The horror, the horror of rising wages. https://t.co/jlpMwf2P23
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) July 5, 2018
“What is this eldritch horror that creeps upon us?”
The U.S. labor shortage is reaching a critical point
… A report Thursday from ADP and Moody’s Analytics cast an even brighter light on what is becoming one of the most important economic stories of 2018: the difficulty employers are having in finding qualified employees to fill a record 6.7 million job openings.Truck drivers are in perilously low supply, Silicon Valley continues to struggle to fill vacancies, and employers across the grid are coping with a skills mismatch as the economy edges ever closer to full employment.
“Business’ number one problem is finding qualified workers. At the current pace of job growth, if sustained, this problem is set to get much worse,” Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, said in a statement. “These labor shortages will only intensify across all industries and company sizes.”…
Private payrolls grew by 177,000 in June, a respectable number but below market expectations. It was the fourth month in a row that the ADP/Moody’s count fell short of 200,000 after four months at or above that level.
The reason for the tick down in hiring certainly isn’t because there aren’t enough jobs.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that April closed with 6.7 million job openings. May ended with just over 6 million people the BLS classifies as unemployed, continuing a trend this year that has seen openings eclipse the labor pool for the first time. At some point that gap will have to close. Economists expect that employers are going to have to start doing more to entice workers, likely through pay raises, training and other incentives…
The economy has “bumped against the proverbial labor wall,” David Rosenberg, chief economist and strategist at Gluskin Sheff, said in his morning note Thursday. “Inflation pressures will intensify and the Fed will be forced to act more aggressively, just as has been the case in the past. There is no Presidential Tweet that will stop Mother Nature from taking its course.”
HERESY!!!
[a thousand CEOs frantically look up Econ 101 crib notes to see if there's any way to increase the supply of labor *other* than paying more for it] https://t.co/IwhZGBhTC7
— Kelsey D. Atherton (@AthertonKD) July 5, 2018
I'm not one for market solutions generally but this is the simplest of problems for companies to solve
— Kelsey D. Atherton (@AthertonKD) July 5, 2018
That’s not the part of capitalism that they like though.
— DeeVee (@Deserrama) July 5, 2018
Great thread that shows two things haven’t changed the last 10 years.
1) Employers have been complaining they can’t find enough people willing to work for the wages they want to pay
2) Wages haven’t been growing much faster https://t.co/OkaHH7AlEI
— Matt O'Brien (@ObsoleteDogma) July 5, 2018
schrodingers_cat
R party only caters to other Rs
Rich
Racist
and
Russians
MomSense
There is not one state in our union in which a minimum wage earner working 40 hours per week can afford an apartment.
GOP = Greed Over People
Roger Moore
If they don’t want to raise their pay, employers are going to have to start lowering their standards. Rather than insisting on experienced people for entry-level jobs, they may have to hire novices and even (gasp) train them.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
Slavery?
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Legal as of July 2nd.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
You monster! Next thing you’ll suggest that corporations actually spend money on their workforce instead of poaching them from previous employers! //
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Roger Moore:
It pisses me off. How can employers expect people to be experienced if they won’t hire them in the first place and take a risk? No wonder they’re bumping up against a wall. Ten years of only focusing on people who already have training/experience will do that.
TenguPhule
or Trump could just destroy the demand economy by starting Trade Wars with the entire civilized world.
Beezus
Here in San Francisco – and the entire Bay Area, NO ONE CAN AFFORD TO LIVE HERE, so it is difficult to fill positions as who can afford rent, let alone a house? Seriously, you have to make $100K to survive without a ton of roommates or multiple jobs.
I wonder who will be whipping up the lattes and avocado toast when no one can afford to work here – esp in service jobs. Jul 1 min wage went up, but it can cost upwards of $9 ea way on BART to The City, even more on CalTrain … and, so even if you live elsewhere, why would you pay so much to come in here to work for what you can make in other areas?
Calouste
@Roger Moore: And with the cuts in education funding, training people might involve teaching them how to read and write.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: You’re right, basically employers want you have done EXACTLY the same job and want to pay less in compensation.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Easy, the stupid sap employers of loser business x will train them for us, we’ll just steal them away with a little bonus once we know they’re “good” employees.
/Actual big business hiring plans
Teddys Person
@TenguPhule:
Not to mention the training provided by the public school system.
lamh36
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@MomSense:
Truth. I work part-time as a cashier at a supermarket chain. We’re unionized and I make higher than national minimum wage. The minimum wage in Ohio is $8.30/hr. I make $8.65/hr. I worked 32 hrs last week and only brought home $224.75. That’s not bad for someone like me, since I still live at home. But there’s no way anybody could live off of that alone. And I normally only work 18-20 hrs a week, sometimes less. Something isn’t working.
MomSense
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Well just wait until you are over 50 and told you are overqualified which is code for too old.
lamh36
Roger Moore
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Somebody else is supposed to do that for them. Or the government is supposed to subsidize them if they hire novices. Or something. The last thing that’s supposed to happen is that they have to do any of this stuff on their own dime.
Baud
@lamh36: Trump understands what it’s like to be correctly accused by multiple victims.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@lamh36:
Fuck, it’s like an inverse of “Believe the victim”. Does the “them” refer to the media or the accusers?
Elizabelle
@Baud: Good to see you back. I hope you are around more.
Now what’s this rumor about you and Corner Stone ….
TenguPhule
Inflation only becomes a risk when the possibility of worker’s pay going up arises.
Brachiator
What kind of commie nonsense is this post? Corporations took their massive Trump tax cuts and bought back stock and increased dividends. Just like the baby Jesus wants.
Didn’t Trump promise to Make America Oligarchic Again?
He said it and he dood it.
lamh36
@Beezus: I almost moved to SF over 2 years ago, but the max they were offering was about 95k w/a 10% raise after 1 year, but before the offer came, I had been looking or pricing of apartments and stuff and mahn…w/that 95k, I was STILL gonna be almost living paycheck to paycheck for a year!!! And as a single person with one income…it was just not worth it
Mnemosyne
Pay crap wages, hire crap employees. Employers get what they pay for.
I also ran across an article recently about employers being “ghosted” by employees who just stop showing up or get hired and never show up for their first day. About halfway through the article, some recruiters admitted that the employees doing this are really just reflecting the behavior of employers who never call back after an interview, lay people off unexpectedly, etc.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Por Que Los Dos?
Steve in the ATL
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: so the union got you an extra 35 cents per hour? Are your dues less than that?
Not criticizing unions in general, but that doesn’t sound too helpful.
