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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Consistently wrong since 2002

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Saturday Morning Open Thread: The Beginning of the End of the Beginning?

Saturday Morning Open Thread: The Beginning of the End of the Beginning?

by Anne Laurie|  July 28, 20185:52 am| 333 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Dolt 45, Open Threads, Republicans in Disarray!, Russiagate, All Too Normal, Decline and Fall, Fucked-up-edness

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Russian soldiers guard the remnants of Trump’s Hollywood Walk of Fame Star, which was destroyed earlier this week. +1 for political street theater. (ht Michael Madill) pic.twitter.com/wexe64lx0Q

— TimKarr (@TimKarr) July 27, 2018

Happy anniversary to Donald Trump asking a foreign adversary to hack his opponent’s emails! https://t.co/V4dt2UUT39

— Adam Smith (@asmith83) July 27, 2018

The Helsinki Summit was 11 days ago

— Michael Cohen (@speechboy71) July 27, 2018

It’s been a long 97 days: pic.twitter.com/LPq1S1gAZt

— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) July 27, 2018

all this reality show needs now is paul manafort singing russian karaoke folk songs https://t.co/lcoQEgVJig

— darth™ (@darth) July 27, 2018

If you play the Trump-Cohen tapes backwards, you can clearly hear "I bury Paul Manafort."

— John Lurie (@lurie_john) July 25, 2018

The conventional wisdom in Washington is that nothing happens in August.

August is going to be insane.

— Kevin Madden (@KevinMaddenDC) July 27, 2018

Fox News by August: “Look, America teamed up with Russia to defeat the Nazis. This is just like that except the enemy was Hillary Clinton.”

— Schooley (@Rschooley) July 27, 2018

never met with russians

met with russians over adoption

met with russians for election dirt but thats ok

met w russians but did not collude

met w russians did some light collusion

met w russians, colluded but really everybody does it right?

— Oliver Willis (@owillis) July 27, 2018

Trump’s best angle at this point is just to say that the whole conservative movement was infiltrated and he couldn’t defy the NRA and Torshin.

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) July 27, 2018

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Reader Interactions

333Comments

  1. 1.

    satby

    July 28, 2018 at 5:59 am

    Good morning all! By the time you read this I’ll be off to the market, then immediately after to the airport. Just checked into my flight. I’m really jazzed about my trip to NYC and my reunions with my exchange son and my co-workers. Not to mention meeting NYC jackals and NotMax!
    Everyone have a great day ?

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 28, 2018 at 6:15 am

    Have a wonderful trip, Satby!

  3. 3.

    geg6

    July 28, 2018 at 6:34 am

    Bon voyage, satby! I’m jellus. I ♥️ New York, even in summer.

  4. 4.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 28, 2018 at 6:39 am

    Have a great trip, Satby!

    Can’t remember whether I posted that I’m back in the hotel (from the hospital) for another three weeks of recovery until I released to go home.

    Still have some uncontrolled pain, which I’ll talk to the clinic about when I’m taken in Monday for a check up. Unfortunately, the hospital pharmacist wouldn’t give me the strongest pain killer since it has potential interactions with another medication I’m taking, and I didn’t have the presence of mind to ask about substitutes before I left the hospital.

    But the nurse who did rounds today thought I was doing well. The after-care, well, it’s definitely not fun, as expected. Though I’m told it gets easier once the swelling comes down.

  5. 5.

    Cermet

    July 28, 2018 at 6:50 am

    @satby: Have a good trip and fun with the jackals.
    @Sister Golden Bear: Sorry to hear all that and hope the pain recedes and you get better fast.

    A good morning to all the Jackals out there.

  6. 6.

    delk

    July 28, 2018 at 6:50 am

    Good Morning!

  7. 7.

    LeeM

    July 28, 2018 at 6:51 am

    Looks like a busy birthday for Dr Mrs LeeM today. An F1 tornado spun out of the severe thunderstorms yesterday and devastated the wildlife education center habitat at her work. All the critters are safe and accounted for in their backup holding areas, but the big water oaks fell across the fencing surrounding the wolf, bobcat, cougar and bison habitats. The damage from Hurricanes Matthew and Irene were nearly repaired, and now this again.

  8. 8.

    Nicole

    July 28, 2018 at 6:53 am

    Ha! So funny to see that photo at the top of this post. I think a lawyer friend of mine from Los Angeles gets the nod for it going viral- he’d posted it on Instagram and FB, giving the h/t to Michael Madill, who he got it from, but the photographer is unknown. I asked to share it on my page, he said sure, he’d make the post public and 24 hours later, his public post now has over 22K shares. I got a FB message from him this morning saying he guesses my instinct to make it public was the right call. Heh. I’m going to message him back once it’s not 4AM on the West Coast to tell him to check out Balloon Juice to see it.

  9. 9.

    Waldo

    July 28, 2018 at 6:59 am

    I used to think that with each lie Trump told, he was digging a hole he’d never be able to climb out of. Now I see his plan is to reach a depth at which realty itself implodes.

  10. 10.

    Nicole

    July 28, 2018 at 7:01 am

    @geg6: If it’s any consolation about not being in NYC yourself, it’s particularly gross here right now, even by NYC in summer standards. The heat isn’t terrible, but a week of on-and-off rain has left it really, really humid. You can’t escape it. I got on a C train and the car was air conditioned cold… and still humid. Same thing at the movie theater. Ugh. Which, as I was there to see Skyscraper, aka Towering Inferno Starring The Rock, just added insult to injury.

  11. 11.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 7:04 am

    @satby:
    Have a great trip??

  12. 12.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 7:04 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 7:05 am

    @Sister Golden Bear:
    Sorry about the pain. Hope that they can help you get better.

  14. 14.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:07 am

    @satby:

    Have a great trip!

  15. 15.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 7:11 am

    Must see TV:

    This March, five years after being acquitted of the murder of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman was back in the news for threatening another African-American man – Shawn “Jay-Z” Carter. “[I said] I would beat him as if I was Solange,” Zimmerman told a local newspaper, referencing Jay-Z’s much-publicised fracas with his sister-in-law, Solange Knowles, in 2014. “And he would find himself coming out of the south side of a gator if he comes to Florida and bothers my family.”

    The reason behind the former neighbourhood watch volunteer’s belligerence towards the king of hip-hop was Rest in Power: The Trayvon Martin Story, a new six-part documentary, which Jay-Z executive-produced. The series, made in cooperation with Martin’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, examines in forensic, harrowing and often exasperating detail the shooting on 26 February 2012 of the unarmed 17-year-old, which Zimmerman says was in self-defence, while the boy was walking through a gated community in Sanford, Florida. It also explores its momentous repercussions, both personal and national.

    And in a tail-swallowing media moment, those repercussions include the documentary-makers’ own run-ins with Zimmerman, who emerges as the opposite of a reformed character. In the intervening years, Zimmerman has been arrested for domestic violence, alleged to have used racist language and seen bragging about killing Martin. He even attempted to auction the gun on eBay.

    Dennis Warren, the private investigator hired by the flim-makers to contact Zimmerman and his relatives, is currently suing him for stalking. Zimmerman allegedly bombarded Warren with threatening phone calls, texts, voice messages and emails. In a sickening reference to his killing of Martin, Zimmerman boasted to another interviewer: “I know how to handle people who fuck with me. I have since February 2012.”

    As it happens, Jay-Z also knows how to handle people who fuck with him. Guesting on DJ Khaled’s recent track Top Off, he spat, “Meanwhile Georgie Porgie sinnin’ and sendin’ me threats/ Save your breath, you couldn’t beat a flight of steps/ Try that shit with a grown man/ I’ll kill that fuckboy with my own hand.”

    But Jay-Z’s real response is the docuseries itself. It is both an angry indictment and a gripping real-life legal thriller, but at the same time a necessary examination of a tragedy that exposed the United States’s flaws and faultlines, societal and institutional – in the same way that the murder of Stephen Lawrence did in the UK, two decades earlier.

    ……………….

    Martin’s killing was the moment the whole country realised the system wasn’t working. In particular, the case brought attention to the controversial “stand your ground” law, backed by the National Rifle Association (NRA), justifying the use of deadly force in self-defence – which has heavily favoured white shooters of black people. In the broader sense, Martin’s case presaged America’s current racial and political divisions. For a brief, wishful moment after the election of Barack Obama, the country imagined itself a post-racial society, but as the final episode of Rest in Power lays out, it was really just a few short steps away from riots in Ferguson, Missouri, the NFL kneeling protests, and the far-right marching through Charlottesville chanting white nationalist slogans with the tacit endorsement of Donald Trump.

  16. 16.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:11 am

    One of the tweets in Cole’s feed (or whatever it’s called) talked about having a tough time remembering which one is Uday, and which one is Qusay.

    I used to have the same problem, until I learned this one weird trick came up with this simple reminder:

    Uday is the stupid and evil one, and Qusay is the evil and stupid one. Problem solved!

  17. 17.

    Nicole

    July 28, 2018 at 7:13 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: I’m also sorry about the pain and am really sorry you’ll have to wait until Monday to talk to someone about it.

  18. 18.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:13 am

    @LeeM:

    Looks like a busy birthday for Dr Mrs LeeM today. An F1 tornado spun out of the severe thunderstorms yesterday and devastated the wildlife education center habitat at her work.

    The Lord works in mysterious ways has a really fucked-up sense of “humor.”

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:15 am

    Since Ozark seems to be off his game this morning, I’ll say it for him:

    Bleach.

  20. 20.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:17 am

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Sorry to hear about the pain, I hope you get some relief soon.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:19 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Martin’s killing was the moment the whole country realised the system wasn’t working.

    Delusion is a powerful drug.

  22. 22.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 7:30 am

    @SFAW: The word is “Blech” and I am seeing my granddaughter in her annual horse show today so it is decidedly not a “blech” day.

  23. 23.

    Raven

    July 28, 2018 at 7:35 am

    There’s danger on the edge of town
    Ride the King’s Highway, baby
    Weird scenes inside the gold mine
    Ride the highway west, baby
    Ride the snake, ride the snake
    To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
    The snake, he’s long, seven miles
    Ride the snake
    He’s old and his skin is cold

  24. 24.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 28, 2018 at 7:43 am

    @Raven:

    You still in Houston?

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 7:43 am

    @SFAW: And denial is not a river in Egypt.

  26. 26.

    Chyron HR

    July 28, 2018 at 7:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Zimmerman boasted to another interviewer: “I know how to handle people who fuck with me. I have since February 2012.”

    Awfully braggadocious for someone who claims he barely escaped with his life. (chin scratching emoji)

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The word is “Blech” and I am seeing my granddaughter in her annual horse show today so it is decidedly not a “blech” day.

    I know what YOU write on a daily basis. We talked about it yesterday, gramps.

    I was also going to make some smartass comment along the lines of you-snooze-you-lose, but since it’s apparently NOT a “blech” day, I guess I’ll punt on that.

    Best wishes to your granddaughter! Have a good time at the show, gramps.

  28. 28.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 28, 2018 at 7:58 am

    @Nicole: Actually a nurse will be here tomorrow morning to do rounds, and I’ll raise it with her then.

    The clinic does have staff members who you can 24/7 if needed, but since it’s a four-day holiday weekend here in Thailand, I hate to make a big deal out of it, if there’s intermediate steps we can take.

    The big question is whether I’ll be able to sleep through the night with the sleeping pills they gave me. (Last night I was waking up almost every hour.) It was a little difficult to figure out because it feels like I need to pee really badly, but in reality it pain from the swelling of the surgical site. If I have another sleepless night, then yeah, I’ll escalate things, politely of course, because Thailand is adverse to public demonstrations of irritation and anger (shows that you can’t control your emotions).

  29. 29.

    Raven

    July 28, 2018 at 7:58 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: nah, I’m at the Farmers market on my way to the hardware store!

  30. 30.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 7:59 am

    @satby:

    Have a great time in that great city!

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 8:00 am

    @Chyron HR: He’s a pu$$y with a gun and a big mouth. I’m a little surprised he’s still alive.

  32. 32.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 8:00 am

    This was a great way to start off my Twitter-reading day!

    .@RudyGiuliani I saw your interview last night with @ChrisCuomo. Thank you! You are the best lawyer we have working for us on our team (and for free). Keep up the great work. Please don’t stop making public statements.— Michael Avenatti (@MichaelAvenatti) July 27, 2018

  33. 33.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 8:04 am

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Glad you’ve got a good pharmacist who caught that almost-blunder.

  34. 34.

    NobodySpecial

    July 28, 2018 at 8:08 am

    Good morning!

    Bit bummed since my vacation plans to GenCon fell through. Hope everyone else is getting in some quality vacation time this week!

