The first time I ever heard about his QAnon bullshit was in connection to Roseanne Barr, before she got herself fired for tweeting racist garbage. She made a vague reference to Trump saving thousands of children from sex slavery. In response to a collective WTF, folks did some digging, and it was revealed Barr buys into this wackadoodle conspiracy theory.
QAnon got more attention after people holding Q signs and wearing Q t-shirts showed up at Trump’s hate rally in Tampa. Here’s an excerpt of a piece on the conspiracy theory published in The Post yesterday:
QAnon adherents encourage those seeking the truth to “follow the White Rabbit,” but it’s hard to hop down this hole without getting totally lost in their horrorland. The simplest description of the plot line goes something like this: President Trump isn’t under investigation; he is only pretending to be, as part of a countercoup to restore power to the people after more than a century of governmental control by a globalist cabal. Also, there are pedophiles.
A figure named “Q,” who supposedly possesses Q-level security clearance, disperses “crumbs” that “bakers” bring together to create a “dough” of synthesized information. (This is not how baking works, but that seems the least of our worries.) Because Q is the 17th letter in the alphabet and 17 is also a number Trump has said a few times, among other clearly-not-coincidences, he is the real deal, not an Internet troll engaged in an elaborate example of live-action role-play…
Now that it’s clear that what starts on the fringe doesn’t stay there, it is a real concern. QAnon’s lurch from online to off hasn’t manifested only in T-shirted ralliers wielding weird signs. Last week, a “baker” appeared outside Michael Avenatti’s office because Q sent him there. Others have started searching for child sex camps in the desert outside Tucson. A man in an armored truck blocked a bridge near the Hoover Dam demanding the release of a report that Q claimed the government was withholding. He had two guns.
In the U.S., it has become normal for stupid, unbalanced people to be found wandering around with weapons, so it’s tempting to write these unhinged believers off as insignificant. I have no idea how many of them there are — QAnon could be just a handful of idiots who are being manipulated by a teenager in Boise or a professional troll in Moscow.
But because the man in the Oval Office (or at his self-branded golf course in New Jersey since it’s Friday) is a raving nutjob who is a sucker for any story that glorifies himself and denigrates his enemies, maybe this lunatic movement does bear watching. Every cult needs a mythology, after all. What do y’all think?
Bobby Thomson
This is an insult to Desmond Llewellyn.
Adam L Silverman
ruemara
This plays on the desire for people to feel smarter than they know they are, the intense paranoia of white nationalists, failure to provide mental healthcare & the way how journalism has been replaced by infotainment. We’re going to keep having to deal with these lunatics for a long time and yes, they will be more & more violent. They’re literally too invested to give up believing in this shit unless & until they suffer severe consequences.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Of course this means the communications won’t be privileged. But no matter.
WaterGirl
Didn’t someone on BJ say yesterday that this group is linked to the Russian interference in elections?
Major Major Major Major
Sweet mother of god. I’d been successfully only seeing references to this in passing until right now—I knew it was a completely insane conspiracy theory but wow, that’s completely insane.
As a human living in the world, I continue to be surprised by the internet’s ability to reify; but then again as a reader of science fiction it was all easily predicable.
John PM
The sequel to “V for Vendetta”… “Q for Questionable (Grip on Reality)”. Starring James Woods and Dennis Miller.
germy
Elected officials encourage them.
eclare
Happy Friday from Memphis/Shelby County TN! We had elections yesterday, and it was a blue tsunami. A D even won county sheriff, no David Clarkes here. And it’s official, Bredesen vs Marsha Marsha Marsha for senate.
boatboy_srq
Clearly they haven’t been taking the pills that Mother gives you.
/Jefferson-Airplane
PS: do you suppose this has any coincidental/peripheral connection to the recent discovery of Grace Slick’s isolated vocal recording for that piece, do you?
germy
@eclare: good news.
smintheus
@ruemara: Yes. Also the rise of mass martyrdom (these people relish the idea that they’re being unfairly tarnished as kooks, when in their view they’re just super informed).
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
What do I think? Shit, I don’t know what to think about this newest shit beyond that it’s going to end badly for somebody, most likely some hapless, random nobody who hasn’t done anything at all. Somebody is going to get killed here sooner or later, and it’s going to be the president who is to blame. He’s the one stoking this shit. Whoever or whatever Q is, it’s only somebody hopping onto Deadbeat Donnie’s parade of horrors.
This isn’t to let Republicans on the whole off the hook. As I’ve said before, this was inevitable. Not this specific this, the orange, Trump-shaped this, but some this like this. This was inevitable. You just can’t wind people up forever, getting ignorant, bigoted, narrow minded assholes all riled up about how the gays and the Blacks and the illegals are ruining their lives with ever more outlandish conspiracy theories, and then claim to be shocked when these ignorant, bigoted, narrow minded assholes begin taking things into their own hands and nominating shitbags like the Deadbeat. They knew, or should have, what they were playing with. They’re all to blame, all the way back to Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. These people used unstable horror-show people to climb to power, and now the horror shows are running the show.
I guess I’m glad some of them are speaking out against this shit now; at a time like this, my feeling is that we should take help from wherever we can get it. And maybe some of them really have had the scales fall from their eyes. Maybe some of them have woken up to what they’ve done and have changed. But either way, once this is over, they’re going to have a lot to answer for.
Betty Cracker
@germy: Jason Kander is a sharp guy. I believe he’s running for mayor of Kansas City? I’d love to see him on the national stage at some point. It’s a howling shame he didn’t unseat Blunt in 2016.
