Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Joe Lieberman disappointingly reemerged to remind us that he’s still alive.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

“woke” is the new caravan.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

A consequence of cucumbers

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Let’s finish the job.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

People are complicated. Love is not.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / WV Rally Open Thread

Reader Interactions

261Comments

  5. 5.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, Daniel Dale (Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star) has anchored his live Twitter thread for Trump’s rally. Recommended!

    Trump is scheduled to speak shortly at a campaign rally in Charleston, West Virginia. Thread starts here.
    — Daniel Dale (@ddale8) August 21, 2018

    C-SPAN is carrying it live, if you want video, and Chris Matthews just said that if Trump says anything about Cohen or Manafort they’ll cut to it.

    And Matthews is leading off with Omarosa!

    In total synchronicity, the last of my tequila and the last of my margarita mix perfectly matched to give me one last drink to celebrate this evening. That never happens!

  6. 6.

    Mike in NC

    Tweety says MSNBC will cut to the hate rally if Fat Bastard does anything of interest, like rant about how innocent his fellow mobsters are. Hopefully he will stroke out on live TV.

    Omarosa is also feeling frisky.

  8. 8.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mike in NC: I’m supposed to get up early tomorrow and do fifty things before lunch, but if that happens I’ll say screw it and run down the block for the most expensive bottle of champagne I can find. I may share it with strangers on the walk back.

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    OT (as an FYI for any interested).

    The leading edge of a vast area of very deep tropical moisture surrounding Lane will overspread the Big Island by Wednesday morning, Maui county by Wednesday night, Oahu by Thursday, and Kauai by late Thursday or Thursday night. Once this occurs, there’s the distinct possibility of intense, flooding rainfall and squalls surrounding Lane.

    There is a considerable amount of uncertainty in the models as to when the deep moisture in the wake of Lane departs. At least one shows modest drying out over the weekend, while the GFS maintain high moisture over the islands into next week…which would of course be troublesome for any areas that get excessive rainfall. The combination of a deep moist unstable layer and strong low level wind shear along and to the east of the track of Lane will make tornadoes and large waterspouts a possibility in rainbands.

    As far as the winds go, the onset of damaging tropical storm force winds on the Big Island could be as early as Wednesday, with dangerous hurricane force winds possible by Wednesday night. On Maui County, damaging tropical storm force winds could begin as early as Wednesday night, with dangerous hurricane force winds possible starting Thursday. Oahu could see damaging winds by Thursday morning, and Kauai by Thursday night. It’s not possible to know who might get the worst of the storm right now, so the best thing to do is to get ready.

    The latest CPHC forecasts continue to show that all islands are at risk from direct effects from the center of Hurricane Lane. Everyone should take this hurricane very seriously and should prepare accordingly. It’s also important to expect that there will need to be future adjustments to the track and intensity forecast, particularly with the challenging recurvature forecast that Lane is presenting. Source

  15. 15.

    Kelly

    Wind from the Pacific has begun to sweep wildfire smoke out of the Willamette Valley just as Mueller has begun to sweep the pollution out of our Government. May both proceed briskly!

  16. 16.

    Mary G

    God, I tried, but I couldn’t make it. They have signs saying “Trump Digs Coal,” while he lies about seven US Steel plants reopened.

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    So you’re there and going to give us a live blog of the action?

    All evidence to the contrary aside, John Cole is not a masochist.

  20. 20.

    lamh36

    @johnrobertsFox
    Follow Follow @johnrobertsFox
    More
    [email protected] attorney @LannyDavis tells @FoxNews “This is just the beginning” and that Cohen will speak with any investigators (including Mueller) “to make sure the truth about @realDonaldTrump gets out”

    6:17 PM – 21 Aug 2018

  21. 21.

    Elizabelle

    @Mary G: It’s possible that tweet about Jimmy Carter is fake. Doesn’t link to anything, and no other source is reporting anything along those lines. (Tweet re JEC is ill again.) I hope it is not true.

  22. 22.

    lamh36

    @timkmak
    Follow Follow @timkmak
    More Tim Mak Retweeted Alison Herman
    Wow. This is just an incredible allegation

    Duncan Hunter wife told him to buy shorts at a golf pro shop “so they could falsely describe the purchase later as ‘some [golf] balls for the wounded warriors.'”

    WOW

  23. 23.

    Steeplejack

    Trump in full dick mode. As Big Jim McBob Justice leaves the podium:

    He’s a big man. He’s all man—six foot eleven. I won’t talk about the weight. I don’t know. I don’t know what the weight is. I won’t go there. But he is a big man, a great man, a wonderful friend of mine.

  26. 26.

    trollhattan

    I’m glad everybody has gone from wrapping paper to gift bags–makes opening all today’s gifts much easier to handle.

  29. 29.

    Steeplejack

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    I’m sure that fat pig Republican Governor Justice doesn’t like being a fat pig—or having it brought to everyone’s attention by fat pig President Trump. But, hey, lie down with fat pigs, get up greasy with lard.

  30. 30.

    lamh36

    Hmmmm…so this was Omarosa’s video:

    @girlsreallyrule
    17m17 minutes ago
    More
    MUST WATCH: Omarosa releases video of Michael Cohen boarding Trump’s plane in Ohio in Sept. 2016-she claims Cohen organized that specific trip and was very involved in the Trump Campaign, contrary to Trump’s statements. #Hardball

  32. 32.

    Steeplejack

    Note for Daniel Dale rookies: when you refresh the rally thread page, all of Dale’s tweets are collected at the top, so you can read them without others’ comments interspersed.

  35. 35.

    Gelfling 545

    I expect that WH staff sent Trump off to his rally tonight with a “do not pardon” reminder pinned to his coat. I hope it works better that their “ do not congratulate “ or “ show empathy” notes did.

