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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Russiagate Open Thread: Peter Smith, “Rob Tyler”, and General Flynn

Russiagate Open Thread: Peter Smith, “Rob Tyler”, and General Flynn

by Anne Laurie|  October 7, 20187:54 pm| 119 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Foreign Affairs, Goddamned Traitors, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Russiagate, "Lock Her Up!!", Let A Thousand Watergates Bloom

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SCOOP: Deceased GOP operative Peter Smith secretly raised $100k from 4 donors in Oct. 2016 as part of a project to obtain Hillary Clinton’s emails, an effort that documents and sources say is being actively probed by Mueller https://t.co/eHvvoYjxjM

— Dustin Volz (@dnvolz) October 7, 2018

Smith, who said he was working on behalf of Michael Flynn, was warned he was likely getting mixed up with Russian hackers in his pursuit of emails, but he continued to pursue them just weeks before the election. https://t.co/eHvvoYjxjM

— Dustin Volz (@dnvolz) October 7, 2018

Clintonphobia must be a helluva drug, because it does not seem these were stupid people — unlike the Putin pawn they helped install in the Oval Office. But it sounds to me like these staunch Republicans knew they were getting played by the GRU and didn’t care, as long as That Woman was properly punished for the crime of being a Democrat, and uppity.

A veteran Republican operative and opposition researcher solicited and raised at least $100,000 from donors as part of an effort to obtain what he believed to be emails stolen from Hillary Clinton, activities that remain of intense interest to federal investigators working for special counsel Robert Mueller’s office and on Capitol Hill.

Peter W. Smith, an Illinois businessman with a long history of involvement in GOP politics, sought and collected the funds from at least four wealthy donors as part of the plan to obtain Mrs. Clinton’s stolen emails from hackers just weeks before election day in 2016, according to people familiar with the matter and documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Mr. Smith’s effort to find what he believed were some 33,000 deleted emails Mrs. Clinton said were personal was first reported by the Journal in a 2017 story, but the extent of his planning went far beyond what was previously known. Mr. Smith died 10 days after describing his efforts to a reporter for the Journal…

Mr. Smith went to extraordinary lengths to ensure the privacy and secrecy of his projects, according to emails and court records reviewed by the Journal and a person familiar with the matter.

One email showed the anti-Clinton funds referenced as donations that were to be sent to a Washington, D.C.-based scholarship fund for Russian students.

[Was one of them named ‘Maria Butina’?]

Mr. Smith often communicated with associates using a Gmail account under the name “Robert Tyler” that both he and several others had access to, according to emails and a person familiar with the matter. He sometimes asked associates to communicate with him by writing a note and saving it the draft folder of the account, according to correspondence reviewed by the Journal.

He also had one phone number that he used for sensitive matters and a commercially available encrypted email account. Hard drives that Mr. Smith’s estate turned over to federal investigators were also encrypted, according to people familiar with the matter.

According to an email in the “Robert Tyler” account reviewed by the Journal, Mr. Smith obtained $100,000 from at least four financiers as well as a $50,000 contribution from Mr. Smith himself. People familiar with Mr. Smith’s financial transactions confirm there were donations…

The activities of Mr. Smith—who died in May 2017 at 81—remain an active area of interest to investigators, according to people familiar with the investigation. An autopsy report said he had killed himself in a Minnesota hotel room.Mr. Smith left behind carefully prepared documents including a statement, which police deemed a suicide note, that read: “NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER,” according to the Chicago Tribune.

In addition to giving hard drives to the House and Senate intelligence committees, which are also investigating election interference by Russia, Mr. Smith’s estate has given documents to Mr. Mueller’s team, people with the matter said. Associates of Mr. Smith have been interviewed by investigators or summoned before a grand jury as recently as this summer, according to documents and people familiar with the matter. BuzzFeed has also reported that Mr. Smith’s bank transfers are under scrutiny…

The focus from investigators on Mr. Smith’s quest to obtain Mrs. Clinton’s emails may be especially significant because Mr. Smith had implied in conversations with people in his circle and others he tried to recruit to help that he was working with retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, at the time a senior adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump, the Journal has reported.

Mr. Flynn pleaded guilty last December to lying to investigators about his calls with Russia’s ambassador a month before Mr. Trump’s inauguration. Prosecutors said at the time Mr. Flynn was cooperating with their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible links After an extended period in limbo, prosecutors said last month they were ready for a federal judge to sentence Mr. Flynn and the court has scheduled proceedings for Dec 18. An attorney for Mr. Flynn didn’t respond to requests for comment…

Retired Wall Street financier Charles Ortel said he spoke with Mr. Smith on the phone in the hours before his death about a new project to brief the Obama Foundation and warn its leaders against the mistakes they believed were made by the Clinton Foundation. According to Mr. Ortel, Mr. Smith sounded excited, and he began brainstorming who to contact and how to proceed.

“I came away from that conversation saying this is great. We’re going to make progress,” said Mr. Ortel, who had previously communicated with Mr. Smith about efforts to obtain Clinton’s emails but was not one of the four people named in the email account as financial contributors. He said he was stunned when news outlets reported that Mr. Smith had taken his life shortly after their conversation.

Wait, what?! Buried lede: “This $100k total with the $50k received from you will allow us to fund the Washington Scholarship Fund for the Russian students for the promised $150K.” https://t.co/6Qw1Y6gEhC

— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) October 7, 2018

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Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    Duane

    October 7, 2018 at 8:03 pm

    It’s a criminal gang from start to finish. Mueller’s operation may need to be permanent.

  2. 2.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Is there any current republican politician or operative of any level who isn’t associated with/in bed with/working with/in debt to, the Russians?

  3. 3.

    encephalopath

    October 7, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    He raised $100K in an effort to “obtain” someone else’s property. That’s an interesting euphemism, like when people enter the liquor store after hours to obtain funding from the office lockbox.

  4. 4.

    JGabriel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:12 pm

    Mr. Smith’s effort to find what he believed were some 33,000 deleted emails Mrs. Clinton said were personal was first reported by the Journal in a 2017 story …

    Wait, didn’t the FBI recover all of those emails using standard file/partition recovery tools?

    And, if so, what the hell were these guys still looking for? What did they think they’d find?

    Also, it seemed obvious, even then, that if the Russians (or anyone) actually had anything from Clinton in the summer of 2016, then they’d have leaked it to Wikileaks at the time, instead of futzing around with John Podesta’s shit.

  5. 5.

    Achrachno

    October 7, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    @Ruckus: There must be one somewhere, but I have no hard evidence of that.

  6. 6.

    JGabriel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Is there any current republican politician or operative of any level who isn’t associated with/in bed with/working with/in debt to, the Russians?