Major Major Major Major
@eclare: awesome!
clay
Do these people imagine that if Trump really had rescued hundreds of children from sex slavery, that he’d actually keep it secret? That’s the most unbelievable part for me — this guy brags about things he hasn’t actually done; there’s no way he would stay mum about this.
boatboy_srq
Looking at some of the photos, it’s pretty easy to guess that these volk aren’t persuaded that their frequent hospital visits weren’t for multiple sequential problem pregnancies and that their 15 kids are figments of their colorectal-surgery-inspired imaginations.
MattF
If someone insists on wandering in the desert around Tucson in the middle of the summer looking for nests of pedophiles… who am I to disagree?
I’m tempted now to say ‘But, seriously…’ and try to write something semi-coherent about projection. But, no.
GxB
This sounds more and more like Peoples Temple/Branch Davidians horseshit with every passing day. I suppose it will end just as badly.
boatboy_srq
@John PM: A tragicomedy?
NotMax
Do they know that qanon is a variant spelling of qanun, a Middle Eastern musical instrument used by (*gasp*) scary mooslims?
;)
Elizabelle
They’re really ugly, stupid people. Maybe not every single day of their lives, but enough.
There is a limited number of them. We need to find the smart voters and turn them out for the midterms. Period. Everything else is just noise.
Don’t give these folks an oversized role, or judge them to be stronger than they are. Now: go write a postcard to a voter, or do something positive. We cannot control that these folks exist. We’re not responsible for thunderstorms either.
Go hug a pet.
boatboy_srq
@MattF: I read that and all I could hear was Annie Lennox:
Sweet Dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
They search the desert for the pedophiles….
[well] Everybody’s looking for something!
Nicole
Ugh. The only thing worse than dumb is dumb and angry.
schrodingers_cat
I plan to ignore this conspiracy like I have been doing since I have found about its sorry existence, just like you did after the Roseanne tweets.
dexwood
Completely nuts half-baked “bakers” out in public ranting and raving in support of Traitor Trump. What could go wrong? Damn, the ankle-deep end of the gene pool is getting pretty fucking crowded.
mad citizen
@clay: This is a great point. I’m reminded that the Trump White House can barely (and pretty much didn’t the first year) run the Easter Egg Hunt properly, so for someone to think he and his team could mastermind rescuing children from slavery…
Major X 4 taught me a new word today: “reify” Thank you.
I was explaining “Florida Man” and “Florida Woman” to my wife the other night. Looking at the picture reminded me of that somehow–they were all at the rally in Tampa.
The Moar You Know
Remember when the internet was going to be the intellectual savior of mankind, ushering in a whole new era of available knowledge and democracy for all?
Talk about overpromising and underdelivering.
JPL
@NotMax: You broke the code!
boatboy_srq
@clay: He would if he sent the to work in Ivanka’s now-defunct clothing company’s sweatshops…
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not sure this guy can spell privileged.
Sister Golden Bear
@GxB: Would it be wrong to place CL ads before the rallies offering discount coupons for Kool-Aid?
Asking for a friend….
boatboy_srq
@mad citizen: Conservatist ineptitude is merely proof of their subtle management skill. Just as libprog law-abiding decency is proof of their nefarious skulkduggery.
/wingnut
? Martin
Anyone remember Todd Kincannon? He was the head of the SC GOP and said some racist shit about Trayvon Martin, and generally caused grief for the GOP down there. Well, turns out he’s Jesus Christ and he sacrificed his mothers dog.
Clearly he’s mentally ill, but it’s notable how difficult it is to distinguish between someone who is mentally ill and someone who has a leadership position in the GOP. It almost seems like a prerequisite for the job at this point.
The Atlantic has an interesting piece about how historians are failing us by allowing false or ambiguous narratives to persist for generations (war of northern aggression, anyone?)
schrodingers_cat
@Sister Golden Bear: I know you are kidding but people have found CL listings in the towns where the rallies take place. He is paying people to come to the rallies.
Steeplejack (phone)
@WaterGirl:
A couple of people suggested that in a “wouldn’t be surprised,” unsourced Internet bullshit kind of way.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: Hello! What I actually said was I’m inclined to agree with The Jester’s estimate (below). I think it is likely one of two things: 1) A Russian op or 2) Someone looking to troll 4chan, etc, which is now being assisted by the Russians for their own purposes.
boatboy_srq
@Adam L Silverman: Inthink he wants his defense taken outside the Deep State before it’s damaged.
You know, pre-Villaged.
mad citizen
While we’re on a conspiracy theory thread, my sister-in-law was over a few weeks ago. She’s always good for something wacky. We try not to talk politics and family events. Anyway, the new one was that Chinese ships were coming to Lake Michigan and filling up with freshwater for $1 per ship, and taking it back to China. I googled the other night to try to find this one–couldn’t find the specific mention, but it seems at times Canada has tried to sell Great Lakes water to China, or at least floated the idea, which was quicking shot down in the US, etc.
We had just been to Chicago and were talking about being in the lake, so that triggered my sister-in-law’s story. It could be years old. I’m sure these people never forget a good conspiracy theory.
Adam L Silverman
@boatboy_srq: No, but a link to that recording would be nice.
eric
@Adam L Silverman: yes he can :”white”
schrodingers_cat
QA is the ultimate example of privilege, where you can spend time worrying about ridiculous conspiracy theories instead of real life challenges.
Platonailedit
Amszing how the rw’ers are always able to divert the left with their crazy shit while their overlords do real damages in the background.
boatboy_srq
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry; traveling, and participating in the discussion by mobile. I’ll send it when I get home. Her voice on the tape is amazing: so much power.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: I still don’t see why he brackets that tweet with (non-well-formed) XML tags.
