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You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / Russiagate Open Thread: The Manafort Jury Is Out

Russiagate Open Thread: The Manafort Jury Is Out

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Who’s betting on a particularly busy / toxic Friday News Dump?…

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118Comments

  4. 4.

    Lapassionara

    My favorite jury question (we were representing the plaintiff contractor) was “can we award attorneys fees.”

  8. 8.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    One of my favorite jury questions was the one asked in The Verdict, though it came after the verdict. I won’t spoil it though.

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Just heard (from an only-occasionally reliable source) that T has decided to postpone his big military parade until 2019. Asked for a source, friend hasn’t replied yet. anyone here know anything about this?

  13. 13.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Sentence first, verdict afterwards!

    BTW, enjoying the JAL Business Class lounge here in Bangkok as I’m awaiting my first leg to Tokyo, and them back to SFO after a brief layover.

    Thankfully, the surgeon gives you a letter requesting wheelchair service — the airport looks far, far bigger when you’re returning after genital reassignment surgery.

    Just to clarify, I can walk short distances, and apparently there’s some stairs to navigate (since the check-in counter asked about it), but pushing a rolling bag almost a half-kilometer definitely wouldn’t have been a good idea.

    The international date line is once again interesting. I leave at 9:45 a.m., and despite the 18-hour trip, I arrive in SFO at 1:30 p.m. the same day. I’ve crossed it a number of times before, but it still amuses me.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    “After the verdict, can we stay and watch the punishment phase?”

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

  15. 15.

    efgoldman

    Are we obsessing just a wee bit?

    And now where did the fucking formatting boxes go??!!?

  17. 17.

    kindness

    Well it wasn’t the OJ trial thank the FSM but one would think that with just what was presented by the prosecution that he has to end up guilty of several serious counts. Not sure what to make of the jury’s questions about reasonable doubt. What???? How? Did they see a different trial?

  19. 19.

    Jerzy Russian

    I once served on a jury for a case where the defense counsel offered no defense. A homeless man was arrested for “lodging” outside a local church. The prosecution produced a few witnesses who testified that the homeless man was sleeping on a piece of cardboard outside the church, and the defense counsel in her closing arguments did not argue or dispute the testimony. We (the jury) deliberated for a while, and ended up sending the homeless man up the river, where he would get three hots and a cot.

    I hope things play out in a similar manner in the Manafort case, although I am flexible on the “three hots and a cot” part.

  24. 24.

    Major Major Major Major

    @kindness: based on the article Baud posted downstairs, it looks like the defense’s closing argument tried to portray “reasonable doubt” as a very very high bar to clear. The judge clarified that it means “doubt which is based in reason” or somesuch phrase.

  27. 27.

    Platonailedit

    Major Trump donors are bothered that the campaign may have been used as a slush fund to pay fired or troublesome employees.

    "It's diverting donor money that could be used to wage the midterm election battle … instead, it's an elongated hush payment." https://t.co/zoVHLqe21c

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 16, 2018

    Really, assholes? You dropped a billion apiece against the Kenyan and still thought that this known fraud is it?

  28. 28.

    Patricia Kayden

    Just read that Omarosa has 200 tapes. Sounds as if she taped what was going on every dang day she was in the White House. Sister Girl wasn’t playing.

    She’s still a horrible person though for even taking a job with the Trump regime.

  30. 30.

    Major Major Major Major

    @efgoldman: the formatting boxes are loaded with JavaScript towards the back of the queue. Any JavaScript malfunction further forward (which is where the ad scripts are) can stop execution of the rest of the page. So, malfunctioning ad can equal no formatting boxes or pie filter or…

  31. 31.

    The Midnight Lurker

    @lamh36: Years ago, when I was a young, idealistic investigator, I had a client who got sent up on a bullshit charge. He was a good guy, but he had a record and the ASSt. DA was a real butthead. His court appointed attorney was useless, so I worked my ass off to get this guy off. I was disappointed and disillusioned when I couldn’t.
    Before they sent him away, he told me, “You know that statue of justice? That’s why the bitch is holding scales. Sometimes they swing your way, sometimes the other.” Then he thanked me. I couldn’t stop the tears.
    I’ve never looked at Lady Justice the same way since.

