Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

This fight is for everything.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2018 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Remember the Ladies…

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Remember the Ladies…

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Title, of course, is a quote from one of my favorite foremothers, Abigail Adams:

… [B]y the way in the new Code of Laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make I desire you would Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favourable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the Husbands. Remember all Men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the Ladies we are determined to foment a Rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any Laws in which we have no voice, or Representation.

That your Sex are Naturally Tyrannical is a Truth so thoroughly established as to admit of no dispute, but such of you as wish to be happy willingly give up the harsh title of Master for the more tender and endearing one of Friend. Why then, not put it out of the power of the vicious and the Lawless to use us with cruelty and indignity with impunity. Men of Sense in all Ages abhor those customs which treat us only as the vassals of your Sex…

Reader Interactions

95Comments

  1. 1.

    Big R

    Since this is an open thread, I’ll say I’m posting this from mobile because the site is forked on my computer. Gets caught in a timeout waiting for a response from some ad server.

    (We’ll ignore the autocorrect suggestion of “ass server.”)

    The page won’t scroll, if I click a link at the top, like say the link to comment on this post, it connects but the same thing happens. Obviously I can’t comment if I can’t scroll the page to the comment box. Leaving for others to determine whether me inability to comment is net positive or negative.

    Win10, chrome v.68.0.3440.106.

  2. 2.

    Patricia Kayden

    Wow. It took a whole lot for Republican women to get down to 68% which is still way too high. Trump hasn’t changed.

  7. 7.

    MagdaInBlack

    The one other woman in my office, is a Republican. She does’t vote.
    She’s completely ignorant of what’s going on in this country, and has no interest.
    Flag decals all over her truck.
    And supports Trump…….
    I don’t even bother…….I’m in awe .
    Not in a good way.

  10. 10.

    bemused

    We have a code red mental health crisis in this country with 30% plus Americans in dire need of intense therapy and cult interventions. It’s terrifying to me that so many people either have no clue trump is a raving lunatic or don’t care at all.

  14. 14.

    bystander

    Not verbatim, but I just heard this from twitler: “Women like what the republicans are doing. They’d just like them to do it faster.”

    Anybody who thinks Steve Schmidt is not still a party hack without a party, you should hear his fullthroated aria “Both sides do it” on Moanin’ Joe.

  16. 16.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Can Eli not do simple math or is he looking at a different graph than I? 80% to 68% is a 12 point drop, not 18.

  20. 20.

    Betty Cracker

    @debbie: I know, right? It was so bug-fuck nuts. My husband came home from work in the middle of it. I was watching it on my computer, and he sat down next to me to catch the last part of it. We kept looking at each other in disbelief. It was surreal.

    From my subsequent tour of the mainstream media outlets, I see they still haven’t figured out how to respond to this insanity. They’re still trying to jam Trump’s psycho flight-of-ideas rants into the framing of a normal presidential press conference. I guess they never will adjust to new realities and would take the same tone if Trump came out wearing his underwear on his head. I mean, what the fuck does it take?

    The Post gets some credit for at least attempting to debunk the many lies Trump told on the front page of today’s edition. I comprehend the scale of that challenge and give them kudos for it.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    Trailing in the polls and with a sense of impending doom setting in among his supporters, Republican Ron DeSantis abruptly hired a new chairman of his struggling campaign for governor Wednesday.
    DeSantis chose Susie Wiles, a lobbyist and seasoned Republican strategist who ran Donald Trump’s successful 2016 Florida effort and was a key adviser in Rick Scott’s first of two successful races for governor.

    Cordray and DeWine in Ohio are tied (in polls) which (I think) is how everyone thought it would be- really close. But what is going on in Florida! What happened to all the Trump supporters?

  22. 22.

    different-church-lady

    If I seal all my windows and doors with duct tape, will that keep today’s fresh load of horrible from getting in?

  23. 23.

    satby

    @MagdaInBlack: she’s entitled to be as stupid as she wants as long as she’s a non-voter. Let’s face it, there always will be stupid and evil existing, but if they can be sidelined and outvoted the damage they do will stay in their own limited sphere.

  25. 25.

    TS (the original)

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Wow. It took a whole lot for Republican women to get down to 68% which is still way too high. Trump hasn’t changed.

