Fun fact!
this is the very first time @NancyPelosi has appeared in the cover of a national magazine. pic.twitter.com/TeCthUEat5
— Zerlina Maxwell (@ZerlinaMaxwell) September 6, 2018
Molly Ball is a good writer, even if Time is a less-than-worthy venue:
Nancy Pelosi stopped caring about what people think of her a long time ago, so she has no qualms about eating ice cream for breakfast with a stranger. Dark chocolate, two scoops, waffle cone. It’s a freezing January morning in Baltimore’s Little Italy, where Pelosi grew up in the 1950s. “You know what’s good about ice cream in this weather?” she says. “It doesn’t melt down your arm while you’re eating it.”
We are sitting in an Italian café on Albemarle Street, alone save for the staff and Pelosi’s security detail, to whom she has offered coffee. The Trump era has many Democrats in a panic, but Pelosi inhabits a more cheerful reality. She is convinced that America has hit bottom, has seen the error of its ways and is ready to put her back in charge.
The 78-year-old former House Speaker knows what her critics say about her: that she’s too old, too “toxic,” too polarizing; that after three decades in Congress and 15 years leading her party’s caucus, she has had her turn and needs to get out of the way. But there’s a reason she sticks around. Had Hillary Clinton won the 2016 election, she says, “we’d have a woman at the head of the table.” When that didn’t happen, Pelosi realized that without her, there might not be a woman in the room at all.
Pelosi is one of the most consequential political figures of her generation. It was her creativity, stamina and willpower that drove the defining Democratic accomplishments of the past decade, from universal access to health coverage to saving the U.S. economy from collapse, from reforming Wall Street to allowing gay people to serve openly in the military. Her Republican successors’ ineptitude has thrown her skills into sharp relief. It’s not a stretch to say Pelosi is one of very few legislators in Washington who actually know what they’re doing.
But few people talk about her in those terms. Instead, Pelosi is regarded as a political liability…
The attacks on Pelosi are particularly ironic in this political moment. Since Donald Trump’s election, American women have poured into the streets, signed up to run for office in record numbers and surged to the polls. Many of them look a lot like Pelosi once did. They are brainy, liberal and comfortably situated moms who have looked at the political system with the exasperation of a person who has seen her husband get the laundry wrong and realized that she’s going to have to do it herself. If Democrats regain congressional power in November, as most experts expect, it will be by riding a tidal wave of female rage. But rather than tout their female leader–the first woman Speaker in history, and the odds-on favorite to reclaim the title–many Democratic politicians, both male and female, are running in the opposite direction. In this season of female political empowerment, Pelosi’s power still rankles.
It seems to enrage people that Pelosi feels entitled to things: money, power, respect. Of course it does–a woman is always held responsible for her reputation. Clinton, in her years running for President, was asked over and over again some version of the question, Why do you think people don’t like you? (Despite not being on any ballot, Clinton, too, figures prominently in the Republicans’ fall campaign strategy.) A powerful woman is always defined less by what she has done than by how she makes people feel.
Pelosi isn’t humble. Many women, she thinks, are afraid to show pride and need to see an example of confidence. Besides, making sure you get your due isn’t something you can delegate. One former Pelosi aide told me everything she does is rooted in this combination of obligation and entitlement: the sense that someone ought to do something, and she is the only one who can do it. Pelosi seems to feel no need to apologize for her status in the way women are expected to and men rarely are. Perhaps the assertion of ego by a woman is the most radical act there is: the refusal to submit or be subordinate.
It is not in Pelosi’s nature to cower or grovel. She will be who she is–liberal, privileged, unpopular–and let the chips fall where they may. To some Democrats, Pelosi’s is an attitude of unconscionable selfishness: she’s willing to damage her party to hold on to the position she believes she deserves. The story of Nancy Pelosi is, inevitably, the story of what people think of her. The way she is recognized and remembered, the way she is held to account. And so Pelosi doesn’t have the luxury of not caring about what people think of her: it’s the question on which her future, and the future of American politics, depends…
When things get really, really ugly, the Media Villagers and their donors will ‘graciously’, temporarily, allow a woman to leave her proper place and come clean the place up. Or, sometimes, a Black man, as a less-emasculating alternative. Hey, speaking of the cleanup squad:
New: Barack Obama to unveil 'pointed' midterm message on Friday in a speech that people close to the former president say will be a more direct rebuke of Trump's first years in office https://t.co/ZixDWPwxLQ
— Dan Merica (@danmericaCNN) September 6, 2018
Schlemazel
I have this lovely dream where Speaker Pelosi become the very first female POTUS in the summer of 2019. Even if her term was only a few months it would be firring & good.
Schlemazel
make that fitting & good
geg6
Got into a gigantic FB fight with a bunch of so-called liberal/progressive men over her last night. Not one of them had a substantive argument against her. Oh, the butthurt when I told them what sexists they were!
geg6
I am in moderation because I mistyped my email address. Please to be getting me out.
Chetan Murthy
NANCY SMASH!
Smedley Darlington Mingobat (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
We really need her. I know there’s no such thing as an indispensable woman–or man–I think it was Charles de Gaulle who said graveyards are full of indispensable men, but as long as she’s with us, why would we want to go with anybody else? As a purely practical thing, it isn’t like some other numbnut as speaker would get a pass from the Republicans. Anybody who ends up as a Democratic leader is going to get all kinds of shit flung at them by Republicans. Flinging shit is what they do. The belief that if we only run our leaders by them for their say-so they’ll hold back is delusional.
satby
This.
OzarkHillbilly
Long may she reign.
Mary G
Good to see her finally get the recognition she deserves. And dark chocolate ice cream is delicious in any weather.
Mustang Bobby
@satby: And still pay her 79 cents on the dollar compared to a man.
OzarkHillbilly
Yes, that’s why it’s sinking with an 18″ lean. I wonder how much the contractor is paying him?
raven
Sunrise yesterday.
MagdaInBlack
She had me at “ice cream for breakfast.” ?
MagdaInBlack
@satby:
Its always our job to ” clean up after the elephants.”
?
bjacques
The latest story seems to be that she’s the face of the DNC, and her presence and possible re-election as Speaker are keeping away the younger, more progressive voters. The Blue Tsunami will therefore fail, continues the story, and it will be on her and the corrupt DNC. People near and dear to me believe this, without any shred of evidence.
And here I thought only Rep. Pelosi’s constituents and then the members of the incoming Congress will care about such things. She can’t be much of a damper when Democrats of all stripes are winning races one after another.
Immanentize
@raven:
Ahh, the splendor.
satby
@geg6: most of them never grasp that their basic assumptions about life come with sexism and misogyny baked in. For that matter, a lot of women never grasp that either; it’s just “the way things are”. At 79, Pelosi was an adult before “women’s lib” was even a movement, but if I can remember some of the bad old days of pre-liberation, she remembers all of them.
satby
@MagdaInBlack: @MagdaInBlack: INORITE?
Immanentize
I’m a big Pelosi fan. People say (complain?) she is a San Fran liberal. I know, that is where she is now. But she is just an old school eastern urban Democrat to me. And we could use so many more of those folks.
satby
@raven: gorgeous picture! Did your princess take that of you fishing?
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Nice.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
That is super-double-plus spectacular!
Immanentize
Anyone remember this map of Reagan’s Map of the World?. It’s funny how much GOP sliding is still based on it, other than the USSSR of course.
p.a.
For the polit-junkies: I love N Smash, but at 79 is there anyone on the bench who can replace her when the time comes with anywhere near the effectiveness?
satby
@bjacques: @Immanentize: it’s frustrating to me that in the rush to name new politicians to follow and promote that people forget how much value there is in someone who knows how to get things done. And has lived through all the changes that younger people (and here I mean <50) take for granted and think are permanent.
