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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Russiagate Open Thread: Not Helping, Rudy!

Russiagate Open Thread: Not Helping, Rudy!

by Anne Laurie|  July 8, 201810:35 pm| 139 Comments

This post is in: Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel, Assholes, Let A Thousand Watergates Bloom

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Kinsley gaffe – save this one for later https://t.co/7Wet8xTBea

— Brendan Nyhan (@BrendanNyhan) July 8, 2018

Trump’s lawyers are quietly more combative, too, contesting a request from the special counsel to interview John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff. ?@nytmike? ?@maggieNYT? https://t.co/oyh1YCQHaD

— Adam Goldman (@adamgoldmanNYT) July 7, 2018

… unless your goal is just “seeing Rudy Giuliani sthlurr hith wordths on the teevee thome more.” Or, as a certain Democrat might say, Please proceed, Governor!

President Trump’s lawyers set new conditions on Friday on an interview with the special counsel and said that the chances that the president would be voluntarily questioned were growing increasingly unlikely.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, needs to prove before Mr. Trump would agree to an interview that he has evidence that Mr. Trump committed a crime and that his testimony is essential to completing the investigation, said Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s lead lawyer in the case…

The gambit by Mr. Giuliani was the latest maneuver in an all-out assault by the president and his legal team in recent months to alter public opinion about the inquiry. They have come to believe that, if the Democrats win control of the House in November, the chamber will vote on whether to begin the impeachment process no matter the outcome of Mr. Mueller’s investigation. So they want to sway Americans — and by extension, lawmakers…

Mr. Giuliani has sown doubt and confusion by pushing dubious theories about the case. He has made claims like accusing Mr. Mueller’s office, without evidence, of trying to frame Mr. Trump. Mr. Giuliani has also pushed unfounded theories, like an assertion that the F.B.I. implanted a spy in Mr. Trump’s campaign.

The president and his lawyers have also tried to undermine key witnesses like James B. Comey, the former F.B.I. director fired by Mr. Trump, to force the public to decide whether to believe them or the president. That is a tall task — the president’s penchant for half-truths, exaggerations and outright falsehoods is well established.

But Mr. Trump and his lawyers contend that Mr. Comey damaged his credibility as a witness during his book tour this spring by showing that he played by his own rules when he ran the F.B.I., and that the findings of a recent inspector general report critical of the F.B.I.’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation buttressed their case.

[Thanks again, Honorable Jim!]

Mr. Giuliani views the tactics as an early success. “Right now, public opinion is going in our direction big time,” he said…

Critics see the array of delay tactics as aimed at stalling an investigative report to Congress until after November’s midterm elections. The more time Mr. Trump and his lawyers have to influence Americans’ views of the inquiry, the better their chances to undermine its credibility and pressure lawmakers not to impeach Mr. Trump.

Legal experts are skeptical that the new tactics will be effective. “It’s a gambit because if there’s damaging information that comes out down the line — like primary source documents or testimony — then you’ve spent your capital trying to create a public narrative that is belied by hard evidence,” said Stephen I. Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law and an expert on constitutional law…

I believe the classic formulation runs It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up.

So, a drug cartel boss’s lawyers walk into the FBI & say, you can interview our guy after you show us the evidence you have against him. And even then, we’re going to make sure it’s good enough evidence & that we think you’re objective. https://t.co/sDNDK1zhnU

— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) July 7, 2018

Yeah, this is not how investigations work. https://t.co/ci0cRAj8GP

— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) July 7, 2018

First new comments to the NYT, now a leak to the AP, tomorrow Rudy showing up on two Sunday shows. What explains this sudden new assault on the Mueller probe by Trump? Seems something is coming. https://t.co/Kn1F10HWrm

— Matthew Miller (@matthewamiller) July 7, 2018

If a president sends five Cubans into the DNC Headquarters, that's it. https://t.co/JQ2ihdPPed

— Schooley (@Rschooley) July 8, 2018

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Reader Interactions

139Comments

  1. 1.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    Rudi911 may be an effective shill, for the part of the electorate that supports Weasel Face anyway, But he is a really lousy lawyer.
    Plus it’s hard to mount a defense when you’re trying to keep the special counsel away from your own door.

  2. 2.

    debbie

    July 8, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    Has Nunes reacted to not getting FBI records? He seems surprisingly quiet.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 10:51 pm

    President Trump’s lawyers set new conditions on Friday on an interview with the special counsel

    I know it’s the garbage NYT, but can they really just stop acting like Ghouliani and Trump’s “lawyers” get to “set” any terms or conditions at this point. Stop using the verb and go with “President Trump’s lawyers farted out” or “sharted out” some nonsensical garbage that didn’t even make sense to the 1 year old defending himself in the immigration court in Texas”

  4. 4.

    randy khan

    July 8, 2018 at 10:52 pm

    And Dersh wonders why people are snubbing him.

