Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

You cannot shame the shameless.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Everybody saw this coming.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

This fight is for everything.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

The words do not have to be perfect.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

“woke” is the new caravan.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2018 / Primary Watch (Open Thread)

Primary Watch (Open Thread)

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So, here in Florida, Trump sycophant Ron DeSantis won the GOP nomination for governor. He knocked off Adam Putnam, current ag commish and aspirant for the FL governorship since he was in diapers.

On the Dem side, Tallahassee mayor Andrew Gillum has pulled ahead of former House rep Gwen Graham. Nobody saw that coming!

I like Gillum, but I’m worried he can’t win statewide, and it would be disastrous if the Dem loses in the general. DeSantis would be worse than Scott, which is saying something.

What’s happening in your neck of the woods? Open thread!

Reader Interactions

177Comments

  3. 3.

    johnny gentle (famous crooner)

    OMFG, we’re really going to nominate Gillum, a guy with no money whose office is under FBI investigation? Because why, Bernie said so? Hopefully the magical liberal unicorn-farts are worth four years of DeSantis.

  4. 4.

    mad citizen

    Sad to hear Florida primary votes may have mucked it up–sorry for you guys. Things are fairly quiet in the Hoosier state, but there are nonstop ads for our contested Senate race. Hard for me to take a sitting Democrat Senator promoting how he’s voted for Trump’s wall, etc.

    69 days to November election day.

  5. 5.

    dww44

    Everywhere one turns these days an extremist Republican is beating a less extremist Republican. Definitely true in Florida and Georgia and looking like it in Arizona. It is concerning to me and makes the November elections even more consequential than we thought they would be.

    OTOH perhaps Trump will continue to make so many bone headed decisions that underscore his authoritarian bent, that enough of them might actually do the right thing in the ballot box and vote them out of the majority. I devoutly hope so.

  6. 6.

    chris

    Looking at the numbers it’s going to be tough. Dems have set a new primary turnout record but there are a lot more Repub voters.

  7. 7.

    TenguPhule

    @dww44:

    perhaps Trump will continue to make so many bone headed decisions that underscore his authoritarian bent, that enough of them might actually do the right thing in the ballot box and vote them out of the majority

    Ask for ponies instead. You might get those.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    @patroclus: Gillum worked hard for Clinton in 2016. He’s not some Bernie or bust asshole. But yeah, I am concerned about the general. I think the FBI investigation is bullshit, but it could hurt.

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dww44: Definitely true in Florida and Georgia and looking like it in Arizona.

    No shit? Ward is pulling ahead of McSally? I thought McSally would be safe cause from what I’ve read she’s to the right of McCain and Flake, and I don’t think of either as “moderates”. And I thought Racist Joe would split the crazyass/trump vote with Ward

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    Someone’s internal polling must be very, very bad.

  12. 12.

    Gvg

    Pure guess on my part but maybe more rational …GOP voters are discouraged and staying home.
    What’s Gillum’s office under investigation for? I hadn’t heard that. I just thought his free college was a stretch with all the other problems we have to fix now after republican’s as usual. I want a strong streak of practical things that work. I am sick of republican fantasies.

  13. 13.

    tobie

    Gillum will not win state-wide. The dude is under FBI investigation. In Florida, as in Maryland, the person most likely to win the general (Graham in FL, Baker in MD) lost because they were in a crowded Democratic field, where 3-4 moderate to liberal candidates split 65-70% of the vote, and the Bernista took the remaining 30-35%. That 30-35% is probably also Gillum’s and Ben Jealous’ ceiling. It didn’t help Graham any that most of the Democratic snowbirds are yet to return to Florida from their summer perches and a significant number probably didn’t request absentee ballots. Low turnout primaries lead to weird and sometimes devastating results. I just hope that Bill Nelson will retain his seat in spite of the headwinds against him.

  14. 14.

    quarks

    I’m surprised by the Democratic primary results for the Florida governor race so far. I knew there was more than a touch of anti-centrist, anti-establishment candidates out there, but I thought that would help Philip Levine or even Jeff Greene more than it would help Gillum.

