if WH staff is leaking that he didn't have good answers, that's a huge red flag https://t.co/0oZavwrLgt
— Eric Schultz (@EricSchultz) September 22, 2018
White House is either lowering expectations or lowering the boom. https://t.co/b9Ivkocwll
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) September 23, 2018
Per the Washington Post:
Just as he did several weeks ago to prepare for his confirmation hearings for the Supreme Court, Brett M. Kavanaugh was back inside a room at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building — again facing questioners readying him for a high-stakes appearance in the Senate.
This time, the questions were much different. An array of White House aides, playing the role of various senators on the Judiciary Committee, quizzed Kavanaugh last week about his sex life and other personal matters in an attempt to prepare him for a hearing that would inevitably be uncomfortable…
The epicenter of the scramble to rescue Kavanaugh’s nomination was inside the second-floor office of outgoing White House counsel Donald McGahn — the nominee’s lead champion in the West Wing who, in coordination with Senate Republicans, had helped engineer a rapid transformation of the federal judiciary and was about to secure a second seat on the Supreme Court for President Trump…
Democrats are also plotting their own strategy for the hearing. Furious about Grassley’s decision to limit testimony to just Kavanaugh and Ford, Democratic aides planned to find other potential witnesses — such as a trauma expert — who could help bolster their case.
If they couldn’t be heard under oath, Democrats discussed holding news conferences where those other experts would speak, aides said. A top priority, according to Democratic officials, was ensuring Ford felt supported, whether it was having enough friends and family in the hearing room with her or finding people who can speak publicly about Ford’s character…
When your own side starts leaking about how badly you did on their “murder board” of prep questions, your nomination has one foot in the grave. https://t.co/5SiOe4MIiv
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) September 23, 2018
[Warning: Linked media in the following tweet NSFW]There are a whole lotta Republicans who are suddenly going to start asking why they’re setting themselves on fire for Brett Fucking Kavanaugh.
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) September 22, 2018
Reports that Kavanaugh is getting frustrated at being interrogated about his private life. Take a look at the questions he wanted asked of Bill Clinton.https://t.co/DUZyOyiToC pic.twitter.com/J1j074hm8V
— Mark Elliott (@markmobility) September 22, 2018
Professional GOP (Never-Trump branch) publicist:
I, for one, would like to know why people close to Kavanaugh seem to have taken actions that kind of suggest that they knew Dr. Ford's allegation was coming. I would also like to see Dr. Ford testify about it so we have some further certainty. https://t.co/Y5g6VyKBjq
— Liz Mair (@LizMair) September 23, 2018
debit
I hope they just pull him. The idea that Dr Ford could (and should) go ahead and start an investigation should have sounded the death knell right then and there.
xenos
Democrat’s promising to pursue the investigation into Kavanaugh, Whelen, the Senate committee staff and the white house are being taken seriously.
They know that they are losing the House, and they do not want a new, fresh issue here.
How much damage does 45 face for pulling the nomination? IT is reported that he would lose the trust of the evangelicals, but I really do not understand those people or why that would be the case.
debbie
@debit:
No. I want him at that table and humiliated. From Mark Eliot’s tweet above:
I want Kamala Harris to handle this line of questioning.
Jeff
@debit: The gop keeps pushing what they can get away with.
Booger
Wow! Those questions from ’98 REALLY scream projection, don’t they?
debit
@debbie: Me too, but I would spare Dr Ford the same. You know they’re going to try to wound her as badly as they can. She’s been through enough.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m starting to wonder if I can blame my heart attack on this administration.
NotMax
“Have you ever had sex?”
“I refuse to answer a hypothetical.”
debit
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I certainly do for my incipient cirrhosis of the liver.
debbie
@debit:
I would bet witnessing his humiliation might have its rewards for her.
TS (the original)
@debbie:
I took a look at the questions he wanted to ask Bill – and that cements the idea that there is much more to come out about this nominee and his relationships with women.
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I just went to the Doc and they say I have hypertension. It’s in my family, but I have a lot healthier habits than my sibs — but all this Trump stressed piled on top of life stressers. I am sure it is a contributing factor.
Immanentize
@NotMax:
Oh, that is good!
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
I’ve been saying since I first saw him at the announcement that the guy’s pallor and facial puffiness give him the look of a heavy drinker. His sketchy finances are also a major question that seems to have slid under the radar for now. He bought a $1.2 million house without a dime coming out of his personal savings. Also paid for a $92K initiation fee to Chevy Chase Country Club, again a transaction that does not show up in any of his financial accounts. Also the huge credit card debt that mysteriously disappeared, again without any decline in his personal savings. All of these transactions exceed the amount of a financial gift one can receive without declaring it as income on one’s income taxes. The best case scenario is that his parents are bankrolling him, but even so, I assume they made is tax returns public and the payments should be declared on those forms. If they are not, he’s guilty of tax evasion. If that money was coming from somewhere other than his parents, what did he promise his benefactor in return for those large gifts of cold, hard cash. Has he been selling verdicts from the bench? He is after all a sitting judge.
Also that email where he apologizes for losing it after a game of dice, with the (don’t recall) after indicates he may have lost his temper with some buddies while blackout drunk and is apologizing because someone told him about it the next morning. Alcoholism isn’t disqualifying if someone has sought help and is in recovery, but it doesn’t seem like that is the case with him. He seems like a guy that really shouldn’t be in his current job much less up for a promotion.
And none of this gets to the attempted rape stuff, or whatever else might be lurking in the shadows wrt any other proclivities in that direction he might have.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I blame the political situation for contributing to my heart problems.
Ella in New Mexico
@debbie: Kamala Harris, pro-choice, feminist, woman of color who is a former prosecuting attorney grilling him on his sexual and personal behaviors.
My sweet Lord. Karma is real.
MomSense
I can’t believe they thought he would do well answering questions on their murder board since he did so poorly during the hearings before the questions about sexual assault.
I heard that the Harvard Law students are asking that his class be canceled so he can be fully investigated.
Frankensteinbeck
@xenos:
I understand the evangelicals. They are the most whiny, entitled little shits in the world. They believe they are owed absolute power over everyone else to an extent that surpasses wealthy libertarians. Kavenaugh has the power to outlaw abortion and torture minorities. The evangelicals asked for that, Republicans theoretically have the power to grant it, and evangelicals will scream and pitch if they are not given what they want, now, first try.
It may also help to remember that one generation ago, in the 80s, they could get public applause for saying “Jesus told me to do it.” Now they get funny looks, or even laughed at. They are furious at losing their literally god-given due. Tack that onto the usual racist/misogynist freakouts.
JPL
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Kavanaugh’s testimony about knowledge of Miranda’s theft of democratic emails was false. Maybe he can plead early onset dementia.
Percysowner
Actually, I hope the questions he wanted to ask Bill come up. “Judge Kavavanaugh, you wanted to ask President Clinton these questions. You have also stated that questions about how much you drink and your sexual practices are “too personal”. Is it not likely that your personal feelings about the litigants who come before the Supreme Court will affect your decisions? If the litigant is a Democrat (liberal, not in line with your religion or personal beliefs) will any obstacle be too low and if the side is Republican (conservative, in line with your personal beliefs) will any obstacle be too high? How can we even begin to trust your objectivity, when you show this type of bias about questions allowed in similar cases?” Because all other things aside, that is a really important question.
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor: re: heart attack
@debit: re: cirrhosis
Re: Anyone else with various maladies
I blame Obama/Hitlary
eric
They cannot pull the nomination because the issue remains whether he stays on the appellate court. If they pull it, then that is an admission of “something” that will get the attention of the House committees run by dems after January. And, if he resigns, then the pressure turns to the Maryland prosecutor. I dont see a “happy ending” for Cavanaugh.