  35. 35.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 8:08 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I hope somewhere in that documentary someone points out that Trayvon was defending himself against a man he had noticed was stalking him. I never hear anyone talking about. Either everyone gets Stand Your Ground protection, or no one should.

  36. 36.

    HeleninEire

    July 28, 2018 at 8:14 am

    @geg6: LOL. When I left NYC I said out loud to no one in the room “Goodbye NY summer; I will not miss you.”

    And I left in November!

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    July 28, 2018 at 8:14 am

    In case it was missed by any planning to attend, reservations at the meeting spot are listed under NotMax. So if it’s crowded, those who may amble in later on can be readily led to the jackal area by the tavern staff.

  38. 38.

    HeleninEire

    July 28, 2018 at 8:15 am

    @satby: Enjoy NYC. It’s the best.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 8:18 am

    @SFAW: I will. My son got married recently (Baby Girl is his daughter from a previous relationship)(and she really likes his new wife) so now they are a “family”, hence we don’t get to see her near as much as we used to.

  40. 40.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:20 am

    @satby:
    Have a great trip. I so wish I could join you in the Big Apple! Please have someone take pictures of all the attending miscreants?

  41. 41.

    m.j.

    July 28, 2018 at 8:25 am

    I’m getting paranoid. I keep trying to watch the Samantha Bee – Masha Gesson coffee and car ride thing and all it wants to do is keep buffering. Everything else seems to load fine.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 8:25 am

    @debbie: Back when people were still arguing about it, that was the first point I would always make. Apparently, only white people get to stand their ground, black people engage in unprovoked attacks on peaceful law abiding citizens. Shocking, I know.

  43. 43.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:26 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: I’m glad to hear that you moved to the recovery hotel. But sorry about the pain. I am not a doctor! but when my wife was in her worst stages of pain, the palliative care Doc had her taking tynenol along with the narcotics. It really seemed to help for whatever medical reasons… Is that an option?

    One of my favorite silver lining stories: when Julie was in the hospital for the final experience, a young new resident came in on rounds in the morning and said, “Wow! You know, if you were opiate naive, that dose you get would kill you.” Julie just leveled him with a look and said, “I am not opiate naive.”

  44. 44.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:31 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sadly, we now have plenty of proof that your theory is true. I remember one egregious case in FLA., where an AA woman’s house (!) was being broken into and she shot the burglar and was immediately charged with murder — no stand your ground for her! I guess all ground belongs to the white folks.

  45. 45.

    Kristine

    July 28, 2018 at 8:33 am

    @satby: Have a great time!

    One of my favorite sites is the subway station for the Natural History Museum. Mosaics of bats, monkeys, birds etc on the walls.

    Also, the Cloisters, if you can manage it and especially if you like things medieval.

    Also, too, il Laboratorio del Gelato gelato is amazing.

  46. 46.

    John S.

    July 28, 2018 at 8:33 am

    The rubes (i.e. Trump supporters and the media) are already fixating on the GDP numbers, so none of this matters again.

    That will likely change once GDP comes back t earth following the run on soybeans in anticipation of tariffs, but facts and pesky details are not important to the rubes.

  47. 47.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 28, 2018 at 8:36 am

    @Immanentize:
    Do you know what the DA’s reasoning was for charging her with murder instead of letting her off under the STG law? Whatever happened with the woman’s case

  48. 48.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 8:42 am

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    I’m so sorry about the pain. I can’t take opioids so I’ve had episodes after surgery or dental work with pain. This may seem weird but listening to music in a comfortable position can help. Pick music that you love. I prefer with earbuds to block out other sounds.
    There is some research on this but nothing conclusive yet. It doesn’t stop the pain but it does help me.

    I hope you get some relief.

  49. 49.

    Gaffa

    July 28, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @SFAW:

    Uday is the stupid and evil one, and Qusay is the evil and stupid one. Problem solved!

    Mork is cunnin’ but brutal, while Gork is brutal but cunnin’!

    Although I don’t think any of the Greenskins would put up with the Trump clan. They’d give them to the Snotlings to play with.

  50. 50.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: I’m not sure I remember, but I’ll try to find it later…. I want that one in my pocket.

  51. 51.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 8:45 am

    @satby:

    Have fun!

  52. 52.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    July 28, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @SFAW: people say Uday is the stupid one, but if so, he’s stupid like a fox… he’s furthest away from all the criminal activity, and hence best positioned to assume control of what’s left of the family fortune while everyone else is doing time. I guess there’s a strong possibility that nothing will be left but at least he’ll have his freedom.

  53. 53.

    Ohio Mom

    July 28, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: I remember learning during my surgical adventure five years ago that poorly controlled pain interferes with healing. I hope you get enough of the right stuff soon.

  54. 54.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @Immanentize:

    Was that the same woman who shot in the air, not even at the person?

  55. 55.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 28, 2018 at 8:47 am

    @Immanentize:

    Please have someone take pictures of all the attending miscreants?

    I think it’s “pics or it didn’t happen”, that’s what the kids say.

  56. 56.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @satby: See you Sunday! Didn’t realize NotMax was just visiting, as well!

  57. 57.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
    Here is one case, but this is slightly different from the one I’m remembering -+ but horrific also:. Linky

  58. 58.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:50 am

    @MomSense: That’s the link above — the shooting in the air one. But there was another…. Sadly probably dozens.

    PS. Bee stung boy OK?

  59. 59.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @Immanentize: That’s a great story—Julie was clearly bad.ass. Love it!

    When are your college visits? We made it through our crazed 2500 mile campuspalooza…hmm, that phrase makes it sound more fun than 7 informational sessions and miles and miles of walking! It was helpful for my son, though. He has adjusted some of his preferences just based on that feeling you get. And I realized that what he needs in a school isn’t remotely what I myself respond to. ?

  60. 60.

    JPL

    July 28, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @Immanentize: For those who don’t want to link to fynyt the case is also on wikipedia.
    link
    It wasn’t stand your ground, because it was only a warning shot.

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 8:52 am

    Are those really Russian soldiers???

  62. 62.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2018 at 8:53 am

    @HeleninEire: On a ski lift in NZ one time, I sat next to a retired schoolteacher from Philadelphia. She doesn’t like summers, so she’s in the Philly area from October through March-April or so, then goes to NZ until the beginning of October. It’s more or less winter all year for her.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @MomSense: I do believe that woman was arguing with her husband who was threatening to get violent with her. Again.

  64. 64.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2018 at 8:54 am

    @zhena gogolia: No. Street theater. Thrift shop uniforms.

  65. 65.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 8:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Your son and his wife reeeeeaaally need a date weekend dontcha think. ??. They could always drop baby girl off with you.

    My adult kids are not close to grandkid time and are saying they are not going to ever have children. Here I am a freakin baby whisperer who knits.

    It’s gotten so bad that random babies are smiling at me and doing the reach out for me to pick them up at the grocery store. They know who would be the cool grandma.

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2018 at 8:58 am

    @MomSense: There have been clinical studies that ibuprofen and acetaminophen (paracetamol for furriners) taken in alternation (i.e. different each two hours) are as effective as oral opioids. Of course fentanyl, morphine, demerol, etc, are a different beast.

  67. 67.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 8:59 am

    @Mandarama:
    Up and coming campus visits! Rice 8/9, UT Austin 8/10, take in a good music show at Gruene Hall 8/11…
    Then off to So. Cal. for UCSD, Harvey Mudd, UCLA and USC the following week. I’m already exhausted! Of course, the Immp has done almost nothing on his application essays yet… Wrangling and stress ahead!

  68. 68.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 9:00 am

    @Immanentize:

    He’s doing well. No more meds. How is Immp feeling? I’m really glad he likes his job.

  69. 69.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 9:04 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’ve done that before. After any kind of surgery though I can’t take ibuprofen or naproxen. Just Tylenol.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 9:05 am

    @MomSense:
    Almost recovered from the wipe out, but his left paw is still pretty messed up. Hasn’t gotten back on the bike yet. We got new pedals and some bike gloves. Which I think he now understands why they are a good thing.

  71. 71.

    JPL

    July 28, 2018 at 9:06 am

    @Immanentize: Exciting times for little Immp though. I’m exhausted just reading about your pending travels.

  72. 72.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 9:06 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:
    After a lot of protesting, she was finally let out of jail.

  73. 73.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 28, 2018 at 9:06 am

    @Immanentize: Then you should take some time to meet the rare breed of Southern California jackal while you’re in the area. U$C, blech.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @Immanentize:
    Are you sure that it was a burglar?
    I am thinking about the case where the boyfriend was abusive, admitted that he was abusive, and still she was prosecuted for trying to defend herself and her child. That’s the case that I am thinking about.

  75. 75.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 9:09 am

    @John S.: There are, unsurprisingly, early signs that the housing market is cooling off, also too. CalculatedRisk:

    FRIDAY, JULY 27, 2018

    Housing comments from Soylent Green

    by Bill McBride on 7/27/2018 04:23:00 PM

    Long term readers will remember mortgage broker “Soylent Green is People”. He sent me these comments on housing that I’ll pass along:

    “A bit of a panic is breaking out amongst my Realtor friends. Sales are down. There are more cancellations right before closings than usual. Builders are getting a few drop outs as well on some of their units, but that could be tied to overseas buyers with other concerns. If this sales “air pocket” continues, we might see some Agents have to actually marketing, rather than just shilling their homes at the first buyer through the door. A few Agents have seen their listings grow long in the tooth, even some traditionally priced towards first time home buyers. That’s a deja vu event today for 2013 vintage agents, but not so for old dogs like me.

    On the mortgage side of things, more and more loans have begun funding in the upper 4’s to low 5’s. Customers are really chafing at anything priced above 4.75%. In order to expand volume, some lenders are duking it out on price while others are expanding their debt to income ratios, lowering the buying threshold, just as we saw back in 2006.”

    CR Note: Higher mortgage rates and the new tax policy appear to be impacting home sales in some areas. But this is a slowdown from a hot market, and I expect the key sectors – single family starts and new home sales – will see further growth.

    (McBride was warning about the housing bubble long before the crash.)

    The US economy is a huge, complicated, behemoth of a thing, but one can’t beat up on it forever without facing consequences. The fall and winter are likely to be interesting (in the Chinese proverb sense), especially with the threat of another federal government shutdown looming…

    Be careful out there.

    Fingers crossed for a pain-free, quiet weekend for everyone.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 9:09 am

    Ok I’m off to Masshole land. Going to spend an overnight with an elderly relative who needs a little company and someone to see if anything unsafe is happening at the house.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 9:10 am

    @Immanentize:
    Sounds like a great trip for you and Little Imma ?

  78. 78.

    JPL

    July 28, 2018 at 9:11 am

    @Immanentize: If you have time while you are in Austin, you should see this

    From March to October (typically), 1.5 million bats emerge nightly from narrow but deep crevices in the underside of the Ann W. Richards Congress Avenue Bridge. They usually start to emerge from the bridge around 20 minutes before sundown.

    It’s only thirty minutes from the campus by foot.

  79. 79.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 9:12 am

    @MomSense:
    Have a good trip

  80. 80.

    MomSense

    July 28, 2018 at 9:14 am

    @Immanentize:

    Road rash?

    This sounds terrible but I’m the tiniest bit ok with my kids getting non lethally humbled by activities. A little extra caution is a good thing especially on/in anything with wheels.

    I hope he feels better.

  81. 81.

    Yarrow

    July 28, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: No. None of his kids with Ivana are innocent. They’re all involved in the treason.

    @satby: Have a great trip!

  82. 82.

    rikyrah

    July 28, 2018 at 9:15 am

    Why Lucretia really shut down her clothing line??

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Why-Ivanka-Trump-really-shut-down-her-line-of-13110960.php

  83. 83.

    Gelfling 545

    July 28, 2018 at 9:17 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: Bless you. I hope your healing is rapid. As to aftercare, I was wobbly about dressing a few tiny incisions from gallbladder surgery. If I ever need anything more serious heaven help me and any who have to participate in the care! You are such a strong person. Wishing you well.

  84. 84.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 9:18 am

    @MomSense:

    Your son and his wife reeeeeaaally need a date weekend dontcha think.

    He shares custody with Baby Girls mother, so he and his wife get date wkend every other. Every now and again there is a conflict between their busy lives and their wkend with BG and then we get her for the wkend, but it does not happen as much as it did before they got married.

  85. 85.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 9:19 am

    @JPL: Oh, I love the Austin bats!! Thanks for reminding me!

  86. 86.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 9:20 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    So are they protestors or supporters? I’m guessing the former.

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 9:22 am

    @rikyrah: Glad that story mentioned – https://grabyourwallet.org/ It’s a good list, well worth thinking about when buying stuff.

    (Too many) Companies these days only understand money. The only way to get their attention is to stop giving it to them.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  88. 88.

