The demented Twitter troll in the West Wing is having another meltdown. It began last night with an all-caps threat to Iran and continued this morning with a high pitched, Fox News-fueled demand to end the “Mueller Witch Hunt” blah blah blah.
In normal times, there would be three or four posts up on this topic. In these times, it’s just another Monday. Good lord, having a crazy person in the White House is exhausting. Let’s speak of other things.
I am back home after a long weekend in Savannah, which is somehow even more humid than Florida. A person practically needs scuba gear to breathe.
We raced a line of storms home, leaving it in the Georgia dust. It caught up with us early this morning.
My dogs are used to heavy weather, but the continuous thunder and lightning prompted them to seek assurance from humans that the world wasn’t ending.
Rebecca Traister published an interesting piece on Elizabeth Warren in New York Mag: Leader of the Persistence. Sounds like Warren will run for president in 2020, though she doesn’t say so in the piece, of course — she’s got a senate seat to retain this fall.
Warren is focused on 2018, as is proper at this time. But if TV show booking agents want to bring someone in to speak for the Democratic Party, they could do worse than to contact Senator Warren. In fact, they do worse all the fucking time.
Anyhoo, open thread.
rikyrah
Something to make you laugh this morning.
LOL??
Alex Morash (@AlexMorash) Tweeted:
Fox & friends is so dumb they had on the wrong politician this morning ??♂️
They thought they had a Ann Kirkpatrick but they got @teambarbara who hijacked their show to bash Trump. ??? t.co/9nHkmBUhq1 twitter.com/AlexMorash/status/1021357641883414528?s=17
schrodingers_cat
Not a huge fan of Warren’s presidential bid. But all my focus right now is 2018 midterms. Eyes on the prize, people.
rikyrah
2. The bulk of the political coverage for the next 834 days will focus on horse race polling.
At best, this is a distraction
At worst, it creates the false impression that the outcome is predetermined and reduces turnout
This likely happened in 2016https://t.co/dFwuvxQkRp
— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) July 23, 2018
PaulWartenberg
Yah, it was rather stormy last night. my cats aren’t ones to panic, but I couldn’t get into a proper sleep mode because of the ongoing rumbling and roof patter.
oatler.
Come to Arizona in monsoon season! 115 degrees plus high humidity. NHK news on PBS mentioned thirty some Japanese people have recently died in a record heatwave.
rikyrah
???
Armando (@armandodkos) Tweeted:
@JohnKingCNN has just called The Resistance “Bernie Sanders supporters” @neeratanden . You’ve been hijackec by @cnn twitter.com/armandodkos/status/1021012670999351296?s=17
dnfree
We visited Savannah in late March a couple of years ago. The waitress in one of the restaurants told us “Enjoy the weather now–in about two weeks it will become unbearable and stay that way.”
Major Major Major Major
Confused weather in SF lately, but that’s nothing new. Today is chilly, or at least it is right this second, in this part of town.
As for Warren 2020, last poll I saw she saps a lot of support from Bernie, and I like her a lot more, so that’s good.
rikyrah
John Bolton Confirms that Trump is Serious About Making Iran ‘Pay A Price”
by Ed Krassenstein
When President Trump tweets, you don’t always know if he is serious or if he’s half-heartedly joking. This has led many political pundits and commentators to question his state of mind when he took to Twitter last night to tweet the following message to Iranian President Hassan Rouhani:
……………………………………….
Was Trump serious, or was it simply an empty threat meant to make himself look strong after being attacked by the media for being cowardly in the way he handled the summit with Vladimir Putin?
This morning, however, we seem to have an answer, as National Security Advisor of the United States John Bolton released a statement that read as follows:
“I spoke to the President over the last several days, and President Trump told me that if Iran does anything at all to the negative, they will pay a price like few countries have ever paid before.”
While this could also be a bluff on behalf of the White House, in an attempt to convince Trump’s base that he is, in fact, willing to stand up against our adversaries after he seemingly refused to do so with Russia last week, the fact that Bolton released this statement seems to give it a little more credibility.
the Conster
@rikyrah:
Any mention anywhere this weekend in the MSM of Bernie’s campaign strategist being listed multiple times in the Manafort trial’s evidence list? No? Oh.
Bernie Sanders is not only NOT the Resistance, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NEED FOR IT. I hate that mofo with the heat of a thousand suns.
rikyrah
This is sad.
New York Daily News cuts half of its staff
The New York Daily News announced on Monday plans to eliminate half of its newsroom as part of a broader effort to refocus the newspaper.
by Jason Abbruzzese and Claire Atkinson / Jul.23.2018 / 8:38 AM ET
The New York Daily News announced on Monday plans to eliminate half of its newsroom as part of a broader effort to refocus the newspaper.
Daily News staff was notified of the cuts in an email sent by the company’s human resources department that also detailed a new direction for the paper, with an increased focus on breaking news with particular attention paid to crime, civil justice and public responsibility. It will still cover local news and sports, the email said
Major Major Major Major
@rikyrah: oh right. Bolton. Fuck
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
As hard as it is, we need to keep freaking out. As soon as we become numb to this shit, that’s when we lose the country. We cannot let this become normal. Screaming from the rooftops wears us down, and even more so when half of Americans aren’t listening and don’t give a shit, but we have to keep it up. We can reach people. We need to keep ourselves fired up. We must win this fall. If we don’t take back at least one house, I don’t know if this country is going to make it.
cmorenc
Twitler does in fact have increased reason for concern over the Muller probe and its potential outcomes, after his performance in Helsinki last week caused even many purported GOP loyalists to publicly comment about the unacceptable stink of Russian sewer gas Trump had created.
p.a.
Wonder what it would’ve been like if Alzheimered-Reagan had twitter.
FlipYrWhig
I think a Warren run would be a good test for the baseline of gender bias that isn’t specifically attached to Hillary Clinton. I quite like Warren and from when she was a talk-show guest developed a just-shy-of-sexual crush on her. But! She is very, VERY teacherly, and I have a whole cockamamie theory about how people who were bad in school react very strongly negatively to teacherly types, and that this was part of what Hillary-haters hated about Hillary *before* the nonsense about Vince Foster and Benghazi and whatnot. For H. Clinton this has been talked about as “nagging wife,” but I think it’s “disappointed teacher,” a different type of ball-buster. IMHO both Warren and H. Clinton in speeches can read to school-haters as saying sternly “I am very disappointed in you,” and A LOT of people REALLY don’t like that because it gives them flashbacks. The blogosphere is full of good students, so we don’t have this reaction, but we underestimate how many people do. YMMV.
pat
I want someone who can win in 2020. This excludes, in my opinion, both Sanders and Warren.
Amir Khalid
Bianca has discovered that when she sits in my lap, I can’t put a guitar there, and have to pay attention to her instead. Cats is devious.
rikyrah
@the Conster:
Nope.
But, that’s ok. One way, or the other, either as a co-conspirator, or a snitch who got immunity – we will find out ALL ABOUT DEVINE.
And, then nail dear Wilmer with it.
MomSense
@the Conster:
Nope. Also WTF AOC. She goes on Face the Nation with BS to talk about why we need more women in Congress. She is campaigning with BS against women candidates.
I’m so done with them.
Barbara
I liked Savannah better than Charleston, SC, except in the category of food, where Charleston cannot be bested by any city on the Eastern seaboard. It’s such an interesting and graceful city. I went in December, however, when the weather was just perfect.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard’s meeting with Putin was a yuuuuge disaster, so naturally he needs a new whipping boy to distract the cult with. Who could have guessed?
Amir Khalid
@FlipYrWhig:
I notice that you’re not applying your “teacherly type” theory to Barack Obama, who is a teacherly type too.
Baud
I’m still peeved at Warren for lending credence to the rigged primary conspiracy theory.
Baud
@Amir Khalid: That’s why it’s a good test of the misogyny factor.
Haydnseek
So now it’s Iran. Didn’t we all just see this movie? “Fire and Fury, signifying nothing.”
MomSense
@FlipYrWhig:
Warren underperformed Obama in 2012 in Massachusetts! Mainers had to pick up the slack in New Hampshire because Mass needed those volunteers for Warren.
