Peter Strzok was formally fired on Friday. Here’s an excerpt from The Post:
FBI agent Peter Strzok fired over anti-Trump texts
The FBI has fired agent Peter Strzok, who helped lead the bureau’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election until officials discovered he had been sending anti-Trump texts.
Aitan Goelman, Strzok’s lawyer, said FBI Deputy Director David L. Bowdich ordered the firing on Friday — even though the director of the FBI office that normally handles employee discipline had decided Strzok should face only a demotion and 60-day suspension. Goelman said the move undercuts the FBI’s repeated assurances that Strzok would be afforded the normal disciplinary process.
“This isn’t the normal process in any way more than name,” Goelman said, adding in a statement, “This decision should be deeply troubling to all Americans.”
Trump is handling the news with the circumspection and class you’d expect:
Agent Peter Strzok was just fired from the FBI – finally. The list of bad players in the FBI & DOJ gets longer & longer. Based on the fact that Strzok was in charge of the Witch Hunt, will it be dropped? It is a total Hoax. No Collusion, No Obstruction – I just fight back!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2018
Just fired Agent Strzok, formerly of the FBI, was in charge of the Crooked Hillary Clinton sham investigation. It was a total fraud on the American public and should be properly redone!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2018
So, he’s hoping to parlay the Strzok firing into a termination of an investigation into his campaign and its involvement with a hostile foreign power and a reopening of a completed investigation into a former political opponent. I assume that even the professionals who were appointed by Trump (Wray, Rosenstein, etc.) will continue to pretend their toddler boss isn’t smearing shit on the wall and allow the relevant investigation to proceed and the concluded one to remain closed.
That’s how it works when the Trump-appointed bosses of the national security agencies occasionally emerge to assure us they’re aware that Russia is engaged in information warfare with the US even though their boss and an increasing number of Congressional Republicans keep sending “Do you like me? Yes. No.” notes to Putin. It’s an awfully thin reed to hang one’s hopes on, though.
The Post article says Strzok’s termination was ordered on Friday, although the news only became public today. Maybe that explains Trump’s weird tweet on Saturday:
…..Will the FBI ever recover it’s once stellar reputation, so badly damaged by Comey, McCabe, Peter S and his lover, the lovely Lisa Page, and other top officials now dismissed or fired? So many of the great men and women of the FBI have been hurt by these clowns and losers!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 11, 2018
By the way, the language Trump uses regarding Lisa Page is beyond creepy, not to mention dangerous and hypocritical. People are supposed to be allowed to have private political opinions in this country, and it’s gross and inappropriate that an infamous serial philanderer who is known to pay off porn film actors, Playboy playmates, etc., would use his office to publicly harass a private citizen this way.
I realize the larger issue is that law enforcement officials should be able to have private opinions without threat of being purged by an unhinged narcissist in the Oval Office, Banana Republic style. But the persecution of Page is noteworthy in its own right; she hasn’t been a public employee for a while now and was not central to the investigation, but Trump continues to publicly shame her.
So, we continue the march toward nuclear-armed Banana Republic status. Just another day ending with “y.”
JPL
Yup Banana Republic .. from the same article
Mary G
I want to see all the anti-Hillary texts FBI agents sent on their official phones during the election and look forward to them being fired as well.
TenguPhule
That ended on Jan 20, 2017.
This is a Civil Cold War. And there is definitely going to be global warming before all of this is over.
Fair Economist
When we get back in power we will have to fire everybody ever involved in investigating a Clinton who expressed hostility to either. That is going to be a lot more than 5.
TenguPhule
He’s been doing this to others for awhile. The behavior has become fucking normalized by the press.
His tweets about Amazon, about basketball and football players, all of these would normally be career ending scandals in a normal timeline.
In this one, the stories don’t even last a week before they’re lost in the collective memory black hole.
D58826
@Mary G: Rudy and the NY field office leaked like a sieve with anti-Clinton stuff.
smintheus
@Mary G: Did the IG report investigate those? I don’t remember it ever being mentioned. It’s as if hostility to Clinton were considered the norm in the FBI.
TenguPhule
@Fair Economist:
So basically replace the entire department with new people?
Van Buren
@Mary G: This is the Holy Grail of IOKIYAR.
Lee
I’ve got 2 questions that will probably never be answered.
Is this administration is having any impact on how most FBI personnel have been GOP?
Is the FBI office in NYC ever going to face any consequences for interference in the election?
I’d bet large sums of money that both those answers are ‘No’.
gene108
@Mary G:
I hope, if Democrats take back Congress they demand these be turned over too. I really want those NYC FBI jerks shit-canned.
Josie
Every time I think he can do nothing to make me despise him even more, he surprises me.
TenguPhule
Is Trump an Ethereal in disguise? Does he generate some kind of psychic brainwashing field that only affects complete morons?
hueyplong
Another indictment will wipe the smirk off Trump’s face. Getting closer all the time.
Tick tock.
Amir Khalid
@Josie:
Aye, he is an endless fount of despicability. Um, who are we talking about? There are so many here to choose from.
Timurid
@TenguPhule:
Trump has John Bell Hood’s brain in a jar, and his response any time he gets backtalk from Mattis is to open the cooler and say, “I’d hate to see you go, but Johnny Reb here would make a fine replacement…”
D58826
@TenguPhule: Does Ivanka get to design the uniforms?
hueyplong
@Timurid: Mueeler as the Hammer of Nashville?
Jeffro
Scumbag is as scumbag does…or in this case, tweets.
First Dem candidate to get in front of a mic and note all the ways that Trumpov is flat-out gross and sleazy gets a head start on 2020. “Did you ever notice that when Trumpov tweets about women, it’s…it’s almost like if Jabba the Hut had a Twitter account? What a sicko.”
Steeplejack
Oh, jeez: In the last hour Trump has retweeted Frank Luntz and Michael Cohen refuting details of Omarosa’s book—and congratulated Brooks Koepka for winning the PGA Championship yesterday.
The latest from the stable genius. (You don’t have to have a Twitter account to view.)
