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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Excellent Read(s): Trump Is A Thief & A Tax Cheat, As Well As A Lousy Businessman

Excellent Read(s): Trump Is A Thief & A Tax Cheat, As Well As A Lousy Businessman

by Anne Laurie|  October 3, 20189:29 pm| 263 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Dolt 45, Excellent Links, Grifters Gonna Grift, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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There are so many ways to *legally* dodge (avoid) taxes in real estate. Striking that even given all those legal loopholes, the Trump family still managed to repeatedly break tax law, assuming NYT reporting is correct

— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) October 3, 2018

Well worth the time it takes to read the whole thing. From the NYTimes, “Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father”:

President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

Mr. Trump won the presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump, provided almost no financial help.

But The Times’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential tax returns and financial records, reveals that Mr. Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

These maneuvers met with little resistance from the Internal Revenue Service, The Times found. The president’s parents, Fred and Mary Trump, transferred well over $1 billion in wealth to their children, which could have produced a tax bill of at least $550 million under the 55 percent tax rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances.

The Trumps paid a total of $52.2 million, or about 5 percent, tax records show…

But if you’re pressed for time, they’ve provided a Shorter: “11 Takeaways From The Times’s Investigation Into Trump’s Wealth”

Think about how dumb in business Trump has to be to get a huge fortune by inheritance, defraud the gov’t of maybe a half billion dollars, and he _still_ ended up indebt to the crime syndicate that runs Russia.

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 3, 2018


we’ve spent 18 months investigating the Trump fortune. But if you don’t have that kinda time right now, here’s 4 short, interesting videos explaining how Fred Trump made his children rich.https://t.co/cASblRNDAH

— gabriel dance (@gabrieldance) October 2, 2018

Phillip Bump, at the Washington Post, on “The two pillars of Trump’s origin myth dislodged by the Times’s new investigation”:

… That “$1 million” loan Trump got from his father was, in fact, much higher, the Times reported. We already knew that it was probably higher than reported, thanks to prior reporting that put the figure closer to $14 million. But the Times had it much higher — with Trump getting a seed of $60.7 million from his father.

Why does that matter? For one thing, as the story notes, it makes his subsequent financial success seem much less dramatic. Had Trump invested that loan in a fund that simply tracked the S&P 500, he would today be worth just shy of $2 billion, about $1 billion less than what Forbes estimates he is actually worth. “Loans” of $1 million or $14 million are less dramatic in their effect…

But there’s another bit of mythology that the Times seems to hobble. Trump’s presentation of himself is as a savvy manipulator of the rules. On the campaign trail, he would argue that his use of offshore labor to produce his products or his contributions to politicians were examples not of hypocrisy but of his shrewdly employing loopholes to his company’s own benefit. His campaign even waved off reports about his not paying income taxes by saying he had a “fiduciary responsibility” to pay as little tax as possible.

What the Times presents, though, is a picture not of shrewd manipulation of the rules but an at-times willful disregard for them. Fred Trump is the architect of the effort to shield his children’s inheritances from excessive taxes, but Trump is presented as both a participant in the effort and, at times, an innovator…

Anyone else remember the slur He’d steal the pennies off a dead man’s eyes?

NYT: When his father was 85, Trump tried to change his father's will to benefit himself. His father was alarmed, wouldn't consent, stripped Trump of sole control over his estate. pic.twitter.com/vVmf4l4Kg2

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) October 2, 2018

In a functioning government, the NYT story would result in immediate bipartisan legislation forcing Trump to release his tax returns. In a functioning government.

— Schooley (@Rschooley) October 2, 2018

Statement from the NY State Taxation authority, regarding this blockbuster NYT story: "The Tax Department is reviewing the allegations in the NYT article and is vigorously pursuing all appropriate avenues of investigation." https://t.co/rACzwJPPx0

— David Fahrenthold (@Fahrenthold) October 2, 2018

White House @PressSec slams bombshell New York Times report on sources of Trump's wealth, calling it both "highly defamatory" and "very boring." https://t.co/kyy7wXLW8H

— Christina Wilkie (@christinawilkie) October 3, 2018

That said, you would not BELIEVE how many attack ads in House/gov/Senate races are about how such-and-such candidate didn't pay all their taxes. https://t.co/AjkvGODKwu

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) October 2, 2018

Yet, at the same time it is also an accidental confessional and partially indicting of the Times’ itself.

Tucked among the 13,000 words is a single paragraph about the Times’ role in erecting the false edifice of the swaggering, young impresario who never was.

2/

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) October 3, 2018


 
And it’s not just the NYTimes poking holes in Trump’s boasts…

"Much as he’s trying—and he’s definitely trying—Donald Trump is not getting richer off the presidency. Just the opposite. His net worth, by our calculation, has dropped from $4.5 billion in 2015 to $3.1 billion the last two years" https://t.co/KzvQJDnTg0

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) October 2, 2018

Unless he’s at the UN, of course https://t.co/ZdLmUSx6HW

— Alessandra T Codinha (@ATCodinha) October 3, 2018

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Reader Interactions

263Comments

  1. 1.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    OT:
    When did it become a thing for sitcoms to be centered around 20 somethings and not 30 somethings or older?

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 3, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Friends?

  3. 3.

    Kelly

    October 3, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    There seems to be some questions about the feds indicting a sitting US President. Would the state of New York be able to indict him on state charges?

  4. 4.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 3, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    Unless he’s at the UN, of course

    I’m not sure he even got the last laugh in the election. Yes, he won, but it turned to shit for him so fast the walls and ceiling are coated.

  5. 5.

    Jerzy Russian

    October 3, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    Most people would have their asses hounded by the IRS for actions that are a small fraction of what Trump did. Can we have some white collar criminal trials now?

  6. 6.

    kindness

    October 3, 2018 at 9:38 pm

    It’s raining here in N. Cal. Finally.

  7. 7.

    columbusqueen

    October 3, 2018 at 9:38 pm

    This only confirms my belief that the Cohen case will end in a RICO complaint against the Trump Organization. The Trumps always operated like a mob family, now they’re going to go down like one.

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    Newsflash: Water is wet.

  9. 9.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    @Jerzy Russian:

    Can we have some white collar criminal trials now?

    Sure. Right after the Senate convicts him on the Articles of Impeachment.

  10. 10.

    James E Powell

    October 3, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    Maybe it’s beating a dead horse, but I have to believe that the NYT could have turned up this story sometime prior November 2016. Or perhaps I’m being unfair. Maybe with all their available staff were working on the 800th critical story about Hillary’s emails.

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @Kelly: Everything in The NY Times expose is past the statute of limitations at both the Federal and state level. That time limit is six years from the date of the offense. There is no statute of limitations for civil suits to claw back what was supposed to be paid plus interest. If the state of New York, or even the IRS, decide to take action on this it will be on the civil side. However, it is highly likely that the President never adjusted his behavior after his father died. So there may be more recent activity that he could be criminally investigated and potentially charged for.

  12. 12.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    @James E Powell:

    Maybe with all their available staff were working on the 800th critical story about Hillary’s emails.

    Asshole. You KNOW it was only 749 stories.

    Trust a libtard to lie and exaggerate

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 9:50 pm

    @James E Powell

    Apparently the Trump-attached person in whose basement boxes and boxes of records and documents were found (and the story relied upon) was still alive then.

  14. 14.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    That’s what I thought. Still, now that I think of it, there are still plenty of shows that focus on 30 somethings but those are usually family sitcoms like The Middle and the Goldbergs.

    So, unpopular opinion time: Kevin James was funny in King of Queens

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    So, unpopular opinion time: Kevin James was funny in King of Queens

    You keep this type of behavior up and on the ban list you go!

  16. 16.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 3, 2018 at 9:57 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    So, unpopular opinion time: Kevin James was funny in King of Queens

    How the fuck would I know?

  17. 17.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 3, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    I read the article on Trump’s net worth. It’s neat. Summary for the tl;dr crowd:

    Trump is raking it in making corrupt millions in all the ways we’ve talked about. It’s not enough. Advertisers want nothing to do with him. Major companies don’t want to book his properties. His rental buildings are empty. Membership of his clubs is way down. His brands aren’t selling, and partners are pulling out of them. Rich and poor, people don’t want Trump anything because he’s hated. MAGA stuff doesn’t come anywhere near making up for it. Toss on top of that annoying extra security his high end customers have to wade through, some crappy real estate decisions, and public scrutiny determining that he inflated the value of some of his properties, and in balance he’s losing money.

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 3, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    Anyone else remember the slur He’d steal the pennies off a dead man’s eyes?

    SNORT. I hadn’t paid attention to or even noticed the identity of the front-pager of this post, but the second I saw this line I knew it just had to be Anne Laurie!

  19. 19.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis (1959 – 1963) focused on high school age and later college aged folk.

    Just sayin’.

  20. 20.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Um… Everybody Loves Raymond was really funny. Is that better?

  21. 21.

    Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.

    October 3, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    An interesting twist: the journalist David Cay Johnston was a reporter who covered Trump deeply in the 80s and 90s, his early 2015 article “21 Questions for Donald Trump” is like the Rosetta Stone of Trump scandals. He has since become a leading author on taxes / tax policy. So what he thinks of all this I am just about dying to know.

  22. 22.

    Jeffro

    October 3, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    @columbusqueen:

    This only confirms my belief that the Cohen case will end in a RICO complaint against the Trump Organization. The Trumps always operated like a mob family, now they’re going to go down like one.

    Thank you, been saying this for 2+ years now. The only thing the Org really does is launder money and avoid paying taxes. RICO, RICO, RIIIIIICO! Take it all from him and his scuzzy kids and see what they think about “lock. her. up!” after that.