  32. 32.

    feebog

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the questions this Jury is asking. There are 18 counts, and they have to consider each one. If they announce they have a verdict tomorrow it will def be guilty on most or all counts.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    The last time i had high hopes for the outcome of a jury trial was O.J. Needless to say, that did not go the way I had hoped.

    The last tines I had faith in the Supreme Court to make a decision based on the law and not political party was the year 2000. Until then, I actually believed that the highest court in the land made decisions based on precedent and the rule of law. I was devastated.

    Trying not to get my hopes up too much on this one.

  39. 39.

    kindness

    Let’s assume he gets convicted of some fun stuff. Does Trump pull an Arpaio and pardon him before sentencing or after? It’s a given that will happen. I wonder how the part about how he can’t take the 5th on things he’s been pardoned for plays out.

  43. 43.

    Zinsky

    The millions of dollars that Paul Manafort made as a political “consultant” was drenched in human blood. He provided his slimy form of guidance to dictators like Suharto and Abacha in return for stolen money looted from that countries’ people. Here is a good summary:

    https://www.newsweek.com/heres-where-paul-manafort-did-business-corrupt-dictators-1061470

    Manafort is nothing more than shit wrapped in skin and deserves any and every punishment he gets. There is a very warm corner of Hell waiting for this degenerate.

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Given that the Pentagon leaked today that it will now cost $80 million, which is $70 million more than initially stated. So it wouldn’t surprise me if someone explained that this can’t happen. And the solution was pitch it as moving it to 2019 so it can be during the campaign.

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    @Patricia Kayden:
    “Make it so.” They deserve each other. I, however, will always recall this:

    “Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump,” she said. “It’s everyone who’s ever doubted Donald, who ever disagreed, who ever challenged him. It is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe.”

    If she’s going to claim it was all political theater I’m going to need some really compelling evidence.

  48. 48.

    WaterGirl

    @NotMax: I love Cole, and I hate it when people here give him a hard time. In spite of that, I feel compelled to say that I think Cole is missing the boat by sticking with the ads and he’s losing a lot of commenters because of the problems with ads on the site.

  51. 51.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:
    I read in the last thread that the parade Dotard wants is specifically prohibited by the budget legislation — in particular, the use of certain military vehicles. Will he resort to using his imaginary authority to pick and choose which laws to enforce?

  52. 52.

    efgoldman

    @WaterGirl: Hey been looking for you.
    Scooter guys came out and measured me for a new one.
    Lead time is ~3 months, because they’re all custom made to measure.
    Medicare/Blue Cross picks up 90$
    Ramp guys coming out next week

  54. 54.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s not just the money. Reposting – GovExec:

    The estimated cost of the Trump administration’s military parade, planned for Nov. 10 in Washington, reportedly has grown to $92 million, a 600 percent increase over the $12 million the Defense Department estimated in July.

    According to CNBC, the parade is to include as many as eight tanks, along with other armored vehicles such as the Bradley and Stryker fighting vehicles and the M113 armored personnel carrier. The parade as currently conceived also would include a variety of aircraft, including helicopters, fighter jets and flyovers from historical planes.

    But there is one problem with the proposal, which has not been officially announced: the Defense Department is legally barred from using any of those vehicles in the parade.

    A provision in the fiscal 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, signed by President Trump on Monday, explicitly prohibits the use of tanks, planes or other vehicles from being used during the event.

    “In providing support [for the parade], the secretary [of defense] may expend funds for the display of small arms and munitions appropriate for customary ceremonial honors and for the participation of military units that perform customary ceremonial duties,” the law states. “[The secretary] may not expend funds to provide motorized vehicles, aviation platforms [or] munitions other than the munitions specifically described [above].”

    Trump issued a statement when he signed the law on Monday objecting to a number of provisions and suggesting he may not enforce some aspects of the bill. But he did not mention the provision outlining how funds may be spent on the military parade.

    Trying to spend money that Congress hasn’t appropriated is a very big no-no, as you know.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    Mnemosyne

    So for the people who were willing to listen to my whining earlier today about getting stuck in my decluttering process, I think I figured out the problem. All of the stuff I had boxed up so far was pre-sorted, so to speak, into various piles of books, knitting stuff, office supplies, etc.