    Ron DeSantis is a terrible choice for governor, no question, and I hope he loses in November, but I can’t help feeling a little joy that Adam Putman’s gun-check failures did have at least a SMALL consequence.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gvg: There’s a public integrity investigation of Tallahassee city hall ongoing. Gillum has stated repeatedly that he’s neither a target nor a subject. The bigger issue, in a general election, will be that the GOP and conservative groups will go after him on the whispered rumors that he’s a closeted bisexual who is in a long term side relationship with another man.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    I hate when our side acts like Fox of the Left.

    In picking Shalala over Richardson, Florida Democratic voters rejected a progressive platform in favor of a safe establishment candidate with a rolodex of donors with deep pockets.

    ThinkProgress

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @quarks: If the Florida Democratic Party is smart, and by all indications for as long as I can remember, there is no evidence of this, they’ll work on Gillum and Graham to form a unity ticket with Graham on the ticket for lieutenant governor.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    @tobie: I’m not ready to give up, but it sure will be harder to elect Gillum than either Graham or Levine. It feels like squandering an easy win.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    Just got back from an afternoon work party at a local tavern. It was fun, but now I’m all tuckered out from the cider and the socializing. More laundry tonight, and cooking one last dish for freezing.

  24. 24.

    Mary G

    Wow, nice “I voted” sticker. Orange County’s are the cheapest ones they can get and half the time they aren’t put in with the absentee ballot at all. The Parkland kids are all posting their votes and I wonder if they skewed towards Gillum.

  25. 25.

    BlueDWarrior

    The more I keep reading these primary results, and a lot of results from primaries and general elections over the last 10 years, the more I believe the problem isn’t even ideology anymore; it’s almost boiling down to a straight up personality fight, and milquetoast personalities are losing on balance.

    Perhaps the problem with Ms (Mrs?) Graham was that she was too… plain? I dunno, but not being in FL means I can only see what other people report out.

  28. 28.

    tobie

    @Adam L Silverman: De Santis will run ads non-stop showing pictures of Gillum, his buddy Corey, and the undercover FBI agent Miller at the Edison–the project Corey is accused of having illegally gotten public funds for. The irony of course if that De Santis has been decrying the deep state in its investigation of Trump but will now laud the FBI in its sting operation in Tallahassee. Gosh, Republicans play dirty.

    @Baud: My only fear with runoffs is that they would exacerbate divisions in a party that is at this point painfully divided. It would be good, though, if candidates with no chance of winning would drop out sooner. I can’t say who that would be in Florida but there were three candidates in MD who each got between 8 and 9% and they should have been encouraged to leave the race.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: I’m hoping it indicates a surge in youth voting, but it’s more likely Graham and Levine split the “moderate” vote.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    @tobie: From what I can tell, it’s next to impossible to get candidates to leave a race, especially at the local level.

  34. 34.

    johnny gentle (famous crooner)

    @quarks:

    I can’t help feeling a little joy that Adam Putman’s gun-check failures did have at least a SMALL consequence.

    Uh, if anything that would’ve been more likely to GET him votes. If you think Putnam’s gun-check failures were bad, DeSantis will make it a feature of his term not to perform the gun-checks.

  35. 35.

    khead

    Planning the weekend. Gonna scope out Delaware Park casino Friday. I want to get familiar with the joint for the upcoming football season – and maybe put a few $$ down on college games while the wife plays slots. Then we are heading to Cape May on Saturday.

    “Lifestyles of the Boring Mid Atlantic Middle Class” – NOT hosted by Robin Leach (RIP).

  36. 36.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Betty Cracker: No argument on that. However, if you’re looking to bind up the party and make sure you don’t get people staying home because their person didn’t make it, this is what you have to do.

  37. 37.

    Matt

    So what you’re all saying is a charismatic African American has no shot of winning Florida…even though two white boring centrists lost previously…we should keep following history and keep nominating White boring centrists…because Florida is moderate and not VERY conservative and VERY Liberal. In my opinion, I’m happy for Gillum for two reasons…One I’m happy that we have someone who might actually turn out minority and young voters and TWO even if he loses he might HELP Nelson turn out voters who may not come out usually…and keep him in the Senate

  39. 39.

    tobie

    @BlueDWarrior: You may be right. I guess the one exception would be Gretchen Whitmer but in Michigan she was actually known as a fierce fighter who had the temerity to use the word “vagina” in the state senate.

  43. 43.

    johnny gentle (famous crooner)

    @BlueDWarrior:

    it’s almost boiling down to a straight up personality fight, and milquetoast personalities are losing on balance.

