Whoa: @AdamSchiffCA says that Dems on the House Intel Committee wanted to bring Maria Butina and Paul Erickson in for questioning — but were told not to by House Republicans, who were worried about “tarnishing” the NRA and President Trump.
— Alex Wagner (@alexwagner) July 19, 2018
… by any means necessary!
She gave the Repubs what they were looking for: Attention from a ‘hot chick’ who publicly admired their massive weaponry, political astuteness, and general VIRTUE. In the heat of the moment, it didn’t seem important to ask what she might be looking for in return…
NEW: How did alleged Russian agent Maria Butina make inroads with conservative groups for so many years?
She learned how to speak their language – guns, freedom, God, America.
— Vera Bergengruen (@VeraMBergen) July 19, 2018
It’s hard to tell how much of the story 29-year-old Russian graduate student Maria Butina told Americans about herself for years is real.
What is clear is that in Butina, the Russian government either found or created an irresistible persona for US conservatives. The story she repeated over years of speeches and interviews — of a scrappy girl from Siberia fighting for gun rights in Russia — was carefully calibrated to show a passion for self-defense, a yearning for America’s easy access to guns, and a hint of criticism of Russia’s own laws…
People who spoke to BuzzFeed News about their interactions with her, as well as a review of her interviews, writings, and extensive social media posts, paint a picture of someone who knew how to push all the right conservative buttons.
Hers was a startlingly effective performance.
By the time she appeared on the popular radio show of evangelical author Eric Metaxas, who later endorsed Trump and served on his evangelical advisory council, her life story — or at least what she said was her life story — rolled off her tongue with practiced ease.
“My story is simple — my father is a hunter, I was born in Siberia,” she explained in the July 2015 interview, echoing previous talking points in which she often drew parallels to parts of the US, like South Dakota, where guns are “necessary for survival” to defend lives and property.
“That seems appropriate, somehow,” Metaxas interrupted, sounding delighted, when she described founding her gun rights organization in a “Moscow version of a McDonald’s,” telling her friends “we need to fight for our gun rights.”
“Wow, I just love the idea of this,” he said. “To think…because you know, those of us in America can be very parochial, we forget that the fight for liberty goes on for all around the globe in different guises.”
Butina also seemed to know exactly what a conservative evangelical audience would want to hear, earnestly speaking about the growing number of churches in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the “great history of Christian religion” that she had in common with US evangelicals, her audience.
“When we talk about Russian and American relationships, the main point is Christianity, in both countries,” she told Metaxas…
Butina adapted her message to her audience and current events. As early as 2012, Guns.com ran a piece on her organization calling for more relaxed Russian gun laws after the Sandy Hook shooting. In her conversations with older men, she reportedly often joked about her hunting skills and mentioned she had modeled in photo shoots to promote gun rights, including a glamorous spread in Russian GQ. In an interview with Fox News contributor Katie Pavlich for Townhall.com, she expressed admiration for the NRA’s youth programs.“Who is the average Russian gun owner and a member of The Right to Bear Arms today? A middle-class man with a family and a business — someone who has something to lose and to protect,” she told a group of University of South Dakota students in April 2015, before ending with a Bible verse, according to an outline of her presentation posted on social media.
In a video posted by the organizers of FreedomFest, a libertarian political event held in Las Vegas in July 2015, she suggested, with a slight grimace, that she wished to bring the US concept of freedom back home…
After Butina asked Trump that question about Russia at the town hall, his advisers reportedly watched the video and wondered how that had happened and where she had come from. Trump adviser Steve Bannon told Reince Priebus, who would eventually become Trump’s White House chief of staff, that it was odd that Trump had a fully developed answer to her question.
“Priebus agreed that there was something strange about Butina,” Isikoff and Corn reported in their book. “Whenever there were events held by conservative groups, she was always around, he told Bannon.”…
‘Course, some guys are gonna claim they were only in it for another form of ‘manliness enhancement’ — namely C.R.E.A.M…
NEWS: Rep. ROHRABACHER tells me he could be the lawmaker referenced in the Butina indicment.
Also, he says indictment is "stupid" and that it's the "deep state" trying to poison the U.S.-Russia relationship.https://t.co/CfU7pHoKWC
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) July 17, 2018
Investigating if suspected Russian spy acquired any compromising material against NRA execs, FBI crime lab unlocks seized phone, checks text messages… pic.twitter.com/G6z4NtwwUd
— zeddy (@Zeddary) July 19, 2018
rikyrah
This can be a Netflix limited series all on its own.
TenguPhule
And why the fuck are our Democrats in Congress still obeying the rules that these fuckers are not?
Do it anyway and fucking make the Republicans react to it.
FSM help us, do they need a step by step instruction manual?
TenguPhule
And not a single one of them saw what was wrong with this picture.
Baud
@TenguPhule: #hat do you expect them to do? Kidnap them?
TenguPhule
ohpleaseohpleaseohplease.
Baud
@Baud:
#hat = what
Stupid no edit on mobile.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Send the letters, alert the media. make a fucking spectacle of it.
ETA: The GOP are asshats, but they can innovate.
The Midnight Lurker
Leave her to Mueller and his people. They’ll get better answers. Anything on TV can be spun.
Baud
@TenguPhule:
The letters will be ignored and the Dems will look silly. Better to focus on GOP intransigence.
Yutsano
I would expect the conservative pastor to not know what faith Maria is talking about here, but if he wants to give a ringing endorsement to the Russian Orthodox church, have at it. It’s not like Russia is allowing missionaries.
Baud
Our side’s infatuation with performance art is really mind-boggling.
Major Major Major Major
HOOCOODANODE
Open thread? I got to announce the publication date & magazine cover for my short story this week, so that’s fun. And I got suckered into buying a mechanical keyboard for Prime Day, which I’d been low-key wanting for a while, and hey, $25 off. It arrives tonight. Should make a great cat bed. I am looking forward to typing on it! This is my life now.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Congrats, man.
The Ancient Randonneur
Sigh. So I guess all those hot young 20 somethings sending me DM’s on Twitter might not be that into me? That’s really disappointing.
Thanks for ruining my week Ms Cracker!
TenguPhule
@Baud:
I’m seeing minimal coverage of the GOP blocking Democratic efforts.
The Midnight Lurker
@The Ancient Randonneur: Depends. How much money you got?
Baud
@TenguPhule:
Blame the media. Dems don’t control them, and useless performance art will not create favorable coverage.
trollhattan
Dollars to delicious donuts a jackal or three will go for Trogdor, the Board Game. Already, what, more than 600% of their goal with a month to go. Burninate!
The Midnight Lurker
@Major Major Major Major: I’m jealous. And congratulations.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
Congrats! Got myself a Das Keyboard a couple years back and it’s worth every penny. Enjoy!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So Putin grabbed their guns and bibles, and they’re clinging on anyway?
I’ve never been to Moscow, but seems to me there was a news story a while back, isn’t the Moscow version of a McDonald’s…. a McDonald’s?
JustRuss
Gosh, whoever could have guessed that a Russian Sara Palin was actually a spy tasked with trolling American conservative groups?
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Worked for the teabaggers, the BS movement, the Bengazi, Solyandra, Dijon Mustard, what have you poutrage of the Obama years. It worked for Donald fucking Trump.
Tell me again how its useless?
Corner Stone
@Baud: I still don’t understand something. The GOP is masterful as an opposition/obstruction party. But Dems shouldn’t bother because it will never work?