Patricia Kayden
@MomSense: Perhaps that may change as employers figure out that the best way to attract loyal employees is to actually pay them a livable wage.
Steve in the ATL
@Elizabelle: “Now what’s this rumor about you and Corner Stone ….”
Baud and Corner Stone are the modern day Jesus and Paul
TenguPhule
@Steve in the ATL: Looking to become Steve in Ohio?
Baud
@Elizabelle: I wish I knew how to quit him.
Miss Bianca
Bah, she snarled. I’ve been underemployed for six months now, since getting laid off in January. And no one is beating down my door to hire an expensively-educated 54-year-old woman. Now granted, I do live in a rural community, but even here, I get the ghosting treatment. Including from my *local library*.
I may just have to bite the bullet and move to Pueblo or Colorado Springs. Since the affordability factor rules out the Denver area. Even Springs would be problematic, altho’ I am applying for a job there this week.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
What do all these businesses do with all the money they make, if they aren’t paying their own workers enough to live on? I’m asking this seriously; I don’t know enough about business or economics to know this.
@lamh36: Is there anything worthwhile that Lanny Davis has ever done? Has he ever done anything in his life, apart from when he was Bill Clinton’s chief of staff or something, other than shill for the worst people on Earth? Why does anybody ask Lanny Davis about anything? You know what he’ll say is whatever whichever shitbag client he’s working for wants him to say.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Hahahahahahahahahaha! Great stand up routine. //
lamh36
@lamh36: I do sometimes play what if…and I think that I would have now been living in SF for almost 2 years if I had taken the job…I would have been making about $115K per year before taxes…and it still woulda been rough!!!
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
In other news, I have the monster of all ear infections. I hate everything and everybody right now. Funny how an ear infection will do that to you…
TenguPhule
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Corporate officer pay, benefits and bonus, Board of Director circle money jerk. Management bonus, stock buy backs, dividends. Basically anything that makes the people on top happy and fuck the workers.
Steve in the ATL
@Steve in the ATL: Er, John, rather. Stupid lack of edit button!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
IOW, garbage, in garbage out. George Carlin, as much as he mistook cynicism for wisdom, he was right about that. I’ll never forget that routine he did; “Voters suck”.
The same shitty, corrupt people are churned out from American homes, communities, and schools every year. It applies to every other walk of life as it does to politics. We’ve allowed the foundation of a good society to wither and die and we only have ourselves to blame. “Greed is good”, what a racket.
germy
Steve in the ATL
@TenguPhule: hmmm…they could use fine help decertifying that union….
TenguPhule
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
So you’re the designated Corner Stone today?
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Steve in the ATL:
I started at $8.55/hr and about a month ago it increased by 10 cents. It goes up every six months. Apparently everybody gets a $1 wage increase over the three years the contract covers. Our contract is up and negotiations are underway right now. They’ll come to us and each of the members of our bargaining unit (our store I believe) will vote yes or no for it.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@MomSense: At 48, I’m already there. I need to look for a new job because we have no health insurance AND the owner has allowed a male colleague to treat me poorly and sexually harass me. I could get a lawyer and sue but at what cost to the other people who work at my small company. I care about what happens to them and if I sue them out of business, they won’t be able to find new positions (for a variety of reasons). BUT I have 20 years of experience, I’m older and the salary I would demand is far too much for any companies where I live (which is the far west Phoenix Valley). Now if I don’t mind commuting 2 hours EACH way every day, I could probably get a job with a pay cut and benefits in Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert–maybe. But I don’t have 4 hours to spend in the car every day and I can’t move (or cut my expenses any more than I already have since my divorce). Plus, I’d never be able to get my kids from/to childcare before those places close at 6 pm. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t.
piratedan
@Patricia Kayden: but Patricia, if they start doing that, then the number of people buying lakefront property for those second houses on all of those HGTV shows will plummet!
germy
Elizabelle
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Poor thing. Ear infections are serious.
May there be no zweiback toast and early bedtimes in your future.
satby
I mentioned that I hired the sister of a former co-worker to help me at the farmer’s market two days a week, six hours total. I pay her $10 / hour, a decent wage that’s above the state minimum but generally just a bit higher than the prevailing wage for the area. And you wouldn’t believe the complaints I’ve heard from other business owners about how I “overpay”. Even while they’re telling me how great she is while I’m not there. 2+2, how does that work?
NotMax
OT.
A long shot is still a shot.
Force the G.O.P. to keep diverting money into ‘safe’ districts. Yes to that.
Teddys Person
@Miss Bianca:
Expensively-educated, underemployed 54-year-old women unite!!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
The dues are about $8.12 out of every paycheck, which amounts to 8.12 dollars every week. About a month or so ago, the International Union voted to increase each local’s dues by $2.00 per member. However, our local assured us they would not have to do so since our financials have been handled so well. So there’s that.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Mike J
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Experienced but not too experienced. I know lots of long timers who got early buyouts even when the business was expanding because they cost more than a 22 year old kid.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Oh, those do suck. My son used to get them all the time.
@germy: I saw them advertising that article on Yahoo News. I knew it was BS.
Steve in the ATL
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: ah, thank you for explaining to me how this process works—I had no idea, and am totally haven’t been doing this for 29 years and am not chairing three bargaining tables right now!
$1 per hour increase over three years is less than a $700 increase each year, or $29 per pay period. That ain’t much. I know that margins are tight in the grocery industry, but that’s not worth the time and expense of bargaining. Tell your representatives to get a meaningful increase or GTFO.
Major Major Major Major
@Steve in the ATL: there’s no reason to be rude ?
Steve in the ATL
@Roger Moore: buybacks are also an admission that management has no idea what to do with the money that might actually help the business
Roger Moore
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Have you ever seen a Scrooge McDuck comic? It turns out they’re documentaries.
lamh36
Wait a minute…did I just see a headline that Ed Schultz died?
Natural causes…he was 64?
Steve in the ATL
@Major Major Major Major: uh, I’m a lawyer
Wasn’t intending to be rude. I like Goku. But he is young and there is much he doesn’t know yet.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major:
He’s an attorney.
Steve in the ATL
@?BillinGlendaleCA: thank you! BiG gets it.
B.B.A.
@lamh36: He worked for Russian state media. In that business falling on a bullet is “natural causes.”
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Steve in the ATL:
Hey, I just like playing everything out. It’s a force of habit I have. I wasn’t belittling you or your experience.
I do have my union rep’s business card, so I could give him a call, but we won’t the actual results until months from now.
danielx
Fucking free markets. How do they work?
Edit: free markets are clearly a socialist plot to raise wages.
Another Scott
Relatedly, Byron Auguste at Forbes:
(Emphasis added.)