    Seriously, he has to know that a lot of lawyers are laughing at him and saying “This is what they have on the faculty at Harvard Law School?”

  5. 5.

    feebog

    July 8, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    @efgoldman

    Rudy was not hired for his lawyering skills. He was hired because he has no compunction about lying, obfuscation and misdirection. He is the TV lawyer, nothing more.

  6. 6.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    Watching Barnwood Builders and they are building a structure on a river fronting property in/near New Braunfels, TX. Whoever owns this property has money shooting out of their assholes. Not like a Manhattan penthouse or anything but this is some pricey shit, all the same.

  7. 7.

    Hitlesswonder

    July 8, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    My understanding is that obstruction of Justice requires intent. So Dersh is saying that a president cannot obstruct justice? That’s fascinating. He has to know that’s ridiculous…why is he saying that?

  8. 8.

    geg6

    July 8, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    Heh. Dersh has lost the thread of the law completely. Must have been sent around the bend by being frozen out of Martha’s Vineyard cocktail parties.

  9. 9.

    japa21

    July 8, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    Dershowitz is a dipshitowitz.

  10. 10.

    MomSense

    July 8, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    Tick tock motherfuckers.

  11. 11.

    chris

    July 8, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    Mr. Giuliani views the tactics as an early success. “Right now, public opinion is going in our direction big time,” he said…

    They must be polling the Qanon/GreatAwakening boards and believing the results.

  12. 12.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    @randy khan:

    “This is what they have on the faculty at Harvard Law School?”

    Dersh is an emeritus. He’s been retired from teaching five years. He was once one of the first amendment absolutist good guys, but he was infected with the prion disease when he became a torture apologist for W and Darth. He should have been shunned then, instead of being a designated celebrity commentator .

  13. 13.

    Mike in NC

    July 8, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    What are the odds that when Trump meets Putin in Helsinski he’ll ask for asylum?

  14. 14.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    I got subscribed to a big private list of left-leaning law types on the Book of Faces. It blows up every time The Quisling Brothers (Dershowitz and Giuliani) open their pie-holes. Would be highly amusing, if it weren’t so reminiscent of what happened in Hungary and is happening in Poland.

  15. 15.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @chris: Not much of a fight when Mueller et al is purposefully saying nothing and Ghouliani gets to speak for both sides.

  16. 16.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    I wonder if Trump is paying royalties to Orban for the use of his playbook.

  17. 17.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Ghouliani gets to speak for both sides.

    And out of all the sides of his mouth.

  18. 18.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Mueller gets the last word with 12 people who matter.

  19. 19.

    Viva BrisVegas

    July 8, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    Here I was thinking that in the justice system the prosecution doesn’t prove anything. He/she argues a case in front of a judge and jury and the verdict of that jury is the proof or otherwise of that case.

    Nothing proves anything until a jury decides that it does.

  20. 20.

    dexwood

    July 8, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    Pretty amazing watching Dershowitz and Ghouliani choose to crash and burn their reputations for Traitor Trump. Guess there wasn’t much character there to begin with. They sure have fooled our media for decades. Not hard to do given media complicity in their charade.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 8, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    @efgoldman:

    He should have been shunned then

    I washed my hands of him then. Fuckem.

  22. 22.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    The winning response to Dershowitz:

    As a voter, I can take anything I want into account.

  23. 23.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Mueller gets the last word with 12 people who matter.

    Do you suppose there’s a 21st century Judge Sirica out there who’ll get these cases?

  24. 24.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @burnspbesq: If you really believe that then you are even more stupid than I think you are. Which would be difficult to achieve.

  25. 25.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 8, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @Mike in NC: Don’t we wish

  26. 26.

    hueyplong

    July 8, 2018 at 11:11 pm

    Dershowitz, advisor to Stuart kings.

  27. 27.

    B.B.A.

    July 8, 2018 at 11:12 pm

    Feels like approaching the event horizon. Every week we get closer and closer to the tipping point, but we never quite get there. Dammit, Zeno.

  28. 28.

    Amir Khalid

    July 8, 2018 at 11:13 pm

    Der Müller Gottes mahlt langsam, mahlt aber außerordentlich klein.

  29. 29.

    West of the Rockies

    July 8, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    @dexwood:

    Isn’t Dirty Dershowitz pushing 80? Rudy is 74. This is a last chance in the limelight, a chance to pocket a bit more GOP grifting cash.

  30. 30.

    A Ghost To Most

    July 8, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    As was mentioned earlier, fascism isn’t an ideology so much as a playbook for authoritarians.

  31. 31.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    If you really believe that then you are even more stupid than I think you are.

    Burnsie can be obnoxious concerning a certain university in North Carolina, but there’s no reason to slag him on legal questions. He knows what the fuck he’s talking about.
    But then, you just have to be your disagreeable, disrespectful self, don’t you?

  32. 32.

    Amir Khalid

    July 8, 2018 at 11:17 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    Trump? Never. Paying royalties is for the little people. When you’re the President, you can just take stuff and people will let you.