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, they were there quite a while before the whole collapse of the Soviet Union thing. One can only imagine the queues.
TenguPhule
@JustRuss:
Take that back. By all accounts Ms. Butina can speak perfectly normal english.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
We’re expected to win on logic, common sense and the issues.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
Great title!
HumboldtBlue
We’re gonners either way, either Trump gets us all or we here on the North Coast simply float away.
The Midnight Lurker
@TenguPhule: Actually, the Dijon mustard thing backfired spectacularly on Hannity.
The Ancient Randonneur
@The Midnight Lurker:
I’ll bet if I wired them money to take care of their sick mother I have a a much better chance.
Baud
@TenguPhule:
@Corner Stone:
I guess I was mistaken about media bias in favor of the GOP. It’s all about the Dems not doing zanny shit.
Mike in NC
Question is how many other Butinas are out there trolling conservatives? 20? 50? 100 maybe?
NotMax
Teasing info from an ocean of redaction.
Behind closed doors, Guantánamo secret court talks about the CIA, torture and rights
Right out of spy pulp fiction (from the same article): “The interrogator/instructor, identified as X3L….”
Major Major Major Major
@trollhattan: My old boss had one of those, it seemed great. I just got a Logitech, but it’s my first foray, and again, on sale. I figured I spend enough damn time typing…
@zhena gogolia: Thanks!
The Midnight Lurker
@The Ancient Randonneur: Or you could help out that poor Nigerian prince instead.
Corner Stone
@Baud: I think the category error is characterizing forceful opposition as performance art.
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Opened up when the Soviet Union was still a thing. I visited Moscow on a school trip in 1990, and the line outside McDonalds was shorter than the line outside Lenin’s Tomb but only barely.
jl
Can already buy Trump baby blimp t-shirts, posters and table top items.
But you can’t buy your personal mini Trump baby blimp.
Where is the miracle of capitalism, folks?
I’ll post on this regularly and do a search a few times a week in hopes a cookie picks it up. I’ll get an offer as soon as it is out.
Unless we can get a BJ crowdfund going.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
At the very least it would give us ammunition to start working the refs on their hypocrisy. We’ve already seen what happens when we try to use logic, common sense and basic self-interest to get any traction.
Frankensteinbeck
@TenguPhule:
Because the newspeople who show this stuff to the public go looking for ways to make the farthest right look normal and anything even slightly left look insane… or merely nonexistent. See: Articles about how well Nazis dress, and constant expeditions to the Trump heartland. What works for them does not work for us. We are not held to the same rules.
Calouste
I’ve seen a couple of photos of Butina, including one from a 2012 article, and to me she looks 6-7 years older than her stated age. Does anyone else think that? Of course her targets would be more likely to fall for a 22-year-old than a 22-year-old, as well as 29 being a bit old for a student.
Hobbes83
@TenguPhule: The media is wired for Republicans and conservatives. It always has been, and always will be.
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck: So we have to go with VSE’s solution instead?
debbie
@rikyrah:
I was thinking about a chalkboard in the Glenn Beck tradition. So much to keep straight!
Baud
@Corner Stone: Obviously, Adam Shiff is being forceful, which is why know about this in the first place. My beef is with TenguPhule’s comment that Dems should engage in futile acts that will just make them look even weaker in the hopes that it leads to better media exposure.
joel hanes
@Major Major Major Major:
mechanical keyboard
You’ll never be able to go back to rubber dome switches.
I’m typing this on a Northgate Omnikey that’s at least twenty five years old.
At work I use a Mathias QuietPro with Alps switches.
Most inexpensive keyboards feel like they were made by Mattel.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Cherry switches? Red, blue or brown?
Getting increasingly apprehensive about the Kindle ordered to take to Mom. Ordered it on Monday, still no confirmation of shipping, and I scoot skyward this coming Tuesday night.
The Midnight Lurker
@dmsilev: Back in the day, the Soviets would pack Lenin’s Tomb with shills when the American tour groups came by. It was hilarious.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Congratulations on the short story!
Teddys Person
@Baud:
Finished that thought.
p.a.
Well the forces of good may prevail because America’s fascists have a greater proportion of morons than Germany’s did. And the work still needs to be done.
But they’ve still successfully gained power and seeded the judiciary for a generation.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I had the same thought.
@dmsilev: I saw a picture of that the other day on the mood:vintage twitter account, which by the way is a fantastic account. That link just goes to the account since I don’t know where that tweet went.
@NotMax: brown
NotMax
@dmsilev
People don’t get slipped a few kopeks to stand in line in front of McDonald’s.
;)
trollhattan
@Calouste:
Something seems “off” in pretty much every photo I’ve seen of her, but I’m going with my gut sense she has an Elizabeth Jenningslike ability to be a human chameleon.
Also wonder if she gets many second looks at home, but my perception has been altered by this Russian guy who occasionally posts his model portraits on a photo forum.
Wonder why the blog isn’t inundated by “Meet Russian Lady” web ads right now?
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
I love my Das Keyboard. Clicky IBM PC memories. I think efgoldman has one too.
Frankensteinbeck
@TenguPhule:
I believe @Baud put it well. While Democrats should be vocal, they ARE being vocal, and you rarely hear about it. They’re also conducting investigations of their own, but don’t have the power the majority has. Stunt posturing is not going to help.
Jay
@Baud:
The Democratic Party has a minority on the Commitee. A majority and the assent of the chair is required to subpena anyone.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: Thanks! Very excited.
Duane
@The Ancient Randonneur: A woman I met in Walgreens spoke with a Russian accent. She was very friendly. Probably after my state secrets.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Right now everything they do is futile because they’re in the minority. But if you want to rally and energize the base, the base needs something to rally around. There is nothing more demoralizing then seeing the party’s representatives not even try. Its why the Republicans kept submitting all those crazy bills that never passed, it let their voters see that “yes, I am dedicated to your cause! I may have failed this time, but next time…..”
There’s a reason why “walkaway” and “what difference does it make, they’re all the same” gets traction. Voters have short memories and need to be constantly reminded about the crucial differences.
sanjeevs
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-top-fbi-cybersecurity-officials-to-retire-1532036330?mod=hp_lead_pos9
M31
all this talk of keyboards makes me want to buy an adapter and dig out my old Apple Extended Keyboard II, one of the finest ever made
jl
@Frankensteinbeck: I think Democrats should focus on GOTV for election. That should be the first priority. Then on substantive issues, including Trump’s subservience to Putin, and damage Trump is doing with EU, trade war and NATO.
PR moves designed to gin up outrage over every GOP maneuver should be lower priority,
For example, making a fuss about House move to day to shut down further efforts on protecting election integrity more important than outrage over GOP calling or not calling witnesses some months ago.
I hate to agree with Baud 2020!, but here we are.
@TenguPhule: My disagreement with your comment is that I think voter base is more likely to be energized by substantive issues; complaining about what the GOP did or not do a few months ago, whether they are being treated ‘fairly’ (Trump has stunk up that approach), etc.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
its a tweet. And worded so that it seems to imply the Democrats complied with the bullshit. That’s not forceful.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Bring on the giant puppet heads, though in this case it might be appropriate.
TenguPhule
@p.a.:
mandatory sterilization.
Origuy
@dmsilev: There are McDonald’s all over Moscow. I didn’t go to the one near Red Square, but I went to one a little ways from the Pushkin Museum, off the tourist trail. It was packed with Russians.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Its too late now. At the time the GOP obstructed was when it should have been done. We’re only finding out about it now, when its too late to do anything about it. This has been a consistent theme for the last 3 years or so.
