Sen. John McCain has died at age 81. The Vietnam war hero turned warrior politician was diagnosed with brain cancer last summer. https://t.co/sPOkWa3GVl pic.twitter.com/tayjTBCW6I
— CNN (@CNN) August 26, 2018
by TaMara| 165 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
Sen. John McCain has died at age 81. The Vietnam war hero turned warrior politician was diagnosed with brain cancer last summer. https://t.co/sPOkWa3GVl pic.twitter.com/tayjTBCW6I
— CNN (@CNN) August 26, 2018
Comments are closed.
Tim in SF
I read just yesterday that he had decided to stop treatment.
Smedley Darlington Mingobat (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
He was a deeply flawed man, but he had his moments of bigness, too. Sometimes he rose nearly to greatness. As one of the–relatively–sane Republicans, he’ll be missed.
lamh36
Condolences to his family, and as always I thank him for his service.
That’s all I’ve got. No more, no less
May be a great time to take a brief break from twitter or social media though, cause the fakers are out already…and the reporters so far look like they personally lost their grandfather.
If you weren’t a complete fan of the man, it’s gonna be pretty eye roll inducing.
Mai Naem mobile
John McCain was my Rep and Senator and never received a vote from me. He voted against the repeal of the ACA. For that I will be forever grateful to him. Also he is one of the few GOP senators who didn’t seem to be compromised by the Russians. RIP Senator McCain.
Roger Moore
As I said in the previous post, McCain spent essentially his entire adult live in government service. The moment he left the military, he ran for public office and was there until the day he died. There are many aspects of his life and his service that are open to criticism, but his desire to serve the public is laudable.
peej01
Condolences to his family and thanks for helping me keep my health insurance.
PaulWartenberg
Back when I was still a registered Republican, I helped on his 2000 primary campaign in South Florida. I still have a personal animus towards the Bush family – and Jeb in particular – but I also felt McCain was a genuine reformer compared to the other Republican leaders. I was heartbroken he got railroaded by the damn Bushies that primary. He was probably the last Republican I will ever vote for.
FelonyGovt
Damn, that affects the confirmation of Kavanaugh.
Wapiti
“Vietnam war hero”. Huh.
I’ll grant that he was a POW and did refuse early release – offered because his father was an admiral. That was very honorable. And he did suffer injuries that afflicted him the rest of his life.
Smedley Darlington Mingobat (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
And people all over the U.S. right now are shaking their heads and thinking, “It should have been Tяump…”
FelonyGovt
@FelonyGovt: Sorry if that sounded insensitive. I have a certain amount of respect for McCain and am sorry about his terrible illness and passing. Didn’t agree with him on hardly anything, though.
Shell
Fuck, fuck. My father died of the same kind of tumor, in1980. All these years and the survival rate hasnt gotten any better.
Cant say it enough, FUCK cancer!
lamh36
PBO statement on McCain’s passing:
https://twitter.com/desiderioDC/status/1033515235167166464
SiubhanDuinne
This news saddens me. I often disagreed with him politically, but there was never a question that he was a loyal and loving patriot. There will be plenty of time to assess his legacy for good or ill. In the meantime, if you are inclined to snark and say hateful things about him tonight, just please STFU for now and let’s rememember a flawed man who gave a huge sacrifice for his country. May he rest easily and may his family be comforted.
RedDirtGirl
@lamh36: all I can say is meh. And remember that he called his wife a c#nt in front of reporters.
Karen
He didn’t sell his soul to Trump. That’s enough for me.
raven
@Wapiti: Trump “grants” that too.
chopper
condolences to his family. and thanks to him for spiking fucking trumpcare.
lamh36
Chump statement via tweet:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1033515425336885248
RedDirtGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: and now I’ll STFU.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: You know better than that. Motherfuckers have to show how smart they are.
Baud
@lamh36: Nonoffensive, except for the exclamation point.
Chet Murthy
@FelonyGovt: I don’t think you sounded insensitive.
His service in Vietnam was exemplary. He endured with courage, grace, and dignity. He didn’t betray our Republic, or his fellow servicemen, when the inducements were enormous. He paid a massive price for that, esp. physically, but I’m sure psychologically.
And then, he connived in the [nearr?]destruction of that Republic. And all because he couldn’t be bothered to caucus with the Dems.
It’s tragic, it is.
FlipYrWhig
@PaulWartenberg: I was just popping on the thread to wonder aloud what the Republican Party that would have emerged from a McCain ‘00 victory would have been like.
Shana
McCain was a mixed bag as are most politicians. His war service and experiences as a POW should be honored.
