than be at the whim of whomever is attorney general. One of the things that will have to be done after the interregnum is to legislatively move immigration issues to the regular Federal courts and take this all away from DOJ and out of the hands of the attorney general.
wjs
This is a great article, and it goes further than most to point out the hypocrisy of these descendants of desperate immigrants who are now “pulling up the ladder behind them” so that no one else can have the opportunities they currently enjoy.
I’m wondering if, at some point, it will be illegal to identify someone’s genealogical heritage and use that against them in public. It is very effective to point out that many of the supporters of the Trump Regime escaped in one way or another from Cuba and are now part of a monstrous effort to make sure no one else who has Latin American heritage can come to this country and make a life for themselves.
It’s also important to own up to America’s history of helping murderous regimes in Central America (Trump’s personal heroes in the banana republics of old) up until the present day. Why is there no sympathy for anyone from Honduras or Guatemala or El Salvador, to name a few, given our own complicity in making those countries the kinds of failed states that Trump seems to admire these days? We should own up to our shame and give these people a home here in this country.
It is the least we could do.
Chet Murthy
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
I’m not qualified, but here’s some starters. I’m sure Adam has much better info, as do others who comment here.
Warsan Shire (award-winning British poet of African descent)
[more at the link]
It follows in a pretty straightforward manner, that if you’re ready to become a refugee, waiting to be approved where you live is dangerous. It’s well-known that in the case of the US, it takes a long time to be approved as a refugee by the government, right? I mean, the numbers are pretty stark: 85k in 2016, a cap at 50k in 2017. That’s for the entire *world*. So if you’re a refugee, knowing that there’s an international treaty guaranteeing that if you present yourself at a port of entry and make a claim of asylum, they have to allow you to stay until your case is adjudicated, what should you do? Remain in El Salvador, the murder capital of the world? Or hoof it?
And just in case the next question is “why are we responsible for their inability to run their governments?”:
Nicaragua: perhaps your father knows the history of the Somozas and Sandinistas? The pe’re of the Somozas was the National Guard commander when United Fruit ran the place; Sandino was the leader of the rebels who beat those National Guard. Somoza and Sandino met for a parley, and was assassinated by Somoza. Of course after that, there was the Contras, etc, etc, etc.
Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador: we’ve repeatedly invaded and destabilized their governments. Right into this century.
And of course, our insatiable appetite for illicit drugs has done a number on those countries. Honestly, I don’t know how they recover, EVEN IF they were to legalize all the drugs. B/c it’s hard to knit back together a failed state.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: Correction: country of nationality, not origin. FYWP won’t let me edit.
jl
Big problem with a Congressional ‘fix’ is that if the Trumpster can bald face lie and do whatever they want with current law, they will do the same thing with whatever Congress does in next few weeks. Anyone peddling BS about this, politician or local or national media, needs to hear about the truth from you and told to say it out loud. Media needs to report out the truth, or go down in history with a very bad crowd. Might mention that to them.
Of course, the Congressional side of this plot is to pass an unneeded ‘fix’ that sneaks in other policies just as bad and just as unpopular with the vast majority of the country. Or, to BS around and not do anything (which is most likely) and use that to smear the Democrats.
And of course, even if Congress does something, Trumpsters in WH free to lie about that and move on to some other enormity.
Holaitsmonica
The crying you hear on that recording is terror and trauma. We as a nation are responsible for that. I am a social worker, a mandatory reporter of abuse and the abuser is my nation. I am so sad and mad. Children have to be protected from my government.
debbie
@Yarrow:
Do you know this for sure? I’ve heard about expanding onto military bases, but those sites wouldn’t have to comply with state requests (as far as I know) (which I know isn’t very far).
Calouste
@lamh36: So asylum seekers to the US produce 75% sons and 25% daughters, compared to the 50/50 of the rest of the human race?
Or maybe we have to go with the other explanation, that 5,000 girls have been sex-trafficed.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
The calls are coming from inside of the room!
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Thanks!
TenguPhule
@debbie:
We have confirmation that at least some of them are in New York. We just don’t know where in the state they are.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: And, as you know, the convention was ratified by the US Senate, so has the force of US law.