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck:
We’ll never know now because we only found out about this well after the time anything could have been tried.
Jay
Deplorables, yup,
Gullibillies at the top, yup.
James E Powell
@TenguPhule:
I think we’re in better shape now, with her under arrest, than we would have been with her leaving the country after Democrats’ fruitless attempts to get her testimony before the committee.
jl
@TenguPhule: I think big turnouts and big elections wins are the only thing that can get us out of this fix. Dems should focus on achieving those.
I agree with you that Dems have a knack for coming off as weak and ineffective. It makes no sense, but that is bad for energizing for a lot of voters, triggers the wrong part of the lizard brain we call carry around inside us.
The Thin Black Duke
@TenguPhule: Oh, I get it. White voters need to be entertained.
germy
It’s not about the treason, the money laundering or the voter suppression.
It’s about the friends they made along the way.
rikyrah
The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) Tweeted:
A staffer for GOP Senate candidate Corey Stewart was a participant in a month-long group chat with people planning the next white supremacist Unite the Right rally https://t.co/9DFNEoSQDe https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1020055196813217792?s=17
NotMax
@jl
Yup. Inviting people to vote against something is less than half a loaf unless accompanied by offering them something to vote for.
@HumboldtBlue
One word: Natatorium.
;)
Corner Stone
I wonder if the Women’s March was performance art? Maybe March For Our Lives? Or showing up at airports for muslims or border checkpoints for immigrants?
We’ve been getting our ass kicked since 2010, minimum. I’m not sure where we’re supposed to start that’s acceptable.
Redshift
If wingnuts had any brains, her arrest and exposure would make them rethink the sincerity of “Putin is a great guy who wants to fight alongside us for guns and Jesus against the godless homo-libruls!”
But if they had any brains (or more specifically, if they didn’t always value ideology over evidence), they wouldn’t have gotten scammed by her in the first place.
Gin & Tonic
@joel hanes: At work I have an old IBM TrackPoint keyboard (the one with that little eraser-like pointing thing) that they’ll have to pry from my cold dead hands. I don’t have a mouse at all.
trollhattan
Jim Jordan sure is a snowflake.
“Jeepers?” He think he’s Willard “Mitt” Fucking Romney?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I hate to agree with you again, but….
TenguPhule
@The Thin Black Duke:
“Why bother to march for Civil Rights, its just performance art to entertain the White voters.” //s
Either demonstrations mean something or they don’t.
Yarrow
Have no Republicans ever seen a James Bond movie? Attractive Russian honeypot is practically a cliche.
TenguPhule
@James E Powell:
The two did not have to be mutually exclusive. Picking her up when she tried to run after being notified would have been excellent optics.
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
Congratulations M4! Very happy for you.
James E Powell
@jl:
But we need like six of those in a row. Our team is only good for one of those every decade or so.
NotMax
@trollhattan
A vast ‘left dressing’ conspiracy?
Need new taps on those shoes of yours, Jordan.
Major Major Major Major
@MomSense: danke!
Jay
@Yarrow:
Their penii kept getting in the way,…..
?BillinGlendaleCA
@James E Powell:
FDR would like a word with you.
John Revolta
@Calouste:
FTFY
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I nominate Zombie FDR for 2020.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Major Major Major Major: That looks great!
chris
@Major Major Major Major: Congrats on the story!
And thanks for the twitter account. The hard drive that goes with your new keyboard is on it’s way.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The fresh Northern California air and pure mountain waters clearly provided your brain some beneficial ventilation, rejuvenated your vital bodily essence, and has clarified your thinking.
The Thin Black Duke
@TenguPhule: I’m 63 years old and I’ve seen black people put in the work to get shit done. It’s hard, it’s not glamorous and more often than not, you lose more than you win. But shit gets done. Abbie Hoffman circus stunts are nonsense. Aaron Sorkin-scripted monologues are forgotten as soon as you change the channel. The brothers and sisters who marched for civil rights when I was a child know and are marching today know what to do to get shit done. But thanks for the advice.
James E Powell
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Those days are gone forever, over a long time ago. Since 1968, I think.
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
Bitte schon.
I can’t make the umlaut work. My phone autocorrects to school when I try.
Major Major Major Major
@chris: heh, I saw that one today.
Matt
@trollhattan: Shorter Jim Jordan: “Ya got me – I was fucking those hawt bois too”
The Midnight Lurker
@The Thin Black Duke: Amen, sir.
Boussinesque
@TenguPhule: would vote for.
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
You will not regret it. Mechanical keyboards are so much better than membrane keyboards. They also last very well. I just wish I could find a good wireless mechanical keyboard. They seem to be targeting gamers, who don’t want the extra latency from the wireless connection.
Jay
@James E Powell:
That’s because the Democrat’s:
– don’t fix everything, barely fix anything
– listen to the deficit scolds,
– don’t clean out the rot,
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17581546/donald-trump-russia-collusion-elite-impunity-immunity-torture-iran-contra-financial-crisis
?BillinGlendaleCA
@James E Powell: Democrats held a House majority until 1994.
jl
@James E Powell: Our world simulation has fallen into an infinite loop. Just have to wait. Might take a while, though.
Steeplejack
Cacti
I wonder how many evangelical leaders had sexy time with her.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: More likely delirium from not staying hydrated on my walk from the Sacramento River back to the Capitol.
Doug R
@Calouste:
Well, apparently she does own a furniture store in Siberia, so she could be older but consider most of her years are Russian years.
Maybe years in Red Sparrow school don’t count?
Dan B
@Baud: TP and CS both have points. Dem’s following governing protocols is not news. Complaining about “the other side” is not news, won’t sell copy, won’t grab eyeballs.
You also have points. How do you get coverage when the majority of media is controlled or strongly influenced by conservativ ideology? And doing nutty stuff can turn the story line into “There they go again.”
What’s missing is a well funded progressive/liberal communications infrastructure. The right, sending a leftward shift in the public, ado pop ted the Powell Doctrine and has built a huge well coordinated communications behemoth. The left has relied on academia, public media, and a rapidly disappearing liberal media.
We need to learn what works. And relearn what worked in the past. Rosa Parks was the result of a well planned media campaign. The lunch counter sit ins were a gripping story. ACT UP was a relentless campaign of rudeness and media genic actions.
We need carefully planned media strategies. We need to understand “story” and how it propels uncomfortable facts, and that facts need emotional rocket fuel not polite delivery. And visuals. Bloody Sunday was considered a crushing defeat by the organizers but the visuals blew through the bland storyline that the media offered.
Right now the Democrats come across as weak because they keep speaking up angrily but take no risks. Trump risks everything with his embrace of despots and leads the news. We don’t need “zany” actions. We need compelling actions that are simple and unexpected, that demonstrate courageous risk taking.
Politics as usual is over. Our MSM will not save this country. The Democratic leadership needs to act as though this is reality, a new and frightening reality and a defining moment for this era.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cacti: All of them, Katie.
Yarrow
@Calouste: 29 isn’t old for a graduate student, though.
@Jay: They just think they’re smarter than they are and won’t get caught.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Dan B: I think you’re agreeing more with Baud than CS and TP. You’re correct, we should take risks, but they need to be carefully planned.
TenguPhule
@Dan B: Well said. Our current media consultants are shitty. Probably because they’re paid no matter what happens.
ruemara
@Calouste: That lack of melanin can lead to intense aging in some. And I doubt she’s really 29.