  23. 23.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    No, no, it is not.

    Not worthy of a ban hammer. Maybe a whack with a wet ban noodle.

    ;)

  24. 24.

    Jerzy Russian

    October 3, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    @SFAW: I have told you millions of times before not to exaggerate!

  25. 25.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 3, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    @NotMax: I think he’s referring to when it became such that it was a lot of sitcoms. Like if you asked when situational comedy became a thing period, only a smartass would say Aristophanes.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:04 pm

    @Jeffro

    Yup. The grift that keeps on giving.

  27. 27.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:04 pm

    @NotMax:
    Bob Denver was on that show. I read that a lot of the characters for Scooby-Doo were based on those in The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:05 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: No, no it wasn’t.

  29. 29.

    TS (the original)

    October 3, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    O/T

    I’m going to be positive about Jeff Flake at the minute. I think he voted Kavanaugh out of committee – with the need for an FBI check – to give himself some company on the floor. In committee he is the deciding vote to reject Kavanaugh, in the Senate he needs some company. If he refused to vote him out of committee, McConnell could still have called for a vote – and there would have been no further discussion. By what Flake did, he is forcing at least 2 dems and 2 other republicans to show how they are voting. Forcing Collins to not only say she is concerned – but vote to prove it – is a good thing. Murkowski may have always voted NO, but she needs company for it to matter.

    If Flake’s Senate legacy is that he kept a mysoginist drunk off the SCOTUS that should be good for further ambitions.

  30. 30.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    @NotMax:
    Didn’t you see the episode where Ray’s parents backed their car in his living room? Easily the best episode of the series.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    @Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.: Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive…

    What the superb and richly documented @nytimes expose of Trump tells us — my @DCReportMedia piece today.https://t.co/FSS2vAbibW pic.twitter.com/RDqOIGNrZ5

    — David Cay Johnston (@DavidCayJ) October 3, 2018

  32. 32.

    Jay

    October 3, 2018 at 10:08 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    No, you need real comedy, like “Still Game”, or “Kim’s Convenience”

  33. 33.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Basically, yeah. Friends was probably the turning point.

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Having experienced a minivan driving through the front of my store (and if I’d been standing where I was five seconds prior I wouldn’t be here today), not exactly a laff inducing situation.

    Trying to scrounge up sheets of plywood to board up the windows and door, on a Sunday night, was… not fun.

  35. 35.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Fresh Prince of Bel Air?

  36. 36.

    Bill Arnold

    October 3, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    Has this been linked? It’s well-written, by Eric Levitz. I particularly appreciate that it’s full of relevant hyperlinks. Hoping that this is an emerging style.
    Kavanaugh’s Partisan Rage Was Disqualifying – Even If He’s Innocent

    Kavanaugh could have exhibited grace under fire. He could have acknowledged that it was reasonable that a majority of U.S. senators expected him to formally respond to an allegation of sexual assault, made under oath, before approving his lifetime appointment to the nation’s most powerful court. He could have put himself in the shoes of Americans who weren’t inclined to believe him — of ordinary Democratic voters, and sexual-assault survivors watching from home — and evinced sympathy for their concerns. He could have signaled that he felt an obligation to assure them that their country wasn’t about to put a sex criminal on its highest court.

    Kavanaugh had plenty of options. He freely chose to launch a tendentious, partisan diatribe that violated his own avowed standards for proper judicial conduct. And the result was not a “competent defense,” but an indictment of his fitness for a judgeship of any kind.

    I think the blatant obvious lying is disqualifying (some of it being objectively confirmed as lying), but that is apparently old-school.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Much of it still holds up. Some of the later episodes were positively surreal.

  38. 38.

    debbie

    October 3, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    Imagine doing that to the man who gave you everything you have. I don’t care about statute of limitations; I am glad for anything that tarnishes this prick.

  39. 39.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    cary grant, get out GIF https://t.co/xKjjUiBXFM pic.twitter.com/yz1Prora98

    — Glitmail (@GlitMail) January 18, 2017

  40. 40.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 3, 2018 at 10:17 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I have a fast car and sharp knives.

  41. 41.

    M. Bouffant

    October 3, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    DOG BITES MAN!

  42. 42.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Sonic Boom?

  43. 43.

    Kelly

    October 3, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks

  44. 44.

    Mary G

    October 3, 2018 at 10:20 pm

    They are banking on us being dazed & confused & exhausted. I am all of those things, and if you are too, I see you. I really, really do.But we just have to keep at it. I don't want to either. But we have to.— Emily L. Hauser (@emilylhauser) October 4, 2018

  45. 45.

    M. Bouffant

    October 3, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump

    Really, NYT? “Legendary”? Even now?

    There is no hope. (Not that there ever was any.)

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Hey, Seinfeld focused on 12-year-olds. They just happened to inhabit 30-something-year-old bodies.

    ;)

  47. 47.

    SRW1

    October 3, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    Maybe Trump could send Kush-Kush to, like, Saudi-Arabia after some protection money.

    There’s got to be more opportunities in that business than merely Qatar!

  48. 48.

    oldgold

    October 3, 2018 at 10:24 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    True, the statutes of limitation will not allow the IRS or New York’s DoR
    to proceed against Trump for the gross tax frauds reported by the NYT.

    But, leopards do not change their spots. I suspect the Trumps are currentlyengaged in the same or very similar tax frauds. As such, the NYT’s report is a road map for where tax authorities and financial journalists should now be looking.

  49. 49.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:25 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Huh?

  50. 50.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 3, 2018 at 10:27 pm

    @NotMax: maybe Goku can ask his great grandparents about that show

  51. 51.

    smintheus

    October 3, 2018 at 10:27 pm

    Trump supposedly sent out a text message to everyone today. Was the one sent to Christine Blasey Ford insulting, or did Trump manage to be civil?

  52. 52.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 3, 2018 at 10:29 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: nah, it didn’t really take off until Moliere

  53. 53.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    @Steve in the ATL

    Eh? Speak up, sonny.

    :)

  54. 54.

    Yutsano

    October 3, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    @Mary G: Oh I do miss her around these parts. But she’s fun on Twitter.

  55. 55.

    Bill Arnold

    October 3, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    @TS (the original):

    mysoginist drunk

    Lying hyper-partisan misogynistic angry drunk. Perhaps a sexual predator too, and worse.
    DJ Trump’s strong dislike of drunks has been AWOL, not sure why.
    Frustrated, since he’ll destroy the Supreme Court if confirmed. (It was partially destroyed in Bush v Gore, but not everyone agrees on that.) Especially if he doesn’t recuse himself for all partisan cases.
    All the Ways a Justice Kavanaugh Would Have to Recuse Himself (By Laurence H. Tribe, Oct. 1, 2018)

  56. 56.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Now my advice for those who die (Taxman!)
    Declare the pennies on your eyes (Taxman!)
    Cause I’m the taxman, yeah, I’m the taxman
    And you’re working for no one but me (Taxman!)…

  57. 57.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    Aaron Blake
    ‏Verified account
    @AaronBlake
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    “President Donald Trump and his siblings could owe New York state more than $400 million in unpaid taxes, interest and penalties based on the New York Times report”

    It’s probably really important that they start enforcing tax collection re: wealthy and powerful people, because if they;re scofflaws then ordinary people will stop paying taxes, too. This thing runs on consent. They’re aren’t enough regulators to go after every tax cheat if ordinary people all start behaving like decadent and corrupt Trump family members.

    No one really likes paying taxes, but we do it and no one has to haul us into court to get the payment. They should have to pay up it too. If they don’t, it’s a joke and eventually people will figure that out.

    There’s a cost to this and it’s not just the taxes the Trumps didn’t pay. Unlike the Trumps, the vast majority of people pay what they owe and they do it without the IRS seizing assets or imposing penalties or prosecuting. That honor system has to keep working or they better hire a shitload of agents.

  58. 58.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 3, 2018 at 10:34 pm

    @Bill Arnold: and get no one can make a Supreme Court justice recuse himself. Ask Scalia about that.

  59. 59.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 10:36 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I LOVE Kevin James. I have no idea why. I think he’s funny, and personable, and cute. I’m sure I’ve said before that I would TOTALLY date him in real life if he was anything like the characters he plays.

    Don’t judge me!!

    Please dont’ tell me he’s a wingnut.

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:36 pm

    @oldgold: That’s why these were the final two sentences of that comment.

    However, it is highly likely that the President never adjusted his behavior after his father died. So there may be more recent activity that he could be criminally investigated and potentially charged for.

  61. 61.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    @chick_in_kiev
    Follow Follow @chick_in_kiev
    More Talia Boo! ? Lavin Retweeted Seung Min Kim
    it’s cool how thoroughly he’s gonna betray them with his vote

    @seungminkim
    Follow Follow @seungminkim
    More
    .@BenSasse is now emotionally talking about how two of his friends have been raped.

    He says the #MeToo movement has been “complicated” but also a “very good thing”

    8:26 PM – 3 Oct 2018

    https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1047671254931656705

    ugh…this guy and Flake…make my eyes roll…HARD

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    @smintheus:

    Tiffany Trump Receives First Ever Text From Father https://t.co/GRuTbsKfTF

    — The Hard Times (@REALpunknews) October 3, 2018

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 3, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    @Kay: my father was a pretty successful businessman, so people often assume he’s a right-winger, he very much is not. Once, I was probably 13 or 14, one of my cousins was bragging about all the side jobs he did that didn’t report so he didn’t pay taxes on a good chunk of his income. I could tell my father was getting angry and I later asked him why, he said “I have to pay the taxes he doesn’t”

  64. 64.

    Brickley Paiste

    October 3, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    @James E Powell:

    And you believe the hundreds of thousands of pages of documents on which they rely were available to the NYT in 2016?