On the other hand, he was hip deep in the Keating Five, and spent all of the Obama era trying his best to make it as ineffective as possible along with the rest of the GOP, sniping as much as possible any chance he got. There’s the joke that he had a permanent spot in the green rooms of all the Sunday Shows.
He did scuttle the recent attempt to gut the ACA, for which I’m grateful.
What happens now though? I assume there isn’t time to nominate anyone for an election in November. Does the governor of AZ appoint a replacement? What are the rules?
Baud
@Shana: Probably an appointment. And probably someone worse than McCain from our perspective.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
I will read everyone else’s remarks.
This is the only one I will make concerning McCain.
He got a raw deal from a lot of people about what he did on that horrible day on the USS Forestall in 1967.
And this.
Mom always told me to say nothing if I couldn’t find something good to say.
Nothing.
ProfDamatu
@Mai Naem mobile: Yeah, this is about where I am. I didn’t agree with him on just about anything politically, but he did spend his life in public service. I know there’s plenty that historians will have to say about his motivations, but that’s for the future. As a person who’s had cancer twice and depends on the ACA for access to health insurance, I’ll always be grateful for his vote to save it, no matter what his motivation. Condolences to his family.
Also, cancer sucks, no matter who gets it. No one should have to die like that.
magurakurin
@Smedley Darlington Mingobat (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
true…but then people do that every time we here that anyone at all has died. Hell, even when here that cats and dogs have died or someone squished a bug.
raven
@Shana:
Calouste
@Wapiti: POW release is first-in-first-out, with exceptions granted by the commanding officer, which is the highest ranking POW. If McCain had accepted his early release from the Vietnamese he could have been court-martialled.
So he was really trying to claim credit for not doing something he wasn’t actually allowed to do.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Gracious and generous and honest.
magurakurin
@magurakurin: my god…my spelling…and the edi function seems gone….doh
buck2202
@Baud: Appointment until 2020.
Brachiator
Vox has a whole thing on the replacement process.
More here.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17781526/john-mccain-replacement-arizona-governor-doug-ducey
Baud
@buck2202: That’s good. A presidential election year.
lamh36
@Baud: which likely means he didn’t write it.
No less than 24 hours ago, there was reporting that Chump hated McCain and felt he had it out for him, and would not speak of him while McCain was “still here” and lamenting McCain not vacating his seat after his brain cancer returned.
So…yeah…he didn’t write that
japa21
@Baud: Wrong, it is offensive. It said nothing about McCain the man. Only sympathy for the family.
Yutsano
A flawed sailor. A flawed man. Yet one of his last acts in the Senate saved millions. His legacy will be chewed over. I offer him no hagiography. Just peace in the next existence and love and healing light to his family.
Chet Murthy
@FlipYrWhig: IANAP(olitical)S(cientist). But from what I read, Dubya took from his father’s defeat the critical lesson that you had to reach out to the evangelicals. And those folks, ever since the 60s, were racists and misogynists. Maybe McCain wouldn’t reach out to them. But his successor on the GrOPer side? Yeah. Sooner or later, there’d be a Dem challenger, and the GrOPers would go back to that well that C- Augustus had discovered, for some more electoral juice.
And eventually we’d end up here. It wasn’t just their rage at Barack Obama. Back during the Chimperor’s reign, I used to read Stop The Spirit of Zossen; back then, I didn’t understand as much about the GrOPers. He was very very focused on The Movement and their infiltration of the conservative part of America. I mean, going back to their infiltration of the Air Force Academy (remember 2005 and the scandals around the way non-Christian cadets were treated?)
All McCain’s election would have meant, is a modest postponement of this inevitable battle. I don’t think, for long enough that the demographic wave of the mid-21st-century could crest. Maybe long enough that a Shitlord can’t win. But then again, the GrOPers were gonna do their gerrymandering, one way or the other, so that isn’t certain.
JPL
In the previous blog, I mentioned a few things I remembered about McCain..
One his correcting a supporter and the second Mr. Puddles, but there is a third. Sarah wanted to speak after he loss, and he said no.
This is Jon Stewart’s Mr. Puddles take. http://www.cc.com/video-clips/njmn0d/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-word-war-ii
p.a.
Condolences to his family. Honor for his service, and a few of his votes.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@FlipYrWhig:
I doubt it would ultimately have mattered. The GOP has been on this path since Nixon and probably a little before. The same forces that have shaped the GOP in this timeline (white supremacy, evangelicalism, authoritarian politics) would have still sent them to the same place they occupy today.
With McCain a warhawk, I wonder if 9/11 would have still played out the way it did assuming he won the general as well in 2000. Not to mention Afganistan and Iraq.
Baud
@lamh36: Definitely not.
@japa21:
Grading on a curve.
raven
@Calouste: Thank you mr Sampley.
