Well today was something…
And I know, from reading comments in the various threads today, let alone any other day, that everyone’s angry, a lot of folks are afraid, some are overwhelmed, and some are a combination of all three. But there are still things we can all do. The first is to not let it all overwhelm us. I know that’s easy for me to say, especially as I’m good at compartmenting things, but it is important. Being angry and afraid is normal and understandable, but we’ve all got to channel it, rather than let it overwhelm us. For those of you who have been fortunate enough to not have to live and/or work (including deploy to) states that aren’t liberal democracies, one of the way that the people in those states and societies are controlled is that the people running the state overwhelm them. As a result every day becomes an exercise in just getting through the day. In getting home to one’s family. In just getting to the next day. Get angry, be afraid, but don’t let either or both destroy your ability to act. Take time off, take a break, but don’t let this break you!
And to do that we all need constructive things to do and to focus on, which brings me to the road ahead, to what we all can do. The first thing to focus on, of course, is the midterm elections in November. Double check your own registrations. Get everyone you know to register to vote and then get them to get everyone they know to register to vote. Then make sure to vote, to get everyone you know to vote, and to get everyone they know to vote. And they need to vote for Democrats.
I’d like to say that we have two functional, responsible political parties right now, but that would be a lie. Here’s some evidence from pp 5 and 6 of the DOJ indictment of Maria Butina (emphasis mine):
The first line of the proposal reads, “Project Description ‘Diplomacy.'” It goes on to state that a major U.S. political party [hereinafter “POLITICAL PARTY 1”], would likely obtain control over the U.S. government after the 2016 elections; that POLITICAL PARTY 1 is “traditionally associated with negative and aggressive foreign policy, particularly with regards to Russia.However, now with the right to negotiate seems best to build konstruktivnyh [sic] relations;” and that the [c]entral place and influence in the [POLITICAL PARTY 1] plays the [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION]. The [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION] [is] the largest sponsor of the elections to the US congress, as well as a sponsor of The CPAC conference and other events.”
POLITICAL PARTY 1 is the Republican Party. The indictment states that Butina, a 29 year old Russian operative, was passing this proposal along to a US national from the Russians that assessed, ahead of the elections in 2016, that the Republican Party “would likely obtain control over the US government after the 2016 elections”. This was the Russian assessment! The indictment shows that the Russians had recognized where the Republican Party was going and had worked out how to influence it and leverage it in the interests of Russia, hence the proposal. So all of the registering to vote and the voting – for Federal office, for state office, and for local offices – has to be for Democrats. The only way to create a check on the President is to elect Democratic majorities in the House of Representatives and in the Senate, as well as electing as many Democratic state governors and Democratic majority legislatures as possible.
Because of the work I do, and despite my personal political, social, and economic views, which are pretty obvious, I try to avoid making calls for partisan political action. However, right now I don’t have that luxury. Good, bad, or otherwise the US system has evolved to function with two large political parties. Right now we have one functional one that is interested in self government and in governing within the institutions, structures, and systems we’ve inherited for self-government and one that has been veering off into revanchist, herrenvolkish extremism that is so enamored with simply obtaining and maintaining power that they have as little interest in protecting the US from serious national security threats as they do in promoting the general welfare. They don’t believe in the latter at all and will ignore the former if it helps them to obtain and/or maintain power.
But there’s more that we can do. If, despite the calls of Director of National Intelligence Coats, the US government under unified Republican control of the executive and legislative branches is not going to do anything serious to safeguard our elections, then we have to start leaning on our state officials. Our elections are run at the state and local level. As such we’ve reached the point where it is time to start putting pressure on our state and local officials to take election security seriously. Call your governors, your state legislators (unless you’re in Nebraska, then legislator) even if they’re out of session, your secretary of state or whichever state official is officially responsible for overseeing elections and tell them you expect them to tighten up the cyber security, that you expect paper backups of all ballots cast as a failsafe so that proper recounts can be properly conducted, not just an internal system audit, and that seeing demonstrated action on these issues will influence your vote in November. And then get all those friends you’re going to nag until they register to vote and then nag again to vote and all of their friends that they’re going to nag to do the same thing!
Things are all hosed up right now. The US is in serious jeopardy. But we still have the ability to change things. There won’t be any going back to the normal that existed prior to 10:00 PM EST on election day 2016. That normal no longer exists. But we have the ability to try to ensure that the new normal we’re going to get, as much as we’d like to go back to the old normal, is a better, more positive normal than what is being pushed for by the revanchists and the herrenvolkists and the white nationalists and the Christian nationalists and, frankly, Vladimir Putin, who have captured both the Republican Party and the political, social, economic, and religious groups within movement conservatism that support it.
We are at what my Sensei calls marubashi – the log bridge. Two samurai approach a log bridge high over a gorge. Neither will yield. To retreat is to be cut down. Going to the left or the right means falling to one’s death. The only way out is to go forward. To go through one’s opponent. The only way out of this is through!
Open thread!
lamh36
No GRE prep tonight…I’m all in on Maddow tonight…I expect Maddow to be really good tonight!
Jeffro
I’m going to do all of those things, and then I’m going to go read some LONE WOLF & CUB, just because of this here samurai/log bridge thingy, Adam.
(Ok, technically I am going to read LW&C tonight, and do all the things tomorrow. But you get the idea)
Be happy warriors, people! It’s the beginning of the end for these clowns.
Brachiator
One of the many reasons the Democrats need to retake Congress. From Pew.
Get out the vote.
Links
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/07/16/with-another-supreme-court-pick-trump-is-leaving-his-mark-on-higher-federal-courts/
Corner Stone
Febreze does not really clean the stinky items causing the odors. It just masks the source.
debbie
I don’t suppose there are any American think tanks thinking up way s to stop this and get us back on track?
lamh36
TS (the original)
@lamh36: Rachel says we may have to believe the unbelievable – nothing is more important than having a president that sides with a foreign power against his own country.
lamh36
hueyplong
Or, in Churchill’s words, maybe it’s the end of the beginning.
Mary G
Have always loved this woman:
Also, the dictionaries competition in subtweeting is getting fierce:
Mandalay
Hannity decides that the best form of defense is attack:
Note that Hannity completely ignores what Trump did – nothing to see there – and just goes after his critics.
lamh36
Got to get those talking points together…
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
What disturbs me is that nobody outside the usual circles is talking about this. The media isn’t addressing this; that the GOP has transformed into this authoritarian political party that only cares about money and power. The modern GOP has more in common with Turkey’s Justice and Development Party or Russia’s United Russia Party than a Burkean conservative’s fantasy.
