In the morning thread, valued commenter Jeffro shared this video of Beto O’Rourke’s answer to a question about NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem. O’Rourke’s answer is pitch-perfect, IMO:
Now, when someone asks me if it pisses me off when rich athletes disrespect the flag and veterans, I’m more apt to reply, “No, but it pisses me off when grown-ass adults parrot Trump’s self-serving, racist-ass talking points, ignoring the fact that the players have explained exactly why they’re protesting a million times already. It pisses me off that people are credulous and racist enough to believe that a corrupt, loud-mouthed plutocrat who shits in a golden toilet is the champion of the working man but can’t fathom that highly paid black athletes, who probably get pulled over in their Maseratis every three blocks, would want to champion racial justice in a country where they’re barely treated as human. THAT pisses me off.”
Beto’s way is better. He acknowledges the good faith of people on the opposite side — not necessarily because they deserve it (they don’t) but because then maybe they’ll HEAR him. He invokes the fundamental values we’re all supposed to share — not necessarily because his questioner gives a rat’s ass about that but because it’s an aspirational message no one can publicly oppose without looking like a giant asshole. And he gives a mini-seminar on the history of peaceful protest in this country, leading to the undeniable conclusion that peaceful protest is as American as apple fucking pie.
That’s why Beto O’Rourke is an excellent politician, and your humble correspondent is not. What talent the man has — and Kennedy-esque good looks too. His race against the horrible Ted Cruz is a long shot because Texas, but here’s a link to Beto’s ActBlue account if you want to help out.
PS: CNN is reporting that the DNC called the FBI yesterday “after it detected what it believes was the beginning of a sophisticated attempt to hack into its voter database…” Here we go again.
schrodingers_cat
Go Beto go.
zhena gogolia
I thought his eloquent, unscripted answer was Obama-level stuff.
Platonailedit
Guts and tact. Obamaesque.
Vidya Pradhan
Inspired me to donate…what a wonderful answer.
Platonailedit
un-indicted co-conspirator. Bam.
Elizabelle
Good to see this.
Beto and Elizabeth Warren, reminding us smart and ethical is better.
LAO
@zhena gogolia: I loved his answer too and I think Beto would make a phenomenal Senator but no way was that answer unscripted. I’m sure he thought long and hard about how to answer that question before it was ever posed.
A Ghost To Most
@Platonailedit:
Even Mrs. Greenspan is using it.
Sandia Blanca
Betty, I absolutely agree with Beto’s answer, and am a proud supporter (with both yard sign and bumper sticker, even!), but let us never disparage the linguistic and persuasive skills of our “humble correspondent”! If I could memorize your answer, I’d use it! Thanks.
LAO
@LAO: And if I could edit a comment, I’d add — I’m glad he’s thought about the issues that potential voters want addressed. It shows he’s thoughtful as well as smart.
Platonailedit
@LAO: Foresight? Still better.
waratah
I followed a link to his Facebook, and that was the first time I watched videos of him. I had the same excited feelings I had when I watched Bill Clinton and Obama the first time.
zhena gogolia
@LAO:
I just meant he wasn’t reading a text. Even if you’ve thought about it, it’s not easy to deliver such a complex answer so smoothly, as I’m sure you know!
FelonyGovt
Too bad that as a Texas Dem he doesn’t have a clear path to eventually running for President. (Although if he knocks off the loathsome Cruz he would!) He’d be a good one.
tobie
Wow. He’s good.
Platonailedit
People who say, but this is Texas, need to remember Ala-fucking-bama. This cycle is up for grabs.
Thoroughly Pizzled
That was a phenomenal response. I envy his patience and eloquence.
TaMara (HFG)
I’ve been watching him for months. Even if he loses his bid to unseat Cruz, he’s going places and if we let him, he’s going to make government better.
Kay (not the front pager)
I want to be able to vote for this man. I don’t live in TX. Maybe he can run for VP in 2020?
Betty Cracker
He even skateboards!
Can you imagine Ted Cruz trying that?
Tokyokie
@Platonailedit: Beto is within the margin of error in the latest polls I’ve seen. It’s not merely that the cycle is up for grabs, it’s also that nobody likes Ted Cruz. The proportion of eligible voters in the predominantly Hispanic Rio Grande Valley who vote has traditionally been frightfully low. Beto could be the candidate who finally gets them to turn out, and when that happens, Texas will no longer be a deep red state.
LAO
@zhena gogolia: He is such a winner, it’s a shame he lives in Texas.
CliosFanBoy
“the DNC called the FBI yesterday “after it detected what it believes was the beginning of a sophisticated attempt to hack into its voter database…”
GRU again? keep in mind we keep detecting GRU doing the hacking. Then remember than generally speaking, KGB (now SVR and FSB) was almost more sophisticated than GRU. (although the latter were usually pretty darn good)
zhena gogolia
@LAO:
I think it’s great he lives in Texas!
Bostonian
I love this guy. He is full-on excellent, and we need more like him, please. What an orator, what a diplomat. He eloquently explains what we believe America should be about. Go Beto!
Platonailedit
@zhena gogolia: Exactly. He might break the swamp fever in that state.
Matt
So far beyond sick of this nonsense. They’re racist garbage, and the only thing they should be hearing is “STFU YOU RACIST GARBAGE”. They hear him just fine, they just prefer to be white supremacists.
Bostonian
And yeah, moved to donate. Which I don’t do very often.
His average donation is 33 bucks. I can be average today.
Belafon
A cousin of mine posted on facebook asking why should we vote for a man who 1) goes by Beto to sound more Latino, and 2) a man with a mugshot. I had to laugh at both of them.
Platonailedit
@Tokyokie: Yup, if dems turnout, and it looks like they will, the canadian is toast.