SFAW
@JPL:
“Your Honor, I’d like to plead guilty to being a privileged, entitled, hypocritical motherfucking liar.”
Tim C.
I’m thinking they are now prepping the evangelicals to be disappointed. I suspect what they will do is pull him, then use the fact they pulled him as a rallying cry to get more evangelicals to the polls. No idea if that will work. But the remaining evangelicals are about as obedient and cultish as they come.
debbie
@Baud:
I don’t have heart problems, but my usually low blood pressure has risen enough to disqualify me for wellness funds at work (has to be below 120). I’m going to see if driving to the doctor’s office listening to something else makes a difference.
debbie
@Frankensteinbeck:
They’ve crossed over. They are no longer Evangelical. They are Pharisee.
Mandalay
Emily Bazelon is certainly more qualified than most to speak about not reporting a sexual assault, and whether you remember your assailant:
Matt
@SFAW: I believe the preferred nomenclature is “Republican”. ;)
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@JPL: That line was at least explored during the hearings, though his questions were pretty unsatisfactory.
@Frankensteinbeck: In the defense of the Evangelicals of the ’80s (which, I was in an Evangelical church at the time) they weren’t trying to explain away or in any way condoning pedophilia (Roy Moore) serial philandering (Trump) or any of the other crap they are tacitly accepting if not trying to say well, that’s OK – Roy was just looking for a “pure” girl when he was cruising the mall for high school chicks. I kind of feel like, as with the Constitution, they proclaim the wisdom of the 10 commandments without actually knowing what the 10 commandments are. Back in the ’80s they knew.
trollhattan
@Ella in New Mexico:
Thought at the time Harris cautioned him to “be very careful ” how he answered a question that she had something specific in her prosecutor’s pocket. And I don’t think it’s Ford.
Mandalay
Here’s another high school sexual assault story with a twist from Caitlin Flanagan:
She also did a podcast of her story for the NYT.
Frankensteinbeck
@debbie:
Yes, they are exactly Pharisees. You could go down a list of Pharisee traits, like praying in public to display their holiness, or using legalisms as excuses to avoid charity, and they all match with Evangelicals.
FlipYrWhig
I said elsewhere that I think his last-ditch effort is that he’s going to try his version of the “At long last, sir, have you no decency?” / “high-tech lynching” / “put the system on trial!” outburst.
Princess
In another WH, these leaks would be planned and strategic and would mean something. I think this WH leaks just because it leaks — everyone there is out for him/herself and leaks a currency with the press. That’s all.
Still, it’s interesting.
I’d also like to know if Trump has spoken or seen Kavanaugh since Ford came forward. I think he hasn’t, and in a way, that is even more of a tell.
Princess
@Princess: Adding: Trump does *not* like drunks.
HeleninEire
@debit: Girl, come sit next to me.
SFAW
@Matt:
To-MAY-toe, to-MAH-toe
schrodingers_cat
Every woman I know, myself included has been at the receiving end of inappropriate (of varying degrees of seriousness) behavior from men that was totally uninvited, that’s why most women have no problem believing Blasey Ford.
schrodingers_cat
ETA: And many incidents that they haven’t told anybody about.
debit
@schrodingers_cat: YEP. Recent events are bringing up memories I thought I’d well and truly buried.
debbie
@Mandalay:
I brought this up a couple days ago and was soundly disagreed with. I have disliked Flanagan for many years, but this was a very rare moment of self-awareness from her. A sincere apology and honest remorse really does make all the difference, doesn’t it?
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Yeah, that’s the most infuriating. “It can’t be true because you didn’t tell the authorities.”
smintheus
It’s fascinating to watch desperate Republicans this morning attempting to turn non-evidence into evidence against Ford. Her old friend Leland Keyser says she has “no recollection” of being at a party with Kavanaugh, and for the GOP this becomes a “game changer”. Similarly, Smyth’s “no knowledge of the party” and Judge’s “no recollection of the incident” are magically transformed non-denials into denials.
If anything, all this disingenuousness is further evidence that Republicans don’t believe their own claims that Ford is lying.
SFAW
@debbie:
Well, I expect you recall Walter Sobchak’s wisdom regarding
NazisPharisees.SFAW
One of my hope’s is that so much shit comes out about Kavanaugh, that it will help prevent (or at least blunt) further Rethug/wingnut attacks on Prof. Blasey Ford’s character, etc.
That hope is probably futile.
HalfAssesHomesteader
I hope all questions put to BK are of the form, “if so-and-so said XYZ would they be lying?”
SFAW
@SFAW:
hope’s = hopes. What a maroon.
jimmiraybob
Who knew that the vetting process would be so hard.
Note to White House: Step 1) Vet candidate then Step 2) Nominate candidate. It’s 1 then 2 and not 2 then 1. 1 then 2. 1 then 2. I know its hard and confusing but repeat after me…………..
smintheus
@Mandalay: I wonder if Emily Bazelon has any remorse yet about her inexcusable reporting several years ago about the school bullying of an Irish immigrant girl who committed suicide. Bazelon did everything conceivable to “humanize” the bullies, to the point of glossing over the fact that they had gloated on line after the girl’s death, and to pin blame for the suicide on the girl’s mental fragility.
I found her reporting utterly despicable. In fact it was so repulsive that it caused me, after 35 years of silence, to talk to family and friends about the brutal campaigns of bullying that I had had to fend off in HS.
Lyrebird
@debbie:
I still have trouble w/Flanagan, and I might out of reflex quibble with the “all” in this, but I sure agree with the general sentiment:
Some of what’s so telling here is that the Republicans would be in a totally different position wrt this nomination if the creep in question had offered a questionably sincere apology, a remote glimmer of remorse, and some pablum about having made regrettable choices in his youth. BUT NO they can’t even squeeze that out of him, and instead go to the same disgusting playbook that so many of us have seen too many times before: deny, blame, smear, BS.
I loved the signs I saw post-inauguration saying something like,
That’s how I feel. Not this time, buddy.
r€nato
When the Trump administration picks Supreme Court nominees, they’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I do. Full disclosure: I do not have a medical degree, (though I regularly lecture at a med school each semester to both 3d year students and residents psychiatry, if that helps).
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Immanentize: Exactly. I do hope you can get your bp down when the stressor of Individual-1 goes away.
I hope Immp is doing well.
Jeffro
@Princess:
But WOW, does he ever like men who abuse women and/or have some pretty out-there sexual hang-ups.
Mandalay
@r€nato: I was with you until your final sentence.
Wapiti
@Princess: I’m imagining a whisper campaign, “He’s a mess when drunk.” “Did anyone tell Trump that he drank?” “Whatever you might say about Trump, he doesn’t like drunks.” “Why didn’t they tell him about this guy’s problem?”
Gelfling 545
@Dorothy A. Winsor: My blood pressure has been elevated for no apparent readon for about a year and a half. I entirely blame Trump.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
WTF, Is this guy a clone of Donald Trump….?
Ladyraxterinok
@Frankensteinbeck: I was in SoBapt church in OK and TX in 40s and 50s. They believe everyone KNOWS Jesus is lord and the bible is true. Those who deny these universally acknowleged truths are just joking or really, really being peverse.
Gelfling 545
@eric: He could always pretty it up with not wanting to be a distraction, blah, blah, blah. As they do.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ladyraxterinok:
Yes. It’s a big part of their attitude towards freedom of religion. Theirs is the only real religion, so it can’t apply to any other. It’s such an unquestionable bedrock assumption for most of them that they wouldn’t understand if you tried to discuss it logically. Fits in neatly with their general ‘right about everything’ derangement.
geg6
This whole thing has me almost too upset to deal. I try not to think about my rape much. It has been easier the older and further from it I get but I have been triggered too much in the last week. I never told anyone-not a soul-what happened that night.