Cosign.
(Via Andy Slavitt, via LOLGOP on Twitter)
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@?BillinGlendaleCA: @Steve in the ATL: my parents are lawyers (“explains a lot” ha ha) and only one of them is rude.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
“Playing” should be “laying”. Damn autocorrect. And I can’t edit either.
TenguPhule
@Steve in the ATL:
And this differs from normal management, how exactly?
Roger Moore
@Steve in the ATL:
I thought the biggest thing about buybacks is that capital gains get more favorable tax treatment than dividends, so they’re a more tax-advantageous way of giving money back to the shareholders.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Who works for the forces of Evil. //
Chris T.
@Beezus: In SF, a family of four earning $104k/yr is “low income”…
lamh36
@B.B.A.: My thoughts were running the same way…hmm…did MSNBC even say anything about it?
germy
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: It’s a fraud.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/07/02/the-walkaway-meme-is-what-happens-when-everything-is-viral-and-nothing-matters/?utm_term=.18b898c11b52
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
The successful one? //
sukabi
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: both. In Drumpf land the only people to believe are the liars, pervs, and other criminals as long as they kiss your ads.
sukabi
@sukabi: ASS.
stupid autocorrect and lack of edit function.???
TenguPhule
Via Wapo.
Ryan
Huh. If there were only a field, say economics, or sociology as a backup, that could explain how higher wages act as incentives.
Omnes Omnibus
@sukabi: No need to call yourself names.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: I used to do IT support for corporate counsel; one co-worker said it wasn’t a surprisise that I drank, it was a surprising I didn’t keep a bottle in my desk drawer.
TenguPhule
@Ryan:
Experts are a communist plot to steal our floride reserves. //
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
Who the fuck would want to work for a Trumper property anyway? His business has to be toxic to normal people.
Teddys Person
@TenguPhule: Because, of course he does.
Fair Economist
@lamh36: Schultz is natural causes – according to RT. Yeah, hard not to be suspicious.
Maybe someine should mention to Greenwald how many people apparently in good standing with the Kremlin suddenly die of “natural causes”.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Every intelligence agent for every major country on earth. And Russia.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Steve in the ATL:
It’s ok, I forgive you =p
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: ? bet you think you’re funny, doncha?
TenguPhule
@Fair Economist:
Let it come as a surprise to him.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: There’s a reason that I often say I worked for Satan: first, it was an oil company; second, I worked in the Legal Department.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Fair Economist:
Griftwald getting offed by the Kremlin? Make it so, Number One.
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule:
Ha!
@sukabi: I was trying to be nice. See Steve in the Wherever’s comments above.
Brickley Paiste
Easy. Create a new class of workers. Deport 10 million people to latin America and re-admit them under an updated “braceros” program that requires them to work for sub-minimum wage for 10 years to get citizenship. Then get rid of program when the next recession hits.
lamh36
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
They’re admitting it.
MomSense
@Miss Bianca:
Women of a certain age unite!!
germy
@Fair Economist: RT…
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: the male one ?
?BillinGlendaleCA
(Waits for the camera batteries to charge…)
Thoughtful David
Is it just me, or does that mean what they wish it didn’t mean? It seems to me to be a lot of whistling past the graveyard.
I get that there are a lot of open jobs out there, but low hiring. To me this would suggest a regional mismatch in jobs vs. people. The people who can fill the jobs are not where they’re needed. I would guess that this means that Asscrack, Arkansas, has relatively high unemployment, but SFO has very low unemployment. Which would in turn mean the economy of Asscrack isn’t really doing so well. At what point does Asscrack’s poor economy start dragging the rest of the country down?
Miss Bianca
@Teddys Person: “We have nothing to lose but”…wait, how did that go again?
@MomSense: Right on, sister! I guess we’re going to have to set up a BJ employment office! ; )
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: Well, if you can’t trust RT, who can you trust.
RandomMonster
@Beezus:
Seriously, you have to make $100K to survive without a ton of roommates or multiple jobs.
And you can even be making that and not be coming out ahead in Silicon Valley. Which is why I’m leaving.
Fair Economist
@Thoughtful David: Yes, there is absolutely a big regional mismatch. Jobs go begging in successful urban areas while unemployment is 10%+ in rural areas and sinking metros. Housing prices meanwhile have reduced geographic mobility to the lowest in over a century. It is a mess.
Quinerly
Totally OT:Bourdain worth only $1.2 million at time of his death: https://pagesix.com/2018/07/05/anthony-bourdain-worth-only-1-21m-at-the-time-of-his-death/
MomSense
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
I’m at the point where at may take a stupid job at a medical office just for the benefits. This is such a fucking waste for so many of us who can do so much more.
Roger Moore
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Someone desperate for any job they can find. There are a lot of them out there.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Boy, I bet Jim Jordan is LOVING him some Scott Pruitt today!
germy
@Quinerly: Isn’t PageSix Murdoch’s? Don’t know if I’d believe anything coming from them.
Chris T.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): They (a) stockpile it, (b) pay it to C-suite people (CEO, CFO, COO, etc), and/or (c) shovel it out to stockholders. None of it goes to employees.
Mnemosyne
@Mnemosyne:
Sigh. Blockquote fail, but my edit function was taken away on mobile, so I can’t fix it. Sorry! ?
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: oh I know that’s you being nice…???
Peale
@lamh36: we’re not supposed to speak ill of the recently deceased, but I will never forgive Ed Schultz for being an asshole in 2010 and using his platform on MSNBC to tell Democratic voters to stay home. Fucking overpaid asshole who surprise when over to RT.
Omnes Omnibus
@sukabi: ::side eye::
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Elizabelle:
I have no feelings about zwieback either way, but I’m looking forward to an early bedtime.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: are you flirting?
lamh36
This is why the NRA is gungho against the Parkland kids…but these kids are not the kids they are used to ignoring…they won’t be ignored.
and good for them!
Quinerly
@germy: Seems well sourced.
germy
@Peale:
Useful idiot or… ?
lamh36
Omnes Omnibus
@sukabi: ::vaguely uncomfortable::
Felony Govt
Maybe if ICE weren’t raiding workplaces, arresting law-abiding folks who have been in the US for years, etc. etc., there wouldn’t be such a labor shortage.