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Sounds an awful lot like obstruction of justice to me
Mandalay
In other banana republican news, the psycho who murdered someone over a parking spot in Florida last month is going to be charged with manslaughter after the sheriff initially came up with this bullshit that even an NRA lobbyist rejected:
Steeplejack
@Mary G:
Great point! Let’s start with the New York office. That should reduce the head count by about 65%.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Lee:
Do you want the the consequences to be “legal” or “extralegal”?
Brachiator
People are saying this more and more often.
Welcome to the new normal under the Trump regime.
Another reason that the Republicans must be repudiated in the mid-term elections.
TenguPhule
@D58826:
I understand that to save money and time they’ll simply be copying the First Order’s uniforms.
The Dangerman
“In charge”? Am I missing something? Did I load decaf into the Keurig this morning? I thought Mueller was in charge?
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay: Saw that, and thank dog. I wrote a long post on this case that’s still hanging around the back room. Never got around to posting it, and now I’ll need to update it to include this development. The thing is, the shooter has a long history of road rage incidents and threats — following people, brandishing his weapon, etc. Not the kind of person who should be walking around with a Glock in the waistband of his Speedos.
Tokyokie
I’m guessing most law-enforcement officers, whether they’re the FBI, the state police, or even detective-sergeants on a municipal force, have strong opinions against the criminals they’re investigating. It goes with the territory.
Steeplejack
@Lee:
I believe there is an ongoing investigation of the New York office. It might be linked to the larger Mueller investigation, hence no news so far.
Roger Moore
@D58826:
Hugo Boss.
TenguPhule
And to cap off all of this insanity, Wapo is reporting that PIRATES are fucking back in the Caribbean due to the economic collapse and instability of Central American & South American countries.
Less Interesting times! Less Interesting times!
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: We have it now. 22 years of humid, hot, nasty wet summers in San Diego, which NEVER happened before 1995/6. People talk about “climate change”. I tell ’em “hell, it’s already changed. How much more change do you want?”
MobileForkbeard
@TenguPhule: No. This is Mattis just doing his job – privately pushing back on this awful idea while publicly supporting his boss. Mattis almost certainly does not believe this, and this is also a very face-saving lie for himself and for Trump.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker:
@Mandalay:
Good to hear. Tampa Bay newspaper won’t load for me, so taking your word, but glad this shooter will have a court date. That was murder, plain and simple, and he executed a young man in front of his family, including a toddler. No family member is ever going to get over that.
Manslaughter seems too light, but maybe it’s the most convictable. Prosecutors have had some trouble with overcharging, particularly when you’re getting Florida Man and Florida Woman on your jury.
Eljai
Wow. Thanksgiving dinner is going to be so awkward this year:
Ruckus
Will someone tell me when we’ve arrived?
I keep thinking yesterday had to be the day, but nobody says, “Today is the day!” How many shitty milestones do we have to have shit upon us before we’ve arrived? Is there a prize for lasting longer than it took other Banana Republics to finally arrive at the status they were obviously seeking?
MisterForkbeard
@The Dangerman: Strzok was the ‘agent in charge’ for two months in 2017, if I remember right. He was removed after his texts were discovered by Mueller. Strzok was also one of the more senior agents in charge of the Hillary investigation in 2016 and wrote the letter that Comey released just before the election.
Basically, Strzok’s a huge red herring for the Trump investigation and always has been.
Elizabelle
@Eljai: Wow, I am glad to see that. I watched the Strzok hearings. Goodlatte was abhorrent; awful, awful man. I am pleasantly surprised that his son is so candid with his social media.
Goodlatte is retiring this fall. Termed out on his committee chairmanship. That’s the only way you get rid of some of these fossils.
Brachiator
@Fair Economist:
You’re joking, right, or using hyperbole.
@TenguPhule:
You cannot blame the press for this. Or, you can, but it don’t matter. Trump has neutered the press, and doesn’t give a shit about their approval or disapproval. Especially when he’s got Fox News and conservative propaganda media to explain, justify and bless his actions.
Congress could try to rein in this clown, or impeach him. But the Republicans will never let that happen.
ETA: And by “impeach,” I mean “impeach, convict and remove from office.”
hueyplong
@Eljai: Pretty sure Bobby is sending his regrets re Thanksgiving.
James E Powell
@Mary G:
That will never happen. As we saw in DC yesterday, government agencies will always protect RWers.
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker: I only just learned that last year the Florida Republicans strengthened the Stand Your Ground law:
I hope reporters harass the hell out of Rick Scott for signing that into law.
Mary G
LOL. Who knows how much dirt she will end up disgorging?
Yashar says you can buy these on Amazon and indeed you can:
I think we just have to come to terms with the fact that true privacy is gone from the world.
Ruckus
@Josie:
Nothing he does surprises me. He’s been scum for his entire life, he just has a more elevated speaking platform now.
We are talking about the shitgibbon aren’t we? Some days it’s difficult to tell without a program.
TenguPhule
@Mandalay:
Narrator: They did not.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus:
I think its safe to say that if Mueller’s investigation doesn’t kill the king, we’re there, officially.
Because then there’s only the traditional way to get rid of the banana republicans.
TenguPhule
@MobileForkbeard:
As we have observed these many many months, there are no face saving lies around Trump.
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay: I wonder how much of an issue it’ll become in the Nelson-Scott race. Nelson has always tip-toed around the state’s millions of gun nuts, as you pretty much have to do to get elected statewide, but the success of the Parkland kids in moving the needle gives me hope that there’s more room to maneuver than there used to be. The SYG thing was always a sop to the NRA. Was it something people (other than rabid gun nuts, I mean) were demanding? I don’t think so, but I don’t know how it plays with the general public.
Josie
@Ruckus:
You and Amir are both correct in pointing out the plethora of despicable people in the administration, but the *president is the one in charge and therefore the worst. I was never aware of much about him before the election took place, since I live a long way from New York and I don’t watch reality television (or much television at all). I am appalled that he even managed to get on a a ballot, much less actually win. It just proves how ignorant I was about many of my fellow Americans.
Ruckus
@Mary G:
What is this word – privacy, of which you speak?