    Nope.

    Thank you for joining on this week’s episode of Simple Answers to Simple Questions. Join us again on SA2SQ next week, same Bat channel, same Bat time!

  7. 7.

    Mike in NC

    October 7, 2018 at 8:18 pm

    GOP: ratfuckers all the way down

  8. 8.

    Baud

    October 7, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    Clintonphobia must be a helluva drug

    That’s why Hillary is my litmus test for determining whether people have a grip on reality.

  9. 9.

    Elizabelle

    October 7, 2018 at 8:22 pm

    They’re so dirty.

    I hope Mueller issues some new indictments before the midterms, if that’s what it takes. It was disastrous to not be warned of Russian interference in 2016, and then James Fucking Drama Queen Comey …

    I hope that Kavanaugh’s appointment can be nullified if it becomes obvious the GOP Senators voted to seat him to protect themselves from criminal prosecution or conviction.

    Kavanaugh is dirty too.

  10. 10.

    JGabriel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    Elizabelle:

    I hope that Kavanaugh’s appointment can be nullified if it becomes obvious the GOP Senators voted to seat him to protect themselves from criminal prosecution or conviction.

    Kavanaugh is dirty too.

    There’s no mechanism to nullify Kavanaugh’s confirmation, per se. But of course he can be impeached and removed from office by Congress.

    ETA: Any 5-4 decisions where Kavanaugh was a deciding vote would still remain on the books until SCOTUS reverses them.

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    @Ruckus: Just those in bed with the Saudis, Emiratis, and Israelis. And those in bed with the PRC. But other than those folks, some of whom are also in bed with the Russians, the answer is no.

  12. 12.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    @Achrachno:
    You’d think the law of averages would tend to be at work here and there’d be a few.
    @JGabriel:
    It was more a rhetorical question, but if I’m on a game show, I want my prize/money.

  13. 13.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    @JGabriel:
    We need to have 66 votes in the Senate for that to happen. My guess is, if we are lucky, we get 53. Enough to slow the bleeding but lose every court case. If you have any way to help any of the remaining Dem candidates running for a Rapeublcan seat please do so. I would love to be proven wrong on this one

    EDIT – to respond to yours. If we promote justices that believe in stare decisis (and it is a bedrock principle of legal scholarship) then it will be more like 2 generations to undo the damage that asshole will sow even if we get him out before 2020

  14. 14.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    What you are saying is that republicans sleep around.
    A lot.
    OK that makes sense that they have to go off shore, who here wants them?

  15. 15.

    oldgold

    October 7, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    There is an interesting interview of Marcy Wheeler in the Columbia Journalism Review.

    It explores how she defines what she does. In addition, the interview offers some interesting insights into Wheeler’s personal involvement with the Mueller investigation.

    The interview ends on a humorous note.

    Wheeler:
    “Poor Paul Manafort is upset that somebody stole his iPods! It’s like, yeah, what, you know? You were witnessed in a meeting with an Apple device.”

    Columbia: “What if there’s nothing on those iPods except the Nickelback discography?”

    Wheeler: “Then he should get the chair.”

    https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/emptywheels-marcy-wheeler-knows-more-than-she-tells-but-she-tells-a-lot.php

  16. 16.

    eemom

    October 7, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    Sorry to interrupt, but can somebody please tell me if there’s a way to stop those godawful ads that keep sliding in on the bottom right of the page?? #cantstanditanymore

  17. 17.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 7, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    @JGabriel: Yes indeed, but crazies gotta crazy.

  18. 18.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @Schlemazel:
    Court cases have to be taken to the USSC. Which means they have to go through all the steps to get there and that mostly takes time. Of course not so much time when the bench warmers on the court get to decide who is president (2000 in case anyone is asking) no matter what the voting says.
    If you look back and search history for the last 60 yrs, it looks pretty obvious that republicans don’t want to live in this country, they want to live in one where only the chosen are cared for, where everyone else is a slave, literally or figuratively and even the chosen have to pay to not be kicked out of the gang. It’s fucking greed. Look around at what the republican party is and greed is it’s only bylaw.

  19. 19.

    CarolDuhart2

    October 7, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    And for all that agitation over the emails…they got no benefit. Clearly there was nothing, or we wouldn’t have Pizzagate and the other fantasies instead. And the irony is the Trumps may end up in jail because of the corruption involved in stealing the election and trying to steal the e-mails.

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    October 7, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    So do we know why Smith committed suicide? I think there were some rumblings about him being in bad health, but if you were in bad health AND realized that you had helped the Russians steal the election ….

  21. 21.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    @eemom:
    adblock plus. Then send JC $20 to make up for it. Its a win-win

  22. 22.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 7, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Maybe some of those who’ve been kissing MBS’s ass (hello, Jared) can find out what actually happened to Jamal Khashoggi.

    Convince me all that ass-kissing didn’t leave the Saudis with the understanding they could do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences.

  23. 23.

    raven

    October 7, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    Whoa, grand slam for the Bravos!

  24. 24.

    Princess

    October 7, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    Oh yeah, he was the one who “committed suicide” right after speaking to the WSJ.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    @JGabriel: There is an ongoing conspiracy theory that the emails that the law firm hired by Secretary Clinton to review all of the emails she sent as Secretary of State through the Clinton’s private server weren’t actually properly accounted for, turned over, and were deleted permanently. What actually happened is that after going through the entire four year period of her emails, the law firm separated those that were solely about work and those that were about work, but also included personal non work related materials from those that contained solely personal materials. The first two were turned over to the Department of State with a full indexed list of the emails. The latter were retained by the law firm on behalf of the Clintons and by Secretary Clinton, though an itemized index of these with a justification for each email being determined to be solely personal and therefore excludable was also turned over to the Department of State. State then submitted the emails they received to a pre-FOIA release classification review, which upclassified a significant number of emails. Some because what they were about, which was not classified when they were sent, had subsequently been deemed to be classified between the time they were sent/received and the time of the classification review. Others were upclassified because the reviewing agency and/or the Intelligence Community interagency input for the classification review determined all or part of them should have been classified at the time they were sent and/or received. This is not surprising, especially when the State Department is involved as the CIA, other intelligence agencies, the FBI, and DOD routinely take the position that State underclassifies their materials. Including email. At the time that all of Secretary Clinton’s work emails were either sent to her or received by her, the classification review determined that only three contained classified information. That this information was at the State Department confidential level, which is basically somewhere between For Official Use Only and Secret, and that there was no way a reasonable receiver of these emails – Secretary Clinton was the recipient, not the sender – would have recognized them being classified given that they had no header or footer markings and no tear lines. Moreover, the (c) for confidential paragraph markings could plausibly be understood to have been copied and pasted from something with an (a), (b), (c), etc itemized list.