    Ohio Mom

    July 28, 2018 at 9:22 am

    @Another Scott: It’s anecdotal but I am seeing signs of a slowing housing market in my neighborhood (like all good suburbanites, following the area’s housing prices is a minor pastime).

    I so do not want to live through another Great Recession.

  89. 89.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 9:22 am

    @MomSense:
    Yes, abrasions galour! Palms of both hands, elbow, shoulder, up his back some…. And I agree completely. No broken bones equals a good experience.

  90. 90.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @Immanentize: Austin is fantastic! My brother lives there. It’s hotter than hell, though, as I’m sure you know. ?

    Harvey Mudd is in my kid’s top 3. Let’s just plan to dump them at the same school together and commiserate!

    Mine hasn’t done anything on applications yet either. (He spent most of the summer working in a lab.) And honestly, the schools he loves have such low admit rates that it’s like a snowball’s chance in…well, Texas.

  91. 91.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 9:29 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: I’m amazed at your bravery, being far away from home and tackling this. Wishing you the fastest recovery!

  92. 92.

    Yarrow

    July 28, 2018 at 9:30 am

    @Immanentize: Since you’re visiting Rice, you can also check out the bats in Houston. Not as dramatic as the Austin bats, and their numbers were diminished by hurricane Harvey, but still cool. They’re under the Waugh bridge over Buffalo Bayou. There’s a viewing platform with info boards and such. Link.

  93. 93.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 9:34 am

    @Ohio Mom: Around here, in NoVA, it’s not as bad as the 2006 slow-down, yet, but there are signs of slowing. A few months ago, just about everything (with some exceptions) seemed to be selling in a week or less. Now, I’m noticing more and more homes that have had signs in front for many weeks. And plots of in-fill land are dropping in price (e.g. 2.2 acres in a flood plain was $650k, now $500k, and still no obvious nibbles.)

    Lumber prices are way up too according to CR (probably at least partly the result to Donnie’s Glorious Trade War with our Notorious Enemy Canada). (groucho-roll-eyes.gif).

    We’re not yet to the 2006 insanity, and I don’t really expect us to get there unless things change (e.g. some insane tax law changes to pump up the mortgage market), but any slowdown in new housing should be watched carefully. It leads recoveries and is an important sign of coming recessions.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  94. 94.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 9:36 am

    Hey, remember the “we were only meeting at Trump Tower to talk about Russian adoptions” schtick? Turns out that an organization my boss is involved with was part of the fig-leaf for that story.

    She gets a call from an AP reporter early last Sunday morning, wanting to know about her connection to the two jokers he cites in this article. Turns out that they had met with her at FRUA (Families for Russian and Ukrainian Adoptions), feeding her a line of bull about all the terrible lies Bill Browder had told, and that if FRUA would only start lobbying against the Magnitsky Act, maybe Russian adoptions to the US could start up again. Now, Jan is no fool, and she knows what professional ethics are into the bargain, so she told them flat-out that FRUA wasn’t going to get involved. So they mooched away, but lo and behold, *the very next day* they show up at Trump Tower!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/emails-lawyer-who-met-trump-jr-tied-to-russian-officials/2018/07/26/2f06a404-9138-11e8-ae59-01880eac5f1d_story.html?utm_term=.4afe48afd868

  95. 95.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @Another Scott:

    An even more ominous note, at least in my mind: At some lenders (as in Fannie and Freddie, but also others), approval for modification doesn’t rely on income. In fact, income isn’t a factor at all.

  96. 96.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    July 28, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Looks great. Don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach watching it as I can barely stand to look at that racist piece of shit. Great to see Jay-Z following in the political footsteps of his better half ;)

  97. 97.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 9:38 am

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    I hope my comment about the pharmacist didn’t come off as dismissive of your pain. I’m not at all dismissive of anyone’s pain, but I know many who have gotten into more trouble based on healthcare providers not paying careful attention to the risks of drug interactions, etc.

  98. 98.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    what’s left of the family fortune while everyone else is doing time.

    Yeah, well, I don’t think owing the Russians hundreds of millions of $$$ is something he’d look forward to.

  99. 99.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @Ohio Mom: How’s about another Great Depression?

  100. 100.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 9:46 am

    @debbie:

    Gotta get moving on the pile of errands I need to do, but for more information about new mod rules, you can Google Fannie (or Freddie) Flex Modification.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 9:54 am

    @debbie: Or drug allergies. I can’t count the number of times I have been prescribed anti-inflammatories and then have to remind the Doc that I am allergic to aspirin (cross reactions due to I suspect using the same receptors) and they go, “Oh yeah.” and put away their prescription pad.

  102. 102.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Tad Devine walked into Robert Mueller's office like pic.twitter.com/rncUefElbg
    — Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) July 27, 2018

    Owl Jolson

  103. 103.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 9:55 am

    Tad Devine walked into Robert Mueller's office like pic.twitter.com/rncUefElbg
    — Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) July 27, 2018

    Owl Jolson

  104. 104.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 9:57 am

    Okay, this is a first for me.

    I leave one comment and it appears twice?

  105. 105.

    gene108

    July 28, 2018 at 10:02 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    One thing that is also never brought up is a 27 year old man should be stronger than a skinny 17 year old boy. Zimmerman should have been able to more than hold his own against Martin.

  106. 106.

    The Pale Scot

    July 28, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @Waldo:

    Now I see his plan is to reach a depth at which realty itself implodes.

    I believe the term is “Crossing the Event Horizon”

  107. 107.

    Tokyokie

    July 28, 2018 at 10:06 am

    @JPL: There used to be bats in the ewe tee football stadium as well, but the stench of baked guano during early-season afternoon games was such that the bats were driven out/exterminated.

  108. 108.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 10:07 am

    @germy: Nicole Wallace has often said that when trump hired Manafort, everybody in politics knew he was a bottom-feeding has-been with a dirty client list. What I recall hearing was that he was more or less a has-been, but one who knew convention rules like nobody else, a sign that trump was gearing up for a brokered convention. I don’t remember any talk about a dirty client list, as opposed to say, Lanny Davis, whose shady clients are mentioned all the time. Rarely so for his partner, Michael Steele (I don’t know if they’re still partners, I know those types of deals often have short lifespans).

  109. 109.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2018 at 10:08 am

    @germy:

    I leave one comment and it appears twice?

    Your comment must have been SO GOOD, it just couldn’t be contained.

  110. 110.

    The Pale Scot

    July 28, 2018 at 10:11 am

    @Raven: Stay away from the brown acid

  111. 111.

    tybee

    July 28, 2018 at 10:11 am

    @LeeM: oatland island?

  112. 112.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 10:12 am

    @Tokyokie: now it’s just the glorious grackles pooping everywhere.

  113. 113.

    The Pale Scot

    July 28, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: Don’t be shy about asking for pain meds, no sleep = slower recovery

  114. 114.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 10:20 am

    @gene108: He outweighed Trayvon by 70 lbs. (220 vs 150) On his side, Trayvon had some martial arts training.

  115. 115.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2018 at 10:25 am

    @germy:
    Once, I posted a comment and it appeared five times. For some now-forgotten (but good) reason I had mentioned breasts. FYWP made me seem obsessed with boobs, and I have never forgiven it.

  116. 116.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 10:26 am

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: Yeah, I would have trouble watching it too. Feel the need to tho.

  117. 117.

    B.B.A.

    July 28, 2018 at 10:26 am

    Is it bright where you are? Have the people changed? Does it make you happy you’re so strange?

  118. 118.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 10:33 am

    @MomSense: That’s so good of you. Be sure to carve out moments for yourself.

  119. 119.

    ruemara

    July 28, 2018 at 10:34 am

    @Sister Golden Bear: Get better soon! I seem to have missed stufff.

    Have a good time in NYC, satby. In fact, try to have less of a good time since NY goes overboard.

  120. 120.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 10:40 am

    @germy: Sure wish I could see that tweet, but I’m blocked by Ragnarok Lobster! I’ve been assured it’s nothing personal, by people more familiar with twitter than I, but it still stings!

  121. 121.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @B.B.A.:

    Is it bright where you are?

    The sun is shining.

    Have the people changed?

    Yes, but their still assholes.

    Does it make you happy you’re so strange?

    Very happy. Thank you for asking. Mind you, I have a long ways to go before I measure up to your strangeness.

  122. 122.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 10:49 am

    @RedDirtGirl: I think you can read any twitter account without signing in. At least, I always have been able to. As I understand it, blocking only keeps you from engaging with the blocker.

  123. 123.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 10:49 am

    @RedDirtGirl: It’s a brief clip of “Owl Jolson” doing his “I wanna singa, ’bout the moon-ah and a june-ah and a spring-ah” song as he dances into a gruff agent’s office.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 10:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: yup, I follow twitter through safari, you can just google (name) twitter and a page will probably come up

  125. 125.

    Ken

    July 28, 2018 at 10:52 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    Hey, remember the “we were only meeting at Trump Tower to talk about Russian adoptions” schtick?

    Vaguely, but it was so long ago now that we’re all on Trump time.

  126. 126.

    jeffreyw

    July 28, 2018 at 10:55 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    @germy:
    Once, I posted a comment and it appeared five times. For some now-forgotten (but good) reason I had mentioned breasts. FYWP made me seem obsessed with boobs, and I have never forgiven it.

    Here’s a puppeh picture to help get your mind out of the gutter, Amir.

  127. 127.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 10:58 am

    @jeffreyw: And yet there is at least one boob in that photo, too. Interesting…

  128. 128.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks for the tip!

  129. 129.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 11:06 am

    @Amir Khalid: @jeffreyw: @RedDirtGirl: Had a conversation with a female friend who found men’s obsession with breasts puzzling and just didn’t understand it. I mansplained it for her by pointing out the fact that “We don’t have them.” All the men in the group nodded in agreement, the women weren’t so sure.

  130. 130.

    jeffreyw

    July 28, 2018 at 11:08 am

    @RedDirtGirl:

    @jeffreyw: And yet there is at least one boob in that photo, too. Interesting…

    This one may doubly pique your interest!

  131. 131.

    geg6

    July 28, 2018 at 11:10 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yeah, I don’t buy that either.

  132. 132.

    Humdog

    July 28, 2018 at 11:10 am

    @Amir Khalid: Sure, Amir, blame WP………

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 28, 2018 at 11:11 am

    @jeffreyw: This blog is really going to the dogs.

  134. 134.

    trollhattan

    July 28, 2018 at 11:17 am

    @Immanentize:
    One year behind ya. So not ready….

    Way back in the day my bro was accepted to Harvey Mudd but chose MIT instead, depriving the family a lifetime of the most awesome college sweatshirts evah.

    Enjoy your excursion! I’ll be taking the kid to Haaavaaad at Cal women’s soccer next month. “There, you visited both.”

  135. 135.

    JMG

    July 28, 2018 at 11:17 am

    @Immanentize: That’s a fine list. If you son is accepted by any of those schools, he will like it.

  136. 136.

    trollhattan

    July 28, 2018 at 11:18 am

    @Humdog:
    It’s the sole reason Amir is inundated with boobs!

    Has anybody told him “chicks dig Telecasters?”

  137. 137.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 11:19 am

    @Immanentize: HMC grad here. You’ll find it radically different than the others on your list because it’s so small. Mitigated by Scripps across the street, though.

  138. 138.

    trollhattan

    July 28, 2018 at 11:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    It’s the classic mistake of looking for something deep in the puddle that is the manbrain. Always look to the simple explanation first.

  139. 139.

    Baud

    July 28, 2018 at 11:25 am

    Y’all talking about boobs and you didn’t invite me?

  140. 140.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2018 at 11:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I mansplained it for her by pointing out the fact that “We don’t have them.”

    Are you really sure about that?

  141. 141.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 11:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I really laughed your last line. Downright witty.

  142. 142.

    mad citizen

    July 28, 2018 at 11:31 am

    @NobodySpecial: Hey Nobody Special, if no one else got the reference, I know what GenCon is, since I work across the street from the Indy convention center. It’s always a fun time seeing the attendees, costumes, etc.: https://www.gencon.com/. GenCon has become huge, and I think Indy locked it up for a good while.

  143. 143.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 11:33 am

    Ted Cruz will not stand for people spreading nutty rumors about his father and the Kennedy assassination

    Ted Cruz @ tedcruz
    Am no fan of Jones — among other things he has a habit of repeatedly slandering my Dad by falsely and absurdly accusing him of killing JFK — but who the hell made Facebook the arbiter of political speech? Free speech includes views you disagree with. #1A

    “His father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald’s being — you know, shot. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous,” Trump said Tuesday during a phone interview with Fox News. “What is this, right prior to his being shot, and nobody even brings it up. They don’t even talk about that. That was reported, and nobody talks about it.”
    “I mean, what was he doing — what was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death? Before the shooting?” Trump continued. “It’s horrible.”