    For independent women the trump approval has actually gone up 32% to 36%. (disapproval has gone up as well 53-55) in the 2 survey periods listed. I think this indicates some women are now calling themselves independents rather than republicans – but some of these still approve of trump.

    Where I hope the blue wave is coming from – more women are simply leaving the party and many of them will not vote.

  26. 26.

    debbie

    @Betty Cracker:

    I hope at some point, someone counts up all the lies. They came even faster and furiouser than usual.

    (Yes, it’s intentional.)

    I’ll be at work, listening to what NPR broadcasts of the hearings. I hope I can control myself.

  27. 27.

    different-church-lady

    @OzarkHillbilly: He can probably do math, but not non-confusing captions: 18% is the drop in support for Judgey McRapeFace, which is a stat that doesn’t appear on linked graph at all.

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: DeSantis is running a really terrible campaign. He’s canceled interviews with local papers where he was supposed to outline his policies because…he doesn’t have any policies. He’s bombarding the TV market with an ad that highlights his little league baseball career — no, seriously!

    DeSantis is a Fox News personality who doesn’t give a shit about Florida, and it shows. Also, he had a falling out with Trump over the hurricane death toll in Puerto Rico, and being Trump’s favorite toady in Florida was his only qualification in the Republican primary, so he’s screwed himself. I am utterly delighted, of course! And pulling for Mr. Cordray in addition to Mr. Gillum!

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He was doing drop in net approval: from 61 percent positive to 42 percent positive. Whether that’s a legitimate “metric” can certainly be debated, but it seems a useful stat to me.

    On the other hand, my cynicism level (re: whether the Rethug-supporting women will vote in the way the polling indicates) is high. Kind of like assuming that Suzie Collins will vote her conscience, and not vote as Traitor Turtle wants her to vote.

  34. 34.

    Mary G

    Abigail Adams rocks. If she were alive today she’d be a front pager here. She was married to one of the founding fathers who didn’t own slaves. She also had rheumatoid arthritis like me. She’s up there with Michelle Obama to me.

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    Mark your calendars for Beto. Local ABC13 affiliate in Houston will live stream Sunday night’s debate, 6-7 p Central (ie. 7-8 pm Eastern).

    HOUSTON, Texas (KTRK) — Texas Senator Ted Cruz and Congressman Beto O’Rourke are coming to Houston to talk about the issues.

    The Republican and Democratic candidates for U.S. Senate have agreed to three debates, the second of which will be hosted by the University of Houston.

    The town hall-style debate set for Sunday, Sept. 30 from 6-7 p.m. will focus on domestic policy. ABC13 and Univision will be televising the debate, and it will be streamed live on abc13.com.

    The candidates will also participate in two other debates across the Lone Star State.

    Dallas’ Southern Methodist University hosted the first debate on Friday, Sept. 21.

    The third debate will be held on Oct. 16 in San Antonio.

    According to an announcement by both campaigns, the debates will be 60 minutes in length.

  39. 39.

    Matt McIrvin

    538 seems to show Trump’s general approval going up since the Kavanaugh story broke, so presumably it’s rallying shitty men to support Trump in greater numbers than women are abandoning him.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    They’re still trying to jam Trump’s psycho flight-of-ideas rants into the framing of a normal presidential press conference. I guess they never will adjust to new realities and would take the same tone if Trump came out wearing his underwear on his head.

    I agree but I also don’t know what they should do. They have to do something differently – I just don’t know what that would look like. I hope someone figures it out. I haven’t even seen a hint of a suggestion or an idea on how to handle it. Instead it’s all a defense of what they;ve always done.

    As it is now they’re doing more harm than good- they’re broadcasting 90 minutes of state propaganda.

  42. 42.

    Elizabelle

    Not gonna link, but Brett Stevens of the FTF NY Times takes up the [white] men’s plaint: metoo means that EVERY man is in danger of false accusations. He describes Kavanaugh’s behavior as “antics.” The headline:

    This Revolution, Too, Will Eat Its Children
    What this frenzied national inquest means for our civic culture.

    Uh, no. As one of the reader commenters pointed out, Gorsuch got through just fine. There have been no credible sexual accusations against any USSC nominees since Clarence Thomas.

    I think women voters are going to whip these losers’ asses.