@mad citizen: It’s a great word! Glad I could spread it!
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Happy birthday, Omnes!
mad citizen
So this far down the road from 2016, we’re at a place where you see “Trump Jr. says the Democratic platform is similar to the Nazis” headline on cnn.com, and you think, that sounds about right, and have no desire/reason to click through.
boatboy_srq
@mad citizen: Are we related? Your SIL sounds suspiciously like my sister.
Gex
@? Martin: Ah yes. Savior complex as only a Republican would do it. Pretty sure Jesus didn’t run around sacrificing *others*. He’s rather famous for being the one sacrificed.
Major Major Major Major
@mad citizen: wow that’s crazy!
Out here in the Bay Area the craziest conspiracy theories I hear are about Democrats, from lefties though. Rigged primaries for Hillary 2020, Obama didn’t execute the bankers because of Zionism, etc.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Adam L Silverman: I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a Russian op. It has a distinct “Jade Helm” flavor of crazy to it, which was a Russian op.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: The Atlantic doesn’t seem to understand peer review and how academic presses, tenure and promotion committees, or anything else works in the lives of professional historians.
evodevo
@smintheus: Yes. This also plays into the ongoing persecution complex that evangelicals exhibit at every opportunity. “Us Xtians have ALWAYS been the persecuted minority, especially nowadays, with all that Wall of Separation propaganda, and our loss of the power to dictate morality via govt. fiat!!!” The two sets quite often intersect.
Mandalay
@Adam L Silverman: https://youtu.be/dyMtIwobqbI?list=PLkMNdMMv-trOREDvyKh-1TrMVbPHbaJtt
MattF
@boatboy_srq: Here’s the Gillian Welch/David Rawlings version
Adam L Silverman
@eric: I’m not sure he can spell that either.
bluehill
Been reading a book called Sapiens by Yuval Harari. It’s about the evolution of our species. Really interesting. One thing he says that distinguished sapiens from other human species way back in time was the ability to communicate and believe in things that don’t exist such as tribal spirits, nations, limited liability companies, human rights etc. He says that this ability to believe in something intangible alllowed sapiens to organize into much larger groups and make sacrifices for their group without immediate benefit.
Anyways it seems like one gating factor has been communication technology in terms of the getting the message out. As technology has advanced, it’s made it easier to spread stories and in turn organize groups of people. Enter the internet and social media and now it’s much easier to for groups like QAnon, tea party, BLM to develop and quickly gain prominence.
clay
@Adam L Silverman: I dunno… wouldn’t a Russian troll try to be somewhat plausible? This seems like homegrown craziness to me.
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: It took longer than six months to identify Jade Helm conspiracy as being promoted by Russia.
boatboy_srq
@mad citizen: So, Ignorance is Strength is real, and War Is Peace is visible from Panmunjom. How soon do we get Freedom is Slavery?
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t either. Feel free to email him and ask him about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Backatcha!
JPL
@? Martin: I read the police report at TPM earlier and it’s horrifying. He has been struggling for a few years, and it’s unfortunate that it escalated to the point where he stabbed a dog to death. In good news at least god didn’t tell him to sacrifice children.
Major Major Major Major
@bluehill: I hear very good things about this book.
@Adam L Silverman: I mean he should know better. We have standards for a reason!
ruemara
@MattF: Convince them water is a liberal pedo conspiracy.
? Martin
@The Moar You Know: Well, it’s not that the internet made us dumber, it’s that it’s allowed all the dumb people to self-organize. We’ve put the Dunning-Krueger coalition and the suicide death cult coalition into the same 4chan space, which apparently now is moderated by the GRU. What could go wrong?
LAO
@Adam L Silverman: I saw this earlier and immediately felt for his poor lawyer.
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: Thanks!
Doug R
Facebook is down! Hooray!
boatboy_srq
@Mandalay: @MattF: I and my CDMA-in-GSM-world cellphone thank you.
Cacti
Apart from the fantastic nonsense, these people believe dough is made by piecing crumbs together?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The bit that your missed Betty on “Q” is it was started as some kind of role playing game or mem onn 4/chan.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/qanons-calm-before-the-storm
MomSense
@boatboy_srq:
some of them want to use you
some of them want to get used by you
some of them want to abuse you
some of them want to be abused
L85NJGT
The simple truth is, not all of us become the men (or women) we once hoped we might be.
A couple of nights ago, I watched a fifty something man watching FOX News – he couldn’t sit still. He wasn’t agitated, just very animated, jumping up to listen to the TV drone while his wife tried to eat. That fear consumption cycle FOX weaponized….. I’m not sure if it’s predatory of certain mental health states or creates them.
Ramiah Ariya
Looking at this from afar, I believe that a large number of Republicans will claim belief in this soon, not because they actually think it is true – but because they think saying they believe this will drive Democrats nuts. That is all that matters. The Republicans are in a simulation, where people mainly role play.
Remember the woman in the CNN interview who said 3 million illegal immigrants DID vote too? She just loved that she was saying something outrageous. That is their cue. They love Trump only because he says outrageous things. I told a friend that contrary to popular belief his base control him. He is just the 2012 Ben Carson who managed to go all the way through to the Presidency.
If a Democrat wins in 2020, these people will deny they ever supported Trump and he will go the way of George Bush.
This is why I think making Trump appear weak before his base is critical – if the Democrats respond to his statements with sternly worded diplomat-talk, he will continue to “win”.