The Midnight Lurker
@lamh36: The comments section of Foreign Policy magazine is pretty lively. Good luck on the GRE.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mandalay:
Knock on wood, but this dope truly is delusional.
efgoldman
@Jeffro:
Anything
Any fucking thing instead of despair and cowering.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@lamh36:
Lol. You mean the one that was originally commissioned by a Republican candidate and largely been proven correct by US intelligence. That dossier? Come on Sean, don’t kid yourself. Your time in the barrel is coming too.
lamh36
Im’a say it again…I mean Putin was asked if he wanted Chump to win…and he said “Yes I did”…will we now get the usually Republican stooges to stop the BS bout Russian really wanted HRC…cause …blah blah blah… Yeah…I won’t keep holding my breath on that
Mnemosyne
My mood today is closer to Fuck all you dumbass Hillary-hating motherfuckers. You were so busy hating Hillary that you refused to see TREASON under your very noses until it was too late.
Now the MSM is running around wringing their hands about Trump’s treason and all I want to say is, WE FUCKING TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
Mandalay
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Anyone who feels the need to write that drivel when plain English could be used instead is a pretentious asswipe.
Ian G.
Chile recovered from the Pinochet dictatorship, we can surely recover from this senile thug. Everyone needs to stay strong and keep their cool.
different-church-lady
@lamh36: Well, it’s nice to see Sean admit there was election interference.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Mandalay:
Are you calling Adam a pretentious asswipe? Because I’m quoting him from the post above.
different-church-lady
@Ian G.:
smintheus
We do need to press local/state officials to increase election security and absolutely insure that every voting machine has a paper ballot. We should also press them to institute more thorough and aggressive post-election random tests to ensure that the official counts from voting machines reflect the votes cast.
But we also have a delicate balance we need to strike this year. There’s a danger that raising a general alarm about the security of the vote will end up depressing some people’s enthusiasm to vote. What’s the point of voting if you strongly suspect the election is rigged? We need to avoid any implication that the vote is rigged, and stress instead that our enemies would like to be able to rig the election, and that strange things happened in the last election, so we need to ensure that our elections remain fair and remain ours.
different-church-lady
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Mandalay has called others worse.
hueyplong
@Mnemosyne: “My mood today is closer to Fuck all you dumbass Hillary-hating motherfuckers.”
I struggle to remember what it was like when that wasn’t my mood.
Jeffro
@efgoldman: x a million
Corner Stone
@Ian G.: Wow. Chile. Put that one on the whiteboard.
different-church-lady
@lamh36: Same reason Maggie slunk off Twitter today. Cowards.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Corner Stone:
What’s that supposed to mean?
Lapassionara
Thanks, Adam, for the calming advice. Hi
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: I highly recommend this. I was trying to find the illustration Sensei did of the marubashi for the book, but it isn’t posted online.
https://www.amazon.com/Aikido-Harmony-Nature-Mitsugi-Saotome/dp/0877738556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531790791&sr=8-1&keywords=aikido+and+the+harmony+of+nature
Corner Stone
@lamh36:
“And you get an indictment! And he gets an indictment! And everyone here gets an indictment!”
Patricia Kayden
@lamh36: So why not go on tv and say that to the public? Such spineless weasels.
Duane
When I heard Trumpov say the United States had acted foolish towards Russia, all I could say was…GRUUUU!
A Ghost To Most
After the shitshow.
smintheus
@Mary G: The sixth most common word search right now is “lickspittle”.
debbie
@lamh36:
I don’t get the feeling that all of them will pledge their fealty to Trump.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@different-church-lady:
I bet. Anybody who’s been reading Adam’s posts over the last few years and has a decent vocabulary will understand what he means.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@A Ghost To Most: a small thing at this point, maybe, but the way that no reporter/pundit/anchor (that I can see) even flinches when the Beast bellows “no collusion!” makes me crazy– trump tower meeting trump tower meeting trump tower meeting
goddammit
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Honestly, I’m not sure that’s the best argument to have at this point. You cannot change what happened.
jl
Hey, wait a minute. A couple of us commenters were very relieved the NATO summit and Putin performance review were not far worse. We are quite relieved and relaxed today.
Except, Josh Marshall’s twitter says Trump has a mystery meeting scheduled with Congressional leaders tomorrow. I wonder what that is about.
Edit: as for NRA and GOP being corrupted by Russian govt money, that’s been in the news for quite a whole now. i didn’t need to wait for no Mueller indictment.
But, yes, I am carnsarned by the situation, just no galloping fantods right now.
Patricia Kayden
@Ian G.: Unfortunately, the impact of Trump filling the courts with extremely rightwing Judges is going to be felt for decades to come.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Anton Flight 93 is down!!!//
He’s a putz. And a coward. And a hack!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Patricia Kayden:
They’re Dump judges. They’ll do stupid and crooked things and will get caught. And then can be removed from the bench.
germy
I was wrong. All this time, I thought they believed HRC would win, and they merely wanted a weakened Madame President.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Probably, he gave Alaska to Putin.
dexwood
@jl:
The orders from the boss will be delivered. The treason continues. That’s what that’s about.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: And a racist with pretensions of erudition, who Humble Brooks loves.
The Midnight Lurker
@jl: Removing sanctions.
lamh36
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: So Sarah won’t need her glasses to see Russia from her house?
chris
Daniel Dale soldiers on. Quite the thread.
Amir Khalid
@Mandalay:
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Adam ist kein prätentiöser Arschloch.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: To be honest, it’s on my business card.//
germy
Adam L Silverman
@Lapassionara: You’re welcome. And hello.
artem1s
Exactly. No distractions. Not even the pundits and trolls who bemoan that the Dems haven’t already chosen their candidate for 2020 and why oh why isn’t s/he more charismatiiiiiiic! NO CONVERSATIONS ABOUT 2020 UNTIL THE 2018 ELECTIONS ARE OVER.
jl
@The Midnight Lurker: Will be interesting to see Ryan and McConnell try to sell that idea right now. And, if that it was it’s about, we’ll probably get a chance to see them try.
Elections are the fix for this. And if turnout is high enough, not enough time or money, or from Trumpster side, competence to rig it effectively. Vote should be the first word to anyone we meet who is coming around to common sense on the disaster that is the Trump administration.”Vote now, it might be your last chance!. Even if the worst comes, at last you can tell your grandkids about it, if you trust them not to turn you in.”
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
It’s not an argument. It’s an indictment.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Not sure who Humble Brooks is, but okay.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@germy:
I’m more concerned by the fact that the date on that tweet says July 17th and not today’s date.
jl
@A Ghost To Most: Looks like everyone knows what ‘flunky’ means already.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: time zones are web developer kryptonite. These things happen.
germy
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Maggie is ahead of the rest of us.
Amir Khalid
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
Over here, it’s July 17 right now.
germy
@Adam L Silverman: My guess was our Mr. Brooks, the NYT columnist? The salad bar man?
Shell
Hmmm. I wonder how Sean Spicer’s book tour is gonna go? Trump “is a unicorn riding a unicorn over a rainbow.” seems even more ludicrous now, if thats possible.
Mnemosyne
In the thread below, Omnes found this fun analysis of the brooches QEII wore for the various stages of the Trump visit. Apparently it’s well-known that she signals specific things through her jewelry, and the shade she threw was masterful:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1018570246037352449.html
? Martin
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Is she in the WH press pool and therefore in Europe at GMT+2 or thereabouts.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
In that case, happy birthday! ?