  38. 38.

    Gemina13

    This has to be the most surreal day ever. Manager convicted, Cohen pleading guilty, Hunter indicted, and Trump holding another feel-good rally. I’m dying to get back home for chocolate and bourbon. Never thought I’d be too sick to celebrate a Mueller victory, but the smoke in Seattle is killing me.

  41. 41.

    debbie

    Let me know if he brings up Pelosi. She just issued a statement slapping him right back down:

    Today’s guilty verdicts against President Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, and the guilty plea of Trump’s personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, are further evidence of the rampant corruption and criminality at the heart of Trump’s inner circle.

    Cohen’s admission of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in hush money ‘at the direction of the candidate’ to influence the 2016 election shows the president’s claims of ignorance to be far from accurate, and places him in even greater legal jeopardy.

    These convictions are further proof that the special counsel’s team and prosecutors in New York are conducting thorough and professional investigations, which must be permitted to continue free from interference.

    Congressional Republicans’ determination to cover up for the president and his criminal cronies betrays their oath of office and undermines their duty to the American people. House Republicans must abandon their complicity with president Trump and affirm that no one is above the law.

    The Trump administration and congressional Republicans’ unprecedented culture of corruption, cronyism and incompetence is characteristic of the dysfunctional political system in Washington.

    (From The Guardian)

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    Wow, the Hunter indictment is amazeballs. Matt Pearce has snippets in this tweet thread:

    The Rep. Duncan Hunter indictment starts out with a… glum overview of a his finances. pic.twitter.com/corVz85zmM— Matt Pearce ? (@mattdpearce) August 21, 2018

    In seven years they incurred $37,761 in in bank fees for overdrafts and insufficient funds. They bought video games on the campaign credit card, then turned around and claimed that the charges were false. Appears the campaign treasurer sang like a bird, kept warning them against doing all of it and being blown off.

  45. 45.

    pk

    This is very weak sauce. He sounds very dull, unenthusiastic, and boring. But who knows how it sounds to the deplorables.

  47. 47.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, Trump briefly mentions “fake news” and “collusion,” but then he veers back to illegal immigration and MS-13.

  48. 48.

    debbie

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch (via Guardian):

    The US department of justice has released a statement about the Michael Cohen conviction.

    “Michael Cohen is a lawyer who, rather than setting an example of respect for the law, instead chose to break the law, repeatedly over many years and in a variety of ways. His day of reckoning serves as a reminder that we are a nation of laws, with one set of rules that applies equally to everyone,” said Robert Khyzami, attorney for the United States.

    FBI Assistant Director-in-Charge William F. Sweeney Jr. said: “[A]s we all know, the truth can only remain hidden for so long before the FBI brings it to light. We are all expected to follow the rule of law, and the public expects us – the FBI – to enforce the law equally. Today, Mr. Cohen has been reminded of this important lesson, as he acknowledged with his guilty plea.”

  49. 49.

    Jay

    @Gemina13:

    Buy a bunch of HEPA disposable facemasks. Wet they will protect your lungs and nose when outside. Eyedrops will wash the alkaline ash out of your eyes. An inexpensive ionizing air cleaner will clean about 750 sq feet in half an hour.

    It’s the new normal, you’ll need it again next summer.

  50. 50.

    Platonailedit

    @debbie:

    Come on, Nancy.

    The Trump administration and congressional Republicans’ unprecedented culture of corruption, cronyism and incompetence is characteristic of the dysfunctional political system in Washington GOP.

  51. 51.

    geg6

    @debbie:

    The press conference was amaze balls. Never said his name, but Trump was called out and told they will be coming for him. It was great.

  53. 53.

    bluehill

    Boy, look at that stage. Idiocracy wasn’t supposed to be a documentary, but then 1984 wasn’t supposed to be non-fiction either, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  54. 54.

    sukabi

    It’s Tuesday evening, got the rest of the week to go, it’s exhausting and I’m going to run out of popcorn. ?????????????

  55. 55.

    TenguPhule

    @Mary G: 1,100 overdrafts in seven years, no less. And he campaigned on “living within your means” for the federal government AKA spending cuts.

  56. 56.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Gemina13:

    Manager [sic., assume you typed Manafort] convicted, Cohen pleading guilty, Hunter indicted, and Trump holding another feel-good rally.

    What now? Hunter indicted? I’ve obviously managed to miss an important bit of news today.

    Off to Google….

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Josh Marshall @ joshtpm 15m15 minutes ago
    Trump: Country’s market valuation has risen $10 trillion.

    ‘
    from the gif Marshall posted, this was a big applause line, if true. I wonder how many of the hooting howler monkeys own stock, and of those that do, how many have credit card debt that equals, 25, 50, >100% of the value of their holding. Yes, I am one of your liberal, coastal-in-spirit elitists.

  63. 63.

    Emma

    @lamh36: You know, I am gaining a sort of perverse respect for that woman. She plays them all like the fiddle section in the orchestra.

  64. 64.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    scrolling through the older threads, I want to repost this

    A Ghost To Most
    August 21, 2018 at 6:42 pm
    It’s Arrestivus, for the rest of us.

    so that when i steal it I can claim to AGTM that I gave proper attribution

  65. 65.

    khead

    I’m just taking random notes.

    “We’ve got up 10 trillion dollars since the election”
    “One Chevrolet in Berlin” (tariffs)
    “$114K Camaro in China” (tariffs)

  68. 68.

    TenguPhule

    @MisterForkbeard:

    The Justice Department alleged the couple falsely described their purchases in FEC filings as “campaign travel,” “dinner with volunteers/contributors,” or by using other seemingly innocent monikers. They described the payment of their family dental bills as a charitable contribution to “Smiles For Life,” and tickets to see “Riverdance” at the San Diego Civic Theater as “San Diego Civic Center for Republican Women Federated/Fundraising.”