    All of the above said, there is a persistent conspiracy theory, that the President still references in his rallies, that Secretary Clinton destroyed these emails by both physically destroying the servers and pouring actual bleach on them. The reality is that when the company the Clinton’s paid to set up and maintain their server, and to upgrade it as necessary, moved from an old/older server to a new one, they’d transfer the information, then run the program called bleach bit, then physically destroy the server for good measure as it had contained material, albeit unclassified, from a former President and Secretary of State. This conspiracy also asserts, without any evidence, that the Clinton server was hacked by a foreign source (both Russia and China have been alleged to be this foreign source), all of the emails stolen, and that they can be purchased for the right price. As far as anyone knows the Clinton server, across multiple generations/iterations, have never been hacked, no emails or other materials were stolen, and despite the assertions, no emails have actually been destroyed.

  26. 26.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    @Ruckus:
    I do not disagree with anything you say. The question is if that day should ever arise when decent people gain control back do we act like these enraged assholes or do we try to return to normal behavior? I expect there will have to be a period of brutal reprisal and violations of decent practices but it had better be short and direct and not serve as precedent for future behavior. We either act like decent people or we become just like the Rapeublicans and that would not end well for the country. We are going to need 40 years to recover, if we ever do.

    Double down on your efforts for Dems and decency because our margin of error is miniscule and getting smaller by the day.

  27. 27.

    The Dangerman

    October 7, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    With my first beer poured (damn Dodgers anyway), is Mueller the reason the Republicans went the seppuku route with Kavanaugh? After all, Trump can claim Executive Privilege, or whatever, on the whole thing, the lawsuits fly, it goes to the USSC, and 5-4, Mueller gets suppressed. Maybe it’s just my beer talking, but my gut is still saying something really big is coming.

  28. 28.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @eemom:
    I use adblock, because it works. I tried others because apple doesn’t like adblock, because it might slow down Safari. It might but then I also don’t have all those fucking ads trying to sell me shit I don’t want or need which is far more annoying than a slightly slower internet. It would be far faster if there were no fucking ads in the first place. And notice that we pay for internet access. That free WiFi you get with your $5 coffee? It ain’t free.

  29. 29.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @eemom: love the subtle Velvet Underground reference!

    Steve back in CT

  30. 30.

    Keith P.

    October 7, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @Princess: I ran over a watermelon with my car, thus determining that Smith was killed by an assassin’s garrote.

  31. 31.

    delk

    October 7, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    Jeez. 81 years old and thinking HE’S going to be the ONE!

  32. 32.

    randy khan

    October 7, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    The question is if that day should ever arise when decent people gain control back do we act like these enraged assholes or do we try to return to normal behavior?

    I say that the right answer is neither. There needs to be an understanding of what the crazies have been doing, an accounting, and an effort to create firewalls to stop them the next time. (Note that I don’t think of any part of this as reprisal; more like balancing the scales.) Until that happens, we can’t go back to normal.

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: As I wrote here in NOV 2017.

    Adam Silverman, an astute analyst, wrote this about the Saudi dictator a year ago; prescient. https://t.co/wMA1XGwJQE

    — Norman Ornstein (@NormOrnstein) October 7, 2018

  34. 34.

    JMG

    October 7, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @Schlemazel: No mery, No return to normalcy. Trails, prison sentences, and referrals to send people to the International Criminal Court in leg irons. There are no rules, just power. When we get the power, forgetting that would be treason.

  35. 35.

    NotMax

    October 7, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Steve in the ATL

    Soak up the chichi.

    :)

  36. 36.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    @randy khan:
    how do you make that a clear policy that cannot be used improperly in the future? _WE_ can agree that the shit currently happening is crazy, illegitimate, bullshit but how do you define that so the Rapeublicans can’t turn it around later and use it as a cudule? Like porn, it may be in the eye of the beholder. I still long for a return to stable decency & not a reign of terror (though in my heart I want the reign of terror with many, many, many beheadings)

  37. 37.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    @Schlemazel:
    I don’t see how you got anything different from what I said and what you said.
    Where did I say that we had to do anything to anyone?
    This is the second time in two days when someone has taken what I believe I’ve said and turned it into something else.
    I simply said that all of the things that republicans wanted BK on the USSC for have to be filled as cases and brought through the system before he gets to make any issue out of them. That takes time. We have a month to the midterms, 2 yrs to the next presidential election. There is a lot of damage that the republican party can do before January 2021 but most of it could be overturned very quickly, legally, and possibly made even better. The next 2 1/2 yrs are critical for our survival as the country that we are supposed to be, but not any where near critical enough to ask for rioting, and overthrowing. And I’ve said that before as well.
    Please reread what I posted.

  38. 38.

    Martin

    October 7, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    We need to have 66 votes in the Senate for that to happen. My guess is, if we are lucky, we get 53. Enough to slow the bleeding but lose every court case. If you have any way to help any of the remaining Dem candidates running for a Rapeublcan seat please do so. I would love to be proven wrong on this one

    You need pay closer attention to how the GOP do this. They run the investigation even without 50 votes. In the course of the investigation, you reveal new information, jump down rabbit holes, etc. Then, even if you don’t have 66 votes at the end, you force your opposition to explain keeping someone on the court who has obviously committed crimes. You may not get Kavanaugh off the court, but you further undermine any case with his name on it. You make it harder for Roberts to associate his name with those cases (because he’s really the swing vote now) and you use that to take down GOP senators.

    The House Judiciary opens the investigation and puts everything on the table. Everyone gets subpoenaed. Anyone found lying gets referred to DOJ and that gets used as ammunition against Trump.

  39. 39.

    RandomMonster

    October 7, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @The Dangerman: This is the theory I believe as well. They could’ve chosen any number of justices who would have sailed through the confirmation process. They chose this damaged goods candidate instead. They’re banking on him protecting Trump and any other dirty Republicans. Where did his massive credit card debt payments come from?

  40. 40.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @JMG:
    So the “reign of terror” mass executions, lining up even those deemed not pure enough? No, if we are to remain a stable nation with any hope of a unified future we have to build a normal society & not a see-saw of revenge. Yes, we need to clean up the shit storm they created but not by acting like they have.

    The ends do not justify the means, the means dictate the end

  41. 41.

    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues

    October 7, 2018 at 9:05 pm

    So given all of this, how can the average person still support an R? I really don’t understand it. Yes yes, I know about party loyalty, identity etc. But it still boggles the mind. The fuck is wrong with these people?