    What do you base that on?

  65. 65.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    Of all the norms that have gone by the wayside I still find it shocking that the President and his family don’t pay their taxes.

    I mean, wow. It really calls the credibility of the whole system into question. WTF? We all pay but they don’t? This is now accepted? And everyone knows. That’s why they won’t release their tax returns. Everyone knows why they won’t. Yet tax time will come around again and the vast majority of us will pay without sanctions or NYTimes exposes or indictments and the Trumps will continue with the fraud.

  66. 66.

    Bill Arnold

    October 3, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    They’re aren’t enough regulators to go after every tax cheat if ordinary people all start behaving like decadent and corrupt Trump family members.

    Greece! https://www.economist.com/free-exchange/2012/09/04/in-flagrante
    (Conservatives like to make fun of Greece.)

  67. 67.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 10:43 pm

    @NotMax: One night as I lay in bed reading in my first apartment a runaway Chevy Monza slammed through the wrought iron patio railing & came to a stop 6″ short of the sliding glass doors. Fortunately said doors opened onto the living rm down the hall, or the maintenance guys might still be chipping pieces of yerstruly out of the ceiling… Funny to realize that was over 40 years ago.

  68. 68.

    Mart

    October 3, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: My wife gets in bed and watches K of Q reruns every night. Once I arrived to our hotel room in Germany after my wife, and she had K of Q on in German with no English subtitles. I went to shut off and she protested, even though we speak nil German.

  69. 69.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Sonic Boom

    The writers even made a joke in an episode about “a poorly written article about the mayor’s email server”.

  70. 70.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @M. Bouffant:

    Were it any reputable paper other than the FTFTFNYT, I’d wonder whether they were using “Legendary” the way baseball fans talk about “Legendary Hitter Mario Mendoza..” But since the second “TF” in the abbreviation stands for “Trump Fellating,” I already know the answer.

  71. 71.

    debbie

    October 3, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    @Kay:

    Taxes are for little people.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    No one likes sending them thousands of dollars, particularly when I’m sending it to low quality Trump hires who will just spend it on chartered jets, but we all do it! MOST people pay. The vast, vast majority. Because, guess what? If millions of people behaved like this there aren’t enough regulators in the country to police them all. It ONLY works because we do it without being forced to. If we had to be forced they couldn’t manage it- there are too many of us.

    They better pray that compliance continues because without it the whole thing collapses.

  73. 73.

    opiejeanne

    October 3, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Why would you think Adam would know about that?

  74. 74.

    Aleta

    October 3, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    (WaPo) My roommates and I got a low draw in the dorm-room lottery sophomore year at Yale and wound up in a suite on York Street overlooking Demery’s, a dive frequented by motorcycle gang members because of its cheap beer and huge triangles of the world’s worst pizza. Often on weeknights we would be kept awake by what we dubbed “fight night,” when the bar’s patrons spilled onto the street at closing time, shouting and throwing punches until the police came. Little did we know that we were witnessing a piece of history.

    It’s theoretically possible that Kavanaugh was at Demery’s at 1 a.m. having a Coke with his pizza. Likewise, it’s theoretically possible Kavanaugh pledged the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity at Yale even though he didn’t like to get drunk a lot — in the same way it’s also possible that somebody might join the Whiffenpoofs even though he doesn’t like to sing.

    I didn’t know Kavanaugh at Yale. We overlapped for a year. But I’m chagrined to admit that I am extensively familiar with the Yale drinking scene of the time, and from mutual friends and acquaintances I have a good sense of the 1980s Kavanaugh and his alcohol intake.

    This much is obvious: He’s not being honest. To be clear, I’m not addressing the allegations of sexual misbehavior. But it’s just silly to dispute that he drank a lot.

    Kavanaugh said he always remembered what happened when he drank, and he disputed notions that he was “frequently drunk” or a “sloppy drunk.” Said he, under oath: “I was in Cross Campus Library every night.”
    President Trump picked up on this image of the sober scholar, repeatedly saying Kavanaugh was “number one in his class at Yale.”

    Yale didn’t calculate class rank, and Kavanaugh’s “cum laude” status was shared by nearly half the class back then. I am living proof that the distinction didn’t demonstrate academic brilliance or evidence of sobriety.

    Kavanaugh was a frat boy, and DKE was the most notorious frat, populated by jocks and known for multi-keg bashes. Fraternity membership wasn’t common then, but they hosted “Tang” (a speed beer-drinking competition) and the “keg suck.”

    Many of these party animals were also smart. One DKE man my year, if memory serves, stuck quarters in his nostrils and rode the Zamboni dressed as Captain Freedom during hockey intermissions; now he’s a leading surgeon.

    Drinking was a big part of the overall Yale culture. … I’m not proud of it, but I was very much part of that culture.

    I won’t fault Kavanaugh for majoring in beer when I pursued similar coursework. But his failure to come clean about this past is another matter.

    He clearly calculated that any admission of blacking out, or anything less than 100 percent recall, would discredit his denial of the sexual misconduct allegations.

    But admitting the obvious about his boozy college years would at least have avoided this ludicrous litigation over a UB40 doppelganger at Demery’s.

  75. 75.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    @VanityFair
    In private, reports @EmilyJaneFox, Ivanka is echoing her father when it comes to Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh http://vntyfr.com/w0tXexe

  76. 76.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 10:48 pm

    @NotMax: Like the one where Dobie is raising chickens on growth hormone in the basement for his science project & eventually Mr. Gillis has to take a shotgun to the human-size chicken head poking thru the basement door? Yee-haw! :D

  77. 77.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 10:49 pm

    @opiejeanne:
    I didn’t. I just wanted to plug it.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They print the unpaid property taxes in the newspaper here every year. You won’t find any business owners on that list, because they believe that would harm their reputation. They have to keep believing that. If they don’t believe it this whole fragile structure comes crashing down.

  79. 79.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    October 3, 2018 at 10:52 pm

    @Kay: I suggested in an earlier thread someone is crafting or has crafted an article about his cleverly cheating death ( (taxes) and striking a blow for the downtrodden minority (wealthy-americans).

  80. 80.

    sralloway

    October 3, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Maynard G Krebs. The G is silent. His middle name is Walter. Loved that show as a kid.

  81. 81.

    VOR

    October 3, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    @Kay: Back in 2012 I realized I was paying a higher tax rate than either Obama or Mitt Romney. And you know Romney re-filed his taxes after he lost on a more favorable basis.

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    October 3, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    @sralloway:

    There was also Al’s cousin Steve Franken as Chatsworth Osborne III. I loved him. And Tuesday Weld as Thalia!

  83. 83.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 3, 2018 at 10:56 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I went to Jr. High with Bob’s son, nice kid.

  84. 84.

    Ohio Mom

    October 3, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I had never heard that Dobie Gillis was the basis for the Scooby Doo characters but now that you say it, it’s obvious.

    I don’t remember all the Dobie Gillis character’s names but there was a beauty Dobie was in love with, who was turned into Daphne; a smart and nerdy gal named Zelda, who was turned into Velma; a rich fellow, turned into Fred; Maynard G. Krebs is obviously the model for Shaggy — but who is Dobie? I guess Scooby himself.

    I loved Dobie Gillis, only tolerated Scooby for Ohio Son’s sake.

  85. 85.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    @sralloway

    “Work?!?”

    Named for his Aunt Walter.

    :)

    @Uncle Cosmo

    Yeah, it seems that once they knew it would be the final season all bets were off.

  86. 86.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 3, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    @zhena gogolia: wasn’t Dobie Gillis the show Warren Beatty was on that he later kind of Kavanaugh’d about having been on?

    Sally Field was always straight fucking up about Gidget and Sister Betrille

  87. 87.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: NO!

  88. 88.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @sralloway: The HS beatnik who, whenever the dreaded W-word was spoken in his presence, echoed it in an anguished broken-voiced shout: W*O*R*K!!

  89. 89.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @lamh36:

    That’s a bad sign. When they roll out the sanctimonious frauds to “soften the blow” that means they’re getting ready to deliver one. A blow.

    I truly loathe how conservative men treat assaults on women. They adopt this patronizing, smarmy “feeling” language that is itself insulting and belittling. It’s an assault. It’s like punching someone in the face. Because it happens to women it doesn’t somehow become complex and psychological. Maybe they should stop trying to “understand” and just put it on the “assault” basket. That’s easy. No grabbing people and holding them down and trying to hurt them. That’s against the rules. Are they opposed to assaults- whether they’re face punching or raping? Okay, then. If she had said Kavanaugh walked up to her and smashed her in the face conservative men wouldn’t need a seminar to get that. Why do they need it with this?

  90. 90.

    tobie

    October 3, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    I don’t think I saw a link to this piece today in the New York Daily News from a conservative, retired judge in NY named Robert Smith. In the op ed he explains why in spite of his conservative leanings, he now opposes Kavanaugh’s nomination.

    His testimony was awful. He has plenty of excuse for that. He and his family have been under huge stress. He probably believes he’s totally innocent. I don’t blame him for being angry — but I do blame him for letting his anger impair his judgment. He has been around the block enough to know that a witness shouldn’t rail at “the Clintons,” or ask a senator if she likes beer.

  91. 91.

    smintheus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    @Kay: Nixon didn’t pay his income taxes. Hence his famous promise:

    “I am not a crook.”

  92. 92.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 3, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Ask Scalia about that.

    He’s still dead, Steve.

  93. 93.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 3, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    anybody else got an earworm of the Scooby Doo theme song now?