@Cacti: Just heard Santorum might have been dipping his wick. Where’s Dan Savage?
piratedan
@The Thin Black Duke: and from everything I’ve seen, people are indeed working hard to get shit done, it’s just that very few outlets that are traditional (or were considered to be traditional forms of getting the news out) are actually covering it. If you look at how the ground game is going and how the majority of the special elections have gone plus the polling I get the feeling that people are ready to make their stand at the ballot box, in short thanks to all of the thankless hard work that is involved in getting the ground game going.
I understand what TP wants, he wants our side to have an impact on those traditional forms that always “used to play fair”, now the narratives are set by those in the minority (politically speaking) and watching endless hours of people like Andrea Fucking Mitchell do the “both sides tango” while this shit goes down is discouraging to say the least.
Best way to work off that frustration is to simply get involved. Actually go out there and make a difference. Sow some happiness and work with people and help others. You’ll feel better about yourself TP and actually make a difference, even if its a small limited one, its better than sitting at the keyboard and being frustrated about people who actually are on your side (meaning your fellow commentariat) and are doing what they can with their time, money or both to help us realize our ideals.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: No shit. Also, our side’s ignorance about how the American political system *actually works*.
ruemara
@Steeplejack: Hollywood twitter has been killing it.
The Thin Black Duke
@piratedan: Well said, sir. Thank you.
Jay
@Dan B:
They also have to realize there hasn’t been a “bipartizan” Rethug in decades. Half measures to get a handfull of Rethug votes in the House and Senate costs them whole districts at the polls.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Closest thing I’ve seen of that in the last 2 years is some of our reps being arrested during the Children internment camps. We’re running out of time.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: yep, there are some exciting things happening in my life!
? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?
I love this image. Is she a true believer in Putinism or is she just cynical?
Corner Stone
@Miss Bianca:
I think we’ve had a master class in how it *actually works* over the last several years.
A Ghost To Most
Whoopi opens a can of whoop ass on Jeanine Pirro
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: What would you suggest?
TenguPhule
@piratedan:
I’ve tried. Still am, but there’s limits to what I’m allowed to do now unless I want to say fuck it all. So I come here to vent and avoid “fuck it all”.
Miss Bianca
@The Thin Black Duke:
Sadly, yes
MagdaInBlack
Obligatory Warren Z. ” Well, how was I to know she was with the Russians too? “
chris
@Roger Moore:
I know next to nothing about this but I do know that there’s a busy mechanical keyboard subreddit with lots of enthusiasts including builders. Might be worth a try.
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: I was 29 when I started law school.
TS (the original)
@trollhattan:
And the GOP with massive help from the media & a couple of dems forced Al Franken to resign for so much less. I’ll never understand how RW politicians can lie with impunity while dems are admonished for being truthful.
And it always comes back to – Billy Bush lost his job & trump was elected president* Takes massive media and russian interference to achieve that outcome.
Corner Stone
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I think you may want to re-read what Dan B wrote.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca: We keep expecting them to follow the rules.
Lucy-football. Kick Lucy instead of the football.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
I disagree. I think it’s probably better for publicity value today than it would have been back then. Back then, people would have said, “The Democrats are pitching a fit because the Republicans won’t let them interview two random shmoes I’ve never heard of. BFD!” By talking about it now, people get the idea that the Democrats actually knew these people were worth investigating before the indictments hit, and the Republicans knew they were worth protecting. That seems like a much better message to me.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: I was pretty much the baby when I started grad school at 23, most of my fellow students were in their late 20’s or early 30’s.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The House and Senate could stop pretending to be polite to the Republicans across the aisle. I understand they have to inside Congress sessions to avoid censure due to the rules, but outside that? Fuck civility. Fuck the baseball games, the comity between staff, the traditional backscratching and dealmaking. Republicans made this glass shard bed of hostility, they can damn well lie in it. Social Cold War their asses in public, make the shunning official party standard instead of just random citizens.
Drive a molten silver stake through bipartisanship.
ruemara
@A Ghost To Most: Hang on. I need an electron microscope to find my violin of sympathy.
kindness
I remember when I first heard about this Russian girl who runs a Gun Rights Org in Russia and she was making friends with the NRA & the usual suspects. I found it very strange. In Russia, guns are illegal without special permits. Hard to obtain permits. Whatever story I was reading did mention she had a rich Russian benefactor helping her by contributing to the NRA. Still, it made no sense. A gun rights organization in Russia? I thought that had to be a bogus front organization and didn’t give it more thought.
Thank the FSM our political opponents are so greedy and stupid. If they weren’t such bumbling idiots we would be a lot worse screwed than we are.
Corner Stone
@TS (the original): That was a tough one. But at least we captured the high ground.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Corner Stone: I did, I suggest you do so as well.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: I’m not sure what that will accomplish other than Democrats being portrayed as uncivil again in the media.
Corner Stone
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I did. ISTM as though you short circuited some of what his meaning was. But, wevs.
Jay
@TenguPhule:
Yup
Doug R
@Gin & Tonic:
I always felt a little dirty trying out that eraser/mouse thing.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
When you stop throwing your tantrum you’ll remember that THE MINORITY IN THE HOUSE HAS ONLY THE POWER THAT THE MAJORITY ALLOWS. It takes a majority of a committee to issue a subpoena.
The reverse will be true if Dems take control in November (January)
Chip Daniels
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The Republicans learned long ago that you don’t force the media to treat you nicely, by being nice to them and playing by their rules.
You get scalps, you get firings, you get them demoted and get the right people installed as reporters, on air talent, producers and editors.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: *grin* I think Whoopi Goldberg just did that. Opened up a fine can of Whoopi-ass on what’s her nose Pirro, from what I heard.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Our Senators and Representatives need to shift their mindset of Republicans from “colleague” to “mortal enemy”.
And our media needs to be worked on. Beatings must commence until the referees improve.
Waldo
@Yarrow:
Attractive? To a lonely, middle-aged GOPer, maybe. I’m seeing Heathers-era Christian Slater in drag.
James E Powell
@Baud:
Produces a kind of narcotizing dysfunction.
A Ghost To Most
@Miss Bianca: m
You got Hoffman-ed, baby.
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
They are gonna get portrayed that way anyway.
Washington runs on access. Deny them access, ( media, rethugs, lobbiests, cronies, plutocrats).
Hang the dead babies, the missing girls, the Nazi’s around their necks each and every day. Shame the media every chance they get with “the biggest scandal in our Nations History and you ignored it to write 9 million words on emails!
Doug R
@Dan B: Telling someone of power to leave your restaurant is taking a risk. Has the red hen reopened yet?
bluehill
@kindness: That’s an interesting point. I can’t imagine that Putin would allow the same gun laws in Russia as we have here out of fear of arming the opposition. If that premise is accurate, then the whole gun rights movement was just an elaborate front to get to the NRA and evangelicals.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman:
Has not stopped the Republicans from breaking them in any manner whatsoever. Although to be fair, that had much to do with “look forward, not back.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m all for fucking civility. I”ve always liked snarky, even surly old pols. I had a soft spot for Bob Dole until he threw himself into MAGAism as his last act in public life. But I am hard pressed to believe that there are hordes of McCaskill leaners waiting for her to announce that she won’t eat at Le Diplomate till they 86 Roy Blount. McCaskill drives me crazy–has since she bragged about shrinking the stimulus as proof of her fiscal conservatism–, as does Heitkamp, as does Manchin, as probably would Donnelly if I could ever remember he exists. And I really hope their consensus-seeking, preening moderate asses all get re-elected.