Adam L Silverman
@germy: I don’t normally associate humility with David Brooks, hence my confusion.
Corner Stone
@The Midnight Lurker:
If Trump says it he will be boo’d out of the joint. The Congress passed enforcement of sanctions by major bipartisan levels. After Trump breaking out the kneepads today there is no way R “Leadership” would ever bring anything like that to the floor.
I expect him to get trounced in a heated, yet completely silent, way when he meets with elected officials. He can’t have helped but maybe two dozen safe R seats with this display.
germy
@Shell: Who would want to buy or read such a book? I wondered the same thing about Donna Bazille’s book? Who is the audience?
Mike in NC
GOP has never been about anything beyond tax breaks for the rich. The rest of their agenda is bullshit to con the yahoos.
Adam L Silverman
@Shell: Is this Spicer’s book tour or Deadpool’s?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@chris: I don’t know how Dale does it, but I’m glad he and others do. Sounds like the two dumb blobs are unplugged
TaMara (HFG)
Teddys Person
@Mnemosyne: Good golly, the Obama’s are a class act.
germy
@Mike in NC: I thought the three pillars were tax breaks, no regulations, and no social safety net?
lamh36
The Midnight Lurker
@jl: Putin is so cocky. I just keep wondering what he has up his sleeve. The scope of this thing is unbelievably huge, my big fear is that it will creep across the aisle. God help us.
different-church-lady
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
PUTIN: “I accept only if you keep Sarah Palin.”
smintheus
I have a question for journalists after today’s repulsive display of treason: Will you please stop denying that Trump means exactly what he says?
Because your infantile desperation over the last several years to find more innocent explanations for every foul excretion of his, and his alone, is growing wearisome.
For example, when Trump praised the Nazis marching and killing in Charlottesville: he meant to praise the Nazis. When he said Latino refugees were animals: he meant they are non-human animals. I could go on, but you get the idea. Part of being adult is accepting that people are exactly who they show themselves to be, not wishing to make them better or other than they are.
Mike in NC
@Shell: Wait a couple of weeks and Spicer’s book will be in the remaindered bin at Barnes & Noble for $2.99.
Gravenstone
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Mandalay doth know of pretentious assholism. The boy is a natural at it.
? Martin
FWIW, after the 2016 election I pretty much gave up on the national direction. I’ll vote, and volunteer and do all that I can do, but I don’t gamble because I know the odds are with the house and not me. Other than aggressive opposition, there’s nothing productive (from a policy standpoint) to do nationally. The better course of action to me personally was to protect California while the nation goes to shit. CA is strong enough to resist the national trend, and once this bottoms out, someone is going to need to lead the recovery. Europe needed a Marshall Plan from the US, and the US is going to need California. It’s why I’m not freaking out over RvW. It’s lost. It’s been lost for some time now. California has consistently run in the other direction on that issue, and it’s important that we continue to do so, as on immigration, climate change, healthcare and a host of other issues. We’re the biggest laboratory and it needs to keep running.
I know that’s not a kind attitude, but until the broader public takes the kind of turn that happened to GWB after Katrina, it seems like there are more productive places to put my energy.
germy
lgerard
@Shell:
It is published by Regnery, the last resort for wingnuts, so I’m guessing not well
The Midnight Lurker
@Corner Stone: I hope you’re right. But they keep hedging on Helsinki and making statements like, “We need better relations with Russia.” And on cue, I just saw that Rand Paul is going to Russia. Nice.
Major Major Major Major
@lgerard: but he’ll top the best sellers list on AstroTurf pre-sales so he’s got that going for him
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: David Brooks who pretends to be humble, like Uriah Heep in David Copperfield. He also taught a course on humility at Yale. He lauded Anton’s infamous essay from his perch at the NYT in 2016
Lapassionara
@Adam L Silverman: the hi was a typo, but I didn’t edit it because I figured you would be kind and not snarky about it. Whatever the program is, it is giving my typing skills a run for their money. But seriously,this press conference almost did me in.thanks for being a voice of sanity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
man, that neighbor really conked him on the head hard
or something. I think Rand SonofRon has six kids? (that we know about….) That’s expensive.
and he always has seemed goofy, maybe he’s goofed his way into blackmail
Adam L Silverman
@Lapassionara: No worries.
Amir Khalid
@lgerard:
A question occurs to me: who pays for Regnery to publish poorly thought-out, badly written right-wing screeds that no one buys or reads?
germy
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
@germy:
@Amir Khalid:
@? Martin:
Whoops ?♂️
Adam L Silverman
Oh goody!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
The Countess just asked what the road out is, because I am not sanguine. When I expressed that we’re probably just shy of an outbreak of genuine violence, she surprised me by agreeing while saying “I don’t want a civil war – I just want Congress to impeach the motherfucker so we can all enjoy our lives again”.
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
@The Midnight Lurker:
Which ones? I’ve seen lots of them condemning Trump for this, even if they won’t do anything substantive.
Gravenstone
@The Midnight Lurker: He considers himself unassailable. As a head of state he knows no one will act directly to physically oppose and remove him. And he has the tools of that state at his disposal to further his kleptocratic desires.
Miss Bianca
@Mandalay: Speaking of pretentious asswipes…
germy
@Adam L Silverman: Maybe he’s got some firings to announce.
Adam L Silverman
Even better!
Chyron HR
@germy:
North Korea-style?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Adam L Silverman:
He’s prolly firing Mueller.
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: He’s going to promote his resorts. Duh.
chris
Backing up a little, here’s a bunch of pictures of Maria Butina and many GOP luminaries. She got around! It will be interesting to see what Mr. Mueller thinks of this rogues gallery.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Gravenstone:
Yep – this isn’t over until/unless McConnell and Ryan say “you’re done”.
And remember – debt ceiling is coming.
tobie
@Mnemosyne: Late to this thread, but thanks for the self-righteous rant. You capture all of our outrage today.
The Midnight Lurker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I live in Texas. A couple of weeks back, I was sitting at an intersection waiting for the light. A pick-up flying the Stars & Bars (not a small one) raced through the intersection. There were two men standing up in the back with assault rifles. That’s illegal. The standing up in the bed of a truck while it’s in motion, not carrying rifles in full view. Now, their weapons were slung, but I could help wonder where those boys were headed (and please don’t say Klan meeting because everyone I tell this story to says that). I think we’re on the brink and all it’s going to take is one dropped rifle. Sorry, I wish I was more optimistic about our chances.
The Midnight Lurker
@Gravenstone: Are you talking about Putin or Trump. Sorry, I have a poor sense of humor these days.
germy
@Chyron HR:
Maybe he’s just following Putin’s advice?
I hope not. My wife is ready to march. (again) I’m buying new sneakers tomorrow.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
gene108
@lamh36:
What do the Russians have on Hannity?
What he is doing, being Trump’s biggest cheerleader, is beyond any rational attempt to defend Republicans.
lgerard
@Amir Khalid:
The “think tanks” and advocacy organizations who buy them in bulk for peanuts to hand out as party favors
germy
Another county heard from:
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Oh, that *is* fun! And I’m not really a jewelry gal, but man, those brooches are something else!