Here it is: I was 15. We belonged to a private swim club about a half mile from our house (walking distance) and a group of kids my age hung out the from dawn to dusk all summer. After the pool closed, we’d hang in the woods, smoking pot and cigarettes until we were expected at home. Kids who didn’t belong to the club often hung in the woods with us. One evening, I was walking home from the pool/woods and a guy who lived near me but was not a club member was also walking home, but a short distance behind me. I didn’t think anything of it. I’d known him all my life, he was a neighbor and, though I didn’t really like him much, I thought he was pretty harmless. Next thing I knew, I was tackled from behind. He held me down and put one hand around my neck and squeezed to stop me from struggling. With the other hand, he ripped my shorts and pulled them down and raped me. Then left me there, bleeding from the rape and numerous cots and scrapes. I laid there for over an hour, not knowing what to do and too scared to even try to get home. Eventually, I got myself together and walked home. Got in a lot of trouble for being late and yelled at for smoking so much pot that I must have fallen down and ruined my clothes and scraped up my knees and back. I couldn’t tell my parents, I thought, because they’d just blame me for being so stupid. I later found out I was pregnant. When I told my mom (a very devout Catholic) about my condition and my desire for an abortion, she absolutely refused. Instead, I was sent to a Catholic home for “fallen” women where I lived until I gave birth and was forced to give the child up to Catholic Charities for adoption. I never told my parents how I got pregnant and they blamed the young man who was my boyfriend until I disappeared for a year.
This had a major effect on my life. I have never had any other kids. I had a troubled relationship with my mother that only got better when she was a few months from dying and we got past our past. But I still never told her what happened. No one has ever heard my whole story. I couldn’t tell you what day it happened or who else was with us before I left to go home. But I remember every detail from the moment I got tackled until I finally got home that night. I will never forget his name or his face. He’s dead now (heart attack about ten years ago). His name was Ben Crisi. This is the first time I have said this out loud (well, in public actually since a blog comment isn’t really speaking). I know exactly how Dr. Ford feels. Exactly. And I am incandescent with fury at the thought that a guy just like Ben Crisi will be sitting on the SCOTUS.
opiejeanne
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: I am told by someone working in banking that getting a loan for your down payment and not disclosing it in your application is considered mortgage fraud, and there is a ceiling on how much you can borrow for that down payment. It certainly isn’t the amount he put down, more like $7000.
Rand Careaga
@Ladyraxterinok:
That seems analogous to the attitudes among some segments of this demographic toward homosexuality, which comes down to “They’re just doing it to annoy the rest of us.” You know—“lifestyle.”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@geg6: I wish I knew exactly what to say to convey how horrified and sad I am that this happened to you.
Gelfling 545
@geg6: It had to be brutal for you to write this. My heart aches for you. Wishing you peace.
laura
Theres a raft of literature about the treatment of girls and women when they tell the story of their assaults including rape. We were the Mulvaneys comes instantly to mind.
Do we as women have any obligation to tell the story of our assualt/s, and if so, to whom do we owe an obligation.
It feels like women are now being forced – and Ms. Blasy specifically, to convince entitled white power that it happened and that there is a consequence to women, but rarely if ever to white men.
This has had me smoldering and remembering since the story broke.
The shame and the rage has been a fucking time machine and I’m STILL that high school girl who was, and then wasn’t so happy to be invited to THAT party, the one the popular kids all went to. That Monday. God, that first day back in school.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jeffro:
Like he is trying to drown out the guilt. Do note Kavanaugh joined a club in collage that basically specialized in rape.
geg6
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
@Gelfling 545:
Thanks. I wrote it with tears running down my face. But it is cathartic. I’ll be 60 years old in a couple of months and I’ve held this in for forty-five years. It’s been poison running through me all this time. I feel like the poison is finally losing its strength.
p.a.
I’m sure they’re all shit, but is anyone in the Fed Society not a male Catlik? Almost added white, but : Clarence the Sphinx.
Citizen_X
@eric: At this point, Im not satisfied with Kavanaugh being rejected, I want to see the fucker disbarred, tried and imprisoned.
Nicole
@geg6: Thank you for being so courageous and sharing your story.
Bill Arnold
@debbie:
Very much yes. She has some talent. And high-def video will mean we can all watch every muscle in his face squirm.
Citizen_X
@geg6: My god. I’m so sorry.
FlipYrWhig
@geg6: geg, I’m so sorry you lived through that, and I’m glad you’re living through it in a different way.
Nicole
@laura:
I don’t think women who have been assaulted owe their story to anyone (and I wouldn’t have held it against Dr. Ford if she’d kept hers to herself, either), but I am so profoundly grateful to every woman who comes forward and tells her story. Shaming women into keeping silent is the only way men can maintain the status quo. That’s why they’re so angry every time a woman speaks up. Because she’ll be followed by another. And another.
FlipYrWhig
@FlipYrWhig: (Hopefully it was clear that I meant “live through this” the second time like in the title of Courtney Love’s album.)
JPL
@geg6: Hugs! Hopefully talking and sharing lessens the pain you have been carrying. I am in tears after reading about your ordeal.
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: {{{ }}}
debit
@geg6: You are an incredible woman and I admire you so much. So sorry you had to go through all of that. I don’t have a whole lot of belief in an afterlife, but I sincerely hope that if there is, Ben Crisi is burning in hell.
opiejeanne
@geg6: Oh my god, I am so sorry. A terrible thing to happen to any woman but even worse when it’s a child, and 15 is still a child.
I too got pregnant from the rape, and I knew it wasn’t my husband’s because we’d been abstaining following a lost very early pregnancy a month earlier. I had the abortion because I was lucky enough to live in California and have insurance through Kaiser.
I was a married woman, age 26, with one child and aborting another.
Every time I feel even slightly guilty I remember him and his face and I’m glad I did, plus I would not bring another man’s child into my husband’s life. He’d probably not blame the child but I’d have blamed myself. And afterward, my best friend at the time who did not know I’d been raped, asked me what the gender was. I was so astonished I couldn’t speak. Why would I want to know the gender of a child I didn’t want, regardless of its origins? I know, the child isn’t to blame, but dammit, neither was I.
I did tell my husband that I was raped but I never told him who or any of the details. That was in 1976. Our marriage must be very strong, stronger than most considering the demons I’ve had to deal with.
Suzanne
@geg6: Many hugs and many best wishes for you. That is brutal, and I am happy that time is loosening the hold this event has had on you.
I think meaningful apology and honest reckoning could have made this different for Kavanaugh. I do not believe in throwing anybody away for even grievous wrongs they have committed. (Also why I do not believe in capital punishment, ever, for any reason.) People should learn and change and move on and become better when they’ve done wrong, and I want us to be a society that encourages and supports that. I want former convicts to find good jobs. I want men who have committed sexual assault to realize that it’s terrible and apologize and teach their sons to be better. Kavanaugh hasn’t done any of that, and that is why this matters, and why he should be disqualified.
HeleninEire
@geg6: When I started reading your post and I realized what you were going to do; tell us it all, I went away. I thought, I cannot handle that. But then I realized that I owe it to you and to all the survivors to listen. So I came back.
And I just have to say, thank you for standing up for yourself and for trusting the jackels at this crazy blog, this bizarre, unconventional community, to listen to you and to trust you and to support you.
Carry on. You deserve the best.
Barbara
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
I would look at parental gifts. Kavanaugh didn’t end up at a toney private school because of a scholarship. His father became wealthy as a successful lobbyist. He has always been a political operative. There could be more nefarious explanations, but I would bank on the parents, at least for the first two items.
opiejeanne
@laura:
I think it’s become clear that we owe it to ourselves and other women, since the men DO NOT FUCKING KNOW ABOUT THIS STUFF, and so many don’t want to know or believe it.
opiejeanne
@laura: And, I’m sorry it happened to you too. My god, there are so many of us here.
