Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Infrastructure week. at last.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Bark louder, little dog.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Friday News Dump the First: Michael Cohen’s Tapes of Conversations with the President About Karen McDougal

Friday News Dump the First: Michael Cohen’s Tapes of Conversations with the President About Karen McDougal

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From The New York Times:

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s longtime lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Mr. Trump two months before the presidential election in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording.

The F.B.I. seized the recording this year during a raid on Mr. Cohen’s office. The Justice Department is investigating Mr. Cohen’s involvement in paying women to tamp down embarrassing news stories about Mr. Trump ahead of the 2016 election. Prosecutors want to know whether that violated federal campaign finance laws, and any conversation with Mr. Trump about those payments would be of keen interest to them.

The recording’s existence further draws Mr. Trump into questions about tactics he and his associates used to keep aspects of his personal and business life a secret. And it highlights the potential legal and political danger that Mr. Cohen represents to Mr. Trump. Once the keeper of many of Mr. Trump’s secrets, Mr. Cohen is now seen as increasingly willing to consider cooperating with prosecutors.

The former model, Karen McDougal, says she began a nearly yearlong affair with Mr. Trump in 2006, shortly after Mr. Trump’s wife, Melania, gave birth to their son Barron. Ms. McDougal sold her story to The National Enquirer for $150,000 during the final months of the presidential campaign, but the tabloid sat on the story, which kept it from becoming public. The practice, known as “catch and kill,” effectively silenced Ms. McDougal for the remainder of the campaign.

David J. Pecker, the chairman of The Enquirer’s parent company, is a friend of Mr. Trump’s, and Ms. McDougal has accused Mr. Cohen of secretly taking part in the deal — an allegation that is now part of the F.B.I. investigation.

When The Wall Street Journal revealed the existence of the paymentdays before the election, Mr. Trump’s campaign spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said, “We have no knowledge of any of this.” She said Ms. McDougal’s claim of an affair was “totally untrue.”

More at the link.

Some reactions:

I’m guessing that right now Paul Campos over at LGM is reattacking his investigation into Elliott Broidy and another Playboy model Shera Bechard.

But the bigger takeaway here is that Michael Cohen is going to be the gift that keeps on giving for a variety of investigation into the President, his campaign, his businesses, and his personal life.

Given how the week went, it’s going to be a long day, so stay hydrated!

Open thread.

 

 

Reader Interactions

525Comments

  4. 4.

    LAO

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did? OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

  5. 5.

    Shrillhouse

    In the interest of civility and discretion, and really for the good of the nation, the press should just ignore this whole unpleasant Stormy Daniels business. Just as they would if the president was a Democrat…

  8. 8.

    Corner Stone

    I realize it’s been said before, but Shera Bechard looks an *awful* lot like Ivanka.

  9. 9.

    Elizabelle

    I’m still waiting for my Manafort news.

    That said, this coming out no doubt bothers Trump and Melania, so I am down with that. Carry on.

  10. 10.

    Aleta

    Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, confirmed in a telephone conversation on Friday that Mr. Trump had discussed the payments with Mr. Cohen on the tape but said the payment was ultimately never made. He said the recording was less than two minutes and demonstrated that the president had done nothing wrong.
    “Nothing in that conversation suggests that he had any knowledge of it in advance,” Mr. Giuliani said, adding that Mr. Trump had directed Mr. Cohen that if he were to make a payment related to the woman, write a check, rather than sending cash, so it could be properly documented.
    “In the big scheme of things, it’s powerful exculpatory evidence,” Mr. Giuliani said.

    Hope T stiffs G instead of paying for his idiosyncratic ideas.

  12. 12.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    What does the Rev know, and when did he know it?

    Reverend Al Sharpton @ TheRevAl
    Just spent an hour w/ Michael Cohen, Trump’s former attorney. I bet you’re wondering what we could be talking about! Stay tuned

  13. 13.

    sdhays

    @LAO: How often are you doing things which would send you to prison if discovered? When your SOP is being shady, you cover yourself.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @Aleta: Saw that. Hoping we hear, or get a transcript of, the conversation and it puts the lie to what Giuliani said.

    He’s just serving up a soundbite for Fox and the rest of the base.

  17. 17.

    SFAW

    But the bigger takeaway here is that Michael Cohen is going to be the gift that keeps on giving

    For as long as he lives.

    What? You don’t think Traitor-in-Chief’s meeting with his handler was ONLY about how to destroy NATO, do you? If so, I gotta bridge …

  18. 18.

    Corner Stone

    @LAO:

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did?

    I think he kept the tapes so that he could play them to himself when he was feeling lonely for Mistuh TruMP.

  20. 20.

    LAO

    @Aleta: The confirmation by Mr. Zero Credibility leads me to believe that the tape is, some how, highly incriminating.

  24. 24.

    B.B.A.

    @LAO: I read somewhere that even Trump’s “legitimate” attorneys regularly taped their conversations with him because he would inevitably lie to them later about what he said.

  25. 25.

    SFAW

    @Aleta:

    “In the big scheme of things, it’s powerful exculpatory evidence,” Mr. Giuliani said.

    Did that racist, fascist moron go to the same “law school” as Cohen?

  27. 27.

    LAO

    @sdhays: Eh, as a criminal defense attorney, clients tell me incriminating things all the time — I need them to tell me the truth — I wouldn’t record the conversations because that it stupid. But I get your point (I think).

  28. 28.

    dmsilev

    @Aleta: That’d be nice, but even better would be finding out that Rudy was also up to his ears in the Trump Sludge and watching him get perp-walked.

    It’s a dream I have.

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    @sdhays:

    Giuliani is working for free, I believe. Just like Paul Manafort.

    Um, getting paid in rubles is not the same as “working for free.” Just sayin’

    ETA: Of course, that may have been your point, and I was too slow to catch it.

  33. 33.

    just

    “Tapes,” mumbled the rotting corpse of Nixon. “I keep telling them, first thing you do is burn all the F***ING TAPES!”

  34. 34.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: Remember, he wasn’t really working as a lawyer. He was working as a fixer. And as muscle who could cite legalese gobbledygook to threaten and intimidate people on behalf of his own and the President’s interests. Taped conversations are just another form of leverage, as long as things are going well. So taping conversations makes sense.

    Right now, Sean Hannity is in full pucker mode though!

  35. 35.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @LAO:

    does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did?

    My guess: For the same reason that Trump’s regular lawyers would only meet with him in pairs. Trump has a habit of lying to his lawyers about what they themselves said.

    @Aleta:

    He said the recording was less than two minutes and demonstrated that the president had done nothing wrong.

    And Giuliani has certainly proven himself honest and accurate so far.

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Aleta: Giuliani has stated he’s doing this pro bono for his good, dear friend the President. You get what you pay for.

  42. 42.

    sdhays

    @LAO: Yeah, your clients may have done criminal things, but I assume YOU aren’t and the discussions you have with them aren’t involving you in their crimes.

    You don’t hire a lawyer like Michael Cohen when you’re looking for ethical conduct (or legal competence). You hire a lawyer like Michael Cohen when you want someone who will help you conduct your crimes with a legal veneer.

  43. 43.

    cynthia ackerman

    Agree with Adam that this is likely a warm up for how Cohen plays in coming months.

    But seriously: Can Mr. Pecker please just get it over with and legally change his first name to Richard?

  46. 46.

    Brachiator

    @LAO:

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did? OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

    This reminds me of some old movie, or an episode of an tv show where a lawyer kept secret tapes of conversations with a kingpin client.

  48. 48.

    Elizabelle

    @Mike in DC: A better quip would be August of 1974. When Nixon was forced to resign. He heli’d out on August 9. Dog only knows what Trump will be doing on August 9 of this year.

    Kennedy’s murder was a tragedy, and not in any way funny to me. It’s your comment, though.

  53. 53.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @LAO: Remember Trump lies ALL THE TIME, and he forgets alot too. Also remember firms that represented him, would always send two lawyers to any meeting with him because he lies ALL THE TIME.

  54. 54.

    eric

    Allow me to ask a question that I have NOT seen asked elsewhere: given the widely held belief that Trump has been mobbed up for YEARS, at what point do those folks look around and see what their options are? They may not be Putin, but they are not cute and cuddly, and they possess very strong survival instincts. Plus, they have the Putin angle for any investigation. History repeating itself? The Kennedy reference is what sparked my question.

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Hmmm. Maybe we have why Michael Cohen was taping conversations.

    Because Trump is a cheap-ass liar, and Cohen would end up the only one in the room with him. Maybe the tapes were for self-protection.

    ETA: D’uh. Lot of you got there first.

  57. 57.

    HeleninEire

    @Aleta: Pretty sure the tape is more than 2 minutes long. However the part where Trump says “pay the bitch” is two minutes long.

    And how has Rudy heard it already?

  58. 58.

    JPL

    @oatler.: Pence is campaigning in GA tomorrow with another pseudo christian who is running for governor. No one will ask him about the latest development.

  59. 59.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @lurker dean:

    My God, looking at that picture it’s as clear as it could be that getting himself elected president was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to the shit. I think that’s what’s behind a whole lot of his rage. This was supposed to be easy! This was supposed to be fun, God damn it! They told me everybody would have to love me! Omarosa even said people would have to bow down before me! When does the fucking fun begin? When does everybody bow to me? This isn’t fun any more! WHY ISN’T EVERYBODY DOING WHAT I FUCKING WANT THEM TO DO? THIS ISN’T FAIR!

  60. 60.

    Corner Stone

    @frosty: To me it looks like he went in to the meeting knowing he was in a hole but thought he was making up ground. And then he was told the hole is actually a sinkhole and he’s never getting out.
    That or he’s concentrating every last fiber of is very good brain on the thought, “Must not make poopy in front of Vladdy…must not make poopy…must…not..make…”

  63. 63.

    JPL

    @LAO: I think Rudy leaked the information now, because it could take the heat off the Trump/Putin lovefest.

  64. 64.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Baud:

    @LAO: To be fair, you’re probably a competent lawyer.

    LAO is only competent because LAO is a Democrat and hardly fair to Republican like Mr Cohen!

    Liberals and their hidden fascism of professional conduct.

  66. 66.

    The Other Bob

    I assume these tapes are not considered privileged communications because the lawyer was participating in a criminal activity? Can a lawyer type answer this for me?

  67. 67.

    MisterForkbeard

    I asked this in a previous thread, but other than this being potentially embarrassing to Trump does it actually matter? We all already know he cheated on Melania repeatedly and that he tried to get the whole thing covered up during the election. Getting that proved legally does nothing, unless it proves something else as well.

    What else is this supposed to do – maybe show that Trump was an ass? Or that he broke campaign finance laws? I’m confused what the end-game is here.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

    @eric: The organized crime he’s heavily involved with now are Russian. The krysha for the Russian organized crime groups is Vladimir Putin.

  72. 72.

    chopper

    @LAO:

    i think calling where he went a law school is being somewhat generous. doubt he learned much by way of ethics or good practices, which is why he was able to attach himself to trump.

  73. 73.

    randy khan

    @LAO:

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did? OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

    I think we’ve already established that Mr. Cohen is a veritable paradigm of stupid lawyering. But I have to presume he *thought* he was protecting himself by taping Trump, so it was a stupid person’s idea of being cunning. Since that seems like his general way of approaching things, I don’t find it bizarre that he did it, although it would seem bizarre for almost anyone else.

  75. 75.

    randy khan

    @Aleta:

    I have a sneaking suspicion that Rudy’s spitballing will be entirely contradicted by the actual recording.

  77. 77.

    MomSense

    Given how the week went, it’s going to be a long day, so stay hydrated!

    Since it’s Friday, I’m thinking some adult hydration might be appropriate. We may need to invent a special cocktail for today’s news.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You were saying…

  79. 79.

    JPL

    @Adam L Silverman: Do we know that for sure? If she only accepted payment from the National Enquirer, then he didn’t write the check. If that’s the case, I assume he just says it is taken care of. I want the tapes where he is paying off the mob.

  80. 80.

    Gelfling 545

    @LAO: Trump likes to hire people to whom he can feel superior. This leads to a lot of stupid practice.

  81. 81.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @LAO:

    I’ve had clients ask me to call people to record answers, and I’ve always said “fuck no – don’t get me in that briar patch”. I had one boss who insisted on doing it when I was younger, and it was…not pleasant.

  82. 82.

    randy khan

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Giuliani has stated he’s doing this pro bono for his good, dear friend the President. You get what you pay for.

    Most of the time, pro bono lawyers are better than you could get if you paid, as they are doing it out of a genuine belief that what they’re doing is important and necessary. But, as usual, it’s opposite day in the Trump Administration.