Mary G
I would be very surprised if the president wrote that tweet. I wonder if McConnell will let the body get cold before he demands the replacement so he can confirm Kavanaugh.
lamh36
Graham has a twitter thread about McCain.
This one will really have you rolling your eyes!
his “mentor” huh…I’m sure his mentor LOVE his sucking up to Chump
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruckus:
Fair enough. I don’t think anyone’s looking for encomia from BJ jackals. I just hope we can hold off on the invective for a day or two.
Mary G
@JPL: The concession speech in 2008 was very gracious, and keeping SP from speaking was a good thing.
PhoenixRising
The average hospice stay is 46 hours.
It’s tragic when ‘treatment’ continues until days before death. It’s coming for all of us. The final gift both my parents gave their children (22 years ago & 5 months ago) was accepting that more treatment was distracting them from saying goodbye to their family and their lives.
Senator McCain had 5 children, and they deserve our sympathy for their loss.
Brachiator
@Calouste:
Few human beings would elect to stay in prison and be tortured, just because of some silly ass military rules.
All who did, including McCain, certainly deserve thanks.
magurakurin
@FlipYrWhig: I am no fan of McCain, but if he had won the nom and then the presidency I think he probably wouldn’t have said “okay, you’ve covered your ass, you can go,” when the CIA gave him the report “Bin Laden plans to strike the US.” I still would never have voted for him, but he most certainly would have been better than W.
lamh36
Oh just saw a tweet from Dana Bash that Ted Kennedy died today too
lamh36
@lamh36: 9 years ago
Cermet
A man who endured torture but when his party supported one of the most vile of tortures – over and above what he had ever endured – he supported that party and worse still: pretended to oppose the torture only to allow it to continue. That, is his only legacy – not sad, but certainly that is what is truly tragic about him and his party. They sell their souls and all they truly believe (or believed) for the siren sound of power and the money it obtains; the one god they truly worship.
Ben Cisco
Fuck cancer. No one should die that way. I feel for his family dealing with his loss.
Brachiator
@Chet Murthy:
We might have had Sarah Palin as president.
Palin instead of Trump. God, the universe hates us.
Chet Murthy
@Chet Murthy: @FlipYrWhig:
Aargh. Well, that was embarrassing. I read your Q as about 2008, not 2000. So not an answer. Sheesh. Read more carefully. Also: “Oh edit button, come home, we need you so!” Ah, well.
I think @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: is onto something. It wouldn’t have required much to pay attention the CIA and FBI and maybe, just maybe, avoid 9/11 and all the own-goals that followed. It would have been TRIVIAL to avoid fucking invading Iraq and destabilizing the entire Middle East. It’s possible that McCain 43 could have accomplished that.
And that would have been of world-historical importance, albeit unrecognized, b/c on that timeline, Iraq isn’t a charnel house.
TaMara (HFG)
@SiubhanDuinne: I think if President Obama can speak at his funeral (as is being reported) we can rise to his example and send condolences to his family and honor his decades of service for one evening.
Matt McIrvin
@Chet Murthy: The eventual “say the quiet parts loud” President might have been someone less obviously loathsome, and more politically skillful, than Donald Trump–some smooth troll with the ability to make the VDARE or Richard Spencer line seem respectable.
Of course, we may get that anyway as our next Republican President.
Mary G
@lamh36: The replies to Graham are brutal.
Wapiti
@Calouste: Yeah, but he still made a choice, a hard choice. Already years in a POW situation that might last how long? Many might think time in Leavenworth would be preferable.
As to my “hero?” comment; the man did earn a Silver Star; an award for valor, so the country did recognize him as such. I spoke out of turn.
PhoenixRising
John McCain was Karl Rove’d out of the 2000 primary in South Carolina with flyers referring to his adopted daughter (Bangladeshi) as his mixed race love child. Until that racist attack on his family he was expected to beat W in the South & roll on to Super Tuesday.
In May 2016, John McCain responded to a question about Trump’s apparent win of the GOP primary, a question referencing the nominee’s inexperience in public service and lack of respect for norms in government with the flip statement: “I’m not worried about that. We’re not Romania.”
Regrettable lack of foresight.
Chet Murthy
@Brachiator:
One can dislike the man and what he’s done in his later years to our Republic. But what he did there required great courage. And he did it for us, for our Republic. This is, indeed, to be lauded.
Matt McIrvin
@PhoenixRising: My grandmother opted for hospice care when she got esophageal cancer at age 96. It was an easy decision and a good one.
Chet Murthy
@Brachiator:
We might have had Sarah Palin as president.