  144. 144.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 11:34 am

    @MomSense: Have a good trip.

  145. 145.

    Rand Careaga

    July 28, 2018 at 11:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: On a road trip thirty-five years ago I dropped in on an old friend in North Carolina. In her day—the early to mid-seventies—she had cut a wide swath through Southern California young manhood in the LA party scene, so I was surprised to learn, catching up with her after seven years, that she was now playing for Team Sappho. “I’m fascinated by women’s breasts, Rand,” said she. “I love to kiss and fondle them.” “Why, what an extraordinary coincidence!” I exclaimed.

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2018 at 11:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I like to illustrate the concept of gender dimorphism by saying that women have breasts, and men should not.

  147. 147.

    Fair Economist

    July 28, 2018 at 11:43 am

    @Ohio Mom: Don’t worry, the housing market will not cause another Great Recession. It is overheated and due for a correction but it is nothing like the Aughts.

    I won’t make promises about trade wars, tax cuts, or Brexit.

  148. 148.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 11:44 am

    @Amir Khalid: Are you talking about moobs, now?

  149. 149.

    MobileForkbeard

    July 28, 2018 at 11:45 am

    @Mandarama: Are there any BJers in Austin? Looks like I’m going to be there for a few days in early October and I’ve got a least a couple nights free.

  150. 150.

    Redshift

    July 28, 2018 at 11:53 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t remember any talk about a dirty client list, as opposed to say, Lanny Davis, whose shady clients are mentioned all the time.

    I thought it came out fairly quickly that his previous client was the massively corrupt Putin-backed leader of Ukraine, but I could be wrong. I also recall some skepticism about the “convention rules” justification, since it had been more than a decade since Manafort had worked on a personal campaign, and rules aren’t static.

    There wasn’t enough skepticism, of course. But I think that was because most of the political class were assuming he was hired because most competent people wouldn’t work for Trump and because Trump is cheap and he worked for free.

  151. 151.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 11:53 am

    @Fair Economist: I’ve been waiting for a stock market correction for about six years. I think there have been two dips of, or very close to, 5%– one in ’14 or ’15 and one in Feb/March of this year?– but it bounced backed quickly kept going up. I’ve learned not to act on what I think the markets should do.

  152. 152.

    Baud

    July 28, 2018 at 11:55 am

    Who could have predicted?

    The trade relationship between the United States and Europe is improving, German Agriculture Minister Julia Kloeckner said on Saturday, but there is no guarantee the bloc will buy the quantity of soybeans that Washington expects.

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1KI0GD

  153. 153.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 11:56 am

    @jeffreyw:

    Cute dog :)

  154. 154.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Cat “sports highlight of the day”

  155. 155.

    WaterGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 11:58 am

    @Immanentize: My niece just got back from 2 college trips with her daughter, and she is exhausted. I suspect there is a lot of that going around!

  156. 156.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 28, 2018 at 11:59 am

    @ruemara: I’m in Thailand for genital reassignment surgery (I’m trans), i.e. re-arranging the bits to match the gender I’m living as. Was in the hospital for a week post-surgery, and now I’m back at the hotel for another three weeks before they’ll release me to go home (where I’m taking an additional month off before returning to work). Hotel is right next to the surgeon’s clinic, and he does enough patients that the hotel reserves two floors for them. His nurses do daily rounds, so I’m not like I’m on my own, plus there’s a community of 20 some odd patients who are there at any given time, and who tend to look out for each other.

    @debbie: Not at all. I’d rather have a cautious pharmacist (although from what’s I read about the potential drug interactions, perhaps a bit too cautious). My main gripe is that she didn’t alert the clinic staff who were taking me back to the hotel, and see if there were any alternatives that could’ve been arranged. (And ironically, her prescription for Tylenol is potentially dangerous because the total daily amount allowed exceeds the FDA limits and it’s easy to damage your liver with too much Tylenol.)

    Fortunately non-stop cold packs all day on my crotch have helped a lot, by reducing the swelling that’s contributing to the pain. Also helped that I finally had an enormous week’s plus-sized poop that relieved some of the pressure. (You’re strongly discouraged from pooping during the week you’re in the hospital because it can be problematic when you’re stuff full of vaginal package post-op.)

    @The Pale Scot: Oh definitely, been there done that when I had pinched nerve pain and couldn’t sleep. The trick is doing it in a way that no one loses face, Thailand being a “face culture.”

  157. 157.

    Baud

    July 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm

    Oh joy.

    RYAN PREPPING FOR 2020: Ohio Rep. Tim Ryan is telling consultants he intends to run for president and is beginning to put together a team, per The Intercept’s Ryan Grim and Zaid Jilani. Don’t miss their story for the bit about the “yoga vote.”

    CNN

  158. 158.

    gene108

    July 28, 2018 at 12:04 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It wasn’t a fist fight between some hulking black man and defenseless white guy. That really gets left out in the telling by a lot of folks.

  159. 159.

    Chyron HR

    July 28, 2018 at 12:05 pm

    @Baud:

    Every primary needs a what’s-his-face. You know. That guy. He killed a man.

  160. 160.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 12:05 pm

    @frosty: Hey, a Mudder! My son loved the vibe there. And their admissions marketing has been fantastic. He says he got the “I have found my people” feeling. He felt that way at MIT as well…he vibrated like a tuning fork the whole time. I’m just fretting because all of these schools could fill 10x their slots with very (somewhat) stable geniuses. Thing 1 here is not perfect or a savant; he’s just in love with numbers and patterns. (He was pretty much born that way. Husband and I both majored in English.)

  161. 161.

    StringOnAStick

    July 28, 2018 at 12:05 pm

    Getting ready to go out for another mountain bike ride in Crested Butte, CO after doing a really long, dusty and biting fly infused ride yesterday. Today will be mellower, I’m just not as strong as I used to be though I did advise and then passed 3 young guys half my age yesterday. They will have “crazy old lady on a bike” stories to tell when they get back home.

    It’s been at least 5 years since we’ve ridden here and the trails are in so much worse shape now that this is such a well known and well advertised destination, plus the CO population has boomed. That was my favorite trail but it’s so wash boarded now that the downhill pounds my knees, so that’s probably the last time I’ll ever ride it. Oh well, but I have great memories from it.

    We have friends who are house trading in Denver right now. The realtor they chose told them the market is starting to soften but starter priced is still moving well. Too much higher and they sit a bit. Denver has grown like mad for a long time and some slowing would be a good thing it seems.

  162. 162.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    @gene108: Something else commonly underestimated is initiative and determination. Whoever has the initiative has a huge advantage. And the stakes aren’t always mutually agreed upon. Is Travon looking to tell someone to back off and George looking to physically harm someone? If so, they’re going to enter this thing at a very different level. I learned that the hard way as a kid in NY in the 70s when what I thought was a standard playground fight resulted in a knife stuck in my leg. Not only did he get the first blow in, but when it wasn’t enough to tip the fight in his favor he went to ‘knife’. I never considered that knife would be making an appearance. I wanted to win the fight, not send him to the hospital. He wanted to send me to the hospital from the outset.

    Since then I always assume someone who is aggressive toward me is planning for the worst. First order of business is make sure they can’t get back up to find and use that weapon. But I had to learn that lesson the hard way. Thankfully I survived to make better decisions later. Trayvon didn’t.

    And this is part of the reason why I think cops in the US are so aggressive. They have to assume that a gun will make an appearance in any scenario, simply because they are so widespread and so unregulated and concealed and open carry so common. We will never make progress on police reform until we make progress on gun reform.

  163. 163.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    @Baud: IIRC there was something in the write-ups of his meeting with Juncker that they agreed to talk, and that they won’t talk about auto imports and rules. I think trump really wants to fuck with the auto industry, to do something “strong” and “tough”, and that will fuck things up. Somebody said in one of the streams of media white noise I have on too often for my own good, NPR or MSNBC, that GM and Ford were preparing for fuckery.

  164. 164.

    CaseyL

    July 28, 2018 at 12:08 pm

    Hi, everyone! I am treasuring the brief morning respite from the heat, thinking I should really work on some glass before my studio turns into a toaster oven. But I haven’t had my morning coffee yet, so…

    In other news, I am thinking about taking an early retirement. Office work at a major university is clearly not what I should be doing. The management culture is as toxic as anywhere in the private sector. Maybe worse because they use the language of respect, equality, “safe workplace,” and so on, but it turns out to only be an item on a liability-avoidance checklist.

    I am considering options. Working for a veterinarian looks good – at this point in my life, I’d rather spend my time with critters than with humans – or even retail at a lively, cheerful petfood store. I *really* want to sell my townhouse and move out of the city, but getting the place ready to fetch top dollar will require at least ten grand for various cosmetic repairs. I’m seriously considering it, though, esp. if the real estate market is starting to cool off.

    Decisions, decisions.

  165. 165.

    J R in WV

    July 28, 2018 at 12:08 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Glad you have left the hospital, hope the desire for better food is fulfilled!

    I will say this about that pain, when I had my shoulder replacement(s) we asked a friend RN to stay with us for a few days, not knowing what to expect. She told me I needed to stay ahead of the pain if at all possible. It is way harder to regain control having lost it than to keep it under control all along.

    Second shoulder I tried to move from the post op pain relief to my maintenance medications much too quickly. Once the post op meds wore off, I was not nearly as recovered as I had thought. In fact, I went through most of another prescription from the surgeon’s PA before leaving it behind, into PT for a couple of weeks, being driven around by wife.

    RN friend spent some years working as a trauma nurse at a local hospital, so knew her stuff cold. Very smart person. Several of our neighbors have gone into serious nursing as adults, after building their farms.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    July 28, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I had heard that they only agreed to talk, but I wasn’t sure if there was a separate deal on soybeans. It appears not.

  167. 167.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 12:10 pm

    @MobileForkbeard: i have to think a city as cool as Austin *must* have some jackals in the vicinity. In October the weather will be better—and I hope Beto will be getting ready to kick past odious Ted, too!

  168. 168.

    WaterGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    @jeffreyw: That was too funny!

  169. 169.

    Baud

    July 28, 2018 at 12:12 pm

    Pope Francis has accepted the resignation of a prominent US cardinal accused of sexually assaulting a teenager nearly 50 years ago.

    Theodore McCarrick, 88, a former Archbishop of Washington, must also carry out “penance and prayer” pending a canonical trial, the Vatican said.

    Last month US Church officials said the allegations were credible.

    Mr McCarrick has said he has “no recollection” of the alleged abuse. Further allegations have since emerged.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-44993221

  170. 170.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Did you see the report that we’re now down to flash cards to get through trade negotiations. Maybe Trudeau can show up with some hand puppets during the NAFTA talks. Are there any nursery rhymes that focus on multilateral trade negotiations?

  171. 171.

    trollhattan

    July 28, 2018 at 12:15 pm

    @Fair Economist:
    As someone less than a hundred miles from the lava-hot nexus of overheated real estate I can vouch that neither massive overbuilding nor tens of thousands of sub-prime mortgages (“deeds of trust”) are in play here. What’s primarily being built in my metroplex is mid and high-end multi-family in the city center, fare more than the typical suburban ranchettes. Even if the jerbs market cools the worst result would be easing back of the mindboggling rents they’re fetching.

    Seven-figure sales are suddenly commonplace in my neighborhood where recently we’d see one a year, tops. It’s Bay Area refugees and when that slows I’ll surrender some of my paper equity but shed no tears. Folks cashing in on that sweet equity in a refi might feel differently, but I’m not that guy.

  172. 172.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 12:16 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Wow, you are brave. All the best to you!

  173. 173.

    trollhattan

    July 28, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    @Baud:
    They’re supposed to by a “China-worth” of soybeans? Where would they even keep it all? Morans.

    I’m waiting for the almond ranchers to start whining at Trumpy. Coastal elite bastards.

  174. 174.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    @StringOnAStick: Oh, where in Crested Butte? I lived up there for a year. Always loved mountain-biking on the loops. Will never forget how Stella led Luna into an encounter there with a porcupine. Nothing like being on the trail pulling quills out of a puppy’s muzzle.

  175. 175.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    @Mandarama: You need to remember they may not want 100% stable geniuses. HMC could have filled my class with Californians from private schools. I think I was a diversity admission: easterner from an average public high school. I didn’t even have calculus in HS! But I finished, which half of my class didn’t.