JPL
@LAO: OT Since Trump Org signed off to phony invoices for Cohen, how much liability do they hold? Southpaw has a tease up.
JPL
@Platonailedit: If only!!!!
Josie
This is just one example of the reasons I love this man. He truly is the real deal. He and Jason Kander are two of my favorite politicians. Win or lose, Beto will be all right. This won’t be the only time he runs for office and helps Texas to move ahead.
CliosFanBoy
@CliosFanBoy: that should have read “almost always more sophisticated ” not “almost more” argh
geg6
@Platonailedit:
@A Ghost To Most:
Those two words, “unnidicted co-conspirator,” have never sounded so sweet since the first time I heard them when I was 15 years old.
TenguPhule
Republican Party: “You rang?”
rikyrah
It was a great response ??
mr gravity
@LAO: Not to split hairs but it’s possible to be prepared and unscripted at the same time.
Josie
@Josie:
ETA: Where is the edit button?!? Just to say – I have very little extra money in my budget, but I donate regularly to Beto, something that is rare for me.
Miss Bianca
It’s a great answer to a question that shouldn’t even be FUCKING ASKED. It’s just depressing as shit to me to see a bright, articulate guy have to even answer a question that just, once again, shows how Americans are willing to fixate on the symbols of our “freedom”, and conflate them with the substance. Over and over and fucking over again.
Which is why, like BC, I can admire and applaud, knowing that I too would be a shitty politician. Because I’d be all like, “Are you fucking kidding me?! Why would I be fucking OFFENDED by someone exercising a peaceful right to protest racial injustice?”
TenguPhule
@Matt:
FTFY.
rikyrah
@Platonailedit:
Bravo, Senator Mazie ?? ?
mr gravity
@LAO: And if I could edit a comment I would add – This is how the best jazz music is created.
Amir Khalid
@LAO:
The fact that O’Rourke anticipated the question and gave a carefully thought-out answer reflects well on him. I am impressed.
lollipopguild
@LAO: Smart politicians think about questions that they may be asked so that they can have an answer ready when the time comes. Having core values/beliefs that are yours and not the creation of some consultant can also help you answer tough questions when they get asked.
Martin
Said while Duncan Hunter was buying Hawaiian shorts and passing it off as a charitable donation to wounded vets.
LAO
@JPL: The Trump Organization may be in trouble — which is probably, if I really try to game play this out, is how Trump exits the presidency. I have to think on this.
Ian G.
@Platonailedit:
Amen. I think I saw after Doug Jones won that Cruz is actually less popular in Texas than Roy Moore was in Alabama. This. Is. A. Winnable. Race.
More to the point, Cruz’s scalp would be the most enjoyable of symbolic and real victories. There are few Republicans whose gilded skull I would more want to sip brandy out of (metaphorically speaking) than Ted fucking Cruz.
Betty Cracker
@Matt: The questioner was at a Beto O’Rourke rally, so maybe he’s reachable. He asked his question — whether sincerely or imagining it was a clever “gotcha” I don’t know — but in either case, he got a powerful, eloquent answer. I sure as hell don’t advocate chasing Trumpster votes, but if persuasion was 100% impossible, nothing would ever change, right? And O’Rourke is running in Texas; he can’t write off any votes.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
Not only can I imagine it, I dream of it. And me driving an F250 with a cow pusher front bumper and a skid plate.
“I swear, officer! He came outta nowhere! And I just wanted some onion rings!”
OFFICER: “Anyone here witness this event?”
CROWD: “Just like he sez, officer. Outta nowhere. Nothing else to be done.”
SiubhanDuinne
He’s really inspiring and thoughtful and easy. Very Obamaesque.
Just heard they’ve evacuated Arlington National Cemetery because of a bomb threat. I absolutely cannot understand the mindset of someone who would do that — either plant an actual bomb or convey a threat (even if a hoax). Hope everyone in the vicinity is safe (even with a general evacuation, NO WAY are they leaving the Tomb of the Unknowns unguarded). Hope it turns out to be nothing.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Are we sure that the call about the threat didn’t originate in the White House.
realbtl
Because of old family ties I have been following Beto O’Rourke for a while and kicking in the odd C note. My friends in El Paso assure me he is the real deal.
Jeffro
Thanks for posting this, Betty.
I’m donating $100 now and then more once I get double-secret permission from the Mrs.
HRA
I do understand how Beto O’Rourke is able to put those words together in a reply. It has been months of unrelenting attacks against the athletes from the WH to his followers in making these terrible assertions . It is beginning to swell up again as the football season nears.
Jeffro
Btw I still cannot believe this scummy Duncan Hunter and his wife, passing off their luxury expenses as “donations to wounded warriors“. Learn to live within your means like the rest of us, jackasses!!
Calouste
@lollipopguild: Anyone who goes to a job interview should think in advance about questions that could be asked, and for politicians, campaigning is the job interview.
JPL
@Jeffro: Is she watches the video, I imagine Beto will get another donation.
Jeffro
Btw for future discussion: Paul Waldman takes a minute to note that while Trumpov’s chickens may be coming home to roost, the system has already clearly failed.
As Adam and others have pointed out before, even if/when Trumpov & Co go to jail, there is no going back to the ‘old normal’. We will have to create a new and stronger one if we hope to save this republic
TenguPhule
@Ian G.:
But think about how much brandy his actual skull could hold!
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
The questioner clearly holds a viewpoint on kneeling for the SDB that is 180° removed from most/all of us here. But he asked the question politely and, I think, in all sincerity. It didn’t sound to me that he was being a dick or trying to get a rise out of Beto. Don’t know whether his, or anyone else’s, mind was changed, but the entire exchange gave me optimism.
waratah
I noticed watching Beto is that he is great with all ages. I feel good about him winning this race now he is getting a lot more air time in Texas and nationally.
zhena gogolia
@mr gravity:
Right.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Cannot edit. “SDB” should be “SSB,” of course. I would have saved time if I had just typed “The Star-Spangled Banner,” or “the Anthem.”