I've told younger people that the forced birthers would work on limiting contraception as soon as they succeeded on gutting or overturning Roe. The younger women couldn't believe that could happen, but recent events have started to wake some people up. I went from a tinfoil hat person to a prophet, but anyone who remembers the pre-Griswold years can perform that simple trick.
Baud
@bjacques:
2016 taught me that culture is different than, and more fundamental than, policy. There a lot of people who are more progressive than me when it comes to policy, but are culturally attracted to right wing themes and use them against Democrats.
Fuckem’
Matt McIrvin
@Immanentize: One big, big change is that California isn’t Reagan’s California any more–the liberals won there.
satby
@p.a.: I think Kamala Harris is coming on strong, but she’s a Senator. We have room for both, it doesn’t have to be a binary choice.
debbie
@satby:
And when she accomplishes the task and they’re done with her, they go right back to slapping her down even further than before.
MomSense
Through the friend of a friend I just discovered a woman who designs and makes “merit badges for the trump era” that people can wear with “snarky pride”. They are fucking brilliant.
If you are on Instagram you can find them at the # which is all the words I put in quotes without the spaces. I’m going to order some right away.
debbie
@raven:
Nice!
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@geg6: Perhaps they were sincere sexist liberals but I’m always suspicious of “I’ve always voted Democrat but … [insert Republican talking point]”. Just trolls, Russian or domestic.
satby
@debbie: nobody appreciates mom until they don’t have her around to fix things any more.
debbie
@p.a.:
Of course there are, and I’ll support the first one who aspires to the position without slamming the current leader.
Waldo
At this point, even the most dire misgivings about Nancy pale in comparison to the daily realities of Trump. That won’t stop the GOPers from running anti-Nancy ads, but that sh*t won’t sell like it used to.
satby
@Mustang Bobby: my first inclination was to look for the like button for this ?.
Somebody wastes too much time on FB. I need to reevaluate my time.
MomSense
@satby:
And similarly, I’ve been frustrated that people’s eyes glazed over when I used to discuss access to contraception. Even with Griswold, women have been going without because they can’t afford it. Oral contraceptives and IUDs aren’t cheap and require a prescription. In non medicaid exoansion states and without the ACA, this is an insidious problem.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: “merit badges for the trump era”
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Smedley Darlington Mingobat (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I agree. The mess that Congress is going to have to start cleaning up, the number of horrible policies to start undoing, is depressing. We will need a Congress which can pass laws at an unprecedented pace as opposed to the full-stop-do-nothing pace of the last 8 years. While running the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that goes back at least to Reagan. We need the full treasonous record, in writing.
That means we need a strong Speaker, and she is the best we’ve seen in a long time.
Plus, people like Pelosi and HRC are taking fire for just being competent women, that is breaking trail for the next generation.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: In non medicaid exoansion states and without the ACA, this is an ingenious solution to the problem of keeping poor women in the kitchen.
FTFY.
mad citizen
I love Nancy and hate hate hate the villification-branding of her name over the decades. I was driving to work yesterday and three lanes over on the interstate an SUV is carrying two large white magnetic signs. “Mike Braun US Senate 2018” OK, nothing strange, he’s the trumper business guy running against Joe Donnelly in Indiana. Then at the bottom, “He works for you. Not Pelosi”. I just had to laugh. If that’s the main argument, they aren’t left with much.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
rikyrah
Love me some Nancy Smash ?
Never forget…
She is always Nancy from Baltimore ??
Kay
@Baud:
That’s true but it also true that establishment Democrats (I am one) spend too much time telling voters to “defend” this or that (Social Security, Medicare, Roe) and not enough time on new ideas. They’re too slow to recognize new(er) issues for people- college debt is a good example, the cost of child care is another. This is not true of PELOSI, however, who actually stays really current so I think the attacks on her are not well informed and based on her chronological age rather than her relevancy which is just silly and shallow. It doesn’t matter how old she is as long as she keeps addressing new problems, and she does.
Betty Cracker
My district is represented in the House o’ Reps by Vern Buchanan, a corrupt shit-stain who ran out and bought a yacht on the same day he voted for the Trump tax bill, which benefited him hugely since he’s one of the wealthiest members of congress. Buchanan won in 2016 by 20 points in this heavily Republican district.
He has a new challenger this year, David Shapiro, who was within striking distance in one recent poll. Unfortunately, Shapiro felt the need to crap all over Pelosi yesterday, saying he won’t back her as leader. He did this after Buchanan ran an ad calling Shapiro “Pelosi’s hand-picked puppet.” I think it was a chickenshit move.
I’ll still vote for him, of course, but I do wonder if he’s reading the room wrong. This district skews older, so I doubt there are scads of young folks demanding a change in the leadership of the Democratic Party. And anyone who would not vote for Shapiro because they’re afraid he would vote for Pelosi as House leader ain’t gonna vote for him anyway, IMO.
I’m sick of arguing with people about women politicians who have become hate-fetish objects, largely due to sexism. It’s completely exhausting. I plan to take a break from it when the election is over.
Baud
@Kay:
All I can say is that defending Social Security and Medicare was a major theme of progressive blogs I follow, so I don’t know if you can put all the onus on “establishment” Dems.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I love Pelosi. I am Pelosi. For that matter, I’m HRC too, the smart, hardworking, capable woman born into a world in which that meant she could be the Executive Secretary rather than the plain Secretary. As I watched Harris and Booker at the Kavanaugh hearings, I thought about how women and minorities have to be better, much better, to achieve the same thing an average white man does.
On a related topic, Scalzi analyzes the last 20 years of presidents today and concludes we don’t do it well. He says a handy rule of thumb at the moment is figure out who the average white dude is voting for and vote the other one.
OzarkHillbilly
The spitball lies at the heart of baseball cheating lore, but the rubber ball has place there too.
Well played sir, well played.
Kay
@Baud:
Here’s one that’s on the horizon. I supported Obamacare. I enthusiastically supported the Medicaid expansion which was life-changing for millions of people. But health insurance for people with private coverage is getting worse and worse and more and more expensive so if establishment D’s believe Medicare for all is unworkable or politically impossible they gotta come up with something else. Because this isn’t working for younger people.
EZSmirkzz
Good morning AL. I have absolutely no doubt about Nancy Pelosi’s willingness to push a more progressive agenda than she is given credit for. Schumer, excepting Wall Street reform, is too. In any case you go to work with the tools you have, not the one’s you wish you had.
Obviously my passion for writing and politics has declined over the last three years, but I will advise everyone, including commenters here at BJ, to find your principles and stick to them hell or high water, and raise a ruckus when your elected representatives try to compromise with their counter parts across the aisle, as they did with the ACA. , https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/6/1793687/-Trump-s-morning-tweets-show-House-Republicans-trying-to-help-him-out-but-it-s-too-little-too-late I cut and paste myself, you cannot compromise with a ball of water moccasins. Don’t even try, don’t even think about it.
Freshmen congress critters are easier to roll, so hold their feet to fire, and support them with your principles, but don’t back down like happened in 2009 and 2010. I’m spending a lot more time with the millennials and don’t doubt for a second their passion and willingness to work their asses off to obtain their goals, so do a little exploring and find out what they want and help them to achieve their goals. Don’t believe the bullshit that passes for conventional wisdom on the kids. They are looking, like many others, for a reason to believe in our system of government and economics, and it is our responsibility to address those concerns in thoughtful and energetic way. Nous dormons sur un volcan… Ne voyez-vous pas que la terre commence à trembler. Le vent de la révolte souffle, la tempête est à l’horizon. In a democracy you end up with the government you deserve. We, our children and grandchildren need to make that clear in the next six years.
Baud
@Kay: They’ll come up with something. I doubt it’ll be a single payer plan though. We’ll see if people have learned not to be petulant about compromise.
rikyrah
Kavanaugh put Trump sycophancy ahead of defending the judiciary ??