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    @TS (the original): Agreed — I don’t trust anyone who voted for Trump to do the right thing in 2018 or 2020 and am doing my best to surreptitiously foment cynicism and apathy among the Trumpsters in my extended family.

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    @satby:

    I would jam ice picks into my ears before I would willingly listen to NPR.

    Might I suggest ear plugs instead? Lower injury rate, and WE WON’T HAVE TO SHOUT WHEN WE’RE REPLYING TO YOU (in the future).

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @different-church-lady: SFAW and Satby: So basically, he’s looking at another graph, is innumerate, AND can’t delineate between the different groups as they are broke down. Got it.

    Net support for Supreme Court nominee dropped 18 points among GOP women.
    and
    @realDonaldTrump approval fell 19 points among GOP women, with 68% approving and 26% disapproving.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    @TS (the original):

    Yes. That’s the general idea of a coordinated campaign, which is what they’re doing. IMO the biggest reason the race is tied is because DeWine has so much name recognition. The wobbly, indecisive people in “suburbs” Ohio Democrats always court know who he is. That’s like a safe bet for them if they’re too lazy to read anything- the name they know.

  49. 49.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    I joined a group of 7 in suburban Maryland to phone bank for Beto last night. Made 54 calls. No open Cruz supporters. Only one person didn’t know who Beto was. Main problem — WAY too many people were afraid I was from La Migra. That was distressing, although I was shocked they trusted me enough to hint at it rather than just hang up.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I just want them to acknowledge that we’re in cloud cuckoo land here. I think they could do it without violating their precious “view from nowhere” stance. Trump lies all the time. They could start there. Daniel Dale of the Toronto Sun covers Trump’s stupid rallies and fact-checks him in real time on Twitter, so it can be done.

    I do get the challenge of it because so much is abnormal — Trump’s strange affect and incoherence, his contempt for women, his weird affinity for creepy tyrants, his antipathy toward allies, etc. So maybe just focus on the lies. It should be the lede in every written or spoken analysis of the speech — Trump told gigantic whoppers non-stop. It would get repetitive because that’s always true, but it’s still important!

  52. 52.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    I love police, I must say. They’re rabid Righties unless it’s about their personal health insurance. Then they’re stalwart union members. It’s the thing I like least about Cordray. His law enforcement worship. Sadly, I think it’s genuine. I think he’s struggling with Issue One because that’s not an authentic position for him.

    He really is a moderate. I supported him over Kuchinich and I would do it again- I think, I KNOW, Kuchinich is a fraud.

    But the truth is he’s an absolutely mainstream Ohio Democrat, death penalty and all. If he leans Left at all it’s on economic issues. He’s a good fit for the state. There are a lot of moderate or Right leaning Democrats in Ohio. No one wants to admit it but it’s the truth. I once attended a STATE dinner where the whole room rose and applauded Hillary Clinton’s anti-flag burning pandering. There were like 3 people out of a room of 500 who stayed seated. I was one of them, but one of maybe three.

  56. 56.

    J R in WV

    @different-church-lady:

    If I seal all my windows and doors with duct tape, will that keep today’s fresh load of horrible from getting in?

    NO, you have to use Duck Tape ~!!~ That duct tape is a cheap and unreliable copy imitation.

    At 08:17 EDT I see nothing new wrong with the B-J app. Just FYI, as I am aware that no one cares about my experience with B-J as I am just another commenting fool.

  58. 58.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: Whatevs. Good morning.

    Had a good night at the doors last night. Abigail Spanberger is pulling ahead of Dave Brat in the suburban counties, but we still have a lot of work to do. The rural counties will go for Brat. Got to turn out our population centers.

  61. 61.

    NotMax

    @Kay

    Not suggesting a direct political parallel, however am reminded of a certain photo from history.

    (Couldn’t readily find the link to the still, link above should be cued up to the specific photo in a video compilation of lots of pix.)

  63. 63.

    bemused

    @Betty Cracker:

    Great idea but can you share tips on how you are fomenting cynicism and apathy and do you think it’s working on your wingnut relatives? I know most, if not all who voted for trump aren’t bothered that everything that comes out of his mouth are blatant lies.

  64. 64.