Palin instead of Trump. God, the universe hates us.
lamh36
@Mary G: yep…well deserved
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Chet Murthy:
Don’t forget Katrina if he was re-elected in 2004. I do agree with you. A 2000-2008 McCain presidency would have merely been a postponement. How would the Great Recession have been handled by him? Hell, the 2006 Dem wave wouldn’t have happened.
SiubhanDuinne
@TaMara (HFG):
Yes. This. Absolutely.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
In that case.
No one should have to go through what he went through as a POW. He was tortured and lived with the injuries for the remainder of his life, 50+ yrs. No one knows what he did or didn’t say as a POW to his captors, except them. No one who has gone through that comes out the other side the same.
Mary G
Isobel
McCain was one of the few GOPers that I actually respected, even if I didn’t agree with him. His service in Vietnam was commendable and I will always be greatful for him shooting down Trumpcare.
My condolences to his family, and may he rest in peace.
Baud
Browkow is such a tool.
Mary G
President Obama’s statement:
So gracious.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Calouste: I doubt that was in his mind,when he refused to be released early. There was a cohesiveness of those inprisoned. Note that the Vietnamese tortured him as well as placed him in solitary confinement. Also I doubt the Navy would have done that when the man’s father was an Admiral, at least not publically.
TaMara (HFG)
Okay, I tried a link, didn’t work. So here’s the copy & paste version:
lamh36
the last and probaby best thing, I will remember McCain for.
His short and sweet thumbs down on Chump’s repeal bill for ACA.
And to be quite honest, probably one of the better reasons why PBO will do the eulogy aside from PBO just being a good guy.
https://twitter.com/Crimealytics/status/1033511693610098688
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
I wouldn’t wish cancer on my worst enemy. Hearing those words, “The biopsy was positive, you have cancer” is never, ever a good day. Hearing it about a cancer with a very low survival rate………..
Mandalay
@Calouste:
But did McCain really ever try to claim credit for staying with his fellow prisoners? to me that would seem to be completely out of character for McCain, and I am surely not his biggest fan.
I’ve seen plenty of people understandably giving him credit for that, but can you back up your claim that McCain tried to “claim credit”?
Brachiator
@TaMara (HFG):
Didn’t McCain and his family specifically request Obama?
Hmm
Kinda bipartisan, a Democrat and a Republican.
But no Trump.
lamh36
@TaMara (HFG): way OT, but mahn I miss Franken in the Senate. If Kavanaugh actually makes it to a hearing, I’m hoping Al still has the ear of some of his former Senat comerades…so he can feed them some great questions!
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
Could you even imagine what Trump would say at McCain’s funeral? He would probably mention at some point through his spiel about his “personal” Vietnam of not getting herpes. No thanks.
Mandalay
@Brachiator:
Kinda hard to speak at the funeral when you are specifically not invited.
TriassicSands
McCain was never the “maverick” he may have aspired to be. At critical times he failed both as a person and as a politician. But if he had been an average Republican, this country would be far better off than it is today. Instead, he was much better than most, which is more of a criticism of them than it is a compliment to him. It is a shame that as an elder statesman he didn’t have more influence in his own party.
I hope his last days were spent in relative comfort with his family and close friends. He deserved at least that for his suffering in Vietnam.
It must have really galled him to see Trump take the oath of office and it must have shaken his belief in the American people that someone so unfit and unqualified could be elected president. The country was better off with Obama as president, but had the country elected McCain instead, we would have survived, something that can’t be said today with any confidence.
At his best, McCain was worthy of sincere respect. In 2018, he may be the only congressional Republican about whom that can be said. At his worst, he chose a mindless hack to be his running mate. For his legacy and the well-being of the country, I wish that he had not done that. As others have said he deserves thanks for helping to save the ACA. As a final, significant act in the Senate, few votes could have helped more people.
RIP Senator McCain.
fuzz
@Wapiti:
they weren’t abiding by those rules anyway in Vietnam. There were guys released (like the young guy who memorized everyone he was there with) who were released way before the first one shot down, the guy who went down in 64. He definitely could have gotten out if he wanted to but he chose to stay. They would never have court martialed him.
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: I am so sorry to hear that. I’ve been scarce around here of late and missed it. Hang in there.
scottinnj
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: He would probably brag that he got more electoral votes than McCain and hold up the map.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: The moment he left the military, he ran for public office and was there until the day he died. There are many aspects of his life and his service that are open to criticism, but his desire to serve the public is laudable.