Nelle
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: This has been one of my main points in my daily calls to my senators’ offices. I call and say that I’m a fiscal conservative who hates debt and this just stinks.
I even suggested that, as a minimum, they get in front of the cameras and denounce the threats to Dr. Ford. I said, I hated to give Republicans a suggestion as to how to look better, but a simple statement not to harass women who have a complaint got a big silence in response.
Truly flawed.
(Do I call too often? Both offices have a staffer named Drake and I can tell them apart by their voices. But hey, I’m homebound yet after a hip replacement so why not bombard them. I generally start with the DC offices (after 8 their time) and then, as the day goes on, I call the more local offices, and sometimes, late in the day, I hit their western Kansas offices. Probably does not good, but it keeps me, temporarily, out of the unhealthy food.)
Anotherlurker
@geg6: I have shared my experience, at the hands of a priest, with the Jackels. I named the priest, here. I felt good after sharing my experience.
You are with an understanding group who will listen and comment. Don’t hold in the hurt and don’t hold in the rapist’s name. Shout it out.
Baloon Juice is not just an almost Top 10,000 blog, it is a diverse group of empathetic people.
Thanks goes out to all the BJers who are willing to listen.
geg6
@opiejeanne:
This.
jimmiraybob
@debbie:
It’s far worse than that. They are the Christians that supported the Crusades. They are the Christians that persecuted Jews and forced them into ghettos waiting for a strong man to come along with a final solution. They are the Christians that cheered the Inquisitions. They are the Christians who fought the European wars of religion and conquest. They are the Christians that supported Hitler’s plan, Mussolini’s plan, and Franco’s plan. There’s not a dimes worth of difference between our modern American “conservative” Christian Evangelicals and the most vicious of European Christians since Constantine gave them secular legitimacy and a path to power.
The only difference has been their ability to successfully conquer America (to date) is the historic acceptance of Enlightenment liberal values and the fact that these were sowed into the fabric of the nation by the founding generations, which has continued, with ups and downs, until now. It’s been a fight ever since for Christian supremacy and we are now at the apex of the modern and radical Christian nationalist movement. For them this is God’s war and Trump is God’s savior Emperor. If Trump shot a liberal, better yet Hillary or “Pocahontas,” in the middle of 5th Ave NYNY they would not only continue to support him they would only see it as vindicating his God cred – they would be rapturous.
Lulymay
@schrodingers_cat:
That is so VERY true!
Barbara
@geg6: I am so sorry. There are few worse things I can imagine, to be forced into sex, and then forced to carry the resulting pregnancy — your personal trauma could become the norm for others if Kavanaugh becomes justice (though really, any of the likely nominees, but the irony of it happening with Kavanaugh makes it even more infuriating).
Barbara
Could someone figure out why my very benign posts keep going into moderation?
tobie
@geg6: Peace to you, geg6. I can’t begin to imagine the double or triple horror of all this — the rape, the carrying to term, and the fact that you had to remain silent for all these years. It was brave of you to speak up now and write your story and I hope it helps you heal.
JPL
@opiejeanne: The one lasting legacy that Dr. Ford will have is the willingness of those who have suffered sexual violence in the past to share their pain with others.
opiejeanne
@Anotherlurker: I had tried damned hard to forget his name, and had. Had jammed it down into that dark little hole where you should ever look because it’s an abyss full of nightmares, and when this started I honestly could not remember his name.
I now remember his first name. Mark. Drummer in the Jazz Band, writer of dull, inconsequential music whose face became hateful two weeks before graduation from college. I went back for three years starting when I was 23. Skinny, wretched kind of person. Surprisingly strong and the only marks he left were on my wrists. No one would have believed me if I had told.
Doug R
The “christianity” is just a wrapper to sublimated their fear and hatred of the other. Evangelicals didn’t care about abortion until they couldn’t talk about segregation.
opiejeanne
@JPL: I wanted to forget it happened and I haven’t thought about it for years, but the undeserved guilt and rage came welling up and I couldn’t keep it down.
Quite frankly, I think a lot of men should be very afraid of women right now. Very afraid.
MomSense
@geg6:
Hard to type through my tears. I’m so sorry and so moved by your strength and courage. There are.so many of us. I just pray this nightmare leads to major changes for the better.
JPL
@opiejeanne: Brian Stelter gets it.
twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1043885251112529922
You don’t need to have a twitter account to watch. Between the stories that strong females like yourself, geg and Dr. Ford, it’s nice to know that more people understand why women don’t come forward.
opiejeanne
@MomSense: Lawrence O’Donnell read a handful of the tweets on his show on Thursday and they were just heartbreaking.
I know that my middle child, my older daughter, was groped in a crowded hallway in jr high and she wouldn’t go to the office to report it and she wouldn’t let me, saying that would make it worse. She knew who did it, she knew his name. If either of my girls have had worse treatment they haven’t shared, and I considered that plenty bad.
JPL
@MomSense: The only thing republicans care about is insure Kavanaugh’s is the next Supreme Court Justice.
Listen to Stelter that I linked to at 96.
West of the Rockies
@geg6:
Jesus, geg6, I am so sorry. I wish you comfort and healing.
opiejeanne
@JPL: I’ve been following his tweets for a couple of weeks now, but I missed that. Thanks.
On Twitter I am opiejeanne.
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: Thank you for being brave enough to share this.
JPL
@opiejeanne: My son was horrified about the Amber Wyatt story about what happens when you come forward. When she finally shared her story with the Washington Post, people from her past called to apologize. Of course not the person who raped her.
There are horrible people in the world and we are about to find out what republican senators are among them.
Heidi Mom
@geg6: I am so very sorry that happened to you, geg6. May the telling of your story help to bring you peace.
Baud
@geg6:
{{Hugs}}
Nelle
geg6. My profound respect for what you have carried and the courage and necessity to share it now. My this help lay the burden down. And even, I hope, some healing.
I’m listening to The Body Keeps the Score about how our bodies incorporate trauma and that sometimes, all the talking in the world does not address the way the body holds it. I suggest to anyone haunted to seek out a trauma psychologist and look at some of the ways that they try to address the traumatized body for healing.
My daughter has spiraled out of control with depression and anger since last Wednesday. I know why. She can out-think any therapist. I’m hoping to get her into a trauma specialist. She is still blaming herself for a Kavanaugh like encounter, though it was a complete assault, not attempted.
These reactions are happening in house after house, life after life.
schrodingers_cat
I was luckier. I got away from my would be assaulter. He was my friend’s brother. I made sure I was never alone with him again, it was someone I knew very well since I was a child. And I blamed myself for getting into that situation. I never told anyone. Until now. I was a skinny 12 year old he grabbed me from behind. I struggled free and ran and didn’t stop till I was home.
MagdaInBlack
@jimmiraybob:
This, completely.
zhena gogolia
@geg6:
Oh, I am crying here. I’m praying for survivors of rape and sexual abuse who are suffering through this shitshow (not my exact words). We love you so much.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
edit function please
Nelle
One of my abusers is in prison for life as a violent sexual predator (state of Washington). For years, I was proud of myself for fighting him off. But, as he grabbed two of my students in the next twenty minutes, we reported him to police and he was caught grabbing a woman the next day. I thought it was all wrapped up in the 1970s after the trial. In 2006, while living in NZ, I was contacted by King County prosecutors and flown from NZ to Seattle to appear in his trial. I was a bit perplexed, as I had fought him off. But I was right in my guess – I was there to testify to the first part of his cycle – grabbing women by the genitals on the street. What I hadn’t realized was that he went on to horrific, violent rapes, got caught, was sentenced, was a model prisoner, was released, then started the whole cycle again. Then I learned that I wasn’t the proud defender; I was incredibly lucky in my encounter with a violent, serial predator.