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
The question was constructed in a way that had me thinking he was a plant. But maybe that’s just me.
In our lifetimes we’ve seen Governor Ann Richards, so I suppose anything is possible even in Texas. IIUC they’ve been veddy busy with voter suppression but maybe dispirited Rs will sit home in November. Nobody’s “Doin’ it for Ted.”
Martin
@Corner Stone: Does Texas allow you to stand your ground with an F-250? That seems like a given.
A Ghost To Most
@Corner Stone:
My fantasy is Cruz tied and skating behind me on Imogene Pass.
PJ
@Miss Bianca: Most people can’t be bothered to think, they let other people do their thinking for them, which is why Fox and similar outfits circulate Republican racist talking points that taking a knee during the National Anthem means that protestors hate veterans, because they know that morons and racists will lap it up. The National Anthem isn’t played to salute veterans (we have a holiday for that), and it isn’t played to salute the flag, it’s played to remind us that we are Americans, and the kneeling players remind us that being American means we all have a right to not have our lives taken away without due process of law. But morons will always get more worked up about “disrespect” to the flag or the song or veterans or whatever because they don’t care about what this country stands for or the rights of others, they only care about themselves.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Shiny! Distraction!
Bomb threatSquirrel!!trollhattan
@Jeffro:
Come on now, “Living within your means” is for little people. We have a president who has never once considered doing that and (as if we’ll ever see the tax returns) is doubtless in debt up to and past his eyeballs. Hunter wants to be him.
TenguPhule
@Martin:
Its not considered a felony to run over Ted Cruz with a vehicle. Provided you remember to stop and render aid.
TenguPhule
Hurricane lane dropped to a Cat 4 Hurricane, me and Notmax will probably get through this okay. Barring any last minute sudden change in direction like Iniki its projected to just sideswipe the Hawaiian islands around the weekend.
But its going to be very very close.
Aardvark Cheeselog
More like this, please.
Ridnik Chrome
In (almost) any other state this race wouldn’t even be close; O’Rourke would be kicking Tailgunner Ted’s ass.
Aleta
Congress members who were T’s first backers
1st, 2nd: Reps. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) and Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.)
(Backed in Feb 2016)
3rd: Sessions
4th, 5th: Reps. Scott DesJarlais (R-Tenn.) and Tom Marino (R-Pa.)
The earliest endorsements must have been worth a lot to T and company. Wonder what they offered/paid to close this deal.
Huffpo lists the charges or other recognized badness awarded each of them. So far.
A Ghost To Most
@TenguPhule:
Best of luck to both of you. A hurricane on an island doesn’t give you much room to maneuver.
Betty Cracker
@Jeffro: Ever since we collectively realized that, as someone on Twitter put it, our government is run on the honor system, I’ve been thinking about what customs and traditions will have to be codified to make sure Trump could never happen again. It’s gonna be a very long list.
Aleta
@Aleta: that is, first members of Congress to say they supported him
low-tech cyclist
To Beto’s excellent response, I would add that the flag belongs to all of us, not just military and veterans. It symbolizes all of our rights and freedoms, including our First Amendment right of free speech, which the kneeling NFL players are availing themselves of when they kneel during the National Anthem.
Availing oneself of the rights symbolized by the flag can’t possibly be disrespectful of the flag. End of story.
(If I keep saying stuff like this, people might think I’m a patriot or something, so I’d better shut up now.)
Corner Stone
@Martin:
Well, of course we do have Castle Doctrine. And in Texas a man’s farm truck is indeed his castle. So I think that with witness testimony that he came outta nowhere, attacked me like a rabid, oily faced possum, and showed no signs of stopping his attack when I backed up to try and render aid…smells like a no-bill. In fact, it kinda sounds like free onion rings for life.
Martin
@TenguPhule: Don’t drop your guard. Yes, the winds may have dipped slightly to Cat 4, but it’s still carrying Cat 5 storm surge and ability to plow through terrain. Dig in, stay safe.
Josie
@Corner Stone:
I might have doubted you in the past, but I think I like you now.
Captain C
Russians, or Wilmer?
Gelfling 545
@Betty Cracker: Imagine Cruz? I’d psy money to see it.
Gelfling 545
@Gelfling 545: pay, that is.
Gelfling 545
@Belafon: As opposed to the one who goes by Ted to conceal his ancestry?
Martin
@Corner Stone: We’ve got your back as character witnesses: “CS is the kindest, gentlest person I’ve ever met. I once saw him, after a car hit a deer, carry the wounded deer on his back 11 miles to the animal hospital, and if that wasn’t enough, he walked back and carried the damaged car on his back another 6 miles to the mechanic. He inspired me to be a more compassionate person. I gave up eating meat and only eat discarded hypodermic needles now.”
A Ghost To Most
Christian fascism is a helluva drug, Elise.
Aleta
@Betty Cracker:
A scared straight program? Put Congress and the WH offices inside the grounds of a maximum security prison so they pass through the gates on the way in and out every day.)
Increase protection for reporting and penalties on misdemeanors etc. for elected officials.
I sound so reflexively right wing.
TenguPhule
@A Ghost To Most:The Big Island is probably going to get it the worst. On top of the volcano this is basically just more injury on top of an injury.