Jane E
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I have been retired for 15 years now, and they were doing the same thing when I was trying to get a foot in the door. “Entry level” positions that wanted a year of experience, or even more than that. I had more than a few HR people tell me that the ad was not correct, what they really wanted was someone with experience. Translation:entry level wages for a journeyman. There was a recession at the time so they probably found someone out of work and desperate. I got my break because one of the people in the company had worked with the head of the trade school I had attended before and was willing to take a chance on someone he had trained. They didn’t actually advertise the opening, and I was one of 6 candidates they found through word of mouth. Good news – I got the job. Bad news – it was because the interviewer liked my legs. Nothing ever changes really, at least not in one lifetime.
Quinerly
@germy: other outlets reporting the same thing. Will was filed with the court. What I found odd was if his only child had predeceased him, he wanted the bulk to go to the child’s nanny.
Miss Bianca
@Fair Economist: This is the thing. In order to get a better-paying job, I have to be willing to move. But anywhere that would be hiring, and would pay me enough to consider moving there, is going to be hella expensive. Cue Richard Thompson.
lamh36
SiubhanDuinne
O/T: Not sure if there are any other Juicer Jackals who live in GA CD 7, currently represented by Rob Woodall (R Party Line Backbencher). Tomorrow evening (Friday 06 July) from 6:00-8:00 pm, the two Democrats in the runoff to replace him (Carolyn Bourdeaux and David Kim). are debating. I’m going. Admission is free but you do need a ticket. Let me know either on this thread or email my nym at gmail dot com and I’ll provide particulars.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: lol
satby
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: @MomSense: I survived several layoffs before my number finally came up in 2013, at age 59 1/2. And I applied to several IT jobs nearby that looked as if the descriptions were written for me personally, but was never even asked in to interview, while subsistence jobs were reluctant to hire me because “I would just leave as soon as I got a better offer”. I have heard that my age and assumed former salary were what kept me from even being interviewed, they wanted new computer science graduates cheap, not seasoned hands expecting the market rate for the job. They still do, and so those jobs stay open.
lamh36
@lamh36:
Bobby Thomson
@lamh36: if Cohen is at all interested in a deal the feds will put the kibosh on that right quick.
Lanny Davis is a very bad PR flack with one client (himself), not a lawyer.
efgoldman
@MomSense:
Actually, Enormous Brokerage & Mutual Funds LLC basically made me safe for as long as I wanted to work (until 70, in my case). They didn’t want any highly-publicized discrimination lawsuits.
Another Scott
In other news, Reuters:
Why don’t we do $1 Trillion? Do I hear $2 Trillion?!?!!!
(… face-eating leopards …)
Cheers,
Scott.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@MomSense: The healthcare issue is one of the things that just drives me batty. Particularly since before Trumpov and his minions messed withe ACA I probably could have afforded insurance (I didn’t need it at the time because I married). Democratic candidates MUST communicate that having insurance from the marketplace frees people up (to get better jobs or to become entrepreneurs) instead of tying them down to sh*tty employers and/or less pay.
@satby: Thankfully I’ve never been laid off because I was never at a large enough company that did such things. But I know many IT pros who have been. I could probably work where I am now until I croak in my cubicle–a rather ignominious way to go if you ask me. But that death may come a lot sooner since I have no frigging health insurance. I honestly don’t have a lot of options. I can’t even move because of the custody settlement I have for my daughter. It restricts me to a very particular area, which is nuts because it’s one of the more expensive areas in the valley but there are no decent paying jobs nearby. And affordable housing? Forget about it! My attorney said that the Family Courts here in AZ are doing this more and more often lately, telling people where they HAVE to live if they want custody of their kids. So I could get a great paying job with benefits if I give up custody of my daughter. The whole situations just sucks.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@efgoldman: My Mormon boss could give two sh*ts about discrimination and legal liability, apparently.
Jager
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
No paying low wages is cheaper than slavery:
1. You have buy slaves ( good ones are expensive). 2. You have to house slaves. 3. You have to feed them. 4 You have to clothe them. 5. You have to give them medical care.
Much cheaper to just pay low wages and let the workers worry about all that shit on their own
Teddys Person
@Miss Bianca: I live in a high cost of living city but get good benefits at my parttime gig that I wouldn’t get in a lower cost of living city/town. So, they get you coming and going.
Yarrow
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Yes.
Mnemosyne
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Sadly, it’s because he knows that your state doesn’t give a shit about those things, so you don’t have a lot of recourse. California actually has pretty decent worker protections, especially when compared to neighboring states like AZ and NV.
NotMax
@Jager.
FYI.
China, #2 in growing and processing tomatoes into tomato paste (and aiming to become #1 ASAP), has already relocated some of those facilities to Ghana because of lower wages there. Ghanaian tomato farmers driven out of the market now labor under close to slavery conditions in Italy picking tomatoes.
Chetan Murthy
@Patricia Kayden: Two things come to mind:
(1) As Erik Loomis documented in a thread at LG&M, Henry Ford’s famous $5/day wage in 1914 at the River Rouge plant (the one that is taught in schools as “Ford realized that if his workers couldn’t afford his cars, nobody else could; it was benevolent paternalism”) was in fact due to the realization that he couldn’t get workers to stick around for long enough to get trained on his equipment: turnover was too high at assembly-line plants generally, b/c the work was boring, lacked autonomy, progress, etc. Per Erik’s sources, the higher wages actually worked. But then, there was a TON of competition in the early days of the automobile ….
(2) At Sandwichman’s blog (maybe at Barkley Rosser’s — I forget which) there have been a number of posts documenting how owners/managers are VERY willing to leave money on the table, rather than treat labor fairly. That the idea that managers are rational is a risible fiction.
And of course, we can add in Marx’ “reserve army of the unemployed”. I think the idea that managers will raise wages in any substantial way is ….. farfetched. They’ll (a) push for increased skilled immigration, perhaps on onerous visa terms, (b) just put up with lower returns, (c) wait for a bad economy to force people to settle.
B/c as someone said once, it’s AMAZING what people will do, to make sure that their children are fed, clothed, and housed. AMAZING.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
He is such a fucking pig. There really is no bottom with him
A Ghost To Most
@RandomMonster:
I said the same thing 35 years ago. I still do not regret it. California is great, but I do not want to live there. Too many people.
lamh36
Teddys Person
England’s Trump Baby is on twitter
Steeplejack
Daniel Dale’s Twitter thread of Trump’s Montana rally is up. The only way to follow these things, in my opinion.
Click “Show this thread” to see all tweets in chronological order.
P.S. You do not have to have a Twitter account to follow.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@Mnemosyne: True. I’m stuck here until my daughter turns 18. I think she will leave the state and I will probably follow (assuming that I can at that point). I’ve been here almost 15 years now and I hate almost everything about this place.