Kathleen
@geg6: Dear geg6: I am so sorry you had to endure so much. You are so courageous and deserve so much peace, joy and healing. (Having been raised Catholic, though I never had to endure what you did, I’m fully aware of how I have struggled with the powerful effect just the normal routine Catholic shaming had on me. I can’t even imagine what you have experienced). Holding you in light and love and thanking you for having the courage to tell your story here.
Also, thanks to the Jackal community here for creating a space safe enough for people like geg6 to share their stories.
zhena gogolia
@opiejeanne:
We love you too.
Kathleen
@opiejeanne: {{{{opiejeanne}}}}}
Kathleen
@laura: Peace and love to you, laura.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Hugs to you too. And everyone else. Too many.
CaseyL
@geg6: @opiejeanne: Thank you both for trusting us enough to tell us what happened to you. Horror on top of horror, to be raped and then find out you’re pregnant from it.
Every woman has a story about sexual assault. Mine are of pawing, rough fondling, and threats – never a penetration, but still assaults. I never told anyone – not because I wouldn’t be believed, but because I felt like they were the common currency of being female, and talking about them was like talking about the weather.
But it does have an effect. Personal independence, personal sovereignty, has been my guiding principle all my adult life. I have never, ever, been able to trust anyone absolutely. I have never had a successful long term relationship (and at this point am no longer interested in having one). I’m not sure how much of this is due to the assaults themselves or due to my awareness that talking about them was useless, because I didn’t (and don’t) live in a world where a woman’s sovereignty is taken seriously.
Kathleen
@Anotherlurker: I was too late to comment on the thread where you posted about this. You, too are an inspiration. You have endured so much. Holding you in the light also.
This also applies to any other BJer’s whose posts I have missed or who have not posted about this at all. Though I no longer Catholic I still do believe in angels and the power of prayer and send prayers to all of you.
cynthia ackerman
@SFAW:
I shouldn’t have divorced the guy …
debbie
@geg6:
My heartfelt gratitude that you are in a better place now than during that dark night.
Cheryl from Maryland
@geg6: I’m so sorry for your pain, your hurt, your memories, and how your family reacted. It was brave to share this story with us; I hope the sharing helps. And yes, so many of us are raging that a sexual abuser is President, that a sexual abuser is on the Supreme Court, that the GOP wants to add another one, and that women are still disposable THINGS to many men.
opiejeanne
@Nelle: Oh no, your daughter too. I am so sorry, Nelle. I hope she can find joy and peace soon.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud:Thanks. If it is every woman on earth, I wouldn’t be surprised.
MagdaInBlack
My friend since childhood, along with her 2 sisters, was molested all thru her childhood, by her (church elder) father.
When I learned this, I understood why:
Her older sister deliberately got pregnant at 16: to get out of the house.
My friend joined the Air Force right out of HS and never went back.
Younger sister has so many health problems shes on perm disability.
One brother is a heroin addict.
One brother has cut off all contact.
This stuff reverberates forever.
opiejeanne
@Nelle: Oh my Lord. There are no words for any of this, from you to your daughter to me to geg6 and schrodinger’s cat and all of the others here and out there in the world who haven’t spoken yet.
This is very “triggering” (I hate that word because it is used so scornfully by Rs) for women, this whole business, and now that the floodgates are opening and we are starting to talk, there are a lot of men who ought to be afraid of women. Very afraid.
NickM
@geg6: I’m so sorry this happened to you.
debbie
@CaseyL:
All of this.
My “first” was when I was about four, when the pediatrician “ripped me a new one” (as I like to refer to it). I totally suppressed it until I moved back here maybe 30-35 years later. It took more than 10 years to fully resurface. It may not have been in my memory for a long time, but it sure guided me from the day it happened in my inability to deal with people and, for instance, protest when my (ahem) boyfriend insisted on playing rape, ripping my legs apart and leaving me with sciatica in both legs forever.
All I can say is trust is my four-letter word.
Elizabelle
@geg6: I am so sorry to hear of this, and appreciate your courage in sharing it. Your story has a whole other chapter: the unwanted pregnancy and exile. We are here for you.
And I’m sorry you did not get parents who could help you through such a painful experience. That’s a whole extra level of awful.
opiejeanne
@Kathleen: I was raised Methodist and the nonsense about sex didn’t come from there, at least for me. It came from everywhere else.
Mostly it was the air we breathed in the 50s and 60s and you didn’t notice it as anything special. It was all of society teaching us these ridiculous things, telling the girls that we had to be the gatekeepers, etc. that the boy wasn’t responsible for his hormones. Girls had hormones too but they said it only made us moody and not horny. Ladies weren’t horny. Nice girls weren’t horny.
What kept me from experimenting more with The Boyfriend was the absolute terror of pregnancy, both of us and he was a good boy. He’s going to be at the reunion this week and we haven’t seen each other in 49 years. I guess I should tell him to look for my mother at the party because I look in the mirror and see her now.
Kristine
@geg6: ‘I am so sorry that happened to you’ doesn’t cut it, but damn.
This is opening so many old wounds.
Ruckus
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
This is a huge point.
He is such an ass that he shouldn’t be a judge at all, let alone on the supreme court. He knows that if he answers all the questions truthfully he won’t make it to the supreme court and might just lose the job he has now.
MagdaInBlack
@CaseyL:
This is just the most sad and true description of how it is. How we were raised.
It is amazing we’re functional at all
Ruckus
@JPL:
That’s a good look for a lifetime appointment judge.
opiejeanne
@MagdaInBlack: Were we functional, I mean fully functional? Didn’t many of us discover that our mothers struggled with depression, as we did ourselves?
Gelfling 545
I so admire all the brace women who have shared their experiences here because it’s totally their right to keep their pain private. I could weep for all the years of suffering. This is what happens all too often. The man commits a crime and the woman serves a life sentence
Gelfling 545
@Gelfling 545: Oh, God! BRAVE! I meant brave.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@geg6:
Dunno what to say. Just wanted to acknowledge your truth and your courage in speaking it.
MagdaInBlack
@opiejeanne:
We function, as well as we can, I think, given all we carry in our heads.
Whether we are sane, is another question. The methods we develop in order to function
are what create (imho, in my case) the depression, anxiety, anger.
And yeah, my mother suffered from these things too. We thought it was hereditary, but perhaps its reaction to a social virus: patriarchy.
Kristine
@opiejeanne:
We were taught this in my Catholic high school during junior? year Health class. 1975-76. Past a certain point, boys couldn’t control themselves. It was up to us girls to manage the situation.
Immanentize
@geg6:
I am so very sorry this whole line of crap happened. But I am glad you shared with us.
I am your age and my cousin’s grandmother has a similar story about her best friend in highschool in the 40’s (without the pot) being sent away after being raped. The story she told was particularly chilling, not just because her friend’s life was so disrupted and everyone was hurt and filled with shame, but because my cousin’s grandmother, Mary, ended the telling with, “Which is why none of us ever said anything about what the priests were doing to us.”
You an i are the same age (maybe you have a few months on me, but I know those crazy choices so well. I say, “Just fuckity fuck fuck the fucking fuckers and their fuckery — all of them.” And again, I feel so honored to have had you share this with us.
sgrAstar
@geg6: oh geg6, I am so sorry. I wish I could give you a big sisterly hug. Thank you for sharing your wrenching story.
J R in WV
@debit:
Some time back I got a call from my Dr’s office, as always, to tell me about my blood work from my previous appointment. The nurse told me I needed to stop drinking as my liver enzymes were elevated — so I did. But I also asked the Dr about it in more detail at the next appointment.