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/09/kavanaugh-trump-sycophancy.html
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
It isn’t working for some of us older people either.
Kay
@Baud:
Republicans are co-opting it, they are lying, but they are co-opting it. That started in 2010. 8 years ago. Republicans in Ohio ran on “Obama is cutting Medicare”. In 2010. We still don’t have a response and a counter. Trump is now doing it, as is Scott in Florida.
I’m not defending Lefties. I’m asking establishment Democrats- I am one- to get better. They have to get better. They can’t stay the same. They could actually listen more to Pelosi, who started offering college cost solutions way back in 2006.
The only area I focus on age in numbers is the SCOTUS, which I know is an unpopular opinion but to me is an unavoidable fact- really old SCOTUS justices should step down when a Dem is President IF they want to be replaced by a liberal. If they don’t care then they don’t care, and they can certainly stay on since them’s the rules, but this is a fact. Have to retire when a Dem is President or there is a very real and high risk they will be replaced with a conservative.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Asked and answered.
Betty Cracker
@OzarkHillbilly: We pay more for the coverage we get through my husband’s job than we pay for our mortgage. And it’s not even good coverage — it sucks!
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Absolutely. I’m shocked at what some of them are paying. WITH insurance. Obama said (rightly, I think) that people with health insurance wanted to keep “their plans” and I think Obamacare was (rightly) designed to not rile up people who have health insurance who would have freaked out thinking they were losing something, but as is usually the case they’re going to end up losing “their plan” anyway since “their plan” will start to suck.
Baud
@Kay: Republicans always co-opt Dem policies during the election. Remember Bush’s compassionate conservatism? They know their agenda doesn’t sell.
low-tech cyclist
@Betty Cracker:
It’s fucking ridiculous, it really is. For >25 years, all one had to do was mention Hillary to the wrong people, and it was like a pop-up Two-Minute Hate, only it usually ran way past two minutes. The whole “Lock Her Up!” business just made it official. (It still pisses me off that the media didn’t make a bigger deal over that – how far out of bounds, how much of a threat to our democracy, that sort of thing was.)
I can understand why candidates from the Scared Rabbit Party wing of the Democratic Party are still running away from Pelosi. It’s unfortunate, but it’s just not the hill they’re ready to die on. What gets me are all the lefties who say it’s time for her to step aside. OK, for whom??
Steny Hoyer’s just as old, has way more baggage from a lefty POV, and he’s just as devoted to the PAYGO self-sabotage as Pelosi is. (I’m glad he’s my Congressman, otherwise we’d probably have a Republican representing southern MD, but I don’t want him in the leadership.) People had mentioned the long-serving nonentity that Ocasio-Cortez fortunately knocked off – never did understand that boomlet.
Pelosi may not be one to give inspiring speeches – so what? did anyone expect that of Paul Ryan? John Boehner? Dennis Hastert? – but she’s good at rallying her caucus, getting 218 commitments to vote for a tough bill, and then pulling the trigger and getting it through. (I’m still impressed that she passed a cap-and-trade bill back in 2009.) Who do her Dem/lefty critics have that’s better? She’s the fucking champ, she is.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: @Kay: I am delaying shoulder surgery because the MRI cost me $1,000. I can’t imagine what actual surgery might take. The arm (they just fixed) and a leg? My first born male child?
Kay
@Baud:
A positive example of Dems responding and countering effectively would be the quick turn they did on voting rights after the VRA was gutted. They switched gears and started expanding voting access at the state level. Offense, not defense. It’s not a fix, obviously, the whole point of federal civil rights laws was they are national, but it is a new idea and a real response.
danielx
Good on Pelosi. If she wasn’t effective there wouldn’t be so many people who want her to go away.
Baud
@Kay: Seems like a lot of blue states have really stepped up to the plate in the past couple of years.
EBT
@satby: Every single trans woman in the country ought to change their name to Cassandra right about now.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Right and it’s a real dilemma for Democrats because health care is an industry that has a broad base of middle class jobs. Health care does NOT operate on the model where CEO’s and managers get the lion’s share. There are a hell of a lot of good jobs in that sector. So it’s tricky for Democrats because there’s this huge army of technicians and other support people who make a good wage.
Ken
I doubt Trump will read the Time article – it’s not got his picture on the cover – but I like to think of him throwing a tantrum because Pelosi got two scoops of ice cream. That’s what shows he’s special From now on, three scoops with every meal!
Kay
@Baud:
If you have a referendum process you can put it on the ballot even without a D state government. Michigan just did. They qualified one yesterday. Ohio has a ballot process – I wonder if Pennsylvania does. My daughter votes in PA and their state law is archaic. They need expanded absentee balloting.
OzarkHillbilly
On all the DEM candidates who say they will not vote for Pelosi as speaker, as Nancy says, “I don’t care, just get elected.” If that’s what they think they have to say to win in a lean Red district, who am I to find fault with it? They will deal with the leadership issue when the majority is in hand. And if, for whatever reason, Nancy isn’t the Speaker? I’m pretty sure she will work hand in hand with whoever is to get the DEM agenda accomplished.
I just hope they don’t pick somebody other than her because of Repubs frothing hatred. Nothing worse than letting your enemies pick your leadership.
Baud
@Kay: I’m hoping the Florida referendum on voting rights passes. That could be a game changer.
Kathleen
@Kay: I don’t think that applies to Hillary either.
NotMax
@Ken
Will he read it? Nope.
Draw a mustache, goatee and devil horns on her picture on the cover? Good – nay, excellent – chance of yes.
Kay
@Kathleen:
Hillary actually was ahead of the game on voting rights. She was working on it as a Senator, about a decade before it became a huge area of concern for mainstream Democrats- AA Democrats always knew it was at risk. One of the hardest losses for me with her losing was there- she would have been great and FEDERAL, which is the gold standard.
Chyron HR
@Kay:
I don’t have my copy of the Little Bernie Book handy, but I’m pretty sure those people are parasites and must be purged for the sake of our revolution.
OzarkHillbilly
Trickle up economics.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Woah, that is not the same place at all!
Haroldo
Dunno, but I’m increasingly of the mind that ‘sincere sexist liberals’ vs. ‘trolls, Russian or domestic’ is a distinction without a difference. In practice, does a person deal differently when faced with Type A or Type B? Is ‘ fuck ’em’ a nuanced thing?
low-tech cyclist
@MomSense:
I’ve been saying for awhile that the Dems ought to propose single-payer birth control.
1) Single-payer health care in general isn’t going to happen overnight, because of the cost issues. But we could do this There are roughly 75 million women of child-bearing age in the U.S., and if it cost $1000 per woman per year, that would be $75 billion. (This is a back-of-the-envelope WAG. Might be higher, might be lower.)
2) Covered: the pills/IUDs/implants/(any other proven BC method) themselves, and the exams required before the doc will write a prescription for them.
3) No woman would ever again get pregnant because of inability to afford birth control.
4) Hobby Lobby would be meaningless. Even overturning Griswold wouldn’t touch this.
5) There are still plenty of working-class/lower-class women out there who don’t think there’s much reason for them to vote. This might convince some of them.
MomSense
@low-tech cyclist:
Let’s add the HPV vaccine for women and men to this list.
Baud
@low-tech cyclist: I don’t disagree with the proposal, but I bet it would cause a lot of “progressive” guys to go apeshit.
Matt
So she’s advocating for reinstating PAYGO because she *wants* to? That kind of fiscal stupidity is why she’s gotta go.