  33. 33.

    cmorenc

    July 8, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    Last night I watched a 1993 movie “Pelican Brief” based on a John Grisham novel, which seemed at the time to be a ludicrously far-fetched, though entertaining yarn about a venally corrupt president whose administration is in cahoots with a billionaire oil & gas tycoon who plot to steal a pair of US Supreme Court seats, in order to undo protection of a federal wilderness area and wildlife refuge that the incumbent SCOTUS majority are likely to uphold legal protection thereof unless the President can swap out those SCOTUS seats for more compliant justices. It’s utterly astonishing how much of this wildly improbable fictional yard has come true with the Trump Presidency, except in the Pelican Brief the President’s thugs ruthlessly murdered one-by-one not just two incumbent SCOTUS justices, but anyone who came across too much suspicious knowledge about the plot, whereas in today’s real life the Trump Admin’s thugs and henchmen merely character assassinate anyone who might inquire or reveal too much and they simply stole a vacant seat outright. And in Pelican Brief it was a diligent law student (Julia Roberts) and an intrepidly dogged investigative reporter (Denzel Washington) who relentlessly dug into the conspiracy, at increasing risk of being killed, instead of former FBI Director Mueller with subpoena power and a large staff doing the relentless digging and taking constant would-be character assassin crossfire but nevertheless managing to stay alive to dig further.

  34. 34.

    dexwood

    July 8, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    @West of the Rockies:
    Sad. Some guys just never accept their time has come and gone. Ride off into the sunset, ya’ dicks. Enjoy your fucking retirement.

  35. 35.

    West of the Rockies

    July 8, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @B.B.A.:

    Surely some revelation is at hand…

  36. 36.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    When you’re the President, you can just take stuff and people will let you.

    Gives a whole new perspective Droit du seigneur doesn’t it?

  37. 37.

    MagdaInBlack

    July 8, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    @dexwood:
    This is one thing I don’t get. These guys could all be kickin’ back, enjoying their money, playing golf….
    Instead they chose this?

  38. 38.

    lollipopguild

    July 8, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    @dexwood: Everything trump touches dies.

  39. 39.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:25 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    Surely some revelation is at hand…

    Wouldn’t have expected anything this past week. EVERYBODY clears out of DC, including secretive prosecutor shops and courts.

  40. 40.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Fuck off, clown.

  41. 41.

    Cookie monster

    July 8, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    Isn’t the precedent already set with the Clenis’ deposition?

  42. 42.

    hellslittlestangel

    July 8, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    Dershowitz: “You cannot question a president’s motives when the president acts. If a president pardons, that’s it. If a president fires, that’s it. You can’t go beyond an act and get into his motive or into his intent.”

    No, stupid, we’re talking about an American president, not Putin.

  43. 43.

    B.B.A.

    July 8, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @lollipopguild: New theory: Trump is a vampire, sucking the lifeforce out of all he touches. He will live as long as there’s a grift to run. And this is America, baby.

  44. 44.

    Kelly

    July 8, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @Cookie monster: That’s a Democrat president precedent.

  45. 45.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 11:29 pm

    @burnspbesq: Twelve men, good and true, are not going to be sitting in judgement of Trump. That’s foolish to think that.

  46. 46.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:30 pm

    @Cookie monster:

    Isn’t the precedent already set with the Clenis’ deposition?

    That was a civil suit. Mueller may be chasing Weasel Face over criminal matters. His lawyers will claim the precedent doesn’t apply. May or may not be true.

  47. 47.

    Kelly

    July 8, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    @hellslittlestangel:No it’s you can’t question the motives of a Republican president.

  48. 48.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:33 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Twelve men, good and true, are not going to be sitting in judgement of Trump.

    Not while he’s “president”, in a federal criminal trial. But after, if he hasn’t stroked out?

  49. 49.

    burnspbesq

    July 8, 2018 at 11:33 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Which part is factually incorrect? Do Federal criminal juries not consist of 12 members? Or does the prosecution not go last in closing statements?

    If you chose to read something more into that statement than it actually contained, that’s your problem not mine.

    You’re just like Trump: everything is a dick-measuring contest, and you can’t bear to lose.

  50. 50.

    BruceFromOhio

    July 8, 2018 at 11:36 pm

    Gaia slay me where I sit, I surface for a sniff of the atmosphere, and the dumpster fires are still burning brightly, smoky and stinking to fucking high heaven. How any of these two-bit ratfuck soulless criminals traverse ordinary life without getting run over in the street, or soiled repeatedly with rotted fruit thrown by passersby, or just struck repeatedly by lightning where they fucking stand is a continuing mystery.

  51. 51.

    Corner Stone

    July 8, 2018 at 11:36 pm

    @burnspbesq: How do you propose to get Trump into a Federal court for criminal trial?

  52. 52.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:37 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Which part is factually incorrect?