Turns out my liver numbers were up a little bit, but no where near dangerous, which would be numbers in the hundreds. So I resumed, but moderated my beverage habits, and have not seen elevated numbers at all. I blame Trump!!!
Dorothy, I feel sure Trump is to blame for any health problems you have confronted. You should bill him personally for all expenses related to your heart attack! Every penny!!
I have also worn the edges off several crowns, which doesn’t hurt because they are not natural-born-with teeth. But they cost a lot. I do have a twinge on the upper left when I chew something more firm than the regular bite of food. And I have trouble sleeping.
Immanentize
@J R in WV:
I am right there with you! The PA, after seeing my elevated BP, asked if I was under any special stress. hahhhaaahaha! Also —
Two words : Bite guard. I don’t grind at night, but I clench. The bite guard has saved my teeth and vastly reduced my headaches.
Sloane Ranger
Thanks to everyone who has shared their story. Something similar happened to me when I was about 9. It wasn’t as bad as geg6 or some of the others but it had its effect. At the time we lived in a village. I was alone, walking home across a field and met a boy who lived a few houses down in our street. He was about 16. He grabbed me and forced me to the ground. He tried to pull my knickers down but stopped when I started struggling and yelling. Instead he rubbed himself against me. When he stopped, he got up and just walked off. I lay there for a while before getting up and walking home.
I also never told my parents or anyone else but shortly afterwards I was diagnosed with depression and I was on phenobarbitol until we moved away about a year later. Mum would ask me why I was “shy” around this guy and I would mumble some excuse.
I too have problems with trust and have never been in a long term relationship. The only men I have ever trusted totally were my father and my brother. Yet I never told either of them, so perhaps I didn’t trust them totally?
Ruckus
@smintheus:
You talked about being bullied/attacked 35 yrs ago the other day. It’s not easy but talking about it helps. Too many kids find their way in the world by bullying, and carry it on, often till either they find the person who fights back far better than they do or they are no longer capable. That we consider ourselves a civilized species is laughable.
I was bullied in elementary school. By a “friend.” It wasn’t overt, but it was constant. It came about because my growth spurts were timed a lot differently than others. At points I was a normal to big kid, while most of the time I was small. Anyway big kid “friend,” about 6 inches taller, keeps it up, I tell him to stop, he doesn’t. So one day he starts in again and I just punched him. He stopped. A few years later, freshman in HS the school (an all boys RC technical HS) holds an assembly for the entire school in the auditorium and has the smallest kid in each shop’s freshman class come up to the stage to be made fun of. The class chose me. I told them to fuck off I wasn’t going. Told the teacher, father something, the same thing. And that if I got up I was walking out the door. They sent someone else.
This event shaped my life, fortunately in a good way. I learned from these two events to stand up for myself and take my lumps if necessary. This doesn’t always work but it’s often worth trying. Punch them in the nose or balls depending on which you can reach became the phrase in the back of my mind. Strangely enough I’ve never had to do this since elementary school.
BTW this doesn’t always work and the risk of a beating and if you are female, maybe raped or both, is real. Each situation is different but the bullying is always the same. It reaches your breaking point, that the risk is worth it to you. What tells me it’s different between men and women besides the possible strength difference is that if male and you are being bullied it’s always a beating threat and that’s up front. With women it’s often friendly at first but turns extremely ugly extremely fast.
Ruckus
@r€nato:
Never assume.
Especially when it’s obvious that the group you are assuming something positive about has no positive redeeming values.
geg6
@Elizabelle:
I must stand up for my dad. He actually told me, during the discussions of my pregnancy and whether to get the abortion, that he felt I should do what I wanted. My mom was the “villain” in that. Dad was the reason I can still love and trust men. I can’t say why I couldn’t tell him other than it was the mid-70s and no one talked about such things. You blamed yourself and tried to move on.
Mnemosyne
@geg6:
I’m so sorry. I hope that the process of writing it down and saying his name, even under your pseudonym, will help bring you a measure of peace.
Ruckus
@Ladyraxterinok:
They never, ever joke about the bible. Never. Ever.
It may be their only constant.
OK that and they are fucking annoying.
Miss Bianca
So many women (and men, too) here who suffered such horrific attacks and then had to deal with the physical and psychological torment for their whole lives afterwards. I am so, so sorry. laura, geg6, opiejeanne…I had friends who suffered attacks like yours. I heard about them when I worked at Planned Parenthood. I’ve had my share of harassment and borderline assault to deal with, but never anything as horrifying as what you’ve gone thru’. I am glad you trusted us enough to tell your stories. Honestly, it’s the avalanche of stories that are coming out now that I hope – trust – pray – is going to start to make a difference to our misogynistic, power-mad, rape culture – not just in the US but all over the world.
I *have* to hope it. Somedays, it’s all that’s getting me out of bed. I went to a private day school outside of Detroit that had privileged assholes like Brett Kavanaugh swanning around making other people’s lives hell just because they could. It’s hard to look back on my time in that school and think, “the guys like Brett Kavanaugh all thought I was too ugly and weird to try to molest, so they contented themselves with losing no opportunity to rub my nose in their verbal shit” – and that was me getting *lucky*. Maybe slamming one of their heads into one of the pillars outside the middle school one day got the point across that they shouldn’t push their luck with any abuse beyond verbal. I don’t know. Part of me hopes so.
Makes me wonder about my more popular female classmates…how many are living with some horrifying memory that comes from one of those underage drinking parties that were so en courant among that set. I find it all too easy to believe that a lot of them might be.
spudgun
@geg6: Jeezus…I don’t know what to say. What happened to you was horrific and my heart goes out to you. {{{hugs}}}
You’re one of my favorite commenters here so I hope (it sounds like to me, anyway) that you’ve made a good life for yourself because you deserve it.
J R in WV
Now I’ve read the whole thread, and I have to say I am stunned by the biographical comments you women have shared. So tragic, and so brave to tell us those sad stories. All the respect in the world for all of you who have suffered such abuse.
I for one will fight these monsters with you. Because they need to be fought.
Thank all of you for sharing with us. I hope it helps all of you to feel a little better to have companions (even virtual digital companions!) sharing your pain. I also hope it helps put this “Judge” Kavanaugh in his proper place, a protective custody cell in a Maryland prison — NOT the bench of any court.
Ruckus
@geg6:
Wow. That’s, there are no words to use.
I am sorry that you went through this. I do hope that talking about it helps. Nothing can take away the event and the history that has followed you, but talking about it can bring some cathartic relief. I hope it does for you.
Travels with charley
I am struggling through tears…by the painful honesty and courage of so many in our community. I agree that almost all (maybe all?) women have experienced sexual assault, of varying degrees. Multiple times, perhaps. And blamed ourselves. And found it hard to really trust anyone. Right now, I hurt …for myself, for everyone else. But I feel a terrifying anger, no, RAGE, bubbling up.
spudgun
@opiejeanne: Hugs and peace to you too…I’m so sorry for what you went through.
Chetan Murthy
@debbie: If it were me, not enough rewards. Permanent maiming, sure. A few rough questions, fuck that, not enough by a country mile.
Ruckus
@Barbara:
It MAY be his parents. But he’s a grown, successful person, a judge, and his parents are giving him this kind of money? Sure it’s possible, sure it’s illegal not to disclose it, but given who this asshole is, who and what his beliefs follow, I’d say nefarious money is far, far more likely. If his parents gave it to him they would declare it and then forgive up to the legal amount every year until it was gone. Or set up an LLC and give him ownership over time.
No, this money did not come from his parents, it was not declared in any way and he is stealing from all of us.
Why are you protecting him?