  176. 176.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 12:26 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Donnie really, really hates imported, expensive, German cars (M-B, BMW, Audi) He really, really wants to slap huge – 35% – duties on them. (WARNING – FTFNYT link). He pointedly said that his agreement with Junker did not include autos.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he tries to impose some huge tariffs on imported cars from Europe, but it’s hard to think of a more Republican group overall than premium auto dealers, so who knows what would happen. No doubt he would do his best to spin anything into some Giant Bigly Victory, no matter how much other damage he does in the process…

    (sigh)

    101 days to go. The only way to end this madness is to vote Trump’s Minions out of office everywhere.

    Eyes on the prize.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  177. 177.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    @trollhattan: Yeah, things here in SoCal are a bit more manageable, but if they added half a million units, we’d still be above the national median home price. Thankfully my city has mostly shifted to high density multi-use properties – 4-5 stories above retail. Rents/sales prices for these are quite a bit lower and the increased density means we might take another run at mass transit. Parking lots and not farms are becoming the constraining factor on continued growth.

  178. 178.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 12:27 pm

    @gene108: Despite his physical advantage w/o any gun, Z’s swaggering is all about how his gun proves he’s a tough man. The NRA says so too: Real men carry guns. Reminds me of the old manly cigarette ads. And starting to smoke was a rite of passage; while now the sales pitch is increasingly about getting your young kids their first gun.

  179. 179.

    CaseyL

    July 28, 2018 at 12:34 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Oh, that poor baby – ouch! Did you make it a point to carry a pliers with you at all times?

    @Sister Golden Bear: I was going to mention the dangers associated with Tylenol, so am glad to see you’re aware of them. It sounds like they’re taking very good care of you. Best wishes for a speedy recovery and joy with your now-correct body!

  180. 180.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    @Miss Bianca: That is the worst. So painful–for the dog too : ) –and on their so sensitive noses. Watson would never be so foolhardy. : )

  181. 181.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @? Martin: thanks for that perspective.

  182. 182.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @frosty: The misconception by the public is that colleges admit based on top line GPAs and SATs. We don’t. We admit mostly based on local context. How well you did with what you had to work with. Sure, you can fill your class with AP Calculus students from Palo Alto, but you’re going to miss a ton of talented students that didn’t have the foresight to be born to rich parents in Palo Alto. We’d rather take a top student from an underfunded school than someone in the 20th percentile at a school where every kid did 11 SAT prep programs.

    Some would consider that a ‘diversity’ effort, but we really do believe that every student regardless of geography should have the chance to go to college, and if we can hold off the SAT/GPA race we’re happy to do it. I know a number of the folks at HMC and they have the same attitude.

    FWIW, HMC is the best undergraduate engineering program in the country. That’s not a hugely popular opinion, but I think it’s unquestionably true. Nothing against MIT and Stanford, but their focus is more at the grad level.

  183. 183.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    @CaseyL: Actually, amazingly, I had my Geek Tool on me at the time, which had a pair of pliers as part of its array. Lucky, that, because she was scraping her paws bloody, and we were several miles from home.

  184. 184.

    Aleta

    July 28, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: Sometimes I’m amazed at how well cold packs work for some pains. Hope it gets better soon.

  185. 185.

    J R in WV

    July 28, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    So, now we know that Rafael Eduardo Cruz doesn’t understand how the constitution of the United States works:

    Ted Cruz @ tedcruz
    Am no fan of Jones — among other things he has a habit of repeatedly slandering my Dad by falsely and absurdly accusing him of killing JFK — but who the hell made Facebook the arbiter of political speech? Free speech includes views you disagree with. #1A

    Free Speech as discussed in the First Amendment only addresses the government’s inability to limit speech. Facebook, Twitter, AT&T can all limit speech on their platforms to what is generally and commonly considered acceptable for polite society.

    Which is none of Alex Jones’s bullshit, which is lies intended to cause harm to individuals and to society as a whole. No private business needs to facilitate Jones’s lies for any reason at all, and especially not because of the First Amendment, which only applies to government control of speech, which is right there in the text of the 1A:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Cruz is a dumb ass, supposedly a brilliant scholar, Ivy league, doesn’t remember as much about the Constitution as I do, a public school guy mostly, no law school, no polysci, just liberal arts and computer science. I’m better qualified to be a US Senator that Cruz is, I have a heart! And a brain!! he apparently has neither…

  186. 186.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    Any one have a head count for the nyc meet-up? I’m thinking of making commemorative buttons!

  187. 187.

    H.E.Wolf

    July 28, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    @Mandarama:

    I’m just fretting because all of these schools could fill 10x their slots with very (somewhat) stable geniuses. Thing 1 here is not perfect or a savant; he’s just in love with numbers and patterns.

    Once upon a time I had a [very low-level] job in a departmental admissions office. About 1 in 10 applicants were admitted… and it was really clear that the “I found my people” vibe went both ways. It wasn’t all on the basis of test scores, either, which was heartening.

    I predict that Thing 1 will be recognized as “one of ours” by the admissions folks.

  188. 188.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 28, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @? Martin: Ignorant and proud of it, like his base.

  189. 189.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @? Martin: For me, what sets Mudd apart is the requirement to take 30% of your classes in the humanities. That leads to different kinds of engineers and scientists and a different pool of frosh than other STEM schools like Va Tech.

  190. 190.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    @J R in WV: Besides, Cruz himself correctly accuses Jones of slander, which is not protected speech.

  191. 191.

    H.E.Wolf

    July 28, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    @Baud:

    there is no guarantee the bloc will buy the quantity of soybeans that Washington expects.

    If I recall correctly, the bad guys in Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” are sneered at (by the omniscient authorial voice) for overproducing soybeans and then letting them rot.

    I’ve never cared to figure out whether Ayn was sneering at soybeans as Foreign, or Unmanly, but there’s definitely an undertone of some kind. (There’s also a Problem With Grapefruit, as I remember. Grapefruit is somehow REALLY unmanly. [ETA: it is in “Atlas Shrugged”, I mean.])

  192. 192.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 12:57 pm

    @frosty: We’re pretty close to that (25%) but what makes Mudd special is that they’re a size that allows faculty to make meaningful investments in individual student success, and that’s hard to find at a program with the resources to provide good engineering facilities, faculty with industry experience and good pedagogy, and a whole person focus. It’s a really fantastic program.

  193. 193.

    Josie

    July 28, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @? Martin:

    This is a very cogent explanation of fight dynamics that I had never heard before. It makes a ton of sense and has given me something to think about. Thanks much.

  194. 194.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: fentanyl patch? Has helped the wife a great deal.

  195. 195.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: J uses prescription pain patches for various issues, and has for years. It helps her a lot, but of course, like any medication in the USA, there are the usual annoyances:

    1) The local drugstore being bought out (Rite Aid to Walgreens) means that they by default carry a different brand now.

    2) So the price changes, and the adhesive / plastic used changes.

    3) So, it doesn’t work as well.

    4) So she has to special-order the brand she wants.

    5) So she has to fight with her insurance company to get reimbursed properly.

    6) GOTO 2

    It’s annoying. :-/

    Here’s hoping that SGB and all the other Jackals fighting with pain issues find something that works for them, and are able to stick with it without issues.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  196. 196.

    MagdaInBlack

    July 28, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @Aleta:
    For that type, masculinity comes from externals: its a costume one wears, usually an exagerated costume : big guns, big trucks, big talk, etc. Take away the costume, they have nothing. Thats why ( my theory ) they’re so frightened.

    See also : Trump behavior.

  197. 197.

    chopper

    July 28, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    @Baud:

    i’ll put aside a bottle of dago red wine in case he wins.

  198. 198.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    I’m in Thailand for genital reassignment surgery

    CONGRATULATIONS! At least two thirds of my friends are trans. I have no clue why. It does put me in a position to say that the surgery makes a big difference in happiness, and also takes some serious recovery. This is a major step in your life, and I am thrilled for you.

  199. 199.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Call your representative! But be careful…

    Last week, Dana Rohrabacher called the cops on a caller who they thought asked too many questions. This is a disgusting, out-of-bounds move for any Congressman regardless of party. https://t.co/YVXuf5UoFy
    — Jeremy Fassler (@J_fassler) July 27, 2018

  200. 200.

    Shell

    July 28, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    My gosh, a day here in Maryland where it ISNT going to rain? Can I actually leave some of the windows open for a few hours? I cringe hearing about the devastating fires in California and again wish we could somehow parcel our weather around the country.

  201. 201.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    @Josie: Ideally in a fight, you get the first move and that move is enough to cripple your opponent to some degree. If all you can do is stun them, that’s pretty good – you keep the initiative. Think of it as a kind of debt that you have just put on your opponent. But, if that move results in them recalibrating the rules of the fight, and they escalate to a weapon, or from causing pain to causing permanent damage, then you might be in trouble.

    After that fight I got into an incident with a couple of bullies about a year later. They knocked me off my bike and threw my bike into traffic. Wasn’t much I could do there but back down as I was smaller than either of them, but I was ready for the next encounter. I had learned. They escalated the next attack and tried to throw me into traffic. But I had a pipe wrench hidden in my sweatshirt and put both of them in the hospital – one for quite a long time with a skull fracture and some other broken bones. I knew then I couldn’t afford either of them to get up (turns out one had a knife but never got a chance to pull it out). I was outnumbered and both were bigger than me. They thought they understood the rules of this bullying thing and I changed those rules. Nobody bullied me after that. Word spread fast in middle school. But they had also lost the initiative – I was ready for them. I expected it, and sacrificed the bike immediately to prevent me from getting hurt and countered their move before they realized that things had changed.

    Thankfully for them and me a motorist stopped and pulled me off of them. I think I would have kept swinging that wrench until they stopped moving. I was not going to get stabbed twice. Also thankfully for me, he was able to give a statement to the police for how the incident started, though I think I would have been okay otherwise. I was like 90 lbs and they had 3x my mass. I’d have to be a fucking sociopath to start that fight.

  202. 202.

    J R in WV

    July 28, 2018 at 1:22 pm

    @Another Scott:

    I had a similar round with my Medicare supplemental insurer, Humana.

    Evidently my commonly prescribed inexpensive generic for my chronic condition was bought up by a MBA thinking along the lines of Michael whatshisname who promptly increased the cost by a couple of orders of magnitude.

    So my family doc studied a little and found another generic I’m trying. But obviously it doesn’t work the same as or as well as the original drug. I wrote a furious letter to the CEO of Humana, but then never mailed it. No point. He wouldn’t ever even see it. But his security office would. No thanks!

  203. 203.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    @frosty: Many thanks for this perspective, and same to Martin and H.E. Wolf! Mudd’s core curriculum offering is actually one of the appealing factors to my kid. Even though the humanities classes don’t come as naturally to him, he really values the experience of them. His other dream schools also have requirements along those lines (MIT and UChicago). He liked Penn less upon visiting because their disciplines are siloed, and Brown’s open curriculum didn’t appeal to him either.

    I actually think diversity recruiting is great, since I have seen a huge improvement in my own formerly-homogenous Southern university in the last 20 years. So while Thing 1’s being from a TN public school may help a little at his dream colleges, he is still a middle-class white dude and I have no problem with the fact that he might not get some chances because he belongs to an overrepresented category. I had an argument with my beloved old FIL about this, because Fox News told him our precious baby “is going to be discriminated against.” ? I told him he could always feel better by looking at photos of Congress or Fortune CEOs.

  204. 204.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @germy: Fuck them. Getting arrested when not breaking the law is the risk we need to be willing to take. I’ve had run-ins with Dana before. He’s okay up to a point and then he goes ballistic.

  205. 205.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    July 28, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @Baud:
    I’m so sorry for foisting this doofus on America guys. He’s my rep and he’s a reliable Dem vote. That’s it.

  206. 206.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    I’m not a big TMZ-whatever the fuck guy, but… what the fuck? were Brady and Lucretia ever a thing?

    Maggie Haberman @ maggieNYT
    For months, Trump’s relationship to Kushner seemed tense. Trump “could’ve had Tom Brady” as a son-in-law, he told several people. “Instead, I got Jared Kushner.”

    trump’s whole psycho-sexual vicarious-fantasy thing with Ivanka just gets creepier and creepier

  207. 207.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    @? Martin: Just between you and me, I think Dana takes money from Russia.

  208. 208.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 1:31 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is what her access journalism gets her. A “juicy” tidbit about wishing his daughter had married someone more popular and manly. This is the inside stuff that makes Maggie feel superior to the rest of us outsiders.

    Was this news really worth losing her credibility over?

  209. 209.

    ? Martin

    July 28, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Trump shopping Ivanka around seems very much in-character.

  210. 210.

    dmsilev

    July 28, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @frosty: I was at MIT (cough) years ago, and we had to take 25% Humanities classes of various sorts. It’s a really good idea for technical schools.

  211. 211.

    Elizabelle

    July 28, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    @? Martin: You win my personal “comment of the thread” with comment 161.