    The indictment also alleges that Hunter spent campaign funds on social outings with another congressman, who is identified only as “Congressman A.” In March 2010, for example, the indictment alleges that Hunter spent more than $120 at Birchmere Music Hall with that congressman and two others, and the next month, Hunter claimed a $256 reimbursement for driving his car on a trip to Virginia Beach with the same group.

    He also spent $238 in December 2013 while watching a San Diego Chargers game at a D.C.-area restaurant with another unnamed congressman, the indictment alleges.

    And not just for himself. Another dirty GOP congressman is implicated.

  69. 69.

    NotMax

    Le sigh.

    Was going to sneak out to get car inspection out of the way. And discovered the battery is too close to dead for it to start. Hooked up to the charger now, but it’ll be too late to head out once that is done.

    (Well, it has been 42 days since last cranked it up to go anyplace.)

  71. 71.

    Platonailedit

    The crowd at Trump's rally is chanting 'lock her up.' I don't believe they are doing it ironically.

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 21, 2018

    trumpturds will never change.

  73. 73.

    Platonailedit

    The first two Republican congressmen to endorse Trump, Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter, are under indictment.

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 21, 2018

    Along with the turd’s entire traitorous campaign team.

  74. 74.

    joel hanes

    @Schlemazel:

    Iowa Co-ed murder

    by an undocumented immigrant. Case already looks pretty airtight;
    suspect led investigators to the body.

    For Iowa, which was already in the throes of deep anti-Mexican hysteria,
    this is the worst possible political news. The Dems hopes of restraining
    the Rs after the midterms are probably toast.

    I mourn for my home state, once a Yankee-culture place that gave the
    nation Tom Harkin in the Senate, and had a liberal and humane Republican
    governor named Robert Ray, and a world-class newspaper in
    The Des Moines Register. All that is gone now.

  76. 76.

    mad citizen

    So was today the end of the beginning and the beginning of the middle?

    Watched a minute of Trump–what a word salad. He can’t even get out one single grammatically correct English sentence.

  79. 79.

    Rustypickup

    Lanny Davis, Cohen’s lawyer specifically names Trump (even though the court documents just say a candidate for federal office). He also said Cohen paid off two women. Strong Daniels is one, who is the other?

  80. 80.

    joel hanes

    @lamh36:

    Wasn’t Duncan Hunter Sr. the one who was openly offered a bribe on the Senate floor (a job or nomination for his son IIRC) during the Republican’s unprecedented Night Of Shenanigans when they passed Medicare Part D ?

  85. 85.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Trump to his supporters: “We’re the smart ones. Remember. I say it all the time: you hear, ‘the elite’…you’re smarter than they are, you have more money than they do…let them have the word elite. You’re the super-elite.”

    when he goes to West Virginia to brag to the 150 hedge fund managers who wrote the tax bill, do those doughty, virtuous racists get that he’s basically mocking them, even if he doesn’t get that?

    Trump on himself and “the elite”: “I’m smarter than they are. I have many much more beautiful homes than they do. I have a better apartment at the top of Fifth Avenue. Why the hell are they ‘the elite?’ …To me, I’m insulted.”

    Yet Brooke Astor never even bothered to answer your invitations, and Van der Luydens were never at home when you called, even that time you saw Louisa through the window

  87. 87.

    Platonailedit

    @JPL:

    I want it to be trumpturd junior. That scum is neck deep in this. Bonus, it will most likely stroke out the traitorous thug.

  88. 88.

    chopper

    @Mary G:

    5 grand a year in NSF fees?! and of course this guy was all talking about how we need a balanced budget and all.

  91. 91.

    Platonailedit

    I went to bed knowing that fucking manafort jury was hung up on only one count, only to wake up and find out it was fucking more than half of the counts. How the fuck did that happen?

    Also, too, fuck that judge.

  92. 92.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Platonailedit: Don’t know how that happened but hopefully the prosecutor will retry him on those ten counts. I assume the jury couldn’t keep track of all the evidence.

  93. 93.

    Platonailedit

    The guilty plea of @realDonaldTrump attorney Michael Cohen, the conviction of Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, and the indictment of GOP Rep. Duncan Hunter reaffirm three principles that are self-evident:

    Truth is truth

    Corruption is corruption

    The law is the law

    — Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) August 21, 2018

  95. 95.

    Mary G

    oh. my. god. pic.twitter.com/DYtRbrPAXZ— Matt Pearce ? (@mattdpearce) August 21, 2018

    Mrs. Hunter as Lady MacBeth – in order to justify spending campaign money on the family trip to Italy, Duncan Hunter tried to set up a tour of a naval base. The Navy could only do it one specific day, Duncan said he would discuss it with Mrs. Hunter, then came back and told his chief of staff to tell the Navy to go f*** themselves, and no tour occurred. Also, he wanted to buy Hawaiian shorts on another trip, but had no money, and she told him to buy them at the hotel pro shop and tell the campaign that they were balls for wounded warriors.

  97. 97.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Patricia Kayden: one of the MSNBC lawyers just pointed out he wasn’t convicted on any of the counts relating to Rick Gates. The defense successfully dirtied him up, is how I think he put it

    they also said the judge is much less likely to be as defense-friendly. I hope Ellis gets some blowback, as I suspect he already has, cause there’s no way that vain old coot doesn’t have some kind of scrapbook and/or folder on his computer of all his press mentions

  98. 98.

    smintheus

    Saw the last 12 minutes of it; seemed to be sticking very closely to script. Almost as if Trump is so desperate now that he’s willing to follow handlers’ instructions.

  102. 102.