Timurid
@? Martin:
What about the people who don’t live in California?
I don’t live in California because I’m not good enough at my job to live in California. So I guess I’ll deserve whatever comes next.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: and Comey knows from being a useful idiot to Vladimir Putin
opiejeanne
@Amir Khalid: that would have been my dad’s 100th birthday.
My sister posted about it today on Facebook. I’m the bossy older sister so I corrected her. She still hasn’t thanked me. Huh.
germy
@lgerard:
Artificially pushing them into “bestseller” status. I don’t think that happened with Donna Bazille’s book, though…
B.B.A.
@gene108: You do have to understand, in the wingnut mind Hillary Clinton is Satan incarnate. Therefore anything up to and including appointing Putin world emperor is permissible to prevent her from reaching high office.
MobileForkbeard
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: This would probably get a bunch of republicans to rally to him. And then they could use the outrage over Comey and the fact that the media are still both bothsidesing Mueller’s investigation to bury this latest obvious treason.
Okay, no. That’s too silly, even for me.
Corner Stone
@The Midnight Lurker: Heading to a Klan meeting?
PhoenixRising
@gene108: Hannity is Cohen’s other client. He’s so far down the hole with Trump’s mobbed up Russian connections that he should have a food taster. Hell, maybe the canary in himself office died this afternoon and this is what he looks like in genuine fear for his life.
p.a.
I guess we take any allies we can; the Republic is at risk. But I hope there is a blue wave in November so large we can tell the latecomers, people who just this week turn on trump or slink off in silence (silence= acquiescence) to go fuck themselves.
Amir Khalid
@opiejeanne:
Gee, I wonder why. ;)
Omnes Omnibus
@Timurid: A lot of Californian posters are very smug these days.
P-Dog
I know this probably comes off as disingenuous to you guys, but I’m saying this honestly not as trolling, but just a bit of advice.
First my credentials: I’m a former progressive, but yeah I left during the 2016 elections. I’m also a long time Balloon-juice reader — I started back even when John Cole was a Republican. I saw John’s change during the 2008 elections to say “eff it” and become an actual Democrat. He wasn’t the only one, LGF also did the same afterwards. In fact, I read the gamut of liberal blogs for the last 15 years — Kevin Drum, Duncan Black/Atrios, DailyKos, Mydd, First-Draft, John Aravosis. Hell, I read Ezra Klein back when he was with Jesse at Pandagon. The point of my credentials is to show you that I was genuinely a progressive and a liberal, and I believed in the movement.
I’m not anymore, and today’s post shows a large reason why: you guys have been consumed by vitriol and hysteria. It’s NOT as bad as you guys are making it out. The Russia thing IMO is genuinely a loser of an issue. You guys of course have also been consumed by identity politics, and are running so far to the left that some of you are claiming poor old Bernie Sanders is not liberal enough. Back off on the Trump Derangement Syndrome, and back off on the PC politics. That’s my advice.
Why do I give advice that might get a “eff off” from you guys? Because like you guys, I don’t like a Republican monopoly on government. It would be nice if the Dems could get the house, but even right now, it’s looking shaky — and the reason is NOT because of Russian hacking. The reason is because you guys might actually not get a blue wave due to hysteria and an adherence to PC politics.
If you still want to give me a big “eff off”, that’s fine, this is your space. Plus I’m used to being shunned by the left (it’s how I left in 2016, #walkaway). But I do think you’re doing it at your own peril. Anyways, I’ve provided my credentials enough, it’s up to you whether you want to take my advice or not.
dmsilev
@germy: I refuse to sign up for a Twitter account, but please tell me he’s getting raked over the coals for that bit of sanctimony.
cmorenc
@Mandalay:
“herrenvolkish” sounds to the naive American ear like something you have to pay premium extra for in a German FKK (sex) club.
Yeah, I know, it actually means something like “master race”.
Also, based on what I’ve read over the past months in here from, Adam vs Mandalay, I can confidently pick which one posts objective, useful info and analysis and which one is a dickweed troll.
different-church-lady
@P-Dog: Knock it off, Doug J.
Timurid
@P-Dog:
I take it the P stands for Putin?
Eff off? You can go fuck yourself until you bleed to death.
Omnes Omnibus
@P-Dog: Thank you for your insight.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hey look, Maw, we got one!
debbie
@germy:
Yowsa!
dmsilev
@P-Dog: ‘Bernie Sanders is not far left enough’ is ..not a popular opinion around here. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone advocating it. Are you sure you’re posting your complaint in the right place?
Chip Daniels
@P-Dog:
Eff off.
#walkaway is a Russian troll outfit.
Platonailedit
@germy:
That FIFTH Ave. sign board is a nice touch.
The Midnight Lurker
@? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Well, I just saw that Rand Paul is going to Russia, and although I haven’t seen the Blitzer (putz) interview, the headline is that Paul hedged when asked about the President’s performance in Helsinki. Ms. Lindsey (whom I think is trying to get Chris Steele killed, but that’s me) called it a “missed opportunity”, hardly a full-throated denunciation. There are others. Google “GOP deeply worried” or some shit. The traitors will pop on your screen like a rash.
mike in dc
Oh look, Procopius is trying a new handle. I suppose we should be flattered. The bot-promoted hashtag towards the end is kind of a dead giveaway, bro.
chris
@P-Dog: Wow! That’s the most sophisticated bot I’ve ever seen.
Platonailedit
@P-Dog:
Busted.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Who knows.
Walker
@dmsilev:
Russian trolls are not known for their reading comprehension.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Are they sure they’ve been invited?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mike in dc: I thought Procopious was the one who thought Bernie was too centrist.
Of course, your theory may well remain cromulent.
The Midnight Lurker
@P-Dog: Hey bro, I’m going to accept that you’re not a bot, but your position on Russia is naive.
Gravenstone
@P-Dog: Thank you for faxing us your credenzas. Now kindly feed your head into a running wood chipper.
different-church-lady
@P-Dog:
Fixed that for you.
MJS
@P-Dog: You almost got me with your dead-on parody of concern trolling. Well done.
dmsilev
@Walker: Yeah, I was a bit slow on the uptake there.
Sigh. I think I’ll do something more peaceful, like watch the local hummingbirds argue over who gets access to the feeder (they’re territorial little buggers, and the fact that there’s enough food for all is …irrelevant).
MobileForkbeard
@P-Dog: I like how this guy tries to downplay Russia and Trump’s weird subservience that has even Republicand blanching… by using #walkaway like we haven’t known for weeks that it’s Republican propaganda that was amplified by Russian propaganda bots.
If this is trolling. it’s some combination of extremely stupid and masterful.
different-church-lady
@Gravenstone:
Really, nobody’s been kind enough to do that for us in a while.