    I’m reminded of that post on the internets a long long time ago, about the crazies constituting 1/3 of the population. I think it was by John Rogers, and he pointed out that this number I surprisingly constant: it was the % of folks who supported Alan Keyes in his senatorial campaign against Obama, and is the same number who supported Cheney during the Libby treason thing.

  42. 42.

    Puddinhead

    October 7, 2018 at 9:05 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: They never say what is purported to be in those emails. What do they think is contained in the 33000 emails and what would be revealed should they be made public?

  43. 43.

    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues

    October 7, 2018 at 9:07 pm

    @Puddinhead: well, Risotto recipes obviously. Those things are gold, Jerry, gold.

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @Puddinhead: Some sort of conspiracy involving Hillary Clinton and Deity knows what. These people are, to be blunt, bug fuck nuts.

  45. 45.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues: 27%

  46. 46.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @Martin:
    OK, lets pretend Kavanaugh’s opinions are undermined. They are still the ruling of the USSC and will be even if we can impeach and convict him. It takes 66 votes to convict.

    Anyone found lying gets referred to DOJ and that gets used as ammunition against Trump.

    And it still takes 66 votes to convict an impeached President. Meanwhile the USSC rules that Dump can’t be held accountable. 5-4 ruling with Justice Rapey McRapejustice writing the majority opinion.

  47. 47.

    tobie

    October 7, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Smith’s suicide always struck me as on a par with that Russian dude who apparently beat himself to death in a DC hotel. The latter ‘suicide’ occurred while Obama was still President and, if I recall, some FBI officials complained of being asked to cover up the crime.

  48. 48.

    maralagoscrewyourself

    October 7, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    We need better messaging.

    From now on whenever Ghouliani or any other wingnut starts yammering about George Soros let’s do a fact check. Soros has given the D’s 13 million in 2018. Clown-haired Shelly Adelson, on the other hand, has given the R’s 55 million in 2018.

    Why is our Jew different than their Jew? (You can use the term “globalist” instead of “Jew” if it seems more apt.)

    Here’s a link citing their respective donations because I understand sourcing is a hot topic today:

    https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?disp=D

  49. 49.

    The Midnight Lurker

    October 7, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    is Mueller the reason the Republicans went the seppuku route with Kavanaugh? After all, Trump can claim Executive Privilege, or whatever, on the whole thing, the lawsuits fly, it goes to the USSC, and 5-4, Mueller gets suppressed.

    I think you have hit the nail on the head, sir. Kavanaugh was installed to make sure the guilty get away with it.

  50. 50.

    Emma

    October 7, 2018 at 9:17 pm

    @Schlemazel: Mostly I agree with you. BUT… if we let them get away with this AGAIN we’ll have Gilead for our descendants. No matter what well-intentioned teachers and psychologists say, bullies only understand superior force.

  51. 51.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 9:19 pm

    @RandomMonster:

    Where did his massive credit card debt payments come from?

    Traitor Turtle? Who then told KavanUGGH to send some money to Quisling Collins, to ensure her vote?

    Nah, just kidding, Collins was never going to vote against him. Hell, she’d find some “reasonable” excuse why Eichmann or Heydrich really were just victims of spurned Hitlerjugend, and that it was only 5.5 million, not 6 million, etc.

    And the sad part is: six weeks ago, most/all of you woulda said “Don’t be a fucking asshole. She ain’t like that.” And now you’re thinking “Well, he’s a little over the top on that, but …”

    [PS: I realize that there’s probably a goodly number of y’all who think “Don’t be a fucking asshole” about me anyway. No problem.]

  52. 52.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    Look, I understand I am a little black ray of darkshine on this parade but my point is that there is no magical solution to the current situation. We ALL need to work MUCH harder to elect Democrats, even shitty Ds like Manchin if that is what it takes. Once we have done that it it NOT going to be over, we need to fight on after that even harder. It did not solve Boy Blunder to elect Obama. He was not the magic negro that was going to save us all. He tried to tell us that but too many ignored him in 2010 and that was the election that laid the foundation for everything we are doing today. More than 200 even, 2010 was the point of no return.

    So fight, donate, volunteer, tolerate Joe “inflamed asshole” Manchin (for the moment) ad fight harder every election. The damage done took more than 40 years, starting really with St. Reagan, it will take at least that long to undo & we have not even started yet. The fight will go on long after I am dead – I do not expect to see recovery in my lifetime – but I will fight on because there is no other alternative. I will not just lay down and take it

  53. 53.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 9:21 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    I’m still hoping for a Truth and Retribution Commission, populated with zero wingnut/Rethugs

  54. 54.

    Baud

    October 7, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    @Schlemazel: Agree completely.

  55. 55.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    @Schlemazel: @JMG: I agree with a lot of what JMG is saying, except this part:

    There are no rules, just power.

    If we want a democracy, we need to ensure that our enemy has a way out, that they’re not obliterated. Otherwise, we force them to break *every* norm [and eventually, every law, which is what should REALLY concern us]. Do we really want a hot war? I don’t — even though I live in California and it’d probably be less-bad here than anywhere else. Too many people would die.

    That said, JMG is -right-, that we need to respond strongly. This is an Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma, and we need to respond with tit-for-tat, so they don’t ‘defect’ next time. Otherwise, yeah, we’re setting ourselves and our nation up for Gilead, or a hot war, next time.

    If the Dems retake power, I’m certainly going to be reminding them that they need to smack the GrOPers back just as hard as they were smacked these last …. 20 years. [ok, I’m being generous here — more like 40 years].

  56. 56.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 7, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    @SFAW: No, I think most of believed Collins is spineless and/or cared enough about being seen by media as moderate to be open to persuasion.

    But we were all pretty sure shes a loyal Republican who pretends to extract concessions from Republicans and then votes for them, while she gets actual concessions from dems but won’t vote for D legislation.

    But it was worth pressuring her, just in case. Sometimes she’s slightly less awful.