BoDiddleySquat
@lamh36: At this point, given Trump’s Russian oligarch connections, I think it’s fair to ask if some of these children, especially those whisked off to Homestead, aren’t in the pipeline to becoming sex slaves. Ponder this while recalling KKKirstjen’s happy bullshit about how they’re keeping the kids well-fed and sheltered. They’re not doing that for the kids’ sakes.
They’re doing it as an investment in the biological chattel; a little bit now ensures a higher ROI later.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Apparently there is one in NJ and one in Massachusetts.
debbie
@TenguPhule:
In the very, very red part of the state, no doubt.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, it was, and, yes, it does.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Is it wrong that I want to start beating defenders and excuses of separation to a dead pulp with a baseball bat? It would be wood, not aluminum…
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
How many divisions can the Eagles of the Supreme Court muster?
TenguPhule
@debbie:
We don’t know. HHS is not releasing that information.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Of course they are.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Our AG is running on being a check on Trump’s policies.
ETA: He’s also the only person that Gov. Jerry cut commercials for in the primary.
TenguPhule
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: As long as you don’t get caught and remember to remove any traces of evidence.
NotMax
Tattooing them (say, on the inside of the forearm) would make it so much easier to keep track. And kids love tattoos. //
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: That’s the Marshal of the Supreme Court. The legions are his Eagles of Justice. Can you hear them? They’re winging around and around in Louise Mensch’s head…//
Brachiator
Propaganda. Call it what it is. It’s like the Nazis showing how well those incarcerated in concentration camps were being treated when the Red Cross or other observers showed up.
ETA. I spent most of the day in the dentist’s chair. Going on to the Internet again, reading about the evil that Trump is doing, how he is doubling down on cruelty is heart breaking. But it is damned good to see people fighting back, and the best of the press bearing witness.
Mandalay
@debbie:
There’s at least one in Florida. Senator Bill Nelson (D) tweeted this earlier today:
I don’t know whether having a Dem governor would necessarily help in getting access to the children since it is HHS who is doing the blocking.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’d heard that.
lamh36
Even the fuq’n number they supplied even fishy…2x as many boys as girls…REALLY
Like I said before…they are showing the boys instead of the girls because MAGA white folk see boys and they think M-13 gang members.
FUQ’ers…
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/7f/19/b37f19656c8a724f0c3e1790931640b7.gif
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: Hence my Theresienstadt reference.
Baud
@Calouste:
While I don’t give the administration any benefit of the doubt, if we’re talking about unaccompanied minors rather than minors kidnapped from their families by the administration, it would necessarily surprise me to learn that they are disproportionately male.
Amir Khalid
@debbie:
Trump’s experience with the Republican party so far has been that he do or say anything to them, and either they don’t dare fight back or they suck at it. I doubt they enjoy being humiliated and repeatedly fucked over like this. But he’s the most popular Republican leader right now, he’s the only one out there who might have coattails to cling to come November, and they’re going to follow him like those hypnotised kids followed the Pied Piper of Hamelin.
The Ancient Randonneur
@debbie: They have a facility in Oregon.
jl
head thug of ICE lies on national TV that Trumpsters are following the current law. Needs to be big pushback on that. Media too afraid to challenge them on that lie? I think needs to be a big fuss about that particular lie.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1009210699074154496
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Hey Adam, not to get all Alex Jonesy, but can you speak to Dyncorp sex trafficking in Serbia and the fact they have current contracts with ICE?
lamh36
ruemara
@debbie: They have them in NY
NotMax
Anyone happen to know
1) Does the Walton family still own the property in Texas?
2) If so, how much the Fed is paying them to use it?
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: We know where some of the detention facilities are: ICE detention facility locator.
@debbie: See above. There are facilities in blue states.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Jesus.
lamh36
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Jesus Christ. What a hateful, petty little man.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow: Dollars to donuts the kids are not in those official facilities. They’d have to have the paperwork for them there.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
There’s literally a mountain of shit we’re going to have to fix when we regain control. Too much has been revealed to be easily broken and destroyed because one man has too much power in our system. The presidency is too powerful and has been for a while, mostly a relic of the Cold War (though presidents have often pressed the boundaries of their powers long before). Full presidential republics don’t have a great track record of stability.