    Now I’ve worked past that point and I’m back in the Land Of Undifferentiated Piles Of Stuff. My best bet is probably to take a step back and do some more sorting-into-piles rather than trying to trying to sort each individual object by itself on the fly. ?

    Well, it makes sense in my head, anyway, so that’s what I’m going to do.

  58. 58.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl:
    The OJ trial went exactly the way it should have. The police and the prosecutors cheated. Jurors feel that deeply.

    ETA I saw OJ’s Heisman trophy today at USC

  59. 59.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Platonailedit: They’re also using the RNC this way. The RNC is the one paying Keith Schiller, the President’s hitter, $15,000 a month to keep him fat, happy, and quiet.

  62. 62.

    The Midnight Lurker

    I hate the ads too. But I love Balloon Juice. This blog is held together with little more than spit, bailing wire, and a bunch of angry people arguing with each other.
    If Mr. Cole needs ads to keep this rust bucket afloat, so be it. Hell, I’ll click on the ads. I might even buy something if it helps.
    Viva Balloon Juice!

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: Yep. Looks like McCain’s staff wrote the authorization language to only allow the use of the Old Guard and the various Service bands and prohibited everything else. Say what you will about Senator McCain, but he knows how to work a grudge!

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    @efgoldman: A scooter! 3 months is a long time – You said “new scooter” – do you have something in the meantime?

    They pick up a measly 90 bucks? How much do they cost?

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: It’s true that I had a different view of police and prosecutors then than I do now…

    But justice wasn’t served. I believe he killed her, and he got off scott free. There’s no justice in that.

  74. 74.

    The Midnight Lurker

    @NotMax: Don’t sweat it. I never learned phonics so I can’t spell for shit. Everyone in my house corrects my spelling constantly, even the grandchildren. And I’m too lazy to review my post until AFTER I pressed the ‘post’ button. And spel-chek is as useless as peddles on a wheelchair.
    Being from Texas, you would think I would’ve learnt to spell ‘baling wire’ by now. Sheesh.

  75. 75.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Migraines going on 5 decades. They are fun. There have been a number of things figured out to help suppress at least a percentage of them, especially for long term sufferers. So far been on a regimen for a bit over a year and my migraines per month has dropped about 80%. Not bad at all.

  77. 77.

    WaterGirl

    @NotMax: Sorry, communication fail. I didn’t mean that you were giving him a hard time – naked mopping is fair game, after all.

    I was trying to say that while I am not a fan of people seriously giving Cole a hard time about stuff, I was going to say out loud that I think he’s dead wrong on this ad situation and its impact of the site issues and I think he is (unintentionally) jeopardizing what he has created here at BJ.

  78. 78.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    I thought that Jeffrey Toobin’s book about the trial was really good. He explained in a really clear way how and why the LAPD and DA’s office screwed up and how the defense was able to exploit those mistakes.

    Mark Fuhrman was actually a pretty good homicide detective (he found the bloody glove), but he managed to shoot himself in the foot by trying to impress a cute blonde screenwriter with his racist tough-guy stories, all of which turned out to be fake upon investigation.

  83. 83.

    WaterGirl

    @efgoldman: Oh, yay! 90%. You wrote 90$. They should never have put those two right next to each other on the keyboard.

    Stupid question, but does this mean that they aren’t going to be able to resolve your foot issues?

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: It takes 30 days to get the twin .50 caliber machine guns supplied and another 60 days to retrofit the scooter to mount them, then mount them, test them, and test the scooter. You can’t rush this type of thing.//

  87. 87.

    efgoldman

    @WaterGirl:

    does this mean that they aren’t going to be able to resolve your foot issues?

    I said right from the beginning that I’m not going to share details. Going to see a specialist from Brigham and Women’s on Monday

  89. 89.

    efgoldman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It takes 30 days to get the twin .50 caliber machine guns supplied and another 60 days to retrofit the scooter to mount them

    I chose the more compact laser cannons

  94. 94.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    Oh, c’mon, Sister Golden Bear is giving us the up close and personal view of her reassignment surgery and you won’t even give us the inside scoop about your lousy foot? ?

    In case the emoji doesn’t come through: kidding! You don’t have to tell us a thing. I’m just teasing you.