    Black people, and others, are dying from police violence because there are too many guns out there in the populace and the police just assume they’re dealing with a gun. Police are afraid of the population they are there to protect and serve. They will never admit that, but they are. Thanks, NRA.

    I had that experience a few months ago. I was stopped by a very young state trooper for searching along a major highway for a lost puppy I’d seen a few days previously. Main takeway for me was that he was afraid of me, even though I am a middle-aged white lady who was armed with a dog leash, an EZ open can of dog food, a cell phone, and my keys. Period. He was kind enough to give me a ride back to my car, but was never at ease. (He’d already called in my information and had me empty my pockets before I was ever allowed in the cruiser.)

    Kicker to the whole thing was, on ride back, we chatted and it turns out he’s a competitive shooter. He suggested I might enjoy taking up firearms too. Big believer in the 2nd amendment. Uh huh.

  212. 212.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 28, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    @? Martin: I can picture that golf game
    “You should call my daughter Ivanka. She’s a real piece of ass, just ask Stern”
    “Um, Donald, I’m married… to a supermodel with more money than you…”
    “You’d have beautiful children, the chins would be a problem, but Ivanka’s got a chin doctor, the best, you wouldn’t believe it!
    “I have three kids already… what?”
    “and think of how much you could get for exclusive press rights to that wedding, for photos of the honeymoon. I know the guy at the National Enquirer, terrific, classy. And we’re about to open a hotel in Baku. It’s in the Philippines. Or Montenegro. Somewhere like that. Terrific, classy like you’ve never seen”

  213. 213.

    dmsilev

    July 28, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    @Mandarama: Chicago’s core curriculum is very much a love-it-or-hate-it thing. I know people in both categories. Very much worth having your kid talk with students there to make sure that it matches what he wants.

  214. 214.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    @Mandarama: I went to Chicago for college, and am thankful I did. Having a decent background in the humanities is really, really important for later in life. Technical stuff leaned in College is obsolete really quickly these days, but knowing how to read and write and think reasonably clearly will never go out of style. One really does have to figure out how to teach one-self and stay reasonably current in technical fields, and that means much more than figuring out how to solve problems in class. It’s going to get more and more important as the world continues to get smaller and more inter-connected, also too.

    Tech and STEM whizes who don’t spend time reading and writing literature and history and economics and the like along with their STEM classes are hurting themselves (and the country’s (and the world’s) future).

    J has spent the last few weeks working with a recent PhD (trying to help him with a post-doc application). She’s pulling her hair out because he seems to have little or know conception of how bad his English is – and he’s a native US-ian… :-(

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  215. 215.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    @Waldo:
    I see your problem. You are giving shitgibbon enough credit to actually think, especially enough to think ahead. You are right that if he could do that this is the direction he’d go, but alas it’s not actual thought, it’s just shear incompetence allied with shear malfeasance.

  216. 216.

    Josie

    July 28, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @? Martin:

    Thanks again. I’m a writer, and you have just helped me with a section that I have been struggling with. Who knew i could find fight expertise on BJ? ;-)

  217. 217.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @Another Scott: Wow, thank you for that ringing endorsement of the importance of the humanities for STEM students! With your permission, I’d like to send it off to my best high school bud, a PhD in Comp Lit currently teaching in a very STEM-oriented high school. She’ll be delighted with it!

    On the flip side…given that tech does tend to get dated…I keep wondering what the minimum amount of STEM knowledge to be actually ‘literate’ in it is for people like me, who were drawn to and gifted in the humanities – English, other languages, history, philosophy – but struggled with math and science, and also dithered over filling the STEM requirements for my undergrad degree.

  218. 218.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @Immanentize:

    I guess all ground belongs to the white folks.

    Seems somewhere around 27% of them think that exactly. Funny how that is.
    Not.

  219. 219.

    Fair Economist

    July 28, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    @germy:

    Was this news really worth losing her credibility over?

    Maggie Haberman is friends with Roger Stone. She has always been on their side, and never had any credibility to lose. She throws out the cute gossip and occasional negative but irrelevant tidbit to disguise the fact she shills for them.

  220. 220.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    @Another Scott: know conception no conception

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  221. 221.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    @Another Scott: “Having a decent background in the humanities is really, really important for later in life. Technical stuff leaned in College is obsolete really quickly these days, but knowing how to read and write and think reasonably clearly will never go out of style.”

    This is why I generally hire only liberal arts majors.

    And I really wish more people understood your last point about focusing on tech skills and ignoring the humanities is making the works a worse place.

    The dude who invented the MBA will spend eternity in hell next to the guy who invented the leaf blower.

  222. 222.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 1:59 pm

    @Another Scott: Thanks to you and dsmilev both! I know what you mean. My kid would like such requirements, but several of his friends would not. Our tour guide at MIT was a little salty (as the kids say) about the core requirements he must endure, heh. I teach college writing to mostly non-humanities kids, and it is a slog for them and for me. But ultimately I know the difference it makes.

  223. 223.

    dmsilev

    July 28, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    @Miss Bianca: What I’d call a reasonable survey of STEM, in the context of a four-year college stay:

    * A couple of math courses. Definitely statistics (really useful for understanding all sorts of things), and then maybe a survey course in calculus.
    * A course or two of computer coding. The specific languages and features go in and out of style quite quickly, but a lot of the basic concepts don’t change. Again, gives some tools for understanding what tech specialists are talking about
    * A physical engineering course. Mechanical or civil or something like that. Real world behavior of things.
    * A few basic science courses, whether the traditional bio/chem/physics, or something else. Get an idea of the scientific method, what is and isn’t reasonable questions for science to address, some sense as to the current state of understanding of the world.

    That’d be about one course per semester, spread over a four year program, and is aimed at giving a broad perspective on ways of thinking, rather than specific knowledge which might become obsolete fast.

  224. 224.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:03 pm

    @rikyrah:
    At some point most people do recognize crap when they see it, especially if they have to pay hard earned money to buy it. Except for shoes of course.

  225. 225.

    p.a.

    July 28, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    Have there been site issues? Or has it been my ISP?

  226. 226.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 2:07 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    The dude who invented the MBA will spend eternity in hell next to the guy who invented the leaf blower.

    Steve, are you actually in the ATL today, or somewhere else? I need to know where you want your Internets delivered.

  227. 227.

    Another Scott

    July 28, 2018 at 2:11 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Sure, forward away. Glad you liked it. :-)

    J and I both got our STEM PhDs around 30 years ago. We both took lots of math, physics, etc., classes. But neither of us has had need for the various tricks (“as you learned in kindergarten, here you have to complete the square…!”) for solving physics problems since then. In our case, it’s all about studying new materials, new uses for them, new characterization techniques to figure out what’s going on at the fundamental levels, etc. Yeah, you have to have some gut-level understanding of the underlying physics, but having the ability to think in new areas is what really matters. The theorists worry about all the math, and even then they write proposals for time on the various US supercomputer farms, rather than doing long-hand derivations. Almost nobody, well except for that one weird guy, ;-) , does closed-form long-hand derivations of partial differential equations with relativistic Green’s Functions, etc., etc. any more. In our area, that is – I’m sure that people who write the software have to know the derivations in many cases. But the real-world problems are too complex these days for long-hand derivations, so software is the way to go.

    But even with the software, one has to be able to write proposals and reports and prepare presentations and argue coherently in a short amount of time (“I’m busy, what’s your ‘elevator pitch’ for why I should care about what you want to have funded over the next 3 years?”). In the real world of research these days, the humanities are incredibly important, even for brainiac STEM people.

    /soapbox

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  228. 228.

    burnspbesq

    July 28, 2018 at 2:11 pm

    @Mandarama:

    Be prepared for the kid to fall in love with Claremont. Gorgeous campus, gorgeous town, awesome school. Basically Williams without winter. Wicked expensive.

  229. 229.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: If I were drinking something right now it’d be coming out my nostrils!

  230. 230.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    "Don't confuse Roger Stone with the character I play," says Stone, the dirty-trickster who may have done 1 too many https://t.co/68TnjVVF7u
    — Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) March 21, 2017

  231. 231.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    @dmsilev: Ooh, wow, I think you’ve just given me my Khan Academy curriculum! Thanks! ; )

    In all seriousness, that sounds like a good, intellectually rigorous course.

    One of the things that drew me to the thought of applying to St. John’s College, was the idea that there was this core base of knowledge to be fluent in Western Civilization, and that hands-on study accompanying certain classic scientific texts was part of the curriculum for all students. They were the very model of the not-so-modern Canon, and very unapologetic about it.

    Now, the actual experience may have driven me crazy – since even as a starry-eyed high school student back in the 70s I couldn’t but note critically that there was only *one* text on their Canonical List that was written by a woman – Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice – but on the other hand, I would have been learning Classical Greek and studying Newtonian physics, which would have been…kinda cool, if not particularly relevant to my workaday world.

  232. 232.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Remember the old days when being “well rounded” was a good thing? ?

  233. 233.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 2:19 pm

    @burnspbesq: Too late! He and his dad went out there on spring break. Gorgeous time of year. I’m resigned to it all. And I’m afeared of flying, so that aspect will be fun. Still, it’s my job to launch them as far as they want to go.

  234. 234.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    @germy: Oh my God…am I reading this wrong, or is Maggie H actually *throwing shade* on a Master of the Universe? And if she is doing something so wildly uncharacteristic, is it a sign of the Apocalypse, or merely that Roger Stone is about to be toast?

  235. 235.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    @Redshift:

    most competent people wouldn’t work for Trump and because Trump is cheap and he worked for free.

    And it looks very much like he didn’t work for free either. Just that his paycheck came from 4664 miles away.

  236. 236.

    J R in WV

    July 28, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    @germy:

    Last week, Dana Rohrabacher called the cops on a caller who they thought asked too many questions. This is a disgusting, out-of-bounds move for any Congressman regardless of party. https://t.co/YVXuf5UoFy
    — Jeremy Fassler (@J_fassler) July 27, 2018

    Pretty typical petty behavior for fearful RWNJs. Rohrabacher also announced his support for returning Alaska to Russia last week, “if a majority of people in Alaska would support that change…”!

    What a clown. Why? Just why?

  237. 237.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 2:24 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Minimum? Definitely physics. Newton’s Laws, electricity/ magnetism (Maxwell’s Equations). Then relativity and maybe quantum. Chemistry and biology? High school level OK. Math? I’d say enough calculus to do the physics. I think you could skip multivariable and complex and differential equations.

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:28 pm

    @? Martin:

    Are there any nursery rhymes that focus on multilateral trade negotiations?

    How would you get the shitgibbon to understand them?

  239. 239.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 28, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    @J R in WV: Wonder how Dana would feel about returning Alta California to Mexico “if a majority of people in California would support that change…”?

  240. 240.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Whenever somebody gives me the tired thing about how, obviously students aren’t taking Russian because it won’t get them a job, I tell them about my student who got into every major law school in the country (she chose Yale). People are really ill-informed about how an undergraduate major relates to one’s eventual career.

  241. 241.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I think that tweet was from 2014.

  242. 242.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    @frosty: @Mandarama:
    The Immp is looking at a lot of schools that are total crap shots for him. Like his college counselor said, once you get to 15% or less acceptance rate, every school is a reach….
    For various reasons, the Immp is not applying to MIT — too many locals apply, and he did not like the computer science department vibe. Also, not on the common app. at all. He is already forced into writing the common app., the coalition app (UTex) and the U.Cal. system app. The things these poor kids go through! He is also looking at Michigan, which he really liked when we went — tremendous facilities. Then there are ones closer to home — UMass. Amherst, Northeastern, that “H” school because it has a new entrepreneurial engineering program, and that “Y” school because of it’s amazingly well funded theoretical AI program…. I think he likes Rice best so far because it focuses almost exclusively on a broad based undergraduate education he knows he can head somewhere else for grad school. I hate to wish time away, but I will be happy when this is all decided by — at the latest — next May.

    We should all swap stories in September….

  243. 243.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    @? Martin: “Are there any nursery rhymes that focus on multilateral trade negotiations?”

    You meant to ask, “are there any pr0n movies that focus on multilateral trade negotiations?”

  244. 244.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    @Miss Bianca:
    Try it out of a full sized GS. Took 3 of us and as I had the least gravity affecting me by 30 or so lbs each I had to pull out the quills. No pliers. Fun times.

  245. 245.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 28, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    @Miss Bianca: St. John’s is a really interesting place.

    I feel like people don’t talk enough about the importance of STEM literacy for humanities majors. Apologies if that was explicit on the thread, my coffee is only now kicking in.

  246. 246.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: math is hard.

  247. 247.

    Eljai

    July 28, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Debbie Does Multilateral Trade Agreements?