I gave up on that when I enlisted. And we didn’t have the abilities to reach into a life that we have now. And if we even tried to bring back some semblance of privacy, modern life as we know it would be gone. Because that’s the entire point of belonging, of being a member of a modern society, is sharing. If you don’t think so, look around you next time you are out and about. Everyone is connected, everyone is watching, there really are no secrets, only who knows what, not that they know. The only thing that gets in the way is the shear numbers. Your buying is noticed. Your politics are noticed. Your income is noticed. Your money is noticed (and used). Your communications are noticed. We really don’t have a lot of secrets and if you’ve told anyone, it’s no longer a secret.
tobie
@MisterForkbeard: This is so disheartening and it just reaffirms that no one will save us but us. We need to go the polls in record numbers to oust these a-holes. IG Horowitz is beyond contempt. In his report he acknowledged that nothing Peter Strzok did in his investigations showed evidence of bias but nonetheless chose to condemn him for a “willingness to take (biased) action” based on cherry picked tweets. Yup, Republicans protect their own, all the time, without fail. That’s why they’ll never investigate the NY FBI field office.
Fair Economist
@Brachiator: No, I am not joking. We lose mostly because the Republicans get to break rules and get away with it. Firing Republicans FBI agents for their political views is a fair response to them firing Democrats for theirs. *Afterwards* we can pass laws ti prohibit it.
There has to be some kind of heavy consequence for politicizing the FBI as they have.
Betty Cracker
Here’s a couple of questions for anyone who’s familiar with FBI personnel policies. Can the Bureau’s post-hoc justification of the termination be the affair with a coworker? I’ve read that the FBI has pretty strict “morality” requirements. Also, since Strzok has been fired and presumably lost his pension, etc., is there any reason he can’t go on a TV tour and dump every spoonful of dirt he knows about Trump and his enablers — excluding classified items, of course?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
By the time this is over, Sessions, Wray, Rosenstein and Mueller will be fired, blanket pardons will have been issued to Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr, Eric, Stone, Page and Manafort, and Acting Attorney General Kobach will have insisted that Acting FBI Director Clarke take Hillary, Bill, Obama and Lynch into custody for questioning about Benghazi.
It is the Masha Gessen prediction coming true – norms were inadequate to stop it.
TenguPhule
Cole is having a bad day.
kindness
I wonder how much the NYC FBI office likes Trump now. I mean, they worked so hard to elect him.
NonyNony
@Mandalay:
To be exceedingly fair to the sheriff in a manner he may not deserve – the legislature in Florida wrote the law so that law enforcement isn’t allowed to arrest anyone IF they might be able to successfully make a stand your ground case. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it’s pretty unique in that there aren’t any other laws on the books where the cops have to take into account the kind of defense the suspect might make – usually they’re allowed to arrest them and hold them for some length of time while the prosecutors figure out if they have a case.
Steeplejack (phone)
@kindness:
Judging by GOP talking heads and article sources, there seems to be a pretty high incidence of: “Okay, we may have paid a steep price, but by God we spared the country the horror of Hillary Clinton.”
Mandalay
Keith Ellison is (was?) favorite to win the Dem nomination for AG in Minnesota, but shit is hitting the fan. His ex-girlfriend has issue a very lengthy and very detailed accusation of abuse by him, which Ellison has denied.
He’s also deputy chair of the DNC, so they are going to have to speak out soon.
He’s leaving Congress regardless of what happens. Sad to see, but I suspect his political career is over.
Jeffro
@Eljai: That’s awesome! Now back to “DEMOCRATS IN DISARRAY!”, courtesy of your national media
Gravenstone
@The Dangerman: Yeah, I was going to suggest special agent Strzok was likely surprised to learn that he was in charge during his somewhat brief tenure with Meuller’s team.
Jeffro
@Mary G:
That’s definitely how it looks, yes. Should be exciting as humanity slowly realizes its technology has now forced us into a fully-transparent-at-all-times, regardless-of-how-you-feel-about-that, state.
Gravenstone
@Betty Cracker:
But just think of the sort of boon to humankind he would be capable of, should he ever experience a … misfire, given that particular carry arrangement.
Ruckus
@Josie:
I live in CA so I’m pretty far from NYC as well. But for some strange reason this family has hit a sore spot for me since before I was a teen, and that’s a long time ago. shitgibbon or his dad have been on my radar since then. Not that I wanted them there but they stuck out like a sore thumb. They are to me the epitome of spoiled rich asshole fuckups, whose seeming sole purpose in life is to fuck over those they consider less because they have less money. And what has made them worse is that they just know that those with more money or power are just in it to hold it over them. The world revolves around the stick stuck in their ass and it’s a big stick and they are big asses. Dad was, son is.
Money is their shibboleth, their key to power. They will lie, steal, cheat for even the perception that they have more money, because it means more power. shitgibbon has figured out that the presidency is worth more than anything else he could do, for power. It isn’t even using the power, it’s possessing the power. President Obama got the power, used the power (often very wisely) and when that power was no longer his, he’s stepped back out of even the perception of having that power. That is what one is supposed to do. shitgibbon abuses the power, has not done one thing in his entire life wisely or well because he wants the power to do with as he wants, be that sitting on the shitter, tweeting or doing rallies where people yell his name. Doing the work? This fuck has never done an hour’s worth of work in his entire life. He doesn’t have to he’s the Donald! Such an exalted piece of shit. He gets a following from people who think that this is what life is, who would have crawled across broken glass to lick the king’s boots after he walked among the horses because that’s their role in life, bootlickers. As long as there are people in the strata who would not be allowed to lick the king’s boots. as those people are below them. shitgibbon is the perfect king for the perfect followers, scum leading scum.
Mike in NC
Humorist Celia Rivenbark is calling the imbecile in the Oval Office “Shecky” Trump because his pathetic rallies feature the same tired material (Mexican rapists, Muslim terrorists, etc.), like some lazy two-bit comic working Catskill nightclubs in the 1950s. The audience is more than happy to go along with his act, no matter how many times they’ve seen it.
Mary G
This will solve all the problems//
Of course, our district has gotten rid of driver’s ed due to budget cuts, and will not have any money for this either. They take money from charity for arts education and tutoring, and the fences are plastered with ads for commercial businesses. And I live in a high-income area with very high property values in California, so I’m sure there’s a lot more property tax money coming in than the average.