  94. 94.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 11:05 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Chatsworth Osborne, Jr,, IIRC – & IMDB confirms,

  95. 95.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    @Kay: it’s maddening….like..oh…really Sasse…what can you do…oh I know…VOTE NO FUQ’ER!

    Keep ya damn stories and just FUQ’N VOTE NO…but who amongst us really believe Sasse is gonna vote NO?

    I’d say NO ONE!

  96. 96.

    zhena gogolia

    October 3, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, I think he was on it. Too lazy to check!

  97. 97.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Fuck you all. I posted songs below and no one cared. Suffer. Suffer in hell.

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    @zhena gogolia

    Originally written as Milton Armitage, played by Warren Beatty!

    The Osborne mansion also housed a complete radio station, installed by “a handyman who worked here for a time, name of Marconi or something.” Mrs. Osborne was given some of the plummiest lines and the actress played them to the hilt.

  99. 99.

    zhena gogolia

    October 3, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    So sue me. It’s been 50 years or so.

  100. 100.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: And he’s still a scumbag. I don’t care how many operas he went to with The Notorious RBG,

  101. 101.

    tobie

    October 3, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, no, no, don’t go down that path with that damned cartoon dog!

  102. 102.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:11 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Why such a strong reaction?

  103. 103.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 3, 2018 at 11:12 pm

    @zhena gogolia: 55, unless you saw it in reruns – but I remembered! :p

  104. 104.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 3, 2018 at 11:13 pm

    @smintheus: Actually Nixon got audited(and released his tax returns during the audit) and had to pay up.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    @lamh36:

    Back in the day, when men weren’t prosecuted for hitting their wives, men started this elaborate analysis in the legal system. What to do, what to do? Men were hitting their wives and it fell into this grey area! It was full of emotions- well, their emotions, mostly, but emotions. Then one or two women suggested they just enforce existing assault laws whether people were married to the assaulter or not. Eureka! It was no longer agonizing! It was pretty simple, really. You can’t beat the shit out of your neighbor OR your wife.
    Republican men should try that. Keep it simple. Keep their emotions out of it. Back to basics, for the slow learners who didn’t get it the first time, in 1959.

  106. 106.

    burnspbesq

    October 3, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    @oldgold:

    True, the statutes of limitation will not allow the IRS or New York’s DoR
    to proceed against Trump for the gross tax frauds reported by the NYT.

    Wrong yet again. There are three relevant statutes of limitation, only one of which you have correctly stated.

    The statutes of limitation on the crimes of income tax evasion, subscribing to a false return, etc., have indeed run. See Internal Revenue Code §. 6531.

    However, on the civil side, in the case of a false or fraudulent return with intent to evade, the additional tax due can be assessed at any time. See Code § 6501(c)(1).

    And the 10-year statute of limitation on collection doesn’t start to run until the date of assessment. See Code § 6502.

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 3, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: was one of them Three Coins in a Fountain?

  108. 108.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:15 pm

    @zhena gogolia

    Mrs. Osborne (to Chatsworth): You’re a nasty boy. You’re going to end up like your grandfather. You know what he died of? (comedic beat) Nastiness!

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    October 3, 2018 at 11:15 pm

    @Kay:

    Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) released a statement today saying that the alcohol and sexual assault allegations had shown up on Kavanaugh’s previous background checks, but were not considered disqualifying at the time:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1047601056157507586

    I’m going to repeat myself again: I guarantee you that it’s an open secret among Republicans that Kavanaugh is a heavy drinker who gets gropey when he drinks, and they nominated him anyway. ?

  110. 110.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Behold, Scooby Doo, Where Are You, circa 2002

  111. 111.

    bmoak

    October 3, 2018 at 11:18 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Scooby-Doo was basically the main cast of Dobie Gillis plus a dog and a van. CBS honcho Fred Silverman specifically told the show developers at Hanna-Barbera to base the show’s characters on the Dobie Gillis.

    Fred=Dobie Gillis
    Daphne=Thalia Meninger
    Velma=Zelda Gilroy
    Shaggy=Maynard J. Krebs

  112. 112.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:18 pm

    @lamh36:

    He wrote a whole book about how kids today are lazy. This is what he spends his spare time doing- scolding 50 million children he doesn’t even know. Come on- no one read that book. It’s just pure self-indulgence. Like an orgy of sanctimony.

  113. 113.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    @Kay:

    That’s a bad sign. When they roll out the sanctimonious frauds to “soften the blow” that means they’re getting ready to deliver one. A blow.

    “In recent days, I have spent many hours thinking about the competing testimonies of Judge Kavanaugh and Miss Ford. I have lady friends who actually HAVE been sexually assaulted, and my heart breaks for the pain they continue to suffer.

    “That being said, I think it would set a terrible precedent to deny this good man a seat on the Supreme Court, based on the testimony of one lady who was apparently having some doubts about her own recollection of the alleged incident. It is clear to me that her accusations would not stand up in a court of law. And so, it is with a heavy heart that I cast my vote to approve Justice Kavanaugh, and I hope that he can find it in his heart to forgive his accusers for the pain they have caused him and his family.”

    I don’t think Suzy Q will have the figurative stones to utter something like this, but I bet one of the “thoughtful” Republicans will pull that shit.

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Sit in the corner and contemplate your sins.

    ;)

  115. 115.

    smintheus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: I’m pretty sure that gag was stolen from the final scene of a very popular Italian movie of the previous year, I Soliti Ignoti, about a group of pathetic small time crooks (a send-up of Rififi). In the scene, an elderly crook cries out plaintively to his companion, who’s been accidentally swept along with a mass of job seekers into a factory:

    “You know, they make you work here!”

  116. 116.

    Amir Khalid

    October 3, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @M. Bouffant:
    Well, Woody Guthrie didn’t write songs about just anybody.

  117. 117.

    James E Powell

    October 3, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    As a pre-teen Catholic boy, Sister Bertrille caused me all kinds of problems.

  118. 118.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    The 90s-early 2000s TV animated movies were really excellent.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s really nerve wracking because they want him so bad they must have big plans for him. I know everyone thinks it’s Roe but the money people in the GOP don’t give a shit about abortion. They want him because he’s going to destroy the legal basis for federal regulation. They see a BIG payoff or they wouldn’t be going to the mat for this asshole when they could get someone identical but with a lot less baggage. Has to be HIM. THIS far Right judge.

  120. 120.

    James E Powell

    October 3, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    @NotMax:

    Sure, because the nation’s premier investigative reporters really can’t do too much until a story fall in their laps.

  121. 121.

    Ruckus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    @Kay:
    What about that rich doofus who owes 7 billion in back taxes? One of the Mercers if I not mistaken. He makes shitgibbon look like a fat orange bag of lawn fertilizer.
    I’d bet that if a really hard look was taken at the top 1%, they would owe between them, lots and lots of billions from fraudulent tax schemes. But there is so much money moving around and used in dubious ways, specifically to avoid taxes, that to me it’s sure bet that a lot of money is owed. But they can fight it and even if they lose once in a while they win far more than they lose, just by being able to rig the game.

  122. 122.

    M. Bouffant

    October 3, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    Dobie’s Zelda is now an L.A. County Supervisor.

    And Maynard G. Krebs was the best thing on the telly in those days.

  123. 123.

    smintheus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Actually, a Providence Journal reporter decided to dig into Nixon’s tax returns and discovered that he had paid no taxes during 2 years he was president. There was nothing voluntary about the disclosure.

  124. 124.

    The Dangerman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I guarantee you that it’s an open secret among Republicans that Kavanaugh is a heavy drinker who gets gropey when he drinks, and they nominated him anyway.

    I agree; I would guess that before “Me, too”, Ford (and the others) probably stay silent.

    I think my last post went to WP Heaven (it was a peaceful passing), so I’ll try again. If Roe goes down 5-4 ever, the Right gets a Cat5 shitstorm (I know many Right leaning or hard Right women who say Roe will never go down; they may be in for a surprise…

    …but if Roe goes down 5-4 and Kavanaugh is the 5th, well, can Shitstorms go to a Cat6 or higher? Do the Republicans really want to go there?

  125. 125.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @Kay: sigh, this is gonna be a long azz weekend. My only weekend off this month until the end of the month. Then the midterms. I’m seriously thinking about a social media blackout until Sunday.

    I was off last Friday when dude was voted out of committee and prior to Flake’s FBI stunt (yeah, I’m calling it a stunt, after seeing NOTHING in Flake’s statements since learning how limited the scope was, makes me believe he’ll vote NO) I was getting way more emotional than I thought I would at the thought of this guy being on the SCOTUS.

    I’m not sure if I can take another couple of days like last week, esp if it goes the way my gut tells me.

    Might be a perfect time for a no social media self care weekend

  126. 126.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @SFAW:

    They only get conciliatory when they’re getting ready to screw someone and they think they’re there. If one of them says “bring the country together” it’s a done deal.

    “Now it’s time to drop the rancor and accept that douchebag will be ascending to his throne” I feel bad for all the earnest liberal advocates who have to go in there and pretend they’re getting a hearing. They’re not. Mr. Umpire told the whole country he plays for a team, and they’re not on his team. I’m sorry they have to waste their hard work and their valuable time. They may as well take their case to Karl Rove.

  127. 127.

    Amir Khalid

    October 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Did Durbin say why the allegations of habitual binge drinking and sexual assaults were not disqualifying?

  128. 128.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:29 pm

    @Kay:
    Call me crazy, but couldn’t states like California ignore the Supreme Court’s decisions if they were egregious enough? What could the SC do?

  129. 129.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:29 pm

    @Ruckus:

    It’s like in the early 2000’s when people were looking for where wage hikes went and someone finally noticed how much we were paying CEO’s. We found the money! They had it the whole time.

  130. 130.