  95. 95.

    lamh36

    The NERVE!

    First of all, Aretha Franklin has ONLY ever performed at Democratic Presidents Inauguration celebrations (going back to Jimmy Carter, which I did not know)

    2nd of all, one of those Presidents was Bill Clinton, why is DA HELL…would she perform at Chump’s inauguration?

    @rachel_dz
    16m16 minutes ago
    More
    According to @swin24 and @maxwelltani, Donald Trump wanted Aretha Franklin to perform at his inauguration; Franklin told associates that no amount of money could compel her to perform for him
    https://twitter.com/rachel_dz/status/1030279105051283456
    .

    THE NERVE!

  96. 96.

    randy khan

    @WaterGirl:

    The last time i had high hopes for the outcome of a jury trial was O.J. Needless to say, that did not go the way I had hoped.

    I sometimes feel like I was the only white person in the U.S. who wasn’t surprised by the verdict in that case. I remember following it and thinking the prosecution was making a simple case much too complicated, and leaving lots of opportunities for the defense to punch holes in it. (There was like a week’s testimony about the driver who picked him up to go the airport.)

    This case isn’t like that. It’s certainly possible that Manafort walks (although I think that’s really unlikely), but it won’t be because the prosecution did a bad job.

  97. 97.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: Franklin told associates that no amount of money could compel her to perform for him

    I love her a little more now

  98. 98.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    Franklin told associates that no amount of money could compel her to perform for him

    Knowing what we do about Ms. Franklin, it’s a good bet that her language was a lot saltier than that. ?

  100. 100.

    efgoldman

    @Mnemosyne:

    You don’t have to tell us a thing. I’m just teasing you.

    I have always thought there’s much too much personal medical information shared among the jackal tariat. Definitely not kidding.

  102. 102.

    randy khan

    @kindness:

    Let’s assume he gets convicted of some fun stuff. Does Trump pull an Arpaio and pardon him before sentencing or after? It’s a given that will happen.

    Given that Trump already has thrown Manafort under a couple of buses, it’s pretty clear he doesn’t love the guy the way he loved Arpaio (and he’s already more or less told the base that Manafort is a nobody who doesn’t matter). I don’t think it’s a given at all.

  103. 103.

    Jay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    7.62’s better, and cheaper. Those on a fixed budget can afford more ammo, and the recoil has a less “propulsive” effect.

    The lighter weight also allows for a sharpened ram.

  107. 107.

    randy khan

    @WaterGirl:

    But justice wasn’t served. I believe he killed her, and he got off scott free. There’s no justice in that.

    I hate that he wasn’t convicted. But in the big picture, justice is best served by a system that forces prosecutors to prove the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and a jury is doing its job when it holds the prosecution to that standard.

  113. 113.

    Aleta

    @WaterGirl: Maybe the site now costs so much to run that the ads are needed? I have no idea, but I think he used to pay for the site mostly out of his own pocket. Speculating: As the site and infrastructure demands grew, did it require a choice–ads, or fees, or tracking/collecting/selling commenter info to companies who’d pay more? I don’t know how they compare financially, but I could see how the latter two would violate more principles than the first.

    It would be interesting/useful to know what a high traffic site like this costs. Does it a lot cost more to have many simultaneous readers, because of whatever you need to pay to keep the site loading fast? Would fewer posts cost less because people would check in fewer times a day? I think he’s very generous in offering space and freedom to post to so many. But in reality I got no idea.

  114. 114.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @WaterGirl: Using a tablet. Have both crome and firefox. Son put crome on yr agò, firefox 2 months ago. Know he put ad blockers on with firefox; apparently didn’t with crome. Won’t read this site with crome because of video ads that block text.

    On some sites use crome because firefox won’t access embedded images and tweets. Because of ad blockers?

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    Everyone has a different comfort level. FWIW, at least half the people at my day job know I have ADHD, and it’s a non-issue. However, people are usually pretty up-front about mental health in entertainment, so I doubt it would be the same level of acceptance if I worked in banking.

  117. 117.

    Wyatt Derp

    @kindness: Best of both worlds for Trump. Manafort won’t talk or make a deal because he is afraid of the Russian mob more than Mueller. That means Trump doesn’t need to pardon him and Manafort can still take the 5th.

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