Roger Moore
@chris:
Actually, a quick search suggests there are a lot more wireless mechanical keyboards available than the last time I checked. There are even ones from big manufacturers, like Logitech. I will have to spend a bit more time looking.
TenguPhule
@bluehill:
it is.
TenguPhule
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bring back earmarks. Half the solution right there.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
Well, see, there was an election, which we fecklessly lost. Didn’t just happen “click” at a random time.
Everything else you mentioned happened with a RWNJ majority in at least one house,
All Wilmer proved is that he’s as good a grifter as any RWNJ. And it had nothing whatsoever with congressional majorities.
Corner Stone
@bluehill:
A transparently bogus money laundering/funneling effort that was spotted right away by all the Evangelical grifters from America. Putin won’t allow a group of female rockers to sing bad lyrics about him in public. But they are going to start selling firearms on the open market? Hmmm…
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: The issue was favorable media coverage. They all got it.
A Ghost To Most
@Roger Moore:
None can compete with the keyboard on the original IBM PC (or better yet, an IBM Selectric).
/Old computer geek
efgoldman
@Corner Stone:
When they have the majority in AT LEAST ONE HOUSE, and the president is a Dem. Not the current circumstance.
Christ some of you people have let derangement syndrome drive facts from your heads.
TenguPhule
Via Wapo.
Sadly, I have zero confidence in this program given that its Sessions’s DOJ. He’s been there long enough for the taint to trickle down.
ETA: Expecting a “Russians targeting Republicans on behalf of Democrats” announcement.
bluehill
@TenguPhule: Which then gives you some idea of how long the long game has been with Putin and maybe his predecessors. All of these agents embedded in different areas to be activated at the right time. Who knows where else they are. I hope we’ve done the same in Russia.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: Unfortunately, the media is how you get your message out. Now what might work is going to local media.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: What the fuck does opposition party mean to you, you fucking gobshite motherfucker?
Aimai
@TenguPhule: oh christ shut up shut up shut up. You learn nothing, know nothing, achieve nothing!
TenguPhule
@efgoldman:
I recall they abused the fiilibuster to great extent before we lost House and Senate.
Jeffro
@The Ancient Randonneur:
Wait…you too???
What are the odds?
NotMax
@A Ghost To Most
Reminded of the short, sad life of the IBM Peanut. And its chiclet keyboard, powered by four AA batteries.
TenguPhule
@Aimai: I have no idea what that is supposed to mean in context to what you’re replying to.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think a slow economic recovery and traditional midterm voting patterns (older and whiter) had more to do with it. And to a lesser extent people like that stupid woman who told Obama she was “exhausted” by defending him after six months in office, for which she got a “Medal of Reasonableness” from ol’ Lincoln Tunnel Stewart at the Rally About Nothing.
Major Major Major Major
I miss the mobile pie filter.
Jeffro
@JustRuss:
You know Sarah’s (grifter) wheels have to be turning, wondering if she should go the Butina route or the Stormy route to shore up those retirement finances…
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Well, there are all those color-coded charts ‘n’ stuff lying around gathering dust.
:)
Jay
@Doug R:
It reopened on July 6th, and gift certificate sales and other acts of fiscal kindness allowed the owners to pay staff during the shutdown and make a profit.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: They did and Harry Reid got rid of the filibuster for Executive appointees and non-Supreme Court nominations.
A Ghost To Most
@NotMax: It gave chiclet keyboards a bad name before we knew what chiclet keyboards were.
Wasn’t it called PC Jr.?
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
Threat level Orange?
Roger Moore
@efgoldman:
They were actually pretty effective at obstructing when they controlled neither the presidency nor either house of Congress but were able to get just enough votes for a filibuster in the Senate. Of course the rules have been changed since then to make it harder to obstruct appointments in the Senate, but the Republicans certainly managed to slow down a lot of the Democrats’ key legislation even when they had nothing.
Of course the Democrats have been surprisingly effective at doing the same for the past year and a half. The Democrats have managed to hold the Republicans to one major piece of legislation since January 2017, which is a far better record of obstruction than they get credit for. Can you imagine how bad things would be if the Democrats hadn’t been extremely effective in stalling Republican legislation under Trump?
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Sinclair? really?
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA: And McConnell changed the rules to prevent the holds and blue slips from being effective.
So much for civility.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: Ya got any other outlets? They’re all not Sinclair owned.
ETA: If you say “freeze out the media”, how do you get folk to listen to what you have to say, stand on a street corner with a bullhorn?
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: My son started grad school at 30.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
To be fair we actually owe that to the Paul Ryan Rule in the House and the Teabagging Caucus. They could have passed a lot more evil shit if they weren’t infighting over just how evil it had to be.
Platonailedit
Defend from whom? Fellow whites?
NotMax
@A Ghost To Most
Officially, the IBM PCjr.
In the vulgate (and the tech press), was impishly dubbed Peanut.
raven
@Calouste: I finished my doctorate when I was 50.
TenguPhule
@Platonailedit:
Stealth Mexican Predators and Black Aliens. //
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: See Roger’s comment @184.
A Ghost To Most
@A Ghost To Most: Ah, nicknamed Peanut. I didn’t remember that.
gene108
@TS (the original):
Franken had to go. He was becoming the “what about” guy. Roy Moore diddled teenage girls. Well, what about Franken?
Republicans get away with corruption because the expectation of what a Republican will do in office has hit rock bottom with Trump, the cynicism of McConnell grabbing power at all costs, and Boehner and Ryan killing everything in the House.
Democrats want to be the party of good government, our standards are higher. Also, our wold be voters respond better to us, when government meets their needs so we can’t get into the nihilism RepublicAnd have.
Jeffro
@Yarrow:
Well, yeah, but in their case, the hooker really did like them – they made a connection, swear to goodness!
LOL
NotMax
@TenguPhule
“Must remember to bring the plastic sheeting and duct tape when I go vote.”
:)
Davebo
@The Ancient Randonneur: All of them are into me for real!
I know because they always say “No Credit Card Required”!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Platonailedit: Reminds of the above-mentioned Heidi Heitkamp voting against Manchin-Toomey (IIRC were the lead sponsors) because semi-automatic weapons were part of the North Dakota heritage. I thought that was sugar beets, the Corn Palace and a statewide public banking the old Norwegian farmers wanted like back home, ya know. But then I have never set foot in North Dakota.
Davebo
@Yarrow: Thing is, she isn’t really all that attractive.
TenguPhule
@gene108:
No, no he didn’t. He got swiftboated and nobody learned their fucking lesson.
Meanwhile, Republican sex predators are loud and proud in office and I don’t see the repeated unending condemnations coming from the Democrats about this.
Bare hands, gun fight. Not working as intended.
Davebo
@Jeffro: “She kissed me on the lips!”
Shana
@Calouste: 29 may seem old for a graduate student in many places, but DC is full of young people who come for a first job, work a few years to decide what they REALLY want to do and then go to one of the many local schools for a Master’s or phD. Many government or other employers also help pay for a degree provided you continue working for them for a period after you’ve earned the degree.
TenguPhule
@Davebo:
Remember that those guys have limited choices.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Corn Palace is in South Dakota.
Corner Stone
Sally Q Yates on TRMS show tonight. May have to tune in again for that one.
efgoldman
@Doug R:
Can she see Palin’s house from there?
TenguPhule
@gene108:
Execution without trial doesn’t make that case.