That’s well put. His heart was usually in the right place, his intentions good. He was sincere when he talked about believing in something larger than himself. I’m content to leave discussion of his flaws for another day. But I do wonder if even those lauding him today– I think Brokaw was actually weeping– think as I do, that he could have done a lot more over the last year. I wonder if he thought that as he lay dying
TomatoQueen
Just the Navy hymn. https://youtu.be/ic8zMkYwnq8
Brachiator
@Mandalay:
I should have emphasized that McCain sees that Obama and Bush represent America in his gesture, and that Trump is a Tweet told by an idiot, signifying nothing.
TS (the original)
@Mary G:
The definition of Barack Obama
debit
I am sorry for his family and their loss.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mary G: Gracious and genuine. It’s not cliched.
Mr Stagger Lee
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Probably would have remarked about McCain was a hero until he got captured, and prefers heroes who don’t get captured.
JPL
@Mary G: This is trump’s
My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!
What’s with the explanation point.. hmm
James E Powell
@TaMara (HFG):
If you’re asking me to live up to the standards set by Barack Obama – for class, for graciousness, for humanity – I am sorry to tell you that I am not able to do that.
lamh36
Statement from Jimmy Carter
https://twitter.com/alanblinder/status/1033527752119537669
Mandalay
@John Cole
The rolling logo just displayed at the top of my BJ homepage was “This is good news for John McCain“.
No offense intended I’m sure, but I think you guys might consider removing that one permanently.
Baud
@lamh36: The Clintons just realeased something also. MSNBC is reading it.
James E Powell
@Mary G:
You’re right. They are unrestrained. Doubt Graham reads them, though I wonder what impact, if any, they’d have if he did.
Yarrow
Condolences to his family and gratefulness for his service. I’m forever grateful for his “thumbs down” vote to save the ACA.
lamh36
Statement from Bill Clinton:
https://twitter.com/BillClinton/status/1033528680239296517
Suzanne
Arizona feels different tonight. I disagreed with him much more than I agreed with him (I voted for him once when I was young and the Dem candidate was terrible), but I always believed in his essential love of country and his devotion.
Godspeed, Senator, and best wishes to the McCain family.
Doug!
@lamh36:
Yup. I don’t hate John McCain but the media love for him is gross, and I wouldn’t even be surprised if he thought so himself.
dr. bloor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Not to pick on you specifically, since it’s all over the place, but the thing is, you really can’t. All of the good that was advertised, at least some of which was authentic and real, was inextricably entwined with a man who could at times be self-interested, vote against his constituents at the behest of his patrons, and act so recklessly so as to inflict Sarah Palin on the nation. To lionize him now, even as his body is still warm, is self-indulgent puffery to make oneself feel good, and in no way a memorial to the real man.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
For Sarah Palin and all that, still McCain didn’t deserve brain cancer. And he was a much better man than his party.
Ohio Mom
@lamh36: The image of McCain walking up to vote and turning his thumb down seared itself into my memory. I will remember it always. It was a fabulous moment, and he knew it, he worked it. Like others here have already said, I am very grateful to McCain for it.
I am glad I am old enough to relish that moment even as I maintain a long list of reasons why I could never be a fan of McCain. It is good to know how to handle cognitive dissonance.
raven
@dr. bloor: It’s a stupid fucking blog and nobody gives a shit.
dexwood
McCain has died. Oh well, moving on. . .
Dread
I didn’t like his politics and I hated that he gave Sarah Palin her 15 minutes of fame, but the man did have the courage to put on a uniform and serve when many of his GOP peers were asking Daddy for a cushy assignment at home or busy claiming that they’d really like to go, but they had ouchy feet.
And when the rest of his asshole party decided to embrace torture, he stood against them. I will always respect him for that.
Rest in peace and fuck cancer.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
That’s an even weirder coincidence when you realize they both died of the same kind of brain tumor.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: What did he do?
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
Mine wasn’t one with a low survival rate. And so far so good. Nothing is perfect but sometimes medicine really does have their shit together. But we are still in the coming out of the dark ages stage. It’s only been in my lifetime that a lot of diseases that used to kill so many have been, if not eradicated, at least slowed to extremely few to no cases a year. Heart surgery, the ability to see, if not perfectly, pretty damn well what’s going on inside. The ability to use X-rays as a reasonable, reliable treatment, new treatments, such as for HIV. My friend who just died was a very early pacemaker recipient and probably got that because she had sickle cell and a limited life expectancy. A safe lab rat. She fooled them. And today people live because of that. We don’t see as much of the good side of healthcare in the US as we should because so many spend so much time just trying to get any and so many still don’t. And for some strange reason we don’t see dental and vision as healthcare. So many, many miles to go, but we’ve come a long way in my lifetime.