Baud
@Matt: She stays.
tobie
@Kay:
You can call it regulation or consumer protection but that would be an answer. As far as I can tell, regulating an existing industry is a million times easier than switching 110 million Americans who receive their healthcare through their employer to a public system overnight, or ensuring that doctors, clinics, dialysis centers, acute care facilities, and labs would continue to get paid at agreed to rates in the event of a major shift or what I would prefer to call a systematic earthquake.The Bismarck model has worked fabulously and cost effectively in Germany and Switzerland. Why can’t it work here?
Betty Cracker
Something funny from Trump’s ego rally last night:
The guy was eventually asked to move. Hahaha!
NotMax
Found on Amazon Prime, The Boys. One for the curio cabinet, of interest to fans of tense courtroom stories and/or now obscure British dramas. A period piece, suspended as firmly in its time (1962) as is a fly in amber.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: Heh. I thought they lacked a little punch, certainly didn’t tickle my funny bone.
Steeplejack
Note for those concerned about Pelosi’s age: please get it right. She is 78, won’t be 79 until next March.
You know who will be 77 years old then? Mitch McConnell. But I don’t hear any clamoring in his party for him to get his old ass out of the way and make way for younger leaders.
I’m not a fan of old codgers staying on too long, but Pelosi is still very much is possession of her (considerable) faculties, and any wannabe successor is going to have to make a better case than “She’s old!”
Maybe the concerned Republicans could start by cleaning up the array of doddering feebs on their side of the Kavanaugh hearing yesterday. Chuck Grassley: 84 (85 in ten days!). Orrin Hatch, 84. John Cornyn, a spring chicken at 66, so apparently just stupid, not senile.
Chyron HR
@Betty Cracker:
TFW you realize that the Deep State has turned your virile God-Emperor into a hideous Swamp Creature.
Chyron HR
@Matt:
“Money is free! Billion dollar coin! @JusticeDems said so!”
tobie
@tobie: I should add that in terms of campaign slogans I’m fine with healthcare is a basic right, not a privilege and universal, quality healthcare. I also fine with the Stacey Abrams/Sharice Davids/Hillary Clinton approach of saying, sure, Medicare for All is the goal but in the meantime we should do x, y, and z to make sure everyone has quality, affordable coverage. I heard an interview will Gillum where he did essentially the same. He even said he wanted to create good jobs in Florida with health benefits from the employer. So people who are serious about policy give serious answers.
Frankensteinbeck
A handful of never-satisfied, mostly misogynistic idiots and the entire news media hate her. Republicans hate her. I have seen no evidence she is unpopular with Democrats, only that Democrats have been convinced she’s unpopular.
@Matt:
She’s advocating it because she wants to raise taxes on rich people.
@Kay:
There is no response and counter. That’s why abusers do it. When someone tells you the sky is orange, and you’re standing outside and both of you can see the sky is blue, there is nothing to be done. Pointing at it and saying ‘It’s right there, look at it’ doesn’t work. They’re already lying to your face.
kindness
I read several liberal/progressive blogs every day. I am ashamed at how many prominent blogs (no names, you all read them too) where good little liberals have taken the Republican smear points about Nancy Pelosi and run with them like they were real.
The media of course will fall for it because if it isn’t a horse race it isn’t worth covering. But fellow liberals? Damn. Some are trolls of the Russian variety, some are trolls of the Republican variety and some are just trolls who lost their bridge to haunt.
rp
@Chyron HR: Actually, I think it’s more “TFW you realize you’re not getting paid enough to pretend to cheer for this moron.”
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie:
You have to ask? (for the record, of course it would work here… if Republicans and Libertarians all suddenly dropped dead of a mass aneurysm at the mere mention of the Bismark model)
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly: And you think Republicans and Libertarians will happily go along with Medicare for All? The strongest argument I’ve seen for Medicare for All is that a partisan Supreme Court couldn’t whittle it down as they did with Obamacare (ending mandatory Medicaid Expansion, allowing for religious exemptions etc.). The practical solutions are staring us in the face. But Republicans don’t want practical solutions, so we’re going with a hugely expense systemic overhaul that in the long run may be good but in the short run will be chaotic. I hope, to give one example, the dialysis patient who has only one private dialysis center in her rural community can still get service during the transition.
kay
@Frankensteinbeck:
Well, okay, but then we can get rid of the entire political campaign team in the Democratic Party because nothing can be done.
They’re really going to let the GOP co-opt Medicare as a campaign issue? One of their two signature social programs – hugely successful and wildly popular?
They have to get better at this. Constantly. Always. It’s after Labor Day in a midterm year and Republicans are rolling out a national strategy to claim they are the protectors of Medicare and Democrats have no way to counter it? Even after Republicans did the exact same thing in 2010? This has nothing to do with Left vs Establishment. The establishment are supposed to be GOOD at this- that’s why we keep them around. If they’re not good at it there’s no reason they should stay in charge.
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie:
No. What, in anything I have ever said anywhere, gave you the idea that I thought that? Or is it just some words you wanted to put in my mouth?
The only thing Republicans believe in is money and their fevered acquisition of it. In their minds, the only reason for a healthcare industry is the accumulation of wealth and anything that gets in the way of that goal is to be stopped dead in it’s tracks.
That includes anything that ensures healthcare for people who can’t pay for it.
Kay
@Frankensteinbeck:
And before anyone blames Medicare for All for giving them an opening recall that Republicans did this exact same thing on Obamacare. Their main line of attack on Obama as far as campaigns was NOT expansion of health care. It was Obama will cut Medicare.
So we knew this. 8 years ago. ANY Democratic proposal on health care will be met with “they’re stealing Medicare!” because that works. They’re not even that clever! They do the same fucking things again and again and STILL we can’t counter. Why?
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly: No, I didn’t think you believed Republicans would like Medicare for All. I was trying to say that if they get an aneurysm at the mention of the Bismarck model, Medicare for All would make them completely apoplectic. The irony of all this is that their intransigence when it comes to regulating the insurance industry is making single-payer more of a reality. There is some poetic justice in that.
EZS,irkzz
Not sure if this applies more to #15 or the network’s morning news shows; https://www.therichest.com/technologies/15-traits-youll-find-in-people-you-cant-trust/
We distort, you deride!
Just Chuck
Would we ever see this sort of language about a male politician? Even the women writers, FFS…
Ella in New Mexico
@rikyrah: Will it matter that he is proven to not only have lied to Congress in the past, but to be outright lying this week in his responses? I mean really, how hard will it be to get someone to leak that they were the real author(s) of his ” “No president has ever consulted more widely or talked with more people from more backgrounds to seek input about a Supreme Court nomination.” bullshit? That was clearly nothing a person wanting to be considered a serious, honest, impartial jurist on the SCOTUS would EVER want to say–unless directly dictated to do so by the benefactors who got him there.
Uncle Cosmo
@rikyrah:
Cosgn, with gusto, & long may she wave!
Just FTR that “Italian café on Albemarle Street” is almost certainly Vaccaro’s, where Baltimorons have been getting their Italian-sweets fix for dogonlynose how many years. It’s about 3 blocks east of the Inner
HorrorHarbor & worth the walk. Many evenings there is a line outside. Their cannoli cake is 2Die4 (literally in the case of us diabetics); one featured prominently in Mom’s 100th birthday party.(Pro tip for you ‘merigani: To validate the cannoli you ordered, stick a fork vertically into the dead center. If it comes out with traces of cream, you’re good to indulge; if not, raise hell – you’re paying for filling all the way through, not just a spoonful at each end!)
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie:
Indeed there is.
satby
@Kay: you don’t think this looks like a counter to Republican spin?
rikyrah
Obama speech to urge big Democratic turnout in November elections
James Oliphant
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Former U.S. President Barack Obama will warn Democratic voters in a speech on Friday that the stakes are too high to sit out November’s elections when the party is seeking to wrest control of Congress from President Donald Trump’s Republicans.