    John Revolta

    October 3, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    @debbie:

    Taxes are for little people.

    I should mention for anyone who doesn’t know that this quote was from Leona Helmsley, another NYC real estate billionaire. She wasn’t kidding either.
    She actually did time for tax evasion but that’s was because she was so awful that she was giving rich fucks a bad name. Everybody in NY knows the real estate racket was and is thoroughly corrupt from bottom to top.

    @Kay: “That means I’m smart.” He wasn’t kidding either either.

  131. 131.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    @M. Bouffant

    Maynard even did an occasional guest spot.

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    October 3, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    @Kay:

    In my more paranoid moments, I think he’s being sent there to be the enforcer on the conservative judges, because the Russians provided kompromat on them. But he could just be going there as an everyday political enforcer with no Russian assistance.

    We already know he’s not going to be an impartial decision-maker just calling balls and strikes. He told us that during his testimony. He’s going there to be a partisan hack and give American oligarchs everything they ever wanted. Vacating Roe v Wade and making abortion illegal is just the sop they’re going to throw to the fundies as they hollow out the country.

    And, yes, they’re sending him there to protect Trump from facing criminal penalties. He’s already said that he now thinks that a president can’t be criminally prosecuted while in office, or after being removed from office, which is quite a 180 from his Clinton-persecuting days.

  133. 133.

    Aleta

    October 3, 2018 at 11:31 pm

    how conservative men treat assaults on women:
    a- you shouldn’t feel that way
    b-if you feel that way, you should stay quiet about it
    c-smile! because you’re bringing me down.

  134. 134.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 11:33 pm

    @lamh36: it s what I had to do in 2016 when half the country, aided by 53% of white women (yeah I’m STILL pissed about that!) Russia and election fuckery when the orange menace was elected POTUS

    this may be the weekend to do it before getting into the midterm GOTV

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    October 3, 2018 at 11:35 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I think it was because the accusers were anonymous, but I can’t get the PDF to load on my iPad.

  136. 136.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:35 pm

    @NotMax:
    I regret nothing

  137. 137.

    Amir Khalid

    October 3, 2018 at 11:38 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Kavanaugh’s accusers have names now. I take it that that doesn’t change anything for the Senator.

  138. 138.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    @James E. Powell

    The point is the Trumparatchik wasn’t about to open up access to them while still breathing.

  139. 139.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    Sigh…I think it’s time I go to bed.

    This is outside of Susan Collins’ office, where cops are not allowing the media to question her
    https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1047512031111340034?s=21

    Capitol Police aren’t allowing staffers, members of the public, or the media to walk along the 4th floor of Dirksen
    https://twitter.com/alanhe/status/1047503846044516353?s=21

  140. 140.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Well, states could fill in some blanks, but if states could do it all we wouldn’t have beaten them in the civil war and we would have stuck with the conservative system of government all along. Seriously, though, we really do need federal laws. California can regulate air quality all they want- the other 49’s air will be wafting over there. You’ve been able to watch this in real time with a real issue- conservatives gutted federal voter protections and 25 states immediately raced to the bottom. I tihnk even they were shocked how fast it collapsed. Literally exactly what Justice Roberts said wouldn’t happen, happened. And quickly! They couldn’t wait to suppress black voters. They were so cocky about it North Carolina laid it out in the legislative record.

    Kavanaugh will get voting rights cases and now that he’s announced to the country that he hates The Left (millions and millions of ordinary citizens) his decisions will be perceived as those of a political operative. He can’t put that genie back in the bottle. He told us what he is.

  141. 141.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 3, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @Ruckus:

    He makes shitgibbon look like a fat orange bag of lawn fertilizer.

    That’s a pretty low bar.

  142. 142.

    tobie

    October 3, 2018 at 11:41 pm

    One of the many things I’ve found shocking in the whole Kavanaugh investigation is that the FBI acted like they could only interview the people the White House identified. That is so messed up. I understand the White House has the right to delineate what matters should be investigated but it would seem to be the prerogative of the FBI to determine how the investigation should be conducted. That Wray and Rosenstein would agree to such an arrangement says a lot about them and none of it is good.

  143. 143.

    Mnemosyne

    October 3, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @Aleta:

    Don’t forget:

    d-you must have done something to make him do that.

  144. 144.

    John Revolta

    October 3, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @Mnemosyne: It took him three years to be approved by the Bush Admin. for his current gig at CoA, supposedly due to concerns about his “partisanship”.

  145. 145.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 3, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @smintheus: Nixon still had to release his returns, they’re not a matter of public record.

  146. 146.

    oldgold

    October 3, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    No, I was agreeing with Adam Silverman’s statement at comment #11 that the state and federal tax authorities could not proceed against Trump for tax fraud crimes.

    I have some experience with these statute of limitations and the civil clawback opportunities.

  147. 147.

    B.B.A.

    October 3, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: When Arkansas ignored Brown v. Board, Eisenhower sent in the military to enforce desegregation.

    This is historical fact. I am not opining on the likelihood of anything like this happening in the future.

  148. 148.

    M. Bouffant

    October 3, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @James E Powell: Saw Sally Field’s big-screen debut, The Way Weston the telly a few days ago. I’ll just say she doesn’t play a nun.

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @Kay:
    Exactly.
    And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Remember 2/3 is hidden below the surface.
    Does anyone in class know why most people pay their taxes? Because the cost of an audit and the penalty and interest is terrifying, if the one thing they found was all you were doing. The rich are not doing one thing. They are doing lots of things, so even if they lose what we’d consider to be the debt of a small third world country, they have more than enough to cover it. And their other schemes and avoidance get through and bam, more money.
    When I say the penalty, normally it’s 20% and the interest is on top of that and what you owe. So, you owe $10,000. That’s $12,000 that you now owe. And interest on all of it since the original due date of the return. Likely to run around $15,000. Or more, depending on how old that return is. If it was 6 yrs ago……..

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    October 3, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Dick Durbin, who released the statement, is a Democrat, so he’s already a no vote. Ben Sasse is a Republican, so he would vote yea even if there were photos documenting the attack.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I wonder if it’s finally the end for Susan Collins. She’s been cynically using her pro-choice voters for her whole career, with this ridiculous dance.

    It’s kind of delicious that her own Party finally called her bluff. This will be the third time since Trump was elected she’s announced she’s “confident” she secured some assurance and they screwed her. Her problem isn’t Democrats. Her problem is Republicans keep showing her up to be a fraud.

  152. 152.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid: @Mnemosyne: The first four background checks were for staff positions. The first for one with Independent Counsel Ken Starr’s investigation, the next three for positions in the Bush 43 administration. These were all for high level clearances, not a background check for nomination to a Federal court, which is what the fifth and sixth background investigations were for. In each of these cases the final decision on awarding the clearance and granting access rests with the principle. In the first one of these that was Ken Starr. In the next three it was President Bush’s (43) Chief of Staff, who I think was Andy Card for all of them. And that’s provided that on the total person evaluation methodology that these concerns had to be brought to them for a final yeah or nay. Otherwise the decision rested with the adjudicator and the Special Security Officer. If the concerns/issues were something that led the Special Security Officer, based on the adjudicator’s report, to want to deny access, then and only then would it have gone to the principal – Starr or Card. They they would weigh in.

  153. 153.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    What about Supreme is it you don’t capiche?

  154. 154.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:48 pm

    @Kay:
    What I’m trying to get at is that if we’re the majority of the population, then the retrograde decisions made by the SC would be seen as illegitimate and resisted at all levels of society. Not just in California. What could the SC do to combat that?

  155. 155.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @lamh36: Just so no one get’s surprised when they wake up tomorrow. The question will be does McConnell have the votes.

    .@senatemajldr Mitch McConnell has filed cloture on the Brett Kavanaugh nomination to the Supreme Court — expect cloture vote Friday and final vote on confirmation Saturday

    — Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) October 4, 2018

  156. 156.

    Ruckus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    That’s a far, far higher bar than the shitgibbon’s normal level. A putrid bag of lawn manure still has usefulness. You can’t name me one thing useful about the shitgibbon. Go ahead, give it a shot. You’ll lose.

  157. 157.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 11:50 pm

    @Kay:

    They may as well take their case to Karl Rove.

    As evil as Rove is, I think he’s still more rational than Kavanaugh, and that a lot of his fuckery is more a case of gamesmanship than irrational hatred for (among others) the Clintons. I also don’t get the sense-of-entitlement vibe from Rove. But maybe I’m misreading things.

  158. 158.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @B.B.A.:
    And if the majority of the population attempted to resist the military sent in to enforce the “Supreme” Court’s “legal” rulings? And the resulting international reaction?

  159. 159.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 3, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    What could the SC do to combat that?

    Well, first they call up the marshal…

  160. 160.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Don’t the Senate rules (oh, those pesky old things) stipulate 30 hours of debate after a cloture vote?

  161. 161.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 3, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: meanwhile, Jane Mayer and Ronan Farrow have asked the questions McConnell and trump were terrified the FBI might ask

    Angela Walker, who was in Dolphin’s class at Stone Ridge, also submitted a declaration to the F.B.I. Though she did not mention Dolphin in the declaration, Walker voiced support for her in a phone interview. “It’s really horrifying what they did to her,” Walker said, “it’s a terrible betrayal.” She noted, too, that the depiction of Dolphin reported in the classmate’s statement “is not the Renate that I knew—it’s not possible.” Walker’s declaration described attending a large house party with Georgetown Prep boys, where, she wrote, “A friend from Prep warned me not to go upstairs, where the bedrooms were, cautioning me that it could be dangerous.”

    link function is borked for me again
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/will-the-fbi-ignore-testimonies-from-kavanaughs-former-classmates

  162. 162.

    lamh36

    October 3, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    Confirmed or not…this isn’t over

    New from @JaneMayerNYer @ronanfarrow. Potential witnesses, unable to get in touch with agents, were resorting to sending their statements, unsolicited, to the FBI and senators.