Nor the other thing you mentioned.
mike in dc
@Adam L Silverman:
First guess: Trump is going to tell them that he’s decided to lift/not enforce sanctions on Russia anymore.
gene108
@Patricia Kayden:
This has nothing to do with Trump. This is a pact between The Heritage Foundation, The Federalist Society, and McConnell and Grasslwy to end all Senate norms to pack the judiciary.
Trump doesn’t know and doesn’t care about the people he “appoints”.
Blaming Trump lets the other bad actors off the hook.
Miss Bianca
@P-Dog: Thank you for your concern. I get it – you’re not fussed about a little light treason, and you just can’t understand why any of us would be. That’s fine. But please – do feel free to fuck the hell right off with that “#walkaway” schtick.
The Midnight Lurker
@Corner Stone: What do I know? I didn’t follow them, didn’t want to get my ass shot off. Maybe I’m prejudiced, but in my humble opinion, if you’re flying the S&B then you’re a fuckin’ racist and a Trump supporter.
dmsilev
@Gravenstone:
Always nice to see the classics return.
Gelfling 545
@Shell: Do you have any idea what he thought he meant by that? It eludes me entirely.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nice state, but I didn’t want to live there.
The Midnight Lurker
@different-church-lady: HAHAHAHAHAHA!
mad citizen
@The Midnight Lurker: Was thinking today, have the ammosexuals and neo-Confederates ever considered that the other side can also possess weapons, and said weapons might be pointed back at them?
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca:
You weren’t affected by the mudslides out your way, I trust?
mike in dc
@chris:
Can someone google search some of that? It almost looks like a template.
stinger
I’m gonna need more carrots.
Miss Bianca
@dmsilev: We’ve been filling up three feeders at least twice a day!
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: And?
The Midnight Lurker
@Corner Stone: Ahh, shit. Sorry for the first reply, I missed the snark.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: Not yet, but I am wondering how I’m getting to Denver tomorrow…since the most direct ways up to the Front Range from here are cut off. Probably head west to Salida and then up 285.
You coming to the meet-up?
A Ghost To Most
@P-Dog: Fuck the fuck right off. Come back when you finally correct that cranio-rectal inversion.
The Midnight Lurker
@mad citizen: That’s my fantasy. I can’t wait for these fuckers to run up against the 101st Fighting Lesbians.
p.a.
@P-Dog: That is some fan-fucking-tastic writing there dude. May the ghost of Steve Gilliard visit you tonight and provide you with an alternative option for waste expulsion. You read him too, right? He had lots to say about your type.
Gravenstone
@dmsilev: After the list of supposed bona fides, someone had to say it.
chris
@mike in dc: Good thought but I get nothing definitive.
dmsilev
@Miss Bianca: I don’t get quite that many birds. I have two feeders up, and they last for a week or so between fillings.
Have managed to photograph them in hover mode (thanks to the lure of the feeder). Not all that easy, but I’ve gotten a few nice shots.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: I do not know.
? Martin
@Timurid:
What about them? Look, I have no animosity toward the people of Alabama, but they have chosen their path and there’s fuck-all I can do about it. I’m not going to throw energy at that problem until there is some evidence that the people there want to change.
Fuck, half the problem here is state GOP governments fucking with the voting system on par with what Russia is doing. Maybe we wouldn’t have some of the national problems if more energy had been put into state issues. And that’s my point – if you want a strong resistance to the GOP, that’s not going to happen from Balloon Juice. California is strong enough to wage that battle, provided that we maintain good leadership, strong voting rights, and are willing to fight in the manner that a state the size of a large country can do. The states have been tying the feds up in court for the last year, and that needs to continue. I can’t trust other states to elect Democrats when your states are gerrymandered and your state is suppressing voters. California doesn’t suffer those problems and is key to winning the House.
It’s not that I don’t care about the other states, it’s that most of the states are getting exactly the results they voted for, and I can’t help those problems from here. Politics involves a lot of difficult to understand timing. Why did the Parkland shooting resonate in a way that Vegas did not? There was a favorable alignment of action and timing that didn’t happen with most previous shootings. Why did public opinion change so harshly for GWB after Katrina? Same thing.
The general public isn’t yet ready to receive that action wrt Trump. Access Hollywood didn’t change that, and I doubt today will either. I don’t know when it will change, but like I said above, we’re still in the ‘owning the libs’ moment nationally. We’re not in CA.
chris
Imma push the reset button. Everyone say Awwww!
Adopting a kitten.
Millard Filmore
@lamh36:
And the government of every target country has an obligation to stop our interference. Just as Trump has an obligation to stop Putin’s interference. Letting this slide or egging Putin on is not acceptable.
Adam L Silverman
@mike in dc: That is a possibility. My guess is it will be whatever he agreed to when one on one with Putin.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve lived here 9 years, and still haven’t been downtown. Crowds. I’ve been all over the western 2/3 of the state, but not the 16th St. Mall. Plus, psych1 may be there “with guns and goofy ribbons In her hair”, to quote Slobberbone.
Be well.
TS (the original)
@chris: Begosh – all of them Katie
dimmsdale
@The Midnight Lurker: I think I’m with you on that. I think it’s entirely possible that some of our leading Democratic pols have (perhaps inadvertently ) played footsie with Putin too, or in some way been corrupted by the money in ways yet to be revealed. (and the revelations will come at the worst possible time, and give our cowardly media the “See? Both Sides!” narrative they can’t live without.).
Marcy Wheeler (Emptywheel) has been cautioning against getting too attached to “heroes” in a way that makes me think some of our guys may be tarnished (even IF inadvertantly). So it makes sense to start with what Adam suggests up top: state and local, call call call, and expect no one to save our *sses but ourselves.
Omnes Omnibus
@? Martin: You missed his/her point.
MobileForkbeard
@Adam L Silverman: I think “Guys, we’ve got to stop all sanctions or Russia is going to blackmail me” is probably not the persuasive case he thinks it is.
Joking aside, I think it’s going to be damage control and we’ll come out of it with some small additional sanctions that won’t get enforced but allow Republicans to save face and keep backing him completely.
Archon
Only in America could a political party that’s 95 percent white accuse the other party of playing “identity politics”
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
And I left, with no desire to live there again.
Brickley Paiste
I had thought about posting something about how Trump must be hung/arrested as soon as he touches American soil or maybe coming up with a really, really, clever characterization of him. Something about orange, and genitals or excrement and so forth.
But I decided not to since there are so many people here who post like that dozens of times a day.
It is such a privilege to be in the company of such magnificent jackals.
Adam L Silverman
@The Midnight Lurker: Shabbat services at the local synagogue?
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady:
He presented his credentials but not his credenzas.
The Midnight Lurker
@dimmsdale: Amen.
? Martin
@gene108: Probably nothing. I suspect we’re in the ‘sunk costs’ phase. Hannity already has so much invested in Trump, both in terms of his brand but also if Trump falls, how will Hannity be viewed as an enabler/sycophant? Once you start covering for someone’s bad acts, you now become part of the bad act, and become invested in continuing it. That’s why Rudy is such a bad agent for Trump – Rudy has his own misdeeds related to this whole shitshow to cover for, and at some point he’ll burn Trump in order to protect himself.