Barbara
@Amir Khalid: It’s a good insight, but I note the ingrained sexism, in which men are considered to be “professorial,” whereas women are “school marms.” Many people felt that Adlai Stevenson was way too much of an egghead, an alternative term for the category, with a slightly different connotation from the disapproving prig who rewards the goody two shoes students and raps the knuckles of all the boisterous and active boys and loud mouthed girls giggling and chewing gum in the corner of the room.
cope
Cool beans, Betty, you’ve got a YT channel.
the Conster
@Baud:
Yes. She was dead to me that day, and I’m in Massachusetts. She also criticized Obama’s speech fees, along with that other loudmouthed fraud who sells books to dipshits. She’s a non-intersectional Wilmerite.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Same here.
Cheryl Rofer
In other news, my modem is threatening to die. I HATE messing with the computer.
pat
I think it’s time to recognize that sexism exists and will not magically disappear before the 2020 campaign. That’s one of the reasons I think the dems need a younger man who can take it to Trump on the campaign trail. Assuming the traitor is still running and not in jail…..
Now I’m off to photograph butterflies and bugs. Sorry for all you folks in hot and humid and stormy weather, western WI is perfect today.
Baud
@the Conster:
I would vote to reelect her. But I’ll hold it against her in 2020 unless she admits she was wrong.
B.B.A.
Cuomo forced the MTA to spend an extra $30 million on redecorating the Battery Tunnel instead of fixing their broken trains and I’m wishing all the candidates for governor could lose.
patrick II
@FlipYrWhig:
I agree with your teacherly theory. So does FOX and Rush (whom I listen to on occassion). They push the “elites think they are smarter and better educated than you but really aren’t because you have common sense line”. Resentment is reinforced. It shows in the republicans I talk to as a type of resentful, insecure self-righteousness. If you disagree with them you are lecturing and being condescending.
They don’t like teacherly women, and they especially didn’t like a teacherly black man.
wkwv
OK, how does the Daily News define “Public Responsibility”?
The Dangerman
@pat:
True.
My last guess was Kamala Harris; I think I’m still there. Maybe it’s just the CA in me.
FlipYrWhig
@Amir Khalid: I don’t know about you but my primary and secondary education was dominated by women, and I think that’s typical. So bad students don’t have flashbacks to being chided by disappointed male teachers because they didn’t have male teachers to disappoint. Like I said it’s a cockamamie theory but nonetheless I feel like it’s an unacknowledged part of why smart and authoritative women underperform in electoral politics in America.
Platonailedit
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): This.
the Conster
@MomSense:
I hope Joe Crowley changes his mind about not running third party. Treating Dems like the enemy and ratfucking them instead of tending to her own business in her own district is a huge red flag. Someone on twitter is calling her “Latina Butina”. Makes me wonder.
wkwv
Also weird flash of invention- a dog crate shaped to look like the Tardis.
Kay
Political media hate Warren. They’ll be as bad about her as they were about Clinton.
She doesn’t talk to them enough, or something. Expect endless coverage of the fake Pocahontas scandal, is all I’m saying.
Baud
@the Conster: I disagree with that. He lost fair, and primary losers should support the winner.
Yarrow
I met what I’d like to think is not a unicorn yesterday, but very well may be: a 60-ish white man, self-described “hard core Republican” who is done, done, done with Republicans. He’s pissed off about what Trump has done and mad at Republicans for aiding and abetting him. Couldn’t stop talking about how awful the tax plan is. Big giveaway to rich people and screws everyone else. Ditto the tariffs. Said, and I quote, “We’ve had our chance and we screwed it up. We need to step back and let women and young people and people of color take over. They can’t possibly do worse than we’ve done. Hopefully they’ll do a lot better” His wife was laughing and nodding along with him as he said that. I’d guess she’s heard it before.
MomSense
@FlipYrWhig:
We are testing this out in Maine’s gubernatorial race right now.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster: Don’t worry BS chorus will say that you are jealous because she is young and attractive. See the teacher hypothesis about Warren in this thread.
FlipYrWhig
@patrick II: Remember when Ted Cruz said that Democrats were the party of Marge and Lisa Simpson? “Disapproving” and “condescending” are important adjectives in the mass psychology over on that side. But I particularly think it’s tied to dormant memories of school. (To be fair, I have a lot of school-based theories, because it’s the environment in which I function best.)
Barbara
@the Conster: She is getting way ahead of herself, that’s for sure. I think Sanders may be using her as something of a token, to counter the very evident lean in his supporters to white men. Ocasio also seems to be repeating the mistake that Crowley himself made — by ignoring his own district in favor of doing other things. But mostly, I am guessing that Sanders initiated this jaunt, not Ocasio.
kindness
I could support Senator Warren for President. The question is, if she runs how does Jill Stein try to sink her? (we won’t discuss Bernie’s mensches)
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: He is not a unicorn, the press doesn’t interview people like him, that’s all. Hence creating that perception.
the Conster
@Baud:
I agree with that too, but her win was largely due to accusing him of doing what she’s doing now – not paying attention to the constituents in their district, and she hasn’t even won the seat yet. Girl needs some better advice and unhitch from that fraud.
tobie
@FlipYrWhig: The teacher-complex is an interesting theory. It fits with the complaint I’ve heard about Warren from the right that she sounds like a “school-marm.” Obama was criticized relentlessly for being too “professorial,” so I think you may be on to something. Those on the right who did badly in school hate those who remind them of school.
Baud
@Yarrow:
I visit Reddit. It has a big Bro presence. They were all in for Sanders in 2016, and then Trump (or at least anti-Hillary, although I think a lot of that was bots).
Anyway, when I read some of the Trump related posts that make the front page there now, it almost seems like Juicers have taken over the joint. Still an anecdote, but hopefully a good omen.
gingergene
Longtime lurker popping in to say I hope you went to Leopold’s. The bourbon chocolate flavor they have this month is pretty awesome. Also, don’t visit in July. Or August. Or early September. Or late September sometimes. October’s usually pretty safe.
Then again, this past January we got snow that stuck around in some places for the better part of a week, so who knows what’s going on with the weather anymore. (Thanks, Obama!)
Barbara
@Yarrow: Well, I didn’t talk to someone that strident this weekend, and I didn’t ask him how he voted, but a person in the same demographic told me how much his wife hated Trump, and that, as a farm operator, he was looking at tariffs now eating up most of his income for this year, that these tariffs were pointless and didn’t even help the real trade issues we have around intellectual property.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Winners of D primaries should not emulate St of Vt.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodingers_cat: Good point: Ocasio-Cortez doesn’t push “tough teacher” buttons. I’m not sure what Team Red is going to use against her: my friend-of-a-friend raging Trumpist on FB, usually a reliable gateway to what the hive mind is attempting to think over there, was working on labeling her as “crazy” from some funny-face freeze-frames.
Baud
@the Conster: I agree.
Betty Cracker
@pat: We all know sexism exists, but it’s hard to parse out how much of the 2016 result was due to generic sexism and how much was exacerbated by the 20-plus year campaign of vilification against Hillary Clinton in particular. Any other woman, including Warren, won’t have been ceaselessly smeared for literally decades prior to the election. And even with that baggage, it took voter suppression and Putin shenanigans to drag Trump over the Electoral College finish line while losing the popular vote by three million!
FlipYrWhig
BTW actual teachers who are women perform fairly well electorally in local races near me. People in general trust and respect teachers. But I feel like there’s something that flares up the higher-profile the race.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Seconded.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Don’t forget Comey!
Betty Cracker
@FlipYrWhig: “Crazy” seems to be the theme Fox News is running with. Ocasio-Cortez is the new New Black Panther Party, according to State TV. The jury’s still out on her, as far as I’m concerned. She’s said some conciliatory things, and she’s said some tone-deaf things. But attempting to shoehorn any one person into the “future of the Democratic Party” role is folly, IMO. It varies so much from state to state and even within states.
@gingergene: I didn’t get to Leopold’s — next time!
rikyrah
@the Conster:
UH HUH
UH HUH
tobie
@Baud: I’m irritated at Warren for lying about TPP (i.e., “It was negotiated in secret,” “we didn’t have a chance to review the agreement” etc.).
By the way, has anyone ever looked at this Wikipedia table comparing total combined individual taxes (federal, state, local) in most countries? It’s quite interesting. If you live in a high tax state, you are likely paying just as much, if not more, in taxes than people in Germany and France. The chart doesn’t account for property taxes, which in Europe are nominal to non-existent, whereas in NY, NJ, CT, and municipalities like Baltimore are sky high. This had me thinking: we pay so much in taxes and yet have such an impoverished social safety net because we spend tons on our military. Changing the balance of military and social spending just a bit would make a huge difference in quality of life.
rikyrah
@Kay:
She treats them with the contempt that they deserve .