It took Trump to make me realize this
The Ancient Randonneur
@lamh36: This is compounded by the fact that many of the parents (especially if they are from Guatemala) speak only their indigenous language. It’s been difficult finding enough translators to help them communicate effectively with lawyers.
Inventor
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: In many cases, they have to LEAVE NOW or risk death. If they went to any country’s consulate and applied for asylum, there would be months to years wait to get through interviews, applications, etc. By the time they’ve completed the process, they’re dead. So is their family.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
I call Fake News. I see nothing, NOTHING, about the overwhelming awesomeness of his Electoral College win, nor about the unprecedented size of his Inaugural crowd.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
Just sent a contribution to RAICES. Signed up for the Denver Keep Families Together march on the 30th. Resistbotted Cory Gardner (R-Chickenshit).
Now taking a break for the rest of the night before I turn into a screaming ragemonkey.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne:
So that’s what the kids are calling it these days.
Betty Cracker
Great post, Adam. I’m so pissed off I have to remind myself to breathe sometimes. Nothing less than the utter defeat of these monsters and cowards can save us now.
@wjs: Excellent point. Even among folks who lack the historical context to understand the moral obligation (and Googling “United Fruit Company” should vaporize that complacency in any human being with a conscience), just as a practical matter, our government should be working with other governments to improve the situation.
AFAIK, nothing like that is happening. Has Trump even nominated ambassadors? Incompetent fools, grifters and sociopaths all around, it seems.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
If the size of the crowd remains expanded when retelling the story over 18 months, seek medical help immediately as this may be a sign that you are fucking insane. //
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
The Vatican and Germany immediately come to mind.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
The more I see of Chelsea Clinton, the more impressive I find her. She seems to combine the best qualities of both her parents, with — as far as I can judge — few of their drawbacks. Being human she assuredly has her faults, but I find her a most admirable person.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I cannot. I’ve never worked for Dyncorp. And while I’m sure I know someone who has, I’m not familiar with this at all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: I’m sure he talked to Adm. Dr. Jackson about this and he told him it was the biggest Inaugural crowd he’s ever seen.
James Powell
@TenguPhule:
How about appoint a guardian ad litem and file a habeas petition? Or like 11,000 of them.
VeniceRiley
@Calouste:
Everyone, and I do mean everyone who actually does it, needs to stop conflating the kids that show up unaccompanied at the border (what we are talking about in this number mix – where there is NO SURPRISE because boys are more likely to be let go by their parents to make a journey across 3 countries than girls or toddlers, obviously! And I don’t want them found unless they’re in detention.) and children of whatever age and sex who have been separated from their parents right at the point of entry or border. Those are the kids they’re holding indefinitely, and those toddlers and girls need to be shown and accounted for as SAFE.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m still a little groggy from dental anesthetic and missed it the first time through. Absolutely spot on.
I cannot believe that no one in the Trump administration realizes what memories they are invoking. And don’t they teach military officers about this?
I cannot say that I am entirely surprised, but it is nonetheless chilling to see the leaders of the federal government revelling in the cruelty they are inflicting on children.
Imagine an alternate universe in which Ike and JFK openly supported Southern segregationists.
Jeffro
Wingnuts shoot up pizza places based on false accusations of child abuse.
Lefties follow the process, bang on the door, try to rouse the press and public.
I sure better not EVER hear again that “all the violence is on the Left”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@VeniceRiley: Thank you, there seemed to be some (intentional) confusion being sowed here(by the mal-administration, not commenters here).
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: From the reporting, Kelly has basically given up. I also don’t know him, so I have no idea how deep a thinker he actually is.
My guess is that everything on this is walled off from the folks on the National Security Staff and DOD, so those senior military personnel don’t have any input on this.
TenguPhule
@James Powell:
Why do you think they’re not keeping written records?