Mandalay
@NonyNony:
IANAL so my opinion on this means nothing, and you may be right, but a lobbyist for the NRA seems to disagree:
Jeffro
@Steeplejack (phone): And yet, they never seem to be able to articulate exactly what hellish fate we would all be enduring (OHTHEHUMANITY!) under President She-Beast…it’s always just a quick aside and then moving right along…
How about a president who doesn’t tweet crazy, sleazy, offensive bullshit and lies all day long? Wouldn’t that be what we’d have to “endure” under a President Clinton? I’m willing to go all-in on that level of the inferno…
wjs
Wow, I can’t wait for a Democrat to pull something like this because they will certainly get away with it said no one ever because they damned sure won’t be able to ever fire some wingnut bureaucrat.
JustRuss
@Lee: I have a friend of a friend who’s an FBI agent. He’s conservative, but not an idiot. They never talk politics, but I’m hoping they’ll break their unwritten rule and we’ll find he’s coming around on Trump. But who knows, tribalism is a hell of a drug.
Ladyraxterinok
@Steeplejack (phone): I’ve seen comments of the type ‘So what if Trump worked with Putin?? The Russians saved us from Hillary.’
Jeffro
@Mary G: I’ll be signing my kids out early on that day/those days, and using the time to write letters to our Rep and Senators, calling TV stations, etc. Hell. No.
shell
But it sounds like Lily is having a great day!
Villago Delenda Est
How does Donald continue to live when filled with so much spite and bile?
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
And to think that I suggested that a way to get rid of them is reasonable term limits. Not one or two terms mind you but enough for a career, or to move to another office if they wanted to stay in politics. But enough of having loons build seniority and hold important chairmanships for far too long. Could we at least have some reasonable limit on committee chairs? I understand competency, I really do, but I also understand partisan incompetency.
H.E.Wolf
@TenguPhule:
The traditional way in this country is: we vote.them.out. Fantasizing about violent methods is… not useful.
If you (this is the plural “you”, not just T.Ph.) haven’t already found a way to volunteer to get out the vote for the 2018 elections, get going! It will be way more enjoyable than you expect.
There is something for everyone to do. If you can’t stomach the GOTV tasks, bring food to the campaign office. You will be eulogized, lionized, possibly canonized. :)
Gravenstone
@Mary G: Sounds like you need a laptop or other bluetooth enabled device within range, as the pen itself would likely have very limited data capacity for voice recordings.
Corner Stone
Trump is flop sweating and dying while speaking at FT Drum.
germy
@Gravenstone: I was under the impression she simply used a “note taking” app on her smartphone. Maybe the staffers are blaming a pen because they’re embarrassed the No Cell Phones Rule was not enforced.
James E Powell
@Ruckus:
Aren’t there better ways to get rid of incompetent committee chairs? Why have a rule that requires good people to step down?
bemused
@Corner Stone:
Why is he on tv today?
TenguPhule
@H.E.Wolf: I live in Hawaii. Short of us being wiped out by a Hurricane, we’re solid Democratic votes that count for basically nothing. We’re sending Ed Fucking Both-sides-do-it Case back to House because Hanabusa was too fucking stupid and greedy to stay in her House Seat.
Republicans are all but extinct here. There were less then 3,000 registered voters for their primary.
hueyplong
@Corner Stone: Literally?
Catherine D.
Oy, Carl Palladino (R-rich racist) has announced he’s running for Chris Collins’ seat.
Corner Stone
@bemused: Funnily enough, he’s at FT Drum to sign a Natl Defense Auth Act bill…named for John McCain.
All his applause lines are falling flat, except for the ones that specifically mention 10th Armored.
Ruckus
@Mary G:
Aww you missed the best part. To get a license for the first time in CA one has to take classroom or private training. As in paid private training. And most schools have cut driver training due to costs. So that means that kids in your affluent area can afford private training but a lot of kids can’t. Is it a wonder that kids aren’t getting cars at 16 like they did when we were that age?
Roger Moore
@Ruckus:
What I would say is that the only way to get something resembling privacy back is to establish a social convention where taking advantage of the information that’s out there is considered to be unacceptable behavior. If we can get people to accept that Google stalking somebody is just as bad as physically stalking them, we have a chance to get some semblance of privacy back.
Paul Krugman has actually had some very interesting comments on this general topic. His point was that servants have presented rich people with about the same problem for a long time. The more your servants know about you, the better they can serve you, because they can anticipate your needs. So getting the very best service means you need to be able to count on the discretion of your servants not to gossip. We need to establish that Google and Facebook should also not be allowed to gossip.
Corner Stone
@hueyplong: Well, he is bombing in his stump speech. And at a macro level we’re all dying a little each day. So, yeah.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
He thrives on spite and vile. He isn’t like real humans.
Gravenstone
@germy: Of course the ‘no cellphone rule’ wasn’t enforced. Trump takes his antiquated personal phone with him everywhere, so the normal monitors to identify the presence of such devices can’t be used. And five will get you ten his own phone is actively broadcasting audio nonstop to … someone. Wonder if he complains about battery life problems?
hueyplong
@Corner Stone: I am a little impatient today. My bad.
TenguPhule
@Villago Delenda Est:
Its what keeps him alive. He is Palpatine squared.
rikyrah
@D58826:
@Mary G: Rudy and the NY field office leaked like a sieve with anti-Clinton stuff.
Yes, they did, and should be brought upon charges.
Miss Bianca
@Mandalay: Wow, Marion Hammer said that? Must be feeling the heat from somewhere. Normally there isn’t one shooting that the NRA won’t stick up for, as long as it’s a white person doing the shooting.
Corner Stone
Uh oh. Now his dentures have slipped.
Ruckus
@James E Powell:
Because it’s a democracy? Or is supposed to be.
Good for the goose, blah, blah blah.
I didn’t like the military because it wasn’t a democracy. But it was never intended to be one. But today we have people of color, differing religions, and gasp females, all doing the jobs that in my life time were only done by MEN. Our military is actually a better democracy than our civilian life and people are limited by what they know and do from continuing up the ladder, to stay in you have to advance, you have to show minimum competency. Even Kelly had to toe the policy and norms. Which he sure the fuck doesn’t have to do now.