Gravenstone
@Amir Khalid: People react notably differently when being ‘lectured’ by a man versus when a woman is providing the same treatment. Gender and role bias is indeed a pernicious thing.
And yes, the scare quotes above are intended.
schrodingers_cat
@tobie: She is LTT, facts matter less to the ideologically pure. In that respect they are similar to the tea party.
Yarrow
@FlipYrWhig:
They may not have to use anything since she’s on video saying Kansas voters are going to “flip this seat red.”
Link.
It stayed up on Sanders’ twitter account for a day or so before it was taken down.
Louise B.
Our society has vast amounts of hostility toward old women who have the temerity to ask for or exercise power.
Shell
Ms. Cracker, did anything interesting in Savanah? Any good restaurants?
gwangung
@tobie: Not to mention that a lot of the efforts to make sure users of the social safety net are “accountable” actually cost way more money and catch very few misuses…
MomSense
@tobie:
What pisses me off is how the left attacked Obama for TPP but refused to acknowledge that Warren, Brown, Sanders, etc. were pandering to their constituencies and doing massive fundraising off of lying about TPP.
And I know this is unpopular here but the fucking obsession with “good paying manufacturing jobs” is fucking sexist. No, you don’t have to wear a hard hat and carry a lunch pail in order to be paid fairly. I don’t care if someone is a nail tech, line cook, server, home health aid, or a bank teller – they all deserve good pay for their jobs.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
I honestly admit that I underestimated the misogyny.
But, as we have discovered post election, the number of men shaping the election narrative during 2016 that refused to call out Dolt45, because they had similar women’s issues.
Uh huh
Uh huh
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: I’ve not met someone in that exact demographic (60-ish white male) who has flipped that hard. The ones I know have doubled down or claim they’re “Independents” now, not Republicans.
@Barbara: Interesting observation about the intellectual property. I think the tariffs are going to hurt farmers and thus Republicans in farm country.
@Baud: Interesting observation. I think a lot of that sort of stuff is happening and the media just isn’t seeing is or refuses to see it.
B.B.A.
@Yarrow: Red as in communist? someday we’ve got to get this political color situation sorted out.
germy
@Amir Khalid:
Cats can’t get a break. If they ignore their people, they’re standoffish. If they’re affectionate, they’re devious.
Gravenstone
@FlipYrWhig: The word ‘socialist’ will be in heavy rotation, accompanied by intentional conflation with ‘communist’. It’s been their most basic attack for 70+ years.
Baud
@rikyrah: It wasn’t worth destroying there country over, but the Today show is much better with Matt Lauer gone.
tobie
@gwangung: Isn’t that the truth? Republicans sure know how to drive up costs just to hurt the poor.
different-church-lady
Heh… we crack us up!
Louise B.
OT: was at the gym this morning and happened to glance up at the bank of TV sets during my warm up. Trumps all caps rant about Iran was being touted on Fox new as a BOLD statement. Oh good lord . . . .
Yarrow
@B.B.A.: No idea. The Democratic Socialists use red as their color so some speculation that’s what she meant. She hasn’t clarified last I saw.
My impression is she’s not ready for prime time. She’s getting bad advice or refuses to listen to good advice or something. She’s doing dumb things like going to Kansas to stump for others when she hasn’t even been elected once to Congress. As others have observed upthread, that’s the same mistake Crowley made, not tending to the district at home. She also doesn’t support other women and women of color, since she’s actively campaigning against one, so her words don’t match her actions. Leads to distrust.
Her rush to partner with Bernie in campaigning against women leads me to think she’s got more in common with his ratfucking role than was seeing before her primary election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yup.
I’m a fan of Warren, though I’m ambivalent about her as a national candidate. I do have a fantasy that she has a 23 and me test she’s holding back like a long form birth certificate.
Gravenstone
@Louise B.: Oh, it’s a bold statement, just not what they think it’s about. It was a blaring siren pointing to Trump’s rapidly diminishing mental state.
Betty Cracker
Here’s the incident on Fox & Friends mentioned upthread where they booked the wrong guest and got schooled — hilarious!
germy
@Yarrow: She was doing fine until bernie started grinning behind her.
There were a whole bunch of interviews after her primary where it was clear she refused to be baited into “dems in disarray” or “progressives vs. neoliberals” and I was impressed. I still have hopes for her.
different-church-lady
@MomSense: I get what you’re saying, but the reason for the relentless focus on manufacturing jobs is that we’ve shipped almost all of them overseas. So people in this country who are suited to manufacturing are just shut out.
If the power barons could figure out how to ship the cleaning and cooking and nursing and bank teller and auto repair jobs overseas, they’d quite happily kill those jobs in America too.
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense: I am also super tired of the obsession with lunch-pails. It seems like a mix of sepia-toned nostalgia and Marxist theory about how the proletariat is eager to be radicalized. Maybe in England in the ’80s the coal miners were leftist. I don’t think that’s the politics of American coal country, and not because the Democrats stopped trying to connect with them, but because they tried it long enough to realize it had stopped working. When Jimmy Carter ran for president “born-again Christians” were a key *Democratic* bloc. No one thinks that’s promising territory for our side anymore. It’s the base of the other side. And white people who hold dirty jobs aren’t withholding their votes from Democrats because they’re disappointed in them for not doing enough for them or not talking to them enough; when they vote they vote for Republicans because they like Republicans. Let’s stop chasing them around. They’re just not that into us. Find a different way to win.
Josie
@tobie: I think this is a very important point which Democrats need to address.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That would be hilarious if Warren has the receipts. I don’t know how she’d do nationally either, but I do like Warren.
Miss Bianca
@Yarrow: What I can’t figure out is, in what sense did she mean the term ‘red’? Red as in “Red State” or red as in “Commie Red”? For that matter, I still can’t figure out how “red” got to mean “right-wing” instead of “left-wing”.
ETA: @B.B.A.: Oops. Guess I’m not the only one who was puzzled!
tobie
@MomSense: I will confess that Bryce’s first viral campaign video showing him in a hard hat working at a construction site turned me off, since it seemed to play into the idea that the working class is predominantly white and male. To be fair, he is an ironworker so this is part of his identity, and the ad was evidently effective in pulling in donations, so I guess this stereotype has resonance. I’ve come to recognize my political instincts are off–I like wonks and have an allergy to populism and the supposed ‘voice of the people.’
FlipYrWhig
@germy: Agreed. My sense is that organizer-activist types across the country got really excited about bringing her to their district, and she was so flattered she’s been obliging, so it’s not so much that she’s barnstorming because *she* wants to get her name out there as that she’s trying to help build buzz. (IMHO she’s still too locked into the “if we lay out a progressive agenda with passion everyone loves it and we win!” theory that’s super common online but doesn’t pan out in very many places.)
different-church-lady
@Yarrow:
No, you need to GET A FUCKING GRIP AND BECOME SANE, AND THEN PARTICIPATE SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE ONLY JUST NOW FIGURED OUT ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY.
Jesus Christ in a ziplock freezer bag, even in defeat he’s seeing this through the eyes of competition and othering.
trollhattan
@Louise B.:
Thought it was kinda weird he’s basically recycling his NK threats, but then recalled Bolton and the good ol’ axis of evil, two of the three who remain axis-y. Going after Iran is probably Johnny’s reward for tolerating the Putin blowjob.
FlipYrWhig
@tobie: In all honesty I will be happy with this facial-hair moment subsides. It strikes me as so much cosplay.
different-church-lady
@Yarrow: I cannot put my finger on what, but something about her whole phenomenon is making my bullshit detector flash furiously.
ETA: @FlipYrWhig:
Maybe that’s part of it — darling of the online left = instant distrust here, based on years of experience.
Yarrow
@Miss Bianca: Blame Tim Russert. I remember watching him as he labeled Dem states “blue” and Repub states “red” in the 2000 election. For some reason it stuck. You are correct that it’s a reversal of the way it used to be perceived, communist (left) = red.
El Caganer
@MomSense: Agree that the ‘manufacturing’ thing puts a straitjacket on discussion of jobs.
kbuttle
@Baud:
Yep – the moment she said “Of course it was rigged” was Warren blindly closing the door on any ambitions beyond her senate seat. Or better be.