Obama has largely avoided the spotlight since Trump succeeded him last year. But Friday’s speech at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign will mark the start of a flurry of activity as he hits the campaign trail in coming weeks on behalf of Democratic candidates.
On Saturday, Obama will appear at an event in Southern California for seven Democratic candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives in Republican-held districts that backed Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton over Trump in 2016, putting them high on the Democratic list of targets.
Obama travels next week to Ohio to campaign for the Democratic candidate for governor, Richard Cordray, a former Obama administration official.
Later in the month, he is expected to campaign in Illinois and Pennsylvania, the latter state being critical to Democratic hopes of picking up the 23 seats needed to win a majority in the U.S. House of Representatives and put the brakes on Trump’s agenda.
Gelfling 545
@p.a.: Sadly, I think not. Of course this is partly be ause of the sheer volume of her experience and others can learn but I doubt very highly we have another like her in the wings.
oldgold
@kindness:
And some want to win in pink and purple districts in order to gain a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives.
Emma
@Betty Cracker: You and me both.
Chyron HR
@Kay:
Gosh, isn’t there a member of the Democratic senate caucus who appointed himself the sole champion of socialized health care? Do you suppose at that one of the stops on his nationwide
20202018 campaign tour he might spend a few minutes countering the Republican lies? Or on one of his many, many TV appearances? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see!Aleta
That should be relaxing.
“I said . RELAXING! Not cracking, RE- LAX -ING!!!”
OzarkHillbilly
@Just Chuck: I say these kinds of things about myself all the time.
Just Chuck
@Matt:
PAYGO is a rule that can be and has been suspended before. She’s not an inflexible ideologue.
Steeplejack
@Uncle Cosmo:
The last time I was in Baltimore I got some very fine goodies at Vaccaro’s, after a very fine lunch around the corner at Amicci’s. Need to get back!
Yutsano
I’ve said it once. I’ve said it a few times. I’m gonna say it again.
She.
Is.
A.
Nonna.
Nonnas get shit done.
Kay
@Chyron HR:
Well, I don’t accept that. I feel like that’s a red herring. Again, if you want to be “the establishment” what you’re offering is expertise- you’re supposed to know how to do things. If they’re saying to me “it’s impossible for the campaign arm of the Democratic Party to hang onto the politics of their signature issue because of Bernie, because of media, because of whatever-the-fuck is this year’s obstacle” then maybe they should be replaced because there’s nothing to lose.
I exclude Clinton from this because the media hatred of her was bizarre and unprofessional and who the hell knows what sleazy machinations were going on with Trump- she really did get a bad hand.
kindness
@oldgold: You act as if getting the Democrats to vote for Democrats is all up to Nancy. Damn buddy, this is the exact bullshit I made my point about. That you don’t see yourself as being a purveyor of Republican bullshit….well, I just can’t help you there.
Aleta
@raven:
Linda Greenlaw answering a question
Leto
@Kay:
Yes they should! Where would the court be today if it weren’t for Justice Garland’s crucial swing vote… oh wait…
Emma
@Kay: We can’t counter it because the opposition has spent decades pulling all the resentment voters into a no-information bubble of bad schools and Fox news and the media has worked damn hard to keep them in it. We lose them when we talk crazy crazy stuff like benefiting everyone equally because they have been conditioned to hear “everyone” as “everybody except white people.” Really, we’re fighting against the wrong target when we fight them. The real enemy is the fascist mega-rich and their media enablers.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: It won’t fit on a bumper sticker like “LOCK HER UP!” does.
Kay
I saw Elizabeth Warren told political reporters she would do “hallway” interviews with them. If she didn’t agree to that they were going to tank her campaign, so I think it’s smart.
Once again this is about them. I’m not happy about it but I want to win and if assisting in their careers is the price of that we should pay the price. But it’s gross.
As our magistrate says when she’s indulging my rants “objection noted- sit down now”. NOW! is what she means although she’s too polite to raise her voice :)
Nicole
@Betty Cracker:
This this this. And one of the most frustrating parts is the refusal to see how pervasive sexism is. I eventually checked out of the thread I was commenting on yesterday, but I remember you calling someone out (I don’t remember who, so don’t come at me, bro) for describing a woman politician as “hysterical.” Because I think the person truly didn’t understand why that kind of language matters, and I suspect the reason they didn’t see why it matters is because they’ve swum in this language their whole life. But it’s a sexist term and it says something about how the person who uses it perceives women, even if that person isn’t consciously aware of it. And it’s important to keep calling it out. I’m sure, 20 years ago, some person truly didn’t understand why “uppity” is a racist word when used to describe someone African American. I mean, hey, they’d use it to describe someone white! Except 1) They probably never did, any more than someone today uses “hysterical” to describe a man’s behavior and 2) Even if they would, the word is DIFFERENT when it’s used to describe someone African American. You cannot separate the word from its biased past, anymore than someone can slap a swastika on their jacket and say, no, really, they’re using it in the Hindu sense of the symbol. Maybe they are, but that’s not what the symbol represents to a Western culture anymore and they are showing, at the very least, an incredible disregard for their fellow humans. Words are symbols and symbols have power and we have to be willing to take all of it on.
But sweet Christ on a pogo stick, it’s really exhausting. And it’s a painful process and people don’t like to feel pain. Hell, I stuck my foot in my mouth with a good friend this past week and while I apologized and she’s okay with it, I’m still feeing terrible about it seven days later. On the bright side, it’s a verbal gaffe I will never, ever make again. But it was a painful learning experience. And pain is scary.
So I don’t blame you for taking a break from it after November. But I’m grateful that in the meantime you keep fighting the good fight.
Also, one of the little things I adore about Nancy Smash is that right wingers refer to her by her last name. You get referred to by your last name when people fear you.
glory b
@Chyron HR: I wondered about that too. In Pittsburgh, there are a LOT of younger people, and especially people of color, who work in those jobs. Even the customer service type jobs are paying pretty well, if you’re a single mother with an associates degree and one or two kids, these jobs will keep you out of poverty and if you stick around long enough, pretty middle class.
Each morning I see lots of them catching buses downtown and wearing ID cards for UPMC, Highmark, Gateway Healthcare, etc. What will happen to them? No one ever mentions that.
Kay
@Leto:
Oh come now. Obama got two justices. He coulda had three had there been some timing planning. They can stay on the court. What they can’t do is tell me they aren’t taking a huge risk that their replacement will be a conservative, because that’s not true.
I myself would step down and hand it off to protect whatever gains I had made and was proud of- I think that just makes sense, even from a personal level. They’re mortals. This cannot be denied.
Nicole
@Kay:
Because, for all that he’s painted as the big bugaboo best friend of Obama and Clinton, the Right is much better at employing Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals than the left is. I recently read Rules for Radicals (long story as to why, but suffice to say it involves a right winger), and I think it’s a pretty good read. Of it’s time (1972) but still very applicable. One thing that struck me was his assertion that the opposition needs to be demonized. The Right has no problem with doing this. They’re happy to. The Left- oh, unless its one of our own, it makes us VERY uncomfortable to paint someone as all bad. The response to the Right’s threats about Medicare is, “Republicans are lying to you. It’s all they ever do. They lie and they steal.” No interpretation, no “well, some Republicans…” Or, “Well, but technically such-and-such law was passed because…” They lie and they steal. All of them.