Adam L Silverman
@clay: That’s why I wrote:
lgerard
The natiivsts are restless iindeed
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Again, feel free to contact him directly.
rikyrah
I swear, reading this shyt makes my brain hurt.
So, will you stop writing articles about how they need to be’ understood’, MSM?
Cause muthaphuckas like this?
No. They don’t need to be ‘understood.’
E
I am the mayor of a small town in a very, very red county in CA. I am getting my constituents coming to me with QAnon conspiracy theories and asking me to check them out. Many believe that the Carr Fire in Redding was actually started by Governor Brown using drones with special microwave powers. Apparently he flew them down the streets of Redding and incinerated people’s homes with the microwave drone so that he could get federal disaster aid. I am not making this up. I am hearing a lot about this. It’s terrifying.
boatboy_srq
@Adam L Silverman: I think somebody on their staff still thinks David Barton is reputable.
Humdog
@ruemara: another very insightful comment from ruemara. Thanks
rikyrah
Silverman,
I was going through old threads from yesterday and found the following comment from you.
I don’t worry about Turner, because people are collecting receipts on her everyday, all day. We’re just laying in the cut, waiting for her to make her move. You may be right. She might try to do that Jill Stein bullshyt ratphucking, but we will lay waste to her when she does. Her time of expiration is fast approaching. November 2018, if we are successful, will be a reckoning for a whole lot of folks that people say we must hold our nose to right now. Ok, we’ll hold it….for now. Past November 2018, the bill will come due, and we’re outta patience with these ratphuckers.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: If I contact a non-personal-friend scurry h4cker it will be for something other than trolling…
rikyrah
@eclare:
yeah !!
boatboy_srq
@E: Sounds like the citizenry their need the fine tuning in their anal probes adjusted.
Adam L Silverman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: No it wasn’t. That’s not what that post says at all. Here’s the relevant portion (emphasis mine):
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Well, those processes work VERY differently at the university and K-12 levels. Consider too that Loewen isn’t attacking peer reviewed work, but rather K-12 textbook selection which doesn’t go through any sort of process like that. And that’s California. We all know Texas’s history here as well.
Teachers have relatively little say in textbook selection in many parts of the country. They have little say in the overall curriculum plan and what should and should not be covered. And all of these things are corrupting influences that affect tenure at the K-12 level in negative ways, but provides no mechanism for tenure to positively feed back to make the process better. It’s busted. Tenure should give good teachers independence, and it (generally) does at the university level, but it really doesn’t at the K-12 level.
The Moar You Know
@? Martin: I read that and I’m truly sorry I did. That poor fucking dog.
Adam L Silverman
@E: If you need assistance nocking this down, give me a holler off line. I’m happy to consult with you all on debunking and the other precautions you might need to take.
p.a.
Non-related points:
1). Q-ist Darwin awards can’t come fast enough. As long as no innocents get done in too.
2). Yesterday WH announced/accepted that Russia seeks to divide us is NOT good news: that crew of fascists will just use this formulation to spin Democratic opposition/electioneering as disloyal opposition in their p.r. and in the captive (and some not-so-apparently-captive) media.
CliosFanBoy
@Adam L Silverman: James Loewen does some good work, but his idea of “historical error” often is “It does not agree with me.” He’s like Howard Zinn. On some things he’s absolutely right, on others he’s wayyyy off the best scholarship for ideological reasons.
Humdog
About two weeks ago someone placed a large envelope on my husband’s work desk containing 80+ pages (both sides of paper, too) of “facts” from QAnon and fellow travelers. (Spellcheck capitalized QAnon, that is scary it is in the dictionary!) they wrote on the front my name with a question mark. I scanned the papers and highlighted some crazy for my husband and now he is giving his few coworkers and customers who come to the store some serious side eye. They know I am into politics and thought we might be interested? Yeah, keeping such yahoos at arms length may not be far enough for safety.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Good to know. My comment focused solely on what I think she’s planning to do. Glad to read that there appears to be some planning to clip her wings. And I write all of this reluctantly as I still believe, right now, that the candidates that need to be supported are women, especially women of color whenever possible.
A Ghost To Most
@The Moar You Know: I apologise for the part I played. Never underestimate the power of greedy assholes. Remember that e-commerce was built on online pron.
oatler.
Never thought I’d say “this gives nihilism a bad name” but…
gvg
Is Q an actual classified level in the US? I thought it was British for some reason.
white rabbit used to mean either cocaine or heroin. It also is a reference to Alice in Wonderland, which is not a sane place. That is actually a kind of tell right there I think.
If anyone asks democratic candidates what they think of it, they should all answer with discussions about increasing access to mental healthcare including funding for training more doctors. Good grief what nuts.
CliosFanBoy
@gvg: it’s a compartment used by the Department of Energy for nuke stuff.
SiubhanDuinne
@Doug R:
I wondered why my profile picture suddenly disappeared!
Elizabelle
@E: My sympathies. Yegads. I guess a lot of mayors and officials are dealing with this crap.
The Monsters on Maple Street was supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a “how to.” Its final narration:
Elizabelle
@E: I know that you know that the Greeks and others were wondering about the numerous fires that sprang up so rapidly, in so many places. NY Times reported there was speculation (by some members of the public) that the Russians were behind that.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: Professional historians working as historians are overwhelmingly at universities and colleges. They live and die by peer review and tenure and promotion. As a result it can take decades for actual, documentable changes in the professional literature and the professional approach to subject matter areas to be excepted because the people running the journals, doing the peer review, and/or making the tenure and promotion decisions are protecting their own work even though they should be promoting solid work that moves our understanding forward. Once the generational changes occur, it then takes even more time for it to trickle down from the university level to both k-12 and popular understandings. In some cases it never happens because the scholars at the tip of the wave of generational change can’t get their work past the gatekeepers of peer review and tenure and promotion, so they simply move on to doing something else. Eventually others come along, often referencing and building on these earlier scholars dissertations and conference papers and the few publications they were able to get, and move their disciplines forward.