Ian
@pat:
Based on?? I do not want either of them to run all that much, but is there some evidence for this assumption?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Me too. And my charisma meter is apparently broken. George W Bush repulsed me from the get-go, a smarmy douchey overgrown fratboy with a crushing sense of entitlement you (at least I) could all but physically feel though the TV screen, and Bill Clinton is my least favorite of all the Dems of my adult life. I liked and like Gore, Kerry and HRC, and Obama’s no-drama and low-key ironic attitude– “his professorial aloofness”– was one of the things I liked about him.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: a lot of commenters here say the same thing. I think Cole does too.
Amir Khalid
@Miss Bianca:
It does seem to be a uniquely American thing. Elsewhere on Earth red still means the left and blue still means the right.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: This is purely anecdotal, but on several subreddits I follow whenever someone is a massive asshole I check their recent post history.
100% of the time, they’re on /r/The_Donald often and are usually putting in some serious effort on literally crazy rightwing tilt in /r/news. On Reddit the “stupid”, “asshole” and “Trump cultist” Venn diagram is just a bunch of concentric circles.
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: Accidental association in the aftermath of the 2000 presidential election. There was a popular county map of the vote that used blue D / red R and it sparked a lot of writing about Blue and Red America.
Baud
@Amir Khalid: The colors are reversed because we don’t use the metric system.
Yarrow
@different-church-lady: Give him time. It was very interesting talking to him. He has left the Republican party but I don’t know if he’ll go so far as to vote Dem in 2018. This is obviously very new for him because he described himself as a former hard core Republican. He was a true believer. And now he’s not.
When the scales fall from one’s eyes it can be very disorienting. Everything he thought was true isn’t true. He needs support and help to get there. Yelling at him that he isn’t doing enough fast enough, and why were you so dumb for so long isn’t going to do it. I actually thought it was a good sign that he saw that his “group” was part of the problem. That’s a good sign. A lot of white men in his age group will never admit that.
Republicanism is like a cult. I think it’s smart to think of people who leave it as leaving a cult. It’s a very disorienting and strange experience, from all accounts. The real world has to seem very odd when you’ve been in a cult for years or decades.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
I don’t really think she’s being devious, of course. I’m glad that she reckons my attention is worth competing for.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Me too. And I recently met Al Gore on a plane, and he has charisma through the roof, in actual fact.
brantl
@schrodingers_cat: Why?
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve always assumed they were being facetious. I don’t think anyone literally means white males should be disenfranchised.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady:
Me too, starting with her ad that everyone was so thrilled by. The indignant “he doesn’t even live here” — yeah, because Congress meets in Washington, DC.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: An ad on this site just told me that the Jewish future depends on me. I would like to apologize in advance to all the Jewish Juicers for the inevitable plagues.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: I don’t think the quoted republican thinks that either. I don’t know if facetious is the right word—intentionally hyperbolic perhaps.
Mostly I just don’t see why one should yell at him in all caps for echoing what many people on our side say, like, verbatim.
Yarrow
@zhena gogolia: I remember seeing Al Gore on one of the late night shows, maybe Jay Leno, in one of his first appearances after the 2000 election had been decided. Probably after the inauguration and well into 2001. He looked like a completely different person. Relaxed, happy, funny. I remember I was watching it with someone and both of us were saying things like, “Who’s this guy? Where was he during the campaign?” He obviously had a lot of charisma in him, but somehow it wasn’t very evident during the campaign.
Gelfling 545
@FlipYrWhig: I have always believed that the animus towards teachers and education in general here was largely based on people who hated school and never got over how unfair Mrs. Magillicuddy was in grade 6. Since in the US teachers are still mainly women you get, I imagine, a carryover to any female figure in authority.
MomSense
@different-church-lady:
Could also be the woman of the people swears by $20-25 lipstick and then it flies off the shelf at Sephora. Uses the same alternative facts about unemployment.
Just like with iron stache, we need to be a bit more discerning than one fucking well produced campaign video.
Miss Bianca
@Yarrow:
Yeah, I hear you. Myself, I have a tendency to do the “no shit, Sherlock!” thing when confronted with a sea-change of heart like that. Have to keep reminding myself to be *delighted* when someone chooses to wake up and face reality, rather than dissatisfied that they didn’t do it sooner.
schrodingers_cat
@brantl: We need to win 2018 elections first all talk of 2020, is a distraction. I don’t agree with the LTT tilt that Warren’s positions have. Nor did I like her adding her voice to the rigged primary chorus of BS supporters.
BretH
Speaking of weirdos and Bros, anyone familiar with Caitlin Johnstone? Someone on Facebook had a bunch of replies with virtual chin scratching and sage nods when he posted this weird article.
Deliberate and willful ignorance is a powerful thing.
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cool–I’ve got a soft spot for Kerry, too. I once mentioned on BJ that I would be happy if Kerry decided to run in 2020 because I think he is the politician who could repair our reputation abroad, but everyone said that’s a bad idea. So, yet again, I learned my political preferences are completely off.
Gelfling 545
@pat: I agree with you. I hate it but I agree. Another factor is Trump’ s manner toward women which will put any female candidate in the position of having to be regarded as “shrill” or stoically trying to ignore his demeaning behavior.
I saw that n FB that Wanda Sykes said that first she wanted a female president; then she thought ok, maybe another black man; but now she just wants a president who’s actually American.
LAO
Manafort trial update. Looks like we’ll know today who the 5 witnesses granted use immunity are:
different-church-lady
@Yarrow:
I’m not yelling at him for not doing enough. I’m frustrated that he is over-correcting. He doesn’t have to exile himself. Saying “my group needs to go away and let other groups take over” is just changing from one cult to another. It’s not an act of enlightenment, it’s an act of shame.
zhena gogolia
@Yarrow:
Well, I’m the weird person who thought he was extremely attractive through the whole campaign. I liked Kerry too. I’m attracted to people with brains.
Captain C
@the Conster: Was it in this thread?
I don’t know if this all checks out, but if so, it doesn’t seem like she’s on the level. If I was in her district, I’d start considering voting for Crowley on the WFP line even if he says he’s not running.
Thankfully, I have a reasonably good candidate (Nydia Velazquez) to vote for in the general.
Elizabelle
@BretH: Can’t speak to the article, but Caitlin is female. “About” section confirms that.
Caitlin is probably a variation of Kathleen or Katherine. I think it’s Irish or Scottish, but not sure.
Gin & Tonic
@LAO: Keep us updated, please. Some of us (like me) have a real interest in Manafort.
sukabi
@p.a.: probably not much different than it was. The difference being:
1) Reagan was used to delivering lines that were fed to him and was happy to do it.
2) He had a manager (Nancy) that cared about their image and protected it diligently. No way she’d have let him tweet it away.
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: Fear of Communism was so intense for so long in the US that our left party would never consent to using red. Similarly our Labor Day could never be on May 1. The associations that stuck had to have no such connotations.
FlipYrWhig
@Gelfling 545: Agreed, but I want to carve out an exception of some sort. I don’t think Gillibrand sets off the same alarm bells, for instance, or Duckworth. Then again, maybe the machine hasn’t quite cranked up for them yet. On the Republican side there are people like Michele Bachmann and Marsha Blackburn who don’t set off the same alarm bells. Maybe church ladies and cheerleaders go through a different neural pathway? So don’t think it’s ALL women in authority but some subset of women in authority. I dunno, these wrinkles are why the theory is going to stay cockamamie.
the Conster
@BretH:
This is full blown Russian propaganda, and Katrina Vandenheuvel’s husband, Stephen Cohen, is a long time Putin apologist and publisher of The Nation, who has done nothing but push Russian propaganda.
El Caganer
@Gelfling 545: I think I was really lucky that my bosses for the last 20 years of my work life were all women, including several WOC. It’s made it a whole lot easier to look at what people actually say and do – if I start thinking irrelevant bullshit, I can catch myself before I do or say anything really stupid.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: ok, but then it’s an act of shame that is rather popular with liberals.
Miss Bianca
@LAO:
Oh, boy, oh boy! *Bounce, bounce*. Hope you and Adam and Cheryl are around to provide learned commentary on the unveiling!
I have a tiny virtual sum on one of them being Tad Devine.