    TS (the original)

    @pk:

    But who knows how it sounds to the deplorables.

    he is telling them a series of lies. Steel plants are opening, the wall is being built, WV has a great economy

    People WANT to believe this – so they do. They don’t believe what anyone else says – and this is how trump keeps his ratings at 40%

  105. 105.

    smintheus

    @Patricia Kayden: The jury asked Ellis to give them a simple list of which of the hundreds of documents related to which of the 18 counts. The judge refused and told them to use their memory. That right there virtually guaranteed Manafort would skate on at least a few of the more convoluted charges.

  108. 108.

    Shell

    How does a presidential pardon work? Is it a complete ‘get out of jail card?’ Or does the person have to serve the sentence and then the pardon wipes his record clean.

  109. 109.

    Sister Golden Bear

    It would almost be worth going off the post-surgical pain killers tonight so that I could down a bottle of champagne.

    And I need a cigarette….

    #MakeAlcatrazGreatAgain

  110. 110.

    smintheus

    @TS (the original): I watched a few minutes with a pair of them, my neighbors. They were swallowing all of it. I asked whether Trump had gotten around yet to the subject of all the people around him getting convicted or indicted.

    Being Republicans, they of course immediately changed the subject:

    You mean the 30 or so Obama appointees who just got fired or lost their privileges?

    You can’t reason with that kind of perversity, you can just mock it. Which I did.

  112. 112.

    Yarrow

    Rick Santorum says Trump’s hires weren’t convicted felons when he hired them so how was Trump supposed to know they were “smarmy characters.”

  113. 113.

    Mnemosyne

    @Platonailedit:

    Dude, the counts he did get convicted on will send him to jail for 40 years. And he can be re-tried on the others after his next trial is complete.

    Chill.

  116. 116.

    Mary G

    @smintheus: That seems monumentally bad judging. I’ve been kind of skeptical of the “Judge Ellis is biased” theory, but I’m starting to wonder now.

  118. 118.

    TS (the original)

    @Mary G: One of the tweet replies

    When your legal defense is “living within our means is TOO HARD.” Also these are the same people who think food stamps and healthcare subsidies are going to people who don’t work hard enough and should just “give up their iphone.”

    Rep Duncan defense

  119. 119.

    Schlemazel

    @Patricia Kayden:
    He is 69, the sentence for the 8 will give him all the time he can handle. He still has to go through this again of a different set of charges in VA. They will get him on some of those also unless he finally decides to cave. After that there are state charges that can be brought that even Dump can’t save him from. Maybe that would be part of his deal.

    Not the whole loaf but enough

  123. 123.

    Platonailedit

    Trump is the greatest magnet for corruption the swamp has ever seen. His endorsers, his fixers, his lawyers, his campaign managers, his cabinet members. It is never-ending corruption. And many are being locked up, as the chant goes.

    https://t.co/DIpZNkuQCj— Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) August 21, 2018

  124. 124.

    Bill Arnold

    I see this in the realDonaldTrump twitter feed:

    Bill DeBlasio, the high taxing Mayor of NYC, just stole my campaign slogan: PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT! That’s not at all nice. No imagination! @foxandfriends— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 21, 2018

    There are plenty of prior usages, but this one seemed on topic for today:
    Closing Argument for the Prosecution in the Trial of Timothy McVeigh (May 29, 1997)

    No. 3, that he enlisted at least one coconspirator and attempted to recruit yet another, Michael Fortier, to help him in that criminal act and that he and Terry Nichols acquired and attempted to acquire all of the necessary components to build a massive bomb; that Timothy McVeigh carefully, very deliberately selected his target, the Murrah Building, he surveyed it, and that in April of 1995, he rented the truck, built the bomb, and detonated it against the Murrah Building. That’s the Government’s case. Promises made, promises kept.

    Bold mine. :-)

  125. 125.

    Baud

    Rachel saying prosecutots have to submit their evidence list in the DC Manafort trial tonight.

  127. 127.

    clay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He doesn’t seem to realize that the people he’s complaining about being elite… they don’t self-identify as ‘elite’. He doesn’t seem to know that ‘elite’ is nothing more than a verbal cudgel that conservatives use to dismiss anyone with actual knowledge and experience in a field. It’s just his old insecurities eating away at him.

    Well if he wants to reclaim the word ‘elite’ for himself and his ilk, more power to him. Maybe his dummy followers will all start wearing shirts that say “Proud elitist.”

  128. 128.

    JR

    “I go from a corruptible to an incorruptible Crown, where no disturbance can be, no disturbance in the world.”

  129. 129.

    smintheus

    @Mary G: The request for a list is the simplest of asks. If I had been the jury foreman, I would have sent Ellis a followup note saying

    ‘Ok, since you won’t hand us an exhibit list we’re going to be spending maybe the next week drawing up our own list. When we’re done, we’ll ask you to confirm that our list is accurate. If you won’t do that, then we’re done. Go ahead, start the trial over again from scratch with a new jury. Thanks, and have a nice day.’

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Don’t know how that happened but hopefully the prosecutor will retry him on those ten counts. I assume the jury couldn’t keep track of all the evidence.

    My guess is there were some jurors who didn’t want to convict on some of the counts because:

    1) There was a question about whether Manafort had to report his foreign bank accounts if he didn’t have majority control over them
    2) They agreed he had committed bank fraud but didn’t think he did so as part of a conspiracy
    3) They didn’t think he was committing bank fraud when the bank president knew he was lying on his application but wanted to grant the loan anyway in the hopes of getting in good with Trump

    None of those things seem totally unreasonable to me. I wouldn’t have agreed with the jurors who didn’t want to convict, but I can imagine somebody seeing things that way in good faith.

  133. 133.