    Based on subsequent comments, I’d guess CS thinks Weasel Face will never get in front of a federal criminal jury. Which given delaying tactics, health, and the pardon power, may be right.
    I’m much better at predicting the past.

    ETA: After all, Tricksie never did. (Fuck you, Gerry Ford)

  53. 53.

    Gvg

    July 8, 2018 at 11:38 pm

    @hellslittlestangel: it struck me as astonishingly stupid. Everybody criticizes who ever is President. I think even George Washington tho I admit that my knowledge is non specific. I know Adams and Jefferson got criticized. It scares me how bad our education system looks.
    Up there with Dinesh’s insistence American traditionally supported colonial powers and not rebels.

  54. 54.

    B.B.A.

    July 8, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @burnspbesq: Provided he doesn’t die in office, take asylum in Russia, or plead incompetence to stand trial on account of advanced dementia, there’s a chance that Trump will face a criminal jury. But I don’t see it happening while he’s in office. That’d be an acute constitutional crisis, as opposed to the chronic one that this entire administration has been.

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @Gvg:

    It scares me how bad our education system looks.

    Not “looks”. IS.
    The ignorance of basic facts in the white populace is beyond frightening.

  56. 56.

    Cookie monster

    July 8, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @efgoldman: at the time the allegations were lying under oath and obstruction of justice – I am very much not a lawyer, so I may be utterly wrong here, but that sounds like criminal law.

  57. 57.

    joel hanes

    July 8, 2018 at 11:43 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    certainly some revelation is at hand

    the rough beast was born as putative president some eighteen months ago

    things fell apart
    the center did not hold

    the worst were and are full of passionate intensity

    —-
    at times like this (not that there have been any in my lifetime)
    I find it helps to read about other dark timelines:

    _A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year_ Defoe
    _A_Distant_Mirror_, Tuchman
    _The_Doomsday_Book_ Willis

  58. 58.

    Duane

    July 8, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @efgoldman: Saw the movie “Twelve Angry Men” yesterday. The juror’s rant about the defendant and those people was the same horeshit we’re hearing now.

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 8, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @B.B.A.: If he can’t be indicted and tried while he is in office, the statute of limitations would properly be tolled while he is in office. Indictment following his term would be perfectly reasonable.

  60. 60.

    Steeplejack

    July 8, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    Mr. Giuliani views the tactics as an early success. “Right now, public opinion is going in our direction big time.”

    Maybe it’s just me, but when I hear a politician use “big time” in any context at all it sets off 100-decibel alarms of “lying,” “factually incorrect” or “complete bullshit.”

    ETA: Now, “bigly”—that’s a completely different story.

  61. 61.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    @Cookie monster:

    at the time the allegations were lying under oath and obstruction of justice

    True, but the original lawsuit by Paula Jones was civil, and that’s the basis for the SCOTUS decision against Clinton. The criminal charges were dreamed up by rape apologist Ken Starr and the Newtniks to justify impeachment.

  62. 62.

    Mike J

    July 8, 2018 at 11:48 pm

    So wow, the Brexitary quit.

  63. 63.

    SFAW

    July 8, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @BruceFromOhio:

    How any of these two-bit ratfuck soulless criminals traverse ordinary life without getting run over in the street, or soiled repeatedly with rotted fruit thrown by passersby, or just struck repeatedly by lightning where they fucking stand is a continuing mystery.

    Well, according to Daeshowitz, being shunned on Mahtha’s Vinyahd is the moral equivalent (or something) of being crucified (or at least slapped with a fish). So there’s that.

  64. 64.

    efgoldman

    July 8, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @Mike J:

    the Brexitary quit.

    May is smarter than Weasel Face (but then, so is a bale of hay) but she’s no better at governing thru a crisis.

  65. 65.

    Cookie monster

    July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @efgoldman: I guess someone need to file a civil suit then…

  66. 66.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    If you’re so fucking smart, what would you do? And what evidence is there to Ghoulini’s blatherings about public opinion? If Trump fires Mueller the public won’t stand for it. If you don’t believe that then you’re even bigger fool then I thought you were. Ass.

  67. 67.

    Steeplejack

    July 8, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @japa21:

    Nice. Filed for future reference.

  68. 68.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 8, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    1933. I have posted this before. I think it captures something.

  69. 69.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 8, 2018 at 11:58 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    How the hell do you know?

  70. 70.

    Cookie monster

    July 8, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    @Mike J: he wanted to cut all ties. May has proposed a “worse than actual membership but might not *completely* destroy the economy” plan. Not much choice…

  71. 71.

    chris

    July 9, 2018 at 12:00 am

    Chait catches up to Sarah Kendzior and others with a long piece that begins by suggesting that the shitgibbon became a Russian asset in 1987 after his first visit to Moscow.
    Worth a read IMHO.