Also, I am sure you or someone here has had to answer this question before, but what exactly is “use immunity”, as opposed to “immunity”?
Jeffro
Warren would be interesting in the primaries…her lecturing-ish mannerisms would almost instantly make the other candidates seem even more appealing. So, good for her and good for us, I guess.
gwangung
@Captain C: I don’t think it’s wise for AOC to be campaigning out of her district, nor to be so visible opposing a gay and WOC candidate.. However, the person she’s campaigning for is part of the general faction that she’s a part of and she’s stated that she will support wholeheartedly the winner of that primary.
the Conster
@Captain C:
Yes, that’s it exactly. I’ve been interested in following that trail about all of her claims that don’t check out too. It’s really weird. All I know is that I jumped on her train, heard the first announcement (picking an unnecessary fight with Tammy Duckworth) then got off at the first stop. I’m done not assuming the worst. I want to see everyone’s tax returns.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: @Betty Cracker: Thank you. Since I actually talked to him I can report that he was disappointed and somewhat confused by what was going on. It really felt like he’d had a “scales falling from the eyes” experience but the new world he found himself in was bewildering and he was disoriented.
@different-church-lady: It’s the act of someone who has realized he’s been in a cult. That’s how I’d describe the conversation with him and kind of how he talked about it, although he didn’t use those words. He needs to reorient himself. I think he’s in the first part of that, so his response seems extreme and the opposite of what he believed before. It was kind of funny to watch his wife as she was laughing and smiling as he was saying all this. I think she’s been working on him.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
UH HUH
UH HUH
LAO
@Miss Bianca:
There are 2 types of immunity: derivative use and transactional. The following is the definition found in the US Attorney Guide:
ETA: In my experience, the Feds really only offer witnesses use immunity. If they are willing to go farther, than the government offers a DP (decline to prosecute). Which are like unicorns. In 20 years I’ve only managed 2 DPs. So, either they’re rare or I’m a shitty lawyer (or both!).
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major: And I see that as a problem.
We don’t have a old white-people problem. We have an “Too many old white people think being assholes or worse is the natural makeup of their cultural identity” problem.
Miss Bianca
@BretH:
*checks out link*
*comes back smh*
*wondering, “when did people get this stupid? Or have people *always* been this stupid and somehow I just failed to notice?”*
Amir Khalid
The big news in world sports today is Arsenal FC and Germany midfielder Mesut Özil retiring from die Mannschaft at the premature age of 29 — or more precisely, his reason for doing so. Özil said he had been treated with racism and disrespect by people in the German Football Federation over his decision to meet Turkish President Recep Erdogan who was visiting London in May, as well as Germany’s dreadful World Cup performance in June…
A Ghost To Most
@Yarrow: Let’s hope he is not the only one, and not a unicorn.
rikyrah
Did he speak up this much about proven traitor Mike Flynn?
Rand Paul to ask Trump to revoke Brennan security clearance
Updated 10:53 AM ET, Mon July 23, 2018
Immanentize
@LAO: Good old Use Immunity….
Gin & Tonic
@the Conster: I’ve pointed out before that Stephen Cohen has been a fellow traveler since the Brezhnev era.
rikyrah
@Miss Bianca:
I have to admit, I’m looking forward to it too. :)
FlipYrWhig
@rikyrah: Remember when he was a libertarian? Aren’t libertarians supposed to think that state secrets are tyrannical something something liberty?
Aleta
I love the video.
from II. Keep me fully glad …
from June 1913 Poems II. Keep me fully glad …
by রবীন্দ্রনাথ ঠাকুর Rabindranath Tagore
the Conster
@Gin & Tonic:
He, Wilmer and Trump all hold the same anti-Nato positions.
Miss Bianca
@LAO: Oh…so, they are still liable for criminal prosecution, just not for any part in the crimes they are testifying about? Or would that be a “pleading guilty to lesser charges” in the crimes they are testifying about?
@rikyrah: I know, I feel kind of like a ghoul…till I remember just what it is that bastard has been accused of doing.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: fwiw I largely agree with you, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page
Kelly
Perfect summer weather on tap for the Willamette Valley. Highs in the 90’s lows around 60. The only cloud on my horizon is the chance of smoke. The damned grass seed farmers are still allowed to burn some fields but only when the wind blows it towards my neighborhood. Completely unpredictable and ruins a half dozen summer afternoons every year.
El Caganer
@rikyrah: That’s nuts. Not a Brennan fan, but I think he’s got a whole lot better understanding of what is and is not a national security issue than Paul the Lesser.
LAO
@Miss Bianca: well, no if the government obtains evidence of the witness’ criminal conduct from sources other than the witness’ testimony — they can be prosecuted for committing the subject crime. It’s fairly rare, but “use immunity” is not a free ride, it’s a strict construction of 5th Amendment right to not to be a witness against oneself — transactional immunity is a get jail free card.
Yarrow
@cope: You made me go look. Betty, have you posted this ADORABLE video before with Badger and the mop? The little barks are so cute.
Miss Bianca
@LAO: Ah, now I’m grokking! Thanks for the clarification!
Damn…so whoever these five are, they have probably got some shit in their kitbags that they *could* be prosecuted for, would be my (partial, prejudiced, and ignorant) laywoman’s take on it.
Amir Khalid
@FlipYrWhig:
A person who commits to ethical principle only as a tactic of the moment can’t really be said to have an ideology.
Immanentize
@Miss Bianca: I’ll take the use immunity question!!
There are two types of immunity that a prosecutor can grant — “Use and derivative use immunity (called “Use Immunity” for short) or “Transactional Immunity” The first type is the normal offered by prosecutors and the second is like a Unicorn of the Law. I’ll try to emplain —
Use and derivative use immunity means that the prosecutor cannot charge you with any crime you specifically testify about — nor can they charge you with any crimes they figure out from that testimony (that’s the derivative use part). But wait! They can charge you with those other crimes if they have an independent source of evidence (say another snitch) that allows them to develop enough evidence without the testimony you provided. That’s a bit complex, but here is an example. If you were testifying about a robbery, but someone was shot and you had use immunity for the robbery — but you testified as to where the gun used was ditched — they could not use your testimony as the basis for going and finding the gun and then charging you with a gun offense (like felon in possession or some such). However, if some citizen was fishing and hooked the gun in a pond, and your prints were all over it, they could use the gun to help prove you were a felon in possession. Because they did not find the gun in any way as a result (derivative use) of your testimony. Got it?
Now transactional immunity means the prosecution agrees not to charge you with any crime associated with the whole of the transaction(s) about which you testify — regardless of whether they have an independent source of information or evidence. So, in the example above, the prosecution couldn’t charge you with the felon in possession if you has transactional immunity. You would be free and clear on all charges that might be related to the criminal “transaction.” The only person I really remember ever getting transactional immunity in federal court was — wait for it — Monica Lewinsky.
One last deal. No matter what kind of immunity you have, prosecutors can always charge you with perjury (lying under oath) if you lie about material details or even if you leave out some material details that really ought to have been included in an answer. This is how many “too clever” defendants who get immunity end up doing long time.
Immanentize
@LAO: Well, my answer is longer….
Even if yours is more clear….
Steve in the ATL
@rikyrah: “the fact that Bolton released this statement seems to give it a little more credibility.”
Lol.
Steve in the 407
Miss Bianca
@Immanentize: Wow, Imm, thank you! I love how all you learned lawyer jackals have been helping us out on the legal issues and strategies at play here!
MrSnrub
@Yarrow: My understanding is they used to alternate which party was red and which was blue, every presidential election, but 2000 cemented it.
LAO
@Immanentize: Well, I cheated by using some one else’s definition. I do like how with both used the unicorn example!
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Still on vacation here — Seattle, then south to Portland and SF — and trying to minimize the news rage. But unfortunately heard an interview with Madeline Albright so got the view of Helsinki from a sane person and it’s frankly terrifying. T took no notes. We don’t know what he agreed to. He likely has no idea what he agreed to either. But Putin is implementing it, whatever it is.
If I need a Russian visa to get back into PA at the end of the trip, I’ll let you know.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: I don’t know, I don’t think I would hold her lipstick against her. She is good looking and takes care of her appearance, so fucking what?
ETA: $22 for a lipstick is somewhat steep but its not an item one buys every day.