“I’m sorry, there is no “Name X” at this facility. You have to go refile in that other state….”
Around and around and around.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
I think the reporting is self-serving bullshit. S_C is right about this, he’s one of the Nazis.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
I’m now enjoying the vision of Callista Gingrich being called into long, frosty meetings with Pope Frankie and his translator — because Pope Frankie speaks Spanish as his first language since he’s from Argentina. ?
As Charlie Pierce likes to say, Don’t fuck with the Society. Jesuits have probably been the most vocal Catholics criticizing this clusterfuck.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
That is the strangest gender-demographic I’ve ever seen.
And I don’t believe it for a minute.
Brachiator
@SiubhanDuinne:
Totally agree with you. I also admire her for the way that she deals with the crap that right wing dopes throw at her. And she is a saint compared to the worthless spawn of Sarah Palin and other supposed “good” Americans.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne: For once, the church’s traditional conservative sexism is working for us.
Felony Govt (Formerly Old Broad in California)
Michael Avenatti is now representing a mother who has been separated from her 6 year old son. He posted a heartbreaking letter she wrote to him. Good. He knows how to ramp up the publicity machine.
Yarrow
Interesting.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: Booman Tribune has a post up about the story about Kelly giving up.
Booman says he’s not sure if coward is the right word for it, but I think it is. John Kelly may be “brave” on the battle field in his military capacity, but on moral ground…he hasn’t a leg to stand on .
Someone said he’s a “moral coward” and I’d say I agree with that description.
Also too, that like Sessions this is what he believes, it’s just that the messenger, in this case Chump is soo undisciplined and unpredictable.
Also too, he a coward because I suspect he doesn’t want to be asked the hard questions that he will most certainly be asked if/when he gets out.
And all this leaking about how he “really feels” is bullshit cowardice!
SiubhanDuinne
@TenguPhule:
Well, then, it's a good thing that NYS is so small and sparsely populated.smintheus
A question for lawyers: Now that Trump has stated that he is taking these children to hold them as political hostages, is that a legal basis for indicting him? If so, are there any states under whose laws he could be indicted, or would charges have to be filed by the DOJ?
It certainly rises to the level of an impeachable offense in my opinion.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: So use the list of official facilities and get warrants to get inside those. When the kids are not there, use that for a court order to force ICE to produce information immediately about where the kids are. Use the system to our advantage.
I’m sure there are other ways to pressure ICE to tell us where they’ve put the kids, especially the girls and babies, but we have to start somewhere. This is one of those places.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
From a May 2018 CNN story.
And Kirstjen Nielsen is Kelly’s creature.
I really hope that the other military folk in the Trump administration are better.
Link
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/politics/john-kelly-immigration-education/index.html
JPL
Trump is a sick, sick person
You just can’t do this to children Let me rephrase that he will use this.
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: I am not going to write a 20 paragraph explanation of Habeas litigation, but that shit would not fly. Produce the person or make a valid legal argument to explain why you have the person in custody.
Mnemosyne
@SiubhanDuinne:
I think VeniceRiley is correct — the Trumpistas are deliberately giving the number of ALL minors in custody, not just the ones who were taken from their parents. If that number includes kids who arrived as truly unaccompanied, it makes sense that most of them would be boys.
That said, where the fuck are the girls and toddlers?
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I’m not saying he’s not. The two also aren’t mutually exclusive.
Groucho48
CNBC headline…
Followed by around a dozen paragraphs discussing how many Republicans in Congress want to put a stop to this but passage of a bill will be tough because Dems want Trump to do it. Then, towards the end of the article they mention that there is a bill all Dems and no Reps have signed. The only discussion of the Dem bill is that “some” people consider it too broad. The only quotes are from Republicans Collins and Cotton.
Cotton :
Then, back to the Republican efforts.
Our liberal media at work.
Brachiator
O/T Breaking news. More rats deserting the SS Trump.