We have a political system that is not responsive to the entire country, and a piece of that is the power we give them. I’m suggesting that we take back some of that power because you and I can only vote for president, vp, 2 senators and one rep. We trust them to do everything else. Do you like how they are doing that? I didn’t think so. The only way to control that is to control it so that the bad can’t take as deep a root. That means the good will have limits as well. I don’t like that but right now the bad is far. far, out weighing the good. It has happened before, it will happen again if we don’t limit that power. We have given immense power to people who want to abuse it, what else ya got?
JPL
@Corner Stone: ugh.. He’s gonna spitter all over isn’t he.
Just One More Canuck
@James E Powell: I would think that those would make for interesting evidence in a wrongful dismissal case. Maybe an employment law specialist could chime in
Corner Stone
He’s now off script and ad libbing.
sukabi
@TenguPhule: diversion…those are the POC(pirates of color) of course they get covered. It’s the POWS (pirates on wall street) that do all the real damage.
There is probably something bigger that needs a diversion. Cynical? Who me?
Roger Moore
@Gravenstone:
I don’t know why you’d assume that. Even uncompressed you can get a couple of hours of CD-quality audio in 1 GB, and there are now 128 GB micro SD cards. I think battery life would be a bigger issue than storage space.
Corner Stone
I don’t think he ever once said John McCain’s name. I might have missed it.
Citizen_X
@gene108: I don’t necessarily want the FBI agents from NYC shitcanned, I would be fine with breaking them up and transferring them to different places. Say, like Caspar, WY, or Fairbanks, AK, or Del Rio, TX…
sukabi
@Eljai: sounds like someone is getting ready to clean the family closets.
Martin
@TenguPhule: I’ll note that when my bosses come up with stupid fucking ideas, I insist they go into their own unit rather than mine so that I don’t need to explain why the stupid fucking idea didn’t work somewhere down the road.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
ITYM 10th Mountain, which is based at Ft. Drum.
Spanky
@Corner Stone: You’re actually listening?
Thank you for your service.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: Yes, I screwed that one up.
Dorothy A. Winsor
For demographic reasons, my FBI agent friend is not part of the inside boys’ club at the agency. Friend is still more conservative than I am, but voted for Clinton. Never talks politics if possible. Says the NYC office is mess.
Martin
@Mary G: Those have been around for some time. You can pretty much turn them on, stick them in your shirt pocket and go through a whole day, turn them off at the end of the day, download. Audio quality isn’t the best, but it’s serviceable.
sukabi
@TenguPhule: if they harass him too much he might open fire on them and claim self defense.
JPL
@Corner Stone: How off script? Did he mention that crooked Hillary hated the troops?
Martin
@Citizen_X: I do. I work in the public sector and I’d be fired in a heartbeat for anything half as bad as that.
Corner Stone
@Spanky: I’ve been flipping back and forth between Trump and Lake Placid: The Final Chapter. I can only take a limited amount of complete fantasy bullshit before it gets too much. Then I switch to the more realistic monster croc movie.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I’m all ears. But there is too much money involved. A servant is dealing with a few people at best and has a good reason not to open up. With our legal system, any law would take a long time to apply in any particular case and abuse would always be a possibility, with little way to even know until it’s way too late. And a loose cannon inside any number of companies/associations that were trying to follow the law would still be a problem. To me the issue is that the flood gates have been opened, all our info is out there, in government databases, in private databases, in databases we know nothing about. I’m a member of the ACLU, I donate yearly, I get emails to the email I gave them. But within the last week I got an email from them for an account that I seldom use and a text and I’ve never given them my number. The fucking ACLU. That’s not a place I expected this from. And yet there it is. Nothing is secret, the genie has long flown the coop. How do you stuff that back in place? With laws? Our fucking president thinks laws are for everyone else and a number of people think that is great because it means they get the same privileges. Show me a fix, but I don’t think you can. It’s like my comment about limiting the power of congress by limiting the time they can spend in any one place which limits their power. And I get massive push back from people who are very lefties. I’ve yet to hear or see an alternative. I’m open to any discussion.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@Betty Cracker:
I was wondering that as well. I think that might make a settlement more likely than a trial, limiting his ability to force the issue.
sukabi
@Jeffro: don’t you know? Everyone would be forced to have a vagina, and actually be qualified for the jobs they have…and have access to affordable healthcare. It would literally be the end of the world.
Corner Stone
@JPL: No, nothing newsworthy. Just the usual repetition of phrases he thinks sound good, random praise for himself and how now America is respected around the world again. “Take a look around and you’ll see.”
The military was in total disrepair in the ’90s but not now. It’s funded bigly and America is yoogely respected again. More than ever before. Like never before.
MisterForkbeard
@Mandalay: These laws only ever get changed or taken down when White People are affected. Maybe reporters will end up shooting some Trump supporters after rallies. That might change it, and the reporters are certainly being threatened and would have justifiable reasons for self-defence under the law.
Corner Stone
@sukabi: I simply *have* to subscribe to your newsletter.
chris
@Corner Stone:
Just the usual lies, ably pointed out by Daniel Dale who watches this shit so we don’t have to.
TenguPhule
Virgina is fucked up.
We’re never going to make this right.
Geoboy
Lisa Page is not the one who is shamed by these Tweets.
Mary G
Sacha Baron Cohen has struck again – he got Corey Lewandowski
Via Newsweek.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus:
And yet we still know little about Trump’s past and that of his spawn. Information blackholes prior to the election one and all.
Litlebritdifrnt
@TenguPhule:
That is the greatest tweet, ever in the history of tweets. Hands down.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@Betty Cracker:
I thought SYG was in part a reaction to the minimal use of force court rulings that were starting to establish a duty to retreat and fears that it would lead to people having to leave their own homes when under assault. I believe there were some white women charged when shooting at home invaders that was used as the rational. One of those pendulum responses where things went a little nutty one way and then the response was to go nuttier the other way.
Mnemosyne
@Mike in NC:
I’m always glad when one of my favorite memes has made it out into the wild where other people can enjoy it. I’ve been saying for years that there’s nothing “modern” or “edgy” about bigoted jokes that your great-grandfather laughed along to.