Aleta
@FlipYrWhig:
Elizabeth Warren Is Getting Hillary-ed
Rebecca Traister, Sept 2017
Miss Bianca
@LAO: @Immanentize: OK, one last question here, because I’m a pest…
So, recently, I had occasion to be a witness at a trial (which went our way, btw, yay!). You have to swear, under oath, that you’re not *going* to commit perjury. So, what happens if/when it becomes obvious that a witness – or, hell, in this case, it was the *plaintiffs* – are lying their asses off in their account of events? Do they/can they get charged with perjury later?
FlipYrWhig
@Aleta: It’s funny–I think the Bernie Bros fully expect that working class white people love Elizabeth Warren because she’s a progressive who takes the fight to blah blah yadda yadda unlike that milquetoast corporate neoliberal Hillary Clinton. In my view a Warren run would play out very similarly to a Hillary run. It’s not about a choice of policies, it’s about a collection of stereotypes about women, power, and discipline that A LOT of working class white people hold, whether they’d admit it or not (especially if you accept my school theory).
L85NJGT
@different-church-lady:
Facts have a strange persistence:
Protectionists aren’t going to tariff their way out of this box. Shit on Clinton and Obama all you want about job retraining, but those jobs are gone and never coming back. Das Kapital should be mandated to provide for the social, economic and environmental justice costs on the affected communities. Blaming the Chinese and Mexicans, and nostalgia about the good old days, gives them cover to do nothing.
@FlipYrWhig:
I don’t know when the idea of white male industrial labor became the end all. There is not much consideration of the divide between the AFL and CIO, or US organized labor history in general. There have always been rifts between skilled and unskilled, over race and gender, etc.
Eastern coal country was solidly union and Democratic until the jobs went away – blame automation and resource depletion. In the UK, the union and Labour pulled down Heath, and then dithered away the opportunity to close pits on good terms for the miners and their communities. Given the increasing levels of societal subsidy needed to keep the UK coal economy afloat, it’s not surprising NUM members became radicalized. It was the only ideological underpinning that could be used in defense of the status quo.
Immanentize
@Miss Bianca:
Rarely. Usually the feeling that losing the case is enough of an answer to lying in a civil case. Remember, there are no prosecutors hanging around watching civil trials. If, however, it was truly egregious and pissed off the civil case judge enough, s/he might refer it over to the prosecutors for investigation (they could also punish the lie through a contempt finding from the judge alone but that is super rare). If the defendant in the case really wants to, they could contact the prosecutor’s office and ask them to look into it. But it really has to be a lie that endangers folks or is based on race or some other illegal animus. If it was just “I saw it different” and it is what the original disagreement was about (the civil case itself) prosecutors don’t care because the decision of the court against the liar is how justice works. Imperfect, but not everything should have a criminal law solution….
Immanentize
@FlipYrWhig: Warren is not going to run for president. period.
germy
I thought this was interesting:
So Gillibrand is pulling Warren further to the left? That doesn’t seem to fit the narratives in some voters’ heads.
Miss Bianca
@Immanentize: Just wondering about the mechanics of it all. In this case, the plaintiffs got their asses handed to them in court – the judge ruled *from the bench* that they had made defamatory statements against my friend the defendant (which was the part I was a witness to), and that the jury’s only duty in the defamation charge was to determine the amount of damages, not that defamation had occurred. The jury came back recommending a fairly serious amount in damages, which only served to prove, to my mind, that they knew the plaintiffs were lying their asses off.
ETA: I should add, for the sake of clarification, that what happened was that these jokers took my friend to court, after having made some seriously ugly and misleading charges against her, both in the community and online. So my friend counter-sued for defamation.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
It always seemed to me that at some level Gore was running for president out of a sense of duty. He didn’t really seem to have that “fire in the belly” to want to be president. And so, he seemed to be more at ease and more eager to engage in other worthwhile pursuits in his post political life.
Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi)
@Baud: you win (not for the first time)
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: I agree. I also got the same vibe from Kerry. To me, it seemed like SoS was his dream job.
trollhattan
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Did not listen to nor watch any news yesterday. Made my Sunday better by a mile.
ruemara
@Louise B.: I wouldn’t say old so much as the wrong women for the wrong levels. Local power, you can get a bit of a pass. But as you move higher, you need to be more appealing to dicks. Both the upper & lower dicks.
I had an interesting real life example of this. I was watching “Nannette” the comedy special by Hannah Gadsby and my housemate got really upset at it. He felt she was preachy (white male syndrome) and he hated her discussion of abuse from men, especially her discussion of her own sexual abuse. It triggered him to the point that he left the house. When we discussed it, his anger was about his failed relationships with women who had suffered abuse and I found it interesting that the only way he could relate to it was to make it about his pain about past relationships, it required anger at her for bringing it up – to the point that the whole thing was about his feelings. Not the first time I’ve noticed that with him. He felt she made comedy about herself and it was selfish and not the place for discussing these topics. However, he’s a fan of Carlin and numerous other comedians who bring up difficult topics. Plus he was very happy and excited when the guy from Imagine Dragons talked about mental health care and depression at a frickin’ concert, so, always interesting that testosterone induced blindspot.
Immanentize
@Miss Bianca: I would take the defamation cash and never have anything to do with the creeps again…. Getting into other litigation just continues a relationship that really needs to end.
ETA Not strictly legal advice…
SFAW
@rikyrah:
About the only thing I’m relatively sure of is that the ferret adorning Little Lord Randy’s head is not traitorous, unlike the rest of him.
Fucking glibertarians. In a just world, all semi-rational persons would tell them to go fuck themselves eight ways from Sunday, for being IGMFY liars and assholes
tobie
@L85NJGT:
This reality check is sad but true. I would much prefer talking about a universal basic income, job retraining, and govt projects that can put people back to work while adding value to the economy than fantasizing about how tariffs will magically bring back manufacturing jobs.
rikyrah
@FlipYrWhig:
He has ALWAYS been a fraud. A complete and utter fraud.
Yarrow
@Brachiator: @Omnes Omnibus: Also agree. I felt the same way when he was running. It was more of a sense of duty than that he really wanted it.
rikyrah
@Immanentize:
thanks for the explanation.
Can’t wait to find out who the snitches are :)
SFAW
@rikyrah:
Feature not bug in the modern Rethuglican Partei.
trollhattan
@Yarrow: @Brachiator:
Don’t know how much Gore was affected by the media editing but I am unequivocal on Hillary being selectively edited to sound and look her worst. Her actual speaking style at the campaign stop I attended was quite effective including her pacing, cadence, tone, everything she appeared to lack in clips I saw and heard broadcast. (“Ah, there she goes into her screechy voice again, clip and run that.”)
Trump, they’d just let the cameras run for the sheer entertainment value (“Let’s see what the hell he does this time!”) and it continually worked in his favor.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Warren comes across as a schoolmarm, and I have to confess that I don’t quite see her appeal as a potential presidential candidate. Hillary Clinton was a cool customer, sometimes seemingly guarded in how she responded to questions, but I never particularly put her in any “teacherly” category and ascribed some of her approach to a deep understanding of how hard her enemies were gunning for her.
I understand your theory, but think it is too general to be useful, and mostly wrong. I had a running battle with crappy teachers, male and female, back in the day, and sometimes look at school systems as at best a necessary evil.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Warren’s strength is one-on-one settings. IDK how she’d do on the stump, especially over the course of a year.
With DiFi still around she doesn’t seem that old at 69, but I’d like to see us run somebody of, say, Obama’s age (current Obama or campaign Obama). We need the yoot actually voting.
HeleninEire
@LAO: OK so. Take those two immunities out of the equation. Let’s say I am brought before the grand jury not because the prosecutor thinks I did anything wrong but because I work for a bank. At that bank $1 million goes missing. I am only brought before the GJ because I wrote the software that is supposed to keep $1 million from going missing. They need background from me.
Michael Cohen is my lawyer. On the first question I answer “On advice of counsel I plead the fifth.” Cuz I’m guilty as hell.
Can the prosecutor do anything with that?
Manyakitty
@Cheryl Rofer: R and Z are so fetching in their vests!
Yarrow
@trollhattan: I like Warren as a Senator and would like her to stay there. We need good Senators.