Eljai
@Adam L Silverman: That makes sense to me. I mean this conspiracy is not even very original. They just rehashed old stuff. I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned the Bilderberg Group yet.
L85NJGT
I had an acquaintance do a year of live-in elder care with a FOX News watcher – she got pretty CT nutty. Now that she has her own place with no TV or Web, she’s in a way better place.
I suspect self medication is an issue as well. Weed can make certain folks way paranoid, and there is the whole talk to your doctor about Addictiva marketplace.
lowtechcyclist
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
1) Yeppers. We now have a GOP-controlled Congress where far too many of the GOPers grew up on, and actually believe, the bullshit that the party’s been pushing for all these decades. And with Trump in the White House, the result is a horror show.
2) Anyone have any idea whether any elected GOP officials have taken a moment to denounce this Q-Anon insanity?
lamh36
Flight has landed and pretty much on time … in Fort Lauderdale.
I’m off the plane and on the shuttle for the rental car lot. Weather in FLL is hot but nice. Hopefully weather in Miami holds up as well!
#MiamiVayKay
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
@Omnes Omnibus:
What, the both of you? In one day? This is like Christmas and somethingmumblesomething all rolled into one!
Anyway, if it really is your (plural) birthday, Happy Birthday!
And if I’m missing a joke, and it’s not really, well: Happy Birthday! anyway
Amir Khalid
@gvg:
My suspicion is that the Q you’re thinking of (the character from the James Bond movies who supplies 007 with cool spy tech) is in real life an entire department at MI6.
L85NJGT
@boatboy_srq:
They’d prefer that rather than discussing rural land use, climate change and wildlands fire policy – because they’ll get answers they don’t want to hear. FAKE NEWZ!
Betty Cracker
@E: Wow, that is worrisome because it suggests this lunacy could be widespread. A couple of years ago, I would have laughed something like QAnon off, like the stupid 9/11 truther stuff. Maybe it’s dumb to worry about it now. But honestly, ever since Donald Fucking Trump became POTUS and the surreal became the new normal, I no longer feel like I know my country.
jl
I’m impressed that Lady Cracker knows that Boise ID has become a high tech mini-center that probably has plenty of disaffected teens ready to do some more Pizzagate damage. Thinking up a plot centered around a basement sex slave dungeon in a pizza joint that has no basement is the kind of fun that 4Chan goofs would be into. Of course, once it works, no reason why Russian trolls would not jump in it eagerly. So, could be both.
Major Major Major Major
@lamh36: stay safe—I hear that place is full of Florida Men!
Betty Cracker
@lamh36: [Waves southward] Have fun! Make sure that rental has top-notch A/C!
PS: People in Miami drive like meth-addicted wombats, so watch out!
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: And Tom Brady, Martin Sheen, Martha Stewart.
SFAW
@Gex:
General J.C. Christian might be able to edumacate you re: Republican Jesus.
Brickley Paiste
@Omnes Omnibus:
No. Privilege survives the presence of a third party if purpose of their presence was to further defense.
Even before this was recognized in decisions, there were easy work-arounds. Just “hire” the 3rd party as an assistant and pay them a dollar. That has the added advantage of excluding anything the third person might later say from evidence.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
Tom Brady? Hmm.
guachi
@CliosFanBoy:
I was going to say “No, Q is not a classification and I’ve never heard of it as a compartment or any kind of sub-classification thing”. I’m glad I didn’t because I did not know that about the DoE.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brickley Paiste: The third party in this case is journalist.
Cheryl Rofer
@guachi: Not a compartment, a clearance level.
A Ghost To Most
@SFAW: Kinda scotches the rest of the list.
Sister Golden Bear
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, I’d seen the reports about CL ads paying people to show up at the rallies. Hence the desire to use similar ads to self-select the cultists who will thin themselves from the herd for the good of the species.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: Nutjobs on I-5 believing crazy shit about fires and droughts in California is… not exactly new. Fortunately?
rikyrah
@lamh36:
Have a fantastic trip, lamh :)
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I’m extremely familiar with the process, working at a university and having been on commissions to shape both statewide university level curriculum and K-12 curriculum.
What I’m saying is that at the K-12 level, scholarship is not what drives textbook development. You see errors in textbooks around things that were agreed upon by the time of Leibniz and Newton. There are uncontroversial (in the academic space) falsehoods in textbooks, not because of some kind of pedagogical impedance, but because of political and economic distortions. History textbooks are bad because that’s what textbook commissions want, not because historians are bad at what they do. Science textbooks did not include ‘intelligent design’ because of any – as is zero – lingering doubt that it might be a correct theory. It was included because of douchenozzles like Kris Kobach. Promoting revisionist history is key to firming up political narratives. If discriminating against minorities is a policy you want to maintain, then providing a historical context that such discrimination was in everyones best interest is key to doing so, which is why you get teachers asking students to give a balanced view of slavery.
Find me a peer reviewed article from the last 50 years that supports the need for a balanced view. There aren’t any. This isn’t about tenure and collective acceptance, this is about politics.