  57. 57.

    raven

    October 7, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    taylorswiftI’m writing this post about the upcoming midterm elections on November 6th, in which I’ll be voting in the state of Tennessee. In the past I’ve been reluctant to publicly voice my political opinions, but due to several events in my life and in the world in the past two years, I feel very differently about that now. I always have and always will cast my vote based on which candidate will protect and fight for the human rights I believe we all deserve in this country. I believe in the fight for LGBTQ rights, and that any form of discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender is WRONG. I believe that the systemic racism we still see in this country towards people of color is terrifying, sickening and prevalent.
    I cannot vote for someone who will not be willing to fight for dignity for ALL Americans, no matter their skin color, gender or who they love. Running for Senate in the state of Tennessee is a woman named Marsha Blackburn. As much as I have in the past and would like to continue voting for women in office, I cannot support Marsha Blackburn. Her voting record in Congress appalls and terrifies me. She voted against equal pay for women. She voted against the Reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act, which attempts to protect women from domestic violence, stalking, and date rape. She believes businesses have a right to refuse service to gay couples. She also believes they should not have the right to marry. These are not MY Tennessee values. I will be voting for Phil Bredesen for Senate and Jim Cooper for House of Representatives. Please, please educate yourself on the candidates running in your state and vote based on who most closely represents your values. For a lot of us, we may never find a candidate or party with whom we agree 100% on every issue, but we have to vote anyway.
    So many intelligent, thoughtful, self-possessed people have turned 18 in the past two years and now have the right and privilege to make their vote count. But first you need to register, which is quick and easy to do. October 9th is the LAST DAY to register to vote in the state of TN. Go to vote.org and you can find all the info. Happy Voting!

  58. 58.

    Bill Arnold

    October 7, 2018 at 9:29 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As far as anyone knows the Clinton server, across multiple generations/iterations, have never been hacked, no emails or other materials were stolen, and despite the assertions, no emails have actually been destroyed

    I’ve never confirmed it (haven’t tried) but there was this article 2016/07/07, paragraphs 11-12, that basically nobody noticed.
    Hillary Clinton’s Email Was Probably Hacked, Experts Say (NYTimes, 2016/07/07)

    Mrs. Clinton’s best defense, and one she cannot utter in public, is that whatever the risks of keeping her own email server, that server was certainly no more vulnerable than the State Department’s. Had she held an unclassified account in the State Department’s official system, as the rules required, she certainly would have been hacked.

    Sorry to be a broken record on this, but it grates (a lot) that the NYTimes buried those paragraphs very deep under a misleading-at-best-and -probably-wrong headline.

  59. 59.

    Schlemazel

    October 7, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    on July 2 1863 the only reserve units at Gettysburg were the 282 remaining members of the 1st Minnesota Volunteers. The Confederate forces made a breakthrough at the Union center. 1,600 Alabama infantry were charging and their success would have meant the path to DC was open of Lee and his gray slavers. The 1st MN was ordered into the breach. They fixed bayonets and ran headlong into the oncoming treasonous shits. Outnumbered nearly 6 to 1 they drove the bastards off the field and held the ground until dark. They suffered the highest percentage of casualties of any American unit in any engagement in history. It is not hyperbole to say they saved the Union.

    But the war didn’t end there, didn’t end for nearly another year and they kept fighting and it was never easy and there was no magic moment that turned everything from evil to good. When we overwhelm the bastards this fall it is not over, it is barely even the beginning of the end. we will have to fight twice as hard in 2020 and 2022 just to stay even. SImply because the Rapeublicans will fight twice as hard

  60. 60.

    Ruckus

    October 7, 2018 at 9:32 pm

    @Puddinhead:
    They don’t care what’s in the emails. They never did. They care that they existed and could be used against Hillary Clinton. It didn’t matter that her predecessor had a similar system, it didn’t matter that as best as can be seen, no one has ever hacked her system, but as I understand the secure government system was hacked. They give not one fuck about the emails, they only wanted something they could use against her. If the emails were actually published their story would probably look absolutely asinine.

  61. 61.

    Bill Arnold

    October 7, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    @Bill Arnold:
    Forgot this paragraph from that NYTimes article from 2016 summer:

    Russian intruders were thoroughly inside that system for years — since at least 2007 — before the State Department shut its system down several times to perform a digital exorcism in late 2014, nearly two years after Mrs. Clinton left office.

  62. 62.

    eemom

    October 7, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    @Schlemazel: @Ruckus:

    Thanks!

  63. 63.

    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues

    October 7, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @Schlemazel: you’ve captured the point exactly. This is a long battle, one that cannot be one without fighting ruthlessly, both in the ideological realm as well as the political one.

    I especially like your statement: “will fight on because there is no other alternative. I will not just lay down and take it”. This is bang on.

  64. 64.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 7, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    If we want a democracy, we need to ensure that our enemy has a way out, that they’re not obliterated. Otherwise, we force them to break *every* norm [and eventually, every law, which is what should REALLY concern us]. Do we really want a hot war? I don’t — even though I live in California and it’d probably be less-bad here than anywhere else. Too many people would die.

    I think we may already be past the event horizon there. The Republicans are already in the process of convincing themselves that we are going to kill them all. Dave Neiwert was just talking about it. You see that in Trump’s rallies, in Tucker Carlson’s broadcasts, in Rush Limbaugh shows. Trump just basically declared the Democratic Party lawless and illegitimate. They’ve got white-supremacist groups trying to pick fights so that Dems respond violently.

    I think there is very soon going to be a push to outlaw the Democratic Party and jail or kill its leaders. War is coming whether we like it or not. The question is just how much muscle they can rely on when they try to do it.

  65. 65.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 7, 2018 at 9:38 pm

    @Bill Arnold:
    2007. That tracks with what I read a while ago about Russians being involved in Ron Paul’s 2008 campaign, before the internet was as widespread as it is today and was in 2016.

  66. 66.

    Bill Arnold

    October 7, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    @tobie:

    Smith’s suicide always struck me as on a par with that Russian dude who apparently beat himself to death in a DC hotel.

    Yeah, it did have the smell (if faint and unclear) of wet work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetwork

  67. 67.

    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues

    October 7, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Thank you. That’s the nutso f(r)action.

  68. 68.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 7, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    @raven: I don’t care for or know much about “pop” music, and I’m not sure I’d recognize a song of hers if it was played, but from what little I’ve seen she seems like a very intelligent and focused young woman, especially when you compare her against some of her peers. Plus, she’s got a *really* nice house in Watch Hill.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @Bill Arnold: Yep and that the headline was completely deceptive.

  70. 70.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    War is coming whether we like it or not.

    Ugh. Time to start reading Niewert more regularly, I guess. Ugh.

  71. 71.

    Martin

    October 7, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    OK, lets pretend Kavanaugh’s opinions are undermined. They are still the ruling of the USSC and will be even if we can impeach and convict him. It takes 66 votes to convict.

    Anyone found lying gets referred to DOJ and that gets used as ammunition against Trump.

    And it still takes 66 votes to convict an impeached President. Meanwhile the USSC rules that Dump can’t be held accountable. 5-4 ruling with Justice Rapey McRapejustice writing the majority opinion.