    Kenneth Appold, a former suitemate of Kavanaugh’s and now a professor at Princeton Theological Seminary, recalled hearing abt what happened to Ramirez. He later told grad-school roommate, Michael Wetstone, who confirmed Appold’s account.

    Former Georgetown Prep classmate submitted statement to the F.B.I. that challenged, among other aspects, Kavanaugh’s testimony on “Renate Alumnius.” newyorker.com/news/news-desk…

    https://twitter.com/michaelluo/status/1047685723627970561?s=21

  163. 163.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    What could the SC do to combat that?

    Last time SC shelled Fort Sumter.

  164. 164.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 3, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: dude, take it to r/alternativehistory

  165. 165.

    SFAW

    October 3, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Don’t be an asshole. How is what you’re suggesting any different from “nullification,” philosophically.

  166. 166.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: As I’ve explained to a few folks with arsenals and anti-government sentiment a few times: if the government turns on the citizenry and unleashes the military and the military complies (which I’m not sure they would, but that’s another story), they’re not coming for you and your guns in basic combat uniforms with sidearms. They’re coming with strike fighters and tanks and strykers and SAWS and 50 Cals.

  167. 167.

    smintheus

    October 3, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: What the reporter discovered was not based upon Nixon’s released returns. He discovered that Nixon did not file any tax returns during those years.

  168. 168.

    tobie

    October 3, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @lamh36: Thanks for posting these excerpts. It’s a reminder not to give up hope and to keep on fighting.

  169. 169.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 3, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Yeah, but the guys doing the shelling the last time were more numerous and actually had legitimacy. That’s not the case this time around.

  170. 170.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 3, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    @NotMax: Yep, if they hold the cloture vote Friday by noon, then they’ll be able to do the actual vote sometime on Saturday afternoon.

  171. 171.

    Kay

    October 3, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    More
    ? Ben Sasse just now from the Senate floor said he urged Trump to nominate someone different—a woman whom he doesn’t name—instead of Kavanaugh.

    They can’t even capitulate with dignity. They’re going to sternly lecture us on their moral superiority WHILE they install the judge their donors told them they’re getting.

    They still don’t get it. It isn’t “nominate a woman”- that’s actually THEIR fucked up, twisted idea – that women are tokens . They still think X number of women allowed in and then used to prove their bona fides is what this is ABOUT.

  172. 172.

    NotMax

    October 3, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    One can play what if ’til the cows come home.

    IRL, that would something called “rebellion.” Had a little fracas over that some time back; I think Ken Burns might have alluded to it.

  173. 173.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:00 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep, I read that about 30 minutes ago. Mayer and Farrow are on this story and they won’t get off until there is nothing left to report. As I’ve written repeatedly, this isn’t going away regardless of how the Senate votes on Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination.

  174. 174.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    October 4, 2018 at 12:01 am

    @Mnemosyne: href=”#comment-7043062″>Amir Khalid: no the two “confessors to the crime” were not anonymous. Not identified by the majority to the minority. The claims were fairly obviously fake, but disclosed to discredit Ford. https://www.durbin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Letter%20to%20Chairman%20Grassley%20-%20October%203,%202018.pdf

  175. 175.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:01 am

    @SFAW:
    The difference, is that the current GOP government is not legitimately elected (gerrymandering, voter suppression, foreign interference, etc). Therefore, the judges they appoint and the opinions they author are being forced upon the majority. They are not legitimate either

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:01 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: The South Carolina state militia did not have legitimacy and were not a majority.

  177. 177.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:02 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    If they stay in uninterrupted session? 30 hours of debate is not equivalent to 30 hours according to the clock, AFAIK.

  178. 178.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @Kay: He’s referring to Amy Coney Barrett. The Republican strategic thinking is that because she’s a woman and a Catholic, even though she’s been involved in that weird family ministry, her nomination would have made it impossible for Democrats to challenge her without looking anti-woman and anti-Catholic.

  179. 179.

    Kay

    October 4, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @Ruckus:

    I just think they’re playing with fire. There’s only so long that people are going to comply with rules, if rules don’t apply to powerful people.

    They think Kavanaugh lying under oath is an exception, and it IS in my experience, most people don’t lie under oath. Which is lucky because tens of thousands of people testify every day and we don’t have enough jails to hold them all, not to mention that we actually have to find things out and they have to tell us, because they were there.

    They better hope that doesn’t flip, and most people don’t start deciding that if the rules don’t apply to the Kavanaughs and the Trumps of this world, well, they just won’t follow them either. Because that could absolutely happen. Then it won’t be so great and bold to flout the rules- it’ll just be chaos.

  180. 180.

    oldgold

    October 4, 2018 at 12:04 am

    Late this evening the New Yorker ( Mayer and Farrow) filed an article including this.

    Several former Yale students who claim to have information regarding the alleged incident with Ramirez or about Kavanaugh’s behavior at Yale said that they had not been contacted by the F.B.I. Kenneth G. Appold was a suitemate of Kavanaugh’s at the time of the alleged incident. He had previously spoken to The New Yorker about Ramirez on condition of anonymity, but he said that he is now willing to be identified because he believes that the F.B.I. must thoroughly investigate her allegation. Appold, who is the James Hastings Nichols Professor of Reformation History at Princeton Theological Seminary, said that he first heard about the alleged incident involving Kavanaugh and Ramirez either the night it occurred or a day or two later. Appold said that he was “one-hundred-per-cent certain” that he was told that Kavanaugh was the male student who exposed himself to Ramirez. He said that he never discussed the allegation with Ramirez, whom he said he barely knew in college. But he recalled details—which, he said, an eyewitness described to him at the time—that match Ramirez’s memory of what happened. “I can corroborate Debbie’s account,” he said in an interview. “I believe her, because it matches the same story I heard thirty-five years ago, although the two of us have never talked.”

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/will-the-fbi-ignore-testimonies-from-kavanaughs-former-classmates/amp?__twitter_impression=true

  181. 181.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Isn’t the All-Volunteer Force made up of a lot of reactionary “conservatives” anyway? I don’t find it much of stretch that some US troops would shoot protesters in American cities.

  182. 182.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @NotMax: McConnell will have a GOP senator in the chamber from the time the clock starts to when the vote is taken. So most likely several will do pro-forma night shifts.

  183. 183.

    The Dangerman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:05 am

    Yep, if they hold the cloture vote Friday by noon, then they’ll be able to do the actual vote sometime on Saturday afternoon.

    I’m a little juiced tonight (Vegas trip got ruined by a waterpump a little south of Baker), so this may be stupid, but if it passes cloture, the final vote is a formality, right?

    Also, I just signed up to volunteer for Janz in Visalia. If I have a car by the weekend. Right now, I’m stuck in Barstow. BARSTOW! I think there is one good restaurant in town. Second best restaurant may be McDonalds.

  184. 184.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:05 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:
    “They got the guns, but we got the numbers.” Jim Morrison was a musical legend, but no expert on these things. Legitimacy is not what wins shooting matches. Winning a shooting match requires superior firepower, which is what Federal troops have compared to citizen militias, and which tends to outweigh numerical superiority.

  185. 185.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:05 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: No. Is the All Volunteer Force more conservative in it’s totality than the rest of the country? Yes. Is it reactionary? No. Except for significant parts of the USAF officer cohort that have been heavily evangelized.

  186. 186.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:06 am

    @The Dangerman: Not necessarily. There is no requirement that one must vote the same at the cloture vote and the final vote.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    October 4, 2018 at 12:06 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    The difference, is that the current GOP government is not legitimately elected (gerrymandering, voter suppression, foreign interference, etc). Therefore, the judges they appoint and the opinions they author are being forced upon the majority. They are not legitimate either

    Just fucking stop already. I want that shit, I’ll go read the RedStoat archives.

  188. 188.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    In which case Dems need to go all in on quorum calls. As many times as possible.

  189. 189.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S):

    I’m talking about the previous background checks that R’s have been trying to claim were clean when they were not. The same allegations about drinking and sexual assault showed up but were dismissed as irrelevant.

    The fake confessions are something different.

  190. 190.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 4, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @SFAW: you leave the noble stoat out of this!

  191. 191.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:10 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Whoops. I totally didn’t remember my ACW history. What I meant is that the Union was the actual legitimate government, as it constituted the majority of the country population-wise and the rebelling states were an authoritarian minority who didn’t want to respect a (relatively) free and fair election because they feared what it could mean for their futures as slavers.

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @NotMax: That will only matter for the cloture vote and final vote. And having one Democrat there to make the quorum call will provide enough with all the GOP senators for a quorum.

  193. 193.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:12 am

    @SFAW:
    What’s wrong with anything I said?

  194. 194.

    The Dangerman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:14 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    T

    here is no requirement that one must vote the same at the cloture vote and the final vote.

    True, but tactically, if you wanted to kill the nomination, you want to kill it at cloture. That way, you didn’t vote against Kavanaugh; you just voted for more debate. If they can’t get cloture, eventually the nomination gets withdrawn, no?

    Pardon my while I pour another (Barstow has one real restaurant, but lotsa liquor stores).

  195. 195.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 4, 2018 at 12:15 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: goku.

  196. 196.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:16 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Was working off your postulation of a lone senator there to hold a pro forma session. Dragging 50 more Rs in at 3 in the morning to assemble a quorum is going to take a lot of time (time which, I believe, is off the debate clock).

  197. 197.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:16 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yep. The genie is put of the bottle and people know to go to Mayer and Farrow if they have a #metoo story they think is being ignored.