Hannity wasn’t a client of Cohen for nothing. He’s involved in all of this somehow. He likely has no choice but to cover for him.
zhena gogolia
@Gravenstone:
Haha, didn’t read the whole thread, but I knew somebody would have gotten to the credenzas before me.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brickley Paiste: Do you think he did well? *
*He did not.
Timurid
@? Martin:
To repeat, I didn’t choose any of this. I’m not white, I’m not straight and I’m sure as hell not Republican.
I’m living in the South because the job market says that’s where I’m supposed to live. All the jobs in nicer places are held by people better at my job than I am (at least in the opinion of the market). So I guess I made my bed just as much as the fools in the MAGA hats and I deserve what’s coming next?
AnotherBruce
@different-church-lady: @debbie: @Duane: @Major Major Major Major: @smintheus:
TS (the original)
@P-Dog:
EFF OFF
The Midnight Lurker
@Adam L Silverman: HAHA! Maybe. Kinda doubt it though, Cap.
Brickley Paiste
@P-Dog:
The left of this country broke its association the interests of the workers and labor in the 1960. Thus decoupled the elite left became increasingly ghettoized and self-referential as it gravitated toward the arts/academia/etc.
The left became so conditioned on spectacle that it came to believe that was the most important part of political identity. Not what programs and policies are worth fighting and dyeing for but, instead, how one’s hot takes allow the construction of the most robust scaffolding of rhetoric.
The imaginations and intellects that should be crafting the most powerful messages and writing the songs about the class issues and the struggle between the classes engage in “social media activism” spewing outrage at what some sandwich shop employee did in Wisconsin or some other such bullshit.
I saw this happening clearly in 2016 and became convinced that Clinton was going to lose, at least in part, because of her perfunctory embrace of issues important to the struggling working class in America.
zhena gogolia
@Timurid:
No, you don’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brickley Paiste: Prepaid spam. Troll.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: The email address has been used for other things than posting here. I found it attached to a post at a DEV X board. And on a German language forum about how to hack hotmail accounts. Prior to 21 MAY 2018, whoever this is hadn’t posted here since 27 OCT 2011. Same email address then and now. The IPs used are roughly in the same geographic area then and now. Posted maybe 10 times between 2009 and when he or she disappeared in 2011. One of his last posts in 2011 included this:
Brickley Paiste
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t understand this at all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brickley Paiste: Others do.
Gelfling 545
@Gravenstone: Ok. That made me laugh out loud, a thing I haven’t done much lately.
chris
@Adam L Silverman:
And #walkaway. Surprise! No,not really. So, just another poor slob with some form of derangement syndrome.
Platonailedit
@Brickley Paiste:
Hey look, another P-Dog.
Amir Khalid
@mike in dc:
“Anymore”?
SFAW
@P-Dog:
I am genuinely torn re: how to respond to your delightful opinion. Perhaps you can choose one of the following:
1) Do you have a fucking point that is NOT irrational? Because I can’t find one.
2) Cпасибо, товарищ
3) Delete your self.
Decisions, decisions …
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
From Wikipedia:
SFAW
@Gravenstone:
Seconded
stinger
@chris: Thank you!
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes, Brooks loses no opportunity in the FTFNYT to tell us how humble he is.
SFAW
@Brickley Paiste:
You forgot to mention that she didn’t go to Wisconsin (et al.) Although you were oh-so-close in your previous paragraph.
J R in WV
Maybe Sean is doing some good dope…?
Fair Economist
2 paid trolls in one thread? Silverman must have hit a nerve in Moscow.
The Midnight Lurker
@Fair Economist: I hope he stomped on it.
MobiusKlein
@P-Dog: where will you walk to? And what policy of the D’s will you demand as their token of good faith?
Higher minimum wage? Progesdive taxes? Carbon tax?
Or are you abdicating all responsibility, and asking us to do so too?
Matt McIrvin
@? Martin:
Unless California just decides to tell the rest of us to go to hell and secedes, at which point the rest of the US will probably fragment.
Lizzy L
@Matt McIrvin: I suppose it could happen but I don’t see it.
Another lurker
@The Midnight Lurker: Hey! My experience with a “Heritage, not Hate” S & B fan is interesting.
This happened soon after I moved to Fla. . I was using the local fishing pier. It was a week day so myself and one other angler had the pier to ourselves. There were a few walkers on the pier. One gentleman sidled up to me and the other fisherman. He began his conversation by asking me if I really believed that Man evolved in Africa. When I said “yes, I believe the bulk of the science points to that being true”. BTW Jethro, as I like to refer to him, cut a fine figure: skinny, ponytail, blotchy complexion, chain smoker. Jethro said he believed that man also evolved in the Northlands. He added that there is no way that he and his family were related to ni(clangs!). Well, soon after that, I excused myself and headed back to my car, to make my getaway.
What staggered me was the loud, out and proud racist vibe was so casually accepted. People think nothing of throwing around the “N” word.
I’m from NY, but I was shocked by the casual attitude toward racism.
I’m moving to Ca. in Dec.
MobiusKlein
@Timurid: California will open it’s golden gates for you.
We will be a fortress where the forces of righteousness can stream out from at the best time.
Sorry it is so expensive to live here.
Jay
@MobiusKlein:
“@P-Dog: where will you walk to?”
Short walk, long pier
Rms
@? Martin: my new hobby is swing lefting ca-10. So yeah California
Rms
@? Martin: my new hobby is swing lefting ca-10. So yeah California
Millard Filmore
@Timurid:
From my viewpoint, no you do not deserve what’s coming next, but there is bugger all I can do to stop it from here.
Corner Stone
@Jay:
That is some deep shit right there.
Chetan Murthy
@P-Dog: Sweetie, let’s set aside the Russian thing. Let’s assume Shitlord ISN’T a fucking Russian asset. Let’s assume the GrOPers aren’t Russian assets. He’s a racist misogynist white supremacist fascist. He’s a kleptocrat. He brings with him a pack of thieves, and those that aren’t thieves are incompetent. He’s going to fucking overturn Roe v. Wade.
Let me put it personally: I have lived in the US since I was FOUR years old. I have a PhD in Computer Science from an Ivy League school. I have held NSF, NSF-NATO, ONR, and Chateaubriand postgraduate and postdoctoral fellowships. And these fuckers think I’m less of an American than some Cletus just b/c he’s white and I’m brown? fuck that.
Sikhs are being targeted in my country (I won’t go so far as “your” b/c maybe your real name is Boris). Gay people are being assaulted. Jews are being attacked. All manner of hate crimes are rising dramatically.
So y’know, even *forgetting* the whole Russian thing, I would be EXACTLY as up-in-arms as I am now.
Oh and btw, Roe v. Wade isn’t identity politics. If you think so, you can fuck yourself.
Chetan Murthy
@Timurid:
Timurid, let me turn this around: what can we Californians do about Louisiana? I mean, realistically, what can we do? B/c I don’t see much (if anything). Look: I grew up outside Fort Worth. I know how backward some of those asswipes can be. But again, what can anybody outside of LA do about it?