Chet Murthy
I read someplace (now-)famous British poet of Somali birth, Warsan Shire, said
In that same vein, I think it’s pretty much indisputable that the Hanoi Hilton was the mouth of a shark. And yet he didn’t leave b/c those who’d arrived before him were not offered the same. Mouth of a shark. Mouth of a shark. We can’t claim sympathy for refugees, and not offer him the same, regardless of what Navy regs said.
lamh36
@Doug!: IKR…I mean Brokaw and some others practically weeping on air. Chuckles called into the news cast and sounded like he was a bit overcome too..
Like…HARD EYEROLL…moments abounded
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hot air, chin music, brain droppings, keyboard ramblings…. Balloon Juice, as they say.
lamh36
Statement from Joe Biden:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1033529461470322690
dr. bloor
@raven: Just to clarify, does this mean that I should not bother commenting, or that you are self-consciously pissing your life away by commenting on a blog no one gives a shit about.
magurakurin
@Mandalay: that would be a good call…certainly for a few months. Someone stopping by might not realize it is just a random, rolling logo. I second that suggestion. Take that one down.
Brachiator
@dr. bloor:
A memorial emphasizes the positive aspects of a person’s life. An obituary is more comprehensive. Neither has anything to do with self-indulgence.
magurakurin
@dr. bloor: pretty sure Raven hasn’t pissed his life away…but you…you…hmmm
WaterGirl
I cried yesterday when I read that McCain had stopped treatment. I loathed the man, but still I cried at the thought of anyone having brain cancer, fighting, losing and dying. Emotions are so weird.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I will normally not use his name, he doesn’t deserve the recognition.
But this is way too good not to repeat. And deserves applause .
dr. bloor
@Brachiator: His last important vote fucked over millions of Americans who didn’t have the advantages of an influential father or a wife that inherited a jillion dollars. If you’re lionizing this guy in any instance at any time and ignoring his flaws, even right after he dies, you’re just making yourself feel good about what a magnanimous person you are.
Is that clearer?
Gozer
I’ve seen family and friends go from cancer. It’s a shitty way to go and I feel for his family.
All I care to say.
lamh36
It’s interesting to see the differeing reactions on here and social media.
I’m wondering if it’s generational, cause To be quite honest, to the younger folks commenting I see on social media so far, what McCain will being remembered for is his choice of Sarah Palin…
I’m thinking, his “legacy” is forever tarnaished for it for the newer generation?
Tenar Arha
@RedDirtGirl: Don’t think I’ll ever forget this one
SiubhanDuinne
Anodyne, tapioca boilerplate from the OOOTUS.
JPL
This is one of many problems that I have with republicans, both Flake and Corker will criticize the policies of the republicans running to replace them, but in the end support them.
lamh36
Notice Chump’s statement came out AFTER PBOs…so you KNOW Chump will HATE that
Tim C.
@WaterGirl: The day we can’t even feel sympathy for a Republican is the day we betray why we choose to be Democrats.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
Yes. Gracious and generous. And specific to Senator McCain. Compare with Dolt 45’s cookie-cutter, utterly predictable, Hallmark Card message.
EZSmirkzz
I’ve read a lot about what Senator McCain was, the usual recycled platitudes of ‘Maverick’ and ferocious etc. What I will always remember about John McCain was his sense of humor, and a willingness to laugh at himself when presented with his human foibles humanely.
My deepest sympathy to his wife and family.
This one’s for you tonight John, Godspeed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXQrtesxaXE
debit
@Tim C.: Baloney. Emotions are not something we can control. We can control how we react and express them, but a person can’t force sympathy when there is none and trying to shame someone for not having the “correct” emotional response is bullshit.
Mai Naem mobile
I hope Ducey appoints Cindy McCain to finish out McCain’s term but I dont think he owes her anything. I am not sure what Ducey’s thinking will be. He’s running for reelection himself right now in a not easy race, and pretty sure he’s looking out at a 2020 POTUS run and keeping the wingnuts happy.
Doug!
@lamh36:
Yeah, I think that’s right. It’s sad that he spent the last years destroying what would otherwise have been a good political legacy. The Palin pick is unforgivable — as his own campaign manager (who made the pick as much as McCain did) will readily attest.
Brachiator
@dr. bloor:
Nothing that I’ve written about McCain here lionizes him. Nor do I or anyone else here have to alternate a positive note with a detailing of a flaw.
However, some of the most insightful comments I’ve read here have noted what a missed opportunity aspects of his public career had been.
BTW. I am a magnanimous person, but that has nothing to do with McCain.
tobie
I feel very sad about this news. Part of it is the awfulness of cancer and the death sentence that brain cancer still remains. Part of it is that McCain belongs to my parent’s generation and his passing is a reminder of the fragility of those now in their 80s and 90s. And a large part is that for all his faults, and the bitterness that the 2008 Presidential race engendered, he was still committed to public service and to his country and to a vision of the Republican Party that still valued law, norms, and reason.