The Midnight Lurker
@TenguPhule: Thank you.
A Ghost To Most
@NotMax:
I was one happy techie to have an IBM PC (and especially Personal Editor) to work on the assembly code for our network switches.
I liked the editor so much that when I transitioned to working on UNIX machines, I wrote an X/Motif full screen editor (called MrEd) that included the best features of PE. As far as I know, GE is still using it. I
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Goddammit.
Shana
@M31: Hey, I have my dad’s old Olivetti portable typewriter if you’re interested. (joking)
Corner Stone
@gene108:
Bullshit. What did that buy us? The permanent defensive crouch has been really useful over the last 30 years. Let’s see who asks Kavanaugh any questions that stick when he comes before the Senate.
Major Major Major Major
@A Ghost To Most: cool!
TenguPhule
VA admin turned into a partisan Trump stronghold.
I’m sure this will end well.//
gene108
@TenguPhule:
Who the fuck did Republicans subpoena from the Obama admin in 2009 and 2010? No one.
Pelosi’ House got shit done, where bills went to the Senate die from abuse of the filibuster.
Democrats have kept a full on repeal of the ACA at bay, because of the filibuster. Right now the Senate filibuster rules are keeping the full onslaught of right-wing craziness from fully manifesting.
Shana
@Doug R: I think they were closed for a couple of weeks and have reopened.
NotMax
@A Ghost To Most
A fun reverse nostalgia look back.
TenguPhule
@gene108:
Technically this is only because the Republican House and Senate can’t agree on just how evil and crazy the final product will look like. That fundamental disagreement is the main cause.
Corner Stone
@gene108:
This is really disingenuous.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
I think this is much less true than your perception. For one thing, they’ve been stalled on just about everything that they can’t pass through reconciliation because Schumer has been very good at holding the Senate together and the threat of the filibuster has meant hardly any of the evil stuff that has made it through the House has made it into law. On the stuff that has been eligible for reconciliation, the Democratic obstruction has been a major driver of the Republican infighting. They know they have to thread the needle in the Senate because they can’t afford to lose more than one or two votes- again because Schumer has held the caucus together- so they wind up fighting over just how much evil they can cram in before losing those votes. Yes, we see the Republican infighting, but it wouldn’t matter if the Democrats weren’t able to vote no in lockstep.
Millard Filmore
@Waldo:
Maybe my lack of social skills is showing through, but my reaction to her flirts would be “why is she acting so strange?”
gene108
@Corner Stone:
Bought us Senator Doug Jones (D-AL).
You know the second Roy Moore’s kiddie diddling became public, which is what flipped the election, the Republican refrain would have been “what about Franken?”, which would have created enough noise to set up a “both sides are the same” theme, and discourage people to flip to Jones.
And don’t tell me they are not the same thing, because despite the fact you can do nuance and I can do nuance, when Fox News, Rush Limbaug, et. al. start teeing off on the “what about Franken” question a bunch of false equivalence would have been drawn and amplified in the MSM. I can picture NPR doing a segment on “Roy Moore mlosted teenage girls, but Democrats, and his opponent Doug Jones, have their own sexual harassment problem with Al Franken”.
Doug Jones is worth it.
Steeplejack
@A Ghost To Most:
Trust me, the Das Keyboard feels almost exactly like the original IBM PC keyboard. And I say “almost” only because it has been about 25 years since the last time I touched one of my IBM keyboards. Plus you get two USB 3.0 ports and volume controls.
There are probably other good mechanical keyboards available, but I am satisfied with this one. Spendy but definitely worth it.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
I don’t think we’re disagreeing here. Part of the reason that Schumer has been able to corrall even assholes like Manchin is that the House Republicans have to make sure any bill that passes on their side is evil enough that the Teabaggers will vote for it.
TenguPhule
@gene108:
They did try it.
And there is no evidence that the whataboutism was mitigating Roy Moore’s crimes.
We lost Franken for nothing.
Dan B
@TenguPhule: I agree with you but jl and baud seem to have no idea what you’re talking about here.
It has been apparent for some time that the GOP would obstruct an investigation at some time. Was a plan in place with a strategy that would avoid wasting effort on obscure inside government maneuverings and focus on some easy to understand actions by the GOP? Apparently not.
Should we guve up on strategic communications and focus the majority of our efforts on turning out voters? You and I believe that both are necessary and essentially linked. People want to vote for a winner, or at least fir people who take heroic measures.
Of course we have to pick our battles wisely but conceding the public forum has rarely met with success. Mass communications levers story and emotion. Issues get to ride along, if we’re lucky.
A Ghost To Most
@Steeplejack:
That is high praise indeed.
I will keep it in mind.
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Compliant media. There’s some real journalists out there and then, there are gobshite enablers and normalizers.
As Roger Moore pointed out, the Democratic Party has done a pretty good job killing some of the Rethug agenda, Funny that, not in the news. Gotta go to twitter to find a Dem voice regularly reported, 99% of the time.
The Village is a village. They all mix, mingle, hang out in the same bars. When an entrepid FTFNYT reporter drops into the bar to repair from the exhaustive travails of their latest Cletis Safari, and say’s “Hi Bob”, you Dershewitz them. You pull your kid from their kids softball team, you disinvite them to dinner. If they ask why, well the answer’s pretty simple, you have no time or place for Nazi normalizers.
They rely on The Village being a “civil” place in order to do their stenography. Make it uncivil.
In the link I posted upthread, Kissenger was working for LBJ at the same time he was ratfucking with Nixon to kill the peace talks and the Democratic Presidential Campaign. Afterwards, even when it was known, he was still fete’d by Democrats and Democratic Presidents.
Social Scientists note that when The State becomes unresponsive, the first acts by an aggreived citizenry, is shaming and shunning,…..
Steeplejack
@Roger Moore:
Maybe start by checking out the Logitech G613 or the Corsair K63. Both around $100.
raven
@Jay: fuck lbj
L85NJGT
@bluehill:
He isn’t willing to arm his base, because he doesn’t trust provincial dingbats.
Dan B
@TenguPhule: I wonder when strategic communications has been stunt posturing. Seems like we’re talking about two different things. Labeling courageous media savvy action as stunts is self defeating. The Democratic Party has been piss poor at media and courage, with some notable exceptions, for decades, with unsurprising results, including the feeling among many progressives that we’re defeated before we try.
gene108
@Corner Stone:
No it is not disingenuous. The shot at repealing the ACA was done through reconciliation because Mitch can’t get 60 votes to pass a repeal via regular order. The House voted 50+ times to repeal the ACA between 2011 and 2017. So far, with Republicans in control there has been one stalled attempt and one failed attempt. Right now the filibuster is working to our advantage, because otherwise there would be repeal attempt after repeal attempt.
@TenguPhule:
Look at the tax bill for rich fuckwads. They agree on enough to be able to be able Tom ram through major legislation in a hurry. They would have done fetal personhood bills and other shit, if they could get it through the Senate.
TenguPhule
@Dan B: We do policy, not branding. //
/old Democratic joke
Roger Moore
@Steeplejack:
Yeah, I saw those. I guess I hadn’t checked for a while, and the manufacturers stepped up while I wasn’t looking. Of course I have a wired mechanical keyboard, so it seems like it would be a shame to spend a bunch of money to replace it…
Dan B
@The Thin Black Duke: Entertained? MLK was not entertaining. He and 9ther civil rights leaders had a robust communications and branding strategy. Their actions were public and the media was kept informed.