    Nobody is arguing otherwise. The GOP didn’t get rid of Clinton with their impeachment hearing, but they forced everyone to distance themselves from him and that helped get GWB in the WH, as well as a number of other races. LBJ understood this:

    “Christ, we can’t get a way calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”

    “I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”

    That’s the game. That’s the point of the investigations. Undermine Kavanaugh, even if he does stay on the court. Make those rulings seem weaker from a precedence standpoint. Undermine Roberts by forcing him to defend the court with Kavanaugh there. Make Roberts deal with the ethics complaints. Make GOP senators defend keeping him on the court. Make every Republican have to respond to whether victims are to be believed. Make this moment in history last more than a moment. Carry it all the way to 2020.

    That’s what the GOP does.

  72. 72.

    Nicole

    October 7, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues:

    So given all of this, how can the average person still support an R?

    Racism. Anti-gay and misogyny, too, sure, but mostly it comes down to racism. Specifically, racism against African Americans.

    I have several Republican relatives and most of them are lovely people, except, that I’ve noticed, talk to them long enough, and the racism peeks out. Even the ones who themselves aren’t white. Even the ones married to people who aren’t white. It’s the darndest thing. They can’t contain it.

    On Friday I finally got up the gonads to break off with a person I’d been friends with for 35 years because I decided that, for all the bad stuff they’ve dealt with in their life, and there’s been plenty, I didn’t have the energy to deal with their bigotry anymore. It’s exhausting to see someone say something terrible, and then, when you call them out on it, go hide behind the Bible. They want all the pleasure of spewing out their hateful thoughts and none of the consequences of doing so. IT WASN’T ME. IT WAS THE BIBLE. Sigh. Cowardly.

  73. 73.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: For a number of years now, white supremacists have been adopting her as their little “white warrior princess”. I guess that’s gonna stop now. Looking forward to the butthurt from their environs.

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @Schlemazel: The Order of Battle for the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg:
    http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/classes/hist150b/battleorder.html

    2nd Division, 3,608, Brig. Gen. John Gibbon (w), Brig. Gen. William Harrow

    1st Brigade, 1,366

    Brig. Gen. William Harrow, Col. Francis Heath

    st MN A-K & 1st Co. MN Sharpshooters, 330, Col. William Colvill Jr. (w), Capt. Nathan S. Messick (k), Capt. Henry C. Coates

    http://gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/union-monuments/minnesota/1st-minnesota/

    The First Minnesota at Gettysburg
    The First Minnesota performed one of the most critical actions of the battle during Longstreet’s Assault of July 2nd. Sickles’ Corps was falling back in disarray and Longstreet’s men were advancing to penetrate the center of the Union line, which had been dangerously thinned to prop up other sectors. General Hancock rode up to the 1st Minnesota, the only organized Union troops at hand, pointed at the advancing Confederates, and ordered them to “Take those colors!” Their sacrificial charge against overwhelming odds halted the Confederate advance and bought time for the Union line to reform, forcing Lee into one last desperate gamble with Pickett’s Charge the next day. The survivors of the 1st Minnesota played a role in repulsing that charge as well.

    The regiment went through several commanders and suffered grievous losses during the battle. It entered the field 420 strong, of whom 32 men (Company L) were serving as skirmishers and 56 men (Company C) were detached on July 2. Fifty men were killed, 173 were wounded and 1 missing.

    Colonel William Colville led the men into action and was wounded during the July 2 charge. Captain Nathan Messick took over command only to be killed the next day during the repulse of Pickett’s Charge. He was briefly followed by Captain Wilson B. Farrell, who was also killed, and finally by Captain Henry C. Coates.

    From the front of the main monument:

    First Regiment
    Minnesota Vol’s
    1st Brigade 2nd Div 2nd Corps
    April 29 1861 – May 4 1864
    Bull Run, Balls Bluff, Berryville, Yorktown, West Point, Hanover Court House, Fair Oaks, Peach Orchard, Savage Station, White Oak Swamp, Glendale, Malvren Hill, 2nd Malvern Hill, Vienna, South Mountain, Antietam, Charlestown, Asby’s Gap, Fredericksburg, Marye’s Heights, Haymarket, Gettysburg, Auburn, Bristow Station, Mine Run and numerous skrimshes

    Erected by The State of Minnesota a.d. 1893

    From the right side:

    On the afternoon of July 2, 1863 Sickles Third Corps having advanced from this line to the Emmitsburg road eight companies of the First Minnesota regiment numbering 262 men were sent to this place to support a battery. Upon Sickles’ repulse as his men were passing here in confused retreat two Confederate brigades in pursuit were crossing the swale.To gain time to bring up the reserves and save this position General Hancock in person ordered the eight companies to charge the rapidly advancing enemy. The order was instantly repeated by Col. Wm. Colville and the charge instantly made down the slope at full speed through the concentrate fire of the two brigades breaking with the bayonet the enemy’s front line as it was crossing the small brook in the low ground. There the remnant of the eight companies nearly surrounded by the enemy held its entire force at bay for a considerable time and till it retired on the approach of the reserve the charge successfully accomplished its object. It saved the position and probably the battlefield. The loss of the eight companies in the charge was 215 killed and wounded, more than 85 percent. 47 men were still in line and no missing. In self-sacrificing desperate valor this charge has no parallel in any war. The next day the regiment participated in repelling Pickett’s charge losing 17 more men killed and wounded.

    From the smaller monument:

    1st Reg. Minnesota Vols.
    1st Brigade, 2d Div. 2d Corps.
    Erected by State of Minnesota

    On July 3d, 1863 the survivors of this regiment (see large monument 1/3 mile south of this) aided here in repelling Picketts Charge and ran hence to the aid of Webb’s Brigade taking a conspicuous part in the counter-charge which successfully ended the conflict. Losing then17 additional killed and wounded and capturing a Confederate flag. There Captains Nathan S. Messick and Wilson B. Farrel successively commanding the regiment were killed. Total killed and wounded in the battle 232 out of 330 engaged.”

    From the front of the Urn:
    First Minnesota Volunteers

    From the rear:

    The surviving members First Regiment Minnesota Infanty.
    To the memory of their late associates who
    “died on the field of honor”
    at Gettysburg July 1863.

    From the sides:

    These dead shall not have died in vain.
    “All time is the millenium of their glory.“

  75. 75.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 9:53 pm

    @raven: she wants to make sure that she can marry Karlie Kloss when they are ready to come out

  76. 76.

    Ladyraxterinok

    October 7, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues: Evangelical preachers, televangelists constantly proclaim that Trump has been chosen by god to bring the US back to him by eliminating abortion and homosexuality.

    Click on all the links at rightwingwatch.org, watch the Jim Bakker show on tv or videos on youtube. See Chris Stropp’s blog, Libby Ann’s blog love,joy,feminism at patheos.