  83. 83.

    raven

    Over at a blog not to be named they are hysterical that the Chinese hacked Hills and the FBI covered it up. Every but cheeto are going to jail.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: Rudy is not Cohen’s lawyer, nor is he the FBI or DOJ folks handling this case, nor is he the Special Master reviewing this material. Therefore it is highly unlikely that he’s heard the tape.

  87. 87.

    Corner Stone

    For those with some free time on their hands and are so inclined:

    Emma Best (ᴜ//ғᴏᴜᴏ)
    ?️‍?
    ‏ @NatSecGeek
    2h2 hours ago

    Today, I’m releasing a searchable transcript of over 285,000 #Manafort text messages that #WikiLeaks wouldn’t publish. You can find the what, why and where at:

    I am not familiar with this person, found it on Rick Wilson’s twit feed. Emma has a link to a website where all the info will be posted in the original tweet but I couldn’t get it to display properly.

  90. 90.

    Amir Khalid

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Is it legal to donate lawyering services to a public official like POTUS? That sounds a lot like a valuable gift in kind — the sort of thing bribery laws frown upon.

  91. 91.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: Based on a speech Gohmert made on the House floor during member’s special speech time? Referencing the behind closed doors interview of Deputy Director Strzok, where the GOP majority on the committee won’t release the transcripts and instead selectively leak and make claims about what is in the transcript of Strzok’s remarks? Oy vey…

  92. 92.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman:
    The kicker is that all of those people have a lot of power collectively to stand up to this chump and they don’t use it.

  94. 94.

    Roger Moore

    @LAO:

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did? OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

    It makes perfect sense if you see it as guaranteeing proffer material for when he get charged with conspiracy.

  95. 95.

    randy khan

    @Amir Khalid:

    Is it legal to donate lawyering services to a public official like POTUS? That sounds a lot like a valuable gift in kind — the sort of thing bribery laws frown upon.

    In this case, it’s no problem, since Rudy isn’t providing any value. (j/k – the actual value isn’t actually that revenant to the question.)

  98. 98.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Amir Khalid: I know that the set up Jared and Ivanka, as political appointees, have violates the Anti-Deficiency Act as the government cannot accept voluntary service for what is normally paid work. Given that Giuliani is the President’s external to government/personal lawyer, though he’s really his external to government/personal spokesman, I don’t know.

  102. 102.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Corner Stone: I’m curious as to why WikiLeaks wouldn’t publish them. That’s… interesting, considering their own lack of interest in personal privacy.

    My guess is that there isn’t much in them.

  104. 104.

    frosty

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s it for Home Depot. Lowe’s or the local True Value from now on. I already had to give up Maple Donuts and Yuengleng beer.

    When will retail folks learn that advertising your politics drives customers away?

  105. 105.

    piratedan

    strange that Trump, who we know is a very hard worker, who makes quick insightful decisions after the proper amount of deliberation (say two maybe even three seconds) as he evaluates each key component…

    a) is she blonde
    b) does she remind me of my daughter
    c) is she willing to “do” me

    never apparently worries about things like:

    a) oh yeah, I’m married
    b) oh yeah, I’m running for President
    c) somebody might find out

    and yet its these keen business and management skills that endear him so to his base…. ethics be damned, we’re voting for the guy who banged Playboy models and strippers because of how powerful he is!

    yeeesh

  106. 106.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Jay: Okay – campaign finance violations make sense, particularly if they’re a method to get a view into Trump’s finances that we’ve been denied.

    Legal Ethics Violations wouldn’t rebound on Trump at all, though. Unless I’m missing something, the legal consequences there are for Cohen, not Trump. Trump just looks like a gigantic ass, but that’s already something he’s constantly excused for and it won’t make a difference.

  108. 108.

    Miss Bianca

    Adam, et al – quick question, regarding the evidence list cited in this Hoarse Whisperer tweet re: Tad Devine:

    https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1019970082812940289

    At the top, it says, “Immunity Order, Witness E”. Would that tend to indicate that Devine is probably one of the Five that Mueller is evidently seeking immunity for? And if that can be posited…where can we look at the evidence list for a gander at “Immunity Order A, B, C, D”?

    Asking for a friend. Really, honestly.

  112. 112.

    LAO

    @Miss Bianca: I went and looked at the full list — short answer no. But I do think it highly likely that Devine is one of the immunized witnesses, for no real reason, just my gut impression.

  114. 114.

    Corner Stone

    @frosty:

    I already had to give up Maple Donuts and Yuengleng beer.

    Good God man! When the founders called on a sacrifice to be made for the good of our nation they didn’t mean anything that extreme! Don’t you have like a first born or something you could snuff out in a ritual?

  117. 117.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: I went and looked at the evidence list too – found the link for it. Sent it on – let my friend puzzle it out! ; )

  118. 118.

    Anonymous At Work

    @LAO: I’ve worked 6 years with this one attorney and I have a total of 2 emails from them that are not “Call me to discuss.” I call those emails “Proof of Life”. It’s annoying but understandable. Then again, legitimate business dealings.
    For Cohen, fixer more than lawyer, dealing with a client whose own money is mostly due to stiffing clients and settling for dimes on the dollar, I’d want recordings.

  119. 119.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I’m thinking the individual conversations go a little something like this.

    I understand. You found paradise in America, you had a good trade, you made a good living. The police protected you and there were courts of law. And you didn’t need a friend like me. But uh, now you come to me and you say – ‘Don Corleone, give me justice.’ But you don’t ask with respect. You don’t offer friendship. You don’t even think to call me Godfather. Instead, you come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married, and you ask me to do murder for money.

  121. 121.

    MisterForkbeard

    @LAO: What, Trump can’t imagine that not only would his sleazy thugs ever possibly turn on him… or that Cohen (in particular whom Trump has abandoned and is generally screwing) would turn on him?

    That’s funny. And sad! But funny.

  122. 122.

    smintheus

    @LAO: I wouldn’t be surprised if mob lawyers surreptitiously tape conversations with clients. The odd thing is Cohen’s failing to keep the tapes from falling so easily into the hands of the feds. The whole point in making them is to possess a huge bargaining chip in just such a situation.

  125. 125.

    trollhattan

    @piratedan:
    So? Obama bowed to foreigners and sent blankets and coats to Ukraine. Trump gets us results!*

    *Still hearing this line of reasoning all week from the Usual Suspects. They’re not quitting him. Trump will be led away in shackles and they’ll blame Obama and ask about the Hillary email investigation.

  126. 126.

    Anonymous At Work

    This isn’t stupid by Cohen. If Cohen ever got raided and the tapes exposed, Cohen would be small fry compared to what the tapes could offer. Depending on Trump for that “Get out of Jail Free” card would have been stupid; plea bargain material isn’t.

  127. 127.

    JWR

    This may have already come up or been answered, but could this recording be a bit of what Avenatti was referencing when he uploaded the image of a DVD?

  128. 128.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: If you look around the table and can’t figure out who the mark is, you’re the mark.

  129. 129.

    Adam L Silverman

    @LAO: Even better:

  130. 130.

    LAO

    @smintheus:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if mob lawyers surreptitiously tape conversations with clients.

    We ABSOLUTELY do not don’t tape conversations with our clients. I have, however, been forced to listen to myself on government intercepts. Always fun.

  132. 132.

    Adam L Silverman

    @frosty: Yeungling’s no great loss. What’s the deal with Maple Donuts? They make the best donuts!!!

  133. 133.

    Roger Moore

    @MomSense:

    We may need to invent a special cocktail for today’s news.

    I don’t know what should be in it, but it should be called the Brain Bleach.

  135. 135.

    Aimai

    Oh Come On Reality–isn’t this a bit too on the nose?

    David J. Pecker, the chairman of A.M.I., is a friend of Mr. Trump’s,

  138. 138.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Adam L Silverman: The sad thing is, due to the nature of the FBI investigation we won’t actually get to hear any of those tapes unless they directly touch on the case at hand.

    I’m SURE there’s language in there of Trump using racial epithets, talking about fucking women, and a whole host of other things that would usually get you bounced right out of office. And the public won’t see them, because the FBI is actually being ethical and thorough about this investigation.

  139. 139.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    Since we have lawyers in this thread, I have a legal question. Nothing to do with me personally but I was watching a show where a main character was coerced to help thieves steal from a mint. Would the coerced character still be held legally responsible?

  141. 141.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: To answer the first question: possibly, but ask LAO, she’s the defense attorney, she’ll have a better idea. As for the second question, I have no idea. So ask LAO because she’s the defense attorney and she might know.

  142. 142.

    trollhattan

    Lord, this is horrid.

    The father of two survivors of February’s school shooting in Parkland, Florida, has been shot dead in his convenience store.

    CCTV footage shows a man returning to shoot Ayub Ali after robbing his shop in North Lauderdale, Florida. Two of Mr Ali’s four children attended the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School which an ex-student attacked, killing 17 people.

    Police are still hunting the man who carried out Tuesday’s store attack.

    Nice to have NRA on the hot seat but too many guns are out there killing too many people, just as before.

  145. 145.

    Leto

    @SFAW:

    Traitor-in-Chief

    While I do like that, because the acronym is apropros to what he’s doing to America, I’m going to stick with what we’ve been calling which is still CinC. It’s just that it now means: Colluder-in-Chief. CinC Trumpov.

  147. 147.

    Teddys Person

    @LAO: Just a random question, if you don’t mind. If I was in NY and at the begining of a conversation said “I don’t want to be recorded” does that override the 1-party consent?

  148. 148.

    Roger Moore

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’m curious as to why WikiLeaks wouldn’t publish them.

    They have this curious unwillingness to publish anything that might make Putin look bad.

  150. 150.

    Brachiator

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Since we have lawyers in this thread, I have a legal question. Nothing to do with me personally but I was watching a show where a main character was coerced to help thieves steal from a mint. Would the coerced character still be held legally responsible?

    Not a lawyer, but I will say no.

    Now, I can see if a real lawyer can make my blood pressure rise by explaining how an innocent person can be made legally culpable despite being coerced into helping with a crime.

    ETA: The Patty Hearst thing always bothered me. Glad that she got a commutation from Jimmy Carter and a pardon from Bill Clinton, if I recall correctly.

  154. 154.

    Yutsano

    @HeleninEire: Since we’re talking open thread here, I took a gander at the Ireland immigration website. Specifically their jobs that they prioritize list. Lo and behold tax professionals is one of the categories. So if I can go to Ireland for a week or so and get a job offer while I’m there they’ll make it pretty easy on me.

  157. 157.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @rikyrah:
    To the surprise of no one. I’m sure most of those 9 states are located in the former CSA

  159. 159.

    rikyrah

    Home Depot employee says he was fired after responding to customer’s racist rant
    July 19, 2018 07:17 PM

    ALBANY – Is the customer always right? The Times Union reported Thursday morning that a Home Depot employee at the Central Avenue store in Albany was fired after what he considers pretty nasty verbal abuse from a customer.

    The employee in this case was a 60-year-old black man, who says the abuse was racist and unlike anything he’d ever experienced. He’s still shocked he was fired over it.

    When Maurice Rucker was working at the Albany Home Depot last Thursday, a customer approached the checkout with an unleashed dog – so Maurice tried to be a good employee.

    “I said to him, “Sir, when you have your dog in here we prefer that you keep it on a leash.'” He turned around and said, ‘F**k you. You’re an a*****e you’re a piece of s**t,'” explained Rucker.

    Rucker was understandably shocked. However, it was just the start of a barrage of insults — some of them racist.

    He says, ‘If Trump wasn’t president, you wouldn’t even have a job.’ He said, ‘You’re from the ghetto, what do you know?’

  161. 161.

    TenguPhule

    @LAO:

    OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

    Having sex with his clients and videotaping it?

  162. 162.

    feebog

    It’s beginning to dawn on me that Michael Cohen is not that bright. It is going to take weeks, perhaps months for the Southern District of New York attorneys to go through this material. This isn’t going to be over any time soon.

  163. 163.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: From the former owner and publisher of the biggest firearms site/blog. It is from 2017.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/robert-farago/washington-post-nra-saf-russian-visits-tied-trump-softening-russia/maria-butina-courtesy-washingtonpost-com/

    There are no posts about her or Torshin or the arrest on the site. And interestingly enough, as the story was breaking that the Special Counsel was beginning to look into the Butina/Torshin/Russia to NRA connection back at the beginning of the year, the owner/publisher quietly negotiated the sale of his baby, stopped writing their completely, and seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Makes one wonder just who was funding TTAG.