Gelfling 545
@mr gravity: This is true. “I know what I mean to say” as opposed to “I’ve drafted a response”.
cope
@A Ghost To Most: When she was pregnant with our first child, my wife and I and a friend of mine rented a Jeep in Ouray to drive over Imogene into Telluride and then take the highway back to Ouray. I was driving (of course) and navigating (also of course) and when I came to an apparent choice of directions to follow the road, I went left. As the road climbed and thinned and almost petered out in big blocks of talus, I realized I had made a mistake (me?). I had to do a very hairy three point turn to change direction to head back down in the right direction and mrs. cope and my buddy decided to get out and watch, taking valuable photographic evidence to provide to inquest later. I did, however, make the turn, they got back in and we motored back down to where my route-finding had failed me, went right and finally made it to Telluride and back to Ouray. Absolutely wonderful drive, by the way, if you don’t get lost and have a very pregnant woman as a passenger.
Back at the Jeep rental place, I was looking at a USGS map of where we had been (always best to look at maps after going somewhere). When I tracked my error, it was actually marked on the map with the symbol for “trail” which is actually less developed than a 4WD road. That may have been the closest my happy, wonderful marriage ever came to an end.
TenguPhule
Hail Mary play. Could it work? Maybe.
Via Wapo.
Elizabelle
Max Boot in the WaPost just now: Trump is an illegitimate president whose election is tainted by fraud
Sharks circle. I don’t see Kavanaugh getting through, I really don’t. I think we can stop him. Hold up for the next Senate, or even when we are free of Trump.
Mnemosyne
@ A Ghost To Most
Not just that — authoritarianism at work. People deserve respect based solely on their social position, not their actions, so a social inferior like a journalist is not permitted to address her social superior so disrespectfully.
Of course, if you remind these people that America is a democracy, not an aristocracy, you’ll get some pretty scary responses about how things should be.
California Stars
So who do we call now to insist they wait on Kavanaugh? Collins? Our state senators? Which are the best targets? Anyone know of a cheat sheet?
TenguPhule
wow. Just, wow.
Mandalay
I thought Cohen getting kicked in the nuts yesterday was pretty good. But it’s as nothing compared to what is happening today: every pundit is asking why is Lanny Davis such as useless lawyer, and does he have any idea of how he’s screwing things up for Cohen? And some of them are doing it to his face.
satby
@TenguPhule: you guys stay safe.
catclub
@Captain C:
Is there a distinction?
Leto
@Betty Cracker: Found a 1995 video of Ted Cruz skating. It went exactly as planned.
geg6
@Jeffro:
I say we absolutely quit relying on norms for anything. Make it a law…for everything. For a requirement to release tax forms on the part of presidential candidates. For a requirement of complete sunshine in regard to political donations, whether from individuals, organizations, or PACs. To require all presidents to put all assets, with the exception of a single private home, into a blind trust. Basically, to enshrine all of the other “norms” that this disgusting creep has simply dumped by the side of the road like so much garbage in law so there is no confusion ever again. So sick of this crap.
Betty Cracker
@cope: There are some scary “roads” around Telluride! I drove through there in a wheezing old Volvo wagon many years ago. I remember peering over guard rails and seeing smashed cars on the rocks hundreds of feet below. Later, I asked a local about it, and he said they left wrecked vehicles where they landed as a warning to others. I don’t know if he was kidding or not.
germy
@Elizabelle:
How?
(I hope you’re right)
Wapiti
@LAO: Since Donald is still the sole owner of the Trump Organization, does he have legal liabilities that he couldn’t fob off on his sons?
geg6
@TenguPhule:
Stay safe no matter what. Been worrying about both of you.
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay: I cannot abide Lanny Davis, though of course I’m rooting for him to do maximum damage to Trump, his sleazy client’s fate be damned. I saw Davis on one of the MSNBC shows last night, and he basically said he wouldn’t have taken the case if the prospect of dumping a bucket of shit over Trump’s head wasn’t central to the deal. Now, if I had Cohen’s best interests at heart, that would have made me nervous. Since I don’t, I just chuckled.
Mandalay
@Jeffro:
Trump would never have run for president if there was a legal requirement for every candidate to release the previous 5 years of tax returns when declaring their candidacy.
No tax returns released – no running for president. Simples!
Barbara
@Mandalay: You assume that his goal is to minimize harm to himself, when perhaps Cohen has decided that saving himself is less important than taking Trump down with him.
MCA1
@PJ: Furthermore, it forces them, for approximately 30 seconds a week, to confront the fact that we do not live in the most just society possible. And they don’t want to ever be reminded of that because that sucks, and fixing the underlying issues might require them to exhibit empathy and acknowledge their privilege.
Psychologically, that’s what’s behind the incredibly whiny assed “I just want to watch a football game why do these guys have to bring politics into it there’s a time and place for that” a lot of people retreat to the second you ask what the big deal is. What is the time and place for that, in their minds? Nowhere and never, actually. They live the rest of their week listening to sports talk radio and watching ESPN analysis of the 60 minute game that just transpired and commenting on instagram feeds and playing Candy Crush on their phones, so it’s not like they can be bothered to address social justice some other time. They’re also, of course, completely unaware of the racist undertone of “These African American men are being paid big bucks [to entertain me, unspoken] – how dare they use this platform that way?”
Barbara
@Mandalay: P.S. As I said earlier, Cohen’s tax evasion and fraud were not complicated. I am sure he realizes that the prosecutor has him dead to rights on so many things that clever lawyering is only going to contain how deep his grave will be, not whether he is facing burial. So, you know, his options might not be all that appealing.
Aleta
@JPL: He used to have a man to do that for him. Though the mob might be ghosting him because of the witches.