Our willingness to think the best of people is why John McCain gets all the praise for “saving” Obamacare, when, in reality, he only did as good as the worst Democrat did.
oldgold
@kindness
No, I see myself as a purveyor of political reality in pink and purple Congressional Districts.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Feature, not bug. ; )
Can you tell I have just about had it with “progressive” men? It’s been really, really disillusioning to me to see guys whose opinions I used to respect regurgitating the standard right-wing talking points about Pelosi and HRC and anybwoman, frankly, who pushes their “you’re not the boss of me, Mommy/bitch!” buttons.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
Racism, Kay. Hate. You’re seeing it around you. Republican voters want to believe that they’re better than us, and have wanted it more and more desperately as minorities creep into the public view and towards equality. We can tell the truth all we like, as convincingly as we like – all they need is one person to tell them what they want to hear, and they will go looking for that person if necessary. I must stress that the large majority of national news people are in this group, so television and newspaper pushback is relatively feeble. It’s worth arguing the truth, but you will have to accept that a simple, easy, blatant lie from our enemies will instantly convince a vast swathe of the country. This has been true for decades, at least. It’s just getting really obvious now.
Humans are not rational animals. We are animals capable of reason.
rikyrah
Nixon’s White House counsel to testify against Kavanaugh Friday
Rachel Maddow alerts viewers that among the witnesses to testify in the Brett Kavanaugh nomination hearing on Friday will be John Dean, Richard Nixon’s former White House counsel, who will speak against Kavanaugh’s views on investigating a president.
Mandalay
@Just Chuck:
I think you have completely misread Ball’s comment. She was not referring to Pelosi at all; she was referring to women (collectively) who have become politically active because they have are sick of the way men have dominated the political process and been screwing things up.
rikyrah
Democrats aim for potential cracks in GOP support for Kavanaugh
Rachel Maddow outlines the strategy by Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee to highlight specific problems with Brett Kavanaugh as a Supreme Court candidate that have the potential to turn some of their Republican colleagues to vote no.
Kathleen
She was also planning to deal with impact of AI on jobs and economy. She was overly prepared to deal with all the issues. Did you read What Happened?
Sister Golden Bear
@EBT:
Truth.
I was warning people, but did they listen… As someone else said, I went from tin-foil hat crazy to prophetess.
Matt McIrvin
@Mandalay: Yeah, but that metaphor… it stuck out to me too.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud: Then we can throw in Viagra coverage too. Because it’s all about the menz…
Chyron HR
@Kay:
Okay, sure, the Vile Establishment–which is an entity wholly separate from the guy who got 40-some percent of the vote in the 2016 Democratic primaries and is considered the party’s 2020 frontrunner–needs to do more to counter GOP bullshit.
Is it too much to ask that the self-appointed leader of the party also defend socialized medicine–his signature issue–at least once in a while?
Kathleen
@Kay: Argh. Double post. She was also planning to deal with affect AI will have on jobs and economy
She was overly prepared for all the issues.
rikyrah
Kavanaugh denies discussing Russia probe with Trump lawyer’s firm
Senator Kamala Harris talks with Rachel Maddow about Brett Kavanaugh’s evasiveness on whether he discussed Robert Mueller’s Trump Russia investigation with anyone from the law firm of Marc Kasowitz, a lawyer retained by Donald Trump.
burnspbesq
@debbie:
Name two.
Immanentize
@Kay: Justice White, who was appointed by JFK, was no friend of my issues. But he waited much longer than he wanted to in order to allow a Democrat (Clinton) to fill his seat. That is I expect what was going on with Kennedy as well. Waiting for a Republican President….
Thomas has teased retiring and as I have said before, Alito (now 68) is a rage monkey. That said, Roberts (now 63) is epileptic. The court will change again over time, but I think we have learned how far the right will go to stay in power.
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay:
Because the haters don’t want to – and won’t – hear counter-arguments. They are impervious. They want to hate. Trying to win them over is a waste of time and energy. In my state, Dems are targeting the infrequent Dem voters, the people who self-identify as Democrats but typically don’t bother to vote in mid-term elections. There are lots of them. We have a positive message – education, healthcare, jobs – and are communicating the urgency of VOTE. I view that as a much more fruitful strategy. November will be the proof of the pudding.
schrodingers_cat
You don’t have to get to Nancy Pelosi’s station or age in life to not give a damn about what people think about if you are to survive as a woman who knows her own mind and takes her own decisions. I have had to be like that since I was a teen or younger.
When you are female everyone and their mother has an opinion has an opinion about what you wear, your hair, how you speak, every step you take and move you make is up for a critique.
Immanentize
@Frankensteinbeck:
Imagonna use this in my criminal law class Monday!
Elizabelle
@O. Felix Culpa: Exactly. Go for the persuadables, encourage them, and don’t waste time on those who wish to remain obtuse. Life is short.
I do think we have more persuadables than they do.
rikyrah
@low-tech cyclist:
That’s a good idea.
rikyrah
Swalwell: Kavanaugh ‘the wrong judge at the wrong time’
Rep. Eric Swalwell talks with Rachel Maddow about why the Trump Russia investigation should not just preclude Donald Trump from naming a Supreme Court justice, but should also rule out Brett Kavanaugh.
Sep.06.2018
rikyrah
Overlap in Kavanaugh nomination, Trump Russia probe becomes clear
Rachel Maddow points out that between the selection of Brett Kavanaugh for his position on presidential prosecutions and the choice of a lawyer for witnesses in the Trump Russia investigation to process Kavanaugh documents, the Kavanaugh nomination and the Russia investigation are more related than they appear on the surface.
Mandalay
@Baud:
What a bizarre comment.
Miss Bianca
@oldgold:
A “political reality” that just happens to reside in fantasy – conjured out of baked-in misogyny and right-wing spin. But of course, you “realist”, you!
Leto
@Kay:
Gorsuck. Kavanope is still a high probability. So it is true. You continually talk about the need to recognize when things change. How “norms and standards” are just that… until they aren’t. Even when it’s codified into law, Republicans will still violate it. What price has Republicans paid for holding that seat open for a year? What new “norm” did they just establish in that action? Do you think they won’t use it again when they eventually regain control of the Senate, or for some damn reason still hang on to it in 2018 and 2020, when we hopefully take it back? The new rule is simple majority. Are you sure we’re going to have that in 2020? Are you sure we’re going to have Dem as president, and in control of the Senate?
1) this entire argument is ageist as fuck. 2) You’re not actually proposing a good method for determining if they’re still capable of functioning in their job. If you had proposed cognitive tests, sure, maybe I could get behind that. But you’re not. Their job is to sit in a chair, listen to people, and then think through a problem. They’re not in a physically demanding job.
Basically what you’re stating here is a you want a version of Logan’s Run for our judiciary. That’s silly.
burnspbesq
@oldgold:
That’s hilarious.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Pelosi certainly been the most effective speaker then Tip O’neil and she’s managed to do it without being labeled a bitch or a softy. No mean achievements for a women politician these days. On the other hand it does testify why the Democrats in confusion is media BS because her caucus is willing to be led.
And the fact that Trump is so desperate to get on the cover of Time makes this extra special.
Kay
@Leto:
I am allowing a way to determine. I’m saying they can choose. I think Ginsburg should have retired when Obama won the 2nd time – obviously she doesn’t agree. Everyone is admitting this is an issue without admitting it. Obama didn’t appoint 80 year old justices.
Are you telling me age is NOT a factor when they’re appointed?
It’s not personal. It’s just a fact. Ginsburg bet on Clinton winning and she lost that bet. There was no reason to take the risk other than reasons personal to her and I think on this issue her wishes are less important than whether the decisions survive.
It’s the work. It’s not the person. That’s her legacy. That’s what will last.
Gin & Tonic
@Sister Golden Bear: Word. I work with someone who was transitioning in 2016. In a workplace where people really don’t ever discuss politics (well, almost never) her sense of shock and grief the morning of November 9, 2016 was overwhelming and palpable.
(Side note on usage, meaning no offense – at that point she was still identifying M, so could/should I have said “his sense of shock” above?)
(Other side note – as admin of several systems here, I know exactly when the M-F official transition was, as I got surprisingly bogged down in the technicalities and unexpected inconsistencies of name changes.)