    Here’s the only two other posts on the site about Butina:
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/dean-weingarten/russia-changes-law-allow-guns-carried-self-defense/
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/robert-farago/washington-post-nra-saf-russian-visits-tied-trump-softening-russia/

    Read the comments to the second post – the May 2017 one.

  165. 165.

    TenguPhule

    Bowing to White House demands, Senate Republicans have backed off their attempt to reimpose U.S. sanctions on the Chinese telecommunications giant ZTE, a congressional source said Friday.

    The retreat means that ZTE — a company found guilty of selling U.S. goods to Iran in violation of sanctions — will get to duck tough Commerce Department penalties that bar U.S. companies from doing business with it. Chinese officials said those penalties would effectively put ZTE out of business.

    Via Wapo.

    Friday news dumpster has arrived.

  166. 166.

    Roger Moore

    @LAO:

    We ABSOLUTELY do not don’t tape conversations with our clients.

    Again, though, you’re a criminal defense attorney for mobsters but not a mob lawyer.

  167. 167.

    Ruckus

    @rikyrah:
    As I understand it, the guy who owns HD would be fine with this racist attitude. I’d bet the only thing that he appreciates about a POC is that they bring money into his stores.

  168. 168.

    Adam L Silverman

    @frosty: The one just south of Harrisburg right off the interstate is, I think, still in Dauphin County.

  169. 169.

    LAO

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: @Brachiator: Rolls up sleeves and is ready to get to work raising Brachiator’s blood pressure.

    Just kidding. The short answer is it depends. Coercion, which in NYS is called Duress, can be an affirmative defense. The following is an excerpt from the model jury instructions:

    Under our law, it is an affirmative defense to this charge that the defendant engaged in the prohibited conduct because he/she was coerced to do so by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force upon him/her [or a third person], which force or threatened force a person of reasonable firmness in the defendant’ss situation would have been unable to resist.

    The defense of duress is not available if the defendant intentionally or recklessly placed himself/herself in a situation in which it was probable that he/she would be subjected to duress.

    It continues:

    [Note: Add if applicable
    [In deciding whether the defendant was coerced into committing this crime, you may consider whether he/she was a person predisposed to criminal conduct and not a person whose
    will needed to be overcome. On this issue, there is evidence in the case that on another occasion, the defendant [engaged in criminal conduct / was convicted of a crime / or (specify)]. That evidence was offered solely in an attempt to establish that the defendant was predisposed to engage in criminal conduct and thus was not coerced into committing this crime. If you find the evidence believable, you may consider it for that limited purpose and for none other.]

    Under our law, the defendant has the burden of proving an affirmative defense by a preponderance of the evidence.

    Fini

  170. 170.

    Jay

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Conspiracy to defraud. And I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Cohen’s fake lawyer partner and the National Enquirer are mentioned by name with the whole catch and trap scam laid out in full.

    4 for the price of one.

  172. 172.

    James E Powell

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That praise pageant should be humiliating to every one of those businesspersons. How degrading to be kowtowing to a politician. It looked like something that Saddam Hussein would have done.

  173. 173.

    rikyrah

    Kyle Griffin
    ‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

    House Democrats are moving today to force Republicans to hold a hearing on a measure that would prevent Trump from unilaterally removing Robert Mueller.

  174. 174.

    Gravenstone

    @LAO: I believe the description of Cohen as “a gangster who went to law school” holds here.

  175. 175.

    TenguPhule

    A Russian company accused by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III of being part of an online operation to disrupt the 2016 presidential campaign is leaning in part on a decision by Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh to argue that the charge against it should be thrown out.

    The 2011 decision by Kavanaugh, writing for a three-judge panel, concerned the role that foreign nationals may play in U.S. elections. It upheld a federal law that said foreigners temporarily in the country may not donate money to candidates, contribute to political parties and groups or spend money advocating for or against candidates. But it did not rule out letting foreigners spend money on independent advocacy campaigns.

    Kavanaugh “went out of his way to limit the decision,” said Daniel A. Petalas, a Washington lawyer and former interim general counsel for the Federal Election Commission.

    Fuck Kavanaugh with a rusty chainsaw. He’s one of them.

  176. 176.

    James E Powell

    The FTFNYT article reports that this is all “according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording.” I wonder which lawyers? Which persons [who claim to be] familiar with the recording?

    Mueller’s team doesn’t leak, does it?

  177. 177.

    Teddys Person

    @rikyrah: JFC, Home Depot sucks!! I can’t believe anyone would not give Rucker some slack over not following “company policy” after being verbally assalted by a racist prick.

    from the article at the link

    The man left, then came back because he forgot his dog, insulted Rucker again and was gone.

    Stupid, racist, motherfucking asshole.

  179. 179.

    Immanentize

    @eric:

    JFK told Kruschev I’ll leave Castro alone
    If you take away those missles
    They’re too damn close to home
    The CIA, the Cubans and the underworld bosses
    Decided that was it, they had to cut their losses
    At eleven miles an hour
    Such a deadly speed
    Eleven miles an hour
    At the time and place agreed
    They pulled their limousine
    Down Elm Street slow and clean
    Lead fell like a shower
    At eleven miles an hour

    Was Not Was, Eleven Miles an Hour
    Coincidentally, I was just telling my son, the Immp, about this song yesterday as we were chatting about what people around the world might be thinking.

  181. 181.

    Gravenstone

    @B.B.A.: Dunno about taped, but it has been noted that they never met with him alone. Always at least two lawyers, each to ensure the other had a witness to the conversation for that very reason.

  183. 183.

    LAO

    @James E Powell: Cohen and Trump’s legal teams were given copies of every seized item so that they could evaluate whether or not to make a privilege claim. Mueller’s team does not get access until the Special Master makes/made a privilege determination. In other words, the leak is from Team Trump.

  184. 184.

    TenguPhule

    The Republican National Committee announced Friday that it will hold its 2020 convention in Charlotte, making official a decision that had long been expected by party insiders.

    The RNC’s announcement puts the city back in the national spotlight eight years after it hosted the 2012 Democratic National Convention.

    Residents of Charlotte may want to look into being out of the city for the duration of the emergency.

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    @HeleninEire:
    Giuliani doesn’t need to hear the tape to know what’s on it and he for sure doesn’t need to hear the tape to say he had or what’s on it. His ethics are on the same level as drumpf, that is, whatever is below the ooze that is at the bottom of a putrid swamp that is being drained has been scrapped away so an electron microscope could possibly find them.

  188. 188.

    HeleninEire

    @LAO: Hi LAO. Lawyer Q. If you as a lawyer know that your client is or has broken the law are you you required to report it or can you just quit?

  190. 190.

    Jay

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Russian active measures ratfucking sites generally exhibit no interest in ratfucking Russian operators and agents.

    It’s not the first time Wiki passed on Russian docs, or burned a source, won’t be the last.

  191. 191.

    Immanentize

    @James E Powell: These leaks likely come from either Cohen’s lawyers (we would like a pardon, now) or from the lawyers representing Trump (“because it exonerates him” — and would be released soon anyway) or other attorneys representing other potential clients (which included Hannity, right?)

  192. 192.

    James E Powell

    @LAO:

    Team Trump? Why not Team Cohen? I’m genuinely curious why either would put that out.

    Also too, I just want to say that I believe if any RWer got hold of tapes of conversations between either Clinton and his or her lawyer, that the NYT & CNN would get copies and would publish & broadcast them within 24 hours. Am I wrong?

  193. 193.

    frosty

    @Adam L Silverman: I think that’s Etters, in York Co. I’ll have to look at a map. A cryin’ shame either way.

    ETA. Checked the map. County line is just south of Harrisburg.

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    @MomSense:

    Since it’s Friday, I’m thinking some adult hydration might be appropriate. We may need to invent a special cocktail for today’s news.

    The Fuck em?

    Rum w lime, pineapple & mango juice with a tequila salt rim.

  198. 198.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah:

    From the NY Times on June 25, 2013: Supreme Court Invalidates Key Part of Voting Rights Act

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Tuesday effectively struck down the heart of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 by a 5-to-4 vote, freeing nine states, mostly in the South, to change their election laws without advance federal approval.

    The court divided along ideological lines, and the two sides drew sharply different lessons from the history of the civil rights movement and the nation’s progress in rooting out racial discrimination in voting. At the core of the disagreement was whether racial minorities continued to face barriers to voting in states with a history of discrimination.

    “Our country has changed,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote for the majority. “While any racial discrimination in voting is too much, Congress must ensure that the legislation it passes to remedy that problem speaks to current conditions.”

    … President Obama, whose election as the nation’s first black president was cited by critics of the law as evidence that it was no longer needed, [holy fuck!] said he was “deeply disappointed” by the ruling.

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg summarized her dissent from the bench, an unusual move and a sign of deep disagreement. She cited the words of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and said his legacy and the nation’s commitment to justice had been “disserved by today’s decision.”

    She said the focus of the Voting Rights Act had properly changed from “first-generation barriers to ballot access” to “second-generation barriers” like racial gerrymandering and laws requiring at-large voting in places with a sizable black minority. She said the law had been effective in thwarting such efforts.

    The law had applied to nine states — Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas and Virginia — and to scores of counties and municipalities in other states, including Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx.

    Chief Justice Roberts wrote that Congress remained free to try to impose federal oversight on states where voting rights were at risk, but must do so based on contemporary data. But the chances that the current Congress could reach agreement on where federal oversight is required are small, most analysts say.

    Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. joined the majority opinion. Justice Ginsburg was joined in dissent by Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan.

    The current coverage system, Chief Justice Roberts wrote, is “based on 40-year-old facts having no logical relationship to the present day.”

    That whole article reads as an indictment of John Roberts. It reads terribly, five years out, seeing what has happened in the interim. People need to be in his face about it. Roger B. Taney Roberts.

    I think protesters should, respectfully, be outside John Roberts’ home with a candlelight vigil, every other day or so. Doesn’t matter if it is only 4 or 5 people. Take the protest home to him. Make that fucker rue the day he decided to punt Voting Rights to Congress, which is moribund and polarized. And owned, by the wealthy and Russians.

    We need to make sure there are no hearings or vote on a new Supreme Court justice until the new Senate is seated.

    And we need to take Congress and pass new voting rights legislation.

    I know. Easy peasy. ;-(

  200. 200.

    Brachiator

    @LAO:

    Just kidding. The short answer is it depends. Coercion, which in NYS is called Duress, can be an affirmative defense.

    Very interesting and mostly reasonable.

    I found this a little surprising, but understandable.

    Under our law, the defendant has the burden of proving an affirmative defense by a preponderance of the evidence.

  202. 202.

    LAO

    @HeleninEire: LOL. I rely upon the fact that my clients have broken the law. But to answer your question seriously, all lawyers have an ethical obligation not to encourage or assist a client who is prospectively planning to commit a crime (also there is an exception — the crime/fraud exception — to the attorney/client privilege, which specifically excludes that sort of behavior from the protection of attorney client privilege). A lawyer would not be required to report the client but they could “fire” them.

    But past crimes — I don’t have to report and I certainly don’t quit a case.

    (I realize you probably are better off asking one of the non-criminal defense attorneys this question).

  203. 203.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: I did put the plea to ‘Adam, et al. ‘, Counselor. So, sorry to disappoint you if you were committed to your inner picture of jerkiness, but you were perfectly within your rights to respond. ; )

  204. 204.

    Barbara

    @Corner Stone: No, it’s more like he made them in order to be able to say “Don’t even think about trying to throw me under the bus.” Which, apparently, has had zero effect on Trump.

  208. 208.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    I think protesters should, respectfully, be outside John Roberts’ home with a candlelight vigil, every other day or so. Doesn’t matter if it is only 4 or 5 people. Take the protest home to him. Make that fucker rue the day he decided to punt Voting Rights to Congress, which is moribund and polarized. And owned, by the wealthy and Russians.

    John Roberts: How violent. (Calls the cops, then lowers the windowshade)

    Cue Cops treating protesters as terrorists. Cue calls by Republicans for increased “law and order”.

  209. 209.

    J R in WV

    @Corner Stone:

    … Shera Bechard looks an *awful* lot like Ivanka.

    No, MS Bechard is a very attractive woman, and Ivanka is “face by duPont” pretty… not the same at all.

  212. 212.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    We need to make sure there are no hearings or vote on a new Supreme Court justice until the new Senate is seated.

    I am open to suggestions as to what can be done other then what’s already being done.

  213. 213.

    jonas

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Which is why any competent lawyer wouldn’t let him testify under oath in a million years. He would perjure himself before he even got done stating his own name for the record.

  215. 215.

    Adam L Silverman

    @frosty: Okay, that’s a shame. Haven’t been back to the area since I permanently changed station back in August 2014.