And something else: you’ve repeatedly talked about how you feel you’re not good enough at your field to get a job in CA. Uh … IIRC you’re an academic? Maybe think about leaving academia? I got drop-kicked out of academia at age 30 after 10 yr of grad school and postdocs. Spent a month staring at the living room wall in my mom’s house, and then, well, picked myself up, retooled to become a systems programmer, and got moving on a new career. I don’t know what your field us, but it’s worth considering switching to something that -is- portable.
Matt McIrvin
@Chetan Murthy: I live in blue blue Massachusetts (not as blue as California–we have an annoying tendency to elect Republican governors and the occasional Scott Brown–but pretty blue) but about three miles from the New Hampshire border. At times I think that if I were a true patriot I would pick up and move three miles over so my vote would be in a real swing state, with a far more ridiculous legislature to be brought to heel. But honestly I don’t wanna.
Chetan Murthy
@Matt McIrvin: If CA (and hopefully OR, WA, NV (hope?)) go, then New England and some of the Mid-Atlantic ought to also. That would make it plain to our military that they can either wage war against most of the population , or they can arrest the traitors and return us to sanity.
Obviously I hope it doesn’t come to that. But I keep returning to “what happens if they overturn Roe v Wade via passing a fetal heartbeat law or some such?”
The Ancient Randonneur
Anyone seen Yarrow tonight?
https://mobile.twitter.com/YesMomsCan/status/1019036519791722496/photo/1
Matt McIrvin
@Chetan Murthy: ICE is already waging war on plenty of people in my state, probably in yours too. Snatching them right out of courtrooms and immigration hearings. State borders aren’t a defense against some of this.
Chetan Murthy
@Matt McIrvin: I’ve been thinking about this. And yeah, it enrages me. But until it becomes clear that the Federal government is really out-of-control (i.e. Mueller’s investigation grinds to a halt) I don’t think we can convince the state-government equivalent of Dianne Feinstein (or maybe Patrick Leahy?) to do something. And so innocent chlidren and immigrants will suffer.
Perhaps it’s a sign of my parochialism, that for me that “bridge too far” is outlawing abortion & overturning Roe v. Wade. Or stopping Mueller (firing Rosenstein, etc). What was done to immigrant children should have been enough. Idunno. It’s all a moral black hole. Not fraught. Not fraught. All a gaping moral black hole.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: I just want you to know Jason Momoa drinking tea is perfect.
Mel
@? Martin: Be careful about painting with such a broad brush, and letting your frustration blind you to the complex truth of the situation we are in. People live in, move to, or stay in red states for many and diverse reasons.
I came back to a red state after college because I knew firsthand just how shitty the educational system there was, and how difficult it was for people who needed to access social services to actually be able to get any real assistance. I chose to try to give some really great kids the encouragement that was NOT there in my school experience or that of my peers.
I came back years ago and stayed through my twenties and thirties because although there are a lot of real assholes here who do deserve what they voted for, there are a lot of good people here who deserve the things that THEY vote for – good public schools, better job training, better social services, viable public transportation, mental health support, better healthcare, etc- even though the candidates they support and fight for don’t win because of gerrymandering, voter suprression, you name it.
I am now here and couldn’t move if I wanted to, because of serious health problems and the needs of an elderly parent who has Alzheimer’s.
Do you understand that if everyone who gives a damn flees, that we never take back those states? We not only need those votes, we need to help the people who are living in those states b/c they are trying to do the work from the ground up. We also desperately need to help the people who are in those states because they have to be because of job market, age, family obligations, lack of funds to move, illness, or a multitude of other reasons, none of which involve “choosing” or “wanting” to be oppressed.
Stop and think about how many good, intelligent, people who comment on this blog are living in deeply red states. Do you really think that they deserve, approve of, or asked for this right wing hell because of their zip code?
I understand your anger, your frustration, and the sense of futility that can creep up on you from all this nightmarish shit pounding at us from all sides, all the time.
I feel it, too, and some days it’s so overwhelming that I don’t know how to think ahead further than the next hour or the next day. But I really believe that if we start shutting out entire groups of people just because they live in a state that is under Republican control, and talking about writing off entire states as hopeless, then we are sabotaging ourselves.
It’s like cutting off an entire foot to treat an infected toe.
Mel
@Adam L Silverman: Bravo! You are the Poirot of cyberspace on this one! ?
Did he /she reveal what the first language is? Even if the answer is “Nyet”, I bet we could wager a guess…
Chetan Murthy
@Mel:
Mel, I doubt anybody in a Blue State is unaware of the existence of decent people in Red States. Hell, we’re all praying that Texas turns blue. I grew up there, and I have enormous sympathy for the downtrodden in Texas. I gave a lot of money both to Planned Parenthood, and political causes, in Texas (and plan to give some more).
But. There’s a thing called self-preservation. Some of us fled red states b/c we found them toxic and dangerous to our health. It happened for me one day in grad school (in upstate NY which, for all it’s “red”ness, is still a paradise compared to Texas): in year 4 I realized that Texas had been a racist nightmare from which I’d only just then woken up. So I’d say to you that you cannot blame people who escape from red states, who don’t live in red states, for rejoicing in their freedom. I was physically attacked by my P.E. class in high school b/c they thought I was gay (and I was feigning no interest in females b/c I was brown, and my entire friend-group was white, so I think you can do the math there). I have a gay friend who came out to me our first week in New York State, after growing up in Texas (and both of us going to college in Texas).
There’s a thing called self-preservation, and a thing called rejoicing at being free, finally free.
And again, we -all- want for the curse on places like Texas to be lifted. And I certainly do what I can to help. But one day, if Texas wants to drag California down with them (say, outlawing abortion nationwide) I won’t feel any compunction at California cutting themselves off from the rest of the US. Self-preservation is a thing for polities too, not just for individuals.
P.S. We live in England. You live in occupied France . Yes, we want to help you be free.
Mel
@Chetan Murthy: I absolutely agree with you – if somebody wants to or needs to move to a blue state, lucky them! Having access to a large community of like-minded people, better safety nets, better health care, and safer environmental conditions can save a person’s sanity or even their life in some instances. That being said, a lot of non- right wing people live in red states for a lot of different reasons.
What I was trying to express is that, wherever we live, I think that we have to keep trying to see the human aspect of the big picture. We still need to try to fight for the heath and safety of the multitudes of people living in places in our country where they are not safe.
We can fight that fight from wherever we are – I just feel that we shouldn’t stop fighting, or write people or entire states of people off.
Mel
@Mel: Your comment about your school experience is a gut wrencher.
I’m so sorry you went through the nightmarish things you experienced. It’s hard for people who have never experienced it to understand just how brutally it wounds.
My best friend in high school tried to come out to her Evangelical mother and got regular beatings at church and at home as a reward for her courage and dignity. I’m a person of wildly mixed heritage (Melungeon, European, Middle Eastern, and bit of First Nations) raised in a scarily Evangelical rural Appalachian farm community largely by my outspoken, pro-life Quaker grandmother. You can imagine how lovely the experience was for us there. Good times, those.