    Perhaps the problem with Ms (Mrs?) Graham was that she was too… plain?

    It seems women will are set up to lose that battle. Men get to be as loud, brash and energetic as they want. Women candidates are rarely allowed to do the same else they’re labeled “shrill,” “hysterical” or are otherwise not taken seriously. I mean, Clinton simply raises her voice at a rally and all people can talk about is how grating it is. How often do we hear about how exciting or captivating male candidates are on the stump compared to women?

    Graham ran a sober albeit unexciting campaign. She talked about the issues, offered a reasonably progressive platform and handled herself well in debates despite being attacked on all sides. But because she wasn’t showy enough (and didn’t get Bernie’s endorsement), she lost. Gosh, seems perfectly fair!

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Matt: I’m not saying that at all. The voters make the choice. Gillum wasn’t my first choice, but only because of the negative advertising that is going to result from the ongoing FBI public integrity investigation of Tallahassee city hall and the rumors regarding his sexual preferences and personal life. Both of which will be broadly deployed across Florida against him. He and Graham are largely in agreement on almost every issue, so my preference was for the candidate with less baggage that could be weaponized against him or her. I have no real concerns that he’d do a good job as governor, would certainly do a better job than any GOP candidate, and that he’s well qualified for the job.

  46. 46.

    quarks

    @johnny gentle (famous crooner):

    At least here in Orange County a few people said that they were voting for either Ron DeSantis or Bob White (as a protest vote) specifically because Putman had failed to “do the damn job he was elected to do” – referring to the gun check failure.

    Ron DeSantis supports open carry and is very pro gun ownership, but he wants to eliminate the gun checks, not just not bother to do them.

  48. 48.

    Matt

    @johnny gentle (famous crooner): I read that one reason that Gillum got a lot of votes was that he specifically called out and said he would repeal the ‘Stand Your Ground Law’, and that resonated in the African American communities. Sometimes its just about connecting to the issues that voters care about.

  51. 51.

    Matt

    @Adam L Silverman: Well do you think those rumors hurt Charlie Crist or was it more that he didn’t excite and turn out voters…He was under investigation and had sexuality rumors when he ran against Scott…

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Matt: There is absolutely no chance that the Florida legislature will overturn the Stand Your Ground Law, officially doing business as the Baxley Amendment. It isn’t up to the governor.

  54. 54.

    Mary G

    I see on Twitter that Alan Grayson’s comeback bid flopped. So there are some voters with sense in Florida.

  55. 55.

    some guy

    Gillum was Senior Class President at GHS, a fact he reminded the locals when he visited last week. Gillum was the most progressive of the lot, and has a great ground game. In it to win it.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    Not related to primary elections in the US, but I note with annoyance that the BBC site has borked the front pages in its Sport section.

  59. 59.

    some guy

    we had a really nasty primary fight (including GOP ratfuckerry) over which D would get to face the local thug in the State Senate. hopefully everybody gets on board, bigger picture, etc

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Matt: I think it was several things. I don’t think the party switch helped. There was no way he was going to pull enough Republicans to support him and a lot of Democrats didn’t trust him because he had been a Republican. I used to teach state and local politics, for some reason that no one can really explain, at UF when I was both a doctoral candidate and a post-doc there (in addition to my normal courses on terrorism and national security and religion and politics and middle eastern politics) and I can say with complete accuracy and conviction that Florida Democrats are often their own worst enemies when it comes to politics. They’re usually good on the policy, but they have significant issues with the actual performative politics. Gillum seems much better at that. But DeSantis’s campaign, the Florida GOP, and outside GOP and conservative groups are ready to go in the attempt to bury him with oppo. The only outstanding question is whether it will work.

  62. 62.

    BlueDWarrior

    @Adam L Silverman: The statement in the second half of your graf could describe a lot of State Democratic parties. Perhaps we have the ‘wrong’ people who want to become Democratic politicians, but that might be the hardest question of all to answer in the realm of politics.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    @Matt: I was told Ben Jealous’ Medicare for All plan really resonated with voters. It did until the price tag of $24 billion came in in a state with a budget of $40 billion. Now he’s down by 16%. It used to be that we’d elect people because they thought long and hard about what they could do for the people of their state and how to propose things that could be turned into legislation quickly. Now we seem to elect people who make empty promises. I think we’ve witnessed the Reaganization of the Democratic party with the rise of populism. Campaigning with sound bytes, ignoring the hard business of governing. I’ve been upset about politics a lot but never despaired. Tonight I’m despairing.