  217. 217.

    Barbara

    @Just One More Canuck: I am absolutely convinced that Giuliani is hanging around to maximize the chances that he will get to see what kind of incriminating evidence there might be against him.

  219. 219.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: The comments are indeed a hoot! Move over, Chris Rock, here’s “cadence63”

    Jeff, you’re an idiot. I don’t usually go straight to the ad hominem, but this Russia connection crap was false on its face from the get-go, and has been thoroughly disproved so many times I am not going to go to the trouble to assemble all the arguments again. There is no basis for the connection and the notion that Russia would prefer Trump to Hillary is ludicrous. Hillary, who actually did have dealings with the Russians (selling them 20% of our uranium, Bill getting 400m for a speech) would be Obama redux and he famously said “tell Putin I’ll have more flexibility [in disarmament negotiations, to give up our armaments] after the election.” A stone idiot.

    Bill (Clinton, presumably?) got $400 million bucks for a speech??? Move over, ‘History’s Greatest Monster’, your husband is here for the throne!!

    I’m going back to keep reading and chuckle my way through the day…

  224. 224.

    rikyrah

    don’t start none. won’t be none.

    Roll Call
    ‏Verified account @rollcall

    Oath Keepers cancel protest outside Maxine Waters’ L.A. office after they say police tell them “busloads” of counter-protesters had planted themselves outside Waters’ office to face them.

  225. 225.

    Immanentize

    @HeleninEire: @LAO:
    I will add a big underline — attorneys who think they should abandon a client because they did something wrong, or because (my personal pet peeve) the client “lied” to them, should just hand in their law licenses. Why shouldn’t clients lie to attorneys? They do it every day in corporate america and those big firms NEVER quit the client. But somehow, street level defense attorneys are supposed to have super ethics when it comes to being lied to? If a client has committed a crime, I want to know every detail. How else am I going to adequately represent them? But it takes time to build trust, so many clients will diminish their role or say they didn’t do something until they come to trust the attorney (especially one appointed) will actually fight for them. So, they shade the truth a bit. But so do most attorneys — “Oh no, not that client calling again, tell them I’m in a meeting.”

  228. 228.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    Oath Keepers cancel protest outside Maxine Waters’ L.A. office

    WTF, those ex-police armed goons were targeting her?

  229. 229.

    Jeffro

    @Jeffro: But then there’s stuff like this:

    I don’t see why we as a movement shouldn’t reach out to our Russian counterparts. The right to bear arms is a natural extension of the right to self-preservation, which every human is born with. Gun rights = human rights.

    …which explains exactly how these morons got led right down the treason path.

    Meanwhile, comments like this, well…

    Good lord, liberals these days. They used to worship the Soviet Union. Now they’re like Macarthy level paranoid of Russia. Hey, liberals, you know what I heard? Did your coffee taste funny this morning? You know what that was? KGB agents poured mind controlling ChemTrails into your Starbucks while you were sleeping.

    Whew – good thing he straightened us libs out, otherwise we’d STILL be thinking Russia interfered in the 2016 election and was about to do it all over again in 2018. PERISH THE THOUGHT!

  230. 230.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Jeffro: That comment made me simultaneously laugh and cringe.

    I just got into a similar argument with someone who was trying to claim that Trump was right to have concerns about NATO and that he was actually the most anti-Russia president we’ve ever had. The depths these idiots go to is kind of impressive.

  231. 231.

    Ruckus

    @frosty:
    The problem is that this saying you won’t be a customer of these companies is that they drove a lot of the smaller businesses out when they moved into an area, same as walmart did. So if you need something for your house or hire a contractor to fix something they or you are probably going to purchase the materials at HD or Lowes because they have very few options unless you live in a very large metropolitan area, such as LA. And even then their options are limited. In many areas of the country walmart is about the only source. I used to work an event every year in OH that was on the outskirts of a smallish town. Nice local businesses, grocery stores, etc. walmart moved in and set prices well below cost for small businesses and many closed. Then of course raised the prices back up when all the competition was gone. So now the town is decimated and has to rely on walmart, which being the dominate business in the area, sets wages/hrs and is the major employer. This is not out of the ordinary, this is the only way they do business.

  232. 232.

    Millard Filmore

    @trollhattan:

    I realize not every place is California but that is illfuckinglegal here. You cannot record without consent.

    Only one side has to know in California, which is how iHeart Radio can do the Ryan’s Roses show.

  233. 233.

    Barbara

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Since we have lawyers in this thread, I have a legal question. Nothing to do with me personally but I was watching a show where a main character was coerced to help thieves steal from a mint. Would the coerced character still be held legally responsible?

    If there was enough time between the “coercion” and the “conduct” to call the police, then the answer is yes, most likely they would be prosecuted. They certainly could be prosecuted. Deciding that you are more important than other people is not actually a defense to knowing assistance with criminal conduct. If you had a gun to your head the whole time, you would not be prosecuted for trying to save your life.

  234. 234.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @TenguPhule:
    I know I promised to never use this again but this is an exception because TenguPhule:

    Drink your Victory Gin, Winston

  235. 235.

    LAO

    @Immanentize: I totally agree.

    And with that, I wish all of you a good Friday, I must run home to take my dog to the vet. There has simply been too much scooting these past 3 days and as much as I love her, I’m not sticking my hand up her butt. It will be the best $22, I’ve ever spent. Happy weekend all.

  236. 236.

    MisterForkbeard

    Nothing to do with me personally but I was watching a show where a main character was coerced to help thieves steal from a mint. Would the coerced character still be held legally responsible?

    Okay, who else thinks Goku did something bad? Raise your hand.

  238. 238.

    Teddys Person

    @Adam L Silverman: Perhaps after he shot his wad during his racist-gasm, he lost all his senses. I feel sorry for the dog to have to put up with such a racist human.

    Seriously, these daily (almost hourly) stories of racist attacks have me in a state of permanent outrage and helplessness. Every time I read one of these stories, I take a few moments to mentally prepare myself to intervene (even if it means physical harm) if this ever happens in front of me. I need to use my white privilege for some good.

  239. 239.

    Amir Khalid

    I haven’t had my question answered yet: how is it legal for Rudy Giuliani to provide free lawyering services to Trump? How is it not an illegal gift in kind to POTUS?

  240. 240.

    Barbara

    @LAO:

    Under our law, it is an affirmative defense to this charge that the defendant engaged in the prohibited conduct because he/she was coerced to do so by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force upon him/her [or a third person], which force or threatened force a person of reasonable firmness in the defendant’ss situation would have been unable to resist.

    The operative word is “imminent.”

  241. 241.

    TenguPhule

    Maggie Haberman: Why I Needed to Pull Back From Twitter
    The viciousness, toxic partisan anger and intellectual dishonesty are at all-time highs.

    FTFNYT and fuck Maggie Haberman with a rusty chainsaw.

  242. 242.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: OMG, those comments are off the hook. But then, they usually are on that site, aren’t they?

    Funny that they’re not falling over themselves trying to defend poor, innocent Butina, getting shafted by the evil anti-gun-rights Deep State, isn’t it? Quiet as a church mouse pissing on cotton, to use rikyrah’s immortal phrase…

  243. 243.

    frosty

    @Ruckus: Yep. I live in one of those areas. It’s Walmart or drive to Baltimore. The closest Lowe’s or Target is 20 miles away.

  246. 246.

    Barbara

    @frosty: The reason why, ultimately, Patty Hearst was prosecuted was because of the many opportunities she had to escape but did not avail herself of. That undermined her claim that she was operating under duress at all times during the commission of her crimes. I was okay with her sentence being commuted. I was not okay with her pardon.

  249. 249.

    Immanentize

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I just got into a similar argument with someone who was trying to claim that Trump was … actually the most anti-Russia president we’ve ever had.

    I always ask those folks about Reagan. Just to see what they now say about St. Ronnie.

  250. 250.

    Teddys Person

    @LAO: A groomer once offered to show me how, but I said no thanks. I’ll leave it to the professionals.

  251. 251.

    TenguPhule

    @Amir Khalid:

    how is it legal for Rudy Giuliani to provide free lawyering services to Trump? How is it not an illegal gift in kind to POTUS?

    Who’s going to hold him accountable?

    You’re asking a “if a tree falls and nobody’s there to hear it, does it make a sound?”

  254. 254.

    Elizabelle

    @TenguPhule: Stop with the negativism. We should start keeping a record of things that the Eeyores here have predicted that have not come to pass. Some do, some don’t.

    NY Mag, based on an underlying Politico story: McConnell to Dems: Delay Kavanaugh’s Confirmation at Your Own Peril

    Senate Democrats are pushing for access to more than a million pages of records on Donald Trump’s Supreme Court pick Brett Kavanaugh. This is both a stalling tactic and fishing expedition: Before allowing Republicans to confirm a fifth anti-choice justice, Chuck Schumer’s caucus want to check each and every one of the great carpool dad’s closets for a skeleton.

    But now, Mitch McConnell is warning his Democratic colleagues that, should they persist in their demands for transparency, they will hurt no one but themselves. As Politico reports:

    The Senate majority leader privately told senior Republicans on Wednesday that if Democrats keep pushing for access to upwards of a million pages in records from President Donald Trump’s high court pick, he’s prepared to let Kavanaugh’s confirmation vote slip until just before November’s midterm elections, according to multiple sources.

    Delaying the vote past September would serve a dual purpose for McConnell, keeping vulnerable red-state Democrats off the campaign trail while potentially forcing [a defeat on liberals just before the midterms]. Senators said McConnell believes the Democratic base will be “deflated” if they raise hopes of defeating Kavanaugh only to lose just days before the election. [Really? It could spur them to vote all the more. Realize: it’s Republicans saying this.]

    McConnell’s gambit makes some sense. While keeping senators off the campaign trail in October would hurt both parties’ incumbents, Democrats have 26 seats at risk this fall, while Republicans have only 9. And many of the Democratic Party’s incumbents are seeking reelection in overwhelmingly pro-Trump states. [Again: has anyone been paying attention to off-year election results? The 15 point swings we’re seeing?] … it does seem likely that keeping the Supreme Court fight in the headlines would help to mobilize the Christian right in November.

    And yet, if McConnell truly believed his own threat … then he would ostensibly be planning to do so, no matter what records the Democrats did or did not request …. the fact that the Senate majority leader ultimately favors a speedy confirmation process likely reflects the inherent risks of a delayed one.

    The longer the Kavanaugh fight wears on, the more time [to pressure Collins and Murkowski]. What’s more, if some late-breaking revelation were to sink Kavanaugh in October, it is at least conceivable that the confirmation of his replacement could drag out into the next Congress. And there is a small — but not entirely negligible — chance that Democrats could control the upper chamber next January.

    …. Claire McCaskill, Heidi Heitkamp, and Joe Donnelly will need all the face time with their constituents they can get this fall. [That might be what surrogates are for.] But if McConnell were certain that dragging this process out would result in Kavanaugh’s confirmation — and a few more Republican votes in the Senate — he would be celebrating the Democrats’ stalling tactics, not condemning them.

    Here’s the Politico link to original story.

    McConnell issues Supreme Court ultimatum
    The Senate GOP leader is vowing to squeeze Democrats with a vote on Brett Kavanaugh right before the midterms if they don’t back down on their demand for documents.

    Mitch could have already done a perp walk by October. Buck up, Democrats.

  255. 255.

    Faithful Lurker

    @frosty: Me too. I live in a very small community. We have to go 20 miles to buy plain old underwear or towels.

  256. 256.

    rikyrah

    Kyle Griffin
    ‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

    Eric Swalwell on CNN: “[Putin] shouldn’t be in our country. Frankly, he attacked our country. Most Americans, when they have their home broken into, they upgrade their security system. They don’t invite the burglar for dinner.”
    11:05 AM – 20 Jul 2018

  258. 258.

    JPL

    @LAO: Why not? Rudy can spin the news anyway he wants, because the tape hasn’t been released, and even if only for a few hours the Trump/Putin news is not the first story.
    I do hope that Michael informs him, that it is only business.

  259. 259.

    TenguPhule

    “Getting along with President Putin, getting along with Russia, is positive, not a negative,” Trump said during the interview on CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” which was recorded Thursday shortly as the White House announced it was inviting Putin to Washington in the fall for another meeting with Trump.

    During the interview, Trump defended his efforts to build a personal relationship with Putin, despite Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election.

    At the same time, Trump contended that he has been “far tougher on Russia than any president in many, many years, maybe ever.”

    As evidence, Trump cited several sets of financial sanctions his administration has imposed on Russian oligarchs, companies and other government officials, as well as the expulsion of Russian diplomats after the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain.