Corner Stone
@gene108: Of course it is disingenuous. It took three R Senators to stop the outright repeal of ACA. They’ve been killing it softly ever since but the D’s sticking together had less impact than two female Senators and one ugly, vengeful thumb by McCain at the end.
Steeplejack
@Platonailedit:
Bears. Didn’t Betsy DeVos say it was bears?
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Mitchell, SD! I’ve been there/been dragged there by the ‘rents. Yeehaw.
gene108
@Dan B:
Hillary laid it out very simply in debate. Donald Trump is Putin’s puppet. No one took her seriously enough.
Corner Stone
@Jay:
DC may be “wired” for Republicans by elite media but the actual area is overwhelmingly D. Make it uncivil, indeed.
Dan B
@Corner Stone: I’d say glass half full. There is no way to know how much influence these have had on the public but it’s a lit less than zero. The problem I see is the weakness of progressive media coordination. There are so many protests on so many issues that the public is a bit lost. We don’t have a way to pick the important battles. Get some wins and then get to the rest.
And then we have near misses when BLM’s message went a tiny bit anti cop. It felt like the Anti-War movement when fringe groups went violent. Many were coopted by CointelPro. I encountered many of those loons. But those are constant challenges with bottom up movements. Unless there’s a strong and strategic group (used to be unions and the Democrats..) it gets off course.
Cheryl Rofer
In a waning thread, I’ll note that a double “i” is not necessary in Butina’s first name. It results from a particular kind of transliteration of the Я (pronounced ya) vowel. We’re writing in English, and Maria is the name in English.
#AdvancedPedantry
gene108
@Corner Stone:
Why haven’t they tried again and again and again? They voted 50+ time to repeal i the House over a six year period. That is a bit more than 8 repeal attempts a year on average.
My point is the Senate filibuster is working to our advantage now. We aren’t going to stop everything, and we dodged a bullet, as you say, but they aren’t attempting to repeal the ACA every week.
A Ghost To Most
In case you need a primer on America’s leading christian fascist organizations
Project Blitz is a personal favorite.
Dan B
@The Thin Black Duke: Part of the work was strategic communications. Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin were clowns. They had media savvy but did not have any strategy to communicate to a broad audience. Their target audience was small, privileged white kids. They read Saul Alinsky and missed the point that shaming your opponent was a part of strategy, not the whole shebang. They shamed but did not tell an emotional story. Civil Rights leaders they needed to shame the racist institutions but illuminate stories that would reach beyond black people with universal human stories.
Corner Stone
@gene108: They are killing the ACA on the side. The reason they have not yet fully repealed the ACA is simple. The far right and the far far right can not agree to terms on what is horrible enough to cast a vote on. That is the only reason. It’s not Democrats stopping them, it’s the fracture of their own caucus in the House and Senate.
Corner Stone
Jesus, just skim David Anderson’s posts once in a while. The ACA is on life support. I personally had to drop my insurance because premiums went from $351 to $517 a month. And that’s just for me. My son is on his mom’s plan through work with a $5K deductible, so every visit is out of pocket.
Dan B
@?BillinGlendaleCA: My peeve is with people who continue to believe that facts and pokicy discussions are important and emotionally resonant communication is weird, useless, and foreign to rational people. Science has repeatedly shown that “reason” and “rational thinking” are veneers on emotion and identity. Our goals should be to move people to action not try to reason with them.
Chetan Murthy
@TenguPhule:
TP, take a chill pill. And OBTW, you’ve listed only “outrage theatre” perpetrated by GrOPers. How about some perpetrated by Dems? B/c the problem is that the media gives unlimited airtime to GOPutin outrage theatre, and almost none to Dem outrage theatre. Quite to the contrary, it’s “Dems in disarray” on all channels all the time.
C’mon, man. this outrage shit is the job of bloggers and such, until it catches fire in the media. And THEN the mainstream Dems can get aboard. Don’t you remember the Transatlantic Puke Funnel?
Steeplejack
@Roger Moore:
Well, then quit your moanin’ about a wireless one! ?
VOR
@Davebo:
I disagree, Butina is an attractive young woman. But she has more of a “girl next door” vibe than the more obvious sex appeal of an Anna Chapman. It may actually be easier for Butina to infiltrate Evangelicals and other right-wing groups – she blends in better.
J R in WV
@Millard Filmore:
Yes, Mr Filmore, but you are not a fascist theocratic hypocrite who hasn’t had a sexual contact with anyone in 11 years. Those guys say “Yippee!!” especially when she shows them the money.
I gotta type that again: When SHE shows THEM the money! Not how that typically works… Was that not a clue?
Also, is she still a prostitute if she gives them money?~!!!!~?
What a Patriot for Mother Russia!
Dan B
@TenguPhule: Yep. No risk Democrats. A client of mine who’s made millions branding for corporate and pol’s says endlessly “Democrats are wimps.” That is the image that the public perceives. Until that image is broken the public is unlikely to break through the “Both sides” mindset.
BTW my Rep. Jayapal got herself arrested. She gets the value of stratgic communications. She understands emotional appeals’ power. Watch her. If the DNC pushes back on her we’re in deep doodoo.
Steeplejack
@Cheryl Rofer:
Thanks for that. Appreciated by some here, at least. ?
Chetan Murthy
@TenguPhule: Holy cow, TP. What? Do you want Adam Schiff to rip off his shirt a` la Alex Jones and scream until he’s red in the face? Dude, that’s NOT HIS JOB. It’s the job of bloggers. LIKE YOU. So if you want “out there red-faced rhetoric to rile up the masses” then get busy, man. Jesus. Remember back when the birther thing started? And the GrOPer Congresscritters were “I take him at his word” and that was that. Aside from (maybe) that putz Gohmer(t).
joel hanes
@Roger Moore:
I just wish I could find a good wireless mechanical keyboard.
Here’s one, although it’s a “compact layout” and thus not one I’d prefer for myself …
https://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/
Dan B
@Corner Stone: I believe that we’re talking past each other. IANACommunications pro but I spend a lot of time with many top pros and the head of the Communications Dept. The left seems clueless about mass communications to us. There is a cult of rationality that can’t be dislodged even by the likes of George Lakoff. It seems like the path to victory is clear. Despite the propaganda onslaught of FOX, Sinclair, and Breitbart the majority of the public still is liberal. But you can’t lead to a better world with facts alone.
If facts worked Disney’s parks would close overnight. Public transit, walking, fake amusements, mixing with people from everywhere and every race, restrictions on freedom, etc. But the brand “happy” wins.
SFBayAreaGal
@gene108: What flipped the election was black women coming out and voting.
Dan B
@Roger Moore: I agree that it’s still possible to seize the moment and take over the conversation. I don’t believe that words alone will do it. Action is necessary. The Dem leadership needs to demonstrate physically that they are defending America. Would a show of support at Lafayette Park get MSM attention? Strategists are needed to assess this out. Would it be more effective to ficus on refugee children? But a unified set of talking points that clearly link to patriotism and love if country would be a good place to start.
Nettoyeur
Bet the GOP now wishes they had brought in a nicely dressed, well made up Butina in for controlled questioning on TV that they could have guided in ways that suit them. Now the optics are—forever—Butina, Marina the captured spy, w/out make-up in an orange jumpsuit, being interrogated by the FBI, prosecutors, and judge. Can’t wait to see what’s in store for the gullible boyfriend, who is by all accounts, a piece of work himself. As for Trump—the unstable genius is now isolated from the Intel community, who will no longer share serious info with him. He’ll do more crazy things, which will at best make him look stupid, and at worse, result in people dying and/or economic woe.