Adam L Silverman
@gvg: Department of Energy’s equivalent to Top Secret (ETA) Sensitive Compartment Information (TS-SCI) is called Q. The thing is almost none of the various departments and agencies like the others’ clearances. Not how they’re granted, nor managed. So, for instance, if you retire from the US military and you take a civilian job at the CIA, the agency will redo your clearance rather than just accept the one from DOD. In other cases, I’ve seen Interagency working groups held up because the Special Security Officer at the hosting organization won’t grant access to all the attendees because he or she doesn’t believe their clearance is really equivalent to the level the meeting is being held at because of the agency that awarded it.
dmsilev
Via TPM, your feel-good story of the day:
LAO
@Brickley Paiste: In my opinion, the situation described in comment 2 — that communications between the defendant and his own lawyer be recorded and released to the public — pretty much waives any privilege. At least, in my neck of the woods.
LAO
@Omnes Omnibus: And the defendant wants the conversations made public! I think you right,
Happy birthday!
Adam L Silverman
@Eljai: Give them time.
mr gravity
I used to be afraid of artificial intelligence. Before I became acquainted with natural ignorance.
LAO
@SiubhanDuinne: Happy Birthday to you, as well!
guachi
My favorite clearances would either be British clearance levels or any clearance/compartment for the US that no longer exists. Just because it makes everything seem so much for secret and spylike.
CliosFanBoy
@Cheryl Rofer: oops, sorry. you and Adam are right.
mad citizen
@boatboy_srq: She was always a firm believer in the contrails chemicals from the sky theory, though I think my wife told me her sister no longer believed that one.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: I think we’re discussing two different things. So I’m just going to back out of this conversation.
PJ
I’ve encountered a prevalence for crazy conspiracy theories in Turkey, Bosnia, and generally in Eastern Europe, usually, but not always, among people who see themselves as outside of whatever financial success means in their country. Embracing these conspiracies was a way of making sense out of whatever had happened in their lifetimes and in their personal lives (it was a cabal of evil geniuses!) that eliminated the randomness and, often, cruelty, viciousness, ignorance, and stupidity of other individuals acting on their perceived self-interest, and at the same time absolved them of any responsibility for their own personal fate, since the powers that be had handled the levers to make it just so. Of course, there are conspiracies (viz, Trump and his fellow travelers), and there are powers that be that want to increase their power (Mercers, Kochs, etc.), but the ones rooted in unreality are embraced because they comfort the world-view and sense of self of the believer, and ironically gives them a feeling of power, since they have peered beyond the veil and sussed it out, unlike the rest of us sheeple. It also gives them a chance to be a hero, like the guy who shot up the pizza place in DC.
Bobby Thomson
@germy: Kris is unctuous, that’s for sure.
rikyrah
@dmsilev:
it’s the free market, muthaphuckas.
suck it up!
dmsilev
Apparently I’ve been thinking too much about radio modulation schemes over the past few days; I initially parsed this in the context of quadrature components and was very confused. Oh, weekend, come to me soon.
LAO
According to the Washington Post’s coverage of the Manafort trial, offered without commentary:
A Ghost To Most
@dmsilev:
Will the Nuge kill himself?
Sister Golden Bear
@L85NJGT: One of my major frustrations with the hotel here in Thailand is that the only U.S. news channel is…. Faux News.
Thankfully, there’s an NHK English language channel, although it gets frightfully repetitive — think of the original CNN Headline News Channel, where they’d cycle through essentially the same news every half-hour. OTOH, at least NHK intersperses them with short documentaries (usually 15 minutes to up to an hour in length). Learning far more about Japan, it’s geography and it’s culture than about Thailand on this trip.
Although watching the language channels can be fun. DW is very German, and there’s some sort of French channel that is tres Francais.
Then there’s just weird stuff, like an Animal Planet-style channel in which the shows appear to be in whatever language was used by whatever channel created them (instead of being dubbed into Thai like most of the other channels).
But I did just get to see “Coco” in Thai this afternoon, as well as “Broadchurch,” also in Thai, the other night.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: This goes to my longstanding argument, that I’ve made in a number of comments here over the years, that NRA’s membership numbers, which they claim is the source of their funding, is BS. Specifically, that a significant plurality, if not an outright significant majority, of their self announced 4 million plus lifetime members are actually dead. As in they were life time members before they died of the various conditions related to old age. So those members exist on spreadsheets, but no longer exist in the real world. And given the comments at the various firearms sites, disaffection with the NRA and how they do business, seems to have lead to people switching their memberships to the 2nd Amendment Foundation or Gun Owners of American or even NAGR.
Adam L Silverman
@CliosFanBoy:
This should be everyone’s mantra.
Elizabelle
@? Martin: James Loewen (subject of The Atlantic article) has a wonderful homepage.
He’s got some essays on teaching K-12 history, and lots of other stuff. Good for a cruise through sane news and actual history (not just conventional wisdom).
Linky: it’s http://sundown.tougaloo.edu
Adam L Silverman
@PJ: Very prevalent in the Middle East as well. Especially among the decision makers in elected and appointed positions.
jacy
Someone (maybe it was Stephen King) said that the crazies used to just mimeo their insane screeds in a basement somewhere and then stumble around on street corners attempting to shove them into the hands of passersby, and since they were isolated — and obviously insane — they never got any traction. But with the advent of the internet, the crazies can now find each other and reinforce each other, which magnifies and distills the crazy. So there may not be a lot of them, but they’re exponentially more dangerous now.
chopper
@? Martin:
exactly. when it comes to K-12 textbooks, it isn’t a matter of changes in scholarship at higher levels ‘trickling down’ into the lower level texts over time, it’s a matter of existing material being shaped and cut up and changed by non-experts for partisan purposes.
jacy
@Betty Cracker:
I second your thoughts on Kander. He’s sharp and telegenic and relentless — to me he looks like one of the faces of the future of the Democratic party. I hope he goes places. Lots of places.