Amir Khalid
@Mandalay:
Cohen himself is a shitty lawyer as well as a crooked one. And like does call to like.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Hiking buddy and I were stopped for construction on CA 108 while headed home, an odd opportunity to walk the highway but what else are you going to do? While stuck there a dude shows up on a longboard–he’d ridden the thing down from Sonora Pass, which at 9,600 feet isn’t Coloradoesque but elevation enough for adventure seekers. Acted like it was nothing other than an opportunity for some adventure, knowing (hoping?) they wouldn’t release the line of traffic during his run.
Ted could try that.
Aleta
This:
low-tech cyclist
@Mnemosyne:
People who are of the proper political persuasion deserve respect based solely on their social position. (We remember how much deference they gave Obama.)
catclub
@Mandalay:
Neither would Mitt Romney.
Mandalay
@Barbara:
You give me far too much credit. I assume nothing, and don’t understand the legal machinations of Cohen’s predicament at all.
All I know is that I loathe, hate and despise Lanny Davis with the heat of thousand suns. So when a self-important lightweight like Katy Tur(d) makes him look like a incompetent doofus, and throws him head first into the wood chipper, it makes my day.
And if all the criticism being hurled at Davis by the Villagers is unfair and unfounded, that makes it all the sweeter.
Kdaug
@Betty Cracker: TBH, he did just eat a Whataburger at 11pm. Mighty tasty, but you’ve got to shred off those calories somehow, and that kid in the parking lot just happened to have a skateboard….
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Since two people have mentioned Telluride, here’s a photo I shot of the Sneffels Range a couple of years ago.
low-tech cyclist
@MCA1:
I don’t worry about that. I just ask them if they need the entire Sunday afternoon of football-watching to be a ‘safe space’ for them, are they such special snowflakes that a brief glimpse of a man kneeling is too much for them to take, and what happened to ‘fuck your feelings’ anyway – was that one of those ‘dish it out but can’t take it’ things?
catclub
@Elizabelle:
I just laugh. Mitch McConnell will schedule a vote sometime before he no longer has a majority of GOP senators and will ram it through.
Hearings or not.
Mnemosyne
@low-tech cyclist:
Not only of the proper political persuasion. We have a race-based caste system, after all, so an inferior person who is in a superior place is unnatural and against God’s plan. Obama defied the proper hierarchy in multiple ways, which is why they’re clinging so hard to Trump — he has restored the Natural Order of Life (conservative white men on top, everyone else below) and nothing else matters to them. All is right in their worlds because a white man is in charge.
low-tech cyclist
@cope:
Would have ended with a bang if you’d failed to make that three-point turn!
Jager
@cope:
Mrs J and the dog hopped out and walked.
low-tech cyclist
@Mandalay:
How does that work, though, given that we really have 51 separate elections for President? AFAICT, laws to that effect would have to be passed on a state-by-state basis. Am I wrong about this?
Leto
The Guardian has on their front page right now this headline: Trump Contradicts Cohen: ‘Hush Money Payments Came from Me’ I’m not really sure how that’s a contradiction. Cohen already told us that yesterday. The indictment included the particulars of how the money exchanged happened. Come on Trumpov, get up to speed. Also the Huckabeast presser went exactly as expected: “The president in this matter has done nothing wrong and there are no charges against him.”
Also Trumpov has given an interview to state TV and stated:
Wouldn’t that still be considered a campaign finance contribution? Especially when Cohen admits that the purpose of those contributions was to affect the outcome of the presidential election.
Mandalay
@catclub:
I’m sure you are correct, yet it didn’t prevent Romney releasing this load of pious claptrap on Trump’s refusal to release his tax returns:
(Not that I actually disagree with any of that, but Romney certainly didn’t see things that way when it came to releasing his own tax returns.)
Roger Moore
@MCA1:
I think this is behind a lot of the criticisms of the time, place, and manner of protests. The people criticizing know on some level the protests are just, and they know they’ll look like assholes for saying the protesters should just shut up and stop whining. Instead, they complain about how the protests are done. Yes, it’s their right to protest, but they’re doing it wrong, and I can’t support them as long as they’re doing it wrong.
IMO, the right way to counter this is to ask them what the right way to protest would be. As long as they’re criticizing, they can claim that they aren’t upset by the protests in general but only by the specifics. They’re on the offense and never have to defend their own position. But once you put them in the position of having to come up with the right way to protest, you can spend your time poking holes in their counter-proposals- why their proposal wouldn’t be effective, when someone (often them) has complained about people doing exactly what they’re suggesting, or whatever. They’re forced to think like a protestor, and you’re the one on the offensive shooting down their counter-proposals.
The Midnight Lurker
Thank you Ms. Cracker for this post! A lot of people are working their asses off to get Beto! elected. Cruz has money and the GOP machine behind him, and still we have him on the ropes! Keep up the support! Oh… and send money.
There are others that are close to unseating some real scumbags. Colin Allred in 32 has a real chance to unseat Pete Sessions, so send him a little something too.
And the Honorable Ms. Johnson in 30 needs your support as well.
Dig deep, Juicers! We have the wind at our backs now! Peace.
Platonailedit
Manafort trial: Who is the woman in the blue dress?
Barbara
@low-tech cyclist: They could also adopt the strategy that I do when I feel like the anthem has become a test of fealty or political sentiment, and that is, go to the kitchen (or the concession stand) for a snack. You don’t actually have to watch.
The Midnight Lurker
Aaaarg! The dang link button isn’t working. Typical.