    The Gray Adder

    What I would like to see in 2020 is a Democratic campaign ad featuring a 90+ year old European theater WW II vet describing how he feels about Trump bringing the Third Reich back from the dead.

    And then another one captioned “the company you keep” featuring the prosecution team describing the plea deal Cohen took and the crimes he admitted to.

  134. 134.

    smintheus

    @catclub: “Ford pardoned Nixon for all crimes before they even considered prosecution even thinking of nominating his corrupt ass to replace Agnew.”

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    @catclub: Newt Gingrich once proposed that the President could send people out to commit war crimes with pardon already in hand. “Here are your orders, and here’s your pardon,” I believe he phrased it. He thought it was a nifty idea. I don’t think most lawyers think this sounds legit, though.

  142. 142.

    L85NJGT

    @TS (the original):

    US Steel did fired up a blast furnace for as a sop for the idiot, and there were a couple of months where steel manufacturers could middle the tariff market on existing inventory. Now that they have to pay full cost of the tariffs, bye-bye profit margins. The employment situation in WV is really terrible. Less than half of its adult civilians have a job.

  143. 143.

    clay

    @Baud

    prosecutots

    I would watch a tv show called The ProsecuTots. It’s about a group of three-year-olds who use their legal acumen to convict bad guys. Adorable!

  144. 144.

    Jeffro

    @The Gray Adder: if Trumpov is still in office and running for re-election (both of which I very much doubt) in 2020, the Dem ads could just be strings of prominent GOP officials (labeled as such – not just “Trumpov people”) who have been convicted, pled guilty, etc. It doesn’t take much more than that.

    Meanwhile:
    – Megan McCardle is using valuable op-ed space to complain about her refrigerator being replaced
    – Frank Bruni is using valuable op-ed space pretending like Melania is some sort of #MeToo/#Resist uber-feminist

    I am enjoying this life but sometime that meteor seems awwwwwwfully appealing…

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @catclub: @MisterForkbeard: Cohen evaded taxes on $4M, at a 20% tax rate that is $800k stolen from the federal Government.

    and I imagine there’s a big chunk stolen from the New York state gov too, no? are those state crimes included in today’s plea? Because I imagine that would be a big, pardon-proof sword hanging over his head. And from what I’ve heard/read around these cases, New York state prisons are rather unpleasant.

  149. 149.

    Thoughtful David

    @Mary G:
    And yet the campaign treasurer remained the campaign treasurer. Hope he spends some time in the slammer too go failure to report.

  150. 150.

    JMG

    @joel hanes: Try to relax. The people who’ll be set off by this horrible crime are the people who would be equally set off if it hand’t occurred. The belief among liberals that their side must be perfect and have nothing and ever happen has lost a lot more elections than any murder.

  151. 151.

    Platonailedit

    Trump today called a convicted felon, Paul Manafort, a "good man" while calling war hero and career law enforcement officer Robert Mueller "disgraced"

    What universe are Trump supporters living in. Any idea?

    — Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) August 21, 2018

  152. 152.

    TS (the original)

    @smintheus:

    You can’t reason with that kind of perversity

    Which is one of the few things that trump understands. He has spent his life “winning” with lies. He does it as president* and the GOP in congress stand by and laugh.

  158. 158.

    ExpatDanBKK

    @Baud: Thanks. Certainly better news than the usual “what did that idiotic orange bastard do now” thoughts over coffee and a cigar!

  159. 159.

    Mary G

    A federal judge has issued arrest warrants for Rep. Duncan Hunter and his wfie, who were indicted today on charges that include fraud and conspiracy. pic.twitter.com/uZ8B0qYGZN— Brad Heath (@bradheath) August 22, 2018

    Is this normal? Seems like rich white defendants always get to turn themselves in or surrender.

  161. 161.

    Martin

    CA-50 was one of the few races here that was likely-R. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that’s gonna move a bit soon.

    Good lord shit got real today. The things you miss when you bury your head in TI8 matches.

  164. 164.

    TS (the original)

    @L85NJGT:

    US Steel did fired up a blast furnace for as a sop for the idiot,

    And this becomes seven steel makers starting up new business? I worked for a steel maker many moons ago – It takes months to fire up a blast furnace (staff used to have to keep them burning if there was a strike on the plant) – so even that move by US steel wouldn’t have generated any usable steel. Did they get the coke ovens running as well?

  166. 166.

    Martin

    @Mary G: The judiciary is not ignorant of or unaffected by the national pulse. I can’t imagine there is much compassion left from judges against Trump and the national GOP. If they’re going to proclaim all facts as being fake and all efforts at accountability being some kind sort of deep state conspiracy, I think they can assume the courtesies are now a thing of the past. Personally, I think we need to start seeing these folks getting frog-marched through the streets before it starts to sink in that this might all be real.

  175. 175.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @TenguPhule:

    And not just for himself. Another dirty GOP congressman is implicated.

    Hold yer horses there, Sparky. How was “Congressman A” supposed to know the source of the $$$ DHJr was throwing around? And even if he did, how could you prove it? Even if Hunter said something like This Musik Hall outing is brought to you by funds I’ve stolen from my re-election campaign – & you could prove that – Congressman A replies, Well yeah, he said that, but I figured it had to be just a bad joke on his part, because we all know that’s illegal!

  176. 176.

    Mary G

    I've been saying "Wow" since about 4 o'clock this afternoon, and have yet to stop.— Dan Rather (@DanRather) August 22, 2018

    Also, too, Jake Tapper is tweeting the clip from Animal House where the unbelievably young Kevin Bacon is shouting “Remain calm, all is well” as the crowd runs past him in all directions.

  178. 178.

    MoxieM

    Here’s a question for the lawyers amongst us: with the (obvious to not-lawyers) seemingly excessive criticism of the prosecution lawyers, by the judge in the Manafort case, what happens if they are assigned the same judge for the second trial?