Rand Careaga
@Ruckus:
I don’t know that a blog comment quite rises to the level of “protection.”
spudgun
I admire so much the courage of all of you who have shared your stories…I have a few of my own but I still have a lot of shame and grief surrounding those incidents and I just don’t have the strength right now to talk about them.
I am at once horrified and relieved to know that I am not alone. Major hugs to all the beautiful jackals who have shared their stories on this thread.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
I think that would make us a much better society.
Respect would be better than fear but one has to take what one can get.
Honus
@debbie: sometimes it means prison, even twenty years after the incident.
readthehook.com/77095/beebe-gets-18-months-1984-battery
frosty
I’m shocked and saddened by all these stories. This is far, far more common than I expected. I’m looking back at HS and I see a few that fit the Kavenaugh mold: smug, entitled, underage drunk partiers. I’m glad now that I wasn’t cool enough to hang out with that crowd.
satby
@CaseyL:
Repeating because it’s true. And alarming numbers of us have been raped and never told anyone. It’s good that we’re willing to tell someone now.
MagdaInBlack
@Travels with charley:
I’m working my head around the fact that more than half the population has sustained lifelong attacks of murder, rape, abuse, molestation, shaming, blaming, guilt, accusation, silencing, bullying………the list goes on. I include all minorities in those abuses.
I can be a wee bit obtuse at times, which I blame on my desire to believe people are basicly good, but at the moment I’m seeing that belief as a handicap.
Thankfully, you folks remind me there are plenty of good people
Ruckus
My sister, who has passed away, could only tell me the vaguest details about her assault. No names, no details. I believed her that it happened but there was nothing I could do to help. She lived with that her entire life. Mom didn’t believe her, I’m pretty sure she never told dad. She partnered with women longer than anyone else and I think it may have been because she trusted them. I’ll never know and I wish that I had, because it helps to talk about it.
We often keep ourselves in a prison of our own minds and it is limiting.
Another Scott
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: + Eleventy billion.
Well said.
In addition to all that, he constantly gives evasive answers. Even if he wasn’t involved up to his eyeballs in all the anti-Clinton stuff, and the Florida elections stuff, and all the rest, the fact that he seemingly can’t answer a direct question seems to me to be disqualifying.
Or it would be if I were able to vote on his nomination…
Cheers,
Scott.
Citizen Alan
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’ve taken to condemning them in their own terms. False prophets. Whited sepulchres. And above all, a reminder that Jesus specifically said that there would be many who claimed to be his followers to whom he would say “Depart. I never knew you.” before sending them straight to hell. I also told one person to his face that voting for Trump was equivalent to taking the mark of the beast. It was immensely satisfying.
Ruckus
@Rand Careaga:
Finding excuses for a totally unqualified person is trying to protect him.
Let’s run this one through. Change the story to one of power and sex. He was just being a teenaged boy.
It’s the same story, with different participants and victims. “It’s OK, he’s a federal judge.” It’s OK he’s a teenaged boy.” It’s OK he’s a republican.” “Boys will be boys.”
It’s an excuse that is far less valid than the truth. That’s trying to protect him. Throwing a smoke screen over it to lessen the damage. Even if that isn’t the intent, that’s what it is.
MagdaInBlack
@Ruckus:
I dont want men to be afraid. I just want them to act right. We know they know whats right; they can certainly do so (wear the mask) when required.
And FFS their precious bible tells them how.
There’s the damn rule book.
Just effin’ follow it.
It’s really not that hard to treat people well.
Rant over ?
Another Scott
@geg6: Horrible. :-(
Thank you for sharing your story. It’s important.
I did a minute of searching and found this:
Memorial contributions may be made to the Crisi Character Award Scholarship
Men who do these things have “Character Awards” in their names, while girls and women suffer for the rest of their lives. It’s infuriating, and far, far too common. :-(
Best of luck to you, and to everyone else suffering. We need to do what we can to keep Kavanaugh and similar monsters out of office and off the courts.
Best wishes,
Scott.
JeanneT
These histories of abuse and the long sorrows: there are no words to convey the comfort I wish I could give. There are no words – but I hope I can take actions going forward to teach ourselves and our children to be better humans, to step up to respect and protect one another.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Ruckus:
Do you not get that “And some, I assume, are good people,” like the whole thing, is a direct quote of Trump’s speech about Mexicans?
Barbara
@Ruckus: I don’t know, of course, but it’s common for affluent parents to help finance a house. The debts were very weird and deserve a deeper dive all on their own. When I was a clerk there was a vacant Supreme Court seat and one of the judges in our circuit kept getting mentioned, which sent one of my co-workers into a tizzy, until our judge told her that this person would never be nominated because “his house wasn’t in order.” Yes, it used to matter, even to Republicans.
Another Scott
@Sloane Ranger: Shortly before my mother died, she told me that when she was a teenager that her older brother proposed having sex with her. She didn’t elaborate. She said she never trusted him again after that.
There always seemed to be a coldness given off when she was around him that I never fully understood.
Until then.
She carried that with her, and as far as I know never told anyone, for 60+ years.
:-(
Men break so many lives with so little thought of the consequences… It’s horrible.
Best wishes, everyone,
Scott.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Ruckus:
Back the fuck up. Barbara said nothing about Kavanaugh’s sexual behavior. All she said was that his parents might be the likely source of the money for his house and his country club dues. To construe that as “protecting him” or “covering for him” in the context of your litany of “excusing his behavior” items is completely asinine. You owe her an apology.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
Oh you are so correct. Respect would be far better.
But if fear is all you have right now, it’s better than nothing. Societies change very slowly, but they can get better. This conservative bullshit we are going through right now is trying to thwart the direction of the change we’ve been going through for the last 50 yrs. They’ve rigged so much of politics to try to make that not even possible. Conservatives don’t want change, unless it goes backwards. Normal change stops them from doing all the shit they want to do. Civil rights, marriage equality, sexual equality, voting rights, climate change/environmental laws, etc. All of these are societal changes that aim towards a better life for all. And that is against all conservative dogma. They don’t want to be equal, they want to be better. Unable to be better, they at least want to be on top, to control all. They don’t think rape is wrong, it’s just a guy taking what is his, that is whatever he wants. But as we become more liberal, conservatives become more desperate. Their world is shrinking and their vision of theft of everything that gives them power becomes more apparent because of that.
And our political system is based upon that fight. It’s set up to encourage that fight. It’s not set up to fix this in any way other than obeying norms. Conservatives have no mechanism to obey norms that allow anyone other than them to survive. They don’t look at it as a road to be traveled to get to a better life for all. They look at it as warfare, to be won, by any means.
rikyrah
@geg6:
I am so sorry that you went through this. Thank you for sharing something so painful. ??
You, like Dr. Ford , are a survivor.
WaterGirl
I think i have only said this once before in my life — as a good Catholic schoolgirl you learn what a terrible thing it is to take the Lord’s name in vain — but ungentelmanly????? Jesus Fucking Christ.
Yes, I find that it’s very “ungentlemanly” to cover a woman’s mouth and turn up the music so no one can hear her screams as you try to rape her.
Ruckus
@Steeplejack (tablet):
I don’t think so.
Offering a possible excuse for this guy, for something that would still be illegal is trying to protect him, even if it isn’t intentional. That’s why I used a question rather than accusing her.
I didn’t say she said anything about his sexual behavior, I was using those as examples of equivalency. I explained to another commenter that she may not even have meant it that way, which I don’t think she did. And her comment about it does clarify that. I just find that sometimes our way of speaking is done, either in the name of civility or to protect someone/something that both sides know is wrong. It may be a language problem, it may be a societal problem. But it is the same as saying “boys will be boys” as an excuse. It’s wrong, even if it’s what happened.