DONATE TO BETO!
https://betofortexas.com
DONATE TO MR. ALLRED!
https://www.colinallred.com
DONATE TO MS. JOHNSON
https://ebjohnson.house.gov
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Platonailedit
You assholes built it, now you own it.
raven
I’m late to this so, as usual. no one will probably read it but I’m going to write it and maybe write it later. Last week I went to the 50th Anniversary of my unit in Vietnam. It’s an oddity because it’s a Rhode Island Army National Guard outfit and there were only 8 units sent during the entire war, all in 1968. Most of these guys are older than me because they joined the guard to stay out of the Nam and it often took connections to even get in the NG. They have a mailing list and, not surprisingly, they main dudes are pretty much RWNJ’s and, as such, they’ve been bitching and moaning about the NFL actions fro a while. When I got to the “hospitality suite” there were clusters of vets and their wives with a bunch of photo albums and poster boards around the room. I looked in one of the albums and it was full or articles about there call up and the subsequent efforts to keep from going to Vietnam. They had a hunger strike at Ft Devens, protests at the state capitol and took their case to the supreme court where they lost. I joined there unit about 4 months into my tour but I was given to understand that at least 20 of them just refused to get on the plane. The purpose of the reunion was not to engage about shit like this but it’s also something that is worth noting. It was ok for them to protest when THEIR asses were on the line but it’s treason now. I’m sure if they knew I was in the VVAW they’d have something to say about that too but, fuck em if they can’t take a joke.
Yutsano
@geg6: Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Yep. We gotta make all this shit law now because the Republicans REALLY shit the bed this time.
MCA1
@Roger Moore: That’s exactly how I usually address this line of argument. “When’s a better time for you?” and then noting that that’s been tried, whatever the answer is, and nobody paid any attention.
I think a significant part of the reason we’re in the situation we’re in in this country is that we’ve decided to entertain ourselves to death, so too many have become incapable of holding discourse on matters of civic importance. We’ve outsourced all that to the political entertainment industry, and treat interest in politics as just another consumption choice. “Hey, whatever, you like politics, I like hockey, my wife likes house hunting shows. To each their own.” I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve either heard that excuse (“I don’t really follow all that”) or been told I’m too strident and opinionated, as the excuse for family members and others to refuse to engage in conversations where their preconceived notions or biases might be challenged, or they’re forced to articulate an actual argument and then support it. People who know their positions are ill-informed bullshit have been given the right to just retreat from the battlefield this way. Which I guess is a longer way of saying what low-tech cyclist said upthread – they’re all snowflakes.
Sometimes, however, I like to attack the underlying selfishness of it all. “Why is this such an imposition on you? How are you being harmed? These people are protesting things like Trayvon Martin’s death and you’re complaining about being reminded of things like Trayvon Martin’s death? Seems kind of selfish to me.”
Calouste
@catclub: If the 5 years of tax returns rule had been in effect in 2016, I think Hillary Clinton, Martin O’Malley, and Jeb Bush were the only people who could have run.
dww44
@Elizabelle: Well I’ve called my Senators today, and will follow-up with a letter to the least senior one who never has a live person answer his phones. Plus, he’s on the Trump Train big time. Sunday has already been designated as a day of action by Moveon and Naral and others across the country to stop the nomination.
Find an action where you live:
Unite for Justice Events August 26
LAO
cope
@Betty Cracker: HEE HEE, half true. The expense of recovering a gnarled, twisted, bent, rusted vehicle is usually prohibitive.
True story: my buddy Ernie once drove an old car of some portion of Red Mountain Pass just for fun, jumping out at the last possible instant. Many pictures taken and I’m pretty sure it is still there.
Gin and Tonic: a gorgeous picture of my favorite place in the world, the San Juan Mountains. Mt. Sneffels (14,150′), the mountain in the middle of the shot is one I have climbed 4 times. At 68, I don’t know if I will get another shot at a fourteener, alas, especially living in Florida.
dmsilev
@low-tech cyclist: It’s easy in principle. Rather than requiring a candidate to release their own tax forms, pass a law requiring that the IRS make the returns public on or before September 1st (let’s say) for all candidates who are on the ballot in enough states to potentially win an EC majority (i.e. vanity candidates who are on the ballot in just one state are exempt). Candidates can chose for themselves whether to release returns during the primary, but for the general it’s done for them.
Jeffro
@geg6:
I am down with all of this and more.
Realizing that some of these will be a huge lift, we may as well put them on the table:
– No point in having an Electoral College if electors are just going to stick with their party’s candidate regardless of how obviously corrupt he is
– 10-20 years of tax returns made public a year in advance of the election or you’re ineligible to be on a ballot for federal office.
– Perhaps even require that candidates for president have previously been elected to state or local office prior to running for president
I’m sure there’s more, but not all are related to presidential elections:
– It’s past time to expand the # of House Reps and un-gerrymander the districts (I like computer-generated ‘compact’ districts myself; ymmv)
– consider abolishing the Senate or limiting its powers…they DEFINITELY have to guarantee an up or down vote on all admin/judicial nominations within 90 days of receiving the nomination
– SCOTUS terms…I’m good with anywhere from 18-30 years, but no more lifetime appointments for any federal judges
And on and on. All the energy will be focused on codifying former presidential norms into law (like you’re suggesting) but the whole system needs some serious work
Roger Moore
@Calouste:
I think there were plenty of other candidates who had clean enough taxes that they could have met the requirements without too much embarrassment had they been required to release their 5 most recent years. They didn’t because they weren’t required to, but they could have if they had been required. I don’t think either Trump or Wilmer would have run had they been required to disclose their taxes, though.
Jeffro
@Mandalay: Agreed. It’ll take more than that, of course, but that is such low-hanging fruit for reform…make it mandatory, Congress!
Calouste
@dmsilev: We might as well make it that every candidate on the general election ballot for a federal office (so including Congress), has their tax returns released by the IRS. And make it 6 years, the longest term in federal office.
Oh, and fuck vanity candidates.
Miss Bianca
@raven:
Yeah, this insight right here. Sums the whole issue all up for me. Right on, raven.
hitchhiker
@MCA1:
Look away from the screen, buttercup. I mean, I don’t want to look at the cheerleaders because I don’t see why they have to bring sex into it when I just want to watch a football game, but being an adult and all, I just look at something else.