    Can the prosecution team do anything to request another judge? Or is it automatic that they get the same “quirky” “brilliant” “eccentric” [interfering] for the second trial? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks

  179. 179.

    different-church-lady

    I’m pretty sure the show runners are just about to revert to the “It was all just a dream” trope.

  183. 183.

    Another Scott

    ICYMI, BooMan at WaMo today:

    […]

    As I’ve said many times before, if Michael Cohen went to Prague, Trump will be removed from office. Four months ago, McClatchy journalists Peter Stone and Greg Gordon reported the following:

    The Justice Department special counsel has evidence that Donald Trump’s personal lawyer and confidant, Michael Cohen, secretly made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

    Confirmation of the trip would lend credence to a retired British spy’s report that Cohen strategized there with a powerful Kremlin figure about Russian meddling in the U.S. election.

    It would also be one of the most significant developments thus far in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of whether the Trump campaign and the Kremlin worked together to help Trump win the White House. Undercutting Trump’s repeated pronouncements that “there is no evidence of collusion,” it also could ratchet up the stakes if the president tries, as he has intimated he might for months, to order Mueller’s firing.

    Donald Trump better pray that Peter Stone and Greg Gordon were catastrophically wrong in their reporting, because Cohen is going to spill the beans now on what really happened.

    […]

    What’s that saying? Tick Tock? Something like that. ;-)

    If that report is true, it’s clear why the Teabaggers and Donnie’s Minions have been so desperate to discredit Steele’s Dossier.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  186. 186.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MoxieM: they get the next judge in the pipeline when and of they refile. That being said, i don’t think the judge was a problem. Federal judges can be like that.

  187. 187.

    Jeffro

    Would just like to remind everyone that Fox opened its 8 o’clock segment with 3 seconds about Manafort, 3 seconds about Cohen, and then over 15 straight minutes about a white college girl who allegedly was killed in the Midwest by an illegal immigrant

    Trumpov opened his WV speech with slams on the NFL, carried on endlessly about blessed ICE the saviors of all that is good and true in our country, and went on and on about Cuomo’s “America Was Never Great” comment.

    I’m going bat shopping in the morning. Time to stock up!

  188. 188.

    different-church-lady

    @Another Scott:

    What’s that saying? Tick Tock? Something like that. ;-)

    It may not be midnight, but I do believe that clock just struck an hour.

  189. 189.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    John Harwood @ JohnJHarwood
    Lanny Davis, on Rachel Maddow, suggests strongly that his client Michael Cohen has information for Mueller on Trump campaign collusion with Russia and Trump’s knowledge of plans for Russian hacking before the hacking occurred

    and on CNN, Davis also suggests Cohen has information to offer about Trump wrongdoing for NY authorities investigating Trump foundation

    I’m a little obsessed with NYS charges, because there’s no promise/threat of pardon, and also with Trump Org/Trump Fndn stuff, because that’s where Junior, Lucrezia and Fredo II get caught up in stuff. Also FL, NJ, CA, NV and IL….

  191. 191.

    Schlemazel

    “Alex, I’ll take ‘Republican Congressmen from California Whose First Name Begins with D’ for $100.”

    “The bigot.”

    *bzzzz*

    “Who is Doug LaMalfa?”

    “Correct.”

    “‘Republican Congressmen from California Whose First Name Begins with D’ for $200.”

    “The obstructor of justice.”

    *bzzzz*

    “Who is Devin Nunes?”

    “Correct.”

    “‘Republican Congressmen from California Whose First Name Begins with D’ for $300.”

    “The Russian stooge.”

    *bzzzz*

    “Who is Dana Rohrabacher?”

    “Correct.”

    “‘Republican Congressmen from California Whose First Name Begins with D’ for $400.”

    “The car thief.”

    *bzzzz*

    “Who is Darrell Issa?”

    “Correct.”

    “‘Republican Congressmen from California Whose First Name Begins with D’ for $500.”

    “The embezzler.”

    *bzzzz*

    “Who is Duncan Hunter?”

    “Correct.”

  192. 192.

    tobie

    I’ve been wondering today whether Cohen’s plea and Manafort’s conviction would change Simona Mangiante Papadopoulos’ attitude toward the Special Counsel. Judging by this evening’s tweet, I’d say not. She seems to think that George Papadopoulos can still get out of his plea deal with Mueller. What is she aiming for? A pardon from Trump?

    @simonamangiante
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    Is that a sin in this country to support @realDonaldTrump .?Nobody should be judged for its political views #fundamentalrights but I read many bad comments because of my hat #MAGA

  195. 195.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Gelfling 545: Got back Friday afternoon, have been a bit wiped out from jet lag, and 24 hours of travel door to door. Also, even with flying business class with the seats that fold down into beds, there was far too much sitting, and that caused some temporary setbacks healing-wise.

    But turned the corner today and feeling much better. Taking medical leave until mid-September to heal up more — and hopefully by then I’ll be able to sit most of the day. Thankfully the office just remodeled, so my new desk can be raised to work standing up if need be.

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @TS (the original):
    You know they fired up enough to have some molten to pour, didn’t have to be anything, they weren’t going to use it anyway and dipshit wouldn’t know the difference in any event.

  199. 199.

    Chyron HR

    @tobie:

    1) Republicans literally use “liberal” as an epithet, and even if that wasn’t the case
    2) OF COURSE YOU CAN BE JUDGED FOR YOUR OPINIONS YOU ASSHOLE!

  201. 201.

    catclub

    @Mary G:

    Seems like rich white defendants always get to turn themselves in or surrender.

    Looks like Hunter was much less rich than you thought, and was not able to hire an expensive ( but maybe worth it) lawyer.