Yutsano
@Adam L Silverman: I’m a bit more cynical. I’m interpreting this as more of a “Send us money now rubes!” since the Russian pipeline is probably cut off. It doesn’t negate your point (my grandfather is one of those basically inactive members) but I’m not cutting them slack for grifting either.
CliosFanBoy
aren’t those other groups even more extreme??
L85NJGT
@Adam L Silverman:
Individual ownership is declining, and a weapon will function for a long time. The industry is exploiting bubble economics – you see this a lot in collector markets.
Ruckus
@evodevo:
They always have to feel persecuted, that is why they are the “chosen ones,” a common theme among cons, make the dupes feel special in some way. And as chistians were the persecuted, what better way to con them than a “special” religion?
JPL
@LAO: Whatever happened to ignorance is no excuse? Did I dream that up?
LAO
@JPL: No.
ETA: You didn’t dream it up.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: @SiubhanDuinne: happy birthday Subaru AND Omnes!
@jacy: ‘course the flip side is that actually-persecuted minorities can find each other and commune a lot easier too…
Felony Govt
@Sister Golden Bear: As a fellow Californian who’s always too late for the morning thread, I wanted to wish you warm healing thoughts and the very, very best in your recovery!
Major Major Major Major
@Sister Golden Bear: @Felony Govt: ah, likewise! I saw you said the next part is rough, but you can do it!!
Adam L Silverman
@CliosFanBoy: GOA is. NAGR is just a pure grift. SAF or 2AF, depending on whose doing the abbreviating, is the group that is actually doing the 2nd Amendment litigation. They did Heller and MacDonald, despite the NRA trying to 1) order them not to and then, when that failed, 2) ratfucking their case. Once Heller and MacDonald were won by SAF the NRA jumped in and declared victory and tried to take all the glory.
Adam L Silverman
@L85NJGT: Yep.
ruemara
@A Ghost To Most: Stop trying to make me happy.
Gex
@LAO: Ah what a world we live in now. Evidence of a crime should be interpreted as evidence that there was no crime. Sort of the inverse of the conspiracy theory minded folks’ insistence that lack of evidence is evidence that something happened.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Adam L Silverman: Isn’t that the basic problem? We need popular histories with an academic base. There’s no recent popular accounting of the Civil War or of Reconstruction. So many academic historians focus on the small issues (not that I blame them, you need the small focus to support a larger focus, not to mention your degree, a job, etc.). James McPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom is THIRTY YEARS OLD this year.
Cheryl from Maryland
@MattF: That is the best version. I bought software JUST to convert the youtube version into a MP3. At a Gillian Welch/David Rawlings concert last year, my spouse shut me up as I was calling for that song to be an encore.
LAO
@Gex: I expect, it won’t work.
Joyce Harmon
What’s interesting about this QAnon stuff is that it shows how far people will go to avoid admitting that the guy they trusted is showing himself to be a blithering idiot. No, he’s just pretending to be an idiot! As part of an intricate good guy plot to take down the real villains – who are, predictably, Obama, the Clintons, and every genuinely decent public figure of the past generation.
On the plus side, though, is the thought that at least these nuts with guns won’t go after Mueller – in their mythology, he’s one of the good guys and is just pretending to investigate Trump, while actually investing Clinton, Obama, etc. (Is Rosenstein in on it, BTW? If so, does that make Jim Jordan and his crowd part of the global conspiracy?)
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl from Maryland: In academia one doesn’t get rewarded for rehashing the stuff other people have already done.
raven
@Cheryl from Maryland: The song is so badly overplayed that there is no “best” version. Try Triad
Mnemosyne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
You think the GRU isn’t hanging out on 4/chan recruiting people to do stuff like this?
Hitlesswonder
@Betty Cracker: I wish Kander had run for President in 2020…I think we’ve established that one need not have previous national political experience to win the office.
PST
@E:
I hear he used laser cats. And drones. Laser cats dangling from drones like Tom Cruise. And Tom Cruise himself.
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl from Maryland:
What about David Blight’s Race and Reunion? His iTunes U course on the Civil War was one of their most popular.
raven
It’s not Grace but Comin Back to Me is awesome
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
No, it really is Omnes’ birthday and mine. I have a strong feeling that there’s another BJ commenter who is also an August 3rd baby, but am a little wobbly on who it is.
Thanks for the good wishes. I’m older, and OO will never, ever catch me.
PST
@Cheryl from Maryland: There is a recent popular history of Reconstruction by an academic: Richard White, The Republic for Which It Stands: The United States during Reconstruction and the Gilded Age, 1865-1896 (Oxford History of the United States, 2017). That’s the same excellent series as Battle Cry of Freedom.
StringOnAStick
@Yutsano: I’d sincerely love to see the NRA go begging for funding after the malign influence they’ve been to the public discourse, and of course their being a laundromat for Russian funds. The only downside is the true believers will now join up with the really crazy gun rights organizations. Redistricting in my area led to the president of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Assoc (and owner of a gun range as his business) becoming my state representative. Less than 24 hours after the shooting at MSD in FL, this bastard introduced a bill that would allow concealed carry anywhere, everywhere and with no license required for anyone. I’ve been sending money to the D who is running against him and I should be doing more but I’ll be honest and admit that I am afraid to canvas against this level of gun nut since his followers are obviously armed and nuts.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Jay North, Edward Petherbridge, P. D. James, La Scala, and the day Columbus set sail in 1492.