Dan B
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Martin Luther King was branded a communist revolutionary firebrand by the media. Stokely Carmichael, John Lewis, the leaders of the Women’s Movement, many other change agents. If your strategy is based upon avoiding being mislabeled by the MSM you achieve the status of snowflake, wimp. People will see the courage it takes to push back. Michael Avenatti has earned condemnation, he’s stood up, received more coverage, and now there are calls for him to run for President.
Progressives are desperate for heroes. Whoever taps into that market will reap great rewards.
Corner Stone
@Dan B: We’re not. I commented on your post because someone else here was trying to misuse some points made there. That’s all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dan B: None but Lewis was ever in a legislature. Stunts by legislative Dems are pointless. Demonstrations by people are not. On June 30, I went to the keeping families together thing in Madison, WI. One of the Speakers was my Rep., Mark Pocan. He talked about going to those sites on Fathers’ Day and what he saw. He also talked about what he was going to do to help in the future. It was inspiring. It also got reported on the local news. Pocan didn’t do a stunt. He researched and reported to his constituents what he saw. He did his job.
Dan B
@efgoldman: I agree that TP comes across as very agitated and combative. I also feel there’s reason to listen. I’m feeling that the GOP is a cornered animal with a megalomiacal (toxic narcissist) ringmaster. They feel the Dems want to set their circus tent on fire. This does not bide well for a typical election. The level of dirty tricks could be bad or they could induce chaos. Their involvement with Russian oligarchs and the “Vast right wing conspiracy.” to quote a wise woman, is ominous.
It’s not unreasonable to prepare if the time for playing fair is over. I feel uneasy because it appears the Democratic leadership is behaving as though following the rules that have held this country together for years will jold this country together through this expanding crisis. They seem frozen in panic.
Stepping outside their long trodden paths would not be a bad idea at the moment. A major press conference announcing they feel that forces have been aligned against bringing justice to people who have conspired against the USA. Boldness is in great need.
Getting out the vote is as well, of course. But what’s our next move 8f 5hat fails. We need contingency plans and some bold leaders.
Dan B
@Miss Bianca: I can’t wait until the caterwauling and handkerchief waving begins. Sooo uncivil! Especially from the folks who have never had to have “the talk” to their kids. Snowflakes, all of em.
Miss Bianca
@Corner Stone:
I know, when you put in the proper perspective it becomes even *more* absurd. But then, who among this white evangelical crowd had ever even heard of P*ssy Riot? The name alone would be enough to send them into such a fit of vapors, that only smelling salts and a restorative clutch of their sidearms could revive ’em…
Omnes Omnibus
@Dan B: TP is also someone who denies that any action from our side can do anything because some GOP thing will stop it. Some people may have just lost patience with him/her.
Miss Bianca
@Dan B:
That’s not the way I see it. But YMMV.
hitchhiker
@TenguPhule:
We lost Franken because a couple of women told credible stories about how he’d fondled their butts while taking photos with them.
He’d still be in the senate if
1. He hadn’t done that
2. There is no 2. He’d still be in the senate if he hadn’t done that.
I was and am crazy about the guy, but he did that and he got called out and he resigned.
Dan B
@Miss Bianca: I can’t wait until the caterwauling and handkerchief waving begins. Sooo uncivil! Especially from the folks who have never had to have “the talk” to their kids. Snowflakes, all of [email protected]efgoldman: You are correct that you can’t get anywhere legislatvely as an opposition party until there 7s a Democratic house or Senate and can’t do much until there’s a Democrat in the White House.
We can’t govern until then. The GOP learned to be the most effective oppositionparty they could be when they didn’t have the White House or both chambers of Congress. They learned to be effective at other tasks, affecting punblic perception of government negatively among them. Thus they provided leadership of the right.
Democrats have nit learned how to influence government through indirect means as effectively as the GOP. It’s not a durec5 influence, yes of course, but it defines whether you can slow or speed up the levers of power. In the process the Democrats have ended up being defined as weak and not courageous. With the assistance of a MSM and social media infiltrated, or outright owned, by the right wing.
Perception is a key component of leadership and governance. George Lakoff and other communications experts have tried to get through to the Democratic leadership for years but are continually rebuffed. It’s sad and for me it’s frightening.
Corner Stone
@hitchhiker: Really? He grabbed their butts? That was it?
Dan B
@gene108: Democrats have so much going for them (us) in terms of integrity and thoughtfulness. Plus the GOP in their quest to be perceived as strong have stooped to heartlessness. (thank you Koch spawn Tea Party)
The Dems csptured the courageous brand during Kennedy and LBJ but then lost the thread with Carter and Clinton. It could have been regained with a well funded media campaign but the funding was weak and into the void stepped Gingrich. Ouch! Which, with the Kochs and Mercers, became today’s existential threat to Democrats and democracy. I wonder if the Kochs realize their decision to ride the tiger means they’re likely to get eaten? Do they have regrets? Wasn’t Louis the 14th technically a billionaire (do I have my Louis numbers correct?)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dan B: your discussion of politics is strangely lacking any mention of, among other things, voters.
One of those other things: Race.
Dan B
@gene108: Democrats have so much going for them (us) in terms of integrity and thoughtfulness. Plus the GOP in their quest to be perceived as strong have stooped to heartlessness. (thank you Koch spawn Tea Party)
The Dems csptured the courageous brand during Kennedy and LBJ but then lost the thread with Carter and Clinton. It could have been regained with a well funded media campaign but the funding was weak and into the void stepped Gingrich. Ouch! Which, with the Kochs and Mercers, became today’s existential threat to Democrats and democracy. I wonder if the Kochs realize their decision to ride the tiger means they’re likely to get eaten? Do they have regrets? Wasn’t Louis the 14th technically a billionaire (do I have my Louis numbers correct?)@Miss Bianca: It seems to me they’re doing what they’ve always done while complaining angrily. To a communications nerd that comes across as stuck in a rut. The MSM don’t see a “story” in that and the Donald’s craziness gets all the attention. Do you feel that the leadership is acting appropriately or as effectively as possible? I think they’re close but it wouldn’t hurt to step it up a notch given how much of the public is shouting in the streets. A little man bites dog might get the attention we need. I can imagine Andrea Mitchell and Judy Woodruff clucking their tongues in shock at some untoward behaviour by Dems.
Dan B
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m all for voter registration and mobilization. I believe that’s going as well as possible, is better funded than in orevious election cycles, and is 50 states for once. It’s not the focus of my interest because it seems fine compared to branding and communication in the Democratic leadership.
Race? Did you miss my post about the excellent strategic communications that the early civil rights movement? I grew up in that and the Gay Rights movement. We had to be media savvy because we were branded as fairies and perverts. Then in the 80’s we were branded as immoral, duseased and responsible for AIDS.
My interest is perception and the manipulation of perception, especially when it harns minority communities. I’ve been a victim of manipulation. BTW my neighborhood is 95 per cent black and immigrant. We like it because we don’t have to put up with bigotry from our neighbors.
I’m regularly frustrated by the poor understanding of mass communication. Fortunately my rep in DC is brilliant: Pramila Jayapal. Not perfect (works with Wilmer..grrr) but we could use more like her in the party.
TenguPhule
@hitchhiker:
Pretty much all of the stories fell apart upon further investigation. That seems to have been lost on everyone who rushed to condemn him.