MomSense
@Brachiator:
I don’t think we should draw many lessons from 2016. We had the media, FBI, and various progressive constituencies playing chicken with the election and Clinton for their own reasons. Then there was the ratfucking and Russian active measures – which really makes it tough to isolate why things turned out the way they did. Comey was probably the biggest factor – at least according to the analysis by the brains at 538. I’m at the point where I think Comey wrote that letter because he knew that the NY office was about to leak it in a more unflattering way. It’s just a hunch and we may never know the truth. I still think July was him positioning himself and the FBI to survive a Republican Congress our for blood in a Clibton administration.
It does ring true to me that everyone thought they could shit on the responsible woman because she was the safe parent in this American family drama. No matter what crap the kids pull, the responsible parent will be there to pick up the pieces, and provide love and care.
Cheryl Rofer
@Manyakitty: And Zooey really knows how to pose for a picture!
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: I think most Democrats who run for president want to be president because they think they would be good at being president. I don’t know why Republicans do it but from what I’ve seen I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s chiefly “by running I will extract free money from idiots, and if I win I will smite my enemies.”
I’m not sure when the BUT I NEED TO FEEL INSPIIIIIIIRED thing kicked in but I wish we tried harder collectively to point out that the ability to generate inspiration is rare and kinda beside the point. The “inspiring” presidents since the widespread adoption of television are basically JFK, Reagan, and Obama. Folks, you’re gonna have to have a president anyway, just treat it like an everyday transaction and just fucking pick a good one.
California Stars
@ruemara: Excellent comment. ALLLL the dicks.
rikyrah
@Cheryl Rofer:
the cats are soo cute
bemused
@Amir Khalid:
Ha, ha. So true. One of our two kitties crawls into my lap and grabs at my pen as I am doing crossword puzzles.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
I had not considered this before, but I think you are absolutely right about Kerry.
Manyakitty
@Immanentize: Hey you! Happy birthday!
bemused
@patrick II:
I think they are hardwired to be resentful. They’re grievance collectors.
Just One More Canuck
@Immanentize: I do consulting for lawyers in civil matters up here in the Great White North – every lawyer I’ve ever dealt with (well, every sane lawyer) says you are always better to stay away from court if you can, because you never know what a judge or a jury will do, or why. A two or three week trial where you may or may not get anything in the end simply isn’t worth while.
And happy birthday
Frankensteinbeck
@FlipYrWhig:
For a Libertarian to be truly free, no one else can be.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Immanentize: Late to the party as usual, happy b-day. Age same as birth year, I’m guessing 59. You’re about 6 months older than I.
Manyakitty
@Cheryl Rofer: Indeed. I love when they do that!
Yarrow
@Immanentize: Happy Birthday! And whoever quoted me in that previous thread was wrong. No ticking or tocking. Just cake and ice cream or a nice glass of your beverage of choice or whatever sounds good today. Enjoy your day!
rikyrah
HE.IS.NOT.A.DEMOCRAT.
HE.HAS.NO.PHUCKING.WING.OF.A.PARTY.HE’S.NOT.A.MEMBER.OF.
And…
THIRD.WAY AIN’T DEMOCRATS EITHER!!
Sanders’ wing of the party terrifies moderate Dems. Here’s how they plan to stop it.
Party members and fundraisers gathered for an invitation-only event to figure out how to counteract the rising progressive movement.
by Alex Seitz-Wald / Jul.22.2018 / 7:01 AM ET
HeleninEire
@rikyrah: This.
Quaker in a Basement
Louisiana Climate asks that you hold its beer.
Immanentize
@Frankensteinbeck: This is one of the greatest sentences ever written.
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
I don’t totally agree with this as media framing. However, I never saw Clinton in person, and you are right that this can make a tremendous difference.
Women political figures, especially in the US, often don’t get a fair break, and with Hillary Clinton, all these issues were magnified. I also noticed that a couple of radio stations out here in Southern California often had a female talk show host or newscaster slime Hillary about her voice, her wardrobe or other trivial BS when doing political stories, to give male hosts cover. Bottom line is that there are people, mainly, but not exclusively conservative, who only see white men as their ideal political leaders.
Trump was a showman who was used to PR-type bloviating, and loved the camera and attention. He also knew how to use it for maximum advantage. This shit got old, but it still works for his core supporters.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Ok, you’re not wrong, but Third Way is kind of a piddling group. The biggest names they seemed to have had at this event were Mitch Landrieu and a couple of minor House reps (including Tim Ryan, wasn’t he once talking about running for Speaker against Pelosi?)
Immanentize
@Manyakitty: @Just One More Canuck: @?BillinGlendaleCA: @Yarrow:
Thanks all! Yes, 59. Think I’m younger. Hope I don’t look that old.
Plan is sushi ? feast this evening with the Immp. I will wash it down with some good Japanese beer….
Immanentize
@Baud: Oh how I hate Tim “Dago Red Wine” Ryan. The best that white-guy Ohio has to offer?
MomSense
@Immanentize:
Happy birthday!! ?????
raven
Check out the hail storm from our back porch!
El Caganer
@rikyrah: JFC. There appear to be a couple of subsets of Democrats (or “Democrats”) who are determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I’m not anti-Bernie, but he shouldn’t be able to run as a Democrat if he decides to run in 2020. If you’re so goddam independent, run as an independent or a Green or whatever. Better that somebody who’s attacking the party do it from the outside.
Brachiator
@Immanentize: Birthday?
Have a happy!
Immanentize
@raven: Did the car get stripped?
LAO
@Immanentize: Happy Birthday!
Kelly
@Brachiator: The only presidential candidate I ever saw up close was Jimmy Carter. I happened by a rally of a few hundred people early in his campaign, had the time so I went in. I loved how kind and thoughtful he seemed. He was the guy you’ve seen building homes for the poor. I wanted to live in his neighborhood.
germy
Maggie H., Megan M, Douthat, Cilliza and others explained:
LAO
lololololololololol: 12 Audio Recorded Conversations seized from Cohen.
LAO
This is fucking startling:
germy
@LAO: But.. but… Maggie Haberman said there was only ONE tape! And she’s an access journalist!
(Meaning she repeats whatever they tell her)
trollhattan
@LAO:
Nixon’s enemies list was hidden away; Trump’s is spray-painted on an exterior White House wall with a coda to his fans “You know what to do.”
raven
@Immanentize: Unfortunately no!
raven
@LAO: They always said there had to be a “need to know”.
D58826
@LAO: Well that’s one way to shut down the debate. Calling Joe Stalin
rikyrah
@Frankensteinbeck:
KAPOW!
rikyrah
@LAO:
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
Corner Stone
@LAO: That whole presser was truly amazeballs. That part was hilarious in how faux outraged SHS tried to appear to be while defending the clearance removal.
LAO
@Gin & Tonic: And the immunized witnesses are:
I’m a little disappointed.
BretH
Q: Did the president discuss his private meeting with Putin with his National Security Advisor, etc etc?
A: He has met with his National Security Advisor, etc etc.
How the phuck do they let her get away with that?
Corner Stone
Ahh, Infrastructure Week. How I’ve missed you!
HeleninEire
@LAO: OK, hun I hate to put you to work, but who the fuck are those people?
MomSense
@LAO:
In your mark. Get set. Google!
MisterForkbeard
@LAO: “Anyone who questions The Trump will have their security clearance revoked”.
I can’t imagine what this would actually do to them, though. They’re not receiving classified info any longer, are they?
raven
@MisterForkbeard: And if they are why?
HeleninEire
@MisterForkbeard: LOL and Manafort ain’t contacting co-conspirators from prison and telling them what to say, either.
Dan B
@FlipYrWhig: I agree about the ‘teacher’ impression being tough to overcome. My rep. Pramila Jayapal is warm, it hot when she’s angry, and obviously very smart but I’ve never felt lectured by her. She’s not native born so not Pres material. There are male and female candidates that know how to engage and avoid the smart teacher trap.
debit
@MisterForkbeard: I hate to break the news to them that one doesn’t need a security clearance to see what a truly horrible president he is.
LAO
@MisterForkbeard: I just read an explainer that said because “reclassification” is so onerous, former intelligence officials maintain their status so they are available for consultation at the request of their successors. This obviously doesn’t apply to McCabe and Comey — both of whom already lost their security clearances.
rikyrah
@LAO:
I don’t know them…do you?
Would love to know who they are, in terms of the Manafort world.
Devine NOT being on this list…:) :)
LAO
@HeleninEire: I have no clue, looks like momsense is on the job!