Just as an example, my parents gave me a business, a corporation. They equally owned all the stock, each one gave me X amount of shares each year as a gift. Because of that I didn’t have to declare it as income. It was legal and what is/was normally done in the type of situations that Barbara was talking about. If his family wanted to do that they could have and these are people much more accustomed to having a lawyer(s) at hand to understand and make these kinds of things work without legal ramifications than my parents were 40 yrs ago.
@Barbara: herself responded far differently than you and is probably correct that this happens a lot. I know of a number of people whose parents gave/loaned them part or all of the downpayment for a home or business. It’s not unusual at any level. But that wasn’t my point at all. The way Barbara stated this was the way we make excuses for things that happen a lot in society. Some of those things shouldn’t happen, as being discussed today on this blog and some have a legal mechanism, as I’ve shown above.
Elie
@geg6:
I haven’t commented in a long time but lurk regularly.
My heart goes out to you and I wish you continued healing…
Elie
WaterGirl
@MomSense: I saw that, too. Did you also see a zillion Harvard faculty who wrote a letter to the Judicial committee asking for a full investigation?
It war heart warming.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Ruckus:
Your logic seems a bit tortured.
And Barbara’s response was not to the comment at issue but to your previous one.
zhena gogolia
@Elie:
I was just thinking about you this morning and wondering where you’d gone.
Ruckus
@Steeplejack (tablet):
A very serious question. What is the high horse here all about or is there even one involved? Taking your next comment to me together with this one, I’m thinking there has to be something going on here.
But this is my answer for now.
Someone made a comment with a bit of jest involved, I poked back, with a little jest involved.
Now I will admit that I hadn’t read the entire thread at that point and didn’t have any idea where it would go. This tread evolved in a completely different direction very rapidly for me and no one is trying to take that away from the people making some very difficult comments about their lives.
FelonyGovt
Love and light to all of you who have shared their painful stories. I admire your courage and hope as we go forward, younger women (and men) won’t experience these things, or at least won’t feel obliged to desl with them in silence. ❤️
Bex
@geg6: Thank you for telling your story. Love and light to you and the others here who have done the same.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Ruckus:
No high horse. Sometimes it’s hard to distinguish reading incomprehension from humor fail. I see that it was the latter.
smintheus
@Ruckus: That’s absolutely appalling what your RC school did. It sounds like you were being taught by a bunch of sadists.
Teachers/administrators in my school weren’t sadists, just indifferent. It’s not that I couldn’t beat the bullies up, the problem was the employees didn’t want any record of trouble that could haunt them so they threatened to suspend me whenever I fought back. I would have to tolerate long series of attacks until one happened to occur in front of a reliable witness and I could afford to risk a fight.
Also I was big, so it was always sneak attacks and gang attacks. The more vicious and dangerous, the more the Sgt. Schulzes of the school pretended to know nothing. I was nearly stomped to death my senior year, the culprits weren’t even given a verbal warning. The only thing that angered the school staff was when I responded to an attack and they couldn’t keep feigning ignorance.
It was originally about religious freaks running amok, though. We were our small town’s despised atheists, and that was why as a 10/11 y/o I found myself fending off daily attacks by high schoolers threatening to bash my head in. Hundreds of gang attacks, not one person ever lifted a finger to protect me. From then on, I held virtually everyone at the school in total contempt. That just fed further attacks.
MoxieM
@geg6: So much love to you–you are brave and, although you know this–please know–not your fault. I am so sorry for all the sorrow and pain and loss and guilt.
WaterGirl
@geg6:Thank you for trusting us with your story. I am so sorry. Until today i only knew some of the details, and I have never been able to forgive your mother, even to the extent that you have. I think about your pain being drudged up all over again and i wonder… do we think there are millions of women who are reliving a rape because of these Republican monsters?
Ruckus
@smintheus:
Sadists. Isn’t that what bullies really are?
I am not an RC, never have been. By then I was actually an atheist. I was one of 3 or 4 non RC int the school of about 400. Along with our shop teacher’s assistant. I lasted a year. Went back to public school. As catty and cliquish as that was, it was far better.
Your school time seemed, well shitty. But then high school seems to be either shitty or great, depending on how you fit in. Or didn’t. I grew quite a bit during HS and that seemed to make a difference. And I grew 3 inches after I was 18. I thought that size was the issue for me, I see that didn’t really make a difference for you. Also living in a large city or at least a suburb like most of the LA area is seemed to soften that small town outsider crap. They had to find other things to fuck with you for.
MoxieM
@opiejeanne: Oh, Opiejean (I’m reading the thread backwards). I just read your story. Please feel loved and supported. And believed. and trusted.
smintheus
@geg6: Oh god what you went through! So much cruelty that can’t be fathomed. Does your child know?
Barbara
@Ruckus: There are three things here. First, financing a house and club dues. The former, at least, is an ordinary kind of thing, I assume it might be parents, but if he can’t explain it that would be suspicious enough to merit investigation. $200k in sports related debt is totally out of the ordinary and for all I know it was his way of paying back other kind of debt in the form of tickets. That’s really bad and not so long ago would have been more than enough to keep him from being nominated. So why was he nominated? Occam’s Razor: as a quid pro quo to get Kennedy to resign now rather than later. As for the third, the abuse allegations, just EFF off. The idea that I would excuse that is insulting.
Jay
This has been a very difficult and hard comment thread to read.
It has made me cry, and horribly angry.
I believe all of you.
I am sorry that none of you were protected from these horrible events, or believed, or supported enough, or received justice.
I am sorry that current events are bringing up these trauma’s.
I love you all and hope that all of you will find/have found peace and healing,
And I thank you all for your testimony, these stories need to be told, and enter into our collective history, these horrible events need to be out in the sunlight, if we want to effect change.
Thank you all for having the courage to come forward.
Ruckus
@Barbara:
Once again I wasn’t accusing you of it, just asking. And I’ve stated above that I didn’t think you meant it that way. I probably should have said that in my original comment.
The way you phrased it is a very common way we speak in the US and possibly many other countries/languages. For some it throws out a layer of doubt that this is anything out of the ordinary. It doesn’t have to be intended that way at all and I don’t think it was here.
I just think that when we talk about people doing suspicious acts, especially public personalities we need to be more careful that we don’t sound like we are giving them an excuse, everyone does it.
Your point that a lot of people do it is true, as I’ve also said.
Maybe I didn’t write the first post all that well and could have stated it far better but that’s part of the problem of trying to make short questions and answers of important issues.
The other day I said I was going to walk away from BJ for a while. There is just too much going on in politics, my health and even at BJ.
I’m rethinking coming back, that maybe it was too soon.
Barbara
@Ruckus: There is such a thing as choosing your battles.
Sab
@Ruckus: Dont walk away for long. Some of us will very much miss you.
geg6
@smintheus:
I have never seen or heard anything about her since the day she was born. I know she was adopted, but that’s all I know. I prefer it that way. She doesn’t need to know this story. I hope she’s happy and well.
And thanks to you all. It really does help to tell the story. And this, I knew, was a safe place to do it. I love all you jackals! ♥️
Kathleen
@opiejeanne: You are right. I’ve been thinking today about how insidious the messages in movies, TV, ads, and popular music were back in the 50’s and 60’s and how they subconsciously insinuated themselves into our bones. I always “knew” that in my head but for some reason I have never allowed myself to feel it in my bones. Fortunately for me, I never had to experience what you and so many (including women on this thread) had to. I was very sheltered and very naive. Again, my deepest admiration for your courage.
sigyn
@geg6: Oh, sweetie, I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing, thanks for the courage that took, and thank you for trusting us all here to hear you.
TenguPhule
@p.a.:
I understand that some of them are women.
TenguPhule
@opiejeanne:
I’m listening. I believe all of you.