    As I keep saying, I think it’s only a matter of time before a woman with impeccable conservative credentials steps forward to say Kavanaugh attacked her while he was working as a Republican apparatchik, but she (or they) may only be pissed off enough to do it if he gets on the court. Tick -tock, motherfuckers!

  198. 198.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:18 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    Who’s to say citizens/state governments wouldn’t be able to get their hands on military-grade equipment?

    Anyway, I think that if such an authoritarian government were to come to power, one of the few ways to dislodge it would be to carry out constant terrorists attacks against it, including critical state infrastructure, as well as assassinations.

  199. 199.

    lamh36

    October 4, 2018 at 12:19 am

    Ugh….there you have it…

    Good night folks! gonna be a long weekend!

    ‪White House finds no corroboration of sexual Misconduct allegations against Kavanaugh in FBI Report https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-finds-no-corroboration-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-against-kavanaugh-in-fbi-report-1538625927 via @WSJ‬

  200. 200.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:19 am

    @The Dangerman: The nomination only gets withdrawn when either Kavanaugh removes himself from consideration or the President pulls the nomination. If the cloture vote fails, Kavanaugh is still the nominee. If he passes the cloture vote and the final vote fails, Kavanaugh is still the nominee. And unless either Kavanaugh removes himself from consideration or the President pulls the nomination, then he will remain the nominee until the next Congress is sworn in during the first week of January 2019.

  201. 201.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:20 am

    @NotMax

    We don’t seem to have a Robert Byrd anymore, someone who can play the Senate rules like a Stradivarius.

  202. 202.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:20 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    In one of my favorite books, the heroine has an ill-tempered pet ermine. At one point, they think they’re going to have to get into a brawl, and the cry goes up, Release the ermine!

  203. 203.

    lamh36

    October 4, 2018 at 12:21 am

    @lamh36: We’ll see if any of the actual reports is true

  204. 204.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:21 am

    @NotMax: There’s no filibuster for this confirmation, so the 30 hours is purely ceremonial. There is no requirement for the Senate to be doing anything while the clock runs.

  205. 205.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:21 am

    @Major Major Major Major:
    If they’re not legitimately elected they should not be obeyed and should be resisted. To do otherwise would to submit to slavery

  206. 206.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:24 am

    @lamh36:

    Let’s face it, the White House was never going to say anything else. They’re dug in now and can’t back down.

  207. 207.

    frosty

    October 4, 2018 at 12:24 am

    @lamh36: You’re on fire with the GIFs tonte. Love ’em!

  208. 208.

    frosty

    October 4, 2018 at 12:25 am

    ETA: tonite. Or tonight, if you will. I seem to have left my edit button somewhere…

  209. 209.

    Yutsano

    October 4, 2018 at 12:25 am

    @The Dangerman: I thought Barstow had a Popeye’s. Also: my sympathies.

  210. 210.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:25 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    the current GOP government is not legitimately elected

    The people in charge of determining who won the elections in 2016 decided the the current GOP government’s election win was legitimate. What is your definition of legitimate?

  211. 211.

    The Dangerman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:26 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The nomination only gets withdrawn when either Kavanaugh removes himself from consideration or the President pulls the nomination. If the cloture vote fails, Kavanaugh is still the nominee.

    Again, true, but if it fails, cloture, it’s over. If it passes cloture and fails on the final, it’s over. In either case, Trump yanks his nomination before the day is out.

  212. 212.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:26 am

    I’m going to rub doggie bellies. You all do whatever it is you’re doing…

  213. 213.

    Mike in DC

    October 4, 2018 at 12:27 am

    The smart thing to do is collect statements from the witnesses not interviewed and read them into the record during the 30 hour period. Or news articles containing their accounts.
    Kavanaugh is going to be the Supreme Court’s “NO RAGERTS” tattoo.

  214. 214.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @Adam L. Silverman
    It’s not ceremonial, it’s a time frame mandated by the current rules. Was under the (mistaken?) impression that a quorum call stopped all current business, for all intents and purposes putting the clock on hold. Parliamentarian would have to rule on that, I guess.

    There’s no filibuster for this confirmation

    Harry Reid.

    “Seemed like a good idea at the time.”

  215. 215.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @The Dangerman: I don’t think so. I think he keeps the nomination through the midterms in an attempt to close the voter intensity gap. Which is why I think McConnell is going to hold a vote even if he doesn’t have the votes. I think that’s their fall back strategy.

  216. 216.

    Roger Moore

    October 4, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @Kay:

    They see a BIG payoff or they wouldn’t be going to the mat for this asshole when they could get someone identical but with a lot less baggage.

    I’m not convinced. I’m sure they can find plenty of other Federalist Society judges who would be perfectly happy to rule exactly the same way as Kavanaugh. My gut feeling is that the real fight is to protect the culture of impunity. Whatever else he is, Kavanaugh is a born and raised member of the MOTU club. For him to suffer consequences for his past misdeeds implies that any other member of the MOTU club could also suffer consequences, and that cannot be allowed under any circumstances. This is now a matter of principle, and they can’t back down no matter what.

  217. 217.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 4, 2018 at 12:29 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: how’s that scene coming?

  218. 218.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:29 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Who’s to say citizens/state governments wouldn’t be able to get their hands on military-grade equipment?

    Is it realistic to expect that citizens/state governments will manage to steal that much federal property?

  219. 219.

    The Dangerman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:30 am

    @Yutsano:

    I thought Barstow had a Popeye’s.

    Oooo, good call; right across street from McDonalds.

    If I could make it to the Outlets, there’s a Tommy’s down there but that’s a helluva walk (Tommy’s, I think, adds crack to their chili burgers; they are addictive as hell).

  220. 220.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:30 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    Funny, aren’t those same people Republicans themselves?

    My definition of legitimate doesn’t include gerrymandering or voter suppression tactics. It also doesn’t include brazenly ignoring the will of the majority.

  221. 221.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:31 am

    @NotMax: Reid did the right thing. As soon as there was a GOP president and a GOP majority Senate and the Democratic minority tried to filibuster, McConnell was going to get rid of the filibuster. Which is exactly what he did for the Gorsuch nomination. Better that Reid did it and was able to move as many of Obama’s nominees as possible onto the Federal courts. Would’ve been even better if he and Leahy had also gotten rid of the blue slip process recognizing that McConnell was weaponizing it while in the minority and would do away with it as soon as he came back into power, which he also did.

  222. 222.

    The Dangerman

    October 4, 2018 at 12:33 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think he keeps the nomination through the midterms in an attempt to close the voter intensity gap.

    OK, that makes sense.

  223. 223.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:36 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    The view from the ledge must be scintillating as you are so determined to remain perched on it.

    Really, you’re gallumphing into pieworthy territory tonight.

  224. 224.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:36 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Funny, aren’t those same people Republicans themselves?

    They’re Republicans who were themselves elected or appointed legitimately, i.e. in accordance with the law. I ask again, what is your definition of legitimate?

  225. 225.

    tobie

    October 4, 2018 at 12:39 am

    @lamh36: So “White House finds” means “Don McGahn, who engineered this whole process with the help of his Federalist buddy Chris Wray, finds.” Trump doesn’t read and is likely a functional illiterate, so any statement from the White House is coming from the cabal that pulls the strings there.

    @Roger Moore: I like your theory but I’m too tired to look up what “MOTU club” means. Can you explain?

    @Mike in DC: Maybe CNN can do wall-to-wall coverage of all the witnesses the FBI ignored over the next two days.

  226. 226.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:40 am

    @Roger Moore:

    My gut feeling is that the real fight is to protect the culture of impunity.

    I think you’re right, and I think that’s also why we’re seeing a surge in Republican voter enthusiasm, i.e. white men. They’re upset that the bitches are going to take away their rape privileges.

    I also suspect that at least some conservative women who have been assaulted are blaming the Democrats for the stress and flashbacks they’ve been dealing with these past couple of weeks. After all, if Christine Blasey Ford and the Democrats hadn’t dug up all of this old history and put it into the public record, they wouldn’t have to think about their own assaults and could have continued to pretend they weren’t bothered by them.

  227. 227.

    Roger Moore

    October 4, 2018 at 12:40 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:
    The question is what California could do to resist. Suppose the Court overturns Roe v. Wade. California can “resist” by enforcing our current constitutional provision protecting abortion, but that’s about it. We can’t do anything to prevent Kansas and Alabama from making abortion illegal.

  228. 228.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:41 am

    @NotMax:
    Look, I still think this can be turned around at the ballot box. But if the right wing rigs the game so much in their favor and our society begins to resemble other nations with authoritarian governments, what will you do?

  229. 229.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 12:42 am

    @tobie:

    MOTU = Masters Of The Universe, aka privileged rich white guys.

  230. 230.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:43 am

    @Amir Khalid

    Y’know, have been meaning to inquire if the guitar has turned out to be at all therapeutic for the finger?

  231. 231.

    Mart

    October 4, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Which one:

  232. 232.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @tobie:
    MOTU club = masters of the universe club

  233. 233.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:45 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    Gerrymandered districts are not conducive to free and fair elections. And the “law” isn’t always right or fair.

  234. 234.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:46 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    That’s an entirely different path of discussion than we were engaging in above.

    Meanwhile, aren’t there exams to be studied for? (/former one-time teacher)

  235. 235.

    gene108

    October 4, 2018 at 12:50 am

    @Kay:

    wealthy and powerful people, because if they;re scofflaws then ordinary people will stop paying taxes, too. This thing runs on consent. They’re aren’t enough regulators to go after every tax cheat if ordinary people all start behaving like decadent and corrupt Trump family members.