Schlemazel
@Brachiator:
What is most interesting is that despite the buybacks, despite the increase in dividends share price is about where it was 3 months ago. If you look at the major indices they have been up a little and down a little but are about where they were in March so their plan is not paying off like they suggest it would
germy
sukabi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s going to be embarrassing when the photos are leaked out.
If there were a parade of men showering with the team that had no business being near the locker room, and there are reports that there were, it’s not far fetched that one of the pervs liked to take pictures as well.
lamh36
Schlemazel
@Jager:
That was one of the arguments for slavery back in the mid-1800s – slaves were “better off than waged workers”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Steeplejack: Dear god
Hate our freedoms… sounds familiar. Hate our religion… which one is that, Donnie?
and I don’t think he gets it on any level
germy
@Steeplejack: Interesting thing to say to his base in Montana. I wonder how the crowd reacted to this?
MomSense
@satby:
I went to one interview and the poor guy clearly didn’t know what to do. I basically had to ask him questions and try to start conversation. It was so miserable.
Of course I was over qualified for that job. In that case it may have been true since it seemed like what he needed was a den mother for the office.
Schlemazel
@germy:
“We need WHITE people
that come in under the merit system.”Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel: “Norwegians welcome.”
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: DONNIE is telling Montanans to beware the “New York money” of JON TESTER?
I keep thinking there’s no way the guy can become more tone-deaf, but then along comes something like this. At this point, I think we’re in the negative percentiles.
germy
@Schlemazel: Just so weird to say “We don’t have workers anymore! We need people!” to a crowd that hates “job stealing” immigrants.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca:
“JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOs!!!!!!!!11!!!!!Eleven!!!!!!!!!!!!1”
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, but not the Danes. Screw them. Because THIS GUY. 100,000 acres up to now, 0% containment. And all because an ILLEGAL ALIEN wanted to have a cookout during a Stage II fire ban! Where the hell is ICE when you actually need them?
It’s time we led a crackdown on middle-aged white European guys who overstay their visas. Surely, if ICE can afford to build prison camps for toddlers, they can afford to track these guys better, right?
Right?//
lamh36
lamh36
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Donnie seems to have completely forgotten that *he’s* from New York. Isn’t his money “New York money”?
Well, probably not now, actually.
?BillinGlendaleCA
I took a pic with the new camera, Nikki.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Oddly, I was meeting with a Norwegian client last week and he took a look at my last name and asked if it was Swedish or Danish. Swedish, so okay, screw the Danes.
schrodingers_cat
@Miss Bianca: Moscow money.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Answered your own question.
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Cocker!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes she is.
Kristine
I do not understand how the financial geniuses can fear higher wages while at the same time expressing worry about demand for products and levels of consumer credit/debt. Somewhere along the line, they divorced “worker” and “consumer” and decided to treat them like two entirely different pools.
I recall that prior to the last crash, they felt they no longer needed a functioning US middle class, that emerging markets–Brazil, India–would pick up the slack. I don’t think that worked out as they hoped.
They really want to shake off their need for US workers and they can’t seem to manage it yet.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Cue Carl Sandburg.
:)
Uncle Cosmo
@Omnes Omnibus: Must’ve been an extraordinarily boneheaded Lutefisker. If the name ends in -sen it’s Danish; if -sson, it’s Swedish. Det er ikke Rakettenvidenskab. :p
germy
Norwegian Wood
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: He gets a pass.
Roger Moore
@Chetan Murthy:
We’ll see if that extends to voting for Democrats.
Omnes Omnibus
@Uncle Cosmo: Doesn’t end in either. Not all Scandinavian names end that way.
ETA: Olof Palme.
NotMax
@germy
Just had to drag Nordic gay porn into it, didn’t ya?
:)
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: You know someone was going to do it.
Gvg
@Roger Moore: the point of buy backs is paying off debt that gives outsiders leverage over you. If a company has too much stock outstanding and doesn’t own more percent wise internally than is publicly owned, some corporate raider can come in and buy them up. In a simple case, the new owners can fire the current management and put their own people in so current big shots become laid off and powerless. Their are other scenarios involving buying the company and stripping the assets or loading it with debt to pay out to new owners lots of cash then walking away leaving formerly healthy company to gradually die in debt.
Companies issue new stock to raise money when they need it but that way is selling some of their ownership stake. They generally buy it back when they don’t have a project that needs the capital. Which just means a corperate tax cut is not always a useful and profitable idea but that goes against the GOP’s religion so they refuse to notice it.
A lot depends on what’s going on right then and these cultists can’t understand that.
A fair number of useful companies have been ruined by raiders in my lifetime. Sears I think is one.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Some of the GIFs that people post are hilarious.
NotMaxn
@Omnes Omnibus
Then it’s okey-dokey to bring up Lapp dancers?
:)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Gvg: Toys R Us.
Jager
@Chetan Murthy:
In my old business, broadcasting I was always on the management side of the table, the union on the other side. After one nasty session, my boss and I were driving back to the office and he was bitching about those “greedy fuckers”. It was his default position. A few years ago, we had a nice dinner together, he said, “you know we should have left AFTRA alone, we’d have better people in the business today and stations wouldn’t be paying a million a year for half ass morning shows.” I added, “and AFTRA paid the talent’s health insurance and retirement.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMaxn: Oh My.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMaxn: Groan.
Steeplejack
@Miss Bianca:
That line is from Donald Jr., for what it’s worth.
JGabriel
Claude Lanzmann, rest in peace.
Condolences to his friends and family.
Uncle Cosmo
@Omnes Omnibus:
(Composed, no doubt, by a Dane…:D)
ETA:
Omnes Omnibus
@Uncle Cosmo: Which one is Bjorn?
Mnemosyne
@Gvg:
Toys R Us was just killed off by raiders. They were still profitable, but the raiders saddled them with so much debt that it bankrupted them. ?
Groucho48
@germy:
He was very good on unions and similar labor topics, but, even then, he gave off a strong scent of grifter.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@lamh36:
I had the displeasure of arguing with some asshole sympathizer of Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys on YouTube. Thought it was just great that people got the shit beat out of them. I called them and asshole for saying that. Quoted an SPLC article on the incident, particularly the Proud Boys Oregon Facebook page calling to cleanse the streets of Portland. They claimed “cleanse” wasn’t inherantly violent. Yeah. I even tried using the aggressive red-baiting-type techniques conservatives use (“un-American”, “we’re the real American patriots) and I got nowhere with them.
Jager
@Uncle Cosmo:
How long before we deep dive into Ole and Lena?
Omnes Omnibus
@Jager: I feel that he is going there.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Its not globalization that killed the American middle class its Reagonomics.