James E Powell
@dr. bloor:
I vote for the former.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Eighty one yrs old with brain cancer. Glioblastoma is a very aggressive brain tumor. Even with all the know treatments average life span after discovery is 14 months. His was discovered 13 months ago. This is unfortunately the way it often works no matter who gets it and no matter the treatment. Hence my reply to @Ben Cisco:
Emma
I am no admirer of John McCain, but “any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
However, I will say I am very proud of our Democratic ex-presidents for their meaningful and dignified farewells. And to think we had Carter, Clinton, and Obama and we have… the orange excrescence drives me a bit nuts
NotoriousJRT
@lamh36:
I will say this: Lindsay Graham is a prize winning turd and a politician with zero credibility.
John McCain was a flawed individual, but I believe his motivations for serving was at its core, service. YMMV. I offer condolences to those who loved him, and I hope his soul rests in peace.
schrodingers_cat
@Chet Murthy:That’s a gross generalization
NotoriousJRT
@NotoriousJRT: @Brachiator:
Or at least our respect.
Tenar Arha
@Tenar Arha: Addendum:
I will say phuck the cancer that killed him. Compared to my beloved mother, he had 11 more years of a full life than her, born in the same year. But, as she would have taken pains to note, Chelsea was 18 when he made that terrible joke about her.
Ruckus
@dr. bloor:
John McCain was a flawed human. Some would say deeply flawed. But he also did things that many others never did, maybe for the wrong reasons but he still tried to accomplish those things. Take 5 minutes and think about your obit, what people will say about you, after your gone. Good fucking riddance? Or A nice guy? Or Glad he didn’t let the door hit him on the way out? Or a hell of a human being?
BTW most here are not on John McCain’s side. Most of us didn’t appreciate his politics. Many of those giving anything positive are even citing reasons that might call into doubt his humanity. You seem to be trying to play the opposite field here, saying nothing positive about a man who served when he probably could have had bone spurs, who was not a great pilot but went into battle in an airplane. And got shot down and tortured. For 5 yrs.
Think about that. Give him a bit of humanity, if nothing else. He did what he thought was right, even if we thought different. That’s a fuck lot better than literally doing shit for 72 yrs and being proud of it.
suzanne
@tobie: Agree. I can vehemently disagree with his politics while still respecting his public service.
Omnes Ominbus
@SiubhanDuinne: He was the most honorable Republican of my lifetime.
George
@Shell: I’m with you. My dad was diagnosed with glioblastoma in August 2011, had surgery in early September, and then was gone by February 2012. Having watched him slip away as he did, I have nothing but sympathy for the family and friends of McCain because I know what they, too, have been through.
I didn’t agree with McCain politically, but may his loved ones find healing and peace.
Chetan Murthy
@schrodingers_cat: I’m not sure which part you mean: Warsan Shire’s quote, or what I wrote about the Hanoi Hilton?
N.B.: just because I think what he did in the Hanoi Hilton was honorable,doesn’t mean I approve of the VIetnam war. I remember a NYTMag article about McNamara going to Vietnam [for a reconciliation meeting, long, long after] and asking them “we were killing millions of you, why did you resist us so?” And his interlocutor replied “It was a war of national liberation, what did you expect?”
And as I wrote up-thread, none of this changes that he’s a Russian fellow traveler. B/c he *knew*, he *knew*, he fucking *knew* and he went along with the Trumpists anyway.
CHET MURTHY
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, hm, I think you mean the Warsan Shire quote? I think we can give her some room for poetic license, eh? My parents left home too, and India wasn’t exactly the mouth of a shark (certainly not for them).
A Ghost To Most
McCain served our country, unlike Shitler, who served it up to the Russians.
dr. bloor
@Ruckus: Read my initial comment at 105. I have no problem acknowledging the positive, but to say “yeah, that negative stuff, we’ll save that for later” about a man whose mistakes impacted millions of lives is totally disingenuous.
I have no clue what people will say about me after I’ve kicked. I won’t find out because I’ll be dead. But nothing I’ll ever do will affect millions of lives. It’s not unfair, or cruel, or heartless to expect a balanced portrait of a man who was either courageous or vain enough to assume the responsibilities he chose to take on, and who routinely made decisions–even with “integrity,” whatever that means–that made life more difficult and unfair for so many others.
Miss Bianca
@Isobel: Yeah, what you said
Sums it up for me.