MagdaInBlack
The folks over at Fox have decided to float this one:
HRA
Ok The second time I have to reload is getting a tad tiresome Wonder how I got CNN news in the side ads as well. I’ll be back to finish reading the comments I am really enjoying here later. .
bemused
@Mary G:
Wow. I think there been at least three others so far that Cohen has punked. How dumb-gullible are these people? Never mind, rhetorical question.
H.E.Wolf
@TenguPhule:
Alas, I’ve heard about Ed Case. You have my sympathies.
If there’s nothing to be done about him, then you have the option of virtual phone-banking anywhere in the country; DNC website has a list of events.
Although I haven’t volunteered with the DNC (fully occupied with the 3 big red-to-blue races in our state), I’m confident that your help would be welcome!
ETA: Or, if time/finances permit, come to the Pacific Northwest for a weekend – we’ll host a Balloon Juice get-together in your honor if you’d like one, and you can join me at the campaign HQ for an hour or two, and we’ll bundle up campaign flyers together.
Roger Moore
@YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S):
No. Many states- even liberal place like California- have a “castle doctrine”, where there is no duty to retreat when somebody has broken into your house. SYG extended that to eliminate the need to retreat everywhere. IIRC, most self-defense statutes have an exception where you can’t claim self defense if you initiated a confrontation, and SYG also did away with that.
Mary G
@bemused: Funny that he never gets anyone like Nancy Pelosi or Adam Schiff.
Jeffro
@Catherine D.:
Wow…looks like this here atheist has been wrong all these years…there really is a god.
Booger
@TenguPhule: My gawd? Are they keeping them at Western State???
Martin
@Gravenstone: The codecs used for these are pretty different from what you would use for music. There are algorithms out there for 700bps voice encoding on low power devices, which gives you about 3 hrs of voice recording in 1MB of storage. With voice activation, you could probably record a 4-5 hour event with 1MB of storage.
A few benefits of voice:
1) Much, much narrower band than music.
2) Much less information to encode. If you can identify breaks in speech, you can encode that period of time in just a few bits.
3) Much simpler information to encode. Because this is basically one channel of data, if you have some surplus computing power (who doesn’t) you can more-or-less laplace transform the input signal even in super low-power devices.
This is why recorded audio can sound really funky, but holy shit can you make it tiny. All this stuff really cranked up way back in the 80s when you needed to get a voice signal over a very slow connections. Early GSM was 14.4kb/s, so you needed a full voice codec that could work under 6kb/s and at that time they were using every bit they could to improve voice quality (Sprints pin drop). But you can go lower if you don’t care what it looks like.
Music has too much range and too much going on and variation to be as creative with the signal compression.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
This. I looked it up when Trayvon Martin was murdered and Florida removed that requirement from their self-defense statue. California has had a “castle doctrine” and SYG law for 100 years, but it specifies that the person who started the fight cannot claim self-defense.
That means that the abusive ex-husband who went to his ex-wife’s house with a gun and shot her new boyfriend dead was able to claim self-defense under SYG in Florida … and he succeeded, because the statute says it doesn’t matter who started the fight as long as the killer claims he was afraid.
That’s why I’m very nervous about this new case. Under the law as it is currently written, the guy is going to walk, because the Florida law says that the aggressor is allowed to claim self-defense as long as he says he was in fear of his life at the time.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@Roger Moore: Yes, many but not all had a castle doctrine, and I believe cases in NYC were seen as eroding support for that, and SYG was first argued as a counter to a move to codify duty to retreat in a number of states adversely for self defence arguments. But it was a long time ago and I might be misremembering the arguments.
TenguPhule
‘Immigration hypocrite’: Stephen Miller’s uncle lambastes him in scathing op-ed
Hahahahahahaha!
Jeffro
@MagdaInBlack:
Which is kind of cute, until someone does a comparison of how much Russian money Trumpov and Mueller have each received over the past couple decades. Or a comparison of each man’s statements regarding being friends with “Rusher” and Putin. Or any one of a hundred other categories.
I mean, that’s so dumb that only the most tinfoil-hatted of Trumpov’s base could possi…er…never mind.
The Moar You Know
@Ruckus: I live in one district down from Mary, far as I can tell, in a school district that’s far more wealthy than hers. And here’s the weird thing; none of them want to drive. They can, but they don’t. I will never understand it. I grew up in the same district back when it was all poor flower farmers and we all couldn’t wait to drive, as that was your escape. Your ticket to freedom. My wife teaches in the same district. The kids just don’t want to drive.
bemused
@Mary G:
You gotta be a special brand of idiot to get punked in such humiliating, ridiculous setups. I’d be laughing if these cretins weren’t trying to kill us.
sukabi
@bemused: he’s punked ALL OF THEM. Every single one of them.
Mnemosyne
@Mary G:
I remember seeing Adam Schiff on “The Colbert Report” when they did their Know Your District series. He got asked the same dumb questions that Republicans do, but he gave smart answers to them. He was clearly having a good time.
MagdaInBlack
@Jeffro:
I’m trying to figure out how this all ties in with the “Q” conspiracy.
But this angle does give trump the opportunity to play “OMG….Et tu, Vlad?”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mandalay: from the article
Crazy, dumb white boy with gun law
You see, this is what Country Western does to people, that music goes on about guns, bible and strong drink, those people get their Social Security checks and waste them on opiats, they get to line dancing and those people just go nuts and next thing you know they are messing with some nice, clean cut black family. It’s sad.
bemused
@sukabi:
Mindboggling!
Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi)
Why I started listening to sports radio:
Nice Polite Republicans begin today’s ATC with a Pelosi, dems in disarray story. F em
Jeffro
@sukabi:
I keep forgetting all the details from Book of Wingnut Revelations, my bad. Am I remembering correctly that in BoWR, even the melanin-enhanced are able to vote, nobody tweets about “fire and fury” at countries with nuclear weapons, and our corporate overlords don’t walk away with every. last. fucking. dime? (shiver) Yeesh, who wants to live like that??
Martin
@Mary G:
Serrano v Priest
The state doesn’t directly fund districts from the local tax base. Rather, funding is centralized and redistributed. This case and Prop 13 are intertwined – rich white Californians not wanting their property tax dollars to go to poor brown Californians, a result of the Serrano case. As a result, we have a system of nobody getting enough tax dollars but the rich white Californians will set up foundations for their local schools to make up for the funding shortfall.
sukabi
@bemused: yeah. We have mental health / education deficits in conjunction with a surplus of white grievance and gullibility in this country.