The only stakes holders that matter are stockholders, i.e. the investors. Its a rentier economy.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
People always assume my last name is Italian.
It isn’t. It’s Irish.
(Although it was my husband’s name, not mine.)
((Although I’m actually more Irish than my husband was, so FINE.))
Steeplejack
@Gvg:
Mitt Romney, is that you? ?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jager:
Bork bork bork!
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: I know why. And I know how wrong they are.
Miss Bianca
@Roger Moore: You just may have won this evening’s Internets.
lamh36
@lamh36:
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, still waiting for Sven to come in.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
Always sort of wondered if somewhere there’s a monastery with an abbot named Costello.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Dear god.
Steeplejack
@Jager:
Frasering!
Villago Delenda Est
@lamh36: Lanny Davis is a shitstain, so perfect lawyer for another shitstain.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh get a sense of humor All All.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
He was Bjorn with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad.
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodingers_cat: Was it Keynes who once said rentiers should be euthanized? I oppose that. Pain needs to be inflicted in the process.
Steeplejack
@lamh36:
Fixed your link:
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Delete your account.
tomtofa
The world of the American worker vs those elsewhere.
We align more closely to the 3rd world than the 1st:
Is it great to be a worker in the U.S.? Not compared with the rest of the developed world.
Jager
@Steeplejack:
The Pickle slicer
Wedding night
40th wedding anniversary
Thrown out of the super market
Saves a life in a restaurant
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Lordy.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Inch Me and Pinch Me were out in a boat. Inch Me fell out. Who was left?
Also, Google Translate doesn’t really translate my ‘nym well.
The Ancient Randonneur
You’re killing me Smalls.
Miss Bianca
@Steeplejack: My God, I just went and read some of that Daniel Dale Twitter commentary and it is fucking *chilling*. I’ve been trying to ignore the words of Trump and his vile spawn, so it always comes as a shock to me just *how* nasty, brutish, and short-fingered he really is.
Amir Khalid
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Guitar players have NGD (New Guitar Day). Happy NCD.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: LMAO!
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
I’m sure I’ve mentioned that my late ex had a roommate in his freshman year at UF with the last name of Abbott.
No one will ever convince me that the room assignment was a mere coincidence.
Miss Bianca
@SiubhanDuinne: Oh, SNAP!
Jager
@Steeplejack:
Clear Channel/IHeart with his partner Lee
Guitar Center
to name two of Mitt’s big wins.
Has Mitt ever missed a paycheck?
Doug R
@Major Major Major Major:
You’re obviously not a Teamster. If a business can’t afford to pay a living wage, they shouldn’t be in business.
Viva BrisVegas
@Omnes Omnibus:
The sober one.
Steeplejack
@Miss Bianca:
Inorite. Even just reading it via Dale you still get a big dose of the mean/stupid/crazy.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why are you so mean all the time, All for All?
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Noticed there’s a very short documentary on Amazon Prime about the KVMRT. Is anything really progressing with it that might make it worthwhile to take a gander at? Or did Najib suck up that money too?
@SiubhanDuinne
Kismet.
Steeplejack
@Jager:
Not only has Mitt never missed a paycheck, he has hoovered up quite a few belonging to other people.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: Thanks, I’ve got a shoot(with the youngin’) on Saturday night(Milky Way training) and a shoot on Sunday with the Glendale group.
ETA: The lens that came with this camera(16-50mm, f/2-f/2.8) is heavy as fuck.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Let it go. You really don’t want to cheese off the Wisconsonite.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t know Brain, but what’s ten million dead if it’s keepin’ out the Russians?
efgoldman
@Steeplejack:
Weasel Face is holding rallies in ND and MT? If he ever lost those states (and their whopping total of six EVs) than the blue wave is a tsunami. Of course, he doesn’t know or care – he just goes where he’ll get adoring crowds.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Better translation. You asked for sense of humor and I told a joke. To be fair, it works better in person. I will give you that.
Uncle Cosmo
@Gvg:
IIRC the technical term for this is (or useta be) “stock raid”.
Many years ago I ran across an article by SF author Frederik Pohl in which he attributed the post-WW2 demise of “the pulps” (small-format magazines on cheap paper, SF/fantasy but also westerns, weird tales, romances etc.) to just such a stock raid. IIRC the company that distributed these magazines to newsstands & drugstores across the country had in the course of years acquired real estate that was worth more than all its shares – & when the raiders saw this they swooped in, bought up those shares, liquidated the company & walked away with a tidy profit – in the process bankrupting the pulps, which could not survive without newsstand & drugstore sales. Unintended consequences, but massively consequent for the SF/fantasy world.
dr. luba
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Open borders…..
patrick II
There are people willing to work, but lack the training. Business does not want to bear the cost of training novices. Businesses do not want to pay higher taxes for public education. Sounds like a conundrum.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
My work here is done.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Eh, it’s pretty funny, in it’s own way, I must admit. I was only teasing anyway.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: it was a bigly normal and stable event
Elton has an organ.
he also went on a racist rant about Warren claiming to be an “Indian”. Google tells me the Native American vote in MT is about 8%, and the pundits tell me Tester is expecting a close race. Oh, and mocked GW Bush. I got my beefs with Poppy, but when your college educated vote is slipping away, maybe not a great idea to mock the patron saint of country club Republicans? (I hope)
Uncle Cosmo
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, Bjorn started life in this joke as Sven the Svede. Now is it funny?
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
What you did there was seen by … well, actually, by everybody. But clever and funny nonetheless.
Omnes Omnibus
@Uncle Cosmo: Oh, I got it. I just couldn’t help fucking with you.
Anotherlurker
@Peale: Thank you for saying what I wanted to say. Ed Schultz had a lot to do with the cancer that is “both sides do it” and “Single payer or else” memes. He also was very nasty about President Obama being weak and giving away the store to republicans. Purity pony is his middle name.
Sorry he is gone, but I haven’t been a fan of his since 2009.
NotMax
@Uncle Cosmo
Would’ve played better yesterday.
Bjorn on the fourth of July.
:)
Uncle Cosmo
@Jager: Those are beyond the smorgasborder of my knowledge…
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Completely normal and not scary.
Steeplejack
All right, Joy Reid sitting in for Rachel Maddow!
(I’m a little behind on the DVR.)
Mnemosyne
@efgoldman:
The Republican senators from ND and MT just traveled to Moscow on the 4th of July to meet with the Russians.
This is not a coincidence.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
How do you know?
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
There’s been a lot of work going on re the Klang Valley public transport system, which is badly needed because Malaysia’s biggest urban area is choking in car traffic, but when Dr M came back as PM after the election he shelved the MRT Circle Line for economic reasons. The Klang Valley Integrated Transit System isn’t directly related to any of Najib’s 1MDB shenanians, as far as I know.