  77. 77.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    @Bill Arnold: Fixed your formatting issues.

  78. 78.

    zhena gogolia

    October 7, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Across from the Honda dealership on Route 5?

  79. 79.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 7, 2018 at 10:01 pm

    @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues:

    So given all of this, how can the average person still support an R? I really don’t understand it. Yes yes, I know about party loyalty, identity etc. But it still boggles the mind. The fuck is wrong with these people?

    Racism and sexism. That’s really a sufficient explanation. They’re afraid that non-white people are taking over and that male supremacy is ending as well.

  80. 80.

    FelonyGovt

    October 7, 2018 at 10:01 pm

    I worked the Democratic booth at our local fair today. One woman said she was a lifelong Republican and an evangelical Christian but couldn’t take it any more any had us re-register her as a Democrat. A number of others wanted to know how they could help get rid of Dana Rohrabacher (not even our district). Plenty of women who are mad as hell and wanted the entire Dem slate to refer to on Election Day. So kind of encouraging.

  81. 81.

    Kelly

    October 7, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I always thought you were astute but an astute from Norman Ornstein is special. Congrats!

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    October 7, 2018 at 10:02 pm

    @FelonyGovt:

    That’s cool.

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    October 7, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    @Kelly:

    I was about to tell my husband the great news that Norm Ornstein had praised Adam Silverman and then realized he has no idea who either person is.

  84. 84.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I’m a little east of that, right off I-91.

    Did go to the New Britain Museum of American Art last week. They have quite a collection!

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 10:07 pm

    @Kelly: Norm’s a friend. When I saw his tweet about MBS earlier, I emailed him my post from last year. I was not expecting him to tweet it out.

    He’s very good people!

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 10:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: That’s okay, I’m sure I can speak for Norm on this that neither of us know who your husband is either.

  87. 87.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    October 7, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    @Nicole: I agree, and it turns up in the most curious contexts. I met an otherwise reasonable (albeit not terribly bright) guy who appeared to be of Malaysian ancestry and who told me not only that he was Republican who supported Trump, but that Obama was secretly a a Muslim.

    I found out later through mutual acquaintances that this guy’s family came from a colonial “mixed race” community of people who considered themselves Portuguese (of course, after 400 years of marrying locals they didn’t look very Portuguese) who’d leveraged their Portuguese heritage under colonial British rule to get more privileges than the (other) locals.

    Even though this attitude could not possibly still be helping him here in America, he was Republican because he was still clinging to a caste system under which he was “white.”

  88. 88.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    @FelonyGovt:

    One woman said she was a lifelong Republican and an evangelical Christian but couldn’t take it any more any had us re-register her as a Democrat.

    I have a “friend” like that. She’s angry about Rapey-K, and thinks the GrOPers went off the rails *two years ago*. But she’s still a homophobe (though she thinks she’s very “tolerant”) and it’s clear she’s an economic conservative for sure. She goes to an evangelical church where gay people can worship, but they can’t be pastors. Gosh, how “white” of them.

    I fully expect that if we survive this moment, she’ll go back to being a GrOPer voter. Still, better to have her vote now, than to not have it.

  89. 89.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 7, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, that’s only natural, seeing as he’s been dead for 166 years.

  90. 90.

    Ladyraxterinok

    October 7, 2018 at 10:13 pm

    @Ruckus: AND they would something else to attack. In today’s GOP all democrats are super evil villains and HRC is the worst. Why the worst? Because she’s an intelligent woman with power. QED. Like the Evangelical leaders have been proclaiming for more than 2 yrs, she is the modern embodiment of Jezebel, the woman who worked to separate the Jews from Yahweh.

  91. 91.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I feel as if I’ve missed an in joke somewhere along the way.

  92. 92.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 10:17 pm

    @Chacal Charles Calthrop: i wish people like this would try to join a country club and learn a very quick lesson on who is and who is not white.

  93. 93.

    TS (the original)

    October 7, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    @tobie:

    if I recall, some FBI officials complained of being asked to cover up the crime

    Doesn’t seem to have bothered them recently. They do it well

  94. 94.

    Dan B

    October 7, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    I’m of the opinion that it may take a long time to roll back the damage to democracy that Kavanaugh and Trump are doing..

    The Powell Memorandum in 1971 set the current right wing ascendancy in motion. It created what we would now call intersectional, except it united the business right with the social and religious right, among others. It’s taken decades to build the ideological and mass communication infrastructure that we have today. I believe the coup de gras csme with the demise of the Fairness Doctrine. This allowed the rise of far right media like FOX News. Citizens United was like frosting on the cake. Millions of Americans had already been seduced by FOX and others constant and sophisticated fear mongering.

    The left has not put resources into institutions and media. There is still discord when one identity group gains some influence. Like it or not The Federalist Society encourages open debate among its factions. It exercises power in its numbers. Even though most attorneys have a liberal outlook they don’t hold the influence they should. Majority views are not as visoble or influential as are the views of a small minority of the far right.

    We’ll need a robust discussion of how to build the foundations of robust institutions that reflect the majority of Americans. It won’t be pretty.

  95. 95.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 7, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: “Zhena gogolia” means Gogol’s wife (which used to be her nym until apostrophes were banned.) Nikolai Gogol died in 1852.

    They seem so lame when you have to explain them.

  96. 96.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 10:21 pm

    @Dan B: as has been noted here before, the federalist society guys were the biggest assholes in law school, and law school is full of assholes.

  97. 97.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 7, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: remember that we are Democrats here so we aren’t up to speed on all things Russian!

  98. 98.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 10:23 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Now I’m tracking.

  99. 99.

    Karen

    October 7, 2018 at 10:24 pm

    @Schlemazel:
    We need to vote and if we regain power we use it. We don’t have to be nasty and vicious as they are. But we must be ruthless. Bipartisanship was a nice dream. It doesn’t work anymore. Dems should always think of how anything they do can to benefit Democrats. We have to claw at achieving normalcy. We have to out think the Rethuglicans.

  100. 100.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 10:26 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Sometimes she’s slightly less awful.

    You’ll have to get back to me when that actually happens. I’ve missed that part of her performances.

    For what it’s worth: I don’t consider her “pretending to be a moderate until she sadly, regretfully, but after careful deliberation, decides she has to vote the way Turtle wants” routine to be any amount of “less awful.”

  101. 101.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 10:29 pm

    @Kelly:

    I always thought you were astute

    Hell, Adam’s at least two stutes, maybe even three.

  102. 102.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    @Karen:

    We don’t have to be nasty and vicious as they are.

    Maybe not, but that takes all the fun out of it, don’t it?

  103. 103.