Yutsano
@kindness: Gonna make a bet right now. I bet we don’t lose a single seat because of Nonna Pelosi. I’ll even put a fiver on it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Why We Can’t Have Nice Things, Part The Infinitieth
Kay
@Immanentize:
I want everyone to stop pretending they’re not political. They’re political. If we don’t want them to be political set up a different system but within the system we have timing is a factor. I want them to limit as much risk as they can, reasonably. Obviously they’re not taking my direction but that is what I want.
I like the mandatory retirement age in Ohio. It works. Judges got together and put an initiative on the ballot to get rid of it and it went down in flames, so I’m not the only one who thinks it’s sensible.
Miss Bianca
@Yutsano: I’m with you on that one.
Nicole
@Kay: I think that strategizing made sense 20 years ago, or even 15 years ago, but the GOP has shifted from a party attempting to govern from the other end of the spectrum to one actively engaged in a slow-motion coup. McCain said, before the election, if Clinton won they’d block any USSC appointment for her entire term. I am sure, if Ginsberg retired as soon as Obama won his second term, her seat would still have been open in 2017, and we’d be saying Justice Gorsuch right now and would have been for some months.
This is a coup, and the GOP has no interest in abiding by any rules. So how do you strategize when the other side is playing Calvinball? Ginsberg made the right call.
kindness
@Yutsano: I love me some Nancy Smash! One of the main reasons she is so vilified by conservatives is she’s Rosie the Riveter. She gets shit done. And the right goes low by slandering a successful woman because it is the easiest option. And then ‘others’ repeat it for their own (sad) reasons.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: I felt like that and the Muslim ban enacted immediately after T took office proved that I was not wrong.
Leto
@Kay:
You didn’t state that in your original argument. You stated, Get old, get the fuck out.
What’s a factor when they’re appointed? Granted, this is based off the wiki of their page but:
The justices that you would typically look for are on the older side. Bold part of that quote is mine. Except now, with Republicans doing all they can to ensure their survival, are nominating younger, more unqualified justices, in an attempt to preserve power. And they’re going to keep doing that because it’s the courts that have lasting impact. Are Dems doing the same on this? Now that the power dynamic (norms/standards) are changing, are we doing that? Are we nominating younger people?
53 is the new norm when justices are appointed? I don’t know about you, but that’s old. That’s still considered old in our society. We should want older people on the court as they have more experience dealing with all sorts of cases. They should have substantial depth of experience. I don’t want them arbitrarily removed just because you’re trying to impose some type of artificial limit on them. Give me the facts: are they physically impaired? are they mentally impaired? If the answer is no to both, then what’s the problem?
If we’re dealing with facts, 50 y/o’s have a higher chance of dying than 20 y/o’s. If you’re over 50, I suggest you pack your bag, head to the retirement home, and start polishing up on your Hearts game. You need to make room for all the youngin’s to come do your job. It’s not personal, just the facts.
Everyone thinks this. Every judge thinks this (as well as scientists). It’s hubris of the highest order. If “the legacy” is what endures, “the work”, we wouldn’t have to keep re-fighting the same battles over voting rights, reproductive rights, human rights… nothing is forever. Nothing.
trollhattan
@OzarkHillbilly:
Nice! They could use a Space Force Summer Camp edition.
Leto
@Kay:
We’re taking your direction but the game has changed. @Nicole: lays it out here. The game has changed and we need to change with it. I’d love for a 1 for 1 swap. It’s not guaranteed. Trying to say it is is ignoring reality.
How does this square with your, “I want a D for a D” philosophy? (I don’t know Ohio judge seating process) Does the governor appoint judges? Are they elected? When a D judge retires, is it a guarantee that a D is seated in their place? Also what’s the retirement age? Also what happens to those old judges? Do they move to private practice? Retire out to pasture, never to be heard from again? Are they still consulted by other judges? I’m curious on this part.
Kay
@Leto:
Leto, I don’t know how ot make this clearer. I wanted Obama to appoint another 50 year old. I don’t think it’s “ageist” to admit that they’re human beings with lifespans. Obviously I don’t get what I want but portraying this as some personal nastiness on my part ignores that this a real thing.
What do you think they’re doing when they DON’T retire when they want to because they’re waiting for another President? They’re planning for their replacement, which makes sense and is what I would do. “Lifetime” doesn’t have to mean one literally stays there until they die and no one can even mention that there are other options.
If it matters I think Scalia stayed way too long too and I could never fucking stand Kennedy so he couldn’t get gone fast enough for me. I don’t owe them this elaborate deference. They’re smart lawyers. There are a lot of smart lawyers.
Uncle Cosmo
@Elizabelle: I would love to see a letter go out from the DNC, oh, a week before the election, to registered Democrats & independents/decline-to-states in blood-red districts all over the US, stamped on the outside PLEASE READ THIS – WE’RE NOT ASKING YOU FOR MONEY. Maybe in the form of a “personal note” from, oh I dunno, Uncle Joe Biden would be a good voice:
A few folks here have pointed out that canny Democrats like Claire McCaskill routinely stump through blood-red sections of their constituency, not to win majorities there but to encourage the minority that is on their side – to lose those areas 40-60 instead of 20-80 or 10-90.
We need to do much more of that. Let our supporters in “enemy territory” know we know they’re there, we understand their dilemma, and we don’t ask them to do more than their civic duty. Forget about converting the Trumplorables – we should be working to chip our supporters one by one out of the matrix of hatred they feel cemented into. Their votes count too. /jmo
sdhays
@Kay: What pisses me off is that it shouldn’t be RBG’s or Kennedy’s or Scalia’s right to decide when they retire and who picks their replacement. Supreme Court Justices are incredibly powerful and are essentially completely unaccountable once they’re appointed, which should be enough power, I think. But we also give them the power to decide when they’re done and who picks their replacement.
I think we should have long terms and maybe allow the President to reappoint sitting Justices without having to go through the confirmation process again, but it should always be clear that every Presidential term will have an explicit opportunity to affect the Court. This also allows elections to more predictably control the makeup of the Court.
Omnes Omnibus
@Leto: I agree with your general point, but 53ish is reasonably young to have picked up the kind of experience that would qualify someone for the job. It is not as though it is hard physical labor.
Elizabelle
@Uncle Cosmo: Two weeks or slightly more. Gives time to request an absentee ballot in many localities, in event voting on Election Day might be difficult.
But yes, agree with you. I think yours is a wonderful letter, and, frankly, why couldn’t we send out some of these ourselves? It’s the message, not the sender.
You’ve hit the right tone. Voting is that existential.
Kay
@Leto:
Actually if we’re going to get into my personal choices, I would have liked if Barack Obama – THAT President- had gotten more and timely openings.
That woulda been nice for his legacy and I think he picked solid, smart liberals who have only surprised me in good ways.
Better than I thought they would be.
rikyrah
Today I’m at the University of Illinois to deliver a simple message to young people all over the country: You need to vote, because our democracy depends on it. I hope you’ll tune in at 11am CT: https://t.co/34WjNaVAcU
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) September 7, 2018
rikyrah
Planned Parenthood cared for veteran Kelly Gregory after every insurance company turned her away when she found a lump on her breast. She’s telling her story to warn against Brett Kavanaugh pic.twitter.com/rby0w82BW1
— NowThis (@nowthisnews) September 7, 2018
Elizabelle
PRESIDENT OBAMA ABOUT TO SPEAK AT U OF ILLINOIS NOW! Would be a great new post.
Here is audio via WDWSAM radio.
Brachiator
What? Funny, I somehow had assumed that she had been on the cover a few times over the years that she has been kicking butt in Congress.
I mean, shit, Paul Ryan has been on the cover, and he was even a runner-up for person of the year in 2011.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I’m glad he’s back. I may travel to his Ohio rally, just for old time’s sake. The ’08 primary and general was the best presidential elect of my life. Maybe you only get one like that- there was so much joy in it.