  248. 248.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:37 pm

    @Immanentize: he likes Rice best because…he visited there the one week a year that Houston isn’t a hot, humid, miserable swamp?

    And I wanted you about what happened to my grandfather after he graduated from Rice.

  249. 249.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:38 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I have a heart! And a brain!! he apparently has neither…

    He’d never have been elected to congress as a repub if he had those. It’s in their bylaws that they are not allowed to possess or even borrow the use of them. And it shows.

  250. 250.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    @Eljai: perfect! Well, as long as the star looks like Ivanka.

    Jesus. Just from typing that I need a drink and a Silkwood shower.

  251. 251.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: This is so true! Look at me! A creative Wrting/Cinema double major who went to law school. OK, don’t look at me….

    But people are right — the ability to think through a problem and work in teams are the two ultimate skills needed for success. All the rest is application of knowledge learned. There is a nice sub-movement in the University world called “STEAM” instead of “STEM” which adds the arts to the mix. But communication skills are, I think, more important even than creativity in most job situations. When my students ask me what do they really need to focus on to be great attorneys, I quote the Rolling Stones and tell them, “Everything in the world that you can possibly imagine!”

  252. 252.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: warned, not wanted, you stupid phone and stupid website without a mobile edit function!

  253. 253.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 28, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I would be happy if our journalists could do arithmetic and understand percentages.

  254. 254.

    James E Powell

    July 28, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    @germy:

    This is the inside stuff that makes Maggie feel superior to the rest of us outsiders.

    The NYT – really the entire press/media – believe their purpose is to deliver this kind of inside stuff.

  255. 255.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    @dmsilev:

    A physical engineering course. Mechanical or civil or something like that. Real world behavior of things.

    Many colleges and Universities have great, creative courses like this. At my University, there is a course in Urban Physics which teaches students about large scale urban infrastructure designs and implementations like water delivery, sewage removal and processing, the electric grid, and traffic control. It is such a great course. And it is all physics.

  256. 256.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 28, 2018 at 2:42 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: But it isn’t! At work we implement a remedial stats literacy course for community college students that succeeds partly because the curriculum is designed to “rescue” students from thinking they “just aren’t a math person” and will never be able to learn it because “math is hard.”

    And really even basic statistical literacy–not just numeric but understanding statistics–plus some logic, would go a long way. And if that’s not out of reach for community college remedial math students I’m sure you can figure it out, mister globetrotting lawyer.

    @schrodingers_cat: Yep.

  257. 257.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: not so worried about myself as I took calculus as a high school junior, but agree that statistics should be mandatory for all US citizens.

  258. 258.

    germy

    July 28, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    @James E Powell:

    The NYT – really the entire press/media – believe their purpose is to deliver this kind of inside stuff.

    Rather than the… actual issues that affect our lives.

  259. 259.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I would be happy if our journalists could understand the difference between “disinterested” and “uninterested”. How do we have a fourth estate that’s not good at math OR English?!

  260. 260.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: OK, “remedial stats literacy course” is EXACTLY what I want to start with, well…STAT! That student you’re describing is ME!

  261. 261.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 2:51 pm

    @Immanentize: Michigan is on Thing 1’s list as well, but we haven’t managed to visit. I’m so glad you guys liked it! That is valuable input. I know what you mean about not wanting to wish time away. I’m really trying to work less this year so I can concentrate on his last year at home. At the same time, the application process is overwhelming, like you said. (A lot of stress on kids who already work a lot harder in school than I ever had to at their age.)

    My tiny LAC required me to complete two years of core that included physics, psychology, economics, math, etc. and I am really grateful, even though I knew I wanted to be an English teacher from the fifth grade on. And my husband has degrees in English and creative writing, and he is an IT director.

    The PI in the lab my son worked in this summer talked to him about critical thinking and the difference between being “a consumer of knowledge and a producer of knowledge.”

  262. 262.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Stats and a good course about using excel.

  263. 263.

    sgrAstar

    July 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    @Kristine: and don’t forget to visit the Willamette meteorite, at the Natural History Museum. It is HUGE and awe-inspiring.

  264. 264.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    The dude who invented the MBA will spend eternity in hell next to the guy who invented the leaf blower.

    Trying to come up with a witty line but can only say QFT! OK, OK here goes, the MBA guy has to stand at attention in a leaf suit and the leaf blower guy has an unlimited supply of gas and a serious tremor in his throttle hand.

  265. 265.

    smintheus

    July 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    Deliberate obtuseness in this Washington Post article explaining why the Trumpsters kidnapping children couldn’t re-unite them with parents. It’s pretty damn heavy with excuse mongering about the limitations of federal databases. But no mention of Trump’s public declaration that the kidnappings were intended to terrorize migrants. No mention of the refusal to give parents or children info about where family members could be found. Barely even acknowledges the possibility certainty that the administration intended all along not to re-unite families.

    Basic words like “cruelty” don’t appear at all in the article, although administration apologists are quoted at length explaining that their actions and motives have been deliberately misrepresented, their good intentions [sic] ignored.

    However, not a single parent or child is quoted. Or named.

  266. 266.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @Mandarama: “The PI in the lab my son worked in this summer talked to him about critical thinking and the difference between being “a consumer of knowledge and a producer of knowledge.””

    Be a B-J front pager, not just a commenter!

  267. 267.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Oh, God, you haven’t been around my institution then.

  268. 268.

    zhena gogolia

    July 28, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Oh, that battle has been lost, I’m afraid. That’s one of my pet peeves too. Why get rid of a perfectly good word by smushing it with another one that means something different?

  269. 269.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 2:59 pm

    @Immanentize: @Miss Bianca: @Major Major Major Major: was playing golf a few years ago with a magazine publisher. When my putt on one hole didn’t quite make it to the cup, he told me that 95% of putts that are short don’t go in. I always thought he was making a joke, but the current state of our media has caused me rethink that.

  270. 270.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @Mandarama:

    a consumer of knowledge and a producer of knowledge.”

    That sounds a lot like my very broad definition of scholarship — Expressing a unique idea that is tested in public. It requires something new, but also that it will be examined and considered by others. Creating knowledge rather than consuming it is the same point, I think.

    If you do get to Michigan, ask to see the Wilson Center — it’s like 22,000 sq. ft. of maker space — for the friggin’ clubs! Solar racer, Baha racer, solar sea, robotics, hyper loop. Amazing.

  271. 271.

    Suzanne

    July 28, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @Immanentize:

    But communication skills are, I think, more important even than creativity in most job situations.

    The arts are communications. In fact, that is all they are.
    Visual literacy is desperately needed these days.
    As someone who works with so very many engineers who have crap skills at both verbal/written communication, as well as zero ability to observe or envision a damn thing, I can tell you that engineers desperately need both humanities and fine arts in their lives.

  272. 272.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:03 pm

    @smintheus:

    However, not a single parent or child is quoted. Or named.

    This is a serious tell. If they wanted people to care, they would be all over the human aspects of this horror story.

  273. 273.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 28, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: I have an MBA – the biggest problem I found there (and it was more pronounced with the undergraduate commerce students) was that the faculty actively discouraged clear thinking and writing in favour of bullet points that obscured rather than clarified the conclusion

  274. 274.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    @Another Scott:
    They are also important in many other areas of work. Pretty much anywhere you actually have to think to accomplish the task. Let’s say you run a plastic molding machine. You have to know how to remove the part, trim the part and fill the box. For 8 hrs a day. The 2 hardest parts are the boredom from the repetition and the noise and they make comfortable ear plugs. Let’s say you make the molds that fit in the machine that the operator has to stand in front of for 8 hrs. It might take months to design and build all the interacting parts that are built to rocket motor tolerances and you have to be able to see the 3D end result built around a drawing of the part just to get started. It requires a way of thinking that is much more rounded than most people get from school.
    It’s not just current day tech that requires real thought over rigid rote work. It’s any process other than production repetition.

  275. 275.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    @debbie: assuming you’re not just taking a shot at the fat around my waist I haven’t been able to shake since hitting middle age, in my family we were expected to be renaissance men. I’ve always been grateful for that as it has made me a better husband, father, lawyer, and citizen of the world.

    I knew that I couldn’t learn everything so I decided that one area to skip would be Middle East politics. A hugely complex and irrational problem that likely won’t be resolved until those lunatics nuke each other. One of the many things for which I will never forgive the W. Bush cabal is forcing me to learn about it. Fuckers.

  276. 276.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    @Suzanne: I wish the engineering schools would hire you to explain that problem. My son is a good writer, a pretty fair photographer, and good at coming up with novel narrative ideas. Also, he is good in a team — a skill he learned in his years of robotics. Also, he can program. The last is more knowledge and the former things will take him places regardless what he ends up being passionate about.

  277. 277.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    Was at lunch the other day and one of the guys was talking about his son getting ready to go to college. Someone asked about a specific school and dad’s answer was, “It’s $66,000/yr tuition for there, he’s not going there.” Dad’s a working machinist, makes decent money but nearly $300,000 for his kid to go to school? Ain’t going to happen.

  278. 278.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    @Immanentize: I can see in my own students how much they want to just go to either published criticism or a crowd-sourced site like Shmoop and just expand on a safe idea about a text we’re reading. They’re scared to interpret on their own in case they get it wrong, and that is a problem. I’d rather see them take some risks in their thinking, even if they end up with an argument that needs a lot of work. And I would say in the last 10 years I have gotten a lot more resentment from students about the fact that there is not a rubric or a quantifiable checklist that will get them an A grade on a paper.

    @Suzanne: Truth!

  279. 279.

    smintheus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:11 pm

    @Immanentize: The kindest interpretation is that they wanted to give voice to the bureaucratic view that the scandal was mostly caused by bad record keeping practices. Which of course is BS. They don’t want the public to care too passionately, they want the public to say ‘oh alright then, if that’s all it was.’

  280. 280.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    @Suzanne: architects are a curious bunch. Not many people can handle both the engineering and design aspects that the profession requires. Thus we end up with a lot of wannabes who become engineers or interior designers instead. Or, you know, shitty architects.

  281. 281.

    smintheus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    @Mandarama: I’m heading back in the direction of something I did with success early in my career: give numerical scores on essays rather than letter grades, and break those down further into 3 or 4 components (development of thesis; comprehensiveness and/or insight of thesis; use of the textual evidence; quality of English). Students are much more willing to accept my assessment and adapt to my expectations when I give them [admittedly faux] precision about elements I’m looking for.

  282. 282.

    Suzanne

    July 28, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @Immanentize: In my career, I work with structural, mechanical, civil, electrical, and plumbing engineers daily, and then other specialty engineers on an as-needed basis. The biggest issue I have with them as a class of people is that they have no fuckin’ vision. They cannot see—without significant handholding—the value in or the strategy to do something that they haven’t done before. They see their little part of our projects and cannot see how it ends to coalesce into a cohesive whole. They are also not comfortable moving forward unless they have all of the information they feel they need from the outset, rather than making good assumptions and revisiting those assumptions later if necessary.

    There are a lot of designers who suck at actualizing, who have imagination and vision but insufficient skills to make things real, but there are also too many engineers who have the exact opposite problem, who don’t understand that every single project is doing something that, in some way, is something we’ve never done before. When I get to select my engineering teams, I look for those who have this understanding.

  283. 283.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @smintheus: I agree that is what they want — and it is pretty awful. Especially, as you say, that is the best interpretation.

  284. 284.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    @Ruckus: Well, there are interesting things going on with regard to college costs. From a professional standpoint I believe that tuition rates are ridiculous and most institutions are dumping money into the wrong things. I probably shouldn’t even get started on that rant.

    As a parent, I have been pleasantly surprised to find out that many schools don’t actually end up charging their published rate. They determine what the family contribution should be based on income and assets, and a lot of families end up receiving aid in the thousands of dollars. Mind you, that might just be because we are looking at schools with outsized endowments. But the philosophy seems to be, if you can get in, we will make it affordable for you. We met a lot of Ivy students who are 1st-gen or come from Pell-eligible families–20% of Harvard’s last incoming class, they said. And at Princeton, I think, you don’t pay any tuition if your family makes under 160K per year! That seems like a lot of America.

  285. 285.

    lollipopguild

    July 28, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: “If you can’t be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.”

  286. 286.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    @Mandarama:

    “a consumer of knowledge and a producer of knowledge.”

    Had this discussion with a fellow worker on Thursday. Put it in a different context but it was the same discussion. He’s young and enjoys his work and I’ve been trying to get him to learn to look at things from several directions and I think it’s helping. He’s coming along nicely, taking on more and more at work, thinking with his head before he starts moving his hands. It’s fun to see this happening.

  287. 287.

    Robert Sneddon

    July 28, 2018 at 3:21 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Basically it’s a p<0.05 joke. There's a move afoot to start rejecting papers that have results just within the p<0.05 bracket based on the belief that the data has been tortured until it confessed rather than it reporting a true result.