  68. 68.

    PaulWartenberg

    the best the Dems and Dem supporters like myself can hope for is that the FBI investigation clears Gillum personally.

    the most we can do in Florida is for the LOVE OF GOD STOP REPUBLICANS AT ALL COSTS.

    We have to remember the Senate seat is up for grabs. Rick “NO ETHICS” Scott is polling ahead of Senator Nelson and we sure as hell need to turn out the vote to keep Nelson in the Senate and stopping McConnell.

  70. 70.

    BlueDWarrior

    @Adam L Silverman: If you wanted to play the conspiratorial game, we’re being intentionally sandbagged with a bunch of sad-sack personalities who can’t win competitive elections.

    I don’t play that game, but you wonder why some Bernistas and their fellow travellers accuse the DNC (and other establishment arms) of basically intentionally throwing elections as to not upset the status quo.

  71. 71.

    Ladyraxterinok

    OT–How can Evangelicals support Trump, youbask.

    The same way they suuport preachers charged with child abuse.

    For one of many examples, see today’s post at blog thewartburgwatch.com. SBCpeople are out jn force at trial supporting preacher, NOT victims. They compare judge to Pontius Pilate condrming Jesus.

    Bob Felton periodically posts at his blog another instance of congregation supporting preacher charged with abuse, never the victim.

  72. 72.

    The Dangerman

    I don’t think my local race is all that competitive, but I did get to see the Other Side’s commercial over the weekend. All of it was “MS 13, rapists, murderers, booga booga booga”. I feel so sorry for those of you in competitive races (and Thank Heavens for mute buttons).

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @BlueDWarrior: I don’t think that’s it. Rather, Florida is several states and societies all rolled into one. On the GOP side of things there’s a lot less diversity. So wherever the party is at any given time, the candidate that best represents that is going to win – all things being equal. On the Democratic side, there’s a lot of diversity, but not a lot of unanimity. And usually not a lot of turnout. As a result, whomever on the Democratic side could put together some decent financing and had some name recognition got the nod.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Patricia Mazzei @ PatriciaMazzei
    Graham said she telephoned Gillum, whom she called her friend before, during and after the campaign. “I said, ‘Now, Andrew, go out and win this damn thing,'” she said. “Because this is too important.”

    “I give you my word that anything Andrew, asks of me, I will do.”

  93. 93.

    Patricia Kayden

    @patroclus: I’m fine with Gillum regardless of Bernie supporting him. Would love to see him win in November. I’m more afraid that here in Maryland, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate is badly trailing behind our current Republican Governor. Sigh.

  94. 94.

    Mary G

    They’re getting pretty brazen: Officials in Maricopa County, Arizona, said they would not extend voting hours on election day after voting machine malfunctions led to delays and voters being turned away in some cases. In a statement, they said the extended voting hours “may confuse” voters.

    For those thinking what’s the big deal: Maricopa is the largest county in the US and in 2017 had the highest annual population growth. Their demographics?30% Hispanic or Latino origin.A GOP led state neglecting polls in Maricopa County is a BIG deal.https://t.co/hLQY9o7nQl— Kaz Weida (@kazweida) August 29, 2018

  95. 95.

    Steve in the ATL

    @dww44:

    Everywhere one turns these days an extremist Republican is beating a less extremist Republican. Definitely true in Florida and Georgia

    Who is the less extremist republican in Georgia? They all looked like right wing nut jobs to me.

  96. 96.

    B.B.A.

    New York is going to have an awful governor next year. The question is whether we get an awful Trumpist, an awful triangulator who’ll go light on Trump to look “bipartisan” for his doomed 2020 run, or an awful BernieSis.

  98. 98.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mary G: WHY ARE YOU LYING ABOUT MUSK? HE’S THE GREATEST HUMAN BEING SINCE WILMER. HIS CARS/ROCKETS/HYPERLOOPS/BORING MACHINES ARE THE BEST EVER MADE. YOU PEOPLE SUCK. MY NAME IS BOB AND I LIVE IN PORTLAND.

    PS: I am not a crackpot.