    Bruuuuce

    I’m not sure what Feinstein and Murkowski are discussing, but it’s possible that Feinstein heard or read this, which was on CNN a couple of days ago in their rolling updates thread on BK:

    CNN just asked Sen. Lisa Murkowski — a key swing vote in Brett Kavanaugh’s conformation process — if there should be a full FBI investigation into allegations from Kavanaugh’s past.

    Here’s how she answered:

    “It would sure clear up all the questions, wouldn’t it?”

    My response, when I posted it on the Book of Faces, was “In that case, Senator, make it happen.”

  65. 65.

    Betty Cracker

    If anyone needs an example of how NOT to cover an insane Trump press conference, Michael M. Gyrnbaum of The Times has graciously provided a clinic on horrible coverage here. An excerpt:

    Mr. Trump denounces news organizations as “the enemy of the people.” His supporters turned “fake news” into a political rallying cry. And the daily White House press briefing is all but a thing of the past.

    But in 80 minutes on Wednesday, Mr. Trump made clear that he is never more comfortable, never more engaged, than when he is sparring with the news media that he loves to say he hates.

    Back on his native turf — a hotel ballroom in Midtown Manhattan, five blocks from Trump Tower — the president strolled onto the stage like a prizefighter eager for the opening bell. An hour later, his enjoyment of the occasion had only increased…

    Not one mention in that long-ass piece that Trump lied repeatedly, treated women reporters contemptuously, contradicted himself, made slanderous claims against private citizens, etc. It’s disgraceful.

  67. 67.

    kindness

    In any normal USA, Kavanaugh’s nomination would have already been pulled. Such is the power of Trump that the Republican Party now favors rapists and pedophiles over the women that report them. And yet they call themselves more Christian than the rest of us. The paradox here? If it were liberals pulling this stunt from a leftist bent Republicans would have already broken out their Second Amendment solutions toolkit. Don’t kid yourselves. Some of them were going to go there had Hillary won. They said as much. I have chosen to believe them.

  69. 69.

    Betty Cracker

    @bemused: The corruption angle seems to resonate with them, at least a little bit. They were infrequent voters before Trump came along because they believe all politicians are crooks. The only thing that really excites them is culture war stuff, and Trump’s open racism was the best thing they’d seen since George Wallace. But Trump’s constant bragging about the economy undercuts that thrill because they’re no better off — they don’t give a shit how high the Dow goes, and they didn’t get anything but chump change from the tax cut.

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: Trumpov’s happiest when he gets to be in full wrestling “heel” mode, and his supporters like him that way too. Full-on asshole mode. It makes them all very happy. Meanwhile, we used to have this thing called a republic.

    I hope the Democratic Senators on the Judiciary Committee give it to Kavanaugh but good today, and call out their cowardly GOP counterparts while they’re at it.

  71. 71.

    bemused

    @Betty Cracker:

    Dan Froomkin wrote on this same issue comparing NYT and WAPO coverage of presser and trump’s attitude toward women. His conclusion WAPO was much better, called out trump’s misogynism.

  72. 72.

    Betty Cracker

    @PPCLI: I meant Star — thank you! I’ll take your word for it that the paper is a right-wing outfit, but Dale seems to have cracked the riddle of how to cover Trump nonetheless.

  73. 73.

    dww44

    @bemused: And there was Jon Meacham doing his best “both siderism” this morning on my teevee. The very fact that pundits can opine about the merits of what Trump says and how he’s so good with his “base” and absolutely ignore the elephant in the room is both horrifying and dispiriting. No one needs to be finding ways to applaud yesterday’s insanity.

  74. 74.

    bemused

    @Betty Cracker:

    OK, I’ll work that angle if/when I get opportunities. Does majority trump/gop tax cuts going benefiting the very wealthy and not average americans resonate with them?

  75. 75.

    PeakVT

    “Back on his native turf — a hotel ballroom in Midtown Manhattan, five blocks from Trump Tower — the president strolled onto the stage like a prizefighter eager for the opening bell. An hour later, his enjoyment of the occasion had only increased…”

    A mind-reader AND a theater critic.

    Also, too, a fucking disgrace AND a threat to the Republic…

  76. 76.

    TS (the original)

    @Betty Cracker: Months ago I took up an offer of a super cheap NYT online subscription. I lasted a month because of this type of reporting. I also have a super cheap WaPo subscription – some days I think I’ll cancel it – but it seems to be the best on offer at the minute with only a few trump apologists still writing for them.