  288. 288.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 28, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    @Robert Sneddon: Of course, then people will just torture it until it’s at p<0.03. That which can be gamed, will. No, I don't have a solution.

  289. 289.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    @smintheus: You know, that probably is the right way to go. I have done similar in my interdisciplinary courses and I get fewer complaints about grades. Sometimes I just get so frustrated with their end-result obsession, you know? But I guess our world makes them that way.

  290. 290.

    Suzanne

    July 28, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: I often say that the reason architects lead the design team (as opposed to engineers) is because we’re the only ones who can see all of the disparate parts of the solution and stitch it together into something that doesn’t suck. I was never any great shakes in STEM, though I did very well in structures courses in graduate school, and I am fairly numerate and logical. But I never took anything past trigonometry, and one can be a licensed architect in every state with only algebra-based coursework and exam. The value that we offer is that we can design (not engineer, but DESIGN) spaces that work for people. Many engineers I work with just do my math. It is a rare engineer in those fields who contributes more than that.

    (I do all of the egress calculation and cobe compliance on my projects, but that is really a bunch of arithmetic.)

  291. 291.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    @Ruckus: He’ll always recall you giving him that kind of confidence in his own judgment–and the belief that it’s ok to reach, even if you miss.

  292. 292.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:32 pm

    @Mandarama:
    Very true.
    I’ve only met this guy a couple of times, he’s a friend of the boss, who was also at lunch so I wasn’t going to butt in with my very outdated college info. But I understand about the financial means to go, if the student is capable. And often these seem to be kids from not wealthy families, who are far more than capable, but without the financial resources to compete. If they don’t try they will never get in but that trying can be hard on the family dynamics.

  293. 293.

    smintheus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    @Mandarama: Yeah, it grinds you down dealing with students who are only interested in grades and expect to be able to do the minimum and get the best grades. For years I’ve taught Roman history using a delightfully bizarre ancient novel (The Golden Ass); every class at least a quarter of the papers turned in refer to no more than the first 25 pages of the novel. I warn them not to pull that; they do it anyway.

  294. 294.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    @Mandarama: @Ruckus:

    many schools don’t actually end up charging their published rate

    I could say a lot about tuition, but Mandarama is right — almost no one — not even Chinese students these days — pay the full tuition price. There is something every school has called “the discount rate.” That is the average amount less than the published tuition paid by students. So, at my University, the discount rate is about 30%. At some schools, it is as high as 60 or 70%. The schools that have such high discount rates fall into two categories — near failing schools that need to fill their classes, and the very well-endowed schools that let a lot of people go for free.

    Ruckus, your friend should not fear the published tuition rates….

  295. 295.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    @Mandarama:

    But I guess our world makes them that way.

    A lot of parts of our world do. Everything is about results, almost nothing is about the road to get there. And the road is the best part.
    Did we win our game? Not did we play better as a team than ever before.
    Is my bank account bigger? Not is my bank account sufficient.
    ……..

  296. 296.

    OldDave

    July 28, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    The dude who invented the MBA will spend eternity in hell next to the guy who invented the leaf blower.

    Oh Hell Yes (and I”m sure others have beat me to this. I still wanted to give this a big thumbs up.)

  297. 297.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @Mandarama: @Ruckus: “when the student is ready, the teacher financial aid appears”

  298. 298.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    @OldDave: I am here to serve

  299. 299.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:43 pm

    @Immanentize:
    I understand but he doesn’t. The quoted price is the one he has to meet.
    A side note. I’ve only met him a couple of times, he’s good friends with my boss. This was at lunch with my boss and a couple of coworkers and this guy and his brother, who work together. We chatted a bit but the dynamic just wasn’t there to discuss this in detail at a work lunch. Plus I was having this side discussion about well rounded thinking with the coworker I talked about above. A good day, but one has to pick their moments.

  300. 300.

    Robert Sneddon

    July 28, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: p<0.03 is a lot harder to game by throwing every stat test at the data and seeing what sticks than p<0.05 and if you've got below p<0.05 by honest means then it's a win of a sort.

  301. 301.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Is this your new side, here to serve?

  302. 302.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    @smintheus: You are teaching…The Golden Ass…and the kids don’t make it past the first 25 pages? Jesus Chicken-Fried Christ, I remember staying up all night to read it! Is modern-day smut just that much more ubiquitous or ingenious than old Apuleius?? I can scarcely believe it!

  303. 303.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    @Ruckus: been working at Chik-Fil-A on weekends; trying to follow the direction from corporate.

  304. 304.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I suppose even Lysistrata is G-rated in a world where kids have access to the internet

  305. 305.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 28, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Robert Sneddon: sure, just saying that a different arbitrary cutoff is still an arbitrary cutoff.

  306. 306.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Ruckus: Law is a service industry….

  307. 307.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: @Robert Sneddon: nerd fight!!!

  308. 308.

    Immanentize

    July 28, 2018 at 3:57 pm

    @Robert Sneddon:
    I just wanted to say thank you for your Edinburgh advice. We had a fabulous time — great weather you have there in Scotland (winks)

    ETA I mean that literally in this case, we had a whole week of fabulous sun. no rain and cool nights.

  309. 309.

    smintheus

    July 28, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I find it a continual source of mystery. It’s not a novel I enjoy putting down. But I have lots of students (sitting in the back usually) looking blank and drooling during class discussions.

  310. 310.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    @smintheus: Good God, I would think that all you’d have to do is tell them, “uh, just skip over the bestiality parts” to have them tearing thru’ it!//

  311. 311.

    OldDave

    July 28, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    been working at Chik-Fil-A on weekends

    Saturday, you mean. The Orthodox Baptists at Chick-Fil-A are closed on Sunday.

  312. 312.

    Fair Economist

    July 28, 2018 at 4:10 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: It takes 67% more torture to get to p=.03 than to .05. It moves things in the right direction. At p=.01 it takes 5 times as much torture and things improve substantially.

  313. 313.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 4:12 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Seconded! This would be like teaching Chaucer with The Miller’s Tale and having them complain it is stuffy.

    @Steve in the ATL: I sometimes teach Lysistrata and they are pretty damn shocked by it, esp. if I point them towards the Beardsley illustrations. The best part? They are prim because the texts are SO OLD and they “can’t believe people way back then thought like that.” They wouldn’t be bothered by the same kind of humor in a contemporary text. So that always leads to fun discussions of our concept of “high art” and “classic.”

  314. 314.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 28, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    @Mandarama: as I understand history, people didn’t start having sexual relations until the 1960’s

  315. 315.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    @Immanentize:
    You haven’t met Steve in the ATL I take it………..

  316. 316.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:
    A lot of people alive today didn’t. Probably most.

  317. 317.

    lollipopguild

    July 28, 2018 at 4:28 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Certain conservatives will Tell you that before the 1960’s nobody, I mean Nobody had sex at all anywhere at any time. Where everybody who was on the planet in 1960 came from is anybodies guess.

  318. 318.

    Ruckus

    July 28, 2018 at 4:31 pm

    @lollipopguild:
    I believe that a lot of those conservatives are realists, in that they don’t think anything is real unless they can see and touch it and it fits in their tiny, tiny, warped minds.

  319. 319.

    debbie

    July 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    No, not taking a shot. Bemoaning the abuse that Liberal Arts gets.

    I still remember the exact moment an MBA came in and took over the publishing house where I worked. It was the beginning of the end of the house. That’s what MBAs have done to this country.

  320. 320.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 28, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: @Fair Economist: I don’t think any of us are in disagreement.

    @Mandarama: My freshman year in college I took a course, Serious Laughter, that looked at classical humor and how it relates to modern comedy. As you may imagine we examined several Aristophanes plays.

  321. 321.

    sgrAstar

    July 28, 2018 at 4:53 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: U$C, double blech! Shame to miss CalTech, btw.

  322. 322.

    Mandarama

    July 28, 2018 at 5:15 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Now that would be a fun class, to take or to teach!

    I’m pretty sure a lot of my students believe that all reproduction was decorous and arranged in olden days, and surely NO ONE had thought of dick jokes 25 centuries ago.

  323. 323.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 5:21 pm

    @Ruckus: That’s the list price. Apparently everyone gets a discount. Except us engineers who make just a leeetle too much money. And have equity in the house and retirement savings.

  324. 324.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 5:32 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I spent a day at the Santa Fe campus in 11th grade. I remember liking it a lot. My mom was living there at the time. I ended up at Columbia, and appreciated the core curriculum. Not comparing the two, but just the idea of going back to foundational texts of mostly, but not exclusively, western culture.
    I’d have to say I agree with Gandhi about a civilized western world… Here’s hoping we get there someday.
    I’m guessing this thread is nearly moribund, So I’ll pop in again later, upstairs. But have a cooking query for those still hanging out here.
    What’s the easiest/quickest way to roast up peppers? I bought some shishitos (sp!?) and assorted small peppers and want to get ’em done. No grill, just gas stove/oven.
    Tanks, as my Irish co-worker like to say/write.

  325. 325.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 5:34 pm

    @Immanentize: Where do I sign up for that?

  326. 326.

    J R in WV

    July 28, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    “math is hard.”

    Yes it is. I started Calc after 15-20 years with no math… dropped it to take College Algebra, which helped a lot. Then took Calc 131, then like a dumbass took Calc 230 in summer school to a totally bored hostile professor. Spent all morning in class, rest of day in “math lab” with grad student coaching me on what the prof didn’t mention. Then finally 231 to complete calc requirement. Made a B!! 13 hours in Calc! Ouch.

    @zhena gogolia:

    Tweet could have been from anytime… still, shows what a dumass Dana is in real life.

    I only click on Twit links, not a user, no log in, same for Facebook, no account, can’t see anything usually.

  327. 327.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 28, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Well, keep up the good work!

  328. 328.

    frosty

    July 28, 2018 at 5:44 pm

    @Mandarama @Major Major Major Major: My Shakespeare prof at HMC made a point of showing us all the dirty jokes Willie tossed into his plays.

  329. 329.

    TomatoQueen

    July 28, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    @RedDirtGirl: I’m a Johnnie, Annapolis, late 70s. There was something fog-clearing about realizing that the primary texts of Western civilization could come away from their pedestals for the bright purpose of study, without textbook mediation or befuddlement. As to roasting peppers, I understand this is accomplished with a metal skewer and a low flame, and of course more courage than I possess.

  330. 330.

    RedDirtDirl

    July 28, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @TomatoQueen: Indeed.

  331. 331.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 29, 2018 at 2:30 am

    @Steve in the ATL: Probably a dead thread but…

    The challenge is that I’m currently in Thailand, and Thailand has some pretty strict drug laws. Admittedly this is for medical use, and hopefully short-term, since a day-long regiment of ice packs may have turned my into a beavericicle but does seemed to helped a lot with the swelling that’s one cause of the pain.

    Nurse today did say the clinic probably has some alternatives that I can talk about when I see them tomorrow for my check-in.

  332. 332.

    joel hanes

    July 29, 2018 at 3:10 am

    Way late to this thread, but:
    I took five years getting through engineering school because the in-major workload was so high, and I wanted to take humanities too.

    If you’re going to be anywhere in STEM, you will never regret having taken a good technical writing course.
    Best decision I ever made.

  333. 333.

    Another Scott

    July 29, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: Dead thread, but I think there’s evidence that there’s much more to it.

    Nature – Scientific Reports:

    Abstract

    “Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye” (Shakespeare, Love’s Labour’s Lost), but the bodily features governing this critical biological choice are still debated. Eye movement studies have demonstrated that males sample coarse body regions expanding from the face, the breasts and the midriff, while making female attractiveness judgements with natural vision. However, the visual system ubiquitously extracts diagnostic extra-foveal information in natural conditions, thus the visual information actually used by men is still unknown. We thus used a parametric gaze-contingent design while males rated attractiveness of female front- and back-view bodies. Males used extra-foveal information when available. Critically, when bodily features were only visible through restricted apertures, fixations strongly shifted to the hips, to potentially extract hip-width and curvature, then the breast and face. Our hierarchical mapping suggests that the visual system primary uses hip information to compute the waist-to-hip ratio and the body mass index, the crucial factors in determining sexual attractiveness and mate selection.

    Note the caveats in the text, but male brains (in this study) are (generally) wired to evaluate curves and ratios and make attractiveness judgements based on that. Breasts (generally) have the smallest radius curves of the major female body features. Coupled with the (nearly) universal human tendency to judge symmetry to be more attractive than not (pairs (breasts, ears) are more pleasing than singletons (noses)), it’s not hard to see why males can’t help but pay attention to female breasts.

    tl;dr – a lot of it is biology!

    HTH a little.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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