And if you don’t have the self-discipline to look away, you can choose not to be offended by the sight of black men humbly asking that there be fewer police shootings of their young cousins.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@cope:
Not a lot of fourteener’s in Floriduh. There’s one in California(White Mountain Peak) that not a bad hike(hike not mountain climbing) if you got there on certain dates(cuts a few miles off the hike).
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
I would be a bit laxer than that. People sometimes decide to run for office later than you’d expect. Special elections are a good example. Do you really want to require people to release their taxes randomly in the hope that maybe there will be a special election that makes it reasonable for them to run? I think it would be fine to require the taxes to be revealed as part of the process of officially declaring yourself as a candidate. So if you want to be a candidate, you have to get signatures from so many registered voters from the district where you’re going to run and reveal your taxes. Also, at the very least you should have an exception that candidates who are young enough only have to present their taxes back to when they were 18.
Mandalay
There have been some great stories in the past day about how Duncan Hunter is a total fuckwit, but this one is a real doozy:
What a moran.
Corner Stone
This is painful. But I can’t look away.
joel hanes
@Mandalay:
Trump would never have run for president if there was a legal requirement for every candidate to release the previous 5 years of tax returns
Neither would Wilmer, who AFAIK has released only partial information for just one year.
Gin & Tonic
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I think he could find a few fourteeners in Florida.
14′, that is, not 14,000′.
joel hanes
@trollhattan:
dude shows up on a longboard–he’d ridden the thing down from Sonora Pass
I’m impressed.
The top part of that is one hell of a twisty road, and in many places a missed turn would send one flying into the air over hundred foot or greater drops. Big fun in a sports car.
CliosFanBoy
even better, Beto may help bring people to the polls to vote straight D.
chopper
@Leto:
yep. just because you paid for it personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to be reported if it’s in the interest of your candidacy.
CliosFanBoy
@MCA1: “I just want to watch a football game why do these guys have to bring politics into it there’s a time and place for that”
the NFL introduced politics into it when they added the big National Anthem production. Standing for the Anthem is itself a political statement.
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
I’m worried that any attempt to fix gerrymandering by coming up with more detailed rules to insulate the district drawing process from politics are doomed to failure. There’s just too much value in corrupting the process. The only real solution to gerrymandering is proportional representation; it eliminates the problem at its root.
Mandalay
@joel hanes: Good call! So if we had made releasing tax returns mandatory back in 2011 we would have lost Willard, Wilmer & Drumpf.
Sounds like a law firm, but it’s actually a trio of dangerous con artists.
Gravenstone
@raven: I’m sure they’re just chock full of thoughts about the draft dodgers and deferment collectors, too. Hope your reunion was otherwise enjoyable for you.
The Midnight Lurker
@raven: I read it. I salute you.
Gravenstone
@CliosFanBoy: Add to that MLB’s insistence on playing ‘God Bless America’ every fucking Sunday game (at minimum) and the attempted patriotic commandeering of national sports runs apace.
Corner Stone
@Leto:
It’s the dumbest possible defense in the stupidest possible timeline.
James E Powell
Question for the hive: When will John Kasich announce he is running for the GOP nomination in 2020? I’m thinking right after the mid-terms, but sooner if more crimes become more obvious.
Ruckus
@TenguPhule:
Thought all you had to do was back up and make sure you did it right.
Mandalay
@Jeffro:
I have no idea if that is the best possible solution, but doing nothing is surely worse:
Raven
@Gravenstone: There was never a peep about any of this. The articles in the album weren’t discussed that I know of and it was nice to see these guys. I will say that any of them I’ve ever talked to fully admit they got in the guard to avoid going. We did a bell ringing for the 60 or so who have died and mostly shot the shit and laughed a lot. The contentious stuff is on the email chain. One guy did say “all there pictures and no one smoking dope”? I fixed that for him!
Gravenstone
@James E Powell: He might wait until 2019, but yeah he’s clearly positioning himself to be the alternative to Trump and his malign influence going forward.
L85NJGT
@CliosFanBoy:
Exhibit A: the problems that can arise when private enterprise wraps itself in the flag.
The booyahs can’t get it through their heads that the NFL is afraid of losing African-American customer dollars. Ask NASCAR about being over reliant on an aging fan demographic.
The Midnight Lurker
News flash! According to sources inside the Cruz campaign – they are trying to find a polite way to dis-invite our soon-to-have-his-ass-indicted president* from coming to Texas to help poor Teddy.
If you can imagine a bunch of people rolling around on the floor, laughing themselves to death, now you know what HQ looks like.
Gravenstone
@The Midnight Lurker: Oh that’s just perfection. And after Teddy publicly debased himself by pleading with Trump to come campaign for him!
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
Nonpartisan commissions seem to work pretty well — that’s why Arizona Republicans desperately tried to reverse the districts that their nonpartisan commission came up with.
trollhattan
@joel hanes:
Exactly so, it’s a hellovan adventure in the summit section–we’ll call it “twoish lane” and leave it at that.
Miss Bianca
@The Midnight Lurker: I’m guessing you’re referring to Beto’s HQ, as opposed to Ted Cruz’s. ; )
The Midnight Lurker
Yes! Apparently, some of Teddy’s top people are in something of a full blown panic! Can’t type… laughing!
James E Powell
@Gravenstone:
I also wonder if Lil Marco might see this as an opening.
The Midnight Lurker
Please come to Texas, Trump… please, oh, please, oh please!
Doug R
@TenguPhule: Try to stay above the storm surge.
germy
What are they up to now?
germy
“You can’t say Texas doesn’t love you, Mr. President.”