My mother was on the receiving end of so much taunting as a young teenager (same community) about her “Squaw skin” and “Pocahantas eyes” that she actually burnt her face and scalp and torso and turned her hair orange by sitting in the sun and pouring bottle after bottle of peroxide onto her skin for hours, trying to take the color out of her beautiful skin.
Mel
@Mel<@Chetan Murthy: The above comment was for you, not for myself. Oops! I plead sleepiness and a case of “I’m old and where the hell did I put my reading glasses?!” as the cause of the blooper. ?
Chetan Murthy
@Mel:
Words fail. I know this: until I lived amongst so many people of different ethnicities (here in CA) I spent my life around mostly white people (even back East in NYC/BOS). And so, I was always at least a little surprised when I looked in the mirror, and saw a brown man, b/c inside, I felt white. It was only after moving here, and living here nearly 10yr, that I started feeling comfortable in my brown skin. I’ve always found small white children to be endearing. But it was only in the last few years, that I found small children of Indian descent (or Asian, Black, Hispanic children) to also be endearing in that way.
As for …. scars. Well, yanno, these days my hatred of the people I grew up around knows no bounds. No bounds at all. Until 2016 I despised them and never wanted to be in the same state as them. But now, well, it’s much, much worse. So I can somewhat understand how you must have felt. I was lucky: I was cis, het, and male. The only thing I had going against me, was that I was brown.
I don’t think any progressives want to abandon red states, Mel. Notice that nobody talks about some sort of amendment to force the Federal government to apportion spending proportional to tax intake (so that places like Idaho would basically get no Federal funds, b/c they collect no taxes). No progressive proposes things like that. I would put it to you that unless you see progressives making such proposals, you can believe that they haven’t written off the red states.
Mel
@Chetan Murthy: I know that most of our fellow progressives haven’t written off the red states; I just worry deeply that some who have never really lived in a non-blue state or city might, under the constant barrage of media showing the truly awful comments and actions of Trumpsters and the terrible frustration that comes from not being able to get even an ounce of logic or reason the MAGA folk, fall into the “wash my hands of ALL of them!!” trap.
I could hear what sounded like that kind of crushing frustration in Martin’s comment, and felt it important to remind him that no matter how hard it is, there are good people in bad places, and I really believe that we have to fight for everyone that cares, even if they are the hardest to help because of location, financial challenges, etc.
I’ve seen the danger of the snowball effect that can start when anger, frustration, and overwhelming mental or physical exhaustion create a “circle the wagons, it’s us or them” mentality. I don’t think we’re anywhere near there, but I feel like it’s important to remind someone who is starting to feel that overwhelmed that it’s not “us or them”, that there are good people even in the awful, bacwards places, and it’s those people (not the ones who actively, happily do the hurting!) that are the ones who will really suffer if we circle the wagons.
Maybe it’s in part a hangover from teaching and counseling high school and college kids – I feel like asking the questions is important because sometimes a person is just blowing off steam, but sometimes they really do have a misperception that could impact the way they think about or act on an important issue in the future. It seemed to me like he was really feeling such frustration and animus towards “red state people” that he had started to equate all people in red states with Trumpers. That was my primary concern – that he not fall into the trap of assuming that ALL red state people were Trumpers and so, who cares if all the people in red states suffer, or “get what they deserve” as I think he put it.
Some years ago, I was lucky enough to be able to host Cornelius Sujik (international director of the Anne Frank Center) at the school where I taught. He said something that has stuck with me for years: “We lose good people to hopelessness in tiny bits and pieces.” I really think that is true in many cases.
On a happier note, I am so glad that you have found the place that is your true home. My nephew lives in Ca., in a small community filled with other artists and he is genuinely at peace and able to sit comfortably in his skin and in his soul there. He has found the place that both grounds him in calmness and also sets him free to be who he is. It’s a gift that he treasures (and a gift as well for an Auntie who worries about her favorite kiddos all the time!)
Steeplejack (phone)
@Mel:
Where is your nephew in California?
Dev Null
@Platonailedit: also #walkaway is said to be the calling card of the Russian 2018 midterm social media campaign.
Dev Null
Excellent post, Adam, if you don’t mind my saying so. I’ve forwarded to my private lists.
I’d love to read comments, but I wouldn’t get anything else done today.
P-Dog
Go figure I’d get the hysteria and nearly everyone not taking even a bit of what I said to heart (it is how the Dems lost 2016) as well. We’ll also see how good this strategy goes in November and also in 2020, but I don’t have high hopes for the Dems. Shrieking about Russian bots isn’t going to get you anywhere, sorry folks.
The one last thing I will address: where to walk away to? It doesn’t have to be the Republicans. But as far as I see, the only thing you can do (aside from primaries) is to sway the current Dems in office now (locally, statewide) to start standing for the middle class again instead of being purely anti-Trump. I still get calls from the DCCC and DSCC asking for money, and I’ve stopped donating since 2016, but at least everytime they call at least I air my grievances to them and tell them why I’m not donating until the Dems shape up. If enough people don’t donate money to them, it could at least send a signal that their current approach is failing.
Lalophobia
@P-Dog: Your boy was never going to be subtle enough, and now everyone is talking about how far up his ass Putin’s hand is. Mueller’s closing in. You can doggy paddle all you want baby, but you’re going to be food for the bottom feeders very, very soon.
The Moar You Know
@P-Dog: You don’t exist.
The Moar You Know
@? Martin: Your words have been well taken out of context in this thread. I get it (I also am a CA native). I can’t help anyone in Louisana, or South Carolina, or any red state. I can’t. I’m not a multibillionaire who can parachute in and collect all the good people and set them up with rentals in LA or Oakland. I can’t even set them up with tent cities in Barstow or Stockton. What I CAN do is bulletproof my state with more and better Dems (and we need desperately to get to work on our city, county and local elections as the GOP is doing better than I want them to be doing there) and hope that the US can hang together in some form so that they can come back after the inevitable and we can help.
CA has been the future of America most of my life. The rest of the country needs to step up and join the future. At least the present.
CA also needs to plan for a future without America, if it comes to that. And that’s going to be difficult, desperate, very dangerous and very, very expensive, along with some awful moral choices. We can’t take everyone. Not even a fraction of everyone. But it may come to all that. I am hoping not.
P-Dog
@Lalophobia:
You seem to assume “my boy” is Trump. That’s a mistake on your part. I have “no boy”. I only wish my former side/party would stop behaving insanely.
Msb
@ P-dog
Yeah, right.
I’m so convinced.
The use of #Walkaway was totally not a complete giveaway.
Steeplejack
Haven’t read the whole thread, but did anyone mention to P-Dog that #walkaway—“it’s how I left in 2016”—started with this video in May 2018—two months ago.
I suppose P-Dog would say, “I totally left for the same reasons way back then, and #walkaway is just a convenient way to reference them.” Yeah, right.