    The safest assumption is that it’s entirely coincidental that Trump launched a national campaign, with himself as spokesman, built around themes that dovetailed closely with Soviet foreign-policy goals shortly after his [1987] Moscow stay. Indeed, it seems slightly insane to contemplate the possibility that a secret relationship between Trump and Russia dates back this far. But it can’t be dismissed completely. How do you even think about the small but real chance — 10 percent? 20 percent? — that the president of the United States has been covertly influenced or personally compromised by a hostile foreign power for decades?

    Gonna pull the covers over my head now. G’night all.

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    July 9, 2018 at 12:00 am

    Dershowitz is protecting the people who are protecting him. That’s how to understand his actions.

    @MomSense: Yes…..

  73. 73.

    hellslittlestangel

    July 9, 2018 at 12:01 am

    @B.B.A.: I hear Kim Philby’s old house is on the market.

  74. 74.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 12:02 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    If Trump fires Mueller the public won’t stand for it.

    Assumes power of public opinion not in evidences.
    Fascists don’t care about your demonstrations and petitions nor your ethics and norms, nor even about the law; they care about power.

    The public is not going to storm the Capitol. Nor the White House.
    Expressions of helpless rage will be tolerated so long as they don’t seriously hinder the looting and grift.

  75. 75.

    Steeplejack

    July 9, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Because it’s about power, about being one of the guys in the room. Money is just how they keep score (after a certain level).

  76. 76.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:06 am

    The public is not going to storm the Capitol. Nor the White House.

    Everything seems impossible. Until it’s not.

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 9, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @joel hanes: Thanks for your help. //

  78. 78.

    Corner Stone

    July 9, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @Steeplejack: Dersh is probably legit rich, to some degree. But I sometimes wonder if all the naughty things Ghouliani has done over the years was just more of the same kind of money laundering Manafort did. And Rudy has almost nothing left in the kipper.

  79. 79.

    West of the Rockies

    July 9, 2018 at 12:08 am

    @joel hanes:

    The center (of the GOP) is definitely extinct these days. It is DJT’s party, lock, stock and barrel.

    Yay, Yeats, btw.

  80. 80.

    Roger Moore

    July 9, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @Gvg:

    Everybody criticizes who ever is President. I think even George Washington tho I admit that my knowledge is non specific.

    He was absolutely criticized. Though he liked to act as if he was above party, he was recognized as the de facto head of the Federalists, and the anti-Federalists/Republicans certainly treated him that way. Perhaps the most famous attack on Washington was from none other than Thomas Paine, who said:

    And as to you, Sir, treacherous in private friendship (for so you have been to me, and that in the day of danger) and a hypocrite in public life, the world will be puzzled to decide whether you are an apostate or an impostor; whether you have abandoned good principles, or whether you ever had any.

  81. 81.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Really. I don’t believe we’re that far gone yet.

  82. 82.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 9, 2018 at 12:13 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Ever seen sarc marks?

  83. 83.

    Yarrow

    July 9, 2018 at 12:14 am

    In good news, canvassers were out today in my area for the Dem candidate for a red-to-blue seat. Everyone was really excited to see the canvassers and one neighbor donated and got a yard sign. I was glad to see they were out in July. Getting likely voters locked down.

  84. 84.

    smike

    July 9, 2018 at 12:14 am

    @Corner Stone: I was born in that town (many, many years ago.) It was a spot in the road between Austin and San Antonio back then, but the infusion of population and money has really changed things. Still some beautiful spots there, though.

  85. 85.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 12:15 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ll be at the demonstrations, though not in DC.
    This year I’m giving 20% of my income to Democratic politicians.

    But rose-colored glasses aren’t my style. I’ve only found them helpful in a whiteout while skiing, and then, only because they make it easier to see the hazards.

  86. 86.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:15 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Yes. You were sarcastic. And I was agreeing with your true meaning; you didn’t think joel was being helpful and I agreed with you.

  87. 87.

    Nettoyeur

    July 9, 2018 at 12:18 am

    You gotta wonder what Trump or Putin or somebody has on Dershowitz (and a whole slew of GOP invertebrates) that prompts idiotic statements that amount to “President Trump can do anything he wants.” The Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton and G. W. Bush (torture) legal and impeachment wrangling established that the President of the US is not above the law. You can argue whether indictment can precede impeachment, maybe, but not that the President can do anything he wants. As for pardons, well, it has been established in common law for centuries that no one can judge him/her self in a legal proceeding. Interestingly, a key factor in the American Revolution was the tyrannical acts of King George III, who suffered from periodic bouts of insanity that became permanent some years after the Revolution. A Regent was named to exercise royal powers.

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 9, 2018 at 12:20 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: You were wrong.

  89. 89.

    jl

    July 9, 2018 at 12:22 am

    @chris:Thanks for interesting link. But, it is also true that Trump has been spouting the same line on foreign policy since long before 1987. You can see him spouting his cash and carry swindler-to-the-bone routine on foreign trade and national security back into his early thirties. NATO was mooching off us, and we should turn it into a protection racket, all the countries have cheated and robbed us blind with unfair trade deals, if only America’s will and power were unleashed the bucks would come flowing in after they all bowed to our might, etc. If he became a Russian asset for those views, Trump was taking money for what he’d do generally anyway.