    Look at all the things that I have done,” Trump said. “Obama didn’t do it. . . . Obama was a patsy for Russia. A total patsy.”

    Under the Obama administration, the United States issued multiple sanctions against Russia after its 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. Russia was also expelled from the Group of Eight forum during Obama’s watch.

    Trump lies about everything part infinity plus one.

    Trump’s puppets aren’t enforcing the new sanctions put into place by Congress and Trump himself was fucking forced into doing the expulsions and by all reported accounts was upset that they had to be done.

  260. 260.

    trollhattan

    @Millard Filmore:

    California’s wiretapping law is a “two-party consent” law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632. The statute applies to “confidential communications” — i.e., conversations in which one of the parties has an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation. See Flanagan v. Flanagan, 41 P.3d 575, 576-77, 578-82 (Cal. 2002). A California appellate court has ruled that this statute applies to the use of hidden video cameras to record conversations as well. See California v. Gibbons, 215 Cal. App. 3d 1204 (Cal Ct. App. 1989).

    If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you’re recording may or may not have “an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation,” and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place.

    —Digital Media Law Project

    “Confidential communication” is perhaps where wiggle room enters.

  262. 262.

    Aleta

    @HeleninEire: Assuming the Trump side leaked the information, and since Giu is Trump’s TV-spin lawyer, perhaps Trump’s lawyers or a WH fixer-leaker gave him a transcript. If Trump’s side did leak it, I guess a reason might be to pause the Helsinki story that’s grinding along? Or because they hope that this timing will minimize the effect?

    At first I thought Cohen’s lawyer, but given that Giu had a “good news for us” remark ready ….

  264. 264.

    Wapiti

    @Ruckus: I have rural cousins that happily buy what they can from Amazon. If the choice is Walmart, which destroyed your Main Street when they put a store in the next county over, and Amazon…

  266. 266.

    trollhattan

    @Amir Khalid:
    Does said “gift” require value, because as far as I can tell Rudy’s legal assistance value can only be expressed as negative integers. He should be paying Trump.

  268. 268.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    Stop with the negativism.

    What negativism? I’m being serious. There are multiple avenues of attack currently being pursued by the Democratic Senators. Document trails, his record as a judge, his financial oddities, Trump being a criminal who doesn’t get to pick his own judge. If you have something new, share it.

  269. 269.

    danielx

    @B.B.A.:

    Bankruptcy attorneys started meeting with him in pairs so he couldn’t lie about what he said, as he frequently did in meetings with a single attorney.

  270. 270.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @trollhattan: I hate being paranoid, but there’s a troubling aspect of this tragedy that really bothers me: why did the thief return to the store? Was the murder of Ali the goal and the robbery the cover up?

  272. 272.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Elizabelle:
    Honestly, whose minds will the confirmation vote change anyway at this point? I think a vote just before election day would be too late to influence anyone in a noticeable way.

  273. 273.

    Teddys Person

    @Wapiti: It really is the slightly lesser of two evils when it comes to consumer choices. I was purposefully taking Teddy to a mom & pop groomer even though Petco was closer and has good groomer. You know, to support small, independent businesses. That was until I found out some of the ways the mom & pop shop was treating their employees.

  276. 276.

    Elizabelle

    @TenguPhule: Roberts has teenaged or college aged kids. This will get noticed. And discussed around the neighborhood. I would bet he lives in a blue area, or at least one that’s trending that way. I think he might live in Bethesda, Maryland (at least, he went to a Catholic Church there before his confirmation.)

    TenguPhule, the more we show up and get in people’s faces — respectfully, which separates us from the tiki torch crowd — the more we give courage to those also outraged and perhaps inspired to act and fight back.

    Perhaps the protest would have to be at the neighborhood’s entrance. So be it. The roads are public, and generally protesters get a police presence to keep an eye on things. Candlelight is noticeable, and you’ve finished your commitments for the day. It’s cooler. An hour is plenty.

  279. 279.

    Ruckus

    @hueyplong:
    There’s pride in recognizing that Giuliani has no thought process or that what little there is, is completely and obviously used by him for defensive purposes, to find out what the law knows about his conduct? Giuliani knows what he’s done and what is and isn’t legal. And that the fan is revving up and the shit is coming.

  280. 280.

    trollhattan

    @Immanentize:
    Recently read “Just Kids,” her autobiography and chronicle of life with Robert Mapplethorpe. It’s a very thoughtful read, quite unfiltered and evidence she must be a relentless journal keeper. Also an invaluable outsider then insider’s journey through the NYC art world of the ’70s and ’80s. Didn’t realize she’d decamped New Jersey so very young.

  281. 281.

    J R in WV

    We had great locally owned building material stores, but Lowe’s and Home Depot and age pretty much shut then down. There’s one left, but they don’t really have a showroom, just an order counter and a warehouse full of the stuff they sell. Much of their sales is ordered through them from manufacturers.

  284. 284.

    Millard Filmore

    @Immanentize:

    The Boston PD tried to prosecute people who took cellphone videos of police misbehavin’ on the street.

    Ah yes, I remember that. One of candidate Trump’s list for the Supreme Court was for that. The joy of making it illegal to video the police as they commit felonies on public streets …

  288. 288.

    Elizabelle

    @The Thin Black Duke: I am guessing the thief started worrying that Mr. Ali could identify him. Maybe there was someone else who suggested he take out the witness.

    Didn’t read the story, but how tragic.

  289. 289.

    Amir Khalid

    @trollhattan:
    You’re the second in this thread to tell me that joke. The quality of Giuliani’s lawyering aside, he’s providing professional services for free to a public official who isn’t supposed to be accepting gifts in cash or kind. I’m asking if this is legal. If it is, how so?

  292. 292.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    Roberts has teenaged or college aged kids. This will get noticed. And discussed around the neighborhood. I would bet he lives in a blue area, or at least one that’s trending that way. I think he might live in Bethesda (at least, he went to a Catholic Church there before his confirmation.)

    TenguPhule, the more we show up and get in people’s faces — respectfully, which separates us from the tiki torch crowd — the more we give courage to those also outraged and perhaps inspired to act and fight back.

    Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. Especially if as you say, his spawn are still living with him. These GOP assholes are 100% projection and can and will go into paranoid “they’re stalking us to kill us in our home” bullshit firehoses.
    All they need to do is make one hyperbole phone call to the cops and especially if any of the protesters are people of color, things could end badly.

  294. 294.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    I am guessing the thief started worrying that Mr. Ali could identify him. Maybe there was someone else who suggested he take out the witness.

    Escalating from armed robbery to murder 1 in a death penalty state is unusual, to say the least.

  295. 295.

    Elizabelle

    @TenguPhule: Do you get off on always shooting people’s ideas down by fantasizing about shooting people?

    I never did pie you the other day, although I told you I would, but I wonder if you are here solely to get a reaction from us?

    Roberts lives in a very safe community, with a lot of public officials and diplomats. The police are usually pretty good and well trained in neighborhoods such as his own.

  297. 297.

    Amir Khalid

    @Shana:
    Yutsano’s plan is to offer his expertise to expatriate Americans in Ireland in re their American taxes. Right, Yutsy?

  298. 298.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @TenguPhule:
    I was speaking hypothetically. To me, it doesn’t make sense from McConnell’s perspective. I thought he was supposed to be this invincible Lex Luthor machiavellian super-genius? He should know by now that people’s minds are made up a few months before an election.

  299. 299.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: Did the guy who cites his own manifesto comment in that thread?

    Also, full disclosure, I once emailed the owner/publisher to politely explain, especially as he was the son of Holocaust survivors, why a post he’d published that stated there wasn’t any Jewish or other resistance to the NAZIs referenced at the US Holocaust Museum was inaccurate. He then published it without asking me. The comments to that post are even more nuts.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/09/robert-farago/armed-jews-fought-back-against-the-nazis-to-no-appreciable-effect/

  301. 301.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle: @Amir Khalid:
    I think the answer is that working for the Trump qua President, as a personal attorney, is actually working for the United States as opposed to working for a candidate which would perhaps violate campaign contribution laws. People do free stuff as professionals and/or experts for governments and elected officials every day in the Federal Government, States and local governments.

    And because it is not from a foreign government or agent, there is no emoluments clause issue. Therefore, one would have to prove a quid pro quo for Rudy to make it bribery. Does that help?

  303. 303.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah:

    He says, ‘If Trump wasn’t president, you wouldn’t even have a job.’ He said, ‘You’re from the ghetto, what do you know?’

    Ok, now it’s over the Wignut event Horizon, WTF does “If wasn’t for Trump being president (blacks) wouldn’t have jobs” even mean? I though Trump was supposed to save the white working douchbage from the unfair burden of job competition with more competent, likable (and better looking) minorities.

  307. 307.

    eric

    @LAO: Plus, you can out on a defense at trial, you just cannot put on an “I didnt do it defense.”

  311. 311.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    Roberts lives in a very safe community, with a lot of public officials and diplomats. The police are usually pretty good and well trained in neighborhoods such as his own.

    Roberts is a supreme court justice. How do you think the local police are going to react if he calls them to say he feels threatened and suspects that some of those protesters are armed? Its precisely because he lives in a “safe” community that the potential for overreaction against people who “obviously don’t belong there” is so risky.

    Your suggestion would make sense in a better time. But where we’re at, I believe its dangerous to the people who’d try to protest and who’d get shut down hard.

  314. 314.

    Aleta

    @sdhays: And yet there is either some exchange going on there, or else Giu is extremely self-interested in defending T or incriminating T, whichever would save himself. But it’s Giulliani, so my guess is that he is being paid in a roundabout way– the “convention fund,” his overseas consulting company, another donor fund for legal consulting (baseball tickets from Kavanaugh/assorted lawyers)?

  315. 315.

    eric

    @TenguPhule: what makes the Voting Rights case worse, if i recall, there was nothing in the record as to the CURRENT racial attitudes, just the past as reason to continue as is.

  316. 316.

    rikyrah

    Miles Unger
    ‏ @milesjunger

    A phrase we should bury: “Russia meddled in our election.” Instead, we should say: “Russia helped elect Trump.” This was not equal opportunity mischief, but a successful effort to place their puppet in the White House.
    6:00 AM – 20 Jul 2018

  317. 317.

    trollhattan

    @Amir Khalid:
    Is Trump receiving the services personally or are they being supplied to the office of the president? Heck if I can tell. If #1, Trump has amply demonstrated that his taxes are nobody’s bidnez with zero apparent consequences. I suppose Rudy’s hourly rate could be “income” on Trump’s balance sheet, offset by the hundreds of millions of losses he doubtless claims (not that we’ll ever know).

  320. 320.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The wingnuts are claiming the good economy is all Trump’s doing just because he inherited it from Obama. Also, all the people that went on to food stamps/welfare during his presidency was his fault and not due to circumstances he inherited or out of his control.

    In reality, unless a president does something really stupid like declaring a trade war, their actions have very little to do with the economy.

  321. 321.

    TenguPhule

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    To me, it doesn’t make sense from McConnell’s perspective. I thought he was supposed to be this invincible Lex Luthor machiavellian super-genius? He should know by now that people’s minds are made up a few months before an election.

    He’s already cancelled the August recess, so my guess is that this is simply more piling on. Its not a real plan, this is “watching the world burn as long as Democrats go first.”

    He wants that fifth horseman on the court. And whatever McConnell wants, he shouldn’t get.

  324. 324.

    TenguPhule

    @eric:

    there was nothing in the record as to the CURRENT racial attitudes, just the past as reason to continue as is.

    IIRC, the “reasoning” was that “look, people elected Obama as President” as evidence that historic racism had been solved.

  328. 328.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Teddys Person: The only good news is, by and large, the cops are siding with the victims of the attacks and not the perpetrators. Not in all of them, but in what seems to be most of them. And the perpetrators are losing jobs as a result. People haven’t quite figured out that you can’t stop the signal. That the panopticon sees all in and every direction.

  329. 329.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jeffro:

    Good lord, liberals these days. They used to worship the Soviet Union

    That’s quite a alternative reality that wingtard has there, I recall JKF as being quite in the Soviet Union’s face to the point of nuclear war. .

  331. 331.

    TenguPhule

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    In reality, unless a president does something really stupid like declaring a trade war, their actions have very little to do with the economy.

    Six trade wars and counting. Also all those repealed Obama era regulations are going to make selling qualified goods to other countries that much harder.

  332. 332.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @TenguPhule:
    But here’s the thing. Assuming your scenario would play out like that, wouldn’t that overreaction reflect poorly on Roberts? Especially if these people were not armed and were peaceful? With video and everything?