  77. 77.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @kindness:

    They said as much. I have chosen to believe them.

    99.9% are all bark, no bite. The other .1% spend most of their time at the gun range going thru a thousand rounds of ammo at the end of which they only have 10 rounds left and need to get a job so they can buy more ammo. All of which is just to say that, yeah the crazy is out there, but they aren’t likely to hurt you in particular.

  80. 80.

    PPCLI

    @Betty Cracker: The Star is a centre-left paper, and Dale has been for some time one of their rising stars (NPI). Since his next natural promotion for the Star will probably be something on Parliament Hill, he doesn’t need to play the kind of access-cultivating game that wannabe Habermans need to do and that no doubt is liberating.

  81. 81.

    TS (the original)

    O for an Edit function: meant to add this to my last post

    This is the WaPo headline for that press conference

    ‘Give it to me’: Trump lets loose with 81 minutes of bluster, falsehoods and insults

    WaPoLink

  82. 82.

    Betty Cracker

    @bemused: Yes, the tax cut scam angle does seem to resonate — I point out that Trump exploded the deficit (“Remember when y’all used to pretend to care about that?”), which means the GOP will be coming for Social Security and Medicare next. Mind you, they haven’t exactly turned on Trump, but they are more cynical about him now. I think Trump’s own big mouth is more responsible than anything I say. He’s out there yapping about how he’s already fixed the economy, and they can see with their own eyes that’s not true.

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @bemused: Not with my trumpers. They all think their paychecks grew by $150 because of the tax cut. All that overtime they’re working has nothing to do with it,

  85. 85.

    khead

    @Elizabelle:

    metoo means that EVERY man is in danger of false accusations.

    I’m so tired of this shit because I see a lot of it. It goes along with “if they were both drunk, how can we know who consented to what? This sort of thing ruins lives!” I actually had to explain to a douchebro I know that – if you are THAT worried that there is ANY question about consent at the time AND it might come back to “ruin your life” someday – then maybe you should just, you know, walk away and not have sex. They looked at me like I was an alien and told me “You just don’t get it. She can say anything she wants later”. So, it’s basically all a version of “bitches be lyin, amirite?”

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    Countdown to Kavanaugh hearings. 47 minutes. Sending thoughts of strength and resolution to Christine Blasey Ford. You go, girl. You’ve got this.

  87. 87.

    bemused

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Do they know their tax cuts will go away in a few years and GOP is working on more tax cuts for the wealthy and cutting SS/Medicare to pay for filthy rich entitlements?

  91. 91.

    J R in WV

    @Elizabelle:

    I just hit Abigail Spanberger up with another financial contribution… I’m too far away to volunteer in person, but I can chip in some $$.

  93. 93.

    Elizabelle

    LA Times: Here’s what sexual assault experts say you should keep in mind as Christine Blasey Ford shares her story.

    Consider: [and these items have links embedded within for more information]

    • Roughly 31% of sexual assaults are reported to police. That number is lower — 28% — among the elderly, and even lower — 20% — among college-age women.

    • In a survey of sexual violence victims who did not report their assault, 20% cited a fear of retaliation and 13% said they did not believe the police would do anything to help. Another 13% considered the assault “a personal matter,” and 7% said they did not want to get the perpetrator in trouble.

    • Those who stay quiet because they don’t expect action from law enforcement officers may be justified in their thinking. Out of 1,000 sexual assaults, about 310 are reported to police. Among those reports, 57 will lead to an arrest and 11 cases will be referred to prosecutors. Seven of them will lead to a felony conviction and six will lead to incarcerations.

    • Men typically assume that about half of reported sexual assaults are unfounded or completely fabricated, said Kevin Swartout, a Georgia State University psychologist who studies the factors that predispose men to commit these crimes. However, researchers estimate that only 2% to 7% of sexual assault reports are untrue, he said. “It is very rare,” he said. “But it does happen.”

  95. 95.

    jc

    What Feinstein is saying to Murkowski: I remember vividly where I was in 1980 — putting my finger into the bullet wound of the assassinated mayor of San Francisco, who I replaced before I came to Washington. Some things really stick in your memory, Lisa.

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