    But if the Chait theory is true, then Trump will also do things specifically on Putin’s and oligarchs’ orders, which is scary.

  90. 90.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:25 am

    @joel hanes:

    But rose-colored glasses aren’t my style.

    I don’t like your implication. I’m not saying things will turn out all right if we just clap our hands loud enough. We’re going to have to fight these people to the bitter end. Hopefully the fighting will only be needed to be done at the ballot box. Right now, we have the wind at our backs. The current political landscape isn’t sustainable and people are getting tired of GOP rule. Let’s work towards destroying them, one election at a time.

  91. 91.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:26 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Then what did you mean?

  92. 92.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 9, 2018 at 12:26 am

    @Nettoyeur: You gotta wonder what Trump or Putin or somebody has on Dershowitz

    Google “Dershowitz Obama”, and add some pretty banal right wing politics to the fact that Dersh has apparently become crazier and angrier more desperate for attention with age. Giuliani (while also angry and spiteful and desperate for media attention) I suspect has more to fear from revelations about Russian money floating around New York even if it’s not directly related to the trump campaign. Between Meuller and his angry estranged wife, I’ll be surprised if Rudi isn’t at least extremely embarrassed about his post-mayoral career over the next six months.

  93. 93.

    B.B.A.

    July 9, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @Nettoyeur: What Trump has on Dershowitz is the Jerusalem Embassy. For some Jews of a certain age, fulfilling such a long-term Zionist goal is such a blessing that they’re willing to forgive just about anything from the man who made it possible.

    I’m a Jew under that certain age, and to me fascism isn’t any more palatable if it’s wrapped in the tallit and carrying the menorah.

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 9, 2018 at 12:30 am

    @B.B.A.: Then do something.

  95. 95.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Because I’m honestly confused

  96. 96.

    Corner Stone

    July 9, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @smike: Gorgeous area. I am all over that part of TX several times a year. But the amount of property inflation does kind of sting. Oh to only have two nickels to rub together 20 or so years ago…

  97. 97.

    Steeplejack

    July 9, 2018 at 12:34 am

    @Corner Stone:

    Well, Rudy’s got at least one or two alimony payments, right? Maybe another one soon, based on recent news reports.

  98. 98.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 12:37 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    The specific comment to which I replied had to do with the people not standing for it if Trump fires Mueller.
    Unless the House chooses to do something, the people are without recourse until the election.
    And the House will not choose to do anything about Trump unless it’s held by the Democratic Party.
    Protests serve to let us see our own numbers and bind us together, and to strengthen our resolve, but they won’t directly contribute to consequences for Trump. As you said, only votes can do that, and I’m not sanguine that elections will be fairly held, nor that the votes will be fairly counted. The Republican capacity for self-serving immorality has grown steadily all through my adult life; they are now close to full-on fascism, and the history of such movements, and how they treat their opposition, is not particularly encouraging.

    We have to try.
    But voting is our only weapon. Mueller isn’t going to save us.

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    July 9, 2018 at 12:41 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    WTF. Why do you think he’s not? (From your exhortatory tone.)

  100. 100.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @joel hanes:
    There’s more of us than there are of them. They will only truly win if we allow them to. If it comes down to shooting then that’s what will have to happen. Let’s increase our margins so fraud will be a lot more difficult to carry out.

  101. 101.

    Corner Stone

    July 9, 2018 at 12:45 am

    I exhort you to drop your cocks and grab your socks. Listen to my exhortation or pay the price. You have been exhorted to pay heed to my command. Do not make me become exhortatory again this fine morning.

  102. 102.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 12:49 am

    Re: storming the Capitol

    For almost twenty years now, Americans have accepted that protestors may be penned in “free speech zones” far from the persons and events they hope to influence. Every year those zones become a bit more like cages, and every year we’ve become a bit more docile about it.

    That, and the acceptance of civil forfeiture, and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, and the acceptance of the coup in 2000, and DeLay’s renegade redistricting, and the unbelievably high-handed tactics of the Rs in Wisconsin at the outset of Walker’s reign, etc. have disabused me of many of the positive opinions I once held about ordinary Americans.

    People who are content to be penned are not going to storm the Capitol.

  103. 103.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 12:53 am

    @joel hanes:
    I think with the recent public confrontations that’s at least starting to somewhat change. People are becoming outraged and angry at GOP minority rule. Youth gun rights protestors couldn’t even get more than a few dozen to show up the other day.

  104. 104.

    B.B.A.

    July 9, 2018 at 1:00 am

    @Steeplejack: no, Omnes is right, I am a lazy piece of shit.

  105. 105.