    RepubAnon

    October 7, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    @randy khan: I’d say we need to apply the McConnell rules for a specified length of time – say, 2-4 years. During that period, we’d need to get anti-gerrymandering laws enacted and other strong voting rights protections in place. (Might need constitutional amendments for that, alas.) A few years with Republicans as the minority under the McConnell rules, and we could talk about returning to reasonable government.

    The problem, of course, is that they’d claim they were being victimized.

  104. 104.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before, but where’d you pick up Russian? Family? Govt training? School?

  105. 105.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 10:36 pm

    @RepubAnon:

    apply the McConnell rules

    I really like that formulation! And of course agree with the idea!

  106. 106.

    ellie

    October 7, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: They make such a cute couple! I hope it happens.

  107. 107.

    Bill Arnold

    October 7, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    @Karen:
    What do you think of this linked in a thread earlier today by Shakti (here):
    A Former Obama Operative Built a New Anti-Republican Attack Machine – John Burton hopes an army of dirt diggers can deliver an October surprise for Democrats.

    Meanwhile, Rohrabacher.ru will feature Citizen Strong’s trove of materials on the Putin-friendly California congressman. And, if the Russian government shuts it down, ComradeRohrabacher.com will replace it.

    And lots more. (I will assume (as a congenital optimist) that that cat was let out of the bag and paraded around for tactical reasons.)

  108. 108.

    SFAW

    October 7, 2018 at 10:45 pm

    @RepubAnon:

    The problem, of course, is that they’d claim they were being victimized.

    Many years ago, a formerly-local political writer named Mark Jurkowitz provided an analogy (or perhaps a parable) regarding Affirmative Action:

    Picture a 15-round boxing match. For the Rounds 1 to 14, the Defending Champion (whites) fights with both arms free, while the Challenger (blacks) fights with his dominant arm tied behind his back. The Challenger gets pounded mercilessly for 14 rounds. In Round 15, the situations are reversed, and within a few moments, the “one-armed” Champion cries “No fair!!!!”

    The analogy is imperfect, because I don’t perceive blacks using AA to do anything more than gain fair treatment — not pound whites into submission. (Caveat lector: I’m pretty white myself.) But outside of that, the idea that the ones trying to beat the Challenger into submission are a bunch of WATB professional victims is pretty much spot -on

    So, as efgoldman says:

    Fuckem

  109. 109.

    Chetan Murthy

    October 7, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: wait, wut? (1) I’ve listened to, like, -one- Taylor Swift song ever. Only PMJ covers. (2) My niece is gaga over her. Ga. Ga. (30 if it turns out she’s a lesbian (or bi), the white supremacists’ heads will *EXPLODE*.

    However she loves, I hope she gets good things from it. But wowsers, those New Model Nazis are gonna pitch a shit-fit.

  110. 110.

    MoxieM

    October 7, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Dinesh D’Souza on the White courtesy phone.

    I do believe D’Souza is a name of Portuguese origin, yes?

  111. 111.

    JGabriel

    October 7, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    Adam L Silverman: Thank you for the detailed clarification, Adam. I did think there was a server that got accidentally wiped before everything was pulled from it and had to be reconstructed, but, if I understand what you’re saying correctly, everything was preserved through multiple iterations anyway.

    Which make the conspiracy theory even more ridiculous.

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    @JGabriel: You’re welcome. As I stated earlier, these folks are bug fuck nuts!

  113. 113.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 7, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    @MoxieM: It is.

  114. 114.

    ema

    October 7, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    “NO FOUL PLAY WHATSOEVER,” Товарищ!

  115. 115.

    Bill Arnold

    October 7, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    From the OP,

    He also had one phone number that he used for sensitive matters and a commercially available encrypted email account. Hard drives that Mr. Smith’s estate turned over to federal investigators were also encrypted, according to people familiar with the matter.

    If an 81 year old right-wing activist can attempt comsec and computer security and perhaps even partially succeed, there is no excuse for left wing activists. Particularly as it may get ugly soon. Attempting to stay off government radars (not necessarily anonymous) for activities that a government might disapprove of is the first and probably most important line of defense. Once state-level resources are brought to bear, most security measures (not all) can be broken remotely, and failing that, an evil maid can be deployed if physical location is known, and etc. (“rubber hose crypto analysis”)
    Fun: Hooligan Tradecraft: Advanced Level

  116. 116.

    J R in WV

    October 8, 2018 at 12:08 am

    We need to jail everyone complicit in the Russian attempt to take over our nation.

    Everyone.

    Florence, CO, The super-max for drug lords, terrorists, and Russo-Republicans! A good friend was an ER doc in Colorado, and they received prisoners in their ER in chains, guarded by federal corrections agents in body armor with machine guns.

    Actually, back before my dad died, he spent time in a hospital in Beckley with pneumonia. I spent a lot of time with him, and one evening when I got off the elevator, there were two armored up agents standing on either side of the room next to his, with assault rifles (aka machine guns) guarding a prisoner in the hospital.

    Of course, walls in hospitals aren’t any stronger than commercial walls, so totally penetrable by NATO rounds. Fortunately he was discharged a couple of days later and I was able to leave for Houston TX with him, where he was being treated at the M D Anderson Cancer Center for his rare form of leukemia. But armed federal agents in the hospital hall took me aback a little. Needless to say.

  117. 117.

    Sister Golden Bear

    October 8, 2018 at 12:36 am

    @Matt McIrvin: With a healthy seasoning of homophobia and transphobia.

  118. 118.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2018 at 1:50 am

    @Chacal Charles Calthrop:
    Yes, there is such an ethnic community here in Malaysia: descendants of the whites who ran Portuguese Malaccca. Their ancestors married local women because there weren’t enough white ones around from Portugal. They’ve held on to Catholicism and still speak some 16th century Portuguese. There is in Malaysia a system of affirmative-action privileges for indigenous ethnicities (not all of which are Malay and Muslim), and the community is treated as indigenous under this system. Your Portuguese-Malaysian acquaintance sounds like he migrated to America to be among his fellow white people,

  119. 119.

    VOR

    October 8, 2018 at 10:46 am

    @Adam L Silverman: The First Minnesota captured the flag of the 28th Virginia Infantry at Gettysburg. The Minnesota Historical Society has possession. Virginia officials have asked for the return of the flag and the consistent response of Minnesota has been: suck it, Virginia.

    “We declined that invitation. … It was taken in a battle with the cost of the blood of all these Minnesotans. It would be a sacrilege to return it to them. It’s something that was earned through the incredible courage and valor of the men who gave their lives and risked their lives to obtain it,” “As far as I’m concerned it is a closed subject.” Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton (D)

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