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
Just so no one is confused, I was strongly opposed to the Vietnam war, before I joined the navy. But that was one of only 3 courses of action that I felt were available to me. And for better or worse, I chose the course that was most likely to be reasonable for me. We all do this all the time, it’s called survival. Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes we luck out and very occasionally we hit a home run. But others take differing roads and have differing reasoning when they come to that fork that requires a decision. We all do that too. We don’t have to agree with their road taken nor their reasoning but we have to respect them if they do this in a manner consistent with themselves.
Zinsky
I think he was a self-absorbed, spoiled, arrogant prick. And he introduced the unqualified Arctic Skank, Sarah Palin, to the world. But he had courage and he was reasonably consistent, unlike the vast majority of modern conservatives who have no spine, no moral compass and would knock out their grandma’s gold teeth to feather their own nest. RIP McCain…
CHET MURTHY
@A Ghost To Most:
I must beg to differ. Just as “voting for Gary Johnson/Jill Stein” is the same as voting for Shitler, so caucusing with Shitler’s party, is the same as serving our country up to the Russians. He wanted to pretend to himself that he was some sort of Great Patriot. And we can spot him that up until November 2016, he *was*. But since? No, like his cohorts, he’s a fellow traveler of the Russians. At the level he’s at, there is NO EXCUSE for not putting your country over your career, or your vanity, or whatever-the-fuck.
Would we forgive him for voting with Shitler, if the reason he did so was that he’d be honey-trapped? No. That the trap was his own ego doesn’t change it.
All it does, is render the whole thing tragic.
debit
@Zinsky: Do you share very thought you have?
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: Well said.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Ominbus: damn—that is cold!
Ruckus
@dr. bloor:
Did he make those decisions for his wallet or for his beliefs? And no I don’t believe most anything he did. But this is supposed to be a free country and he did things as he saw fit.
But the biggest problem here is that we are so at each others throats that we can’t see the humanity of people? Sure some people have the humanity of a pile of dung, but he wasn’t one of them. As I said originally, he was a flawed human being, no doubt about that. He was a politician who favored things we don’t. He had that right. He didn’t do or even say everything in the best way or manner, no doubt about that. But to stand by his deathbed and shit upon him, to shit upon others who don’t want to do that? To do that one should have to have been perfect their entire life. I sure as fuck can’t make that claim and I doubt anyone else here can either, including you. If I remember correctly you are an actual Dr, ever have anyone die on you? Why didn’t you save them? Because you can’t save them all…. Actually you can’t save any of them. We are giving him the minimum of respect as a fellow traveler on this rock, who died of a horrible illness. Did we like him, mostly no. Did we respect his life? mostly no. Are we going to spend a couple of days giving him the respect we’d like to get for living? Yes, we can always pile on later, he’s not here any longer to care or to cause trouble.
And with that, Good Day to you, I’ve already wasted too much time.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
Wanna bet it was meant that way?
Jay
@Omnes Ominbus:
Faint praise,
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
McCain’s actual history, not a haliography.
Platonailedit
@Jay:
Thanks. I don’t know who Erik Loomis is but that piece has the emperor has no clothes quality to it.
gorram
@Chet Murthy: IMO, McCain’s voting record paints the picture of someone interested in at the very least rhetorical outreach to secular racists – namely the MLK Jr. Day observance vote but there’s other issues too. Much like Bush II and Trump, it always came back to grifting (recall his involvement in the Keating case), but he justified it with Trump-style “folk” politics, and that’s seemingly part of why Sarah Palin stuck out to him as someone to elevate to VP.
He situationally was an inconvenience to Trump and the modern GOP leadership because he was so anti-Russia, anti-Assad, and so universally anti-PRC. Particularly the former is a backer and inspiration to the contemporary seat of power within the GOP, but the latter two aren’t as universally condemned (although, mind you, Trump still bombed Assad and went into a trade war against China). McCain cut his teeth during the Cold War, so that sort of geographic struggle is what he was always rooted in, while the modern GOP has adapted to the post-Cold War era with a metastasized and protracted ideological struggle. McCain’s support for anti-Russian neo-Nazis in (former) Ukraine and anti-Assad quasi-fascists in (former) Syria reflects the same reactionary values, but turned against regimes the current party sees as furthering their interests and values.
It’s a reflection of an incomplete absorption into the modern GOP’s fixation on Muslims, which is a major part of how the collaboration with the Russian and Syrian governments is justified among themselves and to others, which is only possible with a worldview that doesn’t absorb a Rubio-esque “clash of civilizations” fundamentalist Christian framework. He’s still up to his armpits in White supremacist views – from a contempt towards Black people and the civil rights movement, but also Vietnamese people specifically and Asians generally, as well as his support for land grabs against Navajo people. But, he moved directly into that sort of casual White supremacy while most of the rest of the GOP had to seek justification, often through religious means.