    Steeplejack

    July 9, 2018 at 1:02 am

    @Corner Stone:

    Sorry I triggered your Word-a-Day calendar syndrome.

  106. 106.

    LosGatosCA

    July 9, 2018 at 1:04 am

    @feebog:

    He’s the 100 pounds of shit meant to keep the flies off the 50 pounds of shit

  107. 107.

    Doug R

    July 9, 2018 at 1:07 am

    @joel hanes:

    The public is not going to storm the Capitol. Nor the White House.

    I beg to differ. This public shunning is just the start.

  108. 108.

    Lymie

    July 9, 2018 at 1:11 am

    I think it is time to start calling out ICE agents who are implementing the policies we hate and the delegates to WHO: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breastfeeding-ecuador-trump.html

  109. 109.

    efgoldman

    July 9, 2018 at 1:14 am

    @Doug R:

    This public shunning is just the start.

    Baby get you up?
    They’re not the same thing; one is a (public) action by a small group of people, often to get publicity; the other is a demonstration, like the women’s march, to show that huge numbers of people wish to influence public policy, and to persuade other, like minded individuals
    Was this coherent? It’s late and I’m fading

  110. 110.

    Steeplejack

    July 9, 2018 at 1:21 am

    @efgoldman:

    I don’t think Doug R is front-pager Doug.

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 9, 2018 at 1:25 am

    From @ davidfrum
    Dinesh D’Souza favorably retweeting Glenn Greenwald accusing MSNBC of McCarthyism for its Trump-Russia coverage is a moment of astronomical alignment perfection.

    me nodding approvingly at Axis of Evil Frum as he mocks Dinesh D’Soua retweeting Glenn Greenwald about McCarthySNBC et cetera et cetera trump era

  112. 112.

    SFAW

    July 9, 2018 at 1:27 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    1933. I have posted this before. I think it captures something.

    Haven’t heard Turner before, reminds me a little of Billy Bragg.

  113. 113.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 1:28 am

    @efgoldman:
    I think his point is that the public shunning is the beginning of the end to the false civility that the MSM and conservatives have tried to force on everybody else for decades. The current admin is pushing the boundaries of norms too far and wider society is starting to react. Basically, more and more people are beginning to wake up to what the GOP have both become and have always in fact been; a white supremacist party that has only serves the very wealthy and its interests.

  114. 114.

    Redshift

    July 9, 2018 at 1:31 am

    @B.B.A.: However, it’s important to remember that the rest of the crime family aren’t protected from prosecution. Trump can only be removed via impeachment, but if the kids and scumbags he surrounds himself with stay going down, being in office may become a lot less pleasant.

  115. 115.

    SFAW

    July 9, 2018 at 1:31 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The only thing I want to read about D’Douchea is that his Gesicht got backpfeifened. A shitload. Preferably with brass knucks. That lying, weaselly, traitorous fuck.

  116. 116.

    NotMax

    July 9, 2018 at 1:36 am

    @Redshift

    Haven’t heard more than maybe a faint echo of a boo about Jared for weeks and weeks now.

    While it is worrisome to contemplate what machinations he may be conniving, one also has to keep in mind that he’s such a putz that it is (probably) woven much more of image than of substance. Doesn’t mean he’s harmless and ought to continue operating out of sight, regardless.

  117. 117.

    efgoldman

    July 9, 2018 at 1:37 am

    @SFAW:

    The only thing I want to read about D’Douchea is that his Gesicht got backpfeifened.

    Was he born in this country? Isn’t his hue a little dusky?
    Deport him

    @NotMax:

    one also has to keep in mind that he’s such a putz that it is (probably) woven much more of image than of substance.

    His lawyers have probably told him to keep a low, low profile and hope Mueller doesn’t notice.

  118. 118.

    NotMax

    July 9, 2018 at 1:39 am

    @efgoldman

    Nobody will accept him.

    :)

    BTW, stitches coming out soon?

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 9, 2018 at 1:40 am

    @NotMax: damning with faint praise, but he’s smarter than his BIL, and smart enough to listen to his high priced lawyer (Abbe Lowell, I think?). There’s been some gossip that Jared is the source of the rumors that make Donnie Jr look bad, and I want to believe. I think neither of them have been interviewed by Meuller yet, or we haven’t heard. IANAL but the people who play them on TV say those interviews will be a sign that Meuller is tying up looser ends

  120. 120.

    efgoldman

    July 9, 2018 at 1:43 am

    @NotMax:

    stitches coming out soon?

    Dunno. Seeing surgeon on Wednesday.
    I’m thinking not.

  121. 121.

    NotMax

    July 9, 2018 at 1:45 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    smarter than his BIL

    Had I one, my pet rock would be smarter than Junior.

  122. 122.

    NotMax

    July 9, 2018 at 1:47 am

    @efgoldman

    Fingers crossed.

    (Makes typing a bitch, however.)

  123. 123.