  99. 99.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Amir Khalid: I didn’t ban him.

    He emailed me, I just emailed him back. He’s not a sock puppet and, as far as I can tell, not really a troll. He’s a west coast lurker who is very, very concerned with climate change and sees what Musk is trying to do across his range of companies as essential to addressing that problem. And, as we’ve seen, he’s a wee bit overzealous in regard to that interest. I’ve suggested he make some comments in threads about things other than Tesla, Musk, SpaceX, etc; introduce himself; socialize a bit; and that way folks won’t just jump to the conclusion that he’s a sock puppet troll.

  102. 102.

    Anne Laurie

    @B.B.A.: As a native who fled the state as soon as I legally could: Has New York had a not-awful governor, post-WWII?

    I mean, you have my sympathy, but it’s kinda the Excelsior!* default…

    *state motto, jokingly said to be a euphemism for Bullshit!

  106. 106.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Rare sincerity: Let localities decide. If (and this is the key) the process is fair (fucking voter ID bullshit in WI).

  107. 107.

    Betty Cracker

    @Anne Laurie: Also want to reiterate that Gillum was all-in for Clinton in 2016. He endorsed her during the primary over Sanders and was a Clinton delegate in Philly.

  110. 110.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anne Laurie: Well, for one thing, Soros has funded good government initiatives all over the world. And has also funded a lot of charitable works. Just because someone is wealthy, doesn’t mean they’re terrible people.

  114. 114.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Adam L Silverman: does he have a dog that he rescued? That would be a good way to ease into non-crazy conversation.

    Also, a new nym and a fresh start would probably be a good idea. Perhaps “Steve on the West Coast”? That’s less depressing than Steve in the CLE.

  120. 120.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anne Laurie: Nope, not your fault at all. I’ve gone back and reviewed the comments in that post where he first showed up, I reviewed the ones in the post earlier today where he reemerged, and I read the email he sent to me. I took some time before I emailed him back to make sure I was actually addressing both the issues the regulars are making and his concerns and to propose a solution that would deescalate everything. The ball is now in his court, though if he wears a compression catsuit it’ll upset the French officials.// Hopefully it’ll all work out and we can all move forward.

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mary G:

    Someone should have clued him in that Metro already took care of the problem. You can take a free bus from Union Station after getting off the subway or light rail train.

  128. 128.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Adam L Silverman: OT–I taught at U of FL 65-66. At that time it seemed most of the FL politicians were U of FL grads and rode in tbe homecoming parade. Some tried to control the university newspaper.

    1 thing I learned that year–Gainesville has 4 syllables.

  129. 129.

    dww44

    @Steve in the ATL: Kemp is more extreme, i.e. more Trumpy than Cagle who would have governed more towards the middle. It matters lots because I don’t see that Abrams has much of a chance, particularly if she doesn’t counter those smear ads from the RGA pac and explain about her tax situation.

    Saw a new ad from Kemp today in which the chryon at the end read: Brian Kemp, the “lawful” candidate. Plus someone would really have to show me convincing evidencehat Kemp wasn’t behind the poll closing scheme via the “elections’ consultant that was recommended and hired by Randolph County. He falsely denies being involved in anyway Then, he refuses to step down as Secretary of State and continues to present himself as the anti-establishment candidate. It’s all very worrisome to me. He’s in the Trump mold for sure.

  130. 130.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus: He scoffed when someone suggested he was female in the previous thread. If his nym isn’t pronounced Bess, then perhaps it’s a spelled out version of the letters “B” and “S.”

  136. 136.

    Mnemosyne

    @Some Guy:
    @some guy:

    Oh, sweet Jesus, please tell me we’re not going to have another outbreak of Some Guy, some guy, and someguy all posting from the same state at the same time. I can’t take it right now.

  139. 139.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I voted in Tempe ,AZ. What a fucking shit show.1 hr 35 mins. A Dem county recorder who might get voted out in 2020 if this is not fixed. I was listening to the radio earlier and they said that there were some issues with a contractor not coming through. According to the recorder everything was supposed to have been fixed by late morning. it was not fixed when I went to vote at 6:45. I honestly wasn’t expecting any problems because it was the primary or I would have gone in early for sure.

  140. 140.

    Amir Khalid

    There’s a minor character in the second Cormoran Strike novel that JK Rowling named Guy Somé. Someone should use that for a nym.