Chetan Murthy
@Gvg: Everything you say is correct. But there’s another reason companies buy back shares, and from my experience it’s pretty common: to soak up shares awarded to senior execs as part of their compensation. I worked for Ye Gynormous IBM Company (On the Skids) for 19yr, and saw this happen a *lot* both during and after. they would borrow $$ (at post-2008 rates, it was a steal) and buy back shares. Meanwhile, the company was issuing stock to execs a-go-go.
But you’re right about these raiders.
efgoldman
@Mnemosyne:
Ah his rallying cry is “let’s vote for the traitors”
Does Tester (and Heitkamp) know how to play red-baiting gutter politics?
Jager
@Uncle Cosmo:
Ole and Lena are having a nice diner at the Ardoch Cafe, a lady in the next booth starts choking on her food. Ole leaps up, grabs the woman, stands her up,, lifts her skirt, pulls down her panties and gives her rear end crack a big, wet lick with his tongue. The woman spits out the food caught in her windpipe. She recovers nicely. Ole sits down and Lena asks, “What waass that all about den?”
Ole says, “I yust give her dat Hind Lick Maneuver, works efry damn time den.”
So there you go, then.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Bush loyalists got Poppy’s back!
Ari Fleischer does not approve of President Grabber being rude. Duly noted.
efgoldman
Thread getting a little long in the tooth
eric U.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): The management of companies have become experts in executive compensation. My cousin is a lawyer and MBA, and his last corporate job entailed exactly that, executive compensation. That’s all he did. His company got bought out and he decided to retire early.
Miss Bianca
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: OK, everybody say it with me now: “So uncivil!”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: I don’t mind long in the tooth, but the jokes…
Amir Khalid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Is he still on about Warren’s claim of native ancestry?Talk about flogging a dead horse.
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
Spirits of ammonia for Mr. Fleischer! Stat!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amir Khalid: he loves that one, he clearly thinks it’s one of his best “jokes”
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ari never expected the leopards to eat HIS friends’ faces!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: When you’ve got no new material, you just play the oldies.
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid:
Shenanigans. Error noticed too late.
Steeplejack
@Amir Khalid:
Yes, and of course he referred to her as “Pocahontas.”
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
Of course, Warren was able to provide genealogical information to show that she does have the amount of Cherokee ancestry that she claimed. However, the intricacies of American law that govern American Indians preclude her from legally claiming to be an American Indian. Having the DNA and being a registered member of a tribe are two completely different and mostly unrelated things.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: you’d think the whole birth certificate thing would’ve taught the Beast to stop daring people to prove he’s a silly racist clown.
efgoldman
@Amir Khalid:
Dead horses? He’s still flogging the Central Park kids.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why would you think that?
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He still thinks that Obama’s long-form birth certificate was fake.
And since he’s “right” on a technicality about Warren (she is not legally a member of the Cherokee tribe), he’s never going to fucking shut up about it.
dexwood
@Anotherlurker:
Fuck him. He always followed the money. He fooled people on, dare I say it, both sides. Just another carnival barker.
NotMax
@efgoldman
Flogging eohippus.
Omnes Omnibus
@dexwood: I take it that you weren’t in Madison during the union protests. He did really good things there.
cwmoss
@Roger Moore: All executives of large companies should try out what Scrooge McDuck did and dive into a pool full of coins. It would greatly improve the gene pool.
J R in WV
@Steve in the ATL:
So right off you are assuming that without any unions, we would still have a minimum wage? Isn’t that very — unrealistic? I mean, before unions, we had 12 hour work days, every day, and no vacations!
And people made barely enough to eat … and there was no medical care that actually worked.
Without unions, you wouldn’t be a labor lawyer, you might not even know how to read.
In other words, Fuck You for dissing a worker’s movement that has improved every facet of daily life in America and most of the developed world!
Platonailedit
@lamh36:
The vein popping yeller is dead. Good riddance.
Omnes Omnibus
@Platonailedit: I will copy this here: I take it that you weren’t in Madison during the union protests. He did really good things there.
Ruckus
@Patricia Kayden:
Surely you jest. Most employers, especially most big employers, want to pay the absolute minimum. Many/most would demand that you work 60 hrs or more a week for free if they could get away with it. For many jobs they hire part timers because they don’t have all the same rules. They’d rather hire 2 part timers and fuck with their hours, creating a stimulating workplace. And it’s the reason they want to end SS and Medicare, they pay half of what the government receives, you pay the other half. So that just over 7 1/2% that gets taken out of your check, they match that. They don’t consider that to be your money or part of your wages, IT’S A TAX UPON THEM is their view. Because they don’t give two shits about you, your personal life or that you even have a life when you aren’t at work.
efgoldman
@J R in WV:
Steve would have been a 2%-er regardless.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dexwood: I think he was genuinely squirrelly– I’m thinking of his (IIRC?) Hamster-Inspired “stay home in 2010” thing, and I’m guessing he somehow decided that liberals, or neoliberals, or corporate Dems, or something, were responsible for his losing his MSNBC show and held a grudge. But as Pierce and others have pointed out, he broadcast live from the health fairs that used to be much more widespread before O-Care. Pierce saw him do this when Pierce was volunteering to register the patients who came, which I always remember when Pierce goes a little overboard with his stylings, or his emo
dexwood
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, I wasn’t. Happy to hear that. People change, though. I listened to him a lot for awhile years ago, kinda kept an ear out after, he did become a shill, in my opinion. I think he was a bigger in his own head than he was in reality.
danielx
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How do EMTs treat for pearl-clutching these days, anyway?
NotMax
@J R in WV
Westinghouse was, for the time, almost radically progressive in that area.
Omnes Omnibus
@dexwood: He came and he supported us. He also did stupid shit. He is not a just “Fuck him,” person.
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
I’ve noticed that in the high-tech software industry, people building recruiting ads are totally ignorant of the skills and events in development tools in the industry. I have seen ads seeking 2-3 years experience in development tools that haven’t been in existence for more than 18 months, and were rarely seen at that point.
In what universe does that requirement make any sense? it’s FQing impossible for any applicants who weren’t working on the development team for the tool to fulfill the requirement, and those people aren’t looking for jobs in the first place. They get calls from other companies trying to hire them away from their employer.
Grrr.
Ruckus
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
What they don’t pay employees they put in their pockets.
Here’s how it works.