    Brachiator

    July 9, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @Redshift:

    However, it’s important to remember that the rest of the crime family aren’t protected from prosecution.

    Pardon?

  124. 124.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 9, 2018 at 2:02 am

    @Brachiator:
    Yeah, but how would that look? Daddy protecting his kids from the consequences of their actions. Besides, I think Trump would be more than willing to let his children out to dry if he thought that would save himself.

  125. 125.

    piratedan

    July 9, 2018 at 2:03 am

    is still waiting for the dramatic music to kick in as our hero brings the treasonous crime syndicate down and possibly bl;ows up a building and maybe offs a few nefarious minions….. you mean this ISN’T a movie?

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    July 9, 2018 at 2:16 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Yeah, but how would that look? Daddy protecting his kids from the consequences of their actions. Besides, I think Trump would be more than willing to let his children out to dry if he thought that would save himself.

    Trump doesn’t believe in consequences. I think he would do anything to protect the Trump brand, which includes his woeful spawn.

    And while he might sacrifice the boys, I think he would do anything for Ivanka.

    That said, I would love to see someone try to take down his kids and make him have to react.

  127. 127.

    NotMax

    July 9, 2018 at 2:18 am

    @piratedan

    Meanwhile, Dolt 45 issues orders that every government warehouse be scoured from top to bottom until the Ark of the Covenant is found.

    “I saw it put into storage with my own eyes. Find it!”

    ;)

  128. 128.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 2:56 am

    @Doug R:

    I truly hope you are correct.

    I would be delighted to be proved wrong in my fatalism.

  129. 129.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 3:21 am

    you mean this ISN’T a movie?

    Prezactly.

    Somebody has to do something, and it’s just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    — Jerry

    Neither The Lone Ranger nor Superman nor even The Dread Pirate Roberts seem to be showing up when needed, even though truth, justice, and The American Way are definitely on the line, along with the fate of innumerable princesses.

  130. 130.

    sukabi

    July 9, 2018 at 3:35 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: we’d know 5 minutes after Mueller interviewed Dumbfuck Jr. because he’d tweet about it and probably post a transcript, just like he did with the emails about the trump tower meeting with the Russians.

  131. 131.

    Gelfling 545

    July 9, 2018 at 8:32 am

    @Gvg: You can’t educate the unwilling. Schools is not a filling station.

  132. 132.

    jonas

    July 9, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @feebog: Exactly. He’s not making legal arguments. He’s doing PR so when Mueller’s probe does present evidence of massive crimes and corruption, Fox News viewers feel safe brushing it off as “fake news”.

  133. 133.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 9, 2018 at 9:32 am

    @NotMax: “Sir, you fired all the top men.”

  134. 134.

    Uncle Cosmo

    July 9, 2018 at 10:27 am

    @japa21: Somewhere there is a vintage Caddy with a capacious trunk just aching to convey the bound&gagged meatsacks of Derpowitz & “America’s Goombah” to where they can finally perform a constructive service to society – by recycling their CHON & trace elements into creatures that would make more productive use of them. (Anything at or above the evolutionary ladder-rung of pond scum would qualify.)

    @Jim, Foolish Misspeller: The man’s name is Mueller. Could you kindly be bothered to spell it correctly at least once in awhile?

  135. 135.

    afanasia

    July 9, 2018 at 10:34 am

    @joel hanes: Am reading A Distant Mirror, have Journal of the Plague Year on the table next to my bed, had forgotten about The Doomsday Book, but loved it. Any other recommendations welcome :)

  136. 136.

    joel hanes

    July 9, 2018 at 11:34 am

    @afanasia:

    _Hunger_, Hamsun
    _We_Die_Alone_, Howarth
    The Bounty Trilogy, Hall and Nordhoff
    _Great_Heart_, Rugge
    _The_Worst_Journey_In_The_World_, Cherry-Garrard
    _The_Long_Walk_, Rawicz

  137. 137.

    the Conster

    July 9, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    @chris:

    How does Tad Devine running the Sanders campaign never get mentioned? It’s like there’s an invisibility cloak over him. This article mentions Manafort working to elect Putin’s candidate in Ukraine, and then here. DEVINE DID THE SAME THING – both men worked for Putin, then came back here and the next thing that happened is Devine talks Bernie into running as a Dem, and Manafort runs Trump’s campaign – both men ran against the Dem party using the same tactics and playbook, both campaigns used Russian troll farms, and Sanders knew what Devine did in Ukraine, knew his campaign was being helped by the Russians and never said anything.

  138. 138.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 9, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    @the Conster: Yeah, I don’t know how that dog’s not barking. Especially since, if I remember my google search of a year or so ago correctly, Devine’s most prominent pre-Sanders candidate was well-known anti-Wall St populist John Corzine.

  139. 139.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 9, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: um… okay.

    Thank you for taking time out from straightening the antimacassars in your parlor to share that important observation. If I might offer some advice in turn: When it’s time for your next blue pill, take it with prune juice.

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