  142. 142.

    Yarrow

    @Mary G: That thread is awesome. Love this:

    “Nobody in the neighborhoods this services can even afford a Dodger ticket, dude. What good is a $1 ride if they have to stand outside the stadium when they get here.”

    THIS MAN IS GIVING ME LIFE.

    and

    uh, the comments are abruptly over and the Boring Co people announce you can mail in comment cards as well, and the meeting ends

    and this guy stands up in the back and yells “ARE THE INTERNS GONNA FILL OUT THE MAIL-IN CARDS TOO, ONLY A HANDFUL OF US AREN’T BEING PAID TO BE HERE”

    LOLOLOL

    And of course this was how it was announced to the public:

    Btw, they announced this public meeting *this morning*.

    One of the reporters said it’s required by law. I assume they’re only required to give 12 hours notice and waited until the last minute so no one from the community would actually show up.

    — erinspace (@erinscafe) August 29, 2018

    It’s totally about helping the community. Uh huh.

  143. 143.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: Just because someone is wealthy, doesn’t mean they’re terrible people.

    There was a B-Bro argument buzzing around twitter that Gillum was inherently virtuous and better than the other candidates because he was the only non-millionaire in the Dem primary. I very much doubt Gillum made or would make that argument.

    MSNBC calls GOP primary in AZ for McSally. I wonder if (hope) a lot of the trumpsters stay home, even though McSally is, I believe, a solid Tea Bagger

  145. 145.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mnemosyne: Some guys have all the luck
    Someguys have all the pain
    Some Guys get all the breaks
    SomeGuys do nothing but complain

    Holy fuck, I’d heard about it, but MSNBC just showed the DeSantis ad where he “builds the wall” with his toddler daughter and reads her a “Mr Trump” bedtime story. I wonder if my rich, nutty but trump-hating aunt on Marco Island will vote for Gillum

  146. 146.

    Kay

    Trump’s Student Debt Policies Are Mind-bogglingly Corrupt

    Off topic but I love the title.

    Would someone please run against a Republican with this? Come on. Literally everyone loathes DeVos. You could not have a better villain.
    Elizabeth Warren can’t tackle everything and God knows there’s enough corruption to go around.

  147. 147.

    Adam L Silverman

    From my former colleague at UF (also a really good guy and very sharp electoral politics specialist). And please notice the last tweet:

  149. 149.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Adam L Silverman: We ate a lot at Wolfies. Was told that was a NYC Jewish deli that opened a branch there because so many Jewish students from that city were at the U.

    That was a weird era to teach at the college level. Both there and later (68-69) at Ia State I got guys pressuring me for a grade that would keep them in school. If they didn’t get it, thay would be sent to Vietnam!

  150. 150.

    eemom

    @Amir Khalid:

    But he certainly threatened to do it, and for good reason.

    Really? What “good reason” was that? I thought the only “good reason” for banning on this blog was overt racism, sexism, and other kinds of bigotry. Near as I can tell the only thing this guy did wrong was take up for Tesla/Musk in a way that caused you investigative geniuses to conclude that he must be a paid troll.

    Nice to know that you advocate censorship.

  151. 151.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ladyraxterinok: Wolfies was actually out of Miami. There were several there, as well as Woflies (don’t remember Wolf’s last name) other restaurant, the Rascal House. Which was one of the best kosher delis I’ve eaten at. My Dad cried when they closed the Rascal House even though he hated Miami.

  152. 152.

    Anne Laurie

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed! I’m a Soros fan, despite the fact that he somehow has not once sent me any of those Soros bucks our paranoid opposition keeps discussing…

  154. 154.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @burnspbesq: That guy posted about was a music minister. Music ministers and youth ministers seem to draw creeps.

    From that blog I learned that the SBC has refused to develop a convention -wide data base of problematic people.

    And the truly awful Doug Wilson in Idaho who counseled a young woman to marry a ‘repentant’ sex offender. She did, they had a child, he confessed to desiring the child, judge restricted his interaction with the child to supervised visits. And Wilson defended his advise to the young eoman.

  155. 155.

    Amir Khalid

    @eemom:
    Look in that thread to see the reasons Adam listed. The only conclusion I have drawn about Bess is that he is wifully blind to Elon’s faults.