    Anyway, the hypothetical protesters are the ones putting their lives on the line. I’m sure they would have thought about these risks.

  333. 333.

    Jay

    @Amir Khalid:

    It’s against the law,

    At this time, it’s also not being enforced,

    If the law is not being enforced, is the act still illegal?

  334. 334.

    eric

    @TenguPhule: right…and even if you thought that was a meaningful metric on its own, i bet he won no more than one state that had required pre-clearance. the record need to be more complete on the racial breakdown of the white voters in the states that had violated the Voting Rights Act, and when you did that, you would see that Obama did not crush it with the white vote.

  337. 337.

    TenguPhule

    @raven: Again, explain to me what parts are wrong or unbelievable. I’m willing to admit when I get it wrong. But rejecting reality just because its not pretty isn’t helpful.

  338. 338.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @TenguPhule:
    So in other words, he’s afraid the paperwork gambit will work and he feels like his back is against the wall

  339. 339.

    Teddys Person

    @Adam L Silverman:

    People haven’t quite figured out that you can’t stop the signal.

    Yeah, these days I’m not so much relying on the kindness of strangers as I am the stupidity of strangers to save the republic.

  340. 340.

    The Dangerman

    @trollhattan:

    …is what those darn kids did in “Scooby Do.”

    Not so much Shaggy; he was too busy, um, working up a case of the munchies.

  343. 343.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:
    It probably isn’t legal, InMyNonLawyerHumbleOpinion.
    It will probably come out in the end but now? It’s small potatoes. And do remember I believe it has to be a thing of value. Monetary or as a service. Has anything Giuliani provided been of a positive value?

  344. 344.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @geg6:
    You’re going to hurt Pasty Brick’s feelings! >:(… nah keep on keeping on :)

  345. 345.

    Teddys Person

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Paul Manafort was a “sex addict” who made his wife have sex with other men while he watched. His daughters were not please, his wife hated it.

    I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. On a more serious note, I feel sorry for Mrs. Manafort since, you know, divorce is illegal here and everything. s//

    Really now I’ll be serious, sounds like she liked the money more than she hated her husband pimping her out.

  346. 346.

    TenguPhule

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    But here’s the thing. Assuming your scenario would play out like that, wouldn’t that overreaction reflect poorly on Roberts? Especially if these people were not armed and were peaceful? With video and everything?

    Maybe. Maybe not. The truth might come out later that it was a complete overreaction, but the first 72 hours? Complete GOP three wing circus with “terrorists” and “armed Democratic thugs” being used to escalate into FSM only knows what kind of paranoid delusional crap by Trump and the Republicans.

    Lies run around the world on page one while the Truth gets its boots on a retraction on page 12.

  347. 347.

    Amir Khalid

    @Immanentize:
    I understand the bit where no quid pro quo means there is no bribery, but not the rest of it. I mean Rudy’s brief seems to be stuff from Trump’s candidacy i.e. when Trump was still a private citizen. And setting aside that Rudy’s lawyering sucks donkey balls, he’s still giving it for free to POTUS. I do recall that in the 1990s Bill and Hillary had to pay their own lawyers.

  348. 348.

    TenguPhule

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: Seems like it so far. I’m cautiously optimistic that we have a 40% chance to put the vote off at least until after the election. Unless McConnell decides to break the rules (again), the paperwork alone will eat time until September at a minimum.

  349. 349.

    Barbara

    @Teddys Person: There are instances where a husband was convicted of rape because he forced his wife to have sex with another man. I find it creepy that his daughters even knew it was happening.

  350. 350.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Paul Manafort was a “sex addict” who made his wife have sex with other men while he watched. His daughters were not please, his wife hated it.

    Another Jack Ryan.

    Everything old is new again.

  351. 351.

    Trabb's Boy

    With all the electronic voting machine issues and the complete lack of action by the government on cyberattacks, I am thinking that the left needs to start thinking outside the good-guy box and do whatever it takes to obtain a copy of the info stolen from the RNC servers then leak it to Buzzfeed. Get Sweden to agree to drop charges against Assange and refuse to extradite him to the U.S. Find some member of the Cambridge Analytics group and pay them whatever it takes to rat out his colleagues. Anything at this point. If the Republican party is not thoroughly exposed as complicit before the election, what are the chances that this all ends without real violence?

  353. 353.

    Teddys Person

    @Barbara:

    I find it creepy that his daughters even knew it was happening.

    Me too. I get it. My parent have sex. I want to know nothing about it (and my parents probably had a pretty vanilla sex life).

  354. 354.

    Ruckus

    @Millard Filmore:
    That comment is a link. Read the link.
    CA is very much a two party recording state. Here, your privacy is actually protected, at least to a much larger degree than in a lot of states. There are limits, as there are in most laws but you have more here than in many places. It’s why conservatives are so uptight about CA.

  359. 359.

    Elizabelle

    @TenguPhule: You don’t scare me, and I doubt that would happen. But if you want to fantasize about it, go right ahead. Don’t let us stop you.

    I do not like feeling like I’m picking on you, but a lot of your comments are way too negative and florid. I would not let you get away with them in real life either. We need to push back, for reality and facts.

    My fact is that it’s probably permissible, and safe, to protest somewhere near John Roberts’ house.

    They are not going to respect us for just sitting on our asses at home or screaming on blogs. Real life demonstrations are very good.

  361. 361.

    Gravenstone

    @rikyrah: My preferred description is Trump was selected to the office of President, through the hostile action of enemies both foreign and domestic. Covers all the bases.

  364. 364.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Isn’t drumpf responsible for the sun coming up in the morning? He’s responsible for so many things happening (just listen to him, you don’t even have to ask….) that the list seems to be all inclusive.

  367. 367.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jeremy Peters last night on MSNBC speculated that he wasn’t sure if Democrats could overcome average Americans who don’t like hearing trump compared to the nazis. Just now he said he’s not sure if average Americans care if trump is at odds with his own DNI, and they’re more focused on the good things trump has done, like have a good relationship with Putin.

    I swear the goofy little fuck was made in a lab to annoy and be mocked by on-line liberals. I wonder if I send Media Matters a hundred bucks they’ll put Simon Maloy on Peterswatch

  370. 370.

    Elizabelle

    What are they distracting us FROM with emails about Manafort’s sexytime?

    Is this some kind of coded message to some of the other Republicans in Congress: we know your proclivities too?

    Recall, it was Jane Mayer and Ronan Farrow who broke the story and silence on AG Schneiderman’s activities.

  371. 371.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Teddys Person: Stone and his wife are infamous for this same thing, except Stone’s wife is a willing participant. There are also rumors that Stone, himself, is bi. Personally, I could care less what people do in their private time as long as everyone is consenting and everyone is legal to consent. However, when you make it your life’s work to deny people the freedoms to make those personal decisions while getting your own freak on, then there’s a problem.

  376. 376.

    Teddys Person

    @Miss Bianca: My motto these days comes from Charles Gunn, a charater on the TV show Angel

    “Yeah, and don’t try to tell us there’s nowhere to go but up. Because the truth is, there’s always more down.”

  378. 378.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: I gather he’s writing a book on the American right, and he’s got some version of author’s Stockholm syndrome. I would also be willing to bet that there are well-thumbed copies of those silly Ayn Rand novels on his shelves, and he first read them his sophomore year of high school.

  380. 380.

    Platonailedit

    Things I’ve learned so far this Friday: Michael Cohen has a tape of Trump talking about paying off his affairs, Roseanne is still racist, and Whoopi Goldberg deserves another Oscar for saying “fuck you” to Jeanine Pirro.

    — Chelsea Handler (@chelseahandler) July 20, 2018

  383. 383.

    Jay

    @TenguPhule:

    Cops are becoming “hypervigilant” about “swatting” and “Permit Patties”. They are becoming aware that wingnuttia is not only putting innocent lives at risk, but the cops careers and futures,

    The Stormy Arrest is as an example, a case in point.

    Robert’s isn’t going to call the cops in “fear of his life”, he’s a Supreme with a security detail, he’d be forced to wear a pussy hat for the rest of his life,

    Cops are not going to go in hot on a peaceful demonstration, too many cameras, too many lawsuits,

    You probably havn’t noticed of late, for all your eyore-ing, but the pace of self inflicted kharma’s picked up of late with all the open sourcing of justice.

  385. 385.

    Teddys Person

    @Adam L Silverman:

    However, when you make it your life’s work to deny people the freedoms to make those personal decisions while getting your own freak on, then there’s a problem.

    Like the people who protest women’s health clinics one day, have an abortion the next, and are back outside protesting on day three.

  386. 386.

    Mike in NC

    @Ruckus: Trump was deeply affected by his historic meeting with Kim in Singapore. In fact, ever since then Trump scores a hole in one every time he picks up a golf club. Totally amazing.

  388. 388.

    tobie

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve always felt that Peters must have been a College Republican that the GOP successfully planted in the mainstream media like they did with Jonathan Karl at ABC. Who hired him? Baquet? His Wiki bio doesn’t say when joined the NYT.

  389. 389.

    Miss Bianca

    @Teddys Person: Ah, Gunn! And “Angel”! : )

    I was more a “Buffy” fan, myself, but that show *definitely* had its moments. Quite a few of them, actually.

  391. 391.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    What are they distracting us FROM with emails about Manafort’s sexytime?

    The ZTE Sanctions are DOA today. So Trump’s China bribery proceeds unimpeded.

  393. 393.

    Leto

    @Barbara: @Teddys Person: I feel like neither of you have read the texts, and based on this exchange it’s obvious you haven’t. From what the daughters are texting about, it appears that 1) Mrs Manafort has a brain injury and 2) she didn’t want to do it but felt like she had to to keep her marriage. But I guess it’s easier to just say, “Bitches want money!” Makes for an easier story.

  395. 395.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: Paul Manafort was a “sex addict” who made his wife have sex with other men while he watched. His daughters were not please, his wife hated it

    .
    I… what? Kompromat?

  396. 396.

    jl

    @Platonailedit: Schemes to take control of HUD financed residential properties, intentionally distress them using sketchy and unethical landlord gimmicks and flip them into private equity funds at a fat profit have to take second place to sexytime, and flashier high finance money scandals, preferably involving sundry murderous criminal mobs. Just the way things are. It will come out much later, like a scroll telling the characters fates at the end of a movie.

  397. 397.

    TenguPhule

    @Jay:

    Cops are not going to go in hot on a peaceful demonstration, too many cameras, too many lawsuits,

    I have learned to stop challenging the Universe like that. Inevitably, the Universe strikes back.

  399. 399.

    Ruckus

    @Elizabelle:

    What are they distracting us FROM with emails about Manafort’s sexytime?

    Always a valid question with conservatives. They know that if they were on the receiving end of their policies they would howl at the top of their lungs. Just like they do when some conservative policy affects them directly. They have to find reasons why someone would do the things they all either do or condone for their own benefit that doesn’t lay the guilt upon them. They want to be privileged, to be called better by the law, because there is no other way they will be “on top.” Take the current maladministration. The political asshats who are incompetent, stupid, venial, conservative nobodies, from the top down. This is what the conservative party has always been. As has been said many times they used to hide it somewhat better but this is who they are and who they have always been.

  402. 402.

    Citizen Alan

    @TenguPhule:

    Meanwhile, the saddest most depressing thing about living in the age of shitgibbon is that I now strongly believe that Obama would have lost in 2012 and might will have lost in 2008 if only Romney or McCain had come out and been overtly racist instead of holding back. It was their unwillingness to scream like howler monkeys about Obama being a Kenyan Muslim terrorist sympathizer that kept the deplorables from embracing him the way they have their new king.

  403. 403.

    Quinerly

    @Leto: Manafort’s wife almost died 20 years ago from a horseback riding accident. See that Atlantic article from January, 2018 I linked to in a comment above. It was reported then that he had sought rehab for a sex addiction.

  405. 405.

    Platonailedit

    NEW: There are other tapes of Michael Cohen and other “powerful” individuals that the FBI seized beyond the president but could be embarrassing for the people on the tape and for Cohen, according to a source familiar with the tapes.

    @DanaBashCNN and @GloriaBorger report— David P Gelles (@gelles) July 20, 2018

  406. 406.

    Elizabelle

    @tobie: Who on the NY Times political desk do we think is a non-biased for Republicans reporter?

    Maybe Adam Nagorney? Sheryl whatever?? Who is good over there?

  409. 409.