    Problem it is a lot harder for W2 earners to cheat on their taxes. Some taxes are taken out per paycheck. And the options left to a W2 earner to dodge taxes are very limited compared to what businesses can do and rich people, with a lot of investments.

    It would be really hard for the average W2 earner to cheat substantially on taxes. The system is rigged to keep the proles in line.

  236. 236.

    sukabi

    October 4, 2018 at 12:51 am

    @NotMax: one of his siblings or other family member’s accountant is feeling the squeeze from the feds and is looking for a deal? The tax info the NYT got was a “hey, I do have some info you’d find helpful”….

    Purely speculation, but someone dropped a box of tax info on the times.

  237. 237.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:52 am

    @gene108:
    Is Greece tax system substantially different?

  238. 238.

    Roger Moore

    October 4, 2018 at 12:53 am

    @NotMax:

    Harry Reid.

    “Seemed like a good idea at the time.”

    Get your facts straight. Harry Reid specifically preserved the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations; it was only removed during the confirmation fight over Gorsuch. And removing it for the rest of judicial nominations was a good idea. It let Obama fill a lot of judicial positions that otherwise would have been filibustered. Unless you think McConnell would have left the judicial filibuster alone- a dubious position given his willingness to nuke it for the Supreme Court- that would have given Trump even more positions to fill.

  239. 239.

    smike

    October 4, 2018 at 12:54 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: @Amir Khalid:
    You’re not going to defeat the US military with a bunch of stolen munitions and a group of raggedy-assed troops. The US military is equipped with lots of bodies that are fully trained and ready to go, and they ain’t gonna run out of bullets. They are also not afraid to bomb the shit out of civilian populations (I think I read something about that somewhere).

  240. 240.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 12:56 am

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Haven’t started. Haven’t had the time. I won’t have the time till early December

  241. 241.

    tobie

    October 4, 2018 at 12:56 am

    @Mnemosyne: @Amir Khalid: Thanks, folks. I should have known this. You’re better than any urban dictionary.

  242. 242.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 12:57 am

    @NotMax:
    Yes they have, all three of them. The Girl (Squier Affinity Telecaster), Sister (Squier California Stratocaster), and Lady (Epiphone Les Paul Studio). My left pinky is stronger now than I thought it could be. Thanks for asking.

  243. 243.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 4, 2018 at 12:57 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I bet you could spare a half hour a day!

  244. 244.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 12:58 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Elections within gerrymandered districts can be held freely and fairly. Impact is on representation, not on the quality or lack thereof of an election. Proposing that because a district is gerrymandered ipso facto means the process of an election is tainted does not compute.

    Also too, a state cannot be gerrymandered; neither senators nor a president is elected by district.

  245. 245.

    Roger Moore

    October 4, 2018 at 1:00 am

    @tobie:

    I like your theory but I’m too tired to look up what “MOTU club” means. Can you explain?

    MOTU is Master Of The Universe. Kavanaugh is a member of the hereditary elite, and the rest of the hereditary elite (and the suck-ups who believe they can join by being loyal supporters) aren’t willing to accept that the rules for little people also apply to them.

  246. 246.

    tobie

    October 4, 2018 at 1:02 am

    @gene108:

    The system is rigged to keep the proles in line

    but flexible enough to convince every two-bit small business owner that they are the greatest job creators evah. That’s the base the Republicans have been currying for years. There simply are not enough oligarchs to elect them otherwise. Remember their outrage over Obama’s perhaps indelicate remark, “You didn’t build this.” Every one of these largely uneducated and unskilled small business bastards is convinced that they’ve never gotten a dime of help from anyone. They’re the group I loathe the most.

  247. 247.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 1:06 am

    @Major Major Major Major

    Certainly the time spent playing Ifstory Channel.

    :)

  248. 248.

    Mart

    October 4, 2018 at 1:07 am

    @NotMax:

    Also too,

    The phrase always weakens my knees with thoughts of Sarah Palin, queen of the north woods and hero of the heartland. Also too, just don’t hear near enough about family brawls at the neighborhood party, and out of wedlock baby bumps no more.

  249. 249.

    Cacti

    October 4, 2018 at 1:09 am

    Sarcastic slow clap for the NYT for finally getting around to the reporting they should have been doing in the summer of 2015.

  250. 250.

    PJ

    October 4, 2018 at 1:09 am

    @Roger Moore: This may be a distinction without a difference, as far as your argument goes, but Kavanaugh is not a “Master of the Universe.” He is a servant of the people you call “Masters of the Universe”. He may have grown up rich, but it doesn’t sound like his family was well to do. Otherwise, why would he have decided to become a Republican party hack? If he were wealthy, he could have done anything. Instead, he chose to make himself a tool in service of the people with the real money and power, with the understanding, presumably, that he would be rewarded with a government position, and a judgeship, as he was. If he were really wealthy, and powerful, he wouldn’t have racked up $200K in debt (he would have racked up millions in debt, like Trump). If he were really influential, he would be the person making up the list of prospective Supreme Court justices, not a name on that list. No, he is someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to make the wealthy and powerful more wealthy and powerful, which makes him useful, and gives him power over the rest of us, but the really powerful would not think of him as a peer. They are concerned about protecting him because they need tools like him to do the work and cover for them.

  251. 251.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 4, 2018 at 1:10 am

    @lamh36: There’s SOME wiggle room there – the White House says there’s no corroboration from witnesses, but that doesn’t mean there’s not other corroboration. Doubt it, though.

    Seriously though, we have PUBLIC declarations in support of Ramirez and people who knew about it happening at the time. We have public declarations from those who knew Kavanaugh at the time who say he lied repeatedly (under oath) during his hearing.

    How much does this take?

  252. 252.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 1:12 am

    @smike:

    You’re not going to defeat the US military with a bunch of stolen munitions and a group of raggedy-assed troops.

    I realize it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison, but you might want to ask the Vietnamese, Afghans, and Iraqis about that.

    Also, I do still think that, despite our current political divide, a majority of US troops would refuse to fire on their fellow US citizens inside the US and would probably consider it to be an illegal order even if they were ordered to do so. IIRC, even Kent State was mostly a mistake by panicked and ill-trained National Guardsmen.

  253. 253.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 1:16 am

    @Mart

    ‘Tis a B-J tradition, a note in one of the mystic chords of memory.

    ;)

  254. 254.

    Mnemosyne

    October 4, 2018 at 1:16 am

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    If you reduced the amount of time you spend here, you could carve out half an hour a day. Just sayin’. This place is a time suck.

  255. 255.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 4, 2018 at 1:20 am

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Maybe. I’ll see how it goes.

  256. 256.

    frosty

    October 4, 2018 at 1:42 am

    @gene108:

    The system is rigged to keep the proles in line.

    That’s what I figured out during the Manafort stuff. W2 earners have to fie to get a refund — to get our money back. Business owners, grifters, etc.don’t pay IRS money up front. They skate through a year then try to figure out how to owe IRS nothing. I was wondering how these guys ow the IRS 6 or 7 figures? That’s it — they don’t get docked on every income check

  257. 257.

    Amir Khalid

    October 4, 2018 at 1:44 am

    @Mnemosyne:
    The US military never lost a shooting match in Vietnam, so it says. But it lost the war anyway. The shooting-match part of a war is only one aspect of it; there is always a wider political conflict that drives the whole thing. In both Afghanistan and Vietnam, it seems to me, the US inserted itself into somebody else’s fight, without understanding what was going on, and without a well-thought-out objective: failure was inevitable.

    In dealing with a civilian uprising, the US would have clear military objectives: defeating the fighters (the shooting-match part); and shutting down any organisation(s) providing them with personnel, material and/or financial support. It should have no problem doing that. But I think addressing the politics that led to the uprising would be outside the scope of the armed forces, and would have to be the work of the civilian Federal government

  258. 258.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 4, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @frosty: They have to pay estimated tax or get penalized on their 1040.

  259. 259.

    frosty

    October 4, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @Mnemosyne: @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I didn’t quote this the last time it came up, but I will now. It’s from Robert Heinlein, engraved into my memory. Rules for writers:

    1 You must write.
    2 You must finish what you write.
    3 You must not rewrite except to editorial order.
    4 You must put it on the market and keep it on the market until sold.

    I generally fail at #2, sometimes #4 (academic papers). You appear to be struggling with #1. Other advice (can’t remember the source) “Writing is shooting thoughts on the wing.” Which means get something on paper, it doesn’t matter what. Rework it later, but you need to have something to work with.

  260. 260.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 1:59 am

    @frosty

    They skate through a yea

    Unless things have drastically changed, businesses (above a certain level of income) pay quarterly, reconcile annually and estimate the following year’s taxes.

  261. 261.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 4, 2018 at 2:00 am

    @frosty: What I always think is so funny about those rules is that #3 rather, er, shows in Heinlein’s later writings.

    @NotMax: Well, nobody’s forcing you to pay estimates, though you do have to file them. Of course, nobody’s forcing you to withhold from every paycheck either, right? It all comes down to how much you like paying interest and penalties.

  262. 262.

    NotMax

    October 4, 2018 at 2:11 am

    @frosty

    Amended to reflect discipline, from The Man Who Came to Dinner:

    Work your way through and just write stories.
    Terrible stories, wonderful stories, everything.
    If I could do that, I’d be the happiest guy.
    Why can’t you do it?
    If I were your age, I’d do it like a shot.

  263. 263.

    SFAW

    October 4, 2018 at 9:24 am

    @SFAW:

    Apparently I forgot to include “tearful” re: the anticipated speeches, so the noble Sen. Sasse supplied them during his speech where he said “It’s not that we don’t care about women, but we don’t care about women. I mean, what are they good for, anyway, amirite?”

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