  209. 209.

    MoxieM

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. I wonder how much info about the gestalt of the Federal courts jurors get. (Meaning, do jurors know that Federal judges have a lot of latitude to guide the path of the trial, as well as the procedure.) I’ve only served in a State jury pool; we learned nothing, and were herded from here to there by the Sheriff or whomever with no explanation.

  210. 210.

    NotMax

    To all those shouting “Hurry up!” at Mueller over the past year, today’s events demonstrate why meticulous is the better course.

    Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

  211. 211.

    Mary G

    Gabriel Sherman spilling lots of tea in Vanity Fair. Apparently Don McGahn hates Rudy Giuliani with the heat of a thousand suns, and has taken copious notes of every interaction with Twitler, and refuses to give details to Twitler’s lawyers. Also:

    Trump’s frustration with Sessions has even caused him to turn on Giuliani. Over the weekend, Trump blamed Giuliani for the entire Russia probe. According to a person to whom the conversation was described, Trump loudly said to his lawyer: “It’s your fault! I offered you attorney general, but you insisted on being secretary of state. Had I picked you none of this would be happening.” (The White House declined to comment.)

  212. 212.

    Schlemazel

    @catclub:
    Had a law class years ago taught by the former County Att. At the time there was a high profile murder trial and the defendant hired a high profile lawyer with a history of winning. One moron in class said “Well you know she is guilty, look sho her lawyer is!”. The Attorney stopped the class and gave a short speech that ended with “If you EVER find yourself in a position where you might lose your freedom you are a fool if you do not get the very best lawyer you can afford. Mortgage your house if you have to but don’t cheap out!”

    The high profile guy was Ron Meshbesher, Our prof had been a law school classmate & when he was deposed over some COunty fraud issue Ron was his lawyer. Oddly, Ron became an ambulance chaser with slimey TV ads the last 20 years. He just died a few months back

  214. 214.

    Schlemazel

    @catclub:
    It actually came from JMN, he used to be a semi-regular here but now avoids the place. He was put off by people wanting to give Franken the benefit of the doubt. It stressed out friendship a bit too

  215. 215.

    Elizabelle

    We can haz fresh thread?

    I’d be good with another photo of Rosie, or Thurston, or any Cole (lucky) pet.

  218. 218.

    Schlemazel

    @MoxieM:
    I was on a Federal jury & we were given no information. I didn’t see much difference from my time on district court juries. In many ways jurors learn less about what is going on that anyone else. We would get suttled out & in while everyone else discussed the case (or were they really talking about me behind my back?)

  219. 219.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Also slightly oddly, it was the recurring theme for the 1995 Ghibli film, “Whisper of the Heart”.

    Not even Trump can spoil that for me.

  220. 220.

    Omnes Omnibus

    OT: The last time I got a new phone was when I bought an iPhone3 in 2010. On Sunday, it began to go mad. Today, I replaced it with an iPhone SE.* I went from 3G to LTE. Maybe the blog will work decently again on my phone. I lost a couple of apps that i apparently ordered under my ex’s apple id, but I can reclaim them.

    *I don’t like giant phones, and I am not an early adopter.

  223. 223.

    Ruckus

    @catclub:
    Was going to say, Duncan isn’t rich. He thought he was. He spent money like he was. But he wasn’t. Not even close.
    Someone mentioned his campaign finance manager telling him he couldn’t do that, I wonder if he’s who turned Duncan in, maybe not wanting to be charged himself.

  224. 224.

    Barbara

    @catclub: These lowlifes charged their WATER bill to the campaign after the county threatened to cut off their service due to nonpayment. He charged his racetrack gambling trips to his campaign. And they paid for a lot of trips for extended family members. At one point, the wife complained to the campaign treasurer that the daily limit on the campaign credit card should be higher than $1000. Oh, the coup de grace: they charged the campaign for their children’s tuition to — wait for it — a private Christian school. They also spent much dinero on “dance competitions” for a family member, likely, Irish dancing for their daughter (based on spending $1000 for many family members to attend a RiverDance performance. The whole indictment is like that, page after page of individual charges to the campaign.

    Apparently Mrs. Hunter didn’t realize that the treasurer would look at the statement and that the actual receipts were easily discovered.

  227. 227.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Martin:

    I can’t imagine there is much compassion left from judges against Trump and the national GOP.

    There’s a lot from the judges he recently appointed, surely. He’s been packing the judiciary with allies with great speed–it’s the one thing Trump seems serious about doing.

  228. 228.

    Yarrow

    @Barbara: That’s a lot of entitlement right there. They thought they could do whatever they wanted, laws and ethics be damned, and no worries about getting caught.

  229. 229.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Ruckus: I saw in an earlier thread that Duncan Hunter averaged $5k/yr in *bank fees* for overdrafts and bounced checks. That is fucking amazing.

  230. 230.

    MoxieM

    @Schlemazel: heh. yes, exactly.

    One time we were held all day in a windowless room–turns out we were the leverage for some dumb kid who had stolen a car. “Look kid, we have a jury ready to go. You don’t really want to go to trial”… etc. a la Law & Order. Of course we, the jury, knew nuthin’, nuthin’ at all.

  231. 231.

    Yarrow

    A source close to the WH says the Cohen plea deal “sounds terrible for the president.” A gop congressional source says top party leaders and staffers are “trying to catch their breath” in response to the day’s news @Acosta— Shimon Prokupecz (@ShimonPro) August 22, 2018

    No kidding to the first point and I’ll bet to the second point. I’m guessing they hope this is as bad as it gets. LOL. Nope. Sorry guys, the time for speaking out against this administration has passed. The treason train has left that station and you’re on it.

  235. 235.