    Leto

    @Leto: because the edit function won’t work, it also appears he’s a long term spouse abuser. But again:

    she liked the money more than she hated her husband pimping her out

  411. 411.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    So did Jethreen make it out of the White House in time to avoid questions about whether the president knew how blackmail-able his campaign chair was? Poor Sadie never knew she’d be talking so much about sex when she was majoring in Biblical paleontology at Ouichita Baptist

  412. 412.

    Platonailedit

    And there is a reason why I used the term that I did and demanded the release of the #TrumpTapes as opposed to the #TrumpTape. If Michael Cohen is a patriot, then ALL of the tapes should be released to the American people. Now. Too much is at stake. #Basta

    — Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) July 20, 2018

    More the tapes, more the murkier.

  414. 414.

    debit

    @Leto: Seriously. I can only assume that people who would condemn her or assume money was the motive have never been in an abusive relationship. They have no idea how an abusive partner can make you feel so worthless that you would do almost anything to make them act in a “loving” manner again.

  415. 415.

    Corner Stone

    @Jay:

    Cops are not going to go in hot on a peaceful demonstration, too many cameras, too many lawsuits,

    I am not sure where you have been recently, or what news you have been consuming…

  416. 416.

    Barbara

    @Leto: I didn’t say anything of the sort. Here is the link to my single comment on the subject:

    @Barbara:

    I think what happened to her might actually constitute rape and that it’s creepy that their kids know so much about their sex life. That impugns her character or motives how, exactly?

  417. 417.

    TenguPhule

    @Citizen Alan: 2008 probably not, having experienced actual economic anxiety. 2012 was closer then I liked and told me that lots of people are fucking stupid, ungrateful and have short memories. But yeah, the racism is worse then even I thought at the time back then.

    The worst part is I can’t tell if they’ve always been this bad or are recently getting worse.

  419. 419.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @LAO:

    I’m delighted that Cohen apparently liked to tape his conversations but does anyone else find it utterly bizarre that he did? OMG, as a lawyer, I can’t think of a stupider practice.

    Connecting the relationships outlined by various long-form and citizen journo’s between Russian mob members and who they have done business with, one finds out that they cross paths with Michael Cohen.

    That leads me to believe it wasn’t Cohen’s idea to record the phone calls–it was the Russians who ordered Cohen to tape his conversations with Trump.

  421. 421.

    Corner Stone

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I can’t stand to see Peters on MSNBC’s air. If they held a Smug-Off between J Peters and Nick Confessore I think the universe may collapse on itself before either one gave in.

  422. 422.

    Leto

    @Quinerly: My mom had an ice skating accident that left her a different woman. This happened about 20 years ago. Not totally different, but… different. I find it very weird because the same thing happened to my grandmother, her mom. She was involved in a car accident when I was about 2. (It was right after my sister was born and we were all on the way back from the hospital. My grandfather rear-ended a car and she hit her head on the dashboard. Not wearing a seatbelt.) My mom talks about this event as a before and after event. Before: my grandmother was one of the nicest people ever. Very loving and kind. After: she was mean. Just… mean. I only ever knew the mean grandmother, which my mother eternally lamented.

    @geg6: Yeah, it is. This is typically the type of woman most of us here would be trying to help get out of that situation. I didn’t think I needed to use the word most, but apparently I do.

  424. 424.

    jl

    @Citizen Alan: I’m not sure about that. People were not as frustrated with two long economic expansions that produced not noticeable increase in their living standards, and no hope for anything better in the foreseeable future.

    Remember, McCain did try a Roosky/Commie war scare at the beginning of the campaign season, to try to capture the narrative, with the fighting between Russia and Georgia. It flopped and he had to drop it, especially in the face of economic crisis in the US, about which he understood exactly nothing.

    A critical mass of voters were not in a mood to act on their underlying bigotry. And the fresh memory of GW Bush made the argument that conservative white businessmen in particular, and serious daddy white guys in general, are smarter than everyone else a hard sell.

  426. 426.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: I didn’t go back to see if the guy cited his own manifesto, but that would be par for the course.

    Regarding the email you sent the owner/publisher, the response/comments to it were a new level of wow.

    This also made me chuckle:

    The Jew fought from the sewers and storm drains and fought a tactical gorilla style that the German soldier was unaccustomed to . The German soldier was very regimented and often complained amongst themselves that the Americans were also hard to fight for similar reasons . Only at the end of the war , did the German military slightly conform to Gorilla tactics and by then they were mostly a ragtag bunch of old men and boys fighting a gorilla war themselves . Germanys greatest advantage was always their overwhelming superiority in numbers of weapons and weapon technology . The German officers consumed vast amounts of methamphetamines and made many tactical errors , often under the direct order of their drug addicted leader .

    ‘Gorilla style’, eh? I’ve heard it can be difficult to carry out ‘gorilla style’ warfare, but when it works, it drives one’s enemies bananas!!

    /dad joke

    Ah I see I have more reading upthread ahead of me. Who knew Roger Stone is NOT the undisputed slimiest person in the world? Paul Manafort, come onnnn down! You’re the next contestant on “Ew. Ew. Ew!”

  427. 427.

    JPL

    Kristin Davis, the Manhattan Madam who went to prison and was connected to Eliot Spitzer, has reportedly been subpoenaed by Robert Mueller, according to TMZ.
    Davis worked for former Trump aide Roger Stone for a decade.

    Kyle Griffin twitter.

    What is it with men and their love of fake boobs? Being the good mother, I’d point out to my sons pictures of females with fake boobs, and laugh.

  428. 428.

    jl

    @Jeffro: You need a lot of really really big heavyset guys to fight a gorilla style war. They need to good at hard pushing.

  429. 429.

    Leto

    @Barbara:

    that it’s creepy that their kids know so much about their sex life.

    Because it shows you didn’t read the texts. Context; why did they know? Their mother basically broke down and told one of the daughters this out of shame. The one daughter was texting the other, and was basically texting a live running commentary about what their mother was saying. Apparently group sex was a condition for the Manaforts to stay married and Mrs Manafort didn’t want to do it any longer, but knew that would end the marriage. The daughters are 1) processing this new info 2)disgusted at their father and 3) trying to figure out how to help their mother.

    Context.

  430. 430.

    Jay

    @Corner Stone:

    Remember in Dallas, when the Black Nationalist/SovCit ambushed the Police patrolling a BLM Protest March how they gunned down dozens of protestors in the “crossfire”?

    Yeah, me neither.

    Is your purpose the dissemination of paranoia to empower inaction?

  431. 431.

    debit

    @debit: I’m going to add that I am worried for her, even if she’s still with him, even if she’s been supporting him. Can you imagine if every dirty detail of your humiliation was being read and tittered over all over the world? That forever more, you would be the lady whose husband whored her out to strangers. I would be looking for the least painful exit option right about now.

  432. 432.

    Dan B

    @rikyrah: Reading this report abiut a black msn being fired and the report about voters being dropped by former poll tax states are discouraging signs of othering being a success. It’s equally disconcerting that few bystanders get involved. Peer pressure is the only antidote to racism.

    I’m not the kind of person who freezes or looks the other way when there’s an issue that needs to be addressed before it gets worse but I’m regularly shocked at jow many people do freeze. My theory is that a lot of people don’t want to imagine bad things happening because it’s uncomfortable and when they do happen they are unprepared and lost.

  433. 433.

    Corner Stone

    @Jay: It’s just reality that some elements of law enforcement have brought escalated levels of physical violence to situations that did not call for it. And then were not held accountable. I guess we can do a dance off to resolve this impasse, but my knee hurts and I think a majority of recent evidence backs my contention. LEO uses indiscriminate violence/force/terminal force, basically with no recourse.

  434. 434.

    Leto

    @debit: I’m sure conservatives will forgive her if she decides to move on, unlike that vile b-tch HIllary who tried to fix her marriage. Or if she stays and tries to make it work, they’ll say she did the right thing, unlike Hillary who should’ve left that lying cheating dog. No hypocrisy here, why do you ask?

    I honestly hope that Manafort goes to jail forever and that Mrs. Manafort can move on with her life. Regardless of his status she should, but if he’s locked up for eternity it makes it much easier.

  436. 436.

    Dan B

    @Adam L Silverman: Are there so many actors involved with or corrupted by Russian and Russian mob (is there a difference?) money that it becomes impossible to clear enough out to right the ship of state? Has the rot spread so far that we’ll never be the same again? What might tge US be like in the future?

    Rhetorical questions so I guess we’ll just have to wait and find out.

  437. 437.

    Yutsano

    @Shana: @Amir Khalid: The listing isn’t specific on that point. But since a lot of systems around the world operate on very similar principles to the US system it probably wouldn’t be too hard to pick up on how Irish taxes work. Plus the US system does require expats to file and pay especially before returning home. Any country with a decent sized expat community is pretty much guaranteed work for me.

  438. 438.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: @jl: Here we see rare footage of Dr. Silverman teaching an impromptu seminar on low intensity warfare, revolution, rebellion, insurgency, and guerrilla warfare…//

  439. 439.

    Chris Johnson

    @TenguPhule: Yeah but you’re suggesting that Americans avoid taking on aggressive political action for fear that their action will be spun as controversial by owned Russian agents.

    The whole reason I got radicalized to the left was seeing Democrats bending over backwards to appease Republicans, and it was always a con. One step forward, and they’d take three steps back.

    You cannot tell people not to do this on the grounds that it would hurt the discourse. Rules have changed. NRA is a Russian front. What the occupying/quisling forces say about what we do, no longer matters.

  443. 443.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Leto: Wait till you get to the texts where the daughters discuss his killing someone in Ukraine on orders from his Russian paymasters.

  444. 444.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris Johnson: Americans avoid taking on aggressive political action

    the only political action that matters in the end is voting. Aggressively registering voters AZ, south Texas or Florida. Or Nevada or Georgia or Tennessee means more than any show put on metro DC

  446. 446.

    Brachiator

    @Citizen Alan:

    Meanwhile, the saddest most depressing thing about living in the age of shitgibbon is that I now strongly believe that Obama would have lost in 2012 and might will have lost in 2008 if only Romney or McCain had come out and been overtly racist instead of holding back.

    Stuff like this is a waste of time. No matter how strongly you believe this, there is no way of resetting the clock and testing it.

    But apart from this, let me challenge your belief here. In 2008, McCain alienated voters, who simply did not believe that he could rescue the economy. Advantage Obama. Also, I don’t think that McCain (or even Romney) could have been more racist. I don’t particularly care for McCain, but he is honorable about some things. And keep in mind that when he made an earlier presidential run, his opponents tried to slime him going into the South Carolina primary by suggesting that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock. This was a race-baiting lie, but the way that McCain dealt with this suggested that he would no wallow in this kind of crap for political gain.

    But let’s play a little alternative history. Let’s say that McCain had won in 2008 and got re-elected. Would we now be dealing with a President Sarah Palin instead of a President Trump?

  447. 447.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Dan B: Honestly, I don’t know. My professional estimate, which I’ve written about here for over two years, has been that there is significant Russian infiltration for influence purposes of a broad swath of movement conservative and conservative Christian groups with the specific purpose of influence Republican politics in specific and the US in general. There has also been some parallels on the more extreme elements of the left side of US politics too. The Special Counsel, as a result of the counterintelligence investigation he inherited, has clarity on the networks of people and organizations involved.

    In terms of the US, as I wrote the other night: there is no going back to what was (seemed to be?) normal prior to 10 PM EDT on election night 2016. There is only going forward and doing everything possible to ensure that the eventual new normal is as positive as possible.

  448. 448.

    Chris Johnson

    @Citizen Alan:

    Meanwhile, the saddest most depressing thing about living in the age of shitgibbon is that I now strongly believe that Obama would have lost in 2012 and might will have lost in 2008 if only Romney or McCain had come out and been overtly racist instead of holding back.

    That could do with some proof: for all you know it would have helped Obama.

    I’ve been watching a really consistent stream of attempted persuasion where liberals are persuaded at all costs that everybody bad is bad because they’re irredeemably racist: this even though we know that Russian intrusion and attacks on our elections have been huge. You cannot trust the talking points when you don’t know who is feeding them to you. It is in Putin’s direct interest to convince as many liberals as possible that everybody else are racist monsters, while simultaneously arming and encouraging as many racist monsters as he can actually find: and he finds them all over, not just in RedStateistan.

    I’m really, really suspicious of all those who insist America is inherently, majority racist as fuck. I call bullshit. The problem is that the racists are weaponised by the right wing and by Putin in direct collusion, specifically to use as shock troops. They’re to be the Nazi stormtroopers, they are being cultivated, they are NOT the majority, even in demographic areas. Maybe a lot of them but you know a huge proportion of eligible voters in the deep South didn’t even vote, or were disenfranchised?