Jeffro
@MagdaInBlack: I think that’s it…”VLAD! How could you try and trick America like this? And you tricked my own son into taking a meeting with your operatives? You tricked the NRA into taking your money? You managed to hack the DNC’s emails and then released them at times when it benefitted me tremendously?? (starts Shatner-esque bad acting & voice) Why. You Underhanded. Villain, You!”
Can we please just ‘gong’ Orangemandias and move on? This is beyond Dumb Watergate at this point…
jl
I’m having trouble understanding news out of the WH today. Anyone have a link on how an infinite regress of illegal and unenforceable Non-Disclosure Agreements work? If you go deep enough, is there a point where they become OK? Thanks in advance.
Corner Stone
I just don’t like FBI Agent Strzok. He comes across as another James Comey “self-righteous I know better” asshole. I don’t think he should have been fired for political reasons but I don’t mind that he’s out of the LEO environment.
Mandalay
@Miss Bianca:
It may seem counterintuitive, but I suspect that the NRA is hoping for a successful conviction in this specific case, though their motives are entirely dishonorable.
The video is damning, and they may fear a backlash against Florida Republicans in November if they side with the killer. So they toss him to the wolves, proclaim that this vile incident was never what stand your ground was about, and claim victory for the existing law when he goes to the slammer.
MagdaInBlack
@Jeffro:
I’ve decided the Coen brothers are best suited for this film. Sort of a “Raising Arizona/Fargo” black comedy.
ETA: and a bit of Millers Crossing, because there are real bad guys.
The Moar You Know
@Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi): Some MSM outlet took NPR to serious task for their recent reporting on white supremacists. Wish I could remember which one it was. But their true bias is just barely starting to be noticed. Which is good.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Just today?
No, never.
Martin
@The Moar You Know: I can explain a bit of that. My son doesn’t drive. He’s 20. Got his permit – just didn’t want to learn. There’s a host of related reasons:
1) Cars are expensive to own and operate, and they’re struggling enough to pay for college and a downpayment for a house
2) Cars are major environmental problems. They’re much more open to EVs, but they’re even more expensive and inconvenient for someone who doesn’t have their own garage.
3) Cars are societally damaging. They demand entirely too much land. Manhattan is one of the worst places in the US to drive a car, and yet 25% of the most expensive real estate in the country is dedicated to them. An urban retail space may have a parking:retail ratio of 3:1. Three square feet of parking for every square foot of shopping space – consumers will complain about the lack of parking. And remember, the retailer in one form or another is going to have to pay for all 4 square feet. A suburban retail space may have a 12:1 or 20:1 parking:retail ratio. Again, the store is paying for all 13-21 square feet off of the sales they generate in 1 square foot.
A big reason why Amazon is destroying retail is that it turns out that sending a truck to your house is cheaper than propping up all that square footage dedicated to the cars, particularly in places with high real estate costs (California, etc). If you look at retail spaces that are flourishing, they are urban spaces with no parking infrastructure or they are retail spaces where the parking costs are subsidized in some other way.
Believe it or not, high school students seem to vastly more cognizant of the economic costs than adults are probably because the car was more or less our only connection to the larger world, wheras they get a choice. They have the internet, Amazon, Grubhub, Uber, and so on. Life without a car is MUCH easier, and as it turns out, much cheaper both in the short term but probably in the long term as well.
The Moar You Know
@Corner Stone: So in other words, he acts like the cop he is.
They’re all like that.
Martin
@TenguPhule: Agreed. Never. They’re completely incompatible with public service. Who is the wronged party? Not Trump, they don’t work for him. They work for the office. They work for us. And we have NDAs – they’re called security clearances and they’re governed by very specific things. Everything else comes under FOIA.
gvg
@Mandalay: I read the original law when it was published, and it looked to me like any public official was in danger of losing their job if they charged someone who then was exonerated. This means to me that all DA’s and police were supposed to know ahead of time what evidence & witnesses were going to be found out AND what a jury would think which is demanding they have God like perception. Since the law went into effect, it mostly hasn’t seemed like officials are reading it like that, however that is what it looked like to me.
This lobbyist is IMO full of it. He may not have intended this to be the reading, and the most problematic part may be ignored by most because maybe it’s just not legal because of some higher law. However there was some really extreme language and for him to claim there wasn’t seems wrong to me. He could say, the sherrif’s view is wrong, just not that there was “nothing” in the language.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: Might have been the WaPost. NPR teaches listeners about the proper care and feeding of white nationalists
NPR responded to that with David Folkenflik item on today’s Morning Edition, apparently. Pretty much hides behind POC on NPR staff. “Hey, our African American female Executive Producer was fine with it; the interviewer was biracial!” Says just about nothing. In 4 minutes. His concluding paragraph:
“A tough call.” WTF does that mean? Is that like Andrea Greenspan and others saying “controversial”? Which is kind of a euphemism for “fake and batshit crazy?” What’s a professional journalist to do?
@Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi): Thanks for the head’s up. I couldn’t find the Pelosi item with a quick skim of today’s Morning Edition topics, online. I no longer listen to NPR’s news shows (maybe a segment or two a month in the car); do sometimes catch their hourly recaps on the classical and jazz station I love.
Anyway, the Pelosi story (whatever it is, and if we can find it) might be great fodder for a letter to the director of your local NPR affiliate, cc’d to HQ.
Mandalay
@gvg:
That was actually written into the law, or that was your interpretation of it (i.e there was a veiled threat)?
Regardless, when Adam Putnam (a Republican running for Governor in Florida) was asked today about the killer being charged he replied “I support the State Attorney’s decision. The process worked“.
So the Florida Republicans and the NRA are presumably going to argue that this case has absolutely nothing to do with Stand Your Ground law.
The guy who pulled the trigger is now in a bad place – he has no support from the general public, or Republicans, or the NRA.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
But if you funded them, wouldn’t you be a sponsor too?