Let’s say you make $20/hr. They figure something like $60-100/hr for whatever it is that they sell, no matter it they produce it or just sell it or sell and install. A service company, like a plumber will do the same, how much labor can they sell, how many hours can they sell per day. The more they can get and the less they can spend makes them more money. And a manager can only manage so many people and generally a manager doesn’t actually produce stuff it that’s what the company does.
When I owned a company that produced a product, be it a production part or a one off piece of tooling, it is how much can you do per hour, how long does it take to produce how many, how much do I need to charge to make a profit. And how much profit is enough. Now if you are a large fish in the market, you get to set pricing. The less labor costs you, in relation to how much you can charge is what keeps you going. Or not. Now if you cut corners and cut costs without cutting output, you make more. If you don’t give a shit about ethics, you can do that till you get caught or enough people catch on and stop purchasing whatever it is that you are selling. BTW you can sell labor, you can sell products, you can sell time. But everything is labor. Someone’s sweat. Everything else is details.
The Moar You Know
Is he still on about Warren’s claim of native ancestry?Talk about flogging a dead horse
@Amir Khalid: this is just as much of an article of faith amongst the GOP (and quite a few non Republicans who really should know better, but they are fucking “deplorable” as some unacceptably smart person said once) as the Clinton kill list, Obama’s Super Seekrit Muslim affiliation, and George Soros’ absolute control over everything liberal in the world. These people absolutely believe all of this stupid shit plus a lot more that makes me sick to even consider, and won’t/can’t be argued out of it.
No One You Know
@Teddys Person: We have nothing left to lose!
Steeplejack
LOL. Ari Melber is sitting in for Lawrence O’Donnell, and he has copped a shave since he did his own show at 6:00. He was sporting thick, dark stubble then. Word must have come down from upstairs.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
It seems to me that, for a white Midwesterner like Elizabeth Warren, some native ancestry wouldn’t even be unusual. I wonder if his attempts to taunt her about it are personally offensive to Americans from that region.
@J R in WV:
I don’t read Steve in the ATL’s comment as a diss on unionism. I think he is merely evaluating the cost:benefit ratio of Goku’s union membership, and reckons that our young friend is at best just breaking even. Unions in America do need to be doing better for their members, beyond any doubt, and have been beset by generations of hostile lawmakers and regulators. I don’t think Steve disputes that, and indeed he may be alluding to it.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Has MSNBC had much to say about Ed Shultz?
dexwood
@Omnes Omnibus:
OK, I get your point. I think he’s not worth arguing about. You liked him or you didn’t. He’s not a fuck him guy to you, he is to me.
Elizabelle
@Peale: I feel the same way re Shultz. No coming back from that. Stoo-pid.
B.B.A.
@Amir Khalid: Any insult against Warren will stick for Il Douche’s base. She’s a liberal professor who thinks she’s so much better than them, not to mention a c***.
Even “respectable” conservatives are completely certain that affirmative action just means unqualified minorities get free tickets to the big time, and obviously Harvard only hired Warren because she checked the “Native American” box on a form.
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
A couple of the shows have done a little tip o’ the hat at the end of their hour. Nothing elaborate.
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: RT, on the other hand…
Steve in the ATL
@J R in WV: fuck you and your poor reading comprehension. I didn’t say any of what you accuse me of saying. And I have praised and defended unions here many times.
And if I weren’t a labor lawyer I’d be an employment lawyer. As a matter of fact, I already do both.
And a dollar an hour raise over three years in an industry that’s not dying is a shitty raise, so fuck you for thinking that our workers deserve such paltry pay.
Ohio Mom
@Gvg: One of the big mattress companies, I forget which ones — the NYT had an article on this many years ago.
Just googled, it was Simmons in 2009. They had seven private equity owners in less than twenty years. Each one a greater fool than the other I guess.
There is a finite number of mattresses that can be sold in any given year, which means there is only so much profit to be had, and that makes getting out of that level of leveraged debt impossible.
So wasteful.
Steve in the ATL
@Amir Khalid: thank you—I even stated expressly that it was not a diss on unionism in general.
Now treat yourself to another guitar!
Ohio Mom
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Why are you always arguing with people on line? Aren’t you still in school, don’t you have homework to do? Or girls (or boys, or other) to chase?
Gin & Tonic
@Ohio Mom:
Well, to be fully accurate, there’s a finite number of anything that can be sold in any given year.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
You could be right about Steve in ATL… he doesn’t seem to be a management shill. I’m just on edge right now, between management and the government and the politics.
Hey, Steve in the ATL: Sorry for jumping on you that way. It’s just the July weather and the 21st century politics getting to me bad.
Steve in the ATL
@J R in WV: no worries! I’m on edge too. Can’t even see headlines about the Supreme Court without getting dark and twisty. These are dangerous times for our country.
J R in WV
@Steve in the ATL:
Hey, I’m sorry I jumped on you! We’re a union family, and unions would do a lot more for the members if it wasn’t for the rules being slanted against them. Not to mention the politics, media, etc. Wife was an elected officer, days after Reagan took office a newly appointed DOL official called to tell wife that if new official could find a violation in the paperwork, she (official) would take everything we owned, including the home.
So tetchey about it. Again, I apologize for jumping on you, and inferring things you didn’t intend to say!
Steeplejack
@Gin & Tonic:
Heh, RT is not in my regular viewing rotation. I watch MSNBC semi-reluctantly only to plumb the zeitgeist of the Trump era.
Ohio Mom
@J R in WV: Ohio Dad could have written that comment, particularly the part about requiring more years of experience with a computer language than the language has existed for. He would agree that the main problem is HR people with no tech background.
gorram
@Beezus: Speaking as someone who moved there (East Bay admittedly), it’s because there were literally no jobs in rural/suburban areas where I came from.
If you’re hyper-specialized and overqualified you can get minimum wage work most places, but there’s at least some kind of decently paying jobs in the area that you can wait to nab, while living with your roommates and working for minimum wage or close to it. It took me three years with a BA and good references, less if you have an MA/PhD, more if you only have a high school diploma if it’s possible at all.
afanasia
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I work part-time at my local library in public service and running our youth programs for $16/hr, a job, if not a wage, suited to my expensive education. I subsidize this job by cleaning houses part time – I’m about to raise my price to $25 an hour. I’m good at it, but I’m essentially charging a premium for the fact that I have no arrest record or history of substance abuse. Yes, something is wrong.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
I have Native American ancestry but my ancestor chose not to register with the tribe and instead worked building railroads.
IIRC Warren claimed Native American ancestry for the purpose of advising students. She was already a full professor at Harvard Law. In other words she did not make the claim in order to access affirmative action which is what the racists think she did.