    Brickley Paiste

    @MoxieM:
    I don’t know anything about how that district does things, but my husband was on the ND of California grand jury recently and they all received a 1/2 day orientation by someone trained to do that job before their actual service began answering questions about payment, parking, bathroom breaks, notes, order of evidence at trial, etc. Very thorough. My state court experience on several juries in the SF Bay Area is that it all depends on the judge. Some give patient, thorough explanations of things, others never even address except to order them to do something. No wonder that jury outcomes are so unpredictable.

  237. 237.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Yarrow: A gop congressional source says top party leaders and staffers are “trying to catch their breath” in response to the day’s news

    And Ivanka’s asking Jared to ask Abbe Lowell if she can flip without Daddy knowing and keep the place in Aspen

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    @Gin & Tonic:
    It amazes me in that the banks kept his account(s) open. Normally 5K in fees per year would be highly questionable and cause most banks to close the account. Of course he was making the payments with, wait for it, campaign donations, so he didn’t give a shit about the money, the bank was charging him a bundle and he was glad to pay them so they didn’t care.
    Yeah, I’m going with fiscal responsibility my ass along with the rest of you.

  240. 240.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Wow, I thought I had lost my capacity four outrage over the past months of Trump, but goddamn, that is shocking.

    I literally caught my breath when I read it, it was so visceral.

  242. 242.

    randy khan

    @Thoughtful David:

    And yet the campaign treasurer remained the campaign treasurer. Hope he spends some time in the slammer too go failure to report.

    I saw somewhere that it was the treasurer who turned them in. Don’t know if it’s true, though.

  243. 243.

    LAO

    @Omnes Omnibus: In the SDNY and EDNY you keep the same judge for the re-trial. That being said, I agree that Judge Ellis was a typical federal judge, nothing he did was particularly outragous.

  245. 245.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Ruckus: Are you kidding?

    That is how consumer banks make their money. Hell, several of the large ones: B of A, Wells Fargo, Citi, all process the day’s check’s and debits from largest and smallest. That way, if you write $1,000 in checks consisting of one check for $900 and a dozen for five or ten bucks but only have $899 dollars in your account, every single check after the first one will trigger an overdraft charge.

    This makes, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars for the big banks every single year.

  247. 247.

    Ruckus

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Come on, that’s too easy. He’s a republican house member, he endorsed shitgibbon early, he’s been stealing from an account where the money is given to him for a particular purpose – which is distinctly and legally not spending it upon himself and family, and you think he gives even a quarter of a shit about anyone but himself? Hell I’d bet he has a card in his wallet that says, One for all and all for me. Of course he’s going to endorse shitgibbon, he’s just like him, with perhaps a $1.95 less to his name.

  248. 248.

    frosty

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Today, I replaced it with an iPhone SE.

    I hate to say it after a few Motorolas and LGs, but I like the SE. My main criterion was that my phone has to fit in the watch pocket of my Levis. This one does.

    (Yay! Nym stuck finally!)

  252. 252.

    Sherparick

    @khead: Yep, & Lock Her Up & build that g-d wall. Meanwhile, beneath the Sturm & Drang, the Republican donor class is very happy as they Hoover up the wealth of the country by cutting taxes, environmental regulations, & worker rights.

  253. 253.

    Ruckus

    @randy khan:
    Hope you aren’t using my comment because I was just wondering as well. I have no info, but it seemed the treasurer knew there were major problems and if that had been me I’d want to make sure that the Feds didn’t think in any way that I was involved. Of course you couldn’t pay me enough to work for a shithead like duncan.
    But also I’d think that if he did turn in good ole duncan, the Feds would have asked him to stay on so they could catch him in the act.

  254. 254.

    frosty

    @Omnes Omnibus: It was tough finding a case that didn’t make it too big, too. I went with a Spigen, forget the model but I think it had “slim” in the name.

  257. 257.

    catclub

    @Mary G:

    Trump loudly said to his lawyer: “It’s your fault! I offered you attorney general, but you insisted on being secretary of state.

    wow. I thought Giuliani did not get DOJ because he was so bad that Trump refused to name him to it.

  258. 258.

    catclub

    @Ruckus:

    Hell I’d bet he has a card in his wallet that says, One for all and all for me. Of course he’s going to endorse shitgibbon, he’s just like him,

    Every day that Wilbur Ross does not get indicted for some financial crime is a good day for Wilbur Ross. I hope that jumping into the Trump spotlight works as well for him as it did for Manafort.

  259. 259.

    cmorenc

    @A Ghost To Most:

    @Platonailedit:
    Eight guilty verdicts across all the crime classes. The others can be retried if needed. This is a WIN!

    It’s actually better for credibility of the trial result that the jury did convict on eight counts while not convicting on ten of the counts – because that makes it very hard for Manafort or Trump to credibly claim Manafort did not get a fair jury or that they didn’t carefully examine the evidence or that they somehow got bamboozled by the prosecutors. Likewise, it’s better in retrospect that Judge Ellis came across as harder on the prosecutor team than the defense team.

    Notice that the main thrust of GOP / Fox commentators tonight re: Manafort is that this case has nothing to do with Russia, and not that Manafort is an innocent man who’s been railroaded by a kangaroo court. In short, the thrust is to distance Trump from Manafort, not to distance Manafort from wrongdoing.

  261. 261.

    Gemina13

    Two new definitions of MAGA that my friends are passing around:

    MAGA = “My Attorney Got Arrested” and “My Attorney’s Going Away.”

    I offered one: “My Attorney Got Alotatime.” Yeah, I know; but considering most MAGAts’ literacy is in question to begin with . . .

    And Duncan Hunter has been indicted, with the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver removing him from his committee posts. Gee, you’d think the guy was on campaign or something. ::evil grin::

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