Elizabelle
Yea! It’s on MSNBC streaming too. Love having the audio, though, in case MSNBC starts yakking. As they are wont to do.
Obama says it’s good to see Illinois, and good to see corn again.
Leto
@Kay: Ok, so another 50 y/o (so further lowering the average age). What age do you want them to retire? Should their be a constitutional amendment for this specifically? What age do you think someone becomes incapable of doing their job?
I keep seeing people, on this blog, talk about how growing up in this culture blinds them to misogyny and sexism; is the same true of ageism?
But that’s the literal definition of “lifetime”. the duration of a person’s life. Or were you going for the secondary definition, “the duration of a thing’s existence or usefulness.” Which again, you run into ageism. But that has better measurable qualities in terms of mental/physical capabilities. This also runs into, “What did the Founders mean?” We would probably need to enlist the help of the lawyer who did the massive research on the emoluments definition for the Trumpov emoluments lawsuit.
Does that mean we can’t talk replacement? No. But lifetime is lifetime.
Yeah, there are. And some of them are old and still perfectly capable of doing their job.
@sdhays: That’s a constitutional amendment involving multiple thing. Get the votes necessary to pass it. Shouldn’t be hard in this climate and with this congress.
jc
Dems bring a butter knife to a gun fight. Obama delivers a “pointed” message, while Trump spews broken glass in every direction.
J R in WV
@MomSense:
Why stop there? All vaccines should be free, and any exam or tests related to a vaccine. It’s the most cost effective medical procedure ever, and saves lives even of those not vaccinated!
Kay
@Leto:
You said I want a date certain for them to retire. I said I would prefer if they would plan their retirement with an eye on the White House, in a reasonable fashion, perhaps as one of their personal factors. Which many of them have done, either overtly or quietly. I prefer that approach. Plan beats no plan. This is selfish. I admit it. But again I’m not actually her personal friend and I’m not all that invested in her career plan. I DO have an interest in that court, really whether I like it or not.
sdhays
@Leto: Anything to do with the Supreme Court, other than setting the threshold for consent in the Senate, will require a Constitutional Amendment. I never said that it was an easy fix, just that it was the right one.
The problem isn’t that our Justices are too old, it’s that they have incentives to stay beyond their sell-by date and there is no mechanism to stop that. Their sell-by doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with age – Clarence Thomas was past his sell-by date when he was appointed. People should not be allowed to squat in one of the most powerful positions in the country based on their own whims (even when we might personally agree with this or that whim). It’s undemocratic.
We the People should have regular, predictable opportunities to control the Court. That would resolve these issues, and it would provide a reliable mechanism for dealing with corruption as well – in today’s system, a Supreme Court Justice could probably do just about anything and not even be impeached, let alone removed from office.
Leto
@Kay: FYWP ate my entire comment, so round two:
Obama had a chance to fill hundreds of more important positions at the lower level but what happened? Again, Republicans. Trump/Yurtle have been filling everything at a breakneck pace which will have more meaningful consequences for decades to come. Those are lifetime appointments too: any clamor for those to have age limits? We’re focusing on the 9 when the hundreds have more power, and affect more people, directly, every day.
If you want to propose an age limit, fine. But will they be able to get the experience necessary and still have a good number of years left to effect positive change? I ask this because the right put that infrastructure in place a few decades ago with The Heritage Foundation and The Federalist Society, and those are working for them and producing tangible results.
Kay
@Leto:
The reason it matters for THEM (and not for someone like Nancy Pelosi) is because Nancy Pelosi re-applies for her job every two years and then she has to get elected to leadership. If Pelosi were appointed by the President I would have wanted her to retire during Obama’s 2 terms and Pelosi being Pelosi (she always struck me as a very smart, sensible and strategic pol) she might have. It doesn’t say anything about ageism and work. There are no private sector jobs like these jobs.
Sister Golden Bear
@Gin & Tonic: Referring to pre-transition pronouns can be a tricky issue, and when possible I’d take your cues from the trans person involved.
As a general rule though, I’d use whatever pronouns they’re using now, so “she” is appropriate — she was always “she” even if pre-transition others thought she was “he.”
That said, it can cause some confusion when referring to gender-specific stuff — e.g. I was an Eagle Scout, which obviously isn’t something available via Girl Scouts — so sometimes using pre-transition pronouns are needed for clarity. But every trans person has differing levels of comfort with that, so again best to follow their lead when possible.
Kay
@Leto:
State court judges do it all the time and everyone knows it. If Cordray wins in Ohio you’ll see a bunch of D judges retire because he’ll appoint an interim replacement. They could have retired when Kasich was in! They’re planning and plotting, thank God.
We were all mad at Strickland because he had R judges retiring or dying and he didn’t appoint D’s in deep red areas because he decided to be bipartisan. We wanted to wring his neck. We weren’t short of qualified D judges. There’s a pool.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
@Leto:
FWIW, I wouldn’t be surprised if RBG was toying with the idea of retiring towards the end of Obama’s term, and then she saw the obstructionism that happened with Merrick Garland and was like, “Nope! Waiting for it to be safe!”
And then, like all of us, her plans were crushed by Trump’s “victory,”
Leto
Man, FYWP is doing a number on me today:
@Kay:
No, that was you when you replied to Imm:
I like the mandatory retirement age in Ohio.
and also your original thesis:
really old SCOTUS justices should step down
That’s a date. An age can be a date.
If you do have an interest, why are you trying to sideline our most effective judge/s? Again, you stated:
We’re playing a new game. There are no more guarantees. If we can be 100% sure, fine, swap’em out. Otherwise until they can’t perform the job, leave’em be.
@sdhays:
That’s not what was originally proposed.
People should not be allowed to squat in one of the most powerful positions in the country based on their own whims
We the People should have regular, predictable opportunities to control the Court.
Leto
@Kay: Didn’t know that about Ohio. Neat. Also since January of 1975, you’ve had 2 Dems in office versus 5 Repubs. How’s that working for your courts, overall? Seems like the voters keep saying bring me more pain please.
@Mnemosyne: I agree, that’s what it seemed like. Her plan, my plan, all of our plans crushed by Tangerine Menace.
Leto
Also my kingdom for an edit button.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@sdhays:
The size of the Court is set by statute.
J R in WV
@Kay:
QFT. I worked phones for both those elections, and for Hillary. At first working for Hillary was very much like other elections which were fun… then many people quit showing up, as the RWNJ propaganda being force-fed to all Americans via TV news, Then we lost that election, and given the situation in Congress, even if Hillary had won, we would be been are a standstill between American politicians and RussoRepublican traitors.
So now we have a chance to fix Congress, first, and then the Presidency. Work hard. I’m old and that, so mostly I support congressional candidates with money. And we are lucky to be able to afford to do that.
Trying to oust Nancy Pelosi is crazy. Rejecting any strong Democratic becasuse of BullSHit is Crazy, just what the RussoRepublicans want us to do. I would work for and vote for Hillary if she won the nomination a second time. Anyone but Bernie, who is not A Democrat, barely an American.
I got to run errands, see you all this evening. Cant wait to see what happens next! Crazy interesting times! Scary but interesting.
Gin & Tonic
@Sister Golden Bear: Thanks for that.
cleosmom
@low-tech cyclist: For >25 years, all one had to do was mention Hillary to the wrong people, and it was like a pop-up Two-Minute Hate, only it usually ran way past two minutes.
Of course, this is a woman with decades in public life who’s never, ever, ever given the courtesy of a last name. Not even from supporters. And every woman Of A Certain Age experienced that every time they went to see doctor.
An annoyingly pompous online acquaintance mansplained this as being “her brand.” Didn’t say which rump it’s on.