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
I think the benefits of driving have been shrinking over time. We we got our licenses, we really were free. We could drive where, when, and with whom we wanted. Now they’ve tightened up the rules a lot. For the first year they have their license, minors can’t drive with another minor in the car unless there’s an adult over the age of 25 along, and they can’t drive between 11 PM and 5 AM. If you can’t drive around with just your friends in the car and you can’t drive late at night, you don’t actually get the most interesting parts of the freedom of driving.
TenguPhule
@Mandalay:
Unfortunately they wrote the law which will probably work for him. Barring a judge willing to be sane and sensible for once.
Dan B
@sukabi: OMGerd! Mock them. It erodes their power. Straight out of Saul Alinsky.
germy
PEETUS tweeted this at Kasich:
Kasich replied with a “laughing Putin” gif.
Patricia Kayden
@Mary G:
And we know that the NY office for the FBI was full of Clinton haters. That should be the scandal since Comey claims that they forced his hands to release info about the FBI’s investigation into Clinton’s laptop just weeks before the election. Strzok and his lover exchanged emails where they denigrated Trump and Clinton and Sanders. They were equal opportunity haters.
ruemara
@germy: Christ. They’re all schoolyard bullies about the age of 10.
Jeffro
I think Strozk just tweeted at Trumpov that he’s a Russian asset? Checking now…
Jeffro
@Jeffro: Yup. If it’s really him. Check out @_PeterStrozk
Wow
jl
@Patricia Kayden: I’m wondering why the Strzok texts that hate on Corner Stone haven’t come out. Another Mueller scandal?
Another Scott
@Jeffro: https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2018/08/13/that-was-quick-if-this-is-really-peter-strzoks-first-tweet-then-holy-sht/
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro:
He misspells his own name? It’s Strzok.
zhena gogolia
OT — Has anybody mentioned that Aretha is near death?
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: lamh posted a marvelous Aretha youtube this morning.
Wishing Aretha and her loved ones and fans all the best. She is one of the greats.
PS: How cool is it to be a one-namer?
Corner Stone
@jl: They have. I am really Chelsea Clinton.
tobie
@Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi): So the “ditch Nancy” movement has gone from the National Review and Jacobin to CNN to the Washington Post and now to NPR. Kacie Hunt featured this on her show as well last night. I’m so sick of this. Let Nancy step down on her own terms and in her own time. She’s more than earned that. And frankly given her legislative accomplishments, it would be far better for the Democratic party to have her use the next year and a half to train a new generation of Congressional leaders on how to get laws passed.
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
That’s apparently from a fake account.
Aleta
@Elizabelle:
(Same WaPo article)
Keep going Bobby.
Aleta
Politico
Elizabelle
@tobie: Agree 100%. Here’s a Real Clear Politics (I know) transcript of Pelosi’s appearance on an MSNBC show. Pelosi to Dem Candidates: “Do Whatever You Have To Do, Just Win”
What, have her replaced with some white guy (like Joe whatever from NY, whom we’d never heard of!), or some other person new to the job and challenges? No fucking way. Go with the woman who shepherded the Affordable Care Act through, and ran rings around Speaker Boehner.
It’s like demanding Captain Sullenberger be fired, after he pulled off that amazing Hudson water landing. “Did you see him? Did you see the white hair?”
Patricia Kayden
@Eljai: LOL. Good for the son though. His father is a douche. I’m sure being banned from that household is a blessing in disguise.
tobie
@Elizabelle: Good on her! I love her feistiness. And she’s right: she is the best person for the job. That’s why Republicans hate her, and probably why the DSA-crowd hates her, too. She won’t bend to anyone. Her guiding principle seems to be that the Dems need to work with fellow Dems to craft legislation that will pass the House.
Cckids
@Corner Stone: “He’s now off script and ad libbing.”
I read your comment as “ad-blabbing”, and now I have a new term for Trump’s speeches.
rikyrah
@Mandalay:
Nothing but a banana in the tailpipe.
Fall for this foolishness ? ? if you dare.
Vhh
@Elizabelle: Goodlatte’s son is contributing to his father’s opponent’s campaign.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore: whew
jl
Is this really happening? Does Trump think the average trooper is as dumb and abject as his average Trumpster voter?
Maybe Silverman can follow up later?
John Harwood
@JohnJHarwood
Trump, addressing troops at Fort Drum, mocks them for wanting pay raise Congress just enacted; “Are these real patriots?”
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1029082412108656640
Found via Josh Marshall twiiter
Edit: Trump likes to stiff his workers and contractors. So, maybe he is getting pissed ‘he’ (federal government) has to pay people who signed up for military service? From Iraq war, we know the GOP is sympathetic to that line of thinking, even if they are smart enough to keep it quiet, usually if not always.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Mary G: Yes. Also fired for expressing private opinions on government issued phones. I had colleagues at the Smithsonian reprimanded for private comments on Facebook about business trips. Although I think the Smithsonian has higher ethical standards than the FBI.
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
They keep on thinking that she is Nancy Smash from San Francisco.
Naw, son
She lives in San Francisco..
She will always be Nancy from Baltimore, where she got her education about politics at her Daddy’s knee. They keep on underestimating Nancy from Baltimore.
I will say it again.
Nancy Smash raised $70 million for Democrats this election cycle.
You want a shot at her?
Show YOUR $70 MILLION..
And get the phucking votes.
These whiny azz muthaphuckas ? want someone to hand them a leadership position ?
Uncle Cosmo
@rikyrah: Phuckin’ A!
MagdaInBlack
@rikyrah:
Ditto the “Phuckin’ A!”
Ruckus
@The Moar You Know:
This is true as well. The kids used to want to get out of the house and hang with other kids/friends. That took a car. Now it takes a phone. And mom and dad likely pay for that. This removes all the talk of being responsible, of not getting into trouble, well some of it I’m sure. And they look around and figure that if they go to college, that’s going to cost some one a lot and/or leave them with a ton of college debt. Living at home isn’t as bad when you have a hand held escape machine. No cost for gas, no cost for tickets, no cost for insurance, no way to get to an after school job……
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Damn right, rikyrah. Damn right.
I forget about the Charm City background, too.
Go, Nancy Smash.
Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi)
@Elizabelle: it was 4 o’clock ATC lead story, I haven’t yet stopped piddling monthly$$ to wnyc, but I might