Time and other media.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: It’s also to muddy the water as to what they’re doing and what previous administrations have done. Previous have detained unaccompanied minors for a limited period until they could be placed(usually with relatives). Separating children from their parents is something unique to this mal-administration.
lamh36
TenguPhule
@Omnes Omnibus:
Have you seen the quality of lawyers these Nazis are using these days? Not the best or brightest.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne:
I want every GOP MoC, and every member of the WH Press Corpse, to ask this question over and over and over again, ad infinitum, until they get a decent answer from ICE/CBP/HHS/DHS and the Trump maladministration. In those exact words.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator:
TenguPhule
@SiubhanDuinne:
So until the end of time, in other words?
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: This can’t be a coincidence. And we are officially living in a really bad B movie.
cthulhu
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Some are though these are people generally already in the US. Also , not surprisingly, Canada takes a different approach to refugees.
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: Then there is an order to produce the kid by a certain date. Then there are motions to show cause why they shouldn’t be held in contempt. Then people sit in jail because of the contempt order. It’s not like federal courts haven’t dealt with shitbirds before.
Yarrow
@Brachiator: I guess you missed this part of it when I posted about that earlier:
More on the sex cult. Igtet was Hagin’s Libyan client:
The best people.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and it’s nowhere near a sufficient deal, since subsequently his administration has added to the number of people who were here legally but are now subject to deportation.
Mnemosyne
I don’t care what any of you jackals say — I love Schumer for throwing Twitler’s words right back in his fucking face.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Sex cult? Yikes.
JPL
@TenguPhule: It’s a horror film.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
John Kelly ain’t shyt ?
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Spent most of the day in the dentist’s office getting repair work done. Hard to keep up with the crazy.
Sex cult aside, it appears that this Hagin guy compared the Trump administration unfavorably to earlier Republican regimes. That had to get under Trump’s skin. Trump would likely overlook the sex cult stuff.
japa21
@Brachiator: You could be spending all day here and still not keep up with the crazy.
TenguPhule
@japa21:
Needs to be a rotating tagline.
Brachiator
@japa21:
And I’m not sure which would be more painful, dental work or trying to keep up with the crazy.
Yarrow
@Brachiator: As others have said, it’s just not possible to keep up with the crazy no matter how much time you spend on it. Agree that Trump would not allow anyone who criticizes him to stay.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I’d like to know how he got a clearance.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: With whats her name from Smallville!
sukabi
@TenguPhule: there is at least 1 that was set up in Sea-Tac, but I think it’s for women separated from their kids. And there is the one in Sheridan Oregon.
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t one of drumpf’s “demand-a-clearance” hires. He’s been in the background till now, not like he was high profile like his daughter F.C. or her worthless husband.
Steeplejack
@Brickley Paiste:
Chelsea’s antagonist seemed to be trying to make the point that the name “Clinton” is tainted but infelicitously (and incorrectly) used the word namesake to get there. Chelsea was alluding to that by saying that she had not met her namesake, i.e., another person named Chelsea Clinton.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
You know who else had a home/retreat in the Alps? Of course you do!!!
His name was Adolph something.
You know who that Joe Hagin dude looks just like? He looks like a younger, still on his first heart, former VP Dick Cheney. Exactly like that old nazi. Sex cult, huh… and people wonder where the refugee girls are?
sgrAstar
@trollhattan: kris kobach has mystifyingly (to me) blown his education. He was a Marshall Scholar to Oxford, where he did a PhD before he returned to the US for a law degree at Yale. I’ve read that KK was deeply influenced by Samuel Huntington when he was an undergrad at Harvard. Maybe Adam knows something about that, and whether that influence could explain how someone with Kobach’s potential ended up on the dark side.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Excellent, just what we need. Our own generation of Los Desaparecidos. But don’t let Trumpov know he’s joined the ranks of Pinochet. He’d enjoy it far too much.
Adam L Silverman
@sgrAstar: My understanding is that Kobach was largely moderate until he went into politics. Then he made the decision to go full hard core movement conservative as he determined he couldn’t get elected in Kansas as a moderate. His pet issue, of course, was voter fraud. I have no idea if he has convinced himself by now that he actually believes this stuff or if he’s just acting because doing so has brought him power and wealth.