Brachiator
Crazy ass news day. I ran across this Pew Research story:
And then this breaking story:
The Daily News has been a pretty good paper over the years, sometimes not so good. But still. With Trump pulling crazy shit every day, a shrinking media only adds to our problems.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@LAO: I don’t know who any of those people are. To the google!
ETA: James Brennan: James F. Brennan is an American politician. He is a former member of the New York State Assembly, representing the 44th Assembly District. He is a Democrat and also represents the Working Families Party.
JPL
@MisterForkbeard: Shows them who’s the boss. I assume that it will be used by Fox nonews to indicate they are bad, bad people.
It shows revenge to his perceived enemies.
MomSense
@LAO:
Cindy Laporta appears to be an executive at a Personal Accounting Firm. Kositzka Wicks & Company.
Yutsano
@LAO: Wait…as in former NSC James Brennan?
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire: @LAO: Five people who have never been in my kitchen.
Dorothy A. Winsor
There’s a Dennis Raico who’s a mortgage specialist in NYC.
The other people have many possibilities
MomSense
@MomSense:
Lots of Conor O’Briens. Have a feeling it may be the one from the firm Russell Brennan Keane. Another accounting, auditing firm.
Dan B
@Amir Khalid: In my opinion Obama was much less teacherly than Warren. Still it probably helped build the ‘black man lecturing us, doesnt he know how to respect good people?’
It would be interesting to see research on the communication styles of various pols. FDR, JFK, Reagan, and W would be good. There’s interesting research on how Rove turned W from a policy wonk to a fake drawling folksy guy.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Yutsano: Are you thinking of John Brennan maybe?
MomSense
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Yeah I saw that too. Looks most likely to me.
rikyrah
As far as the Manafort Immunity List:
sounds like they are part of Manafort’s fraud. Did you ever watch the segment on Maddow when she explained how Manafort and Gates just put out fraudulent documents to try and get millions in bank loans.
Corner Stone
@JPL:
There’s that and it’s a way to discredit anything they say moving forward. Just announce they recently had their clearance revoked, don’t say why, and then make their clear analyses into slimy attacks against Trump.
James E Powell
I’m trying to infer the meaning of a one week continuance. Is it a plea deal in progress?
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: If it turns out they are actually accountants and/or auditors then they know where *allll* the bodies are buried.
MomSense
There’s a James Brennan who was a former NY Assemblyman with the Working Families Party. Hmmm.
It is interesting that these people are relatively unknown.
satby
@raven: that’s wild!
MomSense
There’s a Norwood Mass realtor named Donna
Duggan. Seems like a stretch but this whole thing has been a reality stretch.
Dan B
@Barbara: Yep, sexism and school marm. One is a trap that can’t be avoided. Adding another makes for a tough go. Obama had professorial moments and amother ‘ism’ roared into blast mode. Straight white men start two steps ahead, except among black women. And a few other groups.
MomSense
I wish I had something more than an iPhone to work with.
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: If those people were all Manafort’s accountants, and they are being offered immunity, I’d suspect that Manafort’s attorneys will be having a heart-to-heart with Paulie.
After all, Al Capone, right?
MomSense
@MomSense:
Raico may be from a Chicago bank that loaned lkeny to Manafort. Federal Savings Bank. Looking at the mortgage lender to see if they mesh.
Aleta
-from Deadline
Tronc also owns the Chicago Tribune, the Hartford Courant, the Orlando Sentinel, Ft. Lauderdale’s Sun-Sentinel, and The Baltimore Sun and all of these local papers and publishing groups.
Tronc just sold (a month ago) the Los Angeles Times, San Diego Union-Tribune and other publications in the California News Group to an investment firm headed by Patrick Soon-Shiong.
Tronc’s majority shareholder (around 17%) is Michael W. Ferro, Jr. Until March 2018 he was also the Non-Executive Chairman of Tronc, but retired a day or so before Fortune published sexual harassment allegations from a number of people.
JPL
@James E Powell: I have a feeling that Manafort is hoping for a pardon. Expect a plea deal since my feelings are normally wrong.
HeleninEire
@Omnes Omnibus: What did you cook for them?
ETA misunderstood. What would you have cooked for them?
MomSense
Someone with a LinkedIn account could get more info.
Looks to me like Mueller has gone through tax filings, loan documents. $$$
Chyron HR
@LAO:
Oh, shit, poor Conor.
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire: it was an old Cheers reference.
different-church-lady
@germy: Trust me, we ain’t seen the bottom of clickbait ruining democracy.
Dan B
@Yarrow: Excellent news! I’d like us to use his : Time for women, and young people, and people of color to take over. Succinct and memorable. Ru Paul throws the after party!
MomSense
Any Jackals have LinkedIn?
Also found some weird social media sites that seem to be the kind people set up when they want google searches to go to those sites for several pages.
HeleninEire
@Omnes Omnibus: Wow Watched and loved Cheers on the first run. For real. Imma go look for it. And if it means I need to watch every single episode so be it!
Aleta
@Brachiator: The Daily News had such great front page headlines against T .
Timurid
This is like the aftermath of a mass shooting or some other high profile crime. The cops announce they have “John Smith” in custody, and social media is suddenly full of random John Smiths screaming “IT’S NOT ME” as the whole world shares every creepy post and image from their teenage edgelord phases. But this time with five names, not one.
Timurid
@Aleta:
Are those headlines and the paper getting nuked from orbit coincidental?
Brachiator
@Aleta:
Yep. The USA Today story about the Daily News includes one of thosd front pages. And it includes this great summary about what the decline of the Daily News means.
Tronc used to own my city’s paper, The Los Angeles Times, and ran it into the ground. It’s sad to see the Daily News taken down as well.
rikyrah
@Gin & Tonic:
UH HUH
UH HUH
YESS…
and, Devine isn’t on the list…but, he IS in the documents..LOL
HeleninEire
@Aleta: The NY Daily News? Yes that is my hometown paper. Grew up reading it. Today they announced that they are cutting their reporting staff by half
Aleta
Daily News Editor in chief Jim Rich (laid off today): “If you hate democracy and think local governments should operate unchecked and in the dark, then today is a good day for you.”
Tronc statement: “We are reducing today the size of the editorial team by approximately 50 percent and refocusing much of our talent on breaking news — especially in areas of crime, civil justice and public responsibility.”
(Quotes from NYT)
I keep wondering whether this refocus on ‘crime, civil justice and public responsibility’ is meant to support the conservative agenda. Or dog help us, if the editorial reduction will make it easier for targeted stories to be planted.
@Brachiator: we’re on the same page …
I was fond of the DN even when it wasn’t OK with me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@HeleninEire: Don’t know if Omnes is still around, but…. You can click or not depending on if you want to spoil a (does math on fingers, says to self…. “No shit? Christ, I’m old”) more than twenty-five year old episode of a sitcom
Dorothy A. Winsor
Did we know the Manafort trial has been delayed until July 31? If we did, I missed it
Mary G
@Immanentize: Happy Birthday! ????
Yarrow
Heh.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s the one.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
We still do a lot of mfg in this country. We don’t make the same things as we did decades ago, foundries and raw metals for example but we do mfg.
tobie
As all the Manafort and Daily News stuff is going on, I just wanted to say good on Barbara Lee, who has announced that she will run for Crowley’s old leadership role, but is not challenging Pelosi as some had urged her to do. She’s trying to unite the party as far as I can tell and I salute her for that.
Kay
I just got an email from someone who wants to volunteer for Galbraith (v Latta, US House)
he says he’s “not on Facebook or Twitter” so doesn’t know how to find anyone else.
“Good for you!”, I replied :)
El Caganer
@Ruckus: And we do it bigly! Very yooge and classy! So much winning….
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
The right side has been a cult for 3 or 4 decades now. You can tell very easily. The things they stand for are simple. You are either in or wrong. The things they stand for help the founders of the cult but not the members. That’s what makes it a cult.
Ruckus
@El Caganer:
Now I didn’t say that!
We used to make a lot of furniture in the US, but no longer do. And so on. Mfg is a decent sized segment, just different and not as big as it was.
We used to make everything, partially because few countries did and shipping was slow and very labor intensive. It also doesn’t take as many people to make a lot of the things we do make as it used to.
El Caganer
@Ruckus: Sorry, I should have added the smiley emoji. Not slagging on you!
HeleninEire
@HeleninEire: Deleted
Miss Bianca
@Immanentize: Happy Birthday, Imm!