    (been listening to a new podcast, ‘Trillbilly Worker’s Party’, which are leftist hillbilly Southerners very upset about how the conventional wisdom is that they’re all race-centric rightwing nutjobs: they think it’s a con being perpetrated on them)

  449. 449.

    TenguPhule

    @Chris Johnson: I’m suggesting that this particular method of activism is probably not a good idea. I can see how the story would be spun by the enemy. “They threatened him in his own home, the thugs went after his children”, I know the buttons they would press because its what I would do if I was in their shoes.

  450. 450.

    Barbara

    @Leto: I’m not arguing with you about this. It is creepy however they learned it — that, indeed, they were put in a position where they were forced to know about it. Which in no way impugns their mother’s actions or character. I read what you said about your mother, that is indeed very sad, and I also know people whose lives were changed by brain injuries. That doesn’t make the news about Manafort and his wife something other than deeply unsettling.

  451. 451.

    Leto

    @Adam L Silverman: I read them all, but must have missed that. And I don’t really want to go back to see that. That entire conversation has just killed my soul even further. It’s the end of the day. I have a 90 min ride ahead of me and a need for a few extremely strong drinks.

  452. 452.

    MCA1

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I saw that segment last night, and while it verged on concern trolling, I didn’t take away quite the impression you did. I don’t think he was blaming Democrats for anything. His primary point was Republicans and Drumpf fans are fucking snowflakes, and cannot hear bad things said about their guy and/or cannot be bothered to confront the existential crisis to our democracy happening right now because they can’t live with the discomfort of reality brushing up against their beautiful bubble. So they retreat into defensive mode, because that’s what they’ve been coached to do by rightwing media for 25 years. It’s easier for them to stay in their bubble and claim that if no Republican elected officials are overly concerned about x, then it can’t be that bad, because I’m a Republican and I trust Republican elected officials, ergo Democrats are fear-mongering and overstating things. They don’t go to primary source material because they know it will make them cringe, they watch the MSM and/or Fox who won’t tell them how abnormal all this shit is and talk about active treason in the most anodyne ways possible, and that becomes their take, too.

  455. 455.

    Leto

    @Barbara: Sorry. We’re in agreement. I’m working on 4 hours of sleep, been up since 5am, and reading those text just kind of… sent me over the edge. Again, sorry. Hope you have a great weekend!

  458. 458.

    Immanentize

    @Kristine: Patti Smith’s “12” is one of the greatest cover albums ever put together. I am particularly fond of her version of Dylan’s “Changing of the Guards.” Did you see her singing at the Nobel academy (Hard Rain) accepting the prize for Bob? It is so perfect — she slips up at one point and the audience just applauds…. Very moving.

  460. 460.

    Steve in the STL

    @JPL: the Kevin Abel campaign responding to my question:

    Hey, [Steve in the Wherever], thanks for your feedback. Kevin has been very strong on Trump and support for the special counsel investigation. Donald Trump must be held to account for his embrace of Vladimir Putin and the first step is defeating Karen Handel in November, and Kevin is the only candidate who can beat her. Will you support Kevin this runoff election?

  465. 465.

    Chris Johnson

    @TenguPhule: It suppressed some assholes like Richard Spencer. INcivility in restaraunts etc. caused a hell of a big stir. I think you’re completely wrong, and I too am wondering what kinds of opinion you’ve been consistently pushing. As somebody who worked for Bernie Sanders in 2016 not knowing that Tad Devine aka FUCKING RUSSIAN AGENT was directing his run… and not just his run in the primary, Devine directed Dukakis, Al Gore, and John Kerry…

    …permit me to say Bernie would have LOST just like Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry lost, because it was all a setup from the word go and this Devine fucker has been working this same trick in election after election, very successfully. It was a setup, we were getting used and were going to be totally betrayed, and at this point I’m glad he did lose and that I got to vote for Hillary Clinton and at least put up a good shot of balking all this…

    I guess that experience opened my eyes to the realities of ‘people working for someone other than what they say they are’ so now I’m looking to ability to adapt to the new situations unfolding.

    One of these adaptations is, ‘this activism is not a good idea because the story will be spun by the enemy’ is bullshit. They will say and do anything anyway. Fuck conciliation, the discourse, or how things will get spun. It’s ALL spin.

  466. 466.

    Elizabelle

    @Chris Johnson:

    (been listening to a new podcast, ‘Trillbilly Worker’s Party’, which are leftist hillbilly Southerners very upset about how the conventional wisdom is that they’re all race-centric rightwing nutjobs: they think it’s a con being perpetrated on them)

    That’s funny. They decided not to call themselves Shrillbillies. I may have to check them out.

  467. 467.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Yutsano: we are not. thirty-five comments is huge and unattainable. Dogs are better than cats. The Eagles are the greatest band of all time. Chicago pizza-casserole is not pizza. Anyone who owns a mac is a sucker. Bernie, Bernie, Bernie.

  473. 473.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle: I’m arguing in good faith over what I think is a wrong tactic. You want to name call, that’s on you but I’ve cast no dispersions on you for your opinion.

  475. 475.

    prostratedragon

    @Immanentize: Old family story from decades back. A lawyer friend got an unwelcome surprise in court. He was heard to say, “No, you tell me the truth! Let me do the lying.”

  477. 477.

    TenguPhule

    @Chris Johnson:

    It suppressed some assholes like Richard Spencer. INcivility in restaraunts etc. caused a hell of a big stir. I think you’re completely wrong, and I too am wondering what kinds of opinion you’ve been consistently pushing.

    Targeting a protest at a Supreme Court Justice at their own home is a whole new ball game. And big stirs don’t always work out the way you want them to. I don’t think we want this particular genie to be let loose.

  479. 479.

    Kathleen

    @TenguPhule: Projection much, OfTrump? After all the vitriol you directed at Hillary Clinton? Who exhibits more grace, class an tenacity than you ever will?

  480. 480.

    Dan B

    @TenguPhule: Having been to protests in “good” and “bad” neighborhoods I agree with Elizabelle. It’s quite rare fir the police to use excessive or lethal force. Although when they do it’s seared in the imagination. If, however, a squadron of Black Bloc (sp?) shiwed up at Roberts home all bets are off. When violent agitators showed up is when I’ve seen the police go tear gas, billy clubs, and rubber bullets. There are exceptions, Bloody Sunday, Kent State, etc. but they’re rarer than they seem.

    Now, if Trump’s fantasies come true… but we’re hoping for a Nixon type perp walk.

  481. 481.

    TenguPhule

    @Dan B: My faith in our institutions has been dropping over the last 22 months.

    Call me paranoid, but I just feel like its a disaster waiting to happen. The ratfucking potential just on Roberts side is breathtaking, but yeah, add in a BB crashing of the protesters and its reichstag.

  485. 485.

    Dan B

    @rikyrah: Sounds good to say Russia helped elect Trump but I feel it would be more effective to plant the suspicion. “How much did Russia help Trump” or “Did the Russians throw the election”. The target audience that needs to link Russian meddling and Trump are waffling / on the fence types. The vast majority of liberals already believe Russia hacked the election. A listen to late night shows – Colbert!- shows the loudest applause and shouts to Trump is illegitimate.

  487. 487.

    West of the Rockies

    If nothing else, this once again forces evangelicals to squinch their smug faces and argue that it is okay for white men to cheat on their wives (whom they took in HOLY matrimony). It forces them to at least for a day or so avoid mirrors (and having to look themselves in the face).

  488. 488.

    TenguPhule

    @Dan B:

    “How much did Russia help Trump” or “Did the Russians throw the election”

    Never ask a question unless you’re absolutely sure how the respondent is going to answer.

  491. 491.

    Yutsano

    @West of the Rockies: If I hear one more lame excuse about how God uses imperfect vessels…I’m taking them all to the Marianas trench and dumping them all off. With lead shoes.

    EDIT: SO CLOSE…

  495. 495.

    TenguPhule

    @West of the Rockies:

    . It forces them to at least for a day or so avoid mirrors (and having to look themselves in the face).

    Avoid them? They preen in front of them even more, secure in their moral rightousness, which is a word that means nothing anymore.

  496. 496.

    TenguPhule

    @Yutsano:

    I’m taking them all to the Marianas trench and dumping them all off. With lead shoes.

    Concrete is traditional and cheaper. Also environmentally friendly.

  501. 501.

    Ruckus

    @Dan B:
    The government of Russia or the USSR before that have always been corrupt. In a system that provides little to nothing for everyone and where “They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work,” is a common phrase, illegal money changing hands is how the system works at all. Quite a few men have gotten extremely wealthy, Vlad is at the top of this. They didn’t get there by being nice guys, friends of the environment, public servants, etc. They got to the “top” the same way people have gotten to the top in Russia for ever, the “mob” way. Here, laws have been used to allow a few to make wads of money without having to have to carry a mob ID card. The system of every country varies from “mob” values to rig the government in your personal favor, to systems that actually work for the benefit of the many.
    ETA so close

  510. 510.

    MisterForkbeard

    @germy: Maggie prints what she’s told to print. Especially if it’s true in a technical sense. “It appears to be the only one “. Etc.

  512. 512.

    Miss Bianca

    @Chris Johnson: Wow. You’re even further down the rabbit hole of suspicion than I am. And I’m not saying that’s a *bad* thing. Here’s what I told my Bernie-loving comrades who were tut-tutting me about “unity” when I pointed out that Tad Devine was at the top of Mueller’s evidence list:

    I’m going to make a prediction, which is that evidence will eventually show that Manafort and Devine were still working together, for their Russian paymasters, to bring down the one candidate for POTUS that Vlad truly feared. Maybe not at this trial, but eventually. And before you start blustering at me about conspiracy theories…I’ll just point out that a year ago, a lot of my friends – many of them running around with their hair on fire now screaming “ZOMG Treason!!” – were telling me I was a paranoid conspiracy theorist about Russian interference in the election. But I knew I wasn’t being paranoid then. Let’s just say I have sources.

    Of course, he doesn’t need to know that my “sources” are a pack of jackals… ; )

  513. 513.

    J R in WV

    @eric:

    Plus, you can out [sic] on a defense at trial, you just cannot put on an “I didnt [sic] do it defense.”

    But this is so wrong I can’t even… after “Not Guilty, Your Honor!” in nearly every Law and Order show ever.

    Trials start out with the assumption that the accused is not guilty, the burden is upon the Prosecutor to prove that the accused did do the crime in question. “I didn’t do it” is built into our justice system, for Dog’s sake!

  514. 514.

    J R in WV

    @TenguPhule:

    You are not thinking.

    Protesters at Supreme Court Leader Justice Robert’s home should be lawyers in suits, nuns, ministers, priests and white mothers with babies in arms, candles, singing hymns and swaying in time. With TV trucks in place as they arrive.

    NOT hippies with giant puppet heads!

  516. 516.

    TenguPhule

    @J R in WV:

    Protesters at Supreme Court Leader Justice Robert’s home should be lawyers in suits, nuns, ministers, priests and white mothers with babies in arms, candles, singing hymns and swaying in time. With TV trucks in place as they arrive.

    That could work. Of course it begs the question of where do we find that perfectly organized protest party.

  519. 519.

    J R in WV

    @TenguPhule:

    That could work. Of course it begs the question of where do we find that perfectly organized protest party.

    North Carolina is FULL of that kind of protest party. Rev. Barbour has them meet up at the NC State House.

    We just need to do that in DC too. Easy peasy.

    Just THINK for a minute!

  521. 521.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @Yutsano: I got curious and decided to check the patent attorney/agent roster for expatriates practicing abroad. Turns out that it’s searchable by country, with a few in Ireland, a few in Belgium, more in the Netherlands.

  522. 522.

    California Stars

    Oh Jesus, I just read the Manafort daughters’ text messages. If I follow correctly, his wife sustained lasting brain damage from a car accident and, following this, in her newly vulnerable state, he coerced her into multiple group sex encounters with strangers that scared/disgusted her so much that she drank to excess in order to get through them. Then threatened divorce unless she became a more willing participant. AND, more horrifically, he orchestrated the massacre of Ukranians in order to manipulate the political atmosphere…

    Are there even words in the English language to describe the awfulness of someone like this? “Corrupt” seems inadequate.

  524. 524.

    SectionH

    @California Stars: Dead thread but some ppl may just want to check out what the last posts on a Tbogg were (ahhem, I did).

    The word you’re looking for is Monsters.

  525. 525.

    California Stars

    @J R in WV: I just went to the link that Corner Stone posted above, then enlarged my computer screen as far as I could. It was still pretty squinty. As far as I can tell, other than these weird spreadsheets, the text conversations haven’t been published anywhere else.

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