Bill Arnold
I needed an off-US-politics break today (too many crazy-town ratholes, some of which are probably true (don’t ask)), and found this:
The Macabre Art of Baking People Pot Pies – Crafting skin and flesh from the sweet and tasty. (Atlas Obscyura, Leigh Chavez-Bush, August 22, 2018)
One maker does inedible pies, the other edible items:
A Ghost To Most
@cope: Imogene Pass scared the shit out of my friend that introduced me to the rock roads, in his own vehicle. Driving it in a rental would be worse. People die there.
polyorchnid octopunch
@TenguPhule: You’re using his brain pan, so about the right amount, actually.
A Ghost To Most
@geg6: Add to that the requirement that all candidates acquire a Top Secret clearance prior to running. Can’t get one? Tough shit.
The Midnight Lurker
@Miss Bianca: I WISH I WAS THERE!
Jay
“Rivera has lived in Iowa for four to seven years, working at Yarrabee Farms, a Brooklyn-area farm owned by Eric Lang, the brother of Craig Lang, a prominent Republican.
Craig Lang has verified that Rivera is in Iowa legally, according to Richards’ motion.”
trollhattan
@The Midnight Lurker:
Donny knows FULL WELL what Teddy’s daddy did there.
A Ghost To Most
@Gin & Tonic:
My dad lived in Ruskin, and he took me near to the highest point around – the trash mountain at the landfill.
A Ghost To Most
@Gin & Tonic:
Beautiful pic. My favorite place is the environs around Mt. Sneffels in the San Juans.
MCA1
@Mandalay: Yeah, that’s possibly the biggest one on my list. You can trace so much of our current dysfunction back to the fact that GOP Senators representing maybe 15% of the nation’s population can stop pretty much any legislation they want with the help of the filibuster rules. One of the ultimate ironies of the Constitution in real life 250 years after its birth: they understandably set up the Senate as a check against the threat of a tyranny of the big, populous states, but the result is we’re all being held hostage by fucking Wyoming and Mississippi. It’s incredibly UNdemocratic.
The Moar You Know
@A Ghost To Most: one of a slew of examples I could give: Obama would not have been granted one due to previous admitted drug use.
Better rethink that idea. It’s a really bad one. It’s an easily manipulated process that does very, very little to screen out bad actors, despite what decades of TV would have you think.
The single most effective tool to screen out bad actors from political office will be an across the board, mandatory, lifetime disclosure of tax returns. Everything you’ve ever filed.
For all Federal offices and most state ones. Needs to happen.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Beto’s answer was solid. A little too nice to racists for my tastes, but he’s got an election to win so I’m ok with it.
My answer would be something like:
Look there’s nothing wrong with a person feeling uncomfortable by a protest. That’s the whole point. And there’s nothing wrong with thinking “you know I wouldn’t do that myself” and then just going about your day. But when people decide to criticize or tone-police a protestor’s choice in any way, they need to first do some serious thinking about where their discomfort stems from. And read up on how the sentiments Patriotism that we all have to some extent, have been used repeatedly to silence the voices of the oppressed. And they need to think real hard about whether voicing those criticisms is needed or if it will just aid current attempts to silence voices that struggle to be heard. Because whatever they feel, nobody HAS to say anything. They need to understand that not everyone shares their warm and fuzzy feelings about this country and do some homework to try to understand why that is. And finally people need to understand that something as simple as expressing their feelings or opinion can and does, in fact, help further Oppression by silencing dissent.
TenguPhule
@Doug R: Not a problem. Don’t even live close to the beach. It’s not that small an island, you know. :P
Jay
@The Moar You Know:
Adam’s walked us through the Security Clearance process many times. The whole process is conditional. A drug habit or addition would be disqualifying by itself.
Public Admission of long past recreational use, would have 30 years ago been a disqualifier, but not now.
MazeDancer
NBC/Marist poll just announced:
Cruz 49
Beto 45
4 point race, folks
Ian R
@The Moar You Know: Not a bad idea, but it would really have to be done on the IRS side, not the candidate side.
Do you have all the returns you’ve ever filed? I sure don’t bother keeping them more than a decade.
TenguPhule
@Ian R: IRS purges most of the detailed information on the return after 8 years.
J R in WV
@TenguPhule:
Have told my friends (with connectivity) and relatives on the Big Island to be careful and hole up from the storm. Friends without connectivity live in the jungle, Waipio Valley, on the NE corner of the Island, I don’t know what they will do about the storm, their houses are mostly screen with a plywood deck and metal roof.
They are smart, and across the island from the storm, so probably will be OK.
JDM in NYC
@germy: Please proceed, Governor…
J R in WV
@CliosFanBoy:
Yes it is, and the Supremes have long ago decided that no one can force someone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance or other patriotic occasions. Because WV schools tried to force Jehova’s Witness kids to stand for the Pledge, and they wouldn’t do it. And the court back in McCarthy days said, “Nope, can’t make anyone do that.” After much lawyering.
So I don’t think anyone can make NFL players stand for the anthem. Now, maybe a boss can get away with more than a government can, I dunno, but I wouldn’t think the NFL really wants to make it a bigger deal than it is already.
spainnews
Texans ain”t stooped. We can see Beto for what he is. Yes, Beto has raised a lot of money from out of state liberals, primarily from California. I”ll bet Sorus has figured out a way to give him some cash too. Beto will carry some of the larger towns like San Antone, Dallas, Austin and probably the valley too, but I don”t think he”ll carry Houston where Cruz is fairly strong. Cruz”s strength is in the rural parts of Texas where a deep hatred of liberals is obviously evident. Due to the sheer size of Texas there are many more rural voters than city slickers. I would not worry too much about Cruz, Beto is out of his league. 5