SiubhanDuinne
@LAO:
Thanks!
SiubhanDuinne
@Major Major Major Major:
Thanks, Mx4! And belated congratulations on your becoming a BJFP!
wasabi gasp
This Q crap is spectacular and it’s on track to surpassing Tbogg’s Happy Gumdrop Fairy-Tale Land as the greatest ratfuck of all time.
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Perhaps. Good call.
VOR
@wasabi gasp: Q in James Bond stood for Quartermaster. Notice he is the guy distributing gadgets and equipment?
stinger
@eclare: Congrats!
Uncle Cosmo
@The Moar You Know: Gresham’s Law of the Nets: Bad content drives out good.
If someone had told me ca. 1980 that in my lifetime there’d be a source of almost anything you’d ever want to know available 24/7 for the price of a telephone connection, I’d’ve thought that I’d be in heaven by then. So it’s 2018 &, “why, this is Hell, nor am I out of it…:
Mnemosyne
Also, too, the whole QAnon thing is reminding me strongly of the Holocaust denier who tried to kidnap Elie Wiesel and force Wiesel to confess he’d lied about his experiences.
There were hundreds of people commenting on the Holocaust denier website the guy frequented, but he was the only one who was crazy enough to take action.
But with our heavily armed populace, it only takes one to get people killed.
BruceFromOhio
@dmsilev: Every sane gun-owner with whom I am acquainted refuses to send them money.
Brendan in NC
The first thing I thought of when I heard of this was the Q from Star Trek, John de Lancie
Tommy T
I’ve been covering the “Q” thing over at Free Republic since it bubbled up out of the ooze.
Half of even the fringe-right Free Republic membership (my blogging beat) say this is garbage gibberish.
When you’re too crazy for Freepers, you’re pretty much too crazy.
It HAS provided me with quite a bit of comedic fodder over at First Draft blog, of course.
Like I said there this Monday:
“You know, if “Q” didn’t already exist, I’d have to invent him.”
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Seconded on that request.
@Omnes Omnibus: Seconded on the happy birthday, too!
Miss Bianca
@Mandalay: Thanks!
cliosfanboy
@PST: the Oxford series may be the best series on us history ever.
cliosfanboy
@StringOnAStick: every time I go past nra hqs on I 66 I flip them off. I suspect I’m not the only one
Robert Sneddon
@Mnemosyne:
Knowing 4/chan it’s more likely they’re recruiting the GRU/KGB to work for THEM.
As for gullibility there are tens of millions of otherwise sensible Americans who truly honestly believe there is a Great Invisible Sky Fairy who watches their every living moment and can be persuaded to intervene when the Universe deals them a hand full of shit. Believing Trump is secretly a Schmott Guy is no great leap of the imagination for such folks.
J R in WV
@ruemara:
Then set them on fire?… too much? or just right~!
Mnemosyne
@Robert Sneddon:
Nah. 4/Chan are not nearly as smart as they think they are, and the GRU has been doing this kind of shit for decades longer.
Remember, the people most likely to get conned are the ones who think they’re smarter than the con man.
Mike S
@mad citizen: Late to the thread but your Sister-in-Law may be fretting about this old (35 years!) complaint about Exxon tankers taking fresh water from the Hudson River.
Thoughtful David
@cliosfanboy:
You aren’t. I’m careful, though, so other drivers don’t think it’s aimed at them.
J R in WV
@BruceFromOhio:
I have 2 pistols, a rifle and a shotgun that are safe to shoot and two elderly pistols that were my great-uncle’s which are not safe to fire. I’m also a member of the ACLU and of the SPLC, Emily’s List and Planned Parenthood.
My RWNJ brother in TX is a life member of the NRA, but that doesn’t make the NRA any more cash flow, thankfully.
JAFD
@mad citizen: This is an … interesting… addition to the Crazy Fun Things To Do With Boats list.
Back in the ’50’s ’twere proposals to send a couple of deep-sea salvage tugs to the Antarctic Circle, latch on to a humungus iceberg, tow it to Santa Catalina and pipe the meltwater into the LA system. In the ’70’s entrepreneurs tried to get the Saudis to purchase the sludge from the NYC sewage treatment plants, use that to irrigate and fertilize their deserts.
For the Chinese to purchase Great Lakes water… The size of tankers that can get thru the St Lawrence Seaway is limited. Methinks – YMMV – that cheapest option is to sail big boat to mouth of Amazon, lay to just in international waters and pump full of fresh water there.
Apologies for diversion. Is raining cats dogs chickens & baby armadillos in new jersey this afternoon
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Are you insinuating that you are sane? You comment here.
JAFD
@Adam L Silverman: Oneovdezedaze I want to do a ‘compare and contrast essay’ on Macpherson’s _Battle Cry…_, Catton’s one-volume, and Fletcher Pratt’s _Ordeal by Fire_. Any other single-volume popular histories of the Civil War era you’d include ?
The phenomenon of blogs as quasi-academic independent publications – Eric Lund’s benchgrass.blogspot.com for one – thoughts thereon ?
r€nato
and this illustrates perfectly and in real time how religious myths are created. Someone comes up with convincing bullshit, enough people believe it, and it becomes accepted as Truth.
How we get through the rest of this century without annihilating ourselves with our atomic weapons over something really, really fucking stupid is beyond me.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
What’s frustrating is that the Trump child detention centers appear to be where the the real pedophile crisis is. These sick people are always projecting.
Wmd
Bizarre. Q clearance is DoE equivalent of Secret. It wouldn’t have ant crumbs unrelated to nuclear weapons.