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    Kyrsten Sinema will be facing Martha McSally. I know Sinema is up right now, but I am not especially confident that she’ll pull this one out. However, McSally beat both Ward and Arpaio. So some good news.

  158. 158.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Adam L Silverman: One of my funniest memories of my year in FL. My now ex wanted to go fishing. He went out to dig some worms and came back with a stunned look on his face. ‘It’s all sand out there!! No dirt for worms!’

  163. 163.

    eemom

    @Amir Khalid:

    The “reasons Adam listed” have nothing to do with the traditional standards of this blog, and amount, again, to dictatorial censorship. Again, how nice to know that longtime respected commenters are cool with emulating the standards of the trump “administration”. Maybe there’s hope for bipartisan compromise after all.

  166. 166.

    Suzanne

    @Yarrow: The scarier thing is that, with McCain’s passing, someone else is going to be appointed to fill that seat until 2020. And our shit-ass governor is apparently going to kiss the asses of the sTrumpets. So cross your fingers that he doesn’t appoint Ward or Arpaio (or Jan Brewer) to the seat.

  168. 168.

    Suzanne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: INORITE?! I am hoping it will be a placeholder-type (Cindy McCain, Jon Kyl, or the like) so that we have time to grow a good candidate for 2020. We only have one plausible Senate candidate this cycle, and she’s already running for the other seat. I think Greg Stanton may have a bright future.

  169. 169.

    NobodySpecial

    @eemom: Exactly no one wants to hear it from someone who tried getting people thrown off the blog during the public option debate. Mote, meet log.

  170. 170.

    Aleta

    @Amir Khalid: @Adam: Here’s what John said awhile ago about the only reason to ban someone. If the blog policy about banning has changed from John’s idea over the years, the rules should be out in the open. Transparency and all that.

    As you know, we have a fairly open and unrestricted comments section. In order to get banned or a time out, you basically have to start yelling racial or sexist slurs or start making threats. I want to keep it that way. I also want people to feel free to speak their mind. I think it is the best policy, and I think it actually brings out not only the worst at times in a community like this (see the last couple of weeks on site upgrade threads), but it also fosters an environment that can bring out the best in people. As we’ve seen, a lot of you have become friends with each other through this website and that has extended into real life. A lot of good things can and do come out of that sort of openness in a community.

    @Adam: Here’s what I’ve always assumed is the blog policy about looking up someone’s IP address and commenting about where they live. Or anything else about them in real life, unless they reveal it. If that’s changed, or you have different rules, it should be written down so commenters know. From John:

    What people know about you will only be what you tell them. I think that’s a good policy and I intend to keep it that way.
    I additionally value everyone’s privacy, and I am not willing to cede that to an outside party like FB or google or disqus or whatever. If you want to be known only as Mr. Fartknocker or something equally stupid, like, say JustSomeFuckhead, you are free to do so. What people know about you will only be what you tell them. I think that’s a good policy and I intend to keep it that way.

    The most important reason to me may be something you all haven’t thought about, but maintaining the comment structure on my end also means that should the feds or any law enforcement try to gain access to information or IP addresses or anything of the like without a reason I deem valid (someone threatening suicide, etc.), I can kindly tell them to fuck right off and then lawyer up, because they aren’t getting shit from me willingly. I’ll burn everything down before I get it. It’s something I feel very strongly about. That is something that is very serious to me, even for those of you who mock me about the surveillance state.

  171. 171.

    Aleta

    @Aleta:
    A privacy policy has been added to the menu here:

    This site allows third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit networkadvertising.org.

    It doesn’t mention the policy for the people who have keys to the blog or other access to servers, etc. For example, can FPers or other workers collect user info for (for example) research projects, blog analysis, etc? Does anyone else beside FPers have access to user data?

  172. 172.

    eemom

    @Aleta:

    @Adam: Here’s what I’ve always assumed is the blog policy about looking up someone’s IP address and commenting about where they live. Or anything else about them in real life, unless they reveal it. If that’s changed, or you have different rules, it should be written down so commenters know.

    Yeah, we sure have come a long way since then, haven’t we? A FPer with a much vaunted security clearance outing where a random commenter lives, and giving him instructions about the right way to comment on this blog.

    He’s a west coast lurker who is very, very concerned with climate change and sees what Musk is trying to do across his range of companies as essential to addressing that problem. And, as we’ve seen, he’s a wee bit overzealous in regard to that interest. I’ve suggested he make some comments in threads about things other than Tesla, Musk, SpaceX, etc; introduce himself; socialize a bit; and that way folks won’t just jump to the conclusion that he’s a sock puppet troll.

    Oh well, let’s look on the bright side: maybe we’re experiencing the 21st century Russian trollbot version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

  173. 173.

    Betty Cracker

    @Aleta: FWIW, that’s my understanding of banning criteria too: racism, sexism and doxxing. I believe malicious stalking can also rise to the level of a bannable offense.

    As far as I know, no one accesses anything other than anonymized data for any purpose, but that’s really a question for John or Alain. If you’d like me to follow up with them, I will.

  174. 174.

    satby

    I’m not sure saying someone is a “West coast lurker” amounts to doxxing. The West coast is pretty freaking big and well populated.

    And people have been given time outs for consistently coming in to derail threads, at least that’s what I seem to remember.

  175. 175.

    SWMBO

    @Betty Cracker: Do you remember the 2002 election with Janet Reno running for governor? Lots of Republicans reregistered as Democrats and voted in the primary. Against Reno. Then they voted for the Republican in the general. This sort of has the same rat fuckery feel to it as that.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Aleta:

    Here’s what I’ve always assumed is the blog policy about looking up someone’s IP address and commenting about where they live. Or anything else about them in real life, unless they reveal it. If that’s changed, or you have different rules, it should be written down so commenters know. From John:

    This hasn’t changed. We have about two banned people – I have no idea who they really are, what they’re names are, if they’re a man or a woman, etc – who have spent months (as in six months for one, about three or four for the other) trying to get back in as commenters. Both were banned for making a combination of slurs against LGBTQ people, overtly racist and/or bigoted remarks, and/or threats when called out on this. In order to ban, or more properly to blacklist folks to use WP’s terminology, we have three choices: the nym they use, their email address, and/or their IP address. In the case of these two persistent trolls, one of the reasons we knew they were the same folks over and over, aside from the obvious clues in their comments, was by comparing their IP addresses as the nyms and email addresses were bogus. And even that isn’t an exact way to do it, but it is the best/only tool to do so. Those with administrator access to the site have access to this information. And since I was the one who banned those two, of a grand total of three people I’ve banned since I came aboard in 2015 (the third was for also making threats), I’m the one who did the comparison as I was the only one monitoring those two over time. Now we have no actual way of knowing if those are the actual IP addresses for these people. They can be spoofed – hence it isn’t an exact science.

    As to last night’s fun and games, when I start getting emails about an alleged troll, or complaints in the comments, the first thing I do is go in and pull their comments/comment history. I want to see how long they’ve been commenting, is the email address legit or look to be legit instead of a dummy address, what the IP is. Since I’ve gotten emails from commenters the last two times that some sock puppet troll had appeared, I went and checked. Legit email. What I wanted was this person’s attention focused. Especially as at least one of his comments last night was borderline threatening, which is how the person it was directed at interpreted based on that person’s response in a subsequent comment. I did get the person’s attention. He emailed me, I emailed him back, and I’ve not yet heard back from him. As to identifying him as someone very concerned about climate change, etc – he provided that information himself in one of his comments. So my repeating it didn’t reveal anything.

    Usually when we have a problem, and when I get complaints, and it is ambiguous, I push it to Cole, which is what I did on one of these over the weekend. Which I’ll follow up on in a day or so as I don’t want to interrupt his and his family’s festivities for his parent’s anniversary.

  177. 177.

    Bill Arnold

    @Adam L Silverman:
    People sometimes get twitchy about even cursory attempts at doxing, and some of us (not just Aleta) remember John’s statement about government access to commenter information, even if it’s just strongly aspirational. One of the things that attracts me to this blog, that and the amazingly free comment sections that somehow work.
    It’s straightforward to use a VPN (or whatever, or stacks of whatever), an anonymous (possibly including genderless) nym, and a for-blog-only secure (relatively) email address. (Only historical accident has me using my real (common) name as a nym.) Little things get some people nervous enough to go down those paths.
    Anyway, thanks for the explanation. (I could go down the Bess path easily; climate change skeptics and delayers of action are gigadeath mass murderers of humans (and mass vandals of the biosphere) in the fullness of time, IMO.)

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